Original Court Transcript(原始庭审记录)
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
v. 23 Cr. 118 (AT)
MILES GUO,
Defendant. Trial
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New York, N.Y.
June 6, 2024
8:45 a.m.
Before:
HON. ANALISA TORRES,
District Judge
-and a Jury-
APPEARANCES
DAMIAN WILLIAMS
United States Attorney for the
Southern District of New York
BY: MICAH F. FERGENSON
RYAN B. FINKEL
JUSTIN HORTON
JULIANA N. MURRAY
Assistant United States Attorneys
SABRINA P. SHROFF
Attorney for Defendant
PRYOR CASHMAN LLP
Attorneys for Defendant
BY: SIDHARDHA KAMARAJU
JOHN M. KILGARD
CLARE P. TILTON
ALSTON & BIRD LLP
Attorneys for Defendant
BY: E. SCOTT SCHIRICK
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ALSO PRESENT:
Isabel Loftus, Paralegal Specialist, USAO
Ruben Montilla, Defense Paralegal
Tuo Huang, Interpreter (Mandarin)
Shi Feng, Interpreter (Mandarin)
Yu Mark Tang, Interpreter (Mandarin)
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(Trial resumed; jury not present)
THE COURT: Good morning. Would you make your
appearances.
MR. FERGENSON: Good morning, your Honor. Micah
Fergenson, Ryan Finkel, Juliana Murray——and Justin Horton will
be joining us for the United States; also joined at counsel
table by our paralegal Isabel Loftus.
MS. SHROFF: Good morning, your Honor. On behalf of
Miles Guo, Sabrina Shroff, Sidhardha Kamaraju, John Kilgard and
Mr. Schirick, who is behind the counsel table, as well as
Ms. Tilton.
THE COURT: Please be seated.
All the jurors are present. We're ready to start at
9 a.m. Is there anything before that?
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, the defense have one matter
to raise, if I may.
So, your Honor, as to the pending exhibit, which is I
believe 173, we are not able to agree to its admission because
part of it is still not translated. To the extent that the
government's translations were sent to us, we find them mostly
acceptable. We have our check done. But there's a portion
that is not yet translated, so to the extent that can get
translated, we would take a different position.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, we sent this to defense
counsel at the end of the trial day. It's about a 24-page
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exhibit, with a few different documents. It's a letter that
encloses several records, including some accounting sheets and
then some invoices. It's basically an accounting of the
$1 million that Ms. Li was told to keep and where she
transferred it. She's an accountant, and she kept these
records. She sent it as a letter to Yvette Wang, and it's
signed by both Ms. Li and Ms. Wang. The first six pages or so
have text. We had translated five of the six pages when we
sent it to defense. I flagged that the sixth page was not
translated. We don't intend to show the sixth page to the
jury. We're also fine to proceed with just the Mandarin
version, your Honor. It's fine. Primarily I want to focus on
the invoices at the back of it, and the fact that it's signed
by Yvette Wang and Ms. Li. So we're happy to proceed, you
know, whatever makes the most sense, your Honor. We don't want
to just delay things.
But just for further context, your Honor, the invoices
and the wire transfer records, those are all in English.
They're just, you know, like business records. And that's what
we want to focus on in this exhibit. You know, we can——we
don't have the sixth page translated. We can——
THE COURT: Is there a reason for that?
MR. FERGENSON: It's how we got it back from our
translation service. They may have skipped over it as a
mistake. It's what we have. I apologize for the, you know,
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the inconvenience here, your Honor. We're not——we can proceed
with just the Mandarin version and focus on the invoices, if
that seems acceptable to the Court. Those portions are in
English.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, it would be improper to admit
a half document because the government only plans to use
certain pages. So we're happy to have that one page translated
and send it to the government. Or the government can I
think——I stopped because it looks like the Court wants——
THE COURT: This page needs to be translated if you
want to use this document.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, there's no rule that
requires English-only documents. And the evidence in this case
is a mix of Mandarin and English, and there's going to be
documents that are in both Mandarin and English.
THE COURT: Are you saying that you have documents
that are exclusively in Mandarin that you intend to admit?
MR. FERGENSON: We may. And there's certainly many
documents that are a mix of Mandarin and English together.
THE COURT: Well, I'm not interested in what might
happen. I want to know: What is your intention? Do you
intend to attempt to admit documents that are exclusively in
Mandarin?
MR. FERGENSON: The portions of this document that are
in Mandarin, yes.
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THE COURT: You're not answering my question.
MR. FERGENSON: I——may I have a moment, your Honor. I
can just confer briefly. I don't know exactly every single
exhibit in the case.
(Government counsel conferring)
MR. FERGENSON: We may offer some recordings, your
Honor, that have the defendant's voice that are in Mandarin for
the fact that, you know, it was him speaking.
With respect to this document, the important point
about the Mandarin section is just the Yvette Wang signature;
her name is spelled out, Yvette Wang, and she signed it.
That's the portion from the Mandarin section we would like to
highlight for the jury. That portion is all translated as
well. It's the sixth page, which——it just lists what the
invoices are that follows. And I'm not going to——it's like a
cover page for all the invoices. I'm not even going to show
that to the jury or talk about it. I'm just going to look at
some of the invoices, which are all in English. And if your
Honor would like, we can just redact page 6 and, you know,
proceed that way.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, that presupposes that the
defense would waive any argument that an incomplete document
can be shown to the jury, one; and two, that the defense does
not, under the rule of completeness, intend to use this portion
of the document. It would be prejudicial to the defendant.
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I also just looked at my emails, your Honor, and the
government gave notice that they planned to call another
witness tomorrow so they have some time on their hands.
Apparently the direct and cross of Ms. Mulan is not going to go
into tomorrow all the way. So I think that the amount of time
we've just gone back and forth——if we take ten minutes at the
break, I think this could be resolved. But the defense has a
continuing objection to the document being admitted in some——I
don't know if it's aborted or incomplete form.
THE COURT: Wait. I'm sorry. You're saying that you
think that you may reach a resolution regarding this sixth
page?
MS. SHROFF: It's just one page. All he has to do is
get it translated. If they would agree, we could, in the
break, have a Google Translate. But we have ample time.
According to them, they have enough time tomorrow to call
another witness, so we can take our time and get it done.
THE COURT: I'm not going to permit you to use a
document where one page is missing a translation.
MR. FERGENSON: Okay, your Honor. But if we reach
agreement, for example, with Google Translate and they're fine
with us offering it, is that okay with the Court?
THE COURT: Absolutely. Because it does look like a
list, and it is a short list.
MR. FERGENSON: Yes.
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THE COURT: So I invite you to do that.
Anything else?
MR. FERGENSON: No, your Honor.
MS. SHROFF: Not from us, your Honor.
THE COURT: All righty.
(Recess)
THE COURT: Please be seated.
Would you have the jurors brought in, please.
(Continued on next page)
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O661GUO1 Ya Li - Direct
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Please be seated.
Good morning, jurors.
THE JURORS: Good morning.
THE COURT: I want to thank everyone for arriving on
time.
We're going to continue with the direct examination of
the witness.
Please remember that you are still under oath.
YA LI, resumed.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Good morning, Ms. Li.
A. Good morning, Mr. Fergenson.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, could we please publish
Government Exhibit VI191, which is in evidence.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I'm not sure 191 is fully
admitted.
THE COURT: Do you need a sidebar?
MR. FERGENSON: I don't believe so, your Honor.
MS. SHROFF: No, your Honor. I think a portion of
that is admitted. I think we're fine.
THE COURT: Okay. You may inquire.
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
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O661GUO1 Ya Li - Direct
Q. Ms. Li, you testified yesterday about this video. Do you
recall that?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: All right. And I'll now
read——actually, can we show also Government Exhibit VI192,
which I believe is also in evidence.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may——we do actually need a
sidebar.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, it's not in evidence. I
don't think we need a sidebar. We can——
MS. SHROFF: It's not in evidence.
MR. FERGENSON: Either way, your Honor, I'll admit it
again if we need to.
Could we show the witness, please, Government Exhibit
VI192.
All right. And Ms. Loftus, if we could just scroll
through this.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. All right. And Ms. Li, is this a clip from the video of
the YouTube page we just looked at?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you watch that video at the time?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government
Exhibit VI192, to the extent it's not already in evidence.
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O661GUO1 Ya Li - Direct
MS. SHROFF: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI192 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: And also, if we could publish that,
Ms. Loftus.
I'm also going to read a stipulation. It's just in
hard copy now.
This is Government Exhibit Stip 15. And first, I
guess the government offers Government Exhibit Stip 15.
THE COURT: Are you going to read it?
MR. FERGENSON: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you.
It is hereby stipulated and agreed between the parties
that in the below chart:
The exhibits listed under Column A contain audio or
text in a foreign language, and the exhibits listed under
Column B are true and accurate translations of the audio or
text contained in the exhibits listed under Column A.
And it just has GX VI192 and GX VI192-T. So the
government offers GX VI192-T and the Stip, Stip 15.
THE COURT: They're admitted.
(Government's Exhibits Stip 15 and VI192-T received in
evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, may we publish the hard
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copy of GX VI192-T.
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you.
All right. Ms. Loftus, if we could please play the
video.
(Video played)
MR. FERGENSON: You can pause it there.
I'm just going to go ahead and read a portion,
starting at 1:08 on the transcript.
"I told all the directors of the Rule of Law Fund that
there are several requirements that cannot be changed:
"First, Guo Wengui's US $100 million will be donated
to the Rule of Law Fund in proportion and that from me was
received first. I bear legal responsibility for what I said
today. This is today's Rule of Law Fund. 2/3 of the cash in
the account come from Wengui. In other words, for every US
dollar donated by fellow fighters, 2 US dollars come from
Wengui. After donating the 100 million US dollars, Wengui is
coordinating a donation of 1 billion US dollars to the Rule of
Law Fund."
Q. Ms. Li, was that one of the broadcasts you watched?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: All right. We can take that down,
Ms. Loftus.
Q. Now, Ms. Li, when we left off yesterday, we were discussing
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what you did with the $1 million from the farm loan program.
Do you recall that?
A. Yes.
Q. Just at a high level, what did you do with that $1 million?
A. So Miles Guo told me pay some expenses on behalf of
headquarters.
Q. And what sort of expenses?
A. It's GTV IT engineering and customer service, for G
Fashion.
THE COURT: Please speak loudly and into the
microphone.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
Q. Ms. Li, if you point the top of the microphone towards your
mouth, that might help.
And what was the process for how you would pay those
expenses?
A. So for the GTV IT engineering, the guy called Ming, he's a
CTO of the GTV at that time, he will send me a Excel
spreadsheet about the——every month, how much need to pay to
each person, then according to that Excel spreadsheet, I will
make invoice to them and then I will pay from that, make a
payment according to that Excel spreadsheet.
Q. And what entity or entities did you use to make those
payments?
A. G Translators and the TT Resources 1.
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O661GUO1 Ya Li - Direct
MS. SHROFF: I'm sorry. I couldn't hear the second
part of what she said.
Q. Could you repeat the second entity.
A. TT Resources 1.
Q. And what was TT Resources?
A. TT Resources 1 is an entity to making payment for the
expenses on behalf of the headquarters.
Q. And who created that entity?
A. That's me.
Q. Who came up with the idea for creating that entity?
A. No, Miles Guo asked me to do this, to help him.
Q. And Ms. Li, these payments that you were asked to make, did
you in fact make these payments?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you spend any of the $1 million on yourself?
A. No.
Q. Did you spend any of the $1 million on your family?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. Because it's the investors' money, not my money.
Q. With respect to the $2 million you transferred to medical
supply, do you know what ultimately happened to that money?
A. I don't know.
Q. If you had known that farm loan money would be spent on
Miles Guo and his family, would you have transferred the
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$2 million to medical supply?
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor——
A. No.
MS. SHROFF: ——this exact question has been asked and
answered several times.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
Q. If you had known that farm loan money would be spent on Guo
personally and his family personally, would you have
transferred the $2 million of farm loan money to medical
supply?
A. No.
Q. Ms. Li, were there refunds from the farm loan money you
received?
A. Yes.
Q. And what did you typically do when a member requested
refunds?
A. So if someone would ask me for refund, I normally will
tell, report it to Miles Guo, and he——he will give me some
directions.
Q. Why would you report that to Miles Guo?
A. Because it's his investment project.
Q. And when you would report a refund request to Miles Guo,
how would he respond?
A. So, depends. Depends on the supporter's attitude. If it's
normal, we'll give them the refund. If——if the supporter's
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public criticize him or criticize——criticize the New Federal
State of China, then we not refund.
Q. And if a supporter who asked for a refund criticized the
NFSC, who told you not to refund it?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. Himself or through an intermediary?
A. Himself.
Q. Ms. Li, are you familiar with Himalaya Dollar and Himalaya
Coin?
A. Yes.
Q. What did Guo say Himalaya Dollar and Himalaya Coin were?
A. So Himalaya Dollar and Himalaya Coin are cryptocurrencies.
Q. What did you call Himalaya Coin for short?
A. H Coin.
Q. What did you call Himalaya Dollar for short?
A. HDO.
Q. And with those——like more specifically with respect to
each, what did Guo say HDO was?
A. HDO——1 HDO equal 1 US dollar.
Q. And what did Guo say H Coin was?
A. H Coin is up and down; the price will up and down like any
other cryptocurrency.
Q. And was H Coin backed by anything, according to Guo?
A. It is backed by 20 percent gold.
Q. Did you believe it was backed by 20 percent gold?
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A. Yes.
Q. Why did you believe that?
A. He said he——he's going to send the photo, the gold photo to
us.
Q. Did that ever happen?
A. No.
Q. Around when did Guo start promoting HDO and H Coin?
A. 2021.
Q. Ms. Li, what was the H Coin quota?
A. H Coin quota is——depends on how much you invest, investment
amount. You get 50 percent H Coin quota.
Q. So can you explain. Can you give us an example of how that
would work, Ms. Li.
A. Yes. If you investment amount is 10,000, then you get
5,000 H Coin quota, and each H Coin is worth 10 cents, so you
need to pay 500 US dollars to buy these 5,000 quota.
Q. So you invested 10,000 previously. How many——
MS. SHROFF: Objection to the "previously."
THE COURT: Overruled. You may continue.
Q. You invested 10,000 previously. How many H coins would you
be eligible to buy in the H Coin book?
A. 5,000.
Q. And what would be the price of each of those 5,000 H coins
under the H Coin quota?
A. 10 cents.
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Q. And how much would you have to pay for those in total?
A. $500.
Q. And where would you pay that $500?
A. To Himalaya Exchange.
Q. All right. Now who came up with the H Coin quota?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. And around when did the H Coin quota start?
A. Start early 2021.
Q. Did you participate yourself?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, can we please show the
witness what's marked as Government Exhibit VI171.
Q. Ms. Li, what is this document?
A. This contract to confirm my H Coin quota.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI171.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MS. SHROFF: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI171 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Could we just publish it.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. While we're waiting, Ms. Li, what was this a contract for?
A. This contract is for my H Coin quota.
MR. FERGENSON: And Ms. Loftus, can we blow up the top
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half, please.
Q. All right. Now, Ms. Li, it says Mountains of Spices LLC at
the top. What's Mountains of Spices LLC?
A. This New York farm, the name of the New York farm.
Q. Were you a member of Mountains of Spices LLC?
A. Yes.
Q. You were a member of Mountains of Spices?
A. No. Sorry. No.
Q. Why is this contract with Mountains of Spices?
A. Because I'm the G Translators leader so my member will sign
a similar contract with me, but because I'm the leader, I can't
sign contract with myself, so the leader is signed with
Mountains of Spices farm.
Q. And focusing on the top right, what's the date?
A. 21st of October 2021.
Q. And on the left there it says, Name of the HF Member.
What's HF?
A. Himalaya Farm.
Q. And what's the name here?
A. My name.
MR. FERGENSON: And if we could scroll down,
Ms. Loftus.
So in the bold it says "Himalaya Exchange."
"Preference and Discounted H Coin Rate to Ya Li."
"Letter of Agreement."
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O661GUO1 Ya Li - Direct
And I'll just keep reading the paragraph there.
"I am pleased to inform you that, in recognition of
the contributions made by you, whose full name and details
appear above and below ('HF Member') in helping support the
visions of the Himalaya Farm to achieve its missions and
visions, HF has successfully procured from Himalaya Exchange
('the Exchange') a favorable benefit namely to agree to grant
you, the HF Member, the opportunity to subscribe 66,781
Himalaya Coin ('H Coin') from the Exchange at a preferred and
discounted rate of United States Dollar 10 cents per H Coin
('the Preference HF Rate Option'), before the official launch
of H Coin to the general public for open market trading."
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, just for reference, when was the official launch of
H Coin for trading?
A. 1st of November 2021.
Q. And you said this was October 21, so this is——
A. About a week ago, yeah.
Q. A week before that. Okay. Let's——let me ask you, Ms. Li,
at a high level, how were your 66,781 H coins calculated?
A. It's calculate——first part is my investment amount, and
second part is my volunteer work contribution, and third part
is Rule of Law Foundation donation.
MR. FERGENSON: And Ms. Loftus, if we could scroll
down to page 2.
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All right. And I want to go to page 5——I mean
paragraph 5 there.
Okay. And I'll read this.
"A material term of this Letter of Agreement is that
you hereby irrevocably consent, to fully and indefinitely
complying with the following warranties and undertakings:
"You warrant and confirm that you are a member of the
HF and therefore subscribe to the rules and ideology of the HF,
('subscribing HF Member')."
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Just to pause there for a moment, Ms. Li, what are the
rules and ideology of the Himalaya Farm?
A. So we——you have to——the ideology here is you have to taking
down the CCP and not——not to cooperate with CCP, and also have
to support Miles Guo, support Himalaya Alliance, and not to
criticize Miles Guo and criticize New Federal State of China
publicly.
Q. So part of the rules and ideology of the HF were not to
criticize Miles Guo?
MS. SHROFF: Objection to the leading, your Honor.
THE COURT: Mr. Fergenson, no need to repeat her
testimony.
MR. FERGENSON: Understood, your Honor.
Okay. I'll keep reading the bullets now.
"As a subscribing HF Member, you warrant and confirm
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that you abide by the rules and ideology of the HF and
acknowledge that you understand that the mission of the HF can
only be achieved with each subscribing HF Member's strict and
committed adherence to the rules and ideology of the HF ('HF
commitment').
"You warrant and understand that the offer of the
Preference HF Rate——"actually, we can keep scrolling down.
And if we could actually——yeah, we can go to page 3
here. This is great.
So this section in bold says "Breach and Enforcement
of this Letter of Agreement."
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Now, Ms. Li, to get your roughly 66,000 H coins at the
10-cent rate, about how much money did you have to pay?
A. So about 6,000 something US dollar, yeah.
Q. Did you pay that?
A. Yes.
Q. Where?
A. Himalaya Exchange.
MR. FERGENSON: All right. So I'll read this.
"A breach of this agreement amounts to a loss of
benefit to HF, which could have been allocated to another
member.
"If HF determines with sufficient evidence that you,
as the HF Member, have breached any of the above warranties and
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undertakings, which have entitled you to benefit from the
Preference HF Rate Option, such breach shall be considered a
material breach of this letter of agreement and therefore all
rights and benefits attached to the Preference HF Rate Option
which you have accrued, benefited from or which you may become
entitled to shall automatically be revoked by HF, and you
hereby——" if we could scroll down, please "——authorize and
consent to notify the Exchange to automatically terminate the
benefit."
And it says, "As a result of the breach of this
agreement, HF can take any necessary legal action whether," and
the third line from the bottom there says——or the fourth, that
"including instructing the Exchange to undertake a forced
liquidation of all the H coins purchased by you. . ." And it
says, "By signing this agreement, you consent to a liquidation
of all H coins purchased by you. . ."
If we could scroll down.
And paragraph 10 refers to recoverable sums.
Ms. Loftus, if we could go to——I'm sorry. Scroll up
slightly.
Thank you.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, what did you understand this contract to say about
breaching——what happens if you breach the contract?
A. If you breach the contract, so the Himalaya Alliance have
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the right to take back all your H coins.
Q. And under what circumstances would they be allowed to take
back your H coins?
A. If you breach the contract, which is you——you're doing
something against Miles Guo and Miles Guo's movement and the
New Federal State of China.
Q. And what did Miles Guo call people who did that?
A. CCP spy or traitor.
MR. FERGENSON: If we could scroll down, please,
to——you can go to page 6.
Q. All right. Ms. Li, who signed this agreement?
A. Me and Xia Qidong.
Q. Can you remind us of his other name.
A. Brother Long Island, Changdao.
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, Ms. Loftus. We can take
this down.
Q. Ms. Li, in addition to buying H Coin yourself, what, if
anything, did you do to help other supporters participate in
the H Coin quota?
A. I used my farm company to help Japan Farm and New York Farm
to buy H Coin.
Q. And why?
A. And also my——my own farm members, yeah.
Q. Why did you have to help the Japan Farm and the US Farm to
buy H Coin quota?
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A. Because that time, Himalaya Exchange is not available in
Japan, New York——America, and Canada.
Q. You said you used a company. Which company of yours was
used to receive and send farm money?
A. HAA Group.
Q. Why did you use HAA Group for the other farms' money?
A. Oh, because this——because this company is in Australia and
it's not a G Translator. I want to separate.
Q. What did you use G Translators for with the H Coin quota?
A. It's for my farm members.
Q. Now, by the way, Ms. Li, what did Miles Guo say about
whether he owned H coins?
A. He owned nothing. He and his family owned no any H Coin.
Q. What did he say about whether he owned the Himalaya
Exchange?
A. Not——nothing.
Q. All right. Now, Ms. Li——
A. No any interest.
Q. Ms. Li, remind us, when did the Himalaya Exchange
officially launch?
A. 1st of November 2021.
Q. Oh, I'm sorry, Ms. Li. To go back briefly——
A. Yes.
Q. ——the money you received from the New York and Japan farms,
how much money did you receive?
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A. About 5 million.
Q. And where did you send that money?
A. Hamilton Fund.
Q. And why did you send it to Hamilton Fund?
A. I was told to send it to Hamilton Fund.
Q. And what was your understanding of the connection, if any,
between Hamilton Fund and the Himalaya Exchange?
A. Hamilton Fund is an institutional investor to Himalaya
Exchange.
Q. So what was your understanding of what would happen with
the $5 million you sent to the Hamilton Fund?
A. They were going to buy H coin for us.
Q. All right. Thank you, Ms. Li.
You said the official launch was November 1, 2021.
According to the Himalaya Exchange website, what happened to
the price of H Coin after it launched?
A. After launch, it increased quickly.
Q. How quickly?
A. Like in one week, it reach about $20 a dollar, and the
highest price can reach about $55.
Q. And so the highest price was $55?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor, to Mr. Fergenson
testifying.
MR. FERGENSON: I'm just trying to get to the
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question, your Honor. I'll try and do it more quickly.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
Q. So what was the price that you bought the H Coin——
A. 10-cent.
Q. And remind us, approximately how many H coins did you have
from the H Coin quota?
A. About 60,000.
Q. And remind us, about how much did you pay for that?
A. 6,000.
Q. And when the price was $55, if I can ask you to do math,
approximately what was the value of your H coins?
A. About 3 million.
Q. Ms. Li, what was the H Coin lockup?
A. Around the 20th of November, Miles Guo said everyone need
to lock up our H Coin for three years, and lock up 90 percent
our H Coin for three years.
Q. And how would everyone's H Coin or 90 percent of the H Coin
be locked up?
A. So we will fill a form from Himalaya Exchange and send it
back to Himalaya Exchange and our coin will be transferred to a
company called FMV, the FMV account.
Q. What did FMV stand for?
A. Freedom Media Ventures.
Q. And what was FMV or Freedom Media Ventures?
A. That's a company for new GTV.
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Q. We'll talk about that, but who, to your understanding,
controlled FMV?
A. Miles Guo.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could please show
the witness what's marked as Government Exhibit VI181.
And if we could just scroll through it quickly.
Q. Ms. Li, what's this video?
A. This is Miles Guo's broadcast.
Q. Did you watch it at the time?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI181.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I have one question before——
VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION.
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. Ms. Li, you watched it at the time of what?
A. Of this broadcast.
Q. What year?
A. 2021.
MS. SHROFF: Thank you. I have no objection, your
Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI181 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, we can go ahead and play
it, please.
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(Video played)
MR. FERGENSON: Okay. Ms. Loftus, if we can pull up
the translation, Government Exhibit VI——sorry. Pursuant to the
stipulation, your Honor, government offers Government Exhibit
VI181-T.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI181-T received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: If we could pull that up, please,
Ms. Loftus.
All right. And if we can zoom in on the text, please.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. All right. Ms. Li, what was the date of this broadcast?
A. It's 1st of December 2021.
MR. FERGENSON: And I'll go ahead and read the text.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I apologize. May I just
confer with the government for a minute.
THE COURT: You may.
(Counsel conferring)
MS. SHROFF: Thank you, your Honor.
MR. FERGENSON: We can publish that, please,
Ms. Loftus.
So I'll read the text. It says:
Many comrades-in-arms ask about holding the H coins on
behalf, and many people send messages, but I can't reply one by
one. I now ask my little fan sister to send one: I asked a
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question on behalf of many comrades-in-arms. These days
everyone has been concerning the suo coins."
A. Suo is lockup coins.
Q. Concerning the lockup coins. Now one question——
MS. SHROFF: Sorry, your Honor. I missed what she
said.
THE COURT: Ms. Li, what is suo coins?
THE WITNESS: Yes, suo is Chinese. That's meaning
lockup.
THE COURT: Low cap?
MR. FERGENSON: Lockup.
THE WITNESS: Lockup H Coin.
MR. FERGENSON: "Now one question is that the Alliance
said that GTV company helps everyone hold money, but the name
of the company at Himalaya Exchange which sent emails to us is
different from the company name of our GTV reconstruction
project. Which of the two companies, Freedom Media and Virtual
Ltd, is our GTV company? Can the comrades-in-arms feel
relieved to sign the email sent by the Himalaya Exchange?
First, the documents given by the Himalaya Exchange can be
signed with ease. Second, the new GTV company, called FMV, is
the general nominal shareholder. I will also tell you that,
for any single coin you lost, Brother 7 will be responsible.
For any documents given to you by the Himalaya Exchange and the
alliance, Brother 7 will be fully responsible."
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BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, what's your understanding of what Guo was
discussing here?
A. So some——when supporters ask the questions concern about
the name of the new entity, is that should we send the coin to
there, so Miles Guo confirmed, yes, we can send the coin to
that FMV because that's a new GTV company. And also, he
guaranteed the H Coin, you won't lost any coin, if you lost
everything, he's responsible.
Q. Ms. Li, at this time did you know who the directors of FMV
were?
A. No.
Q. Did there come a time when you learned who the director or
directors of FMV were?
A. Yes.
Q. Who?
A. The name is He Haoran.
Q. Could you please spell that for the court reporter.
A. H-E, H-A-O-R-A-N.
Q. And how did you learn He Haoran was the director of FMV?
A. Because one day the lawyer sended me a document to sign.
The document showing He Haoran is the director of FMV.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, can we please show the
witness what's marked as Government Exhibit VI34.
Q. Ms. Li, what's this document?
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A. So this is an email the lawyer sent to me, asked me to sign
the document.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI34.
THE COURT: No objection?
MS. SHROFF: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI34 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Could we publish, Ms. Loftus.
And Ms. Loftus, we can start down at the last page,
please.
Now can you scroll up one, next page.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Okay. Ms. Li, you said this was the email the lawyer sent
you?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, can we blow up the text in
the bottom email.
Q. What's the date of this email on the top left?
A. 10th of September 2022.
Q. And who is it from?
A. It's from Cherise Archibald.
Q. And who is that?
A. It's a BVI lawyer.
MR. FERGENSON: And I'll read the body. It says:
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"Hi, Mulan. I trust you are doing well. I am
attaching a resolution appointing you as an authorized
representative to operate the Himalaya Exchange Wallet for
Freedom Media Ventures Ltd. Can you kindly insert your
signature into the attached document next to your name. Thanks
in advance."
If we could scroll up. And just the next email,
please.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Okay. And Ms. Li, could you read your response, please.
A. I said, "Hi Cherise, I couldn't find my name anywhere in
the document. Could you please check it again? Thank you."
MR. FERGENSON: And Ms. Loftus, let's go the top,
please, of that email.
No, the next one, please. Thank you.
All right. And she writes back, "Dear Mulan, I do
apologize for this. Please disregard the previous email."
Ms. Loftus, can we now show the witness only what's
marked as Government Exhibit VI35.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. All right. Ms. Li, is this the attachment to the email?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI35.
THE COURT: No objection?
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MS. SHROFF: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI35 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Could you please publish.
And Ms. Loftus, we're going to zoom in on the top
portion.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Okay. Ms. Li, do you see at the top in bold center it
says, "Written Resolution of the Sole Direct, Freedom Media
Ventures Ltd ('the Company')"?
A. Yes.
Q. And then I'll read the next line, where it just says, "I,
Haoran He, being the sole director of the company. . ."
Where was this company incorporated?
A. BVI.
Q. And the name Haoran He, is that the person you referenced
earlier?
A. Yes.
Q. And in Chinese, do you typically give the last name first?
A. Yes, we call He Haoran.
Q. So with Haoran He, what is the last name there?
A. He.
Q. Okay. Thank you, Ms. Li.
MR. FERGENSON: So if we could, I'll read the whereas.
It says, "Whereas:
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"Himalaya Exchange ('the Exchange') is a crypto
ecosystem that provides financial services, crypto expertise
and credibility with a regulated, transparent and secure crypto
exchange."
It says, "The company has an existing account with the
exchange ('the Account') for the purpose of online virtual
trading.
"The account is held and managed through a virtual
trading platform."
It says, "The company desires to remove and replace
Alexandros Hadjicharalambous, who was appointed on
October 31st, 2021, as the company's authorised representative
of the Account held with the Exchange.
"The company therefore recommends Hao Tian be
appointed as its new authorised representative to access,
operate, and manage its account held with the Exchange, as may
be instructed by the company from time to time."
Ms. Li, who is Hao Tian?
A. Hao Tian is one of the supporter.
Q. What did she do?
MR. FERGENSON: You could scroll down, Ms. Loftus,
too.
A. She used to be the director of G Fashion.
THE COURT: Of what?
THE WITNESS: Of G Fashion.
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MR. FERGENSON: And Ms. Loftus, we could just blow up
the signature line there.
Q. All right. And who is listed as the sole director for this
document?
A. He Haoran.
Q. And sole director of what company?
A. Of——of Freedom Media Ventures, FMV.
Q. Before receiving this document, Ms. Li, had you ever heard
of him?
A. No.
Q. What was——to your knowledge, what was Haoran He's role in
the movement?
A. I don't know.
Q. What's your understanding of who he is?
MS. SHROFF: Her understanding today, her
understanding back then?
Q. What's your understanding today?
A. He's one of the family member of Miles Guo.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, we can take it down.
Q. Ms. Li, did there come a time when you helped supporters
invest in what you described yesterday as the Digital Bank
Project?
A. Yes.
Q. What was that investment project?
A. Digital Bank is Miles Guo——it's a——this is a investment
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project exclusively to the supporters. This investment will
buy a digital bank.
Q. Approximately when was money being raised for the Digital
Bank Project?
A. About early 2022.
Q. And what did you do to help people invest in digital bank?
A. So Miles Guo asked me to set up a fund in Australia, and in
Himalaya Alliance, the members who want to invest to digital
bank, they can come to my fund and that way we'll invest
together.
Q. What was the name of your fund?
A. Ashwood.
Q. Who promoted the digital bank investment?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. What did Guo say about it?
A. This very good investment opportunity. It's very rare
opportunity, and a good——we'll have a good investment return,
and also we get——can get another digital bank, also another
betting company's license, but later the betting license is
being taken off.
Q. What, if anything, did Guo say about using H Coin to invest
in digital bank?
A. No. Miles Guo said for this investment, you can't sell
your H Coin to invest.
Q. So how could you invest?
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A. You have to pay US dollar.
Q. Ms. Li, how much money did you raise in your fund Ashwood,
or how much money was sent to your fund Ashwood?
A. About 8 million.
Q. And how many supporters invested?
A. About 55 members.
Q. Where did you send that money?
A. Hamilton Fund.
Q. When did you send that money?
A. About April 2022.
Q. And after you sent the $8 million of supporter money, what
happened after that?
A. Nothing happened, and then in around July 2022, I asked Wei
Lin Jen (ph), how is the progress, and Wei Lin Jen said they're
still doing some paperwork with authorities and we have to
wait, but he said our money is safe, not being used, all the
expenses is other investors' money.
Q. Ms. Li, to your knowledge was a bank or two banks and a
betting website ever actually purchased?
A. No.
Q. Ms. Li, what was the card program?
A. Card program is if you buy G/CLUBS card, so you get same
amount of GTV share.
Q. What kind of card was it?
A. G/CLUBS card.
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Q. And approximately when was the G/CLUBS card program being
offered?
A. In the early 2021.
Q. Was there a farm loan component to the card program?
A. Yes. Because G/CLUBS card start from 10,000 and onto
50,000, so if your investment is less than 10,000, can go to
the farm program, farm loan program.
Q. And was there a minimum through using the farm loan program
for G/CLUBS cards?
A. That's 10,000.
Q. Ms. Li, who promoted the card program?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. And what did he say?
A. He said if——if you buy the G/CLUBS card so you can get the
same amount of shares.
THE COURT: Shares in what?
THE WITNESS: GTV shares.
Q. Ms. Li, are you familiar with a company called Crane?
A. I heard from Miles Guo's broadcast.
Q. And what was Crane?
A. Crane is a company to receiving the card program——receiving
the money from the card program.
Q. And to your understanding why wasn't current program money
sent to G/CLUBS directly?
A. That at that time the G/CLUBS card——G/CLUBS company bank
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account have some problems.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could show the
witness what's marked as Government Exhibit VI55.
I'm sorry. VI155.
Ms. Loftus, if we could just scroll a little bit.
Q. All right. Ms. Li, what's this video?
A. This is a Miles Guo's broadcast.
Q. And did you watch this broadcast at the time?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: All right. Government offers
Government Exhibit VI155.
THE COURT: No objection?
MS. SHROFF: One question, your Honor.
VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION.
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. Ms. Li, what month and year did you watch this video for
the first time?
A. It's in——
Q. I'm sorry?
A. 2021.
Q. What month?
A. I can't remember.
Q. Did you watch it again with the prosecutor in his office?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: I have no objection, your Honor.
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THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI155 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Okay, Ms. Loftus, we can go back and
publish and play some of this video.
(Video played)
MR. FERGENSON: Let's pause there.
And Ms. Loftus, if we could first just show the
parties and the witness Government Exhibit VI155-T. And if we
could scroll down.
And if we could zoom on that, please, Ms. Loftus.
The government offers Government Exhibit VI155-T.
MS. SHROFF: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI155-T received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: All right. Ms. Loftus, if we could
zoom out and publish it, please. You can scroll to the top.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, what's the date listed here?
A. It's——it's——
Q. Does it say 8/3/2021?
A. 8 March of, sorry. It's March——
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, we'll stipulate that the
document——
A. The 8th of March 2021.
MR. FERGENSON: Okay. You can scroll down.
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All right. And if we could zoom on just the text,
just the statement text, please. I will——I can read the text.
It says:
"OK, brothers and sisters, today due to time
constraints, GTV, I talked about 50 percent, ah, then for the
time I have for these two days, I am going to talk about G Club
and G Fashion. Completely different from what you think.
Before I talk, I want to tell you guys, for G Fashion, up until
now, $25 million to $30 million have been invested, there is no
returns. How much does G Club sell? About $250 million. It's
like about 10 percent plus has been research and development
in, it has nothing to do with you. G Club, 25,000 cards, there
are 25,000 people in it. Everyone needs to remember, now
everyone knows that the gift which is given to you exceeds your
original worth [value]. The most, you give 50,000 or 100,000,
buy two or three cards. I would like to tell everyone, whoever
buys the cards this year after May . . . after March, May . . .
it's that one . . . remitting to Crane, all of your . . . you
want card——" and I'm sorry. Remitting to Crane. Ms. Li, is
that that company you referenced earlier?
A. Yes.
Q. And it says, "You want card or you want stocks. For people
who wants card, you need to pay the management fee. It's ok if
you don't want the card, so you don't have to pay for the
management fee. You can just have the stocks. However,
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if. . . but you have to get the card first. After you get the
card for one year, you don't want to pay the management fee,
then the card will be automatically canceled. Then for that
card, that card can't be transferred because it is issued to
you. It can't be transferred. However, it can be inherited.
It can't be transferred. It's all up to you to decide.
However, for those who bought the cards originally, we call
those official card buyers, those can be inherited and can be
transferred. However, for these two cards, you can't return
for any reason. It's like the original normal cards, they
can't be returned. Moreover, what is this card going to do in
the future? I am going to tell everyone again, G Club will be
a pass for future finance of the G series and all the . . . and
comrades the whistleblower revolution to go out into the world
in the future, and it is also the predecessor of the future New
China Federation passport. Strictly speaking, it's the
earliest identification card of the New China Federation."
Ms. Li, the line where he says "buy two or three
cards," what's your understanding of what buying two or three
cards was referring to?
A. So if your investment is higher than 50,000, so you can
combine, buy multiple card to match your investment amount.
Q. What do you mean by that?
A. So for example, you can buy 50,000 card, or you can buy two
of them, then your investment amount is hundred thousand.
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MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, we can take this down.
Q. Ms. Li, did your farm collect money for the card program or
the, you know, the component loan program?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Objection to the term "component loan
program." There's been no testimony about that.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Approximately how much did you collect?
A. About 200,000, in total.
Q. And which entity collected the money?
A. HAA Group.
Q. What happened to that money?
A. Then we been told to send it to HCHK.
Q. And who told you?
A. Brother Island Changdao.
Q. And to your understanding, who gave instructions to Brother
Island Changdao?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. What was the company you sent it to?
A. HCHK Technology.
Q. What was your understanding of what that company was?
A. That's one of Miles Guo's headquarter company.
Q. Did you know anything else about it at that time?
A. No, nothing.
Q. At the time you sent that money, did you have a loan
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agreement with HCHK?
A. No.
Q. Did you have any contract with HCHK?
A. No.
Q. Did you later receive some kind of contract with HCHK?
A. No.
Q. Did you later receive a different agreement with respect to
that transfer?
A. Yes.
Q. And when did you receive that agreement?
A. About a year later.
Q. And could you please explain what that agreement was.
A. That agreement is we signed with the New Zealand Farm and
the New Zealand Farm will sign with HCHK on behalf of all other
farms, because we been told HCHK can't sign with every farm,
it's too much.
Q. And had you sent money to the New Zealand farm?
A. No.
Q. Ms. Li, what was your understanding of what the 200,000 you
sent to HCHK was going to be used for?
A. It's for investment for GTV shares.
Q. Did you or your farm receive GTV shares for that money?
A. No.
Q. Did you or your farm receive interest payments for that
money?
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A. No.
Q. By the way, Ms. Li, for each 1 dollar invested in the card
program, how many shares did Miles Guo say an investor would
get?
A. For the new GTV, you can get ten shares, so 1 dollar, you
get ten shares of new GTV shares.
Q. And did you get ten shares for each 1 dollar?
A. No.
Q. Now, Ms. Li, did you purchase any G/CLUBS cards?
A. Yes.
Q. How many?
A. One. Sorry, two.
Q. When did you purchase the first one?
A. Around April 2021.
Q. And how did you pay for that?
A. HDO.
Q. And remind us what HDO is.
A. HDO is 1 HDO equal 1 US dollar. It's one of the
cryptocurrency in Himalaya Exchange.
Q. And how much did you pay for your G/CLUBS card?
A. 50,000 HDO.
Q. Why did you buy that card in April 2021?
A. Because G/CLUBS card is our ID in New Federal State of
China.
Q. Who said that?
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A. Miles Guo.
Q. Turning to the second card, when did you buy the second
card?
A. Around July 2022.
Q. And how did you pay for that card?
A. Because one of my farm member want to refund the G/CLUBS
card so I buy from him.
Q. And did you pay with HDO or US dollars?
A. US dollar. I sent it to the—-another member.
Q. And how much was that card?
A. 10,000.
Q. And who did you send the 10,000 US dollars to?
A. To the supporters who wanted refund.
Q. And could you please explain——actually, withdrawn.
Who, if anyone, did you discuss that refund with?
A. With Miles Guo.
Q. And what did he say to you about that refund request?
A. He said that time, he said, don't refund, because that
member really betrayed us, start publicly criticize Miles Guo
and go to the traitor's broadcast.
Q. Why did you send him a refund anyway?
A. Because he's one of the member of my G Translators and he's
worked before. It's very hard. So I feel I have
responsibility to refund to him.
Q. Now so you sent him the $10,000. What happened with the
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G/CLUBS card he had bought?
A. So his card transferred to my name.
Q. Ms. Li, you mentioned the new GTV and FMV earlier. How
were supporters——or what did Miles Guo say about how supporters
could invest in FMV?
A. So FMV, so you need to send the US dollar to Himalaya
Exchange to buy the HDO, then send the HDO to FMV account with
Himalaya Exchange.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could show the
witness what's marked as Government Exhibit VI65.
Ms. Li, what is this document?
A. This is a G——new GTV contract.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI65.
THE COURT: No objection?
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may I have a quick question?
THE COURT: Yes.
VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. Ms. Li, did you ever read this document?
A. No, I just signed.
MS. SHROFF: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI65 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: All right. Ms. Loftus, could we
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publish, please.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. All right. Ms. Li, do you see in the center in red text it
says "Amended as at 16th February 2022"?
A. Yes.
Q. If we could please go——oh, let me ask you, Ms. Li, were you
sent this document?
A. From email.
Q. And why were you sent this document?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
Q. What's your understanding of why you were sent this
document?
A. Because this new GTV so we start to sign the new GTV share
purchase contract.
THE COURT: And by "we," what do you mean?
THE WITNESS: "We" means our supporters.
MR. FERGENSON: If we could go to page 2, Ms. Loftus.
Is there an objection? Okay. I'll read the first two
sentences.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may we have a sidebar?
THE COURT: Okay.
MS. SHROFF: Thank you.
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(At the sidebar)
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, she testified that she never
read the document. There's no question to pose about the
document itself because she never read it. And the only thing
that matters to this jury is whether or not she read it back
then, whether or not she relied on it back then, and what her
reliance is. If she never read it, there's nothing to ask her
about.
THE COURT: So are you saying that she can't
authenticate it because she didn't read it?
MS. SHROFF: No. I'm objecting to him questioning her
about the document. She cannot testify because she never read
it.
THE COURT: So you agree that it's admissible.
MR. FERGENSON: It's in evidence.
MS. SHROFF: We didn't object.
THE COURT: Okay. It's admitted. So are you going to
ask her questions about what she understood at the time, or
where are you going?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, we're allowed to review a
document in evidence with a witness. That was the entirety of
Mr. Medrano's testimony. He didn't invest or anything. And
this document was sent to her. We're going to look through it
together to show the document to the jury.
MS. SHROFF: We can't look through it together. She's
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not an expert witness. She is not a summary witness. She's a
fact witness, your Honor.
THE COURT: So any document in evidence can be read
aloud by any witness.
MS. SHROFF: I actually——no, I think that there has to
be a relevance issue. Nothing that she would testify to today
is relevant. The only——the only relevance to this document is
if she says, I relied on it to make my investment.
MR. FERGENSON: The relevance is not even an element——
MS. SHROFF: I haven't finished. So if you——
THE COURT: So it's relevant because she was involved
in the investment?
MR. FERGENSON: Yeah, and this was sent to her.
MS. SHROFF: And she never read it. That's why——
THE COURT: I'll permit the questions.
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you.
(Continued on next page)
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(In open court)
THE COURT: Overruled.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, I'll read the first two sentences. It says, this
revised confidential information memorandum is intended for
discussion purposes with select parties interested in
evaluating an opportunity to invest capital into Freedom Media
Ventures Ltd, the company.
THE INTERPRETER: Counsel, if you can slow down.
Q. Sure. The company is a newly formed business company
incorporated in the British Virgin Islands on June 15, 2021.
And, Ms. Loftus, could you blow up the third
paragraph.
Here it says, Neither the company, True Horizon LTD
(the company's parent company) and it continues.
Ms. Li, what is True Horizon LTD?
A. I don't know.
Q. Had you heard of that besides reading it here?
A. No.
Q. If we could go to page nine, please. And if we could zoom
on phase two. You see it says in the second line, Ms. Li, For
equivalent amount of Himalaya Dollars, defined as H dollar per
share.
A. Yes.
Q. What do you understand that to mean?
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A. So you can invest this by H Dollar.
Q. And we could zoom out. If we could go to page 11. I'm
sorry, Ms. Loftus, can we go back to page nine really quick. I
apologize. So if we could blow up the first paragraph under
preferred investor pricing.
I'll read this paragraph. In addition to the common
shares offered to qualified investors in this offering, the
company intends to offer common shares to a group of investors
who have previously supported similar media ventures, the
whistleblower movement and the company's mission statement,
defined as individual investors, who will have the opportunity
to purchase up to 10 common shares at a price of $1 per share
up to a total of 15 billion shares or equivalent amount of
Himalaya dollar per share as successfully procured on the
Himalaya Exchange.
Ms. Li, according to this document, how many shares
would you get for $1 or one H Dollar?
A. Twenty shares.
Q. Let's now go to page 11. Ms. Loftus, if we could blow up
the second half under board of directors and the sponsor.
Now, Ms. Li, under composition, do you see it says,
Currently one executive director has been appointed, and the
company will invite up to an additional four independent
directors. Do you see that?
A. Yes.
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Q. Let's zoom out and let's go to the next page.
Who is the one executive director in this document?
A. Yvette Wang.
Q. And under non-executive directors, could you read the first
name there?
A. Aaron Mitchell.
Q. Who is Aaron Mitchell?
A. He's the one of the lawyers of Miles Guo.
Q. And beneath that it says John A. Morgan.
Did you ever talk to John A. Morgan?
A. No.
Q. If we could scroll down. Those three people are the
executive and non-executives listed in this document, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Ms. Li, you testified earlier about being sent a document
that showed the sole director of FMV. Do you recall that?
A. Yes.
Q. And in that document you were sent by email, who was the
sole director of that FMV?
A. He Haoran.
Q. Is He Haoran listed in this document?
A. No.
Q. Ms. Loftus, can we please show the witness what's marked as
Government Exhibit VI-116.
Ms. Li, what's this document?
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A. This is share purchase agreement.
Q. For FMV?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government
Exhibit VI-116.
MS. SHROFF: Ms. Li, did you ever read this document?
THE WITNESS: When I receive, I just sign where I need
to sign.
MS. SHROFF: So the answer is no?
THE WITNESS: No.
MS. SHROFF: The first time that you read it, you read
it with this prosecutor, correct?
THE WITNESS: Correct.
MS. SHROFF: In this office, correct?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
MS. SHROFF: I have no objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-116 received in evidence)
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, did you provide this document to the government?
A. Yes.
Q. Can we publish Government Exhibit VI-116. Ms. Loftus, if
we can scroll a little bit if we can scroll to the bottom.
Ms. Loftus, let's just show the witness another document
Government Exhibit VI-115.
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Ms. Li, what's this document?
A. This is notice of share option grant.
Q. For FMV?
A. Yes, FMV for the new GTV shares.
Q. Did you sign this document?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI-115.
MS. SHROFF: Ms. Li, did you read this document before
you met with the prosecutors?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
MS. SHROFF: In what year did you read it?
THE WITNESS: 2022.
MS. SHROFF: I have no objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-115 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: If we could publish, please.
Q. Ms. Loftus, why don't we blow up the top half while we're
waiting.
Ms. Li, at the top here it says Freedom Media Ventures
LTD and then notice of share option grant. Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. What's the date here?
A. 8th of March 2022.
Q. Whose name is listed?
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A. That's me.
Q. Beneath that it says you have been granted an option to
purchase common shares of Freedom Media Ventures LTD as
follows, and I'll skip down to the details of grant.
It says, Purchase price of 1 US Dollar of up to 10
common shares in the company.
What was the total number of shares you were being
granted, Ms. Li?
A. One million.
Q. And beneath that, how much did you have to pay to get that
one million in shares?
A. 100,000.
Q. And if we could scroll down. Did you sign this document?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever receive a countersigned copy?
A. No.
Q. Now, did you ever get FMV shares?
A. No. This new GTV stopped, so we couldn't finish this
project.
Q. What did Miles Guo say about why it stopped?
A. Because GTV being shutdown.
Q. And when did the GTV platform shutdown?
A. Around July 2021, around that time.
MS. SHROFF: Did she say 2021?
Q. If we could scroll up to the top of the document.
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A. Around 2022, sorry.
Q. Ms. Li, after new GTV shutdown, what was the next platform?
A. We call the new platform.
Q. What was AIAI?
A. AIAI is a new platform name.
Q. Who came up with that name?
A. I don't know, but this Miles Guo said in a broadcast so we
know this name.
Q. When did Miles Guo announce the new platform as AIAI?
A. Around July, August 2022.
Q. Did this new platform ever actually come into existence?
A. No, it failed.
Q. What, if anything, did Guo say about why it failed?
A. He said in the broadcast because investor think this no
good. They don't want to invest in this platform.
Q. Ms. Li, what was A15?
A. A15 is after this new platform failed. It's the next
investment project called A15.
Q. What did Guo say A15 was?
A. A15 means we can get five percent of a Gettr share, five
percent of G/Club share and five percent of Himalaya Exchange
share.
Q. You mentioned Gettr, at a high level, what was Gettr?
A. Gettr is social media platform.
Q. And to your understanding who created Gettr?
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A. Miles Guo.
Q. Ms. Li, when did A15 start or when did Guo start promoting
A15?
A. About October 2022.
Q. And what, if anything, did Guo say about why you were doing
A15 there?
A. Because AIAI project failed.
Q. Ms. Loftus, can we show the witness what's marked as
Government Exhibit VI-114.
Ms. Li, what's this document?
A. This A15's contract.
Q. Were you sent this document?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you read it carefully at the time?
A. No.
MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government
Exhibit VI-114.
MS. SHROFF: Ms. Li, did you read it at all at that
time?
THE WITNESS: No.
MS. SHROFF: And you relied on none of the information
in that document, correct?
You had all of the information in that document at
that time, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, it's not cross
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examination.
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: These questions are better for cross
examination.
MS. SHROFF: I just wanted to make sure she didn't
read it at that time.
THE COURT: So there's no objection to it being
admitted, correct?
MS. SHROFF: Well, I had the pending question, because
she didn't read it, she didn't have any access to that
information.
MR. FERGENSON: That's not a basis for admission, your
Honor.
THE COURT: The document is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-114 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor. If we could
please publish it, Ms. Loftus.
Q. Ms. Li, while we're waiting, what were the ways one could
invest in A15?
A. So they can invest use US dollar and HDO and also can
through by G/Club card.
Q. Looking at the document, you see it says subscription
documents up top, and beneath that it says Ampleforth Capital
LTD. You see that?
A. Yes.
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Q. What is Ampleforth Capital LTD?
A. This is company for receiving A15 investment money.
Q. You mentioned a few ways you could invest?
A. Yes.
Q. Which of those ways would you use Ampleforth Capital LTD?
A. Only for US dollar investment.
Q. Actually, we can take this down, Ms. Loftus.
Now, Ms. Li, you said A15 started in October 2022, how
long did A15 last?
A. Last about three months.
Q. What, if anything, did Guo say about why it stopped?
A. Not stopped, it just replaced by A10.
Q. And what did Guo say A10 was?
A. So A10 is five percent of Gettr and the five percent of
Himalaya Exchange, so no more G/Club.
Q. And what did Guo say about why there was no more G/Club in
this investment?
A. Because if they put G/Club there, so members information
need to be public, so they don't want members information being
public.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could show the witness what's marked as
Government Exhibit VI-160.
Ms. Li, just to clarify, around when did Guo start
promoting A10?
A. January 2023.
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Q. Is the exhibit on your screen now, Ms. Li?
A. Yes.
Q. What is this video?
A. This Miles Guo's broadcast.
Q. What's the date of this video?
A. 11 February 2023.
Q. Did you watch this broadcast at the time?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI-160.
MS. SHROFF: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-160 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, let's publish, and we'll
play the video.
(Media played)
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, we can stop there.
Q. Ms. Li, do you recognize the people in this video?
A. Yes.
Q. Who are they?
A. Miles Guo and Fay Fay.
Q. Who is Fay Fay?
A. Fay Fay is one of the supporters, and she's also member of
Iron Blood Group.
MR. FERGENSON: The government offers pursuant to stip
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10 the translation Government Exhibit VI-160-T.
MS. SHROFF: No objection.
THE COURT: If is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-160-T received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: If we could publish, Ms. Loftus.
Q. I'll go ahead and read the text. It says, You know this
card, ask about this project. Do you know what the concept is?
For the project of this card, the original A0 project was
called A15. A15 became A10 because five percent of G/Club
shares were lost due to you. But what did you get, you know?
Beyond the expectation of the comrades, any of you, if you
invest in A10, you'll hold the same card, which need not be
paid.
Similarly, if you use the card, you can own the same
stock. You don't have to pay anymore, right? In fact, you are
not investing in the A10 project. You are strictly speaking
investing in an enlarged version of A15. In what situation
does this put the investors of G/Club? We didn't attach
information, but you own G/Club without a cent. If I say that
I am not stupid, I'm not a fool, and I've invested one million.
And I can get a card of one million from G/Club. And I'm also
an equity owner, the identical shares. I get the shares and
card. I hold both of them without any risk.
You use to buy a pig, right? How much was the meat
per kilo? Now it's a pig that brings you a group of pigs,
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right? Whether you buy the pig feet or the pig head, you have
a group of pigs following you. Comrades, no one of you said
that you wanted to invest, but actually you're investing and
get cards for free. You take the cards and get the shares for
free. Isn't that better than A15?
And, Ms. Li, could you read the Fay Fay text?
A. Everyone is happy to get a card. Everyone is happy to get
a card.
Q. No you don't understand the core. Many people say, why did
it become A15 and then A10? That stock is, G/Club is not
profitable at present. You can only receive the five percent
annual salary. You can get it and the so-called profit in the
future. But once you get the card, it's 100 percent your
interest, and you get the shares.
I get a card of one million, as well as one million
shares. In addition, I also get the five percent. How could
such a good thing happen? You can offer a discount. There's
another thing I'll tell you. What is the most important thing
about the card? Now whether the card or the shares, you can
get both, you can own the card and you can have the shares. I
don't think many people understand the significance of G/Club
card. This is also -- and we can stop there.
Ms. Li, what do you understand Guo to be talking about
here?
A. He's talking about the A10. A10 is better than A15 because
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when you investment to A10, you also get the same amount of
G/Club card kind of for free.
Q. And what was the price of G/Club cards being offered at the
time of A10?
A. So that time there's a new -- we call its new G/Club. They
get two more level of the card. One is half million. One is
one million.
Q. So how much would you have to pay to get these cards?
A. 50 million.
MS. SHROFF: Objection to the form of the question.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
Q. Just take them one by one. How much would you have to pay
to get those two new cards?
A. So for half million card, you need to pay half million, but
you also get A10 half million shares. If one million card, you
get one million card G/Club card, you get the same A10 share
for one million.
THE COURT: One million what?
THE WITNESS: One million of A10 shares if you buy one
million card; or you buy one million A10 shares, you can get
the one million G/Club card for free.
Q. So to participate in A10 as an investor, what were the ways
you could do that?
A. So they also have three ways. Yes, you can have three
ways. You can pay US dollar. You can pay by HDO. You can buy
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G/Club card.
Q. Ms. Li, at the time of A10, where would you send money,
send US dollars to buy a G/Club card?
A. To Abu Dhabi.
Q. Why would you send it to Abu Dhabi?
A. Because new G/Club company establish in Abu Dhabi.
Q. And around when was this new G/Club company established in
Abu Dhabi?
A. Around end of 2022.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could show the witness what's marked as
Government Exhibit VI-189.
Ms. Li, what's this video?
A. It's Miles Guo's broadcast.
Q. What was the date of this broadcast?
A. 8th of February 2023.
Q. Did you watch this broadcast at the time?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI-189.
MS. SHROFF: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-189 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus let's publish and play
some.
(Media played)
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MR. FERGENSON: We can pause there. The government
offers the translations Government Exhibit VI-189-T.
MS. SHROFF: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-189-T received in evidence)
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Can you please publish that, Ms. Loftus. We can zoom in on
the text. I'll go ahead and read the text, Ms. Li.
It says, The card project. Bear in mind, the new card
has nothing to do with the original G/Club. It is a completely
independent G/Club company established in Abu Dhabi, but it is
also a G/Club of the whistleblowing revolution, and it has the
same benefits and functions. It has two kinds. The half a
million card and the one million card. It will be on shelf in
three weeks, about three weeks, three weeks to four weeks. The
half a million card and the one million card.
All the discounts enjoyed by G Fashion, your benefits
and any future honors of G/Clubs, including the position in the
new China alliance, including the one-to-one shares of A10 if
you buy the card are all the same with the card and the share.
Similarly, if you invest in A10, you are unconditionally
receive a card with the same amount. Is it generous enough? It
is impossible that half of Brother Seven say this today, and
another half of me go to Japan to see the grassroots brother,
or half of me went to Los Angeles to see the Mr. Li. It is
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impossible. I must go to Japan in my whole flash or go to Los
Angeles in my whole flash because G/Club and A10 are
inseparable.
So brothers and sisters, please remember that buying
the card means owning the A10 project with two, five percent
stakes, and buying the stake means automatically owning the
card. It's just like you have two doors to go home. Either you
enter the front door or the back door, you will still back
home. It is so simple. It is not just entering the front door
and the back door, walking through the Da-guo card of the
G/Club or walking through the front door are all the same.
Ms. Li, what did you understand him to be referring to
here?
A. So here Miles Guo introduce a new G/Club company in Abu
Dhabi under the two new level of the G/Club, the membership,
which is half million and one million, and also the
relationship with G/Club card and A10 project, so you can get
both.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we can show the witness what's marked as
Government Exhibit VI-190.
Ms. Li, what's this video?
A. This Miles Guo's broadcast.
Q. Is this another clip from the same broadcast?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government
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Exhibit VI-190.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MS. SHROFF: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-190 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: We can play a little bit, Ms. Loftus.
(Media played)
MR. FERGENSON: The government offers the translation
Government Exhibit VI-190-T.
MS. SHROFF: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-190-T received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Can you please publish that.
Q. I'll read the translation. Those who need to replenish
frozen funds should make payments to the SEC for the frozen
funds. Of course, there are rewards for the investors for
sure. Now as long as you invest in the A10 project, you
replenish original SEC frozen funds. You make up the Phoenix
frozen funds or any replenishment. There will be the same
reward, the same reward.
And everyone remembers that in all this process,
including many new investors who are now investing in the A10
project, the incentive mechanism in the intermediary of each
farm needs to see 3.5 percent, 5.5. percent and 7.5 percent.
For anyone who bring new fellow fighters in, there
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will be incentive for them. There are rewards of 3.5 percent,
5.5 and 7.5 percent. How you allocate is your own matter. You
can allocate with your parties, but these awards can be
immediately redeemed.
Ms. Li, what's your understanding of what Guo is
talking about here?
A. He's talking about the incentive if you invest A10 or
reinvestment, make reinvestment so you can get the incentive of
H Coin.
Q. When he refers to frozen funds, what did you understand
that to be referring to?
A. the SEC is for the first GTV private placement. If you
receive the SEC refund, you can reinvestment; or if you haven't
received the refund, you still can pay, repay the investment
early.
Q. When it refers to the Phoenix frozen funds, what's your
understanding of what that is?
A. Phoenix farm loan program.
Q. Who is the leader of the Phoenix farm?
A. Sara.
Q. What's her last name?
A. Sara Wei.
Q. Do you recall what the Phoenix farm company was?
A. I don't know.
Q. We can take that down, Ms. Loftus.
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Ms. Li, you said earlier that one of the ways you
could invest in A10 was HDO, right?
A. Yes.
Q. At the time of A10, could supporters send money directly to
the Himalaya Exchange?
A. No, that time Himalaya Exchange bank account is been
seized.
Q. How would people buy A10 shares using HDO then?
A. So every farm will help their member to buy HDO to invest
to A10. So there's two ways to buy HDO with farms help. So
farm will record the members who want to buy HDO and who want
to sell HDO and match them together so they can do the deal get
HDO.
And another way is they can send the money to the farm
company, and the farm company will send it to the headquarter
company and get HDO from FMV, then farm will send HDO back to
the supporters.
Q. You mentioned getting HDO from FMV, was that your
understanding to be the same FMV account where the lockup coins
went?
A. Yes, same.
Q. And getting HDO, was that like a wire transfer of US
dollars, or is that just on the Himalaya Exchange?
I can withdraw. How would to your understanding at
that time FMV transfer HDO to the farm?
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A. Through Himalaya Exchange account.
Q. Ms. Li, at that time, at the time of A10, could you or
anyone redeem HDO for US dollars from the Himalaya Exchange?
A. No.
Q. Putting aside HDO, where would real US dollars go?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
MR. FERGENSON: Withdrawn.
Q. Where would US dollars go?
A. Would go to Miles Guo headquarter companies.
Q. Did you help facilitate some of those transfers, Ms. Li?
A. Yes.
Q. Which headquarter companies did you send transfers to?
A. Gettr, G Fashion, G/Club.
Q. Where was the G/Club account you sent money to?
A. In Abu Dhabi.
Q. Which of your companies did you use to make those
transfers?
A. HAA Group.
Q. Ms. Loftus, can we show the witness Government Exhibit
VI-113.
Ms. Li, what's this document?
A. This my payment, bank payment statement.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI-113.
MS. SHROFF: We have an objection.
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THE COURT: You do have an objection. Step up,
please.
(Continued on next page)
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(At the sidebar)
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, it's a foreign bank account.
It's not certified. There is no stamp on it, and it's not
properly admissible.
THE COURT: Isn't a business record of her farm?
MS. SHROFF: It's not a business record without there
being some level of certification. There's no certification
whatsoever.
MR. FERGENSON: The witness said what it is, your
Honor. We don't need a certification. We have a live witness
who said this is my bank transfer record. That's 901
authentication.
MR. KAMARAJU: That doesn't admit a business record.
THE COURT: When she says "mine," what does she mean?
MR. FERGENSON: It's the record of the transfer she
sent to Gettr. We can lay a foundation that this was a
business record of her HAA company.
MS. SHROFF: She's not the proper witness to lay a
business record foundation.
MR. FERGENSON: It's her company.
MS. SHROFF: Sir, could you let me finish.
THE COURT: She was the person who was handling the
business transaction?
MS. SHROFF: She's still not the custodian of the
records. The custodian of the records is the bank. The bank
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needs to certify the records in some way, shape or form. The
bank records are otherwise hearsay and are not properly
admissible. Mr. Kamaraju, you can chip in if you want.
MR. KAMARAJU: I was going to say, your Honor, if
they're trying to admit it as a business record for the truth
of the matter that it's a wire transfer or anything else, then
the proper foundation is that it's an ordinary course,
regularly conducted, made at the time. Those are the elements
of a business record. Every business record is authenticated
by answering those four questions. So I don't think she can do
that for the bank obviously, and I don't know how she can do
that for one transaction for her company.
MR. FERGENSON: If I may, your Honor. I'm happy to
lay a foundation that this is a business record of HAA, her
company, she created, the only person who ran it, and it's a
bank record that is part of HAA's business records.
MS. SHROFF: It is not HAA's business record. It is a
business record of the bank.
MR. FERGENSON: That's wrong.
MS. SHROFF: If HAA kept records and generated records
that it kept in the ordinary course of business, those records
she could testify to as the custodian of HAA. According to
you, any Tom, Dick and Harry off the street can walk in and say
these are Chase business records. Yeah, I got them via email.
I as the custodian of Chase can therefore put them in as an
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exception to the hearsay rule. That is not what the exception
of the hearsay rule was created for.
MR. FERGENSON: If I may, your Honor.
THE COURT: If you just allow him to speak. One
second. Go ahead.
MR. FERGENSON: If I may say, your Honor. That's not
the way the business record's rule works. The Second Circuit
has long adopted what's called the adoptive business records
rule, which means if you have an accounting firm and you
receive bank account statements, and those are part of your
business records, even if they're made by the bank, they are
adopted and part of your own business's business records. That
is clear black letter law in the Second Circuit.
MR. KAMARAJU: You can have a business record that is
a record that a business receives. But even then, you still
have to lay the same foundation that in the ordinary course of
business, regularly conducted business, all the same business
records requirements apply. That's all I'm saying.
THE COURT: All right. So you're going to lay a
foundation.
MR. FERGENSON: I'll lay a foundation.
THE COURT: The objection is overruled.
(Continued on next page)
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(In open court)
THE COURT: You may continue.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, you testified earlier that you sent transfers using
HAA?
A. Yeah.
Q. Who created HAA?
A. Me.
Q. Who controlled HAA?
A. Me.
Q. Did you have knowledge of its operations?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you execute the wire here on behalf of HAA?
A. Yes.
Q. And as part of your work with HAA, did you receive bank
records about wire transfers?
A. Yes.
Q. Was it part of your regular business controlling HAA to
receive and maintain those bank records?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI-113.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-113 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Please publish.
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Q. Ms. Li, on the top left, whose name is under authorizer
name?
A. It's me.
Q. What was the date of this wire transfer?
A. 3rd of March 2023.
Q. How much did you send on March 3, 2023?
A. About 640,000 US dollar.
Q. Where did you send it?
A. To Gettr.
Q. Is that the beneficiary listed there?
A. Yes, Gettr USA, Inc.
Q. And what was the address for Gettr?
A. Number 3 Columbus Circle, floor 20, New York, New York
10019.
Q. And scrolling, looking down a little bit, who is the
remitter?
A. HAA Group PTY. That's my company.
Q. Instructions to beneficiary it says payment, who entered
those instructions?
A. It's me.
Q. Why did you put payment?
A. Because this is to buy the HDO, the payment for buying
purchase HDO.
Q. That's what you understood it was?
A. Yeah.
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1473
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
Q. Ms. Loftus, can we show the witness what's marked as
Government Exhibit VI-106.
Ms. Li, is this another bank record you received for
HAA?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI-106.
MS. SHROFF: Same objection as before, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-106 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: We can publish, please.
Q. While we're waiting, Ms. Li, is this another transfer from
HAA?
A. Yes.
Q. What was the date of this transfer?
A. 17 of February 2023.
Q. How much did you send?
A. About 500,000 US dollars.
Q. Where did you send the $500,000?
A. GFNY Inc. That's G Fashion company.
Q. What is the address of GFNY, Inc.?
A. 3 Columbus Circ. Floor 20, New York, New York 10019-8760.
Q. That's the same address as Gettr?
A. Yeah.
Q. Ms. Li, focusing on the value date listed here, the date on
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1474
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
the page, the first two numbers, which one on this document is
the month and which one is the day?
A. 17th, 17, that's the date, 02 is the month, Feb.
Q. And where were you when you were sending this wire
transfer? What country were you in?
A. In Australia.
Q. Looking down towards remitter, who is the remitter?
A. HAA Group PTY, that's my company.
Q. And what were the instructions to beneficiary?
A. HDO payment.
Q. Why did you put HDO payment?
A. Because it's for purchase HDO.
Q. That's what you understood it to be?
A. Yeah.
Q. If we could show the witness what's marked as Government
Exhibit VI-107.
Ms. Li, is this another bank record you received as
part of your work with HAA Group?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI-107.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, there's an objection, and I
just direct the Court to the top right-hand side of the
document.
THE COURT: I understand the objection, and you're
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
going to lay the foundation, correct?
MS. SHROFF: It is, your Honor.
Q. Did you receive bank records as part of your work with HAA
Group?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you receive those records in the normal course of
HAA's business?
A. This one account sent it to me.
Q. Who sent it to you? Who sent you this --
A. Wang Kan.
Q. Who is Wang Kan?
A. Wang Kan is in charge of the Alliance finance department.
Q. Was he a member of the Alliance?
A. Yes.
Q. And you said he was in the finance department?
A. Yes.
Q. Who controlled the Alliance?
A. Miles Guo.
MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government
Exhibit VI-107.
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: Admitted. I understand the continuing
objection.
(Government's Exhibit VI-107 received in evidence)
BY MR. FERGENSON:
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
Q. Can we publish it, please.
Now, Ms. Li, we looked at earlier a transfer to, just
a moment ago, a transfer to GFNY. What is this record reflect
after your transfer to GFNY?
A. About two months later GFNY refund the money back to me.
Q. What happened of note in between those two months?
A. Miles Guo and Yvette Wang arrested.
Q. Ms. Li, just focusing you, the credit amount back is
$501,977,000. Is that the same amount you sent to GFNY?
A. Yes.
Q. And you got this back on April 17, 2023?
A. Yes, about two months later.
Q. Ms. Li, what did you then do with the money that was sent
back from GFNY?
A. So I been told to send it to G/Club ME instead.
Q. Where was the G/Club ME bank account?
A. In Abu Dhabi.
Q. If we can show the witness what's marked as Government
Exhibit VI-108.
Ms. Li, is this a bank record from one of HAA's bank
accounts?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI-108.
MS. SHROFF: Same objection, your Honor.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
THE COURT: If you would ask some foundational
questions.
Q. Did you control HAA?
A. Yes, I'm the director.
Q. And did you, as part of HAA's business, did you send wire
transfers?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you receive copies of transfer records as part of HAA's
business?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you keep and maintain those records as part of your
normal course of business with HAA?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI-108.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-108 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Can we publish, please.
THE COURT: Mr. Fergenson, you can ask with regard to
future business records whether a given record is a business
record like the others that was kept in the ordinary course of
business.
MR. FERGENSON: Understood. Thank you, your Honor.
MR. KAMARAJU: Your Honor, I'm sorry. I believe he
should also ask who he received the record from.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may we please have a sidebar?
THE COURT: Okay.
(Continued on next page)
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
(At the sidebar)
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I renew my objection
especially as to 107. The witness testified she did not get
that record from a bank. She did not get it from anybody other
than an individual associated with the Alliance. That record
was not properly received as a business record. One, it's not
sent by a bank; and two, it's not maintained in the ordinary
course of business.
THE COURT: My understanding is that it was sent by a
finance officer within the Guo world. Am I correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Correct.
MS. SHROFF: It's sent by an individual who's not in a
bank, sending a record maintained by a bank which is not this
bank that she does business with, which is I think the NAB.
The bank at issue in 107 is called the NAT Bank. It is not a
bank with which she maintains any business relationship. The
document doesn't come to her from a bank. There's no testimony
that the person who's receiving that bank account and then
giving it to her has maintained it in the ordinary course of
business. There's simply no testimony to that effect. For
those reasons, I would ask the Court to strike the testimony
pertaining to that particular exhibit. It is different from
the others that the Court admitted.
MR. FERGENSON: We think there's a sufficient
foundation for the business record admission. We also think
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
there's a sufficient foundation for an agent statement. Guo
controlled the Alliance in the finance department. This guy
works in the finance department. He sent it to Ms. Li, and
either way it comes in. It's properly admitted.
THE COURT: To the extent that she received this
business record in the ordinary course of business and
maintained it, it comes in.
(Continued on next page)
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1481
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
(In open court)
THE COURT: You may continue.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, what's the date of this transfer?
A. 3rd of May 2023.
Q. So about two weeks after you got the refund back from GFNY?
A. Yes.
Q. How much was this transfer?
A. 500,000 US dollar.
Q. Is that the same amount you had sent to GFNY?
A. Yes.
Q. Where did you send this?
A. G/Clubs Me Limited.
Q. And what was the address of G/Clubs ME Limited?
A. Unit 46 AL Khatem, Abu Dhabi UAE, United Arab Emirates.
Q. Who's the remitter?
A. HAA Group PTY.
Q. Ms. Loftus, can we show the witness what's marked as
Government Exhibit VI-109.
Ms. Li, is this another bank record that's a business
record you received for HAA?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI-109.
MS. SHROFF: Same objection.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
THE COURT: It's admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-109 received in evidence)
THE COURT: I understand it's an ongoing objection.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Can we please publish, Ms. Ms. Loftus. Ms. Loftus, if we
can blow it up again to make it easier to read. Thank you.
What's the date of this transfer, Ms. Li?
A. 9th of May 2023.
Q. About six days after the first G/Club ME transfer?
A. Yes.
Q. How much did you send on May 9, 2023?
A. About 680,000 US dollar.
Q. Where did you send it?
A. To G/Clubs ME Limited.
Q. Is that the same Abu Dhabi UAE address?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, where did this roughly $680,000 come from?
A. It's from other farms who want to buy HDO.
Q. Ms. Li, at the time you sent these funds, was there a
contract with -- going back to the first, was there a contract
with Gettr?
A. No.
Q. Was there a contract with GFNY?
A. No.
MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor. Contract between
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
whom and whom.
Q. Was there any contract with Gettr and you?
A. No.
Q. Was there any contract with GFNY?
A. No.
Q. And at the time you sent this money to G/Clubs ME, both
transfers, was there a contract with G/Clubs ME and you or your
entities at that time?
A. No.
THE COURT: The objection is overruled.
Q. Ms. Li, after you sent the roughly $1 million to G/Clubs ME
in Abu Dhabi, what happened after that?
A. After a few months later, I received a loan contract.
Q. Ms. Loftus can we show the witness what's marked as
Government Exhibit VI-110.
Ms. Li, is this the loan contract?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI-110.
THE COURT: No objection?
MS. SHROFF: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI-110 received in evidence)
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. If we could publish. Ms. Loftus, I ask you to zoom out and
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1484
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
if you could zoom in on the top half.
Ms. Li, at the top it says loan agreement between
G/Club ME Limited and HAA Group PTY Limited. Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. It says, This loan agreement is made on the 20th day of
February 2023, the effective date.
Did you sign this agreement on that, on February 20,
2023?
A. No.
Q. Had you been sent this agreement as of February 20, 2023?
A. No.
Q. What was the date February 20, 2023?
What's the significance of that date if you recall?
A. Nothing.
Q. Ms. Li, beneath that it says, Whereas the borrower has
requested a loan from the lender in the amount of euro
1,044,977.69 defined as the loan.
Ms. Li, what's the significance, if any, to you of
euro there?
A. Because they don't want to use US dollar.
Q. What's your understanding of why they didn't want to use US
dollar?
A. Because US dollar will be traced.
Q. Traced by whom?
A. Traced by US government.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
Q. If we could scroll down please, Ms. Loftus, and go to page
four. If we could zoom on the signatures.
Ms. Li, who signed this loan agreement?
A. Me and another two.
Q. Who are the other two?
Who are the people who signed it on behalf of G/Club
ME?
A. One is the director called Ingrid Chao. Another is manager
of the G/Club is Kai De Wang.
Q. And, Ms. Li, if you can try and speak up, please.
Who was Ingrid Chao?
A. Ingrid Chao is a director of new G/Club.
Q. Was she a supporter?
A. Yes, one of the supporters. The name is the Saraca.
Q. Remind us, was Wang Kan a supporter?
A. Wang Kan also is supporter, and he in charge of the
Alliance finance department.
Q. Ms. Li, you explained earlier these transfers were to --
you understood these transfers were to buy HDO, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Was the money you sent to G/Clubs ME a loan?
A. No.
Q. Why did you sign this loan agreement?
A. Because the Alliance ask me to sign so I have to sign with
them.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
Q. Please keep your voice up.
A. So I have to sign with them because the Alliance ask me to
sign.
Q. We can take that down, Ms. Loftus.
Ms. Li, what, if anything, happened after you signed
this loan agreement with G/Clubs ME?
A. So few months after that, they ask me to sign another loan
writeoff document.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, objection to the day.
THE COURT: Overruled.
Q. Who asked you to sign the writeoff?
A. Lao Ban Zhang.
Q. Who is Lao Ban Zhang?
A. Lao Ban Zhang is one of the supporters.
Q. For the court reporter's benefit, could you spell that
name, please?
A. Lao, L-A-O, Ban Zhang, B-A-N-Z-H-A-N-G.
Q. What was his role in the movement?
A. He use to be the chairman of the Himalaya Alliance and the
leader of New Zealand farm and Iron Blood Group member.
MS. SHROFF: I'm sorry. We couldn't hear what she
said.
A. He is ex-chairman of Himalaya Alliance and ex-leader of New
Zealand farm and one of the Iron Blood Group member.
Q. At the time you -- I'm sorry, after you received the
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
writeoff request, what did you do?
A. I signed.
Q. You said earlier it wasn't a loan, why did you sign this
writeoff request?
A. Because I have to sign the Alliance requirement.
Q. Ms. Li, generally speaking what kind of protest, if any,
did supporters participate in?
A. The protest is protest for CCP spy and traitors.
Q. Who called them CCP spies and traitors?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. Did you ever participate yourself in these protest?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever see these protest?
A. Yes.
Q. How did you see them?
A. From broadcast.
Q. What did the protestors do at the protest you watched at a
high level?
A. Sorry.
Q. In the protests you watched broadcast of, what were the
protestors doing?
A. They would go to their house, around the house, and use the
sign and board, and also some information send, it to the local
communities, say they are the spy in their community.
Q. Have you seen broadcast where people got hurt?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
A. Yes.
Q. How many?
A. Two incident.
Q. What was the first incident?
A. First incident was one protestor punched the CCP spy.
Q. Where was he punched?
A. Face.
Q. What was the second incident?
A. Similar, it's one of the protestors punched the CCP spy's
friend.
Q. Where was that person punched?
A. Eyes.
Q. What, if anything, did Guo say about these incidents?
A. He said well done.
Q. Well done?
A. Mm hm.
Q. Where did he say that?
A. In the group chat.
Q. Do you know if these protestors were volunteered or paid?
A. Paid.
Q. How were they paid?
A. They paid by Rule of Law Foundation.
Q. How much were they paid?
A. About 200 US dollar per day.
Q. How were these $200 payments made?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
A. So Rule of Law Foundation will send it to the farm leader
or the protestor who in charge, and then they will give to
every participant protestor.
Q. Who would pick the targets of the protest?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. How do you know that?
A. Because he said in the broadcast.
Q. What was the black list?
A. Black list is the member of the farm, if they start
publish, criticize Alliance or New Federal State of China or
Miles Guo, they will become CCP and a traitor, so their name go
to black list.
Q. What happened to some of the people on the black list?
A. Some of their personal information will be post online.
Q. Where would that personal information come from?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: If you know.
MS. SHROFF: Lacks personal knowledge.
THE COURT: If you happen to know where the personal
information came from, you may answer.
A. From Miles Guo.
Q. How do you know that?
A. He sometime send the message in the group.
Q. What kind of group?
A. The farm alliance group.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
Q. What, if anything, did Guo say to do with the personal
information?
A. So we can use to post it online and do broadcast, do some
broadcast program.
Q. Did there come a time when protestors protested --
withdrawn.
Did there come a time when supporters protested the
SEC?
A. Yes.
Q. Around when?
A. 2022.
Q. Why were people protesting the SEC?
A. Because Miles Guo said our invest money been seized by SEC,
so we need to ask SEC to compensate us.
Q. What, if anything, did Miles Guo say about the SEC and the
CCP?
A. He said SEC is infiltrated by CCP.
Q. At the time did you believe that?
A. Yes.
Q. Did there come a time when a bankruptcy trustee was
protested?
A. Yes.
Q. What was the trustee's name. If you know, are you able to
spell that name?
A. Luc Despins, L-U-C, D-E-P-I-N-S.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO2 Ya Li - Direct
Q. Whose bankruptcy was Mr. Despins the trustee for?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. Why were supporters protesting the bankruptcy trustee?
A. Because Miles Guo said he's a CCP spy and the DOJ also
infiltrated by CCP.
Q. At the time did you believe that?
A. Yes.
Q. How long were the trustee protest?
A. For 90 days.
Q. Did you watch broadcast for those protest?
A. Yes.
THE COURT: It's 11:30, so it's time for our break.
Remember that you're not permitted to discuss the case amongst
yourselves. You're not permitted to allow anyone to discuss
the case in your presence. Don't watch, read or listen to
anything concerning anything that has to do with this case.
THE LAW CLERK: Jury exiting.
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: Please be seated. Is there anything
before we return at noon?
MR. FERGENSON: Not from the government.
MR. KAMARAJU: Not from us, your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay.
(Recess)
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O661GUO3 Ya Li - Direct
AFTERNOON SESSION
12:00 p.m.
THE COURT: Please be seated and please have the
jurors brought in.
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Please be seated.
Remember, Ms. Li, that you're still under oath. You
are still under oath.
Go ahead.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, when we stopped for the break, we were discussing
the protests of the bankruptcy trustee. Do you recall that?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, can we show the witness
what's marked as Government Exhibit VI194.
Q. Ms. Li, is this an image from one of the broadcasts you
watched?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI194.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MS. SHROFF: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI194 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Could we publish, please.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O661GUO3 Ya Li - Direct
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, I want to focus you on the top left.
MR. FERGENSON: And Ms. Loftus, if we could zoom in on
the top left poster, please.
Q. Ms. Li, can you read the text on that poster.
A. "Take Down The CCP. Luc A. Despins. CCP's Running Dog."
Q. And just to remind us, who is Luc A. Despins?
A. He is the trustee for Miles Guo's bankruptcy case.
Q. What's your understanding of what "CCP's Running Dog"
means?
A. It's CCP's party——controlled by the CCP, work for CCP.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, we can zoom out. And zoom
in on the top middle.
Q. Ms. Li, do you know who Neil A. Torpey is?
A. No.
MR. FERGENSON: You could zoom out. And then on the
far right top.
Q. Ms. Li, do you know who's pictured here?
A. No.
Q. Are you able to read the text on that poster?
A. "Supporters of Genocide. CCP's Running Dog. Paul
Hastings."
Q. What's Paul Hastings?
A. This lawyer, the legal firm for Miles Guo's bankruptcy
case.
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Q. Is that where Mr. Despins works?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: If we could zoom out.
Q. Now, Ms. Li, was the trustee protested at one location or
more than one location?
A. More than one location.
Q. This is one. Where else was the trustee protested?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Was there another location?
THE WITNESS: His house.
THE COURT: Overruled.
Q. Was anyone related to the trustee also protested?
A. Yes.
Q. Who?
A. His wife.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, we can take this down for
now.
Q. And in addition to the trustee and his wife, were there
protests of anyone else involved in Miles Guo's bankruptcy?
A. Yes, the biggest creditor named——the company name is Pax.
Q. Can you spell that, please, Ms. Li.
A. P-A-X.
Q. And is Pax a person or a company?
A. A company's name.
Q. What kind of company?
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A. It's a fund.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. It's a——like investment fund.
Q. What was Pax's role in Miles Guo's bankruptcy?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: Would you step up, please.
(Continued on next page)
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(At the sidebar)
THE COURT: Does the witness have firsthand knowledge
of the bankruptcy proceedings?
MR. FERGENSON: Yes. She followed it, and I just
wanted to talk about it. I'm happy to rephrase and ask:
"What's your understanding of Pax's role in the bankruptcy?"
MR. KAMARAJU: Sorry. When you say she followed it,
you mean like she read about it online?
MR. FERGENSON: Correct.
MR. KAMARAJU: Isn't that all based on hearsay?
MR. FERGENSON: Well, it's Miles Guo talking about it.
THE COURT: So you can ask what he said about it.
(Continued on next page)
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(In open court)
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, did Miles Guo talk about his bankruptcy in
broadcasts?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you watch those broadcasts?
A. Yes.
Q. What's your understanding from watching those broadcasts of
Pax's role in Miles Guo's bankruptcy?
MS. SHROFF: Objection. We just——
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. SHROFF: Thank you.
THE COURT: So the question should be whether Mr. Guo
said something about Pax.
Q. What did Mr. Guo say Pax's role was in his bankruptcy?
A. It's biggest creditor.
MS. SHROFF: I'll move to strike, your Honor. That's
nonresponsive.
THE COURT: Overruled. Go ahead.
Q. Who at Pax was protested, Ms. Li?
A. The director of the Pax, Shan Wenjian.
Q. Could you spell that name, please.
A. S-H-A-N, Shan, Wenjian, W-E-N-J-I-A-N.
Q. Was anyone else associated with Pax protested?
A. Yes.
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Q. Who?
A. Shan Wenjian's daughter and son.
Q. And were his children in school or out of school at that
time?
A. The daughter is in university.
Q. And why were Pax and its chairman's children protested
with——I'm sorry. Go ahead.
A. Because Miles Guo said that Shan Wenjian is CCP spy.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could publish again
Government Exhibit VI194. If we could blow up the bottom left.
Q. Ms. Li, what's the text on this poster?
A. "Extortionist Appointed By DOJ."
Q. What, if anything, did Guo say about the DOJ around this
time?
A. DOJ's been weaponized by the CCP, infiltrated by CCP.
Q. At the time did you believe that?
A. Yes.
Q. Did there come a time when you received a subpoena from the
bankruptcy trustee?
A. Yes.
Q. Around when was that?
A. Around 20——May of 2022.
Q. What, if any, conversations did you have with Miles Guo
about that subpoena?
A. Miles Guo said we should throw it in the rubbish bin.
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Q. Throw what in the rubbish bin?
A. Throw the subpoena from trustee, throw the subpoena from
trustee.
Q. From the bankruptcy trustee?
A. Yes.
Q. And after Miles Guo said you should throw the subpoena in
the rubbish bin, what did you do?
A. I throw it away.
Q. Why did you do that?
A. Because that time I believed Miles Guo, said Luc Despins is
CCP spy.
MR. FERGENSON: You can take that down, Ms. Loftus.
Q. Ms. Li, are you still a follower of Miles Guo?
A. No. I left.
Q. Was there one thing or more than one thing that led to you
no longer following Miles Guo?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained. "What led you to."
Q. Ms. Li, what was the first thing that led you to stop
following Miles Guo?
MS. SHROFF: Objection. It assumes facts not in
evidence.
THE COURT: Just "what led you to," then you can say
"was there anything else."
Q. What led you to have doubts about Miles Guo?
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A. 15th of March 2023, Miles Guo and Yvette Wang were
arrested.
Q. After they were arrested, did you leave the movement
completely?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. Because that time I still believed.
Q. Still believed what?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. Ms. Li, prior to Miles Guo's arrest, what, if any,
instructions did you receive regarding your phones from Miles
Guo?
A. We should delete.
MS. SHROFF: Objection as to time frame. From 2017 to
2023? Is there a time frame at all?
THE COURT: Add a time frame.
Q. Around when did you get these instructions about your
phone?
A. 2022.
Q. What did Guo tell you to do about your phones?
A. To delete the information, change the numbers. Delete
information, change numbers.
Q. What did he say?
A. Because CCP can hack us, our phone.
Q. And did Guo tell you this himself or through an
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intermediary?
A. To myself.
Q. And where did he say that?
A. Where.
Q. What——
A. In the WhatsApp chat.
Q. Did he explain why he wanted you to delete the information
from your phones?
A. Because CCP's hacking my phone.
Q. At the time did you believe that was the reason why?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you still believe that's why he asked you to do that?
A. Now I don't believe.
Q. Now, Ms. Li, after Guo's arrest, what, if anything, were
you told to do with your phones after Guo's arrest?
A. Yes——
MS. SHROFF: Objection. By whom?
Q. Were you told to do anything by an alliance member?
A. Yes.
Q. Who?
A. Brother Long Island Chang Dao.
Q. What did Chang Dao tell you to do?
A. Chang Dao said: Next week, FBI going to arrest us; you
need to delete all the information.
Q. Did you delete information?
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A. I delete most of them and I keep some direct message with
Miles Guo.
Q. Were you worried about being arrested?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: "Did you have any concerns?" That's the
question.
Q. Did you have any concerns about being arrested?
A. Yes.
Q. Why were you concerned about being arrested?
A. Because the DOJ being infiltrated by CCP so they use FBI to
arrest us.
Q. At the time did you believe that?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you still believe that today?
A. No.
Q. Ms. Li, after Miles Guo's arrest, what was the next thing,
if any, that caused you to have doubts?
A. On the Mahwah mansion.
Q. When you say Mahwah mansion, what are you referring to?
A. There's a property Miles Guo bought for secret base for
New——New Federal State of China.
Q. And who said Miles Guo bought that property as a secret
base for the NFSC?
A. Brother Long Island Chang Dao.
Q. Did he say that before Miles Guo's arrest or after Miles
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Guo's arrest?
A. After.
Q. What was——and Ms. Li, where did he say that?
A. In the broadcast.
Q. Chang Dao did?
A. Yeah.
Q. Did you watch that broadcast?
A. Yes.
Q. What was your reaction to hearing Miles Guo bought this
Mahwah property as a secret base for the NFSC?
MS. SHROFF: Objection. That is not the testimony.
The testimony was that Long Island David said that.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. What was your reaction to Chang Dao saying that Miles Guo
bought the property as a secret NFSC base?
A. I have doubts because I never heard about it.
Q. When did you first hear about this secret base?
A. From the document, the government document.
Q. All right. Ms. Loftus——and I'm sorry. When did you hear
Chang Dao first say "secret base"?
A. In March 2023, in Chang Dao's broadcast.
MR. FERGENSON: All right. Ms. Loftus, if we could
show the witness just side by side what's marked as Government
Exhibits VI28 and 29.
Q. Ms. Li, what are these exhibits?
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A. This Miles Guo's voice message. He asked me to translate
and send it to his lawyer in end of 2021.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibits
VI28 and VI29.
THE COURT: No objection?
MS. SHROFF: No, your Honor, no objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibits VI28 and VI29 received in
evidence).
Q. Ms. Li, as a general matter, what was he asking you——what
was the subject of what he was asking you to translate?
A. So translate to his lawyer, his Family Fund going to buy a
property and in——there's a price and some conditions, so they
want to finish this purchase transaction.
MR. FERGENSON: And I guess I'll just——maybe we can
just pull up the English, GX VI29.
Q. All right. And Ms. Li, and just to be clear on what this
is, where did the words that are written on this page, where
did those words come from?
A. From Miles Guo's voice message.
Q. And then did you translate that into English?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Now, and after you translated it, what did you do
with it?
A. I sent back to Miles Guo.
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Q. All right. So now looking at the exhibit, at the top it
says, "Dear Anron." Who did you understand Anron to be?
A. Anron is——Anron Mitchell is one of Miles Guo's lawyer.
Q. And I'll go ahead and read the text.
"I have just informed my family members about the
property today, and also told them that the owner can reduce
the price from $33 million to $28 million. Many of them know
about this house and are very interested in buying it as an
investment for the fund where we can host our family to live
there, or sometimes we may also convert it to host our club
members."
I'll keep going.
"I want to reiterate the following key points about
this offer:
"A. The Family Fund offering the final price is
$26 million to close this deal ASAP, ASAP, with the fund.
Please contact William, and use that fund to buy this. You can
make a one-time payment, sign the contract as soon as
possible."
Ms. Li, when you received and translated this message
from Miles Guo, who did you understand would use this property?
A. Miles Guo's family.
Q. Why was that your understanding?
A. Because the family member agreed to buy this property and
use his Family Fund, the money from the Family Fund.
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Q. When he said——where it says, "where we can host our family
to live there," what did you understand that to mean?
A. So their family members can live there.
Q. And when he said, "sometimes we may also convert it to host
our club members," what did you understand that to mean?
A. So G/CLUBS members can use it sometimes.
Q. Did you expect to be able to go to this property?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. Because it's his family house.
Q. Focusing on the second paragraph, about how the Family Fund
offering the final price is $26 million, what was your
understanding of where the money to buy this property was
coming from, according to this?
A. From his Family Fund.
Q. What was your understanding of what Guo's Family Fund was?
A. It's one of his——his entity.
Q. And what, if anything, did Guo say about his Family Fund?
A. His Family Fund have a lot of money.
Q. By the way, Ms. Li, did Guo ever discuss a red Lamborghini
in the broadcasts?
A. Yes.
Q. What did he say about how that red Lamborghini was paid
for?
A. No.
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Q. Sorry. What, if anything, did he say about how that
Lamborghini was paid for?
A. Paid by Family Fund. His Family Fund reward him.
Q. Reward him with what?
A. Reward him for his hard working.
Q. And what did they give him as a reward?
A. That Lamborghini car.
Q. Ms. Li, this has a reference to William. What's your
understanding of who William is?
A. William is William Je.
Q. Ms. Li, did you think the money to buy this property was
coming from G/CLUBS?
A. No.
Q. Did you think the money to buy this property was Alliance
money?
A. No.
Q. Did you think it was investor money?
A. No.
Q. What, if anything, did Guo tell you about using supporter
money to buy this property?
A. Never use supporters' money buy anything, even a meal.
Q. If you had known that this property was being bought with
investor money, would you have facilitated investments by your
farm members?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor.
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A. No.
MS. SHROFF: I move to strike, and I'm happy to have a
sidebar on this matter.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
Q. If you had known, Ms. Li, that this property was being
purchased with investor money, would you have facilitated——
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, the question assumes facts
that are not in evidence.
THE COURT: I've overruled the objection.
Q. Ms. Li, if you had known that this property was being
purchased with investor money, would you have facilitated
investments by your farm members?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. Because our investment is for taking down the CCP, not for
his family members or for his personal luxury life. No.
Q. Ms. Li, does buying a multimillion-dollar house,
$26 million house, in your view, help fight the CCP?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. No.
Q. Does buying a red Lamborghini, in your view, help fight the
CCP?
MS. SHROFF: Same objection.
A. No.
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THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, let's go to the next page,
please.
Actually, I'm sorry, Ms. Loftus. If you could scroll
up just slightly.
It says: "As this is a protected property, the owner
is now required to confirm the following:
"1. This house cannot have any more restrictions on
how to living or using.
"2. Ensure that all information about this house on
the market is true."
And then: "3. Make sure that the house has never had
a cemetery or burial site in its history, and has never been
any clash of cultures, for example, being haunted, burned or
unlucky."
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, did Guo say anything to you about the property
being haunted?
A. No.
MR. FERGENSON: Let's go to page 3, please.
All right. And I'll start reading paragraph 5.
"We hope that the current owner, this gentleman, will
stay in close contact with us for the next two years, and the
fund will put in $3 million to $5 million in renovation, and he
will be in charge and responsible for the approval of the
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renovation projects, subject to our budget approval."
And then there's subpoints.
"a. We are planning to convert an open-air, outdoor
pavilion on the upper side of the courtyard into a new pavilion
and he will help us to get permit from the government.
"b. We will add a lot of outdoor building lighting
surrounding all buildings and courtyards, including the deep
cleaning of the whole building again."
And we can scroll down.
And the last sentence there says: "Of course, the
cost and expenses are all on us."
"c. The lighting inside this house is so terrible.
We will add 24 to 36 wall lamps."
Skipping to "d. We will move all these furniture with
this property currently to the rooms on the third floor and the
second floor. The furniture that the whole Family Fund likes
in the future will be rearranged to the hall on the first floor
and the vacant rooms on the second floor. After we buy these
furniture, we hope he can help us to arrange them in."
"For the outdoor garden, in addition to adding
lighting, we need all the fountains to be in operation 24 hours
a day, 365 days a year, planting trees and in-depth
transformation of the whole garden."
Skipping to "f. The Family Fund now has a budget of
$3 million to $5 million for all renovations. These renovation
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projects also include the kitchen on the first floor. The
kitchen may be a whole kitchen renovation, and I hope he can
help to complete it."
Last one is the transformation of the whole garden,
more trees, more plants . . .
And we can scroll up slightly, Ms. Loftus.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, what was your understanding of where the money for
these renovations of this property was coming from?
A. From his Family Fund.
Q. Did you think these renovations would be paid for with
G/CLUBS money?
A. No.
Q. Did you think they would be paid for with supporter money?
A. No.
Q. Did you think they would be paid for with investor money?
A. No.
Q. All right. Let's go down to the next page.
No. 6. "The last and most serious thing is that he
and the agent must sign to ensure that they must always keep a
legal commitment to this transaction, never disclose any
information to any second party or third party, and keep it
absolutely confidential, including the right to judicial
protection that they cannot disclose any information about this
deal even when testifying in court."
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Ms. Li, that says they can't disclose any information
about this. Why do you think this was disclosed to you?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
A. Because——
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. Because Miles Guo trust me and he wants me to translate it.
Q. Had he shared with you other things that were secret?
A. Yeah, everything he communicate with me is secret.
Q. Had you kept all those things secret?
A. Yes.
Q. What, if anything, did Guo say to you about this property
being a secret NFSC base?
A. No, never.
Q. What did you understand this property was?
A. It's his family property.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, we can take it down.
Thank you.
Q. Now, Ms. Li, after Miles Guo's arrest, after hearing Chang
Dao say the Mahwah property was a secret base, what was the
next thing, if any, that caused you to have doubts?
A. The HCHK Ventures.
Q. What is the full name of that company?
A. Holy City Hong Kong Ventures.
Q. And where was it based?
A. In BVI.
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Q. What position, if any——if I call it HCHKBVI, will you know
what I'm talking about?
A. Yes.
Q. And what position, if any, did you hold at HCHKBVI?
A. I'm one of the director.
Q. Who else, if anyone, was a director?
A. Yvette Wang.
Q. When did you become a director of HCHKBVI?
A. July 2022.
Q. Who, if anyone, had asked you to become a director?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. What did Guo tell you?
A. He told me we're going to set up a new Rule of Law
Foundation in BVI and Yvette Wang will contact me for details.
Q. Rule of Law Foundation, is that where you were already a
director?
A. Yes.
Q. And after Guo told you that, what did you do?
A. Yvette Wang contact me.
Q. And what did Yvette Wang tell you?
A. So we prepared for talk to the BVI lawyer, how and why we
need to set up the new Rule of Law Foundation in BVI.
Q. And what was——what, if any, reasons were you told for
setting up a new Rule of Law Foundation in BVI?
A. First is the——we need——we want to set up more branches in
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different countries and we want to accept HDO donation.
Q. And why did you have to set something up in BVI to accept
HDO donation?
A. Because Himalaya Exchange is not available in US.
Q. And did you become a director of HCHKBVI?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could show the
witness what's marked as Government Exhibit VI87.
Q. Ms. Li, what is this document?
A. This document is appointing me as a director of this
company.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI87.
MS. SHROFF: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI87 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Can we please publish, Ms. Loftus.
And Ms. Loftus, if we could maybe make——enlarge the
text. We don't need the footnotes.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. All right. Ms. Li, the date, what's the date of this
document?
A. 20th of July 2022.
Q. And how long after your conversations with Guo and Yvette
did you sign this?
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A. Two months later.
Q. Did you have any conversations before signing this
document?
A. Yes, I sent——
Q. What——I'm sorry.
A. Yes, I send a message to confirm with Miles Guo should I
sign this; he said yes.
Q. And was that with an intermediary or with Miles Guo
directly?
A. Directly.
Q. Ms. Li, after you signed this document to become a director
of HCHKBVI, what was your involvement with the entity after
that, in the next several months?
A. Nothing.
Q. Did Miles Guo talk to you about the new Rule of Law after
that?
A. No.
Q. Did Yvette Wang talk to you about the new Rule of Law after
that?
A. No.
MR. FERGENSON: You can take it down, Ms. Loftus.
Q. Did there come a time when you discussed HCHKBVI with
Yvette Wang, again?
A. Yes. So——
Q. Well, Ms. Li, first, when did you discuss it with her
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again; what month or year?
A. April 2023.
Q. And was that in person or on the phone?
A. On the phone.
Q. Who was on that call?
A. Yvette Wang and Brother Long Island Chang Dao.
Q. What did Yvette say to you?
A. Yvette Wang said do her a favor——asked me to do her a
favor.
Q. What was the favor?
A. To sign all the documents, on——yeah.
Q. And what did you understand her request to be?
A. To sign all the documents related to HCHKBVI.
Q. And Ms. Li, was this conversation before or after Yvette
Wang's arrest?
A. After.
Q. After this call with Yvette Wang and Chang Dao, what
happened next?
A. One lawyer called me, asked me to sign some document, some
sort——document is coming to my email.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, can we show the witness
what's marked as Government Exhibit VI101.
Q. Is this the email, Ms. Li?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
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VI101.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may I just have one second.
THE COURT: Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Thank you.
No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI101 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you.
Could we please publish, Ms. Loftus.
Thank you. Ms. Loftus, if we could first blow up the
bottom half, the bottom email.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, focusing you on the top right, what's the date of
this email?
A. 11th of April 2023.
Q. And I'll read the——are you a participant on this email
chain?
A. Yes.
Q. I'll read the text and the body. It says "Mulan." Who is
Mulan, Ms. Li?
A. It's me.
Q. "Can you kindly execute this as soon as you can." And it
says, "Thanks much."
MR. FERGENSON: If we could scroll up now to the top
email.
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Q. All right. This is the same day, Ms. Li?
A. Yes.
Q. Who is this email from?
A. Alex Lipman.
Q. Who did Alex Lipman represent?
A. Yvette Wang.
Q. I'll read the body. It says, "Dear All, Please see
attached Holy City HKBVI corporate resolutions signed by Yvette
and authorizing the appointment of the assignee and the hiring
of Anthony S. and Sari."
And it says "Mulan, can you please sign right away
also and circulate to this group. Thank you."
Ms. Li, what did you do after receiving this email?
A. So I signed the document that Lipman sent to me.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, can we show the witness
what's marked as Government Exhibit VI102.
Q. Ms. Li, is this the document you signed?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI102.
MS. SHROFF: We have no objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI102 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Will you please publish.
All right. And Ms. Loftus, if we could blow up the
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top half or so.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. All right. Ms. Li, do you see at the top it says, "Written
Consent of the Directors of Corporation in Lieu of a Special
Meeting of Holy City Hong Kong Ventures Ltd."?
A. Yes.
Q. And what's the date of this document listed underneath
there?
A. 10th of April 2023.
Q. I'm going to read the bottom three resolutions there.
"RESOLVED, that the corporation owns 99.9999 percent
of the shares of Lexington Property and Staffing, Inc.
('Lexington').
"RESOLVED, that the corporation owns 99.9999 percent
of the shares of HCHK Technologies, Inc (HCHK Tech).
"RESOLVED, that the corporation owns 99.9999 percent
of the shares of HCHK Property Management, Inc. (HCHK
Property)."
Ms. Li, did you know what those entities were?
A. No.
MR. FERGENSON: If you could zoom out, please.
And if we could zoom on the second from the bottom
resolution, please.
Q. And I'm going to read the second from bottom. It says:
"RESOLVED, that Lexington, HCK Tech, and HCHK Property
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is hereby authorized to execute deeds of assignment for the
benefit of creditors ('the Deed of Assignment') to Brian W.
Hofmeister, Esq. (hereinafter 'the Assignee')," and it gives
his address.
Ms. Li, did you know what assignment for the benefit
of creditors was?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you know who Brian Hofmeister was?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you ever speak with him?
A. No.
MR. FERGENSON: If we can zoom out. And you can
scroll down.
We can zoom in on the signatures.
Q. Ms. Li, if you didn't know those things, why did you sign
this document?
A. Because this Alliance asked me to sign and Yvette Wang told
me to do her a favor.
Q. After you signed this document in April 2024, Ms. Li, what
happened after that?
MR. FERGENSON: You can take it down.
MS. SHROFF: 2023. Objection, your Honor.
MR. FERGENSON: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. My
apologies.
Q. Just to clarify, when did you sign that document,
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approximately what month and year?
A. April 2023.
Q. Thank you, Ms. Li. And after you signed it, what happened
after that?
A. So in June, the trustee Luc sent the document, say——sent a
TRO to stop this transfer.
Q. What was your understanding of that TRO?
A. It's temporary restriction order.
Q. And what was your understanding of the purpose of that?
A. To stop this transfer, so I realized we shouldn't do this.
Q. So Ms. Li, you mentioned a transfer.
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. When did you first learn about——we'll talk about the
transfer. When did you first learn about the transfer?
A. In this document, Luc's document.
Q. The TRO?
A. Yeah.
Q. All right. And what did you learn this transfer was, from
what to what?
A. From HCHK to G News.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could——
Q. Ms. Li, when you signed the document you looked at——
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if you want to pull up
GX VI102.
Q. ——did you understand there would be any transfers of
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assets?
A. No. I thought that's closing down for the company.
Q. And when you signed the documents, what was your
understanding of what assets these entities had?
A. No assets, just closing down.
MR. FERGENSON: You can take it down, Ms. Loftus.
Q. Now, Ms. Li, after the trustee tried to stop this transfer,
what, if anything, did an Alliance member ask you to do?
A. Asked me to start a lawsuit to sue Luc, to stop Luc get
this money.
Q. Who asked you to sue the trustee?
A. Zhang Yongbing.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, can we please publish
Government Exhibit 121. It's in evidence.
Q. And Ms. Li, when Zhang Yongbing asked you to sue the
trustee, how did you respond?
A. I said no. I said, I want to resign from the director. I
don't want to sue Luc.
Q. What happened after that——or withdrawn.
Were you able to resign then?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. Because the lawyer resigned before me so we can't process.
Q. And Ms. Li, I'll ask you to keep your voice up, please.
A. The BVI lawyer resigned just before me so no one process,
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so we need another new lawyer first.
Q. Ultimately, Ms. Li, were you able to resign?
A. Yes.
Q. Approximately when were you able to resign from HCHKBVI?
A. About July 2023.
Q. And after you resigned, what, if anything, were you asked
to do?
A. They wanted me to sign false affidavit to the trustee
court, the bankruptcy court.
Q. Who asked you to sign a false affidavit?
A. Zhang Yongbing.
Q. Who, if anyone, did Zhang Yongbing take direction from——
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
Q. ——to your knowledge?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: If you know. If you know.
Q. Who, if anyone, to your knowledge, Ms. Li, did Zhang
Yongbing take directions from?
A. Miles Guo.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, can we show the witness
what's marked as Government Exhibit VI66.
Q. Ms. Li, what's this document?
A. This affidavit Zhang Yongbing wanted me to sign.
MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government
Exhibit VI——
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Q. And did he send it to you?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VI66.
THE COURT: No objection?
MS. SHROFF: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VI66 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, please publish.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Now, Ms. Li, before Zhang Yongbing sent you this affidavit,
did he interview you about the affidavit?
A. No.
MR. FERGENSON: All right. Ms. Loftus, we can——I'll
just read it.
Q. At the top, Ms. Li, do you see it says United States
Bankruptcy Court District of Connecticut Bridgeport Division?
You see that?
A. Yes.
Q. And beneath that it says In re: Ho Wan Kwok, et al.,
Debtors. Who's Ho Wan Kwok?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. And then beneath that, it says, Luc A. Despins, Chapter 11
Trustee for the Estate of Ho Wan Kwok, Plaintiff, v. HCHK
Technologies, Inc., HCHK Property Management, Inc., Lexington
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Property and Staffing, Inc., Holy City Hong Kong Ventures,
Ltd., Anthony DiBatista, Yvette Wang, and Brian W. Hofmeister,
Assignee for the Benefit of the Creditors." Do you see that,
Ms. Li? Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. And to the right of that, do you see the date is
September——the date on this is September 21, 2023?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. Now beneath that in bold center, it says,
Declaration of Lan Mu (a/k/a Ya Li)." Is that you?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you write this document?
A. No.
Q. Who did?
A. Zhang Yongbing.
MR. FERGENSON: Okay. Ms. Loftus, if we can just
scroll slightly.
Q. So in paragraph 2, it says——actually, I'll start with
paragraph 1 just slightly. In the second sentence, it says:
"I understand the obligations and offer the following under
penalty of perjury." It says, "I believe the following
statements are true to the best of my knowledge, information,
and belief."
In paragraph 2, it says, "I submit this affidavit in
connection with the efforts by Holy City Hong Kong Ventures,
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Ltd. ('a BVI corporation') and its three wholly-owned
subsidiaries, HCHK Technologies, HCHK Property, and HCHK
Lexington, to protect their interests in the above-captioned
adversary proceeding."
And if we could scroll down.
And it says: "Until September of this year, I served
as a director of HCHKV. I had nominal ownership of HCHKV,
whereas Yvette Wang was the primary owner and director of
HCHKV."
Ms. Li, is that accurate?
A. It's about July. I served it to July.
Q. And aside from the month, is that generally accurate?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: May I have a moment, your Honor.
Q. Okay. Paragraph 4 says that, "I understand that there is
some concern about HCHKV's delay in answering the legal
proceedings in this Court. The explanation is
straightforward—–I was worried about making any move as the
minority and nominal director without more information and
counsel."
Was that true, Ms. Li?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. Because I get information——direction from Yvette Wang——
Q. And——
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A. ——to sign those documents.
Q. If we——we'll skip down to paragraph 6.
"Since that time, I and other HCHKV principals,
creditors, and counsel have had numerous discussions on how to
best proceed, and more importantly, how to proceed with
appropriate caution. This has taken considerable time."
And it says, "Based on these discussions, in
April 2023 I," and Ms. Li, who do you understand "I" to be
referring to here?
A. Myself.
Q. "——based on these discussions in April 2023, I authorized
the assignment proceedings pending in New York Supreme Court
concerning HCHKV Technologies and the related wind-down of that
business. I understand and believe that Mr. Anthony DiBatista
authorized the ABC proceedings on behalf of HCHK Property and
HCHK Lexington. Prior to the wind-down, however, these HCHKV
entities operated as viable businesses."
Is this information a true affidavit from you?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. I never have any meeting with them, and I don't know the
document I signed is for this transfer. I thought it's just
closing down that entities.
Q. Did you know whether the HCHKV entities operated as viable
businesses?
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A. No.
THE COURT: Are you answering that you did not know or
that they did not operate as viable businesses?
MR. FERGENSON: If I may, your Honor.
Q. Did you know one way or the other whether HCHKV entities
operate as viable businesses?
A. I don't know.
Q. And I'll read paragraph 8.
It says, "Meanwhile, I also came to learn that the
corporate formalities in the BVI had become stale, so we also
needed to make certain filings and reappoint agents of service
to ensure that the corporate form was current. This also took
some time."
Is that true, Ms. Li?
A. Yes.
Q. And I'll keep reading with 9.
MR. FERGENSON: If we could scroll down, Ms. Loftus,
and maybe enlarge it.
Q. "I have come to learn and believe, however, that the
assignee has to date failed to make the HCHKV entities'
creditors whole in the New York State Court action, opting
instead to surrender the HCHKV entities' assets to the US
trustee in this case as part of a separate agreement."
And then there's a footnote, footnote 2.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could just zoom out
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and go to the footnote, please.
Q. All right. The footnote 2 says, "It is undeniable that I
and the people involved with HCHKV entities had and/or have a
supportive relationship with the worldwide political and social
movement to reestablish freedom and democracy in China ('the
Movement'). It is also undeniable that much of the profit and
assets of the HCHKV entities' businesses had historically been
made available to assist the Movement. Regardless, these
entities were viable operating businesses (with the possible
exception, upon information and belief, of HCHK Lexington,
which I believe existed largely as a corporate shell)." Is
this accurate, Ms. Li?
A. No, I don't know anything about that. Even I don't know
the structure of this group.
MR. FERGENSON: You can zoom out, Ms. Loftus.
Q. Ms. Li, was the affidavit Zhang Yongbing asked you to sign
true for false?
A. False.
Q. Did you sign it?
A. No.
Q. Why didn't you sign it?
A. Because I know we can't say lie to the court. That's the
bottom line.
Q. Ms. Li, after you refused to sign, what, if anything, did
Zhang Yongbing say to you to get you to sign?
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A. He send me a final notice to threaten me to sign it.
Q. What was the threat?
A. The threat is, if we lose this case, we lost the money, Luc
take over this money, I will be fully responsible for all this
money.
Q. How much money was involved?
A. 38 million.
Q. What did you understand him to say when he said you would
be fully responsible for the 38 million?
A. I have to pay back 38 million.
Q. How did you respond?
A. I said, No, I don't have 38 million. If they want me to
pay, they can take my life.
Q. What did you mean by that?
A. I don't have 38 million. If they wanted me to be
responsible, they can use my life to pay it.
Q. What did you mean by they could use your life to pay for
it?
A. They can kill me.
Q. Why did you say that?
A. Because I have no other solutions.
Q. Were you harmed at all, Ms. Li, physically?
A. No.
Q. Did you think about harming yourself?
A. Yes.
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Q. Why didn't you do that?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, relevance, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. Because I have my 11 years old daughter.
MR. FERGENSON: We can take down the affidavit,
Ms. Loftus.
Q. Ms. Li, what effect, if any, did this incident of the false
affidavit and the threat, what effect did that have on your
doubts about Miles Guo?
A. After this, I realized, I fully realized this is a scam.
Q. After you realized it was a scam, what did you do next?
A. I tried to contact the US government.
Q. And before you did that, Ms. Li, what, if anything, did you
review?
A. The whole last seven years.
Q. What sorts of things did you review?
A. Everything. Miles Guo's broadcasts and the document we
signed.
Q. And what did you find in your review?
A. I find this is a scam.
Q. When you realized that, Ms. Li, how did that feel when you
realized that?
A. I feel very angry, desperate, I feel guilty, I feel regret,
and I'm very depressed, and I thought——thought about suicide.
Q. You said, Ms. Li, that you felt angry. Why did you feel
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angry?
A. We'd been cheated by Miles Guo. He lied to us. But we so
trust him, we trust him hundred percent, no doubt, no question.
Q. You said you felt guilty too. Why did you feel guilty?
A. I feel guilty for my family because all these seven years,
I didn't look after my family.
Q. What were you doing instead?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
A. I worked very hard for Miles Guo, and my G Translator
group, all the members worked very hard for Miles Guo.
Q. Ms. Li, did there come a time when you spoke with the
bankruptcy trustee?
A. Yes.
Q. And approximately when did you do that?
A. Around October 2023.
Q. At a high level, what did you speak with the bankruptcy
trustee about?
A. About the whole HCHK things.
Q. Did there come a time when you contacted the FBI?
A. Yes.
Q. Around when was that?
A. November, November 2023.
Q. Why did you contact the FBI?
A. Because I want to report to US government Miles Guo cheated
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O661GUO3 Ya Li - Direct
us, lied to us, and misleaded me.
Q. How many times, Ms. Li, have you met with the FBI and the
prosecutors, roughly?
A. Ten times. Around ten times.
Q. Thank you, Ms. Li. And if you can, please try and keep
your voice up, if you can.
A. Okay.
Q. When you contacted the FBI, did you feel safe or unsafe?
A. Safe.
Q. And after contacting the FBI or before?
A. After.
Q. How did you feel before contacting the FBI?
A. I feel unsafe.
Q. Why did you feel unsafe?
A. Because if I stop cooperating with Alliance, they will say
I'm the CCP spy and a traitor and start bully me, and I feared
about this, and I feared about my family, my house.
Q. Ms. Li, were you ever arrested?
A. No.
Q. Did you travel to the United States to testify voluntarily
or involuntarily?
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, we covered all of this
before, so I'm going to object as asked and answered.
THE COURT: This was asked and answered.
Q. Ms. Li, why are you here to testify today?
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O661GUO3 Ya Li - Direct
A. I come here to testify to tell how Miles Guo cheated us,
how Miles Guo lied to us, how Miles Guo misleading us.
Q. Ms. Li, in his broadcasts, what, if anything, did Miles Guo
say about being targeted by the CCP?
A. He said his family members, his employees in China,
targeted by CCP.
Q. And what else, if anything, did he say about being targeted
by the CCP?
A. And his assets been taken over by CCP.
Q. Did he ever talk about hacking?
A. Yeah, his phone hacked by CCP.
Q. And what about attempts to get him sent back to China?
A. Yes, CCP sent out——send out the officers to US and to try
to persuade president Trump to send him back to China.
Q. Ms. Li, if it were true that Miles Guo was targeted by the
CCP, how does that change your view of Miles Guo's movement?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled.
Q. If it were true he was targeted by the CCP, how does that
change your view of Miles Guo's movement?
A. No change.
Q. If it were true he was targeted by the CCP, how does that
change your view of his investment projects?
A. No change.
Q. Why doesn't it change your view, Ms. Li?
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O661GUO3 Ya Li - Direct
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I object based on relevance.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. Even being targeted by CCP, doesn't mean you can scam
people's money. I'm also being targeted by CCP. I won't cheat
any people's money. That's wrong.
Q. How were you targeted by the CCP, Ms. Li?
A. My——my parents in China, the CCP police called them and
asked them to tell me stop what I'm doing because my activities
is threatened the national security; and they also called my
parents and other relatives to try to find me, ask them if I'm
back to China, how they contact me; and my parents tell me
don't go back to China, they will arrest me, but I'm the only
child.
Q. Ms. Li, after being targeted by the CCP, did you spend
supporter money on yourself?
A. No.
Q. Did you spend investor money on yourself?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. Because that's not my money. It's investment money,
supporters' money. And those monies should be used to fight
against the CCP, not for myself.
Q. Ms. Li, by participating in Miles Guo's investment
projects, did you get rich?
A. No.
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Q. In terms of dollars in and dollars out, did you make money
or lose money?
A. Lose money.
Q. About how much did you lose?
A. About 50——sorry, around 20,000.
Q. By participating in Miles Guo's movement, did you take down
the CCP?
A. No.
Q. What's been the result of——in your view, what's been the
result of this movement and these investment projects?
MS. SHROFF: Objection to the form of the question.
THE COURT: Are you asking the result on her?
MR. FERGENSON: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead.
A. The result is the supporters not getting rich but getting
poorer and that supporters feeling disappointed and will
leave——
MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor. The question is
the result on her.
THE COURT: So speak only for yourself.
MS. SHROFF: And I move to strike the first part of
her answer.
A. I'm getting poorer and I will leave this movement. I——in
the final, I also don't want to take part in any democracy
activities because I don't know if it's another scam.
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O661GUO3 Ya Li - Direct
MR. FERGENSON: May I have a brief moment, your Honor.
THE COURT: Yes.
Q. Ms. Li, I want to take a step back to the start when you
began watching Miles Guo's videos. Why did you start following
Miles Guo?
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, we've been over this.
THE COURT: She's already given her answer to this
question.
MR. FERGENSON: I have just three more questions or
so, your Honor.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Li, sitting here today, do you still believe in
democracy in China?
MS. SHROFF: Objection. He's been over this before.
THE COURT: I don't believe that he's asked about
democracy in China.
Do you still believe in democracy in China?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
Q. Sitting here today, do you still trust Miles Guo?
MS. SHROFF: Asked and answered, at least ten times.
MR. FERGENSON: Not about today, your Honor.
MS. SHROFF: As opposed to yesterday?
MR. FERGENSON: No, as opposed to when she was a
follower.
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O661GUO3 Ya Li - Direct
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. No.
Q. Why not?
MS. SHROFF: I believe that's been asked and answered,
but——
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. Because the whole movement is a scam. He cheated us, lied,
everything. And mislead us.
MR. FERGENSON: No further questions.
THE COURT: We're going to take a 10-minute break.
Remember that you're not allowed to discuss the case amongst
yourselves; no reading, listening to, or watching anything
about the case.
Ma'am, you may step out. Don't discuss your
testimony.
(Jury not present)
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, could we excuse the witness.
THE COURT: You may step out.
(Witness not present)
(Recess)
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O66BGUO4
(At the sidebar)
THE COURT: So there was a point, Mr. Fergenson, where
you asked the witness, Were you worried about being arrested.
Ms. Shroff objected. I sustained and I said, Did you have any
concerns? That's the question. And then you say, Did you have
any concerns about being arrested.
MR. FERGENSON: I'm sorry. I apologize, your Honor.
That was not my intention.
THE COURT: Watch yourself.
MR. FERGENSON: I'm sorry. Truly.
THE COURT: All right.
(Continued on next page)
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O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
(In open court)
THE COURT: Let's have the witness return, please. We
can bring the jurors in, please.
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Please be seated. Cross-examination.
MS. SHROFF: Thank you, your Honor.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. Ms. Li, you testified on direct, did you not, that you
thought there was no other solution to your problem, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you thought the only solution to your problem was for
you to "kill yourself," correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And it's fair to say, is it not, Ms. Li, that you in fact
did find another solution?
A. The solution is?
Q. You found a solution, did you not? Your solution was to
contact the bankruptcy lawyer, correct?
A. No, at this time I thought it's --
Q. You have to keep your voice up cause I can't hear you.
A. At that time I thought about my life.
Q. But after that you found a solution, right? You're here
today, right?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, objection. The witness
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O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
should be allowed to answer the question.
THE COURT: Just pause so she can answer. The
question is, yes, did you find another solution.
A. After I realize I can't suicide because my daughter --
Q. That wasn't my question.
MR. FERGENSON: Excuse me, your Honor. She's cutting
her off.
MS. SHROFF: I move to strike.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
Q. My question was, you found another solution, correct?
A. After I think about my daughter, I can't suicide, then I
contact the US government.
Q. Correct. So you found a solution, the solution was to
contact the US government, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Which US government did you contact first?
A. Trustee.
Q. Right. So you had all these thoughts, and then you found a
solution. The solution was to contact the trustee, and that's
the first step you took, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you contacted the trustee, that's Luc Despins? You
have to keep your voice up.
A. Yes.
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Q. And you contacted the trustee yourself, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you spoke to the trustee, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you speak by phone or did you speak by some other
method?
A. Online.
Q. You spoke online. You sent him an email; is that right?
A. Online meeting.
Q. You had an online meeting with him, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you use Webex?
A. I don't know.
Q. You don't know or you don't remember?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Who set up the meeting?
A. The trustee.
Q. The trustee set up a meeting and you participated, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you told him all of the facts that you had in your mind
that you wanted to share, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And at the time you talked to the trustee, you knew that
the trustee was representing an entity known as Pax; is that
correct?
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A. No.
Q. Who did you think the trustee represented?
A. US government.
Q. You thought that the trustee represented the United States
government?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he tell you that?
A. No.
Q. Then there came a time after you contacted the bankruptcy
trustee, you contacted the DOJ, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You contacted the FBI, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then you contacted the U.S. Attorney's office, correct,
these prosecutors?
A. Yes.
Q. And you did all that by yourself from Australia, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So let's start with that. How many times do you think you
talked to these prosecutors?
A. About ten times.
Q. Well, let's see. Do you remember the first time was in
November of 2023, November 1. Do you remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. And how was that meeting set up?
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A. I meet with them in person.
Q. So you met with them in person in Australia, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then the next time you met with them was November 3rd
of the same year. Do you remember that?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You remember meeting with them in February, February 6 of
2024, do you recall that?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about February 29 of 2024. Do you recall that?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Do you recall February 29, maybe, because that's the first
time you met these prosecutors; Mr. Fergenson, Mr. Finkel,
Ms. Murray, and Mr. Horton over there, the man with the beard?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You don't remember?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about the March 1 interaction with them, do you recall
that?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Do you recall sending the prosecutors documents as
attachments, several documents one after another?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you recall if that was on March 1 of 2024?
A. I don't remember.
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O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Q. How about March 7., do you remember a Webex meeting with
these prosecutors?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about March 15 sending emails to them, to Mr. Fergenson
and Mr. Finkel, Ms. Murray and Mr. Horton, and then the FBI
agent, do you recall that?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about March 18, having a meeting with Mr. Fergenson, do
you recall that?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about March 21 of 2024, do you remember that?
A. I don't remember.
Q. March 25 with the FBI and AUSA Fergenson, the man who asked
you questions today, do you recall that?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about March 25 sending links and documents to the
government, do you recall that?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about March 29, do you recall that?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about April 11, having a Webex meeting with AUSA
Fergenson and the FBI agent, do you recall that?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about April 18, 2024, do you remember that?
A. I don't remember.
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Q. April 21st meeting with the FBI agents and sending emails
to them, do you remember that?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about April 23 of 2024, you remember that?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about April 25, 2024, do you remember that, a Webex
meeting with Mr. Fergenson over here?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about April 28th, do you recall that?
MR. FERGENSON: She's not saying what happened on
April 28, your Honor. Objection.
THE COURT: You're asking if she remembers a meeting
with him on February 28?
MS. SHROFF: I'm happy to rephrase.
Q. Do you recall, Ms. Li, on April 28, 2024, emailing with the
U.S. Attorney's office, Mr. Fergenson right here and FBI,
documents relating to certain issues that you were researching
for the United States government?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, objection to the
testimony, and also to clarify if she remembers the specific
date or if she remembers having emailed with the government.
THE COURT: My understanding is that she's asking
whether she remembers on a given date that she emailed.
A. I remember I send email, but I don't remember which date.
Q. Do you remember on May 2, 2024, having a Webex meeting with
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O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
AUSA Fergenson, AUSA Murray, Finkel and Horton. And by AUSA I
mean Assistant United States Attorneys who are at this table?
A. I only remember meeting with Fergenson.
Q. You remember emailing with Mr. Fergenson on May 3, 2024?
A. I email, but I don't remember the date.
Q. How about May 9, do you remember a phone call with these
three prosecutors on May 9th?
A. I don't remember.
Q. That's less than a month before.
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about May 16 having a telephone call with
Mr. Fergenson, do you recall that phone call?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about your May 27 Webex meeting with Mr. Fergenson, the
man who questioned you today, do you recall that?
A. We have meeting, but I don't remember the date.
Q. How about the June 1st meeting, do you recall that?
A. Yes.
Q. The June 1st meeting was in person, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You met with Mr. Fergenson, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you met with him in his office, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And after you met with him -- actually, let me take that
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back.
For how long did you meet with Mr. Fergenson on June
1st?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You don't remember?
A. A few hours.
Q. By few hours do you mean three hours, five hours?
A. I don't remember.
Q. But you remember meeting with Mr. Fergenson?
A. Yes.
Q. And when you met with him, he was taking notes of what you
were saying, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You don't remember seeing him take notes?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Do you remember the FBI taking notes?
A. I don't remember.
Q. On June 1, when you met with Mr. Fergenson, was it in this
building or the other building across the street?
A. I don't remember.
Q. On June 1st when you met with Mr. Fergenson, did you meet
with him before you were given a lawyer?
A. Yes.
Q. So you met with him for a couple of hours before they got
you a lawyer, correct?
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O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. And on June 1st, these gentleman and Ms. Murray got you a
lawyer, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And after you got yourself a lawyer, did you then go back
and talk to Mr. Fergenson?
A. No.
Q. Did you talk -- well, okay.
Did you talk to Mr. Fergenson on June 2nd?
A. Yes.
Q. And on June 2nd, did you talk to him with your lawyer or
without your lawyer or both?
A. Without lawyer.
Q. You talked to him without a lawyer, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. They'd given you a lawyer, but you just went and met with
Mr. Fergenson without your lawyer being next to you, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection, asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. You met again with Mr. Fergenson on June 4th, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. What did you do on June 3rd?
A. Meet with Mr. Fergenson.
Q. You met again with Mr. Fergenson on June 3rd, correct?
A. Yes.
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Q. And then on June 4th, you went with him on two meetings or
just one. Do you recall?
A. I don't remember.
Q. And then again you met with him on June 5th, correct?
A. No.
Q. You didn't meet with him yesterday right before you took
the stand?
A. Yeah, before this trial, yes.
Q. So you met with him in the morning right before you took
the stand, that stand right there?
A. Yes.
Q. That was June 5th, and today's June 6th, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, from all of this time, from November 1st of 2023, to
June 5 or June 6th of 2024, you and I have never met, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You and I have never emailed with each other, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You and I have had no phone calls, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Same goes for that gentleman sitting right here name Sid
Kamaraju. You've never talked to him, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You've never called him, correct?
A. Yes.
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O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Q. You never emailed with him, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Zero contact with him, correct?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
Q. And same thing with any of Mr. Guo's lawyers that you see
in court today, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered at this point.
THE COURT: We've established that she has not had
contact with the defense team.
MS. SHROFF: Thank you, your Honor.
Q. On June 4th, when you met with Mr. Fergenson, you went over
a document with him, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And before you went over that document with him, I take
that back.
Mr. Fergenson gave you a document that you reviewed,
correct?
A. When?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to the vagueness.
MS. SHROFF: It's on June 4th.
THE COURT: Only with respect to June 4th. Okay.
MS. SHROFF: I apologize, your Honor, I missed that.
THE COURT: You're referring to June 4th only at this
time?
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O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
MS. SHROFF: Yes.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, does the Court have a
document on the screen?
Q. Ms. Li, are you having any trouble looking at the document?
It's only for the witness, not for the jury.
A. No.
Q. Can you see the document, Ms. Li?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you take a minute and review it, please?
A. Yes.
Q. And if I could just show you the second page?
A. Yes.
Q. And if I could show you the third page.
Do you recall receiving this document on June 4th?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I ask that the document be
introduced into evidence as Defense Exhibit 60504.
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Step up.
(Continued on next page)
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1553
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
(At the sidebar)
THE COURT: What's the problem?
MR. FERGENSON: This was an initial NPA offer, your
Honor, that was sent to Ms. Li's lawyer. I did not discuss
this document with Ms. Li or give it to her. I assume we're
going to get to a privilege conversation. She wants to ask
about this draft that was sent to her lawyer, in which Ms. Li I
understand discussed with her lawyer. There's a later version
of the NPA which I then sent to Ms. Li's lawyer, and that's the
one that was signed. This is not the one she signed.
MS. SHROFF: I have no intention of asking her any
question at all that would even closely meander into the
attorney/client privilege. I simply want to introduce the
document into evidence because the scope of coverage increases.
I have zero interest in asking her a single question about what
her lawyer told her and what she told her lawyer.
THE COURT: So why is it that you're looking to
introduce the draft as opposed to the final version?
MS. SHROFF: Two reasons. The scope of the coverage
increases.
THE COURT: In the second version?
MS. SHROFF: Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: That's true. We're fine with that.
MR. KAMARAJU: That's the reason, your Honor.
THE COURT: Just to show that she had a lawyer
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1554
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
negotiating it?
MS. SHROFF: No, nothing about the lawyer.
MR. KAMARAJU: Just that she had -- they made an offer
of a non-prosecution agreement that covered a certain range of
conduct. Her lawyer, cause I assume they were not speaking to
her directly, communicated with them and expanded that at the
lawyer's request. It shows that they're negotiating and they
increased the coverage.
THE COURT: Which was my question just now, just to
demonstrate that they negotiated?
MS. SHROFF: Yes.
THE COURT: Does the second agreement encompass what
is in the first agreement?
MS. SHROFF: And expands it quite nicely.
MR. FERGENSON: That's right. Yeah.
THE COURT: So what's the problem?
MR. FERGENSON: As long as they're not going to get
into -- I'm concerned that we might get into her discussion
with her lawyer. But if she can ask the questions in a way
they don't touch on that, if Ms. Shroff can do that, we'll be
okay.
MR. KAMARAJU: The witness or her lawyer can assert
privilege if they think there's any question that touches on
that.
THE COURT: The lawyer is in the room?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
MR. FERGENSON: No, I don't believe so.
MS. SHROFF: The lawyer also wasn't in any
conversation. I'm not going to go there, your Honor. I'm old
enough to know not to go there. If I do, you can most
certainly sua sponte sustain the objection. That's not my
intention.
THE COURT: Okay.
(Continued on next page)
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1556
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
(In open court)
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may we publish it to the
jury?
THE COURT: Any objection as far as authentication is
concerned?
MR. FERGENSON: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted, and you may publish it to
the jury.
(Defendant's Exhibit 60504 received in evidence)
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. Ms. Li, if you take a look at the top portion, it says
right below -- if you could highlight for her, please.
It says by email, correct? And that document is dated
June 2nd, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you will note that your lawyer's name itself is
misspelled, correct? Her name has two "F"s and they've called
her Wall Wolf?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to relevance.
THE COURT: If you know how her name is spelled.
MS. SHROFF: I'll withdraw.
Q. You recall reviewing this document, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And if I could just have you take a look at page two of
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1557
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
that document. You recall reviewing this page and page three,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And going back to page one, if I could just have the first
paragraph highlighted for you.
It's fair to say, right, Ms. Li, that you understood
this agreement to be between you and the United States
Attorney's office who are the prosecutors here, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And the document that you are looking at gives you coverage
for certain entities, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Rule of Law Foundation, yes?
A. Yes.
Q. GTV, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. G/Clubs, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. The Himalaya Exchange, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. The Himalaya Global Alliance, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then the New Federal State of China, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, if I could have that taken down, and let me show you
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1558
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
another document which is dated June 4th. If I could just have
it shown only to the witness and not to the jury, please.
Thank you.
Do you recognize this document, Ms. Li?
A. Yes.
Q. And could I have the last page shown to the witness. Does
it bear your signature?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: I ask that it be moved into evidence,
your Honor.
MR. FERGENSON: Without objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit VI-120 received in evidence)
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. Now let's just stick to the first paragraph again, right.
Now in this version added is Holy City Hong Kong
Ventures, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. G Translators is added for you, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. HAA Group Party Limited, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. TT Resources 1 Private Limited, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Archwood Fund, correct?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. By the way, is Archwood spelled correctly?
A. Yes.
Q. GTV Australia, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then you have G Fashion, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. What does GFNY stand for according to you?
A. Another G Fashion company name.
Q. And that's G Fashion New York, right?
A. Yes.
Q. G Music, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Medical Supply, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Gettr, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. G/Club ME, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Southern Star, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. H Reserve?
A. Yes.
Q. ACA Capital?
A. Yes.
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1560
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Q. ALFA Global Ventures?
A. Yes.
Q. And the Hamilton Fund, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So this document that I'm showing you now is different from
the first document I showed you a minute go, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you read both documents carefully, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And after you read the second document, you signed the
second one and not the first one, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And when you signed this document, you went over it with
Mr. Fergenson, correct, the second document now?
A. No.
Q. Mr. Fergenson didn't review the document with you?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection, your Honor. We're getting
into the area I was concerned about.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. SHROFF: He has a privilege with the witness?
THE COURT: Did he review the document with you?
MR. FERGENSON: I'm sorry, your Honor.
A. No, with the lawyer.
Q. You never discussed this document with Mr. Fergenson
directly?
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1561
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
A. No.
Q. And the document itself is on United States Attorney's
letterhead, correct? If somebody could point that out for her.
Right?
A. Yes.
Q. And then the signature is signed by the prosecutors on this
table, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Micah Fergenson, Ryan Finkel, Juliana Murray and Justin
Horton, these four, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And the person who signed it is Micah Fergenson, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And this is an agreement between you and his office, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And this agreement gives you what is called coverage,
right?
It is a promise by them that they won't prosecute you,
correct?
A. If I provide everything truth.
Q. We'll get to the truth part. Don't worry.
They provide you coverage, right?
A. Yes.
Q. I just want to make sure. The agreement is between you and
the government, no one else?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. And they decide if you're telling the truth or not,
correct?
A. No.
Q. Really?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled.
Q. When you met with them --
A. I decide myself.
Q. You decide yourself?
A. Yes.
Q. So if you decide you're telling the truth and if they
decide you are lying, all that matters is that you're telling
the truth?
A. No.
Q. So it matters what they think about what you are saying,
correct?
A. No.
Q. When you met with them in the proffer sessions each time
they talk to you, they told you to tell them the truth, right?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Do you recall testifying on direct, and you were
asked a question and you said, if you were to lie here, the
government could tear up your non-prosecution agreement,
correct?
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1563
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. They are the ones who could tear it up, correct?
A. No.
Q. Well, who else could tear it up? I can't tear it up,
right?
THE COURT: Don't testify.
Q. Could I tear up your cooperation agreement?
A. No.
Q. Could the judge tear up your cooperation agreement?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
THE COURT: It's not a proper question.
Q. The only people who could tear up your cooperation
agreement is Mr. Fergenson, the man who's standing up, right?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
A. No.
Q. You tell me who else can tear up your cooperation
agreement?
A. I don't know.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, it's not a cooperation
agreement.
MS. SHROFF: I apologize.
Q. The non-prosecution agreement. My apologies. You don't
know who else could tear it up; is that your testimony?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
A. I don't know.
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1564
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
THE COURT: Overruled.
A. I don't know.
MS. SHROFF: If I could just have the witness look at
page two, and if I could just have the paragraph that says, It
is understood that if the government. Could you highlight that
for her.
Q. Could you take a minute and read that for me. You ready?
A. Yeah.
Q. It is understood that if the government has determined
that -- it really should be Ms. Li -- has committed any crime
after signing this agreement or has given false, incomplete, or
misleading testimony -- I'm just going to stop there for a
minute.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, if Ms. Shroff could refer
to her as Ms. Li and Ms. Lye.
MS. SHROFF: Ms. Li.
Q. Ms. Li, the first sentence leads you to conclude what about
the word "government?"
Who's the government in this sentence?
A. US government.
Q. And in your understanding of US government in this line is
Mr. Fergenson, right?
A. No.
Q. Then who?
A. I don't know.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Q. You don't know?
A. Yeah, I don't know.
Q. But it is the government that decides if you have committed
any crimes after signing this agreement, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And it is the government that decides if you give false
testimony, correct?
A. No.
THE COURT: Is there a question?
Q. It is the government that decides if your testimony is
complete or incomplete, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. It is the government who decides whether your testimony has
been misleading or accurate, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay. Let's look at the next paragraph. The next
paragraph tells you that the agreement does not bind any
federal, state or local prosecuting authority other than this
office, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And this office is the office in the Southern District of
New York, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then it says, the office will, however, bring the
cooperation of Ms. Li to the attention of other prosecuting
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
offices if requested by you, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then it says in the last paragraph, With respect to
this matter, the agreement supersedes all prior, if any,
understandings, promises and/or conditions between this office
and you, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So the agreement is between two of you, the U.S. Attorney's
office and you, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And then if you could scroll down, please, for her. This
document was signed by you, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And it was signed by a lawyer, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And it was joined on June 4th, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And after you signed this document, did you go back and
meet with Mr. Fergenson?
A. I don't remember.
Q. And as far as you're concerned, it is your understanding of
this document, correct, that the U.S. Attorney's office is not
going to prosecute you, correct?
A. Unless I tell the truth.
Q. But they're not going to prosecute you subject to whatever
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1567
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
conditions that are in this agreement, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you put that agreement in place before you testified at
trial here today, right, and yesterday?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, Ms. Li, you testified on direct that you have spent a
substantial amount of your life in Australia, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you have a degree in accounting; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. And what was your undergraduate degree in by the way?
A. International trade.
Q. International trade. Was that at a university in China?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you tell the jury, please, what your master's degree
was in?
A. Accounting.
Q. And what courses did you take as a master student in
accounting?
A. Accounting course.
Q. How long was your master's program?
A. About two years.
Q. And which university did you take this two-year program at?
A. In Australia.
Q. Which university?
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1568
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, objection to relevance.
THE COURT: Overruled. You can say the name of the
university you attended for your master's degree.
A. Macquarie.
Q. And did you get any CPA licenses after you graduated from
your master's program?
A. Yes.
Q. What licenses did you get?
And really, Ms. Li, could you please keep your voice
up for me.
A. CPA.
Q. I could not hear that.
A. CPA.
Q. And you worked as a chartered public accountant, that's a
CPA, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And to be a CPA in Australia, you have to abide by certain
rules, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you have to renew your licenses every year, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you have to fill out forms to make sure your license is
renewed, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you did that, right?
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1569
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. And you worked as an accountant, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Accounting work is work that requires care, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. It requires accuracy, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. It requires attention to detail, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you had all of that while you were doing your job,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you worked at several accounting companies, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And, in fact, you work at one now, right? I don't need the
name, but you work at an accounting company now, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And as part and parcel of your work, you filled out tax
forms for people, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you also do taxes for institutions or just
individuals?
A. Both.
Q. I cannot hear you.
A. Both.
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1570
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Q. And even now you do taxes for both individuals as well as
institutions, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And especially for institutional taxes, these are
complicated tax returns, correct?
A. No, they're the small business.
Q. But they require consideration and care, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were an accountant when you first started listening
to broadcast of Miles Guo, right?
A. Sorry. Can you say that again.
Q. Sure. When you first started listening to broadcast by
Miles Guo, you were working as an accountant, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And the first time you listened to a broadcast by Miles
Guo, was that in 2016 or 2017?
A. 2017.
Q. In 2017, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you testified that the way you ran into a Miles Guo
broadcast is because a friend of yours had asked you to
investigate the death of some child in China, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And your friend chose you to investigate that, correct?
A. Yes.
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1571
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Q. She asked for your help, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you agreed to help her, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you investigated that issue carefully, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You wanted your friend to have accurate information,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You took steps to make sure you got accurate information,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then you gave it to her, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And when you were doing all of that is when you first saw a
broadcast by Mr. Guo, correct?
A. Before.
Q. Okay. You saw it before?
A. Yeah.
Q. And that's when you started listening to the broadcast,
correct?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Did you start listening to the broadcast before you
saw that?
A. Yes.
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1572
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Can you tell us how --
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, if we could just clarify
the question on what is it.
MS. SHROFF: The broadcast.
MR. FERGENSON: Which broadcast, your Honor.
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. The very first broadcast, Ms. Li?
A. VOA interview.
Q. So the first time you saw Mr. Guo was when he did the VOA
interview; is that your testimony?
A. Yes.
Q. And let's talk about the VOA interview. Was that an
interview that was streamed live, do you remember?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you actually watch it live or did you watch a later
rerun?
A. Live.
Q. You watched it live from Australia, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And when you watched it live, you saw it was interrupted?
A. Yes, it been cut off.
Q. It was cut off, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And after it was cut off, it did not pick back up, right?
A. Yes.
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1573
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Q. The interview was terminated, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. The interviewer was a woman name Sasha Gong, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you later learned, did you not, that Sasha Gong had
been fired for interviewing Mr. Miles Guo and broadcasted it on
VOA?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were not surprised by that because you knew that
the CCP does things like that, correct?
A. That's Miles Guo said.
Q. That wasn't my question. My question was whether you know
the CCP to do things like that?
A. I don't know.
Q. Do you know if the CCP welcomes pro-democracy speeches?
A. Sorry.
Q. You're familiar with the CCP, correct?
A. I not familiar.
Q. You're not familiar with the CCP?
A. No.
Q. So when you testified on direct about your thoughts of the
CCP and them visiting people in China, that gave you no
familiarity of what CCP is; that's your testimony?
A. That time, yeah, I don't familiar.
Q. That time you were not familiar with what is the CCP?
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1574
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yeah.
Q. What does the CCP stand, for?
A. Chinese Communist Party.
Q. It's not a democracy, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. China is not a democracy, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And it wasn't a democracy in 2014 or 2016 when you listened
to Voice of America, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to form, your Honor. She's
asking compound questions.
THE COURT: It is a compound question.
Q. In 2016 when you listened to the Voice of America
interview, was China a democracy?
A. In 2017?
Q. Uh-huh.
A. No.
Q. So when you watched the Voice of America interview, you
knew that it was possible that it was the CCP that interrupted
that interview, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. In 2016 you had family in China, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection. She's misstating the year.
The witness testified 2017.
THE COURT: Are we talking about 2017 or 2016?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
MS. SHROFF: I'm happy to ask about 2017.
Q. In 2017 you had family in China, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And in 2017, you would not have publicly spoken out against
the CCP, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And in 2018, you wouldn't speak out publicly against the
CCP, correct?
A. 2018 after following Miles Guo, I started, since 2017. So
after I follow Miles Guo, I started.
Q. You started publicly speaking out against the CCP?
A. Yeah, on Twitter.
Q. On Twitter?
A. Yeah.
Q. When you spoke out against the CCP on Twitter, what name
did you use?
A. Mulan Twa Chi.
Q. That's not your name, right?
A. No.
Q. So you didn't use your real name, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. You did not show your face, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You used a handle, correct?
A. Yes.
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O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Q. You made up a handle in the name of Mulan, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You chose the name Mulan, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You chose the name Mulan because Mulan represents a woman
fighting as a man, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Guo didn't choose that name, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. In fact when you picked that name, you didn't even know
Mr. Guo, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
A. No, I already know him.
Q. So you picked the name Mulan, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You went on Twitter, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you posted as Mulan, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And that's not you publicly speaking out against the CCP,
correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection, asked and answered. We
object to the badgering, your Honor.
THE COURT: It's slightly different. You can answer
that question.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
A. Sorry. Can you repeat the question. Can you repeat it
again.
Q. When you posted on Twitter against the CCP, you did not use
your real name, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you did not use your real name because you was scared
that the CCP would have a reaction to that, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were scared of the CCP, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So you knew that the CCP could hurt you if you spoke out
against the CCP, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And logically someone else could be worried that there
would be a reaction to them speaking out against the CCP?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained as to what somebody else might
be worried about.
Q. So going back to the VOA interview. The interview was
interrupted, right?
A. Yes.
Q. That was the first time that you saw Miles Guo; am I
correct or am I wrong?
A. Correct.
Q. I'm correct, right?
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O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. That's the first time you saw it?
A. Yes.
Q. And after you watched the interview, you researched Miles
Guo is; that right?
A. I didn't research. I followed him.
Q. How did you find him?
A. On YouTube and Twitter.
Q. Right. So you looked for him on YouTube, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then you looked for him on Twitter, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Guo didn't call you up and say follow me on YouTube,
correct?
A. He said in the broadcast.
Q. But you hadn't seen a broadcast yet. You just said you
went to Voice of America interview and then you went to YouTube
and then you went to Twitter?
A. Yes.
Q. So you looked for him, right?
A. Yeah, in YouTube. In YouTube video he said follow the
Twitter, so I find the Twitter account.
Q. Right. But you went to YouTube all on your own, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you learned at some point, did you not, that Mr. Guo's
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
YouTube account had been shut down, right?
A. Not shut down.
Q. Mr. Guo's YouTube account had never been shut down?
A. No, just no live broadcast.
Q. I didn't understand that, your Honor.
A. The function, so no live broadcast function, but the
YouTube account is there.
Q. So if Mr. Guo wanted to live broadcast on YouTube, he
couldn't do that, correct?
A. He can do at the beginning, and a few months later this
function be shut down.
Q. I really didn't get that.
THE COURT: You can read back the answer.
(Record was read)
Q. So at some point in 2017, Mr. Guo could no longer live
broadcast on YouTube, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And the Twitter account that he had was also shut down in
2017, correct?
A. I don't remember exactly which year.
Q. You cannot remember what?
A. I cannot remember exactly which year.
Q. But you knew at some point his Twitter account was also
shut down, correct?
A. Yes.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Q. And so where did you follow and look for the broadcast for
Mr. Guo?
A. Another social media platform.
Q. What's that?
A. I don't remember the name. It's also very popular
platform, and also another platform called Live Stream.
Q. Live Stream?
A. Yeah.
Q. Well, he was never on TikTok, right?
A. No.
Q. So he wasn't on Instagram, correct?
A. Yeah, another one is Instagram.
Q. Your testimony is Mr. Guo was on Instagram?
A. Yes.
Q. So you saw him on Instagram, correct?
Did you follow him on Instagram?
A. Yes.
Q. How many followers did he have on Instagram in 2017?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about 2018?
A. I don't remember.
Q. 2019?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Do you know if in 2019 he even had an Instagram?
A. Yes, even now still have.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Even now he still has an Instagram account?
A. Yes.
Q. And you still follow it even now, right, because that's the
only way you'd know?
A. I'm not following now.
Q. Then how would you know it's still active? I'll move on.
You testified also on direct, did you not, that you
decided to bake a cake for Miles Guo's birthday, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. I want to make sure. At that time when you baked that
cake, you did knot know Miles Guo personally, right?
A. What do you mean personal?
Q. You never met him in a group chat, correct?
A. No.
Q. I cannot hear you.
A. Not group chat, only Twitter.
Q. Right. So Twitter is not meeting somebody? Actually, I
withdraw that.
On Twitter you followed him, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And on Twitter he had never direct messaged you, correct?
A. Yes, I have direct message.
Q. I didn't ask if you have direct message. My question to
you, Ms. Li, was at the time you baked the cake, had Mr. Guo
direct messaged you on Twitter? That was the question.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
MR. FERGENSON: And it was asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled.
A. Can you say it again.
Q. You testified on direct that you decided to bake a cake for
Mr. Guo's birthday, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And obviously sitting here today you remember his birthday,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you baked that cake, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And at the time that you did that, Mr. Guo had never direct
messaged you, correct?
Correct, right?
A. No, direct message me through Twitter.
Q. He direct messaged you through Twitter before you baked the
cake; that's your testimony?
A. Yes.
Q. So you bake this case, and you gave it to the leader of the
Melbern farm that was your testimony on direct, correct?
A. No, at that time no farm yet.
Q. To the group?
A. Yeah.
Q. What was the group by the way?
A. The supporters group.
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1583
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Which supporters group?
A. Mel Bin supporters group.
Q. And the supporters group was for the whistleblower
movement, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So you gave him the birthday cake, right?
A. Yes.
Q. He took a photo and he sent it to the Miles Guo according
to you, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And according to you, Mr. Guo thanked you for baking the
cake, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And that is how you started interacting with Miles Guo
according to you, right?
A. Interacting on Whatsapp.
Q. He invited you to a Whatsapp group, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you started talking on the Whatsapp group, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Ms. Li, is it fair to say that the group on Whatsapp
consisted of a hundred plus people?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You don't remember how many people were in that Whatsapp
group?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
A. Initially about 20.
Q. You think initially there were only 20 people on the
Whatsapp group?
A. Yeah.
Q. Do you recall any of the other 19?
A. I don't recall.
Q. So the number 20 on the Whatsapp group became larger,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were just one of many people on that Whatsapp
group, right?
A. Yes.
Q. There were people on that Whatsapp group that volunteered
in different areas, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. People volunteered to translate, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. People volunteered to make banners, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. People volunteered to cook and hold festivals, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Each person had equal say or equal talk in this group,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And it was a group, so you didn't really know who was
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
answering, correct?
A. They show their name.
Q. Right. But you don't know if Mr. Guo was running his own
account or if somebody was running his account for him,
correct?
A. No, that's Miles Guo because it has voice message it's him.
Q. But when you had anything other than a voice message, you
wouldn't know who was running that account, right?
It's all right. We can move forward. There came a
point, right, Ms. Li, that you decided to volunteer as a
translator, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And when you volunteered as a translator, you would
translate documents, is it from Mandarin to English or also
from English to Mandarin?
A. Yes, both.
Q. You did both, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you did both because you're fluent in both languages,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you translated broadcast that Mr. Guo put together,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you testified on direct that you also translated legal
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O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
documents, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. What legal documents did you translate?
A. Related to Miles Guo.
Q. Okay, but what were they?
A. I don't remember the details.
Q. But you remember them being legal documents, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You would agree with me legal documents can be technical,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were able to translate them, right?
A. I try my best.
Q. And you read them in one language, and you translate them
into another, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you obviously had done a good job because you became a
leader of the translator group, correct?
THE COURT: Do you think you did a good job?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
Q. And then you became a leader of the translator group,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And how many people were in your translator group?
A. Initially only ten.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Ten people, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. So you supervised ten people doing translations, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then it grew, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And as it grew, you continued to supervise those people,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And there came a point, did there not, where you were
reimbursed for supervising these people who were translating,
correct?
A. No.
Q. You never got any money for running the group?
A. From 2021 July, Rule of Law stopped funding all the farms.
Q. I didn't ask you if they were funding all the farms.
My question to you was whether you got paid for
running the translator group?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. How much did you get paid?
A. Ten grand.
Q. Ten grand, right. And that's 10 grand a month, not 10
grand a year?
A. Yes.
Q. So 10 grand a month, 12 months in a year, correct?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. And you could decide what to do with those 10 grand, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Nobody told you how you had to spend it, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You could keep it all yourself, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You could distribute it, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And to date nobody has ever asked you for any accounting on
that 10 grand that you got for years, correct?
A. Can you say it again.
Q. Sure. Nobody asked you to send them an itemized bill of
how you spent that money, correct?
A. I send invoice to Rule of Law.
Q. No. No. You sent different bills to Rule of Law. My
question to you is on the 10 grand --
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, first of all, she
testified, and it's been asked and answered now.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Do you recall sitting here today -- I withdraw.
You got paid 10 grand to be the leader of the
translator group, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Q. How many people in 2020 did you supervise?
A. Hundreds.
Q. You supervised hundreds of people who were translating; is
that your testimony?
A. Yes.
Q. And could you tell me what is it exactly that you
supervised?
A. So I get task from Miles Guo. I send the task to my group
members.
Q. The only person who ever gave you a task to translate is
Miles Guo; that's your testimony?
A. Mostly from Miles Guo directly.
Q. Is it fair to say, ma'am, that there were hundreds of other
translators in other farms doing exactly the same thing?
A. Not exactly same, no.
Q. They were translating, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Translating from Mandarin to English, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And English to Mandarin, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Same thing?
A. No.
Q. How is it different?
A. We translate more legal document and more important task.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Q. That's your opinion, correct?
A. No, Miles Guo told to me.
Q. So Miles Guo may have told you that, but at the end that's
your opinion, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Miles Guo told you that you were the one translating
important documents, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. What important document did you translate?
A. Many, I don't remember.
Q. Tell me one. I'll move on.
Now you also testified, did you not on direct that
Mr. Guo was the one who asked you to become a director at Rule
of Law Foundation, correct, that was your testimony?
A. Yes.
Q. And is it fair to say that Mr. Guo actually just asked you
if you would like to be a director on the Rule of Law
Foundation? That's what he asked you, right?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, she should be allowed to
answer first.
THE COURT: Please answer.
A. He said I pick you to, I pick you to be the Rule of Law
Foundation director.
Q. So he said he picked you to be Rule of Law Foundation
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
director, and you said yes. Is that your testimony?
A. Yes.
Q. Was he on the Rule of Law Foundation board?
A. No.
Q. Did he tell you how he had the authority to do any such
thing?
A. No.
Q. There were other directors on the Rule of Law Foundation
board, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. In fact, the government showed you a document, right, with
the names of the people including Bill Gertz, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know Bill Gertz?
A. Yes.
Q. Who's Bill Gertz?
A. He's a journalist in US.
Q. And he was a director, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Somebody named John Morgan was a director, correct?
A. No.
Q. John Morgan wasn't a director?
A. Not of Rule of Law.
Q. Who else was a director of Rule of Law Foundation?
A. Kyle Bass.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Q. What was Kyle Bass' role on the Rule of Law Foundation?
A. Chairman of Rule of Law Foundation.
Q. Who else was on the Rule of Law Foundation?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about Mr. Bannon?
A. He is Rule of Law Society chairman.
Q. He had nothing to do with Rule of Law Foundation, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Who else was on the Rule of Law Foundation directorship?
There were five of you, right?
MR. FERGENSON: She asked this and the witness said
she doesn't remember.
MS. SHROFF: We'll find a document that will refresh
her recollection.
Q. Sara Lihong was on the board; is that correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about Mr. Feng, F-E-N-G?
A. I don't remember.
Q. For how long were you a director of the Rule of Law
Foundation?
A. From beginning to last year.
Q. Do you remember somebody named Victor Cerda being on the
Rule of Law Foundation?
A. Yes.
Q. And what was his role?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
A. Director.
Q. He was one of the directors just like you, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And as a director of the Rule of Law Foundation you
attended board meetings, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And Mr. Guo was not at those board meetings, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. I'm correct or he was there, which one?
A. You're correct, not on the meeting.
Q. And there were scheduled board meetings by the Rule of Law
Foundation, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Minutes of those meetings were taken, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. People took notes and then wrote up formal board meeting
notes, correct?
A. I don't know. I don't take the notes.
Q. Those meeting notes were available to you as a director,
correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. And as a director, you never asked Rule of Law Foundation
for any of their financial paperwork, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And, in fact, you had no authority to ask for the Rule of
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Law Foundation paperwork, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. You don't know what authority you had as a director of the
Rule of Law Foundation?
A. I only know I can vote.
Q. And you did vote, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. Matters were put before you, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you chose how to vote, correct?
A. I consult with Miles Guo.
Q. Excuse me.
A. I consult with Miles Guo.
Q. You consulted with Miles Guo before voting on the board?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was your decision to consult with him?
A. He said I can ask him.
Q. Exactly. He said you can ask him if you want, correct?
A. Some times he give me direction.
Q. Direction to what?
A. How to vote.
Q. On what?
A. On some issues.
Q. Tell us, what issue?
A. I don't remember.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O66BGUO4 Ya Li - Cross
Q. You do not remember a single issue on which Miles Guo told
you how to vote?
A. I don't remember.
Q. The Rule of Law Foundation supported people in the Ukraine,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Did Mr. Guo tell you how to vote on that issue?
A. I don't remember.
Q. The Rule of Law Foundation helped people when they were
stranded because they were targeted as anti-CCP, correct?
A. We rescue all Chinese people.
Q. And you voted on those rescues, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You voted on distributing PPE during the pandemic, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. There were proposals on whether PPE should be sent to
hospitals, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. Whether PPE should be donated to people in China, correct?
A. I don't know. I don't remember.
Q. Whether PPE should be provided to the New York police
department, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. So sitting here today, you do not remember a single thing
that you voted on as a director of the Rule of Law Foundation?
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I'll move on.
Now one of the functions of the Whatsapp group was to
allow people to complain if they had a complaint, correct?
A. Can you repeat again.
Q. Sure. One of the functions of the Whatsapp group was to
allow people to complain if they had a complaint, correct?
A. No.
Q. So if you had a concern, you could not raise it in the
Whatsapp group?
A. Yes.
Q. You could raise it, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And people raised complaints, right?
A. Yes.
Q. People complained about you, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. People complained you were mean, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You don't remember people who were translating for you
complained that you were mean to them about their work product?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You don't remember people complaining in the Whatsapp group
that you were rude to them?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Do you remember those complaints being raised when you were
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part of the IBG group?
A. Sorry. Can you repeat.
Q. Let me show you what we have marked as a defense exhibit.
Do you see a photo on your screen, ma'am?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you recognize the people in that photograph?
A. Yes.
Q. And who are they?
A. Miles Guo and Fay Fay.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may I move the document and
the slash photograph into evidence.
MR. FERGENSON: Objection just to relevance.
THE COURT: Overruled. I'm admitting it. Go ahead.
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. That's Fay Fay, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You did not get along with Fay Fay, right?
MS. SHROFF: I'm sorry. I forgot to Pub.
(Defendant's Exhibit 60496 received in evidence)
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. That's Fay Fay, and she's one of the supporters, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And she's also in the IBG group?
A. What's IBG group?
Q. You don't know what the IBG group is? You don't know what
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IBG is?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, could she stop with the
commentary, please.
THE COURT: So the witness has said she does not know
what the IBG group is. Please continue your questions.
Q. Was she a member of the Iron Blood Group?
A. Yes.
Q. So IBG is the Iron Blood Group, right?
A. We don't call IBG group, just Iron Blood Group.
Q. Iron Blood Group, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And she was a member of that, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you did not get along with her, correct?
A. No.
Q. You fought with her, correct?
A. Sorry.
Q. You and Fay Fay did not get along in the Iron Blood Group,
correct?
A. No.
Q. Let me show you what is marked as Defense Exhibit 60497.
Do you see that, ma'am?
A. Yes.
Q. Who is that a photograph of?
A. Lei Ann Li.
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Q. Who is she?
A. Cornfield sister.
Q. Could you keep your voice up for me?
A. Cornfield sister.
Q. Her name is also Lian, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you recognize this photo, right?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I move it into evidence,
please.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 60497 received in evidence)
THE COURT: And we have reached 3:00, so we're going
to stop for the day. Remember that you're not permitted to
discuss the case amongst yourselves or with anyone else. Don't
permit anyone to discuss the case in your presence, and don't
read, watch, or listen to you anything from any source
concerning anything about this case.
Have a good evening, and see you tomorrow morning
ready for you to walk in at 9 a.m.
(Continued on next page)
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(Jury not present)
THE COURT: Ms. Li, you can step out. Don't discuss
the case.
THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you.
(Witness temporarily excused)
THE COURT: Please be seated. Ms. Shroff, how long do
you expect your cross-exam to go tomorrow?
MS. SHROFF: Maybe two hours. How long was the
direct?
THE COURT: I don't recall.
MS. SHROFF: Me either, your Honor, but I will try to
keep it short. I will try.
THE COURT: Okay. And you have other witnesses lined
up for tomorrow?
MR. FERGENSON: We do, your Honor.
THE COURT: Anything before we break?
MR. FERGENSON: Just very briefly, your Honor. I
appreciate your Honor's comments at the sidebar. I just wanted
to say one brief thing. I didn't want to leave a misimpression
with the Court for what I was thinking with that question. I
had understood that the problem with the question was, there
was something loaded with the term "worried." And the testimony
right before that was Ms. Li being told, they were going to
arrest them all. And so I had thought, Was told. The problem
with the question that's leading is, there's no foundation in
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evidence, and so I had thought there was a foundation of
evidence for asking her what she was concerned about was being
arrested, but that she had just been told. That was it, your
Honor. And I appreciate the sidebar, and I apologize for any
misimpression.
THE COURT: All right. Have a good evening.
(Adjourned to June 7, 2024 at 9 a.m.)
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INDEX OF EXAMINATION
Examination of: Page
YA LI
1403Direct By Mr. Fergenson . . . . . . . . . . .
1540Cross By Ms. Shroff . . . . . . . . . . . . .
GOVERNMENT EXHIBITS
Exhibit No. Received
1405 Stip 15 and VI192-T . . . . . . . . . . . .
1504 VI28 and VI29 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI34 1426 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI35 1428 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI65 1442 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI66 1524 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI87 1514 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI101 1517 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI102 1518 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-106 1473 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-107 1475 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-108 1477 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-109 1482 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-110 1483 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-113 1471 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-114 1454 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-115 1450 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-116 1449 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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VI155 1435 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI155-T 1435 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-160 1456 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-160-T 1457 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI171 1412 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI181 1422 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI181-T 1423 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-189 1460 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-189-T 1461 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-190 1463 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-190-T 1463 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI192 1405 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI194 1492 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
DEFENDANT EXHIBITS
Exhibit No. Received
60496 1597 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
60497 1599 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
60504 1556 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VI-120 1558 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Translated Text(简体中文翻译)
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第1/页 美国纽约南区法院 -------------------------------------------------------x 美利坚合众国， 控方 23 Cr. 118 (AT) 郭文贵 被告。 审判 -------------------------------------------------------x 纽约州纽约市， 2024年6月6日 上午8:45 庭前： 尊敬的阿娜丽莎-托雷斯法官大人， 地区法官 -及陪审团- 出庭律师： 达米安-威廉姆斯 纽约南区美国联邦检察官 代表：迈卡·F·费根森 瑞安·B·芬克 贾斯廷·霍顿 朱莉安娜·N·莫里 助理美国检察官 萨布丽娜·P·施洛夫 被告律师 PRYOR CASHMAN LLP 被告律师 代表：西德哈达·卡马拉珠 约翰·M·基尔加德 克莱尔·P·蒂尔顿 ALSTON & BIRD LLP 被告律师 代表：E·斯科特·舒里克 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第2/页 另有出席者： Isabel Loftus，法律助理，美国检察官办公室 Ruben Montilla，辩方法律助理 Tuo Huang，普通话翻译 Shi Feng，普通话翻译 Yu Mark Tang，普通话翻译 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第3/页 2024年6月6日 美国诉郭文贵案 庭审笔录第10位证人证词第二部分 时间：上午8:45 (庭审继续;陪审团不在场) 法官说：早上好。请介绍你们自己。 费根森律师说：早上好，法官大人。麦卡·费根森、莱恩·芬克、朱莉安娜·莫里，还有贾斯汀· 霍顿将加入我们，代表美国;还有我们的律师助理伊莎贝尔·洛夫特斯。 施洛夫律师说：早上好，法官大人。我们代表郭文贵，我是萨布丽娜·施洛夫，我们还有西德 哈达·卡马拉珠、约翰·基尔加德和在律师席后的舒里克律师以及蒂尔顿女士。 法官说：请入坐。所有陪审员都在场。我们准备在早上9点开始。之前有其他事项吗？ 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，如果可以的话，辩方有一个问题。关于待决物证，我想是173号， 我们无法同意采纳，因为有一部分内容还没有翻译。我们已经检查过，政府发给我们的翻 译大都可以接受。但部分内容还没翻译，如果那部分也翻好了，我们会有不同的立场。 费根森律师说：法官大人，我们在审判结束时把这个物证发给了辩护律师，大约24页，还附 带有几个不同的文件。这是一封信件，附带的几份记录包括一些会计表格和发票。基本上是 李女士按要求留下的那100万美元的会计记账及转账记录。她是会计师，保留了这些记录 并且作为信件发给了王雁平，李女士和王女士都签了名的。前6页左右有文字。我们在发送 给辩护方时翻译了前5页， 也提醒过第6页未翻译。我们不打算向陪审团展示第6页，就用 中文版本继续也可以，法官大人。这个没问题。我主要关注的是后面的发票，以及由王雁平 和李女士签名这一事实。所以怎么最合理怎么来就行，法官大人。我们不想引起任何迟延， 不过想进一步提供一点背景，法官大人，发票和电汇记录都是英文的，就和商业记录一样。 这才是我们这个证据的核心。你知道，我们可以的 --我们没翻第6页，我们可以翻的 -- 法官说：有什么原因吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第4/页 费根森律师说：翻译服务送回来就是这样了。可能是失误跳过了这页。我们收到时就这样 了。由此带来的不便我们深感抱歉，法官大人。我们没有——如果法庭接受的话，我们可以 用中文版本继续，重点在于那些发票，这部分是英文的。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，因为政府打算用那么几页就采纳半份文件做为证据不太恰当吧。 我们很乐意翻译那一页发给政府。或者我想政府可以——我停下来是因为法官大人看起来 有话要说。 法官说：如果你们想用这个文件，这页就得翻译。 费根森律师说：法官大人，没有哪条规定说非得是英文。本案的证据中英文都有，有些文件 是中英文两个版本的。 法官说：你是说准备采用只有中文的文件吗？ 费根森律师说：有可能，当然很多文件是中英混合的。 法官说：我没兴趣知道可能发生什么。我想知道你的意图是什么？你打算准备采用只有中 文的文件吗？ 费根森律师说：是的，这个文件中部分是中文的。 法官说：你没有在回答我的问题。 费根森律师说：我——能给我一点时间吗，法官大人。我需要简短商讨一下。我也不是对案 件中的每一个物证都一清二楚。 （政府律师商议） 费根森律师说：我们可能会提供一些录音，法官大人，录音中有被告的声音，他是用中文， 这是事实。至于这个文件，中文部分的重点是王雁平的签名；她的名字是拼写出来的， Yvette Wang，她还签了名的。中文的部分里，这是我们希望向陪审团强调的，这部分也已 经全部翻译了。第6页只是列出随后有哪些个发票。我不会向陪审团展示或说到这一页的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第5/页 我就看一些发票，这些发票都是英文的。如果法官希望的话，我们可以将第6页遮盖掉，就 这么继续。 ��洛夫律师说：法官大人，检方在假设辩方不会质疑他们把不完整的文件展示给陪审团的 行为，这是其一；其二，在证据完整性的规则下，检方还在假设辩方不会使用文件的那个部 分。这对被告是不利的。我刚查过邮件，法官大人，政府下了通知，他们明天打算传唤另一 名证人，所以他们手头还有点时间。看起来对木兰女士的直接和交叉询问不会持续明天一 整天。想想这反复讨论花掉的时间——如果我们来个10分钟的休息，这事就能解决。但我 方继续反对以某种——我不知道是中断还是不完整的形式采用这个文件。 法官说：等等，抱歉，你是说双方就第6页有可能达成一个解决方案？ 施洛夫律师说：不过就一页。他们要做的就是把它翻译出来。如果他们同意，我们可以在休 息的时候用谷歌翻译，我们有充足的时间。按他们的说法明天有足够的时间传唤另一名证 人，所以我们可以慢慢翻。 法官说：我不会允许你们用一个还有一页没翻好的文件。 费根森律师说：好的，法官大人。但如果我们达成协议，比如说，他们同意用谷歌翻译，由我 们提供译文，这样法庭可以接受吗？ 法官说：绝对可以。因为它看起来确实像是一个清单，而且很短。 费根森律师说：是的。 法官说：所以我建议你们这么做。还有别的问题吗？ 费根森律师说：没了，法官大人。 施洛夫律师说：我们这边也没有，法官大人。 法官说：好的。 (休庭) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第6/页 法官说：请就坐。请带陪审员入席。 （陪审团入场） 法官说：请入坐。陪审员们早上好。 陪审员们：早上好。 法官说：感谢大家准时到庭。我们将继续进行对证人的直接询问。请记住你们仍受宣誓之 约束。 李娅，继续作证。 由检方律师费根森律师直接询问： 问：早上好，李女士。 答：早上好，费根森先生。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以展示政府物证VI191吗？ 这是已经被采纳的证据 了。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我不确定191是否被完全采纳。 法官说：需要边上讨论吗？ 费根森律师说：我认为不需要，法官大人。 施洛夫律师说：不需要，法官大人。我认为其中一部分已经被采纳了。我们没问题。 法官说：好的。你可以继续询问。 费根森律师说：谢谢。 费根森律师 问：李女士，你昨天作证时提到了这个视频，还记得吗？ 答：记得。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第7/页 费根森律师说：好的。现在我来读一下——实际上我们也可以展示政府物证VI192，我相信 这也是证据了。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我们确实需要边上讨论。 费根森律师说：法官大人，这不是证据。我认为我们不需要边上讨论。我们可以—— 施洛夫律师说：这不是证据。 费根森律师说：无论如何，法官大人，如果需要的话，我会再次采用。我们可以让证人看一 下政府物证VI192吗？好的。洛夫特斯女士，我们是不是可以下拉浏览一下。 由检方律师费根森提问： 问：好的。李女士，这是我们刚刚看过的YouTube视频的一个片段吗？ 李：是的。 问：你当时看过那个视频吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府物证VI192，当然还尚未作为证据。 施洛夫律师说：没有异议，法官大人。 法官说：采纳。 （政府物证VI192被采纳为证据） 费根森律师说：可以展示了，洛夫特斯女士。我还要宣读一份协议。目前只有纸质版。这是 政府物证协议 15。首先，我想政府是要提交物证协议 15。 法官说：你要宣读出来吗？ 费根森律师说：是的，法官大人。 法官说：请继续。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第8/页 费根森律师说：谢谢。双方在此达成协议，同意下面表格中A栏列出的物证包含外语音频或 文本，B栏为A栏所列物证的真实准确的翻译。表格包括GX VI192和GX VI192-T。因此政 府提交GX VI192-T和协议 15。 法官说：采纳。 （政府证物协议 15和VI192-T被纳为证据） 费根森律师说：法官大人，我们可以展示GX VI192-T的纸质版吗？ 法官说：可以。 费根森律师说：谢谢。好的，洛夫特斯女士，我们可以播放视频吗？ （视频播放） 费根森律师说：你可以暂停在那里。我要开始朗读了，从视频文字记录的1:08开始。 “我告诉法治基金的所有董事有几个要求不能更改：‘首先，郭文贵的1亿美元将按比例捐赠 给法治基金，并且首先收到的是我的捐款。我对今天所说的承担法律责任。这是今天的法治 基金。账户中的2/3现金来自文贵。换句话说，战友每赠的1美元, 就还会有2美元来自文 贵。1亿美元捐赠之后，文贵正在协调向法治基金捐赠10亿美元。’” 问：李女士，这是你看过的直播当中的一个吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：好的，可以关掉了，洛夫特斯女士。 问：李女士，昨天我们结束时，我们在讨论你是怎么处理来自农场贷款项目的100万美元 的。你记得吗？ 答：记得。 问：大致上那100万美元你是怎么处理的？ 答：郭文贵让我代表总部支付一些费用。 问：什么样的费用？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第9/页 答：GTV IT工程和G Fashion的客户服务。 法官说：请对着麦克风大声说话。 证人说：好的。 问：李女士，把麦克风的顶部对准嘴巴，可能会好些。支付这些费用的程序是怎样的？ 答：对于GTV IT工程，叫Ming的那个人当时是GTV的首席技术官，他会每个月发给我一份 Excel电子表格，告诉我每个人需要支付多少钱，然后根据那个Excel表格，我会给他们开具 发票，然后根据那个Excel表格进行支付。 问：你使用哪些实体来进行这些支付？ 答：秘密翻译组和TT Resources 1。 施洛夫律师说：抱歉。我没听清她说的第二个部分。 问：你能重复一下第二个实体的名字吗？ 答：TT Resources 1。 问：TT Resources是什么？ 答：TT Resources 1是一个代表总部支付费用的实体。 问：谁创建了那个实体？ 答：是我。 问：谁想出创建那个实体的主意？ 答：不是的，是郭文贵让我这样做，来帮忙他。 问：李女士，这些要求你支付的款项，你实际上支付了吗？ 答：付了。 问：你有没有用那100万美元给自己花费？ 答：没有。 问：你有没有用那100万美元给你的家人花费？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第10/页 答：没有。 问：为什么没有？ 答：因为那是投资者的钱，不是我的钱。 问：关于你转给Medical Supply的200万美元，你知道那笔钱后来怎么样了吗？ 答：不知道。 问：如果你知道农场贷款的钱会用在郭文贵和他的家人身上，你会把那200万美元转给 Medical Supply吗？ 施洛夫律师说：法官大人—— 答：不会。 施洛夫律师说：——这同样的问题已经问过好几次了。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 问：如果你知道农场借款的钱会用在郭文贵和他的家人身上，你会把那200万美元的农场贷 款钱转给Medical Supply吗？ 答：不会。 问：李女士，从你收到的农场借款当中， 有没有过退款？ 答：有。 问：当成员要求退款时，你通常会怎么做？ 答：如果有人要求退款，我通常会报告给郭文贵，他会给我一些指示。 问：为什么你要向郭文贵报告？ 答：因为这是他的投资项目。 问：当你向郭文贵报告退款请求时，他会怎么回应？ 答：这取决于支持者的态度。如果是正常的，我们会给他们退款。如果是公开批评他或批评 ——批评新中国联邦的支持者，我们就不退款。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第11/页 问：如果一个要求退款的支持者批评了新中国联邦，谁告诉你不退款的？ 答：郭文贵。 问：是他本人还是通过中间人？ 答：他本人。 问：李女士，你熟悉喜美元和喜币吗？ 答：熟悉。 问：郭文贵说喜美元和喜币是什么？ 答：喜美元和喜币是加密货币。 问：你们的喜币简称是什么？ 答：Hcoin。 问：你们的喜美元简称是什么？ 答：HDO。 问：关于这些个，郭文贵具体说HDO是什么？ 答：HDO——1 HDO等于1美元。 问：郭文贵说喜币是什么？ 答：喜币的价格会像其他加密货币一样上下波动。 问：根据郭文贵的说法，喜币有和什么东西挂钩吗？ 答：和20%的黄金挂钩。 问：你相信它有20%的黄金挂钩吗？ 答：是的。 问：你为什么相信？ 答：他说他会给我们发黄金的照片。 问：那有发生吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第12/页 答：没有。 问：郭文贵大约什么时候开始推广HDO和喜币的？ 答：2021年。 问：李女士，什么是喜币配额？ 答：喜币配额取决于投资的金额。你会按投资金额得到50%的喜币配额。 问：你能解释一下吗？你能举个例子说明一下吗，李女士？ 答：可以。如果你的投资金额是1万美元，那么你会得到5000喜币配额，每个喜币价值10美 分，所以你需要支付500美元来购买这5000个配额。 问：所以你之前投资了1万美元。你能购买多少—— 施洛夫律师说：反对“之前”这个词。 法官说：反对无效。你可以继续。 问：你之前投资了1万美元。你在喜币的账上有资格购买多少喜币？ 答：5000。 问：作为配额，这5000个喜币的价格是多少？ 答：10美分。 问：你需要为这些喜币支付多少钱？ 答：500美元。 问：你会把这500美元支付给哪里？ 答：喜马拉雅交易所。 问：好的。谁想出了喜币配额的主意？ 答：郭文贵。 问：喜币配额大约什么时候开始的？ 答：2021年初。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第13/页 问：你自己参与了吗？ 答：参与了。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否请您向证人展示政府物证VI171的文件？ 问：李女士，这是什么文件？ 答：这是确认我的喜币配额的合同。 费根森律师说：政府提交物证VI171。 法官说：有异议吗？ 施洛夫律师说：没有，法官大人。 法官说：采纳。 （政府物证VI171被纳为证据） 费根森律师说：我们可以展示一下吗？ 检方律师费根森先生提问： 问：在我们等待展示的时候，李女士，这合同是干嘛用的？ 答：这是我的喜币配额合同。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以放大上半部分吗？ 问：好的。李女士，上面写着“香草山有限公司”。“香草山有限公司”是什么？ 答：这是纽约农场的名字。 问：你是“香草山有限公司”的成员吗？ 答：是的。 问：你是“香草山”的成员？ 答：不，对不起，不是。 问：为什么这个合同是和“香草山”签的？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第14/页 答：因为我是秘密翻译组的领导，所以我的成员会和我签类似的合同，但因为我是领导，， 我不能和自己签合同，所以和“香草山”农场签了。 问：注意看右上角，这是什么日期？ 答：2021年10月21日。 问：左边写着“HF成员的名字”。HF是什么？ 答：喜马拉雅农场。 问：这里的名字是什么？ 答：是我的名字。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，可以向下拉吗？加粗部分写着“喜马拉雅交易所”，“给予李娅 的优先和折扣喜币价格”，“协议书”。我继续念那一段：“我们很高兴地通知您，为了表彰您 为支持喜马拉雅农场的愿景和使命所做的贡献，您的全名和详细信息如上所示，喜马拉雅 农场已成功从喜马拉雅交易所获得一项优惠，同意在喜币向公众开放市场交易前，给予您， 作为喜马拉雅农场的成员，以每枚喜币10美分的优先折扣价，从交易所订购66,781枚喜币 的机会。” 由检方律师费根森先生提问： 问：李女士，作为参考，喜币正式上线是什么时候？ 答：2021年11月1日。 问：你说这是10月21日，所以这是—— 答：大约一周前，对。 问：一周前，好的。那我问你，李女士，大体上看你的66,781枚喜币是如何计算的？ 答：首先是我的投资金额，第二部分是我的志愿工作贡献，第三部分是法治基金的捐赠。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以拉到第2页吗？ 好的。我想看一下第5页——我的 意思是第5段。好的。我来读这一段： SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译���供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第15/页 “本协议书的一个重要条款是您在此不可撤销地同意，完全并无限期地遵守以下保证和承诺 ： ‘您保证并确认您是喜马拉雅农场的成员，因此遵守喜马拉雅农场的规则和理念（“喜马拉雅 农场会员”）。’” 由检方律师费根森先生提问： 问：李女士，先暂停一下，您能说明一下喜马拉雅农场的规则和理念是什么吗？ 答：所以我们——您必须——这里的理念是您必须推翻中共，不与中共合作，还必须支持郭 文贵，支持喜马拉雅联盟，并且不能公开批评郭文贵和新中国联邦。 问：那么，喜马拉雅农场的规则和理念的一部分是不能批评郭文贵吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对引导性提问，法官大人。 法官说：费根森先生，不需要重复她的证词。 费根森律师说：明白，法官大人。好的。好的，我现在继续阅读这些要点。“作为一名喜马拉 雅农场会员，您保证并确认您遵守喜马拉雅农场的规则和理念，并承认您理解只有每位喜 马拉雅农场会员严格并坚定地遵守喜马拉雅农场的规则和理念，才能实现喜马拉雅农场的 使命（“喜马拉雅农场承诺”）。“您保证并理解喜马拉雅农场优先利率的要约——”实际上， 我们可以继续往下翻。我们可以到第3页。这就对了。这部分加粗的文字写着“本协议书的 违约和执行。” 由检方律师费根森先生提问 问：好的。李女士，为了以每枚10美分的价格获得大约66,000枚喜币，你大概需要支付多少 钱？ 答：大约6000多美元。 问：你支付了吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第16/页 问：在哪里支付的？ 答：在喜马拉雅交易所。 费根森律师说：好的。我继续读。“违反本协议将导致喜马拉雅农场利益的损失，这些利益 本可以分配给其他成员。如果喜马拉雅农场通过充分证据确定，您作为喜马拉雅农场成员 违反了上述任何保证和承诺，并因此有权享受喜马拉雅农场优先利率选项的利益，则此违 约将被视为对本协议书的重大违约，因此您已获得、受益或可能获得的所有与喜马拉雅农 场优先利率选项相关的权利和利益将由喜马拉雅农场自动撤销，您在此授权并同意通知交 易所自动终止该利益。”协议中写道：“由于违反本协议，喜马拉雅农场可以采取任何必要的 法律行动，无论是......”在倒数第三行或第四行写道“包括指示交易所对您购买的所有喜币进 行强制清算......”并且写道“通过签署本协议，您同意对您购买的所有喜币进行清算......”如果 我们可以继续滚动。第10段提到可追偿金额。洛夫特斯女士，如果我们能——对不起，稍 微往上滚动一下。谢谢。 由检方律师费根森先生提问： 问：李女士，你理解这份合同中关于违约的内容是——如果你违反合同，会发生什么？ 答：如果你违反合同，喜马拉雅联盟有权收回你的所有喜币。 问：在什么情况下他们可以收回你的喜币？ 答：如果你违反合同，也就是你做了反对郭文贵、郭文贵运动和新中国联邦的事情。 问：郭文贵称那些做这种事情的人为什么？ 答：中共间谍或叛徒。 费根森律师说：如果我们可以继续往下滚动，到——我们可以到第6页。 问：好的。李女士，谁签署了这份协议？ 答：我和夏其东。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第17/页 问：你能提醒我们他的另一个名字吗？ 答：长岛哥，长岛。 费根森律师说：谢谢你，洛夫特斯女士。我们可以把这个文件拿下。 问：李女士，除了你自己购买喜币外，你还做了什么来帮助其他支持者参与喜币配额？ 答：我用我的农场公司帮助日本农场和纽约农场购买喜币。 问：为什么？ 答：还有我的——我自己的农场成员。 问：为什么你必须帮助日本农场和美国农场购买喜币配额？ 答：因为那时，喜马拉雅交易所在日本、纽约——美国和加拿大是不可用的。 问：你说你用了一个公司。你是用哪家公司来接收和发送农场的资金的？ 答：HAA集团。 问：为什么你用HAA集团来处理其他农场的钱？ 答：哦，因为这个——因为这个公司在澳大利亚，不是秘密翻译组。我想把它们分开。 问：你用秘密翻译组来做什么与喜币配额相关的事情？ 答：是为了我的农场成员。 问：顺便问一下，李女士，郭文贵说他是否拥有喜币？ 答：他说他什么都没有。他和他的家人没有任何喜币。 问：他对是否拥有喜马拉雅交易所说了什么？ 答：没有——什么都没有。 问：好的。李女士，提醒我们一下，喜马拉雅交易所正式上线是什么时候？ 答：2021年11月1日。 问：哦，对不起，李女士。稍微回到之前的问题—— SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第18/页 答：好的。 问：——你从纽约和日本农场收到的资金，有多少钱？ 答：大约500万。 问：你把那笔钱转到哪里了？ 答：汉密尔顿基金。 问：为什么把钱转到汉密尔顿基金？ 答：我是被告知要转到汉密尔顿基金。 问：你对汉密尔顿基金与喜马拉雅交易所之间的关系有何理解，如果有的话？ 答：汉密尔顿基金是喜马拉雅交易所的机构投资者。 问：那么，你对你转给汉密尔顿基金的500万美元会发生什么有何理解？ 答：他们会为我们购买喜币。 问：好的，谢谢你，李女士。你说正式上线是在2021年11月1日。根据喜马拉雅交易所网站的 说法，上线后喜币的价格发生了什么变化？ 答：上线后价格迅速上涨。 问：多快？ 答：大约一周内涨到20美元，最高价格大约55美元。 问：所以最高价格是55美元？ 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，反对费根森先生做证。 费根森律师说：我只是想问问题，法官大人。我会尽量更快些。 法官说：请继续。 问：你购买喜币的价格是多少？ 答：10美分。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第19/页 问：提醒我们，你从喜币配额中大约有多少喜币？ 答：大约6万。 问：提醒我们，你为这些支付了大约多少钱？ 答：6000美元。 问：当价格是55美元时，如果我可以请你做个数学运算，你的喜币大约价值多少？ 答：大约300万美元。 问：李女士，什么是喜币锁币？ 答：大约在11月20日左右，郭文贵说每个人需要把我们的喜币锁三年，锁90%的喜币三年。 问：每个人的喜币或90%的喜币会如何被锁币？ 答：我们将填写一份来自喜马拉雅交易所的表格，并将其返回给喜马拉雅交易所，我们的币 将转入一个名为FMV的公司的账户，FMV账户。 问：FMV代表什么？ 答：Freedom Media Ventures自由媒体创投。 问：FMV或自由媒体创投是什么？ 答：这是新GTV的公司。 问：我们会谈到这个问题，但据您了解，谁控制了FMV？ 答：郭文贵。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否能请证人看一下标记为政府证据VI181的文件？如 果我们可以快速浏览一下。 问：李女士，这是什么视频？ 答：这是郭文贵的直播。 问：你当时看过吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第20/页 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物VI181。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我在进行询问前有一个问题——预备询问。 预审质证由辩方施洛夫律师进行。 问：李女士，你在什么时候看过这个视频？ 答：在这次直播时。 问：哪一年？ 答：2021年。 施洛夫律师说：谢谢你。法官大人，我没有异议。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI181被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以继续播放它了。 （视频播放） 费根森律师说：好的。洛夫特斯女士，我们可以调出翻译，政府证物VI——对不起。根据协 议，法官大人，政府提交政府证物VI181-T。 法官说：它被接纳了。 （政府证物VI181-T被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：我们可以调出那个，洛夫特斯女士。好的。我们可以放大文本部分吗？ 费根森律师问：好的，李女士，这个直播的日期是什么？ 答：是2021年12月1日。 费根森律师说：那我来读一下文本。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，抱歉。能否让我和政府讨论一下。 法官说：可以。 （律师商议） SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第21/页 施洛夫律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 费根森律师说：我们可以公布这个，洛夫特斯女士。我来读一下文本。它写道：“许多战友询 问代持喜币的问题，许多人发消息，但我不能一一回复。我现在让小迷妹发一个：我代表许 多战友问了一个问题。这几天大家都在关注锁币。” 问：李女士，锁币是什么意思？ 答：锁是指锁住的币。 问：关于锁币。现在一个问题—— 施洛夫律师说：对不起，法官大人。我没听清她说的是什么。 法官说：李女士，锁币是什么意思？ 证人说：是的，锁是中文。意思是—— 法官说：低帽吗？ 费根森律师说：锁仓。 证人说：锁仓喜币。 费根森律师说：”现在一个问题是联盟说GTV公司帮助大家持有资金，但喜马拉雅交易所发 给我们的邮件中的公司名称与我们的GTV重建项目的公司名称不同。两个公司，自由媒体 或Virtual有限公司，哪个是我们的GTV公司？战友们可以放心签署喜马拉雅交易所发来的 邮件吗？首先，喜马拉雅交易所提供的文件可以放心签署。其次，新GTV公司，叫FMV，是 一般的名义股东。我还要告诉你们，对于你们丢失的每一枚币，七哥会负责。喜马拉雅交 易所和联盟给你们的任何文件，七哥会全权负责。” 费根森律师问：李女士，你对郭文贵在这里讨论的内容有什么理解？ 答：当支持者问及新实体的名字时，是否应该把币发送到那里，郭文贵确认是的，我们可以 把币发送到FMV，因为那是新GTV公司。他还保证了喜币，如果你丢失任何币，他会负责。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第22/页 问：李女士，那时你知道FMV的董事是谁吗？ 答：不知道。 问：你后来知道FMV的董事是谁吗？ 答：知道。 问：是谁？ 答：名字是何浩然。 问：你能拼一下给法庭书记员吗？ 答：H-E, H-A-O-R-A-N。 问：你是怎么知道何浩然是FMV的董事的？ 答：因为有一天律师发给我一个文件让我签署，文件显示何浩然是FMV的董事。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否请您展示标记为政府证物VI34的文件给证人看？ 问：李女士，这是什么文件？ 答：这是律师发给我的邮件，要求我签署文件。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物VI34。 法官说：有异议吗？ 施洛夫律师说：没有，法官大人。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI34被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：我们可以公布，洛夫特斯女士。洛夫特斯女士，我们可以从最后一页开始 吗？现在可以向上滚动一页。 费根森律师问：好的，李女士，你说这是律师发给你的邮件吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第23/页 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以放大底部邮件的文本吗？ 问：左上方这封邮件的日期是什么？ 答：2022年9月10日。 问：是谁发的？ 答：是Cherise Archibald发的。 问：她是谁？ 答：她是BVI的律师。 费根森律师说：我来读一下正文。它写道：“你好，木兰。我相信你一切安好。我附上了一份 决议，任命你为自由媒体创投有限公司的授权代表，以操作喜马拉雅交易所钱包。请你在附 加文件中的名字旁边签名。提前感谢。”我们可以向上滚动一下。再看下一封邮件。 费根森律师问：好的，李女士，你能读一下你的回复吗？ 答：我说，“你好，Cherise，我在文件中找不到我的名字。你能再检查一下吗？谢谢。” 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以看一下这封邮件的顶部吗？ 不，下一个，谢谢。 好的，她回复道：“亲爱的木兰，我对此感到抱歉。请忽略之前的邮件。 ”洛夫特斯女士，现在我们能否展示标记为政府证物VI35的文件给证人看？ 费根森律师问：好的，李女士，这是邮件的附件吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物VI35。 法官说：没有异议吗？ 施洛夫律师说：没有，法官大人。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI35被接纳为证据） SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第24/页 费根森律师说：可以公布��？洛夫特斯女士，我们先放大顶部部分。 检方律师费根森先生提问： 问：好的，李女士，你看到顶部中间加粗部分写着“自由媒体创投有限公司的唯一董事书面 决议”吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后我读下一行，上面写着“我，何浩然，作为公司的唯一董事……”这家公司在哪里注 册的？ 答：BVI。 问：何浩然这个名字，是你之前提到的人吗？ 答：是的。 问：在中文中，通常姓在前吗？ 答：是的，我们叫他何浩然。 问：所以何浩然，姓是什么？ 答：何。 问：好的，谢谢你，李女士。 费根森律师说：那我来读一下说明部分。它写道：“鉴于：喜马拉雅交易所（以下简称 ‘交易所’）是一个加密生态系统，提供金融服务、加密专业知识和可信度，并且是一 个受监管、透明和安全的加密交易所。 ”它写道：“公司在交易所（以下简称‘账户’）中已有一个现有账户，用于在线虚拟交 易。 账户通过虚拟交易平台持有和管理。 ”它写道：“公司希望移除并替换2021年10月31日任命的公司的授权代表Alexandros Hadjicharalambous。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第25/页 “公司因此建议任命郝甜为其新授权代表，以访问、操作和管理其在交易所持有的账 户，并可根据公司不时的指示行事。 ”李女士，郝甜是谁？ 答：郝甜是支持者之一。 问：她做什么工作？ 洛夫特斯女士，您可以往下拉。 答：她曾是G Fashion的董事。 法官说：什么的董事？ 证人说：G Fashion。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以放大签名栏。 费根森律师问：好的，谁是这个文件中列出的唯一董事？ 答：何浩然。 问：是哪家公司的唯一董事？ 答：自由媒体创投有限公司，FMV。 问：在收到这个文件之前，李女士，你曾听说过他吗？ 答：没有。 问：据你所知，何浩然在这个运动中的角色是什么？ 答：我不知道。 问：你对他是谁有什么理解？ 施洛夫律师说：她今天的理解，还是当时的理解？ 问：你今天的理解是什么？ 答：他是郭文贵的家庭成员之一。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第26/页 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以把这个文件拿下。 问：李女士，有没有某个时候你帮助支持者投资你昨天提到的数字银行项目？ 答：有的。 问：那是什么投资项目？ 答：数字银行是郭文贵——这是一个专门为支持者设立的投资项目。 这项投资将用于购买一家数字银行。 问：大约什么时候开始为数字银行项目筹集资金？ 答：大约在2022年初。 问：你是怎么帮助人们投资数字银行的？ 答：郭文贵让我在澳大利亚设立一个基金，在喜马拉雅联盟中，想要投资数字银行的成员可 以到我的基金进行投资，这样我们就可以一起投资。 问：你的基金叫什么名字？ 答：Ashwood。 问：谁推广了数字银行投资？ 答：郭文贵。 问：郭文贵说了些什么？ 答：他说这是一个非常好的投资机会，非常难得，我们会有很好的投资回报，并且还可以获 得另一家数字银行和一家博彩公司的牌照，但后来博彩牌照被取消了。 问：郭文贵有没有说过可以用喜币投资数字银行？ 答：没有。郭文贵说这次投资不能卖掉你的喜币来投资。 问：那么怎么投资？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第27/页 答：你必须用美元支付。 问：李女士，你的基金Ashwood筹集了多少钱，或者说有多少钱被送到你的基金Ashwood ？ 答：大约800万美元。 问：有多少支持者投资了？ 答：大约55名成员。 问：你把这些钱送到哪里了？ 答：汉密尔顿基金。 问：你什么时候送的钱？ 答：大约在2022年4月。 问：在你送出800万美元支持者的钱之后，发生了什么？ 答：什么也没发生，然后大约在2022年7月，我问余建明，进展如何，余建明说他们还在和有 关部门办理一些文件，我们需要等待，但他说我们的钱是安全的，没有被使用，所有的开支 都是其他投资者的钱。 问：李女士，据你所知，是否真的购买了一家或两家银行和一个博彩网站？ 答：没有。 问：李女士，什么是卡项目？ 答：卡项目是如果你购买G-Clubs卡，你会得到相同数量的GTV股票。 问：这是什么类型的卡？ 答：G-Clubs卡。 问：大约什么时候开始提供G-Clubs卡项目？ 答：在2021年初。 问：卡项目中是否有农场贷款部分？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第28/页 答：是的。因为G-Clubs卡起价1万美元，最高可达5万美元，所以如果你的投资少于1万美元 ，可以通过农场借款项目进行。 问：通过农场贷款项目购买G-Clubs卡的最低金额是多少？ 答：是1万美元。 问：李女士，谁推广了卡片项目？ 答：郭文贵。 问：他说了什么？ 答：他说如果你购买G-Clubs卡，你可以得到相同数量的股票。 法官说：什么的股票？ 证人说：GTV股票。 问：李女士，你熟悉一家叫Crane的公司吗？ 答：我从郭文贵的直播中听说过。 问：Crane是什么公司？ 答：Crane是一家接收卡项目资金的公司。 问：据你所知，为什么当前项目的钱没有直接汇到G-Clubs？ 答：那时G-Clubs公司的银行账户有一些问题。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否请您展示标记为政府证物VI55的文件给证人看？ 对不起，VI155。洛夫特斯女士，我们可以稍微滚动一下。 问：好的，李女士，这是什么视频？ 答：这是郭文贵的直播。 问：你当时看过这个直播吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：好的。政府提交政府证物VI155。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第29/页 法官说：没有异议吗？ 施洛夫律师说：有一个问题，法官大人。 预审质证由辩方施洛夫律师进行。 问：李女士，你第一次看这个视频是哪年哪月？ 答：是在—— 问：对不起？ 答：2021年。 问：哪个月？ 答：我记不清了。 问：你是否在检察官办公室再次观看了这个视频？ 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我没有异议。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI155被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：好的，洛夫特斯女士，我们可以回去公布并播放这个视频的一些部分。 （视频播放） 费根森律师说：我们在这里暂停。 洛夫特斯女士，我们能否先展示给各方和证人看政府证物VI155-T？我们可以滚动一下。 请放大这个部分，洛夫特斯女士。 政府提交政府证物VI155-T。 施洛夫律师说：没有异议。 法官说：证物被接纳。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第30/页 （政府证物VI155-T被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：好的，洛夫特斯女士，我们可以缩小并公布这个文件，请从顶部开始滚动。 检方律师费根森律师提问： 问：李女士，这里列出的日期是什么？ 答：是——是—— 问：它上面写的是2021年3月8日吗？ 答：对不起，是3月—— 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我们可以同意这个文件—— 答：2021年3月8日。 费根森律师说：好的。可以继续滚动。好的，请放大文本部分，只是声明文本。我可以读一 下文本。它写道： “好，兄弟姐妹们，今天由于时间限制，GTV，我谈到了50%，啊，那这两天我有时间 ，我要谈谈G-Clubs和G Fashion。和你们想的完全不一样。在我谈之前，我想告诉 你们，对于G Fashion，到目前为止，已经投资了2500万到3000万美元，没有任何回 报。G-Clubs卖了多少？大约2.5亿美元。大约10%以上用于研发，与你们无关。 G-Clubs，2.5万张卡，里面有2.5万人。大家需要记住，现在大家都知道赠送给你们 的礼物超出了你们的原值。最多，你花5万或10万美元，买两张或三张卡。我想告诉 大家，任何在今年5月之后购买卡的人……在3月之后，5月……就是那一张……汇款 给Crane，你们所有的……你想要卡——”对不起。汇款给Crane。李女士，那是你之 前提到的公司吗？ 答：是的。 问：它说，“你想要卡还是股票。对于想要卡的人，你需要支付管理费。如果你不想要卡，那 么你就不需要支付管理费。你可以只要股票。但是，如果……但是你必须先拿到卡。一年后 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第31/页 ，如果你不想支付管理费，那么卡将自动取消。然后那张卡不能转让，因为它是发给你的。 不能转让。不过，它可以继承。不能转让。这完全由你决定。不过，对于那些最初买卡的人 ，我们称他们为正式买卡者，这些卡可以继承和转让。不过，这两种卡，任何情况下都不能 退货。就像原来的普通卡一样，不能退货。此外，这张卡将来要做什么？我再告诉大家， G-Clubs将是未来G系列金融和所有……和战友们爆料革命走向世界的通行证，也是未来 新中国联邦护照的前身。严格来说，这是新中国联邦的最早的身份证。” 李女士，“买两张或三张卡”的那句话，你对买两张或三张卡的理解是什么？ 答：如果你的投资超过5万美元，你可以组合购买多张卡以匹配你的投资金额。 问：你是什么意思？ 答：例如，你可以买一张5万美元的卡，或者你可以买两张，这样你的投资金额就是10万美 元。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以把这个拿下。 问：李女士，你的农场是否为卡项目或其他相关的组件借款项目筹集过资金？ 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：反对使用“组件借款项目”这个词，没有相关证词说明。 法官说：反对有效。 问：你大约筹集了多少钱？ 答：大约20万美元，总共。 问：哪个实体收到了这些钱？ 答：HAA集团。 问：那笔钱后来怎么样了？ 答：然后我们被告知要把钱汇给H-C-H-K。 问：谁告诉你的？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第32/页 答：长岛哥。 问：据你了解，谁指示长岛哥这么做的？ 答：郭文贵。 问：你把钱汇给了哪家公司？ 答：H-C-H-K Technology。 问：你对那家公司有什么了解？ 答：那是郭文贵的总部公司之一。 问：当时你还知道其他信息吗？ 答：不，什么都不知道。 问：在你汇出那笔钱时，你和H-C-H-K有借款协议吗？ 答：没有。 问：你和H-C-H-K有任何合同吗？ 答：没有。 问：你后来有没有收到过和H-C-H-K的什么合同？ 答：没有。 问：你后来有没有关于那次汇款收到其他协议？ 答：有。 问：你什么时候收到那份协议的？ 答：大约一年后。 问：你能解释一下那份协议是什么吗？ 答：那份协议是我们与新西兰农场签订的，新西兰农场会代表其他农场与H-C-H-K签订协议 ，因为我们被告知H-C-H-K无法与每个农场签约，太多了。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第33/页 问：你把钱汇给新西兰农场了吗？ 答：没有。 问：李女士，你对你汇给H-C-H-K的20万美元将会被用于什么有何了解？ 答：是用于投资GTV股票。 问：你或你的农场有没有因为那笔钱获得GTV股票？ 答：没有。 问：你或你的农场有没有因为那笔钱获得利息支付？ 答：没有。 问：顺便问一下，李女士，每投资1美元在卡项目中，郭文贵说投资者会得到多少股票？ 答：对于新GTV，你可以得到10股，所以1美元可以得到10股新GTV股票。 问：你得到了每1美元10股的股票吗？ 答：没有。 问：李女士，你购买过G-Clubs卡吗？ 答：是的。 问：你购买了多少张？ 答：一张。对不起，两张。 问：你什么时候购买的第一张？ 答：大约在2021年4月。 问：你怎么支付的？ 答：HDO。 问：提醒我们一下，HDO是什么？ 答：HDO是1 HDO等于1美元。它是喜马拉雅交易所的一种加密货币。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第34/页 问：你为你的G-Clubs卡支付了多少？ 答：5万HDO。 问：你为什么在2021年4月购买那张卡？ 答：因为G-Clubs卡是我们新中国联邦的身份证。 问：谁说的？ 答：郭文贵。 问：谈到第二张卡，你什么时候购买的第二张卡？ 答：大约在2022年7月。 问：你怎么支付的那张卡？ 答：因为我的一个农场成员想退款G-Clubs卡，所以我从他那里买了。 问：你是用HDO还是美元支付的？ 答：美元。我把钱转给了另一个成员。 问：那张卡多少钱？ 答：1万美元。 问：你把那1万美元汇给了谁？ 答：给了想退款的支持者。 问：你能解释一下——实际上，撤回。你和谁讨论过那个退款？ 答：和郭文贵。 问：他对那个退款请求说了什么？ 答：他说当时不要退款，因为那个成员真的背叛了我们，开始公开批评郭文贵并参加叛徒的 直播。 问：你为什么还是给他退款了？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第35/页 答：因为他是我的秘密翻译组成员之一，并且之前工作很努力。我觉得我有责任给他退款。 问：所以你给他汇了1万美元。那他买的G-Clubs卡怎么样了？ 答：他的卡转到了我的名下。 问：李女士，你之前提到过新GTV和FMV。郭文贵说支持者如何投资FMV？ 答：所以FMV，你需要把美元发送到喜马拉雅交易所购买HDO，然后把HDO发送到FMV在 喜马拉雅交易所的账户。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否展示标记为政府证物VI65的文件给证人 看？ 李女士，这是什么文件？ 答：这是一个新GTV合同。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物VI65。 法官说：有异议吗？ 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我可以问一个快速问题吗？ 法官说：可以。 预审质证由辩方施洛夫律师进行。 问：李女士，你看过这份文件吗？ 答：没有，我只是签了。 施洛夫律师说：没有异议，法官大人。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI65被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：好的。洛夫特斯女士，我们可以公布吗？ 检方律师费根森先生提问： SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第36/页 问：好的，李女士，你看到中间红色文字写着“修订日期为2022年2月16日”了吗？ 答：看到了。 问：我们可以继续——哦，让我问你，李女士，你是通过什么方式收到这份文件的？ 答：通过电子邮件。 问：你为什么收到这份文件？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。 问：你对为什么收到这份文件有什么理解？ 答：因为这是新GTV，所以我们开始签署新GTV股票购买合同。 法官说：你说的“我们”是什么意思？ 证人说：我们是指我们的支持者。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以看第2页吗？有异议吗？好的。我来读前两 句话。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我们可以进行边栏会议讨论吗？ 法官说：好的。 施洛夫律师说：谢谢 （边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，她作证说她从未读过这份文件。没有问题可以问这份文件，因为 她从未读过。而对陪审团唯一重要的是，她当时是否读过，是否依赖于此，以及她的依赖是 什么。如果她从未读过，那么没有什么可以问她的。 法官说：所以你是说她不能验证它，因为她没有读过它？ 施洛夫律师说：不。我反对他向她询问关于文件的问题。她不能作证，因为她从未读 过。 法官说：所以你同意它是可接受的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第37/页 费根森律师说：它在证据中。 施洛夫律师说：我们没有反对。 法官说：好的，它被接纳了。所以你打算问她当时理解的问题，还是你打算做什么？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，我们可以与证人一起审阅证据中的文件。这是梅德拉诺先 生全部证词的内容。他没有投资或其他事情。而这份文件是发给她的。我们将一起浏 览它，以向陪审团展示这份文件。 施洛夫律师说：我们不能一起浏览。 她不是专家证人。她不是总结证人。她是事实证人，法官大人。 法官说：所以任何在证据中的文件都可以由任何证人朗读。 施洛夫律师说：实际上——不，我认为必须有一个相关性问题。她今天要作证的内 容没有任何相关性。唯一——唯一与这份文件相关的是她说，我依赖于此进行投 资。 费根森律师说：相关性不是一个因素—— 施洛夫律师说：我还没说完。所以如果你—— 法官说：所以它相关是因为她参与了投资？ 费根森律师说：是的，这份文件是发给她的。 施洛夫律师说：而她从未读过。这就是为什么—— 法官说：我允许提问。 费根森律师说：谢谢。 （回到公开法庭） 法官说：反对无效。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第38/页 检方律师费根森先生提问： 问：李女士，我来读前两句话。它写道：“本修订的机密信息备忘录旨在与有兴趣评估投资自 由媒体创投有限公司机会的特定方进行讨论。” 翻译员：律师，如果你能慢一点。 问：好的。公司是于2021年6月15日在英属维尔京群岛成立的一家新公司。 洛夫特斯女士，你能放大第三段吗？这里写道，公司，True Horizon LTD（公司的母 公司），继续。李女士，True Horizon LTD是什么？ 答：我不知道。 问：除了在这里读到，你听说过这个名字吗？ 答：没有。 问：我们可以翻到第九页吗？如果我们可以放大第二段。你看到第二行写着，李女士，每股 等值的喜马拉雅美元，定义为每股多少喜美元。 答：是的。 问：你理解这是什么意思？ 答：你可以用喜美元投资。 问：我们可以缩小。我们可以翻到第11页。对不起，洛夫特斯女士，我们能快速回到第九页 吗？抱歉。我们能放大首段的优先投资者定价部分吗？ 我来读这段话。除了向本次发行中的合格投资者提供普通股外，公司还打算向一群 先前支持过类似媒体项目、爆料革命和公司使命声明的个人投资者提供普通股，这 些个人投资者有机会以每股1美元的价格购买最多10股普通股，总共可达150亿股， 或在喜马拉雅交易所成功获取的每股等值的喜马拉雅美元。 李女士，根据这份文件，你每1美元或1喜美元可以获得多少股票？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第39/页 答：20股。 问：现在我们翻到第11页。洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以放大董事会和赞助部分的下半部 分。 李女士，在构成部分，你看到它写道，目前已任命一位执行董事，公司将邀请多达四 位独立董事。你看到了吗？ 答：看到了。 问：我们可以缩小，然后翻到下一页。 这个文件中的一位执行董事是谁？ 答：王雁平。 问：在非执行董事下，你能读一下第一个名字吗？ 答：Aaron Mitchell。 问：Aaron Mitchell是谁？ 答：他是郭文贵的律师之一。 问：下面写着John A. Morgan。你曾经和John A. Morgan谈过吗？ 答：没有。 问：如果我们继续向下滚动。这三个人是这个文件中列出的执行和非执行董事，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：李女士，你之前作证说收到了一份显示FMV唯一董事的文件。你还记得吗？ 答：记得。 问：在那份你通过电子邮件收到的文件中，FMV的唯一董事是谁？ 答：何浩然。 问：何浩然在这份文件中有列出吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第40/页 答：没有。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否请您展示标记为政府证物VI-116的文件给证人看？李女士，这 是什么文件？ 答：这是股票购买协议。 问：是FMV的吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物VI-116。 施洛夫律师说：李女士，你看过这份文件吗？ 证人说：当我收到时，我只是签了需要签的地方。 施洛夫律师说：所以答案是没有？ 证人说：没有。 施洛夫律师说：你第一次读这份文件，是和这个检察官一起读的，对吗？ 证人说：对。 施洛夫律师说：在他的办公室里，对吗？ 证人说：是的。 施洛夫律师说：我没有异议。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI-116被接纳为证据） 检方律师费根森先生提问： 问：李女士，是你向政府提供了这份文件吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第41/页 问：我们可以公布政府证物VI-116。洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以稍微向下滚动。如果我们 可以展示给证人看另一份文件政府证物VI-115。李女士，这是什么文件？ 答：这是股票期权授予通知。 问：是FMV的吗？ 答：是的，FMV的新的GTV股票。 问：你签了这份文件吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物VI-115。 施洛夫律师说：李女士，你在见检察官之前读过这份文件吗？ 证人说：读过。 施洛夫律师说：你是在什么年份读的？ 证人说：2022年。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我没有异议。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI-115被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：我们可以公布吗？ 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们先放大顶部部分。李女士，在顶部说FMV LTD然后是股票期权授予 通知。你看到了吗？ 答：看到了。 问：这里的日期是什么？ 答：2022年3月8日。 问：上面写的名字是谁？ 答：是我。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第42/页 问：下面写着你被授予购买自由媒体创投有限公司普通股的期权，如下所述，我会跳到授予 详情。 它写着，购买公司10股普通股的价格为1美元。 李女士，你被授予的总股票数是多少？ 答：一百万股。 问：下面写着，你需要支付多少才能获得这一百万股？ 答：十万美元。 问：我们可以向下滚动。你签了这份文件吗？ 答：签了。 问：你收到过签字的副本吗？ 答：没有。 问：你后来得到过FMV的股票吗？ 答：没有。这个新GTV项目停了，所以我们没能完成这个项目。 问：郭文贵说这个项目为什么停了？ 答：因为GTV被关闭了。 问：GTV平台什么时候关闭的？ 答：大约在2021年7月，差不多那个时候。 施洛夫律师说：她说的是2021年吗？ 问：如果我们能回到文件顶部。 答：大约在2022年，抱歉。 问：李女士，新GTV关闭后，接下来的平台是什么？ 答：我们称之为新平台。 问：A-I-A-I是什么？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第43/页 答：A-I-A-I是新平台的名字。 问：这个名字是谁起的？ 答：我不知道，但是郭文贵在直播中说了这个名字，所以我们知道了。 问：郭文贵什么时候宣布A-I-A-I是新平台的？ 答：大约在2022年7月或8月。 问：这个新平台有没有真正存在过？ 答：没有，它失败了。 问：郭文贵说过为什么失败了吗？ 答：他说在直播中因为投资者认为这个不好。他们不想投资这个平台。 问：李女士，A15是什么？ 答：A15是在这个新平台失败之后的下一个投资项目，叫A15。 问：郭文贵说A15是什么？ 答：A15意味着我们可以获得5%的盖特股份，5%的G-Clubs股份和5%的喜马拉雅交易所股 份。 问：你提到盖特，总的来说，盖特是什么？ 答：盖特是一个社交媒体平台。 问：据你了解，谁创建了盖特？ 答：郭文贵。 问：李女士，A15是什么时候开始的，或者郭文贵是什么时候开始推广A15的？ 答：大约在2022年10月。 问：郭文贵说过为什么要做A15吗？ 答：因为A-I-A-I项目失败了。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第44/页 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否请您展示标记为政府证物VI-114的文件给证人 看？ 李女士，这是什么文件？ 答：这是A15的合同。 问：你收到过这份文件吗？ 答：收到了。 问：你当时仔细阅读过这份文件吗？ 答：没有。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物VI-114。 施洛夫律师说：李女士，你当时有没有读过这份文件？ 证人说：没有。 施洛夫律师说：你当时没有依赖这份文件中的任何信息，对吗？ 你当时已经掌握了这份文件中的所有信息，对吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，这不是交叉询问。 证人说：没有。 法官说：这些问题更适合在交叉询问中提出。 施洛夫律师说：我只是想确保她当时没有读过这份文件。 法官说：那么你对接纳这份文件没有异议，对吗？ 施洛夫律师说：嗯，我有待定问题，因为她没有读过，所以她没有获得那份文件里的信息。 费根森律师说：这不是接纳的理由，法官大人。 法官说：文件被接纳。 （政府证物VI-114被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。我们可以公布这个文件吗，洛夫特斯女士？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第45/页 问：李女士，在我们等待时，投资A15的方式有哪些？ 答：他们可以用美元、HDO和G-Clubs卡来投资。 问：看着文件，你看到上面写着订阅文件，然后下面写着Ampleforth Capital LTD。你看到了 吗？ 答：看到了。 问：Ampleforth Capital LTD是什么？ 答：这是一个用于接收A15投资资金的公司。 问：你提到了几种投资方式？ 答：是的。 问：这些方式中哪些使用了Ampleforth Capital LTD？ 答：只有美元投资。 问：实际上，我们可以把这个文件拿下了，洛夫特斯女士。 李女士，A15持续了多久？ 答：大约三个月。 问：郭文贵说过为什么它停止了吗？ 答：它不是停止，而是被A10取代了。 问：郭文贵说A10是什么？ 答：A10是盖特的5%股份和喜马拉雅交易所的5%股份，所以不再有G-Clubs。 问：郭文贵说为什么这次投资中没有G-Clubs？ 答：因为如果他们把G-Clubs放在里面，成员的信息需要公开，他们不想成员信息被公开。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否请您展示标记为政府证物VI-160的文件给证人看？ 李女士，澄清一下，郭文贵大约什么时候开始推广A10的？ 答：2023年1月。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第46/页 问：李女士，这个视频现在在你的屏幕上吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是什么视频？ 答：这是郭文贵的直播。 问：这个视频的日期是什么？ 答：2023年2月11日。 问：你当时看过这个直播吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物VI-160。 施洛夫律师说：没有异议，法官大人。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI-160被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以公布并播放这个视频。 （视频播放） 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以在这里暂停。 问：李女士，你认得视频中的人吗？ 答：认得。 问：他们是谁？ 答：郭文贵和飞飞。 问：飞飞是谁？ 答：飞飞是支持者之一，她也是铁血组的成员。 费根森律师说：根据第10号协议，政府提交翻译版政府证物VI-160-T。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第47/页 施洛夫律师说：没有异议。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI-160-T被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：我们可以公布，洛夫特斯女士。 问：我来读一下文本。它写道：“你知道这张 卡，问这个项目。你知道这个概念是什么吗？这张卡的项目，原来的A0项目叫A15。A15变 成了A10，因为由于你们的缘故，G-Clubs的5%股份丢失了。但是你知道你得到了什么吗？ 超出了战友们的预期，你们中的任何人，如果你们投资A10，你们将持有同样的卡片，不需 要支付。同样，如果您使用该卡，您也可以拥有同样的股票。你不用再付钱了，对吗？事实 上，你并不是在投资 A10 项目。严格来说，您投资的是 A15 的放大版。这将使 G-Clubs 的 投资者处于何种境地？我们没有附上相关信息，但你们拥有 G-Clubs 的股份，分文不取。 如果我说我不傻，我不是傻瓜，我投资了一百万。我可以从 G-Clubs拿到一百万的卡。我也 是股东，拥有相同的股份。我得到了股份和卡片。我持有这两样东西，没有任何风险。你过 去用来买猪，对吗？每公斤肉多少钱？现在这是一头带着一群猪的猪，不管你买猪脚还是 猪头，都会有一群猪跟着你。战友们，没有人说你们想投资，但实际上你们是在投资并免费 获得卡片。你们拿到卡片并免费获得股份。这不是比A15更好吗？” 问：李女士，你能读一下飞飞的文字吗？ 答：每个人都很高兴得到一张卡。每个人都很高兴得到一张卡。 问：不，你没有理解核心。很多人说，为什么它变成了A15然后是A10？那股票，G-Clubs目 前没有盈利。你只能拿到5%的年薪。你可以拿到它和未来所谓的利润。但一旦你得到卡， 它就是你100%的权益，你还得到股票。我得到了一百万的卡，还有一百万的股票。此外，我 还得到5%。怎么会有这么好的事？你可以提供折扣。还有一件事我要告诉你。卡最重要的 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第48/页 是什么？现在不管是卡还是股票，你都可以得到，你可以拥有卡，你可以拥有股票。我不认 为很多人理解G-Clubs卡的意义。这也是——我们可以在这里停下。这里他在说什么？ 答：他在说A10。A10比A15好，因为当你投资A10时，你也可以免费得到同样数量的 G-Clubs卡。 问：在A10期间提供的G-Clubs卡的价格是多少？ 答：那时候有一个新的——我们称之为新的G-Clubs。他们有两个新的卡级别。一个是50万 ，一个是100万。 问：那么你需要支付多少才能获得这些卡？ 答：5000万。 施洛夫律师说：对问题的形式提出反对。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 问：一个一个来说，你需要支付多少才能获得这两张新卡？ 答：所以对于50万的卡，你需要支付50万，但你也会得到50万的A10股票。如果是一百万的 卡，你得到一百万的G-Clubs卡，你会得到同样数量的一百万A10股票。 法官说：一百万什么？ 证人说：如果你买一百万的卡，你会得到一百万A10股票；或者你买一百万A10股票，你可以 免费得到一百万的G-Clubs卡。 问：作为投资者，参与A10的方式有哪些？ 答：他们也有三种方式。是的，你可以有三种方式。你可以用美元支付。你可以用HDO支 付。你可以购买G-Clubs卡。 问：李女士，在A10期间，你会把钱送到哪里，用美元购买G-Clubs卡？ 答：阿布扎比。 问：为什么要把钱送到阿布扎比？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第49/页 答：因为新的G-Clubs公司在阿布扎比成立。 问：这个新的G-Clubs公司大约在什么时候在阿布扎比成立的？ 答：大约在2022年底。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否请您展示标记为政府证物VI-189的文件给证人看？李女士，这 是什么视频？ 答：这是郭文贵的直播。 问：这次直播的日期是什么时候？ 答：2023年2月8日。 问：你当时看过这次直播吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物VI-189。 施洛夫律师说：没有异议。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI-189被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以公布并播放一些内容。 （媒体播放） 费根森律师说：我们可以在这里暂停。政府提交翻译版政府证物VI-189-T。 施洛夫律师说：没有异议。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI-189-T被接纳为证据） 检方律师费根森先生提问： SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第50/页 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以公布这个翻译文本。请放大文本。我来读一下文本，李女士。上 面写着，卡项目。请记住，新卡与原来的 G-Clubs没有任何关系。它是在阿布扎比成立的一 家完全独立的 G-Clubs 公司，但也是爆料革命的 G-Clubs 公司，具有相同的权益和功能。 它有两种。50 万卡和 100万卡。它将在三周内上架，大约三周，三周到四周。五十万卡和一 百万卡。 G Fashion 所享有的所有折扣、您的利益以及 G-Clubs 未来的任何荣誉，包括在新中国联 邦中的地位，包括如果您购买该卡，您将获得 A10 的一比一股份，这些都与该卡和股份相 同。同样，如果您投资 A10，您将无条件地获得一张同等金额的卡。这是否足够慷慨？不可 能今天有一半七哥这么说，还有一半我去日本看草根小哥，或者一半我去洛杉矶看小李。这 是不可能的。我必须全身完整地去日本，或者全身完整地地去洛杉矶，因为 G-Clubs 和 A10 是分不开的。因此，兄弟姐妹们请记住，购买这张卡就意味着拥有 A10 项目两个百分 之五的股份，购买股份就意味着自动拥有这张卡。这就像你回家有两个门。无论是走前门 还是后门，你都能回家。就是这么简单。不只是进前门和后门，走 G-Clubs 的 大额卡或走 前门都是一样的。李女士，你的理解，这里他在说什么？ 答：这里郭文贵介绍了一个在阿布扎比的新的G-Clubs公司，下面有两个新的G-Clubs会员 级别，分别是50万和100万，以及G-Clubs卡和A10项目的关系，所以你可以同时得到两者。 问：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以展示标记为政府证物VI-190的视频给证人看。李女士，这 是什么视频？ 答：这是郭文贵的直播。 问：这是同一次直播中的另一个片段吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物VI-190。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第51/页 法官说：有异议吗？ 施洛夫律师说：没有，法官大人。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI-190被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：我们可以播放一小段吗，洛夫特斯女士？ （媒体播放） 费根森律师说：政府提交翻译版政府证物VI-190-T。 施洛夫律师说：没有异议，法官大人。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI-190-T被接纳为证据） 检方律师费根森先生提问： 问：你能公布一下翻译文本吗？我来读一下翻译文本。那些需要补充冻结资金的人应该向 SEC支付冻结资金。当然，投资者肯定会有奖励。现在只要你投资A10项目，你就可以补充 原来的SEC冻结资金。你可以补充凤凰农场的冻结资金或任何补充资金。将会有同样的奖 励，同样的奖励。 大家都记得，在这个过程中，包括现在投资A10项目的许多新投资者，中介机构的每个农场 都需要看到3.5％、5.5％和7.5％的激励机制。对于任何带来新战友的人，都会有激励措施。 他们将获得3.5％、5.5％和7.5％的奖励。你如何分配是你自己的事。你可以与你的伙伴分 配，但这些奖励可以立即兑现。 问：李女士，你对郭文贵在这里谈论的内容有什么理解？ 答：他在谈论如果你投资A10或再投资，你可以获得喜币的激励。 问：当他提到冻结资金时，你理解这指的是什么？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第52/页 答：SEC是指首次GTV私募。如果你收到SEC退款，你可以再投资；或者如果你还没有收到 退款，你仍然可以提前支付投资。 问：当提到凤凰农场的冻结资金时，你对这指的是什么有什么理解？ 答：凤凰农场借款计划。 问：凤凰农场的负责人是谁？ 答：Sara 问：她的姓是什么？ 答：Sara Wei 问：你记得凤凰农场公司是什么吗？ 答：我不知道。 费根森律师说：我们可以把这个拿下，洛夫特斯女士。 问：李女士，你之前说过，投资A10的方式之一是HDO，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在A10期间，支持者可以直接向喜马拉雅交易所汇款吗？ 答：不行，那时喜马拉雅交易所的银行账户已经被冻结了。 问：那么人们如何用HDO购买A10股票呢？ 答：每个农场会帮助他们的成员购买HDO来投资A10。所以有两种方式在农场的帮助下购 买HDO。农场会记录想买HDO和想卖HDO的成员，并将他们匹配在一起，这样他们就可以 达成交易获得HDO。农场公司会把它发送到总部公司，并从FMV那里获得HDO，然后农场 会把HDO发送回支持者。 问：你提到从FMV获取HDO，你理解这是与锁币去的同一个FMV账户吗？ 答：是的，同一个。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第53/页 问：获取HDO是像美元的电汇转账一样，还是只是通过喜马拉雅交易所？我可以撤回。在 你当时的理解中，FMV如何将HDO转给农场？ 答：通过喜马拉雅交易所账户。 问：李女士，在A10期间，你或者其他人能从喜马拉雅交易所兑换HDO为美元吗？ 答：不能。 问：抛开HDO不谈，真实的美元会去哪儿？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。 费根森律师说：撤回。 问：美元会去哪儿？ 答：会到郭文贵总部公司。 问：李女士，你帮助协调了一些这些转账吗？ 答：是的。 问：你把转账发到哪些总部公司？ 答：盖特，G Fashion，G-Clubs。 问：你把钱发到的G-Clubs账户在哪里？ 答：在阿布扎比。 问：你用哪个公司进行这些转账？ 答：HAA Group。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否请您展示标记为政府证物VI-113的文件给证人看？李女士，这 是什么文件？ 答：这是我的银行付款声明。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物VI-113。 施洛夫律师说：我们有异议。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第54/页 法官说：你有异议。请上前一步。 （边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，这是一个外国银行账户。它没有认证，没有盖章，不符合适当的 证据接纳标准。 法官说：这不是她农场的业务记录吗？ 施洛夫律师说：没有某种程度的认证，这不是业务记录。没有任何认证。 费根森律师说：证人说了这是什么，法官大人。我们不需要认证。我们有一个活生生的证人 说这是她的银行转账记录。这是901认证。 卡拉马珠律师说：这���不能作为业务记录。 法官说：当她说“我的”时，她是什么意思？ 费根森律师说：这是她发送给盖特的转账记录。我们可以证明这是她HAA公司的业务记 录。 施洛夫律师说：她不是建立业务记录基础的适当证人。 费根森律师说：这是她的公司。 施洛夫律师说：先生，请让我说完。 法官说：她是处理业务交易的人吗？ 施洛夫律师说：她仍然不是记录的保管人。记录的保管人是银行。银行需要以某种方式认证 这些记录。否则，银行记录就是传闻，不适合作为证据接纳。卡拉马珠律师，如果你愿意， 可以插话。 卡拉马珠律师说：我想说，法官大人，如果他们试图将其作为业务记录接纳以证明其真实性 ，即电汇或其他情况，那么正确的基础是它是在普通业务过程中定期进行的，及时制作的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第55/页 这些是业务记录的要素。每个业务记录都是通过回答这四个问题来认证的。所以我认为她 显然不能为银行做这件事，我不知道她如何为她公司的单笔交易做这件事。 费根森律师说：如果可以，法官大人。我很乐意证明这是HAA公司的业务记录，她创建的公 司，唯一管理它的人，这是HAA业务记录的一部分。 施洛夫律师说：这不是HAA的业务记录。这是银行的业务记录。 费根森律师说：这不对。 施洛夫律师说：如果HAA保存记录并生成了其在正常业务过程中保存的记录，那么她可以 作为HAA的保管人作证。据你所说，任何一个人都可以走进来说这些是Chase的业务记 录。是的，我通过电子邮件收到了这些记录。我作为Chase的保管人可以因此将其作为传 闻规则的例外提交。 这不是传闻规则例外的创建目的。 费根森律师说：如果可以，法官大人。 法官说：如果你能让他说完。等一下。继续。 费根森律师说：如果我可以说，法官大人。这不是业务记录规则的工作方式。第二巡回法院 长期以来采用了所谓的“采纳业务记录规则”，这意味着如果你有一个会计公司，并且你接收 到银行账户对账单，即使它们是由银行制作的，它们也成为你自己业务的业务记录的一部 分。这在第二巡回法院的法律中是明确的。 卡拉马珠律师说：你可以有一个业务记录，是企业接收到的记录。但即使那样，你仍然必须 奠定相同的基础，即在正常业务过程中，定期进行的业务，所有相同的业务记录要求都适 用。这就是我要说的全部。 法官说：好的。那么你要奠定一个基础。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第56/页 费根森律师说：我会奠定基础。 法官说：反对无效。 （回到公开法庭上） 法官说：你可以继续。 费根森律师问：李女士，你之前作证说你用HAA发送转账，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：谁创建了HAA？ 答：我。 问：谁控制了HAA？ 答：我。 问：你了解其运作情况吗？ 答：是的。 问：你代表HAA执行了这里的电汇转账吗？ 答：是的。 问：作为你与HAA合作的一部分，你是否收到了有关电汇转账的银行记录？ 答：是的。 问：在控制HAA的正常业务过程中，接收和维护这些银行记录是你业务的一部分吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物VI-113。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI-113被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：请公布。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第57/页 问：李女士，在左上角，授权人的名字是什么？ 答：是我。 问：这笔电汇转账的日期是什么时候？ 答：2023年3月3日。 问：你在2023年3月3日发送了多少钱？ 答：大约64万美元。 问：你把钱转到了哪里？ 答：盖特。 问：这是受益人列出的吗？ 答：是的，盖特 USA, Inc. 问：盖特的地址是什么？ 答：纽约州纽约市哥伦布圆环 3号 20层（3C)，邮编 10019。 问：再往下看，谁是汇款人？ 答：HAA Group PTY。这是我的公司。 问：指令给受益人上写着付款，谁给的指示？ 答：是我。 问：为什么你写付款？ 答：因为这是购买HDO的付款。 问：这是你理解的用途吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第58/页 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否请您展示标记为政府证物VI-106的文件给证人看？李女士，这 是你为HAA收到的另一份银行记录吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物VI-106。 施洛夫律师说：同之前的异议，法官大人。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI-106被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：我们可以公布 问：我们等待的时候，李女士，这是HAA的另一笔转账吗？ 答：是的。 问：这笔转账的日期是什么时候？ 答：2023年2月17日。 问：你发送了多少钱？ 答：大约50万美元。 问：你把50万美元发送到了哪里？ 答：GFNY Inc.那是G Fashion公司。 问：GFNY Inc.的地址是什么？ 答：纽约州纽约市哥伦布圆环 3号 20层，邮编 10019-8760 问：这和盖特的地址是一样的吗？ 答：是的。 问：李女士，关注页面上列出的价值日期， SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第59/页 页面上的前两个数字，这个文件中的月份和日期是哪一个？ 答：17日，17是日期，02是月份，二月。 问：你在发送这笔电汇转账时，你在哪里？你在什么国家？ 答：在澳大利亚。 问：再往下看，谁是汇款人？ 答：HAA Group PTY，这是我的公司。 问：指令给受益人上写着HDO付款，为什么你写HDO付款？ 答：因为这是购买HDO的付款。 问：这是你理解的用途吗？ 答：是的。 如果我们能展示标记为政府证物VI-107的文件给证人看。李女士，这是你在HAA Group工 作期间收到的另一份银行记录吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物VI-107。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，有异议，我只是指向文件右上角。 法官说：我理解你的异议，你会奠定基础，对吗？ 施洛夫律师说：是的，法官大人。 问：你在HAA Group的工作中是否收到银行记录？ 答：是的。 问：你是否在HAA的正常业务过程中收到这些记录？ 答：这是账户发给我的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第60/页 问：谁发给你的？谁发给你这个—— 答：文康。 问：文康是谁？ 答：文康负责联盟财务部门。 问：他是联盟成员吗？ 答：是的。 问：你说他在财务部门吗？ 答：是的。 问：谁控制联盟？ 答：郭文贵。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物VI-107。 施洛夫律师说：反对。 法官说：接纳。我理解你的持续反对。 （政府证物VI-107被接纳为证据） 检方费根森律师提问： 问：我们可以公布吗？现在，李女士，我们刚才看了一笔转账记录，转给GFNY。这份记录反 映了你转给GFNY后的情况吗？ 答：大约两个月后，GFNY将钱退还给我。 问：在那两个月中发生了什么重要事件？ 答：郭文贵和王雁平被捕。 问：李女士，专注于退回的金额，501,977,000美元。这和你转给GFNY的金额一样吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在2023年4月17日收到了这些钱？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第61/页 答：是的，大约两个月后。 问：李女士，你收到GFNY退回的钱后做了什么？ 答：我被告知将其转给G-Clubs ME。 问：G-Clubs ME的银行账户在哪里？ 答：在阿布扎比。 问：如果我们可以展示标记为政府证物VI-108的文件给证人看。李女士，这是HAA的一个银 行账户的银行记录吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物VI-108。 施洛夫律师说：同样反对，法官大人。 法官说：如果你能问一些基础性问题。 问：你控制HAA吗？ 答：是的，我是董事。 问：作为HAA的业务的一部分，你是否发送过电汇转账？ 答：是的。 问：你是否作为HAA的业务的一部分收到过转账记录的副本？ 答：是的。 问：你是否在HAA的正常业务过程中保存和维护这些记录？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物VI-108。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI-108被接纳为证据） SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第62/页 费根森律师说：我们可以公布吗？ 法官说：费根森先生，关于未来的业务记录，你可以问这些记录是否像其他记录一样是作为 业务记录在正常业务过程中保存的。 费根森律师说：明白了，谢谢你，法官大人。 卡拉马珠律师说：法官大人，对不起。我认为他还应该问是谁发给他的记录。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我们能否请你到边栏谈话？ 法官说：好的。 （边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我重申我的异议，特别是针对107号证物。证人作证说她没有从 银行得到那份记录。她没有从任何联盟以外的人得到这份记录。这份记录不是作为业务记 录适当地接收的。首先，它不是由银行发送的；其次，它不是在正常的业务过程中保存的。 法官说：我的理解是，它是由郭文贵世界中的一位财务官员发送的。对吗？ 费根森律师说：是的。 施洛夫律师说：这是由一个不在银行工作的人发送的，发送的是由银行保存的记录， 而这个银行并不是她进行业务往来的银行，我认为是NAB。107号证物中的银行被 称为NAT Bank，这不是她保持任何业务关系的银行。文件不是由银行发给她的。没 有证据表明接收这个银行账户并将其交给她的人在正常业务过程中保存了它。根本 没有这方面的证词。出于这些原因，我请求法院删除有关该特定证物的证词。它与 法院接纳的其他证物不同。 费根森律师说：我们认为有足够的基础来接纳这份业务记录。我们还认为有足够的 基础来作为代理声明。郭文贵控制了联盟和财务部门。这个人在财务部门工作。他 把它发给了李女士，无论如何，它都可以接纳。它是正确接纳的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第63/页 法官说：只要她在正常业务过程中接收到这份业务记录并保存了它，它就可以接纳。 （回到公开法庭上） 法官说：你可以继续。 费根森律师问：李女士，这笔转账的日期是什么时候？ 答：2023年5月3日。 问：那么这大约是在你从GFNY收到退款后的两周？ 答：是的。 问：这笔转账的金额是多少？ 答：50万美元。 问：这与你之前转给GFNY的金额一样吗？ 答：是的。 问：你把这些钱转到哪里？ 答：G-Clubs ME Limited。 问：G-Clubs ME Limited的地址是什么？ 答：阿联酋阿布扎比AL Khatem单元46。 问：谁是汇款人？ 答：HAA Group PTY。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否展示标记为政府证物VI-109的文件给证人看？ 李女士，这是你为HAA收到的另一份业务记录吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师：政府提交政府证物VI-109。 施洛夫律师说：同样反对。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第64/页 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI-109被接纳为证据） 法官说：我知道这是一个持续的异议。 费根森律师问：我们可以公布吗，洛夫特斯女士？洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以放大一点， 以便更容易阅读。谢谢。 李女士，这笔转账的日期是什么时候？ 答：2023年5月9日。 问：这是在第一次G-Clubs ME转账后的六天吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在2023年5月9日发送了多少钱？ 答：大约68万美元。 问：你把这些钱转到了哪里？ 答：G-Clubs ME Limited。 问：这是同一个阿联酋阿布扎比地址吗？ 答：是的。 问：这些大约68万美元来自哪里？ 答：来自其他想购买HDO的农场。 问：李女士，在你发送这些资金时，回到第一次时，是否有与盖特的合同？ 答：没有。 问：是否有与GFNY的合同？ 答：没有。 施洛夫律师说：反对，法官大人。谁和谁的合同。 问：你与盖特之间有任何合同吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第65/页 答：没有。 问：你与GFNY之间有任何合同吗？ 答：没有。 问：在你发送这笔钱给G-Clubs ME时，无论是第一次还是第二次转账，你或你的实体与 G-Clubs ME之间是否有任何合同？ 答：没有。 法官说：反对无效。 问：李女士，在你把大约100万美元转到阿布扎比的G-Clubs ME之后，发生了什么？ 答：几个月后，我收到了一份借款��同。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否展示标记为政府证物VI-110的文件给证人看？ 李女士，这是借款合同吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师：政府提交政府证物VI-110。 法官说：没有异议？ 施洛夫律师说：没有，法官大人。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物VI-110被接纳为证据） 费根森律师问：如果我们可以公布。洛夫特斯女士，我请你放大顶部一半。 李女士，在顶部写着G-Clubs ME Limited和HAA Group PTY Limited之间的贷款协 议。你看到了吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第66/页 问：合同上写的是2023年2月20日签署的借款协议。你是在2023年2月20日签署的这份协 议吗？ 答：不是。 问：截至2023年2月20日，你是否收到了这份协议？ 答：没有。 问：2023年2月20日是什么日期？ 如果你记得的话，这个日期有什么重要性？ 答：没有重要性。 问：李女士，下面写着：“鉴于借款人已请求贷款人提供金额为1,044,977.69欧元的贷款（定 义为贷款）。”李女士，欧元在这里有什么重要性？ 答：因为他们不想用美元。 问：你对他们不想使用美元的理解是什么？ 答：因为美元会被追踪。 问：被谁追踪？ 答：被美国政府追踪。 问：请向下滚动，洛夫特斯女士，到第4页。我们可以放大签名部分吗？李女士，谁签署了 这份借款协议？ 答：我和另外两个人。 问：另外两个人是谁？ 他们代表G-Clubs ME签署了协议？ 答：一个是董事，叫Ingrid Chao。另一个是G-Clubs的经理，叫王康迪。 问：李女士，请提高你的声音。Ingrid Chao是谁？ 答：Ingrid Chao是新G-Clubs的董事。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第67/页 问：她是支持者吗？ 答：是的，她是支持者之一。名字是Saraca。 问：提醒我们，文康是支持者吗？ 答：文康也是支持者，他负责联盟的财务部门。 问：李女士，你之前解释过这些转账是为了购买HDO，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你发送给G-Clubs ME的钱是贷款吗？ 答：不是。 问：你为什么签署这份贷款协议？ 答：因为联盟要求我签，所以我必须签。 问：请提高你的声音。 答：因为联盟要求我签，所以我必须签。 问：我们可以放下这个，洛夫特斯女士。 李女士，在你与G-Clubs ME签署贷款协议后发生了什么？ 答：几个月后，他们要求我签署另一份贷款注销文件。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，反对这个日期。 法官说：反对无效。 问：谁要求你签署注销协议？ 答：老班长。 问：老班长是谁？ 答：老班长是支持者之一。 问：为了记录员的利益，你能拼写这个名字吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第68/页 答：Lao，L-A-O，Ban Zhang，B-A-N Z-H-A-N-G。 问：他在运动中的角色是什么？ 答：他曾经是喜马拉雅联盟的主席，新西兰农场的领导者，也是铁血组成员。 施洛夫律师说：抱歉，我们没有听清她说的话。 答：他是喜马拉雅联盟的前主席，新西兰农场的前领导者，也是铁血组的成员之一。 问：在你收到注销请求后，你做了什么？ 答：我签了。 问：你之前说这不是贷款，为什么你签了这个注销请求？ 答：因为我必须按照联盟的要求签。 问：李女士，一般来说，支持者参加了什么样的抗议活动？ 答：抗议活动是抗议中共间谍和叛徒。 问：谁称他们为中共间谍和叛徒？ 答：郭文贵。 问：你自己曾参加过这些抗议活动吗？ 答：没有。 问：你曾经看过这些抗议活动吗？ 答：是的。 问：你是怎么看到的？ 答：通过直播。 问：你在观看的抗议活动中，抗议者们在做什么？ 答：他们会去他们的家周围，举着标语和牌子，还会向当地社区散发信息，说他们是社区里 的间谍。 问：你看过有人受伤的直播吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第69/页 答：是的。 问：有多少次？ 答：两次事件。 问：第一次事件是什么？ 答：第一次是一个抗议者打了中共间谍。 问：他被打在哪里？ 答：脸上。 问：第二次事件是什么？ 答：类似的，一个抗议者打了中共间谍的朋友。 问：那个人被打在哪里？ 答：眼睛。 问：郭文贵对这些事件有什么评价吗？ 答：他说干得好。 问：干得好？ 答：嗯哼。 问：他在哪里说的？ 答：在群聊里。 问：你知道这些抗议者是志愿的还是有报酬的吗？ 答：有报酬的。 问：他们是如何得到报酬的？ 答：他们由法治基金支付。 问：他们每天的报酬是多少？ 答：大约200美元一天。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第70/页 问：这些200美元的付款是如何进行的？ 答：法治基金会把钱发给农场领导或者负责的抗议者，然后他们再分发给每个参与的抗议 者。 问：谁会选择抗议的目标？ 答：郭文贵。 问：你怎么知道的？ 答：因为他在直播中说过。 问：什么是黑名单？ 答：黑名单是那些农场成员，如果他们公开批评联盟或新中国联邦或郭文贵，就会被认为是 中共间谍和叛徒，他们的名字就会被列入黑名单。 问：黑名单上的一些人会发生什么？ 答：他们的一些个人信息会被发布在网上。 问：这些个人信息来自哪里？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。 法官说：如果你知道的话。 施洛夫律师说：缺乏个人知识。 法官说：如果你知道这些个人信息来自哪里，你可以回答。 答：来自郭文贵。 问：你怎么知道的？ 答：因为他有时候在群里发消息。 问：什么样的群？ 答：农场联盟群。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第71/页 问：郭文贵说对这些个人信息要做什么？ 答：他说我们可以把这些信息发布到网上，并进行直播节目。 问：是否有一段时间抗议者抗议了证券交易委员会（SEC）？ 答：是的。 问：大约是什么时候？ 答：2022年。 问：为什么人们要抗议SEC？ 答：因为郭文贵说我们的投资资金被SEC扣押了，所以我们需要向SEC索赔。 问：关于SEC和中共，郭文贵说了什么？ 答：他说SEC被中共渗透了。 问：当时你相信吗？ 答：是的。 问：是否有一段时间破产受托人被抗议？ 答：是的。 问：受托人的名字是什么？如果你知道的话，能拼写出来吗？ 答：Luc Despins，L-U-C，D-E-P-I-N-S。 问：卢克·德斯宾先生是谁的破产受托人？ 答：郭文贵 问：为什么支持者要抗议破产受托人？ 答：因为郭文贵说他是中共间谍，司法部也被中共渗透了。 问：当时你相信吗？ 答：是的。 问：受托人的抗议持续了多久？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第72/页 答：持续了90天。 问：你看过这些抗议的直播吗？ 答：是的。 法官说：现在是11点30分，所以是我们休息的时间。记住你们不能在自己之间讨论案件。你 们不能让任何人在你们面前讨论案件。不要观看、阅读或收听任何与此案有关的内容。 书记员说：陪审团退庭。 （陪审团不在场） 法官说：请坐下。在我们中午回来之前有什么需要处理的吗？ 费根森律师：政府没有。 卡马拉珠律师：我们这边也没有，法官大人。 法官说：好的。 （休息） SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第73/页 2024年6月6日 美国诉郭文贵案 庭审笔录第10位证人证词 下午会议部分 时间： 12:00 法官说：请坐，请将陪审员带进来。 （陪审团在场） 法官说：请坐。 记住，李女士，你仍然在宣誓状态下。你仍然在宣誓状态下。 请继续。 由费根森律师提问： 问：李女士，当我们休息的时候，我们在讨论破产受托人的抗议活动。你还记得吗？ 答：记得。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们能给证人展示标为政府展品 VI194的物品吗？ 问：李女士，这是你观看的其中一个直播的图像吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府展品 VI194。 法官说：有任何异议吗？ 施洛夫律师说：没有异议，法官大人。 法官说：准予提交。 （政府展品 VI194被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：我们能公布一下吗。 由费根森律师提问： 问：李女士，我想让你注意左上角。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第74/页 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们能放大海报的左上角吗，请。 问：李女士，你能读出那张海报上的文字吗？ 答：“推翻中共。卢克·德斯宾。中共的走狗。” 问：请提醒我们，卢克·德斯宾是谁？ 答：他是郭文贵破产案的受托人。 问：你对“中共的走狗”是什么意思有什么理解？ 答：是中国共产党——受中共控制，为中共工作。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以缩小。然后放大顶部中间部分。 问：李女士，你知道尼尔·A·托皮是谁吗？ 答：不知道。 费根森律师说：你可以缩小。然后放大最右上角。 问：李女士，你知道这里是谁的照片吗？ 答：不知道。 问：你能读出那张海报上的文字吗？ 答：“种族灭绝的支持者。中共的走狗。保罗·黑斯廷斯。” 问：保罗·黑斯廷斯是什么？ 答：这位律师，是郭文贵破产案的法律事务所。 问：那是得斯宾先生工作的地方吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：如果我们可以缩小。 问：现在，李女士，受托人是在一个地方还是多个地方被抗议的？ 答：多个地方。 问：这是一个。受托人还在哪些地方被抗议？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第75/页 施洛夫律师说：异议，法官大人。 法官说：还有其他地方吗？ 证人说：他家。 法官说：驳回。 问：是否有与受托人有关的人也被抗议？ 答：有。 问：谁？ 答：他的妻子。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们暂时可以拿下这个。 问：除了受托人和他的妻子，还有谁与郭文贵破产案有关的人被抗议了吗？ 答：是的，最大的债权人叫——公司的名字是Pax。 问：请拼写一下，李女士。 答：P-A-X。 问：Pax是一个人还是一家公司？ 答：是公司的名字。 问：是什么类型的公司？ 答：是一个基金。 问：对不起，您说什么？ 答：是一个——类似投资基金。 问：Pax在郭文贵破产案中的角色是什么？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。 法官说：请上前一步。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第76/页 （边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 法官说：证人是否对破产程序有直接了解？ 费根森律师说：有的。她关注了这个过程，我只是想谈论一下。我很高兴重新表述问题：“你 对Pax在破产中的角色有什么理解？” 卡马拉珠先生：对不起。你说她关注了这个过程，你的意思是她在网上读到了这些信息吗？ 费根森律师说：是的。 卡马拉珠先生：这不是都基于传闻吗？ 费根森律师说：这是郭文贵谈论的。 法官说：所以你可以问他对此事的说法。 （回到公开法庭上） 由检方费根森律师提问： 问：李女士，郭文贵是否在直播中谈到过他的破产？ 答：是的。 问：你看过那些直播吗？ 答：是的。 问：通过观看这些直播，你对Pax在郭文贵破产案中的角色有什么理解？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。我们只是—— 法官说：反对成立。 施洛夫律师说：谢谢。 法官说：所以问题应该是郭先生是否说过关于Pax的事情。 问：郭先生说Pax在他的破产案中的角色是什么？ 答：是最大的债权人。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第77/页 施洛夫律师说：我申请删除这段证词，法官大人。这与问题无关。 法官说：驳回。继续。 问：李女士，Pax的谁被抗议了？ 答：Pax的董事，单伟建。 问：请拼写一下这个名字。 答：S-H-A-N，Shan，Wenjian，W-E-N-J-I-A-N。 问：还有其他与Pax有关的人被抗议吗？ 答：有。 由检方费根森律师提问： 问：是谁？ 答：单伟建的女儿和儿子。 问：当时他的孩子在校还是不在校？ 答：女儿在上大学。 问：为什么Pax及其董事的孩子会被抗议？——对不起，请继续。 答：因为郭文贵说单伟建是中共间谍。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以再次公布政府展品VI194。如果我们可以放大 左下角。 问：李女士，这张海报上的文字是什么？ 答：“由司法部任命的敲诈者。” 问：郭文贵在那个时候说了些什么关于司法部的事情？ 答：司法部被中共武器化，被中共渗透。 问：当时你相信吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第78/页 问：是否有一段时间你收到过破产受托人的传票？ 答：是的。 问：那大概是什么时候？ 答：大约在2022年5月。 问：关于那份传票，你与郭文贵进行了什么样的对话？ 答：郭文贵说我们应该把它扔进垃圾桶。 问：把什么扔进垃圾桶？ 答：把受托人的传票，受托人的传票。 问：是破产受托人的传票吗？ 答：是的。 问：在郭文贵说你应该把传票扔进垃圾桶后，你做了什么？ 答：我把它扔掉了。 问：你为什么这么做？ 答：因为当时我相信郭文贵说卢克·得斯宾是中共间谍。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，你可以把它拿下。 问：李女士，你现在还是郭文贵的追随者吗？ 答：不是。我离开了。 问：是否有一件事或多件事导致你不再追随郭文贵？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。 法官说：成立。“是什么导致你的？” 问：李女士，是什么原因首先导致你停止追随郭文贵？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。这是假定了没有证据支持的事实。 法官说：就问“是什么导致你的？”然后你可以说“还有其他的吗？” SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第79/页 问：是什么让你对郭文贵产生怀疑的？ 答：2023年3月15日，郭文贵和王雁平被逮捕。 问：他们被捕后，你是否完全离开了这个运动？ 答：没有。 问：为什么没有？ 答：因为当时我仍然相信。 问：仍然相信什么？ 答：相信郭文贵。 问：李女士，在郭文贵被捕之前，你是否收到过郭文贵关于你手机的任何指示？ 答：我们应该删除。 施洛夫律师说：对时间范围提出反对。从2017年到2023年？是否有具体的时间范围？ 法官说：添加一个时间范围。 问：你大概什么时候收到这些关于你手机的指示？ 答：2022年。 问：郭文贵告诉你要对你的手机做什么？ 答：删除信息，换号码。删除信息，换号码。 问：他怎么说的？ 答：因为中共可以骇客我们的手机。 问：这些是郭文贵亲自告诉你的还是通过中间人传达的？ 答：亲自告诉我的。 问：他在哪里说的？ 答：在哪里。 问：什么—— SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第80/页 答：在WhatsApp聊天中。 问：他是否解释为什么要你删除手机上的信息？ 答：因为中共在骇客我的手机。 问：当时你相信这是原因吗？？ 答：是的。 问：你现在还相信这是他要求你这么做的原因吗？ 答：现在我不相信了。 问：李女士，郭文贵被捕后，有人告诉你要对手机做什么吗？ 答：是的—— 施洛夫律师说：反对。由谁？ 问：联盟成员告诉你要做什么吗？ 答：是的。 问：谁？ 答：长岛伟哥。 问：长岛伟哥告诉你要做什么？ 答：长岛说：下周，FBI会逮捕我们；你需要删除所有信息。 问：你删除信息了吗？ 答：我删除了大部分信息，保留了一些与郭文贵的直接信息。 问：你担心被逮捕吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。 法官说：“你有任何担忧吗？”这是问题。 问：你担心被逮捕吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第81/页 问：你为什么担心被逮捕？ 答：因为司法部被中共渗透，所以他们利用FBI逮捕我们。 问：当时你相信吗？ 答：是的。 问：你现在还相信吗？ 答：不。 问：李女士，在郭文贵被捕后，下一件事让你产生怀疑的事是什么？ 答：关于Mawah豪宅。 问：你说Mawah豪宅，指的是什么？ 答：这是郭文贵为新中国联邦买的一个秘密基地。 问：谁说郭文贵买了这个房产作为新中国联邦的秘密基地？ 答：长岛哥。 问：他是在郭文贵被捕前还是被捕后说的？ 答：之后。 问：是什么——李女士，他在哪里说的？ 答：在直播中。 问：是长岛说的吗？ 答：是的。 问：你看过那个直播吗？ 答：是的。 问：听到郭文贵买这个Mawah房产作为新中国联邦的秘密基地，你的反应是什么？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。那不是证词。证词是长岛说的。 法官说：反对有效。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第82/页 问：听到长岛说郭文贵买了这个房产作为新中国联邦的秘密基地，你的反应是什么？ 答：我有疑虑，因为我从未听说过。 问：你第一次听说这个秘密基地是什么时候？ 答：从政府文件中。 问：好的。洛夫特斯女士——对不起。你什么时候第一次听到长岛说“秘密基地”？ 答：在2023年3月，在长岛的直播中。 费根森律师说：好的。洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以给证人展示标为政府展品VI28和29的物 品。 问：李女士，这些展品是什么？ 由检方费根森律师提问： 答：这是郭文贵的语音信息。他让我翻译并在2021年底发送给他的律师。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府展品VI28和VI29。 法官说：没有异议吗？ 施洛夫律师说：没有，法官大人，没有异议。 法官说：准许提交。 （政府展品VI28和VI29被接纳为证据） 问：李女士，总的来说，他让你翻译的内容是什么？ 答：翻译给他的律师，他的家族基金要买一处房产，并且有价格和一些条件，所以他们想完 成这笔购买交易。 费根森律师说：我想我就——也许我们可以直接展示英文，GX VI29。 问：好的，李女士，为了明确这些内容，这些页面上写的文字是从哪里来的？ 答：来自郭文贵的语音信息。 问：然后你把它翻译成英文了吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第83/页 答：是的。 问：好的，翻译完之后，你做了什么？ 答：我把它发回给了郭文贵。 问：好的。现在看这个展品，顶部写着“亲爱的安隆”。你理解的安隆是谁？ 答：安隆·米切尔是郭文贵的一位律师。 问：我来读一下这段文字。 “我今天刚刚通知我的家人关于这处房产，并告诉他们，房主可以将价格从3300万美元降低 到2800万美元。他们中的许多人都知道这所房子，并且非常有兴趣买下它作为基金投资并 可以在那里接待我们的家人在哪儿居住，有时我们也可能将其转换为接待我们俱乐部的会 员。” 我继续读下去。“我想重申以下关于这个报价的关键点： “A.家族基金提供的最终价格是2600万美元并尽快用基金完成这笔交易，请联系威廉，并 使用该基金购买。你可以一次性付款，尽快签订合同。”李女士，当你收到并翻译了这条来 自郭文贵的信息时，你理解谁会使用这处房产？ 答：郭文贵的家人。 问：为什么你会这么理解？ 答：因为家人同意购买这处房产，并使用他的家族基金，家族基金里的钱。 问：他说“我们可以接待家人在哪儿居住”，你理解是什么意思？ 答：所以他们的家人可以住在那里。 问：他说“有时我们也可能将其转换为接待我们俱乐部的会员”，你理解是什么意思？ 答：所以G-Clubs的成员有时可以使用它。 问：你期待能去这处房产吗？ 答：不。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第84/页 问：为什么不？ 答：因为那是他的家人房子。 问：专注于第二段，家族基金提供的最终价格是2600万美元，你理解购买这处房产的钱来 自哪里？ 答：来自他的家族基金。 问：你对郭文贵的家族基金有什么理解？ 答：是他的一个实体。 问：郭文贵说过什么关于他的家族基金的事吗？ 答：他的家族基金有很多钱。 问：顺便问一下，李女士，郭文贵在直播中提到过一辆红色兰博基尼吗？ 答：提到过。 问：他说那辆红色兰博基尼是怎么支付的？ 答：没有。 问：对不起，他说过那辆兰博基尼是怎么支付的吗？ 答：由家族基金支付。是他的家族基金奖励他的。 问：奖励他什么？ 答：奖励他工作努力。 问：他们奖励他什么？ 答：那辆兰博基尼车。 问：李女士，这里提到的威廉，你理解威廉是谁？ 答：威廉是余建明。 问：李女士，你认为购买这处房产的钱来自G-Clubs吗？ 答：不。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第85/页 问：你认为购买这处房产的钱是联盟的钱吗？ 答：不。 问：你认为是投资者的钱吗？ 答：不。 问：郭文贵是否告诉过你使用支持者的资金来购买这处房产？ 答：从未用支持者的钱买过任何东西，甚至是一顿饭。 问：如果你知道这处房产是用投资者的钱购买的，你会帮助你的农场成员投资吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，法官大人。 答：不会。 施洛夫律师说：我要求删除这个回答，并愿意就此事在侧栏讨论。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 问：如果你知道这处房产是用投资者的钱购买的，你会帮助 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，这个问题假设了未在证据中体现的事实。 法官说：我已经驳回了反对。 问：李女士，如果您知道这处房产是用投资者的钱购买的，你还会帮助农场成员的投资吗？ 答：不会。 问：为什么不？ 答：因为我们的投资是为了推翻中共，而不是为了他的家人或他的个人奢侈生活。不会。 问：李女士，购买一栋2600万美元的豪宅，在你看来，有助于打击中共吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，法官大人。 法官说：驳回。你可以回答。 答：没有。 问：在你看来，购买一辆红色兰博基尼有助于打击中共吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第86/页 施洛夫律师说：同样的反对。 答：没有。 法官说：驳回。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请翻到下一页，其实，对不起，洛夫特斯女士。如果你能稍微 向上滚动一下。写着：“由于这是一个受保护的房产，房主现在需要确认以下几点： “1. 这所房子不能再有任何居住或使用限制。 “2.确保市场上关于这所房子的所有信息都是真实的。”然后：“3.确保这房子历史上从未有 过墓地或埋葬地，也从未有过任何文化冲突，例如，闹鬼、被烧毁或不吉利。” 由检方费根森律师提问： 问：李女士，郭文贵有没有对你说过这处房产闹鬼？ 答：没有。 费根森律师说：请翻到第3页。 好的，我将从第5段开始阅读。 “我们希望现任业主，这位先生，在未来两年内与我们保持密切联系，基金将投入300万到 500万美元进行装修，他将负责装修项目的批准，需经我们预算批准。”最后一句写着：“当然 ，所有的费用都由我们承担。” “c.这所房子的照明太糟糕了。我们将增加24到36盏壁灯。” 跳到“d.我们会把目前房产里的所有家具搬到三楼和二楼的房间。在未来家族基金喜欢的 家具将被重新安排到一楼的大厅和二楼的空房间。购买这些家具后，我们希望他能帮我们 安排好。” “对于户外花园，除了增加照明外，我们需要所有喷泉全天24小时，全年365天运作，种植树 木并对整个花园进行深入改造。”跳到“f.家族基金现在有一个300万到500万美元的预算用 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第87/页 于所有装修。这些装修项目还包括一楼的厨房。厨房可能需要进行全厨房的翻新，希望他能 帮助完成。” 最后一个是整个花园的改造，更多的树木，更多的植物…… 我们可以稍微向上滚动一下，洛夫特斯女士。 由检方费根森律师提问： 问：李女士，你理解这些房产装修的钱来自哪里？ 答：来自他的家族基金。 问：你认为这些装修是用G-Clubs的钱支付的吗？ 答：不。 问：你认为这些装修是用支持者的钱支付的吗？ 答：不。 问：你认为这些装修是用投资者的钱支付的吗？ 答：不。 问：好的。让我们翻到下一页。 第6条。“最后也是最严重的一点是，他和代理人必须签约，确保他们始终对这笔交易保持法 ��承诺，永不向任何第二方或第三方披露任何信息，并保持绝对保密，包括即使在法庭上作 证时也不能披露任何关于这笔交易的信息。” 由检方律师费根森先生提问： 问：李女士，上面说他们不能透露任何信息。你为什么认为这些信息会透露给你？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。 答：因为 法官说：你可以回答。 答：因为郭文贵信任我，他希望我翻译它。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第88/页 问：他有分享给你其他秘密的事情吗？ 答：是的，他和我沟通的所有事情都是秘密。 问：你一直保守这些秘密吗？ 答：是的。 问：郭文贵有没有对你说过这处房产是秘密的新中国联邦基地？ 答：没有，从未。 问：你理解这处房产是什么？ 答：这是他的家族财产。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以把它拿下来。谢谢。 问：李女士，在郭文贵被捕后，听到长岛说Mawah房产是一个秘密基地后，下一件让你产生 怀疑的事情是什么？？ 答：H-C-H-K企业。 问：那家公司的全名是什么？ 答：圣城香港风险投资公司。 问：它的基地在哪里？ 答：在英属维尔京群岛（BVI）。 问：好的。如果我称它为H-C-H-K-B-V-I，你知道我在说什么吗？ 答：知道。 问：你在H-C-H-K-B-V-I担任什么职务？ 答：我是其中一位董事。 问：还有谁是董事？ 答：王雁平。 问：你什么时候成为H-C-H-K-B-V-I的董事？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第89/页 答：2022年7月。 问：是谁让你成为董事的？ 答：郭文贵。 问：郭文贵告诉你什么？ 答：他说我们要在BVI设立一个新的法治基金，王雁平会联系并告知我细节。 问：法治基金是你已经担任董事的地方吗？ 答：是的。 问：在郭文贵告诉你这些之后，你做了什么？ 答：王雁平联系了我。 问：王雁平告诉你什么？ 答：我们准备与BVI律师讨论，如何以及为什么要在BVI设立新的法治基金。 问：你被告知在BVI设立新法治基金的原因是什么？ 答：首先是我们需要在不同国家设立更多的分支机构，并且我们想接受HDO的捐款。 问：为什么你们必须在BVI设立一个机构来接受HDO的捐款？ 答：因为喜马拉雅交易所不在美国运作。 问：你成为了H-C-H-K-B-V-I的董事吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以给证人展示标为政府展品VI87的文件。 问：李女士，这是什么文件？ 答：这份文件任命我为这家公司的董事。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府展品VI87。 施洛夫律师说：没有异议，法官大人。 法官说：准许提交。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第90/页 （政府展品VI87被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：我们可以公布一下吗，洛夫特斯女士。 洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以放大一下文本，不需要脚注。 由检方费根森律师提问： 问：好的，李女士，这份文件的日期是什么时候？ 答：2022年7月20日。 问：在你与郭文贵和王雁平的对话后多久你签署了这份文件？ 答：两个月后。 问：在签署这份文件之前，你有进行过对话吗？ 答：有的，我发了—— 问：什么？不好意思。 答：是的，我发信息向郭文贵确认是否应该签署；他说是的。 问：这是通过中间人还是直接与郭文贵确认的？ 答：直接确认的。 问：李女士，在你签署这份文件成为H-C-H-K-B-V-I的董事后，你在接下来的几个月里与这 个实体有何关系？ 答：没有关系。 问：之后郭文贵有没有和你谈过新的法治基金？ 答：没有。 问：之后王雁平有没有和你谈过新的法治基金？ 答：没有。 费根森律师说：你可以把它拿下来，洛夫特斯女士。 问：是否有一次你再次与王雁平讨论H-C-H-K-B-V-I？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第91/页 答：有的。 问：李女士，首先，你在什么时候再次与她讨论；哪个月或年份？ 答：2023年4月。 问：那是面对面还是电话？ 答：电话。 问：谁在那通电话中？ 答：王雁平和长岛伟哥。 问：王雁平对你说了什么？ 答：王雁平说让我帮她一个忙。 问：是什么忙？ 答：签署所有文件。 问：你理解她的请求是什么？ 答：签署所有与H-C-H-K-B-V-I相关的文件。 问：李女士，这次对话是在王雁平被捕之前还是之后？ 答：之后。 问：在你与王雁平和长岛的电话后，接下来发生了什么？ 答：有一位律师打电话给我，要求我签署一些文件，这些文件会发送到我的电子邮箱。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以给证人展示标为政府展品VI101的文件吗。 问：这是邮件吗，李女士？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府展品VI101。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我可以请示一下吗？ 法官说：可以。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第92/页 施洛夫律师说：谢谢，没有异议，法官大人。 法官说：准予提交。 （政府展品VI101被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：谢谢。 我们可以公布一下吗，洛夫特斯女士。 谢谢。洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以先放大底部邮件。 由检方费根森律师提问： 问：李女士，右上角的日期是什么时候？ 答：2023年4月11日。 问：你是这个邮件链中的参与者吗？ 答：是的。 问：我来读一下正文部分。上面写着“木兰”。李女士，“木兰”是谁？ 答：是我。 问：“请尽快执行，谢谢。” 费根森律师说：我们可以滚动到邮件的顶部。 问：好的，李女士，这是同一天吗？ 答：是的。 问：这封邮件是谁发的？ 答：亚历克斯·利普曼。 问：亚历克斯·利普曼代表谁？ 答：王雁平。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第93/页 问：我来读一下正文部分。“亲爱的各位，请参阅附件中由王雁平签署的圣城HKBVI公司决 议，授权任命受让人并雇佣安东尼S和莎莉。”上面写着“木兰，请你也尽快签署并传送给这 个小组。谢谢。”李女士，你收到这封邮件后做了什么？ 答：我签署了利普曼发给我的文件。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以给证人展示标为政府展品VI102的文件吗。 问：李女士，这是你签署的文件吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府展品VI102。 施洛夫律师说：我们没有异议，法官大人。 法官说：准予提交。 （政府展品VI102被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：我们可以公布一下吗。好的，洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以放大顶部部分。 由检方费根森律师提问： 问：好的，李女士，你看到顶部写着“代替特别会议的圣城香港风险投资有限公司董事书面 同意书”吗？ 答：看到了。 问：文件下方的日期是什么时候？ 答：2023年4月10日。 问：我要读一下底部的三个决议。 “决议，该公司拥有Lexington Property and Staffing, Inc.（‘Lexington’）99.9999%的股份。” “决议，该公司拥有H-C-H-K科技公司（H-C-H-K Tech）99.9999%的股份。” “决议，该公司拥有H-C-H-K资产管理公司（H-C-H-K资产）99.9999%的股份。”李女士，你 知道这些实体是什么吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第94/页 答：不知道。 费根森律师说：如果你可以缩小一点。 如果我们可以放大倒数第二个决议。 问：我要读一下倒数第二个决议： “决议，授权Lexington、H-C-H-K科技和H-C-H-K资产签署受益于债权人的转让契约（‘转让 契约’）给Brian W. Hofmeister, Esq.（以下简称‘受让人’）。”并给出了他的地址。 李女士，你知道什么是为债权人利益的转让吗？ 答：不知道。 问：你知道Brian Hofmeister是谁吗？ 答：不知道。 问：你曾与他谈过吗？ 答：没有。 费根森律师说：如果我们可以缩小。你可以滚动一下。 我们可以放大签名部分。 问：李女士，如果你不知道这些事情，为什么你签署了这份文件？ 答：因为联盟要求我签署，王雁平也让我帮她一个忙。 问：李女士，在2024年4月签署这份文件后，接下来发生了什么？ 费根森律师说：你可以把它拿下来，洛夫特斯女士。 施洛夫律师说：2023年。反对，法官大人。 费根森律师说：哦，对不起。对不起。我很抱歉。 问：为了澄清，你大约在什么时间签署了那份文件？ 答：2023年4月。 问：谢谢，李女士。你签署后发生了什么？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第95/页 答：所以在6月，受托人卢克发了一份文件，发了一份临时限制令来阻止这次转让。 问：你对这份临时限制令有什么理解？ 答：这是临时限制令。 问：你对其目的有什么理解？ 答：阻止这次转让，所以我意识到我们不应该这样做。 问：李女士，你提到了一次转让。 答：嗯。 问：你第一次了解到——我们来说说这次转让。你什么时候第一次了解到这次转让？ 答：在这份文件，卢克的文件中。 问：临时限制令？ 答：是的。 问：好的，你了解到这次转让是什么，从什么到什么？ 答：从H-C-H-K到G News。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以—— 问：李女士，当您签署文件时，您查看了—— 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果您想调出 GX VI102。 问：李女士，你在签署的文件中理解到会有任何资产转让吗？ 答：没有。我以为是公司关闭。 问：你签署文件时，对这些实体的资产有什么理解？ 答：没有资产，只是关闭公司。 费根森律师说：你可以拿下这个，洛夫特斯女士。 问：李女士，在受托人试图阻止这次转让后，联盟成员要求你做什么？ 答：要求我起诉卢克，阻止卢克拿到这笔钱。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第96/页 问：谁要求你起诉受托人？ 答：张勇兵。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以公布政府展品121吗？它在证据中。 问：李女士，当张勇兵要求你起诉受托人时，你如何回应？ 答：我说不。我说我要辞去董事职务。我不想起诉卢克。 问：之后发生了什么——或者撤回。 你那时能够辞职吗？ 答：不能。 问：为什么不能？ 答：因为律师在我之前辞职了，所以我们无法处理。 问：李女士，请提高你的声音。 答：BVI的律师在我之前辞职了，所以没人处理，所以我们需要先找一个新律师。 问：最终，李女士，你能够辞职吗？ 答：是的。 问：你大约在什么时候辞去了H-C-H-K-B-V-I的董事职务？ 答：大约在2023年7月。 问：你辞职后，有人要求你做什么吗？ 答：他们想让我签署虚假的宣誓书给受托法庭，破产法庭。 问：谁要求你签署虚假的宣誓书？ 答：张勇兵。 问：据你所知，张勇兵从谁那里接受指示？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。 法官说：如果你知道的话。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第97/页 问：李女士，据你所知，张勇兵从谁那里接受指示？ 答：郭文贵。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以给证人展示标为政府展品VI66的文件吗。 问：李女士，这是什么文件？ 答：这是张勇兵想让我签署的宣誓书。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府展品VI66。 问：他把它发给你了吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府展品VI66。 法官说：没有异议吗？ 施洛夫律师说：没有，法官大人。 法官说：准予提交。 （政府展品VI66被接纳为证据） 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请公布。 由检方费根森律师提问： 问：李女士，在张勇兵发给你这份宣誓书之前，他有对你进行面谈吗？ 答：没有。 费根森律师说：好的。洛夫特斯女士，我们可以——我会读它。 问：顶部，李女士，你看到写着美国破产法院康涅狄格州桥港分院吗？ 答：看到了。 问：下面写着关于：郭文贵等，债务人。郭浩云是谁？ 答：郭文贵。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第98/页 问：在那下面写着，卢克·A·得斯宾，郭文贵遗产的第十一章受托人，原告，诉H-C-H-K科技 有限公司、H-C-H-K资产管理有限公司、Lexington Property and Staffing, Inc.、圣城香港风 险投资公司, Ltd.、安东尼·迪巴��斯塔、王雁威和布莱恩·W·霍夫迈斯特，债权人受让人。” 你看到了吗，李女士？你看到了吗？ 答：看到了。 问：在右边，你看到这份文件的日期是2023年9月21日吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。在下面加粗的中间写着，“木兰（又名李娅）的声明。”是你吗？ 答：是的。 问：这份文件是你写的吗？ 答：不是。 问：是谁写的？ 答：张勇兵。 费根森律师说：好的，洛夫特斯女士，如果我们能稍微滚动一下。 问：在第2段中写着——其实，我先从第1段开始。第二句话写着：“我了解义务，并在伪证罪 下提供以下内容。”写着：“据我所知、信息和信念，我认为以下陈述是真实的。” 在第2段中写着，“我提交这份宣誓书是为了保护圣城香港风险投资公司, Ltd.（‘一家 BVI公司’）及其三个全资子公司H-C-H-K科技, H-C-H-K资产和H-C-H-K Lexington 在上述对抗诉讼中的利益。” 如果我们能向下滚动。 写着：“直到今年9月，我一直担任H-C-H-K企业的董事。我名义上拥有H-C-H-K企业 ，而王雁威是H-C-H-K企业的主要所有者和董事。” 李女士，这准确吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第99/页 答：大约到7月。我做到7月。 问：除了月份，这大体准确吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：法官大人，我可以有个时间吗。 问：好的。第4段写着，“我理解对于H-C-H-K企业在本法院法律程序中延迟回答存在一些担 忧。解释很简单——作为少数股东和名义董事，我担心在没有更多信息和法律咨询的情况 下采取任何行动。” 李女士，这是真的吗？ 答：不是真的。 问：为什么不？ 答：因为我从王雁平那里获得信息——指导去签署那些文件—— 问：然后—— 答：——去签署那些文件。 问：如果我们——我们跳到第6段。 “从那时起，我和其他H-C-H-K企业的负责人、债权人和律师进行了多次讨论，讨论 如何最好地进行，更重要的是，如何谨慎地进行。这花费了相当多的时间。” 写着，“根据这些讨论，在2023年4月我，”李女士，你认为这里的“我”指的是谁？ 答：我自己。 问：“——根据这些讨论，在2023年4月，我授权在纽约最高法院进行H-C-H-K科技的转让程 序以及相关的业务关闭。我理解并相信安东尼·迪巴蒂斯塔代表H-C-H-K资产和H-C-H-K Lexington授权了ABC程序。然而，在关闭之前，这些H-C-H-K企业实体作为可行的业务运 营。” 这信息是你的真实宣誓书吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第100/页 答：不是。 问：为什么不？ 答：我从未与他们开过会，也不知道我签署的文件是为了这次转让。我以为只是关闭那些 实体。 问：你知道H-C-H-K企业实体是否作为可行的业务运营吗？ 答：不知道。 法官说：你的回答是你不知道还是他们没有作为可行的业务运营？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，如果我可以。 问：你是否知道H-C-H-K企业实体是否作为可行的业务运营？ 答：我不知道。 问：我来读第8段。 写着：“与此同时，我还了解到BVI的公司手续已经过期，所以我们还需要进行一些必 要的备案，并重新任命服务代理以确保公司的合法形式。这也花费了一些时间。” 李女士，这是真的吗？ 答：是的。 问：我会继续读第9段。 费根森律师说：如果我们可以向下滚动，洛夫特斯女士，并且放大一些。 问：“然而，我已经了解到并相信，受让人迄今未能在纽约州法院的诉讼中使H-C-H-K企业实 体的债权人得到充分补偿，而是选择将H-C-H-K企业实体的资产交给本案中的美国受托人 ，作为单独协议的一部分。” 然后有一个脚注，脚注2。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以放大并查看脚注。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第101/页 问：好的，脚注2写着：“不可否认的是，我和参与H-C-H-K企业实体的人与全球政治和社会 运动——重建中国的自由和民主（‘运动’）有着支持的关系。也不可否认的是，H-C-H-K企 业实体业务的许多利润和资产历史上被用于支持运动。尽管如此，这些实体是可行的运营 业务（可能的例外是，根据信息和信念，H-C-H-K Lexington，我认为它主要作为一个公司壳 存在）。”李女士，这准确吗？ 答：不，我对此一无所知。甚至我不知道这个集团的结构。 费根森律师说：你可以缩小了，洛夫特斯女士。 问：李女士，张勇兵要求你签署的宣誓书是真实的还是虚假的？ 答：虚假的。 问：你签署了吗？ 答：没有。 问：你为什么不签署？ 答：因为我知道我们不能对法院撒谎。这是底线。 问：李女士，在你拒绝签署后，张勇兵对你说了什么来让你签署？ 答：他给我发送了一份最后通牒，威胁我签署。 问：威胁是什么？ 答：威胁是，如果我们输掉这场官司，我们会失去这笔钱，卢克会接管这笔钱，我将对这笔 钱全额负责。 问：涉及多少金额？ 答：3800万美元。 问：当他说你将对3800万美元全额负责时，你的理解是什么？ 答：我必须偿还3800万美元。 问：你怎么回应的？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第102/页 答：我说，不，我没有3800万美元。如果他们要我支付，他们可以拿走我的命。 问：你这是什么意思？ 答：我没有3800万美元。如果他们要我负责，他们可以用我的命来支付。 问：你这是什么意思，他们可以用你的命来支付？ 答：他们可以杀了我。 问：你为什么这么说？ 答：因为我没有其他解决办法。 问：李女士，你有受到身体上的伤害吗？ 答：没有。 问：你有想过伤害自己吗？ 答：有。 问：你为什么没有这样做？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，相关性，法官大人。 法官说：驳回。你可以回答。 答：因为我有一个11岁的女儿。 （停顿） 费根森律师说：我们可以拿下宣誓书，洛夫特斯女士。 问：李女士，这次虚假宣誓书事件和威胁对你对郭文贵的怀疑有什么影响？ 答：在这之后，我彻底意识到这是一个骗局。 问：你意识到这是一个骗局后，接下来做了什么？ 答：我试图联系美国政府。 问：在你联系之前，李女士，你查看了什么吗？ 答：查看了过去的七年。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第103/页 问：你查看了哪些内容？ 答：所有的内容。郭文贵的直播和我们签署的文件。 问：在你的查看中发现了什么？ 答：我发现这是一个骗局。 问：李女士，当你意识到这一点时，你的感受如何？ 答：我感到非常愤怒、绝望，感到内疚，感到后悔，非常沮丧，我想过自杀。 问：你说你感到愤怒。为什么你感到愤怒？ 答：我们被郭文贵欺骗了。他对我们撒谎。但我们如此信任他，我们百分百信任他，没有怀 疑，没有问题。 问：你说你也感到内疚。为什么你感到内疚？ 答：我对我的家庭感到内疚，因为这七年来，我没有照顾好我的家庭。 问：你在做什么呢？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。 法官说：驳回。 答：我为郭文贵和我的秘密翻译组团队努力工作，所有成员都为郭文贵努力工作。 问：李女士，你有没有与破产受托人交谈过？ 答：有的。 问：大约什么时候？ 答：2023年10月左右。 问：大致上，你与破产受托人谈论了什么？ 答：关于整个H-C-H-K的事情。 问：你有没有联系过FBI？ 答：有的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第104/页 问：大约什么时候？ 答：2023年11月，2023年11月。 问：你为什么联系FBI？ 答：因为我想向美国政府报告郭文贵欺骗了我们，对我们撒谎，误导了我。 问：李女士，你大概与FBI和检察官见过多少次？ 答：大约十次。大约十次。 问：谢谢你，李女士。请尽量提高你的声音。 答：好的。 问：当你联系FBI时，你感到安全吗还是不安全？ 答：安全。 问：在联系FBI之前还是之后？ 答：之后。 问：在联系FBI之前你感觉如何？ 答：我感到不安全。 问：为什么你感到不安全？ 答：因为如果我停止与联盟合作，他们会说我是中共间谍和叛徒并开始欺负我，我担心这点 ，我担心我的家人，我的房子。 问：李女士，你曾被逮捕过吗？ 答：没有。 问：你自愿还是非自愿来到美国作证？ 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我们之前已经讨论过这些，我反对，问题已问过并回答 过。 法官说：这个问题已问过并回答过。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第105/页 问：李女士，你为什么今天来这里作证？ 答：我来这里作证是为了讲述郭文贵如何欺骗我们，如何对我们撒谎，如何误导我们。 问：李女士，在他的直播中，郭文贵说过什么关于被中共针对的事情？ 答：他说他的家人，他在中国的员工被中共针对。 问：他还说了什么关于被中共针对的事情？ 答：他的资产被中共接管。 问：他有没有谈到黑客攻击？ 答：有的，他的手机被中共黑了。 问：关于试图将他送回中国的事情呢？ 答：是的，中共派人来美国，试图说服特朗普总统把他送回中国。 问：李女士，如果郭文贵被中共针对是真的，这对你对他的运动的看法有什么影响？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，法官大人。 法官说：驳回。 问：如果他被中共针对是真的，这对你对他运动的看法有什么影响？ 答：没有变化。 问：如果他被中共针对是真的，这对你对他的投资项目的看法有什么影响？ 答：没有变化。 问：为什么这不会改变你的看法，李女士？ 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我反对，相关性。 法官说：驳回。你可以回答。 答：即使被中共针对，也不能成为诈骗他人钱财的理由。我也被中共针对过，我不会骗取任 何人的钱。这是错误的。 问：李女士，你如何被中共针对？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第106/页 答：我的——我的父母在中国，中共警察打电话给他们，让他们告诉我停止我的活动，因为 我的活动威胁到国家安全；他们还打电话给我的父母和其他亲戚，试图找到我，问他们我是 否回到中国，他们如何联系我；我的父母告诉我不要回中国，他们会逮捕我，但我是独生子 女。 问：李女士，被中共针对后，你有没有花支持者的钱在自己身上？ 答：没有。 问：你有没有花投资者的钱在自己身上？ 答：没有。 问：为什么没有？ 答：因为那不是我的钱。那是投资者的钱，支持者的钱。这些钱应该用来对抗中共，而不是 为我自己使用。 问：李女士，通过参与郭文贵的投资项目，你致富了吗？ 答：没有。 问：从金钱的进出角度来看，你是赚钱了还是赔钱了？ 答：赔钱了。 问：你大概损失了多少？ 答：大约50——对不起，大约2万美元。 问：通过参与郭文贵的运动，你推翻中共了吗？ 答：没有。 问：在你看来，这个运动和这些投资项目的结果是什么？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，问题的形式有问题。 法官说：你是问对她的结果吗？ 费根森律师说：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第107/页 法官说：好的，请继续。 答：结果是支持者没有变富而是变得更穷，支持者感到失望并会离开—— 施洛夫律师说：反对，法官大人。问题是对她的结果。 法官说：请只说你自己。 施洛夫律师说：并且我要求删除她回答的前半部分。 答：我变得更穷了，我将离开这个运动。最终，我也不想参与任何民主活动，因为我不知道 这是不是另一个骗局。 费根森律师说：法官大人，我能有片刻时间吗？ 法官说：可以。 问：李女士，我想回到你开始观看郭文贵视频的时候。你为什么开始关注郭文贵？ 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我们已经讨论过这个问题了。 法官说：她已经回答过这个问题了。 费根森律师说：法官大人，我还有三个问题左右。 法官说：继续。 由检方费根森律师提问： 问：李女士，坐在这里的今天，你还相信中国的民主吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。他之前已经问过了。 法官说：我不认为他问过关于中国民主的问题。 你还相信中国的民主吗？ 证人说：是的。 问：坐在这里的今天，你还信任郭文贵吗？ 施洛夫律师说：已经问过并回答过，至少十次了。 费根森律师说：���官大人，没有问过今天的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第108/页 施洛夫律师说：和昨天有什么区别吗？ 费根森律师说：不，是和她还是追随者的时候相比。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：不。 问：为什么不？ 施洛夫律师说：我认为这个问题已经问过并回答过，但是—— 法官说：你可以回答。 答：因为整个运动是一个骗局。他欺骗了我们，对我们撒谎，误导了我们。 费根森律师说：没有进一步的问题了。 法官说：我们要休息10分钟。记住你们不能在自己之间讨论这个案子；不能阅读、 收听或观看任何关于这个案子的内容。 女士，你可以出去。不要讨论你的证词。 （陪审团不在场） 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我们可以让证人离开吗？ 法官说：你可以出去。 （证人不在场） （边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 法官说：费根森先生，有一处你问证人，你担心被逮捕吗。施洛夫律师反对了。我维持反对 并说，你有任何担忧吗？这是问题。然后你问，你担心被逮捕吗。 费根森律师说：对不起。法官大人，我很抱歉，那不是我的本意。 法官说：注意点。 费根森律师说：对不起。真的很抱歉。 法官说：好吧。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第109/页 （回到公开法庭上） 法官说：请让证人回来。请陪审员进来。 （陪审团在场） 法官说：请坐。开始交叉询问。 施洛夫律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 交叉询问 由辩方律师施洛夫提问： 问：李女士，你在直接询问中作证说你认为你的问题没有其他解决方案，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你认为唯一的解决方案是“自杀”，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：李女士，可以说，实际上您确实找到了另一种解决办法，对吗？ 答：解决方案是？ (停顿） 问：你找到了一个解决方案，对吗？你的解决方案是联系破产律师，对吗？ 答：不，当时我以为是—— 问：你必须提高声音，因为我听不见你。 答：当时我在考虑我的生命。 问：但之后你找到了一个解决方案，对吗？你今天在这里，对吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，反对。证人应该被允许回答问题。 法官说：暂停一下，让她回答。问题是，你找到了解决方案，对吗？ 答：在我意识到我不能自杀后，因为我女儿—— SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第110/页 问：那不是我的问题。 费根森律师说：对不起，法官大人。她打断了她。 施洛夫律师说：我要求删除。 法官说：驳回。你可以回答。 问：我的问题是，你找到了一个解决方案，对吗？ 答：在我想到我的女儿后，我不能自杀，然后我联系了美国政府。 问：对。所以你找到了一个解决方案，解决方案是联系美国政府，对吗？ 费根森律师说：已经问过并回答了。 法官说：反对有效。 问：你首先联系的是哪个美国政府部门？ 答：受托人。 问：对。所以你有这些想法，然后你找到了一个解决方案。解决方案是联系受托人，这是你 采取的第一步，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你联系了受托人，就是卢克·德斯宾？你必须提高声音。 答：是的。 问：你自己联系了受托人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你和受托人谈过话，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你是通过电话还是其他方式与他交谈？ 答：线上 问：你是在线上与他交谈的。你给他发了邮件，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第111/页 答：线上会议。 问：你和他进行了在线会议，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你使用了Webex吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：你不知道还是不记得？ 答：我不记得。 问：谁安排的会议？ 答：受托人。 问：受托人安排了会议，你参加了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你把你脑海中想要分享的所有事实都告诉了他，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您与受托人交谈时，您知道受托人代表的是一个名为Pax的实体，对吗？ 答：不知道。 问：你认为受托人代表谁？ 答：美国政府。 问：你认为受托人代表美国政府？ 答：是的。 问：他告诉你的吗？ 答：没有。 问：在你联系破产受托人之后，你联系了司法部，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第112/页 问：你联系了FBI，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后你联系了美国检察官办公室，对吗，就是这些检察官？ 答：是的。 问：你自己在澳大利亚完成了这些联系，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我们从这里开始。你认为你和这些检察官谈过多少次？ 答：大约十次。 问：那么，让我们看看。你记得第一次是在2023年11月，11月1日。你记得吗？ 答：记得。 问：那次会议是怎么安排的？ 答：我和他们见面。 问：所以你在澳大利亚亲自见过他们，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后你第二次见他们是在同一年的11月3日。你记得吗？ 答：不记得。 问：你记得在2024年2月6日见过他们吗？ 答：不记得。 问：2024年2月29日呢。你记得吗？ 答：不记得。 问：你可能记得2月29日，因为这是你第一次见到这些检察官；费根森律师、芬克先生、莫里 女士和那边的胡子男霍顿先生？ 答：不记得。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第113/页 问：你不记得？ 答：不记得。 问：3月1日与他们的互动呢，你记得吗？ 答：不记得。 问：你记得向检察官发送文件作为附件，多份文件一个接一个吗？ 答：记得。 问：你记得那是2024年3月1日吗？ 答：不记得。 问：3月7日呢，你记得与这些检察官进行的Webex会议吗？ 答：不记得。 问：3月15日发送邮件给他们，给费根森律师和芬克先生，莫里女士和霍顿先生，以及FBI特 工，你记得吗？ 答：不记得。 问：3月18日与费根森律师的会议呢，你记得吗？ 答：不记得。 问：2024年3月21日呢，你记得吗？ 答：不记得。 问：3月25日，和联邦调查局及联邦助理检察官费根森，也就是今天问你问题的那个人，你 记得吗？ 答：不记得。 问：3月25日向政府发送链接和文件呢，你记得吗？ 答：不记得。 问：3月29日呢，你记得吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第114/页 答：不记得。 问：那么4月11日，您与联邦助理检察官费根森和联邦调查局特工进行了一次Webex会议， 您记得吗？ 答：不记得。 问：2024年4月18日呢，你记得吗？ 答：不记得。 问：4月21日与FBI特工的会议并向他们发送邮件，你记得吗？ 答：不记得。 问：2024年4月23日呢，你记得吗？ 答：不记得。 问：那么2024年4月25日，您记得吗，与在这边的费根森先生进行了一次Webex会议？ 答：不记得。 问：4月28日呢，你记得吗？ 费根森律师说：她没有说4月28日发生了什么，法官大人。反对。 法官说：你是在问她是否记得2月28日与他开会吗？ 施洛夫律师说：我愿意重新措辞。 问：李女士，你记得吗，2024年4月28日，你通过电子邮件与美国检察官办公室的费根森先 生和联邦调查局分享了一些文件，这些文件与你为美国政府研究的某些问题有关？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，反对证词，也请澄清她是否记得具体日期或是否记得与政府通过 电子邮件沟通。 法官说：我的理解是，她在问你是否记得在某个特定日期通过电子邮件发送过文件。 答：我记得我发过邮件，但不记得具体日期。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第115/页 问：您记得吗，2024年5月2日，与联邦助理检察官费根森、联邦助理检察官莫里、芬克和霍 顿进行了Webex会议。联邦助理检察官是指在这个桌子上的助理美国检察官？ 答：我只记得与费根森见面。 问：你记得在2024年5月3日与费根森先生通过电子邮件沟通吗？ 答：我发过邮件，但不记得日期。 问：那么5月9日，你记得与这三位检察官的电话通话吗？ 答：不记得。 问：那是不到一个月前的事。 答：不记得。 问：那么5月16日，你与费根森先生有过一次电话通话，你记得那次电话吗？ 答：不记得。 问：那么5月27日，你与今天提问你的费根森先生进行了一次Webex会议，你记得吗？ 答：我们开过会，但我不记得日期。 问：6月1日的会议呢，你记得吗？ 答：记得。 问：6月1日的会议是面对面的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你见了费根森先生，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在他的办公室见了他，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你和他见面后——其实，让我收回这个问题。你在6月1日与费根森先生会面了多久？ 答：不记得。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第116/页 问：你不记得？ 答：几个小时。 问：几个小时是指三个小时，还是五个小时？ 答：不记得。 问：但你记得与费根森先生见过面，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：当你与他会面时，他正在记录你所说的内容，对吗？ 答：不记得。 问：你不记得看到他做笔记了吗？ 答：不记得。 问：你记得FBI在做笔记吗？ 答：不记得。 问：6月1日你与费根森先生见面时，是在这栋楼里还是对面的那栋楼？ 答：不记得。 问：6月1日，当你与费根森先生会面时，你是在被指定律师之前与他见面的吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以，在他们为你指定律师之前，你与他见面了几个小时，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那么在6月1日，这些先生们和莫里女士为你指定了一位律师，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在你有了律师之后，你是否又回去与费根森先生交谈了？ 答：没有。 问：你交谈了——好的。你在6月2日与费根森先生交谈了吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第117/页 答：是的。 问：6月2日，你是和律师一起与他交谈的，还是没有律师，或者两者都有？ 答：没有律师。 问：你没有律师就和他谈话了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他们已经给你指定了一位律师，但你还是去见了费根森先生，而你的律师并没有在你身 边，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对，已问过并回答过了。 法官说：反对有效。 问：你在6月4日又见了费根森先生，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：6月3日你做了什么？ 答：见了费根森先生。 问：你在6月3日又见了费根森先生，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后在6月4日，你和他进行了两次会议还是只有一次会议？你记得吗？ 答：不记得。 问：然后你在6月5日又见了他，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：你昨天上庭前没有见过他吗？ 答：对，在这次审判前，见过。 问：那么，你是在早上上证人席之前与他会面的，对吗，就是那个证人席？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第118/页 问：那是6月5日，而今天是6月6日，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：从2023年11月1日到2024年6月5日或6月6日，你和我从未见过面，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你和我从未通过电子邮件联系过，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你和我没有通话过，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：同样，坐在这里的这位名叫西德·卡马拉珠的先生，你从未和他说过话，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你从未给他打过电话，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你从未通过电子邮件联系过他，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：没有和他有任何联系，对吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：问过并回答过了。 问：今天在法庭上的郭先生的任何律师也是一样，对吗？ 费根森律师说：这一点已经问过并回答过了。 法官说：我们已经确定她没有和辩护团队有过联系。 施洛夫律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 问：6月4日，当你与费根森先生会面时，你与他一起查看了一份文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第119/页 问：在你们审阅那份文件之前，我收回刚才的话。费根森先生给了你一份文件，你进行了审 核，对吗？ 答：什么时候？ 费根森律师说：反对，问题不明确。 施洛夫律师说：是指在6月4日�� 法官说：仅限于6月4日的情况。好的。 施洛夫律师说：对不起，法官大人，我漏掉了这一点。 法官说：你目前仅指6月4日的情况？ 施洛夫律师说：是的。 法官说：继续。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，法庭屏幕上有文件吗？ 问：李女士，你查看这份文件有问题吗？这只供证人查看，不给陪审团看。 答：没有。 问：你能看到文件吗，李女士？ 答：能。 问：请你花一点时间审阅一下，可以吗？ 答：可以。 问：我能给你看第二页吗？ 答：可以。 问：我能给你看第三页吗？你记得在6月4日收到这份文件吗？ 答：记得。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我请求将该文件作为辩方证据60504提交为证据。 费根森律师说：反对。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第120/页 法官说：请上前。 （边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 法官说：有什么问题？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，这是最初的不起诉协议（NPA）要约，发送给李女士的律师。我没 有与李女士讨论过这份文件，也没有给她。我猜我们要进入有关特权的对话。她想询问这 份发给她律师的草稿，据我所知李女士与她的律师讨论过。我随后发送给李女士律师的是 后来版本的不起诉协议，那才是签署的版本。这不是她签署的那一份。 施洛夫律师说：我完全没有任何意图问她任何可能涉及律师/客户特权的问题。我只是想将 这份文件作为证据提交，因为其覆盖范围有所增加。我完全没有兴趣问她任何关于她的律 师告诉她什么以及她告诉她的律师什么的问题。 法官说：那么，为什么您打算引入草稿而不是最终版本呢？ 施洛夫律师说：有两个原因。其覆盖范围有所增加。 法官说：在第二个版本中？ 施洛夫律师说：是的。 费根森律师说：这是事实。我们对此没有异议。 卡马拉珠先生：这是原因，法官大人。 法官说：只是为了表明她有一个律师在进行谈判吗？ 施洛夫律师说：不是，和律师无关。 卡马拉珠先生：只是他们提出了一个不起诉协议的提议，涵盖了某些行为范围。她的律师， 我假设他们没有直接与她沟通，向他们传达了扩大覆盖范围的请求。这表明他们在谈判并 增加了覆盖范围。 法官说：这就是我刚才的问题，只是为了表明他们进行了谈判？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第121/页 施洛夫律师说：是的。 法官说：第二份协议包含第一份协议中的内容吗？ 施洛夫律师说：并且大大扩展了范围。 费根森律师说：对，是的。 法官说：那有什么问题？ 费根森律师说：只要他们不涉及——我担心我们可能会涉及她与律师的讨论。但如果她能 以不触及这些讨论的方式提问，如果施洛夫律师能做到这一点，那我们就没问题。 卡马拉珠先生：如果有任何问题涉及到这一点，证人或她的律师可以主张特权。 法官说：律师在场吗？ 费根森律师说：不，我不认为在场。 施洛夫律师说：律师也没有参与任何对话。我不会涉足这些，法官大人。我有足够的经验知 道不要涉足。如果我这样做了，您当然能够直接驳回我的异议。这不是我的意图。 法官说：好的。 （回到公开法庭上） 法官说：驳回。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我们可以向陪审团公布吗？ 法官说：就认证问题有任何异议吗？ 费根森律师说：没有异议，法官大人。 法官说：被承认，可以向陪审团公布。 （被告的证据60504被接纳为证据） 由辩方施洛夫律师提问： 问：李女士，如果你看着顶部的部分，下面有——如果你能为她突出显示，拜托。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第122/页 它写的是通过电子邮件发送，对吗？文件日期是6月2日，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你会注意到，你律师的名字拼错了，对吗？她的名字有两个“F”，但他们把她叫做Wall Wolf？ 费根森律师说：反对，理由是无关性。 法官说：如果你知道她的名字是怎么拼写的。 施洛夫律师说：我撤回。 问：你记得审阅过这份文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：如果我可以让你看一下该文件的第二页，你记得审阅过这一页和第三页，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：回到第一页，如果我可以为你突出显示第一段。 公平地说，对吗，李女士，你理解这份协议是你和美国检察官办公室之间的协议，他们是这 里的检察官，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你现在看到的文件为你提供了一些实体的覆盖范围，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：法治基金，是吗？ 答：是的。 问：GTV，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：G-Clubs，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第123/页 问：喜马拉雅交易所，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：喜马拉雅全球联盟，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后是新中国联邦，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：现在，如果我可以把这份文件拿下来，然后让我给你看另一份日期为6月4日的文件。如 果我可以只显示给证人，而不是陪审团。 谢谢。 你认得这份文件吗，李女士？ 答：认得。 问：我可以让你看看最后一页吗？上面有你的签名吗？ 答：有。 施洛夫律师说：我请求将其作为证据提交，法官大人。 费根森律师说：没有异议。 法官说：被接纳。 （被告的证据VI-120被接纳为证据） 由辩方施洛夫律师提问： 问：现在我们再看一下第一段，对吗？ 在这个版本中，加入了H-C-H-K企业，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你加入了秘密翻译组，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第124/页 问：HAA集团有限公司，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：TT Resources 1私人有限公司，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：Archwood基金，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：顺便问一下，Archwood拼写正确吗？ 答：是的。 问：GTV-澳大利亚，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后你有G-fashion，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：根据你的理解，GFNY代表什么？ 答：另一个G-fashion公司名。 问：那是G-fashion纽约，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：G-音乐，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：Medical Supply，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：盖特，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：G-Club ME，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第125/页 答：是的。 问：Southern Star，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：H储备？ 答：是的。 问：ACA资本？ 答：是的。 问：ALFA全球企业？ 答：是的。 问：汉密尔顿基金，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以我现在给你看的这份文件与我刚才给你看的第一份文件不同，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你仔细阅读了这两份文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在阅读第二份文件后，签署了第二份文件，而不是第一份文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在签署这份文件时，与费根森律师讨论过，对吗，现在指的是第二份文件？ 答：没有。 问：费根森律师没有与你一起审阅这份文件？ 费根森律师说：反对，法官大人。这涉及到我担心的问题。 法官说：驳回。 施洛夫律师说：他与证人有特权关系吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第126/页 法官说：他与你一起审阅过文件吗？ 费根森律师说：对不起，法官大人。 答：没有，是和律师一起。 问：你从未直接与费根森律师讨论过这份文件？ 答：没有。 问：文件本身是用美国检察官信笺纸打印的，对吗？如果有人可以为她指出。对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后签名是这张桌子上的检察官签署的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：米卡·费根森，莱恩·芬克，朱莉安娜·莫里和贾斯廷·霍顿，这四个人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：签名的人是米卡·费根森，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是你和他的办公室之间的协议，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这份协议给你提供了所谓的覆盖范围，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是他们承诺不起诉你的协议，对吗？ 答：如果我提供的都是实话。 问：我们会谈到实话部分。别担心。 他们给你提供了覆盖范围，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我只是想确认一下。协议是你和政府之间的，没有其他人？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第127/页 答：是的。 问：他们决定你是否说实话，对吗？ 答：不。 问：真的？ 费根森律师说：反对，法官大人。 法官说：驳回。 问：你与他们见面时—— 答：我自己决定。 问：你自己决定？ 答：是的。 问：所以如果你认为自己说实话，而他们认为你在撒谎，重要的是你说实话？ 答：不。 问：所以他们对你所说的话的看法很重要，对吗？ 答：不。 问：你在与他们的供述会谈中，每次他们和你谈话时，他们都告诉你要说实话，对吗？ 答：不。 问：好的。你记得在直接询问中作证时，你被问到一个问题，你说，如果你在这里撒谎，政府 可以撕毁你的不起诉协议，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他们是唯一可以撕毁协议的人，对吗？ 答：不。 问：那还有谁可以撕毁协议？我不能撕毁，对吗？ 法官说：不要作证。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第128/页 问：我可以撕毁你的合作协议吗？ 答：不可以。 问：法官可以撕毁你的合作协议吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。 法官说：这不是一个适当的问题。 问：唯一可以撕毁你的合作协议的人是站起来的费根森先生，对吗？ 费根森律师说：问过并回答过。 答：不。 问：你告诉我还有谁可以撕毁你的合作协议？ 答：我不知道。 费根森律师说：法官大人，这不是合作协议。 施洛夫律师说：我道歉。 问：不起诉协议。抱歉。你不知道还有谁可以撕毁协议，这是你的证词吗？ 费根森律师说：问过并回答过。 答：我不知道。 法官说：驳回反对。 答：我不知道。 施洛夫律师说：如果可以让我让证人看一下第二页，其中有这样一段话："据了解，如果政府 ，你能不能帮她标出来。 问：你可以花点时间为我读一下吗？你准备好了吗？ 答：是的。 问：文中写着，如果政府确定，实际上应该是李女士，在签署这份协议后犯了任何罪行或提 供了虚假、不完整或误导性的证词，我先说到这里。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第129/页 费根森律师说：法官大人，如果施洛夫律师可以称她为李女士。 施洛夫律师说：李女士。 问：李女士，第一句话让你对“政府”这个词得出什么结论？ 谁是这句话中的政府？ 答：美国政府。 问：在这句话中，你对美国政府的理解是费根森先生，对吗？ 答：不。 问：那是谁？ 答：我不知道。 问：你不知道？ 答：是的，我不知道。 问：但是是政府决定你在签署这份协议后是否犯了罪，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：是政府决定你是否提供了虚假证词，对吗？ 答：不。 法官说：有问题吗？ 问：是政府决定你的证词是否完整或不完整，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：是政府决定你的证词是否有误导性或准确，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：好的。让我们看下一段。下一段告诉你，本协议对本办公室以外的任何联邦、州或地方 检察机关没有约束力，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第130/页 问：本办公室是指纽约南区的办公室，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后它说，如果你要求，本办公室会将李女士的合作情况告知其他检察官，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后最后一段写道，关于此事，本协议取代了此前所有可能存在的理解、承诺或条件， 对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以协议是你和美国检察官办公室之间的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：如果可以请你滚动屏幕到下面。这份文件是你签署的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：是由律师签署的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：文件是在6月4日签署的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在你签署这份文件后，你回去见了费根森律师吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：对你而言，你对这份文件的理解是，美国检察官办��室不会起诉你，对吗？ 答：除非我说实话。 问：但他们不会起诉你，除非你遵守这份协议中的条件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你是在今天和昨天出庭作证之前签订的协议，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第131/页 问：李女士，你在直接询问中作证说你一生中有相当长的时间是在澳大利亚度过的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你有会计学位，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：顺便问一下，你的本科学位是什么？ 答：国际贸易。 问：国际贸易。是在中国的大学吗？ 答：是的。 问：你能告诉陪审团你的硕士学位是什么吗？ 答：会计。 问：作为会计硕士学生，你修了哪些课程？ 答：会计课程。 问：你的硕士课程多长时间？ 答：大约两年。 问：你在哪所大学读的这个两年课程？ 答：在澳大利亚。 问：哪所大学？ (停顿） 费根森律师说：法官大人，反对，相关性。 法官说：驳回。你可以说出你读硕士学位的大学名称。 (停顿） 答：麦考瑞大学。 问：你毕业后有没有获得任何注册会计师证书？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第132/页 答：是的。 问：你获得了什么证书？ 李女士，请你大声一点。 答：注册会计师。 问：我听不清。 答：注册会计师。 问：你作为注册会计师工作，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在澳大利亚成为注册会计师，你必须遵守一定的规定，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你必须每年更新你的执照，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你必须填写表格以确保你的执照得到更新，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你做到了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你作为会计师工作，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：会计工作需要细心，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：需要准确性，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：需要注重细节，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第133/页 答：是的。 问：你在做工作时具备这些能力，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在几家会计公司工作过，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：事实上，你现在也在一家会计公司工作，对吗？我不需要知道公司名称，但你现在在一 家会计公司工作，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：作为你工作的一部分，你为人们填写税务表格，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你也为机构做税务工作，还是只为个人做？ 答：两者都做。 问：我听不清。 答：两者都做。 问：即使现在，你也为个人和机构做税务工作，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：尤其是机构税务，这些是复杂的税务申报表，对吗？ 答：不，他们是小企业。 问：但它们需要琢磨和细心，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你开始听郭文贵的直播时，你是一名会计师，对吗？ 答：对不起，你能再说一遍吗？ 问：当然。当你第一次开始听郭文贵的直播时，你在做会计师工作，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第134/页 答：是的。 问：你第一次听郭文贵的直播是在2016年还是2017年？ 答：2017年。 问：2017年，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你作证说之所以看到Miles Guo的直播，是因为有朋友让你调查一个中国孩子的死亡情 况，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你的朋友选择你来调查，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：她请求你的帮助，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你同意帮助她，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你仔细调查了这个问题，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你希望你的朋友获得准确的信息，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你采取了措施确保你获得准确的信息，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后你把信息给了她，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在做这些事情的时候，第一次看到了郭先生的直播，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第135/页 答：之前。 问：好，你是之前看到的？ 答：是的。 问：那时候你开始听直播，对吗？ 答：不。 问：好，你是在看到那之前开始听直播的？ 答：是的。 问：你能告诉我们—— 费根森律师说：法官大人，我们能不能澄清一下问题是什么。 施洛夫律师说：直播。 费根森律师说：哪一个直播，法官大人。 辩方施洛夫律师提问： 问：李女士，第一次看到的直播是什么？ 答：VOA采访。 问：所以你第一次看到郭先生是在他接受VOA采访，这是你的证词吗？ 答：是的。 问：我们谈谈VOA的采访。你记得那是一个现场直播的采访吗？ 答：是的。 问：你是现场看的还是后来看重播的？ 答：现场。 问：你在澳大利亚现场观看，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你观看时看到采访被中断了吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第136/页 答：是的，它被切断了。 问：被切断了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：切断后，采访没有继续，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：采访被终止了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：采访者是一个叫龚小夏的女士，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：后来你知道，龚小夏因为采访郭文贵先生并在VOA上播出而被解雇了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你对此并不惊讶，因为你知道中共会做这样的事情，对吗？ 答：那是郭文贵说的。 问：那不是我的问题。我的问题是你是否知道中共会做这样的事情？ 答：我不知道。 问：你知道中共是否欢迎民主演讲吗？ 答：抱歉。 问：你熟悉中共，对吗？ 答：我不熟悉。 问：你不熟悉中共？ 答：不。 问：所以当你在直接询问中作证说到你对中共的看法和他们在中国拜访人们的情况时，你 并不了解中共，是你的证词吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第137/页 答：那时是的，我不熟悉。 问：那时你不熟悉什么是中共吗？ 答：是的。 问：中共代表什么？ 答：中国共产党。 问：它不民主，对吗？ 答：对。 问：中国不是个民主国家，对吗？ 答：对。 问：2014年或2016年，当你听美国之音时，中国不是一个民主国家，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对问题的形式，法官大人。她问的是复合问题。 法官说：这是一个复合问题。 问：2016年，当你听美国之音采访时，中国是一个民主国家吗？ 答：2017年？ 问：是的。 答：不是。 问：所以当你观看美国之音采访时，你知道中共有可能中断了那个采访，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：2016年，你在中国有家人，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。她误述了年份。证人作证说的是2017年。 法官说：我们在谈论2017年还是2016年？ 施洛夫律师说：我很乐意问2017年。 问：2017年你在中国有家人，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第138/页 答：是的。 问：2017年，你不会公开反对中共，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：2018年，你不会公开反对中共，对吗？ 答：2018年跟随郭文贵后，我开始了，自2017年起。所以在跟随郭文贵后，我开始了。 问：你开始公开反对中共？ 答：是的，在推特上。 问：在推特上？ 答：是的。 问：当你在推特上反对中共时，你用的是什么名字？ 答：木兰传奇。 问：那不是你的名字，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：所以你没有用真名，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你没有露面，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你用的是一个用户名，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你用了一个叫木兰的用户名，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你选择了木兰这个名字，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第139/页 问：你选择木兰这个名字是因为木兰代表一个以男人身份战斗的女人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：郭先生没有为你选择这个名字，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：事实上，当你选择这个名字时，你还不认识郭先生，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。 答：不，我已经认识他了。 问：所以是你选择了木兰这个名字，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在推特上发帖，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你用木兰的名字发帖，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那并不是你以真实身份公开反对中共，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对，已经问过并回答了。我们反对这种拉扯，法官大人。 法官说：这个问题稍有不同。你可以回答这个问题。 答：对不起。你能重复一下问题吗？你能再说一遍吗？ 问：当你在推特上反对中共时，你没有使用你的真实姓名，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你没有使用你的真实姓名是因为你害怕中共会对此做出反应，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你害怕中共，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第140/页 问：所以你知道如果你公开反对中共，中共可能会伤害你，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：从逻辑上讲，其他人可能会担心他们公开反对中共会引起反应，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。 法官说：关于其他人可能担心什么，这个问题不成立。 问：回到VOA采访。采访被中断了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是你第一次看到郭文贵，我说的是对还是错？ 答：对。 问：我说的是对的是吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是你第一次看到他吗？ 答：是的。 问：你看完采访后，研究了郭文贵是谁，对吗？ 答：我没有研究。我关注了他。 问：你是怎么找到他的？ 答：在YouTube和推特上。 问：对。所以你在YouTube上找到了他，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后你在推特上找到了他，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：郭文贵没有打电话给你让你在YouTube上关注他，对吗？ 答：他在直播中说的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第141/页 问：但你还没看过直播。你刚刚说你看了美国之音采访，然后去YouTube，然后去推特？ 答：是的。 问：所以你是自己去YouTube上找他的，对吗？ 答：是的，在YouTube视频中他说关注推特，所以我找到了推特账号。 问：对。但你是自己去YouTube上的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在某个时候得知郭先生的YouTube账号被关闭了，对吗？ 答：没有被关闭。 问：郭文贵的YouTube账号从未被关闭？ 答：没有，只是没有直播功能了。 问：我没听懂，法官大人。 答：这个功能，所以没有直播功能，但YouTube账号还在。 问：所以如果郭文贵想在YouTube上直播，他做不到，对吗？ 答：他一开始可以，几个月后这个功能被关闭了。 问：我真的没明白。 法官说：你可以重读答案。 （记录被重读） 问：所以在2017年的某个时候，郭文贵不能再在YouTube上直播了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他的推特账号也在2017年被关闭了，对吗？ 答：我不记得确切是哪一年。 问：你不记得什么？ 答：我不记得确切是哪一年。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第142/页 问：但你知道在某个时候他的推特账号也被关闭了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以你在哪里关注和找郭先生的直播？ 答：另一个社交媒体平台。 问：那是什么？ 答：我不记得名字了。也是一个非常流行的平台，还有一个叫Live Stream的平台。 问：Live Stream？ 答：是的。 问：他从未在TikTok上，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：所以他不在Instagram上，对吗？ 答：是的，另一个是Instagram。 问：你的证词是郭文贵在Instagram上？ 答：是的。 问：所以你在Instagram上看到他，对吗？你在Instagram有关注他吗？ 答：是的。 问：2017年他在Instagram上有多少粉丝？ 答：我不记得了。 问：2018年呢？ 答：我不记得了。 问：2019年呢？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你知道2019年他是否有Instagram账户吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第143/页 答：是的，现在还有。 问：即使现在他仍然有一个Instagram账号吗？ 答：是的。 问：你现在仍然关注它，对吗？因为这是你唯一知道的方法。 答：我现在没有关注。 问：那你怎么知道它仍然活跃��我继续问。你在直接证词中也提到你决定为郭文贵的生日 烤一个蛋糕，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我想确认一下。当时你烤蛋糕的时候，你并不认识郭文贵本人，对吗？ 答：你说的认识本人是什么意思？ 问：你从未在群聊中见过他，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：我听不到你的回答。 答：没有在群聊中，只有在推特上。 问：对。所以推特上关注并不算见面？其实，我撤回这个问题。 你在推特上关注他，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在推特上他从未给你发过私人消息，对吗？ 答：是的，我有收到过私人消息。 问：我没有问你是否有收到过私人消息。我的问题是，在你烤蛋糕的时候，郭先生有没有通 过推特给你发过私人消息？ 费根森律师说：这个问题已经问过并回答了。 法官说：反对无效。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第144/页 答：你能再说一遍吗？ 问：你在直接证词中提到你决定为郭先生的生日烤一个蛋糕，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：显然你今天坐在这里，你记得他的生日，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你烤了那个蛋糕，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在你烤蛋糕的时候，郭先生从未给你发过私人消息，对吗？ 答：不，通过推特给我发过私人消息。 问：所以你的证词是郭先生在你烤蛋糕之前通过推特给你发过私人消息？ 答：是的。 问：所以你烤了这个蛋糕，并把它交给了墨尔本农场的领袖，这是你在直接证词中的说法， 对吗？ 答：不，当时还没有农场。 问：是给了那个团体吗？ 答：是的。 问：那个团体是什么？ 答：支持者团体。 问：哪个支持者团体？ 答：墨尔本支持者团体。 问：这个支持者团体是支持爆料革命运动，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以你把生日蛋糕交给了他，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第145/页 答：是的。 问：他拍了照片并发给了郭文贵，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：根据你的说法，郭先生感谢你烤了蛋糕，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：根据你的说法，这就是你开始与郭文贵互动的方式，对吗？ 答：在Whatsapp上互动。 问：他邀请你加入了一个Whatsapp群组，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你开始在Whatsapp群组中交流，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：李女士，可以说那个Whatsapp群组中有超过一百人吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你不记得那个Whatsapp群组中有多少人吗？ 答：最初大约有20人。 问：你认为最初Whatsapp群组中只有20人？ 答：是的。 问：你记得其他19人吗？ 答：我不记得。 问：所以Whatsapp群组的20人成员变多了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你只是那个Whatsapp群组中的一员，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第146/页 问：群组中有人自愿在不同领域提供帮助，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：有人自愿翻译，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：有人自愿制作横幅，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：有人自愿做饭和举办节日活动，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：每个人在这个群组中都有平等的发言权或发言机会，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是一个群组，所以你并不知道是谁负责，对吗？ 答：每个人的名字都有显示。 问：对。但你不知道郭先生是否亲自管理自己的账户，还是有人替他管理，对吗？ 答：不，是郭文贵亲自管理，因为有语音信息，是他的声音。 问：但当你收到语音信息之外的任何信息时，你不会知道是谁在管理那个账户，对吗？ 没关系。我们继续。对吧，李女士，有天你决定自愿做翻译，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：当你自愿做翻译时，你会翻译文件，是从中文到英文还是从英文到中文？ 答：是的，两者都有。 问：你两者都做过，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你两者都做是因为你精通这两种语言，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第147/页 问：你翻译了郭先生制作的直播内容，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在直接证词中提到你还翻译了法律文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你翻译了什么法律文件？ 答：与郭文贵有关的。 问：好，但具体是什么？ 答：我不记得具体内容了。 问：但你记得它们是法律文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你同意法律文件可能会很专业，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你能够翻译它们，对吗？ 答：我尽力而为。 问：你用一种语言阅读它们，然后翻译成另一种语言，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：显然你做得很好，因为你成了翻译小组的负责人，对吗？ 法官说：你认为你做得很好吗？ 证人说：是的。 问：然后你成了翻译小组的负责人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你翻译小组中有多少人？ 答：最初只有十个人。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第148/页 问：十个人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你管理十个人进行翻译，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后这个小组壮大了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：随着它的发展，你继续管理这个小组，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后你开始因为管理这些翻译工作的人而得到了报酬，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：你从来没有因为管理翻译小组而得到任何报酬？ 答：从2021年7月起，法治基金停止了对所有农场的资助。 问：我没有问你是否资助所有农场。我的问题是你是否因为管理翻译小组而得到了报酬？ 答：有的。 问：你得到了多少报酬？ 答：一万美元。 问：一万美元，对吗？那是一万美元一个月，不是一万美元一年？ 答：是的。 问：所以是一万美元一个月，一年有12个月，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你可以决定如何使用这笔钱，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：没有人告诉你必须怎么花这笔钱，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第149/页 答：是的。 问：你可以把这笔钱全部自己留着，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你可以分发这笔钱，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：到目前为止没有人要求你对这几年得到的一万美元做任何账目，对吗？ 答：你能再说一遍吗？ 问：当然。没有人要求你提交一份详细的账单，说明你如何花这笔钱，对吗？ 答：我向法治基金发送发票。 问：不，不。你向法治基金发送了不同的账单。我的问题是关于那一万美元的-- 费根森律师说：法官大人，她已经作证了，这个问题已经问过并回答过了。 法官说：反对有效。 问：你记得今天坐在这里——我撤回。 你因为管理翻译小组得到了每月一万美元的报酬，对吗？ 费根森律师说：问过并回答过了，法官大人。 法官说：反对有效。 问：2020年你管理了多少人？ 答：数百人。 问：你管理了数百名翻译人员，这是你的证词吗？ 答：是的。 问：你能告诉我你具体管理了什么吗？ 答：我从郭文贵那里得到任务，然后把任务分配给我的小组成员。 问：唯一给你翻译任务的人是郭文贵，这是你的证词吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第150/页 答：大多数任务直接来自郭文贵。 问：女士，可以说其他农场里还有数百名翻译人员在做同样的事情，对吗？ 答：不完全一样，不是。 问：他们在翻译，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：从中文翻译成英文，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：从英文翻译成中文，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：一样的事情？ 答：不一样。 问：有什么不同？ 答：我们翻译更多的法律文件和更重要的任务。 问：那是您的看法，对吗？ 答：不，郭文贵告诉我的。 问：所以郭文贵可能告诉过您这些，但最后那是您的看法，对吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，我反对。 法官说：反对有效。 问：郭文贵告诉过您，您是翻译重要文件的人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您翻译了哪些重要文件？ 答：很多，我不记得了。 问：告诉我一个。我还是继续问下一个问题吧。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第151/页 您在直接询问中作证说郭文贵让您成为法治基金的董事，对吗，那是您的证词？ 答：是的。 问：可以这么说吗，郭文贵实际上只是问您是否愿意成为法治基金的董事？他是这么问您 的，对吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，她应该先回答。 法官说：证人请回答。 答：他说我选你成为法治基金的董事。 问：所以他说他选你成为法治基金的董事，你说是。这是你的证词吗？ 答：是的。 问：他在法治基金的董事会吗？ 答：没有。 问：他告诉你他有权这样做吗？ 答：没有。 问：法治基金董事会里还有其他董事，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：事实上，政府给你看了一份文件，上面有包括比尔·格茨在内的人的名字，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你认识比尔·格茨吗？ 答：是的。 问：比尔·格茨是谁？ 答：他是美国的一个记者。 问：他是一个董事，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第152/页 问：一个叫约翰·摩根的人是董事，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：约翰·摩根不是董事吗？ 答：不是法治基金的董事。 问：还有谁是法治基金的董事？ 答：凯尔·巴斯。 问：凯尔·巴斯在法治基金的角色是什么？ 答：法治基金的主席。 问：还有谁是法治基金的董事？ 答：我不记得了。 问：班农先生呢？ 答：他是法治社会的主席。 问：他与法治基金没有关系，对吗？ 答：对。 问：还有谁是法治基金的董事？ 费根森律师说：证人已被问过这个问题，证人说她不记得了。 施洛夫律师说：我们会找到一份能帮助她记忆的文件。 问：Sara魏丽红在董事会，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：Feng先生，F-E-N-G？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你在法治基金的董事职位上有多长时间？ 答：从一开始到去年。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第153/页 问：你记得一个叫Victor Cerda的人在法治基金吗？ 答：是的。 问：他的角色是什么？ 答：董事。 问：他是像你一样的董事，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：作为法治基金的董事，你参加了董事会会议，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：郭文贵没有参加那些董事会会议，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我是对的，还是说他参加了，参加了哪一个？ 答：你是对的，他没有参加会议。 问：法治基金有定期的董事会会议，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那些会议是记录，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：有人做笔记，然后写成正式的董事会会议记录，对吗？ 答：我不知道。我不做笔记。 问：那些会议记录你作为董事是可以看的，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：作为董事，你从未要求法治基金提供财务文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：事实上，你没有权力要求法治基金的文件，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第154/页 答：我不知道。 问：你不知道作为法治基金的董事你有什么权力吗？ 答：我只知道我可以投票。 问：你确实参与投票了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：投票事项会提交给你，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你决定如何投票，对吗？ 答：我咨询郭文贵。 问：对不起，请再说一遍。 答：我咨询郭文贵。 问：你在董事会投票前咨询了郭文贵？ 答：是的。 问：是你决定咨询他的？ 答：他说我可以问他。 问：没错，他说如果你愿意的话可以问他，对吗？ 答：有时他给我指示。 问：什么指示？ 答：如何投票。 问：关于什么的？ 答：关于一些事项。 问：告诉我们，什么事项？ 答：我不记得了。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第155/页 问：连一个郭文贵告诉你如何投票的事项也想不起来了吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：法治基金支持了乌克兰的人民，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：郭文贵有没有告诉你在这个问题上如何投票？ 答：我不记得了。 问：法治基金帮助了那些因��视为反共而受困的人，对吗？ 答：我们救助所有的中国人。 问：你投票支持这些救助行动，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你投票支持在疫情期间分发个人防护装备（PPE），对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：有提议是否将PPE送到医院，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：有提议是否将PPE捐赠给中国人民，对吗？ 答：我不知道。我不记得了。 问：有提议是否将PPE提供给纽约警察局，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：就是说今天你坐在这里，却不记得作为法治基金的董事投过票的任何一件事情？ 我继续，如果有人要想投诉，WhatsApp群组的一个功能是允许人们提出投诉，对吗？ 答：你可以再说一遍吗？ 问：好的。如果有人要想投诉，WhatsApp群组的一个功能是允许人们提出投诉，对吗？ 答：不是。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第156/页 问：所以如果你有意见，你不能在WhatsApp群组中提出吗？ 答：可以。 问：你可以提出，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：有人投诉了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：有人投诉你，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：人们投诉你对他们不好，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你不记得翻译们抱怨你因为对他们的工作不满意，就刻薄他们？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你不记得有人在WhatsApp群组中抱怨你对他们粗鲁无礼？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你记不记得这些投诉是在你在铁血组时提出的吗？ 答：对不起。你能再说一遍吗？ 问：我们来看一个辩方的物证，是张照片。你在屏幕上看到照片了吗？ 答：是的。 问：你认出照片中的人吗？ 答：是的。 问：他们是谁？ 答：郭文贵和飞飞。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我可以将文件和这张照片作为证据提交吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第157/页 费根森律师说：反对，这不相关。 法官说：反对无效。物证采纳。继续问。 问：那是飞飞，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你和飞飞相处不好，对吗？ 施洛夫律师说：抱歉，我忘了展示这张照片。 （辩方物证60496被纳为证据） 问：那是飞飞，她是支持者之一，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：她也在IBG组里，是吗？ 答：IBG组是什么？ 问：你不知道IBG组是什么？你不知道IBG是什么？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，她能不能停止评论？ 法官说：证人说她不知道IBG组是什么。请继续提问。 问：她是铁血组的成员吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以IBG是铁血组，对吗？ 答：我们不叫IBG组，只叫铁血组。 问：铁血组，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：她是其中一员，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你和她相处不好，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第158/页 答：没有。 问：你和她有争执，对吗？ 答：抱歉。 问：你和飞飞在铁血组中相处不好，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：我们再来看一看辩方物证60497，也是一张照片。你看到那张照片了吗，女士？ 答：看到了。 问：那是谁的照片？ 答：Lei Ann Li。 问：她是谁？ 答：玉米地小妹。 问：你能大声一点吗？ 答：玉米地小妹。 问：她也叫Lian，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你认出这张照片，对吗？ 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我请求将其作为证据。 法官说：采纳。 （辩方证物60497被纳为证据） 法官说：我们已经到了3点，所以今天就到这里。请记住，你们不可以相互讨论或者与任何 其他人讨论案情。不可以让任何人在你们面前讨论本案，也不要通过任何渠道阅读、观看 或收听关于奔案的任何消息。祝大家晚上愉快，明早9点准时见。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第159/页 （下一页继续） （陪审团不在场） 法官说：李女士，你可以离开了。不要讨论这个案子。 证人说：好的。谢谢。 （证人暂时离场） 法官说：请坐。施洛夫律师，您预计明天的交叉询问要多久？ 施洛夫律师说：可能两个小时。直接询问是多久？ 法官说：我不记得了。 施洛夫律师说：我也不记得了，法官大人，但我会尽量简短。我会尽力。 法官说：好的。你们明天还安排了其他证人在吗？ 费根森律师说：是的，法官大人。 法官说：休庭之前还有什么要说的吗？ 费根森律师说：简而言之，法官大人，感谢您在边栏讨论时的点评。我只想简明扼要地说件 事。我不想让法庭对我的问题产生误解。我明白那个问题的症结在于“担心”这个词太意味深 长。而在那段证词之前，李女士被告知他们全部都要被抓起来。所以我以为她早知道了。那 个引导性问题的症结在于证据没有基础。我还以为有证据基础来询问她是否担心会被逮捕 ，但是她刚刚才得知此事。就是这样，法官大人。非常感谢边上讨论，对任何误会我深表歉 意。 法官说：好的。祝你们晚上愉快。 （休庭至2024年6月7日上午9点） SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第160/页 询问索引 证人：李娅 页数 直接询问：费根森律师 1403 交叉询问：施洛夫律师 1540 政府物证 证据编号 收证 协议 15和 VI192-T 1405 VI28和 VI29 1504 VI34 1426 VI35 1428 VI65 1442 VI66 1524 VI87 1514 VI101 1517 VI102 1518 VI-106 1473 VI-107 1475 VI-108 1477 VI-109 1482 VI-110 1483 VI-113 1471 VI-114 1454 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第161/页 VI-115 1450 VI-116 1449 VI155 1435 VI155-T 1435 VI-160 1456 VI-160-T 1457 VI171 1412 VI181 1422 VI181-T 1423 VI-189 1460 VI-189-T 1461 VI-190 1463 VI-190-T 1463 VI192 1405 VI194 1492 辩方物证 证据编号 收证 60496 1597 60497 1599 60504 1556 VI-120 1558 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-6庭审记录 第162/页 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
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