Original Court Transcript(原始庭审记录)
1253
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
------------------------------x
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
v. 23 Cr. 118 (AT)
MILES GUO,
Defendant. Trial
------------------------------x
New York, N.Y.
June 5, 2024
9:05 a.m.
Before:
HON. ANALISA TORRES,
District Judge
-and a Jury-
APPEARANCES
DAMIAN WILLIAMS
United States Attorney for the
Southern District of New York
BY: MICAH F. FERGENSON
RYAN B. FINKEL
JUSTIN HORTON
JULIANA N. MURRAY
Assistant United States Attorneys
SABRINA P. SHROFF
Attorney for Defendant
PRYOR CASHMAN LLP
Attorneys for Defendant
BY: SIDHARDHA KAMARAJU
MATTHEW BARKAN
CLARE P. TILTON
ALSTON & BIRD LLP
Attorneys for Defendant
BY: E. SCOTT SCHIRICK
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1254
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1
ALSO PRESENT:
Isabel Loftus, Paralegal Specialist, USAO
Michael Gartland, Paralegal Specialist, USAO
Geoffrey Mearns, Paralegal Specialist, USAO
Robert Stout, Special Agent, FBI
Ruben Montilla, Defense Paralegal
Tuo Huang, Interpreter (Mandarin)
Shi Feng, Interpreter (Mandarin)
Yu Mark Tang, Interpreter (Mandarin)
Lian Wang, Interpreter (Mandarin)
Ziyou Parker, Interpreter (Mandarin)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1255
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1
(Trial resumed; jury not present)
THE COURT: Good morning. Would you make your
appearances, please.
MR. HORTON: Good morning, your Honor.
Justin Horton, Ryan Finkel and Juliana Murray for the
government. We're joined by Paralegal Isabel Loftus and Agent
Robert Stout from the FBI.
THE LAW CLERK: Defense counsel is not here.
THE COURT: Please be seated. We'll wait for them.
MR. SCHIRICK: Apologies, your Honor.
THE COURT: Make your appearances, please.
MR. SCHIRICK: Good morning, your Honor. Scott
Schirick and Matt Barkan on behalf of defendant Mr. Guo,
together at counsel table with Mr. Guo.
THE COURT: You may be seated. Is there anything
you'd like to raise before we go back to the witness testimony?
MR. FINKEL: Just one thing, your Honor, and this
would effect either the second or the third witness today,
who's a victim that was also a follower of the defendant and
worked quite extensively with the defendant. This was a
subject of some briefing before your Honor in motion in limine.
That witness, she knows that the defendant is incarcerated, and
communicated through his agents while he was incarcerated. We
have instructed that witness consistent with your Honor's
ruling not to mention that he's incarcerated. Obviously, we
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1256
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1
don't tell the witnesses what to say, but to follow the Court's
ruling, we instructed her as that. Just want to put that on
the record.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, one housekeeping matter I
neglected to mention that Mr. Kamaraju and Ms. Shroff are also
here, just not at counsel's table at the moment, but they will
be here shortly.
THE COURT: We'll resume then at 9:29. Please have
the witness on the stand.
(Recess)
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1257
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: Please be seated. I'm now going to have
the interpreters sworn.
(Interpreters sworn)
THE COURT: On my left if you would please state your
name.
THE INTERPRETER: Ziyou Parker.
THE COURT: Would you describe your educational
background.
THE INTERPRETER: I graduated from China. I possess
my bachelor's degree, and I came to New York City ten years
ago. I went to NYU University, finish my ESL advanced program.
Currently I'm working with the federal immigration court. I'm
certified by the federal immigration court as Mandarin
interpreter.
THE COURT: So you speak English and Mandarin both
fluently?
THE INTERPRETER: Yes.
THE COURT: Sir, would you describe your educational
background.
THE INTERPRETER: I have master's degree from Indiana
University, and I've been practicing translation and
interpretation in New York area for more than 20 years. I'm
certified by state of New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. I
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1258
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1
go to federal court and state court.
THE COURT: And your name, sir?
THE INTERPRETER: Lian Wang.
THE COURT: And you're fluent both in Mandarin and
English, correct?
THE INTERPRETER: Correct.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you. Please have the
jurors brought in.
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1259
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1 Jenny Li- Cross
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Please be seated. Good morning, jurors.
Welcome back. I had you brought in at 9:33 because we've been
having some difficulty with our audio visual system, and it is
mostly fixed, and so that was the delay of a few minutes.
Would you continue with the examination of the witness.
JENNY LI, previously sworn testified as follows:
CROSS-EXAMINATION CONTINUED
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Thank you, your Honor. Ms. Li, thank you for coming back
this morning.
Do you recall yesterday that you testified to having
met with representatives of the government on approximately
eight occasions before trial?
THE COURT: It appears that we're also having
difficulty with this microphone on the left. They're working
on it now, so we'll wait.
(Pause)
THE COURT: I was just told that there were power
surges yesterday that have interfered with the equipment, so
hopefully we've got the right fix. You may continue.
MR. SCHIRICK: Thank you, your Honor. May I ask
whether the court reporter was able to take down the question?
(Record was read)
THE COURT: I think the best thing to do at this point
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1260
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1 Jenny Li- Cross
is to take a break, and we can get the whole team in and
working on these machines. So remember not to discuss the case
amongst yourselves. All of the same warnings apply that I've
been giving you.
(Jury not present)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1261
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1 Jenny Li- Cross
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: I'm told that the podium microphone also
failed, so that's why we need to get the whole system revamped.
MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, I believe counsel table's mic
is working. Perhaps we could use that mic.
THE COURT: You mean to extend it over to the podium?
MR. FINKEL: Or to question from the table. He could
stand and question from the table.
THE COURT: How does the defense feel about that?
MR. SCHIRICK: To be perfectly honest, your Honor, I
much prefer to be at the podium.
THE COURT: Understood. Very well. We're going to
get these microphones fixed. You may step down.
(Recess)
THE COURT: Please be seated. Please have the jurors
brought back in.
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Please be seated. You may continue.
MR. SCHIRICK: Thank you, your Honor.
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Ms. Li, do you recall testifying yesterday that you met
with representatives of the government on approximately eight
occasions before trial?
A. Yes, I saw him yesterday.
THE COURT: I want you to use the microphone when
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1262
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1 Jenny Li- Cross
you're speaking in Mandarin as well as English. I'm saying
that to the interpreter. Go ahead.
Q. What do you mean by you saw him yesterday?
A. That's the question you asked me.
Q. Ma'am, my question was, do you recall testifying that you
met with representatives, various representatives, of the
government on approximately eight occasions before trial?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And some of those meetings were by phone, correct?
A. No.
Q. Some of those meetings were virtual meetings, correct?
A. Virtual video.
Q. Fair enough. Like zoom, correct?
A. I don't know about zoom.
Q. Okay. But virtual meetings by video, whatever the tool
was, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And some of those meetings were in person, correct?
MR. HORTON: Objection, your Honor. We covered this
yesterday at length.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. Yes.
Q. And do you remember speaking to representatives of the SEC,
the Securities and Exchange Commission?
A. No.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1263
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1 Jenny Li- Cross
Q. And you spoke to members of the Department of Homeland
Security, correct?
A. I saw somebody, but I'm not sure which department they came
from.
Q. Do you recall an interview that you gave in July of 2023,
virtually, to agents of the Homeland Security investigation?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. You don't recall?
A. I remember it was sometime in June.
Q. So you recall the meeting, just you believe that the timing
was in June of 2023, correct?
THE COURT: Is there an answer?
THE INTERPRETER: Let me wait. Can I have the
question again.
MR. SCHIRICK: I believe there was an answer. If the
Court permits, we can read back the question and answer.
THE COURT: My recollection is that she said let me
wait.
MR. SCHIRICK: I thought that came after the answer,
your Honor. I could be wrong.
THE COURT: If the reporter would please read back the
question and answer.
(Record was read)
THE COURT: I'd like you to step up, please, counsel.
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1264
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1 Jenny Li- Cross
(At the sidebar)
THE COURT: I'd like to suggest, of course you do not
have to take this suggestion, that you use simpler words. So
instead of saying, Do you recall testifying yesterday, Do you
remember that in court yesterday you said.
MR. SCHIRICK: I will do my best, your Honor.
THE COURT: Thank you.
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1265
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1 Jenny Li- Cross
(In open court)
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Let me try a little differently.
Do you remember speaking with members of the Homeland
Security Department in June of 2023?
A. No.
Q. When do you believe you spoke to members of the Homeland
Security investigations group?
A. June 2022.
Q. Okay. Thank you. Do you recall or do you remember meeting
with Mr. Horton from the government in April of 2023?
A. I don't recall the exact date.
Q. Do you recall that it was in the spring of 2023?
A. Nope.
Q. When do you think it was?
A. This year, 2024.
Q. Do you recall meeting with Mr. Horton in May of 2024?
A. I believe I had three video contacts with somebody from
government, but I don't recall the date.
Q. Were those video contacts with the government in the spring
of this year?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, before we broke yesterday, I believe you were talking
about some protests that you participated in. Do you recall
that?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1266
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1 Jenny Li- Cross
A. I do.
Q. Am I right that in September of 2020, you participated in a
protest in Los Angeles?
A. It was August 29, 2020.
Q. Did it stretch into September of 2020?
A. No, August 29.
Q. And the protests took place outside the Chinese Consulate
in Los Angeles, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And the protests were of China's treatment of Hong Kong
protestors during Covid, correct?
A. Can I have the question again.
Q. You were protesting China's treatment of Hong Kong's
protesters, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And the Himalaya Farms organized that protest, right?
THE INTERPRETER: Can the interpreter have that
question again, interpreter.
THE COURT: Repeat the question.
Q. The Himalaya Farms organized that protest, right?
A. Can I have the interpreter interpret the question again?
THE INTERPRETER: From the interpreter, I did not get
which organization. The interpreter did not get that.
MR. SCHIRICK: It's called the Himalaya Farms.
A. Guo Wengui cause the farms in the grassroot level to
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1267
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1 Jenny Li- Cross
participate actively.
Q. Was Mr. Guo in L.A. for that protest?
A. He was not in Los Angeles. He was in his hotel.
Q. Who was organizing in Los Angeles?
A. We responded to calls from Guo Wengui.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, move to strike as
non-responsive.
THE COURT: Yes. The answer is stricken.
Q. What person in Los Angeles, physically present in Los
Angeles was directing the protest?
A. Guo Wengui at the top level was giving instructions. On
the lower level it was a huge organization. There was a person
Wei Lihong belong to the lower level.
Q. Is that Sara Wei?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there someone named Michelle Peng in Los Angeles?
A. Her Chinese name is Feng Qing Peng.
THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter will spell as F-E-N-G,
Q-I-N-G, P-E-N-G.
MR. SCHIRICK: Can I ask the interpreter to please
hold the microphone to his mouth.
Q. Michelle Peng is the same person that you just identified
by their Mandarin name; is that correct?
A. There was somebody else.
Q. Are you familiar with a person referred to as Michelle
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1268
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1 Jenny Li- Cross
Peng?
A. Yes, I am.
Q. And what is that person's Cantonese name or Mandarin name?
A. Feng Quing Peng.
THE INTERPRETER: I will spell, F-E-N-G, Q-U-I-N-G,
last name P-E-N-G.
Q. Okay. Going forward I'm going to refer to that person as
Michelle Peng, okay.
A. I don't know what's her real name. They've been using
their net names. Her net name was Wen Lei.
Q. Whether it's that name or the other name, going forward do
you understand that I will refer to that person in my
questioning as Michelle Peng?
A. Okay.
Q. Thank you. Was Michelle Peng an organizer at the Phoenix
Farm?
A. I would say she was an assistant of Wei Lihong.
Q. And can we agree that going forward in my questioning I
will refer to Wei Lihong as Sara Wei?
A. Okay.
Q. So Michelle Peng worked for Sara Wei, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you became suspicious -- withdrawn.
Do you recall that you became suspicious of Michelle
Peng during the trip to L.A.?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1269
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1 Jenny Li- Cross
A. Yes.
Q. And that was because she was secretly taking pictures of
demonstrators in L.A., correct?
A. It was not her.
Q. Why did you become suspicious of Michelle Peng during the
L.A. trip?
A. For events that were experienced that I saw.
Q. Can you please explain that further?
A. I mean something happened during the demonstration.
Q. And what was that?
A. Somebody told others that when they face the Consulate,
they should take off their mask for the purpose of taking
pictures.
Q. And was that Ms. Peng who said that?
A. I was not talking about Ms. Peng. I mean somebody else
were taking photos secretly.
Q. Were you able to identify the person who was taking photos
secretly?
A. Yes, I can. Even though the person was having the mask on,
I could still identify him.
Q. And was that person there as part of the protest?
A. No.
Q. Who was the one who told protestors to take their mask off
when they face the Consulate?
A. The person who took the photos.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1270
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1 Jenny Li- Cross
Q. Now, you testified before that you became suspicious of
Michelle Peng, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And why was that?
A. She was leading the groups. She was representative of Sara
Wei.
Q. What is it that she did at the protest to make you
suspicious of her?
A. There were quite a lot of factors involved in this issue.
Do you want me to tell you?
Q. How about this, did -- withdrawn.
Was there anything that the protestors did that
indicated to you that they might be planning to expose the
protestors to the CCP?
MR. HORTON: Objection to form, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. Yes.
Q. So the people you were there protesting with, you had
concerns that those people were not true movement members,
correct?
A. The person was not a member of us. The person came from
outside. He was the one who draws the pictures of the national
flags for Guo Wengui.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor move to strike as
non-responsive.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1271
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1 Jenny Li- Cross
THE COURT: The answer is stricken.
MR. SCHIRICK: Can the court reporter please read back
the question.
(The record was read)
A. Yes.
Q. So at the time in your mind you believed it was possible
that fellow movement members were a fake, right?
MR. HORTON: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. Yes.
Q. And in your mind did you believe it was possible that some
of those people were CCP spies?
A. I did not have --
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I apologize for interrupting,
but Mr. Guo cannot hear that interpreter.
THE COURT: If the interpreter can hold the microphone
close so everyone even in the back can hear what you're saying
in Mandarin and in English.
THE INTERPRETER: What about now?
THE COURT: Why don't you say something.
THE INTERPRETER: Can interpreter ask the witness to
repeat her answer?
THE COURT: Is that loud enough?
MS. SHROFF: Thank you, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Yes, you may ask her to repeat
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1272
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1 Jenny Li- Cross
her answer.
A. These two person who were secretly taking the photos had
connection with one of the leader, Michelle of course, they had
some connections.
MR. SCHIRICK: Move to strike as non-responsive, your
Honor.
THE COURT: You said that you believed that some of
the people were fake?
THE WITNESS: I did not mean that.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, I believe that wasn't the
last question that was pending. The question that I ask was
about CCP.
THE COURT: I'm going to strike my own question and
the answer that was given.
MR. SCHIRICK: Thank you, your Honor. Perhaps I could
pose the question slightly differently.
Q. Based on your experience with the protest in L.A., were you
concerned that some of the protestors you were with were CCP
spies?
A. I did not have suspicions, suspicious, until the two person
started to taking photos secretly. One was C-H-U, X-I-N-Z-E.
The other one was Cici --
THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter lost part of the net
name.
THE COURT: If you can ask her to repeat that then.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1273
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1 Jenny Li- Cross
A. G-E-P-E-I-P-I, Guo Wengui knows the person.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, move to strike the last
portion of that answer.
MR. HORTON: Objection.
THE COURT: I'm going to strike the portion that
begins with the word "Guo."
MR. SCHIRICK: Thank you, your Honor.
Q. So it's fair to say that you did have suspicions after you
observed what these two individuals did, right?
MR. HORTON: Objection, asked and answered.
THE COURT: I'm going to permit the question and the
answer. Go ahead.
A. Yes.
THE COURT: Were those two people part of the protest?
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: Do you believe that they were pretending
to be part of the protest?
THE WITNESS: The two person did not participate in
the protest. They came from somewhere else.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. But you met these people?
A. I did at the scene.
Q. I'm sorry.
A. I did at the scene.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1274
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1 Jenny Li- Cross
Q. At the scene. Now let's talk about the Texas protest.
Did certain behavior at the protest there concern you
too?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, you testified before that you advanced a significant
amount of money for the Texas protest, correct?
A. I did not say I was given a lot of money. They owe me
money.
Q. When I say advanced, to be clear, I mean that you paid for
things at the Texas protest, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were not reimbursed by the farm, correct?
A. No.
Q. You received no money from the farm to repay you, correct?
A. I didn't.
Q. And you were upset about that, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you advanced that money because Sara Wei asked you to,
right?
A. Wang Lei.
Q. Is that Sara Wei?
A. Feng Quing Peng and somebody else. A new name, X-I-A-O,
F-E-N-G, Z-H-U, another person S-U-N, W-E-I, R-O-N-G.
Q. Okay. And you understood at the time that you paid for
those expenses that Sara Wei would reimburse you, right?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1275
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO1 Jenny Li- Cross
THE COURT: Do you mean pay her back?
MR. SCHIRICK: Thank you, your Honor, for the
suggestion.
Q. That Sara Wei would pay you back?
A. All the three person Sara Wei stated that they would pay me
back. They would pay me back several days after the event.
Q. And they didn't do that, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, you stopped investing in any projects with Mr. Guo by
the end of 2020; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And by 2021, you became a critic of many people in the
movement, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And, in fact, beginning in February of 2021, you posted
live streams that were critical of certain people in the
movement, correct?
A. It was, I used the media of GTV or I would say Guo TV.
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1276
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Thank you.
Before you live-streamed in February of 2021, no one
from the movement attacked you for not participating in the
movement; correct?
A. I don't think I understand the question very much.
Q. Okay. Let me try again.
By the end of 2020, you stopped participating in
movement activities, right?
A. Yes.
Q. When you stopped participating in movement activities, no
one attacked you for not participating; correct?
A. We did not have a physical office, we only used all our
conveniences. If I did not post my -- my communications
online, nobody would see me.
Q. My question is you weren't criticized for not
participating, right?
A. I'm sorry, I still don't understand. I don't understand.
What do you mean by criticize of me?
Q. You testified that by the end of 2020, you stopped
participating in movement activities.
A. It was -- the activity was just online. If you don't post
online, nobody would -- nobody knows that you were -- you were
active.
Q. Okay. So no one bothered you when you weren't active,
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1277
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
right?
A. Nobody could see -- we could not see each other, so who
would bother me?
Q. So the answer is no?
A. I don't know how to answer this question.
Q. Okay.
A. It's just an online scam. If I did not go online, nobody
would approach me.
Q. Fair enough.
Now, when you did go online in February of 2021, you
accused people of swindling you; correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You pointed to specific individuals, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Including Mulan?
A. Yes.
Q. Including Sara Wei?
A. Yes.
Q. And in these live streams, you were critical of the offline
people that you had met in person, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Because you didn't like their behavior; correct?
A. It was not that I disliked them. I mean, their activity
was wrong.
Q. Fair enough.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1278
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
And it was wrong because you felt they tricked you
into paying for expenses on the protest trips, right?
A. Not totally correct.
Q. That was among the reasons, right? That was part of the
reason?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And you posted or streamed this critical -- or this
criticism many times, right?
A. From 40 to 41.
MR. SCHIRICK: I'm sorry, could the interpreter repeat
that?
INTERPRETER SHI FENG: From 40 to 41.
Q. I'm sorry, what do those numbers refer to?
A. I used Guo TV to criticize those offline people, including
Mulan and some others. The times were from 40 to 41.
Q. So 40 -- it was done 40 or 41 times?
A. Yes, the live stream, 40 to 41.
Q. Understood. Thank you for the clarification.
And when you did this, you weren't kicked out of the
movement, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Am I correct that you were not kicked out of the movement?
MR. SCHIRICK: And if we can ask that the witness say
correct or incorrect.
MR. HORTON: Objection.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1279
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
MR. SCHIRICK: I'm not sure how else to do it, your
Honor.
THE COURT: You may ask her to answer correct or
incorrect. You may ask her that.
Q. The previous question is withdrawn.
If you can please answer correct or incorrect: After
you live-streamed 40 or 41 times, you weren't kicked out of the
movement; correct?
A. I was kicked out of Guo TV.
Q. And when did that happen?
A. I don't recall exactly. I would say from March 20 to
March 21.
INTERPRETER LIAN WANG: Your Honor, can we interpreter
switch?
THE COURT: Yes.
INTERPRETER LIAN WANG: Okay.
Q. Okay. Now, a time came when you reached out to Mr. Guo
directly about the issue of repayment of expenses, right?
A. Incorrect.
Q. You never spoke to Mr. Guo about the reimbursement issue?
A. I had speak with him regarding the reimbursement, but I had
never talked with him about the refund and return the money
back.
MR. SCHIRICK: I'm sorry, can I just have the
interpreter repeat that answer? I didn't catch it all.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1280
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
THE INTERPRETER: Okay. I'll repeat.
I had speak with him regarding the reimbursement
money, but I had never talked with him about the refund money.
Q. So you don't recall talking to him at all about the refund?
A. Which exactly refund do you mean?
Q. We discussed before the fact that you were not -- you were
not paid back for the expenses during the protest trips.
A. Correct.
Q. And do you recall discussing that with Mr. Guo?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And am I correct that Mr. Guo identified people in
the movement who he believed could help you, right?
A. Would you please repeat your question?
Q. Mr. Guo identified Mulan as someone who could help you with
getting paid back; correct?
A. Yes, of course he knew.
MR. SCHIRICK: Just one moment, your Honor.
(Counsel conferred)
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, may we have a brief
sidebar?
THE COURT: Yes.
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1281
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
(At sidebar)
MS. SHROFF: I apologize, your Honor, but I was told
that the translation of the last question and the last answer
was totally inappropriate.
There are interpreters sitting in the courtroom, maybe
one of them could verify the translation was correct. I don't
know, I don't speak the language, so I have no way to verify if
Mr. Guo's concern is correct or not.
THE COURT: All right. So let's have both of these
interpreters step up.
MS. SHROFF: Sorry about that.
MR. FINKEL: Should we just go back to the other
interpreter?
THE COURT: I want to hear from them.
(Interpreter present)
THE COURT: Hi there. What is your name?
INTERPRETER SHI FENG: Shi.
THE COURT: And what have you been doing during this
trial?
INTERPRETER SHI FENG: I've been doing simultaneous
interpreter for the Southern District court of New York to
provide the simultaneous translation to Mr. Guo, the defendant.
THE COURT: Have you also been listening to the
interpreters who have been interpreting for the witness?
INTERPRETER SHI FENG: Yes, I have.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1282
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
THE COURT: Do you consider that the interpreter
interpreted the last question and answer correctly?
INTERPRETER SHI FENG: I do not.
THE COURT: Can you tell me what you believe was
incorrect about the interpretation?
INTERPRETER SHI FENG: Yes. It was incorrect.
THE COURT: I'm asking you why was it incorrect?
INTERPRETER SHI FENG: Because after I talked to my
colleague -- where's my colleague? Tuo, can you get here?
I'm sorry. After we --
INTERPRETER TUO HUANG: Your Honor, to be honest --
THE COURT: Actually, I'd like to speak with her first
and then you. Actually, I'd like you to step back.
(Interpreter Tuo Huang not present)
INTERPRETER SHI FENG: The part I heard that she --
the first time she translated this question, she didn't
translate the word "movement." The question, I believe, is
Mr. Guo had identified people from the movement. She just
translate that word as a general crowd instead of movement,
general population instead of movement; she didn't say the
movement. The second time when she translate the question, she
translate as: Can Mr. Guo identify people move forward, I
believe that's what she -- and that's not what the attorney ask
at all.
THE COURT: Okay.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1283
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
INTERPRETER SHI FENG: And she omit the person, Mulan,
in the attorney's question. I did not hear the word "Mulan" in
her translation.
THE COURT: All righty. If you'll step back.
MS. SHROFF: So, your Honor, that is what Mr. Guo
raised to me. He said that the interpreter never said the word
"Mulan" in the question.
THE COURT: I even noticed that myself.
MR. FINKEL: So did the government.
THE COURT: Okay. So we're going to have to excuse
her.
What about the other gentleman, is he in the room?
MR. HORTON: He's still here, your Honor.
MR. FINKEL: Yeah. We can just go back with him, that
would be the government's proposal.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. FINKEL: He's right there in the back of the
courtroom.
MS. SHROFF: Maybe -- your Honor, may I make a
suggestion?
THE COURT: Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Maybe we can just have the interpreters
who are sitting and doing the official translation, one of them
work as a check interpreter. In one of my other cases, the
judge, Judge Maas, had a check interpreter so that if some
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1284
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
interpretation was going wrong, they would alert the Court. We
can try that. I don't know.
THE COURT: I am not familiar with that procedure.
It's not one that I want to adopt.
MS. SHROFF: Okay.
MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, one question that might be
helpful as we consider next steps is how much longer does
Mr. Schirick have left?
MR. SCHIRICK: It's very difficult to tell, your
Honor. Depends on how quickly we can get through this. With
an English speaker, I would have been done probably half an
hour ago. But it's just very slow-going because of the
interpretation.
MR. FINKEL: The government's view is we've sort of
covered a lot of this ground yesterday. That's our view. But,
I mean, do you think you have an hour left? Fifteen minutes?
MR. SCHIRICK: Mr. Finkel, I'm not trying to be cute.
I can't tell you how long it's going to take because it depends
on how difficult the translation issues are.
MS. SHROFF: Maybe you could go to the interpreter and
ask him if he can work without swapping out.
MR. FINKEL: Yeah, that's fine.
THE COURT: Yes. Well, I'm going to direct him to do
that.
MR. FINKEL: Even better.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1285
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
THE COURT: But I do need for us to call the
interpreters' office to let this individual know that she will
not be interpreting any further. I'm going to direct --
actually, let's have him come up.
MR. FINKEL: So, your Honor, with defense counsel
here, that interpreter, as is required, because we are not
permitted to use the court interpreters, is someone we ordered,
so -- because that's what the requirement is. But we'll note
that we shouldn't use that interpreter in the future; although
I don't think we have any other Mandarin language speakers. We
might have one or two, but probably not. We'll see.
(Interpreter Lian Wang present)
THE COURT: Yes. I'm going to need for you to do the
interpreting for the rest of the day by yourself.
INTERPRETER LIAN WANG: Okay.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. FINKEL: Thank you.
INTERPRETER LIAN WANG: Right now, from now?
THE COURT: Yes. Excuse me, sir. If you would just
let your colleague know that that is what we're going to do.
INTERPRETER LIAN WANG: Okay.
THE COURT: Thank you.
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1286
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
(In open court)
THE COURT: You may continue.
MR. SCHIRICK: Can we please have the court reporter
read back the last question.
(Record read)
THE COURT: I would like the interpreter to interpret
that question, please.
A. That happened six months later.
INTERPRETER LIAN WANG: Your Honor, can I ask to speak
with you?
THE COURT: Yes. Step up, counsel.
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1287
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
(At sidebar)
INTERPRETER LIAN WANG: Since the other interpreter
has left, I believe she made some mistake in previous two or
three questions when she took over, since she has left.
THE COURT: Is there any application before the Court?
MS. SHROFF: Yes, your Honor. We would like a break.
We need to go back and look at the questions that were posed
before and re-pose them.
MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, the government would submit
Mr. Schirick can just ask those questions again. And the
government doesn't object to striking the answers with respect
to the interpreter; I think there are just three or four
questions.
THE COURT: Well, I think that we need this gentleman
to identify which questions were misinterpreted.
MR. FINKEL: Yes. I think there were about three or
four questions that were posed through that interpreter. And
so the government doesn't object to an application, if the
defense makes it, to strike those answers and those questions.
And we can essentially -- Mr. Schirick can go two sentences
back in his outline.
MS. SHROFF: But we need to know the mistakes.
THE COURT: We don't know which questions and which
answers.
MR. FINKEL: Understood.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1288
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
THE COURT: So we are going to have to take a break,
and he will take a look at the transcript and let us know which
questions and which answers were not interpreted properly.
MR. FINKEL: Understood.
(In open court)
THE COURT: Members of the jury, we're going to take a
pause. Remember that you're not permitted to discuss the case
amongst yourselves; don't let anyone discuss the case in your
presence. In addition, do not read, listen, or watch anything
about the case.
I'll call you back as soon as I can.
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: Ma'am, you may step out. I'm going to
call you back soon. Do not discuss the case.
(Witness not present)
THE COURT: But I would like the interpreter to
remain.
Would the interpreter step forward, please. And so I
would like you, along with the attorneys, working along with
the court reporter, to go back over the questions and answers
that were given during this cross-examination this morning, and
to identify where you believe that there were incorrect
interpretations. You'll do that with the attorneys.
We'll take a break.
(Recess)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1289
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
THE COURT: Please be seated.
Have the parties reached an agreement with regard to
how to go forward?
MR. SCHIRICK: Yes. I think we've identified where
the mistranslations started, so I know where to go back to,
your Honor, to put the question again to the witness.
THE COURT: Okay. So I won't be hearing objections to
the reasking of these questions; correct?
MR. HORTON: That's right, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right.
Then please have the jurors brought in.
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1290
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
(Jury present)
THE COURT: You may be seated.
(Witness present)
THE COURT: And you may continue your questions.
MR. SCHIRICK: Thank you, your Honor.
THE COURT: Remember that you're still under oath.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Now, Mr. Guo identified people in the movement for you who
could help to get you paid back for the expenses, right?
A. I don't quite understand someone in the movement.
Q. How about someone --
(Counsel conferred)
Q. By "movement," I mean someone in the Phoenix farm, right?
A. I believe the context is wrong. There's no Phoenix.
Q. Did Mr. Guo point you to people he believed could help get
you paid back?
A. He did not point that out. He let me choose whom could pay
me back and he gave me two choices.
Q. Okay. Did one of those people include Mulan?
A. Chang Dao and Mulan.
INTERPRETER LIAN WANG: By Chang Dao, mean Long
Island.
Q. Is that Long Island David?
A. Yes, Xiaqi Dong.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1291
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
MR. SCHIRICK: Could I just ask the interpreter to
please raise the microphone.
INTERPRETER SHI FENG: Sorry.
Q. And is that person also known as Long Island David?
A. No.
Q. Is that person known by any other name?
A. Chang Dao Ge. In English it means Long Island brother.
Q. Long Island brother; correct? Just to make sure I heard
it.
A. Correct.
Q. And I'm correct, aren't I, that Mr. Guo also asked for the
names of other people who needed to be paid back expenses?
A. (In English) No.
Q. Were there other people you were aware of besides you who
needed to be paid back expenses?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you discuss that with Mr. Guo?
A. I talked to him about it.
Q. And you don't know what he did with that information,
right?
A. I don't know what he did.
Q. And you never asked him to personally pay you back, right?
THE WITNESS: Can I answer?
THE COURT: Go ahead.
A. Mr. Guo told me over the phone that he could use the money
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1292
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
in his own pocket to pay me back. I said no, it's not
necessary. I also told him there are other people who would
need to be paid back. I hope they could be paid back in normal
way.
Q. Okay. Now, you testified earlier that by the end of 2020,
you believed that GTV was a scam, right?
A. Yes.
Q. So that was your belief at the time that you spoke to
Mr. Guo -- withdrawn.
So that was your belief at the time you communicated
with Mr. Guo in February of 2021, right?
A. Yes.
Q. But you didn't say that to him when you spoke with him,
right?
A. You mean my suspicion?
Q. You didn't tell him your suspicion when you communicated
with him in February of 2021, right?
A. I was afraid of telling him that.
Q. So the answer is yes; correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You didn't tell him that you were concerned that you might
not get your money back, right?
A. I say that. By the way, whom did I talk to?
Q. I'm sorry. Can I have that answer --
INTERPRETER SHI FENG: The witness was asking you the
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1293
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
question.
A. Can you slow down.
INTERPRETER SHI FENG: She's saying can you slow down.
Q. Of course.
So just to be clear, you didn't express those concerns
to him when you spoke to him, right?
A. I did not say that.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, I'm looking at the time.
It may be an appropriate place to stop for the lunch break.
THE COURT: All righty. So we will take our half-hour
break now, members of the jury. You'll return back to the
courtroom at noon.
Remember that you're not allowed to discuss the case;
you're not allowed to read, view, or listen to anything about
the case from any source whatsoever.
(Jury not present)
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1294
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
THE COURT: Please be seated.
Is there anything before we start at noon?
MR. FINKEL: Yes, your Honor. The witness is here.
THE COURT: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You should
step out, ma'am. Don't discuss the case.
(Witness not present)
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, I'm reluctant to raise this
at all, but the government is being mindful of what your Honor
instructed counsel in your robing room last week.
Last night and this morning we told members of the
defense team that our next witness is traveling from Australia,
and that our intention is to get her back home on Friday, okay,
if not beforehand.
We also have another witness, a civilian, who's here
from Texas and traveling next week, and we're hopeful to get
him on and off the stand by the end of this week. Defense
counsel knows this. I talked to one of the members of the
defense team this morning.
I understand that there are issues with this
particular witness and interpreter and technology; they are
outside of everyone's control.
When your Honor permitted counsel to review the
transcript, I made a suggestion to one of the defense team
members as to how to make the process more efficient. And the
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1295
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
response that I received was it's almost as if the government
has a witness scheduling issue, somewhat of a sarcastic tone to
it. I'm reluctant to even raise this at all, I really am,
because this is the kind of thing that the parties should just
deal with and work with each other on.
The point, your Honor, that I'm making is that we
believe there is sufficient time for the direct and cross of
these two witnesses and for this witness to be finished such
that their travel can be maintained. And so, your Honor, what
I would ask your Honor to consider, okay, and with the
understanding that some of what happened today is outside of
the parties' control, but also with the understanding that some
of the cross-examination has -- in other witnesses has been
considerably long, I would ask your Honor to consider if it's
okay with the Court and okay with the jury — and I mentioned
this to one of the defense team members this morning, that
perhaps tomorrow and, if necessary, on Friday we sit a little
bit longer.
And I can also tell the Court — again, reluctantly —
that the government is behind where it expected to be in terms
of the progress of this case, several days behind, to be
completely candid with you. We are juggling our witnesses in
scheduling. We have witnesses coming from outside of the
country next week, which is presenting serious logistical
obstacles. But we are doing our job and we are managing our
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1296
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
witnesses and the jury's time and your Honor's time as best as
we can.
And so the application from the government is, one, to
please consider sitting a little bit later tomorrow and Friday,
if necessary; and two, to just be aware of — again, with
reluctance, your Honor — what appears to be some sort of tactic
— I don't know how else to say it, and I'm sorry to say it — to
delay this witness or other witnesses in light of the travel
concerns that we communicated in good faith to the defense.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, first of all, we have no
issue whatsoever with the government's application to sit later
tomorrow and Friday if the government believes that that's
going to ease the travel issues that its witnesses have. We're
more than happy to do that to accommodate. And if the
government has other suggestions, we're open to those as well.
I think, in our view, I'm not sure how anyone who's
been watching the cross-examination of this witness could
believe anything other than that it is a slog through the mud
because of the communication issues and the witness's inability
or reluctance to directly answer questions.
As your Honor knows, you've had to strike numerous
statements from the record, both yesterday and today, because
the witness is nonresponsive. That is neither -- that is
clearly not the fault of the defense nor is it the fault of the
prosecution.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1297
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
So if what we have here is scheduling delays that are
being exacerbated by this particular witness going now, that
certainly can't be held against the defense in any way, shape,
or form. And clearly there's nothing intentional about it.
And frankly, that suggestion, I think, is -- I know from our
perspective I think that's off base, to put it mildly.
So we're happy to work with the prosecution to
accommodate the witnesses.
Mr. Finkel did not raise this with me before he raised
it with the Court; perhaps he raised it with someone else, I'm
not sure. But we're happy to try to work out the schedule and
accommodate the witness's travel.
THE COURT: So I have handled hundreds of trials. And
I've concluded that the cross-examination here, putting aside
technical difficulties, putting aside this witness's
limitations, the cross-examination has been atypically slow,
and I would like you to be more efficient in your
cross-examination.
I'm going to ask the jurors if they can remain later.
Would it help if we also remained later today?
MR. FINKEL: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. I will ask them.
Of course, you know, they've planned their lives
around the schedule that I set and we'll just see.
MR. FINKEL: We understand that, your Honor.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1298
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO2 Jenny Li - Cross
And with respect to Mr. Schirick, I understand what
he's saying and I get it. I mean, I understand there's been
difficulties with this particular witness. What I was
mentioning was a comment that was made when we were checking
the transcript, which suggested to me that it was part of some
broader effort. But I hope very strongly that we are all past
that.
And I just want to be completely clear, as I have been
to many members of the defense team — as all four of us have
been — we want to work efficiently, responsibly, and
professionally with the defense to promote an efficient
presentation of evidence for the jury to decide. That's the
government's goal.
MR. SCHIRICK: We obviously share that, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right, then. So we will restart at
noon.
MR. FINKEL: Thank you, your Honor.
(Luncheon recess)
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1299
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3
AFTERNOON SESSION
12:00 p.m.
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: Please be seated. Would you have the
jurors brought in, please, before the witness.
MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, I don't believe the
interpreters are here.
THE COURT: Where are they? You may be seated.
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Please be seated. Members of the jury,
unfortunately we have fallen behind in our schedule, and I'm
trying to figure out a way to catch up. So I'm going to ask
whether I can add for today, tomorrow, and Friday an hour to
your day. I know you've planned out your schedules, and I know
that it's possible that you might not be able to accommodate me
on this. One way of doing it could be that we go from 9:30 to
noon, take a half an hour, and then go until 3:15. Is that
something that you would be able to do?
JUROR: Today, tomorrow and Friday?
THE COURT: I understand alternate one is not able to
do that, not today, nor tomorrow or Friday.
JUROR: I have a shoot shortly after court.
THE COURT: You have an obligation after court?
JUROR: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. What about coming in at 9 a.m.,
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1300
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3
would that be something --
JUROR: I could do that.
THE COURT: How late could you stay?
JUROR: Three. I have a video shoot in the city, so I
already have clients lined up for the rest of the week.
THE COURT: So you're saying starting at nine, and
we'd have our break let us say at 11:30 to 12, and then we
could go to 3 p.m.?
JUROR: That works for me if it works for everybody
else.
THE COURT: Anybody that cannot do that? So starting
tomorrow we'll start at nine, and you're leaving at three, but
it's for these three days. So, thank you, I appreciate your
flexibility.
All righty. Let's have the witness return to the
stand. Remember, ma'am, that you're still under oath. You may
continue the inquiry.
MR. SCHIRICK: Thank you, your Honor.
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Ms. Li, do you recall that at one point members of the farm
offered to pay you back for the expenses?
A. Can I talk now?
THE COURT: Yes. Go ahead. One moment, if you could
just aim your microphone a little bit more to your left, both
of you, because of the feedback. Go ahead.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1301
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3
A. First, Wei Lihong, W-E-I, L-I-H-O-N-G; second, S-U-N, W-E-I
R-O-N-G; third, Wei Lei, W-E-I, L-E-I; fourth, Wen Yang, W-E-N,
Y-A-N-G; fifth, Sherry; sixth, An Hong, A-N, H-O-N-G; seventh,
Guo Xiaotian, G-U-O, X-I-A-O-T-I-A-N; eighth, Mulan, M-U-L-A-N;
last one, Tai Wang Daniu, D-A-N-I-U.
Q. Did time come when you declined to let -- withdrawn.
Did a time come when you declined to allow them to pay
you back?
A. Yes.
Q. In fact, you declined because you wanted to stay involved
until, according to you, the U.S. government could help recover
the money, right?
A. It's not correct.
Q. Do you recall telling Mr. Horton that when you met with him
in March of this year?
A. I said because they wanted me to sign an agreement and I
did not want to do that.
Q. My question was, do you recall telling Mr. Horton when you
met with him in March of this year that you declined because
you wanted to stay involved so the U.S. government could help
you get your money back?
A. I did not say I was expecting U.S. government to pay me
back. I was saying I wanted to get the money back through the
U.S. government. I said I did not want to take the money from
the hands of scammers.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1302
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3
Q. So you declined, correct?
A. I decline because he wanted me to sign an agreement.
Q. And that was in 2021, right?
A. 2021.
Q. Now, let's talk about your H Coin investment. You invested
$5,700 in H Coin, right?
A. Which entity?
Q. You testified yesterday that you purchased H Coin, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was for $5,700, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was in July of 2021, right?
A. No.
Q. When was it?
A. June.
Q. So by June of 2021, you believed that any investment
offered by Mr. Guo was a scam, right?
A. Yes.
Q. So at the time you bought H Coin, you didn't expect to make
any profit on it, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you assumed you would lose the money, right?
A. No.
Q. You thought you were going to get the money back?
A. Two weeks after that I ask the receiver of the money to
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1303
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3
return the money.
Q. Understood. That wasn't my question. My question was,
before you purchased the H Coin, you assumed you wouldn't get
that money back, right, since it was a scam?
A. I was coerced into purchasing that.
Q. But you didn't lose money, right?
A. Correct, I lost $60.
Q. On a transaction fee, ma'am?
A. Yes.
Q. And you asked for a refund?
A. Yes.
Q. And you got it, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And Miles Guo didn't attack you for asking for a refund,
right?
THE INTERPRETER: Can the interpreter have the
question again.
Q. Miles Guo didn't attack you for asking for a refund, did
he?
A. I did not send the money to Miles Guo. I send to somebody
else in the farm.
Q. Right. But your testimony, right, is that Miles Guo is
behind all of this, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And he didn't criticize you after you asked for a refund,
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1304
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3
right?
A. I've barred him from my social media.
Q. Are you aware that Miles Guo criticized you for asking for
H Coin refund?
A. I never saw him.
Q. Is the answer no, ma'am?
MR. HORTON: Objection, your Honor. We've been
through this.
THE COURT: Are you asking me to strike the answer?
What is the request?
MR. SCHIRICK: I would move to strike that answer as
non-responsive.
MR. HORTON: There's a pending objection to the
question as asked and answered.
MR. SCHIRICK: The previous answer was not responsive.
THE COURT: The previous answer was not responsive, so
I'm going to strike that, as well as the recent answer which is
non-responsive. Please read back the question. I'm asking the
reporter.
(Record was read)
A. Can I have the last question again.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, may I ask, before you
translate, sir, can we just ensure that the instruction from
the Court is also being translated. I'll just ask the Court to
make sure the instruction from you is also being interpreted
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1305
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3
back to the witness.
THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter did.
THE COURT: Okay.
A. I don't know that.
Q. Thank you. I'd like to talk about G/Clubs just for a
moment. You testified on direct that you bought a $20,000
G/Clubs membership, right?
A. Which entity?
Q. G/Clubs.
A. Yes.
Q. Now, you testified on direct that you didn't get anything
for your G/Clubs membership, right?
A. I don't think I understand the question.
Q. Did you testify that you didn't get anything for the money
that you spent on G/Clubs?
A. Yes.
Q. You understood before you bought it that it offered a
discount on certain items, right?
A. What do you mean by discount?
Q. It allowed you to pay less than some other people?
A. Yes. The member for G/Club was from 10 to 50,000.
Q. Okay. How much of a discount?
A. Ten percent of 10,000; 20 percent on 20, 000; 30 percent on
30,000; 40 percent on 40,000 and 50 percent on 50,000.
Q. And you purchased the $20,000 membership giving you a 20
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1306
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3
percent discount, right?
THE INTERPRETER: Your Honor, interpreter need to
verify some details.
A. When you purchase the membership of the G/Club, you can get
some discount when you purchase from G Fashion. The discount
applied on that operation.
Q. Did you ever try to use that discount?
A. Never.
Q. Am I right that one of the benefits of G/Clubs was that it
allowed members to live stream on GTV?
A. No.
Q. Could anyone live stream on GTV?
A. I believe there was some misunderstanding in your question.
Can I still answer your question?
Q. Sure. One of the benefits of G/Clubs was that it gave you
a certain amount of hours to live stream on GTV, right?
A. Everyone can get online of GTV. As GTV member, you can
apply your card to live stream for two hours.
Q. And that card was a G/Clubs card, right?
A. There's only a name. There's no physical card at all.
Q. Ma'am, you raised the idea of a card, right?
A. Each of us had a number. It's indicated as G/Club card.
Q. Understood. And it was that number that gave you the
ability to live stream on GTV, right?
A. This counsel does not understand the G/Clubs.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1307
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3
MR. SCHIRICK: Move to strike as non-responsive, your
Honor.
THE COURT: The answer is stricken.
Q. Ms. Li, without your membership to G/Club, you couldn't
have live stream on GTV, right?
A. I want to talk to the judge.
THE COURT: Ma'am, the way that it works is that the
lawyer ask the questions and you must give the answers.
THE WITNESS: Okay, but I don't think I get the point
of his question.
THE COURT: Can you rephrase the question.
Q. You testified that you had a G/Clubs number, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And in order to do live streams on GTV, you had to use that
G/Clubs number, right?
A. Still not correct. You did not ask the question right.
MR. SCHIRICK: Move to strike as non-responsive, your
Honor.
THE COURT: The answer is stricken. Ma'am, did you
receive certain benefits as a member of G/Clubs?
THE WITNESS: No.
Q. The only way you could live stream on GTV was using your
G/Clubs ID, right?
A. I was able to do live stream for two hours.
Q. As a G/Clubs member?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1308
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3
A. Yes.
Q. Thank you. And you used that two hours of live stream,
right?
A. I could use two hours from 40 to 41 days.
Q. As you testified before, you did use those?
A. I would not say it was used.
Q. You live streamed, didn't you, ma'am? You testified to
that earlier today?
A. I got online everyday, but I don't think you were right in
a way answering these questions. Can you ask the question in a
different way.
Q. I think I've asked the question multiple different ways.
My question now is, you testified earlier today that you live
streamed on GTV, right?
MR. HORTON: Objection, your Honor. This question has
been asked and answered several times.
THE COURT: I will allow her to answer this question.
A. Yes.
Q. Thank you. Now, you testified that you purchased your
G/Clubs membership on November 9 of 2020, right?
A. I don't recall the exact date. It's sometime like that.
Q. Let's pull up what's in evidence as Government Exhibit
VH-9.
Ms. Li, do you see the document in front of you?
A. Let me take a look at it. Yes, I saw it before.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1309
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3
Q. And you can see that this shows that the membership was
purchased in November of 2020, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you recall seeing the G/Clubs -- withdrawn.
Do you remember recall seeing Mr. Guo's video
announcing the launch of G/Clubs?
A. Yes, I saw it.
Q. Okay. And can we please just briefly pull up Government
Exhibit C148-V1 in evidence.
Ma'am, while we're doing that, did you watch the video
when it first came out?
A. I was in Texas. The time was October when I saw Mr. Guo's
video about the G/Clubs.
Q. Can we please briefly play the clip, and I ask the witness
to identify this as the video that she's referring to.
(Media played)
Q. Ma'am, did you recognize that audio recording as being from
the launch of G/Clubs?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Now, you testified yesterday that you took out a mortgage
on your house so that you could invest in GTV, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you first learned as you testified to yesterday about
GTV in April of 2020, correct?
A. I did not get the question clearly. Can you give me the
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1310
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3
date again.
Q. You testified that you first learned about the GTV
investment opportunity in April of 2020?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, ma'am, isn't it true that you took out the mortgage on
your home in February of 2020?
A. Yes.
Q. So you didn't even know about the GTV investment
opportunity when you took out the mortgage on your home, right?
A. After the Lunar new year of 2020, Guo had been promoting
the G/Club, the GTV, claiming that was a new media.
MR. SCHIRICK: Move to strike as non-responsive, your
Honor.
THE COURT: The answer is stricken.
MR. HORTON: Objection.
Q. Ma'am, when you testified that you took out a mortgage in
order to buy GTV, you were lying, weren't you?
A. Everything I say was true. Guo had been saying that he
would set up a GTV from some other people.
Q. You told us before, yesterday and again today, and then
again about 30 seconds ago that the first time you heard about
the GTV investment opportunity was in April of 2020, right?
A. Not correct. You interpreted it wrong.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, may we have a brief
sidebar?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1311
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3
THE COURT: Yes.
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1312
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3
(At the sidebar)
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I apologize, but I think the
translator is mixing up GTV and G/Clubs. In the questions that
he is translating, he's not translating GTV as GTV and G/Club
as G/Club. Mr. Schirick may want to move on anyway, but I
think there is a jumble. It's not a translation jumble. I
think the translator is just not appreciating the distinction
between G/Club and GTV.
THE COURT: Why is it that you think that?
MS. SHROFF: Because I can hear GTV and G/Club. That
much I can understand, and I think I'm right.
MR. FINKEL: This is a rare thing to say, but I agree,
your Honor. And so maybe Mr. Schirick can clarify for the
interpreter. My question is about G/Club, and then ask the
question of the interpreter.
MR. SCHIRICK: Maybe we can bring the interpreter over
to make that point.
MS. SHROFF: May I just confer with him? May I confer
with my colleague?
THE COURT: Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Eventually they all agree with me, your
Honor.
MR. FINKEL: Let's not go that far. Please write that
down.
(Pause)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1313
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, it might make sense for us to
just tell the translator that G/Clubs, GTV, Investment and
Private Placement Investment are all four different phrases,
and he should be mindful of those; or we can just hope he will
be mindful and leave it up to whoever was --
MR. FINKEL: There's a difference between G/Club and
GTV, and I think that should be pointed out for the translator.
Investment, Private Placement, that might be different in her
mind because I think Ms. Li thinks it's all one investment for
Mr. Guo.
MS. SHROFF: What he's translating, I just want him to
translate the words accurately. I'm not suggesting the answer.
THE COURT: I'm going to ask him to come over. I just
wanted to point out that G/Club is one entity. GTV is a
different entity. And so if you'll be careful to make sure
that you're accurately --
THE INTERPRETER: Okay. GTV. G/Club. Okay.
MR. FINKEL: How much more does defense counsel have?
MR. SCHIRICK: Very little.
THE COURT: Oh, good.
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1314
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3
(In open court)
MR. SCHIRICK: No further questions.
THE COURT: Okay. Redirect?
MR. HORTON: No further questions, your Honor.
THE COURT: Thank you very much. You may step down.
(Witness excused)
THE COURT: You may call your next witness.
MR. FERGENSON: The United States calls Ya Li.
YA LI,
called as a witness by the Government,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
THE COURT: Please state your name and spell it.
THE WITNESS: Ya Li, Y-A, L-I.
THE COURT: I need for you to speak into the
microphone, to speak up so that even the people in the back can
hear you.
THE WITNESS: My name is Ya Li.
THE COURT: I need for you to speak louder than that.
Please be seated. Draw the microphone close.
THE WITNESS: Okay. My name is Ya Li.
THE COURT: You can sit down. Bring the microphone
close to you. You may inquire.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I wasn't sure if she was
sworn in.
THE COURT: Yes, she was just sworn. Go ahead.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1315
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Good afternoon, Ms. Li.
A. Good afternoon, Mr. Fergenson.
Q. Is English your native language?
A. No.
Q. If you don't understand something, please let us know,
okay?
A. Okay.
Q. What country do you live in?
A. Australia.
Q. What do you do for work?
A. Accountant.
Q. And if you can, Ms. Li, I'd ask you to try to keep your
voice up.
A. Okay.
Q. Were you ever a supporter of Miles Guo?
A. Yes.
Q. What other names, if any, did you use as a Miles Guo
supporter?
A. Mulan Xiao Ching.
Q. What did other supporters call you?
A. Mulan.
Q. What did Guo call you?
A. Mulan sister.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1316
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, could we please play for
the jury what's in evidence as Government Exhibit C40-V.
(Media played)
MR. FERGENSON: You can pause there.
Q. Ms. Li, who do you understand to be reference by Mulan?
A. That's me.
Q. You can take that down, Ms. Loftus.
Ms. Li. You said you were a supporter of Miles Guo.
Looking around the courtroom, do you see Miles Guo here today?
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, we'll stipulate that Miles
Guo is seated to my left, your Honor. Thank you.
THE COURT: Okay.
Q. Ms. Li, at a high level, what did you do for Miles Guo?
A. I'm the leader of G Translator and Iron Blood Group member
and the director of Rule of Law Foundation.
Q. And at a high level, what was G Translators?
A. G Translators is kind of a farm. It's volunteers group
doing translation jobs for Miles Guo.
Q. What was your position at G Translators?
A. I'm the leader in charge of this group.
Q. You mentioned the Iron Blood Group. At a high level, what
was the Iron Blood Group?
A. Iron Blood Group is the highest level of the Himalayas
Alliance.
Q. Who picked its members?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1317
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
A. Miles Guo.
Q. Was he a member?
A. Yes, he also one of the member.
Q. Who, if anyone, gave instructions to the Iron Blood Group
about investments?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. Who gave you instructions about investments?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. Who controlled investments related to the farms?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. Ms. Li, when you participated in the investment projects,
did you believe in them?
A. Yes, one hundred percent.
Q. What is your understanding of them now?
A. It's a scam.
Q. When you were a supporter of Miles Guo's movement, what was
your view of the movement at that time?
A. At that time this movement is for China democracy movement.
Our goal is to taking down CCP and build a new China, have
freedom, rule of law and democracy.
Q. What is your view of Miles Guo's movement now?
A. It's a scam.
Q. Did you invest yourself --
A. Yes.
Q. And have you --
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1318
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I'm sorry. The question was
not complete.
THE COURT: Did you complete your question?
Q. Did you invest yourself, Ms. Li?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: Are you asking whether she invested in her
personal capacity?
MR. FERGENSON: Correct, your Honor.
Q. Did you yourself invest in investments that Miles Guo
promoted?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you ever helped receive and transfer investor money as
part of working for Miles Guo?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever spend investor money on yourself?
A. No, never.
Q. On your family?
A. No, never.
Q. Why not?
A. Because that's the investors' money, not my money.
Q. If you had known that Miles Guo spent investor money on
himself and his family, would you have invested yourself?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1319
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
Q. If you had known that Miles Guo spent investor money on
himself and his family, would you have invested yourself?
A. No.
MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor. It assumes facts
not in evidence.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. No.
Q. If you had known that, would you have helped him with these
investment projects?
A. No.
Q. If you had known that, would you have been apart of the
movement?
A. No.
Q. So you said you live in Australia?
A. Yes.
Q. When did you come to the United States?
A. About four days ago.
Q. After you traveled to the United States, were you appointed
an attorney?
A. Yes.
Q. And did the government offer you an agreement?
A. Yes.
Q. What sort of agreement?
A. Non-prosecution agreement.
Q. What's your understanding about what a non-prosecution
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1320
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
agreement is?
A. I need to tell the truth and provide evidence, go to
meeting if required, do the testimony for crime.
Q. In exchange for that, what has the government promised to
do?
A. Not prosecute.
Q. And generally speaking, what prior conduct has the
government promised they won't prosecute you for?
A. I need to tell all the truth.
Q. And what prior conduct --
MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor. That's not
responsive and I move to strike.
THE COURT: The answer is stricken. If you can
rephrase the question.
Q. What prior conduct, Ms. Li, is the subject of your
non-prosecution agreement?
A. I need to tell the truth.
MS. SHROFF: Same objection, your Honor, and same
application.
THE COURT: The answer is nonresponsive. It is
stricken.
Q. What did you do that the government won't prosecute you
for, Ms. Li?
A. I need to tell the truth and provide evidence and go to the
meeting, go do testimony.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1321
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
MS. SHROFF: Objection, same objection and same
request that the response be stricken.
THE COURT: The objection is sustained. The response
is stricken.
Q. Ms. Li, I understand what you are required to do --
MS. SHROFF: Objection. That's not a question.
THE COURT: I'm waiting for the question. Go ahead.
Q. I'm just trying to ask what did you do in the past that is
the subject of the non-prosecution agreement?
What conduct does it cover?
A. Because I involve in Miles Guo's activities.
Q. What is your understanding as to whether the
non-prosecution agreement protects you from a prosecution for
perjury, obstruction of justice, or making false statements if
you lie here today?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. No.
Q. If you were to lie here, could the government tear up your
non-prosecution agreement?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you then be charged for your conduct?
A. Yes.
Q. Could the statements you made to the government be used
against you?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1322
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
A. Yes.
Q. And aside from the non-prosecution agreement, has the
government made you any promises?
A. No.
Q. Ms. Li, were you ever arrested?
A. No.
Q. Did you come to the United States a few days ago
voluntarily or involuntarily?
A. Voluntarily.
Q. Did the FBI assist you in entering the country?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you staying here permanently or leaving after your
testimony?
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, these are all leading
questions. I object because it's direct.
THE COURT: We can do it the very, very slow, slow
way, or I can permit some degree of leading.
MS. SHROFF: Fair enough, your Honor.
Q. Did you travel here -- I'm sorry, Ms. Li, are you staying
in the United States permanently or going back to Australia
after your testimony?
A. Back to Australia.
Q. Did you travel here alone or with others?
MS. SHROFF: Objection to relevance.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1323
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
Q. Did you travel here alone or with others?
A. With my daughter.
Q. What, if any, law enforcement traveled with you?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Objection to the leading.
THE COURT: Did any law enforcement travel with you?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
Q. To your understanding who paid for your flight and your
daughter's flight to the United States?
A. U.S. government.
Q. And who paid for your and your daughter's hotel in the
United States?
A. U.S. government.
Q. Do you know who paid for Australian law enforcement's
flight and hotel?
A. I don't know.
Q. Ms. Li, how old is your daughter?
A. Eleven.
Q. Has the FBI watched your daughter while you were in
meetings with the government?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, relevance. Your Honor, may we
have a sidebar.
THE COURT: Okay.
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1324
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
(At the sidebar)
THE COURT: How much more of this background?
MR. FERGENSON: Not very much, your Honor. I'm just
covering the areas of bias standard with a witness like this
who is sort of a cooperator in the case to cover this briefly.
I'll move on shortly.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, there's no relevance of her
traveling with her 11-year-old daughter. There's no relevance
to her age being part of anything before this jury. There's no
relevance at all -- I can understand relevance about who paid
the flight, sure; who's reimbursing it, sure; but who she
traveled with is not relevant in terms of the daughter. And
who and what her age is, is also not relevant.
The defense is now in a position it did not see itself
in. I don't need to cross somebody whose daughter is
accompanying them. Now I have to follow into that, so that's
why I objected. I don't think that's relevant. Maybe law
enforcement, I don't even see that, but those were the reasons
I objected. I don't think that it was proper, nor is it
relevant to whether or not Mr. Guo committed money laundering,
wire fraud or any kind of fraud. He has no involvement with
her daughter.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, it's just to draw out
periods of bias. If they're not going to cross her on bias,
then I'll move on.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1325
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
THE COURT: I don't think her daughter has anything to
do with bias.
MR. FERGENSON: It's just a benefit, an arguable
benefit.
THE COURT: I see what you're saying, whether or not
the government gave some sort of incentive.
MR. FERGENSON: Correct. And they watched her. They
took her to the zoo, your Honor. That's all.
MS. SHROFF: They've made it look like she needed some
kind of FBI protection and babysitting by the FBI. That's
number one. There was no relevance. And I read the 3500
material to suggest that the daughter's flight was not covered
by the government, so I'm not really sure what bias I would
have brought out. So I don't think bias is the reason they
elicited this on direct, and they kept going even after my
objection.
THE COURT: Do you plan to ask questions about her
flight and her accommodation and all of that?
MS. SHROFF: I certainly wasn't going to ask before
now because that's -- certainly not about the daughter. I was
not going to touch the daughter. But now they've opened the
door, I don't have to think about it. But most certainly I --
especially because I read the 3500 material. And if I read it
wrong, somebody correct me, but they didn't pay for the
daughter's flight, so why would I bring that out.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1326
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
MR. FERGENSON: You did read it wrong, but we'll move
on, your Honor. We'll just get started.
THE COURT: Okay.
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1327
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
(In open court)
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, I want to back up and talk briefly about your
personal background.
What country did you grow up in?
A. In China.
Q. How long did you live in China?
A. About 20 years.
Q. Where did you move after that?
A. Australia.
Q. Why did you move to Australia?
A. I started the university in Australia.
Q. What did you study at university?
A. Accounting.
Q. What degree, if any, did you receive?
A. Master of accounting.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, did she say master's in
accounting.
THE COURT: So I need for you to speak up, really
raise your voice. Go ahead. Master's in accounting is the
answer.
MS. SHROFF: Thank you, your Honor.
Q. And, Ms. Li, after you received your master's in
accounting, what did you do for work?
A. Work as accountant.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1328
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
Q. And aside from working for Miles Guo, have you --
MS. SHROFF: Objection. That is not what she
testified.
THE COURT: She did say she worked for Miles Guo. You
may continue.
Q. Aside from working for Miles Guo, have you worked as an
accountant since getting your degree?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you lived in Australia since moving there?
A. Yes.
Q. Ms. Li, when you lived in China, did you follow politics?
A. No.
Q. Were you politically active?
A. No.
Q. Did there come a time when you became interested in
politics?
A. Yes.
Q. Please explain how you first became interested in politics?
A. In 2017, my friend in China ask me to find out some true
information about a school protest, that school why kids die,
but the school try to cover up. So a parent want to know the
truth, so we go to protest in China, but they can't get the
true information. So they ask me to find something from
outside world, and when I go to YouTube.
MS. SHROFF: Objection. I move to strike. It's all
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1329
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
hearsay.
THE COURT: Overruled. I need you to speak up, really
speak into the microphone so we can hear you.
A. So then I go to YouTube, try to find some information about
this incident happened in China. And then I watch the video
about the earthquake from the VOA China. VOA have a
documentary about the China's 2008 earthquake.
During that time, advertisement coming up, so they
were going to interview Miles Guo, so there will be a explosive
whistleblower information, so I started watching the VOA.
Q. So before that advertisement came up, had you heard of
Miles Guo before?
A. No.
Q. Now, the advertisement that you watched, did you watch the
interview as advertising?
A. Yes.
Q. At a high level, what happened in that VOA interview?
A. About one hour the interview been cut off.
Q. What, if anything, did Miles Guo say about that?
A. He said that's because of CCP pressure of the VOA, so VOA
cut it off.
Q. What effect, if any, did this interview being cut off have
on your impression of Miles Guo?
A. I feel what he said is all true, so that's why CCP afraid
of what he said to try to silence him.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1330
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
Q. After watching that interview, what, if anything, did you
begin doing?
A. So I been start following his Twitter account and YouTube
account.
Q. And remind us, Ms. Li, what year was this interview?
A. 2017.
Q. You said you started following his Twitter and YouTube
account, how often was Guo posting online?
A. Everyday.
Q. And how often were you following his post?
A. Everyday.
Q. How often were you watching his videos?
A. Everyday.
Q. How long were these videos?
A. About 30 minutes to one hour.
Q. Would you watch part of them or all of them?
A. All of them.
Q. Ms. Li, what was your impression of Miles Guo's wealth?
A. He's a billionaire in China.
Q. Why did you think he was a billionaire in China?
A. He's on the rich list, the ranking at 74.
Q. What was the rich list?
A. It's who in China rich list.
Q. Ms. Li, what, if anything, would you see in Guo's
broadcast?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1331
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
MS. SHROFF: Objection to the leading.
Q. I said what, if anything, would you see in Guo's broadcast,
Ms. Li?
A. He broadcasted expose all the corruption information about
Chinese high level officials.
Q. And what would be the setting of his broadcast?
A. Usually in his apartment in Sherry-Netherland 18th floor.
Q. Ms. Li, did there come a time when you were in direct
contact with Guo?
A. Yes.
Q. Approximately when was that?
A. Around 2018.
Q. And what happened that led to you being in direct contact
with Guo?
A. So in 2018 in his birthday, I made a birthday cake and I
send it to the leader of the Mel Bin group, supporter group, so
I send to him. And then he send a photo of the cake to Miles
Guo, and Miles Guo -- then I been added in a group Whatsapp
group.
Q. You said you made a birthday cake for whose birthday?
A. For Miles Guo's birthday.
Q. Did you send it to Miles Guo or someone else?
A. To the Mel Bin group's leader at that time.
Q. And after you sent a birthday cake for Miles Guo to that
leader, what happened after that, Ms. Li?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1332
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
A. So he send a photo of the cake to Miles Guo. And after
that, I been added in Whatsapp group.
Q. And who was in this Whatsapp group?
A. All his supporters.
Q. About how many supporters were in it?
A. About 20s.
Q. And was Miles Guo in it?
A. Yes.
Q. Were the supporters in this group, were they farm leaders?
A. No, that time no farm yet.
Q. Remind us what year was this?
A. 2018.
Q. What sorts of things were discussed in this Whatsapp group?
A. All about his broadcast and what happened in China like
that.
Q. Were there any business investments at this time?
A. No.
Q. Around this time, Ms. Li, what, if any, one-on-one chats
with Guo did you have?
A. We have direct message. He sometime send me some
translation task, so I translate for him.
Q. What sorts of things were you translating?
A. Mainly is legal document.
Q. Ms. Li, what is the Rule of Law Foundation?
A. Rule of Law Foundation establish by Miles Guo and Steve
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1333
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
Bannon on 20th November 2018.
THE COURT: Keep your voice up.
Q. What about the Rule of Law Society?
A. It's the same, same day established by Miles Guo and Steve
Bannon, yeah.
Q. Were you involved with either of those entities?
A. I been appointed to be the director of the Rule of Law
Foundation.
Q. When did you become director of the Rule of Law Foundation?
A. Early 2019.
Q. Who asked you to be a director?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. What did he say to you?
A. He said he want me to be the director of the Rule of Law
Foundation.
Q. What was your reaction?
A. I feel that's my honor so I accept it.
Q. Ms. Li --
MS. SHROFF: Did she say that's my honor.
A. Honor, at that time I feel that's my honor I been picked up
by Miles Guo, so yes.
Q. Thank you, Ms. Li. We'll need you to keep speaking up,
please.
Ms. Li, who decided who was on the board of the Rule
of Law Foundation?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1334
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
A. Miles Guo.
Q. How do you know that?
A. Because he appointed me.
Q. What, if anything, did Miles Guo say about how the Rule of
Law Foundation would be funded?
A. He's the biggest donor.
Q. And what, if anything, did he say about how much he would
donate?
A. He said he going to donate hundred million, and if we
donate one dollar, he will match donate another two dollar so
2/3 of the money will be his money, yeah.
Q. Approximately when did he say those things?
A. In March 2019.
Q. Ms. Loftus, could we show the witness what's in evidence as
Government Exhibit VI-191. We can publish that.
Ms. Li, whose YouTube page is this?
A. This is Miles Guo's YouTube channel.
Q. What, if anything, did Miles Guo say about Rule of Law
donations in this broadcast?
A. He said he's going to donate hundred million. And if we
donate one dollar, he will match, donate another two dollar, so
2/3 of the money will be his money.
Q. And Ms. Loftus, we can take that down.
Ms. Li, at the time did you believe Miles Guo would
donate a $100 million to the Rule of Law?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1335
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
A. Yes.
Q. As a director, did you ever review Rule of Law's finances?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor. The period of the
time she was a director is not in evidence.
THE COURT: That she was a director is in evidence,
but you can state when it was that you were a director.
Q. What was the time period you were a director of the Rule of
Law Foundation?
A. From start to around October -- sorry, July 2023.
Q. Ms. Li, while you were a director of the Rule of Law
Foundation, did you ever review Rule of Law's finances?
A. No.
Q. Were you ever provided information on who was donating and
how much?
A. No.
Q. Did there come a time when you were asked to find out a
fundraising figure?
A. Yes.
Q. What were you asked to do?
A. One day Miles Guo ask me to arrange a first anniversary of
new federal state of China. He want to know during that period
how much fund we raised for Rule of Law Foundation and Society.
Q. And after Guo asked you how much was raised, what did you
do?
A. So I send a message to ask the Rule of Law Foundation
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1336
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
lawyer call Dan Podhaskie.
Q. And what happened after you ask Dan Podhaskie about the
fundraising?
A. He send me some figures.
Q. What did you do with those figures?
A. I send to Miles Guo.
Q. How much fundraising was there? What were the figures?
A. Total was about 700,000.
Q. And after you relaid the 700,000 information, what was
Guo's response?
A. He said not much money.
Q. Ms. Li, what, if any, chat groups were there related to
Rule of Law?
A. There's a group of -- Whatsapp group for Rule of Law
Foundation the society directors with Miles Guo.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, the interpreter's mic may
be near the witness and that may be the source of the feedback.
Thank you very much, your Honor.
Q. Ms. Li, the chat for Rule of Law, which rule of Law
directors were in the chat?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, there's no testimony about a
chat for Rule of Law Foundation.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. I'll re-ask, your Honor.
What, if any, chat groups were there related to Rule
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1337
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
of Law, Ms. Li?
A. So there's a Whatsapp chat group with Rule of Law
Foundation and Society directors and Miles Guo.
Q. Which directors were in that chat?
A. At that time have Sara Lihong, me and Guo Xiao Feng and
Miles Guo and all supporters, directors of workers for
supporters for Rule of Law Foundation, so it was a supporters
group, yeah.
Q. Who, if anyone, gave instructions to the Rule of Law chat
group while you were a director?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. And at a high level, what sorts of instructions did Miles
Guo give to the Rule of Law directors?
A. What issues we need to discuss.
Q. What, if anything, did Guo say in the chat group about
protest?
A. Yes. He said, that's around August, September, August
2020, say Rule of Law Foundation will support the protest start
--
THE COURT: So I need you to speak up.
Q. Ms. Li, we can come back to that.
Are you familiar with something called G News?
A. Yes.
Q. What was G News?
A. G News is a platform, we post articles about the news.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1338
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
Q. Approximately when was G News created?
A. Around 2019.
Q. Who created G News?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. Who contributed to G News content?
A. Supporters have the right, so we would choose the
supporters who had the good writing skill and give them the
rights to post the articles.
Q. Did you contribute to G News?
A. Yes.
Q. What did you do?
A. So I will translate some articles and post there.
Q. Who was ultimately in control of G News?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. Did Guo ever raise money for G News?
A. No.
Q. Ms. Li, what was Guo Media?
A. Guo Media is social media platform and can do broadcast and
video and post.
Q. Approximately when was Guo Media in operation?
A. About 2019.
Q. Did Guo ever raise money for Guo Media?
A. No.
Q. What was the first business, Ms. Li, that Guo raised money
for?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1339
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
A. GTV.
Q. We'll talk about GTV in a moment. Okay?
A. Okay.
Q. Ms. Li, by the time Guo began offering business
investments, how long had you been following Guo?
A. Three years.
Q. After those three years, what level of trust, if any, did
you have in Miles Guo?
A. Hundred percent, solid percent trust.
Q. Please explain why you trusted him?
A. Because during the three years in his broadcast, what he
said I feel are true.
Q. And what had happened after he said those things in his
broadcast?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, what things?
THE COURT: If you can be more specific.
Q. What sorts of things did he talk about in those three years
in broadcast, Ms. Li?
A. Exposing the CCP's corruption and how CCP infiltrated the
western countries.
Q. And did you believe those things were true, Ms. Li?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you still believe the CCP is corrupt?
A. Yes.
Q. When you first started following Guo in those three years,
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1340
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65BGUO3 Ya Li- Direct
what kind of movement did you believe you were joining, Ms. Li?
MS. SHROFF: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. Democracy movement.
Q. And at the start for three years before GTV, how were
business investments involved in that democracy movement?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. G News.
Q. Were there investments before GTV?
A. No.
Q. Ms. Li, what did you call Guo?
A. Tiga Brother Seven.
Q. Why did you call him Brother Seven?
A. He ask us to call him Brother Seven because he's a seventh
child in his family.
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1341
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
THE COURT: Okay. So I want to remind you to keep
your voice up there. Sometimes when you speak, we can hear you
perfectly, but then your voice drops. So concentrate on making
yourself heard.
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. You said earlier he called you Mulan's sister. What was
your understanding of why he called you Mulan's sister?
A. Because he said all his followers, we are brothers and
sisters, we like a big family.
Q. At the time when you were a follower, did Guo feel like
family?
A. Yes.
Q. When you were a follower and you had to decide between
doing something Miles Guo needed and something your family
needed, what did you do?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Ms. Li, why did Guo feel like family?
MS. SHROFF: I believe this has been asked and
answered several times.
MR. FERGENSON: It hasn't, your Honor.
THE COURT: It has not. You may answer.
Q. Why did Guo feel like family, Ms. Li?
A. Because we call each other brother and sisters, and we care
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1342
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
of each other and we work together.
Q. Turning to the investments. When you were a supporter, how
much, if at all, did you focus on what investment contracts
said?
A. No, I just sign it where I need to sign. I don't read the
whole contract.
Q. Why did you just sign it?
A. Because we trust him.
Q. You mentioned GTV.
A. Yeah.
Q. Was GTV the only investment Guo promoted?
A. No.
Q. Could you please list the investments that Guo promoted?
A. So there's GTV; after GTV is farm loan program; after that
is G Club card program, and new GTV and a new platform, and A15
and A10. And also there's cryptocurrency investment, so G
Coin, G Dollar, H Coin, H Dollar, and there is a digital bank.
Q. All right. Ms. Li, you listed several investments. What
were the main differences, if any, between these investments?
A. So one is for shares, another one is for cryptocurrency,
another one for digital bank.
Q. And Ms. Li, try and keep your voice up, please.
A. Okay.
Q. Thank you.
Taking the one for shares first, which investments
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1343
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
were for shares?
A. GTV private placement and farm loan program, G Club card
program, new GTV, new platform, A15, A10.
Q. Which ones were for cryptocurrencies?
A. G Coin, G Dollar, H Coin, H Dollar.
Q. And you said digital bank. What was the -- what did Guo
say the purpose of the digital bank project was?
A. The digital bank is the investment will be purchase digital
bank called Mercantile Bank. And this investment, also you
will get another bank in Europe and a betting license. But
then later the betting license is canceled.
Q. Now, Ms. Li, what promises, if any, did Guo make about all
of the investments?
A. He guaranteed all investment will be no loss. If there's a
loss, he will repay us all the loss. And also he promised all
supporters' investment money he will not use.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could show the
witness what's marked as Government Exhibit VI-184. And if we
could put it on mute, Ms. Loftus; and if we could play a little
bit of it on mute for the witness, please.
Ms. Loftus, maybe we can just scroll quickly through
the end.
Q. All right. Ms. Loftus, what's this a video of?
MS. SHROFF: Ms. Loftus?
Q. I'm sorry. Ms. Li, what is this a video of?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1344
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
A. This is Miles Guo's broadcast.
Q. Have you reviewed this prior to testifying?
A. Yes.
Q. Does it relate to investments?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government
Exhibit VI-184.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may I have one voir dire
question for the witness?
THE COURT: Yes.
VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. Good afternoon, Ms. Li.
A. Good afternoon.
Q. Did you watch this particular video in the presence of the
prosecutor in his office?
A. Yes.
Q. And other than watching it in his office, did you watch it
before then?
A. When he did this broadcast.
Q. I can't hear you.
A. When he did this broadcast.
MS. SHROFF: I have no objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-184 received in evidence)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1345
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
MR. FERGENSON: All right. Ms. Loftus, if we could --
actually, I'm sorry, before -- Ms. Loftus, maybe we can tee it
up. But at this time, your Honor, the government will offer a
stipulation between the parties. It's marked as Government
Exhibit Stip-10.
Your Honor, I'm trying to understand if there's an
objection.
MS. SHROFF: It's a stipulation, your Honor. I'm
confused, but no. It's a stipulation between the parties.
THE COURT: So it is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit Stip-10 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.
So I'll just read the stipulation. It says it's a
stipulation regarding translations of GX VI exhibits.
It says: It's hereby stipulated and agreed that --
between the parties that in the below chart, the exhibits
listed under column A contain audio or text in a foreign
language. And in the below chart the exhibits listed under
column B are true and accurate translations of the audio or
texts contained in the exhibits listed under column A.
And at this time, the government will offer Government
Exhibit 184-T.
Your Honor, the government offers Government Exhibit
184-T.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1346
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
(Government's Exhibit 184-T received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.
So, Ms. Loftus, if we could play the video, please,
with audio. We'll just go ahead and play the whole thing.
(Video played)
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could please publish
Government Exhibit VI-184-T, please. And if we could blow that
up. Thank you.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. So I'll just ahead and read this, Ms. Li:
As for what these fellow fighters said, I will
reiterate it again. You can either your borrow projects,
invest, or buy H Coin, or buy any card. If you lose a penny
and I will take responsibility. I reiterate that again. For
any matter you are involved to the G Series, there are also
many other investors involved who are investing with us.
Regardless of the reasons, if you lose a penny, Brother 7 will
take responsibility. Again, I reiterate, I will take
responsibility.
Ms. Li --
THE COURT: Mr. Fergenson, if you would lower your mic
a bit because I believe that the way it's pointed towards the
ceiling is causing the feedback.
MR. FERGENSON: I see, your Honor. Thank you.
Q. Ms. Li, the reference to your borrow project, what's your
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1347
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
understanding of what the borrow projects are?
A. Farm loan program.
Q. And the reference to "buy any card," what's your
understanding of what that's referring to?
A. G Club card program.
Q. Ms. Li, was this video the only time Guo made this type of
promise?
A. No, many times during this three years.
Q. How often would he say these things in the three years?
A. The promises about investment.
Q. And how often would he make these promises?
A. Always.
Q. Ms. Li, you said earlier Guo was on the rich list in China,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. At the time you were involved in these investment projects,
did you believe that Guo could repay any investor losses?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you believe that Guo could pay for any expenses?
A. Yes.
Q. And you said you trusted him, right?
A. Yes.
Q. What did Guo say about why he was doing these investment
projects?
A. He said he want his supporters be rich like him because CCP
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1348
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
is scared of his supporters to be rich.
Q. Did you believe him?
A. Yes.
Q. Who could participate in these investment projects?
A. Only for his supporters.
Q. Ms. Li, what, if anything, did Guo say about using investor
money for himself?
A. No, he said it's impossible. He never use investors' money
for himself.
Q. What effect, if any, of his saying that -- what effect did
that have on your view of the investments at the time?
A. So all our invest money, it's safe and not being used.
Q. What effect did that have on your level of trust?
A. 100 percent.
Q. Ms. Li, did there come a time when Guo sent you objects in
the mail?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, may I approach?
THE COURT: You may.
Q. Ms. Li, I've just handed you what's marked as Government
Exhibit 37. What is Government Exhibit 37?
A. It's Miles Guo's sunglasses.
Q. And how do you know that?
A. Because he wears these for his broadcast.
Q. And where did these sunglasses -- how did they get to the
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1349
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
courtroom today?
A. When he broadcast, wear these sunglasses. I said, It's
looks cool. It's very nice.
And he said, If you like it, I can give to you.
Then he sended it to me. And today I bring it to
here.
Q. Are those the sunglasses he sent to you?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government
Exhibit 37.
THE COURT: No objection?
MS. SHROFF: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit 37 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, permission to publish
Government Exhibit 37 to the jury.
THE COURT: You may.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor --
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.
THE COURT: Is there an application?
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, the evidence bag is not
opened, and I would --
MR. FERGENSON: I'm going to open it.
MS. SHROFF: Actually, I haven't seen the inside of
it. So before he does that --
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1350
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, we mentioned GTV earlier. What was GTV?
A. GTV is a platform Miles Guo established. It's to produce
the truth and bring the true news from China to western country
and from western country to China.
Q. And does it exist today?
A. No.
Q. Now, was there, in fact, a GTV website?
A. Yes.
Q. And what was on it?
A. Once you registered and login, so then you can see the
broadcast videos and post.
Q. Were there viewer numbers on the videos?
A. Yes.
Q. Approximately how many views in total were there on some of
Guo's videos on GTV?
A. Can be millions.
Q. As a general matter, how did those numbers compare with the
views of Guo's YouTube videos you had watched?
A. That's sometimes 100 times more.
Q. At the time when you were a supporter, did you think the
GTV viewer numbers were accurate?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. Yes.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1351
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
Q. Why?
A. Because Miles Guo said his followers numbers about -- about
two billion all over the world.
Q. Two billion?
A. Yeah.
Q. Sitting here today, Ms. Li, what's your opinion of whether
the GTV viewer numbers were accurate?
MS. SHROFF: Objection. The relevance.
THE COURT: You may answer.
The objection is overruled.
Q. Sitting here today, what's your opinion of whether the GTV
viewer numbers were accurate?
A. No.
Q. Why is that?
A. Because too high. And only his channel is this high.
Other -- other channels is low.
Q. Ms. Li, when did you first hear of GTV?
A. First hear GTV around early 2020.
Q. And how did you hear about it?
A. In Miles Guo's broadcast.
Q. In his broadcast, what did Guo say GTV was?
A. GTV is a media platform, will be like YouTube, Twitter,
yeah, like these kind of social media platform.
Q. And where was -- what, if anything, did Guo say about where
GTV was trying to get its message to?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1352
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
A. To mainland China.
Q. And what was the significance of getting into mainland
China?
A. Because Chinese government have the great firewall; they
block the messages, so they have very strict censorship there.
They can't get a lot of messages in the mainland China.
Q. What, if anything, did Guo say about how he would get
through China's strict censorship?
A. He said there's some Israel technology can help GTV to get
into the firewall.
Q. Did he explain what that Israeli technology was?
A. No.
Q. At the time did you believe him?
A. I believe it.
Q. Ms. Li, what did Guo say about the value of GTV as an
investment?
A. At that time is 20 billion.
Q. And what did he say about the value of GTV a year later?
A. 600 billion -- sorry, 60 billion.
Q. And what about the returns on investment, what did Guo say
about the return on investment?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor. There is no
delineation as to which investment the government is referring
to.
MR. FERGENSON: I'm talking about GTV, your Honor.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1353
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
THE COURT: With respect to GTV.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. With respect to GTV, what did he say about the returns on a
GTV investment?
A. Can be 100 times.
Q. What, if anything, did Guo say about the risks of investing
in GTV?
A. There's no risk because all he guaranteed.
Q. So you said earlier -- withdrawn.
What, if any, requirements were there for
participating as an investor in GTV?
A. So requirement is you need to donate to Rule of Law
Foundation.
Q. And what role -- excuse me. What role, if any, did you
play in that process?
A. I'm the one of the contact point. So if his
followers/supporters want to join this investment, they can
contact me or Sara or Lude.
Q. Ms. Li, if you could please try and speak loudly into the
microphone.
A. Okay.
Q. All right. Now, you said you were one of the contacts?
A. Yeah.
Q. What did people contact you about? What would they give
you?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1354
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
A. So they would say they want to invest to GTV and send me
the receipt of their donation. So I would check this, yeah.
Q. And after you checked that they were donors, what did you
do after that?
A. So I will send Miles Guo's WhatsApp number to them so they
can contact Miles Guo.
Q. Ms. Li, as part of this process, what questions, if any,
did you ask the potential investors about their investing
experience?
A. I don't --
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
What's an investing experience?
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. I don't ask.
Q. What questions, if any, did you ask these investors about
their ability to lose their investment?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. I don't ask. So my role is just to checking if they are
donor or not, if they are true follower or not.
Q. Then you said you gave them Miles Guo's number. Was that
his real number?
A. Yeah, his real WhatsApp number.
Q. Ms. Li, what, if anything, did Guo say about institutional
or fund investors?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1355
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
A. Yeah, there's institutional fund investment -- investors in
GTV as well.
Q. And do you have any independent knowledge based on your
involvement of whether that's true?
A. I don't know. But that time we believe it.
Q. With GTV, was this opportunity available at all times or
only a limited time?
A. Only a limited time.
Q. What did Guo say about that?
A. He said that it will finish end of May.
Q. Ms. Li, when Guo said all these things, at the time, did
you believe him?
MS. SHROFF: Objection. Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. Yes, I totally believe, yeah.
Q. What were the reasons you believed him?
A. Because I already follow Miles Guo for three years, so I
trust him, everything.
Q. Did you invest in GTV yourself?
A. Yes.
Q. Had you ever made a private placement investment before?
A. No.
Q. In deciding to invest, was what Guo said about risk
important to you?
A. Yes.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1356
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
Q. Was what Guo said about personally guaranteeing any losses
important to your decision to invest?
A. Yes.
Q. If you had known that Guo's statements about risks were
false, would you have invested?
A. No.
Q. If you had known that Guo wouldn't personally guarantee any
losses, would you have invested?
A. No.
Q. Ms. Li, when you invested in GTV, did you invest in your
personal name or in the name of an entity?
A. Both.
Q. Let's talk about them in turn.
So your personal name investment, how much was that
investment?
A. About 120,000.
Q. Whose money was that?
A. That's some other followers' money.
Q. And why did you invest in your name on behalf of other
people?
A. Because that time the minimum investment requirement amount
is 100,000. So if we can't individually invest that much
money, so several supporters can invest together.
Q. And where did you send $120,000 in your name?
A. Saraca.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1357
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
Q. What was your understanding of what Saraca was?
A. I don't know. I just follow the instruction.
Q. And where did you get those instructions?
A. From Miles Guo's message.
Q. What kind of message?
A. WhatsApp message about the how to invest the GTV or the
document, yeah.
Q. Turning to the investment in the name of an entity, Ms. Li,
what entity did you use to invest?
A. My superfund.
Q. What is a superfund?
A. A superfund is a pension -- pension fund, is a retirement
money.
Q. Whose retirement money was that?
A. Me.
Q. Why did you use a retirement account to invest in GTV?
A. Because that time I thought this investment is low risk and
a long time and a good return, so it's a good support for
retirement.
Q. How much did you invest with your retirement account?
A. 30,000.
Q. Where did you send that money?
A. Saraca.
Q. Did you get the money from these investments back?
A. Yes, I get my personal name's money back from SEC.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1358
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
Q. And did you get 100 percent back from the SEC or less than
100 percent?
A. About 92 percent.
Q. After you got that money back, what did you do with it?
A. I send them back to the other supporters.
Q. What about the $30,000 from your retirement account, did
you get that money back?
A. I haven't received refund yet.
Q. Ms. Li, what was the reinvestment rule?
A. Reinvestment rule is once you received the refund from SEC,
within 45 days you should invest this money back to the
investment project and then you can get five percent of H Coin.
THE COURT: Where does the reinvestment rule come
from?
THE WITNESS: Coming from Miles Guo.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may we have a sidebar,
please?
THE COURT: Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Thank you.
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1359
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
(At sidebar)
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I didn't object, but there is
no such thing as the reinvestors' rule.
MR. FERGENSON: It's reinvestment.
MS. SHROFF: I hadn't finished, but you feel free.
MR. FERGENSON: I'm sorry. I apologize.
MS. SHROFF: So it is a term of art that the
prosecution and the witnesses call it the reinvestment rule.
Mr. Guo is not attributed with the phrase of the
reinvestment rule. And that translation by the government
would be wrong. But I'm just pointing this out.
THE COURT: So let's remain with that.
Where is it that you're getting this term from?
MR. FERGENSON: The witness and other victims.
THE COURT: So you're saying that they introduce the
term to you?
MR. FERGENSON: Correct.
THE COURT: Okay.
MS. SHROFF: The question --
MR. FERGENSON: They can cross on it.
MS. SHROFF: The question the government posed is,
What was the reinvestment rule, right as though it is a rule.
It's assumed there is a rule.
There isn't any testimony that there was anything that
led them to conclude to it being called the reinvestment rule.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1360
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
So it's tantamount to say, you know, there is a PPM because
there is such a thing as a private placement memorandum, that's
a given. The reinvestment rule is a term of art that they've
created. And there is no indication that the witness has
created it first, and I can't tell from the 3500 material. So
I did have an objection to that.
THE COURT: Okay. So before you continue, so
Mr. Fergenson has just said that this witness and others first
brought this term to the government.
MR. FERGENSON: That's correct.
MS. SHROFF: But there is no evidence of that in the
record. He's adopted that.
THE COURT: Well, he has a witness — witnesses who are
claiming that this term and concept existed. So they may
testify about it, whether or not it's in 3500 materials.
MS. SHROFF: Okay. It's my objection, I think.
THE COURT: It's overruled.
MS. SHROFF: Okay. That's fine.
I did have an ongoing objection, your Honor, and I've
stopped making them. But I do believe that the government has
asked at least 50 times what the basis of the trust was. And
they've gone over and over again at every juncture. So to the
extent they want to get their witness back and we all have to
come in at 9 o'clock, I think that redundancy I just wanted to
note for the record.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1361
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
THE COURT: Okay. I want to hear Mr. Fergenson on
that issue, please.
MR. FERGENSON: I was asking about different topics
and different schemes.
MS. SHROFF: He asked that in the beginning about all
of the schemes, okay? He laid it all out and then he laid it
out when he showed the video about how it was that he called
himself Brother 7, and that was to establish family. Then he
asked for all of the list of all of the investments, and he did
it again.
Look, there's a record, so the record will just speak
for itself.
THE COURT: Yes. And it is appropriate when you have
a litany of investments that he inquire as to why the
investment was made and whether or not they were trusting the
representations by Miles Guo. There's no rule that says once
you've asked about it generally, that you cannot ask about the
individual investments.
MS. SHROFF: But he's asked about the individual
investments at least twice now.
THE COURT: Perhaps it's because your client made
these representations over and over and over again.
MS. SHROFF: It could be.
But if the government wants to distinguish that he
made these representations over a period of years, that's fine.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1362
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
But that's not how he's doing it. He's doing it project by
project and he's doing it repeatedly. But that is my
continuing objection.
I also want to note that at no point when he was --
when this witness was shown a video, she did not in any way —
and she was questioned about this in terms of the Voice of
America broadcast. Not once did she mention Voice of America.
Voice of America was interjected into --
MR. FERGENSON: She said VOA, and I said VOA. That's
it.
MS. SHROFF: Okay.
MR. FERGENSON: I didn't say Voice of America.
THE COURT: So I heard VOA. So are you challenging
that "VOA" stands for Voice of America?
MS. SHROFF: No. I'm challenging that it was the
witness who said it first as opposed to the government who said
it in their question.
But, again, the record is out there. And I have a
continuing objection to the government lawyer including facts
that the witness has not testified to in the prompting of the
next question. So those are my objections, your Honor.
THE COURT: Well, to the extent that he is including
facts that are not yet in the record, the objection is proper.
MS. SHROFF: Okay.
And finally, the rich list. He's asked about the rich
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1363
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
list at least three times. Three times he's asked about this
rich list. Over and over again he's asking about what the rich
list led her to conclude. I think it's pretty much established
that she thought because of the rich list, he's rich.
But again, these are my asked-and-answered objections;
and I make them because, you know, it's their witness that they
want to get back to Australia.
THE COURT: So it's strange, Ms. Shroff, that you are
complaining about the prosecution painting your client as
wealthy. He appears in a number of videos in extravagant
settings.
MS. SHROFF: I'm not complaining they are painting him
as wealthy. It's a given. I'm happy to have them do it.
I'm just complaining that they are doing it over and
over again in a cumulative manner, thereby suggesting to the
jury that there's something wrong with wealth. We may not like
wealth. It's not my thing in life; you know, I'm an indigent
defense lawyer for the most part. But frankly, it's over the
top here.
And the juxtaposition by the government, each time,
even with the witnesses yesterday, the juxtaposition of the
opulence to show -- to place it, it's my -- look, the Court --
obviously you've overruled my objection. I most respectfully
understand that. I just wanted to have it on the record,
that's all.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1364
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
THE COURT: It sounds to me like you're trying to
argue that your client's excess is being portrayed excessively.
MS. SHROFF: Yes, I am. That's exactly right. Thank
you. That is exactly right. In an unfair, cumulative manner,
and in a manner that is unduly prejudicial at this point. Even
rich people deserve a good defense, and that is why I am
objecting. I think it's cumulative. It's beyond the point
cumulative.
THE COURT: I agree that he deserves a defense. But
it is Mr. Guo who puts himself next to the Lamborghini and the
jet and in a living room with gilded objects.
MS. SHROFF: I agree. It's not my thing. I
understand. But it's also unduly prejudicial when it's put
before the same witness over and over. He's asked about the
rich list three times. Is that enough or do we need to hear
about the rich list five more times?
THE COURT: Okay. Enough on the rich list.
MR. FERGENSON: I'm done with the rich list, your
Honor. I would like to keep the examination going, that's all.
THE COURT: Okay.
(Continued on next page)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1365
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
(In open court)
THE COURT: You may continue.
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, who came up with the reinvestment rule?
A. Miles Guo.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, could you please show the
witness what's marked as Government Exhibit VK-5.
Q. Ms. Li, what's this document?
A. Contract of the GTV private placement.
Q. Did you receive this document as part of your investment?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VK-5.
MS. SHROFF: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VK-5 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Can you publish, please.
Q. While it's coming up, Ms. Li, who did you receive the
document from?
A. From Miles Guo.
Q. Ms. Li, do you see at the very top it says: "GTV,
everything is just the beginning"?
A. Yes.
Q. And towards the middle, what's the date?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1366
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
A. Date, 20th of April, 2020.
MR. FERGENSON: All right. Ms. Loftus, if we can go
down to page 10. And could we zoom under -- blow up "4, Use of
Proceeds." Thank you.
Q. Ms. Li, I'll just read the text under "Use of Proceeds."
It says: GTV Media plans to use the proceeds from a
private placement to expand and strengthen the business. The
contemplated use of proceeds is as follows: Acquisition of
companies to strengthen and grow GTV, approximate 70 percent;
upgrade of GTV technology and security, approximate 10 percent;
marketing, approximate eight percent; working capital,
approximate seven percent; and other, approximate five percent.
Ms. Li, in the chart is there anything about hedge
fund investments?
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, is the government asking
about her present reading of this chart or is the government
trying to elicit evidence that she ever reviewed this chart
before today?
MR. FERGENSON: I'm asking her about a document in
evidence, whether it lists anything about hedge funds.
THE COURT: All righty. So you'll answer whether or
not the document in front of you lists anything about a hedge
fund.
THE WITNESS: No.
Q. Is there anything about investing in Hayman Capital?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1367
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
A. No.
Q. Now, Ms. Li, when you invested in GTV, did you read the
documents closely?
A. No, I don't read. I just sign where I need to sign.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, we can take this down.
Q. Why didn't you read the documents closely?
A. Because I trust Miles Guo 100 percent.
Q. And this was GTV. What about the other contracts and
documents?
A. Same. I just sign where I need to sign.
Q. What did you rely on in making your investment decisions?
A. What he said in Miles Guo's broadcast.
Q. In his broadcasts, did Guo ever say that your GTV
investment money would be used to invest in a hedge fund?
A. No.
Q. If you had known that your money would be sent to a hedge
fund, would you have invested?
A. No.
Q. Now, did Guo ever discuss in broadcasts investing himself
in a hedge fund?
A. Yes.
Q. What did he say?
A. He said Saraca invested.
Q. Invested in what?
A. But not GTV.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1368
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
Q. I'm sorry, Ms. Li?
A. Saraca invested, but not GTV.
Q. And what did he say Saraca invested in?
A. 100 million.
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
Nonresponsive, and I move to strike.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may -- the answer stands.
Q. And where did he say he sent that 100 million?
A. In the broadcast.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could show the
witness what's marked as Government Exhibit VI-158. And if we
could put it on mute, you can play some of it. You can skip
forward, Ms. Loftus. You can skip all the way to the end.
Q. All right. Now, Ms. Li, what is this a video of?
A. This is Miles Guo's broadcast.
Q. Did you watch this broadcast at the time?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government
Exhibit VI-158.
MS. SHROFF: May I ask, your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes, you may.
VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. Ms. Li, what year was this broadcast?
A. 2020.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1369
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
Q. You believe this broadcast was made in 2020?
MR. FERGENSON: Excuse me, your Honor. It's not cross
yet.
MS. SHROFF: I can't hear her.
THE COURT: Her answer was 2020.
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. Is it your testimony you saw this in 2020 or in preparation
with the government or both?
A. Yes.
THE COURT: Are you saying that you saw it in 2020?
THE WITNESS: When this broadcast, I saw it.
MS. SHROFF: I have no objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-158 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could -- actually,
just for the moment, your Honor, pursuant to the stipulation
regarding translations of GX VI exhibits, it's Stip-10, the
government will also offer the translation, it's Government
Exhibit VI-158-T.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-158-T received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.
All right. Ms. Loftus, let's play this with sound and
then we'll go to the translation.
(Video played)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1370
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, let's publish the
translation Government Exhibit VI-158-T, please. At the top,
please, Ms. Loftus.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. So, Ms. Li, focusing you on the third row down, date,
what's the date of that video?
A. 11th November, 2020.
MR. FERGENSON: Let's scroll down to the text, please,
Ms. Loftus. And if we could blow it up, please.
Q. And I'll go ahead and read the text, Ms. Li.
At the beginning, my comrades wanted to follow Kyle
Bass, Kyle Bass to do the 200 times leverage. Many comrades
said that, this, Brother 7, sent me a lot of messages, Brother
7, I wanted to invest money. I wanted to invest money in
shorting the Hong Kong dollar at 200 times the leverage. They
all wrote authorization letters to me, but I refused them all.
Everyone remembers this matter, right?
The U.S. media announced that Biden was elected. The
Hong Kong dollar. Do you know how much you lost by shorting
the Hong Kong dollar, brothers and sisters? All Kyle Bass
funds lost 50 percent, lost 50 percent. You did not lose,
fellow comrades, Saraca, you did not invest, Saraca invested.
Saraca invested 100 million, 100 million U.S. dollars, and now
it has lost 50 million. It has lost 50 million.
The day before yesterday, received a notification from
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1371
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
the fund telling everyone that half of your account balance has
been lost in the market, which is 50 million. Brothers and
sisters, if you said that Wengui had a bad conscience at the
time, I would ask my comrades to invest, then today half of
your money would have been lost.
I would like to ask everyone, is there any reason why
GTV investment will be reduced by half? Never. Please, you
can take everything. It will never be. This is Wengui's
feelings for his comrades. You can never lose half of your
investment in GTV because every penny you invest must be
audited by American legal accountants.
I can't use the money you invested to buy a Japanese
meal today, so I would be arrested directly. The United States
will really arrest you. Then you want to, the money invested
by the comrades will all be in the comrades' companies and GTV
will never be able to. But if you heard today that you will
lose 50 percent of your money because of Biden's false
election, how painful would it be for you? Can Wengui sit here
and have a Japanese meal with you? Impossible. Brothers and
sisters, this is Wengui measured by facts.
Ms. Li, towards the top and in the bottom of the first
paragraph, where it says: They all wrote authorization letters
to me, but I refused them all. Everyone remembers this matter,
right?
Do you remember that?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1372
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
A. I don't remember.
Q. Did you write him an authorization letter?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. To your knowledge, did anyone else?
A. I don't know anyone else.
Q. And Ms. Li, a little lower down, where he said: You did
not use fellow fighters, Saraca, you did not invest, Saraca
invested, Saraca invested 100 million U.S. dollars, and now it
has lost 50 million, lost 50 million.
What did you understand that to mean?
A. This means our GTV investment didn't invest to that the
fund, but Saraca invested. The Saraca is his money, not using
investors' money.
Q. And a little lower down when he said: I can't use the
money you invested to buy a Japanese meal today, so I will be
arrested directly. What did you understand that to mean?
A. So he knows he can't use invested money even to buy a
Japanese meal, otherwise he will be arrested.
Q. What's your understanding of why he referenced a Japanese
meal?
A. When he doing this broadcast, he's eating the Japanese meal
at that time.
Q. Ms. Li, did you think your money or any GTV investment
money was being used to invest in Kyle Bass's hedge fund?
A. No.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1373
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
Q. Why not?
A. Because he said -- he said all our money isn't invest
there, only Saraca's money. And if he use the our money, he
will be arrested.
Q. Ms. Li, what were the farms?
A. Farm is Miles Guo established around April/May 2020.
Q. And --
A. It's a -- it's supporters group over the world, so every --
every country we have a loan farm for his supporters.
Q. Were the farms operating since 2020, you said, through your
time working for Miles Guo?
A. Yes.
Q. Who, if anyone, told the farms what to do?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. How do you know that?
A. Because he told me.
Q. What was the Himalaya Farm Alliance?
A. Is all the farm together, we call it Himalaya Alliance.
Q. Who is Brother Long Island?
A. He's Himalaya Alliance secretary.
Q. And Ms. Li --
MS. SHROFF: I'm sorry, I cannot hear her.
THE COURT: Please speak up.
Q. If you point it towards you, it might work better.
A. He's Himalaya Alliance secretary.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1374
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
Q. What other names did Brother Long Island go by?
A. Chang Dao Ge.
Q. Do you know his real name?
A. Yes.
Q. What is it?
A. Xia Qi Dong.
Q. Could you spell that?
A. X-I-A-Q-I-D-O-N-G.
Q. What was the Iron Blood Group?
A. Iron Blood Group is created by Miles Guo about
December 2020. This group requires a member need to be
selfless, have strong mind, as iron on the stew, and keep
judgment, justice, result, result in personal interest,
personal benefits.
Q. Who are the members of the Iron Blood Group?
A. Initially is Brother Chang Dao, Lao Ban Zhang.
Q. If you could spell that.
A. L-A-O-B-A-N-Z-H-A-N-G.
And then is UK David, and the Japan Grassroot Brother
Caogen Xiaoge. And around April I been added in.
Q. April of what year?
A. April 2021.
Q. Was Miles Guo a member?
A. Yes.
Q. Who came up with the name Iron Blood Group?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1375
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
A. Miles Guo.
Q. Why was "blood" in the name?
A. Iron means we need to have a strong mind like iron in the
stew. Blood is we like brother and sisters, and our life and
death together.
Q. How would Guo communicate instructions to the farms?
A. We have a group. So he will send some messages, voice
messages into the group. And then sometimes we have meeting,
online meeting.
Q. How often would you have meetings with Guo?
MS. SHROFF: I'm sorry. General meetings or is she
testifying to the Iron Blood Group meetings?
THE COURT: If you'll break it down, please.
MR. FERGENSON: Yes, your Honor.
Q. Let's start with this first: How often would there be Iron
Blood Group meetings?
A. Can be anytime when Miles Guo required.
Q. About how long would the meetings be?
A. Can be 30 minutes to few hours.
Q. What sorts of things would be discussed?
A. About management of the Himalaya Alliance and the -- some
investment issues and some other issues coming from other farm,
yeah.
Q. What were some of the issues with investments?
A. Like we -- how we start the new project, what's the rule,
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1376
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
how to record supporters' investment, and checking
investment -- supporters' investment.
Q. Who gave directions on what to do with investment issues?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. How do you know that?
A. Because he gave me directions.
Q. Ms. Li, what was the NFSC?
A. NFSC is New Federal State of China, established 4th of
June, 2020 by Miles Guo and Steve Bannon.
Q. And what was the connection, if any, between the farms and
the NFSC?
A. All the farms is under New Federal State of China. This is
our group formal name, our organization's formal name.
Q. Was G Clubs another term for the farms or NFSC?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. G Club is one of the G Series business.
Q. Ms. Li, what was the farm loan program?
A. Farm loan program start around July 2020. That time the
GTV private placement already finished. Miles Guo said there
still very high demand for GTV shares, and the solution is we
start a farm loan program. So through this farm loan program,
so the other supporters who missing out the private placement
can still get GTV shares.
Q. What did Guo say about how this farm loan program would
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1377
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
work?
A. So supporters send money to each farm and they sign a loan
agreement. And then farm will send the money to Miles Guo's
company and sign agreement, and eventually the supporters will
get GTV shares.
Q. When you say "farms would send money to Miles Guo's
company," how did you refer to that company?
A. We called him headquarter companies.
Q. What's a headquarter company?
A. That's Miles Guo's companies.
Q. Who came up with that term?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. Now, Ms. Li, what was the name of your farm?
A. G Translators.
Q. Did G Translators have a company?
A. Yes.
Q. And what was the name of your farm's company in summer
2020?
A. G Translators Pty. Ltd.
THE COURT: So I need you to speak into the
microphone. Speak more loudly.
Q. Ms. Li, if you can point it toward your mouth, I think that
can help the feedback.
A. Okay.
Q. Okay. G Translators Pty., Ltd. Did G Translators
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1378
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
participate in a farm loan program?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you sign loan agreements with members and collect
money?
A. Yes.
Q. Where did you get the loan agreement from?
A. From Miles Guo.
Q. Did he send it directly or through someone else?
A. Through Brother Island Chang Dao.
Q. Did you sign the loan agreements with your members?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you sign for yourself or on behalf of your farm?
Or withdrawn.
Did you sign for the farm?
A. Yes.
Q. Ms. Li, to your understanding, was G Translators actually
borrowing money from these members?
A. No.
Q. Why were you collecting money from members?
A. We collecting monies and then we send it to Miles Guo's
company.
Q. And what was the purpose of doing that, to your
understanding?
A. To get GTV shares.
Q. Approximately how much money did G Translators collect from
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1379
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
its members in the first farm loan program?
A. About three million.
Q. From approximately how many members?
A. About 14 members.
Q. And did you send your own money in this farm loan program?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. Because I already participate the GTV private placement; I
already have the GTV shares.
Q. After G Translators collected the $3 million from members,
what did you do next?
A. Ask Miles Guo where should I send this money, and then he
send me a bank account.
Q. Did you ask Miles Guo where to send the money directly or
through an intermediary?
A. Directly.
Q. How did he respond?
A. He send me a bank account detail.
Q. What was the name of the bank account?
A. Medical Supply.
Q. And what country was that bank account in?
A. In U.S.
Q. Did you, in fact, send money to the Medical Supply bank
account in the U.S.?
A. Yes.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1380
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
Q. How much did you send?
A. About two million.
Q. Why did you only send two million of the three million?
A. Because Miles Guo ask me to keep one million to pay some
expenses.
Q. We'll come back to the one million.
A. Yeah.
Q. When you sent the two million to Medical Supply, was there
a loan agreement between G Translators and Medical Supply?
A. No.
Q. Was there any other contract between G Translators and
Medical Supply?
A. No.
Q. Why were you comfortable sending that $2 million to Medical
Supply at that time?
A. Because I trust Miles Guo 100 percent.
Q. Did you know anything about what the Medical Supply was?
A. No, I thought one of his company.
Q. Approximately when did you send the $2 million to the
Medical Supply account?
A. October 2020.
Q. Now, you said there was no contract at that time; correct?
A. No.
MS. SHROFF: Objection. Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1381
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
MR. FERGENSON: I'll move on.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
Q. Were you ever provided a loan agreement or contract with
Medical Supply?
A. Yes -- no. Sorry.
Q. That's okay.
Let me ask, were you ever provided a loan agreement or
contract with Medical Supply?
A. No, never.
Q. Did there come a time when you were provided an agreement
with a different company?
A. Yes.
Q. Around when were you provided that agreement?
A. About a year later.
Q. Now, before you got that agreement, what, if any,
discussions were there about which company G Translators would
have a loan agreement with?
A. It is discussion with the Brother Long Island Chang Dao
about who sign this loan agreement. Brother Chang Dao said
before we prepare to sign with ACA, but William Je refuse to
sign, so we have to find another company to sign. We're
waiting -- waiting for instruction another company to sign.
Because I ask why take so long to get the agreement.
Q. You said Chang Dao mentioned ACA.
A. Yeah.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1382
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
Q. What, if any, knowledge did you have about what ACA was?
A. ACA is one of Miles Guo's company.
Q. To your knowledge, where is it?
A. In Abu Dhabi.
Q. Did you have any other information about it?
A. No.
Q. Did you know what William Je's role was at ACA?
A. I don't know.
THE COURT: Are you saying Abu Dhabi?
THE WITNESS: Abu Dhabi.
Q. Ms. Li, just try and keep your voice up, please.
A. Okay.
Q. Thank you.
Did you know why a loan agreement with ACA would have
required William Je to sign it?
A. I don't know.
Q. Now, Ms. Li, were you sent a loan agreement between your
farm and ACA?
A. No.
Q. What was the company on the loan agreement you ultimately
received?
A. Alfa Global Ventures.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could show the
witness what's marked as Government Exhibit VI-20.
Q. Ms. Li, what's this document?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1383
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
A. This loan agreement between my farm, G Translator, with
headquarter company called Alfa Global Ventures Limited.
MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government
Exhibit VI-20.
THE COURT: No objection?
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may we just have a minute?
THE COURT: Okay.
(Counsel conferred)
MS. SHROFF: We have no objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-20 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.
If we could publish that, please, Ms. Loftus.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. All right. Ms. Li, do you see at the top here, top center
it says "Promissory Note"?
A. Yes.
Q. Beneath that, what is the principal amount?
A. Three million.
Q. Three million and some change?
A. Yeah.
Q. And what was the effective date?
A. 8th of October, 2020.
Q. Is that the date you received this loan agreement?
A. No, this is the day I send the money to Medical Supply.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1384
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
Q. And about how long after October 8, 2020 did you receive
this agreement?
A. About a year later.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could zoom out. And
if we could blow up the bottom third or so where it says "Now
therefor."
Q. Who is the borrower in this loan agreement?
A. It's called Alfa Global Ventures Limited, a British Virgin
Island corporation.
Q. Did you send money to Alfa Global Ventures Limited?
A. No.
Q. All right. Now, Ms. Li, underneath interest rate --
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, to the extent it's relevant,
it's past 2:45. I didn't know how long we were going today.
THE COURT: We're going to go to 3.
Q. Actually, before we turn to interest rate, on Alfa Global,
where was that company based?
A. British Virgin Island.
Q. All right. And now focusing on interest rate, what is the
interest rate listed in the contract?
A. Three percent per annum.
Q. Three percent per annum?
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could scroll down to
the bottom, page 7.
Q. Who signed this?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1385
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
A. It's me.
Q. Who signed it for the borrower?
A. No one.
Q. Is there a name listed?
A. No.
Q. Is there a title listed?
A. No.
Q. Ms. Li, have you reviewed this contract previously?
A. No.
Q. Why did you sign it?
A. Because this every farm required to sign.
MR. FERGENSON: We can zoom out.
Q. Ms. Li, who sent you this loan agreement?
A. Zhang Yongbin.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could show the
witness what's marked as Government Exhibit 121.
Q. Ms. Li, who's this?
A. Zhang Yongbin.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
121.
MS. SHROFF: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit 121 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Can you please publish, Ms. Loftus.
Q. Ms. Li, who is Zhang Yongbin?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1386
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
A. Zhang Yongbin is one of Miles Guo's supporters.
Q. And what's your understanding of his occupation?
A. He's a lawyer, immigration lawyer in U.S.
Q. After you signed the Alfa Global loan agreement, what did
you do with it?
A. I send it back to him.
Q. Did you ever receive a copy signed by Alfa Global?
A. No.
Q. We saw the loan agreement included interest payments;
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you ever asked to calculate what you were owed?
A. Yes.
Q. By whom?
A. Zhang Yongbin.
Q. When did Zhang Yongbin ask you to do that?
A. Same time, when we prepare this loan, sign this loan
agreement.
Q. And what did you do in response?
A. I calculated and send it to Zhang Yongbin.
Q. Did you ever receive interest payments?
A. No.
Q. To your knowledge, did your farm members ever receive
interest payments?
A. No.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1387
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
Q. Did you ever receive GTV stock?
A. No.
Q. To your knowledge, did your farm members ever receive GTV
stock?
A. No.
MR. FERGENSON: You can take it down, Ms. Loftus.
Q. Now, Ms. Li, are you aware of other farms receiving
interest payments?
A. Yes.
Q. Which ones?
A. Mountain Spices.
Q. Any others?
A. No.
Q. Where was Mountains of Spices based?
A. In New York, a New York farm.
Q. And what, if any, connection did Brother Chang Dao or
Brother Long Island have to that?
A. He's leader of this farm.
Q. And how do you know that that farm received interest
payments?
A. We have a discussion with Brother Island Chang Dao, and he
said --
Q. Ms. Li, please keep your voice up.
A. Oh. We have a discussion with Brother Island Chang Dao.
He said that Mountain Spices farm received the interest.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1388
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
Q. What's your understanding of why Mountains of Spices
received interest payments?
A. Because that time SEC start investigation Mountain Spices
farm.
Q. And what did the SEC's investigation have to do with paying
interest to Mountains of Spices?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
Q. To your understanding.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. Because they want to show the SEC this real loan, not for
GTV shares.
Q. Ms. Li, were the farm loan program contracts real loans?
A. No, it's for GTV shares.
Q. Now, we talked about how Miles Guo told you to send your
farm's money to Medical Supply or two million to Medical
Supply.
A. Yeah.
MS. SHROFF: Objection. That was not a question.
THE COURT: The question is coming.
Q. Did Miles Guo tell you where to send the -- send other
farms' loan program funds as well?
A. Yes.
Q. Please describe how that worked.
A. So other farm collect enough money so they would ask for
bank account. Then I would ask Miles Guo where to send. He
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1389
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
will send me the bank account detail and I send back to other
farms.
Q. Where was the other farm loan money being sent?
A. ACA Capital.
Q. And remind us, where is ACA Capital's bank account?
A. It's in Abu Dhabi.
Q. Now, Ms. Li, you said earlier Guo told you to keep $1
million of your farm money; correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. What did you do with that $1 million?
A. So I made payment to IT Contractors customer services, and
as Miles Guo's other directions.
Q. Did you coordinate that with Guo directly?
A. No, is through Yvette Wang.
Q. And why did you coordinate with Yvette Wang on that?
A. Miles Guo say Yvette Wang will tell me how to do it.
Q. What is Yvette Wang's Chinese name?
A. Wang Yan Pin.
Q. Could you -- for the court reporter, could you please spell
that, Ms. Li.
A. W-A-N-G, Y-A-N, P-I-N.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, could we please show just
the witness what's marked as Government Exhibit VI-173. And we
could scroll a couple of pages down for the witness. And we
could scroll up.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1390
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
Q. Ms. Li, what's this document?
A. This confirmation about G Translators farm loan program pay
for headquarter some expenses.
Q. And who signed this document?
A. Wang Yan Pin and me.
MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government
Exhibit VI-173.
THE COURT: No objection?
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I think we do actually have
an objection.
THE COURT: All right. So let's save that for later
on.
MR. FERGENSON: Given the time, your Honor, would you
like me to -- I think it's maybe 2:58. Should we break at this
point?
THE COURT: Yes, I think it's a good idea.
So, members of the jury, we're going to stop for the
day. Tomorrow morning you'll come in at -- into the courtroom
at 9, but you can come into the jury room at 8:30; your
breakfast will be there at 8:30.
Remember that you're not allowed to discuss the case
amongst yourselves, you're not permitted to let others discuss
it in your presence. Don't read, watch or listen to anything
from any source concerning anything having to do with this
case. Have a good evening.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1391
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: You may be seated.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, may we excuse the witness?
THE COURT: Yes, you may be excused. And don't
discuss your testimony. You may step off -- out.
(Witness not present)
THE COURT: So I would like the attorneys to be ready
tomorrow at 8:45 to discuss any matters before we start at 9
a.m.
MR. FERGENSON: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: Is there anything -- well, we have the
open objection. Ms. Shroff.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I actually just wanted -- I
have to confer, because I wasn't sure about the translation to
173. So that was essentially my objection. And I'd be happy
to get back to them before court tomorrow as to whether or not
we maintain the objection or not.
MR. FERGENSON: It is mostly in Mandarin, your Honor.
There's parts of it that are just in English. We're not
offering a translation, just the original.
MS. SHROFF: So this is a new one for me.
I'm pretty sure that one juror has some language
skills. I can't take a position right now. I do need to
confer. I'd be happy to --
THE COURT: All right. So we can discuss that at 8:45
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1392
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
tomorrow.
Is there anything else?
MR. FERGENSON: I think, your Honor, we could probably
be able to give them a translation. We're happy to try and do
that as soon as we can after this so they can review it. And
if we want to offer the translation, we're fine with that, too.
THE COURT: Okay. That's a good idea.
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I had a commitment tomorrow
morning, which I'm happy to move around, but I have the same
one on Friday. I just need to know how much longer the direct
will be. I'm not asking the Court to change its position of
having anybody come in earlier. I just need to know if we are
actually going to go all day tomorrow for the direct.
MR. FERGENSON: I'm sorry, is the question if my
direct will go all day?
MS. SHROFF: How long his direct will go, that's the
question.
MR. FERGENSON: It's always -- I'm always -- I'm
hesitant to estimate. I don't think all day, your Honor, but
there's a fair amount more to talk about. I'd say possibly
two-thirds, maybe less of -- two-thirds remaining, hopefully a
little less than that.
MS. SHROFF: Okay. I will move my schedule around.
It's fine. It's okay, your Honor. Thank you.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1393
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O65VGUO4 Ya Li - Direct
THE COURT: Is there anything else you wanted to
raise?
MS. SHROFF: No, your Honor. Thank you.
THE COURT: All righty. Have a good evening.
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.
(Adjourned to June 6, 2024 at 8:45 a.m.)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1394
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
INDEX OF EXAMINATION
Examination of: Page
JENNY LI
1259Cross By Mr. Schirick . . . . . . . . . . . .
YA LI
1315Direct By Mr. Fergenson . . . . . . . . . . .
GOVERNMENT EXHIBITS
Exhibit No. Received
VI-184 1344 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Stip-10 1345 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
184-T 1346 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
37 1349 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VK-5 1365 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-158 1369 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-158-T 1369 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-20 1383 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
121 1385 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Translated Text(简体中文翻译)
【中文翻译 仅供参考】
O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 1 / 87页
美国纽约南区法院
-------------------------------------------------------x
美国政府
控方 23 Cr. 118 (AT)
郭文贵
辩方
-------------------------------------------------------x
纽约州纽约市，
2024 年 6 月 5 日
上午 9:05
庭前:
尊敬的阿娜丽莎-托雷斯法官大人
地区法官
-陪审团-
出庭律师:
达米安-威廉姆斯
纽约南区美国联邦检察官
代表：迈卡·F·费根森
瑞安·B·芬克
贾斯廷·霍顿
朱莉安娜·N·莫里
助理美国检察官
萨布丽娜·P·施洛夫
被告律师
PRYOR CASHMAN LLP
被告律师
【中文翻译 仅供参考】
O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 2 / 87页
代表：西德哈达·卡马拉珠
马修·巴肯
ALSTON & BIRD LLP
被告律师
代表：E·斯科特·舒里克
出席人员：
伊莎贝尔·洛夫特斯，法律助理，美国检察官办公室
迈克尔·加特兰，法律助理，美国检察官办公室
杰弗里·米尔恩斯，法律助理，美国检察官办公室
罗伯特·斯托特，联邦调查局特工
鲁本·蒙蒂利亚，辩方律师助理
黄拓，普通话翻译
石峰，普通话翻译
唐玉马克，普通话翻译
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 3 / 87页 (审判恢复; 陪审团不在场) 法官说：早上好。请介绍你们自己。 霍顿律师说：早上好，法官大人。贾斯汀·霍顿、莱恩·芬克和朱莉安娜·莫里代表 政府。我们还有律师助理伊莎贝尔·洛夫特斯和 FBI 探员罗伯特·斯托特在场。 法庭书记员说：辩护律师不在。 法官说：请坐下。我们等他们。 舒里克律师说：抱歉，法官大人。 法官说：请介绍你们自己。 舒里克律师说：早上好，法官大人。斯科特·舒里克和马特·巴尔坎代表被告郭先 生，与郭先生一起在律师席。 法官说：你们可以坐下了。在我们回到证人证词之前，有什么要提出的吗？ 芬克律师说：只有一件事，法官大人，这将影响今天的第二或第三名证人，这名 证人是受害者，也是被告的追随者，并且与被告有广泛的合作。这是您在限制性 动议中讨论的主题。那名证人知道被告被监禁，并通过他的代理人在他被监禁期 间进行交流。我们根据您的裁决指示该证人不要提到他被监禁。显然，我们不会 告诉证人该说什么，但为了遵守法庭的裁决，我们指示了她。只是想记录在案。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，有一个事务性问题我忘了提，卡马拉珠律师和施洛夫 律师也在这里，只是不在律师席，但他们很快就会来。 法官说：那么我们将于 9:29继续。请让证人上证人席。 (休庭) (陪审团不在场) 法官说：请坐下。现在我要让口译员宣誓。 (口译员宣誓) 法官说：请在我左边的口译员说出你的名字。 口译员说：Ziyou Parker。 法官说：请描述你的教育背景。 口译员说：我毕业于中国，拥有学士学位，十年前来到纽约市。我在纽约大学完 成了高级 ESL 课程。目前我在联邦移民法院工作，持有联邦移民法院认证的普通 话口译员资格。 法官说：那么你英语和普通话都很流利吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 4 / 87页 口译员说：是的。 法官说：先生，请描述一下你的教育背景。 口译员说：我拥有印第安纳大学的硕士学位，在纽约地区从事翻译和口译工作超 过 20 年。我持有纽约州、新泽西州和宾夕法尼亚州的认证。我在联邦法院和州法 院工作。 法官说：你的名字，先生？ 口译员说：王联。 法官说：你普通话和英语都很流利，对吗？ 口译员说：对。 法官说：好的，谢谢。请让陪审员进来。 （陪审团在场） 法官说：请坐下。早上好，陪审员们。欢迎回来。我在 9:33让你们进来，因为我 们的视听系统有些问题，现在大部分已经修复，所以延迟了几分钟。请继续审问 证人。 证人 Jenny Li，之前已宣誓，作如下证词： 由舒里克律师继续进行的交叉询问： 问：谢谢你，法官大人。李女士，感谢你今天早上回来��你记得昨天你作证说在审判前大 约与政府代表见过八次吗？ 法官说：看来我们在左边的麦克风也有问题。他们正在处理，我们等一下。 （暂停） 法官说：我刚刚被告知昨天有电压波动干扰了设备，所以希望我们找到了正确的 解决方法。你可以继续。 舒里克律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。我可以问法庭书记是否记录下了问题吗？ （记录被读出） 法官说：我认为现在最好的办法是休息一下，我们可以让整个团队进来修理这些 设备。记住不要私下讨论案件。我给你们的所有警告仍然适用。 （陪审团不在场） 法官说：我被告知讲台的麦克风也坏了，所以我们需要重新检查整个系统。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 5 / 87页 芬克律师说：法官大人，我认为律师席的麦克风是可以用的。也许我们可以用那 个麦克风。 法官说：你是说把它延长到讲台吗？ 芬克律师说：或者在桌子那里提问。他可以站在桌子那里提问。 法官说：辩方对此有何意见？ 舒里克律师说：说实话，法官大人，我更喜欢在讲台上提问。 法官说：明白了。很好。我们会把这些麦克风修好。你可以下去了。 (休庭) 法官说：请坐下。请让陪审员回来。 （陪审团在场） 法官说：请坐下。你可以继续了。 舒里克律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 问：李女士，你记得昨天作证说在审判前大约与政府代表见过八次吗？ 答：是的，我昨天见过他。 法官说：我希望你在说中文和英语时都使用麦克风。 你说普通话也说英文，我对口译员说的。继续。 问：你说的昨天见过他是什么意思？ 答：那是你问我的问题。 问：女士，我的问题是，你记得你作证说在审判前大约与政府代表，各种不同代表，见过 八次吗？ 答：是的，我见过。 问：其中一些会议是通过电话进行的，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：其中一些会议是视频会议，对吗？ 答：虚拟视频会议。 问：好的，就像 Zoom，对吗？ 答：我不知道 Zoom。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 6 / 87页 问：好的，但是是通过视频进行的虚拟会议，不管用什么工具，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：其中一些会议是面对面的，对吗？ 霍顿律师说：反对，法官大人。我们昨天已经详细讨论过这个问题了。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：是的。 问：你记得与证券交易委员会（SEC）的代表谈过话吗？ 答：不记得。 问：你和国土安全部的成员谈过话，对吗？ 答：我见过一些人，但我不确定他们来自哪个部门。 问：你记得在 2023 年 7月通过虚拟会议与国土安全调查局的特工进行过一次调查吗？ 答：不记得。 问：你不记得了吗？ 答：我记得是在六月。 问：所以你记得这次会议，只是你认为时间是在 2023 年 6 月，对吗？ 法官说：有答案吗？ 口译员说：请稍等。可以再问一遍问题吗？ 舒里克律师说：我认为有答案。如果法庭允许，我们可以读回问题和答案。 法官说：我的记忆是她说请稍等。 舒里克律师说：我认为那是在答案之后，法官大人。我可能错了。 法官说：如果书记员能读回问题和答案。 （记录被读出） 法官说：律师，请上前一步。 （边栏会议讨论） 法官说：我想建议，当然你不必接受这个建议，你可以使用更简单的词语。所以 不要说“你记得昨天作证吗”，可以说“你记得昨天在法庭上说过什么吗”。 舒里克律师说：我会尽力的，法官大人。 法官说：谢谢。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 7 / 87页 （在公开法庭） 舒里克律师问：让我换一种方式问。你记得在 2023 年 6 月与国土安全部成员交 谈过吗？ 答：不记得。 问：你认为你是什么时候与国土安全调查组成员交谈的？ 答：2022 年 6 月。 问：好的，谢谢。你记得在 2023 年 4 月与政府的霍顿先生见过面吗？ 答：我不记得确切日期。 问：你记得是在 2023 年春天吗？ 答：不记得。 问：你认为是什么时候？ 答：今年，2024 年。 问：你记得在 2024 年 5 月与霍顿先生见过面吗？ 答：我记得我与政府的某人有过三次视频联系，但我不记得日期。 问：那些视频联系是在今年春天吗？ 答：是的。 问：现在，在我们昨天休庭之前，我记得你提到你参加过一些抗议活动。你记得吗？ 答：记得。 问：我说的对吗，2020 年 9 月你在洛杉矶参加了一次抗议活动？ 答：是 2020 年 8 月 29 日。 问：有延续到 2020 年 9 月吗？ 答：没有，是 8 月 29 日。 问：抗议活动是在洛杉矶的中国领事馆外进行的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：抗议是针对中国在疫情期间对待香港抗议者的方式，对吗？ 答：可以再问一遍问题吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】
O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 8 / 87页
问：你是在抗议中国对待香港抗议者的方式，对吗？
答：是的。
问：是喜马拉雅农场组织了那次抗议活动，对吗？
口译员说：可以再给口译员重复一遍问题吗？
法官说：重复问题。
问：是喜马拉雅农场组织了那次抗议活动，对吗？
答：可以让口译员再翻译一遍问题吗？
口译员说：从口译员那里，我没听清楚是哪家组织。
舒里克律师说：叫喜马拉雅农场。
答：郭文贵促使基层的农场积极参与。
问：郭先生当时在洛杉矶参加那次抗议吗？
答：他不在洛杉矶，他在酒店。
问：谁在洛杉矶组织抗议活动？
答：我们响应郭文贵的号召。
舒里克律师说：法官大人，申请删除回答，因为没响应问题。
法官说：同意。答案删除。
问：谁在洛杉矶，实际在洛杉矶指挥抗议活动？
答：郭文贵在高层下达指示。低层是一个庞大的组织，有一个叫魏丽红的人属于低层。
问：是叫 Sara Wei吗？
答：是的。
问：洛杉矶有没有一个叫Michelle Peng的人？
答：她的中文名字是 Feng Qing Peng。
口译员说：口译员将拼写为 F-E-N-G, Q-I-N-G, P-E-N-G。
舒里克律师说：请口译员把麦克风靠近嘴边。
问：Michelle Peng就是你刚才用普通话名字识别的那个人，对吗？
答：还有另一个人。
问：你认识一个叫Michelle Peng的人吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 9 / 87页 答：是的，我认识。 问：那个人的粤语名字或普通话名字是什么？ 答：Feng Qing Peng。 口译员说：我将拼写为 F-E-N-G, Q-U-I-N-G，姓 P-E-N-G。 问：好的。接下来我会把那个人称为 Michelle Peng，可以吗？ 答：我不知道她的真实名字。他们一直用网名。她的网名是Wen Lei。 问：无论是那个名字还是另一个名字，接下来你明白我在提问中会称那个人为 Michelle Peng吗？ 答：好的。 问：谢谢。Michelle Peng是凤凰农场的组织者吗？ 答：我会说她是魏丽红的助手。 问：我们可以同意在我的提问中将魏丽红称为Sara Wei吗？ 答：好的。 问：所以 Michelle Peng是为Sara Wei工作的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你开始怀疑——撤回。你记得你在洛杉矶之行中开始怀疑Michelle Peng吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是因为她在洛杉矶偷偷拍摄示威者，对吗？ 答：不是她。 问：你为什么在洛杉矶之行中开始怀疑Michelle Peng？ 答：因为我亲眼看到的一些事情。 问：你能详细解释一下吗？ 答：我是说在示威期间发生的一些事情。 问：那是什么？ 答：有人告诉其他人，当他们面对领事馆时，应该摘掉口罩以便拍照。 问：是彭女士说的吗？ 答：我不是在说彭女士。我是说其他人在偷偷拍照。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 10 / 87页 问：你能认出那个偷偷拍照的人吗？ 答：是的，我能认出来。尽管那个人戴着口罩，但我仍然能认出他。 问：那个人是作为抗议的一部分在场的吗？ 答：不是。 问：是谁告诉抗议者在面对领事馆时摘掉口罩的？ 答：就是那个拍照的人。 问：你之前作证说你开始怀疑Michelle Peng，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：为什么？ 答：她在领导小组。她是Sara Wei的代表。 问：她在抗议中做了什么让你怀疑她？ 答：这个问题涉及很多因素。你要我全部说出来吗？ 问：这样说吧——撤回。 抗议者有做什么让你觉得他们可能打算将抗议者暴露给中共吗？ 霍顿律师说：反对，法官大人，问题形式不当。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：是的。 问：所以你当时认为与你一起抗议的人可能不是真正的运动成员，对吗？ 答：那个人不是我们中的一员。那个人是从外面来的。他是为郭文贵画国旗的人。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，申请删除这个不相关的回答。 法官说：答案删除。 舒里克律师说：请书记员读回问题。 （记录被读出） 答：是的。 问：所以当时你认为有可能一些运动成员是假的，对吗？ 霍顿律师说：反对，法官大人。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 11 / 87页 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：是的。 问：你是否认为有可能这些人中有中共间谍？ 答：我没有—— 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，很抱歉打断，但郭先生听不到口译员的声音。 法官说：请口译员把麦克风靠近一些，让后面的人也能听到你说的中文和 英文。 口译员说：现在可以了吗？ 法官说：你说点什么。 口译员说：可以请证人重复她的答案吗？ 法官说：这样音量够了吗？ 施洛夫律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 法官说：好的，你可以请她重复她的答案。 答：这两个人在偷偷拍照，他们与其中一个领导有联系，当然是 Michelle，他们有一些联 系。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，申请删除这个不相关的回答。 法官说：你说你认为有些人是假的？ 证人说：我不是这个意思。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，我认为那不是最后一个待回答的问题。我问的 是关于中共的问题。 法官说：我将删除我自己的问题和给出的答案。 舒里克律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。也许我可以稍微改变一下问题的表述。 问：根据你在洛杉矶抗议的经历，你是否担心与你一起的抗议者中有中共间谍？ 答：我没有怀疑，直到那两个人开始偷偷拍照。一个是 C-H-U, X-I-N-Z-E。另一个是 Cici 口译员说：口译员丢失了部分网名。 法官说：你可以请她重复一下。 答：G-E-P-E-I-P-I，郭文贵认识这个人。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，申请删除答案的最后部分。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 12 / 87页 霍顿律师说：反对。 法官说：我将删除从“郭”这个词开始的部分。 舒里克律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 问：所以可以说在你观察到这两个人的行为后，你确实有了怀疑，对吗？ 霍顿律师说：反对，已经问过并回答过了。 法官说：我会允许这个问题和答案。继续。 答：是的。 法官说：这两个人是抗议的一部分吗？ 证人说：不是。 法官说：你认为他们是假装成抗议的一部分吗？ 证人说：这两个人没有参与抗议。他们是从其他地方来的。 法官说：继续。 舒里克律师 问：但你见过这些人，对吗？ 答：我在现场见过。 问：对不起。 答：我在现场见过。 问：在现场。现在我们谈谈德克萨斯的抗议活动。 那里的抗议活动中有某些行为也让你担心，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你之前作证说你为德克萨斯抗议活动预付了一大笔钱，对吗？ 答：我没有说我拿到了很多钱。他们欠我钱。 问：当我说预付时，为了明确，我是指你为德克萨斯抗议活动支付了费用，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：而且农场没有报销你的费用，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：你没有从农场得到任何还款，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 13 / 87页 答：我没有。 问：你对此感到不满，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你是因为Sara Wei要求你预付这些钱，对吗？ 答：Wang Lei。 问：那是Sara Wei吗？ 答：Feng Quing Peng和其他人。一个新名字，X-I-A-O，F-E-N-G，Z-H-U，还有另一个 人，S-U-N，W-E-I，R-O-N-G。 问：好的。你当时理解你支付这些费用时Sara Wei 会还你钱，对吗？ 法官说：你是指还她钱吗？ 舒里克律师说：谢谢你，法官大人，感谢建议。 问：Sara Wei 会还你钱，对吗？ 答：所有这三个人 Sara Wei 都说他们会还我钱。他们说会在活动后几天还我钱。 问：但他们没有这样做，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在 2020 年底停止了任何与郭先生相关的项目投资，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：到 2021 年，你开始批评运动中的许多人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：实际上，从 2021 年 2 月开始，你发布了对某些运动成员批评的直播，对吗？ 答：是的，我使用的是 GTV或我称之为郭 TV的媒体。 由辩方律师舒里克先生提问： 问：谢谢。 在 2021 年 2 月直播之前，没有人因为你不参加运动而攻击你，对吗？ 答：我不太理解这个问题。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 14 / 87页 问：好的。让我再试一次。 到 2020 年底，你停止参加运动活动，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：当你停止参加运动活动时，没有人因为你不参加而攻击你，对吗？ 答：我们没有实体办公室，我们只使用所有的便利工具。如果我没有在网上发布我的—— 我的交流信息，没有人会看到我。 问：我的问题是，没有人因为你不参加而批评你，对吗？ 答：对不起，我还是不明白。我不明白你说的批评我是什么意思。 问：你作证说到 2020 年底，你停止参加运动活动。 答：活动只是在线上。如果你不在线上发布，没有人会知道你是否活跃。 问：好的。所以当你不活跃时，没有人打扰你，对吗？ 答：没有人能看到——我们看不到彼此，所以谁会打扰我？ 问：所以答案是没有？ 答：我不知道如何回答这个问题。 问：好的。 答：这只是一个网上骗局。如果我不上网，没有人会接近我。 问：可以理解。 现在，当你在 2021 年 2 月上线时，你指责某些人欺骗你，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你指名道姓了具体的个人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：包括木兰？ 答：是的。 问：包括 Sara Wei？ 答：是的。 问：在这些直播中，你批评了你在现实中见过的线下的人，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】
O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 15 / 87页
答：是的。
问：因为你不喜欢他们的行为，对吗？
答：不是我不喜欢他们。我是说，他们的行为是错误的。
问：可以理解。你认为他们的行为是错误的，因为你觉得他们骗你支付抗议旅行的费用，
对吗？
答：不完全对。
问：那是原因之一，对吗？那是部分原因？
答：是的。
问：好的。你发布或直播了很多次这种批评，对吗？
答：从 40 到 41次。
舒里克律师说：对不起，可以请口译员重复一下吗？
口译员丰实说：从 40 到 41次。
问：对不起，这些数字指的是什么？
答：我用郭 TV批评这些线下的人，包括木兰和其他人。次数是 40 到 41次。
问：所以是 40——进行过 40或 41次？
答：是的，直播了 40 到 41次。
问：明白了。谢谢你的澄清。你这样做时，没有被驱逐出运动，对吗？
答：是的。
问：我说得对吗，你没有被驱逐出运动？
舒里克律师说：如果我们能请证人说正确或不正确。
霍顿律师说：反对。
舒里克律师说：法官大人，我不确定还能怎么问。
法官说：你可以要求她回答正确或不正确。你可以这样问她。
问：前一个问题撤回。
请回答正确或不正确：在你直播了 40或 41次后，你没有被驱逐出运动，对吗？
答：我被踢出了郭 TV。
问：那是什么时候发生的？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 16 / 87页 答：我不记得确切时间。我会说是从 3 月 20 日到 3 月 21 日之间。 口译员王联说：法官大人，可以更换口译员吗？ 法官说：可以。 口译员王联说：好的。 问：好的。有一次你直接联系郭先生，讨论报销费用的问题，对吗？ 答：不正确。 问：你从未和郭先生谈过报销问题吗？ 答：我和他谈过报销费用的问题，但从未谈过退款和退钱的问题。 舒里克律师说：对不起，我可以请口译员重复一下答案吗？我没听清楚。 口译员说：好的，我重复一下。 我和他谈过报销费用的问题，但从未谈过退款和退钱的问题。 问：所以你不记得曾和他谈过退款问题吗？ 答：你指的是哪个具体的退款？ 问：我们之前讨论过，你没有得到抗议旅行费用的报销。 答：正确。 问：你记得和郭先生讨论过这个问题吗？ 答：记得。 问：好的。郭先生是否指出了一些他认为可以帮助你的人，对吗？ 答：你能重复一下你的问题吗？ 问：郭先生指出木兰可以帮助你拿到报销，对吗？ 答：是的，当然他知道。 舒里克律师说：请稍等，法官大人。 （律师讨论） 舒里克律师说：法官大人，我们可以简短地到边栏讨论吗？ 法官说：可以。 （边栏会议讨论）
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 17 / 87页 施洛夫律师说：抱歉，法官大人，我被告知最后一个问题和答案的翻译完全不准 确。 在法庭上有翻译人员坐在那儿，希望其中一位口译员能验证翻译是否正确。我不知 道，我不说中文，所以我不确定郭先生的担忧是否正确。 法官说：好的，让我们把这两位口译员请上来。 施洛夫律师说：对此感到抱歉。 芬克律师说：我们是否应该回到之前的口译员？ 法官说：我想听听他们的意见。 （口译员到场） 法官说：你好。你的名字是？ 口译员丰实说：Shi。 法官说：你在这个审判期间做什么工作？ 口译员丰实说：我为纽约南区法院提供同步口译，为被告郭先生进行同步翻译。 法官说：你是否也听过为证人翻译的口译员的翻译？ 口译员丰实说：是的，我听过。 法官说：你认为口译员刚才的问题和答案翻译正确吗？ 口译员丰实说：我认为不正确。 法官说：你能告诉我翻译哪里不正确吗？ 口译员丰实说：是的，不正确。 法官说：我在问你为什么不正确？ 口译员丰实说：因为我和我的同事谈过——我的同事在哪里？拖，你能过来吗？ 对不起，之后我们—— 口译员黄拖说：法官大人，老实说—— 法官说：实际上，我想先和她谈谈，然后再和你谈。你先退后一下。 （口译员黄拖不在场） 口译员丰实说：我听到她第一次翻译这个问题时，她没有翻译“运动”这个词。我认 为问题是郭先生识别了运动中的人。她只是把那个词翻译成了“普通人群”而不是“运动”，
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 18 / 87页 普通人群而不是“运动”；她没有说“运动”。第二次她翻译问题时，她翻译成：“郭先生能识 别出前进的人”，我相信她是这么说的——这根本不是律师问的问题。 法官说：好的。 口译员丰实说：而且她遗漏了律师问题中的“木兰”这个人名。我没有听到她在翻译 中说“木兰”这个词。 法官说：好的。如果你能退后一下。 施洛夫律师说：所以，法官大人，这就是郭先生向我提出的意见。他说口 译员在问题中从未提到“木兰”这个词。 法官说：我自己也注意到了这一点。 芬克律师说：政府也注意到了。 法官说：好的，所以我们得让她离开。那另一位先生在房间里吗？ 霍顿律师说：他还在这里，法官大人。 芬克律师说：是的。政府的建议是继续使用他。 法官说：好的。 芬克律师说：他就在法庭后面。 施洛夫律师说：也许——法官大人，我可以提个建议吗？ 法官说：可以。 施洛夫律师说：也许我们可以让正在做官方翻译的口译员之一担任检查口 译员。在我另一个案件中，Maas 法官安排了一位检查口译员，如果翻译有错误， 他们会提醒法庭。我们可以试试。我不知道。 法官说：我不熟悉这种程序。我不想采用这种方法。 施洛夫律师说：好的。 芬克律师说：法官大人，一个可能有用的问题是我们考虑下一步时需要多 长时间。 舒里克律师说：这很难说，法官大人。这取决于我们能多快完成。如果是 英语发言者，我可能半小时就完成了。但由于翻译，进展非常缓慢。 芬克律师说：政府认为我们昨天已经覆盖了很多这方面的内容。这是我们 的看法。但是，你认为你还需要一个小时吗？十五分钟？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 19 / 87页 舒里克律师说：芬克律师，我不是在卖关子。我不能告诉你需要多长时间， 因为这取决于翻译问题的难度。 施洛夫律师说：也许你可以去问问口译员，他能不能不换人继续工作。 芬克律师说：好的，这可以。 法官说：是的，我会指示他这样做。 芬克律师说：那更好了。 法官说：但我确实需要通知口译员办公室，让她知道她不会再继续翻译。 实际上，让他过来吧。 芬克律师说：法官大人，辩护律师在这里，那位口译员是我们根据要求聘 请的，因为我们不被允许使用法院口译员。但是我们注意到我们以后不应该再使 用那位口译员；尽管我不认为我们有其他的普通话口译员。我们可能有一两个， 但也可能没有。我们再说。 （口译员王联在场） 法官说：是的。我需要你今天剩下的时间单独翻译。 口译员王联说：好的。 法官说：好的。 芬克律师说：谢谢。 口译员王联说：从现在开始吗？ 法官说：是的。对不起，先生。请你通知你的同事，我们要这样做。 口译员王联说：好的。 法官说：谢谢。 （在公开法庭） 法官说：你可以继续了。 舒里克律师说：请法庭记录员回读最后一个问题。 （记录被读出） 法官说：我想请口译员翻译这个问题。 答：那是在六个月后发生的。 口译员王联说：法官大人，我可以和您谈谈吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 20 / 87页 法官说：可以。律师，上前来。 （边栏会议讨论） 口译员王联说：由于另一位口译员已经离开，我认为她在之前两三个问题中犯了一些错误。 法官说：法庭面前有任何申请吗？ 施洛夫律师说：是的，法官大人。我们想要休息一下。我们需要回顾之前 提出的问题并重新提出。 芬克律师说：法官大人，政府认为舒里克律师先生可以重新问这些问题。 政府不反对删除与口译员有关的回答；我认为只有三四个问题。 法官说：那么我们需要这位先生来确认哪些问题被翻译错误了。 芬克律师说：是的。我认为大约有三四个问题是通过那位口译员提出的。 因此，如果辩护方提出申请，政府不反对删除那些问题和答案。舒里克律师先生 可以从他的提纲中倒退两句重新问。 施洛夫律师说：但我们需要知道错误在哪里。 法官说：我们不知道哪些问题和答案有误。 芬克律师说：明白。 法官说：所以我们需要休息一下，他会查看记录并告知哪些问题和答案没有正确 翻译。 芬克律师说：明白。 （在公开法庭） 法官说：陪审员们，我们要暂停一下。记住，你们不能在自己之间讨论案件；不 要让任何人在你们面前讨论案件。此外，不要阅读、收听或观看任何关于案件的 内容。我会尽快叫你们回来。 （陪审团不在场） 法官说：女士，你可以暂时离开。我很快会叫你回来。不要讨论案件。 （证人不在场） 法官说：但我希望口译员留下来。请口译员上前。我要你和律师以及记录员一起 回顾今早交叉询问中的问题和答案，并确认你认为哪些地方翻译不正确。你将和 律师一起做这件事。我们现在休息一下。 （休庭）
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 21 / 87页 法官说：请坐下。双方就如何继续达成一致了吗？ 舒里克律师说：是的。我认为我们已经确定了翻译错误的起点，所以我知道从哪 里开始重新向证人提问，法官。 法官说：好的。所以我不会听到对重新提问的反对意见，对吗？ 霍顿律师说：对的，法官大人。 法官说：好的。请让陪审员进来。 （陪审团在场） 法官说：请坐下。 （证人在场） 法官说：你可以继续提问了。 舒里克律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 法官说：记住你仍然在宣誓状态下。 证人说：好的。 舒里克律师问：郭先生指出了运动中的一些人可以帮助你报销费用，对吗？ 答：我不太明白“运动中的某些人”。 问：这样说吧—— （律师讨论） 问：我说的“运动”是指凤凰农场中的某些人，对吗？ 答：我认为这个上下文是错误的，没有凤凰。 问：郭先生是否指出了他认为可以帮助你报销费用的人？ 答 ：他没有指出。他让我选择谁可以付我钱，并给了我两个选择。 问：好的。那些人中包括木兰吗？ 答：长岛和木兰。 口译员王联说：“长岛”指的是长岛。 问：是长岛伟哥吗？ 答：是的，夏其东。 舒里克律师：请口译员把麦克风抬高一点。 口译员石风说：抱歉。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 22 / 87页 问：那个人也叫长岛伟哥吗？ 答：不是。 问：那个人还有其他名字吗？ 答：长岛哥。用英文来说就是长岛伟哥。 问：长岛哥，对吗？只是确保我听对了。 答：对。 问：我说得对吗，郭先生也询问了其他需要报销费用的人的名字，对吗？ 答：（用英语）不是。 问：除了你之外，你知道还有其他人需要报销费用吗？ 答：是的。 问：你和郭先生讨论过这个问题吗？ 答：我和他谈过。 问：你不知道他对这些信息做了什么，对吗？ 答：我不知道他做了什么。 问：你从未要求他亲自还你钱，对吗？ 证人说：我可以回答吗？ 法官说：可以。 答：郭先生在电话中告诉我，他可以用自己的钱还我。 我说不，不需要。我还告诉他还有其他需要还钱的人。我希望他们能够通过正常方式得到 报销。 问：好的。你早些时候作证说到 2020 年底，你认为 GTV是一个骗局，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：因此，这是你与郭先生谈话时的想法，撤回。 所以在你 2021 年 2 月与郭先生沟通时的想法对吗？ 答：是的。 问：但你在与他通话时并没有告诉他这个想法，对吗？ 答：你是指我的怀疑吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 23 / 87页 问：你在 2021 年 2 月与他沟通时没有告诉他你的怀疑，对吗？ 答：我害怕告诉他。 问：所以答案是是的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你没有告诉他你担心可能拿不回你的钱，对吗？ 答：我说过。顺便说一下，我和谁谈话来着？ 问：对不起。可以请你重复一下答案吗—— 口译员丰实说：证人在问你问题。 答：你能慢点吗。 口译员丰实说：她在说你能慢点吗。 问：当然。为了清楚起见，你在与他通话时并没有表达这些担忧，对吗？ 答：我没有说过。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，我看了一下时间，现在可能是午休的合适时机。 法官说：好的。我们现在休息半小时，陪审员们。你们将在中午返回法庭。记住 你们不能讨论案件；你们不能阅读、观看或听取任何有关案件的内容。 （陪审团不在场） 法官说：请坐下。我们在中午开始之前还有什么事吗？ 芬克律师说：是的，法官大人。证人在这里。 法官说：哦，对不起。对不起。女士，你可以出去。不要讨论案件。 （证人不在场） 法官说：继续。 芬克律师说：法官大人，我其实不太愿意提起这个问题，但政府在注意法官大人 上周在您的更衣室里对律师的指示。昨晚和今天早上，我们告诉了辩护团队的成 员，我们的下一位证人从澳大利亚来，我们的意图是在星期五让她回家，如果不 是提前的话。我们还有另一名证人，一个来自德克萨斯的平民，他下周将会出差， 我们希望在本周结束前让他上庭并完成证词。辩护律师知道这一点。我今天早上
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 24 / 87页 与辩护团队的一位成员谈过。我理解这位特定证人和口译员以及技术方面有一些 问题，这些都在大家的控制之外。 当法官大人允许律师审查记录时，我向辩护团队的一位成员提出了一些建议，以提高效率。 而我收到的回复带有些许讽刺的语气，好像政府有证人安排问题。我真的不愿意提起这个 问题，因为这是各方应该处理并合作的问题。 法官大人，我的意思是，我们相信有足够的时间对这两个证人进行直接和交叉询问，并完 成这位证人的证词，从而使他们的旅行计划得以维持。因此，法官大人，我希望您考虑一 下，在今天发生的一些事情不在我们的控制范围内的情况下，其他证人的交叉询问时间相 当长，我希望您考虑一下，如果法庭和陪审团都同意，也许明天和必要时星期五我们可以 稍微晚一些结束。我也可以告诉法庭——再次表示不情愿——政府在案件进展方面落后了 几天，坦率地说，比预期的要落后几天。我们在安排证人时遇到了一些问题。下周有证人 要从国外来，这带来了严重的后勤障碍。但我们正在尽力管理证人、陪审团的时间和法官 大人的时间。 因此，政府的申请有两个方面：一是请考虑在必要时明天和星期五稍微晚一些结束；二是 ——再次表示不情愿，法官大人——注意到这似乎是一种策略——我不知道该怎么说，很 抱歉这样说——以应对我们善意地向辩方传达的旅行问题，从而延迟此证人或其他证人的 证词。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，首先，我们对政府申请明天和星期五延迟结束没有任 何问题，如果政府认为这将缓解其证人的旅行问题。我们非常愿意配合。如果政 府有其他建议，我们也愿意听取。我认为，任何看过这位证人的交叉询问的人都 很难不认为这是在泥泞中艰难前行，因为沟通问题和证人不愿意直接回答问题。 正如法官大人所知，昨天和今天您已经多次从记录中删除证人的回答，因为证人 的回答不相关。这既不是辩护方的错，也不是检方的错。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 25 / 87页 因此，如果现在出现的调度延迟是由于这位特定证人的原因，这肯定不能归咎于辩护方。 而且显然没有任何故意的成分。坦白说，这种暗示，我认为——从我们的角度来看，我认 为这是不妥的。 所以我们愿意与检方合作，以配合证人的行程安排。芬克律师在向法庭 提出这个问题之前并没有与我讨论过；也许他和其他人提过，我不确定。但我们愿意尝试 调整时间表，以配合证人的旅行安排。 法官说：我处理过数百个审判。我认为，抛开技术问题不谈，抛开这位证人的局 限性不谈，这次的交叉询问确实是异常缓慢的，我希望你能提高效率。我会问陪 审团他们是否能留在这里晚一些。我们今天也延迟结束会有帮助吗？ 芬克律师说：是的，法官大人。 法官说：好的。我会问他们。当然，你知道，他们的生活计划是围绕我设定的时 间表安排的，我们看看情况。 芬克律师说：我们明白，法官大人。 关于舒里克律师，我理解他的意思，我明白 他的感受。我理解这位特定证人有一些困难。我提到的是在我们检查记录时的一 些评论，这些评论让我觉得这是某种更广泛努力的一部分。但我非常希望我们已 经过去了。对辩护团队的许多成员来说——就像我们四个人一样——我们希望与 辩方高效、负责任、专业地合作，促进证据的有效呈现，以便陪审团做出决定。 这是政府的目标。 舒里克律师说：我们显然也有同样的目标，法官大人。 法官说：好的。那么我们将在中午重新开始。 芬克律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 （午休） 下午庭审 12:00 p.m. （陪审团不在场） 法官说：请坐下。请让陪审员进来，然后再请证人进来。 芬克律师说：法官大人，我认为口译员还没到。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 26 / 87页 法官说：他们在哪里？请坐下。 （陪审团在场） 法官说：请坐下。陪审员们，很不幸，我们的时间表落后了，我正在想办法赶上 进度。所以我想问一下，今天、明天和星期五能否每天下午多增加一小时。我知 道你们已经安排好了时间表，我知道你们可能不能配合我。一个方法是从 9:30 到 12:00，然后休息半小时，然后继续到 3:15。你们可以接受这个安排吗？ 陪审员：今天、明天和星期五？ 法官说：我知道替补陪审员今天、明天和星期五都不能这样做。 陪审员：我在法院后有一个拍摄。 法官说：你在法院后有一个任务？ 陪审员：是的。 法官说：好的。那么如果我们早上 9点开始呢？那可以吗？ 陪审员：可以。 法官说：你可以待到多晚？ 陪审员：到三点。我在市里有一个视频拍摄，本周剩下时间已经排满了客户。 法官说：所以从九点开始，在 11:30 到 12点休息，然后可以继续到下午 3点？ 陪审员：如果大家都可以的话，这对我可以。 法官说：这样安排有问题吗？那从明天开始我们将从 9 点开始，你在 3 点结束， 只是接下来这 3天。感谢你们愿意配合。好。让证人回来继续询问。 舒里克律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 舒里克律师 问：Li 女士，你记得曾经有农场成员提出要还你费用吗？ 答：我现在可以说话吗？ 法官说：可以。继续。如果你们能稍微把麦克风向左一点，因为有回音。继续。 答：首先，魏丽红，W-E-I, L-I-H-O-N-G；第二，S-U-N, W-E-I R-O-N-G；第三，Wei Lei， W-E-I, L-E-I；第四，文洋，W-E-N, Y-A-N-G；第五，Sherry；第六，安红，A-N, H-O-N-
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 27 / 87页 G；第七，郭啸天，G-U-O, X-I-A-O-T-I-A-N；第八，木兰，M-U-L-A-N；最后一个，台 湾大牛，D-A-N-I-U。 问：是否曾经你拒绝了他们——撤回。你拒绝他们还你钱，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：实际上，你拒绝是因为你想继续参与，直到你认为美国政府可以帮助你追回这些钱， 对吗？ 答：不对。 问：你记得今年三月你见到霍顿先生时这样告诉他吗？ 答：我说的是因为他们（农场成员）要我签署一份协议，而我不想签。 问：我的问题是，你记得今年三月见到霍顿先生时，你告诉他你拒绝是因为你想继续参与， 以便美国政府可以帮助你追回这些钱吗？ 答：我没说我期待美国政府还我钱。我是说我想通过美国政府追回这笔钱。我说我不想从 骗子手中拿钱。 问：所以你拒绝了，对吗？ 答：我拒绝是因为他要我签署一份协议。 问：那是在 2021 年，对吗？ 答：2021 年。 问：现在，让我们谈谈你的 H Coin投资。你投资了 5700 美元在 H Coin上，对吗？ 答：哪个实体？ 问：你昨天作证说你购买了 H Coin，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是 5700 美元，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是在 2021 年 7月，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：那是什么时候？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 28 / 87页 答：6 月。 问：所以到 2021 年 6 月，你认为郭先生提供的任何投资都是骗局，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以在你购买 H Coin的时候，你不期望从中获利，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你假设你会损失这笔钱，对吗？ 答：不对。 问：你认为你会拿回这笔钱吗？ 答：两周后我要求收款人退还这笔钱。 问：明白。这不是我问的问题。我的问题是，在你购买 H Coin 之前，你假设你不会拿回 这笔钱，对吗，因为那是一个骗局？ 答：我被迫购买的。 问：但你没有损失钱，对吗？ 答：不对，我损失了 60 美元。 问：女士，那是交易手续费吗？ 答：是的。 问：你要求退款，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你得到了退款，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：郭文贵没有因为你要求退款而攻击你，对吗？ 口译员说：可以再重复一遍问题吗？ 问：郭文贵没有因为你要求退款而攻击你，对吗？ 答：我没有把钱寄给郭文贵。我把钱寄给农场的其他人。 问：对。但是你的证词是郭文贵在背后操控这一切，对吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 29 / 87页 问：他在你要求退款后没有攻击你，对吗？ 答：我在社交媒体上屏蔽了他。 问：你知道郭文贵因为你要求H Coin退款而批评你吗？ 答：我从未见过他。 问：女士，答案是“没有”吗？ 霍顿律师说：反对，法官大人。我们已经讨论过这个问题。 法官说：你是要求我删除这个回答吗？请求是什么？ 舒里克律师说：我申请删除这个不相关的回答。 霍顿律师说：对这个问题有一个待处理的反对，因为已经问过并回答过了。 舒里克律师说：但前一个回答不相关。 法官说：前一个回答不相关，所以我会删除它，这个也是不相关回答。请书记员 重读一遍问题。 （记录被读出） 答：可以再重复一遍最后一个问题吗？ 舒里克律师说：法官大人，在翻译之前，翻译先生，可以确保法庭的指示也被翻 译了吗？我只是请法庭确保法官大人的指示也被翻译给证人。 口译员说：口译员已经翻译了。 法官说：好的。 答：我不知道。 问：谢谢。我想简单谈谈 GClubs。你在直接质询中说你购买了一张 2 万美元的 GClubs 会员卡，对吗？ 答：哪个实体？ 问：GClubs。 答：是的。 问：你在直接质询中说你没有从 GClubs会员中得到任何东西，对吗？ 答：我不太明白这个问题。 问：你作证说你没有从你在 GClubs上花的钱中得到任何东西，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 30 / 87页 答：是的。 问：在你购买之前，你知道它提供某些物品的折扣，对吗？ 答：你说的折扣是什么意思？ 问：它允许你支付比其他人少的钱，对吗？ 答：是的。GClub的会员费从 1万美元到 5万美元不等。 问：好的。折扣是多少？ 答：1万美元享受 10%的折扣；2万美元享受 20%的折扣；3万美元享受 30%的折扣；4 万美元享受 40%的折扣，5万美元享受 50%的折扣。 问：你购买了 2万美元的会员，享受 20%的折扣，对吗？ 口译员说：法官大人，口译员需要核实一些细节。 答：购买GClub会员后，你在GFashion购买商品时可以享受一些折扣，买G-Fashion有 折扣。 问：你曾经尝试使用过那个折扣吗？ 答：从未。 问： GClubs的一个好处是它允许会员在 GTV上直播，我说得对吗？ 答：不是。 问：任何人都可以在 GTV上直播吗？ 答：我认为你的问题中有一些误解。我可以继续回答你的问题吗？ 问：当然。GClubs的一个好处是它给你在 GTV上直播的时间，对吗？ 答：任何人都可以在 GTV 上在线。作为 GTV 的会员，你可以申请你的卡来直播两个小 时。 问：那张卡是 GClubs卡，对吗？ 答：只有一个名字。根本没有实体卡。 问：女士，是你提到卡的概念，对吗？ 答：我们每个人都有一个编号，被标识为 GClub卡。 问：明白了。是这个编号让你可以在 GTV上直播，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 31 / 87页 答：这位律师不理解 GClubs的运作。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，申请删除这个不相关的回答。 法官说：回答删除。 问：Li 女士，没有你的 GClub会员资格，你无法在 GTV上直播，对吗？ 答：我想和法官说话。 法官说：女士，程序是律师提问，你必须回答问题。 证人说：好的，但我不明白他的问题。 法官说：你可以重新措辞问题。 问：你作证说你有一个 GClubs 编号，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：为了在 GTV上直播，你必须使用那个 GClubs 编号，对吗？ 答：还是不对。你问的问题不对。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，申请删除这个不相关的回答。 法官说：回答删除。女士，你作为 GClubs会员是否享受了某些福利？ 证人说：没有。 问：在 GTV上直播的唯一方法是使用你的 GClubs 编号，对吗？ 答：我可以直播两个小时。 问：作为 GClubs会员？ 答：是的。 问：谢谢。你使用了那两个小时的直播，对吗？ 答：我可以在 40 到 41天内使用两个小时。 问：如你之前所作证，你使用了那些时间吗？ 答：我不会说是使用了。 问：你直播过，对吗，女士？你今天早些时候作证了？ 答：我每天都在线，但我认为你问的问题方式不对。你能换一种方式问吗？ 问：我已经用多种方式问了。我的问题是，你今天早些时候作证说你在 GTV 上直播过， 对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 32 / 87页 霍顿律师说：反对，法官大人。这个问题已经被多次问过并回答了。 法官说：我允许她回答这个问题。 答：是的。 问：谢谢。你作证说你在 2020 年 11 月 9 日购买了你的 GClubs会员资格，对吗？ 答：我不记得确切日期。大概是那个时候。 问：让我们看看作为证据的政府证物 VH-9。李女士，你看到你面前的文件了吗？ 答：让我看看。是的，我以前见过。 问：你可以看到这个显示会员资格是在 2020 年 11 月购买的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你记得看到 GClubs的——撤回。你记得看到郭先生宣布 GClubs 启动的视频吗？ 答：是的，我看到了。 问：好的。我们能否简要播放政府证物 C148-V1 的视频，当它第一次发布时你看了吗？ 答：我在德克萨斯。我是在十月看到郭先生关于 GClubs的视频的。 问：我们能否简要播放这段视频，请证人确认这是她提到的视频。 （播放视频） 问：女士，你认出这个音频录音是 GClubs 启动时的吗？ 答：是的，我认得。 问：现在，你昨天作证说你为投资 GTV 而抵押了你的房子，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你昨天作证说你是在 2020 年 4 月第一次了解到 GTV，对吗？ 答：我没听清问题。你能再给我日期吗？ 问：你作证说你是在 2020 年 4 月第一次了解到 GTV 投资机会的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：女士，事实是你在 2020 年 2 月为你的房子办理了抵押贷款，对吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 33 / 87页 问：所以在你办理房屋抵押贷款时，你甚至不知道 GTV的投资机会，对吗？ 答：在 2020 年农历新年之后，郭先生一直在宣传GClub和GTV，声称那是一个新媒体。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，申请删除这个不相关的回答。 法官说：回答删除。 霍顿律师说：反对。 问：女士，当你作证说你办理抵押贷款是为了购买 GTV时，你是在撒谎，对吗？ 答：我说的一切都是真的。郭先生一直说他会与其他人一起建立 GTV。 问：你之前告诉我们，昨天和今天再次提到，大约 30秒前，你第一次听说GTV投资机会 是在 2020 年 4 月，对吗？ 答：不对。你翻译错了。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，我们可以简短地到法官席旁讨论吗？ 法官说：可以。 （边栏会议讨论） 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，很抱歉，但我认为翻译员在混淆 GTV 和 GClubs。在 他翻译的问题中，他没有将 GTV翻译为 GTV，也没有将 GClub翻译为 GClub。 舒里克律师可能想继续，但我认为这是一个混淆。这不是翻译上的混淆。我认为 翻译员没有认识到 GClub和 GTV之间的区别。 法官说：你为什么这么认为？ 施洛夫律师说：因为我能听到GTV和GClub。这一点我能理解，而且我认为我是 对的。 芬克律师说：这很少见，但我同意，法官大人。所以也许舒里克律师可以为翻译 员澄清一下。我的问题是关于 GClub的，然后问翻译员。 舒里克律师说：也许我们可以把翻译员叫过来说明这一点。 施洛夫律师说：我可以先和他商量一下吗？可以和我的同事商量一下吗？ 法官说：可以。 施洛夫律师说：最终他们都会同意我的，法官大人。 芬克律师说：不要走得太远。请把这个记下来。（停顿）
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 34 / 87页 施洛夫律师说：法官，我们是否应该告诉翻译员，G 俱乐部、GTV、投资和私募 投资是四个不同的短语，并请他注意这些；或者我们可以希望他会注意，并交给 —— 芬克律师说：G/Club 和 GTV 之间有区别，我认为应该提醒翻译员注意。投资、 私募投资在她的心目中可能是不同的，因为我认为李女士认为这都是郭先生的一 个投资。 施洛夫律师说：我只是希望他能准确地翻译这些词。我不是在建议答案。 法官说：我要叫他过来。我只是想指出GClub是一个实体，GTV是另一个实体。 所以请你务必准确翻译—— 口译员说：好的。GTV。G/Club。好的。 芬克律师说：辩护律师还有多少问题？ 舒里克律师说：很少。 法官说：哦，太好了。 （在公开法庭上） 舒里克律师说：没有进一步的问题了。 法官说：好的。重定向询问？ 霍顿律师说：没有进一步的问题了，法官大人。 法官说：非常感谢。你可以退庭了。 （证人退场）
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 35 / 87页 2024 年 6 月 5 日 美国诉郭文贵案 庭审笔录 第十位证人证词｜第一部分｜ 法官说：你可以传唤下一个证人。 费根森律师说：美国政府传唤李娅。 （政府传唤作为证人的李娅，经宣誓后证词如下） 法官说：请说出你的名字并拼写。 证人说：李娅，Y-A，L-I。 法官说：你需要对着麦克风说话，说大声一点，以便后排的人也能听见你。 证人说：我的名字是李娅。 法官说：你需要说得更大声一些。请坐下，把麦克风拉近。 证人说：好的，我的名字是李娅。 法官说：你可以坐下。把麦克风拉近你。你可以提问了。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我不确定她是否宣誓了。 法官说：是的，她刚刚宣誓了。继续。 直接审问 费根森律师说： 问：下午好，李女士。 答：下午好，费根森律师。 问：英语是你的母语吗？ 答：不是。 问：如果你不明白某些问题，请告诉我们，好吗？ 答：好的。 问：你住在哪个国家？ 答：澳大利亚。 问：你的工作是什么？ 答：会计。 问：李女士，如果可以的话，请尽量提高你的音量。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 36 / 87页 答：好的。 问：你曾经是郭文贵的支持者吗？ 答：是的。 问：作为郭文贵的支持者，你还用了其他名字吗？ 答：木兰传奇。 问：其他支持者怎么称呼你？ 答：木兰。 问：郭文贵怎么称呼你？ 答：木兰妹妹。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们能播放给陪审团看的政府证物 C40-V吗？ （播放媒体） 费根森律师说：可以暂停。 问：李女士，你认为木兰指的是谁？ 答：那是我。 费根森律师说：可以放下了，洛夫特斯女士。李女士。你说过你是郭文贵的支持 者。在法庭上环顾四周，你今天看到郭文贵在这里吗？ 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我们同意郭文贵坐在我左边，法官大人。谢谢。 法官说：好的。 问：李女士，大致上，你为郭文贵做了什么？ 答：我是秘密翻译组的领导，也是铁血组成员，以及法治基金的董事。 问：秘密翻译组大致上是什么？ 答：秘密翻译组类似于一个农场，是一个为郭文贵做翻译工作的志愿者组织。 问：你在秘密翻译组的职位是什么？ 答：我是负责这个组织的领导。 问：你提到了铁血组。铁血组大致上是什么？ 答：铁血组是喜马拉雅联盟的最高层级。 问：谁挑选了其成员？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 37 / 87页 答：郭文贵。 问：他是成员吗？ 答：是的，他也是其中一员。 问：谁向铁血组提供关于投资的指示？ 答：郭文贵。 问：谁向你提供关于投资的指示？ 答：郭文贵。 问：谁控制与农场相关的投资？ 答：郭文贵。 问：李女士，当你参与这些投资项目时，你相信它们吗？ 答：是的，百分之百相信。 问：你现在对它们的理解是什么？ 答：是骗局。 问：当你是郭文贵运动的支持者时，你对这个运动的看法是什么？ 答：那时这个运动是为了中国的民主运动。我们的目标是推翻中共，建立一个新的中国， 实现自由、法治和民主。 问：你现在对郭文贵运动的看法是什么？ 答：是骗局。 问：你自己有投资吗—— 答：是的。 问：你是否—— 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，对不起，问题还没问完。 法官说：你问完问题了吗？ 问：李女士，你自己有投资吗？ 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：反对。 法官说：你是问她是否以个人身份投资吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 38 / 87页 费根森律师说：是的，法官大人。 问：李女士，你自己是否投资了郭文贵推广的投资项目？ 答：是的。 问：你曾经帮助接收和转移投资者资金作为为郭文贵工作的部分吗？ 答：是的。 问：你曾经花过投资者的钱在自己身上吗？ 答：不，从来没有。 问：花在你的家人身上？ 答：不，从来没有。 问：为什么不？ 答：因为那是投资者的钱，不是我的钱。 问：如果你知道郭文贵把投资者的钱花在他自己和他的家人身上，你还会自己投资吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 问：如果你知道郭文贵将投资者的钱花在自己和家人身上，你还会自己投资吗？ 答：不会。 施洛夫律师说：反对，法官大人。这是假设了未被证实的事实。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：不会。 问：如果你知道这些情况，你还会帮助他进行这些投资项目吗？ 答：不会。 问：如果你知道这些情况，你还会参与这个运动吗？ 答：不会。 问：你说你住在澳大利亚，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你什么时候来到美国的？ 答：大约四天前。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 39 / 87页 问：你到美国之后，有被指定律师吗？ 答：是的。 问：政府给你提供了一份协议吗？ 答：是的。 问：什么样的协议？ 答：不起诉协议。 问：你对不起诉协议的理解是什么 答：我需要讲真话，提供证据，如果需要参加会议，为犯罪作证。 问：作为交换，政府答应做什么？ 答：不起诉。 问：一般来说，政府曾承诺不会因你之前的什么行为起诉你？ 答：我需要说出所有真相。 问：以前的什么行为—— 施洛夫律师说：反对，法官大人。这个回答不相关，我要求删除。 法官说：答案被删除。请重新提问。 问：李女士，你的不起诉协议涉及哪些以前的行为？ 答：我需要讲真话。 施洛夫律师说：相同的反对理由，法官大人，请求删除。 法官说：回答不相关，删除。 问：李女士，政府不会因为你做了什么而起诉你？ 答：我需要讲真话，提供证据，参加会议，作证。 施洛夫律师说：反对，相同的反对理由，请求删除回答。 法官说：反对有效，删除回答。 问：李女士，我理解你需要做什么—— 施洛夫律师说：反对。这不是一个问题。 法官说：我在等问题。继续。 问：我只是想问，什么行为是你的不起诉协议的主题？它涵盖了什么行为？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 40 / 87页 答：因为我参与了郭文贵的活动。 问：如果你今天撒谎的话，你认为不起诉协议是否会保护你免受伪证、妨碍司法或作伪证 的起诉？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：不会。 问：如果你在这里撒谎，政府能取消你的不起诉协议吗？ 答：是的。 问：那么你能因为你的行为被起诉吗？ 答：是的。 问：你向政府做的陈述能被用来对付你吗？ 答：是的。 问：除了不起诉协议，政府还有对你做出任何承诺吗？ 答：没有。 问：李女士，你曾经被逮捕过吗？ 答：没有。 问：你是几天前自愿还是非自愿来到美国的？ 答：自愿。 问：联邦调查局有协助你进入这个国家吗？ 答：是的。 问：你会在这里永久居留还是在作证后离开？ 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，这些都是引导性问题。我反对，因为这是直接审问。 法官说：我们可以非常慢地进行，也可以允许一些引导性问题。 施洛夫律师说：好的，法官大人。 问：你是——对不起，李女士，你在作证后会留在美国还是回到澳大利亚？ 答：回到澳大利亚。 问：你是一个人旅行还是和其他人一起？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 41 / 87页 施洛夫律师说：反对，相关性。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 问：你是一个人旅行还是和其他人一起？ 答：和我女儿一起。 问：有什么样的执法人员和你一起旅行吗？ 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：反对，引导性问题。 法官说：有执法人员和你一起旅行吗？ 证人说：是的。 问：据你了解，谁支付了你和你女儿飞往美国的机票？ 答：美国政府。 问：谁支付了你和你女儿在美国的酒店费用？ 答：美国政府。 问：你知道谁支付了澳大利亚执法人员的机票和酒店费用吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：李女士，你女儿多大了？ 答：十一岁。 问：你在与政府会面时，联邦调查局有照看你的女儿吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，相关性。法官大人，我们可以到旁边讨论一下吗？ 法官说：好的。 （边栏会议讨论） 法官说：还有多少这种背景问题？ 费根森律师说：不多了，法官大人。我只是简要涵盖一下偏见的标准，针对像这 种合作证人简要涉及这些内容。我很快就会继续。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，她和她 11岁的女儿一起旅行这没有任何关联。她女 儿的年龄与陪审团前的任何事情都没有关联。完全没有关联——我可以理解关于
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 42 / 87页 谁支付了机票，当然；谁报销了费用，当然；但她和谁一起旅行与她的女儿无 关。她的年龄也没有关联。 辩护方现在处于一个它没有预见到的位置。我不需要交叉质询一个带着女儿的证 人。现在我必须跟进，所以我反对。我不认为这相关。或许执法人员，我甚至不认为这相 关，但这是我反对的原因。我不认为这是恰当的，也不相关，郭先生是否犯了洗钱、电信 诈骗或任何形式的欺诈。这与她的女儿没有任何关系。 费根森律师说：法官大人，这只是为了揭示偏见。如果他们不打算在偏见 上交叉质询她，那我就继续。 法官说：我不认为她的女儿与偏见有任何关系。 费根森律师说：这只是一个好处，一个可以争论的好处。 法官说：我明白你的意思，政府是否给予了一些激励。 费根森律师说：正确的。他们看护了她。他们带她去了动物园，法官大人。就是 这样。 施洛夫律师说：他们让人觉得她需要某种 FBI 的保护和 FBI 的照看。这是第一 点。没有关联。而且我读过 3500材料，表明女儿的机票不是由政府支付的，所 以我不确定我要揭示什么偏见。所以我不认为偏见是他们在直接询问中提到这个 的原因，而且在我反对后他们还继续提问。 法官说：你打算问她的航班和住宿问题吗？ 施洛夫律师说：我本来没有打算问，特别是关于她女儿的。我不会触及她 的女儿。但现在他们打开了这个话题，我不得不考虑。但我肯定会——尤其是因 为我读过 3500材料。如果我读错了，有人纠正我，但他们没有支付她女儿的机 票，所以我为什么要提这个。 费根森律师说：你确实读错了，但我们会继续，法官大人。我们会开始。 法官说：好的。 （在公开法庭上） 费根森律师说： 问：李女士，我想回到并简要谈谈你的个人背景。 你在哪个国家长大？ 答：中国。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 43 / 87页 问：你在中国住了多久？ 答：大约 20 年。 问：之后你搬到了哪里？ 答：澳大利亚。 问：你为什么搬到澳大利亚？ 答：我在澳大利亚开始上大学。 问：你在大学学的是什么？ 答：会计。 问：你获得了什么学位吗？ 答：会计硕士。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，她说的是会计硕士吗？ 法官说：所以你需要提高音量，真的要提高你的声音。继续。回答是会计硕士。 施洛夫律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 问：李女士，在你获得会计硕士学位后，你从事了什么工作？ 答：会计师。 问：除了为郭文贵工作，你还有—— 施洛夫律师说：反对。她没有作证说她为郭文贵工作。 法官说：她确实说过她为郭文贵工作。你可以继续。 问：除了为郭文贵工作之外，自从获得学位后，你一直从事会计工作吗？ 答：是的。 问：自从搬到澳大利亚后，你一直住在那里吗？ 答：是的。 问：李女士，当你住在中国时，你关注政治吗？ 答：没有。 问：你参与政治活动吗？ 答：没有。 问：后来你对政治产生兴趣了吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 44 / 87页 答：是的。 问：请解释一下你第一次对政治产生兴趣是怎么回事？ 答：在 2017年，我在中国的朋友让我查一些关于学校抗议的真实信息，那个学校为什么 孩子会死，但学校试图掩盖。家长想知道真相，所以我们去中国抗议，但他们无法得到真 实信息。所以他们让我从外界找一些信息，然后我上了油管。 施洛夫律师说：反对。我要求删除。这全是传闻。 法官说：反对无效。我需要你提高音量，真的对着麦克风说话，以便我们能听到 你。 答：所以我上了油管，试图找到一些关于中国这起事件的信息。然后我看到了 VOA（美 国之音）中国频道关于地震的纪录片。VOA 有一部关于 2008 年中国地震的纪录片。 在那段时间，广告插播了，他们要采访郭文贵，所以会有爆炸性的爆料信息，所以 我开始观看 VOA。 问：在那段广告播出前，你听说过郭文贵吗？ 答：没有。 问：你看了那段广告后，有看了采访吗？ 答：是的。 问：在那次 VOA采访中，大致上发生了什么？ 答：采访进行了大约一小时后被切断了。 问：郭文贵说了什么？ 答：他说那是因为中共对 VOA 的压力，所以 VOA切断了采访。 问：这次采访被切断对你对郭文贵的印象有什么影响吗？ 答：我觉得他说的都是真的，所以中共害怕他说的话，试图让他闭嘴。 问：看完那次采访后，你开始做什么吗？ 答：我开始关注他的推特和油管账号。 问：李女士，那次采访是什么时候？ 答：2017年。 问：你说你开始关注他的推特和油管账号，他在线上发布的频率如何？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 45 / 87页 答：每天。 问：你多频繁地关注他的发布？ 答：每天。 问：你多频繁地观看他的视频？ 答：每天。 问：这些视频有多长？ 答：大约 30分钟到一小时。 问：你会看部分还是全部？ 答：全部。 问：李女士，你对郭文贵财富的印象是什么？ 答：他是中国的亿万富翁。 问：你为什么认为他是中国的亿万富翁？ 答：他在富豪榜上，排名第 74位。 问：什么是富豪榜？ 答：是中国的富豪榜。 问：李女士，你在郭文贵的直播中看到过什么吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，引导性问题。 问：我问的是，你在郭文贵的直播中看到过什么，李女士？ 答：他曝光了所有关于中国高层官员的腐败信息。 问：他的直播环境是什么样的？ 答：通常是在他在雪莉荷兰公寓 18楼的公寓里。 问：李女士，你有没有直接与郭文贵联系过？ 答：有。 问：大约是什么时候？ 答：大约在 2018 年。 问：是什么事情让你直接与郭文贵联系上？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 46 / 87页 答：2018 年他的生日，我做了一个生日蛋糕并送给了墨尔本支持者团体的领导者。所以 我送给了他。然后他把蛋糕的照片发给了郭文贵，然后我被加进了一个Whatsapp 群。 问：你说你为谁的生日做了生日蛋糕？ 答：为郭文贵的生日。 问：你是把蛋糕送给郭文贵还是别人？ 答：送给当时墨尔本团体的领导者。 问：你把生日蛋糕送给郭文贵的那位领导者后，发生了什么？ 答：他把蛋糕的照片发给了郭文贵。然后我被加进了一个Whatsapp 群。 问：这个Whatsapp 群里有谁？ 答：所有他的支持者。 问：大约有多少支持者？ 答：大约 20个。 问：郭文贵在群里吗？ 答：是的。 问：这个群里的支持者是农场的领导者吗？ 答：当时还没有农场。 问：提醒我们一下这是哪一年？ 答：2018 年。 问：这个Whatsapp 群里讨论了什么内容？ 答：全是关于他的直播和中国发生的事情。 问：当时有任何商业投资吗？ 答：没有。 问：在那个时候，李女士，你有与郭文贵进行一对一的聊天吗？ 答：我们有直接消息。他有时给我发一些翻译任务，我帮他翻译。 问：你主要翻译什么内容？ 答：主要是法律文件。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 47 / 87页 问：李女士，什么是法治基金？ 答：法治基金是郭文贵和史蒂夫班农在 2018 年 11 月 20 日创立的。 法官说：提高你的声音。 问：那法治社会呢？ 答：是一样的，也是由郭文贵和史蒂夫班农在同一天创立的。 问：你参与了这两个实体的工作吗？ 答：我被任命为法治基金的董事。 问：你什么时候成为法治基金的董事？ 答：2019 年初。 问：谁要求你担任董事？ 答：郭文贵。 问：他对你说了什么？ 答：他说他想让我成为法治基金的董事。 问：你的反应是什么？ 答：我觉得这是我的荣幸，所以我接受了。 问：李女士—— 施洛夫律师说：她说的是我的荣幸吗？ 答：荣幸，当时我觉得被郭文贵选中是我的荣幸，所以是的。 问：谢谢你，李女士。我们需要你继续提高音量，请。 问：李女士，谁决定了法治基金的董事会成员？ 答：郭文贵。 问：你怎么知道的？ 答：因为是他任命的我。 问：郭文贵说过关于法治基金的资金来源什么吗？ 答：他是最大的捐赠者。 问：他有说过他会捐多少钱吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 48 / 87页 答：他说他会捐一亿，如果我们捐一美元，他会再匹配捐两美元，所以三分之二的钱将是 他的钱。 问：他大约是什么时候说这些的？ 答：2019 年 3 月。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能展示一下作为政府证物的 VI-191 吗？我们可以公开这个。 问：李女士，这是谁的油管页面？ 答：这是郭文贵的油管频道。 问：在这次直播中，郭文贵说了什么关于法治捐款的事？ 答：他说他要捐一亿。如果我们捐一美元，他会匹配再捐两美元，所以三分之二的钱将是 他的钱。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以撤下这个。 问：李女士，当时你相信郭文贵会向法治基金捐赠一亿美元吗？ 答：是的。 问：作为董事，你有审查过法治基金的财务状况吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，法官大人。她担任董事的时间段没有在证据中提 到。 法官说：她担任董事是证据中的内容，但你可以说明你担任董事的时间 段。 问：你担任法治基金董事的时间段是什么时候？ 答：从开始到大约 2023 年 7月。 问：李女士，当你是法治基金的董事时，你有审查过法治基金的财务状况吗？ 答：没有。 问：你有没有收到过关于捐款人和捐款金额的信息？ 答：没有。 问：有没有某个时候你被要求找出募捐的金额？ 答：有。 问：你被要求做什么？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 49 / 87页 答：有一天郭文贵让我安排新中国联邦成立一周年纪念活动。他想知道在那段时间里我们 为法治基金和法治社会筹集了多少资金。 问：郭文贵问你募捐金额后，你做了什么？ 答：我发消息让法治基金的律师叫丹·波达斯基询问。 问：你问丹·波达斯基关于募捐的事后，发生了什么？ 答：他给了我一些数据。 问：你拿到这些数据后做了什么？ 答：我把它们发给了郭文贵。 问：募捐总额是多少？那些数据是什么？ 答：总额大约是 70万。 问：你传达了 70万的信息后，郭文贵的反应是什么？ 答：他说钱不多。 问：李女士，有什么与法治基金相关的聊天群吗？ 答：有一个Whatsapp 群，里面有法治基金和法治社会的董事和郭文贵。 费根森律师说：法官大人，翻译员的麦克风可能在证人附近，这可能是回 音的来源。非常感谢，法官大人。 问：李女士，法治基金的聊天群里有哪些董事？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，没有关于法治基金聊天群的证词。 法官说：反对有效。 问：我会重新提问，法官大人。 问：李女士，有什么与法治基金相关的聊天群吗？ 答：有一个Whatsapp聊天群，里面有法治基金和法治社会的董事和郭文贵。 问：那个聊天群里有哪些董事？ 答：当时有魏丽红，我，郭晓峰和郭文贵，还有所有支持者，法治基金的工作人员和支持 者，所以那是一个支持者群。 问：在你担任董事期间，谁在法治基金聊天群里发指示？ 答：郭文贵。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 50 / 87页 问：大致上，郭文贵对法治基金的董事发了什么指示？ 答：我们需要讨论什么问题。 问：郭文贵在聊天群里说了什么关于抗议的事？ 答：他说，大约在 2020 年 8，9 月，法治基金支持抗议开始—— 法官说：你需要提高音量。 问：李女士，我们可以回到这个问题。你熟悉 G News吗？ 答：是的。 问：什么是 G News？ 答：G News是一个平台，我们在上面发布新闻文章。 问：G News大约是什么时候创建的？ 答：大约在 2019 年。 问：谁创建了 G News？ 答：郭文贵。 问：谁为 G News提供内容？ 答：支持者有权利发布文章，所以我们会选择那些写作技能好的支持者，给他们发布文章 的权限。 问：你为 G News做过贡献吗？ 答：是的。 问：你做了什么？ 答：我会翻译一些文章并发布在上面。 问：最终谁控制了 G News？ 答：郭文贵。 问：郭文贵为 G News筹集过资金吗？ 答：没有。 问：李女士，什么是郭媒体？ 答：郭媒体是一个社交媒体平台，可以进行直播、视频和发布。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 51 / 87页 问：郭媒体大约是什么时候开始运作的？ 答：大约在 2019 年。 问：郭文贵为郭媒体筹集过资金吗？ 答：没有。 问：李女士，郭文贵为第一个什么商业项目筹集资金？ 答：GTV。 问：我们稍后会讨论 GTV，可以吗？ 答：好的。 问：李女士，在郭文贵开始提供商业投资时，你已经关注他多久了？ 答：三年。 问：在这三年后，你对郭文贵的信任程度如何？ 答：百分之百，绝对信任。 问：请解释一下你为什么信任他？ 答：因为在这三年里，他在直播中所说的话我都觉得是真的。 问：他说的那些话之后发生了什么？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，哪些话？ 法官说：如果你能更具体一些。 问：李女士，他在这三年里的直播中谈到了哪些事情？ 答：揭露中共的腐败以及中共如何渗透西方国家。 问：你认为这些事情是真的，李女士？ 答：是的。 问：你仍然认为中共是腐败的吗？ 答：是的。 问：李女士，当你最初在这三年里关注郭文贵时，你认为你加入了什么样的运动？ 施洛夫律师说：已问过并回答过。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：民主运动。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 52 / 87页 问：在 GTV之前的三年里，商业投资是如何参与到这个民主运动中的？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：G News。 问：在 GTV之前有投资吗？ 答：没有。 问：李女士，你如何称呼郭文贵？ 答：七哥。 问：你为什么叫他七哥？ 答：他让我们叫他七哥，因为他家里排行老七。 （续在下一页） 法官说：好的。我想提醒你提高音量。有时候我们能听清你说的话，但接 着你的声音就变低了。所以请集中注意力，让我们能听到你。 费根森律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 费根森律师说： 问：你刚才说他叫你木兰妹妹。你为什么认为他叫你木兰妹妹？ 答：因为他说所有他的追随者，我们都是兄弟姐妹，我们像一个大家庭。 问：当你是他的追随者时，郭文贵感觉像家人吗？ 答：是的。 问：当你是他的追随者时，如果你需要在做郭文贵需要的事情和你家人需要的事情之间做 选择，你会怎么做？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。 法官说：反对有效。 问：李女士，为什么郭文贵感觉像家人？ 施洛夫律师说：我认为这个问题已经问过并回答过多次了。 费根森律师说：没有，法官大人。 法官说：确实没有。你可以回答。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 53 / 87页 问：李女士，为什么郭文贵感觉像家人？ 答：因为我们互称兄弟姐妹，我们关心彼此并一起工作。 问：说到投资。当你是他的支持者时，你有多关注投资合同的内容？ 答：没有，我只是签需要签的地方。我没有读整个合同。 问：你为什么只签字？ 答：因为我们信任他。 问：你提到了 GTV。 答：是的。 问：GTV是郭文贵唯一推广的投资吗？ 答：不是。 问：你能列出郭文贵推广的投资项目吗？ 答：有 GTV；之后是农场贷款计划；然后是 GClub卡计划、新 GTV和新平台、A15 和 A10。还有加密货币投资，比如 G币、G美元、H币、H美元，还有一个数字银行。 问：好的，李女士。你列出了几个投资项目。这些投资之间的主要区别是什么？ 答：一个是股份，另一个是加密货币，还有一个是数字银行。 问：李女士，请保持你的声音大一点。 答：好的。 问：谢谢。 首先说一下股份投资，哪些是股份投资？ 答：GTV私募、农场贷款计划、GClub卡计划、新 GTV、新平台、A15、A10。 问：哪些是加密货币？ 答：G币、G美元、H币、H美元。 问：你说过数字银行。郭文贵说这个数字银行项目的目的是？ 答：数字银行是投资购买一个叫做商业银行的数字银行。这项投资还包括获得欧洲的另一 家银行和一个博彩执照。但后来博彩执照被取消了。 问：李女士，关于所有的投资，郭文贵做过什么承诺吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 54 / 87页 答：他保证所有投资不会有损失。如果有损失，他会偿还我们所有损失。他还承诺不会使 用所有支持者的投资资金。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们能展示一下作为政府证物的 VI-184 吗？请将其静音，并播放一部分给证人看。 洛夫特斯女士，也许我们可以快速滚动到结束部分。 问：好的。洛夫特斯女士，这是什么视频？ 施洛夫律师说：洛夫特斯女士？ 问：对不起。李女士，这是什么视频？ 答：这是郭文贵的直播。 问：你在作证前看过这个视频吗？ 答：是的。 问：它与投资有关吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物 VI-184。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我可以对证人进行一个预审质询吗？ 法官说：可以。 预审质询 施洛夫律师说： 问：下午好，李女士。 答：下午好。 问：你在检察官办公室观看过这个视频吗？ 答：是的。 问：除了在他办公室观看外，你之前看过这个视频吗？ 答：在他做这个直播时看过。 问：我听不清你说的。 答：在他做这个直播时看过。 施洛夫律师说：我没有异议，法官大人。 法官说：证据被接纳。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 55 / 87页 （政府证物 VI-184 被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：好的。洛夫特斯女士，我们可以——对不起，洛夫特斯女士，也 许我们可以准备一下。但是此时，法官大人，政府将提出双方的协议。这标记为 政府证物协议-10。 法官大人，我想知道是否有异议。 施洛夫律师说：这是协议，法官大人。我有些困惑，但没有。这是双方的 协议。 法官说：所以它被接纳。 （政府证物 Stip-10 被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 我现在来宣读协议。它说这是关于 GX VI 证物翻译的协议。 协议中写道：双方特此约定，在下表中，A栏所列的证物包含外语音频或文本。而在下表 中，B栏所列的证物是 A栏所列证物中音频或文本的真实准确的翻译。 此时，政府将提交政府证物 184-T。 法官大人，政府提交政府证物 184-T。 法官说：接纳。 （政府证物 184-T 被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以播放视频，请带音频播放整个视频。 （播放视频） 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以展示政府证物 VI-184-T。请 放大。谢谢。 费根森律师说： 问：李女士，我来读一下这个： “关于这些战友们说的事情，我再重申一遍。你们可以借用项目、投资、购买 H币 或购买任何卡。如果你们损失一分钱，我会负责。我再重申一遍。对于你们参与的任何 G系列项目，也有许多其他投资者参与。无论什么原因，如果你们损失一分钱，七哥会 负责。我再重申一遍，我会负责。”
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 56 / 87页 李女士—— 法官说：费根森律师，如果你能把麦克风稍微调低一些，我认为它指向天 花板的方式引起了回音。 费根森律师说：明白了，法官大人。谢谢。 问：李女士，提到的“借用项目”，你理解这是什么？ 答：农场贷款计划。 问：“购买任何卡”，你理解这指的是什么？ 答：GClub卡计划。 问：李女士，这是郭文贵唯一一次做出这种承诺吗？ 答：不是，三年间他多次这么说。 问：在这三年里，他多频繁地说这些话？ 答：关于投资的承诺。 问：他多频繁地做出这些承诺？ 答：一直。 问：李女士，你刚才说郭文贵在中国的富豪榜上，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在你参与这些投资项目时，你认为郭文贵能偿还任何投资者的损失吗？ 答：是的。 问：你认为郭文贵能支付任何费用吗？ 答：是的。 问：你说过你信任他，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：郭文贵说过他为什么要做这些投资项目吗？ 答：他说他想让他的支持者像他一样富有，因为中共害怕他的支持者变得富有。 问：你相信他吗？ 答：是的。 问：谁可以参与这些投资项目？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 57 / 87页 答：只有他的支持者。 问：李女士，郭文贵说过什么关于使用投资者的钱为自己用？ 答：没有，他说这是不可能的。他从不为自己使用投资者的钱。 问：他说这句话对你当时对投资的看法有什么影响？ 答：所以我们所有的投资资金都是安全的，没有被使用。 问：这对你的信任程度有什么影响？ 答：百分之百。 问：李女士，有没有某个时候郭文贵通过邮件寄送物品给你？ 答：有。 费根森律师说：法官大人，我可以靠近吗？ 法官说：可以。 问：李女士，我刚才递给你的是标记为政府证物 37的物品。政府证物 37是什么？ 答：这是郭文贵的太阳镜。 问：你怎么知道的？ 答：因为他在直播中戴着这些。 问：这些太阳镜是怎么到达法庭的？ 答：当他直播时，戴着这些太阳镜。我说，这看起来很酷。非常好。 他说，如果你喜欢，我可以给你。 然后他寄给了我。今天我把它带来了这里。 问：这些是他寄给你的太阳镜吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物 37。 法官说：没有异议？ 施洛夫律师说：没有，法官大人。 法官说：证物接纳。 （政府证物 37被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：法官大人，请允许向陪审团展示政府证物 37。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 58 / 87页 法官说：可以。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人—— 费根森律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 法官说：有请求吗？ 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，证据袋没有打开，我—— 费根森律师说：我要打开它。 施洛夫律师说：实际上，我还没有看到里面。所以在他这样做之前—— 费根森律师说： 问：李女士，我们刚才提到过 GTV。什么是 GTV？ 答：GTV是郭文贵创建的平台。其目的是揭示真相，将中国的真实新闻传递到西方国 家，并将西方国家的真实新闻传递到中国。 问：它现在还存在吗？ 答：没有。 问：现在，GTV实际上有一个网站吗？ 答：有。 问：网站上有什么？ 答：一旦你注册并登录，你就可以看到直播视频和帖子。 问：视频上有观看人数吗？ 答：有。 问：郭文贵在 GTV上的一些视频总共有多少观看次数？ 答：可以达到数百万。 问：一般来说，这些数字与你看过的郭文贵在油管上的视频观看次数相比如何？ 答：有时是 100多倍。 问：当你是支持者时，你认为 GTV的观看数字准确吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，法官大人。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：是的。 问：为什么？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 59 / 87页 答：因为郭文贵说他全球的追随者大约有二十亿。 问：二十亿？ 答：是的。 问：李女士，今天坐在这里，你认为 GTV的观看人数准确吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，相关性。 法官说：你可以回答。反对无效。 问：今天坐在这里，你认为 GTV的观看人数准确吗？ 答：不准确。 问：为什么？ 答：因为数字太高了。只有他的频道这么高，其他频道的观看人数很低。 问：李女士，你什么时候第一次听说 GTV？ 答：大约是在 2020 年初。 问：你是怎么听说的？ 答：在郭文贵的直播中。 问：在他的直播中，郭文贵说 GTV是什么？ 答：GTV是一个媒体平台，会像油管、推特这样的社交媒体平台。 问：郭文贵对 GTV 试图将其信息传播到哪些地方有什么说法吗？ 答：传播到中国大陆。 问：传播到中国大陆有什么重要性？ 答：因为中国政府有防火长城，他们封锁信息，所以那里的审查非常严格。他们无法在中 国大陆获得很多信息。 问：郭文贵说过他将如何突破中国的严格审查吗？ 答：他说有一些以色列技术可以帮助 GTV突破防火墙。 问：他解释过以色列的技术是什么吗？ 答：没有。 问：当时你相信他吗？ 答：我相信。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 60 / 87页 问：李女士，郭文贵说过 GTV作为投资的价值吗？ 答：当时是 200亿。 问：他又是如何评价 GTV 一年后的价值的呢？？ 答：600亿——对不起，是 60亿。 问：关于投资回报，郭文贵说了什么？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，法官大人。政府没有说明所指的是哪项投资。 费根森律师说：我说的是 GTV，法官大人。 法官说：关于 GTV。 费根森律师说： 问：关于 GTV的投资回报，郭文贵说了什么？ 答：可以是 100倍。 问：郭文贵说过投资 GTV的风险吗？ 答：没有风险，因为他全都保证了。 问：你刚才说过——撤回。 问：参与 GTV 投资有什么要求吗？ 答：要求是需要向法治基金捐款。 问：你在这个过程中扮演了什么角色？ 答：我是一个联系人之一。如果他的追随者/支持者想加入这个投资，可以联系我、Sara 或 Lude。 问：李女士，请大声对着麦克风说。 答：好的。 问：好的。你说你是联系人之一？ 答：是的。 问：人们联系你时会说什么？他们会给你什么？ 答：他们会说他们想投资 GTV，并给我他们捐款的收据。我会检查这些，是的。 问：你检查完他们是否是捐款者后，你又会做什么？ 答：我会把郭文贵的WhatsApp号码发给他们，这样他们可以联系郭文贵。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 61 / 87页 问：李女士，在这个过程中，你会问潜在投资者关于他们投资经验的问题吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。什么是投资经验？ 法官说：你可以回答。 答：我不问。 问：你会问这些投资者关于他们是否能承受投资损失的问题吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：我不问。所以我的角色只是检查他们是否是捐赠者，是否是真正的追随者。 问：然后你说你给他们郭文贵的号码。那是他的真实号码吗？ 答：是的，他的真实WhatsApp号码。 问：李女士，郭文贵说过关于机构或基金投资者吗？ 答：是的，GTV也有机构投资者。 问：根据你的参与，你是否有任何独立的知识来判断这是否属实？ 答：我不知道。但那时我们相信。 问：GTV的投资机会是一直开放的吗，还是仅限于一段时间？ 答：仅限于一段时间。 问：郭文贵对此说了什么？ 答：他说投资机会将在 5 月底结束。 问：李女士，当郭文贵说这些话时，你相信他吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。问过并回答过。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：是的，我完全相信。 问：你相信他的原因是什么？ 答：因为我已经跟随郭文贵三年了，所以我信任他的一切。 问：你自己投资了 GTV吗？ 答：是的。 问：你以前进行过私募投资吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 62 / 87页 答：没有。 问：在决定投资时，郭文贵所说的风险对你来说重要吗？ 答：是的。 问：郭文贵关于亲自担保任何损失的说法对你投资决策有重要影响吗？ 答：是的。 问：如果你知道郭文贵关于风险的说法是假的，你会投资吗？ 答：不会。 问：如果你知道郭文贵不会亲自担保任何损失，你会投资吗？ 答：不会。 问：李女士，当你投资 GTV时，你是以个人名义还是以实体名义投资的？ 答：都有。 问：我们分别讨论一下。 问：以个人名义投资时，投资金额是多少？ 答：大约 12万。 问：那笔钱是谁的？ 答：是其他追随者的钱。 问：你为什么以个人名义代表其他人投资？ 答：因为那时最低投资要求是 10万。如果我们不能单独投资那么多钱，就几位支持者可 以一起投资。 问：你以你的名义将 12万美元投去了哪里？ 答：Saraca。 问：你对Saraca的理解是什么？ 答：我不知道。我只是按照指示做。 问：你从哪里得到这些指示？ 答：从郭文贵的信息中。 问：什么样的信息？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 63 / 87页 答：关于如何投资 GTV的WhatsApp消息或文件。 问：谈到以实体名义投资，李女士，你是用什么实体进行投资的？ 答：我的超级基金。 问：什么是超级基金？ 答：超级基金是一种养老金——养老金基金，是退休金。 问：那是谁的退休金？ 答：是我的。 问：你为什么用退休账户投资 GTV？ 答：因为那时我认为这个投资风险低，时间长、回报好，所以对退休来说是个很好的支 持。 问：你用你的退休账户投资了多少钱？ 答：3万。 问：你把钱寄到哪里？ 答：Saraca。 问：你从这些投资中拿回钱了吗？ 答：是的，我从SEC拿回了我个人名义的钱。 问：你从SEC拿回的是 100%还是少于 100%？ 答：大约 92%。 问：你拿回这些钱后做了什么？ 答：我把钱还给了其他支持者。 问：那 3万的退休金，你拿回了吗？ 答：我还没有收到退款。 问：李女士，什么是回投规则？ 答：回投规则是，一旦你从SEC收到退款，在 45天内你应该将这笔钱再投到投资项目 中，然后你可以获得 5%的喜币。 法官说：回投规则来自哪里？ 证人说：来自郭文贵。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 64 / 87页 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我们可以到旁边讨论一下吗？ 法官说：可以。 施洛夫律师说：谢谢。 （边栏会议讨论） 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我没有反对，但没有所谓的回投人规则。 费根森律师说：是再投资。 施洛夫律师说：我还没说完，但请随意。 费根森律师说：对不起，我道歉。 施洛夫律师说：所以，这是检方和证人称之为回投规则的术语。郭文贵并没有使 用回投规则这个词。政府的翻译是错误的。但我只是指出这一点。 法官说：那我们就按这个说法。你是从哪里得到这个术语的？ 费根森律师说：证人和其他受害者。 法官说：所以你说是他们向你介绍这个术语的？ 费根森律师说：正确。 法官说：好的。 施洛夫律师说：政府提出的问题是，什么是回投规则，仿佛这是一条规则。这假 设存在一条规则。 没有任何证词表明有任何事情使他们得出这是回投规则的结论。 所以这等同于说，你知道有 PPM，因为有私募备忘录，这是既定事实。回投规则是他们 创造的术语。没有迹象表明证人首先创造了这个术语，我也无法从 3500材料中得知。所 以我对此有异议。 法官说：好的。那么在你继续之前，费根森律师刚才说这个证人和其他人首先向 政府提出了这个术语。 费根森律师说：这是正确的。 施洛夫律师说：但在记录中没有证据表明这一点。他已经采用了这个说法。 法官说：好吧，他有证人——证人声称这个术语和概念存在。所以他们可以对此 作证，无论是否在 3500材料中。 施洛夫律师说：好的。我认为这是我的异议。 法官说：反对无效。 施洛夫律师说：好的，没问题。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 65 / 87页 我确实有一个持续的反对，法官，但我已经停止提出了。但我确实认为政府至少问了 50 次信任的依据是什么。每次他们都反复询问。所以如果他们想让证人回来，而我们都必须 在 9点钟到庭，我认为这种重复性应该记录在案。 法官说：好的。我想听听费根森律师对此问题的看法。 费根森律师说：我在询问不同的话题和不同的方案。 施洛夫律师说：他在开始时询问了所有的计划，对吗？他把所有的都列出来，然 后在展示视频时再次列出了他称自己为七哥的原因，这样做是为了建立家庭。然 后他询问了所有投资的清单，然后他又做了一遍。 看，有记录，所以记录会说明一切。 法官说：是的。当你有一系列投资时，询问为什么进行投资以及他们是否信任郭 文贵的陈述是合适的。没有规则说你问过一般情况后就不能问具体投资。 施洛夫律师说：但他至少已经两次问及个人投资的问题了。 法官说：也许是因为你的当事人一遍又一遍地做出这些陈述。 施洛夫律师说：有可能。 但如果政府想区分他在多年内做出的这些陈述，这没问题。 但他不是这样做的。他是按项目一个个地询问，并且反复询问。这是我持续的反对意见。 我还想指出，在展示视频时，这位证人并没有——她在美国之音直播方面没有任何提及。 她没有一次提到美国之音。美国之音是被插入的—— 费根森律师说：她说了 VOA，我也说了 VOA。就这样。 施洛夫律师说：好的。 费根森律师说：我没有说美国之音。 法官说：我听到了 VOA。那么你是质疑“VOA”代表美国之音吗？ 施洛夫律师说：不。我质疑的是证人首先说了这个，而不是政府在他们的问题中 说的。 但无论如何，记录在案。我对政府律师在下一个问题中包括证人没有作证过的事实提出了 持续的反对。这些是我的反对意见，法官。 法官说：好吧，如果他包括了尚未在记录中的事实，反对是适当的。 施洛夫律师说：好的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 66 / 87页 最后，关于富豪榜。他至少问了三次富豪榜的问题。三次他问了这个富豪榜。他一遍又一 遍地问富豪榜让她得出什么结论。我认为已经基本确定她认为他很富有是因为富豪榜。 但再次强调，这些是我提出的“问过并回答过”的反对意见；我提出这些异议是因为，他们 希望让他们的证人回到澳大利亚。 法官说：施洛夫律师，你似乎在抱怨检方把你的当事人描绘成富有的人。他出现 在许多视频中，环境奢华。 施洛夫律师说：我不是在抱怨他们把他描绘成富有的人。这是既定的事实。我乐 意让他们这样做。 我只是抱怨他们一遍又一遍地以累积的方式这样做，从而暗示陪审团财富有问题。我们可 能不喜欢财富。这不是我生活中的追求；你知道，我大部分时间是为穷人辩护的律师。但 坦白说，这有点过头了。 并且每次政府都将奢华和证人联系在一起，以此来展示——但显然法庭已经驳回了我的反 对。我非常尊重并理解这一点。我只是希望将其记录在案，仅此而已。 法官说：听起来你在试图争辩你的当事人的奢华生活被过度描绘了。 施洛夫律师说：是的，我是。这完全正确。谢谢。这完全正确。以一种不公平、 累积的方式，以一种此时过于偏见的方式进行。即使是富人也应得到良好的辩 护，这就是我提出反对的原因。我认为这已经累积得过头了。 法官说：我同意他应得到辩护。但正是郭文贵把自己放在兰博基尼和飞机旁，并 在带有镀金物品的客厅里。 施洛夫律师说：我同意。这不是我的事。我理解。但当它一次又一次地放在同一 个证人面前时，这也会造成过度的偏见。他问了三次富豪榜。这够了吗？我们还 需要再听五次富豪榜的事吗？ 法官说：好了，关于富豪榜的话题够了。 费根森律师说：法官大人，我已经问完富豪榜的问题了。我想继续进行审问，仅 此而已。 法官说：好的。 （在公开法庭上）
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 67 / 87页 法官说：你可以继续。 费根森律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 费根森律师说： 问：李女士，谁提出了再投资规则？ 答：郭文贵。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请展示一下标记为政府证物 VK-5 的文件。 问：李女士，这是什么文件？ 答：GTV私募合同。 问：你在投资过程中收到过这个文件吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物 VK-5。 施洛夫律师说：没有异议，法官大人。 法官说：接纳。 （政府证物 VK-5 被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：请展示。 问：李女士，你从谁哪里收到这个文件的？ 答：从郭文贵那里。 问：李女士，你看到顶部写着：“GTV，一切才刚刚开始”了吗？ 答：是的。 问：中间的位置，日期是什么时候？ 答：2020 年 4 月 20 日。 费根森律师说：好的。洛夫特斯女士，我们可以移到第 10页。可以放大“4. 款项 用途”部分吗？谢谢。 问：李女士，我来读一下“款项用途”下的文字。上面写道：GTV 媒体计划使用私募所得款 项来扩展和加强业务。预期的款项用途如下：收购公司以加强和发展 GTV，约 70%；升 级 GTV技术和安全，约 10%；市场营销，约 8%；营运资金，约 7%；其他，约 5%。李 女士，这个表中有没有关于对冲基金投资的内容？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 68 / 87页 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，政府是在问她现在对这个表的解读，还是在试图引出 她是否在今天之前曾经审阅过这个表？ 费根森律师说：我是在问她一个证据中的文件，是否列有对冲基金的内容。 法官说：好的。你就回答文件中是否列有对冲基金。 证人说：没有。 问：有没有关于投资海曼资本的内容？ 答：没有。 问：李女士，当你投资 GTV时，你仔细阅读过这些文件吗？ 答：没有，我没有阅读。我只是在需要签名的地方签了名。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以撤下这个文件。 问：你为什么没有仔细阅读这些文件？ 答：因为我百分之百信任郭文贵。 问：这是 GTV的文件。那么其他合同和文件呢？ 答：一样的。我只是在需要签名的地方签了名。 问：你在做投资决策时依据是什么？ 答：依据郭文贵在他的直播中说的话。 问：在他的直播中，郭文贵有没有说过你的 GTV 投资资金会用于投资对冲基金？ 答：没有。 问：如果你知道你的钱会被送去对冲基金，你会投资吗？ 答：不会。 问：郭文贵在直播中有没有讨论过他自己投资对冲基金的事？ 答：有。 问：他怎么说的？ 答：他说 Saraca投资了。 问：投资了什么？ 答：但不是 GTV。 问：对不起，李女士？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 69 / 87页 答：Saraca投资了，但不是 GTV。 问：他说 Saraca投资了什么？ 答：一亿。 施洛夫律师说：反对。不相关，我要求删除。 法官说：反对无效。回答有效。 问：他说他把那一亿投资到哪里了？ 答：在直播中。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请展示一下标记为政府证物 VI-158 的视频。如果 可以，请将其静音，并播放一部分。可以跳到结尾部分。 问：好的。李女士，这是什么视频？ 答：这是郭文贵的直播。 问：你当时看过这个直播吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物 VI-158。 施洛夫律师说：我可以问一下吗，法官？ 法官说：可以。 预审质询 由辩方律师施洛夫律师提问： 问：李女士，这是什么年份的直播？ 答：2020 年。 问：李女士，你认为这个直播是在 2020 年吗？ 费根森律师说：对不起，法官大人。这还不是交叉质询。 施洛夫律师说：我听不清她说什么。 法官说：她的回答是 2020 年。 施洛夫律师问：你作证说你在 2020 年看过这个，还是在与政府准备时看过，还是两者都 看过？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 70 / 87页 法官说：你是说你在 2020 年看过这个吗？ 证人说：当时直播的时候，我看过。 施洛夫律师说：我没有异议。 法官说：接纳。 （政府证物 VI-158 被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以——实际上，法官大人，根据关于 GX VI 证物翻译的协议，标记为协议-10，政府还将提交翻译版本，这是政府证物 VI-158-T。 法官说：接纳。 （政府证物 VI-158-T 被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 好的。洛夫特斯女士，我们播放这个有声音的视频，然后我们会展示翻译。 （播放视频） 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请展示政府证物 VI-158-T 的翻译。请从顶部开 始，洛夫特斯女士。 检方律师费根森律师说： 问：李女士，您看第三行，日期，这个视频的日期是什么？ 答：2020 年 11 月 11 日。 费根森律师说：让我们滚动到文本部分，洛夫特斯女士。如果可以的话，请放 大。 问：我来读一下文本，李女士。 一开始，我的战友们想跟随凯尔·巴斯，凯尔·巴斯进行 200倍杠杆。很多战友说， 七哥，给我发了很多信息，七哥，我想投资钱。我想投资 200倍杠杆做空港币。 他们都给我写了授权书，但我全部拒绝了。大家记得这件事吧？ 美国媒体宣布拜登当选。港币。你知道做空港币损失了多少吗，兄弟姐妹们？所有 凯尔·巴斯的基金损失了 50％，损失了 50％。你们没有损失，战友们，Saraca， 你们没有投资，Saraca投资了。Saraca投资了一亿美元，现在损失了五千万。损 失了五千万。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 71 / 87页 前天，从基金收到通知，告诉大家你们账户余额的一半在市场上损失了，就是五千 万。兄弟姐妹们，如果你们说文贵当时没有良心，我会让我的战友们投资，那么今 天你们的钱一半就会损失。 我想问大家，有没有理由说 GTV的投资会减少一半？绝对没有。请你们拿走所有 东西。绝对不会。这是文贵对战友们的感情。你们在 GTV的投资永远不会损失一 半，因为你们投资的每一分钱都必须经过美国法律会计师的审计。 我不能用你们投资的钱今天买一顿日本餐，那样我会被直接逮捕。美国真的会逮捕 你。那么你们想，战友们投资的钱都会在战友们的公司里，GTV永远不会。但如 果你们今天听说因为拜登的虚假选举，你们的钱会损失一半，这对你们有多痛苦？ 文贵能坐在这里和你们吃日本餐吗？不可能的。兄弟姐妹们，这是文贵用事实衡量 的。 李女士，在顶部和第一段的底部，他说：他们都给我写了授权书，但我全部拒绝 了。大家记得这件事对吗？你记得这件事吗？ 答：我不记得。 问：你给他写过授权书吗？ 答：没有，我没有写过。 问：据你所知，有其他人写过吗？ 答：我不知道其他人。 问：李女士，稍微往下，在他说：你们没有使用战友们，Saraca，你们没有投资， Saraca投资了，Saraca投资了一亿美元，现在损失了五千万，损失了五千万。你理解这 句话是什么意思？ 答：这意味着我们的 GTV 投资没有投资到那个基金里，而是Saraca投资了。Saraca 是 他的钱，没有使用投资者的钱。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 72 / 87页 问：在下面一点，他说：我不能用你们投资的钱今天买一顿日本餐，那样我会被直接逮 捕。你理解这句话是什么意思？ 答：所以他知道他不能用投资的钱哪怕是买一顿日本餐，否则他会被逮捕。 问：你理解他为什么提到日本餐？ 答：当他做这个直播时，他正在吃日本餐。 问：李女士，你认为你的钱或任何 GTV的投资资金被用于投资凯尔·巴斯的对冲基金吗？ 答：没有。 问：为什么不？ 答：因为他说——他说我们所有的钱都没有投资在那里，只有 Saraca的钱。如果他用我 们的钱，他会被逮捕。 问：李女士，什么是农场？ 答：农场是郭文贵在 2020 年 4 月或 5 月左右建立的。 问：是—— 答：它是一个——它是全世界支持者的群体，所以每个——每个国家都有一个农场供他的 支持者使用。 问：你说农场自 2020 年以来一直在运作，通过你为郭文贵工作的时间？ 答：是的。 问：谁，如果有的话，告诉农场��做什么？ 答：郭文贵。 问：你怎么知道的？ 答：因为他告诉我的。 问：喜马拉雅农场联盟是什么？ 答：是所有农场的联合，我们称之为喜马拉雅联盟。 问：长岛哥是谁？ 答：他是喜马拉雅联盟的秘书。 施洛夫律师说：对不起，我听不清她说的话。 法官说：请说大声点。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 73 / 87页 问：如果你把它对准你，可能效果会更好。 答：他是喜马拉雅联盟的秘书。 问：长岛兄弟还有什么其他名字？ 答：长岛哥。 问：你知道他的真名吗？ 答：知道。 问：是什么？ 答：夏其东。 问：你能拼一下吗？ 答：X-I-A-Q-I-D-O-N-G。 问：铁血组是什么？ 答：铁血组是郭文贵在 2020 年 12 月左右创建的。这个团要求成员必须无私，意志坚 定，并保持判断力、公正，注重结果，超越个人利益。 问：铁血组的成员有哪些？ 答：最初有长岛哥、老班长。 问：你能拼一下吗？ 答：L-A-O-B-A-N-Z-H-A-N-G。还有英国大卫，日本草根兄弟草根小哥。我大约在 4 月被 加入。 问：哪一年的 4 月？ 答：2021 年 4 月。 问：郭文贵是成员吗？ 答：是的。 问：铁血组的名字是谁起的？ 答：郭文贵。 问：为什么名字里有“血”？ 答：铁意味着我们需要有像铁一样坚强的意志。血是我们像兄弟姐妹一样，共同生死。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 74 / 87页 问：郭文贵如何向农场传达指示？ 答：我们有一个群组。所以他会发一些信息、语音信息到群组里。有时我们还有会议，线 上会议。 问：你们多久与郭文贵开一次会？ 施洛夫律师说：对不起，是一般会议还是她在作证的铁血组会议？ 法官说：请详细说明。 费根森律师说：好的，法官大人。 问：我们先从这个开始：铁血组会议多久开一次？ 答：每当郭文贵需要时。 问：会议大约多久？ 答：可以是 30分钟到几个小时。 问：讨论哪些内容？ 答：关于喜马拉雅联盟的管理，一些投资问题，以及来自其他农场的一些问题。 问：有哪些投资问题？ 答：比如我们如何启动新项目，规则是什么，如何记录支持者的投资，并检查投资——支 持者的投资。 问：谁指示如何处理投资问题？ 答：郭文贵。 问：你怎么知道的？ 答：因为他给我指示。 问：李女士，什么是 N-F-S-C？ 答：N-F-S-C是新中国联邦，由郭文贵和史蒂夫班农于 2020 年 6 月 4 日成立。 问：农场与 N-F-S-C 之间有什么联系吗？ 答：所有农场都在新中国联邦之下。这是我们团体的正式名称，我们组织的正式名称。 问：GClub是农场或 N-F-S-C 的另一个名称吗？ 答：不是。 问：为什么不是？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 75 / 87页 答：GClub是 G系列业务之一。 问：李女士，什么是农场贷款计划？ 答：农场贷款计划大约在 2020 年 7月开始。那时 GTV私募已经结束。郭文贵说对 GTV 股票的需求仍然很高，解决方案是我们启动农场贷款计划。通过这个农场贷款计划，错过 私募的其他支持者仍然可以获得 GTV股票。 问：郭文贵说的这个农场贷款计划如何运作呢？ 答：支持者将钱发送到每个农场并签署贷款协议。然后农场将钱发送到郭文贵的公司并签 署协议，最终支持者将获得 GTV股票。 问：当你说“农场会将钱发送到郭文贵的公司”，你如何称呼那家公司？ 答：我们称它为总部公司。 问：什么是总部公司？ 答：那是郭文贵的公司。 问：谁起的这个名字？ 答：郭文贵。 问：李女士，你的农场叫什么名字？ 答：秘密翻译组。 问：秘密翻译组有公司吗？ 答：有。 问：在 2020 年夏天，你农场的公司叫什么名字？ 答：G Translators Pty. Ltd. 法官说：你需要对着麦克风说。大声说。 问：李女士，如果你能把它对准你的嘴，我认为这可以帮助减少反馈。 答：好的。 问：好的。G Translators Pty. Ltd.。秘密翻译组参与了农场贷款计划吗？ 答：是的。 问：你签署了与成员的贷款协议并收取了钱吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 76 / 87页 问：你从哪里得到贷款协议的？ 答：从郭文贵那里。 问：他是直接发送还是通过其他人发送？ 答：通过长岛兄弟长岛哥。 问：你与成员签署了贷款协议吗？ 答：是的。 问：你是自己签署的还是代表农场签署的？还是——撤回。你是代表农场签署的吗？ 答：是的。 问：李女士，据你了解，秘密翻译组实际上是向这些成员借钱吗？ 答：不是。 问：你们为什么要从成员那里收钱？ 答：我们收集资金然后发送到郭文贵的公司。 问：据你理解，这样做的目的是什么？ 答：为了获得 GTV股票。 问：在第一次农场贷款计划中，秘密翻译组大约从成员那里收集了多少钱？ 答：大约三百万。 问：大约多少成员？ 答：大约 14个成员。 问：你自己在这个农场贷款计划中发送了钱吗？ 答：没有。 问：为什么没有？ 答：因为我已经参与了 GTV私募，我已经有了 GTV股票。 问：秘密翻译组从成员那里收集了三百万美元后，你接下来做了什么？ 答：问郭文贵应该把这笔钱发到哪里，然后他给了我一个银行账户。 问：你是直接问郭文贵还是通过中间人？ 答：直接问。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 77 / 87页 问：他是怎么回应的？ 答：他给了我一个银行账户的详细信息。 问：银行账户的名称是什么？ 答：Medical Supply。 问：那个银行账户在哪个国家？ 答：在美国。 问：你实际上把钱发送到了美国的 Medical Supply账户吗？ 答：是的。 问：你发送了多少钱？ 答：大约两百万。 问：为什么你只发送了三百万中的两百万？ 答：因为郭文贵让我留下一百万支付一些费用。 问：我们一会儿回来说那一百万。 答：好的。 问：当你把两百万发送到 Medical Supply 时，秘密翻译组与 Medical Supply之间有贷款 协议吗？ 答：没有。 问：秘密翻译组与 Medical Supply之间有其他合同吗？ 答：没有。 问：那时你为什么放心把那两百万美元发送到 Medical Supply？ 答：因为我百分之百信任郭文贵。 问：你对 Medical Supply了解多少？ 答：不，我以为是他的公司之一。 问：你大约什么时候把两百万美元发送到 Medical Supply账户？ 答：2020 年 10 月。 问：你说那时没有合同，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 78 / 87页 答：没有。 施洛夫律师说：反对。问过并回答过。 法官说：反对无效。 费根森律师说：我会继续。 法官说：继续。 问：你有没有收到与 Medical Supply的贷款协议或合同？ 答：是——不，对不起。 问：没关系。让我问一下，你有没有收到与 Medical Supply的贷款协议或合同？ 答：没有，从未。 问：你有没有收到与另一家公司签订的协议？ 答：有。 问：大约什么时候你收到那个协议？ 答：大约一年后。 问：在你收到那个协议之前，关于秘密翻译组与哪家公司签订贷款协议有过什么讨论吗？ 答：有和长岛兄弟长岛哥讨论过谁签这个贷款协议。长岛哥说我们之前准备与 ACA签 订，但余建明拒绝签署，所以我们必须找到另一家公司签署。我们在等待指示签署另一家 公司。因为我问为什么这么久才拿到协议。 问：你说长岛哥提到 ACA。 答：对。 问：你对 ACA是什么了解？ 答：ACA是郭文贵的一家公司。 问：据你所知，在哪里？ 答：在阿布扎比。 问：你还有其他关于它的信息吗？ 答：没有。 问：你知道余建明在 ACA 的角色是什么吗？ 答：我不知道。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 79 / 87页 法官说：你是说阿布扎比？ 证人说：阿布扎比。 问：李女士，请尽量大声说话。 答：好的。 问：谢谢。你知道为什么与 ACA 的贷款协议需要余建明签字吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：李女士，你有没有收到秘密翻译组与 ACA 的贷款协议？ 答：没有。 问：你最终收到的贷款协议上的公司叫什么名字？ 答：Alfa Global Ventures。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请展示标记为政府证物 VI-20 的文件。 问：李女士，这是什么文件？ 答：这是秘密翻译组与总部公司 Alfa Global Ventures Limited的贷款协议。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物 VI-20。 法官说：没有异议？ 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，可以给我们一点时间吗？ 法官说：好的。 （律师进行商议） 施洛夫律师说：我们没有异议。 法官说：接纳。 （政府证物 VI-20 被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 如果可以，请展示这个文件，洛夫特斯女士。 费根森律师说： 问：李女士，你看到顶部中间写着“本票”了吗？ 答：看到了。 问：下面的本金金额是多少？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 80 / 87页 答：三百万。 问：三百万多一点对吗？ 答：对。 问：生效日期是什么时候？ 答：2020 年 10 月 8 日。 问：这是你收到这个贷款协议的日期吗？ 答：不，这是我把钱发送到 Medical Supply的日期。 问：你在 2020 年 10 月 8 日之后多久收到这个协议的？ 答：大约一年后。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以缩小视图。如果可以，请放 大底部三分之一左右的“现因此”部分。 问：在这份贷款协议中，借款人是谁？ 答：是 Alfa Global Ventures Limited，一家英属维尔京群岛公司。 问：你把钱发送到 Alfa Global Ventures Limited了吗？ 答：没有。 问：好的。李女士，现在我们关注一下利率部分—— 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，现在已经过了 2:45。我不知道我们今天要进行 多长时间。 法官说：我们今天到 3点。 问：实际上，在我们关注利率问题之前，对于 Alfa Global这个公司，他总部在哪？ 答：英属维京群岛 问：好的。现在我们关注一下利率部分，合同中列出的利率是多少？ 答：每年三个百分点。 问：每年三个百分点？ 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以滚动到第 7页。 问：谁签了这份协议？ 答：是我。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 81 / 87页 问：谁为借款人签了名？ 答：没有人。 问：有没有列出名字？ 答：没有。 问：有没有列出职位？ 答：没有。 问：李女士，你之前有没有审阅过这份合同？ 答：没有。 问：你为什么签它？ 答：因为每个农场都需要签。 费根森律师说：我们可以缩小视图。 问：李女士，谁给你发了这份借贷协议？ 答：张勇兵。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请展示标记为政府证物 121 的照片。 问：李女士，这是谁？ 答：张勇兵。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物 121。 施洛夫律师说：没有异议，法官大人。 法官说：接纳。 （政府证物 121 被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：请展示，洛夫特斯女士。 问：李女士，张勇兵是谁？ 答：张勇兵是郭文贵的支持者之一。 问：据你了解，他的职业是什么？ 答：他是美国的一名律师，移民律师。 问：你签了 Alfa Global借贷协议后，做了什么？ 答：我把它发回给他。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 82 / 87页 问：你有没有收到 Alfa Global签署的副本？ 答：没有。 问：我们看到借贷协议包括利息支付，对吗？ 答：对。 问：有人让你计算你应得的利息吗？ 答：有。 问：是谁？ 答：张勇兵。 问：张勇兵什么时候让你计算的？ 答：在我们准备这份借贷协议、签这份借贷��议的时候。 问：你对此做了什么回应？ 答：我计算并发送给张勇兵。 问：你有没有收到利息支付？ 答：没有。 问：据你所知，你的农场成员有没有收到利息支付？ 答：没有。 问：你有没有收到 GTV股票？ 答：没有。 问：据你所知，你的农场成员有没有收到 GTV股票？ 答：没有。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，你可以把它拿下来了。 问：李女士，你知道其他农场有没有收到利息支付吗？ 答：知道。 问：哪些农场？ 答：香草山农场。 问：还有其他吗？ 答：没有。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 83 / 87页 问：香草山农场在哪里？ 答：在纽约，是一个纽约的农场。 问：长岛哥或长岛兄弟与这个农场有什么关系吗？ 答：他是这个农场的领导。 问：你怎么知道那个农场收到了利息支付？ 答：我们和长岛哥有讨论，他说—— 问：李女士，请提高你的声音。 答：哦。我们和长岛哥有讨论。他说香草山农场收到了利息。 问：你为什么认为香草山农场收到了利息支付？ 答：因为当时SEC开始调查香草山农场。 问：SEC 的调查与支付利息给香草山农场有什么关系？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。 问：据你所知。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：因为他们想向 SEC展示这是真正的贷款，而不是为了 GTV股票。 问：李女士，农场贷款计划合同是真正的贷款吗？ 答：不是，是为了 GTV股票。 问：现在，我们谈到郭文贵告诉你把你们农场的钱汇到 Medical Supply 或汇两百万到 Medical Supply的事。 答：记得。 施洛夫律师说：反对。这不是一个问题。 法官说：问题马上就来。 问：郭文贵有没有告诉你其他农场的贷款计划资金应该汇到哪里？ 答：有。 问：请描述一下这是如何运作的。 答：其他农场收集了足够的钱，他们会要求银行账户。然后我会问郭文贵要发送到哪里， 他会给我银行账户详细信息，然后我再把信息发回其他农场。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 84 / 87页 问：其他农场的贷款资金汇到了哪里？ 答：ACA Capital。 问：提醒我们一下，ACA Capital的银行账户在哪里？ 答：在阿布扎比。 问：李女士，你刚才说郭文贵告诉你保留一百万美元农场资金，对吗？ 答：对。 问：你怎么处理那一百万美元？ 答：所以我支付给 IT承包商客户服务，按照郭文贵的其他指示。 问：你是直接与郭文贵协调的吗？ 答：不是，通过 Yvette Wang。 问：你为什么要和 Yvette Wang协调？ 答：郭文贵说 Yvette Wang会告诉我怎么做。 问：Yvette Wang的中文名字是什么？ 答：王雁平。 问：请你拼一下，李女士。 答：W-A-N-G，Y-A-N，P-I-N。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们能不能请您只给证人展示标记为政府 证物 VI-173 的文件？请向下滚动几页给证人看，然后再向上滚动。 问：李女士，这是什么文件？ 答：这是确认秘密翻译组农场贷款计划支付给总部一些费用的文件。 问：谁签了这份文件？ 答：王雁平和我。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物 VI-173。 法官说：没有异议？ 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我认为我们实际上有异议。 法官说：好的，那我们稍后再处理这个问题。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 85 / 87页 费根森律师说：鉴于时间问题，法官大人，您是否希望我——现在可能是 2:58。我们现在休庭吗？ 法官说：是的，我认为这是一个好主意。 陪审团成员们，我们今天就到这里。明天早上你们 9点到法庭，但你们可以在 8:30 到陪审团室；你们的早餐将在 8:30送达。 请记住，你们不能在自己之间讨论案件，也不能让他人在你们面前讨论案件。不要 阅读、观看或听取任何与本案有关的任何来源的内容。祝你们晚上愉快。 （陪审团不在场） 法官说：你们可以坐下。 费根森律师说：法官大人，我们可以让证人离开吗？ 法官说：是的，你可以离开。不许讨论你的证词。你可以退场——出去。 （证人不在场） 法官说：所以我希望律师们明天早上 8:45准备好，在我们 9点开庭之前 讨论任何事项。 费根森律师说：好的，法官大人。 法官说：还有什么事吗——我们有一个未决的反对意见。施洛夫女士。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我其实只是想——我需要确认一下，因为我不 确定对 173号文件的翻译是否正确。这是我反对的主要原因。我愿意在明天开庭 前与他们沟通，看我们是否继续反对。 费根森律师说：主要是用普通话写的，法官大人。有部分是英文的。我们 不提供翻译，只提供原件。 施洛夫律师说：这对我来说是新的。我很确定有一个陪审员有一些语言技 能。我现在无法表态。我确实需要确认。我愿意—— 法官说：好的。我们可以在明天早上 8:45讨论。还有其他事情吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，我认为我们可以给他们提供翻译。我们很乐意 尽快尝试这样做，以便他们可以审查。如果我们想提供翻译，我们也可以。 法官说：好的，这是个好主意。 费根森律师说：谢谢，法官大人。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 86 / 87页 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我明天早上有个约会，我可以调整，但我周五 也有同样的约会。我只需要知道直接证言还要多久。我不是要求法庭改变任何人 的到庭时间。我只需要知道我们是否真的会整天进行直接证言。 费根森律师说：对不起，问题是我的直接证言会持续一整天吗？ 施洛夫律师说：是的，直接证言会持续多久，这是问题。 费根森律师说：我总是——我总是——我不太愿意估计。法官，我认为不 会需要一整天，但还有相当多的内容需要讨论。我估计可能还剩三分之二，也许 会少一些——希望比三分之二稍微少一点。 施洛夫律师说：好的。我会调整我的日程安排。没关系。好的，法官大 人。谢谢。 法官说：你还有什么要提的吗？ 施洛夫律师说：没有了，法官大人。谢谢。 法官说：好的。祝你晚上愉快。 费根森律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 （休庭至 2024 年 6 月 6 日早上 8:45）
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O65BGUO1 2024-6-5 庭审记录 第 87 / 87页 庭审记录： 页码 （参照英文原版页码） 珍妮·李 席里克先生交叉询问.................1259 李娅 费根森律师直接询问.................1315 政府证物： 证物编号 收到 VI-184....................................1344 Stip-10..................................1345 184-T....................................1346 37........................................1349 VK-5....................................1365 VI-158..................................1369 VI-158-T...............................1369 VI-20....................................1383 121.......................................1385
- Still improving the pages, send suggestions to [email protected]