Miles Trial Day 9 - Court transcript and translation

Original Court Transcript(原始庭审记录)

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK

------------------------------x

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

v. 23 Cr. 118 (AT)

MILES GUO,

Defendant. Trial

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New York, N.Y.

June 4, 2024

9:00 a.m.

Before:

HON. ANALISA TORRES,

District Judge

-and a Jury-

APPEARANCES

DAMIAN WILLIAMS

United States Attorney for the

Southern District of New York

BY: MICAH F. FERGENSON

RYAN B. FINKEL

JUSTIN HORTON

JULIANA N. MURRAY

Assistant United States Attorneys

SABRINA P. SHROFF

Attorney for Defendant

PRYOR CASHMAN LLP

Attorneys for Defendant

BY: SIDHARDHA KAMARAJU

MATTHEW BARKAN

ALSTON & BIRD LLP

Attorneys for Defendant

BY: E. SCOTT SCHIRICK

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ALSO PRESENT:

Isabel Loftus, Paralegal Specialist, USAO

Michael Gartland, Paralegal Specialist, USAO

Geoffrey Mearns, Paralegal Specialist, USAO

Robert Stout, Special Agent, FBI

Ruben Montilla, Defense Paralegal

Tuo Huang, Interpreter (Mandarin)

Shi Feng, Interpreter (Mandarin)

Yu Mark Tang, Interpreter (Mandarin)

Sarah Chiang, Interpreter (Mandarin)

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(Trial resumed; jury not present)

THE COURT: Good morning.

Please make your appearances.

MR. FERGENSON: Micah Fergenson, Ryan Finkel, Juliana

Murray, for the government. Justin Horton should be joining us

shortly, your Honor.

MR. SCHIRICK: Good morning, your Honor.

Scott Schirick, Sabrina Shroff, Sid Kamaraju, for

Mr. Guo, together at counsel table with Mr. Guo.

THE COURT: Please be seated.

Have you reached an agreement with regard to the

portions of the materials that the defense seeks to admit?

MR. SCHIRICK: Sure. I'm happy to address that, your

Honor.

I think we've decided to just move forward with

government exhibits that the government itself has already put

into evidence at this time.

THE COURT: Okay.

Are there any other issues you'd like to raise?

MR. FINKEL: Not so much an issue, your Honor, just

more of a housekeeping thing to alert the Court.

After Mr. Medrano, the government is going to call a

victim. That victim is going to introduce -- well, that victim

is going to testify about three recordings, one video and two

audio recordings. The video, the parties are still discussing

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a stipulation to the translation of it, it's a

Mandarin-language video. And we're hopeful we'll reach an

agreement on that.

What we propose to do is we're going to offer that

exhibit. The witness, we believe, will be able to authenticate

it; it's Mr. Guo speaking, so it's admissible. We'll play it

for the jury and just note that it will be translated at a

later time. If we can't reach a stipulation on it, we'll have

an expert testify as to its translation.

With respect to the two audio recordings, the witness

is just going to authenticate them; we are not seeking to admit

them at this time. They are audio recordings of Mr. Guo in

Discord chats regarding what we allege is the scheme. We're

just going to seek to authenticate them.

We would ask that to the extent the defense has an

authentication objection, that they raise it at this time since

this is the witness who can authenticate them; but we will

admit them later once we have a translation for them.

MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, I think we have a couple of

issues or questions with what Mr. Finkel just proposed.

One is we're not aware of what the foundation is for

the video exhibit that the government intends to introduce

through this witness, so that's one.

Second issue is, without a translation, I'm not sure

how we're supposed to cross-examine the witness with respect to

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the video. So the order of operation the government proposes I

think is just not one that is sort of workable as a practical

matter. You know, we'll take up any issues we have with

respect to authentication of the audio files which, you know,

we just received last night.

So this is all very late-breaking. The defense is

still reviewing what the government sent, you know, late last

night. So we will return with any issues we have on the

authentication there.

MR. FINKEL: Just briefly, your Honor. This video in

particular we got this weekend; we got it translated Monday.

Once we got the translation, we sent it to the defense. So

they have a translation and they're free -- it's a two-minute

video. They are free to cross-examine the witness using that

translation.

But, in any event, it's just Mr. Guo's statements;

it's not statements of the witness. So I don't really know

what the witness could say about what Mr. Guo said, other than

her interpretation of it. And they are free to cross-examine

her on the basis of our translation, which, to be clear, if

they agree with it — and they don't have to, we understand that

— we would be fine proceeding with that translation. But this

is the witness who could put that video in, so that's sort of

where we are.

THE COURT: But I hear them asking about

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authentication of the video also; am I correct?

MR. FINKEL: So with respect to authentication, we

believe this witness will be able to authenticate it. She, for

example, saw it on Mr. Guo's YouTube page. It's his YouTube

account, Mr. Guo's YouTube account. There's an image, screen

grab of that video on YouTube. She will be able to discuss, we

believe, that that's the subscriber name for Mr. Guo, she

recognizes that video, she saw it around the time it was

posted, which I understand is in 2019.

And it's a video in which -- just to explain to the

Court, it's a video in which Mr. Guo says that he will donate

$100 million to the Rule of Law Foundation and Rule of Law

Society. And that was material, we submit, to that particular

victim and other victims.

THE COURT: Does the defense challenge the translation

of the video?

MR. SCHIRICK: Well, your Honor, we just received the

government's translation last night. We haven't had an

opportunity to evaluate it. And, you know, so that's number

one.

THE COURT: All right.

So you're saying you need more time.

MR. SCHIRICK: Correct. That's right, your Honor.

And if I can just raise two other points with respect

to the video.

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One is it appears to us — and again, we're still

looking into this — that the video the government intends to

offer is a clip of a much longer video that was posted. And

so, again, it's the same issue that we had yesterday, you know,

having an opportunity to review the full video for completeness

purposes, for context. This is not something that we've had an

opportunity to do, even if we were to accept the government's

translation.

And then the third point, your Honor, again, just to

return to the sort of practicalities. How we are supposed

to -- let me back up.

Our understanding is that the witness that Mr. Finkel

is referring to is going to testify in Mandarin through a

translator later this morning. So how we are supposed to

cross-examine a witness who is testifying in Mandarin, where we

don't have an agreed-upon stipulation as to the translation of

that, I'm just not sure how that's working.

THE COURT: Are you talking about the interpretation

of the testimony?

MR. SCHIRICK: No, your Honor, the video itself, the

video itself.

THE COURT: All right.

So, first of all, do you have the entire video?

MR. FINKEL: No, and we're not seeking to offer the

entire video.

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THE COURT: But that wasn't my question.

MR. FINKEL: Do I have the entire video?

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. FINKEL: I don't believe I do, but I believe it's

on the YouTube page. I'm not certain, and I don't want to

misrepresent something. To the extent we do — maybe we do —

we'll provide it. In either event, I believe we can point them

to it on the YouTube page.

And just to be clear, your Honor, the government is

happy to allow the defense additional time to consider the

translation. But this witness is the witness who will speak --

will authenticate that video. And separate and apart from that

video, she will testify that Mr. Guo said in a video that he

would donate $100 million. So we think that can come in.

With respect to timeliness on rule of completeness

issues, we won't object on timeliness — we may object on other

grounds. But that's fine. We provided this translation as

soon as we could, but we understand it will take them some

time. That's no problem.

THE COURT: So if the witness appears today and they

have not resolved their questions about the translation of the

video and the audio recordings, I assume you'll hold the

witness over until tomorrow; is that correct?

MR. FINKEL: So, your Honor, this witness is traveling

from another state. She's a victim. We can certainly look to

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do that.

What I think though, your Honor, and what I would

respectfully propose is that she's going to testify as to her

understanding, which they can cross her on vis-à-vis the

translation that we've provided.

With respect to the video itself, the video itself

sort of speaks for itself. And the only issue, I think, would

be 106 -- 105, excuse me, rule of completeness issues, which if

they want to seek to offer from the longer video on his YouTube

page, we can deal with that down the road. We're not going to

object on timeliness.

THE COURT: So if the witness is on the stand, do you

plan to introduce the video?

MR. FINKEL: The video from the Rule of Law, yes. The

other two audio recordings we're not going to introduce, we're

just going to authenticate. And we can save the admission down

the road. Those we don't have a translation to, and so we

think that's a different category.

THE COURT: So is it that she would be looking at the

video, there would be no translation, it would just be Mr. Guo

speaking in Mandarin, and then you would ask her, What do you

understand him to be saying?

MR. FINKEL: I think we would do it in reverse, in

light of this issue; which is to say she would authenticate

this -- she would -- Victim, did there come a time, if ever,

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that Mr. Guo stated, you know, that he would donate 100

million, in a less leading fashion.

Yes.

How did you learn about that?

I watched a YouTube video about it.

And what is your understanding of what he said?

She'll testify.

Then we'll introduce, you know, Can you authenticate

this video clip?

Yes.

What is it?

That's the video where he said it.

Government offers. We would submit that's a proper

foundation and it's relevant and admissible as a defendant

statement. We could play it. And we'll just tell the jury —

and we'd ask your Honor to just tell the jury that a

translation will be made available later on in the trial.

If the parties are unable to stipulate to one, we will

put an expert on the stand to testify as to the translation.

Either way, there will be a translation. So I think that's how

we would propose handling that video.

The audio recordings we don't have a translation to.

She'll testify about what she recalls of the event and will

authenticate the recordings. But we're not going to admit them

at this time.

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MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, just one last point.

Even what Mr. Finkel proposes here doesn't solve the

fundamental issue, which is that we still have no ability this

morning, as we are here in court, to cross-examine the witness

with respect to the video or any aspects of the video because

we don't have a translation.

MR. FINKEL: They do have a translation. We provided

the translation right after we got it on Monday afternoon, I

think about 5 o'clock. I think we got it in the trial day. As

soon as the trial day was done, I sent it over. It's a

two-minute clip; the translation, I believe, is one page, maybe

one page and a half. And they have had access to translators.

MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, I believe we received this

at about -- my recollection is it was sometime around midnight

last night. You guys can correct me if I've got it wrong,

there are a lot of emails flying around.

MR. FINKEL: That's incorrect.

It was after the trial day; I don't remember the exact

time. It might have been 6 o'clock or so, I'm not certain, but

it wasn't midnight.

THE COURT: All right.

Would you check your emails, please.

MR. FINKEL: Sure.

MR. SCHIRICK: Again, your Honor, with respect to the

clipping issue, unless this witness is going to testify that

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she was responsible for clipping the portions that the

government seeks to introduce, there's still a missing link

there as to how the government gets from the video that they

say was posted on YouTube to the clip, again, none of which

we've had an opportunity to evaluate.

MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, that's not correct.

She needs to lay an authentication foundation. And if

the witness said -- and all that needs to happen is a witness

says something is what it purports to be. And if the witness

says that's a video or a clip of a video that she saw on

Mr. Guo's YouTube page — and your Honor can look at the video,

which is Mr. Guo speaking, which is part of the analysis

whether it passes authenticity thresholds — it's authentic, at

least for the jury to consider its weight. If they want to

attack the clipping aspect, they're free to do so, but that

would go to its weight, not its admissibility.

So, your Honor, this video should come in if they want

to cross her on her understanding of what it is. They are free

to do so. They have her 3500 in which she explains what it is.

That isn't a surprise and they have the translation of the

clip.

THE COURT: So do you have the email?

MR. FINKEL: Okay. So, your Honor, we sent a draft

translation yesterday at 11:57 a.m. We sent the certified

marked translation — which might have cosmetic differences — at

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5:30 p.m. yesterday.

THE COURT: All right. So that is an adequate amount

of time for you to review the translation.

MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, I think we -- respectfully,

with the volume of emails and updates that are coming from the

government, both during the trial day and after the trial day,

I'm not sure I agree that that's adequate time to have an

outside translation service check the government's translation

and enough time for us to evaluate it, when we just received

the video for the first time in the middle of the trial day

yesterday.

THE COURT: All right. So you must be nimble as a

litigator and be able to evaluate this material swiftly.

What they have proposed, the length of time that you

have had to review it, it's not an unreasonable amount of time.

I am always one who believes that these items should be turned

over as soon as possible so that the defense has the

opportunity to evaluate it. And I think in this case you've

had an appropriate length of time.

MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, actually we don't have access

to an interpreter that way in terms of documents or

translations. The interpreters who are translating for the

Court are not allowed to translate documents; we've checked

that before. And we have very limited access beyond that

point.

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Also, as we've repeatedly told the government, the way

they are sending emails, they do not reach -- I'm sorry — they

do not reach Mr. Schirick. Whatever email address they are

sending it to — and I believe I noted this to the government

even yesterday — he does not get the emails.

So I think there was a lapse between the time they

sent the email to us and the emails from Mr. Schirick which

they know are bouncing back. So I believe I'm the one who

emailed back and I said you have to include him on that email,

but I don't know on what chain that was.

But I can tell the Court that we do not have this easy

access to interpreters that the government is talking about.

So I do want -- I wanted to correct that, your Honor.

And I think that I reached out to the court

interpreters, not yesterday, but a few days ago to see if they

could translate some documents for us. They checked with the

interpreters' office and were told they cannot.

So we are struggling with trying to put people in

place to do the translations. And even if it came in at 5:30,

we had an influx of at least seven other documents at 1 a.m. —

I think it was 1 a.m. And we had government exhibits at 1

a.m.; we had 3500 material at 1 a.m., all of which required

USAfx download. I know the time because I did the download.

So I ask the Court most respectfully to allow us at

least a break, because we're not in a position to have done the

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work that the Court thinks we should have been able to do. And

we will try to do better, of course; we will try and see if we

can line somebody up. I've already reached out. But we didn't

have that access yesterday.

THE COURT: So you are retained; correct?

MS. SHROFF: Yes, your Honor.

We are retained, but it's not -- it's not as wide as

the Sargasso Sea. We have people who are trying to help us the

most they can. And I just want to make sure that the

government -- I apologize — the Court is aware of the traffic

that's coming in just on translations. I'm not talking about

3500 material from Mr. Weber that is being produced to us in

court or an English-speaking witness. That's not what I'm

talking about. I can cope. But I cannot cope with asking

for -- I can't find an interpreter to go with me on the weekend

to a jail anymore. On the long weekend I found no one who

could go.

So we're struggling. It's not just money. People

have to agree to do -- to come in.

MR. FINKEL: Two brief points, your Honor.

First, the government wants to work with the defense

and, candidly, has been working with the defense quite well on

translation issues and stipulations and things like that. And

we hope to continue to do that. That's first.

Second, I'm not going to get into the nuances of who's

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getting emailed or not --

THE COURT: But that is important.

MR. FINKEL: So then I'm happy to.

We did email the translation to Mr. Schirick; he's on

the email. We were told to actually send all emails to a

LISTSERV that Pryor Cashman has set up called The Guo Team. We

understand that's The Guo Team. So we have been including them

on such distributions; and included them on the distribution, I

believe, right, at 5:57. I'll confirm that.

What I can also tell the Court is after I submitted --

I sent the email at 5:57, which was the marked certified

version, not just the draft. I had a back-and-forth with

Mr. Barkan. Mr. Barkan was checking that translation — it's

not very long — with an automated translation service. I

didn't hear from him any substantive objections to it.

All that being said, your Honor, the government has no

objection to giving the defense an appropriate amount of time

this morning to listen to that video more quickly -- more

thoroughly. They obviously have their client here who spoke in

the video and can explain them things. And that's no problem.

So that's sort of where we come out on that.

Sort of at bottom is this witness is the witness who

can authenticate this video. It was material to her. She's

going to tell the jury about that. And so we believe it's an

appropriate exhibit. To the extent they want to introduce

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other portions of the longer recording, we're not going to

object on timeliness grounds. We might object on other

grounds, but we can deal with that later.

THE COURT: What about the claims that emails to

Mr. Schirick are bouncing back?

MR. FINKEL: So, your Honor, this email was sent

directly to Mr. Schirick. I don't believe it bounced back.

It's right there. It's his email address at Alston. There

are, I think, 12 or so different attorneys who are working on

the defense team, maybe less, maybe some are paralegals, I

don't know, but there's a large group. We were told to email

The Guo Team at Pryor Cashman, which encompassed everyone.

We've been endeavoring to do that. Sometimes there are email

chains with various attorneys.

THE COURT: So the question then, Mr. Schirick, is did

you receive the email at the time that they claim that you

received it?

MR. SCHIRICK: Honestly, your Honor, I'd have to look.

I've been trying to do so on my phone, but the volume of emails

that we receive from the government is making it difficult for

me to identify that.

THE COURT: Okay. Please take a look.

MR. SCHIRICK: Sure.

MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I also just want to say that

the government has been aware that The Guo Team email does not

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work for either Mr. Schirick or for me; we are not part of the

Pryor Cashman law firm. The government has repeatedly noted

that those emails bounce back.

In response, I literally sent an email saying:

Mr. Schirick needs to be added on separately. And I added the

Alston email address to that email chain. The defense added it

on. I'm not talking just about this email, I'm just talking

generally. That I repeatedly -- well, not repeatedly. I told

the government that The Guo Team email does not work for people

who are outside of Pryor Cashman.

Put that aside.

I am telling the Court that we did not have access to

any interpreter yesterday evening that would have been able to

translate for us. That's what I'm saying. And if the

government thinks -- also, I'm not really sure --

THE COURT: Ms. Shroff, you should be putting a

translator on retainer so that they are available continuously

to you.

MS. SHROFF: And they are. And they are translating

other documents that are repeatedly flowing in. I do not

believe the -- I really didn't focus on it yesterday, the 5:27

email, and if somebody could check. But I don't think that

email even says that we are planning to introduce this

tomorrow, so please flag this for immediate attention. I don't

think anybody paid any mind to it because of the traffic, I

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have to say honestly.

I don't think the email said anything about the

exhibit being used tomorrow. And we have more than one person

helping us translate. People don't want to work around the

clock. They are not interested. We have a limited pool.

We've tried to hire a lawyer who speaks the language, and even

that person only works limited hours.

And I'm happy ex parte, your Honor, to share the email

back-and-forth as to what other things we're having those

people translate.

THE COURT: Mr. Schirick.

MR. SCHIRICK: Yes. Thank you, your Honor.

THE COURT: Did you get the email?

MR. SCHIRICK: I did, in fact, receive the email.

I will just add that it was not clear at least to me

from context, when that email came across from Mr. Finkel, that

the government's plan was to use that exhibit with this witness

tomorrow.

THE COURT: All right. So now the government knows

the difficulties that you've been having with translation. And

the government, going forward, will point out that an

attachment needs to be translated because you intend to use

that during witness testimony.

MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, yes.

And indeed, the 11:57 email was the proposed

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translation and certificate. The 5:57 email, which was the

marked version, said: Please let us know if you'll stipulate

to the accuracy of the attached translation or if you have any

corrections to it. We may offer this video tomorrow, meaning

today.

THE COURT: So I just don't think you can ask more of

the prosecution. They've alerted you to the fact that they

intend to introduce certain evidence. They have alerted you to

the fact that you need to check the translation to see if you

will agree and stipulate to the translation.

What more do you want?

MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, it's simply Ms. Shroff's

point: We're focusing narrowly on this one particular email

and this one particular document. But we can represent to the

Court, and I don't think there would be any dispute between the

parties that the volume of productions not only of 3500, but of

additional exhibits, in addition to witness orders changing

pretty much every day, you know, from the Saturday email that

comes out where the government first tells the defense who it

plans to call, you know, I think last week that list changed

virtually on a daily basis.

So just to give the Court some context, you know, it's

not just about this single particular email — obviously that's

why we're discussing this now, it's ripe, the witness is going

to testify today. But the defense is dealing with a lot of --

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a tremendous influx of information that's coming from the

prosecution, and changes both in order and changes in exhibits.

And then when you throw a translation issue on top of that,

which is often the case, it makes it very difficult to deal

with when it's all happening at the last minute. And we just

want to give the Court that context.

THE COURT: Well, I think that most attorneys in

Manhattan would agree that you have some of the finest defense

lawyers on your team. Perhaps you need to augment and add

someone in order to cope with the volume of information that is

coming your way.

MS. SHROFF: We have tried to find someone who speaks

the language, your Honor. Again, I'm happy to come to sidebar

ex parte and show the Court. But I can assure you that we have

no interest in not checking a translation if we have the

manpower. Again, I did not look at the 5:30 email

substantively at all. That might have been my error.

But I can assure you we have more than one person with

dual language skills helping us, and I'm not sure I can find

more, but I will endeavor to try. I had one other translator

that I was using that was traveling up until now, hopefully she

will be back and into circulation, and we will try to do

better.

But for today's witness, we are where we are, and I'm

not really sure how else I can fix the problem.

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THE COURT: So the question is now when is it that

you'll review the translation with regard to the video?

Mr. Finkel, are you proposing that they do that before

you call your witness?

MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, we have no objection to

either. If they want to take the time now, it's certainly your

Honor's prerogative. If they want to take the time now, the

government has no objection to that, and that's fine. We can

start a little bit delayed today, that's fine. If they want to

wait until after Mr. Medrano, for example, and then review,

that's fine too. We can give the jury a break after

Mr. Medrano. The government is fine either way.

THE COURT: Mr. Schirick, did you want to say

anything?

MR. SCHIRICK: The defense would prefer, all things

being the same, to take a break after Mr. Medrano. We're

hopeful of getting a translation a bit later this morning,

perhaps around noon.

THE COURT: Very well.

Is there anything before I have the jurors come in?

MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, just one very small matter.

Would it be possible for people to be seated in the

third row on the side? I'm hold that there are people who want

a seat and there is no more overflow room. So I was asked to

request of the Court, and I'm just asking, that's all.

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O64VGUO1

THE COURT: I'll consider that, but I don't have an

answer for you right now.

MS. SHROFF: Yes, your Honor.

THE COURT: Would you have the jurors come in.

MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may I step out? I am just

going to try and find the interpreter.

THE COURT: I am having the jurors come in.

MS. SHROFF: Okay.

(Continued on next page)

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(Jury present)

THE COURT: Would you have the witness resume the

stand, please.

Please be seated.

Good morning, jurors.

THE JURY: Good morning.

THE COURT: Good morning.

THE WITNESS: Good morning.

THE COURT: Remember that you're under oath.

Please resume cross-examination.

MR. SCHIRICK: Thank you, your Honor.

SHAMEL MEDRANO,

called as a witness by the Government,

having been previously duly sworn, testified as follows:

CROSS-EXAMINATION (continued)

BY MR. SCHIRICK:

Q. Mr. Medrano, excuse me, thank you for coming back --

A. Of course.

Q. -- this morning.

I believe yesterday when the trial day ended, we were

watching a video. I'm going to just take you back slightly to

a different video, and then we will resume with that video just

so that everyone understands from context, including, most

importantly, Mr. Medrano.

MR. SCHIRICK: So if we can please pull up Government

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Exhibit C-63-T.

Q. Mr. Medrano --

MR. SCHIRICK: I'm sorry. I apologize.

Let's first pull up Government Exhibit Z-9 at page 6.

Apologies.

Q. Okay. Mr. Medrano, you recall yesterday testifying about

the summary chart that's in evidence as Government Exhibit Z-9,

right?

A. Correct.

Q. Do you recall testifying about this particular entry that

is dated June 2, 2020?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And you see here that the source of the selected content is

Government Exhibit C-63?

A. Yes.

MR. SCHIRICK: Okay. And now if we could please go to

Government Exhibit 63-T.

MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, that's not in evidence.

THE COURT: I don't have that in my book here.

Would you refer to the page.

MR. SCHIRICK: 63-T is not in the book, your Honor.

And if I may just have a moment with Mr. Fergenson.

THE COURT: Okay.

(Counsel conferred)

MR. FERGENSON: I'm sorry, your Honor. It wasn't

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offered by me, but it was offered earlier by Ms. Murray. It's

my mistake. It is in evidence.

THE COURT: Is it in the book?

MR. SCHIRICK: No, your Honor. I believe the Court

and the jury has only the summary chart, which is Z-9. This is

the underlying document, which is a transcript which we will

display for everyone.

THE COURT: Thank you. Go ahead.

MR. SCHIRICK: So now if we can please pull up 63-T.

Thank you.

BY MR. SCHIRICK:

Q. Again, Mr. Medrano, this is one of the source documents for

that entry in the chart that we were just looking at a moment

ago; correct?

A. Correct.

MR. SCHIRICK: Okay. And if we can please go to page

5 of this document.

Q. Mr. Medrano, are you familiar with something called the

NFSC?

A. I am not.

Q. Okay. If we can focus your attention on the entry in this

chart that is marked with the time mark 7:09. Do you see it at

the bottom there?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. I'm just going to read from the bottom there, and you'll

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let me know if I get this right, please.

"Now in the United States, some people who are in

collusion with the communist party, agents, spies, sent out by

the communist party, people of common interests have completely

disregarded the rules of law of the United States and are

strongly attacking all our media."

MR. SCHIRICK: I'm sorry, I think we've lost it on the

screen. If we can --

THE COURT: One moment, please.

Mr. Garcia, if you would please step over here.

Go ahead.

MR. SCHIRICK: Thank you, your Honor.

If we can please move to the next passage for what's

being displayed to the jury.

Q. "So my dear fellow fighters, it can be said that from our

entire media platform and whistleblower movement's fellow

fighters, the efforts of billions of fellow fighters have

awakened the world.

"At the same time, we are set up, and we have become

the biggest enemy of the communist party and the groups that

they fear the most. This includes the $4 billion that the

communist party has spent to stop, to halt; hackers are trying

to stop the ceremony of the declaration of our founding of the

New Federal State of China tomorrow, June 3rd at 7 p.m., new

York time, and the day after, that is, before 12 p.m. on

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June 4.

"Now, the $4 billion has seeing the first results, the

impact and the infiltration in social media — Twitter, YouTube,

Facebook and other major media, including hacking have reached

military level like never before.

"However, I believe that it will not stop our fellow

fighters from aspiring to freedom, to dignity, to have a family

that can live without fear, and to a safe, good life."

Did I read that correctly Mr. Medrano?

A. You did.

THE COURT: One moment, please.

Go ahead.

MR. SCHIRICK: Thank you, your Honor.

Q. Mr. Medrano, that excerpt that I just read was not in the

summary chart that you created; correct?

A. I don't believe so, no.

Q. Okay. Thank you.

MR. SCHIRICK: Now, if we can please go to the video

that we were watching at the end of the trial day yesterday

that includes Mr. Bannon. We won't replay the entire thing,

we'll pick up just about 15 seconds or so before we ended

yesterday for context. But for the record, this is Government

Exhibit W1005-B in evidence.

(Video played)

MR. SCHIRICK: Thank you.

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Q. Now, Mr. Medrano, if you could please turn to Government

Exhibit Z-11, which should be -- we should have a hard copy of.

A. I don't have a hard copy of that one.

MR. SCHIRICK: May I approach, your Honor?

THE COURT: You may.

Q. Mr. Medrano, the passage that we just listened to on the

video, that's not included in your summary chart, is it?

A. It is not included in the summary chart.

Q. And would you agree with me that the passage that we just

listened to and watched, in fact, comes in between the first

entry on the summary chart and the second entry on the summary

chart?

A. I don't know what time this video was played at. I mean,

if you --

Q. Okay. We're happy to play it again for context.

A. No, no, I understand. I'm saying the first passage on the

summary chart, it indicates 1:16:15; the next one is at

1:23:34. What you currently played, I'm not sure when it was,

so I wouldn't be able to say if it was played in between.

Q. Sure. And I'll represent to you that what we just watched

began at 1:23:10 and ended at 1:23:44.

A. Got it. Okay.

Q. So would you agree with me that what we just watched comes

in between the first entry on that chart and the second entry

on the chart?

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A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Mr. Bannon didn't mention in the clip that we just

watched anything about the Rule of Law fund, right?

A. In the clip that we just watched?

Q. Correct.

A. I do not recall hearing that, no.

Q. And Mr. Bannon didn't mention anything in that clip about

$100 million donation to any foundation, right?

A. I don't recall hearing that, no.

Q. And you recall yesterday --

THE COURT: Mr. Medrano, if you would speak into the

microphone.

THE WITNESS: Sorry, your Honor.

Q. And you recall yesterday that I asked you about this

watermark that is displayed on the exhibit that's on your

screen in the upper left-hand corner, "Guo Media"?

A. Correct.

Q. And you don't know whether Mr. Guo financed with his "own

money" Guo Media's activities, do you?

A. I don't know.

MR. SCHIRICK: No further questions at this time.

THE COURT: Redirect.

MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. FERGENSON:

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Q. Good morning again, Mr. Medrano.

A. Good morning.

Q. You were asked questions about statements Guo made about

the CCP, do you recall that?

A. Yes.

MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could please publish

Stip 2. Stip 2. Government Exhibit Stip 2.

Q. Mr. Medrano, do you see this says "stipulation regarding

web pages and videos"?

A. Yes.

MR. FERGENSON: If we could go to page 24, Ms. Loftus.

Q. And Mr. Medrano, do you see the second one from the top is

GXW1012 and GXW1012-V?

A. Yes.

MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government

Exhibit GXW1012 and 1012-V.

MR. SCHIRICK: Can we just have one moment, please?

MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we can just show just

the witness and counsel GXW1012-V. And we don't want to play

any sound, but maybe we can click through a couple portions of

the video so they can see. If you can click through a few --

MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, no objection; although it's

hard to tell whether this video is going to take us beyond the

scope of cross.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

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MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.

(Government's Exhibits GXW1012 and GXW1012-V received

in evidence)

MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could please publish

this video now.

(Video played)

MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, we could go to Government

Exhibit Z-9 at page 99, please. And if we could zoom on the

bottom entry there.

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. Mr. Medrano, focusing you on GXC221, what's the date of

that entry in the chart?

A. June 6, 2021.

Q. Where was it posted?

A. GTV.org.

MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, can we please play

GXC221-T.

MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, beyond the scope.

THE COURT: If you'll step up please.

(Continued on next page)

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(At sidebar)

THE COURT: What is it that you're seeking?

MR. FERGENSON: This is another music video; it's

titled "Hero," in which they discuss the CCP, your Honor. He

was asked questions about did you review statements about Miles

Guo talking about the CCP. This is responsive.

MR. SCHIRICK: Two things, your Honor:

First of all, I asked whether in the context of the

specific documents that I focused on, whether Mr. Medrano or

the government included statements about the defendant's

anti-CCP position. I didn't ask generally whether he reviewed

anything about that that goes to anti-CCP, number one. So this

is well beyond the scope.

Number two, I believe at the end of that first clip,

there wasn't a single question put to the witness about that

document. The government is merely using this as a vehicle to

play additional documents to the jury, and they have no

questions for Mr. Medrano; they didn't ask one at the end of

that, and they did the same thing yesterday, so I suspect they

are going to continue to do it again.

MR. FERGENSON: Excuse me, Ms. Shroff.

THE COURT: Let's take turns, please.

He started first. Go ahead.

MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.

Just on the last point, Mr. Medrano is a summary

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witness. I'm happy to pose a question to him, but he has no

personal knowledge of the case. But after playing the video

I'm fine doing that.

With respect to --

THE COURT: But his point was that he did not ask

generally about whether he knew about Mr. Guo's comments about

the CCP. He was referring to specific material. This is now

different from that.

MR. FERGENSON: Actually, your Honor, I believe that

the question posed initially with him was, you know, you

didn't -- there wasn't statements in this chart or you didn't

testify about statements about the CCP, right?

THE COURT: Okay. So then let's go back and take a

look. If you could go to the beginning of his cross.

(Record reviewed)

THE COURT: I just went through the cross-examination.

I don't see a reference to the CCP, or he's not asking whether

the witness knew of any material contained in the documents

referring to the CCP.

MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, it was yesterday at the

very start of his cross-examination. And obviously the scope

of redirect is not just the cross this morning, but the full

cross.

THE COURT: No.

MR. FERGENSON: The very first --

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THE COURT: No. The scope of the recross -- the scope

of the redirect goes to.

MR. FERGENSON: The cross.

THE COURT: Exactly.

MR. FERGENSON: And his first question yesterday, your

Honor, was on direct: Did the government take you through any

selected content in the chart in which Mr. Guo talks about the

CCP?

And this is in the chart, and it's about the CCP. So

we want to play it. It will take four minutes. It's in

evidence. That's it.

THE COURT: Okay. So that was at the beginning of the

cross yesterday. You agree that that's accurate?

MR. SCHIRICK: If that's what the transcript says, I

have no doubt.

MS. SHROFF: Yes, but it's about the selected videos

that he's shown. It's not about the CCP in general.

MR. FERGENSON: This is one of them.

MS. SHROFF: Please don't interrupt me now.

Your Honor, if you just take a look at the videos,

these videos are not about the CCP and Mr. Guo. The videos are

about opulence and Mr. Guo. This is why the government chose

to hold those videos until they could be played on redirect.

So the entire clip now is not even a statement by

necessarily Mr. Guo; it is an advertisement that he made and he

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is pictured in it. They are not his statements in the sense

that Mr. Guo was giving a speech or he's saying something. The

next video clip I'm pretty sure is Mr. Guo dancing or some such

thing. It's beyond the pale of what is a statement that can be

attributed to Mr. Guo. It is also cumulative, your Honor.

THE COURT: In that video, does he address the CCP?

MS. SHROFF: No.

MR. FERGENSON: Yes.

MS. SHROFF: I believe there's a song about the CCP; I

don't think he ever opens his mouth and speaks.

MR. FERGENSON: He's the singer.

MS. SHROFF: Excuse me, sir.

THE COURT: One moment, please.

MS. SHROFF: He doesn't speak. The song is in the

background.

THE COURT: Is he the singer?

MS. SHROFF: I couldn't tell. If he's --

MR. FERGENSON: Yes.

MS. SHROFF: If he's singing on an overlay, it's still

a song, it's not a statement.

THE COURT: One moment.

MS. SHROFF: In a recent case before --

THE COURT: Sorry. One moment.

So you're saying that it is his voice singing about

the CCP; is that correct?

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MR. FERGENSON: Yes. And it's in evidence already.

I'm just going to play four minutes of it.

MS. SHROFF: And under the recent --

THE COURT: If it's his singing about the CCP, these

are statements, song statements.

MS. SHROFF: Well, your Honor, there is recent

rulings, especially one by DeArcy Hall, the Honorable DeArcy

Hall in the Eastern District of New York, that rap lyrics in

songs about the content of what somebody is or is not doing are

not necessarily admissible in statements attributed to that

person.

MR. FERGENSON: This is in evidence.

MS. SHROFF: Because it is in evidence does not mean

it is properly before the jury for this particular point, sir.

For this particular point. It is not a statement from Mr. Guo,

his mouth is not making the statements; it's an overlay song.

Your next video is about him dancing.

What the government is trying to show here is his

opulence. It is very prejudicial to play it at this juncture.

And if the Court can just take a look at the videos before they

are played to the jury, maybe it would understand the argument

I'm inarticulately trying to make, which is it is both

cumulative and prejudicial to do it now.

THE COURT: Let me start by saying that I love Judge

DeArcy Hall --

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MS. SHROFF: I do, too.

THE COURT: -- and I admire her thinking. But this is

a different case, a very, very, very different case.

What does the song say in the video?

MR. FERGENSON: So it goes to their argument that he

is a legitimate dissident being oppressed by the communist

party holding these rallies. They played that clip of him at

the Rule of Law launch where he's talking about being attacked.

THE COURT: What is said in the lyrics?

MR. FERGENSON: I don't have it memorized, but he's

basically talking about how the CCP is coming after them, we're

going to fight them. That's essentially it.

THE COURT: What's the name of the song?

MR. FERGENSON: "Hero," your Honor. It's called

"Hero." And it's him dancing around with people, and it goes

to it. It's four minutes long. It's in evidence, it will be

shorter than the sidebar.

MS. SHROFF: It goes to his opulence, which is what

this video went to. He doesn't -- excuse me. The song never

once says he is being persecuted or prosecuted by the CCP. In

fact, he's just talking about the general world fighting CCP.

And I think if the government really is firm on its

argument, they should get the lyrics to the Court, because

never once does Mr. Guo say the CCP is coming after me; here I

am fighting back.

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THE COURT: So Mr. Guo holds himself --

(Indiscernible crosstalk)

THE COURT: Don't talk over me, Ms. Shroff.

MS. SHROFF: Sorry.

THE COURT: Mr. Guo holds himself out as a leader of

the anti-CCP movement. We've had witnesses who have stated

that they relied on his representations.

MS. SHROFF: True.

THE COURT: It is relevant and it comes in.

(Continued on next page)

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(In open court)

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could please publish

Government Exhibit C221-V. And if we could play the video,

please.

(Video played)

MR. FERGENSON: If we could pause it.

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. Mr. Medrano, what does it say on your screen?

A. "Hero."

MR. FERGENSON: If we could play that, please.

(Video played)

MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, we can stop there. And if

we could go back to Government Exhibit Z-9, and we'll go to

page 15.

Q. Mr. Medrano, you were asked questions on cross-examination

about the NFSC, do you recall that?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. Now, looking at this entry on the chart on page

15, what's the date of this entry?

A. June 28, 2020.

Q. Where was it posted?

A. GNews.org.

Q. And are there subtitles on this video?

A. Yes.

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Q. So before we read the subtitle, can you read the caption to

the right of the date?

A. "The NFSC, G Series and Himalaya Farms."

Q. Can you read the subtitle, please.

A. "Me, Miles Guo, will never ask for a cent from you for G

Series."

MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, could we please play

Government Exhibit C160-V.

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. Scope.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, Ms. Loftus. We'll just

play the first few seconds.

(Video played)

MR. FERGENSON: Pause it.

Q. Now, Mr. Medrano, how long is this video?

A. 25 minutes and 26 seconds.

Q. The whole video is in evidence; correct?

A. Yes.

MR. FERGENSON: All right.

Now, Ms. Loftus, let's go back to the chart.

Q. And Mr. Medrano, I'm not going to play the full video, but

could you please read the text that's in the chart underneath

GXW160-V.

And we'll go until a little bit onto page 16, but you

can start reading on page 15, please.

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A. "The NFSC, please remember in the future, that it is a

quasi-political entity. The G Series, GTV, G Fashion, G Club,

G Coin, and G Dollar have no substantial connections with the

NFSC.

"It is like an NGO. But the G Series are completely

commercial institutions, including the Himalaya Farms. The

Himalaya Farms across the world are registered as limited

companies all according to local law depending on how much you

invested. The amount you invested will determine through a

shareholder system how much power, level of management

authority and profit sharing you entitled to possess.

"To the bothers in arms who wanted to donate to the

Himalaya Farms, let me say this once again: Any Himalaya Farm

that accepted donations will all be disqualified. You can

invest, but you cannot donate. Our whistleblower movement does

not tolerate the act of asking for money.

"Me, Miles Guo, will never ask for a cent from you for

G Series. Don't confuse the investment with this donation."

Q. And you can just read -- we'll end with the next excerpt,

please, Mr. Medrano.

A. "This is completely a business operation. Do not link the

G Series under any circumstance to the NFSC. That is all

bullshit."

MR. FERGENSON: No further questions.

THE COURT: Recross.

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RECROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. SCHIRICK:

Q. Mr. Medrano, does the fact that the NFSC may be separate

from any G Series investments as you just saw in that document

make Miles Guo any less of a political dissident?

MR. FERGENSON: Objection.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. SCHIRICK: No further questions.

THE COURT: All righty. Thank you. You may step out.

THE WITNESS: Thank you, your Honor.

(Witness excused)

THE COURT: And the government may call its next

witness.

MR. HORTON: Your Honor, the government is happy to

call our next witness. We had understood the Court wished to

take a break after Mr. Medrano to address an issue.

THE COURT: That is correct. I did state that I

wanted to take a break at this time.

And so, members of the jury, remember that you're not

allowed to discuss this case amongst yourselves or with anyone

else. And don't do any research about the case and don't read

any accounts in the news media or any other source.

You may step out.

(Jury not present)

(Continued on next page)

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(Jury not present)

THE COURT: How long does the defense need?

MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, I think 15 or 20 minutes,

if that is okay with the Court?

THE COURT: All righty. We'll take 20 minutes.

MR. SCHIRICK: Thank you, Judge.

(Recess)

(Jury not present)

THE COURT: Please be seated.

A few minutes ago, when I was looking for the door for

the robing room, I mistakenly opened the door of the jury room.

When I saw that, I simply said, "Sorry about that," and turned

around. Is there anything that you would like me to do with

respect to that?

MR. FINKEL: Not from the government.

MS. SHROFF: Not from the defense, your Honor. Thank

you.

THE COURT: Please have the jurors return, and please

have the witness come in.

(Continued on next page)

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(Jury present)

THE COURT: Please be seated.

And the prosecution may call its next witness.

MR. HORTON: Your Honor, the government calls Jenny

Li.

THE COURT: You may take the stand.

MR. HORTON: And your Honor, Ms. Li will be assisted

by a Mandarin-language interpreter.

THE LAW CLERK: Please raise your right hand.

(Witness sworn)

THE COURT: Please be seated and state your name and

spell it.

THE WITNESS: (In English) Jenny Li. J-E-N-N-Y, first

name. Last name, L-I, Li.

THE COURT: Please speak into the microphone so that

everyone can hear you.

THE WITNESS: (In English) Sorry. My name is Jenny,

first name, J-E-N-N-Y, first name. The last name, L-I, Li.

THE COURT: You may inquire.

MR. HORTON: Thank you, your Honor.

JENNY LI,

called as a witness by the Government,

having been duly sworn, testified as

follows, through a Mandarin-language

interpreter:

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DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. HORTON:

Q. Good morning, Ms. Li.

A. Yes, hello.

Q. What state do you live in?

A. Nevada.

Q. Do you have any children?

A. Yes.

Q. How many children do you have?

A. One.

Q. And how old is your child?

A. 36 years old.

Q. Are you married?

A. Yes.

Q. Ms. Li, were you ever a follower of Miles Guo?

A. Yes.

Q. Are you currently a follower of Miles Guo, Ms. Li?

A. No.

Q. Ms. Li, do you see Miles Guo in the courtroom today?

A. Yes.

MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, we'll stipulate that

identification.

THE COURT: All right, then. Please continue.

Q. Ms. Li, what year was it that you first heard of Miles Guo?

A. 2017.

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Q. And where did you first see Miles Guo in 2017?

A. I met him on April 19 for the first time.

Q. And where did you see Miles Guo on April 19, 2017?

A. Voice of America.

Q. And what happened when Miles Guo was on Voice of America in

2017?

A. So he was doing a livestreaming over there and to disclose

the corruption of CCP.

Q. When you saw Miles Guo for the first time in 2017, what, if

anything, did you think about him?

A. At that time I didn't have any thought of him whatsoever.

Q. And how often, if ever, Ms. Li, did you watch Miles Guo's

videos after that first time you saw him in 2017?

A. After that, out of curiosity, I kept watching his videos.

Q. And you said you kept watching them. How often were you

watching them?

A. I almost watched all his livestreaming whenever available.

Q. And what was it about these videos of Miles Guo that made

you want to keep watching them?

A. He was disclosing the corruption of Chinese government

officials and also some men and women sexual relationships.

Q. And in these videos, Ms. Li, what, if anything, did Miles

Guo say about his money?

A. He said he didn't take any money out of China.

Q. And what, if anything, was Miles Guo wearing in these

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videos?

A. A lot of times he wearing a very nice suit, and most of the

time he wearing sunglasses.

Q. And from what location was Miles Guo broadcasting these

videos?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection, foundation.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Ms. Li, could you tell when you watched these videos where

Miles Guo was filming them?

A. From place for media.

Q. And what kind of room was Miles Guo in in these videos?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. We're talking about

multiple videos?

THE COURT: Are you asking her to describe a

particular video?

MR. HORTON: Let me try the question a different way,

your Honor.

BY MR. HORTON:

Q. Ms. Li——Ms. Li, what's the Sherry?

A. So Guo was——Miles Guo purchased the 18th floor at Sherry,

and he thought——he bought it, the 18th floor.

Q. And where did you learn that Miles Guo purchased the 18th

floor of the Sherry?

A. He often mentioned it in his own livestream.

Q. Ms. Li, did there come a time that you heard about

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something called the Rule of Law Fund?

A. Yes.

Q. And who did you first hear mention the Rule of Law Fund?

A. Miles Guo and Bannon established this Rule of Law

Foundation on November 20, 2018.

Q. And what happened in November 2018?

A. So what happened, it was Guo, Miles Guo claimed that the

executive from HNA in China, that he suddenly pass away, and

Guo Wengui claimed that he was murdered by CCP.

Q. Ms. Li, where, if ever, did you see Miles Guo and Steve

Bannon talk about the Rule of Law Fund?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection, form.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

A. YouTube.

Q. And what did you watch on YouTube?

A. Miles Guo and Bannon established this Rule of Law

Foundation.

Q. And——

THE COURT: I would like the parties and the

interpreter to step up, please.

(Continued on next page)

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(At the sidebar)

THE COURT: Can you do a simultaneous translation?

THE INTERPRETER: For who?

THE COURT: Interpreting for the witness. Instead of

waiting for her to say something and then she ends and you

interpret, can you do it simultaneously?

THE INTERPRETER: But I think for the accuracy

sometimes for the witness, it's always done consecutively. I

can try——

THE COURT: I've been doing this for 24 years and I

have had many cases with simultaneous translation. Some

interpreters don't know how to do it. And so I'm asking you,

can you do it?

THE INTERPRETER: I can do, yes.

THE COURT: Okay. That's what we'll do going forward.

THE INTERPRETER: Okay. Excuse me. Your Honor, and

also, I have to interpret the counsel's question

simultaneously?

THE COURT: Yes.

THE INTERPRETER: And I think I need to have a partner

to work with, because for the——I think I cannot do alone by

myself for long period of time, simultaneously.

THE COURT: Are you saying that you cannot do

simultaneous translation?

THE INTERPRETER: I can do it simultaneously, but I

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need someone to take turn with me.

MS. SHROFF: She needs to switch out.

THE COURT: But if you don't do the simultaneous

translation, you don't need a partner?

THE INTERPRETER: Yeah. I can do maybe two hours, but

with simultaneous mode, I need a partner.

THE COURT: Do we have another interpreter, maybe?

MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, we can check with the

interpreters——well——we can check with the interpreters. We're

apparently not allowed to use the court interpreters.

THE COURT: That's right.

MR. FINKEL: We can try to find someone. I don't know

if we can, but we'll try.

THE COURT: If you make that attempt. In the

meantime, you're going to do consecutive translation.

THE INTERPRETER: Okay.

MR. FINKEL: Thank you.

MR. HORTON: Thank you.

(Continued on next page)

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(In open court)

THE COURT: Please continue.

MR. HORTON: Thank you, your Honor. Just one moment,

please.

BY MR. HORTON:

Q. Ms. Li, you said you saw a video on YouTube with Miles Guo

and Steve Bannon talking about the Rule of Law Fund; is that

right?

A. Yes.

Q. And what, if anything, was said in this video, Ms. Li,

about how the Rule of Law Fund would be financed?

A. Miles Guo said that he would donate 100 million US dollars

into this Rule of Law Foundation.

Q. And when else, if ever, Ms. Li, did you hear Miles Guo talk

about his donations to the Rule of Law Foundation?

A. He didn't say much. He was just saying that he would try

to help people that disappeared in China.

Q. And the YouTube video you mentioned where Miles Guo talked

about donating a hundred million dollars to Rule of Law, when

did you see that, what year?

A. November 20, 2018.

Q. And other than that 2018 video, Ms. Li, when else, if ever,

did you see Miles Guo talk about donating to the Rule of Law

Foundation?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. Asked and answered.

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THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

A. He said he was going to donate 100 million US dollars.

THE COURT: If you would please move closer to the

microphone, Ms. Li, so that you can be heard.

MR. HORTON: Ms. Loftus, can you display for the

witness what's marked as Government Exhibit VI191.

Q. Ms. Li, what is this document?

A. So this is in 2019 that Guo, he show up again for the

second time. This was also on YouTube and GTV. And this

is——he was saying again that he would donate 100 million US

dollars. At the same time he would match 1 dollar to 1 dollar;

to whoever make a donation, he would do the matching.

Q. And did you watch this video, Ms. Li?

A. Yes.

Q. When did you watch it for the first time?

A. So first time was 2018. This was second time.

Q. Sorry. Ms. Li, when did you watch this video?

MR. SCHIRICK: Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

A. The second time was March 29, 2019.

Q. And where was this video clip located?

A. This was on YouTube.

MR. HORTON: Your Honor, the government offers

Government Exhibit VI191.

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. Can we have a brief

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sidebar.

THE COURT: Okay.

(At the sidebar)

THE COURT: What's the objection?

MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, I don't see how the witness

can identify this video when he hadn't even played it for her,

how she can identify it coming from a specific date. As we

discussed, it's also clear that this is a bit of a much longer

video, and there's been no foundation laid about the clip, who

made the clip, you know, when the clip was made, which calls

into question the admissibility.

THE COURT: She can testify about what she saw. It is

more proper for the clip to be displayed first so the witness

can identify it, so please do that.

(Continued on next page)

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(In open court)

MR. HORTON: Ms. Loftus, can you please pull up for

the witness what's been marked as Government Exhibit VI192.

MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, I don't know if the

intention is to play the clip for the jury to hear before the

witness has properly identified the document.

THE COURT: You can show her without audio and ask

whether she can identify this video in that way.

MR. HORTON: Yes, your Honor. Thank you.

Ms. Loftus, on mute, can you please scrub through the

video of GX VI192.

(Video played for witness)

BY MR. HORTON:

Q. Ms. Li, do you recognize this video?

A. Yes.

Q. And how do you recognize it?

A. So it was livestreamed Guo Wengui on GTV, and it was the

same as the previous one.

MR. HORTON: Your Honor, the government would offer

Government Exhibits VI191 and 192.

MR. SCHIRICK: We maintain our objection, your Honor.

If we can have one further brief sidebar?

THE COURT: Yes.

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(At the sidebar)

THE COURT: So for you to authenticate the audio also,

is there a way that we can have headphones put on her, perhaps?

MR. HORTON: What I was thinking, your Honor, is, the

audio is in Mandarin, so the jury is only going to be hearing

Mandarin audio.

THE COURT: I don't know. Maybe there are members of

the jury who speak Mandarin.

MR. KAMARAJU: The way this is——I'm sorry, your Honor.

I didn't mean to interrupt. The way I've seen this happen in

trial is that there are headphones for the witness, the Court

and the parties, and the audio is played through the

headphones, the witness can then identify it. That's just been

my experience of how this is done. We have to try to

authenticate audio outside the presence of the jury.

THE COURT: So I assume you don't have the headphones

set up at the moment.

MR. FINKEL: We don't, your Honor. What we propose is

that we can play it outside the presence of the jury at the

lunch break, which is coming up. We can authenticate the

audio. And in the meantime, move on. We'll come back to it

after lunch.

THE COURT: Okay.

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(In open court)

THE COURT: Please continue.

MR. HORTON: Ms. Loftus, you can please take the

exhibit down.

We'll come back to that, Ms. Li.

BY MR. HORTON:

Q. Did there come a time that you donated money to the Rule of

Law Foundation?

A. Yes.

Q. And when did you donate to the Rule of Law Foundation?

A. In August of 2019.

Q. And how many times, Ms. Li, did you donate to the Rule of

Law Foundation?

A. I don't remember exactly how many times, but I have a rough

amount, since I have receipts.

Q. And in total, how much did you donate to Rule of Law?

A. 6,000 something.

Q. You said you donated for the first time in 2019. Why, if

at all, Ms. Li, did you not donate when you first heard about

Rule of Law in 2018?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Ms. Li, what reason, if any, did you donate in 2019?

A. The first time that I donate to the Rule of Law Fund was

because the Hong Kong ELAB movement; therefore, there was a

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protest, a girl that her eye was injured. That was my first

donation of fund.

Q. And Ms. Li, what, if anything, did Guo say about how many

people were donating to Rule of Law?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection.

THE COURT: Are you referring to the video that's in

evidence?

MR. HORTON: I was referring to——she had testified

that she had watched a number of his videos over a long period

of time. I was asking if she heard him say anything on that

subject.

THE COURT: Sustained.

BY MR. HORTON:

Q. Ms. Li, between when you first saw Miles Guo in a video in

2017 and the end of 2019, how often did you watch his videos?

MR. SCHIRICK: Asked and answered.

THE COURT: You may answer.

A. I would watch all his livestreaming whenever it's

available.

Q. And how many days a week were you watching his videos over

those two years?

A. So five to six days a week. He would report to the media

every very so often.

Q. And from watching those videos, Ms. Li, what, if anything,

did Guo say about how many people were donating to the Rule of

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Law Foundation?

A. He said many people will make the donation.

Q. And what effect, if any, did hearing Guo say that many

people were donating have on you?

A. It triggered me that I should also make the donation as

well.

Q. And what about hearing Guo say that many people were

donating triggered you to make your own donations?

A. Because there is $100 million of the donation by him.

MR. HORTON: Ms. Loftus, if you could pull up for the

witness what's marked as Government Exhibit VH8, please.

Q. Ms. Li, what is this document?

A. This is the receipt donation, my receipt donation.

Q. And it's your receipt donation to what, Ms. Li?

A. The Rule of Law Foundation.

MR. HORTON: Government offers Government Exhibit VH8,

your Honor.

MR. SCHIRICK: No objection.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Government's Exhibit VH8 received in evidence)

MR. HORTON: Could you please publish it, Ms. Loftus.

BY MR. HORTON:

Q. Ms. Li, what was the date of your $300 donation to Rule of

Law that's shown here?

A. April 15.

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Q. And what year was that?

A. 2020.

Q. Ms. Li, I want to turn to May of 2020. What was GTV?

A. GTV is the livestreaming platform and media established by

Miles Guo.

Q. Did you watch GTV?

A. Yes.

Q. And in May of 2020, Ms. Li, what, if anything, was Miles

Guo saying about GTV?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection.

THE COURT: You may answer.

A. He said GTV is media that you can say whatever you want and

it can grow as big as the YouTube.

Q. Ms. Li, what was Voice of Guo Media?

A. So Voice of Guo Media is Guo and Wei. This is the same

company as the GTV. And so for which amount more than 100,000

will go to Guo. That's——then 100,000 will go to Wei.

Q. And did there come a time, Ms. Li, that you sent money to

Voice of Guo Media?

A. Yes.

MR. HORTON: Ms. Loftus, can you show the witness

what's been marked as Exhibit VH7.

Q. Ms. Li, what is this document?

A. This is a check that I give him for $10,000.

Q. And at the top left of——sorry.

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MR. HORTON: Your Honor, the government would move to

admit VH7.

MR. SCHIRICK: No objection.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Government's Exhibit VH7 received in evidence)

MR. HORTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please publish it.

BY MR. HORTON:

Q. Ms. Li, at the top left corner of the check is a name.

MR. HORTON: Ms. Loftus, can you highlight that,

please.

A. That's my husband's name.

Q. Okay. And why is your husband's name on this check,

Ms. Li?

A. We have the same account.

Q. For what reason were you sending $10,000 to Voice of Guo in

2020?

A. So Guo established GTV. He said this is investment in the

GTV.

Q. And was $10,000 the only money you sent to invest in GTV?

A. No.

Q. How much did you invest in GTV?

A. 20,000.

Q. Ms. Li, who did you communicate with at Voice of Guo Media?

A. Lihong Wei.

Q. And how did you know to communicate with Lihong Wei?

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A. It was according to Miles Guo said on GTV.

Q. What English name, if any, does Lihong Wei go by?

A. Sara Wei.

MR. HORTON: Ms. Loftus, could you please show the

witness Government Exhibit 120.

Q. Ms. Li, who is depicted in Exhibit 120?

A. Lihong Wei, Sara Wei.

MR. HORTON: Government offers Government Exhibit 120.

MR. SCHIRICK: No objection.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Government's Exhibit 120 received in evidence)

Q. Ms. Li, why did you want to invest $20,000 in GTV?

A. I was investing in the GTV stock.

Q. And when you sent money to Voice of Guo, was that the only

time you invested in GTV stock?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

A. There are another two bank wire transfers for $5,000 each

time.

Q. Ms. Li, what did you think would happen when you invested

in GTV stock?

A. Miles Guo said we invested in stock of GTV, that GTV's

stock price will higher than YouTube. What we purchased was

the original stock.

Q. Ms. Li, what was a farm loan?

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A. This is another fraud, money collection scheme.

Q. And how, if at all, did you participate in the farm loans?

A. I put in $60,500 in total.

Q. And who did you first hear describe farm loans?

A. Miles Guo.

Q. And what did Miles Guo say about farm loans?

A. So he said that the private funding for GTV stock is

already closed so if you want to put extra money, there's

another project to put the money in, which is the farm loan.

Q. And Ms. Li, what, if anything, did you expect to get by

making farm loans?

A. GTV stock.

Q. What year did you invest $60,500 in the farm loans?

A. From September 2020 to November 2020.

Q. Ms. Li, what was G/CLUBS?

A. So G/CLUBS is the member of the club that registered in

names of Miles Guo.

Q. And who did you first hear mention G/CLUBS?

A. GTV.

Q. What, if anything, did Miles Guo say about G/CLUBS?

A. So he said G/CLUBS is the member-only club that has the

certain benefit for 10,000 to $50,000.

Q. Did you spend money on G/CLUBS, Ms. Li?

A. Yes.

Q. How much did you spend on G/CLUBS?

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A. $20,000.

Q. What year did you spend $20,000 on G/CLUBS, Ms. Li?

A. It was November——October to November of 2020. I don't

remember exactly. I have receipts.

MR. HORTON: Ms. Loftus, would you show Ms. Li what's

marked as VH9. Thank you, Ms. Loftus.

Can you scroll through the pages of the document.

Q. Ms. Li, what is this document?

A. So this is the registration or consent form for G/CLUBS

member.

Q. Did you receive this document?

A. I didn't receive this document.

Q. Ms. Li, is your name on this document?

A. Yes, it's there. I filled in the form online.

Q. Okay. And can you say where on this document your name is.

A. On the second row.

Q. And what does that line say?

A. This row indicates my name.

MR. HORTON: Your Honor, the government offers GX VH9.

MR. SCHIRICK: Just a moment, your Honor.

(Counsel conferring)

MR. HORTON: Ms. Loftus, could you take it down for

one moment, please.

Could I have a moment, your Honor.

THE COURT: Yes.

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MR. HORTON: Thank you.

(Counsel conferring)

MR. HORTON: Thank you, your Honor.

If you could, Ms. Loftus, if you could put that

document back up for the witness, please.

BY MR. HORTON:

Q. And Ms. Li, what is the date of this document, at the top,

where it says Sent?

A. November 9, 2020.

MR. HORTON: Ms. Loftus, could you just zoom in on the

Sent date.

And your Honor, the government offers Exhibit VH9.

MR. SCHIRICK: No objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Government's Exhibit VH9 received in evidence)

BY MR. HORTON:

Q. Ms. Li, what is the date that this document was sent?

A. November 28th.

MR. HORTON: And Ms. Loftus, if you could go back to

the main document.

Q. And Ms. Li, what is this document?

A. This is my payment receipt.

Q. When you sent $20,000 to G/CLUBS, Ms. Li, what, if

anything, were you expecting to get?

A. Also GTV stock.

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Q. And why were you expecting to get GTV stock for your

investment in G/CLUBS?

A. Can I say it? Can I say it or——

THE COURT: You may answer the question.

A. Okay. So he said the money going to G/CLUBS is also can

receive the stock for GTV, and also, I can also enjoy the

member benefit for this $20,000; I can get a discount on

merchandise and also 20 percent off on purchasing a house.

Q. And Ms. Li, which of those benefits, if any, did you get?

A. Nothing.

Q. Ms. Li, if the G/CLUBS membership were only the benefits

and not the GTV stock, would you have bought it?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

A. Yes.

Q. So Ms. Li, if you knew that by investing $20,000 in

G/CLUBS, you would only get the benefits you described but not

GTV stock, would you still have invested?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Sustained. Don't answer.

MR. HORTON: May I have a moment, your Honor.

THE COURT: You may.

BY MR. HORTON:

Q. Ms. Li, you said that he described benefits in GTV stock

for G/CLUBS memberships. Who was "he"?

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A. So all the names that have G in front, that is the G

member.

Q. And when you say the G member——

A. That is Guo Wengui member.

Q. My question is withdrawn.

MR. HORTON: Your Honor, at this point I'm going to

move on to a different topic. I'm happy to do that, or if

you'd like to take the break, I just want to——

THE COURT: Even though it's only 11:29, we will take

our break now.

So you'll come back at noon. Remember, don't discuss

the case amongst yourselves, don't do any research, and don't

listen to any reports or any descriptions concerning this case.

(Continued on next page)

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(Jury not present)

THE COURT: So we turn now to the authentication of

the video. How long of a clip did you plan to play?

MR. HORTON: Your Honor, I think the total clip is

about two and a half minutes, but I think we can authenticate

it by playing a portion of that.

THE COURT: All righty. If you'll be seated. Thank

you.

MR. HORTON: Ms. Loftus, can you bring up for the

witness, please, GX VI192.

THE COURT: Before we start, is there any objection to

playing a portion as opposed to the full clip?

MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, it's the defense's position

that to identify it, you should be playing the full clip.

THE COURT: Okay. So you'll play the full clip.

MR. HORTON: Okay. And Ms. Loftus, with the audio on,

could you please play this clip.

(Video played)

BY MR. HORTON:

Q. Ms. Li, what is the video that we just watched?

A. So this is the second time that I saw Miles Guo. He said

he was going to donate $100 million into the Rule of Law Fund.

MR. HORTON: Your Honor, the government offers

GX VI192 and 191.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

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(Government's Exhibits VI191, VI192 received in

evidence)

THE COURT: So we will return at noon to continue with

the direct examination of the witness.

Ma'am, you're not permitted to discuss this case

during the break.

MR. HORTON: Your Honor, if I may, briefly, just

before we leave. One of the last questions I asked, your Honor

sustained an objection to "asked and answered."

And actually, now that I think about what I'm about to

say, I wonder if it's better for the witness to leave before I

ask the Court about this.

THE COURT: Yes. If you'll step out now and return,

ready to walk into the courtroom at noon.

(Witness not present)

THE COURT: Go ahead.

MR. HORTON: Thank you, your Honor. Just two brief

matters.

The first is that your Honor sustained an "asked and

answered" objection to a question I asked Ms. Li about——it was

a hypothetical about a fact that was in evidence, about whether

she would have invested in G/CLUBS, and it had been asked and

answered, and I just want to explain why I asked it again. It

was also an improper——I'm sorry. It was also a compound

question, so it was not——

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THE COURT: A what kind of question?

MR. HORTON: A compound question. I asked her, If you

had only gotten the benefits and not the stock, would you have

still invested, so it was a poorly constructed question, and I

apologize for that. The reason I repeated a variation of the

question but it was substantively similar, after your Honor

sustained the "asked and answered" objection, is that I had a

basis to believe that the question was not properly translated

to Miss Li, and that's based on what I've heard Ms. Li say

about her purposes for investing in G/CLUBS. And so my purpose

was not simply to sort of blow through your Honor's sustained

objection. I think what I did is, in asking it in a compound

way through the translator and as a hypothetical, I just

offered a very poorly constructed question. What I would ask

the Court's permission to do is ask her if she had not——if she

knew she wouldn't get stock in GTV, would she have invested in

G/CLUBS; take the compound out of it and just ask her that

hypothetical that is consistent with the Court's pretrial

rulings on hypotheticals to victims.

MR. KAMARAJU: Your Honor, you swore in the

interpreter, you swore in the interpreter to interpret

faithfully. Mr. Horton is not a Mandarin expert, and I don't

think he's allowed to second-guess the interpretation without

any basis simply because he may have gotten a different answer

during prep.

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THE COURT: I don't believe that the interpreter was

sworn.

MR. KAMARAJU: Well, that may be, your Honor. Maybe I

assumed that because that's what I understand the normal

practice is. But either way, I don't think that Mr. Horton is

entitled to second-guess the interpretation without a basis

other than he got a different answer when he asked the question

before.

THE COURT: So you're stuck with the interpretation

unless you have a basis, based upon the language itself, as

opposed to expecting a different answer.

MR. HORTON: So, your Honor, what I would ask is that

the Court exercise its discretion to permit me to ask a

different question, which is not the compound question that I

think led to the confusion, which is just, if you had known

that you wouldn't get GTV stock, which is a fact in evidence,

would you have invested, and that is almost word for word the

hypotheticals that we put in our motions in limine for

hypotheticals to be posed to victims, just——it's a different

question. It strips out the compound nature of the first one.

And just ask it once and move on.

MR. KAMARAJU: It's the same question, just stripping

out a detail. It's not——the substance of the question is the

same. He's merely trying to strip out a detail to make it

sound like it's a different substantive question, your Honor,

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which is the same thing your Honor sustained on

cross-examination before.

THE COURT: I'll think about it. We'll come back at

noon.

MR. HORTON: Thank you, your Honor.

(Luncheon recess)

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A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N

12:00 P.M.

THE COURT: My ruling is that you cannot ask the

proposed question.

Would you bring the jurors in.

(Jury present)

THE COURT: Please be seated.

Remember that you're still under oath.

You may continue your inquiry.

MR. HORTON: Thank you, your Honor.

Ms. Loftus, could you please pull up for the witness

what's marked as Government Exhibit 191. And this document is

in evidence, your Honor.

Could you please publish it for the jury, Ms. Loftus.

THE COURT: I don't believe the jurors have had the

benefit of hearing that it's been admitted.

MR. HORTON: I was going to ask her a few questions

about it.

THE COURT: Oh, you plan to continue your inquiry. Go

ahead.

MR. HORTON: Yes, a few questions about the document.

Thank you, your Honor.

MR. HORTON: Ms. Loftus has published Government

Exhibit VI-191, which is in evidence.

BY MR. HORTON:

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Q. Ms. Li, what is this document?

A. So this is the live streaming of Miles Guo that he said he

will donate $100 million and $1 million from his family fund.

Q. And the document says YouTube on it. Whose YouTube account

is this?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection.

THE COURT: Excuse me?

MR. HORTON: The question was whose YouTube account is

shown on this document?

THE COURT: You may answer.

A. Miles Guo.

Q. And Ms. Li, what on here indicates that this is Miles Guo's

YouTube account?

A. So there is the button indicated, and there was his

headshot on the right.

Q. Ms. Li, to the right of the image you're describing, it

says 451K subscribers. What does that mean?

A. This is the -- his supporter that who register.

Q. And Ms. Li, did you watch Miles Guo's videos on YouTube?

A. Yes.

MR. HORTON: Ms. Loftus, can you please show what's in

evidence as GX 192, and publish it for the jury, please.

THE COURT: All right. Just to be clear, did you have

any further authentication questions?

MR. HORTON: Not authentication questions, your Honor.

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THE COURT: So you're asking that the video be

admitted?

MR. HORTON: I believe your Honor admitted 191 and 192

before the break.

THE COURT: For the benefit of the jury, it is

admitted.

MR. HORTON: Thank you, your Honor.

Ms. Loftus, can you play a portion of video at --

(Video played)

MR. HORTON: Thank you, Ms. Loftus. You can stop

there.

Q. Ms. Li, did you watch this video before?

A. Yes.

Q. And what effect, if any, did watching this video have on

your decision to donate to Rule of Law?

A. So it facilitating to donate money. He said the family

fund is $1 billion, and he already donate $100 million.

MR. HORTON: Your Honor, can I have one moment,

please?

THE COURT: You may.

(Counsel conferred)

MR. HORTON: Thank you, your Honor.

Ms. Loftus, you can please take this exhibit down.

THE COURT: You mentioned 191. Is that 191?

MR. HORTON: So 191 was the screen grab of YouTube.

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THE COURT: Yes.

MR. HORTON: And this is 192, which is the video.

THE COURT: Is the actual video.

MR. HORTON: Yes.

THE COURT: Understood.

So they are both admitted.

MR. HORTON: They are, your Honor.

THE COURT: Go ahead.

BY MR. HORTON:

Q. Ms. Li, I'm going to shift gears.

Who is Lu Jiamei?

A. Her internet name is Doudou.

THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter would like to

verify.

A. So she was also one of the member of Guo Media.

Q. And what year did you first hear about Lu Jiamei?

A. 2020.

Q. And what did you first hear about Lu Jiamei

A. So it was about that Lu Jiamei invested $40,000 into Guo

Media and she ask for a refund.

THE COURT: One moment, please.

Counsel, please step up.

(Continued on next page)

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(At sidebar)

THE COURT: So I was just made aware that Rule 604

requires an interpreter to take an oath, and I don't have any

oath on record; and so it is appropriate that she take the

oath. But the question is whether or not the defense will

challenge whatever she interpreted before taking the oath.

MR. KAMARAJU: Can I have just one minute to consult

with Ms. Shroff?

(Counsel conferred)

MR. KAMARAJU: I think obviously our struggle, your

Honor, is since we don't speak the language, it's a little hard

for us to know whether we think she's been interpreting

properly. Could I have one minute to just consult with my

client to see if he has any -- he hasn't raised an issue, but I

just want to make sure that he hasn't raised an issue with the

interpretation --

THE COURT: Of course.

MR. KAMARAJU: -- which might inform us.

MS. SHROFF: I just need to talk to him.

(Counsel conferred)

(Counsel conferred with defendant)

MR. KAMARAJU: Thank you, your Honor.

Just making sure nothing has changed in the interim.

(Pause)

MR. KAMARAJU: If your Honor wants to swear in the

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interpreter now, the defense isn't going to challenge the

previous testimony. Mr. Guo says he understood it.

THE COURT: So I am sorry for the error.

MR. KAMARAJU: I should have caught it too, your

Honor.

THE COURT: I did exclusively trial work, every single

day trial work in the state court, where there is not that

requirement. And so it did not occur to me. It has never been

raised to me during my eleven years here. So I wasn't aware of

the rule. And yes, she should be sworn now.

MR. KAMARAJU: Does your Honor intend to do that -- I

might suggest doing it outside the presence of the jury so it

doesn't seem strange.

THE COURT: Yes. Right.

MR. FINKEL: Should we just do it in the side?

MR. KAMARAJU: It's up to your Honor.

THE COURT: Do you have any objection to my doing it

after the witness's testimony is done? Or do you want me to --

MR. KAMARAJU: My only concern about that is --

MS. SHROFF: We have no objection, your Honor. We

don't have an objection, your Honor. And if our client had had

difficulty with the translation, we would have raised it with

the Court, because that would have been our obligation. So I

just don't want there to be any sense that, you know --

MR. KAMARAJU: If your Honor wants to do it at the end

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of the day -- I don't know if this witness plans to carry over

at this rate or --

MR. HORTON: No.

MS. SHROFF: You know what, your Honor? You can just

swear in. We don't need to hear it. If you want to do it at

the sidebar, it's perfectly all right with us.

THE COURT: All right. So please bring her over then.

MR. KAMARAJU: I'm sorry, your Honor, I should have

caught it, too. I've done plenty of foreign language trials.

MR. FINKEL: The government apologizes as well. We

should have caught this, too. We're all just doing our best

here.

(Interpreter present)

THE COURT: Would you please state your name.

THE INTERPRETER: Sarah Chiang.

THE COURT: What is your preparation as far as being

an interpreter?

THE INTERPRETER: Preparation?

THE COURT: Yes. Your schooling?

THE INTERPRETER: Oh, yes. I got my MBA, yes. And I

was in professional translation industry for more than 20

years.

THE COURT: Do you swear or affirm that the

translation and interpretation up until now of this witness and

going forward of this witness is a true interpretation and

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translation of what she has said in Mandarin?

THE INTERPRETER: Yeah, to the best of my knowledge.

THE COURT: So you are fluent in both Mandarin and

English?

THE INTERPRETER: Yes.

THE COURT: Any questions from counsel?

MR. FINKEL: Not from the government.

MR. KAMARAJU: Not from us, your Honor.

THE COURT: Okay. Thank you.

(Continued on next page)

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(In open court)

THE COURT: You may continue.

MR. HORTON: Thank you, your Honor.

BY MR. HORTON:

Q. Ms. Li, in 2020, what, if anything, did Miles Guo say about

Lu Jiamei

A. So he said Lu Jiamei asked for a refund. She was the agent

sent by CCP.

Q. And at the time, what did you think about Lu Jiamei

A. I believe whatever he said.

Q. And when you say "he," who are you referring to?

A. Miles Guo.

Q. Ms. Li, did you travel to Hawaii in 2020?

A. Yes.

Q. And why did you travel to Hawaii in 2020?

A. To protest at Doudou, Lu Jiamei.

Q. And how many other people, if any, went with you to protest

Lu Jiamei in Hawaii?

A. I don't remember the exact number, but it was about 23 to

25 people.

Q. And who, if anybody, told that group of people to go

protest Lu Jiamei in Hawaii?

A. Miles Guo.

Q. What did you see at the protests of Lu Jiamei in Hawaii?

A. I didn't see anything.

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Q. And what happened at the protest of Lu Jiamei in Hawaii?

A. So there was some propaganda printout, and also claiming

that Lu Jiamei and her husband were Chinese CCP agent.

Q. And Ms. Li, when else, if ever, did you go to a protest

organized by Miles Guo?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

A. Yes.

Q. And when else did you go to a protest?

A. Texas.

Q. How long were you in Texas for the protest?

A. Twenty-nine days.

Q. And how many people did you go to that Texas protest with?

A. So I don't remember the exact number, but what I saw was

200 to $300 -- sorry, 200 to 300 people, they are taking turns.

Q. And what, if anything, did you pay for at those protests?

A. So I attend the events of my hotel expenses. And also -- I

also at the events some expenses for other people.

Q. And about how much money did you spend at the protest in

Texas in 2020?

A. I spend about $10,000. And I don't have all the receipts,

I only have receipt for $7,000.

Q. Ms. Li, turning back to Lu Jiamei, what did you do when you

got back from the protests against Lu Jiamei in Hawaii?

A. When I was home, I was stay at home. I was very scared.

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Q. And why were you very scared when you got back from the

protests in Hawaii?

A. So because she was accused of being CCP's agents after

requesting for a refund.

Q. And what were you seeking a refund of when you were accused

of being a CCP agent?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. Misstates testimony.

THE INTERPRETER: Sorry. Can you say again?

THE COURT: One moment. Sustained.

MR. HORTON: Thank you, your Honor.

Q. When you were scared after the protests, what did you do?

A. I stayed at home for two months straight; didn't go out at

all.

Q. And why did you stay at home for almost two months

straight?

A. When I came back from Hawaii was December 12, and Wei's

farm was dismissed on December 15.

Q. Ms. Li, you said Wei's farm? What was Wei's farm?

A. So this is the first farm that Miles Guo allowed to -- this

is the first one that Guo and Wei, Miles Guo allow to open

underneath him.

Q. And what, if anything, was the name of Wei's farm?

A. To collect money, just to collect money.

Q. Ms. Li, did Wei's farm have a name?

A. There were two names.

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Q. What were those names?

A. The first name is called U.S. West Farm.

Q. And what's the second name?

A. Phoenix Farm.

Q. And what, if anything, did you do with those farms, the

west coast farm and the Phoenix farm?

A. They are the same boss.

Q. And how, if at all, did you participate in that farm?

A. There's no activities, is only at Discord.

Q. And what is Discord?

A. Is also a so-called maybe social media.

Q. You said Wei's farm. Who is Wei?

A. Lihong Wei.

Q. Is Lihong Wei also Sara Wei?

A. Yes, the same person.

Q. Ms. Li, what, if anything, was the connection between Sara

Wei's farm and Voice of Guo Media?

A. Same leader. One leader. And two companies.

Q. Now, Ms. Li, you said that Sara Wei's farm closed in

December 2020?

A. Yes.

Q. How did you find out that Sara Wei's farm was closing?

A. So it was announced at the Discord phone that whether --

that where everybody gather together.

Q. And what understanding did you have, if any, about who Sara

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Wei reported to?

A. Sara Wei's boss is Miles Guo.

Q. What was your reaction, Ms. Li, to hearing that Sara Wei's

farm was closing?

A. So before that Guo and Wei allowed her to open the farm and

I thought my money is gone.

Q. Why did the farm closing make you think your money would be

gone?

A. I thought Sara would took the money and go away.

Q. Did there come a time, Ms. Li, that Miles Guo spoke about

the closure of the farm?

A. So Miles Guo, he gather other people from the farm, and at

the Discord have a private meeting.

Q. And were you in that private meeting?

A. I was in the meeting. I was there every single day.

Q. And what, if anything, did you do while that meeting with

Miles Guo was happening?

A. I want to hear how he want to deal with this matter.

Q. And were you there for the whole meeting?

A. Yes.

Q. What day was Guo's meeting on Discord about the closure of

the farm?

A. So he said that meeting was on December 25, 2020, on

Christmas Day.

Q. Is that the day that --

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THE COURT: One moment.

When you say you had a meeting on Discord, are you

talking about a videoconference?

THE WITNESS: It was audio.

THE COURT: Go ahead.

BY MR. HORTON:

Q. Ms. Li, how did Guo's meeting, the audio meeting on Discord

about the closure of the farm, how did that meeting begin?

A. So Guo said in the previous two days, he said he will give

us -- say something to us on the date of December 25.

Q. And did there come a time in the audio meeting that

somebody asked Miles Guo a question?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection.

A. Yes.

Q. And what was the question that was asked?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. Hearsay.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

Q. Ms. Li, what was the question that was asked of Miles Guo

at the Discord meeting?

A. So in the first nine minutes of the conference, a dentist

from Himalaya asked how he want to handle with this money.

Q. And what did you understand that the dentist was asking him

for?

A. So he asked Miles Guo that he agreed -- he agreed with

those monies, but that he asked for the refund.

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Q. And what did Miles Guo say after the dentist asked for a

refund?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection.

THE COURT: You may answer.

A. He said this person is coming to make the interruption.

Q. And what happened next after that, Ms. Li?

A. So later he asked Guopin to kick him out.

Q. And was the dentist kicked out after asking Miles Guo for a

refund?

A. Yes.

Q. What effect, if any, Ms. Li, did it have on you to hear

Miles Guo kick out the dentist after they asked for a refund?

A. I also want to ask the same question since I also make an

investment in there as well.

Q. And did you ask the question in that Discord meeting on

Christmas Day?

A. After the dentist was kicked out and he was yelling at him,

and I don't dare to make a voice.

Q. Ms. Li, what records, if any, do you have of this meeting

with Miles Guo?

A. Yes.

MR. HORTON: Your Honor, may I approach?

THE COURT: Yes.

Q. Ms. Li, I've handed you an item that's been marked

Government Exhibit VH-100, which contains Government Exhibits

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VH-10 and Government Exhibit VH-11.

Q. Have you seen this item before, Ms. Li?

A. Yes, there has my -- there is my signature with it.

Q. And when did you see it?

A. This morning.

Q. And what are the files that are on that item?

A. It shows the entire process where the Himalaya dentist was

kicked out. Kick out.

Q. And who made those files that are on that drive, Ms. Li?

A. Myself.

MR. HORTON: Your Honor, Government Exhibits VH-10 and

VH-11, we're not offering at this time. They are not yet

translated. We do ask that the defense raise any

authentication objections to those exhibits now.

MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, we haven't seen them in

court. We haven't seen them shown to the witness to have her

authenticate them. We know that the digital files are on the

drive, but that's it. So I'm not sure how we could --

THE COURT: So you'll step up.

(Continued on next page)

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(At sidebar)

THE COURT: Are you asking that they be admitted

subject to connection?

MR. HORTON: So we had her authenticate them, and she

saw what was on the drive, she saw that they -- heard, rather,

the audio clips. She testified that she made the audio clips

and she knew what they were.

And so we wanted to get that in the record and see if

the defense had any objections as to authenticity. They are

Mandarin audio clips. We're having them translated; they are

not translated yet, and so we are not offering them at this

time. We just wanted to see if there was an authenticity

objection.

MR. FINKEL: This is further to what the parties and

your Honor discussed this morning before the jury entered.

This is the second of two clips that we are just seeking to

authenticate with the witness. And then once the parties have

time to work through a translation, would then seek to offer

it. So we just want to make sure there are no authenticity

objections.

THE COURT: Are you saying that you want to offer them

after the witness has testified?

MR. FINKEL: Yeah, later on in the trial either

through a stipulation of the parties as to translation or, if

necessary, we'll put a translation expert on the stand.

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THE COURT: So you can ask any authentication

questions without having heard the audiotapes.

MR. FINKEL: I should note the exhibits have been

produced, so they have the exhibits.

MR. SCHIRICK: Okay. I'm not sure how the witness can

authenticate audio files just by looking at a thumb drive.

That's unclear to me, number one.

THE COURT: So we can do the same thing that we did

the last time, which is to have them played outside the hearing

of the jury.

MR. HORTON: Your Honor, if I might.

I believe I had elicited this, and if I didn't, I'm

happy to do it now. I had elicited that she knew what was on

the drive because she heard those files. When she heard them

on the drive, she recognized them as the clips that she made of

this meeting she testified about. And so I think that's

sufficient for her to authenticate them.

THE COURT: If he's going to raise the authentication

objection, I'm going to have you play them for her. The

question is just when.

MR. KAMARAJU: I think you can do it at the end of her

direct. I don't know how much longer you have.

MR. HORTON: Not that much longer. Not that much

longer.

MR. FINKEL: So, your Honor, it's entirely up to you,

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and I think really more up to the defense. It's Mr. Guo's

voice on them. And I think -- I guess what we would propose,

subject to your Honor's view, is after the direct we can play

them; they can raise any authenticity objections at that point,

and then the cross would begin.

THE COURT: That's fine. We'll do it that way.

MR. FINKEL: Thank you.

(Continued on next page)

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(In open court)

THE COURT: You may continue.

MR. HORTON: Thank you, your Honor.

BY MR. HORTON:

Q. Ms. Li, did there come a time that you made your own

broadcasts?

A. Yes.

Q. And what year was that?

A. 2021, February 6, 2021.

Q. What was the subject of the broadcast you made in

February 2021?

A. It was talking about that all those leaders underneath

Miles Guo, they all liars.

Q. And who of the leaders underneath Miles Guo were you

talking about?

A. Guopin, Liya.

Q. Ms. Li, does Liya go by any other names?

A. Mulan.

Q. And who was Mulan?

A. So this is the same person as Liya, two names.

Q. And who was Liya?

A. So this is the main translator of Miles Guo and company

that is also the farm.

Q. And what did you understand was Liya's role for Miles Guo?

A. So she -- it's the same level as Sara Wei.

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Q. And what, if anything, did you say about Miles Guo on these

broadcasts in February of 2021?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A. So in the beginning that I said those people I met are

offline, they all lying.

Q. And Ms. Li, what, if anything, in your broadcasts in

February 2021 did you say about Miles Guo?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Did there come a time, Ms. Li, that you communicated

directly with Miles Guo?

A. No.

Q. When you were a follower of Miles Guo, Ms. Li, did you use

WhatsApp?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you ever get or send a message to Miles Guo on

WhatsApp?

A. It was when the farm was dismissed in December, that was

the first time I send him a message.

Q. And what did you communicate to him in those WhatsApp

messages?

A. So I communicate with him regarding the matter that offline

leaders was -- had some problem, and that this person is the

liar.

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Q. And in those communications with Miles Guo, Ms. Li, what,

if anything, did you ask him for?

A. He just ignore me.

Q. What, if anything, did you ask Miles Guo for in those

communications, Ms. Li?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Ms. Li, what's H Coin?

A. So HB is also known as G Coin. It is the first letter from

Guo, G-U-O.

Q. And did there come a time that somebody asked you to buy G

Coin or H Coin?

A. Many people.

Q. And what year were you asked to buy G Coin or H Coin?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. Compound.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. What, if anything, Ms. Li, did you understand was the

relationship between G Coin and H Coin?

A. It is the same thing, and but later on changed to H Coin.

Q. And did you ultimately send money to somebody for H Coin?

A. Yes.

Q. And who did you send that money to for H Coin?

A. Yongbing Zhang.

Q. And who is Yongbing Zhang?

A. He is the farm owner of the Washington, D.C. farm.

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Q. And what, if anything, did you understand was the

relationship between the owner of the D.C. farm and Miles Guo?

A. They are together.

Q. How much money did you send to the D.C. farm leader for H

Coin?

A. A total amount is $5,700, plus $30 of a wire transfer fee.

Q. And when was that, Ms. Li?

MR. SCHIRICK: Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

A. 2021.

Q. And why did you agree to send $5,000 to the D.C. farm

leader for H Coin?

A. So after my live streaming and I got a lot of pressure, and

so a lot of people pressured me to purchase it.

Q. Ms. Li, do you use Twitter?

A. Yes.

Q. Did there come a time that you posted about Miles Guo on

Twitter?

A. Yes.

Q. And when did you first post about Miles Guo on Twitter?

A. It was on July 15, 2021, that was my first time.

Q. And what did you post?

A. I don't recall now.

Q. What was the subject that you were posting about?

A. This person is a liar.

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Q. And why did you post that Miles Guo was a liar in

July 2021?

A. So it was when the dentist asked for refund and he got kick

out.

Q. And you said that was in December 2020, Ms. Li? Why did

you post about it in July 2021?

A. Because I have a live streaming GTV for 41 or 42 days, I

don't recall exactly.

Q. And what's the connection between your live streaming on

GTV and why you tweeted about Miles Guo being a liar in 2021?

A. Because GTV is Guo's, Miles Guo's media. I don't dare to

say something bad about him on there.

Q. And what, if anything, changed in July 2021, where you

dared to say something?

A. So either July 10 or July 11 of 2020, Miles Guo and the

Lude, also known as Won Tin Gong, they have a fight over it.

Q. What do you mean they had a fight over it?

A. Lude, he used to live at Guo and Grace place in New York.

Q. Ms. Li, since the July 2021 tweet you mentioned, how often,

if ever, have you posted about Miles Guo?

A. I have always been doing that since then.

Q. And what message, if any, have you intended to convey

through those posts about Miles Guo since 2021?

A. So I want to tell many people and also people who climb the

wall from China, don't keep putting money in here. This is

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organized Mafia.

Q. And when you say you want to tell people don't keep putting

money in here, where do you not want them to keep putting their

money?

A. The farms.

Q. And who do you understand controls the farms?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

A. There are many farms underneath it.

Q. And who do you understand, Ms. Li, if anybody, the farms

ultimately report to?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Have you followed this trial in the news, Ms. Li?

A. Always.

Q. And why have you been following this in the news?

A. So I want to see if a liar will be committed or charge.

Q. And who is the liar you're referring to, Ms. Li?

A. So Miles Guo, and also the farmers underneath him. And

they collect the money, they are like a marketing layer,

marketing schemes, and they are Mafia.

Q. Ms. Li, I want to talk about the $20,000 you first invested

in GTV. When, if ever, was any of that money refunded to you?

A. So the money was refunded to me in November of 2023 through

ICBC -- ICEC -- SEC. Sorry.

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Q. And how much of your $20,000 that you first invested in GTV

did you get back from the SEC?

A. I only -- it was 7.2 or 7.8 percent less.

Q. And Ms. Li, the $60,500 you invested in farm loans for GTV

stock, did you get any GTV stock for that investment?

THE INTERPRETER: Sorry, is it 6,000?

MR. HORTON: 60,500.

A. No.

Q. What, if anything, did you get for that $60,500, Ms. Li?

A. I didn't get anything.

Q. Ms. Li, for the $20,000 you invested in G Clubs, how much,

if any, GTV stock did you get for that?

A. Nothing.

Q. And what, if anything, did you get for the $20,000 you

spent on G Clubs?

A. So in the new year of 2022, I receive a white box that

looks very cheap. And so inside I think there was a cup and

also some cookies, but I throw it away.

Q. Is that the only thing you got from G Clubs, Ms. Li?

A. Yes.

Q. Ms. Li, if you had known that you would not get any GTV

stock, would you have given money to Miles Guo?

MR. SCHIRICK: Objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Ms. Li, when you were a follower of Miles Guo, what, if

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anything, did he say about what the CCP was doing to him?

A. So I don't really take his word seriously, but I hope China

can be like United States to be a free and democrat country and

be a country with rule of law.

Q. And Ms. Li, when you were a follower of his, did you hear

Miles Guo say anything about what the CCP was doing to him?

MR. SCHIRICK: Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. HORTON: Can I have one moment, your Honor?

THE COURT: Yes.

(Counsel conferred)

Q. Ms. Li, what is the total amount of money you invested to

try to get GTV stock?

A. $100,500.

Q. And that $100,000, where did you get it from?

A. So I got -- $10,000 I got from my home. But for rest of

the money, I use the mortgage -- second mortgage for my home.

Q. And Ms. Li, other than the part that was refunded by the

SEC, how much of that money do you have today?

A. I don't understand the question.

Q. Other than what -- other than the refund you got from the

SEC, how much of the $100,000 you invested for GTV stock do you

have today?

MR. SCHIRICK: Asked and answered.

THE COURT: You may answer.

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THE INTERPRETER: Excuse me, I need to clarify.

A. So I didn't get anything back other than that I told

Yongbing Zhang that I want the money back for $5,700.

Q. And Ms. Li, the money of yours that you didn't get back,

where do you understand it is today?

A. Miles Guo stole my money.

MR. HORTON: Thank you, your Honor.

No further questions subject to what was discussed

previously at sidebar.

THE COURT: Members of the jury, we're going to take a

brief pause at this time. Again, don't discuss the case.

(Jury not present)

THE COURT: All righty. So you can go ahead and ask

the foundational questions of the witness.

MR. HORTON: Thank you, your Honor.

Ms. Loftus, if you can please pull up Government

Exhibit VH-10. And with the audio on, if you could please play

it.

(Audio played)

Q. Ms. Li, what was that clip?

A. So this is on December 25, 2020, on the Discord platform

that the dentist Himalaya asked for refund.

MR. HORTON: And Ms. Loftus, can you please play

VH-11.

(Audio played)

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Q. Ms. Li, what is that a recording of?

A. So on the first half it was the Himalaya ask for refund.

The second half was Ms. -- Mr. Guo, he was asking people if

you ask refund again, you will be kicked out.

Q. And whose voices are heard on the clips?

THE INTERPRETER: Say that again?

Q. I'm sorry, whose voices are heard on the clips?

A. So the person who was on the other voice is Guopin that

saying kick it out. And the other person is Miles Guo's voice.

Q. Miles Guo's voice is on that recording?

A. Yes.

Q. Is Miles Guo's voice on both the two recordings we just

played, VH-10 and VH-11?

A. Yes, both had Miles Guo's voice.

THE COURT: What is the name of the dentist that you

said was kicked out?

THE WITNESS: So I don't exactly know her name is, but

all the investors and also leaders online, they all use the

online name.

THE COURT: Go ahead.

THE WITNESS: So Guo -- Miles Guo and also the owner

of the farmers, they all know the names of investors.

BY MR. HORTON:

Q. Ms. Li, the dentist you said is on that recording, what

name, if any, did she call herself?

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A. Himalaya.

MR. HORTON: Your Honor, at this point we'd ask if the

defense has any objection as to authenticity.

THE COURT: Mr. Schirick.

MR. SCHIRICK: No objection to authenticity, your

Honor.

THE COURT: How did you make the recordings?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

THE COURT: My question is how did you make the

recordings?

THE WITNESS: I use my cell phone.

THE COURT: All right. So those recordings are

admitted. But we need to indicate to the jury when the jury is

present that they are admitted.

MR. SCHIRICK: I believe all that was at issue is

authentication, your Honor, for now. And then the government

indicated that they may later try to move them in through a

different witness.

THE COURT: So you're not seeking to admit them?

MR. HORTON: So, your Honor, at this moment with the

witness here, we wanted to address authenticity. The

recordings include the defendant's statements, so they include

party admissions. For the convenience of the Court and the

parties, what we're doing is getting them translated and we're

going to --

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THE COURT: Oh, yes, I forgot about the translation.

Okay. So as far as the foundation, I find that it is

adequate and the defense is not challenging it. But we are

awaiting the translation for -- before you move them into

admission.

Okay. So let's get the jurors back, please.

(Continued on next page)

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(Jury present)

THE COURT: Please be seated.

Cross-examination?

MS. SHROFF: May we have a moment at sidebar?

THE COURT: Yes, you may.

MS. SHROFF: Thank you.

(At the sidebar)

MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I originally noticed somebody

speaking to the government at the table. I wasn't quite sure

who the person was. But I am reminded by my co-counsel that

the person on the left side that was talking to the government,

I think she is——her name is Stephanie, she's an interpreter

with whom we've had colossal trouble with, and we stopped using

her at the MDC.

MR. KAMARAJU: We don't know if she was called by the

Court or——

MR. FINKEL: Your Honor asked that we get another

interpreter. That's who we were able to get. I didn't know

anything about her. If you don't want to use her, that's fine

with us. I think this has been going okay in terms of

efficiency, and we're happy to proceed however the Court would

like to. Apparently this interpreter is not——

MR. KAMARAJU: We just had her previously interpret

for us at the jail. We had to stop using her because, whether

it's a dialogue——dialect or whatever it is, they just don't

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understand each other.

THE COURT: All right. So we will not be using her.

MS. SHROFF: We just didn't want to start and——

THE COURT: Understood.

MR. FINKEL: Thank you, your Honor.

(Continued on next page)

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(In open court)

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. SCHIRICK:

Q. Good afternoon, Ms. Li.

A. Good afternoon.

Q. Now you testified on direct that you've been following this

trial closely, right?

A. I used to.

Q. And you've been following the testimony of other witnesses

at this trial?

A. I didn't have so much time to watch everything.

Q. Well, my question was, have you followed the testimony of

other witnesses, not if she's followed everything.

MR. HORTON: Objection. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: What's good for the goose.

Q. How else have you been following this trial, Ms. Li?

A. I just look at the progress, nothing else.

Q. And what sources are you consulting to check on the

progress?

A. Twitter.

Q. And what Twitter accounts in particular?

A. I forgot about my account.

Q. You forgot about the account that you were following?

A. Oh, no. I want to——can you please clarify your question,

please.

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Q. Sure. My question is: What Twitter accounts have you been

following?

A. Some government account and also journalists' accounts.

Q. What journalists' accounts have you been following on

Twitter?

A. There are two journalists, but I forgot the name. One's

called Nation something.

Q. Are they with newspaper outlets?

A. No.

Q. Online website?

A. Can I ask you a question?

THE COURT: No. You can only answer.

A. I don't know what you mean.

Q. Have any of the Twitter accounts you've been following been

associated with online publications?

A. No.

Q. What government accounts on Twitter have you been

following?

A. All the accounts that I report to that I follow them.

Q. Can you be more specific.

MR. HORTON: Objection. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: You may answer.

A. FBI, Department of Justice, SEC, Homeland Security bureau.

Q. Your testimony is that the Homeland Security bureau is

posting about this trial on its Twitter account?

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MR. HORTON: Objection. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Have you spoken to anyone who has attended trial, apart

from the government lawyers?

A. Which trial?

Q. The one that we're in now.

A. Yes.

Q. Who have you spoken to?

A. I don't know this person's name.

Q. How did this person contact you?

A. It was my——from my reported letter, FBI contact me.

Q. So is it your testimony that the FBI agent who contacted

you has been telling you what's happening at trial?

MR. HORTON: Objection.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. SCHIRICK: It's a clarification question, your

Honor. It's taken three questions to get here.

THE COURT: There have been many efforts of

clarification questions.

MR. SCHIRICK: Thank you, your Honor.

BY MR. SCHIRICK:

Q. Did the FBI agent you spoke to tell you about anyone who

testified yesterday?

A. No.

Q. Did the FBI agent that you've spoken to tell you about any

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other specific witness's testimony?

A. No.

Q. Other than the FBI agent you just referred to, has anyone

else told you about witness testimony at this trial?

MR. HORTON: Objection. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Have you been following the NFSC's Twitter account of this

trial?

A. Can you please explain what it is. What is the full name?

Q. The New Federal State of China.

A. When?

Q. My question is: Have you followed the New Federal State of

China's Twitter posts?

A. No.

Q. Have you reviewed any of the transcripts of this trial?

A. I don't read too much English.

Q. Has anyone reported to you on their review of the

transcripts of this trial?

MR. HORTON: Objection. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: I'll allow the question.

A. No.

Q. Have the government lawyers been updating you on any of the

substance of this trial?

A. Which lawyer?

Q. Any of them.

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A. I don't know. I thought they are from the government.

MR. SCHIRICK: I think we may have lost audio, your

Honor.

THE COURT: If you'll just repeat the answer.

THE INTERPRETER: "I don't know. I thought they are

from the government."

MR. SCHIRICK: I'm sorry. Could I just have the

interpreter repeat it one more time.

THE INTERPRETER: "I don't know. I thought they are

from the government."

BY MR. SCHIRICK:

Q. Can you point to at counsel's table who you believe is from

the government.

A. These three. I met with them before.

Q. Okay. Have any of those people that you identified told

you anything about the substance of this trial up until today?

A. No.

Q. Okay. Now you've met with the government's lawyers in this

case eight times to prepare for your testimony today, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Eight times plus again this morning, correct?

A. I don't remember exactly how many times, but we——on the

video call was maybe two or three times.

Q. Okay. And when you met with them, you provided information

to them, correct?

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A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And when you met with them, they told you that you

had to tell them the truth, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And you did, right?

A. All I'm saying here is that I was cheated. That's all my

experience.

MR. SCHIRICK: Move to strike as nonresponsive, your

Honor.

MR. HORTON: Objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: Sustained. The answer is stricken.

Q. When you met with the government lawyers before today, you

told them the truth, correct?

A. All I'm saying is true.

Q. Okay. Ms. Li, you moved to the United States about 20

years ago, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And you testified on direct that you encountered Mr. Guo on

social media around 2017, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And that was on YouTube, correct?

A. In the beginning, also on YouTube.

Q. Okay. And I believe you testified on direct that you first

heard of Mr. Guo when he did an interview with Voice of

America, right?

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A. Yes.

Q. That interview was in April of 2017?

A. April 19.

Q. Thank you. But you first heard about the video in July of

2017; is that right?

A. No.

Q. When did you first hear about the Voice of America video?

A. It is April 19, 2017. You just said only 2017.

Q. Ms. Li, you were initially skeptical of Mr. Guo; is that

correct?

A. I didn't have feeling whatsoever.

Q. Didn't you tell the government that you thought that

wealthy, rich people in China must be related to the Chinese

government?

A. I didn't say that.

Q. Now did a point in time come when you joined a Discord

group to connect with the movement after seeing the Voice of

America interview?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And you testified on direct that you donated $6,000

to the Rule of Law Foundation; is that correct?

A. I don't recall the exact number, but I have receipts.

Q. Well, you donated——you donated money to the Rule of Law

Foundation, correct?

A. Yes, I donated money to Rule of Law Foundation.

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Q. And was it, in your view, a substantial amount of money?

A. Of course. That's a big——big amount.

Q. And in fact, did you tell the government that it was a

financial hardship to donate that amount of money?

A. This is not a one-time donation. I didn't say that.

Q. So let's talk about the total.

MR. HORTON: Is there a question pending?

THE COURT: Is there a question?

MR. SCHIRICK: I thought there was. But the question

is: With respect to the total amount of money that was donated

to the Rule of Law Foundation, what did——did the witness tell

the government that that was a financial hardship to donate

that amount.

MR. HORTON: Objection, form.

THE COURT: Sustained.

BY MR. SCHIRICK:

Q. Ms. Li, what's your best estimate of how much you donated

in total to the Rule of Law Foundation?

A. About 6,000.

Q. So if you——if we assume it was $6,000 that you donated, was

that——would you consider that a financial hardship to donate

that amount of money?

MR. HORTON: Objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: I'm going to allow the question.

A. So sorry. I just said earlier, this is——this is not the

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only donation that I——I put into.

THE COURT: You got your answer.

Q. Was there more than $6,000?

MR. HORTON: Objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: Sustained. Don't answer.

Q. Ms. Li, did you tell the government that your donation to

the Rule of Law Foundation was a financial hardship?

MR. HORTON: Objection, your Honor. Asked and

answered.

THE COURT: Sustained. Asked and answered. Don't ask

again.

Q. Now isn't it true that you were motivated to donate to the

Rule of Law Foundation in part because of the protests in Hong

Kong?

A. Yes.

Q. And you told the government that the students reminded you

of your child?

A. Yes.

Q. And when the government lawyer asked you what your

motivation for donating to the Rule of Law was on direct, you

didn't identify those motivations, did you?

A. Can you please explain.

Q. Government lawyer asked you earlier today what your

motivation was for donating to the Rule of Law Foundation,

right?

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A. So it's not a motivation. It was push by Miles Guo that

because he said he is going to donate $100 million and his

family is going to donate $1 billion to help, I want to donate

money as well to help those children in Hong Kong.

Q. I understand that that's the answer you gave earlier today.

MR. HORTON: Objection, your Honor.

Q. And my question now is——

THE COURT: Overruled.

Q. ——why, when you answered earlier today, you didn't identify

these other motivations that we just talked about.

A. What is the motivation?

Q. Happy to have the court reporter read it back. But I

believe you testified that part of your motivation was——

THE COURT: Perhaps it's the language that you're

using, counsel. Perhaps you might try a different word.

Q. One of the reasons that you donated to the Rule of Law

Foundation was because of the protests in Hong Kong and the

fact that the protesting students reminded you of your child,

correct?

MR. HORTON: Objection to form.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

A. Not exactly.

Q. So you're changing your answer from earlier?

MR. HORTON: Objection.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

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A. I don't understand what you're talking about.

Q. Are you having any trouble with the interpreter, ma'am?

A. I understand her, but please try to explain.

MR. SCHIRICK: I'll move on, your Honor.

Q. Ms. Li, I'd like to talk about your investment in GTV,

okay?

A. Yes.

Q. You heard about the opportunity to invest in GTV from Lude

Media, right?

A. I also saw it from Miles Guo.

MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, can we direct the witness

to answer the question, please.

MR. HORTON: Object to that, your Honor. She did

answer the question.

THE COURT: So try to limit your answer to the

question that is being asked. So for example, if the question

is "What is your favorite color?" and you answer "My favorite

color is blue," you don't then say, "My favorite dessert is ice

cream." Just stick to the question.

BY MR. SCHIRICK:

Q. So you first heard about the opportunity to invest in GTV

from a Lude Media broadcast online, right?

A. No.

Q. What is Lude Media?

A. So it is the earliest media that doing propaganda for Miles

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Guo, so it's his self-media.

MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, it's the same issue. It's

a nonresponsive answer.

MR. HORTON: Object to that, your Honor.

THE COURT: You'll step up.

(Continued on next page)

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(At the sidebar)

THE COURT: I don't know if she has a limitation as

far as understanding questions, or if she simply is resisting

questions. This is the witness. She has her way of answering.

And I have tried to get her to answer questions clearly, but I

don't know how far you can get with her.

Is there some instruction that you want me to give,

sir?

MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, I think if the witness

continues to give nonresponsive answers, I would ask the Court

to continue to give the instruction that she directly answer

questions. I think we've all heard that she either——for

perhaps either reason your Honor has articulated, whatever it

is, we're not getting responsive answers to the questions. She

had no problem with Mr. Horton on direct, but we're now having

all kinds of trouble on cross.

MR. HORTON: Well——

THE COURT: My goodness. I think she's rather

consistent.

MR. HORTON: If I could be heard.

MR. KAMARAJU: I just have one—-another option that

your Honor has already employed is that we may ask again to

move to strike testimony again if it's nonresponsive. Just

flagging that as another possibility.

THE COURT: Of course. That would perhaps refer to

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2/3 of her testimony.

MR. KAMARAJU: Okay, your Honor. She's not my

witness.

MR. HORTON: Your Honor did——for the record, the last

question answered, the last answer was responsive to

Mr. Schirick's question. He may not have liked the color that

she added, but the color was——her answer included her view on

his relationship with Miles Guo. That's a responsive answer,

even if it's not a favorable one.

MS. SHROFF: The added color is what makes it

nonresponsive.

MR. HORTON: The witness is not obligated to give you

a terse answer. She can say what the question calls for in her

mind that was responsive. Who is this person? That's a fair

response. That's a responsive answer.

THE COURT: So do you have an application?

MS. SHROFF: I think we'll move to strike the last

answer and we'll just see how it goes going forward, your

Honor.

THE COURT: So I just want to go back and review the

transcript to see whether I'm going to strike it or not.

MR. SCHIRICK: Thank you.

(Pause)

THE COURT: A member of my staff tells me that they

heard Juror No. 4 state that the interpreter has made some

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errors but they're not significant.

MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, our client did point out that

the interpreter had made some errors as well, but since in our

judgment the errors didn't——weren't significant, so to speak,

we didn't interrupt the proceedings. So——it's not

inconsistent.

THE COURT: I just wanted this to be on the record in

case anyone had something to say about it.

MR. KAMARAJU: I'm just curious, your Honor, and maybe

we have to ask, and don't know the answer to this, but did the

juror say this to another juror member?

THE COURT: No. The juror made the comment to a

member of my staff.

MR. KAMARAJU: Oh, okay. Understood. Understood.

MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, I think your Honor instructed

the jurors during voir dire that they are to use only the

translator, so we believe that has been addressed and there's

nothing further.

MR. KAMARAJU: We're fine, your Honor.

MS. SHROFF: We don't need another instruction, your

Honor. It's fine.

MR. KAMARAJU: Obviously we can take it up again if

there's an issue, but we're fine right now.

THE COURT: Okay.

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(In open court)

THE COURT: So the objection is sustained.

I want to remind the witness that if you're asked a

specific question, you must only answer that specific question.

THE WITNESS: Yes.

THE COURT: So if the attorney asks you "What day of

the week was yesterday?" and let us say your answer is

"Yesterday was Monday," you cannot add, "It was a sunny day" or

that it was raining. You must stick to the question.

Go ahead.

MR. SCHIRICK: And your Honor, the motion to strike?

THE COURT: The answer is stricken.

MR. SCHIRICK: Thank you, Judge.

BY MR. SCHIRICK:

Q. You first learned about the potential GTV investment in

April of 2020, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And I believe you testified on direct examination that you

watched Mr. Guo's videos all the time, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. You said five to six days a week, I believe,

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And you heard Mr. Guo talk about the GTV private placement

before you invested, right?

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A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Now I'm going to ask you about who you communicated

with directly, and what I mean by directly is one to one, okay?

A. Can you please explain.

Q. Directly means, in the way that I'm using it, to have a

direct conversation, a first-person conversation or

communication. Does that make sense?

A. You mean about investment?

Q. Generally. So when I say directly, I am excluding from my

question anything that you——anything that didn't include the

person you were communicating with in the one-on-one. Does

that make sense?

THE COURT: So are you saying that you want her to

exclude any group conversation?

MR. SCHIRICK: No, your Honor. Let's try it this way.

Q. You never spoke with Mr. Guo directly about your investment

before you made it, right?

A. Yes.

Q. You communicated with Sara Wei, correct?

A. About investment?

Q. Investment in GTV, yes.

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And Sara Wei was with VOG, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And she was a farm leader of the Phoenix farm, right?

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A. Yes.

Q. And you got all of your instructions for investing in GTV

from Sara Wei, right?

A. No.

MR. SCHIRICK: Can we please pull up what's in

evidence as VH7.

Q. Do you remember this document, Ms. Li?

A. This is the money, the check for the investment.

Q. What's the date of this check?

A. It is written April 12, but it was——it was wrong. It

should be May 12.

Q. Okay. But it says April 12th, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And you wrote this check, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And I believe you testified on direct that the name on this

check, Changfu Wang, is your husband, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And you sent this check to VOG, correct?

A. Well, Voice of Guo Media.

Q. And who told you where to send this check?

A. Miles Guo said if it's less than $100,000, that it's mailed

to Voice of Guo Media and that is in charge by Sara Wei.

Q. Who provided the address?

A. The address was sent by Lihong Wei.

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Q. Do you know someone by the name of Guo Bing?

A. Yes.

Q. Who is Guo Bing?

A. So Guo Bing is the person in charge to collect money for

Sara Wei, Lihong Wei.

Q. Okay. And Lihong Wei is Sara Wei.

A. Lihong Wei is Sara Wei.

Q. And Guo Bing worked for Sara Wei, correct?

A. This person worked for both Miles Guo and Sara Wei.

Q. Now I believe you testified that in addition to this

$10,000 check, you sent two $5,000 bank transfers; is that

right?

A. Yes.

Q. Were those sent before or after the check?

A. Before.

Q. And Sara Wei provided you with the account to transfer that

money to electronically, right?

A. I don't recall exactly. It was either Guo Bing or Sara

Wei, either one of them.

Q. Okay. And it was your understanding that Sara controlled

the account that you transferred this money to, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Isn't it true that you never participated in any

discussions between Mr. Guo and Sara Wei about your transfers

of money for the GTV investment?

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A. Can you please explain.

Q. You never had any discussions with——strike that.

Withdrawn.

You testified earlier that Sara Wei or Guo Bing were

the ones who provided you with the wire transfer information,

right?

A. Yes.

Q. And that the accounts that you transferred the money to

were controlled by Ms. Wei.

A. Yes.

Q. Mr. Guo didn't participate in any of those discussions with

Ms. Wei, correct?

A. Can you please——I don't quite understand your question.

THE COURT: So when you were communicating with Sara,

when you had contact with Sara, was Miles Guo part of that

contact, part of that conversation?

THE WITNESS: No.

Q. And you never heard Mr. Guo tell Ms. Wei where investors

should send money, right?

A. No.

Q. If Mr. Guo gave Ms. Wei any directions——withdrawn.

You don't know whether Sara Wei was following any

instructions that she got from Mr. Guo, correct?

THE COURT: One moment.

There just seems to be a noise coming from somewhere

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but it's not one that we control. We've asked the facilities

department to look into that. In the meantime, jurors, you can

hear the witness and the attorney?

THE JURORS: Yes.

THE COURT: I see they're saying yes, and so you may

go ahead.

MR. SCHIRICK: I believe there was a question pending,

your Honor?

THE COURT: Okay. So I'd like the reporter to please

read back the question.

(Record read)

A. So I know that the Miles Guo give the instructions to

receive that 2,000 shares for the shareholders, for the GTV

shareholders.

Q. Let's try it this way: You testified that you weren't

involved in any discussions between Mr. Guo and Ms. Wei,

correct?

MR. HORTON: Objection. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may continue.

What's the question?

MR. SCHIRICK: I believe the translator just

translated it.

THE COURT: No, no. You said "You testified," and

then you did not ask a question after that.

MR. SCHIRICK: Does the court reporter have a

1240

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question? I thought I asked a question, but perhaps I——

(Record read)

THE COURT: I didn't hear the "correct."

So yes, go ahead. You can answer that question.

A. No.

Q. No meaning you weren't involved, correct?

A. Participate in what?

Q. Conversations, ma'am, between Mr. Guo and Ms. Wei.

A. So on the livestreaming that Guo assigned that Wei to

collect the money.

MR. SCHIRICK: Move to strike as nonresponsive.

THE COURT: The answer is stricken. Move on.

Q. Any instructions Mr. Guo gave to Ms. Wei when you weren't a

party to the conversation, you have no idea if she followed

those instructions, right?

A. The way you asked me the question, I don't know how to

answer.

Q. Ma'am, are you understanding the interpreter okay?

THE COURT: The interpreter needs to pose that

question to the witness.

A. Yes.

Q. Mr. Guo didn't tell you what accounts to send money to,

right?

A. So he didn't tell me which account but he——

THE INTERPRETER: Excuse me. Sorry.

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A. So he said that in the livestreaming, he said for the

amount of money that's less than $100,000 that Lihong Wei will

collect for Voice of Guo Media.

Q. Did he give you account numbers, ma'am?

A. No.

Q. The only people who gave you account numbers were Sara Wei

or Guo Bing, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Now you testified earlier that you made a loan

through the Phoenix farm, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Between September and November of 2020, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And Sara Wei founded the Phoenix farm, correct?

A. It was Miles Guo that assigned her to establish the farm.

Q. She established the farm, correct?

THE INTERPRETER: Excuse me?

Q. She established the farm, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And Sara encouraged supporters to send money to her farm,

correct?

A. Can you please repeat.

Q. Sara Wei encouraged supporters to send money to the Phoenix

farm, correct?

A. Can I say something?

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THE COURT: Just answer the question.

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And in making the loan, you coordinated with Sara or

Guo Bing, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. On Discord, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Over email too?

A. Yes.

Q. And you followed Sara's instructions to make the loan,

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And you did what she told you to do, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And you didn't send any money to Miles Guo for the farm

loan, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And it was your understanding that the farm loan would

entitle you to both interest on the loan and GTV stock; is that

right?

A. Yes.

Q. And that understanding was based on a loan agreement that

you signed, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And you did sign a loan agreement with the Phoenix farm?

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A. I signed the agreement but they didn't sign it back.

Q. Did you review the loan agreement carefully before you sent

it?

A. I didn't review it carefully because I trust Miles Guo and

Sara Wei.

Q. Did you discuss it with your husband?

MR. HORTON: Objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

A. No.

Q. Where is that loan agreement?

A. Can you please repeat.

Q. Do you have any copy of the loan agreement?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you provide a copy of that agreement to the government?

A. What I provide to the government, I sent it through email

and also the regular mail.

Q. Okay. So just to clarify, your testimony is that you sent

your farm loan agreement, a copy of your farm loan agreement to

the government, correct?

A. I did send it.

Q. Now is the Phoenix farm identified as the borrower on your

farm loan agreement?

A. Let me think.

Q. Take your time.

A. Because it was a long time ago.

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I think it should be Phoenix farm. Oh, no, it's not.

No.

Q. Okay. Did there come a time when you learned that Mr. Guo

and Sara Wei had a falling-out?

A. Yes.

Q. And that was toward the end of 2020?

A. Yes.

Q. And do you know, was it your understanding that Ms. Wei was

accused of mishandling farm loan funds?

MR. HORTON: Object. Lack of foundation.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

A. Can you please repeat the question.

Q. Is it your understanding that Sara Wei was accused of

mishandling farm loan funds?

A. You mean from my understanding, right?

Q. Correct.

A. My understanding in the very beginning is Sara, Guo——Sara

Wei and Miles Guo, they are working together.

MR. SCHIRICK: Move to strike as nonresponsive, your

Honor.

THE COURT: The answer is stricken. Pay careful

attention to the question before you answer.

THE WITNESS: Okay.

Q. Was Sara——is it your understanding that Sara Wei was

accused of mishandling farm loan funds?

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A. Yes.

Q. And Mr. Guo was unhappy about that, right?

MR. HORTON: Objection.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer as to whether

you observed him unhappy.

A. I didn't observe that he was not happy.

Q. Ultimately, Sara Wei left the Phoenix farm, right?

A. That was a communication platform.

MR. SCHIRICK: I'm sorry. Could I just ask the

interpreter to repeat that.

THE INTERPRETER: "That was a communication platform."

THE COURT: "That was a communication platform."

That's the answer.

THE INTERPRETER: Yes.

BY MR. SCHIRICK:

Q. Did a point in time come when Ms. Wei was no longer

involved with the farms?

A. Because this is not what's going on.

MR. SCHIRICK: Move to strike, your Honor.

THE COURT: The answer is stricken.

Q. Same question: Did a time come when Sara Wei was no longer

involved with the farms?

A. She had been participating in the matter.

MR. SCHIRICK: Move to strike, your Honor.

THE COURT: The answer is stricken.

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Q. Were many people upset with Sara Wei at the end of 2020?

MR. HORTON: Objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: One moment.

You can state whether you observed other people upset

with Sara Wei.

A. When the farm was dismissed.

Q. So is that yes, people were upset with Sara Wei when the

farm was dismissed?

A. It's not that they are upset, because they want money.

Q. And Sara didn't give it to them, right?

A. I'm not sure. They didn't——she didn't give me the money.

Q. And you were upset with her, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And a lot of people were upset with her, right?

A. That's right.

Q. Okay. Now you testified on direct about some protests that

you were involved in, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And there was a protest in Texas, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And there was a protest in Hawaii, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And there was a protest in Los Angeles, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And you participated in each of these protests, right?

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A. Yes.

Q. The protest in Texas, you understood that the movement was

protesting a person named Bob Fu, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Sometimes called Pastor Fu, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And at the time you believed that Fu was a CCP operative,

right?

A. No.

Q. At the time you did not believe that pastor Fu was a CCP

operative?

MR. HORTON: Objection. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Sustained. Don't translate the question.

The objection is sustained.

Q. Why did you go?

A. Miles Guo said he was the CCP's spy.

Q. But you didn't believe that?

A. Whatever he said at that time, I believed him.

Q. Didn't you just testify that you didn't believe that Pastor

Fu was a CCP spy?

A. What you just asked me earlier is not what that meant.

Q. Ma'am, which is it? Did you believe he was a spy when you

participated in the protest or not?

A. So Miles Guo took out that he holds like a law permit at

CCP and to tell us that he was the spy.

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O641GUO4 Li - Cross

MR. SCHIRICK: Move to strike, your Honor.

THE COURT: The answer is stricken.

Q. Ma'am, my question is: What did you believe?

A. I believed what Miles Guo said at that time.

Q. Okay. And the protest against Bob Fu took place around

October of 2020, right?

A. Yes.

Q. In Texas.

A. Yes.

Q. And you went there to protest for the people from the

Phoenix farm, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And in Texas, Sara Wei led that protest, correct?

A. I don't know how to answer this question.

Q. Who that was in Texas was the leader of the protest?

A. There were three people.

Q. Three people in Texas?

A. Three person that direct the protest.

Q. Again, in Texas?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Who were those three people?

A. It's "Long Island" and also "Texas Cowboy." I don't know

the exact name.

Weng Lai (ph) is also called Teng Fung Chin (ph).

Ocean, Chen Qi Shen (ph).

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O641GUO4

Q. I believe that was more than three people, correct?

A. The way you ask——please wait. The way you ask——please

wait. Let me think.

Q. Of course.

A. So Miles Guo said on GTV that we send 20 people, and Bob Fu

said that we need to send more people.

MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, move to strike.

THE COURT: The answer is stricken.

You just said that there were some people who were

leaders. Is there a number of people? Can you tell us the

number of leaders.

THE WITNESS: Yes. Three or four.

BY MR. SCHIRICK:

Q. In Texas.

A. Yes.

Q. I got Sara Wei, I got Long Island David, and I got Texas

Cowboy; am I right so far?

A. So Texas Cowboy, Chen Qi Shen, Sher Wang Wong (ph). That's

all I know.

THE COURT: Very well.

MR. SCHIRICK: Was there——

THE COURT: We have come to the end of our work today.

Members of the jury, you'll return to court tomorrow

as usual, ready to come into the courtroom at 9:30. Remember,

do not discuss the case amongst yourselves, don't permit others

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O641GUO4

to discuss it in your presence, don't read, watch, listen to

anything concerning this case from any source. Have a good

evening.

(Jury not present)

THE COURT: Ma'am, you must return to court tomorrow

to be ready to walk into the courtroom by 9:29. Do not discuss

the case. You are excused.

You may step out.

(Witness not present)

THE COURT: You may be seated.

Do the parties have anything before we stop for today?

MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, just a question for defense

counsel, Mr. Schirick. Just approximately how much time do

they believe they have left on cross with Ms. Li, so we can

evaluate scheduling and things like that.

MR. SCHIRICK: That's a tough one, your Honor. It

certainly depends in large part on the witness. I would say I

probably have at least, you know, another hour, hour and a

half. And we'll confer and get back to the government on this.

THE COURT: Confer. That's a good idea.

MR. SCHIRICK: Certainly.

MR. FINKEL: I'm sorry. Did I hear an hour, hour and

a half?

THE COURT: That's what he said.

MR. FINKEL: Okay.

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THE COURT: Anything further?

MR. KAMARAJU: Just one brief thing, your Honor. I

don't believe we received production of a farm loan agreement

for the witness which the witness testified she provided to the

government, so we'd just ask for production of that.

THE COURT: Did she turn over a farm loan agreement to

the government?

MR. FINKEL: So, your Honor, sitting here today, I

don't know. What I do know is what we received from her, we

produced. We'll double-check, make sure everything was

provided. It's possible she sent it to a different government

agency, like HSI, Homeland Security, or the SEC. We don't

know. But if we have it, we'll produce it.

MR. KAMARAJU: Thank you.

THE COURT: Very well. Thank you.

(Adjourned to June 5, 2024, at 9:00 a.m.)

1252

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INDEX OF EXAMINATION

Examination of

Pag

SHAMEL MEDRANO

1137Cross By Mr. Schirick . . . . . . . . . . . .

1143Redirect By Mr. Fergenson . . . . . . . . . .

1156Recross By Mr. Schirick . . . . . . . . . . .

JENNY LI

1159Direct By Mr. Horton . . . . . . . . . . . . .

1219Cross By Mr. Schirick . . . . . . . . . . . .

GOVERNMENT EXHIBITS

Exhibit No. Received

1145 GXW1012 and GXW1012-V . . . . . . . . . . .

1182 VI191, VI192 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

VH7 1174 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

VH8 1172 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

VH9 1178 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

120 1175 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Translated Text(简体中文翻译)

【中文翻译 仅供参考】             
O64VGUO1  2024-6-4 庭审记录    第 1 / 85页 
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. 
(212) 805-0300 
美国纽约南区法院 
-------------------------------------------------------x 
美国政府
控方    23 Cr. 118 (AT) 
郭文贵 
辩方
-------------------------------------------------------x 
                    纽约州纽约市， 
                    2024 年 6 月 04 日 
                   上午 9:00 
  
庭前:
尊敬的阿娜丽莎-托雷斯法官大人
地区法官
-陪审团-
出庭律师:
 
达米安-威廉姆斯 
           纽约南区美国联邦检察官 
代表：迈卡·F·费根森 
           瑞安·B·芬克 
           贾斯廷·霍顿 
           朱莉安娜·N·莫里 
           助理美国检察官 
萨布丽娜·P·施洛夫 
           被告律师 
PRYOR CASHMAN LLP 
           被告律师

【中文翻译 仅供参考】             
O64VGUO1  2024-6-4 庭审记录    第 2 / 85页 
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. 
(212) 805-0300 
代表：西德哈达·卡马拉珠 
           马修·巴肯 
 
ALSTON & BIRD LLP 
           被告律师 
代表：E·斯科特·舒里克 
 
出席人员： 
伊莎贝尔·洛夫特斯，法律助理，美国检察官办公室 
迈克尔·加特兰，法律助理，美国检察官办公室 
杰弗里·米尔恩斯，法律助理，美国检察官办公室 
罗伯特·斯托特，联邦调查局特工 
鲁本·蒙蒂利亚，辩方律师助理 
黄拓，普通话翻译 
石峰，普通话翻译 
唐玉马克，普通话翻译 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
(法庭再次开庭，陪审团不在场) 
法官说：早上好。请介绍你们自己。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】             
O64VGUO1  2024-6-4 庭审记录    第 3 / 85页 
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. 
(212) 805-0300 
费根森律师说：早上好，法官大人。麦卡·费根森、莱恩·芬克、朱莉安娜·莫里代表政府。
贾斯汀·霍顿应该很快就会加入我们，法官大人。  
舒里克律师说：早上好，法官大人。斯科特·舒里克、萨布丽娜·施洛夫、西德·卡马拉珠，
代表郭先生，和郭先生一起在律师席。  
法官说：请坐下。关于辩护方希望承认的材料部分，你们达成协议了吗？  
舒里克律师说：当然。很高兴处理这个问题，法官大人。 
我认为我们决定只继续使用政府已经提交为证据的证物。  
法官说：好。还有其他问题要提吗？  
芬克律师说：没有特别的问题，法官大人，只是有一个事务性问题要提醒法庭。 
在梅德拉诺先生之后，政府将传唤一名证人，她将就三段录音作证，其中一段是视
频，两段是音频。视频是普通话的，我们还在讨论翻译的条款。我们希望能就此达成协议。
我们的建议是，我们将提供该证物。我们相信，证人将能够对其进行认证；这是郭先生的
讲话，因此可以采纳。我们会播放给陪审团听，并说明稍后会进行翻译。如果我们不能就
此达成一致，我们将请一位专家就其翻译作证。 
关于两段录音，证人只是要对其进行认证；我们目前并不寻求采纳这两段录音。这
两段录音是郭先生在 Discord 上的聊天记录，内容与我们指控的阴谋有关。我们只是想对
它们进行认证。 
如果辩方对认证有异议，请在此时提出，因为这位证人可以对这些文件进行认证；
但我们稍后会在拿到译文后接受这些文件。 
  
舒里克律师说：法官大人 我觉得芬克先生刚才的提议有几个问题。 
一个是我们不知道政府打算通过这位证人提出的视频证据的基础是什么，这是一个
问题。 
第二个问题是，在没有翻译的情况下，我不知道我们应该如何就视频对证人进行交
叉询问。因此，我认为政府提出的操作顺序并不可行。你知道，我们会处理任何有
关音频文件认证的问题，你知道，我们昨晚刚收到这些文件。所以这一切都很晚才

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发生。辩方仍在审查政府昨晚发来的文件 所以我们会把我们在认证方面的任何问
题反馈回来 
芬克律师说：简短回应，法官大人。针对这段视频，我们是在本周末拿到的；周一
我们拿到了翻译件。翻译好后，我们就发给了辩方。这样他们就有了译文，他们就可以自
由地 -- 这是一段两分钟的视频。他们可以自由地使用译文交叉询问证人。 
但无论如何，这只是郭先生的陈述，而不是证人的陈述。因此，除了她对郭先生证
词的解释之外，我真的不知道证人能对郭先生的证词说些什么。他们可以根据我们的翻译
对她进行询问，说白了，如果他们同意--他们不必同意，我们也理解--我们可以继续翻译。
但就是这位证人可以把视频放进去，所以这就是我们现在的情况。 
法官说：但是我听到他们在询问视频的认证问题；我说得对吗？  
  
芬克律师说：因此，在认证方面，我们相信这位证人能够进行认证。例如，她在郭
先生的油管页面上看到了这段视频。这是他的油管账户，郭先生的油管账户。油管 上有
该视频的图片和截屏。我们相信，她将能够讨论，那是郭先生的用户名，她认出了那段视
频，她是在视频发布前后看到的，据我所知是在 2019 年。 
郭先生在视频中说，他将向法治基金和法治协会捐赠 1亿美元。我们认为，这对该
受害者和其他受害者来说是实质性的。 
法官说：辩护方是否质疑视频的翻译？  
舒里克律师说：法官大人，我们昨晚刚收到政府的翻译件，还没有机会评估。因此，
这是第一个问题。  
法官说：好的，你是说你需要更多时间。  
舒里克律师说：对，法官大人。如果可以，我还想提出两个关于视频的其他问题。 
一个是我们认为政府打算提供的视频可能是一个更长视频的片段。因此，这也是我
们昨天遇到的同样的问题，你知道，为了完整起见，为了上下文起见，我们有机会审查完
整的视频。即使我们接受了政府的翻译，我们也没有机会这样做。 
第三点，法官大人，还是回到实际问题上来。我们应该如何--让我倒回去。我们的
理解是，芬克先生所指的证人将在今天上午晚些时候通过翻译以普通话作证。因此，我们

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应该如何交叉询问一位以普通话作证的证人，而我们又没有就普通话的翻译达成一致规定，
我只是不知道这该如何进行。 
法官说：你是指证词的翻译吗？  
舒里克律师说：不，法官大人，是视频本身的翻译。  
法官说：好的。 
首先，你们有完整视频吗？  
芬克律师说：没有，我们不打算提供完整视频。  
法官说：但那不是我的问题。  
芬克律师说：意思是我是否有完整视频吗？  
法官说：是的。  
芬克律师说：我相信我没有，但我相信在油管页面上有。我不确定，也不想歪曲事
实。如果我们有--也许我们有--我们会提供的。无论如何，我相信我们都能让他们在油管
网页上找到。 
法官大人，我只想说明一点 政府很乐意给辩方更多时间考虑译文，但这位证人将
证明视频的真实性。除了那段视频之外，她还将证明郭先生在视频中说他将捐赠一亿美元。
因此，我们认为这可以作为证据。 
关于完整性规则问题上的及时性，我们不会以及时性为由提出反对--我们可能会以
其他理由提出反对。但这没有问题。我们尽快提供了这份译文，但我们知道他们需要一些
时间。这没问题。 
法官说：所以如果今天证人出现，他们还没有解决视频和音频录音翻译的问题，我
假设你会让证人留到明天，是吗？  
芬克律师说：法官大人，这名证人来自另一个州。她是受害者。我们可以考虑这样
做。但我认为，法官大人，我恭敬地建议，她将就她的理解作证，他们可以根据我们提供
的翻译与她交叉作证。

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至于视频本身，视频本身已经说明了问题。我认为唯一的问题是 106 -- 105，不好
意思，完整性规则问题，如果他们想从他的油管页面上更长的视频中寻求证据，我们可以
在下一步处理这个问题。我们不会就及时性提出异议。 
法官说：所以证人在证人席上时，你打算引入视频吗？  
芬克律师说：是的，法治基金的视频。我们不会引入其他两段音频录音，我们将会
认证。我们还没有这些录音的翻译，因此认为这是不同的类别。  
法官说：所以你会播放视频，没有翻译，郭先生会用中文讲话，然后你会问她理解
他在说什么吗？  
芬克律师说：我认为我们可以反过来处理这个问题；就是说她会认证这个——她会
——受害者，是否当时，郭先生曾经说过，他会捐赠 1亿美元，用一种不那么引导的方式。 
  
 
是的。 
你是怎么知道的？ 
我在油管视频上看到的。 
你对他说的内容有什么理解？ 
她会作证。 
然后我们会引入，你知道，你能认证这个视频片段吗？ 
是的。 
这是什么？ 
这是他在视频中说的内容。 
政府提交。我们认为这是一个合适的基础，并且作为被告的陈述是相关且可接受的。
我们可以播放它。我们会告诉陪审团——并且我们请求法官大人告诉陪审团，翻译
会在审判稍后提供。 
如果双方无法达成协议，我们将让专家出庭作证翻译。无论如何，会有翻译。因此，
我认为这是我们处理该视频的建议方式。

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对于音频记录，我们没有翻译。她会作证她对事件的回忆，并会认证这些录音。但
我们目前不会提交这些录音。  
舒里克律师说：法官大人，最后一点。 
即使芬克先生提出的方案也没有解决根本问题，即我们今天早上在法庭上，仍然无
法就视频或视频的任何方面对证人进行交叉询问，因为我们没有翻译。 
芬克律师说：他们有翻译。我们星期一下午得到翻译后立即发送了。大约 5点。我
认为我们在审判日结束后就发了。这是一个两分钟的视频，翻译大约一页或一页半。以及
他们可以使用翻译。  
舒里克律师说：法官大人，我记得大约是昨晚午夜收到的。你们可以纠正我，如果
我错了，有很多邮件往来。  
芬克律师说：那不对。 
是在庭审结束之后；我不记得确切时间。可能是 6点左右，我不确定，但不是午夜。 
法官说：好的。 
请检查你们的邮件。  
芬克律师说：好的。 
舒里克律师说：法官大人，再次关于剪辑问题，除非这位证人作证说她负责剪辑了
政府试图引入的部分，否则政府如何从他们所说的发布在油管上的视频到剪辑，仍然缺少
一个环节，同样，我们也没有机会对这些环节进行评估。 
芬克律师说：法官大人，那是不正确的。她需要奠定认证基础。如果证人说--而这
只需要证人说某件事是其声称的那样就可以了。如果证人说这是她在郭先生的油管页面上
看到的一段视频或视频片段--法官大人可以查看这段视频，郭先生正在讲话，这也是分析
视频是否通过真实性门槛的一部分--那么这段视频就是真实的，至少陪审团可以考虑其分
量。如果他们想攻击剪辑方面，他们可以自由地这样做，但这将影响其权重，而不是其可
采性。

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因此，法官大人，如果他们想质疑她对视频的理解，视频就应该出现在法庭上。他
们有这样做的自由。他们有她的 3500 号文件，其中她解释了这是什么。这并不奇怪，而
且他们还有这段视频的翻译。 
法官说：你有邮件吗？  
芬克律师说：好的，法官大人，我们昨天上午 11:57发送了一份翻译草稿。我们在
昨天晚上 5:30发送了认证标记的翻译——可能有一些外观上的差异。  
法官说：好，这段时间足够你们审查翻译件。  
舒里克律师说：法官大人，我认为——恕我直言，考虑到政府在庭审期间和庭审结
束后发送的大量电子邮件和更新，我不认为我们有足够的时间让外部翻译服务检查政府的
翻译并进行评估，因为我们昨天在庭审期间第一次收到这个视频。  
法官说：好的。作为一名诉讼律师，你必须灵活应对，能够迅速评估这些材料。 
他们提出的审查时间并不过分。我一向认为这些材料应尽快移交给辩方，以便辩方
有机会评估。我认为在这种情况下，你们已经有了足够的时间。  
施洛夫律师说：法官大人，实际上，我们无法以这种方式获得文件或翻译件的口译
员。为法庭翻译的口译员不被允许翻译文件；我们之前已经确认过这一点。除此之外，我
们的资源非常有限。而且，正如我们多次告诉政府的那样，他们发送电子邮件的方式无法
送达——对不起——无法送达舒里克先生。无论他们发送到哪个电子邮件地址——我相信
昨天我已经向政府说明了这一点——他都收不到电子邮件。 
所以我认为从他们发送邮件给我们到施里克先生没有收到邮件之间存在时间差，他
们知道这些邮件被退回。我相信我是那个回邮件的人，我说你必须在邮件中包括他，但我
不知道邮件链是怎么回事。但我可以告诉法庭，我们没有政府所说的这种轻松获得口译员
的途径。所以我想——我想纠正这一点，法官大人。 
我记得我在几天前联系了法院口译员，看看他们是否可以为我们翻译一些文件。他
们联系了口译员办公室，被告知不能翻译。 
所以我们正在努力安排人员进行翻译工作。即使是下午 5:30 收到的，我们在凌晨
1点至少还收到了七份其他文件——我认为是凌晨 1点。我们在凌晨 1点收到了政府的证

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物；我们在凌晨 1点收到了 3500 材料，所有这些都需要 USAfx下载。我知道时间，因为
是我下载的。 
所以我恳请法庭至少让我们休息一下，因为我们无法完成法庭认为我们应该能够完
成的工作。当然，我们会尽力做得更好；我们会尽力安排人员。我已经联系了相关人员。
但昨天我们没有这个渠道。 
法官说：你是被聘请的，对吗？  
施洛夫律师说：是的，法官大人。我们是被聘请的，但我们没有——我们没有像马
尾藻海那样广泛的资源。我们有一些人在尽最大努力帮助我们。我只是想确保政府——对
不起——确保法庭了解我们仅在翻译方面收到的信息流量。我不是在谈论韦伯先生提供给
我们的 3500 材料或英语证人。那不是我要说的。我可以应付那些。但我无法应付周末找
不到口译员陪我去监狱的情况。长周末期间，我找不到人能去。 
所以我们在挣扎。这不仅仅是钱的问题。人们必须同意来帮助我们。 
芬克律师说：简短的两点，法官大人。 
首先，政府希望与辩护方合作，坦率地说，在翻译问题和协议上一直合作得很好。
我们希望继续这样做。这是第一点。 
第二，我不打算讨论谁收到了邮件的问题。  
法官说：但这很重要。  
芬克律师说：那么，我很乐意。 
我们确实把翻译发给了舒里克先生；他在邮件列表中。我们被告知实际上要将所有
邮件发送到 Pryor Cashman 设立的名为“郭团队”的邮件列表。我们理解这是“郭团队”。所
以我们一直在这些分发中包括他们；并且在 5:57 时包括他们在分发中。我将会确认这一
点。 
我还可以告诉法庭，在我提交后——我在 5:57 发送了邮件，那是标记的认证版本，
不只是草稿。我与巴坎先生进行了来回沟通。巴坎先生用自动翻译服务检查了翻译——它
不是很长——我没有听到他对其有任何实质性的反对意见。

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尽管如此，法官大人，政府并不反对给予辩方适当的时间来更快速、更全面地听取
那个视频。他们显然有他们的客户在场，客户在视频中说话，可以向他们解释。这没有问
题。这就是我们的立场。 
基本上，这名证人是可以认证该视频的证人。该视频对她来说是重要的。她将向陪
审团讲述这一点。因此，我们认为这是一个合适的证据展示。如果他们想引入更长录音的
其他部分，我们不会在时间上提出反对。我们可能会在其他方面提出反对，但我们可以稍
后再处理。 
法官说：关于舒里克律师先生邮件弹回的说法呢？  
芬克律师说：法官大人，这封邮件直接发送给舒里克律师先生。我不相信它弹回了。
就在那里。这是他在 Alston的电子邮件地址。有，我认为，有大约 12名不同的律师在辩
护团队工作，也许少一些，也许有些是法律助理，我不确定，但有一个大团队。我们被告
知要发送邮件到 Pryor Cashman 的郭团队邮件地址，这包括了所有人。我们一直在努力
这样做。有时会有不同律师的连续邮件。  
法官说：那么问题是，舒里克律师先生，你在���们声称你收到邮件的时间收到邮件
了吗？  
舒里克律师说：老实说，法官大人，我得看看。我一直在手机上尝试，但政府发送
的大量邮件让我很难确认这一点。  
法官说：好的。请查看一下。  
舒里克律师说：好的。  
施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我还想说，政府知道郭团队邮件对舒里克律师先生或我
不起作用；我们不是 Pryor Cashman 律师事务所的一部分。政府多次注意到这些邮件弹
回。 
作为回应，我发了一封邮件说：舒里克律师先生需要单独添加。我添加了他。我不
是只说这封邮件，我是说一般情况下。我反复——不，我没有反复。我告诉那些不在
Pryor Cashman的律师。我告诉政府郭团队的邮件对 Pryor Cashman律所以外的人不工

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作。把这个放一边。我想告诉法庭，我们昨晚没有任何口译员可以为我们翻译。这是我的
意思。如果政府认为——此外，我不确定——  
法官说：施洛夫女士，你应该聘请一个口译员，这样他们可以持续为你服务。  
施洛夫律师说：他们确实在翻译不断涌入的其他文件。我昨天真的没有注意到
5:27 的邮件，如果有人能检查一下就好了。但我认为那封邮件没有说我们计划在明天引
入这个证物，所以请立即关注。老实说，因为邮件流量太大，我认为没有人注意到这一点。
我不认为邮件里说了任何关于明天使用这个证物的事情。而且我们有不止一个人在帮助我
们翻译。人们不想全天候工作。他们没有兴趣。我们的资源有限。我们试图聘请一个会说
这种语言的律师，即使那个人也只在有限的时间工作。 
如果法官大人允许，我愿意在单独会谈中分享这些来回邮件，说明我们让那些人翻
译了哪些其他东西。 
法官说：舒里克律师先生。  
舒里克律师说：是的。谢谢你，法官大人。  
法官说：你收到邮件了吗？  
舒里克律师说：事实上，我收到了邮件。我只是想补充一点，至少对我来说不清楚
邮件的意思是它会在明天使用。  
法官说：好吧。现在政府知道你们在翻译方面遇到的困难。今后，政府将在邮件中
指出需要翻译的附件，因为他们打算在证人作证时使用。  
芬克律师说：法官大人，是的。实际上，11:57 的邮件是建议的翻译和证明。5:57
的邮件，是标记的版本，写的是：请告知我们你是否同意附件翻译的准确性或有任何修改
意见。我们可能会在明天，也就是今天，提供这个视频。  
法官说：所以我认为你不能对检方要求更多了。他们已经通知你们他们打算引入某
些证据。他们已经通知你们需要检查翻译，看你们是否会同意并达成翻译协议。你们还想
要什么？  
舒里克律师说：法官大人，这只是施洛夫女士的观点：我们正在集中讨论这一封特
定的电子邮件和这一个特定的文件。但我们可以向法庭说明，我认为双方不会对以下事实

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有任何争议，即不仅是 3500 材料，还有额外的证物，此外，证人名单几乎每天都在变化，
你知道，从政府在周六的电子邮件中首次告诉辩方他们计划传唤的证人名单来看，我认为
上周这个名单几乎每天都在变化。 
所以，为了给法庭提供一些背景信息，你知道，这不仅仅是关于这一封特定的电子
邮件——显然，这就是我们现在讨论这个问题的原因，因为证人今天要作证。但辩方正在
处理大量从检方涌入的信息，既有顺序上的变化，也有证物上的变化。而且，当你再加上
翻译问题，这经常是情况的一部分，这使得在最后一刻处理这些问题变得非常困难。我们
只是想向法庭提供这个背景。 
法官说：我认为曼哈顿的大多数律师都会同意，你的团队里有一些最优秀的辩护律
师。也许你需要增加一些人手以应对涌向你的大量信息。  
施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我们已经尝试找到会说这种语言的人。再次强调，我愿
意边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场会议讨论时向法庭展示。但我可以向您保证，如
果我们有足够的人力，我们不会不检查翻译。再次说明，我没有实质性地查看 5:30 的邮
件。那可能是我的错误。 
但我可以向您保证，我们有不止一个双语技能的人在帮助我们，但我不确定能否找
到更多人，但我会尽力尝试。我有另一位译员，她一直在外旅行，希望她能回来并投入工
作，我们会努力做得更好。 
但对于今天的证人，我们的情况就是这样，我真的不确定还有什么其他办法可以解
决这个问题。 
法官说：所以现在的问题是你们什么时候会审查关于视频的翻译？ 
芬克先生，你提议他们在你传唤证人之前进行这项工作吗？ 
芬克律师说：法官大人，我们对此没有异议。如果他们现在想花时间，当然是法官
的特权。如果他们现在想花时间，政府没有异议，这没问题。我们今天可以稍微推迟开始，
这没问题。如果他们想等到梅德拉诺先生之后再审查，也可以。我们可以在梅德拉诺先生
之后给陪审团一个间断。政府两种方式都可以。  
法官说：舒里克律师先生，你有什么要说的吗？

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舒里克律师说：辩护方希望，如果所有情况都一样，在梅德拉诺先生之后休息一下。
我们希望今天上午稍晚能得到翻译，也许在中午左右。  
法官说：很好。 
在我让陪审员进来之前，还有什么事情吗？  
施洛夫律师说：法官大人，有一个很小的问题。 
是否可以让人们坐在旁边的第三排？我得知有些人想要一个座位，但没有更多的溢
出座位了。所以我被要求向法庭提出这个请求，我只是问一下，就这样。 
法官说：我会考虑，但现在没有答案。  
施洛夫律师说：好的，法官大人。  
法官说：请让陪审员进来。  
施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我可以出去吗？我要去找口译员。  
法官说：我正在让陪审员进来。  
施洛夫律师说：好的。  
 
（陪审团到场）  
 
法官说：请让证人重新上证人席。请坐下。 
早上好，陪审员们。  
陪审团说：早上好。  
法官说：早上好。  
证人说：早上好。  
法官说：记住你在宣誓下作证。请继续交叉询问。  
舒里克律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。  
沙梅尔·梅德拉诺， 
由政府传唤，之前已宣誓，作如下证词：  
（交叉询问继续进行）  
舒里克律师说：梅德拉诺先生，抱歉，感谢你今早——

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梅德拉诺先生说：没问题。  
舒里克律师说：——今天上午。我相信昨天审判结束时，我们在观看一个视频。我会带你
回到稍早一点的内容，以便每个人都能理解上下文，从最重要的方面，包括梅德拉诺先生。  
舒里克律师说：如果我们可以请调出政府证物 C-63-T。   
舒里克律师说：梅德拉诺先生——对不起。我道歉。 
让我们先查看政府证物 Z-9 的第 6页。抱歉。  
舒里克律师说：好的。梅德拉诺先生，你记得昨天作证时提到的证据中的总结图表，即政
府证物 Z-9，对吗？  
梅德拉诺先生说：对的。  
舒里克律师说：你记得作证时提到的这个特别条目，日期是 2020 年 6 月 2 日吗？  
梅德拉诺先生说：是的，我记得。  
舒里克律师说：你看到这里所选内容的来源是政府证物 C-63 吗？  
梅德拉诺先生说：是的。  
舒里克律师说：好的。现在如果我们可以请调出政府证物 63-T。  
费根森律师说：法官大人，那不在证据中。  
法官说：我书里没有这个。 
你能指一下页面吗？  
舒里克律师说：63-T 不在书里，法官大人。如果我能和费根森律师先生稍微谈一
下。  
法官说：好的。  
（边栏会议讨论）  
费根森律师说：抱歉，法官大人。这不是我提供的，是之前穆雷女士提供的。是我
的错误。  
它在证据中。  
法官说：在书里吗？

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舒里克律师说：不，法官大人。我相信法庭和陪审团只有总结图表，即 Z-9。这是
基础文件，是一份我们会展示给所有人的抄本。  
法官说：谢谢。继续。  
舒里克律师说：现在如果我们可以请调出 63-T。谢谢。  
舒里克律师说：梅德拉诺先生，这个文件是刚才我们看过的图表条目的来源文件之一，对
吗？  
梅德拉诺先生说：对的。  
舒里克律师说：好的。如果我们可以请看这份文件的第 5页。  
舒里克律师说：梅德拉诺先生，你熟悉所谓的 NFSC 吗？  
梅德拉诺先生说：我不熟悉。  
舒里克律师说：好的。如果我们关注图表中时间标记为 7:09 的条目。你看到底部了吗？  
梅德拉诺先生说：看到了。  
舒里克律师说：我会从底部开始读，请你告诉我是否正确。 “现在在美国，一些与共产党
勾结的人，共产党派出的特工、间谍、利益相关者，完全无视美国的法律，正在强烈攻击
我们所有的媒体。”  
舒里克律师说：对不起，我想屏幕上没有了。如果我们可以——  
法官说：稍等一下，请。 
加西亚先生，请过来一下。继续。  
舒里克律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 
如果我们可以继续展示给陪审团看的下一段内容。  
“所以，我亲爱的战友们，可以说，从我们整个媒体平台和爆料革命的战友们，数亿战友
的努力唤醒了世界。 “同时，我们已经建立起来，并且成为了共产党最害怕的敌人和他
们最害怕的团体。这包括共产党花费 40 亿美元来阻止、阻挠；黑客试图阻止我们明天，
也就是纽约时间 6 月 3 日下午 7 点举行的新中国联邦成立宣言的仪式，以及后天，6 月 4
日中午 12 点之前。 
“现在，这 40亿美元已经看到初步成果，社交媒体——推特、油管、脸书和其他主
要媒体，包括黑客攻击，已经达到了前所未有的军事级别。

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“然而，我相信，这不会阻止我们的战友们对自由的向往，对尊严的追求，拥有一
个没有恐惧的家庭，过上安全、幸福的生活。”  
我读得对吗，梅德拉诺先生？  
梅德拉诺先生说：对的。  
法官说：稍等一下，请继续。  
舒里克律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。  
舒里克律师说：梅德拉诺先生，我刚读的那段摘录不在你制作的总结图表中，对吗？  
梅德拉诺先生说：不，我认为没有。  
舒里克律师说：好的，谢谢。  
舒里克律师说：现在，如果我们可以请播放昨天审判结束时观看的包含班农先生的
视频。我们不会重放整个视频，只会从昨天结束前的 15 秒左右开始，以便提供上下文。
但为了记录，这是政府证物W1005-B，已在证据中。  
（播放视频）  
舒里克律师说：谢谢。  
舒里克律师说：梅德拉诺先生，请你翻到政府证物 Z-11，我们应该有一份硬拷贝。  
梅德拉诺先生说：我没有那份硬拷贝。  
舒里克律师说：我可以走近吗，法官大人？  
法官说：可以。  
舒里克律师说：梅德拉诺先生，我们刚才在视频中听到的那段话不在你的总结图表中，对
吗？  
梅德拉诺先生说：它不在总结图表中。  
舒里克律师说：你同意我刚才听到和看到的那段话实际上是在总结图表上的第一条和第二
条之间吗？  
梅德拉诺先生说：我不知道这个视频是什么时候播放的。如果你——  
舒里克律师说：好的。我们很乐意再播放一次以提供上下文。

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梅德拉诺先生说：不，不，我明白。我是说总结图表上的第一段标记为 1:16:15；下一段
是 1:23:34。你刚才播放的，我不确定是什么时候的，所以我无法说它是否在中间播放。  
舒里克律师说：好的。我向你保证，我们刚才看的内容是从 1:23:10 开始，到 1:23:44 结
束。  
梅德拉诺先生说：明白了。好的。  
舒里克律师说：所以你同意我们刚才看到的内容是在图表上的第一条和第二条之间吗？  
 梅德拉诺先生说：是的。  
舒里克律师说：好的。班农先生在我们刚才看的片段中没有提到法治基金，对吗？  
梅德拉诺先生说：在我们刚才看的片段中吗？  
舒里克律师说：对的。  
梅德拉诺先生说：我不记得听到那段话。  
舒里克律师说：班农先��在那个片段中没有提到任何关于向任何基金捐赠 1亿美元的事，
对吗？  
梅德拉诺先生说：我不记得听到那段话，没有。  
舒里克律师说：你记得昨天——  
法官说：梅德拉诺先生，请对着麦克风讲话。  
证人说：对不起，法官大人。 
问：你记得昨天我问过你关于证物左上角显示的水印“郭媒体”吗？  
答：记得。  
问：你不知道郭先生是否用他自己的钱资助了郭媒体的活动，是吗？  
答：我不知道。  
舒里克律师说：目前没有进一步的问题。  
法官说：重新直接询问。  
费根森律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。  
费根森律师重新直接询问：  
问：梅德拉诺先生，再次早上好。

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答：早上好。  
问：你被问到关于郭先生对中共的陈述的问题，你记得吗？  
答：记得。  
费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果可以，请展示第二条协议。政府证物第二条协
议。  
问：梅德拉诺先生，你看到这上面写着“关于网页和视频的协议”吗？  
答：看到了。  
费根森律师说：如果我们可以翻到第 24页，洛夫特斯女士。  
问：梅德拉诺先生，你看到第二个从上面数下来的是 GXW1012 和 GXW1012-V吗？  
答：看到了。  
费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物 GXW1012 和 1012-V。  
舒里克律师说：我们可以稍等一下吗？  
费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以只给证人和律师展示 GXW1012-V。
我们不需要播放声音，可以点击视频的几个部分让他们看看。如果你能点击几个部分——  
舒里克律师说：法官大人，没有异议；尽管很难确定这个视频是否会超出交叉询问
的范围。  
法官说：证据被接受。  
费根森律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。  
（政府证物 GXW1012 和 GXW1012-V被接纳为证据） 
费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请现在播放这个视频。 
（视频播放）  
费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以请展示政府证物 Z-9，第 99 页。请
放大底部的条目。  
费根森律师说： 
问：梅德拉诺先生，关注 GXC221，这个图表条目的日期是什么？  
答：2021 年 6 月 6 日。

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问：它发布在哪里？  
答：GTV.org。  
费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，可以播放 GXC221-T 吗？  
舒里克律师说：法官大人，超出了范围。  
法官说：请过来一下。   
（边栏会议讨论）  
法官说：你们在寻求什么？  
费根森律师说：这是另一首音乐视频，标题为“马背英雄”，其中讨论了中共，法官
大人。他被问到是否审查了关于郭文贵谈论中共的陈述。这是回应。  
舒里克律师说：两点，法官大人： 
首先，我问的是在我专注的具体文件的上下文中，梅德拉诺先生或政府是否包括了
关于被告反中共立场的陈述。我没有一般性地问他是否审查了关于郭文贵的陈述。 
第二，我认为在第一个片段结束时，没有一个问题是关于该文件提出给证人的。政
府只是利用这个作为向陪审团播放额外文件的工具，他们没有对梅德拉诺先生提出任何问
题；他们在那结束时没有问一个问题，他们昨天也这样做了，所以我怀疑他们会继续这样
做。  
费根森律师说：对不起，施洛夫律师女士。 
法官说：请轮流来。他先开始。继续吧。  
费根森律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。就最后一点来说，梅德拉诺先生是一个总结证
人。我很高兴可以向他提问，但他对案件没有个人了解。但在播放视频后，我可以这样做。 
至于——  
法官说：但他的观点是，他没有普遍询问证人是否了解郭先生关于中共的评论。他
指的是具体材料。这与那个不同。  
费根森律师说：实际上，法官大人，我认为最初向他提出的问题是，你知道，这张
图表中没有关于中共的陈述，或者你没有就关于中共的陈述作证，对吧？  
法官说：好吧。那么让我们回过头来看看。如果你能从他的交叉询问开始。

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（记录审查）  
法官说：我刚刚看了交叉询问。我没有看到提到中共的内容，也没有问证人是否知
道文件中包含的关于中共的材料。  
费根森律师说：法官大人，这是昨天他交叉询问一开始时的问题。显然，重新直接
询问的范围不仅仅是今天早上的交叉询问，而是整个交叉询问。  
法官说：不对。  
费根森律师说：第一个——  
法官说：不对。重新直接询问的范围是。  
费根森律师说：交叉询问 
法官说：没错。 
费根森律师说：法官大人，他昨天第一个问题是在直接询问时问的：政府是否向你
展示了图表中郭先生谈论中共的任何选定内容？这是在图表中的，是关于中共的。所以我
们想播放它。它只需要四分钟。它已经作为证据了。就是这样。  
法官说：好吧。那么这是在昨天交叉询问一开始时的内容。你同意这是准确的吗？  
舒里克律师说：如果记录是这么说的，我毫不怀疑。  
施洛夫律师说：是的，但这是关于他展示的选定视频。不是关于中共的一般内容。  
费根森律师说：这是其中之一。  
施洛夫律师说：请现在不要打断我。 
法官大人，如果您看看这些视频，这些视频不是关于中共和郭先生的。视频是关于
奢华和郭先生的。这就是为什么政府选择在重定向时播放这些视频。所以整个片段实际上
并不是郭先生的陈述；这是他制作的一则广告，他出现在其中。这些并不是郭先生在演讲
或说什么话的意义上的陈述。下一个视频片段我相当确定是郭先生在跳舞之类的东西。这
超出了可以归于郭先生的陈述范围。而且，法官大人，这也是堆叠的。 
法官说：在那个视频中，他提到中共吗？  
施洛夫律师说：没有。  
费根森律师说：是的。

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施洛夫律师说：我相信有一首关于中共的歌；我不认为他开口说过话。  
费根森律师说：他是歌手。  
施洛夫律师说：对不起，先生。  
法官说：请稍等。  
施洛夫律师说：他没有说话。那首歌在背景中。  
法官说：是他在唱歌吗？  
施洛夫律师说：我不能确定。如果他——  
费根森律师说：是的。  
施洛夫律师说：如果他在配音中唱歌，它仍然是一首歌，而不是一个陈述。  
法官说：请稍等。  
施洛夫律师说：在最近的一个案例中——  
法官说：对不起。请稍等。 
所以你是说那是他的声音在唱关于中共的歌，是吗？   
费根森律师说：是的。而且它已经作为证据了。我只是要播放四分钟。  
施洛夫律师说：根据最近的——  
法官说：如果是他在唱关于中共的歌，这些就是陈述，歌中的陈述。  
施洛夫律师说：法官大人，最近有一些裁决，特别是纽约东区的 DeArcy Hall法官
大人的裁决，认为歌曲中的说唱歌词关于某人做或不做的内容不一定可作为该人的陈述接
受为证据。 
费根森律师说：这已经作为证据了。  
施洛夫律师说：因为它作为证据并不意味着它在这个特定点上可以适当地呈现在陪
审团面前，先生。对于这个特定点。这不是郭先生的陈述，他的嘴没有发出这些陈述；这
是一首配音的歌。你下一个视频是关于他跳舞的。政府试图在这里展示的是他的奢华。如
果这些视频展示给陪审团，可能会理解我拙劣地尝试表达的观点，即现在这样做既累积又
有偏见。  
法官说：让我先说，我非常喜欢 DeArcy Hall法官。

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施洛夫律师说：我也喜欢。  
法官说：而且我很钦佩她的想法。但这是一个不同的案件，非常、非常、非常不同
的案件。 
视频中的歌曲说了什么？  
费根森律师说：它涉及到他们的论点，即他是一个被中共迫害的合法异议人士，举
行这些集会。他们播放了他在法治基金启动仪式上谈论被攻击的片段。  
法官说：歌词中说了什么？  
费根森律师说：我没有记住，但基本上他在说中共正在追击他们，我们要与他们斗
争。大致是这样。  
法官说：这首歌叫什么名字？  
费根森律师说：“马背英雄”，法官大人。它叫“马背英雄”。他和人们一起跳舞，它
涉及到这一点。视频时长四分钟，已经作为证据了，比旁厅会谈还短。  
施洛夫律师说：它涉及到他的奢华，这是这个视频的内容。他没有——对不起。这
首歌从未提到他被中共迫害或起诉。实际上，他只是在谈论全世界对抗中共。 
我认为如果政府真的坚持他们的论点，他们应该把歌词提供给法庭，因为从未有一
次郭先生说中共在追击我；我是来反击的。   
法官说：所以郭先生把自己—— 
（无法辨认的交谈）  
法官说：不要打断我，施洛夫律师女士。  
施洛夫律师说：对不起。  
法官说：郭先生把自己视为反中共运动的领袖。我们有证人说他们依赖他的陈述。  
施洛夫律师说：是的。  
法官说：这是相关的，可以引入。  
  
（回到公开法庭上）  
法官说：反对驳回。

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费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果可以请展示政府证物 C221-V。我们可以播放
这个视频吗？  
（视频播放）  
费根森律师说：我们可以暂停一下。  
问：梅德拉诺先生，屏幕上显示的是什么？  
答：“马背英雄”。  
费根森律师说：我们可以播放一下吗？  
（视频播放）  
费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以停在这里。然后如果我们可以回到政府证
物 Z-9，我们会到第 15页。  
问：梅德拉诺先生，你在交叉询问中被问到关于 NFSC 的问题，你还记得吗？  
答：记得。  
问：好的。现在看一下第 15页图表中的这个条目，这个条目的日期是什么？  
答：2020 年 6 月 28 日。  
问：它发布在哪里？  
答：GNews.org。  
问：这个视频上有字幕吗？  
答：有。   
问：在我们读字幕之前，你能读一下日期右边的标题吗？  
答：“NFSC、G系列和喜马拉雅农场。”  
问：你能读一下字幕吗？  
答：“我，郭文贵，不会向你们要一分钱来为 G系列融资。”  
费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以播放政府证物 C160-V吗？  
舒里克律师说：反对。超出范围。  
法官说：反对无效。  
费根森律师说：谢谢你，洛夫特斯女士。我们只播放前几秒。

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（视频播放）  
费根森律师说：暂停。  
问：梅德拉诺先生，这个视频有多长？  
答：25分钟 26秒。  
问：整个视频都作为证据了吗？  
答：是的。  
费根森律师说：好的。 
现在，洛夫特斯女士，我们回到图表。  
问：梅德拉诺先生，我不会播放完整的视频，但你可以读一下图表中 GXW160-V 下面的
文字吗？ 
我们会一直读到第 16页的一部分，但你可以从第 15页开始读。  
答：“NFSC，请记住将来，它是一个准政治实体。G系列、GTV、GFashion、GClub、G
币和 G美元与 NFSC没有实质性的联系。  
“它像一个非政府组织。但 G 系列完全是商业机构，包括喜马拉雅农场。世界各地
的喜马拉雅农场都根据当地法律注册为有限公司，具体取决于你投资的金额。你投资的金
额将通过股东系统决定你拥有多少权力、管理权级别和利润分享。  
“对于想向喜马拉雅农场捐款的战友们，我再说一次：任何接受捐款的喜马拉雅农
场都将被取消资格。你可以投资，但你不能捐款，我们喜马拉雅联盟不能容忍要钱的行
为。”  
“我，郭文贵，将永不会为了 G系列向你要一分钱。不要将投资与捐款混淆。”  
问：你可以读一下——我们以下一个摘录结束，请，梅德拉诺先生。  
答：“这完全是一项商业运作。在任何情况下都不要将 G系列与 NFSC 联系起来。这完全
是胡说八道。”  
费根森律师说：没有进一步的问题了。  
法官说：再次交叉询问。  
 
辩方律师舒里克先生再交叉询问：

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问：梅德拉诺先生，刚才你看到的文件中 NFSC 可能与任何 G 系列投资分开，是否使郭
文贵少了些政治异议者的身份？  
费根森律师说：反对。  
法官说：反对有效。  
舒里克律师说：没有进一步的问题了。  
法官说：好的，谢谢。你可以下台了。  
证人说：谢谢你，法官大人。  
（证人离开）  
 
法官说：政府可以传唤下一个证人。  
霍顿律师说：法官大人，政府很高兴传唤我们的下一个证人。我们了解到法庭希望
在梅德拉诺先生之后休息一下，以处理一个问题。  
法官说：没错。我确实说过我想在这个时候休息一下。所以，陪审员们，请记住，
你们不能在自己之间或与任何人讨论这个案件。不要做任何关于案件的研究，也不要阅读
新闻媒体或任何其他来源的报道。你们可以出去休息一下。  
（陪审团不在场）  
法官说：辩护方需要多长时间？  
舒里克律师说：法官大人，我认为需要 15到 20 分钟，如果法庭可以接受的话？  
法官说：好的。我们休息 20 分钟。  
舒里克律师说：谢谢，法官大人。  
（休庭）  
（陪审团不在场）  
法官说：请坐下。几分钟前，当我在找法官室的门时，我误打开了陪审员室的门。
看到后，我只说了一句“抱歉”，然后转身离开。你们希望我对此做些什么吗？  
费根森律师说：政府没有什么要说的。  
施洛夫律师说：辩护方没有意见，法官大人。谢谢。

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法官说：请让陪审员回来，并让证人进来。  
（陪审团在场）  
法官说：请坐下。检方可以传唤下一个证人。  
霍顿律师说：法官大人，政府传唤珍妮·李。  
法官说：你可以上证人席。  
霍顿律师说：法官大人，李女士将由一位普通话口译员协助。  
书记员：请举起右手。  
（证人宣誓）  
法官说：请坐下并说出你的名字并拼写出来。  
证人说：（英语）珍妮·李。J-E-N-N-Y，名字。姓氏 L-I，李。  
法官说：请对着麦克风说，以便大家都能听到。  
证人说：（英语）对不起。我的名字是珍妮，名字是 J-E-N-N-Y，名字。姓氏是 L-
I，李。  
法官说：你可以开始提问。  
霍顿律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 珍妮·李，由政府传唤，宣誓后，通过普通话口
译员作证：  
由检方霍顿律师直接询问：  
问：早上好，李女士。  
答：是的，你好。  
问：你住在哪个州？  
答：内华达州。 
问：你有孩子吗？  
答：有。  
问：你有几个孩子？  
答：一个。  
问：你的孩子多大了？

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答：36岁。  
问：你结婚了吗？  
答：是的。  
问：李女士，你曾经是郭文贵的追随者吗？  
答：是的。  
问：李女士，你现在还是郭文贵的追随者吗？  
答：不是。  
问：李女士，你今天在法庭上看到郭文贵了吗？  
答：看到了。  
舒里克律师说：法官大人，我们同意这个身份识别。  
法官说：好的。请继续。  
问：李女士，你第一次听说郭文贵是哪一年？  
答：2017年。  
问：你 2017年第一次在哪里看到郭文贵的？  
答：我第一次见到他是在 4 月 19 日。  
问：2017年 4 月 19 日你在哪里见到郭文贵的？  
答：在美国之音。  
问：2017年郭文贵在美国之音上发生了什么？  
答：他在那儿做直播，揭露中共的腐败。  
问：2017年你第一次见到郭文贵时，对他有什么想法吗？  
答：当时我对他没有任何想法。  
问：李女士，在 2017年你第一次看到郭文贵之后，你看过他的影片吗？  
答：之后出于好奇，我继续看他的影片。  
问：你说你一直在看这些影片。你看这些影片的频率如何？  
答：只要有他的直播，我几乎都会看。  
问：郭文贵的这些影片有什么吸引你一直看下去？

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答：他揭露了中国政府官员的腐败以及一些男女关系。  
问：李女士，在这些影片中，郭文贵说过关于他的钱的什么事情吗？  
答：他说他没有从中国带出任何钱。  
问：在这些影片中，郭文贵穿的是什么？  
答：很多时候他穿着非常好的西装，大多数时候他戴着太阳镜。  
问：郭文贵在这些影片中是从什么地方播放的？  
舒里克律师说：反对，基础问题。  
法官说：反对有效。  
问：李女士，当你看这些影片时，你能看出郭文贵是在哪里拍摄的吗？  
答：在媒体场所。  
问：郭文贵在这些影片中是在哪种房间里？  
舒里克律师说：反对。我们在谈论多个视频吗？  
法官说：你是在问她描述特定的视频吗？  
霍顿律师说：法官大人，让我换一种方式提问。  
问：李女士，什么是雪梨酒店？  
答：郭文贵购买了雪梨酒店的第 18层，他买了第 18层。  
问：你是从哪里知道郭文贵购买了雪梨酒店的第 18层？  
答：他经常在自己的直播中提到。  
问：李女士，你是否听说过法治基金？   
答：听说过。  
问：你第一次听到谁提到法治基金？  
答：郭文贵和班农在 2018 年 11 月 20 日成立了这个法治基金。  
问：2018 年 11 月发生了什么？  
答：发生的事情是郭文贵声称，中国的海航集团的一名高管突然去世，郭文贵声称他是被
中共谋杀的。  
问：李女士，你曾在哪里看到郭文贵和班农谈论法治基金？

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舒里克律师说：反对，问题形式。  
法官说：反对驳回。你可以回答。  
答：油管。  
问：你在油管上看到了什么？  
答：郭文贵和班农成立了这个法治基金。  
问：此外—— 
法官说：我希望双方律师和口译员上前一下。  
（边栏会议讨论）  
法官说：你能做同步翻译吗？  
口译员说：给谁翻译？  
法官说：给证人翻译。与其等她说完再翻译，你能同步翻译吗？  
口译员说：但我认为为了准确性，有时候对证人来说，还是逐句翻译比较好。我可
以试试——  
法官说：我做了 24 年的法官，处理过很多同步翻译的案件。有些口译员不知道如
何同步翻译。所以我问你，你能做吗？  
口译员说：我能做，是的。  
法官说：好的，以后我们就这么做。  
口译员说：好的。对不起，法官大人，我还需要同步翻译律师的问题吗？  
法官说：是的。  
口译员说：我认为我需要一个搭档来一起工作，因为——我觉得我不能长时间单独
进行同步翻译。  
法官说：你是说你不能进行同步翻译吗？  
口译员说：我可以进行同步翻译，但我需要有人和我轮换。  
施洛夫律师说：她需要轮换。  
法官说：但是如果你不进行同步翻译，你就不需要搭档吗？  
口译员说：是的。我可以做大约两个小时，但如果是同步模式，我需要搭档。

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法官说：我们有其他口译员吗？  
芬克律师说：法官大人，我们可以和口译员确认一下——嗯——我们可以和口译员
确认一下。显然，我们不允许使用法院的口译员。 
法官说：没错。 
芬克律师说：我们可以试着找人。我不知道我们是否能找到，但我们会试试。 
法官说：请你们试试看。同时，你继续进行逐句翻译。  
口译员说：好的。  
芬克律师说：谢谢。  
霍顿律师说：谢谢。  
（回到公开法庭上）  
法官说：请继续。  
霍顿律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。请稍等。  
霍顿律师提问： 
问：李女士，你说你在油管上看到一个郭文贵和史蒂夫·班农谈论法治基金的视频，对吗？ 
答：是的。  
问：李女士，在这个视频中，他们谈到法治基金的资金来源了吗？如果有的话，说了些什
么？ 
答：郭文贵说他会捐赠 1亿美元到这个法治基金。  
问：李女士，除此之外，你还有没有听到过郭文贵谈论他对法治基金的捐款？如果有的话，
是在什么时候？ 
答：他没有说太多。他只是说他会尽力帮助在中国失踪的人。  
问：你提到的郭文贵谈论捐赠 1亿美元给法治基金的油管视频，你是什么时候看到的，哪
一年？  
答：2018 年 11 月 20 日。  
问：除了 2018 年的那段视频，李女士，你还有什么时候看到郭文贵谈论捐赠给法治基金？  
舒里克律师说：反对。问题已问答。

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法官说：反对驳回。你可以回答。  
答：他说他会捐赠 1亿美元。  
法官说：李女士，请你靠近麦克风，以便大家能听到。  
霍顿律师说：洛夫特斯女士，你可以展示标记为政府证物VI191 的文件给证人看吗？  
问：李女士，这是什么文件？  
答：这是 2019 年郭再次出现的文件。这也是在油管和GTV上。这是他再次说他会捐赠 1
亿美元。同时他会进行 1 美元对 1 美元的匹配；无论谁捐款，他都会捐出同样的金额。 
问：李女士，你看过这个视频吗？  
答：看过。  
问：你第一次是什么时候看的？  
答：第一次是 2018 年。这是第二次。  
问：对不起，李女士，你什么时候看的这个视频？  
舒里克律师说：问答重复。  
法官说：反对驳回。你可以回答。  
答：第二次是 2019 年 3 月 29 日。  
问：这个视频片段在哪里？  
答：在油管上。  
霍顿律师说：法官大人，政府提交政府证物 VI191。  
舒里克律师说：反对。我们可以到法官席旁简单讨论一下吗？  
法官说：好的。  
（边栏会议讨论）  
法官说：反对的理由是什么？  
舒里克律师说：法官大人，我不明白证人在没有播放该视频的情况下如何能够确认
它，或者她如何能够确认它来自具体的日期。正如我们讨论过的，很明显这是一个
更长的视频片段，并且没有关于片段的基础性证据，比如谁制作了片段，片段是什
么时候制作的，这些都对其可采性提出了质疑。

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法官说：她可以就她看到的内容作证。更合适的做法是先播放片段让证人识别，所
以请这样做。  
（回到公开法庭）  
霍顿律师说：洛夫特斯女士，你可以请展示标记为政府证物VI192 的文件给证人看
吗？  
舒里克律师说：法官大人，我不知道是否打算在证人正确识别文件之前就播放片段
给陪审团听。  
法官说：你可以在没有音频的情况下展示给她，问她是否能以这种方式识别这个视
频。  
霍顿律师说：是的，法官大人。谢谢你。洛夫特斯女士，请在静音状态下播放视频
GX VI192 的片段给证人看。  
（为证人播放视频）  
霍顿律师提问： 
问：李女士，你认得这个视频吗？  
答：认得。  
问：你怎么认得它的？  
答：这是郭文贵在 GTV上的直播，与之前的直播一样。  
霍顿律师说：法官大人，政府提交政府证物 VI191 和 192。  
舒里克律师说：我们仍然保持反对，法官大人。我们可以再到法官席旁简单讨论一
下吗？ 
法官说：可以。   
（边栏会议讨论）  
法官说：那么，为了让你认证这个音频，有没有办法让我们给她戴上耳机呢？ 
霍顿律师说：法官大人，我的想法是，这段音频是用普通话说的，所以陪审团只能
听到普通话的音频。 
法官说：我不知道。也许陪审团中有些人会说普通话。

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卡马拉珠律师说：对不起，法官大人。我并不是故意打断。我在审判中看到的做法
是给证人、法官和双方提供耳机，通过耳机播放音频，然后证人可以确认音频。这
只是我看到的做法。我们需要在陪审团不在场的情况下尝试认证音频。 
法官说：所以我假设你们现在没有准备好耳机。  
芬克律师说：我们没有准备好，法官大人。我们的提议是在午休期间，在陪审团不
在场的情况下播放音频，我们可以认证音频。同时，我们可以继续其他部分，午休
后再回来处理这个问题。 
法官说：好的。  
  
（回到公开法庭上）  
法官说：请继续。  
霍顿律师说：洛夫特斯女士，你可以把这个证据收起来。我们稍后再处理这个问题，
李女士。 
霍顿律师提问： 
问：你是否曾向法治基金捐过款？  
答：是的。  
问：你什么时候向法治基金捐款的？  
答：2019 年 8 月。  
问：李女士，你向法治基金捐款了多少次？  
答：我不记得确切次数，但我有一个大概的数额，因为我有收据。  
问：你总共向法治基金捐了多少钱？  
答：大约 6000多美元。  
问：你说你第一次捐款是在 2019 年。李女士，你为什么没有在 2018 年第一次听到法治
基金时捐款？  
舒里克律师说：反对。  
法官说：反对有效。  
问：李女士，你在 2019 年捐款的原因是什么？

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答：我第一次捐款给法治基金是因为香港反送中运动。有一次抗议活动中，一个女孩的眼
睛受伤了。那是我第一次捐款。  
问：李女士，郭文贵有没有说过有多少人向法治基金捐款？如果有的话，他是怎么说的？ 
舒里克律师说：反对。  
法官说：你是指作为证据的视频吗？  
霍顿律师说：我指的是——她作证说她在很长一段时间内看了很多郭文贵的视频。
我是在问她是否听到他在那个话题上说过什么。 
法官说：反对有效。  
霍顿律师继续询问：  
问：李女士，从你 2017 年第一次在视频中看到郭文贵到 2019 年底，你多频繁地看他的
视频？  
舒里克律师说：已问答。  
法官说：你可以回答。  
答：只要他有直播，我都会看。  
问：这两年里你每周看他的视频几天？  
答：所以，每周五到六天。他会时不时地向媒体报告。 
问：李女士，通过观看那些视频，郭文贵有没有提到有多少人向法治基金捐款？如果有，
他是怎么说的？ 
答：他说有很多人会捐款。  
问：听到郭文贵说有很多人捐款对你有什么影响？  
答：这激发了我也应该捐款的念头。 
问：听到郭文贵说有很多人捐款，具体是什么激发了你也去捐款的？ 
答：因为他捐了 1亿美元。  
霍顿律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请展示标记为政府证物 VH8 的文件给证人看。  
问：李女士，这是什么文件？  
答：这是我的捐款收据。

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问：这是你捐款给什么的收据，李女士？  
答：法治基金。  
霍顿律师说：政府提交政府证物 VH8，法官大人。  
舒里克律师说：没有异议。  
法官说：证据被接纳。  
（政府证物 VH8 被接纳为证据）  
霍顿律师说：请展示，洛夫特斯女士。  
霍顿律师提问： 
问：李女士，这里显示的你向法治基金捐款的 300 美元的日期是什么时候？ 
答：4 月 15日。  
问：哪一年？  
答：2020 年。  
问：李女士，我想谈谈 2020 年 5月的事情。GTV是什么？  
答：GTV是郭文贵创办的直播平台和媒体。  
问：你看过 GTV吗？  
答：看过。  
问：李女士，在 2020 年 5 月，郭文贵对 GTV 说了些什么吗？如果有的话，他说了些什
么？ 
舒里克律师说：反对。  
法官说：你可以回答。  
答：他说 GTV是一个你可以随意发言的媒体，并且可以像油管一样发展壮大。  
问：李女士，什么是郭媒体之声？  
答：所以郭媒体是郭文贵和魏。这个公司和GTV是同一个公司。超过 10万美元的金额会
直接给郭文贵，而 10万美元的金额会给魏。 
问：李女士，你曾经向郭媒体之声汇过款吗？  
答：是的。

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霍顿律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请展示标记为证物 VH7的文件给证人看。  
问：李女士，这是什么文件？  
答：这是我给他开的一张 1万美元的支票。  
问：在左上角的——对不起。  
霍顿律师说：法官大人，政府请求提交证据 VH7。 
舒里克律师说：没有异议。  
法官说：证据被接纳。  
（政府证物 VH7被接纳为证据）  
霍顿律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请展示。  
霍顿律师提问： 
问：李女士，在支票的左上角有一个名字。 
霍顿律师说：洛夫图斯女士，您能把那个部分标出来吗？ 
答：那是我丈夫的名字。  
问：好的。李女士，为什么这张支票上是你丈夫的名字？  
答：我们有同一个账户。  
问：你在 2020 年给郭媒体之声汇 1万美元的原因是什么？  
答：郭文贵创办了 GTV。他说这是对 GTV的投资。  
问：你寄出的 1万美元是你投资 GTV的全部金额吗？ 
答：不是。  
问：你总共投资了 GTV多少钱？  
答：2万美元。  
问：李女士，你和郭媒体的谁有过沟通？ 
答：魏丽红。  
问：你怎么知道要与魏丽红沟通？  
答：是根据郭文贵在 GTV上的说法。  
问：魏丽红有没有用过什么英文名？

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答：莎拉·魏。  
霍顿律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请展示政府证物 120给证人看。  
问：李女士，证物 120中是谁的照片？  
答：魏丽红，莎拉·魏。  
霍顿律师说：政府提交政府证物 120。  
舒里克律师说：没有异议。  
法官说：证据被接纳。  
（政府证物 120 被接纳为证据）  
问：李女士，你为什么想投资 2万美元在 GTV上？ 
答：我是在投资 GTV的股票。 
问：当你向郭媒体汇款时，那是你唯一一次投资 GTV 股票吗？  
舒里克律师说：反对。已问答。  
法官说：反对驳回。你可以回答。  
答：还有另外两次银行电汇，每次 5000 美元。  
问：李女士，你投资 GTV 股票时预期会发生什么？ 
答：郭文贵说我们投资 GTV 股票时，GTV的股价会高于油管。我们购买的是原始股。 
问：李女士，什么是农场借款？ 
答：这是另一个欺诈、集资的计划。 
问：你有没有参与农场贷款？如果有，具体是怎么参与的？ 
答：我总共投入了 60,500 美元。  
问：你最初从谁那里听说农场借款？  
答：郭文贵。  
问：郭文贵关于农场借款说了什么？  
答：他说 GTV 股票的私人融资已经关闭了，如果你想再投钱，有另一个项目可以投资，
就是农场借款。  
问：李女士，你期望通过农场借款得到什么？

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答：GTV 股票。  
问：你在农场借款中投资 60,500 美元是哪一年？  
答：从 2020 年 9 月到 2020 年 11 月。  
问：李女士，什么是 G/CLUBS？  
答：G/CLUBS是以郭文贵名义注册的会员俱乐部。  
问：你最初从谁那里听说 G/CLUBS？  
答：GTV。  
问：郭文贵对 G/CLUBS说了什么吗？如果有，他说了什么？ 
答：他说 G/CLUBS 是一个会员专属俱乐部，有一定的福利，金额在 1 万到 5 万美元之
间。 
问：李女士，你在 G/CLUBS上花过钱吗？ 
答：有的。 
问：李女士，你在 G/CLUBS上花了多少钱？  
答：20,000 美元。  
问：李女士，你在 G/CLUBS上花了 20,000 美元是哪一年？  
答：是在 2020 年 11 月——10 月到 11 月。我不记得确切日期了。我有收据。 
霍顿律师说：洛夫特斯女士，你能展示标记为 VH9 的文件给李女士看吗？谢谢你，
洛夫特斯女士。你能翻阅一下这份文件的页面吗？  
问：李女士，这是什么文件？  
答：这是 G/CLUBS会员的注册或同意书。  
问：你收到过这份文件吗？  
答：我没有收到这份文件。  
问：李女士，这份文件上有你的名字吗？  
答：是的，就在这里。我在网上填写了这张表格。 
问：好的。你能指出这个文件上你的名字在哪里吗？ 
答：在第二行。

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问：那行写了什么？  
答：这行显示了我的名字。  
霍顿律师说：法官大人，政府提交证物 GX VH9。 
舒里克律师说：稍等，法官大人。  
（律师交谈）  
霍顿律师说：洛夫特斯女士，能请您暂时收起这个证物吗？法官大人，我可以请求
片刻时间吗？ 
法官说：可以。 
霍顿律师说：谢谢。 
（律师交谈）  
霍顿律师说：谢谢，法官大人。洛夫特斯女士，请你再把这个文件展示给证人看。  
霍顿律师提问： 
问：李女士，这个文件的日期是什么？在顶部的“发送日期”那里。  
答：2020 年 11 月 9 日。  
霍顿律师说：洛夫特斯女士，你能放大显示发送日期吗？法官大人，政府提交证物
VH9。  
舒里克律师说：没有异议，法官大人。  
法官说：证据被接纳。  
（政府证物 VH9 被接纳为证据）  
霍顿律师提问： 
问：李女士，这份文件的发送日期是什么？  
答：11 月 28 日。  
霍顿律师说：洛夫特斯女士，你能回到主文件吗？  
问：李女士，这是什么文件？  
答：这是我的付款收据。

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问：李女士，当你向 G/CLUBS支付 2万美元时，你期望得到什么吗？如果有，你期望得
到什么？ 
答：也是 GTV 股票。  
问：为什么你期望通过投资 G/CLUBS得到 GTV 股票？  
答：我可以说吗？我可以说吗，还是—— 
法官说：你可以回答问题。  
答：好的。他说支付给 G/CLUBS 的这笔钱也可以获得 GTV 的股票。此外，我还可以享
受这 2万美元的会员福利；我可以在购买商品时享受折扣，并且购房时享受20%的优惠。 
问：李女士，那些福利中你得到了哪些？如果有的话。 
答：什么都没有。  
问：李女士，如果 G/CLUBS会员只有这些福利而没有 GTV 股票，你还会购买吗？  
舒里克律师说：反对。  
法官说：反对驳回。你可以回答。  
答：是的。  
问：李女士，如果你知道投资 2万美元到 G/CLUBS只会得到你刚才描述的那些福利而不
会得到 GTV的股票，你还会投资吗？ 
舒里克律师说：反对。已问答。  
法官说：反对有效。不要回答。  
霍顿律师说：法官大人，我可以请求片刻时间吗？ 
法官说：可以。  
霍顿律师继续询问：  
问：李女士，你说他描述了 G/CLUBS会员的 GTV 股票福利。“他”是谁？ 
答：所有前面带有 G的名字，都是 G会员。 
问：当你说 G会员时—— 
答：就是郭文贵成员。  
问：我的问题撤回。

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霍顿律师说：法官大人，此时我打算转到一个不同的话题。我可以继续，或者如果
您想休息一下，我只是想—— 
法官说：虽然现在才 11:29，但我们现在就休息。请在中午回来。记住，不要相互
讨论案件，不要进行任何调查，也不要听取任何关于此案的报道或描述。 
 
（陪审团不在场）  
法官说：现在我们来处理视频验证的问题。你打算播放多长时间的片段？  
霍顿律师说：法官大人，我认为整个片段大约两分半钟，但我想我们可以通过播放
其中的一部分来验证它。  
法官说：好的。请坐下。谢谢。  
霍顿律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请你为证人展示 GX VI192。  
法官说：在我们开始之前，播放部分片段而不是完整片段有异议吗？  
舒里克律师说：法官大人，辩方的立场是，为了认证，应该播放完整片段。  
法官说：好的。那你们就播放完整片段。  
霍顿律师说：好的。洛夫特斯女士，请在有音频的情况下播放这个片段。  
（播放视频）  
霍顿律师继续询问：  
问：李女士，我们刚才看的是什么视频？  
答：这是我第二次看到郭文贵。他说他要捐 1亿美元到法治基金。  
霍顿律师说：法官大人，政府提交证物 VI192 和 191。  
法官说：证据被接纳。  
（政府证物 VI191 和 VI192 被接纳为证据）  
法官说：我们将在中午继续进行证人的直接询问。女士，在休息期间你不能讨论这
个案件。  
霍顿律师说：法官大人，如果我可以简单说一下，在我们离开之前。我刚才问的最
后一个问题，法官大人您反对该问题并表示“已问答”。实际上，现在我想了想我要
说的话，我不知道在我向法庭询问这个问题之前，证人是否最好先离开。。

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法官说：好的。如果你现在出去，请在中午准备好进入法庭。  
（证人不在场）  
法官说：继续吧。  
霍顿律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。只是两件简短的事情。第一，法官大人对我问李
女士的问题提出了“已问答”的反对意见——这是一个假设问题，基于已在证据中的
事实，关于她是否会投资 G/CLUBS。我只是想解释为什么我再次问这个问题。这
也是一个不恰当的——对不起。这也是一个复合问题，所以它不是——  
法官说：什么样的问题？  
霍顿律师说：一个复合问题。我问她，如果你只得到福利而没有股票，你还会投资
吗？所以这个问题提得不好，我对此而抱歉。这个问题之所以反复提出，即使法官
先生确认了“已问过并答复”这个反对理由，是因为我有理由相信这个问题在李女士
那里没有得到正确的翻译，这是基于我听到李女士关于投资 G/CLUBS 的目的所说
的内容。因此，我的目的并不仅仅是要驳回法官大人的持续反对意见。我认为我之
所以这样做，是因为通过翻译提出了一个复合问题，并且是以假设的方式提出的，
导致我提出了一个非常拙劣构建的问题。我请求法庭允许我问她，如果她知道不会
得到GTV的股票，她是否还会投资G/CLUBS；去掉复合问题，只问她那个与法院
关于对受害者的假设问题的预审裁决一致的假设问题。 
卡马拉珠律师说：法官大人，您已经为口译员宣誓，口译员需要忠实的进行翻译。
霍顿律师不是普通话专家，我认为他不能仅仅因为在准备过程中得到了不同的答案
而在没有任何依据的情况下质疑翻译。 
法官说：我不认为口译员宣过誓。 
卡马拉朱律师说：那么，法官大人，可能是这样。也许我假设这是因为我理解这是
正常的做法。但无论如何，我认为霍顿律师没有理由仅仅因为他在之前问问题时得
到了不同的答案就对翻译进行质疑。 
法官说：所以除非你有基于语言本身的理由，否则你只能接受翻译的结果，而不是
期待不同的答案。

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霍顿律师说：那么，阁下，我请求法庭行使其酌情权，允许我问一个不同的问题，
这个问题不是我认为导致混淆的复合问题。问题是，如果你知道你不会得到 GTV
股票，而这是证据中的事实，你会不会投资，这几乎与我们在证据排除动议中提出
的假设问题一字不差。只是一个不同的问题，它去掉了第一个问题的复合性质。只
问一次，然后继续。 
卡马拉朱律师：这其实是同一个问题，只是去掉了一个细节。这并不是——问题的
实质是相同的。他只是试图去掉一个细节，使其听起来像是一个不同实质性的问
题，这和法官您之前在交叉询问中维持的决定是一样的。 
法官说：我会考虑的。我们在中午再回来。 
霍顿律师说：谢谢，阁下。 
（午餐休息） 
 
 
下午场开始，时间中午 12点 
 
法官说：我的裁决是你不能问已提出的问题。请把陪审员带进来。 
（陪审团到场） 
法官说：请坐。 
请记住，你们仍在宣誓状态中。 
你可以继续询问了。 
霍顿律师说：谢谢法官大人。 
洛夫特斯女士，请为证人展示标记为政府展品 191 的文件。这个文件已被承认为
证据法官大人。 
洛夫特斯女士，请将其展示给陪审团。 
 
法官说：我认为陪审员还没有听到这个文件已经被承认。 
霍顿律师说：我打算问她几个关于它的问题。 
法官说：哦，你计划继续询问。请继续。

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霍顿律师说：是的，几个关于该文件的问题。谢谢法官大人。 
霍顿律师说：洛夫图斯女士已经展示了作为证据的政府展品 VI-191。 
霍顿律师提问： 
问：李女士，这是什么文件？ 
答：这是郭文贵的直播，他说他会从家族基金捐赠 1亿美元和 100万美元。 
问：文件上写着油管。这个油管账户是谁的？ 
舒里克律师说：反对。 
法官说：请再说一遍？ 
霍顿律师说：问题是，这个文件上显示的油管账户是谁的？ 
法官说：你可以回答。 
答：郭文贵。 
问：李女士，这里有什么表明这是郭文贵的油管账户？ 
答：有一个按钮指示，还有他的头像在右边。 
问：李女士，在你描述的图像右边，显示有 451K订阅者。这是什么意思？ 
答：这是——他的支持者注册的数量。 
问：李女士，你看过郭文贵在油管上的视频吗？ 
答：是的。 
霍顿律师说：洛夫图斯女士，请展示作为证据的 GX 192，并将其展示给陪审团。 
法官说：好的。为了清楚起见，你还有进一步的认证问题吗？ 
霍顿律师说：没有认证问题法官大人。 
法官说：所以你要求承认这个视频吗？ 
霍顿律师说：我认为法官在休息前已经承认了 191 和 192。 
法官说：为了陪审团的利益，它们被承认。 
霍顿律师说：谢谢法官大人。 
洛夫特斯女士，请播放视频的一部分。 
（视频播放）

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霍顿律师说：谢谢，洛夫图斯女士。可以停了。 
问：李女士，你以前看过这个视频吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：观看这个视频对你捐赠给法治基金的决定有什么影响吗？ 
答：所以它促使我捐钱。他说家庭基金是 10亿美元，他已经捐赠了 1亿美元。 
霍顿律师说：法官大人，能给我一点时间吗？ 
法官说：可以。 
（律师商议） 
霍顿律师说：谢谢法官大人。 
洛夫特斯女士，你可以把这个展品拿下。 
法官说：你提到了 191。那是 191 吗？ 
霍顿律师说：所以 191是油管的截屏。 
法官说：是的。 
霍顿律师说：这是 192，是个视频。 
法官说：是实际的视频。 
霍顿律师说：是的。 
法官说：明白。 
所以它们都被承认。 
霍顿律师说：是的法官大人。 
法官说：请继续。 
 
霍顿律师问： 
问：李女士，我要换个话题。谁是卢佳美？ 
答：她的网名是豆豆。 
口译员说：口译员想核实一下。 
答：她也是郭媒体的一员。 
问：你第一次听说卢佳美是什么时候？

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答：2020 年。 
问：你第一次听说卢佳美是关于什么？ 
答：大概是卢佳美投资了 4万美元到郭媒体，并要求退款。 
法官说：请稍等。 
律师们，请上前来。 
（边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 
法官说：我刚刚了解到，根据第 604条规定，口译员需要宣誓，而我这里没有任
何宣誓记录；所以她需要进行宣誓。但问题是，辩方是否会对她在宣誓前所做的翻
译提出质疑。 
卡马拉珠律师说：我可以请一分钟时间咨询一下施洛夫律师吗？ 
（律师商议） 
卡马拉珠律师说：显然，我们的问题是，由于我们不懂这种语言，所以我们很难判
断她的翻译是否准确。我能请求给我一分钟时间咨询我的客户吗？他还没有提出质
疑，但我想确保他对翻译没有任何问题—— 
法官说：当然可以。 
卡马拉珠律师说：——这可能会对我们有所帮助。 
施洛夫律师说：我需要跟他谈谈。 
（律师商议） 
（律师与被告商议） 
卡马拉珠律师说：谢谢法官大人。只是确认在此期间没有任何变化。 
（暂停） 
卡马拉珠律师说：如果法官现在要让口译员宣誓，辩方不会对之前的证词提出质
疑。郭先生说他理解了。 
法官说：对于这个错误非常抱歉。 
卡马拉珠律师说：我也应该注意到法官大人。

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法官说：我一直在做审判工作，每天都在州法院进行审判工作，那里的确没有这种
要求。所以我没有想到。我的十一年中从未有人向我提到过这个规则。所以我没有
注意到这个规定。是的，她现在应该宣誓。 
卡马拉珠律师说：法官打算如何做——我建议在陪审团不在场的情况下进行，这样
不会显得奇怪。 
法官说：好的。 
芬克律师说：我们应该边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场进行吗？ 
卡马拉珠律师说：由法官您决定。 
法官说：你反对我在证人证词结束后再进行吗？还是希望我？ 
卡马拉珠律师说：我唯一的担心是—— 
施洛夫律师说：我们没有异议法官大人。我们没有异议法官大人。如果我们的客户
对翻译有任何困难，我们会向法庭提出，因为那是我们的义务。所以我不希望有任
何误解—— 
卡马拉珠律师说：如果法官希望在今天结束时进行——我不知道这位证人是否会以
这种速度继续作证—— 
霍顿律师说：不会。 
施洛夫律师说：你知道吗法官大人？您现在就可以宣誓。我们不需要听到。如果您
想边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场进行，我们完全没有意见。 
法官说：好的。那么请把她带过来。 
卡马拉珠律师说：抱歉法官大人，我也应该注意到。我做过很多外语审判。 
芬克律师说：政府也感到抱歉。我们也应该注意到。我们都在尽力做到最好。 
（口译员到场） 
法官说：请说出你的名字。 
口译员说：蒋莎拉。 
法官说：作为一名口译员，您做了哪些准备？ 
口译员说：准备？

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法官说：是的。你的教育背景？ 
口译员说：哦，是的。我获得了 MBA学位，我在专业翻译行业有超过 20 年的经
验。 
法官说：你是否宣誓或确认，到目前为止对这位证人的翻译和今后的翻译都是她所
说的普通话的真实翻译？ 
口译员说：是的，尽我所知。 
法官说：所以你精通普通话和英语吗？ 
口译员说：是的。 
法官说：律师们有问题吗？ 
芬克律师说：政府没有问题。 
卡马拉珠律师说：我们没有问题法官大人。 
法官说：好的。谢谢。 
（回到公开法庭上） 
法官说：你可以继续。 
霍顿律师说：谢谢法官大人。 
霍顿律师问：李女士，在 2020 年，郭文贵对卢佳美说了什么？ 
答：他说卢佳美要求退款，她是中共派来的代理人。 
问：当时你对卢佳美有什么看法？ 
答：我相信他说的每一句话。 
问：当你说“他”时，你指的是谁？ 
答：郭文贵。 
问：李女士，你在 2020 年去过夏威夷吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你为什么在 2020 年去夏威夷？ 
答：去抗议豆豆，也就是卢佳美。 
问：有多少人和你一起去夏威夷抗议卢佳美？

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答：我不记得确切的数字，大约有 23到 25人。 
问：是谁告诉那群人去夏威夷抗议卢佳美？ 
答：郭文贵。 
问：在夏威夷的抗议中你看到了什么？ 
答：我什么也没看到。 
问：在夏威夷抗议卢佳美时发生了什么？ 
答：有一些宣传资料，还声称卢佳美和她的丈夫是中共代理人。 
问：李女士，你还有什么时候参加过郭文贵组织的抗议？ 
舒里克律师说：反对。 
法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 
答：有。 
问：你还有什么时候参加过抗议？ 
答：德州。 
问：你在德州的抗议持续了多长时间？ 
答：二十九天。 
问：你和多少人一起参加了德州的抗议？ 
答：我不记得确切的数字，但我看到有 200到 300 人，他们轮流参加。 
问：在这些抗议中，你支付了什么费用？ 
答：我参加活动时支付了酒店费用，还支付了其他人的一些费用。 
问：在 2020 年德州的抗议中你大约花了多少钱？ 
答：我花了大约 1万美元。我没有所有的收据，只有 7000 美元的收据。 
问：李女士，再回到卢佳美，当你从夏威夷抗议回来后，你做了什么？ 
答：我回家后一直待在家里，非常害怕。 
问：你从夏威夷抗议回来后为什么非常害怕？ 
答：因为她在要求退款后被指控为中共的代理人。 
问：你在被指控为中共代理人时寻求退款的是什么？

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舒里克律师说：反对。这是对证词的错误陈述。 
口译员说：对不起，请再说一遍？ 
法官说：请稍等。反对有效。 
霍顿律师说：谢谢法官大人。 
问：当你在抗议后感到害怕时，你做了什么？ 
答：我连续两个月待在家里，完全没有出门。 
问：你为什么连续两个月几乎一直待在家里？ 
答：我从夏威夷回来是 12 月 12 日，魏的农场在 12 月 15日解散。 
问：李女士，你提到魏的农场？魏的农场是什么？ 
答：这是郭文贵允许开的第一个农场，是郭文贵和魏，郭文贵允许下开的第一个农场。 
问：魏的农场叫什么名字？ 
答：就是为了集资。 
问：李女士，魏的农场有名字吗？ 
答：有两个名字。 
问：那两个名字是什么？ 
答：第一个叫美国西部农场。 
问：第二个名字是什么？ 
答：凤凰农场。 
问：你在这些农场，西部农场和凤凰农场都做了什么？ 
答：它们有同一个老板。 
问：你是如何参与这个农场的？ 
答：没有活动，只是在 Discord上。 
问：Discord 是什么？ 
答：也许是一种所谓的社交媒体。 
问：你提到魏的农场。魏是谁？ 
答：魏丽红。

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问：魏丽红也是 Sara Wei吗？ 
答：是的，是同一个人。 
问：李女士，Sara Wei的农场与郭媒体有什么关系？ 
答：同一个领导，一个领导，两家公司。 
问：李女士，你说 Sara Wei的农场在 2020 年 12 月关闭？ 
答：是的。 
问：你是怎么知道 Sara Wei的农场要关闭的？ 
答：是在 Discord电话会议上宣布的，大家都聚集在那里。 
问：你对 Sara Wei 向谁报告有什么了解吗？ 
答：Sara Wei的老板是郭文贵。 
问：李女士，当听到 Sara Wei的农场关闭时你的反应是什么？ 
答：在那之前郭文贵和魏允许她开农场，我以为我的钱没了。 
问：为什么农场关闭会让你认为你的钱会没了？ 
答：我以为 Sara会带着钱跑掉。 
问：李女士，有没有什么时候郭文贵谈到农场的关闭？ 
答：郭文贵把农场的其他人聚集起来，在 Discord上开了一个私密会议。 
问：你参加了那个私密会议吗？ 
答：我参加了会议。我每天都在那里。 
问：在与郭文贵的会议期间你做了什么？ 
答：我想听听他如何处理这个问题。 
问：你全程参加了会议吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：郭文贵在 Discord上关于农场关闭的会议是哪一天？ 
答：他说那次会议是在 2020 年 12 月 25日，圣诞节那天。 
问：那天是—— 
法官说：请稍等。

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当你说你在 Discord上开会时，你指的是视频会议吗？ 
证人说：是音频会议。 
法官说：请继续。 
 
霍顿律师问： 
问：李女士，郭文贵在 Discord上关于农场关闭的音频会议是怎么开始的？ 
答：郭文贵在之前两天说他会在 12 月 25日那天对我们说些什么。 
问：在音频会议期间，有没有人向郭文贵提问？ 
舒里克律师说：反对。 
答：有。 
问：问的是什么问题？ 
舒里克律师说：反对。传闻。 
法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 
问：李女士，在 Discord会议上有人向郭文贵提了什么问题？ 
答：在会议的前九分钟，一位来自喜马拉雅的牙医问他如何处理这些钱。 
问：你理解那位牙医在问的是什么？ 
答：他问郭文贵是否同意这些钱，但他要求退款。 
问：牙医要求退款后，郭文贵说了什么？ 
舒里克律师说：反对。 
法官说：你可以回答。 
答：他说这个人是来捣乱的。 
问：那接下来发生了什么，李女士？ 
答：随后他让郭频把他踢了出去。 
问：牙医在向郭文贵要求退款后被踢出去了吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：听到郭文贵在牙医要求退款后把他踢出去，对你有什么影响吗，李女士？ 
答：我也想问同样的问题，因为我也在那里投资了。

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问：你在圣诞节那天的 Discord会议上提问了吗？ 
答：牙医被踢出去后，他对着牙医大喊大叫，我不敢发声。 
问：李女士，你有没有关于这次与郭文贵会议的记录？ 
答：有的。 
霍顿律师说：法官大人，我可以上前吗？ 
法官说：可以。 
问：李女士，我交给你一个标记为政府展品 VH-100 的物品，里面包含政府展品 VH-10
和政府展品 VH-11。 
问：李女士，你以前见过这个物品吗？ 
答：是的，上面有我的签名。 
问：你什么时候见过它？ 
答：今天早上。 
问：这个项目上有哪些文件？ 
答：显示了整个喜马拉雅牙医被踢出去的过程。 
问：李女士，驱动器里的文件是谁做的？ 
答：我自己。 
霍顿律师说：法官大人，政府展品 VH-10 和 VH-11，我们暂时不提交。这些文件
还没有翻译。我们请求辩方现在对这些展品提出任何认证异议。 
舒里克律师说：法官大人，我们在法庭上还没有看到这些文件。我们还没有看到它
们展示给证人，以让她进行认证。我们知道驱动器上有电子文件，但仅此而已。所
以我不确定我们该怎么—— 
法官说：请上前来。 
（边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 
 
法官说：你们是要求这些证据是否要依条件承认吗？ 
霍顿律师说：我们让她认证了这些证据，她看到了驱动器上的内容，她听到了那些
音频片段。她证明是她制作了这些音频片段，并且她知道它们是什么。

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所以我们想把这些记录下来，看看辩方是否对真实性有任何异议。这些是普通话音
频片段。我们正在进行翻译，目前还没有翻译好，所以我们暂时不提交。我们只是
想看看是否有真实性方面的异议。 
芬克律师说：这与双方和法官今天早上在陪审团进入前讨论的内容有关。这是我们
希望通过证人认证的第二个音频片段。一旦各方有时间完成翻译，我们就会提出这
些证据。所以我们只想确保没有真实性方面的异议。 
法官说：你们是说想在证人作证后提交这些证据吗？ 
芬克律师说：是的，在审判的后期，通过双方对翻译的协议提交，或者如果有必
要，我们会请一位翻译专家上证台。 
法官说：所以你们可以在没有听到这些音频的情况下提出任何认证问题。 
芬克律师说：我应该提到，这些证据已经提交，所以他们有这些证据。 
舒里克律师说：好的。我不确定证人怎么能仅通过看一个 U盘就认证音频文件。
这点对我而言并不清楚，这是第一。 
法官说：我们可以像上次一样，在陪审团不在场的情况下播放这些音频。 
霍顿律师说：法官大人，如果我可以解释一下。 
我相信我已经引出了这一点，如果没有，我现在很乐意再做一次。我已经引出了她
知道驱动器上的内容，因为她听过这些文件。当她听到驱动器上的音频时，她认出
了这些音频是她制作的会议片段。所以我认为这足以让她进行认证。 
法官说：如果他要提出认证异议，我会让你为她播放这些音频。问题只是什么时候
播放。 
卡马拉珠律师说：我认为你可以在她直接询问结束时播放。我不知道你还有多长时
间。 
霍顿律师说：没有那么长时间了。没有那么长时间了。 
芬克律师说：所以法官大人，这完全由你决定，我认为更由辩方决定。音频中有郭
先生的声音。我想——我猜我们会建议，按照你的意见，在直接证词结束后播放这
些音频；他们可以在那时提出任何真实性异议，然后开始交叉询问。

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法官说：好的。那我们就这样做。 
芬克律师说：谢谢。 
（回到公开法庭上） 
法官说：你可以继续。 
霍顿律师说：谢谢法官大人。 
霍顿律师问： 
问：李女士，你是否有过自己进行直播过？ 
答：有。 
问：那是哪一年？ 
答：2021 年，2021 年 2 月 6 日。 
问：你在 2021 年 2 月进行的直播的主题是什么？ 
答：是关于所有在郭文贵手下的领导者，他们都是骗子。 
问：你指的是郭文贵手下的哪些领导者？ 
答：郭频，李娅。 
问：李女士，李娅还有其他名字吗？ 
答：木兰。 
问：木兰是谁？ 
答：木兰和李娅是同一个人。 
问：李娅是谁？ 
答：她是郭文贵公司的主要翻译，也是农场的一员。 
问：你认为李娅在郭文贵手下的角色是什么？ 
答：她和 Sara Wei的级别是一样的。 
问：在 2021 年 2 月的直播中，你对郭文贵说了什么？ 
舒里克律师说：反对。 
法官说：反对无效。 
答：一开始我说我遇到的那些人都是线下见的，他们全都在撒谎。

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问：李女士，在 2021 年 2 月的直播中，你对郭文贵说了什么？ 
舒里克律师说：反对。已经问过并回答过了。 
法官说：反对有效。 
问：李女士，你有没有直接与郭文贵沟通过？ 
答：没有。 
问：当你是郭文贵的追随者时，李女士，你使用过WhatsApp吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你曾经在WhatsApp上给郭文贵发过消息或收到他的消息吗？ 
答：是在 12 月份农场解散时，那是我第一次给他发消息。 
问：你在那些WhatsApp消息中与他沟通了什么？ 
答：我与他沟通了这些线下领导有问题的事情，这个人是骗子。 
问：李女士，你在与郭文贵的沟通中要求了什么？ 
答：他忽略了我。 
问：李女士，你在那些沟通中向郭文贵要求了什么？ 
舒里克律师说：反对。已经问过并回答过了。 
法官说：反对有效。 
问：李女士，喜币是什么？ 
答：喜币也被称为 G币。它是郭的第一个字母，G-U-O。 
问：有没有人要求你购买 G币或喜币？ 
答：很多人。 
问：哪一年有人要求你购买 G币或喜币？ 
舒里克律师说：反对。复合问题。 
法官说：反对有效。 
问：李女士，你认为 G币和喜币之间是什么关系？ 
答：它们是同一个东西，但后来改名为喜币。 
问：最终你有没有给某人汇款购买喜币？

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答：有。 
问：你把钱汇给谁买喜币？ 
答：张勇兵。 
问：张勇兵是谁？ 
答：他是华盛顿特区 DC农场的负责人。 
问：李女士，你认为华盛顿特区 DC农场的负责人和郭文贵之间有什么关系？ 
答：他们是一伙的。 
问：你给华盛顿特区农场负责人汇了多少钱购买喜币？ 
答：总金额是 5700 美元，加上 30 美元的电汇费用。 
问：那是什么时候的事，李女士？ 
舒里克律师说：已经问过并回答过了。 
法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 
答：2021 年。 
问：为什么你同意给华盛顿特区 DC农场负责人汇 5000 美元购买喜币？ 
答：在我直播后，我受到了很大的压力，很多人逼我购买。 
问：李女士，你使用推特吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你有没有在推特上发过关于郭文贵的帖子？ 
答：有。 
问：你第一次在推特上发关于郭文贵的帖子是什么时候？ 
答：2021 年 7月 15日，那是我第一次发。 
问：你发了什么内容？ 
答：我现在不记得了。 
问：你发帖的主题是什么？ 
答：这个人是骗子。 
问：你为什么在 2021 年 7月发布郭文贵是骗子的帖子？

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答：因为当“牙医”要求退款时，他被踢出去了。 
问：你说那是在 2020 年 12 月，李女士？为什么在 2021 年 7月发帖？ 
答：因为我在 GTV上直播了 41或 42天，我不记得确切时间了。 
问：你在 GTV上直播与 2021 年发推特说郭文贵是骗子有什么关系？ 
答：因为 GTV是郭文贵的媒体。我不敢在上面说他的坏话。 
问：2021 年 7 月发生了什么让你敢于说话？ 
答：在 2020 年 7月 10 日或 11 日，郭文贵和路德，也就是王定刚，他们就此事发生了
争执。 
问：你说他们就此事争执，是什么意思？ 
答：路德以前住在郭文贵和 Grace在纽约的地方。 
问：李女士，自从你提到的 2021 年 7月的推特以来，你多久发一次关于郭文贵的帖子？ 
答：从那以后我一直在发。 
问：自 2021 年以来你通过这些帖子想传达什么信息？ 
答：我想告诉很多人，尤其是那些从中国翻墙出来的人，不要再把钱投进去。这是有组织
的黑帮。 
问：当你说不想让人们把钱投进去时，你指的是哪里？ 
答：农场。 
问：你认为谁控制这些农场？ 
舒里克律师说：反对。已经问过并回答过了。 
法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 
答：有很多农场在其下。 
问：李女士，你认为这些农场最终向谁报告？ 
舒里克律师说：反对。已经问过并回答过了。 
法官说：反对有效。 
问：李女士，你是否关注过这个审判的新闻？ 
答：一直在关注。

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问：你为什么关注这个新闻？ 
答：我想看看一个骗子是否会被定罪或起诉。 
问：李女士，你说的骗子是谁？ 
答：郭文贵，还有他手下的农场主。他们收集资金，就像一个营销层级，营销骗局，他们
是黑帮。 
问：李女士，我想谈谈你最初投资 GTV的 2万美元。这些钱什么时候退还给你了？ 
答：这笔钱是在 2023 年 11 月通过 ICBC——ICEC——对不起，是 SEC退还给我的。 
问：你最初投资 GTV的 2万美元中，你从SEC拿回了多少钱？ 
答：只有——少了 7.2%或 7.8%。 
问：李女士，你投资 GTV 股票的 6万零 500 美元的农场贷款，有没有拿到任何 GTV 股
票？ 
口译员说：对不起，是 6000 吗？ 
霍顿律师说：6万零 500 美元。 
答：没有。 
问：李女士，你花了 6万零 500 美元得到了什么？ 
答：我什么都没得到。 
问：李女士，你投资 G Clubs的 2万美元，有没有得到任何 GTV 股票？ 
答：没有。 
问：李女士，你花在 G Clubs的 2万美元得到了什么？ 
答：在 2022 年新年，我收到一个看起来很便宜的白色盒子，里面好像有一个杯子和一些
饼干，但我扔掉了。 
问：李女士，这是你从 G Clubs 得到的唯一东西吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：李女士，如果你知道你不会得到任何 GTV 股票，你还会把钱给郭文贵吗？ 
舒里克律师说：反对法官大人。 
法官说：反对有效。

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问：李女士，当你是郭文贵的追随者时，他说过中共对他做了什么吗？ 
答：我不太认真听他的话，但我希望中国能像美国一样成为一个自由和民主的国家，并成
为一个法治国家。 
问：李女士，当你是他的追随者时，你听到过郭文贵说中共对他做了什么吗？ 
舒里克律师说：已经问过并回答过了。 
法官说：反对有效。 
霍顿律师说：法官大人，我可以稍微休息一下吗？ 
法官说：可以。 
（律师商议） 
问：李女士，你总共投资了多少钱来获得 GTV 股票？ 
答：10万零 500 美元。 
问：你这 10万美元从哪里来的？ 
答：其中 1万美元是从家里拿的。剩下的钱，我用了房子的二次抵押。 
问：李女士，除了 SEC退还的部分钱外，你现在有多少钱？ 
答：我不明白这个问题。 
问：李女士，除了 SEC退还的钱外，你投资 GTV 股票的 10万美元中你现在还有多少
钱？ 
舒里克律师说：已经问过并回答过了。 
法官说：你可以回答。 
口译员说：对不起，我需要澄清一下。 
答：除了我告诉张勇兵我想要回的 5700 美元外，我什么都没拿回。 
问：李女士，你没拿回的钱，现在在哪里？ 
答：郭文贵偷了我的钱。 
霍顿律师说：谢谢你法官大人。没有进一步的问题，之前边栏会议讨论，仅法官和
双方律师在场讨论的内容除外。 
法官说：陪审团成员们，我们现在要稍作休息。再次提醒，不要讨论案件。

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法官说：好的。你可以继续向证人询问基础性问题。 
霍顿律师说：谢谢你法官大人。洛夫图斯女士，请你拉出政府展品 VH-10。并播
放音频。 
（音频播放） 
问：李女士，那段音频是什么？ 
答：这是 2020 年 12 月 25日，在 Discord平台上，喜马拉雅牙医要求退款的录音。 
霍顿律师说：洛夫图斯女士，请播放 VH-11。 
（音频播放） 
问：李女士，那段录音是什么内容？ 
答：前半段是喜马拉雅（牙医）要求退款。后半段是郭先生，他在说如果你再要求退款，
你会被踢出去。 
问：录音中听到的是谁的声音？ 
口译员说：请再说一遍？ 
问：对不起，录音中听到的是谁的声音？ 
答：另一个声音是郭斌在说踢出去。另一个声音是郭文贵的声音。 
问：录音中有郭文贵的声音吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：刚才播放的两段录音，VH-10 和 VH-11中都有郭文贵的声音吗？ 
答：是的，两段都有郭文贵的声音。 
法官说：你说被踢出去的牙医叫什么名字？ 
证人说：我不知道她的具体名字，但所有的投资者和领导者在线上都用网名。 
法官说：请继续。 
证人说：所以郭文贵和农场主都知道投资者的名字。 
霍顿律师问： 
问：李女士，你说录音中的牙医叫什么名字？

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答：喜马拉雅。 
霍顿律师说：法官大人，现在我们询问辩方是否对真实性有任何异议。 
法官说：舒里克律师。 
舒里克律师说：对真实性没有异议法官大人。 
法官说：你是怎么录制这些音频的？ 
证人说：是的。 
法官说：我的问题是你是怎么录制这些音频的？ 
证人说：我用我的手机录制的。 
法官说：好的，那么这些录音被承认。但我们需要在陪审团在场时向他们说明这些
录音被承认了。 
舒里克律师说：我认为目前的问题只是认证法官大人。然后政府表示他们可能会在
以后通过不同的证人来提出这些录音。 
法官说：所以你们并不是要现在就提交这些录音？ 
霍顿律师说：法官大人，现在我们有证人在场，我们想解决真实性问题。这些录音
包括被告的陈述，所以它们包含了当事人的承认。为了方便法庭和各方，我们正在
进行翻译，然后我们会—— 
法官说：哦，对，我忘了翻译的事情。好的，就基础而言，我认为这是足够的，而
且辩方没有提出异议。但是在你们提交这些录音之前，我们需要等待翻译。 
好的，请让陪审团回来。 
 
（陪审团在场） 
 
法官说：请坐。交叉询问吗？ 
施洛夫律师说：我们可以边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场讨论一下吗？ 
法官说：可以。 
施洛夫律师说：谢谢。 
（边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场）

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施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我刚刚注意到有人在桌子上与政府交谈。我不太确定那
个人是谁。但我的共同律师提醒我，那个人坐在左边，她的名字是 Stephanie，她
是一位翻译，我们在 MDC与她有过极大的麻烦，并且我们停止使用她的服务。 
卡马拉珠律师说：我们不知道她是被法庭叫来的还是—— 
芬克律师说：法官要求我们找另一位翻译。我们只能找到她。我对她一无所知。如
果你们不想用她，那也没问题。就效率而言，我认为目前的安排还不错，我们很乐
意按照法庭的意愿继续进行。显然，这位翻译不是—— 
卡马拉珠律师说：我们以前在监狱里让她为我们翻译。我们不得不停止使用她，因
为无论是方言还是其他原因，他们就是无法互相理解。 
法官说：好的。那么我们将不再使用她。 
施洛夫律师说：我们只是不想开始后—— 
法官说：明白。 
芬克律师说：谢谢法官大人。 
 
（回到公开法庭上） 
交叉询问开始，由辩方律师舒里克律师提问： 
问：下午好，李女士。 
答：下午好。 
问：你在直接证词中提到你一直在密切关注这个审判，对吗？ 
答：以前是这样。 
问：你一直在关注其他证人在这个审判中的证词吗？ 
答：我没有太多时间看所有的内容。 
问：我的问题是，你有没有关注其他证人的证词，而不是是否看了所有内容。 
霍顿律师说：反对。已问过并回答。 
法官说：好的，继续。 
问：李女士，你还通过哪些方式在关注这个审判？ 
答：我只是看看进展，别的没有。

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问：你在查看进展时参考了哪些来源？ 
答：推特。 
问：具体是哪些推特账户？ 
答：我忘了我的账户。 
问：你忘了你关注的账户？ 
答：哦，不是的。我想——你能否请澄清你的问题？ 
问：当然可以。我的问题是：你关注了哪些推特账户？ 
答：一些政府账户，还有记者的账户。 
问：你在推特上关注了哪些记者的账户？ 
答：有两个记者，但我忘了名字。其中一个叫内城什么的。 
问：他们是报纸媒体的吗？ 
答：不是。 
问：是在线网站吗？ 
答：我可以问一个问题吗？ 
法官说：不可以。你只能回答。 
答：我不知道你是什么意思。 
问：你关注的推特账户中有和在线出版物相关的吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：你在推特上关注了哪些政府账户？ 
答：所有我报告给他们的账户，我都关注。 
问：你能具体一点吗？ 
霍顿律师说：反对。已问过并回答。 
法官说：你可以回答。 
答：FBI，司法部，SEC，国土安全局。 
问：你的证词是国土安全局在其推特账户上发布了关于这个审判的内容吗？ 
霍顿律师说：反对。已问过并回答。

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法官说：反对有效。 
问：除了政府律师外，你还与参加过审判的人谈过话吗？ 
答：哪个审判？ 
问：我们现在进行的这个。 
答：是的。 
问：你和谁谈过？ 
答：我不知道这个人的名字。 
问：这个人是怎么联系你的？ 
答：是从我报告的信中，FBI联系了我。 
问：所以你的证词是联系你的 FBI探员在告诉你审判中发生的事情吗？ 
霍顿律师说：反对。 
法官说：反对有效。 
舒里克律师说：法官大人，这只是一个澄清问题，已经用了三个问题才问到这里。 
法官说：已经有很多澄清问题的努力了。 
舒里克律师说：谢谢法官大人。 
问：你与之交谈的 FBI探员有没有告诉你谁在昨天作证？ 
答：没有。 
问：你与之交谈的 FBI探员有没有告诉你其他具体证人的证词？ 
答：没有。 
问：除了你提到的 FBI探员，还有其他人告诉你这个审判中的证人证词吗？ 
霍顿律师说：反对。已问过并回答。 
法官说：反对有效。 
问：你有没有关注 NFSC 的推特账户发布的关于这个审判的内容？ 
答：你能解释一下那是什么吗？全名是什么？ 
问：新中国联邦。 
答：什么时候？

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问：我的问题是：你有没有关注新中国联邦的推特帖子？ 
答：没有。 
问：你有没有查看过这个审判的任何记录？ 
答：我不太会看英文。 
问：有人向你报告过他们查看审判记录的情况吗��� 
霍顿律师说：反对。已问过并回答。 
法官说：允许这个问题。 
答：没有。 
问：政府律师有没有向你更新过这个审判的任何内容？ 
答：哪个律师？ 
问：任何一个。 
答：我不知道。我以为他们是政府的。 
舒里克律师说：法官大人，我想我们可能失去了音频。 
法官说：请你重复一下答案。 
口译员说：“我不知道。我以为他们是政府的。” 
舒里克律师说：对不起，我能让口译员再重复一遍吗？ 
口译员说：“我不知道。我以为他们是政府的。” 
问：你能指出在律师桌旁的谁是你认为是政府的人吗？ 
答：这三个人。我以前见过他们。 
问：好的。你指出的这些人中有没有人告诉你这个审判到目前为止的实质内容？ 
答：没有。 
问：好的。你已经和本案的政府律师见过八次，为今天的证词做准备，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：再加上今天早上，对吗？ 
答：我不记得具体多少次了，但视频通话可能是两三次。 
问：好的。你见面时，是否向他们提供了信息，对吗？

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答：是的。 
问：好的。你见面时，他们告诉你必须如实回答，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你也确实这样做了，对吗？ 
答：我在这里说的都是我被骗的经历。这是我的全部经历。 
舒里克律师说：请求删除不相关的内容法官大人。 
霍顿律师说：反对，法官大人。 
法官说：同意请求。答案被删除。 
问：你在今天之前与政府律师见面时，你告诉他们的是实话，对吗？ 
答：我说的都是真的。 
问：好的。李女士，你大约在 20 年前移居美国，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你在直接证词中提到你在 2017年通过社交媒体认识了郭文贵，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：那是在油管上，对吗？ 
答：一开始是的，在油管上。 
问：好的。我相信你在直接证词中提到你第一次听说郭文贵是他接受美国之音的采访，对
吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：那个采访是在 2017年 4 月？ 
答：4 月 19 日。 
问：谢谢。但你是第一次在 2017年 7月听说这个视频，对吗？ 
答：不是。 
问：你什么时候第一次听说美国之音的视频？ 
答：是 2017年 4 月 19 日。你刚才只说了 2017年。 
问：李女士，你最初对郭文贵持怀疑态度，对吗？

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答：我没有任何感觉。 
问：你没有告诉政府你认为中国的富人一定与中国政府有关联吗？ 
答：我没说过。 
问：你是否在看到美国之音的采访后加入了一个 Discord群组来与这个运动建立联系？ 
答：是的。 
问：好的。你在直接证词中提到你向法治基金捐赠了 6000 美元，对吗？ 
答：我不记得确切的数额，但我有收据。 
问：那么，你确实向法治基金捐了钱，对吗？ 
答：是的，我向法治基金捐了钱。 
问：在你看来，这是笔不少的钱吗？ 
答：当然。这是个大数目。 
问：事实上，你告诉政府捐这笔钱对你来说是经济困难吗？ 
答：这不是一次性捐款。我没说过那样的话。 
问：那么我们来说说总额。 
霍顿律师说：有问题吗？ 
法官说：有问题吗？ 
舒里克律师说：我以为有的。问题是：关于捐给法治基金的总金额，证人是否告诉
政府捐这笔钱是经济困难。 
霍顿律师说：反对问题形式。 
法官说：反对有效。 
辩方律师舒里克先生问：李女士，你估计你总共向法治基金捐了多少钱？ 
答：大约 6000 美元。 
问：那么，如果我们假设你捐了 6000 美元，你会认为捐这笔钱是经济困难吗？ 
霍顿律师说：反对，法官大人。 
法官说：我允许这个问题。 
答：对不起，我刚才说过，这不是我唯一的捐款。

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法官说：你得到答案了。 
问：总额超过 6000 美元吗？ 
霍顿律师说：反对，法官大人。 
法官说：反对有效。不要回答。 
问：李女士，你有没有告诉政府你向法治基金捐款是经济困难？ 
霍顿律师说：反对，法官大人。已问过并回答。 
法官说：反对有效。已问过并回答。不要再问了。 
问：你捐款给法治基金的一部分原因不是因为香港的抗议活动吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你告诉检方那些学生让你想起了你的孩子？ 
答：是的。 
问：当政府律师问你为什么向法治基金捐款时，你没有提到这些动机，对吗？ 
答：你能解释一下吗？ 
问：今天早些时候，政府律师问你为什么向法治基金捐款，对吗？ 
答：这不是动机。是郭文贵推动的，因为他说他要捐 1亿美元，他的家庭要捐 10亿美元
来帮助，我也想捐钱来帮助香港的孩子。 
问：我理解这是你今天早些时候给出的答案。 
霍顿律师说：反对，法官大人。 
问：现在我的问题是—— 
法官说：反对无效。 
问：为什么你今天早些时候回答时没有提到我们刚才谈到的这些其他动机。 
答：什么动机？ 
问：我很乐意让法庭记录员重读。但是我相信你刚才的证词是你的一部分动机是—— 
法官说：也许你使用的语言有问题，律师。也许你可以尝试使用不同的词。 
问：你向法治基金捐款的原因之一是因为香港的抗议活动，以及抗议的学生让你想起了你
的孩子，对吗？

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霍顿律师说：反对问题形式。 
法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 
答：不完全是。 
问：那么你改变了你之前的回答？ 
霍顿律师说：反对。 
法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 
答：我不明白你在说什么。 
问：女士，你在翻译上有问题吗？ 
答：我能理解她，但请试着解释清楚。 
舒里克律师说：法官大人，我继续问下一个问题。 
问：李女士，我想谈谈你在 GTV的投资，好吗？ 
答：好的。 
问：你是从路德媒体那里听说可以投资 GTV的机会的，对吗？ 
答：我也从郭文贵那里看到了。 
舒里克律师说：法官大人，我们能否请证人回答问题？ 
霍顿律师说：反对，法官大人。她已经回答了问题。 
法官说：请尽量限制你的回答在被问到的问题范围内。比如，如果问题是“你最喜
欢的颜色是什么？”你回答“我最喜欢的颜色是蓝色”，你不要再说“我最喜欢的甜点
是冰淇淋。”只回答问题。 
辩方律师舒里克先生问： 
问：那么，你是从路德媒体的在线直播中第一次听说可以投资 GTV的机会的，对吗？ 
答：不是。 
问：路德媒体是什么？ 
答：这是最早为郭文贵做宣传的媒体，所以它是他的自媒体。 
舒里克律师说：法官大人，这是同样的问题。这是一个不相关的回答。 
霍顿律师说：反对，法官大人。

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法官说：请上前来。 
 
（边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 
 
法官说：我不知道她是否在理解问题上有障碍，还是她只是抗拒回答问题。这是证
人，她有自己的回答方式。我试图让她清楚地回答问题，但我不知道你能从她那里
得到多少明确的回答。你有什么指示要我给她的吗，先生？ 
舒里克律师说：法官大人，如果证人继续给出不相关的答案，我希望法庭继续指示
她直接回答问题。我想我们都听到过她可能是出于法官所说的任何一个原因，无论
是什么原因，我们没有得到对问题的回应。她在霍顿律师的直接询问中没有问题，
但在交叉询问中我们遇到了各种麻烦。 
霍顿律师说：嗯—— 
法官说：我的天哪。我觉得她相当一致。 
霍顿律师说：如果我能发表意见。 
卡马拉珠律师说：我只是有一个——另一个选项，法官大人已经采用过了，那就是
如果证词不相关，我们可以再次请求删除证词。只是作为另一种可能性提出。 
法官说：当然。这可能涉及到她的 2/3 的证词。 
卡马拉珠律师说：好的，法官大人。她不是我的证人。 
霍顿律师说：法官大人，为记录，最后一个问题的回答是对舒里克律师问题的回
应。他可能不喜欢她补充的内容，但她的回答包括了她对郭文贵关系的看法。这是
一个回应性的答案，即使它不是一个有利的答案。 
施洛夫律师说：补充的内容使其成为不相关的回答。 
霍顿律师说：证人没有义务给你简短的回答。她可以根据她认为的问题内容来回
答。这个人是谁？这是一个公平的回答。这是一个回应性的答案。 
法官说：那么你有申请吗？ 
施洛夫律师说：我认为我们会请求删除最后的回答，我们将看看接下来的情况，法
官大人。

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法官说：我只是想回去查看一下记录，看看是否要删除它。 
舒里克律师说：谢谢。 
（暂停） 
法官说：我的一名工作人员告诉我，他们听到陪审员 4号说翻译有些错误，但不
严重。 
施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我们的客户也指出口译员犯了一些错误，但由于我们认
为这些错误不严重，我们没有中断诉讼。所以——这并不矛盾。 
法官说：我只是想把这些记录下来，以防有人对此有意见。 
卡马拉珠律师说：我只是好奇，法官大人，也许我们得问一下，不知道答案是什
么，但陪审员是对另一名陪审员说的吗？ 
法官说：不。陪审员对我的一名工作人员说了这个评论。 
卡马拉珠律师说：哦，明白。明白了。 
芬克律师说：法官大人，我认为您在筛选过程中已经指示陪审员们只能使用口译
员，所以我们认为这个问题已经解决了，没有其他问题了。 
卡马拉珠律师说：我们没问题，法官大人。 
施洛夫律师说：我们不需要另一个指示，法官大人。没问题。 
卡马拉珠律师说：显然如果有问题我们可以再讨论，但现在我们没问题。 
法官说：好的。 
 
（回到公开法庭上） 
法官说：反对成立。我想提醒证人，如果问到一个具体问题，你必须只回答那个具
体问题。 
证人说：好的。 
法官说：所以如果律师问你“昨天是星期几？”并且假设你的回答是“昨天是星期
一”，你不能再补充说“那是一个晴天”或“那天下雨了”。你必须紧扣问题回答。请继
续。 
舒里克律师说：法官大人，关于删除回答的动议呢？

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法官说：回答已被删除。 
舒里克律师说：谢谢您，法官大人。 
继续由辩方律师舒里克律师提问： 
问：你是在 2020 年 4 月第一次听说 GTV的投资机会，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：我相信你在直接询问中作证说你经常看郭文贵的视频，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：好的。你说每周看五到六天，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：在你投资之前，你听到郭文贵谈论 GTV私募了吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：好的。现在我要问你关于你直接沟通的人，我说的直接是指一对一的沟通，好吗？ 
答：你能解释一下吗？ 
问：直接意思是，在我使用这个词的方式中，是指进行直接对话，即一对一的沟通或交
流。明白吗？ 
答：你是指关于投资吗？ 
问：一般来说。当我说“直接”时，我指的是排除任何不包括你正在一对一交流的那个人的
情况。这样解释你明白吗？ 
法官说：所以你的意思是你想让她排除任何群体对话？ 
舒里克律师说：不是，法官大人。我们试试这种方式。 
问：你在投资前从未直接与郭文贵谈过你的投资，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你和 Sara Wei沟通过，对吗？ 
答：关于投资吗？ 
问：是的，关于 GTV的投资。 
答：是的。

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问：好的。Sara Wei 是 VOG的人，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：她是凤凰农场的负责人，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你所有的 GTV 投资指示都是从Sara Wei 那里得到的，对吗？ 
答：不是。 
舒里克律师说：我们能调出作为证据的 VH7吗？ 
问：李女士，你��得这份文件吗？ 
答：这是投资用的钱，支票。 
问：这张支票的日期是什么？ 
答：写的是 4 月 12 日，但这是错的，应该是 5月 12 日。 
问：好的。但上面写的是 4 月 12 日，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你写了这张支票，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：我认为你在直接询问中作证说支票上的名字，王长福，是你的丈夫，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你把这张支票寄给了 VOG，对吗？ 
答：是的，寄给了郭媒体之声。 
问：谁告诉你把这张支票寄到哪里？ 
答：郭文贵说如果金额少于 10万美元，就寄给郭媒体之声，由 Sara Wei负责。 
问：谁提供了地址？ 
答：地址是魏丽红发给我的。 
问：你认识一个叫郭斌的人吗？ 
答：认识。 
问：郭斌是谁？

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答：郭斌是负责为魏丽红（Sara Wei）收钱的人。 
问：好的。魏丽红是 Sara Wei，对吗？ 
答：魏丽红是 Sara Wei。 
问：郭斌为 Sara Wei工作，对吗？ 
答：这个人同时为郭文贵和 Sara Wei工作。 
问：我认为你作证说除了这张 1万美元的支票外，你还进行了两次 5000 美元的银行转
账，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：那些转账是在支票之前还是之后进行的？ 
答：之前。 
问：魏丽红提供给你账户信息，让你通过电子方式转账，对吗？ 
答：我不太记得了，可能是郭斌，也可能是 Sara Wei，反正是他们中的一个。 
问：好的。你的理解是 Sara控制了你转账的账户，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你从未参与过郭先生和 Sara Wei 之间关于你投资 GTV资金转账的任何讨论，对
吗？ 
答：你能解释一下吗？ 
问：你从未和——算了，撤回这个问题。你之前作证说 Sara Wei或郭斌是提供你银行转
账信息的人，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你转账的账户是由魏女士控制的，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：郭先生没有参与你与魏女士之间的任何讨论，对吗？ 
答：你能再解释一下吗？我不太明白你的问题。 
法官说：所以，当你与 Sara 沟通时，当你与萨拉联系时，郭文贵有参与其中吗？
他有参与那次对话吗？

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证人回答：没有。 
问：你从未听到郭先生告诉魏女士投资者应该把钱寄到哪里，对吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：如果郭先生给了魏女士任何指示——撤回。你不知道 Sara Wei 是否遵循了郭文贵的
指示，对吗？ 
法官说：稍等。似乎有来自某个地方的噪音，但不是我们能控制的。我们已经请设
施部门查看了。同时，陪审员们，你们能听到证人和律师的声音吗？ 
陪审员们：能听到。 
法官说：我看到他们说是的，所以你可以继续。 
舒里克律师说：法官大人，我相信有一个问题还没有回答，对吗？ 
法官说：好的。我请记录员重读问题。 
（记录重读） 
答：我知道郭文贵指示要接收那 2000股股份，是为 GTV 股东们准备的。 
问：我们试试这种方式：你作证说你没有参与郭先生和魏女士之间的任何讨论，对吗？ 
霍顿律师说：反对。已问过并回答。 
法官说：反对无效。请继续。问题是什么？ 
舒里克律师说：我相信口译员刚才翻译了。 
法官说：不，不。你说“你作证说”，然后没有问出一个问题。 
舒里克律师说：记录员有问题吗？我以为我问了一个问题，但可能—— 
（记录重读） 
法官说：我没有听到“对吗”。好的，你可以回答这个问题。 
答：没有。 
问：没有意思是你没有参与，对吗？ 
答：参与什么？ 
问：女士，参与郭先生和魏女士之间的对话。 
答：在直播中，郭指派魏来收钱。

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舒里克律师说：请求删除不相关的回答。 
法官说：回答已删除。继续。 
问：郭先生在你不参与对话时给魏女士的任何指示，你不知道她是否遵循了那些指示，对
吗？ 
答：你问我的问题方式，我不知道怎么回答。 
问：女士，你能理解口译员的意思吗？ 
法官说：口译员需要把问题传达给证人。 
答：能。 
问：郭先生没有告诉你把钱寄到哪个账户，对吗？ 
答：他没有告诉我哪个账户，但是他—— 
口译员说：对不起。抱歉。 
答：他说在直播中，他说魏丽红将为郭媒体之声收集金额少于 10万美元的资金。 
问：他给了你账号吗，女士？ 
答：没有。 
问：唯一给你账号的人是 Sara Wei或郭斌，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：好的。你之前作证说你参与了凤凰农场的借贷，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：在 2020 年 9 月至 11 月之间，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：Sara Wei创立了凤凰农场，对吗？ 
答：是郭文贵指派她建立的农场。 
问：她建立了农场，对吗？ 
口译员说：对不起？ 
问：她建立了农场，对吗？ 
答：是的。

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问：Sara鼓励支持者向她的农场汇款，对吗？ 
答：你能再说一遍吗？ 
问：Sara鼓励支持者向凤凰农场汇款，对吗？ 
答：我能说点什么吗？ 
法官说：只需要回答问题就好 
答：好的 
问：好的。你在借款时与 Sara 或郭斌协调，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：在 Discord上，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：也通过电子邮件？ 
答：是的。 
问：你按照 Sara的指示进行借贷，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你做了她告诉你做的事情，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你没有将任何钱款寄给郭文贵用于农场借贷，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你的理解是农场贷款会让你获得贷款利息和 GTV 股票，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：这种理解是基于你签署的贷款协议，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你确实与凤凰农场签订了贷款协议，对吗？ 
答：我签署了协议，但他们没有签回来。 
问：在寄出之前，你仔细查看了借款协议吗？ 
答：我没有仔细查看，因为我信任郭文贵和 Sara Wei。

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问：你和你丈夫讨论过这件事吗？ 
霍顿律师说：反对，法官大人。 
法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 
答：没有。 
问：那份借款协议在哪里？ 
答：你能再说一遍吗？ 
问：你有那份借款协议的副本吗？ 
答：有。 
问：你是否向政府提供了那份协议的副本？ 
答：我提供给政府的东西是通过电子邮件和普通邮件发送的。 
问：好的。所以，为了澄清一下，你的证词是你将农场借款协议的副本发送给了政府，对
吗？ 
答：是的，我发送了。 
问：在你的农场借款协议上，凤凰农场被列为借款人吗？ 
答：让我想想。 
问：慢慢来。 
答：因为那是很久以前的事了。不，我认为应该是凤凰农场。哦，不，不是。 
问：好吧。你是否了解到郭文贵和 Sara Wei闹翻了？ 
答：是的。 
问：那是在 2020 年底吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你知道魏女士被指控处理农场借贷资金不当吗？ 
霍顿律师说：反对。缺乏基础。 
法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 
答：你能再说一遍问题吗？ 
问：你知道 Sara Wei被指控处理农场贷款资金不当吗？

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答：你是指我的理解，对吗？ 
问：对。 
答：我最初的理解是 Sara Wei和郭文贵是一起工作的。 
舒里克律师说：请求删除不相关的回答，法官大人。 
法官说：回答已删除。回答问题前请仔细听问题。 
证人说：好的。 
问：你是否了解萨拉·魏被指控处理农场贷款资金不当的情况？ 
答：是的。 
问：郭文贵对此不满意，对吗？ 
霍顿律师说：反对。 
法官说：反对无效。你可以回答你是否观察到他不高兴。 
答：我没有观察到他不高兴。 
问：最终，Sara Wei离开了凤凰农场，对吗？ 
答：那是一个沟通平台。 
舒里克律师说：对不起。我能请翻译再重复一遍吗？ 
口译员说：“那是一个沟通平台。” 
法官说：“那是一个沟通平台。”这是回答。 
口译员说：是的。 
舒里克律师问： 
问：有没有一个时刻是魏女士不再参与农场的事务？ 
答：因为情况并非如此。 
舒里克律师说：请求删除，法官大人。 
法官说：回答已删除。 
问：同样的问题：有没有一个时间点是 Sara Wei不再参与农场的事务？ 
答：她一直在参与这个事。 
舒里克律师说：请求删除，法官大人。

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法官说：回答已删除。 
问：2020 年底，很多人对 Sara Wei感到不满，对吗？ 
霍顿律师说：反对，法官大人。 
法官说：请稍等。你可以陈述你是否观察到其他人对 Sara Wei感到不满。 
答：当农场被解散时。 
问：所以，人们在农场被解散时对 Sara Wei感到不满，对吗？ 
答：他们不是不满，他们是想要钱。 
问：而 Sara没有给他们钱，对吗？ 
答：我不确定。她没有给我钱。 
问：你对她感到不满，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：很多人对她感到不满，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：好的。你在直接询问中提到你参与了一些抗议活动，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：在德州有一个抗议活动，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：在夏威夷也有一个抗议活动，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：在洛杉矶也有一个抗议活动，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你参加了这些抗议活动，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：在德州的抗议活动中，你知道这次抗议是针对一个叫傅希秋的人，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：有时被称为傅牧师，对吗？

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答：是的。 
问：当时你认为傅牧师是中共的特工，对吗？ 
答：不是。 
问：当时你不认为傅牧师是中共的特工？ 
霍顿律师说：反对。已问过并回答。 
法官说：反对有效。不要翻译这个问题。反对有效。 
问：你为什么去参加抗议活动？ 
答：郭文贵说他是中共的间谍。 
问：但你不相信这一点？ 
答：当时他说什么我都信。 
问：你刚才不是作证说你不认为傅牧师是中共间谍吗？ 
答：你刚才问的不是这个意思。 
问：女士，那你相信哪一个？你在参加抗议时认为他是间谍吗？ 
答：郭文贵拿出了他持有的中共的许可证来告诉我们他是间谍。 
舒里克律师说：请求删除，法官大人。 
法官说：回答已删除。 
问：女士，我的问题是：你相信什么？ 
答：我当时相信郭文贵所说的。 
问：好的。针对傅希秋的抗议活动大约在 2020 年 10 月，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：在德州。 
答：是的。 
问：你去德州抗议是为了凤凰农场的人，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：在德州，Sara Wei领导了那次抗议，对吗？ 
答：我不知道怎么回答这个问题。

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问：在德州的抗议活动中，谁是领导者？ 
答：有三个人。 
问：在德州有三个人？ 
答：有三个人指挥抗议活动。 
问：再说一次，在德州？ 
答：是的。 
问：好的，那三个人是谁？ 
答：“长岛”和“德州牛仔”。我不知道确切的名字。文莱，也叫 Teng Fung Chin（音译）。
海洋陈其生。 
问：我认为那超过了三个人，对吗？ 
答：你问的方式——请等一下。你问的方式——请等一下。让我想一想。 
问：当然。 
答：郭文贵在 GTV上说我们派了 20 个人，而傅牧师说我们需要派更多的人。 
舒里克律师说：法官大人，请求删除。 
法官说：回答已删除。你刚才说有一些领导者。能告诉我们领导者的数量吗？ 
证人说：是的。三到四个。 
舒里克律师问： 
问：在德州。 
答：是的。 
问：我得到的是 Sara Wei，长岛伟哥，和德州牛仔；到目前为止我说的对吗？ 
答：德州牛仔，陈其生，Sher Wang Wong（音）。我知道的就是这些。 
法官说：很好。 
舒里克律师说：是否—— 
法官说：我们今天的工作到此结束。陪审员们，你们明天像平常一样返回法庭，准备在上
午 9:30进入法庭。记住，不要在自己之间讨论案件，不要允许其他人在你们面前讨论，
不要阅读、观看、收听任何关于这个案件的来源。祝你们晚上愉快。

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（陪审团不在场） 
法官说：女士，你必须明天返回法庭，准备在 9:29进入法庭。不要讨论案件。你
可以离开了。你可以离开了。 
（证人离开） 
法官说：你们可以坐下。在我们今天结束之前，双方还有什么要说的吗？ 
芬克律师说：法官大人，我只是想问一下辩护律师舒里克律师，大约还需要多长时
间来交叉询问李女士，以便我们评估日程安排等。 
舒里克律师说：这很难说，法官大人。这很大程度上取决于证人。我想我可能还需
要至少一个小时，一个半小时。我们会商量一下，然后再告诉政府。 
法官说：商量一下。这是个好主意。 
舒里克律师说：当然。 
芬克律师说：对不起，我听到的是一个小时，一个半小时？ 
法官说：他说的就是这个。 
芬克律师说：好的。 
法官说：还有其他事吗？ 
卡马拉珠律师说：只有一件事，法官大人。我认为我们没有收到证人提供给政府的
农场贷款协议的副本，所以我们请求提供这一文件。 
法官说：她把农场贷款协议交给政府了吗？ 
芬克律师说：法官大人，我今天坐在这里，不知道。我所知道的是我们收到的所有
文件都已经提供了。我们会再检查，确保所有文件都提供了。也有可能她把文件寄
给了其他政府机构，比如国土安全调查局（HSI）或证券交易委员会（SEC）。我
们不知道。但如果我们有，我们会提供。 
卡马拉珠律师说：谢谢。 
法官说：很好。谢谢。 
 
（休庭至 2024 年 6 月 5日上午 9:00）

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审问索引 
审问人： 页码 
 
Shamel Medrano 
舒里克律师的交叉询问 ........................................... 1137 
费根森律师的重定询问 ........................................... 1143 
舒里克律师的再交叉询问 ........................................ 1156 
 
Jenny Li 
霍顿律师的直接询问 ........................................... 1159 
舒里克律师的交叉询问 ........................................... 1219 
政府证据 
证据编号 接收 
GXW1012 和 GXW1012-V ........................................... 1145 
VI191, VI192 ................................................... 1182 
VH7 ......................................................... 1174 
VH8 ......................................................... 1172 
VH9 ......................................................... 1178 
120 ......................................................... 1175

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