Original Court Transcript(原始庭审记录)
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
v. 23 Cr. 118 (AT)
MILES GUO,
Defendant. Trial
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New York, N.Y.
June 7, 2024
8:45 a.m.
Before:
HON. ANALISA TORRES,
District Judge
-and a Jury-
APPEARANCES
DAMIAN WILLIAMS
United States Attorney for the
Southern District of New York
BY: MICAH F. FERGENSON
RYAN B. FINKEL
JUSTIN HORTON
JULIANA N. MURRAY
Assistant United States Attorneys
SABRINA P. SHROFF
Attorney for Defendant
PRYOR CASHMAN LLP
Attorneys for Defendant
BY: SIDHARDHA KAMARAJU
JOHN M. KILGARD
CLARE P. TILTON
ALSTON & BIRD LLP
Attorneys for Defendant
BY: E. SCOTT SCHIRICK
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ALSO PRESENT:
Isabel Loftus, Paralegal Specialist, USAO
Ruben Montilla, Defense Paralegal
Tuo Huang, Interpreter (Mandarin)
Shi Feng, Interpreter (Mandarin)
Yu Mark Tang, Interpreter (Mandarin)
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(Trial resumed; jury not present)
THE COURT: Note your appearances, please.
MR. FINKEL: Good morning, your Honor. Ryan Finkel,
Justin Horton, Juliana Murray and Micah Fergenson who will be
joining us shortly for the government. We're joined at counsel
table by Special Agent Robert this morning.
MR. SCHIRICK: Good morning, your Honor.
Scott Schirick for the defendant, and I will be joined
shortly by Mr. Kamaraju, Ms. Shroff and Mr. Barkan, and we're
at counsel's table with Mr. Guo.
THE COURT: Please be seated. Is there anything
before we start today?
MR. FINKEL: Not from the government.
MS. SHROFF: No, your Honor, not from us.
THE COURT: So if you'll have the witness ready to
take the stand by 8:59.
MR. FINKEL: We'll do that, your Honor.
THE COURT: Thank you.
(Recess)
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THE COURT: Please get the jury.
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Please be seated. Good morning, jurors.
Thank you again for coming back exactly on time. We're going
to continue with the cross examination of the witness.
Ms. Li, remember that you're still under oath.
MS. SHROFF: May I proceed, your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
YA LI,
CROSS-EXAMINATION CONTINUED
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. Ms. Li, let me direct your attention to Defense Exhibit
60497. Could you publish it, please.
This is Lei Ann Li, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And she goes by the name of Cornfield sister, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You did not approve of her work product, correct?
A. Sorry.
Q. Who did she work for?
A. I work for Miles Guo.
Q. Who did she work for?
A. She work for Miles Guo.
Q. Which company did she work for?
A. G Fashion.
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Q. And you were not a fan of her design at G Fashion, correct?
A. Sorry.
Q. You were not a fan of her designs at G Fashion, correct?
A. Not her design.
Q. Now, you testified also that you were the leader of -- you
may take that down. Thank you.
You were the leader of G translators, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you supervised somebody name Xin Sheng, correct?
A. Do you mean Xin Sheng?
Q. I didn't hear her.
A. Do you mean Xin Sheng?
Q. X-I-N, S-H-E-N-G.
A. Yes.
Q. And he complained about the way you treated him in the
group, correct?
A. Once.
Q. He left the group, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And he left because you mistreated him he said, correct?
A. No.
Q. He left with 17 other people who complained about the way
you treated them, correct?
A. No.
Q. Seventeen people left from your group, correct?
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A. Yes.
Q. All at once, correct?
A. Some come back.
Q. I could not hear you.
A. Some come back.
Q. I did not ask you if some came back.
MR. FERGENSON: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled. Did 17 leave?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
Q. And there was a long discussion about all of these issues,
right, during a meeting, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And Mr. Guo was part of that meeting, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And they were part of the meeting, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were part of that meeting, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And during the meeting they complained, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And Mr. Guo told everyone, look at yourself first before
complaining about others, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Now, after this meeting that Mr. Guo had with these
individuals, some of them came back, correct?
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A. Yes.
Q. And even after they came back, other people still
complained about how you treated them, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. Let me show you what is marked as a defense exhibit, and it
will get pulled up just momentarily. This is Exhibit 60499.
Do you recognize this person?
A. Yes.
Q. Who is that?
A. Sara Wei.
Q. And Sara Wei worked with whom?
A. With Miles Guo.
Q. Sure. Which group did she work for?
A. VOG.
Q. And that is Voice of Guo, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And she was also somebody who started as a volunteer
translator, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you did not get along with her either, correct?
A. No.
Q. And then you were part of the Iron Blood Group, correct?
A. Sorry, who?
Q. Was she part of the Iron Blood Group?
A. No, she left.
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Q. She left the Iron Blood Group? I didn't ask you if she
left, ma'am.
A. She left before Iron Blood Group.
Q. Before she left, she was part --
A. No. Iron Blood Group establish after she left.
Q. So she was never part of the Iron Blood Group?
A. No, never.
Q. And you did not like her, correct?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Now, let's move to the videos that you were shown.
Let's talk about the videos that you were shown during your
direct, right. You remember those?
A. Sorry.
Q. You testified on direct with Mr. Fergenson, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were shown I believe eight videos, correct?
A. Which video?
Q. You were shown videos on the screen, and you testified
about them, the broadcast?
A. Yes.
Q. You remember that?
A. Yes. Which one?
Q. Let's start with GXVI-191.
A. Yes.
Q. You remember testifying about this one?
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A. Yes.
Q. And this video is how long?
A. Nearly two hours.
Q. Nearly two hours, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you translated this video as part of your translation
duties, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you did that, you said, as part of request from Miles
Guo, correct?
A. We translated all his broadcast videos, yes.
Q. So let's pull up 192-T, please. And if we could just make
it larger. Do you recall being shown this document?
A. Yes.
Q. And let's see if we can start with this paragraph that
says, This is a verbal agreement, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You translated, not this document, but you translated the
video that has this language in it, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Okay. Could you read that for the jury what it says?
A. This is a verbal agreement I want to reach with the Rule of
Law Fund. And according to the basic requirements of New York
State for C3 and C4 public welfare nonprofit organizations, now
as long 70 percent of all the money in it was donated by
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Wengui, it shouldn't be called Guo Wengui. It was donated by
Guo Wengui's family foundation and related companies.
Q. Thank you. And even though you didn't watch the complete
video, you translated this as well, right?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. Which translation are you
referring to?
MS. SHROFF: I'll rephrase.
Q. You watched the complete video, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you translated the complete video, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. But you remember testifying that Mr. Guo trusted your group
to do the translations, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you translated every broadcast, you said that, right?
A. Not full. We not translated the full video. We translated
the clips, but I don't remember this clips.
Q. So you don't remember if this clip is even part of the
video; is that your testimony?
A. No, this is part of the video.
Q. I'll move forward. Thank you very much. You may take that
down.
Now, you testified minutes ago that you listened to
all of Mr. Guo's broadcast; is that correct?
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A. Yes.
Q. And during his broadcast he discussed, did he not, the
seizure of his assets, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. He discussed the seizure of his assets in Hong Kong,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. He discussed the Pax litigation, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. He talked about somebody named Shan Wenjian, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. He said he was a CCP spy, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Guo stated his belief that it was CCP who had
instigated the Pax litigation, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And he had also broadcasted that he felt he was forced into
declaring bankruptcy, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection, hearsay.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. He said his bankruptcy is CCP persecuted.
Q. Exactly. He said he was forced into it, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And he said that he felt forced into it because an
unreasonable time had been imposed for him to pay back the
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money, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. And you testified, did you not, about the unfairness of the
bankruptcy trustee, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to hearsay. He said.
MS. SHROFF: It's not introduced for the truth of the
matter.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, it's clearly hearsay.
THE COURT: Step up, please.
(Continued on next page)
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(At the sidebar)
THE COURT: What is the purpose of these statements
that you're eliciting now?
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, the purpose of it is to show
that the government's theory of Mr. Miles Guo lying in his
broadcast is not true. In fact, he said all kinds of things on
his broadcast, including his financial situation. So when they
put in that he was rich; he had a ton of money, it's equally
responsive under the rule of completeness, number one, to show
that he was candid to all of the people watching his broadcast.
But, number two, it is irrelevant to anyone of us eliciting
this information whether or not Mr. Miles Guo's statement in
itself is true or false.
The fact is that he made the statement. It reflects
his state of mind, which is an exception to the hearsay rule,
and it is not being offered for the truth of the matter
asserted. They elicited that it was the Pax litigation that
drove him here. They elicited information about the Pax
litigation, and they elicit only clips from the broadcast. To
complete that picture is the reason those questions are being
posed. And it's two questions, this one and the next one, and
then I'm done.
MR. FERGENSON: If it's not being offered for the
truth, we're okay with it coming in. Your Honor can make clear
to the jury that those statements are not being offered by his
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defense lawyers for its truth.
MS. SHROFF: We have no objection. If the Court deems
it appropriate to instruct the jury that this is being offered
to show Mr. Guo's state of mind at that time, and it's all it
should be considered for.
MR. FERGENSON: Just offered not for its truth because
she's referencing it wasn't just that he said it, the last
question was he testified.
MS. SHROFF: I never said testified.
MR. FERGENSON: He can't testify through the lawyers,
so I think it would be appropriate to tell the jury the
references in what he said out of court are not being offered
for its truth.
MS. SHROFF: We have no objection.
THE COURT: That is what I will do.
MS. SHROFF: And I said "you" testified, meaning she
testified. It's right here. It's realtime read back. You
should read it.
MR. FERGENSON: If I misheard, I heard he.
THE COURT: All right. Let's go back.
(Continued on next page)
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(In open court)
THE COURT: Members of the jury, the statement that
the witness said came from Mr. Guo and the statements that are,
I expect, to be forthcoming from Mr. Guo are not offered for
the truth of the matter asserted. You may continue.
MS. SHROFF: I think I have to re-approach.
(Continued on next page)
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(At the sidebar)
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, respectfully I ask the Court
to say they're being introduced to show Mr. Guo's state of mind
at that time.
THE COURT: I don't think it's an appropriate
instruction.
MS. SHROFF: Okay. Thank you.
(Continued on next page)
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(In open court)
THE COURT: You may continue.
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. He also stated, did he not, that he felt that the
bankruptcy trustee was acting improperly, correct?
A. Sorry, acting what?
Q. Improperly, not properly.
A. He said the trustee is CCP spy.
Q. And he also said, did he not, that the trustee had made
$385 million in legal fees, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You received a subpoena from the bankruptcy trustee,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. When you received the subpoena, you were in Australia; is
that right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you are familiar with the fact that a subpoena is a
legal document, correct?
A. No, I don't know.
Q. Did you look at the subpoena?
A. No, Miles Guo ask us to throw away.
Q. I understand Miles Guo ask you to do all of these things.
I understand that. My question to you was, did you read the
subpoena?
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A. No.
Q. So you got a subpoena. You did not read it, but somehow or
the other you knew it was a subpoena?
A. Yes, because from Paul Hastings.
Q. From who?
A. From Paul Hastings.
Q. From Paul Hastings?
A. Yeah, the trustee legal firm.
Q. So you knew it came from a legal firm, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. A legal firm has lawyers, correct?
A. Legal firm of trustee.
Q. But they have lawyers, right?
A. Yes.
Q. The lawyers sent you a legal document, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You told Miles Guo that you got a legal document, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And to tell him that you got a legal document, you have to
know what the legal document is, correct?
A. I don't know, just legal document. Any legal document
Miles Guo said throw away.
Q. Any legal document?
A. Yes.
Q. So if you got a legal document about your daughter, you
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would just throw away?
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you.
Q. Is it your testimony, ma'am, that you did not open the
legal document?
A. Yes, not open.
Q. You did not open it?
A. No.
Q. How did you get the document by the way?
A. By the mail.
Q. Which mail?
A. FedEx.
Q. Excuse me.
A. FedEx.
Q. FedEx?
A. Yeah.
Q. Federal Express?
A. Yeah.
Q. You got a Federal Express envelope from a law firm name
Paul Hastings. You took the envelope and you threw it in the
garbage. You did not even open the Federal Express envelope?
A. Yes.
Q. You never opened the envelope itself?
A. Yes.
Q. Federal Express ask you to sign for receipt, correct?
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A. Yes.
Q. Did you sign the receipt?
A. Yes.
Q. So you knew that you got the document -- I'll take that
back.
Paul Hastings you testified is a law firm, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you did not at all -- you were not at all curious why a
law firm was reaching out to you?
A. Sorry.
Q. I'll take that back. Now, there came a time, did you not,
that you knew you were subpoenaed by the trustee, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you knew the name of the trustee, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you knew how to get in touch with the trustee, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. How did you find out the name of the trustee?
A. Miles Guo broadcast.
Q. So --
A. On broadcast Miles Guo says the trustee is a Luc Despins,
and his program explain the bankruptcy case in the broadcast.
Q. So in the broadcast Miles Guo told you that there was a
trustee at Paul Hastings, correct?
A. Yes, and he also ask the translation task to translate this
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legal document for him.
Q. And so you knew what the legal document was, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So you knew it was a subpoena, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you knew that's a legal document, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you know that if a legal document is issued by someone
who is from the CCP, it still remains a legal document,
correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection, your Honor. She's
testifying.
A. Miles Guo told us.
THE COURT: Overruled.
A. Miles Guo told us to throw away.
THE COURT: Very compound question there, so if you'll
just take it in bites.
Q. You testified on direct yesterday, right --
A. Yes.
Q. -- that even if you're targeted by the CCP, you cannot
scam. That was your testimony, right?
A. Yes.
Q. So even if you're sent a subpoena by CCP, you cannot avoid
it, correct?
A. That time Miles Guo said throw it away. That time I
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totally trust him so I throw it away.
Q. Okay. So you totally trusted him and you threw it away,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So there was a time when you thought you could just ignore
all legal documents because Mr. Guo told you?
A. Yes.
Q. Anything he told you, you would do, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Anything?
A. Yes.
Q. When Mr. Guo told you not to pay the person in your farm
for the G/Club membership, you didn't listen to him, correct?
You paid them that $10,000 back anyway, right?
A. Yes.
Q. So when you didn't want to listen to Miles Guo, you were
able to not listen to Miles Guo, correct?
A. That's different.
Q. No. My question is, you didn't listen to Miles Guo,
correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, she can't just say no.
She has to ask a question.
MS. SHROFF: I didn't ask if it was different.
MR. FERGENSON: She can't argue with the witness.
THE COURT: So you need to -- if a question calls for
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a yes or no answer, you'll answer yes or no or I don't remember
or I don't understand. You understand? You don't add
additional information.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, some may be difficult to
answer yes or no. It doesn't mean she can argue with the
witness.
THE COURT: Yes, that's right. There is some questions
that are difficult to answer yes or no. And the witness is a
very intelligent individual who will be able to discern whether
she can answer yes or no. Go ahead.
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. He also asked you to move to Abu Dhabi, correct?
A. Sorry.
Q. Miles Guo asked you to move to Abu Dhabi, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you said no, correct?
A. Wrong.
Q. Did you move to Abu Dhabi?
A. Because later he send someone else, not me.
Q. Let's try the question again. He asked you to move to Abu
Dhabi, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You didn't go, correct?
A. No.
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Q. You said no, correct?
A. Wrong.
Q. And after you said no, he sent someone else, correct?
A. I didn't say no. I said I prepare to go, but finally he
send someone else instead of me.
Q. You recall meeting with these prosecutors and discussing
this very topic. You discussed this topic with the
prosecutors, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you told these prosecutors while you were meeting with
them, correct, that you never said yes or no to Mr. Guo about
going to Abu Dhabi, correct?
A. No, I didn't say.
Q. You then told these prosecutors that you didn't want to go
for family reasons, correct?
A. No, I didn't say.
Q. And that's why you didn't go, correct?
A. No.
MS. SHROFF: Just one second, your Honor, please.
Q. Do you recall telling these prosecutors that in reality you
could not go to Abu Dhabi because you had family in Australia?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. You then told them, did you not, that you were asked to go
there permanently, and you said no?
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THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Now, according to you, Miles Guo's broadcast took you to
Paul Hastings, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to form.
THE COURT: What do you mean took you to?
MS. SHROFF: I'm happy to rephrase. I was trying to
move along.
Q. You found the trustee at Paul Hastings, correct?
A. Not me, Miles Guo said.
Q. Without Miles Guo, you would not know where that trustee
was, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And so Miles Guo told you where the trustee was, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then you contacted the trustee all on your own,
correct?
A. That's after I wake up.
Q. Oh, yes. You woke up, and then you went to the trustee,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. Right. But the only reason you found the trustee is
because he told you where the trustee was, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. SHROFF: I don't think there was ever an answer.
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Q. You then contacted the trustee all on your own, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You didn't tell Mr. Guo I'm going to contact the trustee,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. And then you talked to that trustee without anyone else
ever finding out, correct?
THE COURT: How could she possibly testify as to what
others knew. She can only testify as to what she knows.
Q. Nobody from the Himalaya Alliance broadcasted that you were
talking to the trustee when you reached out to him, correct?
A. I don't understand. Sorry.
Q. In August of 2023, you reached out to the trustee, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You did not tell Miles Guo, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, we've covered this.
A. Yes.
Q. You didn't tell Long Island David you were reaching out to
the trustee, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You told Long Island David?
A. I couldn't tell anyone Alliance.
Q. Exactly. You told no one, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you started talking to the trustee in August of 2023,
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correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Now, you testified yesterday about social media, correct?
A. Which social media?
Q. You testified about Mr. Guo's YouTube account, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You testified specifically that YouTube had suspended his
broadcast ability, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And because they had suspended his broadcast ability, he
couldn't broadcast, correct?
A. He started broadcast other platform.
Q. Right. That was correct was GTV, right?
A. No.
Q. Which other platform?
A. Twitter, Instagram, Live Stream and then Go Media.
Q. And because of the issues he was having with broadcast, he
thought of creating GTV; is that correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
THE COURT: She can't testify as to what another
person was thinking.
Q. He told you what he was thinking, right, on the broadcast?
MR. FERGENSON: He told her something. I don't know
if she can get inside of his head, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled. You can answer. Did he say
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what he was thinking on the broadcast.
A. He said he want to establish a media platform.
Q. If you use that mic we will all be able to hear you,
please.
A. He said he's going to establish a media platform like
YouTube, Twitter.
Q. He said he wanted to establish a media platform?
A. He will.
Q. Okay. And he told everyone in the broadcast that it would
take time to build this platform, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. And he told you that the platform would have to be, not
you, told people in the broadcast that the platform would have
to be such that it would not be vulnerable to disruption
attempts by the CCP, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: I just object on hearsay grounds, your
Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. Can you repeat again. Sorry.
Q. In April of 2020 is when you first heard of GTV, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Guo announced it in a broadcast, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. He announced he wanted to make or setup a platform to
broadcast, correct?
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A. No, April he said it's going to a private placement for
GTV. That time GTV already existing.
Q. And he said he wanted it to be just like Twitter or
Facebook, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And he told everyone on the broadcast that that was because
YouTube had suspended his abilities, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. And he said, did he not, that he was going to have a
platform that had no censorship, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection, your Honor. We're getting
into offered for its truth.
THE COURT: If you'll step up, please.
(Continued on next page)
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(At the sidebar)
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I'm pretty sure this
transcript is in evidence. They put it in.
THE COURT: So you're objecting on hearsay grounds?
MR. FERGENSON: Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Off a transcript that's in evidence.
MR. FERGENSON: You want to go through the transcript,
that's fine.
MS. SHROFF: We'll be here all day.
MR. FERGENSON: And we certainly don't want that. We
are just concern about expanding the state of mind purpose for
these sorts of questions into, He said this. He said that.
They're testifying on cross. There's some discretion.
MR. KAMARAJU: Your Honor, they introduced the
transcript without requesting any limine instruction.
MR. FERGENSON: That's because we're allowed to do
that.
MR. KAMARAJU: Once you put it in, we're allowed to
reference it.
MR. FINKEL: Which transcript is it?
MR. KAMARAJU: Transcript of April 2020.
MS. SHROFF: You want us to go through the whole
transcript? We're happy to read it out loud, the whole thing.
MR. FERGENSON: We're interested in an efficient
examination. I don't want to keep this sidebar longer.
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There's a line at some point about things Guo said continuing
to come in this way.
MR. KAMARAJU: I'm trying to understand the objection.
We are not allowed to refer to a part of the transcript that
you already put into evidence?
MR. FINKEL: Not unless you use your client's
statements to testify as though he were speaking. If you want
to offer statements for his state of mind. The state of mind
exception is I feel scared. I feel this.
MS. SHROFF: It's in evidence. I can have her read
the entire transcript.
MR. FINKEL: Please don't yell at me.
MS. SHROFF: That's the federal rule of evidence.
THE COURT: Here's my ruling. Mr. Guo needs the
opportunity to assert a defense, and these statements will come
in, in the words of a brilliant jurist, for what they're worth.
(Continued on next page)
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(In open court)
THE COURT: You may continue.
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. You testified, correct, Ms. Li, on direct examination that
Mr. Guo, according to you, talked about Israeli technology to
create this platform, remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. And when you were, as you say, working for Miles Guo, you
helped him find such IT experts, correct?
A. Not this Israel technology. That's all from supporters.
Q. But you helped place advertisements for IT experience
people, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you knew that he was looking to find engineers to build
this platform, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You knew he was interviewing people to build this platform,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you knew he wanted to find the most qualified people to
build this platform, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. You placed the advertisements, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were hoping that good candidates would apply to the
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job description, correct?
A. Yes. The jobs, all the resume, I send it to --
Q. I'm sorry. There's no question.
A. All the resume --
THE COURT: There's no question before you.
Q. You wanted me to know all the resumes you got you sent to
Miles Guo?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. How many resumes did you get?
A. Many.
Q. Many, right, because it was a real job posting, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And he reviewed all those resumes, right?
A. I don't know.
Q. Now, you also testified on direct that you wanted to invest
in GTV, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you wanted to invest, but your investment was part of
the pool, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And your investment was with other people. How many other
people, do you recall?
A. About five.
Q. Five of them, right?
A. Mm hm.
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Q. Was that five plus you, or four plus one that made five
including you?
A. Five plus me.
Q. And you put the investment in your name; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Your name, your personal name, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Even though it was pooled, you decided to put it in your
name?
A. Everyone decide.
Q. Oh, everyone decided to put it in your name?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And you did that because you've testified several
times yesterday because you trusted Miles Guo, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to characterizing what she
said.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. Yes.
Q. When you met with these prosecutors, you told them you were
a cautious investor, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you told them that you thought that this platform would
really work when they took down the CCP, correct?
A. That Miles Guo said so, I believed.
Q. So you believed that the platform would be most successful
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after the CCP was taken down, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And Miles Guo believed that too, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
THE COURT: So she can't testify as to what he was
thinking or believing. Sustained.
Q. Let me show you what is marked in evidence, and maybe I'll
just pull up the transcript rather than the video, is GX26-T.
You remember this document, ma'am?
A. Yes.
Q. And not this translation, but you and your translator
volunteers translated the video underlying this exhibit,
correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Well, let's see at page two where it says, Please carefully
read. You see that language?
A. Yes.
Q. And what does it say, ma'am?
A. Please carefully read through all the documents to be
signed for investment.
Q. That's what Miles Guo said in the broadcast, correct?
A. No, in the private video.
Q. In the private video?
A. Yes.
Q. But you did everything Miles Guo ever asked you to do,
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correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And he asked you to please carefully read through all the
documents, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You can take that down. Now let's look at Government
Exhibit K5. You recognize this document, Ms. Li?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: May I have the jury see it, please.
Q. If we could see the Use of Proceed Chart.
You were shown this particular page by Mr. Fergenson
here, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were asked questions, were you not, if this chart
indicated that GTV money would go into a hedge fund, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you said it did not, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You received this document, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You never read it, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So no matter what it said --
A. At that time I didn't, yeah.
Q. You never read it at that time, correct?
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A. Yeah.
Q. You invested without reading it, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And that's because Miles Guo said so, right?
THE COURT: Are you asking whether Miles Guo said that
she should invest without reading it?
MS. SHROFF: I take that back, your Honor. I withdraw
the question.
Q. You never read this document when you invested, right?
A. Yes.
Q. So if this document had said hundred percent of this money
is going to go to the hedge fund, you would not know, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Because you never read it?
A. Yes.
Q. Let's show you Government Exhibit 165 -- 65 I think.
Sorry. 65. You testified about this document, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Is it your testimony, ma'am, that you never read this
document either?
A. Before I sign I didn't.
Q. I can't hear you.
A. Before sign, I didn't.
Q. Before signing it, you didn't read it?
A. Yeah.
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Q. Let's just look at the top. This page that's before you.
A. Yeah.
Q. You see some of it is in red?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know what that is?
A. That's some update.
Q. So it's a track change in this document, right?
A. Sorry.
Q. It shows you the changes, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And if I could go to the next page. You see on the top
there is again a thing over there?
A. Yeah.
Q. What does that mean to you?
A. There's some changes.
Q. So when you're looking at this document because there are
changes there, you know it's a draft, correct?
A. It's not draft.
Q. It's not a draft?
A. No.
Q. So these changes that are highlighted in track does not
tell you it's a draft?
A. No. This is the version I signed.
Q. I didn't ask you if you signed it. It's possible to sign a
draft version, right?
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A. No.
Q. You said you never looked at anything, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection. That's not what she said.
Q. You never read anything, right?
A. Yes.
Q. So you wouldn't know if it's a draft?
A. But this we been told to sign, to sign it.
Q. I'm not following. Somebody told you to sign a draft?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
A. I don't know if it's draft or not, but to me it's a final
because they ask me to sign it?
Q. Who's they?
A. The Alliance.
Q. The Alliance asked you to sign it?
A. Yes.
Q. How many people are in the Alliance?
A. I don't know.
Q. So how many people called you to tell you to sign this?
A. There's a customer service team for this new GTV platform.
Q. But the customer service team is there to shoot down
customer related problems, right?
A. No, they send contract to us, email to us.
Q. Right. They sent you an email, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Just like Netflix sends you an email. You can open it or
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disregard it, right?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
A. No.
THE COURT: Overruled.
Q. No? If they send you an email, you have to open it?
A. Yeah, because we been told that's the new GTV contract. We
need to sign.
Q. But there is no email that says you need to sign, correct?
Ms. Li, let me try it this way. You downloaded your
emails and gave them to the prosecutor, some of them, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You gave them many, many documents, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you never gave them any document from the Alliance
telling you that you must sign this document, correct?
Let's go to the bottom of the document shall we. Did
they tell you that you must sign this electronically or that
you must sign it by printing it out and hand signing it?
A. Both, you need signature and print your name.
Q. That's not my question.
A. So please repeat your question.
Q. You said you had to sign it, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. The Alliance told you, you must sign it, correct?
A. Yes.
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Q. There's no email from the Alliance saying you must sign it,
correct?
A. In Miles Guo broadcast he said there's new GTV to replace
the old GTV, so everyone need to sign if you invest the old
GTV.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, that's non-responsive and
move to strike.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may continue.
Q. So now it's no longer the Alliance. It's Miles Guo's
broadcast?
A. Alliance listen to Miles Guo's direction.
Q. But before you told me that it was the Alliance who told
you, you must sign?
A. Yes.
Q. So who from the Alliance told you that?
MR. FERGENSON: We've been over this, your Honor.
MS. SHROFF: I'll move on.
Q. Can I go back to the top of the document. This is the
document where you testified on direct, correct, that Mr. He
was identified as a director, correct?
A. Who? Sorry.
MR. FERGENSON: Misstating the testimony, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Was Mr. He identified as a director in this document?
A. Sorry, who?
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Q. He.
A. He.?
Q. H-O-A-R-A-N. Was he identified as a director in this
document?
A. Not in this document.
Q. Right. So let me show you what is also in evidence as
GXVI-34 and 35. Let's put them up side-by-side if we can for
the jury.
Ms. Li, you testified about both these documents in
your direct testimony with Mr. Fergenson, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Before you testified about these two documents, you and
Mr. Fergenson reviewed them with each other, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. When he was preparing you for testimony, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And the document on the left, right, that says 34 at the
bottom, you see that is the email to which document 135 was
attached, correct?
A. Which one?
Q. I cannot hear you.
A. Which part? Which part are you talking about?
Q. Which part am I talking about? On the left is the email
that you received, right?
A. Yes.
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Q. And in that email chain the document on the right was
attached, correct, it was an attachment to the email, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you received that email, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And we know that because the email address shows L-A-N,
M-U, which is the beginning of your online name Mulan, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And this document is from a lawyer, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you can tell that because at the bottom it says it is
from a lawyer, right?
A. Yes.
Q. So if we can just scroll down and make sure that -- you got
this email from a lawyer, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And the document that was attached is to your right,
correct?
So if we could just take a look at the attachment that
you received is on your right, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you received it cause you opened this email, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And the document that you looked at, right, which is 35 in
evidence, right --
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A. Yes.
Q. -- is the resolution for FMV identifying Haoran as the sole
director, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So let's see. You got the email. You opened the
attachment, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then let's scroll down on the right-hand side, all the
way down, just the whole document on 35. See, it says right
there right, who's the sole director, Haoran He, Correct?
A. Haoran.
Q. It's there, right?
A. Yes.
Q. What's his title?
A. Sole director.
Q. And you got the attachment, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, are you saying that you never looked at this
attachment either because Miles Guo told you not to or did you
look at this attachment?
A. I look at it because this lawyer ask me to sign.
Q. So you read it, right?
A. Yes.
Q. When you read it, you knew who the sole director was,
right?
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A. Yes.
Q. Who's he the sole director of? FMV, right?
A. Yes.
Q. This document is sent to you in September of 2022,
September 10, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And that is seven months after the FMV confidential
offering memo the government showed you, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You may take that down. Thank you. Could I have
Government Exhibit 135, please.
MR. FERGENSON: Is this VI-135? I'm not sure what
135.
Q. You see this document, ma'am?
A. Yes.
Q. And you see the section where it says, Is hereby resolved
that?
A. Yes.
Q. Could we just highlight it for her. This document resolved
one person being removed as the company's authorized
representative, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then another person is substituted in, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Who is that? Tian Hao, who is that?
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A. Hao Tian is one of Miles Guo's supporter.
Q. Is it a he or she?
A. She.
Q. Where does she work, do you know?
A. In New York.
Q. Did you work with her, ma'am?
A. No.
Q. Did you interact with her at all?
A. Yes.
Q. And you and she didn't get along either, correct?
A. No, we get along.
Q. You got along with her? Let me show what is marked as
6051.
A. Yes.
Q. Who is that?
A. Hao Tian.
Q. And your testimony is you got along with her, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And she was put in as the representative, correct?
A. Sorry.
Q. The document that I just showed you noticed her as the
representative, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you read that document?
A. I just try to find where I sign, where is my name I could
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sign.
Q. Your name wasn't there, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you didn't sign that document, right?
A. Yes.
Q. But you read it, right?
A. Yes.
Q. We can take that down. Let me move forward and talk to you
about G Fashion, okay?
A. Okay.
Q. G Fashion has a current website in 2024, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you've checked it, right, in 2024?
A. Yes.
Q. You still check the G Fashion website, right?
A. Now I don't.
Q. So sometime in 2024 you checked, but now you don't?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you knew that G Fashion at one point had an office in
Los Angeles, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And from Los Angeles they moved to New York, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then from New York it moved to Milan, Italy, correct?
A. Yes.
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Q. And G Fashion is now run by Lei Ann Li who you testified
before, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And it is still a functioning company now, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. You don't know?
A. I don't know.
Q. When was the last time you looked at their website?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
A. I don't know.
Q. Let me talk to you about NFSC okay?
A. Yes.
Q. You recall testifying on direct, did you not, that Mr. Guo
announced the NFSC, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And there were other people who were part of the
announcement, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you watched it, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You were very excited about it, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Because according to you back then you believed in Miles
Guo, correct?
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A. Yes.
Q. And you no longer do, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. And the announcement was made. Mr. Bannon was there,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. There was some gentleman named Dai Hong who was part of
announcement, correct? Remember the socker player from China?
A. I don't know who you talking about.
I do apologize. Apparently I bungled his name. Let
me show you what is Defense Exhibit 6512. You see that
photograph?
A. Yes.
Q. Who is that?
A. Haidong.
Q. And who is he?
A. He's one of Miles Guo supporter and also use to be the
chairman of Rule of Law Foundation.
Q. He was also a famous socker player for China, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Went to the olympics for China, correct?
A. I don't know.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I move that into evidence,
please.
THE COURT: No objection?
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MR. FERGENSON: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 6512 received in evidence)
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. He was apart of the announcement as well, right?
A. No, he just read the statement.
Q. Could I have it published to the jury, please.
He read a statement in support of NFSC, correct?
A. Sorry.
Q. He made a statement on June 4 in support of the NFSC,
correct?
A. Not that he made. He just read out the statement.
Q. Tell me what is the difference?
A. It's not he produce this statement. He just read it.
Q. How do you know he didn't produce it?
A. Because I know we prepared, our group member prepared.
Q. Your movement, your movement prepared his statement?
A. Yeah. So other supporter write up this statement, and we
prepare and send it to him copy. On that day June 4th, he read
out.
Q. Right. And he made his changes, and then he read out the
statement?
A. No changes.
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to form.
THE COURT: Overruled.
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Q. And he now lives where, in Spain, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And he's still a Miles Guo supporter, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And he spoke in support of the NFSC, correct?
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. SHROFF: I'll move on, your Honor. You can take
it down. Thank you.
Q. Now, the NFSC, Ms. Li, was the concept for a new type of
government in China; is that fair to say?
A. Please say it again.
Q. The NFSC was a concept for a new type of government in
China, correct?
A. At that time I think it is. At that time I think it is.
Q. So according to you today the New Federal State of China is
not a concept anymore, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. It's not a concept?
A. It's a scam.
Q. It's a scam according to you, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. So if anyone believes that there could be a New Federal
State of China is being scammed, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
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Q. The New Federal State of China as a concept promoted
democracy in China, correct, that was the goal, right?
A. We thought.
Q. No. You thought. You can't speak for other people's
thinking, correct?
A. I thought at that time.
Q. You thought. Right. You don't know what any of these
people here are thinking, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Excuse me, your Honor. Can she answer
the question.
THE COURT: Counsel, we're directing the questions
toward her, not toward the gallery.
Q. I'm asking her. You don't know what anybody else thinks
about the New Federal State of China, only what you think,
correct?
A. All his supporters think the same, think this way.
Q. What way? Your way or his way?
A. What Miles Guo said about New Federal State of China.
Q. Right. But you can only testify to what you are thinking?
A. At that time I believed him.
Q. Ma'am, you've said that many, many times.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, objection to the
commentary.
THE COURT: Don't testify.
Q. Ms. Li, do you know what everybody else thinks of the New
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Federal State of China?
MR. FERGENSON: Can we move on, your Honor.
THE COURT: Everybody else. Who are you referring to?
Q. Ms. Li, you can only speak to your opinion of the New
Federal State of China and not the opinion of other people,
correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection. We've covered this. Asked
and answered.
THE COURT: Asked and answered. Sustained.
Q. You joined a farm, correct?
A. I think miles Guo picked up as a farm leader.
Q. I really cannot hear you, ma'am.
A. Miles Guo pick me up to be a farm leader.
Q. Right. But before he picked you up to be a farm leader,
you were part of a farm, correct?
A. No.
Q. You were not part of the translator group farm?
A. That's not a farm.
Q. It's just a group?
A. Yes.
Q. So Miles Guo told you to go be a farm leader even if you
were not part of the farm. That's your testimony?
A. Yeah.
Q. And which farm was that?
A. Australian farm.
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Q. Which Australia farm, the Himalaya Australia farm?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you joined that farm, correct, 2020, you recall?
A. Yeah.
Q. And that farm is based in Sydney; is that right?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you left that farm, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You left that farm to form your own farm, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You wanted to form your own farm, right?
A. Sorry.
Q. You wanted to form your own farm, correct?
A. No, miles Guo ask me.
Q. Miles Guo asked you to go open up a whole new farm in
Sydney, Australia?
A. Yes.
Q. And you did exactly what Miles Guo said. You opened up a
farm, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And that farm was called the Athena farm, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And according to you, I'm sure it was Miles Guo who told
you to call it the Athena farm, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
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THE COURT: Sustained. Just ask her questions.
Q. Who picked the name?
A. I picked the name and approved by Miles Guo.
Q. So you picked the name. He approved it, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And according to you, am I correct, that if he had not
liked the name, you would have changed the name, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And this was in February of 2021, right?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You don't remember when you formed your own farm?
A. In 2021.
Q. A follower could join your farm, correct, if he wanted?
A. Yes.
Q. They could leave your farm if they wanted, right?
A. Yes.
Q. They could go from your farm to a different farm, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. People were allowed to move around, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You didn't stop them, right?
A. Stop what?
Q. You didn't stop followers from leaving your farm, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Yes you stopped them or you allowed them to?
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A. I don't stop them.
Q. You did not stop them, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. Now, you testified about the translator group. You were
supervising about a hundred people at one point, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And of these hundred people, when they wanted to leave you
or your group, they could also leave; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you didn't stop them either, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Because they were all volunteers?
A. Yes.
Q. And you testified at some point yesterday about something
called the black list, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you testified that you were on a black list if you
criticized Miles Guo, right?
A. Sorry.
Q. You testified on direct that if you dear to criticize Miles
Guo, you would be put on a black list, correct?
A. Miles Guo will tell us who go to the black list.
Q. Miles Guo authorized who was put on the black list?
A. Yes.
Q. And he circulated this black list to you, right? How many
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people were on this black list?
A. I don't know.
Q. Ten people, 30 people, hundred people?
A. More than ten.
Q. Less than hundred?
A. I don't remember.
Q. There was no black list that was ever circulated, correct?
A. It's on the Gettr.
Q. It's on Gettr posted, right?
A. Yes.
Q. But that's not a black list, that's the name you are using,
right?
A. No, that's black list account.
Q. It's a black list account?
A. Yeah, everyone can see it. It's public.
Q. That account, anyone can put in a name, correct?
Anyone can put a name onto that black list, correct?
A. No.
Q. No?
A. Only approved by Miles Guo.
Q. I didn't ask you if it was approved by Miles Guo, ma'am. I
asked you if anyone could put in a name on that list?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to the commentary.
THE COURT: Are you asking whether anyone could add a
name to the list?
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MS. SHROFF: Yes.
THE COURT: You can answer that question.
A. No, not anyone.
Q. Not anyone?
A. Yeah.
Q. Your testimony is only Miles Guo runs that Gettr account to
add the name?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled.
A. Can you say it again.
Q. Your testimony is that only Miles Guo can add a name onto
the black list on the Gettr account; is that your testimony?
A. Approved by Miles Guo.
Q. Ma'am, you understand the difference between doing
something and someone approving something, two different
things, right?
A. Alliance will add.
Q. My question is, other people were allowed to and did put in
names on any list on Gettr, correct?
A. Alliance has people in charge. There's the people in
charge --
Q. Right.
A. -- this black list.
Q. And it's not just Miles Guo, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: She can't finish her answer, your
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Honor.
MS. SHROFF: I can't hear her, frankly. I don't know
when she's finished.
THE COURT: If you'll speak up, please.
A. People in alliance who in charge of black list will post on
this Gettr account.
Q. Gettr is like Twitter, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. People would post, correct, just like on Twitter, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And people would respond, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You did not get any actual list of a black list from Miles
Guo, correct?
In your Whatsapp messages group, Miles Guo never sent
you a list and said, this is my black list set of people,
correct?
A. He would say --
Q. Listen to the question.
A. He would say put this person into that black list.
Q. My question to you was -- and let me try again -- Mr. Guo
never sent you a list saying these are the names on my black
list, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: She's answered the question, your
Honor.
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THE COURT: You may answer.
A. Please say it again.
Q. All right. Let's try it again. He sent you many documents
on the Whatsapp group, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. He sent you document to translate, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Documents to read, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. He never sent you a document called the black list,
correct?
A. He sent a name of this black list.
Q. Just one name?
A. Not just one. Anyone he think should go to black list, he
sent their name.
Q. Okay. So on a given day he would say this person should be
on a black list because he criticized the Alliance; is that
what you're saying?
A. Yeah.
Q. But he never sent you a list, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. No, right?
A. No.
Q. Okay. That's all I was asking. You also testified on
direct about protests, correct?
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A. Yes.
Q. And you testified that you did not personally participate
in any protest yourself, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You never went, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You never went because you never wanted anybody to know
your face, correct?
Yes or no?
A. No.
(Continued on next page)
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BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. The protests that you were asked about yesterday, they
occurred in the United States, correct?
A. Sorry? Which protest you refer to?
Q. The protests you testified about, ma'am, just yesterday.
Do you remember that?
A. There's many we mentioned.
Q. There were many protests mentioned yesterday?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. Let's start with the protest they showed you the
photo about, okay? I will pull up the photo for you.
MS. SHROFF: Can we show her the exhibit, please.
I'll start anyway.
Q. You talked about two protests yesterday, correct? You
remember that, or no?
A. No, more than two. Many.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. Many, not——more than two.
Q. You said there were many protests, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And then you talked specifically about two of them. Do you
recall that?
A. Which one?
Q. You discussed in your direct testimony yesterday a protest
where people were smashing or punching each other in the face,
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correct? You remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember, you said somebody was punched in the eye,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then you testified on direct that Miles Guo said, "Good
job," correct?
A. Yes.
Q. About the punch, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And you were not at these protests, correct, because
you were in Australia, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were there along with your husband and daughter,
correct?
A. No. We were watching the broadcast.
Q. Okay. But you were watching the broadcast of that protest,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And you followed that broadcast, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And you watched the protest as it was happening
live, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Because you were part of the protest at that time, correct?
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A. I'm not part of that protest.
Q. But you were watching it, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. And by watching it, you're supporting it, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So you were part of the protest? Is it fair to say, ma'am,
if you don't support something, you don't watch it?
A. I watch it because it's Alliance broadcast.
Q. But the Alliance is not watching what you're doing in your
home in Australia, right?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to relevance.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Nobody's forcing you to watch the broadcast, right? You're
in your home in Australia?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to form.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Where were you watching the broadcast from?
A. From Australia.
Q. Where in Australia?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to the line of questioning
about where she lives, your Honor.
THE COURT: We don't need the specifics about that.
Q. Nobody's asking for an address, ma'am, just where.
A. In Australia.
MR. FERGENSON: Why is it relevant where in Australia,
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
your Honor?
THE COURT: Were you in your home?
THE WITNESS: I don't remember.
Q. Okay. But you remember watching the protest, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you watched the violence in the protest, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you continued to watch more protests even after seeing
the violence, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So you kept following the protests even if they were
violent, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And those protests occurred in the United States,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And as a result of those protests, you remember that
the Rule of Law Foundation took certain steps, correct? Let me
see——do you remember that or no?
A. Can you say it again? Rule of Law what?
Q. Took certain steps, correct? They did certain things to
make sure that that didn't happen again, right? Do you
remember that?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Okay. Well, let me show you something that might refresh
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
your recollection.
MS. SHROFF: May I approach, your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
MS. SHROFF: Can you just pull it up for her,
actually. It's DX 60511.
Q. Would you take a look at the document for me, please.
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: And if I could just have just——the jury
doesn't have it, right? Okay.
Q. And if you could just look at the top, fourth and fifth
line. It's from the words, "If you."
A. Sorry. I can't hear. Which line?
Q. They're going to highlight it for you, but it says, "If
you." It's the second line of the second paragraph at the end,
on the right side.
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Now do you recognize this document, the logo on the
top of the document?
A. I don't remember.
Q. I didn't ask you if you remembered. I asked you if you
recognized. Do you recognize this document, the logo on the
top?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Okay. And if you could just show her the
bottom of the document.
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Okay. And right up there before that.
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Do you see that signature block?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recognize this document?
A. I don't remember.
Q. I know you don't remember. My question is: Do you
recognize it?
A. I don't recognize.
Q. Okay. And does this document help refresh your
recollection that the Rule of Law put out a memo that said, "If
you demonstrate——"
MR. FERGENSON: She can't read from a document not in
evidence, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Does this refresh your recollection that the Rule of Law
did something about the violence at the pro——
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
MS. SHROFF: That was——
THE COURT: I'll allow the question.
Q. Does this document, the paragraph that is before you,
refresh your recollection that the Rule of Law Foundation took
steps to ensure that there was no more violence at protests?
Does that refresh your recollection?
A. Yes.
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Okay. So there was violence and then the Rule of Law said,
you cannot do that anymore, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And according to you, Miles Guo runs the Rule of Law
Foundation, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, I think perhaps we can
take the document down. She maybe thinks she's being asked
about the document.
THE COURT: Are you finished with the document?
MS. SHROFF: I'm happy to have it taken down.
Q. According to you, Miles Guo ran Rule of Law, right?
A. He told us what to do, some issues in Rule of Law.
Q. Okay. So he told you to make sure and stop the violence at
the protest, correct?
A. I don't know what running means.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. I don't——I'm not sure, running the Rule of Law. What do
you mean running it?
Q. You said he was in charge of the Rule of Law Foundation,
right?
A. I didn't say that.
Q. You said he made you director, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You said everybody listens to only Miles Guo, correct?
A. Yes.
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. And people only do what Miles Guo tells them to do,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So when Miles Guo said stop the violence, everybody stopped
the violence, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
Q. Yes or no?
A. This——this not Miles Guo said.
Q. So this time it's not Miles Guo speaking.
A. This document said.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. Document said.
Q. But the document is from Rule of Law Foundation, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And he is able to do anything he wants under Rule of Law
Foundation, according to your testimony yesterday.
A. But I don't know about this document.
Q. Okay. We'll move on.
Let me direct your attention to the protest from the
SEC that you testified to yesterday, okay? Remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. That was also because of Miles Guo, according to you,
correct?
A. Yes.
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Okay.
A. Yes.
Q. And you believed, you said at that time, that the SEC was
infiltrated by the CCP, correct?
A. Yeah, that's Miles Guo said.
Q. Right. And you only believed that because Miles Guo said
that, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And did you have an understanding whether Miles Guo
believed that the SEC had been infiltrated by the CCP?
A. I'm sorry. Please say it again?
Q. Did you have an understanding that Miles Guo himself
believed that the SEC had been infiltrated by the CCP, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection. It sounds like she's
testifying.
THE COURT: Are you asking whether she believed that
Mr. Guo believed that the CCP had infiltrated the SEC?
MS. SHROFF: I'm asking her understanding, yes, your
Honor, exactly.
THE COURT: You can answer.
A. I believe.
Q. Okay. And he had broadcasted that he had in fact been
targeted, correct?
A. About——I'm not sure what——what's the issue you're talking
about.
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. He broadcasted that he was targeted by Broidy, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. He broadcasted that he had been targeted by George
Higginbotham, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And he broadcasted that he had been targeted by the United
States government, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And that that was only because people like Broidy and
Higginbotham were working for the CCP and trying to get him
hurt through the United States, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. But you watched the broadcast where he said that, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you knew that George Higginbotham had been convicted of
doing such things, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. And you——you didn't know?
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay. Did you know that he was convicted of acting as an
agent of China?
A. That's Miles Guo said.
Q. Okay. And Miles Guo said that Higginbotham had tried to
get Trump to send him back to China, correct?
A. Yes.
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. And he said that, you heard it, and you believed it,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know who George Higginbotham is?
A. I don't know.
Q. Do you know who Broidy is?
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay. Now you've talked many times about this concept
called the Alliance, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And the Alliance had meetings, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And where were these meetings?
A. Where?
Q. Yeah.
A. Online.
Q. Online. What format did they use?
I'll rephrase that. That might be a difficult
question for you.
How were the meetings conducted, on WebEx, Zoom, which
one?
A. WebEx.
Q. On WebEx, correct? And you participated in them from
Australia, correct?
A. Yes.
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. And there was a concern that those meetings could be
hacked, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Okay. And when you participated in those meetings, did you
ever show your face or did you use an avatar of Mulan, like
from the movie?
A. Yes, not show the face.
Q. So you took the movie photo of Mulan, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. And when everybody was participating in that WebEx, your
square was the avatar of Mulan, correct?
A. Everyone is like that.
Q. No. Not Mr. Guo, right? Everyone——
A. Except Miles Guo.
Q. How about Long Island David?
A. Sometimes.
Q. Sometimes, right? Not all the time, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. There were people who showed their face, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. Sara Wei showed her face, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So it's not true that everybody used an avatar,
correct?
I'll move on.
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
The Himalaya Alliance had meetings, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. All the leaders came to the meetings, if they could,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. These meetings, they had conversations about what to do
next as part of the Alliance, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And people voted on those issues, right?
A. No.
Q. There was no vote?
A. No.
Q. So if five people wanted to do something and six people
didn't want to do it, what would happen?
A. Miles Guo decide.
Q. But Miles Guo wasn't at all the meetings.
A. Final decision, Miles Guo decide.
Q. So——
A. We would report to Miles Guo.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. We would report to Miles Guo.
Q. You would report to Miles Guo even if it was a unanimous
agreement that everybody should do something; that's your
testimony?
A. Sorry? Can you say it again?
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. If everybody agreed to do something, even if everybody
agreed, you would still go to Miles Guo; is that your
testimony?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay.
A. Approved by final decision, approved by Miles Guo.
Q. Okay. I understand approved by Miles Guo. You keep saying
that. My question to you was: Was there a decision-making
process within the Alliance?
A. No.
Q. Okay. So there was no decision-making process, Miles Guo
decided everything, but the Alliance leaders would have long
meetings to do nothing but give the information to Miles Guo?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to form. She's testifying.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. All the farm leaders went to these meetings, right?
A. Yes.
Q. During the meeting the farm loan program was discussed,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. They talked about what the program consisted of, correct?
A. Sorry?
Q. They talked about——the farm leaders discussed the program,
correct?
A. Yeah.
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. How many times did the farm leaders discuss the farm loans
program?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Five times?
A. I don't remember.
Q. And Miles Guo wasn't at all of those meetings, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Okay. Do you remember a single meeting when Miles Guo was
present?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And when Miles Guo was present in the meeting——you
tell me if I'm wrong——all the farm leaders talked with each
other and with Mr. Guo, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were part of that group, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Sometimes you wanted him to do something or you wanted the
group to do something and others said no, correct? You wanted
more money for your farm, other people said no, correct?
A. No, never.
Q. No, never? Nobody ever said no to you, right?
A. No, I never ask——
Q. You never asked?
A. To do something, yeah.
THE COURT: You have to let her answer. Go ahead.
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
A. I never asked from me to do something, no, not from me.
Q. As the farm leader, you never asked for anything at all in
the Alliance meetings; that's your testimony?
A. Ask what?
Q. Anything. You had a group that you were responsible for,
your followers, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Each farm leader had people who were following that farm,
correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. The farm leader is the one who speaks for them at these
meetings, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So is it your testimony that you never spoke up for any of
the followers in your farm?
A. No.
Q. No, that's not your testimony?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Okay. Let's move on.
Let's talk about what you testified to yesterday, the
Iron Blood group, okay?
A. Yeah.
Q. And at one point the Iron Blood group was about 20 people,
correct?
A. Yes.
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. And then it grew, correct? Could you keep your voice up
for me, please.
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. That's the only way the jury can hear you.
A. Yes.
Q. Thank you.
And starting in March of 2021, you were in that group,
correct?
A. April 2021.
Q. So you recall it wasn't March but it was April, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. Thank you.
And the Iron Blood group had meetings, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And in the Iron Blood group itself, one person had one
vote; is that right?
A. No.
Q. So did one person have more than one vote or nobody had any
votes?
A. No votes.
Q. No votes.
A. We just do what Miles Guo told us.
Q. You just do what Miles Guo tells you, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And even though Miles Guo was going to do whatever he
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
wanted to do, everybody had these very long meetings, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Object to form.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Did you have long meetings as part of the Iron Blood group?
A. Yes.
Q. People came, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. People talked in the Iron Blood group meetings, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. People raised issues in the meetings, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. People raised issues about personnel issues, right?
A. What issue?
Q. Personnel, personnel. Human resources, personnel.
A. Yes.
Q. In fact, one of the issues that was raised was your
inability to get along with people in the Iron Blood group,
correct?
A. No.
Q. Well, you were thrown out of the Iron Blood group for a
while, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And then they let you back in, right? They gave you a
timeout.
A. Yes.
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Okay. And they gave you a timeout because other people in
the Iron Blood group complained about you, correct?
A. No. That's wrong. Because Miles Guo said something
broadcast, I not agree.
Q. So Miles Guo said something in the broadcast, you didn't
agree?
A. Yeah.
Q. So he threw you out of the Iron Blood group; is that your
testimony?
A. No. I left by myself.
Q. Excuse me?
A. I left by myself.
Q. You resigned from the Iron Blood group. You knew how to
resign from a group that he had complete control over, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. You knew how to walk away, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And in fact, you did walk away, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. So when you wanted to walk away, you could, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Nobody forced you to come back to the Iron Blood group,
right?
A. No.
Q. Okay.
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
A. No, sorry. They——
Q. Okay.
A. They add me back.
Q. They asked you back? You could have said no, right?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, the witness said "add,"
not "asked."
THE COURT: I'm sorry. What did you say? Did you say
they asked?
THE WITNESS: Add me back to that group. They add me.
Miles Guo add me back to that group.
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. And you could have said no, right, just like you said no
the first time when you left? You could have changed your
phone number, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You could have left and not downloaded the WhatsApp
application on your iPhone, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You could have just swiped and deleted WhatsApp from your
phone, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. Now let's talk about these refunds that you
testified about yesterday, right? You remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. You testified about people on the farms wanting refunds,
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
correct? On your farm, one of the people wanted a refund on
G/CLUBS, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you decided, even though Miles Guo said no, to give him
the refund anyway, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you decided it was different because he was your
follower, correct?
A. Not my follower, because he contributed a lot.
Q. According to you, he contributed a lot, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you wanted to make sure he was okay, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you wanted to make sure he was okay even though Miles
Guo was telling you no, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you did it anyway, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And so you're capable of doing things Miles Guo tells you
not to do, correct?
A. It depends.
Q. Depends, right?
Now let's talk about the money you got, okay? You
testified that in July of 2021, the Alliance paid you ten grand
a month, correct?
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes. Not Alliance. The Rule of Law Foundation.
Q. The Rule of Law Foundation paid you ten grand, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And the Rule of Law Foundation paid you ten grand because
you were part of the IBG group, right?
A. Yes.
Q. When you were out of the IBG group, you got five grand,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And beginning in August or September——you tell me, 'cause I
don't know the date——you were paid by the Alliance as well; is
that correct?
A. Which, which time? What time?
Q. September or August of 2022.
A. Yes.
Q. You were paid in H Coin, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. 1,500 H coins a month, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And other farm leaders got less than that, correct?
A. Yeah, farm leader and the Iron Blood group's different,
yeah.
MS. SHROFF: I could not hear her, your Honor. I
apologize.
A. Iron Blood group is 1,000 H Coin, farm leader——
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. I can't——
A. Iron Blood group is 1,000, receiving 1,000 H Coin; and the
other farm leaders received 500 H Coin; and the farm CEO
received from 300 H Coin.
Q. You don't mean Iron Blood group received that H Coin; you
mean if you were a member of Iron Blood group, you received
that H Coin, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So all totaled, because you were a farm leader,
because you were in the Iron Blood group, and because of
whatever else you did, you got a total of 1,500 H coins a
month, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And that is in addition to the ten grand you also got,
correct?
A. No.
Q. You stopped getting the ten grand from the Rule of Law
Foundation?
A. Yes, yes. It's only for one year.
Q. Right. You got it for the whole year, and during that time
you got both, correct?
A. No. Only coin.
Q. For one year, Rule of Law Foundation paid you, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And then H Coin paid you, correct?
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O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And it is your testimony now, because I just want to
make sure it's clear, the two did not overlap, according to
you, is that——
A. No, no overlap.
Q. Okay. So when you were paid the 1,500 H coins, you would
then immediately convert it into the H Dollar, correct?
A. No.
Q. You didn't convert it to the H Dollar?
A. No.
Q. What did you do with the coins?
A. Just keep there, because that time Himalaya Exchange is not
working. You can't redeem the money.
Q. I could not hear you. I'm sorry.
A. Himalaya Exchange that time stop working; you can't redeem
the money from it.
Q. Right. But that was at some point. Before that, you could
redeem it, correct?
A. No. That's after. We got our H Coin already.
Q. Right.
A. The Himalaya Exchange can't redeem the money out.
Q. Right. And then after that, you could redeem it, correct?
A. No.
Q. You could never redeem your H Coin, is that——
A. No.
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1689
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. You have to let me finish, ma'am.
A. Until now, it can't.
Q. Okay. You could not redeem your H Coin, correct?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, we've covered this. Asked
and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Ma'am, my question to you was whether you were able to
convert, not redeem——
MR. FERGENSON: Same objection.
THE COURT: You can use the new word, convert. Go
ahead.
Q. If you could convert your H Coin into HDO without
redeeming, you could do that, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you did that, right?
A. I did some.
Q. You did some, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you decided how much to convert; that was your
decision, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You didn't have to check that one with Miles Guo, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Correct? Yes, right?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. Okay.
A. This Miles Guo ask every farm leader and Iron Blood group
member have to create their job and working full time for
Alliance. That's the reason I have to create my job to work
for the Alliance as Iron Blood group.
MS. SHROFF: I move to strike. There was no question.
But thank you for keeping your voice up.
MR. FERGENSON: It's responsive to the line of
questioning, actually, your Honor.
MS. SHROFF: There was no question pending.
THE COURT: The answer is stricken.
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. There came a point when you took $30,000 out of the
Himalaya Exchange; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And you took that $30,000 and then you put that
$30,000 into your own bank account, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And there was nothing wrong with that because that was
yours to take, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you made that decision without Miles Guo, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Now the H Coin itself was launched in November of
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
2021, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And the prelaunch offering of that coin was at 10 cents a
coin; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And the amount of coins you could get——you correct me if
I'm wrong, okay——depended on the contributions you had made to
the movement, correct?
A. And your investment and donation, everything together.
Q. I hadn't gotten there, ma'am.
So one factor was the work you did for the movement,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. The second factor was how much you had invested, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. The third factor was what type of work and volunteering you
did, correct?
A. Donation.
Q. Okay. There was also donations, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. But somebody who volunteered 30 hours would be
getting less coins than somebody who volunteered a hundred
hours, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay. And you were able to purchase $6,000 worth of H Coin
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
at 10 cents a coin, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And the farms themselves also received H Coin,
correct?
A. No.
Q. They never received any——farm leaders did not receive H
Coin to distribute to their farm people?
A. No.
Q. So there was no distribution to fellow fighters at all;
that's your testimony.
A. That's from Rule of Law Foundation.
Q. Okay.
A. Farm get grant from Rule of Law Foundation.
Q. Right. The farm got the grant, and then they passed it on
to the people within their farm, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. That was up to the discretion of the farm leaders, such as
you, correct?
A. Sorry?
Q. That was up to the discretion of the farm leaders, such as
you, correct?
A. No. We were approved by Rule of Law.
Q. I understand. But you decided how to allocate it, correct?
A. No.
Q. Okay. So Rule of Law decided what each fellow fighter
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
would get; that's your testimony?
A. But in the farm, not I decide. We have the rule in our
farm, not I decide.
Q. But you were the farm leader, right?
A. Not decided by myself. They had to meet certain rules.
Q. Okay. Tell us the rules. Who did you consult with about
these rules?
A. My farm have group leaders. We discussion all the——all the
rules.
Q. Okay. You picked the group leaders, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. Because you were the leader.
A. Yeah.
Q. Right. So you discussed these issues with the people you
picked, correct?
A. Not I picked. Some——some is voluntarily want to be the
group leader.
Q. Right. But you picked which volunteer to pick. If there
were ten volunteers and you could only have five, you chose the
five, right?
A. Not I choose. I accept.
Q. So if everybody in the farm wanted to be your second in
command, you would let——accept everybody.
A. Sorry? Can you say it again?
Q. Sure. You were the farm leader?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. You picked who would be your group assistant, correct? You
could choose.
A. Not I pick.
Q. Okay.
A. If someone waiting to that position, you accept.
Q. Right. But what if ten people wanted one position; who
would choose?
A. Never happened.
Q. Nobody volunteered; never more than one person volunteered
for any position in your group.
A. No.
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled.
A. No.
Q. Okay. You also testified yesterday about G/CLUBS and G
Fashion, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you testified about the G/CLUBS memberships, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you testified that it entitled you to a discount in G
Fashion, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you use that discount?
A. Yes.
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1695
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Did you appreciate G Fashion or you didn't like it?
A. Before, I like it, but now, I don't like it.
Q. Okay. Well, we understand. But did you like it back then?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Did you use it?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you feel that that was a benefit conferred upon
you?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Did there come a time, Ms. Li, when you became aware
that there were logistical issues with the G/CLUBS membership?
A. I don't understand. What do you mean logistic issue?
Q. There were people who complained that they'd applied for
the G/CLUBS and they were still waiting for approval, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. That was mainly because of a problem with Crane, correct?
You testified about Crane also, correct?
A. I don't know the reason.
Q. I cannot hear you.
A. I don't know the reason.
Q. Okay. So there were some things you just didn't know,
correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. Now on direct testimony you also talked about
something called AIAI, correct?
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1696
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. What does AIAI stand for?
A. I don't know. That's Miles Guo said, the new plat——the new
platform's name.
Q. You don't know?
A. I don't know.
Q. All you know is Miles Guo said it, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And you testified on direct that——did you watch a
broadcast about AIAI?
A. Yeah, he said in the broadcast.
Q. No, no. My question to you is: Was there a broadcast——I
take that back.
Could you repeat your answer for me. He said that in
a broadcast; is that what you said?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. Okay. And that broadcast, you translated it?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You don't remember. And do you have a copy of that
broadcast where he talks about AIAI?
A. You mean I have a copy now or what?
Q. Sure. Do you have a copy? Did you send it——
A. No, no.
Q. No, no, not now, but you have a copy, right?
A. I don't remember.
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1697
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Did you give a copy to the prosecutors?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Do you remember ever translating it?
A. Translating which one?
Q. Anything about AIAI.
A. I don't remember.
Q. And you don't even know if there is a video of this AIAI,
right?
A. No, I watched the live broadcast.
Q. You watched a live broadcast, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. But every live broadcast he ever made was saved, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So you have it, right?
A. I don't have right now. I can find it for you.
Q. Did you find it for the prosecutors when you talked to them
about AIAI?
A. I don't remember.
Q. They asked you if you had that broadcast, correct, when you
prepared with them?
A. No.
Q. They did not ask you for a video of AIAI.
A. No.
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
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1698
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. They asked you about all of the other broadcasts, correct?
A. No.
Q. They asked you about at least eight broadcasts because you
testified to them, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Right. So the one broadcast they did not ask you if you
had a video of was AIAI, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Okay. You prepared for this testimony here, right?
A. Yeah. No.
Q. Well, what did you meet with them 13 times for?
A. I tell them the truth, give them everything.
Q. 13 times?
A. Yes. I don't——not sure. I——I don't know.
Q. So you met with them all these times just to make sure you
were telling the truth, nothing else, right?
A. Yeah. Yes.
Q. And you were telling the truth about the things you were
going to talk about today, correct? The same exact things.
A. No, no, no.
Q. No?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Well, what else did you prepare for other than Miles
Guo?
A. Sorry? Can you say it again?
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1699
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. What other things did you prepare for other than testimony
surrounding Miles Guo?
Let me try it this way.
A. I don't prepare anything.
Q. You didn't prepare. I didn't ask you if you prepared a
document, ma'am. That's not my question.
But in any event, you did send the prosecutors a lot
of documents, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You sent them a lot of emails, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You sent them a lot of links to many, many videos, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You emailed Mr. Fergenson over here, correct, this man
right here?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And you sent them many links but not a link of this
AIAI video, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. All right.
A. Too many videos.
Q. Too many videos, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. But you——I'll move on.
By the way, did they show you a video of AIAI?
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1700
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
A. I don't remember.
MS. SHROFF: Okay. Let's pull up, please, GX VI114.
Q. This document, you were shown this document, correct?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: And is it published for the jury?
If we could just show her, please, page 2.
Page 3.
Page 4.
Q. Do you recognize this document, ma'am?
You don't recognize it?
A. I recognize this A15 contract.
Q. You read it, right?
A. Not everything.
Q. But you read something.
A. Just first page.
Q. You only read the first page.
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. How about the last page?
A. No.
Q. Okay. What is Ampleforth Capital?
A. The supporters sent money to this company.
Q. What is that company?
A. I don't know.
Q. You don't know?
A. I don't know.
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1701
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Okay. You collected money from your farm——
A. No. They can direct send there.
Q. They can direct send there, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. You had nothing to do with this, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. The only reason you were able to testify about it is
because you reviewed it with Mr. Fergenson, correct? You can
take that——
A. Can you say it again?
Q. Sure. Mr. Fergenson showed you this document when you two
met in his office, correct?
A. I showed him.
Q. Right. And then you two looked at it together, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then you reviewed it, right?
A. Not page by page.
Q. Page by page, every other page, you reviewed it with him,
right?
A. Just first page.
Q. Just the first page. Even with Mr. Fergenson, you only
looked at the first page.
A. I don't remember.
Q. You don't remember?
A. I don't remember.
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1702
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Do you know if the prosecutor picked or chose which page to
show you?
A. I don't know.
Q. You don't know.
A. No.
MS. SHROFF: And if I could just show her the second
page, please.
Q. You never looked at the second page, right?
A. I don't remember.
MS. SHROFF: Okay. All right. We can take that down.
Q. Now you recall that on direct testimony you were shown
documents showing money sent to Abu Dhabi, correct? Do you
recall that?
You know what, I'll come back to that topic.
Let me show you what is in evidence as GX VI190-T.
That's the transcript of a video.
MS. SHROFF: 190, 1-9-0.
Q. Do you remember testifying about this document?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Okay. And if I could just have the first
top part made bigger.
Q. All right. And on the top left corner, you see how it says
U.S. Attorney's Office?
A. Yes.
Q. That's Mr. Fergenson's office, correct?
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1703
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay. And you don't know if he works for the U.S.
Attorney's Office?
A. I don't know.
Q. Who do you think he is? What is your understanding about
Mr. Fergenson?
A. Prosecutor.
Q. Okay. So you know he's a prosecutor on this case, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And he showed you this document, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And he pointed you to this issue of the incentive
mechanism, correct? You see that language?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And then below that, it explains what the incentive
is, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And it says, "For anyone who bring——" it should say brings,
but, "For anyone who bring new fellow fighters in, there will
be incentive for them." Correct?
A. Yes.
Q. There are awards of 3.5 percent, 5.5, and 7.5 percent.
Correct?
A. Yes.
Q. This is like refer a friend, get a reward, correct?
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1704
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. Many companies do that, correct? If you refer a friend,
you get a discount, right?
A. But this not really happen.
Q. I didn't ask you that question, but if you'd like to
volunteer it, that's okay.
But my question was: This incentive program is no
different than any other incentive program, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. Are you familiar with incentive programs in general?
A. No.
Q. There are no incentive programs in Australia.
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
A. I don't know.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. SHROFF: You can take that down.
Q. Now let me show you what is marked as Government Exhibit
VI101.
Ms. Li, on direct testimony, you were——
MS. SHROFF: It's okay. You can take that down. I'll
come back to it.
Q. Ms. Li, on direct testimony you were asked about a place
called Mahwah, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And you testified to the effect of——
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1705
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
MS. SHROFF: Actually, let me see if I can pull up
that document for you. It's GX 29, VI29.
Q. You recall being shown this document and testifying about
it, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. I haven't shown you the document yet. Hold on.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, apparently we're having some
kind of system problem. I apologize.
The jurors don't have it, your Honor.
THE COURT: It's not on the jurors' screens?
Now is it there?
THE JURORS: No.
THE COURT: All right. So can you move to a different
question.
MS. SHROFF: I'll come back to this.
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. And I'm going to try and ask you some questions without the
document in front of you.
THE JURORS: It's there.
MS. SHROFF: Oh, now it is? Okay.
All right. Here it is.
Q. Could you take a look at this document. You testified
about this particular document, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And it says, "Dear Anron," correct?
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1706
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. And Anron, as you testified, is Aaron Mitchell, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And who's Aaron Mitchell? Could you keep your voice up.
A. Okay. Miles Guo's lawyer.
MS. SHROFF: Okay. Is the document——it's not back on?
It's off again? Okay. I'll do it without.
Your Honor, may I just continue without the document?
THE COURT: You may attempt to do that. Go ahead.
MS. SHROFF: Okay.
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. You remember testifying about this document, right?
MS. SHROFF: Can somebody give her a hard copy.
THE COURT: Is there a question?
MS. SHROFF: Okay.
Q. And Aaron Mitchell was also the lawyer for G/CLUBS,
correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. So you only know that he was the lawyer for Miles Guo but
you don't know if he was the lawyer for G/CLUBS.
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And have you met Aaron Mitchell?
A. No.
Q. Have you been in meetings with Aaron Mitchell?
A. No.
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1707
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Okay. And so how do you know that he is Miles Guo's
lawyer?
A. He called me once.
Q. So he called you once, and from that——
A. And he also gave me translation task.
Q. Okay. He gave you translation tasks that included G/CLUBS,
correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You don't remember.
A. No.
Q. Okay. So let's just stay with this document because you
remember the document, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And the document before you is GX VI29, right?
A. Sorry? What's the number?
Q. It's okay. 29 at the bottom. Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And the document talks about a property, correct?
It says "about the property today," right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And it talks about "where we can host our family to
live there," comma, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. "Or sometimes we may also convert it to host our club
members," correct?
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1708
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And according to you, when Miles Guo is talking in
this document and referring to family, he only means his own
personal family, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Not the big family of the movement that you testified to,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Because you testified on direct that the reason he kept
calling you Sister Mulan is because he wanted you to feel part
of the family, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was a way you said of him controlling you,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. That was your testimony, right?
A. Yes.
Q. But this time when he's saying family, he's excluding you,
in your mind, correct?
A. Yes, that's his own family.
Q. Okay. Right. That's what you believe is his own family
he's talking about, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Even though he says "our family," right?
A. Yes.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. It doesn't say "I can host my family," correct? Do you see
that right there, "where we can host our family"? He doesn't
say "my family," right? "Our family."
A. That's still his family.
Q. That's according to you, right? But the word is "our."
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So let's move to the next line, correct?
And then he says, "I want to reiterate the following
key points about this Offer," right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And then if you——it says, "please contact William,"
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Who is William?
A. William Je.
Q. And what is William Je in charge of?
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay. So let's go to the next page.
He says the house is more than a hundred years,
correct?
And if we could go to the next page, please.
Do you see No. 5?
A. Yeah.
Q. It talks about renovation projects "subject to our budget
approval," correct?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. It doesn't say "my budget approval," right?
I'll move on.
MS. SHROFF: So let's just keep going down.
And——I'm sorry. Too far. Okay.
Q. And you see here, it says a——it talks about getting permits
from the government, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And then he talks about it being important to
coordinate with the government for permits, correct, under
paragraph b, right?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Okay. Let's keep going down.
Q. Now he's complaining about the light fixtures in the old
home, right?
A. Yes.
Q. He said they're too old, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And this has to assume that somebody has done a home
inspection, right, 'cause he's talking particularly about
lamps?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Okay. Then it talks, in d——look at paragraph d.
A. Yes.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Right?
MS. SHROFF: Keep going down.
Keep going down.
And paragraph 6. Hold on. There we go. Okay?
Q. It says, "The last and most serious thing is that he and
the agent must sign to ensure that they must always keep a
legal commitment to this transaction, never disclose any
information to any second or third party," correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. "And keep it absolutely confidential, including the
right to judicial protection that they cannot disclose any
information about this deal even when testifying in court."
Correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you understand what he's talking about over there?
A. I don't understand.
Q. Okay. And then he says, "since this house has a long
history," right?
A. Yes.
Q. He's talking about keeping the relationship intact,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Because there is a commitment to the history of the
building itself, right?
A. Yes.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Okay. And then you keep going down, right? And that's——he
talks about this price and then says, "Thank you very much,"
right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And you——
MS. SHROFF: Is that the end of the document? Thank
you.
Q. And you translated that document for Miles Guo, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you got not a voice message with Miles Guo's voice with
these words, you actually got a document to translate, correct?
A. No. His voice message.
Q. Okay. So let's see the Chinese version of this document,
right?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. Is it your testimony that you created the Chinese
version of this document?
A. Sorry?
MS. SHROFF: Could somebody show it to her.
Thank you, Ms. Loftus. I appreciate it.
I'm sorry. The Mandarin version of it.
Q. Okay. And this is the document created by whom?
A. Me.
Q. So you took what he was saying, according to you, and you
made this document out in Mandarin, correct?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And then from Mandarin, you translated it into
English, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And who did you send the English version to?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. So you sent the English version back to Miles Guo and not
to Aaron Mitchell, even though it's addressed to Aaron
Mitchell.
A. Yes, I sent back to Miles Guo.
Q. And when you sent it back to Miles Guo, you testified that
you didn't know what property he's talking about, right?
A. At that time, yes.
Q. Correct. You don't know what property he's talking about,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And at that time you knew Miles Guo to be looking
for property all over the world, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. You don't know?
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay. So you didn't know if he was looking for property
any place else, correct?
A. No.
Q. Okay. And you did not know if he was looking for a
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1714
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
property——
MR. FERGENSON: Objection. Asked and answered.
THE COURT: We haven't heard the question yet.
MS. SHROFF: It's all right, your Honor.
Q. You testified that as far as you were concerned, you were
part of his inner circle, correct?
A. I don't know. What do you mean, inner circle?
Q. Well, you said that everything Miles Guo told you was
secret, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Anything at all that he told you was secret, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So if he wanted to tell you about this, this home, there
would be no issue, right? He would just share the secret with
you, right, according to you?
A. He wanted me to translate this.
Q. Right. All he wanted you to do was translate it, right?
A. Yes.
Q. He never discussed the document with you, right?
A. No.
Q. He never talked about the property with you, correct?
A. No, no.
Q. He didn't tell you whether or not it was for or not a
secret base, right? He didn't tell you anything?
A. No, right.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
Q. So everything that you testified to yesterday was only
about what is on this document, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And of course you reviewed this document with Mr. Fergenson
in his office, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. How many times?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Did Mr. Fergenson ask you about this phrase where it says
"to host club members"? Did you discuss that phrase with him?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Did you discuss the phrase "Family Fund" with him?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So you remember discussing that with him, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you discuss with him the need for permits on this
place?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Okay. So Mr. Fergenson focused on the Family Fund part of
this document, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may I just have one second.
THE COURT: Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Thank you, your Honor.
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1716
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
I'm sorry, your Honor. We're obliged to Ms. Loftus
for helping us out. May I work with her for just one moment.
101. Sorry. VI.
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. You recall testifying about this email yesterday, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And you are one of the people on this email chain,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And the email chain is from a person named Alex Lipman,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And could you tell us, who is Alex Lipman?
A. Yvette Wang's lawyer.
Q. Okay. And you know he is Yvette Wang's lawyer how? How do
you know that?
A. Brother Island Chang Dao told me.
Q. Who?
A. Brother Island Chang Dao told me.
Q. Okay. And is he also known as Long Island David?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay.
MS. SHROFF: I guess we can't pull up the defense
exhibit, but that's okay. I'll keep going.
Q. And the second person on the email chain, right?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yeah.
Q. It says To, correct? It's just——
MS. SHROFF: If the email addresses could be enlarged
and——no, the top part, please.
Q. Okay. And the email is to Sari B. Placona, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And as far as you know, that's also a lawyer, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And Anthony Sodono, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Also a lawyer, right?
A. I don't know.
Q. Well, let's scroll down, and let's look at the name of the
law firm.
MS. SHROFF: Right here, at the bottom, under Sari B.
Placona, if we could make that larger.
Q. Right? It's at MSBNJ.com. Correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And MSB is McManimon, Scotland & Baumann.com, right?
A. I don't know.
Q. Well, look at it right there. MSB. MSB.
A. I don't know what's that stand for.
Q. Okay. Let's just go back to the email addresses.
So you have Jeremy Temkin, right? That one, it's
clear, right, just from the reading, maglaw, that's law, right,
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1718
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
.com?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. Raymond Moss, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Maglaw.com, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. So from those two addresses, you can conclude it's a law
firm, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, we just object to the
relevance and the Court's prior ruling.
THE COURT: You may answer.
MS. SHROFF: I'll move on.
Q. The next one is PriyaChaudhryLaw.com, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. The next email address is virtlawus.com, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. The next one is weddlelaw.com, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And the final one is also weddlelaw.com, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. So Mr. Lipman, a lawyer, is emailing you and several other
lawyers with a document attached, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: May we have a brief sidebar, your
Honor.
THE COURT: Yes.
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1719
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
(At the sidebar)
MR. FERGENSON: The objection to relevance is that the
defendant has not put forward any advice of counsel defense, as
your Honor knows. He was required to notice it. He's not
putting forward that defense, meaning the presence of attorneys
is not relevant in this case, and that's exactly the argument
they seem to be teeing up with this line of questioning. If we
continue down this road, I think it's appropriate that your
Honor instruct the jury that the defendant has not and indeed
cannot raise any defense on the advice of counsel, make it
clear that presence of counsel, there's no, like, suggestion
that the defendant did what he did because lawyers were around.
That's exactly the, you know——we raised this in pretrial
filings, your Honor.
THE COURT: What's the reason for bringing up these
lawyers?
MR. KAMARAJU: Just that it's not hidden from anyone,
your Honor.
MS. SHROFF: It's not hidden from anyone. If the Wall
Street Journal——
MR. FERGENSON: On the email chain, what does it
matter if they're lawyers?
MS. SHROFF: Before you cut me off, I was going to
say, if the email had been sent to the Wall Street Journal, I
would bring that out also.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
MR. FERGENSON: That makes no sense.
THE COURT: What is the purpose for calling her
attention to the fact that these are lawyers?
MS. SHROFF: Because there's nothing——we're basically
saying that this email was openly sent. Just exactly the way
they called out each document, each line. We're not invoking
an advice of counsel defense. Our client's not even involved
in this email.
MR. FERGENSON: I know they're not, but they're
misleading the jury that there's something proper here because
there's lawyers involved.
MS. SHROFF: But——
MR. FERGENSON: Excuse me, Ms. Shroff. Excuse me,
Ms. Shroff. If they want to ask questions like, you're one of
eight people on this email chain, that's fine, but going
through one by one, oh, that's a lawyer, that's a lawyer,
that's clearly contradictory to the Court's ruling about the
presence of counsel and being allowed to elicit this sort of
thing. The Court should instruct the jury that there is no
advice of counsel defense, and they cannot make an advice of
counsel defense.
MR. KAMARAJU: My understanding from the Court's
ruling is that we were able to point out the existence of
lawyers but we were not allowed to argue that the lawyer did
anything, or highlight Mr. Guo's involvement with lawyers, but
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO2 Ya Li - Cross
I didn't think we were precluded from referencing lawyers.
THE COURT: So I want to go back to my decision, just
to refresh my recollection, and we'll discuss it when we
return. We'll take our break now.
MR. KAMARAJU: Okay, your Honor.
MS. SHROFF: Thank you.
(In open court)
THE COURT: Members of the jury, it's 11:29. I'm
going to break. Remember not to discuss this case amongst
yourselves or with anyone else. Don't permit anyone to discuss
it in your presence. Don't watch, listen to, or read anything
about anything that has to do with this case.
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: Ms. Li, you may step down. You may step
out. Remember not to discuss your testimony.
(Witness not present)
THE COURT: We'll return at noon.
(Luncheon recess)
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1722
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
AFTERNOON SESSION
12:01 p.m.
(Jury not present)
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, the witness is in the box.
THE COURT: Ma'am, if you would step out, please. In
my normal courtroom, the witness is to my right so I'm not use
to looking this way, if you could step out, please.
So I'm going to read into the record the decision that
I made with respect to the issue that we discussed at the
sidebar on May 14th at our final pretrial conference. I stated
I have received a letter from the government dated yesterday
seeking to preclude Mr. Guo from invoking a presence of counsel
defense. Mr. Guo has stated that he does not intend to
formally assert an advice of counsel defense, but reserves the
right to present evidence of testimony regarding his awareness
that legal counsel was involved in certain transactions.
I agree with the government that this evidence may be
irrelevant and risks confusing the jury. If Mr. Guo had
asserted the advice of counsel defense, he would have been
required to disclose his communications with his attorney to
determine if he fully and honestly laid out all the facts, and
if he followed his attorney's advice. United States v. Scully
877 F.3d, 464, 476, Second Circuit 2017.
Having chosen not to assert such a defense, Mr. Guo
cannot now use the presence of attorneys as both a shield and a
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
sword. Accordingly, I will follow the approach utilized by
Judge Katherine Forrest in SEC v. Tourre, 950 F.Supp 2d, 666,
684 to 85, (S.D.N.Y 2013). That is counsel for the defense
"will not be precluded altogether from saying the words
"counsel, lawyer or attorney" but will not be "permitted to
zero in on the presence or involvement of lawyers for the sake
of highlighting their presence or involvement." Id at 685.
The Court will preclude evidence that solely shows
that lawyers attended or set up meetings, which is irrelevant.
And the Court will give a limiting instruction if Mr. Guo
references the presence or involvement of lawyers. And so I
think that this is exactly, Ms. Shroff, what you were doing,
highlighting the presence of attorneys. And that it was
irrelevant, and I am going to give a limiting instruction.
This is what I propose to state to the jury. The fact
that lawyers were present on an email chain does not establish
the legality of any individual's actions. Any comments,
questions?
MR. FERGENSON: May we have one moment.
(Counsel conferred)
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, just, first, I misread the
Court's order, so I apologize, and obviously I just misread the
order because I read it to attempted meetings and set up, but
it's my error. It's my error. I just want to make sure that
was clear. But could the Court please read the language again
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
for me.
THE COURT: The fact that lawyers were present on an
email chain does not establish the legality of any person's
actions.
MS. SHROFF: The defense has no objection.
MR. FERGENSON: Nor do we, your Honor.
THE COURT: So have the jurors brought in, please.
(Continued on next page)
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
THE LAW CLERK: Jury entering.
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Please be seated. And would you have the
witness brought back.
Members of the jury, I want to point something out to
you. The fact that lawyers were present on an email chain does
not establish the legality of any person's actions.
Remember that you're still under oath, Ms. Li. And
you may continue your inquiry.
MS. SHROFF: Thank you, your Honor.
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. May I go back to GXVI-110. Ms. Li, you recall testifying
about this document, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And again, if you could just keep your voice up. That
would be helpful.
This is a document, you would agree, right, between
Club ME limited and HAA, right?
A. I'm not agree.
Q. You don't agree with the title that says loan agreement
between G/Club ME Limited and HAA Group Party Limited?
A. No.
Q. That's not the document before you?
A. It is, but it's not a real loan agreement.
Q. My question was, is that the document before you?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. And you testified about this document on direct, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And sitting here today, Ms. Li, do you have any knowledge
of who Mr. Guo's institutional investors were in Abu Dhabi?
A. William Je.
Q. Who other than William Je that you know were institutional
investors?
A. Hamilton farm.
Q. Okay. That's still William Je, but who else?
A. I don't know.
Q. Is it fair to say that the only information you have is
about William Je, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you have no knowledge whether or not Mr. Guo applied
for a management consulting license to the H Reserve in Abu
Dhabi?
A. Under Miles Guo direction.
Q. What was under Miles Guo's direction?
A. H Reserve and what you said, the license in Abu Dhabi.
Q. So you know he applied for such a license in September 2?
A. He send supporters to apply it.
Q. Could you let me finish my question. Would that be
possible?
A. Yes.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. So my question was, were you aware that Mr. Guo applied for
a management consulting license to H Reserve on September 2 of
2022?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, she answered this
question.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. And that license was granted, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. Do you know if the H Reserve was negotiating with banks and
finance licenses with UAE at the same time?
A. I don't know.
Q. Do you know whether or not in September of 2022, they were
moving over the exchange to the United Arab Emirates, the
H Exchange?
A. I know the move, but I don't know exact date.
Q. You know the move, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. But you don't know whether it was in September of 2022?
A. Yes.
Q. So you don't know if it was September 2 of 2022?
A. I don't know.
Q. If I could show her, please, GXVI-110. I'm sorry. The
second page and then the last page.
You see your signature down there, correct?
A. Yes.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. And you're assigned as the lender, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you testified on direct that you did not read this
document at all, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. The prosecutor ask you questions about this document, and
you just answered them, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And under this document, no one was required to buy any new
cards, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you would agree with me, would you not, that there's
nothing illegal about opening up a company in Abu Dhabi?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection. She can't testify to
legal.
THE COURT: Sustained. She's not here to give
testimony about the law.
Q. Do you think companies exist in Abu Dhabi?
A. Sorry.
Q. Do you think companies exist in Abu Dhabi?
A. Yeah.
Q. And people do business with companies in Abu Dhabi,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And you knew Miles Guo to do business with Abu
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Dhabi, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you knew that over a period of seven years, correct,
cause you worked for him as you said for seven years, right?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, she needs to be able to
answer the question before another one is posed.
THE COURT: That's right. Let her answer the
question.
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay. Now, Mr. Fergenson over here asked you questions,
did he not, about the euros reference in this document,
correct?
Can we show her the reference to euros. You see right
there, the loan amount?
A. Yes.
Q. And he zeroed in on that line, right, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You remember that yesterday you testified to this line?
A. Yes.
Q. It will really help me out if you use the mic then I won't
speak while you're still thinking.
A. Okay.
Q. Thank you. So you testified that you believed that
business was being done with euros because euros unlike dollars
could not be traced, right? That was your testimony?
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1730
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. So, Ms. Li, is it your understanding that the only currency
that can be traced are US dollars?
A. Sorry.
Q. Is it your understanding that the only currency that can be
traced are US dollars?
A. I don't know.
Q. Right. Somebody sends money in euros from one bank to
another, there's still a digital transaction created, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you can follow that transaction, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. So isn't it possible that the reason the currency is a Euro
is because --
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
Q. -- because that was the currency in which business was
being done?
THE COURT: Sustained. This is not the type of
hypothetical question that she should be asked.
Q. You testified on direct, correct, Ms. Li, that you signed
documents, and I use your words here "The alliance ask me to
sign, so I sign with them," correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you --
A. Alliance also ask me to send Euro, but I couldn't send. I
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
still send US dollar, but the contract is Euro. It's not match
what the dollar I send. I send US dollar.
Q. Ms. Li, I ask you no such question.
MS. SHROFF: I move to strike, your Honor.
THE COURT: The answer is stricken.
Q. Did you or did you not say on direct testimony that when
the Alliance ask me to sign, so I have to sign with them.
That's what you said, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. And then you stated, did you not, that you signed a loan
agreement because Lao Ban Zhang asked you to sign it?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to the slight
mischaracterization. It wasn't a loan agreement.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. No, Wang Kan. Wang Kan ask me to sign this document. Wang
Kan is in charge of Alliance finance.
Q. What was Mr. Zhang's role?
A. Who?
Q. Lao Ban Zhang.?
A. He send the document, ask me to sign off this line,
writeoff this loan.
Q. So he asked you to write-off the loan, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Did you write-off the loan by the way?
A. Yes.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. And did you do that because you wanted to write-off the
loan or because the Alliance --
A. Because Alliance ask me to sign.
Q. So he was the Alliance in your mind, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And he was at one point the head of the New Zealand farm,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And he's actually a good friend of yours, right?
A. No.
Q. He wasn't a good friend of yours when he sent you this
document?
A. No, it's just supporters.
Q. I'm sorry.?
A. We just all supporters.
Q. Well, yes, he was a supporter, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were more friendly with some supporters than
others, right?
A. No.
Q. You were the same friends with all the supporters
everywhere?
A. No.
Q. I'm sorry.
A. No.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. But you testified on direct also that you thought these
supporters were all family, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So you were friendly with him, correct?
A. I friendly with everyone.
Q. Everyone the same amount?
A. Yeah.
Q. No better friend, no worse friend?
A. No.
Q. And he was with you in the Iron Blood Group, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And he's the person to whom you sold one of your companies,
correct?
A. Sorry.
Q. He is the person to whom you sold one of your companies,
correct?
A. I don't know what you talking about.
Q. Did you transfer one of your companies to him?
A. The fund, yes.
Q. Which one?
A. Ashwood fund.
Q. Whose fund was that?
A. Sorry.
Q. Whose fund was Ashwood?
A. It's set up under Miles Guo's direction.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. I didn't ask you that.
MS. SHROFF: So move to strike.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. My question to you was, Ms. Li, whose fund was that?
A. Alliance fund.
Q. It was Alliance's fund. Was there a management fee on that
fund?
A. I don't know.
Q. You got the management fee cause it was your fund, right?
A. No, this Alliance fund.
Q. It's your name on the corporate documents for Ashwood,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. It's your signature, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You're the ultimate beneficial owner, correct?
A. No.
Q. Really?
A. Yes.
Q. Who else's signature is on the certificate of
incorporation?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You don't remember. Is there a name such as the Alliance
on the documents?
A. I don't remember.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. How long did you manage the Ashwood fund?
A. I don't remember.
Q. One year?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Two years?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How much management fee did you get?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Did you get a management fee?
A. I don't remember. I don't get --
Q. There is no question pending, ma'am.
You testified, did you not, Ms. Li, right that Mr. Guo
over there asked you to delete and change phone numbers,
correct?
A. Delete messages and change phone numbers, yes.
Q. So he asked you to delete information from your phone,
correct; that was your testimony?
A. Yes.
Q. And he asked you to change phone numbers, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And he did that with almost everyone, right?
A. Sorry.
Q. And he did that with almost everyone, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. He would put that message in the Whatsapp group, correct?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
A. What message?
Q. That his phone was hacked. Everybody change their number?
A. I don't know.
Q. And he explained to you why his phone was being hacked,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. And what was the explanation he gave you?
A. The CCP hacked his phone.
Q. And he would then change his number, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you sometimes changed your number or you didn't change
your number, right?
A. What do you mean?
Q. When Mr. Guo would tell you to change your number, did you
always change your number?
A. Yeah, I get a new number.
Q. You'd get a new number, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you kept one phone for Mr. Guo and another phone for
everyone else; is that true?
A. No.
Q. So you just changed the phone number that you had all the
time, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you testified that he told you to delete messages and
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
you deleted them, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And then you testified but you kept some direct messages
with Miles Guo, correct?
A. I kept all direct message with Miles Guo.
Q. So even though he asked you, according to you, to delete
everything, you kept the messages directly with Miles Guo,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You saved all of them, but you deleted everything else,
that's your testimony, right?
A. No, I didn't delete everything else, just group messages.
Q. Group messages. So what did you do if you was in the
group? Did you keep that message or did you delete it?
A. I keep the direct messages.
Q. Do you remember testifying yesterday where you said I
delete most of them. I keep some direct messages with Miles
Guo?
A. Yes.
Q. So that was yesterday. Today you're saying you kept all of
his direct messages, so which one is correct?
A. Both. Yesterday I mean the most means including the group
messages, but I keep his direct messages. That's what I mean.
Q. But you said, and I quote "And I keep some direct message
with Miles Guo."
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
MR. FERGENSON: Objection, asked and answered.
THE COURT: Asked and answered. Sustained.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, just for the record, that's
from trial testimony 1502.
THE COURT: I did not hear you.
MS. SHROFF: Just for the record that was yesterday's
trial testimony 1502.
Q. Now, you were in a Whatsapp group, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you are familiar with the application Whatsapp, right?
You use the application, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You have to download it from the Apple store and use it,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. You can set up your account, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You can choose your photo, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you can use delete disappearing messages, right?
A. I don't know. I don't use.
Q. You don't use Whatsapp or you don't use the function?
A. I don't use that function.
Q. But the function is there, right?
A. Yeah.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Now, you testified about Mr. Guo's arrest, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then you testified about reading the indictment, right?
A. Sorry.
Q. You testified, did you not, that you read the indictment
against Mr. Guo, right?
A. I read or I don't read? What do you mean?
Q. You tell me if you read it or you didn't read it?
A. When?
Q. The indictment.
A. When I read it?
Q. I'm asking you. Did you read it?
A. What's your question?
Q. Did you read the indictment against Miles Guo?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember what the date of the indictment was?
A. 15th of March.
Q. What year?
A. 2023.
Q. And after the 15th of March 2023, you remained a farm
leader, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You remained in the Iron Blood Group, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You continued working for the Alliance, correct?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. And throughout that time, you never went to any authorities
to alert them to a potential fraud, right?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to form on the throughout
that time.
THE COURT: What time are you referring to?
Q. In March of 2023, you didn't go, right, to any authority
saying there's a fraud?
A. Sorry, which day?
Q. In March of 2023, after the indictment against Mr. Guo, you
did not go to any authority and say, Mr. Guo there is a scam,
correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Right. Not in March, April, May, June, July, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Not in August, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. When was the first time you went to the authorities?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You don't even remember, right?
A. Around August, September, October.
Q. August or September of 2023, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. I'm sorry.
A. Yes.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Between March 15 and August, right, you continued to set up
entities, correct?
A. No.
Q. Really. You didn't set up any entities between that time
from March 15 onward?
A. No.
Q. How about for G Fashion?
A. G Fashion?
Q. Yes.
A. No.
Q. Did you continue to run your fund the Ashwood fund? You
continued to manage it, correct?
A. No, we have manager.
Q. You had a manager for your fund?
A. Yes.
Q. What's the manager's name?
A. Richard.
Q. And he continued to run the fund for you, right?
A. Yeah, not for me, for the Alliance.
Q. Well, the fund is in your name, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. Where does Richard live by the way?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor --
MS. SHROFF: It shows the relationship.
MR. FERGENSON: -- can we say at a high level where he
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
lives.
MS. SHROFF: It is at a high level.
THE COURT: Generally, yes.
Q. Which country does he live in?
A. Australia.
Q. You have his phone number in your phone?
A. Sorry.
Q. You have his phone number in your phone, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. The Alliance doesn't have his phone number?
A. Alliance of course have. He's one of the members.
Q. But the Alliance in general doesn't have his phone number
as the manager of your fund, right?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to form, and asked and
answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Who got the management fee from the Ashwood fund?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. How about the HAA fund?
A. What do you mean, how about what?
Q. How about the HAA fund?
A. For what?
Q. Were you talking? Go ahead.
A. About HAA fund what?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. I was getting there. So between March 15 of 2023 and
August when you went to the authorities, you continued to
manage the HAA fund, correct?
A. On behalf of Alliance.
Q. You've said that. My question to you was whether you
continued to manage it?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, she can't argue with the
witness. She can ask the questions.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Did you manage the fund?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. You continued to pay expenses, correct -- and I'm still
talking about the period between March 15 and August. You paid
expenses, right?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to form.
THE COURT: In connection with what specifically?
Q. HAA?
A. I don't remember.
Q. How about expenses pertaining to Ashwood?
A. Yes.
Q. You paid the expenses, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. You paid people salaries, correct?
A. No.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. And at the time that you were managing these two entities,
you did not believe them to be fraudulent, correct? I'm still
only talking from the 15th to August.
A. Yes.
Q. And you continued to pay expenses for IT engineers,
correct?
A. No, I stopped.
Q. You stopped paying them even though they was still working,
you stopped paying them?
A. Yes, I stopped early 2023.
Q. Early 2023?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you continued to vote on the Rule of Law Foundation's
board, correct?
A. No.
Q. When did you stop Rule of Law Foundation board?
A. July 2023.
Q. So you continued in March, right, April, May, June, July?
A. But between this time period, no vote.
Q. I didn't ask you if you voted, ma'am. I asked you if you
remained a member of the Rule of Law Foundation's board?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, if she's giving responsive
answers, Ms. Shroff should not be arguing with her.
MS. SHROFF: I'll rephrase the question, your Honor.
I think Mr. Fergenson overstates his point.
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1745
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
THE COURT: Is there a question?
Q. I believe my last question was to her was, she remained on
the board of the Rule of Law Foundation until July of 2023?
THE COURT: You may answer that.
A. Yes.
Q. And you continued to manage investments in H Coin from
March 15 of 2023 until August, correct?
A. What do you mean manage H Coin?
Q. Well, you were managing an investment to buy a bank for the
movement, correct?
A. You mean D2 bank project?
Q. Right.?
A. It stopped.
Q. I understand that. My question was it continued from March
15 until August, correct?
A. No, it finish.
Q. In what year?
A. 2022.
Q. 2022?
A. April 2022.
Q. April of 2022?
A. Yeah, we already send them all the D2 Bank money to
Hamilton farm. Then after that nothing happened.
Q. My question wasn't whether anything happened. My question
was, you did not take any steps to withdraw from any of these
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
transactions, correct?
A. What do you mean withdraw from these transactions?
Q. I'll move on.
You remember giving testimony about HCHK?
A. Yes.
Q. And you read about HCHK in the indictment, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And when you read about HCHK in the indictment, that is
when you got worried, correct?
A. Got what?
Q. Is that when you started to get worried, concerned, scared?
A. Concern, not scared.
Q. You were concerned because you were a director of HCHK,
correct?
A. No, because I thought that's a Rule of Law Foundation is a
charity, but now coming out is a company. That's totally
different.
Q. And you were on as the director, right?
A. Yes, I been mislead by Miles Guo.
Q. I understand. You were misled by Miles Guo.
My question to you was, ma'am, you were worried
because your name was on the document, correct?
A. That's no my name, just company's name.
Q. Which company?
A. HCHKBVI.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. And whose name was associated with HCHK?
A. Yvette Wang.
Q. And not yours?
A. No.
Q. So your name was not there at all?
A. Not on the document, but I know I'm another director.
Q. Now, you testified on direct, Ms. Li, that you were
approached to sign a document in connection with Mr. Guo's
bankruptcy, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were approached you testified by a lawyer for
Ms. Wang, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And what was the lawyer's name by the way?
A. Alex Lipman.
Q. After Mr. Lipman had approached you, you were approached by
another lawyer, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You don't remember. You testified about it yesterday?
A. There were many lawyers, but I remember Alex Lipman send
the email to ask me to sign that document.
Q. And then after that you were approached by another lawyer,
correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And could I have GX-121 pulled up. You remember the other
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
lawyer's name is Yongbing Zhang. Maybe we could show her a
photo.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, may I have just a moment
to talk to defense counsel very briefly.
THE COURT: Yes.
(Counsel conferred)
Q. I've shown you what is DX6053, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Who's that?
A. Yongbing.
Q. Is this the lawyer that also approached you on behalf of
Ms. Wang?
A. Yes.
Q. And he brought you a document that he wanted you to sign,
correct?
A. Not him, it's Alex Lipman send me. He send me the false
affidavit. That's a different document.
Q. That's the document I'm talking about, the false affidavit
according to you, right?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: And, by the way, could I move this into
evidence.
MR. FERGENSON: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
Q. And he asked you to sign this?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
THE COURT: What is the number of the exhibit again?
MS. SHROFF: 60503.
(Defendant's Exhibit 60503 received in evidence)
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. We're no longer talking about the Alex Lipman document
which was sent to you via email, okay?
A. Okay.
Q. We're talking about the document that he brought for you,
correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you testified yesterday, right, that he threatened you
when you refused to sign it, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And I just want to be clear. He did not threaten you with
any violence, correct?
A. Not physically.
Q. He did not threaten you with any physical violence,
correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. He did not threaten to brand you a CCP spy, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. I'm correct, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. He did not threaten to brand you a CCP spy?
A. Yeah.
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1750
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. By "yeah" you mean I'm correct?
A. Yes.
Q. He did not threaten to kick you out of the movement,
correct?
A. Sorry. Can you say it again.
Q. He did not threaten to kick you out of the movement,
correct?
A. But I feel like that.
Q. My question to you was, did he threaten you that you're
going to get kicked out of the movement if you don't sign the
affidavit?
A. Make me feel like that.
Q. That's how you felt. My question is, did he use any words
and threaten you?
A. Yes.
Q. He used words to threaten you and said if you don't sign
this you'll be kicked out of the movement?
A. Make me feel like that.
Q. I didn't ask you if he made you feel like that, ma'am. My
question to was, which you still haven't answered, is whether
or not he used words to threaten you?
A. He used.
Q. Now you're saying he used the words?
A. Yes.
Q. So this man threatened you and said, if you don't sign this
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
affidavit, we're going to throw you out of the movement?
A. The message make me feel like that.
Q. Okay. But the message did not have those words, correct?
A. It's a threatening message.
Q. Tell me what was the message? Tell me what was threatening
about the message?
A. He said as Alliance legal team, this is my full responsible
for this Alliance if this case we lose. We lose $38 million,
I'm fully responsible for that.
Q. Right. But he never threatened to throw you out of the
movement, right?
A. That make me feel like that.
Q. That's what it made you feel like, but he never said those
words to you?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
MS. SHROFF: It's never been answered.
THE COURT: Did you say something?
MR. FERGENSON: I think that was Ms. Shroff.
THE COURT: Sustained. Let's move on.
Q. Can you show her Long Island David's photo, please. Who's
that?
A. Brother Long Island Changdao.
Q. Also known as Brother Long Island David, correct?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: I move this document into evidence,
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
DX6498.
MR. FERGENSON: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 6498 received in evidence)
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. He's part of the movement, right?
A. Yes.
Q. He's the leader of some farm, correct?
A. Use to be Mountain Spices farm leader.
Q. And you interacted with him, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Frequently in fact, right?
A. Yes, because we are in Iron Blood Group.
Q. You interacted with him even outside of Iron Blood Group,
right?
A. No.
Q. No?
A. No.
Q. When was the last time you spoke to Long Island David, this
man?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Was it last month?
A. No.
Q. Was it the month before?
A. No.
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Do you remember if it was the month before?
A. No.
Q. In fact, you don't know if you spoke to him in 2024 because
you don't remember now, correct?
A. I left in November 2023.
Q. My question wasn't when you left.
My question was, ma'am, whether or not you continued
to talk to Long Island David in 2024?
A. No.
Q. Since Mr. Guo's arrest, did you continue to do business
with him?
A. What do you mean business?
Q. Did you continue to interact with him?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you continue to talk about entities with him?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was after Mr. Guo's arrest, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And sitting here today, you don't know if that went into
2024, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
A. Yes.
THE COURT: Asked and answered. Sustained.
Q. Turning back now to your communication with Mr. Zhang
right?
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
A. Who?
Q. Yong, the photo right before. Let's pull him back up.
He's the one who asked you to sign the false
affidavit, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And he told you, according to you, that if you did not sign
it, the alliance would lose $35 million, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you didn't sign that document, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you didn't sign that document because you wanted the
money to go back to the HCHK creditors, correct?
A. No, I didn't sign because it's false.
Q. You didn't sign it because it's false, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And if you had signed it, the money would have gone back,
not to the bankruptcy trustee, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection, calls for a legal
conclusion.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. You read the affidavit, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You believed it was false, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You also believed that he believed it was true, correct?
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to form.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. You wanted the 38 million to go to the bankruptcy trustee,
correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
THE COURT: You can answer.
A. Sorry. Can you repeat.
Q. You wanted the $38 million to go to the bankruptcy trustee,
correct?
A. Not I wanted, but because there's already a TRO there.
Q. So you thought it right for the money to go to the
bankruptcy trustee, right?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
MS. SHROFF: Actually, she hasn't answered it.
THE COURT: You can answer.
A. Can you say it again.
MS. SHROFF: I'm sorry to impose on you, but can you
read her the question.
(Record was read)?
A. Yeah, it's right.
Q. And HAA is one of HCHK's creditors, correct?
A. No.
Q. HAA had loaned money to HCHK, correct?
A. I sent money to HCHK Technologies, but the contract sign
with New Zealand company.
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Ma'am, my question was whether the money had been sent to
HCHK, not who the contract was signed with?
THE COURT: Is there an objection?
MR. FERGENSON: She answered the question, your Honor.
Ms. Shroff can't characterize the evidence.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Did HCHK owe HAA money?
A. No, that's for buy GTV share, not a real loan.
Q. I could not hear her.?
A. That's for buy GTV shares, not for the loan.
Q. For whatever the reason was, HCHK -- the question really
was. You answered a different question, so I just want to make
clear.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may we approach.
THE COURT: You asked the question, and part of her
answer was no, so move on.
Q. The Mountain of Spice fund/farm had loaned money, correct?
A. No. I don't know. It's another farm. I don't know.
Q. You don't know?
A. I don't know.
Q. So as a member of the Iron Blood Group, you do not know
what other monies was sent to HCHK?
A. I don't know.
Q. You do know this much that the farms got their money from
members, correct?
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. And they were US members, correct?
A. Which farm?
Q. The Mountain of Spice farm got money from US members,
correct?
A. Each farm have members all over the world, not only from
US.
Q. And all of those proceeds went into the loans, correct?
A. It's not a loan. It's for buy GTV shares.
Q. Okay. Whatever you decided it is.?
A. Not I decided. Miles Guo said.
THE COURT: The witness has said it was not a loan.
Q. Was there a loan agreement executed?
A. What do you mean executed?
Q. Signed.?
A. Signed only by farm. No one sign back.
Q. But it was still signed, correct, by one entity, correct?
A. By farm.
Q. The farm signed the document, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. As a result of that signature, money left an account,
correct?
A. Sorry.
Q. Money left an account and went into HCHK, correct?
A. You talking about which farm, which transaction?
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Let me try it this way. The trustee, the bankruptcy
trustee was to recover money and return it to creditors, that
was your understanding, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And one of the creditors was HAA, correct?
A. No.
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. The trustee sued HAA in February of 2024, correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. In February of 2024 you controlled HAA, correct?
A. What's the date?
Q. February of 2024. We're in June now.?
A. Yeah.
Q. February, March, April, May, June.?
A. Yeah.
Q. So February of 2024, the trustee sued HAA, correct?
A. I don't know what do you mean by "sue." Which case?
Q. Brought a lawsuit, a civil lawsuit to collect money from
HAA?
A. Yes.
Q. Right. And even though they brought the lawsuit, you never
turned over any money from HAA to the trustee, correct?
A. Sorry. I never what?
MS. SHROFF: I'm sorry to do this, but can you just
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
read her the question back.
(Record was read)
A. No.
Q. Right. And instead, you turned over the -- you transferred
the assets of HAA to someone else, correct, and that was -- let
me just refresh your recollection -- in May of 2024?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So May of 2024, you transferred it over to someone
else, correct, who was that?
A. I don't know. Alliance decide.
Q. I didn't ask you who decided. I just asked you who you
transferred the fund to?
A. I don't know.
Q. You don't know?
A. I just ask them to take over from me. I don't want
involved anymore.
Q. But they hadn't take over from you, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, we've covered it I think.
MS. SHROFF: We have not.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. What's your question? I told everything to Luc. He knows.
Q. Who's Duke?
A. Luc Despins.
Q. I didn't ask you if you done anything like that, so I move
to strike.
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
My question to you, ma'am, was whether or not you
transferred HAA over entirely to someone else?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And that was not Luc Despins, correct, that's
someone else? It was not Luc, right?
A. Yes.
Q. It was not the bankruptcy trustee, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And you told these prosecutors that you had done
that, correct?
A. Done what?
Q. The transfer.?
A. Yeah.
Q. In May of 2024, you told that to Mr. Fergenson, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And that is why he included HAA in your non-prosecution
agreement, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And he included that not in the first draft, but in the
final version because you're the one who pointed it out that it
wasn't in the first version, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection on getting into her
discussions with her counsel, your Honor.
MS. SHROFF: I'm talking about her discussion --
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
A. Can you say it again.
Q. They gave you a draft non-prosecution agreement, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. HAA is not mentioned, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Then they gave you a final version, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. They added in HAA, correct?
You got coverage for HAA, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, you've testified on direct that you resigned from your
position after meeting with the FBI, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And it is also your testimony that after you resigned, the
police showed up, correct, the Chinese police showed up you
said?
A. Yes.
Q. And you testified that they showed up and they said they
were acting on the orders of the Ministry of State Security,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And the Ministry of State Security is the same people that
were hounding Mr. Guo, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. Didn't he tell you that many, many times in the broadcast
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
that you listen to at that time?
A. At that time I don't know is that true or not.
Q. I didn't ask you if it was true or not. I asked you if
Mr. Guo said that?
A. He said before.
Q. So you understand the difference between my asking you
something --
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor --
MS. SHROFF: I withdraw it.
Q. You think, according to your testimony yesterday, that it
was Mr. Guo who sent the MSS to visit your relatives; is that
your testimony?
MR. FERGENSON: That's mischaracterizing the
testimony.
THE COURT: Sustained. That was not her testimony.
Q. Who do you think sent the MSS to your relatives?
A. CCP.
Q. You think CCP sent them?
You think the CCP sent the MSS to your relatives
because you were talking with the FBI to testify against Miles
Guo?
MR. FERGENSON: Again, object to form. She answered
the question and now it's a compound question.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. The MSS visited your family, correct?
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. You believed that it was the CCP who sent them?
A. Yes.
Q. The CCP who is the enemy of Miles Guo?
A. I don't know.
Q. So now you think Miles Guo is a spy for the CCP?
A. What? Sorry.
Q. So now you think Miles Guo is an agent of the CCP?
A. I don't know.
Q. Ms. Li, part of your testimony yesterday is that you
received H Coin from the Alliance, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And that is not the only currency that you received from
farm members, correct?
A. I don't understand. What do you mean?
Q. You received money from the United States and Japan
members, right, who sent their money to HAA, correct?
A. The Japan farm and the US farm, yes.
Q. They sent money, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was in dollars, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Not in H Coin, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you received that money to buy H Coin for members who
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
are otherwise not allowed to purchase it, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And after doing that, you took a fee, correct?
A. I took what?
Q. A fee, a fee, F-E-E, like a charge?
A. No.
Q. Your testimony is that you did not charge a three percent
fee that went to HAA?
A. No, zero.
Q. You did not charge a three percent fee, that's your
testimony?
A. No, Hamilton charge, not me.
Q. No. No.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, she can't argue. She can
ask questions and the witness answered.
THE COURT: Don't testify.
Q. HAA got a fee of three percent, correct?
A. No.
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. The money came to HAA, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Is it your testimony that the entire amount without a fee
was transferred?
A. Yes.
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. And you received --
A. I transfer under Brother Island Changdao's direction.
Q. So it was not under Miles Guo's direction now. It's under
Long Island David's direction?
A. Miles Guo give Island Changdao direction, and Island
Changdao give me direction.
Q. Okay. And none of these questions are questions I asked
you, right? You just volunteered that information now?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Counsel.
Q. You received money from farm members into your Ashwood
fund, correct?
A. Sorry.
Q. You remember Ashwood the fund that you had?
A. Yes.
Q. Right, you remember it?
A. Yes.
Q. It got money, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. In US dollars, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. In other currency, correct?
A. No.
Q. Just in US dollars, right?
A. Yes.
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. And your testimony is that you did not charge a fee there
either, even though you were managing the fund?
A. That fund charge money.
Q. The fund charge --
A. Charge management fee, yes.
Q. Ashwood?
A. Yes.
Q. Charged a management fee?
A. Yes.
Q. Three percent?
A. I don't remember exactly.
Q. You don't remember?
A. Yeah, but there's a fee, but I don't remember if it's three
percent or not.
Q. I'm not going to ask you again, but you are the person
incorporating Ashwood fund, right?
A. On behalf of Miles Guo.
Q. Of course, but you're the one who ran the fund, right?
A. Yes.
Q. The money came to you, right?
A. Not me, to Alliance.
Q. No, no.?
A. Not me, not myself.
THE COURT: Don't testify.
Q. The money came to the HAA fund, right?
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. You used the money in both funds to purchase H Coin,
correct?
MR. FERGENSON: We're repeating now, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. By the way, did you use the money at Ashwood to invest in a
bank?
A. D2 Bank.
Q. I'm sorry.
A. D2 Bank.
Q. So the answer is yes, you used the money in the Ashwood
fund to invest in a digital bank, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. The investment in this digital bank was in the name of
Ashwood, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. It was not in the name of the farm members who put in the
money, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And the amount of money that you managed or controlled only
on behalf of Miles Guo or the Alliance I'm sure was in the
millions of dollars, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, the commentary is uncalled
for.
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. It was it in the millions of dollars, correct?
A. Eight million.
Q. And your testimony is under eight million you charge no
fee, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: We've covered this.
A. This we charge fee.
THE COURT: Sustained. So we've established that she
personally has not charged a fee, according to her.
Q. According to you, the fund charged the fee, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, as a result of this non-prosecution agreement that you
have with Mr. Fergenson and his office, they are not going to
prosecute you here, correct?
A. If I'm telling the truth provide the evidence.
Q. Right. As long as you do what they asked you to do, they
will give you coverage, correct?
A. No.
Q. Ma'am, they've agreed to give you coverage through the
non-prosecution agreement, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And as a result of that non-prosecution agreement, they did
not ask you to turn over any money, correct?
A. Sorry.
Q. They haven't asked you to turn over any money, right?
A. What do you mean turn over what money?
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
Q. Any money from Ashwood, HAA, they have not asked you to
turn over any money, correct?
A. No.
Q. And they never asked you to turn over any H Coin, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And now they have given you coverage, the United States
government has given you coverage, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you testified at one point you were worried about the
US government, right?
You were worried that they would arrest you; is that
right?
A. Because Island Changdao said at that time I believe that
FBI is CCP.
Q. All right. But now you're no longer worried about that,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. And now you are worried about the CCP, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And the best way to get rid of the CCP is to testify
against Miles Guo, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. The only way you can safely go back to China is if you
disavow your relationship with Mr. Miles Guo, correct?
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O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
THE COURT: I'll allow her to answer that question.
A. No.
THE COURT: Next question.
Q. Could I show her, let's call it DX-7000. Do you recognize
it, ma'am?
A. Yes.
Q. What is it?
A. It's Miles Guo's broadcast.
Q. And you've seen it before, right?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: I move Defense Exhibit 7000 into
evidence.
MR. FERGENSON: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 7000 received in evidence)
MS. SHROFF: May I publish it to the jury, your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes.
Q. Tell us please, starting on the left hand corner, who's the
first man over there.?
A. Left, Lao Ban Zhang.
Q. Who's that?
A. Lao Ban Zhang use to be the Iron Blood Group member and the
New Zealand farm leader.
Q. Who's below him?
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(212) 805-0300
O67BGUO3 Ya Li - Cross
A. Ru Shui.
Q. Who is Ru Shui?
A. Ru Shui also one of the Iron Blood Group member and the one
farm leader.
Q. But let's stay with you Ru Shui now.
Below that, tell the jury who those two are?
A. Hao Tian and Dao Haidong.
Q. Let's start with the male. Who's he?
In the photo on the left, there are two people in
there, right?
A. Hao Haidong and Hao Tian.
Q. He is the socker player, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. That's his wife, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Olympic Badminton player, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. For China, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you know sitting here today that both of them now live
in Spain, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And in the middle are two individuals, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. I certainly don't need you to identify Miles Guo, but tell
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the jury who's next to him?
A. Brother Long Island Changdao.
Q. And who's on the right corner over there?
A. Tao Ying Chago grassroot brother.
Q. And he's the leader of the Japan Fund?
A. Japan fund and Iron Blood Group member.
Q. So one, two, three, four, five, six, seven people so far,
correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. This is from the VOA anniversary, right, Anniversary of
4/19/2017 interview, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And the only person in this meeting that has not shown her
face because of worry for the CCP is you?
A. I just don't want to show my face.
Q. Exactly, because you're worried about the CCP, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you're worried that the CCP will associate you with his
movement, correct?
A. They already associate.
Q. Right. And the best way for you to disassociate with him
is to testify against him here?
A. No.
Q. Isn't that a way to disassociate with him?
A. That's because he did something wrong. He steal people's
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money. That's different.
Q. But that's your opinion, right, that he stole money?
A. This a fact.
Q. You believe that to be a fact, ma'am?
A. Yes.
Q. A fact according to you, right?
A. According to my personal experience.
Q. Exactly. Just you?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. You're the only one who's not showing her face, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. And that is the avatar of Mulan, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. The woman who wants to fight like a man, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And the safest way for you to go back to China is to say, I
do not associate with him?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
A. No.
THE COURT: Sustained.
A. I come here and I show my face.
THE COURT: Let's move on.
Q. You came here. You showed your face and testified against
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Miles Guo, correct?
A. I just tell the truth.
MR. FERGENSON: She should be allowed to answer the
question that's posed, your Honor.
MS. SHROFF: I have just one last question, your
Honor.
THE COURT: Okay.
Q. When you were associated with his movement, you never once
showed your face, correct?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: No further questions.
THE COURT: Redirect.
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Good afternoon, Ms. Li?
A. Good afternoon, Fergenson.
Q. You were asked some questions about monthly payments of
$10,000 from Rule of Law Foundation. Do you recall those
questions?
A. Yes.
Q. So just to start, when did those monthly payments, the
$10,000 monthly payments, around when did those begin?
A. From July 2021.
Q. And we'll come back to those payments. But before that
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time, how long had you been volunteering for Miles Guo
approximately?
A. About four years.
Q. What sort of hours did you work volunteering for Guo?
A. Many hours.
Q. Did you work on weekends?
A. Everyday.
Q. Did you work at night?
A. Yes.
Q. And in July 2021, did you request to start getting paid?
A. No.
Q. What happened that led to these $10,000 monthly payments?
A. From that time Miles Guo ask every farm leader and Iron
Blood Group member need to work full-time for the Alliance.
Q. And before July 2021, did you have a paying job as an
accountant?
A. Yes.
Q. What was your response when Miles Guo said you had to work
full-time for the Alliance?
A. I said I still can work voluntarily, but he insist you
should quit your job and work for me full-time.
Q. What did you do after he told you that?
A. So the next day I ask my company, I quit, I resign.
Q. How long were you paid the $10,000 each month?
A. About one year.
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Q. And was this $10,000 payment, was it just to you or was it
to all the Iron Blood Group members?
A. All the Iron Blood Group members.
Q. You also testified that after about a year or so the
payments changed to H Coin?
A. Yes.
Q. When Guo began paying farm leaders with H Coin, what, if
anything, did he say about Himalaya Exchange's bank account
being seized by the US government?
A. Yes, that's a similar time. So Himalaya Exchange is not
function.
Q. And when he started paying people in H Coin, did he tell
them that the bank account had been seized?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor. It misstates
facts in evidence. There's no evidence that Mr. Guo didn't
pay.
THE COURT: Overruled.
Q. When Guo started paying farm leaders with H Coin later in
2022, did he disclose that the bank account for Himalaya
Exchange had been seized?
A. No.
Q. By the way, Ms. Li, what do you do for work now?
A. Accountant.
Q. Ms. Loftus, can we please publish Government Exhibit
VI-114. Ms. Li, this is the Ampleforth Capital LTD
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subscription document. Do you remember being asked questions
about this on cross examination?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were asked about whether the government showed you
this document in meetings. Do you recall that?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you give this document to the government in the first
instance?
A. Yes, I sent it to the government.
Q. And the other documents you were asked about whether you
looked at them with the government, did you give those to the
government in the first instance too?
A. Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Which ones, your Honor?
MR. FERGENSON: The ones she was asked about on cross.
A. Yes, I give the US government.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could go to, if we could please publish
Government Exhibit VI-29.
Now, Ms. Li, this is the voice message you transcribed
and translated for Miles Guo. Do you recall being asked about
this on cross?
A. Yes.
Q. You were asked questions about related to G/Clubs in this,
do you recall that?
A. Yes.
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Q. Whether Aaron Mitchell was the lawyer for G/Clubs. Do you
remember those questions?
A. Yes.
Q. Ms. Li, let me just read paragraph A: The family fund
offering the final price is $26 million. Does that say G/Club
is offering the final price or the family fund?
A. Family fund.
Q. When you got this, did you think G/Clubs was playing for
this $26 million mansion?
A. No.
Q. We can take it down, Ms. Loftus.
Ms. Li, you were also asked questions about the black
list. Do you remember being asked questions about that?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you just explain to the jury the way the black list
worked?
A. If someone publicly criticize Miles Guo or Alliance or New
Federal State of China, and then we would put them on the black
list and approved by Miles Guo. And there's a Gettr account to
publicly show the black list.
Q. Ms. Li, you were also asked about protest. Do you remember
being asked about protest?
A. Yes.
Q. Who picked the targets of the protest?
A. Miles Guo.
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Q. Who said well done about the violence?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. You were also asked about being threatened by Zhang
Yongbing. Do you remember those questions?
A. Yes.
Q. Why did you feel like you were being threatened to be
kicked out of the movement?
Could you explain to the jury why it felt that way?
A. Because he ask me to fully responsible for that $38
million. I can't repay. If we lose the case, I can't pay back
that much money. I don't have that money. I only have one
life they can take.
Q. I won't ask you more about that. You were also asked about
being sued by the US bankruptcy trustee.
A. Yes.
Q. Ms. Li, are you cooperating with the US bankruptcy trustee?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have any formal agreement, or are you just being
helpful where asked?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, compound.
THE COURT: Break it down, please.
Q. Could you please describe what you mean how are you helping
the bankruptcy trustee?
A. I voluntarily contact bankruptcy trustee Luc Despins and
explained to him what happened and every document I provided to
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him.
Q. Ms. Li, do you remember being asked about the Ashwood fund?
A. Yes.
Q. Who asked you to set up the Ashwood fund?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. What was the Ashwood fund used to do?
A. To do GTV bank investment.
Q. Was that a Miles Guo investment project?
A. Yes.
Q. Ms. Li, you were asked questions yesterday on cross
examination about meetings or emails or phone calls with the
government. Do you remember being asked those questions?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recall having meetings with the government?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recall sending emails to the government?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recall having phone calls with the FBI?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recall all the exact dates of the meetings with the
government?
A. No.
Q. Do you recall all the exact dates of every email you sent
to the government?
A. No.
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Q. Do you recall all the exact dates of every phone call you
had with the FBI?
A. No.
Q. Ms. Li, when you met with the government, what, if
anything, did the government tell you to do in your testimony?
A. I have to tell the truth.
Q. What are you required to do when you testify under your
non-prosecution agreement?
A. I have to tell the truth.
Q. And before you had a non-prosecution agreement, why did you
refuse to sign the false affidavit?
A. Because that's false. That's lie to the court. That's I
don't want to do.
Q. And before you had a non-prosecution agreement, why did you
voluntarily travel to the United States to testify?
A. Because I want to tell the court Miles Guo misleading me,
cheated me and lied to me.
Q. You still believe in democracy in China, Ms. Li?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you testifying today because the CCP forced you to
testify?
A. No. Even now after testify because I show my face, I'm
even in greater risk to the CCP.
Q. Did you testify yesterday and today in your real name?
A. Yes.
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Q. Did you show your real face to these jurors?
A. Yes.
Q. To this whole public courtroom?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you tell the truth in your testimony, Ms. Li?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: No further questions.
THE COURT: Recross.
RECROSS EXAMINATION
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. You gave documents to the prosecutors, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You kept all those documents, correct?
A. Yes.
(Continued on next page)
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BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. You sent them to him, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you read them before you sent them to him?
A. Yes.
Q. You read them before you sent them to him and then you
discussed them with him, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you decided which documents to save, correct?
A. I decide.
Q. Right. And you decided which documents you wanted to
delete, correct?
A. I don't delete.
Q. You didn't give him documents about the HAA management
fees, correct?
A. Sorry?
Q. Did you give him any documents about the internal workings
of HAA?
A. Yeah.
Q. Really? You gave them to him.
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to the commentary on
"really."
Q. You gave this prosecutor documents pertaining to the
internal workings of the HAA fund; that's your testimony?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
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THE COURT: Asked and answered.
A. What document are you refer to?
THE COURT: You don't need to answer.
Q. How about for Archwood, did you give them any contracts
that you had with Archwood?
A. Yes.
Q. You gave them to him.
A. Yes.
Q. You gave him email exchanges pertaining to your running of
Archwood; this prosecutor.
A. Can you say it again?
Q. This prosecutor asked you questions again about a place
called Mahwah.
MS. SHROFF: Can we pull it up for her again.
Q. This document, right?
A. Yes.
Q. How many times did you discuss this document with
Mr. Fergenson when you prepared?
A. I don't remember.
MS. SHROFF: Could I show her page 2.
Q. Do you see No. 1, point No. 1 up there? "This house cannot
have any more restrictions on how to living or using."
Correct?
A. Yes.
Q. This point is saying that the person who wants to buy the
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house does not want to be restricted to using it simply as a
home, correct?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
A. I don't know.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. What is your understanding of point 1?
A. I don't know. I just translate.
Q. So you have no understanding of point 1, sitting here
today.
A. Yeah.
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. You testified about a Digital Bank Project, correct, right
now on redirect?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know if the project is still alive?
A. No, because the——
Q. You don't——I'm sorry.
A. It's already seized by DOJ.
Q. I didn't ask you if the money was seized; I'm asking you if
the project to get a digital bank is still alive.
MR. FERGENSON: She answered the question, your Honor.
A. No.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. No.
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Q. You don't know because you're no longer involved, correct?
A. It's stopped, finished.
Q. You're no longer part of this movement, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You don't know what is going on in this movement now,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You don't know, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. Now——
A. This project, I know, stopped. We send it to the Hamilton
Fund——
MS. SHROFF: Move to strike.
THE COURT: There was not any question pending. These
comments are stricken.
Q. You testified now that you were given a false affidavit,
correct, and you refused to sign it, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And then you further testified that you wanted to come and
testify here, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And the prosecutor asked you questions whether you were
using your real face, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And he asked you if you were using your real voice,
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correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And that is what you did——
MR. FERGENSON: I didn't ask that.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. SHROFF: What did he say?
Q. Real name. You're testifying under your real name, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Real name and real face, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you——I just want to be very clear——are testifying
against Miles Guo, correct?
A. No.
Q. Are you testifying for him?
A. I testify to tell the truth.
Q. You've said that. My question was——
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, asked and answered. She
answered the question.
MS. SHROFF: No, she didn't, actually.
THE COURT: You can answer.
A. Please repeat your question.
Q. You are testifying for the government against Miles Guo.
A. No.
MS. SHROFF: Okay. I have nothing further. Thank
you, your Honor.
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MR. FERGENSON: No further questions.
THE COURT: Thank you. You may step out.
(Witness excused)
THE COURT: And the prosecution may call its next
witness.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, could we just have one
minute.
THE COURT: Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Thank you.
MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, the government calls Lonny
Soza.
THE LAW CLERK: Would you please pull the microphone
close to you, raise your right hand.
(Witness sworn)
THE LAW CLERK: Thank you.
THE COURT: Please state your name and spell it.
THE WITNESS: Lonny, L-O-N-N-Y, Soza, S-O-Z-A.
THE COURT: I need you to speak into the microphone
and speak up so everyone can hear you.
THE WITNESS: Lonny, L-O-N-N-Y, Soza, S-O-Z-A.
THE COURT: You may inquire.
MR. FINKEL: Thank you, your Honor.
LONNY SOZA,
called as a witness by the Government,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
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DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Soza. I'd just ask if you can point
the mic directly at your mouth. You can feel free to move the
mic and move your chair, and with the mic at your mouth, it
will be easier for everybody to hear you, okay?
A. Okay.
Q. Where do you work?
A. Post Oak Motor Cars.
Q. And where is Post Oak Motor Cars?
A. In Houston, Texas.
Q. What is Post Oak Motor Cars?
A. It's a luxury automobile dealership.
Q. What's your position at Post Oak Motor Cars?
A. I'm the president and general manager.
Q. What sort of cars, if any, does Post Oak sell?
A. New cars. We sell Bugatti, Rolls Royce, Bentley, and
Karma.
Q. What's a Karma?
A. It's a fully electric car.
Q. What's a Bugatti?
A. Bugatti is a——what we would consider a hypercar or a super
car, pretty exotic and very low-volume-built vehicle.
Q. I'm just going to ask you to point the microphone directly
at your mouth, okay?
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A. Is that better?
Q. Yeah, that's better.
Did you call it a hypercar?
A. Hypercar or super car is how we refer to them.
Q. And can you explain to the members of the jury what a
hypercar is.
A. Hypercar is typically an exotic type of vehicle, like a
Lamborghini or a Ferrari, McLaren. They're higher-end
vehicles. Bugatti's a little bit different in that the volume
of the vehicle built is a lot less.
THE COURT: How many are produced in a year?
THE WITNESS: I don't know in a year, but what they do
is there's 500 Bugattis built. They started building them in
2018, and they would only build 500 worldwide, and so from '18
to 2025 is how that was split up.
Q. How much does a Bugatti cost?
A. To——typically between——they started when they first
launched at base price of 2.9 million but up to over 5 million
pretty easily.
Q. And that's for one car?
A. One car.
Q. Can you describe to the——well, withdrawn.
Did there come a time, if ever, where G/CLUBS
purchased a Bugatti from Post Oak Motors?
A. Yes.
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Q. Can you describe to the members of the jury the process of
purchasing a Bugatti, how that works.
A. It's a little unique and not your typical car purchase.
The vehicles are made, they're what they call bespoke built,
for each client that buys one, so they initially require a
deposit, which holds your spot for the vehicle, for one of the
500. And then there's a point where——where their client's
vehicle would go, would begin to be built, and you have to
configure the vehicle, which means you have to say how you want
it to be built, which then requires a second deposit.
From the time that the vehicle starts, the process of
building the vehicle starts, is about ten months, and then at
that final ten months, the vehicle is done, it gets paid for in
full, and then delivered to the client.
Q. And when you say delivered to the client, where——what does
that mean?
A. Well, it gets delivered to the store, and then we would in
turn sell the vehicle to the client.
Q. You also mentioned that a Bugatti is bespoke. Can you just
explain what that means in the context of Bugattis.
A. Bespoke is just——it's pure custom built. So if you wanted
to create your own color, create your own theme, your own
leathers or leather kind of, you know, configuration, you could
do it. There's very few limitations——other than changing the
body of the car, there's very few limitations in how you can
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style the vehicle.
Q. Approximately how many dealerships in the United States, if
any, sell Bugattis?
A. I believe there's 14.
Q. And Post Oak is one of them.
A. And we're one of them.
Q. Are there any in the tristate area?
A. I think the closest one to this area is in Connecticut.
Q. What is H.R. Owen?
A. H.R. Owen is a luxury dealership based out of London that
sells Bugattis as well and I believe Bentley and Rolls Royce.
Q. What business, if any, did H.R. Owen refer to Post Oak in
the fall of 2021?
A. So H.R. Owen had a client that they——that they say wanted
to have a US-spec'd Bugatti, and they——they could not sell,
obviously, overseas, they couldn't sell an export, so they
asked us, if we would, to sell the vehicle on their behalf and
split the profit with them.
Q. And why could H.R. Owen not sell a US vehicle?
A. Those vehicles have to be homologated to be able to drive
on US words.
Q. And what's homologated mean?
A. It's——basically makes the vehicle roadworthy and meets all
the National Highway & Safety Transportation requirements.
Q. And did you agree to take on this client from H.R. Owen?
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A. I did.
Q. What's the name of the client?
A. Mileson Guo.
Q. How do you spell Guo?
A. G-U-O.
Q. What was your understanding of what Mileson sought?
A. Just to have a US-spec'd car.
Q. And why is that?
A. To——for——for his home or one of his homes in the US.
Q. And where was that home located?
A. Initially I was understanding it to be Connecticut.
Q. Did you ever meet Mileson Guo?
A. No, sir.
Q. And in the fall of 2021, what was your understanding of who
Mileson Guo was?
A. Back then, we just——he was just a billionaire that was
looking to buy another super car.
Q. Who handled the configuration, the bespoke specifications
for this Mileson Bugatti, H.R. Owen or Post Oak?
A. H.R. Owen.
Q. And who made the payments for this Mileson Guo Bugatti?
A. G Club International.
Q. And what was your understanding of——well, withdrawn.
At this time, in the fall of 2021, what was your
understanding of what G Club International was?
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A. It was just one of his companies.
Q. Did you communicate with anyone from G Club?
A. Yes, I did. The CEO of G Club International.
Q. What was their name?
A. Limarie Reyes Molinaris.
Q. Did you communicate with anyone else from G Club?
A. No, from G Club, no.
Q. Did you communicate with anyone else about this Bugatti?
A. Towards the end of the transaction, the gentlemen named
Mr. He.
Q. Mr. He?
A. He.
Q. What was Mr. He's first name?
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay.
MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, may I approach?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. FINKEL: Handing the witness a binder of several
documents.
Q. I'll ask you to please flip through that binder.
MR. FINKEL: For the record, that binder contains
Government Exhibits 226-233, 240, 243, and 244-249.
Q. Mr. Soza, have you seen this binder before?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. And when have you seen it before?
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A. Earlier today.
Q. Okay. And what is in that binder?
A. These are communications via email as well as the contract
to order the Bugatti and the——the actual configuration for the
vehicle.
Q. Okay. Any financial documents in there?
A. Yes, there are. There are transactions for wire transfers.
Q. Okay. And with respect to the communications, who are the
communications with?
A. Myself, Ms. Limarie from G Club, and H.R. Owen.
Q. And the financial documents, where are they from?
A. Those are from my office.
Q. And does your office maintain financial documents——
A. Yes, we do.
Q. ——in the regular course of business?
A. We do.
MR. FINKEL: All right. Your Honor, the government
offers GX 226-233, 240, 243, and 244-249.
MR. BARKAN: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted, or they are admitted.
(Government's Exhibits 226-233, 240, 243, and 244-249
received in evidence)
MR. FINKEL: Thank you, your Honor.
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Mr. Soza, by the way, where is H.R. Owen located?
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A. London, England.
Q. And you mentioned that you understood in the fall of 2021
that G/CLUBS was his company, I think is what you said?
A. Correct.
Q. Whose company?
A. Mr. Guo's.
MR. FINKEL: Okay. If we can please pull up,
Ms. Loftus——or, I'm sorry, Mr. Gartland——what's in evidence as
Government Exhibit 226.
And we can publish it, please.
Q. Mr. Soza, do you recognize this document?
A. I do.
Q. What is it?
A. This is the initial contract for ordering the Bugatti.
MR. FINKEL: Okay. And if we can zoom in at the top
half, please, Mr. Gartland.
Q. And who's the buyer?
A. G Club International Ltd.
Q. And why does it say G Club International Ltd. instead of
Mileson Guo?
A. Because we understood it to be purchased by his company.
Q. And is that a common occurrence in your line of business?
A. It's a very common occurrence.
Q. Why is that?
A. We see a lot of vehicles being purchased by companies,
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churches, different——different entities.
Q. Okay.
A. Quite often.
Q. And on the right side it says Ordered Vehicle Bugatti
Chiron Super Sport?
A. Correct.
Q. Can you explain to the members of the jury what a Chiron
Super Sport is.
A. Chiron is——Chiron is the 500 Bugatti being built right now.
Super Sport is one of the iterations of those 500 cars. They
make a——I don't know exactly how many they make, but let's say
it's a percentage of the 500 cars or Super Sports.
Q. Where are Bugattis manufactured?
A. In Molsheim, France.
MR. FINKEL: Okay. And we can zoom out of that.
And if we can go to the second page.
And if you can zoom in on the top 2a, please.
Q. And so can you explain to the members of the jury, please,
Mr. Soza, what the base price for this vehicle was.
A. The base price is $3.825 million.
Q. And is that a negotiated price?
A. It is not.
Q. Who sets the price?
A. Bugatti does.
Q. And what does the price depend on? You said before there
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was a range.
A. The——the earlier model Chiron started out as a base price
of 2.9 million; by the time they got to the Super Sport, the
base price had risen to 3.825 million.
MR. FINKEL: You can zoom out of that, please. And if
we can go to page 4.
Q. In paragraph 4, Mr. Soza, there are sort of initial
payment, second payment, final payment. Can you just explain
what that's about.
A. So the initial payment is the deposit that says you're a
committed buyer, and you're waiting for your allocated slot.
When Bugatti allocates your position or slot for your
vehicle to be built, then a second payment, a second deposit is
required, along with a signed configuration saying that this is
the vehicle, this is how the vehicle is going to be specified.
And then again, when the vehicle is built and
undergoing its final testing phases, then full payment is
required prior to the vehicle being shipped from the
manufacturer to the store.
MR. FINKEL: If we can go to page 7, please,
Mr. Gartland.
And if you can scroll down a little bit so we have
both 7 and 8. Perfect.
Q. Do you see paragraph 11, Mr. Soza? It says
Compliance/Sanctions list?
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A. I do.
Q. What is the purpose of that paragraph?
A. If——if there are any clients on any sanctions list, in my
world we look at a——at a system called——sorry, I'm at a loss
for words right now——OFAC, that would tell us if——if basically
we're allowed to do business with any particular party,
and——yeah, that's basically it. It's a no-go list for us.
Q. Okay. And this particular purchase, did Post Oak run its
due diligence and OFAC check?
A. Yes.
Q. Any problems?
A. No, sir.
MR. FINKEL: If we can go to page 10, please,
Mr. Gartland.
Q. Who signed this contract?
A. That's Limarie Reyes from G Club International and myself.
Q. And what is your understanding, if any, why Ms. Reyes
signed this contract as opposed to Mileson Guo, as you say?
A. Right. She was the CEO of the company and it's, again,
pretty normal for us to——to do, to have these kind of
transactions where a representative of the company will buy the
car.
Q. Representative of whose company?
A. Of any company.
Q. In this case, representative of whose company?
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A. Of this——of Mr. Guo's company.
MR. FINKEL: Okay. If we can go to Government
Exhibit 227, which is in evidence.
Q. And this top document, is this an email from you to
Ms. Reyes?
A. That's correct.
Q. And what are you attaching to this email?
A. This is the——we say specifications. This is the
configuration for the vehicle as it's to be built.
MR. FINKEL: You can scroll down, please,
Mr. Gartland.
Keep going.
Right there.
Q. And what is this page that the jury is looking at?
A. This is a summary page of the price of the Chiron Super
Sport, along with a digital image of what it should look like.
Q. And that's the image of the car.
A. Correct.
Q. And so this is the——sort of a computerized spec of what the
car will look like after it was designed.
A. Correct.
Q. And for Customer Name, what's the customer name?
A. Mileson Guo.
MR. FINKEL: And then if you can zoom in back on that
again, please.
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Q. And then below, you said Mileson Guo; is that right?
A. Correct.
Q. There is base price options and total price. What's going
on there?
A. So the base price is just the car before you do
any——any——add any particular personal touches to it. In this
case it was $599,800 of additional options added to the
vehicle.
Q. And so the total price was?
A. $4.4248 million.
Q. And the additional options that cost just a shade under
600,000, what is your understanding of who selected those
additional options?
A. Mr. Guo.
MR. FINKEL: Scroll down, please, Mr. Gartland, to the
next page.
Keep going.
Keep going, please. We're going to go to page 7.
And Mr. Gartland, I'll ask that you sort of slowly
scroll through the next couple pages.
Q. And as he does that, Mr. Soza, can you explain to the
members of the jury what we're looking at.
A. These are digital renditions of the——of the vehicle as it
should be built.
MR. FINKEL: Stop right there.
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Q. What is that plaque?
A. That's——all Bugattis have that plaque as 1 of 500. It
doesn't tell you which number in the sequence that it falls in,
but it's one of 500 to be built.
Q. This Mileson Guo Bugatti, what number Bugatti was it?
A. This was actually No. 400, coincidentally.
MR. FINKEL: If we could go now to Government
Exhibit 230.
Q. And I want to direct your attention, Mr. Soza, to the
second email, dated November 12, 2021. And what is Ms. Reyes
communicating——what is your understanding of what Ms. Reyes is
communicating to you in this email?
A. She's confirming that the configuration chosen was accepted
and approved.
Q. And what is the subject line of this email?
A. The subject line is Configuration Form Chiron Super Sport
Mileson Guo Version 1.
Q. Were there any changes made after that configuration was
sent along?
A. I don't believe so.
MR. FINKEL: If we can look at Government Exhibit 232.
Q. And this first email from Ms. Reyes to you, I believe, on
November 30, 2021, what is your understanding of what Ms. Reyes
is communicating to you in this email?
A. We had received a second deposit for the vehicle, or a
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second——a wire, unsolicited, and it's hard for us to tell where
a wire came from sometimes or what car it's allocated to, so
because it was such a large amount, and internally we could
only really associate it with this vehicle, so I'm asking
Ms. Reyes if they had sent this amount of money to us to
confirm that it was received, or to confirm it was to go
towards the Bugatti purchase.
Q. And she's confirming it?
A. She's confirming it.
Q. And what was the amount of that wire payment?
A. 1,150,000.
Q. And what's the subject line of this email?
A. Configuration Form Chiron Super Sport Mileson Guo Version
1.
MR. FINKEL: If we can look at GX 233, please.
You can scroll down, please.
Q. And what is this document?
A. This is the final invoice for——for requesting final payment
for the Bugatti since it had completed its process of being
built.
Q. And did Mileson Guo's company pay in full for this Bugatti?
A. Eventually, yes. Yes.
Q. And was that cash or did they take out a loan?
A. It was all wire transfers.
Q. Did there come a time, if ever, when the Bugatti was
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delivered to Post Oak?
A. Yes, the vehicle was shipped from the manufacturer to Post
Oak.
MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, may I approach again.
THE COURT: Did you offer financing?
THE WITNESS: There is——there is actually financing
available for those cars. It's a unique program, but
it's——it's only on the final payment.
Q. Mr. Soza, I'm handing you a bunch of documents, which I'll
identify in a moment. If you could just look through those,
please.
MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, for the record, these are
Government Exhibits 202-223.
Q. Do you recognize those images, Mr. Soza?
A. I do.
Q. What are they?
A. They're of the actual vehicle.
Q. Images of the actual Bugatti?
A. Bugatti Chiron Super Sport.
MR. FINKEL: Government offers 202-223.
MR. BARKAN: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: They're admitted.
(Government's Exhibits 202-223 received in evidence)
MR. FINKEL: Mr. Gartland, if we could please publish
Government Exhibit 218.
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BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. What is Government Exhibit 218?
A. This is the Bugatti Chiron Super Sport.
Q. This is the one that Mileson Guo ordered?
A. Yes, sir.
MR. FINKEL: And if we can look at both 216 and 205.
Q. Where is this photograph taken?
A. This was in our——the shop of our store.
Q. What kind of tires does this car have?
A. They're——they're specially made Michelin tires, built only
for this car.
Q. How much do they cost?
A. To replace, about $10,000.
Q. And how often does the owner of this vehicle have to
replace the $10,000 tires?
A. Typically every 500 or so miles.
Q. 500?
A. 500.
Q. Why does the tire need to be replaced after only 500 miles?
A. I'm sure it's built for the performance of the car. The
rubber is typically softer so it's going to wear out a little
bit faster based on how the car drives.
Q. What other upkeep is required for this sort of vehicle?
A. There's annual maintenance that's required.
Q. How much does that cost?
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A. About $80,000.
Q. And what happens for the annual maintenance?
A. The vehicle——basically the back half of the vehicle is
removed and a lot of the hoses and seals in the vehicle are all
replaced. It's a——it's about a crate, a pallet's worth of
materials, mechanical materials that go back into the car.
Q. Can any regular car service shop service a Bugatti?
A. No, sir.
Q. To your knowledge, what's the closest service shop for a
Bugatti of this sort to New York City?
A. Greenwich, Connecticut.
MR. FINKEL: If we can look at Government Exhibit 209,
please.
Q. How many miles were on this car when it was delivered?
A. 245.
Q. Why so many?
A. Part of the process for——for doing the quality check for
the vehicle is road testing it on actual roads, so Bugatti will
put that amount of miles basically breaking in the car before
it's delivered to the client, so when it's delivered, it's
ready to drive.
Q. And what advice, if any, do you give Bugatti customers
about how many miles they should put on it a year?
A. There's two schools of thought. One is, if you're a
collector, you put as low——as little miles as possible; and the
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other is, the car is made to be driven, drive it for anywhere
in the world you want, so——yeah.
Q. How fast does it go?
A. This particular model, shy of 300 miles per hour, but they
do make one that goes over 300.
Q. And you said if you're a collector, you want to put on as
few miles as possible. What do you mean by that? Like if
you're a collector, what do you mean by that?
A. The cars, you know, are anticipated to appreciate in value,
so obviously the lower the miles, as the car ages, the higher
the value should go, theoretically.
Q. Do you market this kind of car as an investment to some
customers?
A. We don't market it as an investment, but we do have that
discussion with clients.
Q. Did you have that discussion in this particular case with
Mileson Guo?
A. I've never talked to Mileson Guo.
Q. What about with Limarie Reyes?
A. No.
MR. FINKEL: If we can look at Government Exhibits 202
and 201.
Q. Mr. Soza, what is this box in Government Exhibit 202 and
opened in 201?
A. This is the——the key box. It holds the——the kind of——the
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fancier key for the vehicle and also the——what we call a super
key, which is used to unlock the higher performance of the
vehicle if you're going to take it on a track.
Q. If one were to lose the super key, how much would it cost
to replace?
A. The bigger key in there I believe is around $10,000.
MR. FINKEL: Okay. We can take that down.
Q. You mentioned someone named Mr. He; is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Did you ever communicate with him in any way?
A. We did; a couple of emails, and a couple of phone calls.
Q. Okay. And just at a high level, what was the nature of
your discussions with Mr. He?
A. Determining where the vehicle would ultimately be
registered so that we could calculate taxes and registration
and do final delivery for the car.
Q. And why did you start talking to Mr. He as opposed to
Ms. Reyes?
A. I was directed——I——I was trying to finish out this
transaction, and at some point in time there were——Ms. Reyes
wasn't as responsive, and then Mr. He came into the picture to
discuss options of taking delivery of the vehicle.
Q. And what did Mr. He say, if anything, about taxes?
A. He was wanting to find out where he could register the
vehicle and basically pay as little to or no taxes for the car.
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Q. And what advice, if any, did you provide Mr. He about
taxes?
A. Well, I told him I couldn't provide him a guidance on that
particular matter.
Q. And did there come a time, if ever, where——well, you had
the car in your lot; is that correct?
A. We did.
Q. Did Mr. He want to come pick it up in your lot?
A. No. They were——well, I say "they." He was asking if we
could have the vehicle shipped overseas for them.
MR. FINKEL: If we can show what's in evidence I
believe as Government Exhibit——yup——240.
We can zoom in on that email, please, Mr. Gartland.
Q. What's the date of this email?
A. This is February 9, 2023.
Q. And can you read the first sentence. From——oh, sorry. Who
is this email from?
A. This is from Mr. He.
Q. And what's his email address?
A. It is coollhr@protonmail.com.
Q. And can you read the first sentence he wrote to you.
A. "We have the register company ready. Please let me know
what informations do you need for the register?"
Q. And then the second paragraph.
A. "In regarding for delivery, we are planning for a tour with
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this vehicle, could we have quotations for delivery this
vehicle to from US to UK, Swissland, Dubai, and Abu Dhabi for
temporary import less than 6 months on a single location if you
provide this service, please."
Q. Have you ever been to Abu Dhabi?
A. I have not been to Abu Dhabi.
Q. Have you ever been to Dubai?
A. I have been to Dubai.
Q. What is your understanding why Mr. He wanted to ship this
car to Swissland, Dubai, or Abu Dhabi?
A. I don't know that I had an understanding other than they
wanted to take delivery outside of the US.
Q. If Post Oak wanted to, could it have shipped this Bugatti
Chiron Super Sport to a foreign country?
A. No, we could not.
Q. Why not?
A. Because we don't export vehicles.
Q. Why not?
A. It's just our——typically the manufacturers restrict us, in
our dealer agreements, from doing so.
Q. At this time, so by February 9, 2023, had Post Oak been
contacted by the FBI?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what did the FBI——initially, what did the FBI seek from
Post Oak, if anything?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Soza - Direct
A. They were——they subpoenaed all the documents, any
communications and documentation regarding this transaction.
Q. And did Post Oak provide such documents?
A. We did.
Q. And at this time, in February of 2023, were you still in
contact with the FBI?
A. Yes, we were.
Q. And U.S. Attorney's Office?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did there come a time where the FBI returned to Post Oak
with the search warrant?
A. Yes, they did.
Q. And can you tell the jury what that search warrant was for.
A. The search warrant was to install tracking devices in the
vehicle.
Q. Which vehicle?
A. The Bugatti Chiron Super Sport.
Q. And did the FBI do that?
A. They did.
Q. After the FBI installed tracking devices in the Bugatti
Chiron Super Sport, did anyone from G/CLUBS or Mileson Guo or
Mr. He pick up the Super Sport?
A. No, sir.
MR. FINKEL: We can look at Government Exhibit 223.
Q. Mr. Soza, what are we looking at here?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O671GUO4 Soza - Direct
A. This is the Bugatti Chiron being loaded into a transport
for——it was being seized at the time.
Q. Who seized it?
A. The U.S. Marshals.
Q. And did they have a warrant for it?
A. They did.
Q. And around the time of the seizure, did the FBI ask you to
do anything else?
A. Prior to the seizure they asked me to send communications
to Mr. He via email.
Q. And did you do that?
A. I did.
Q. And after you sent those communications to Mr. He, did the
FBI ask you to do anything else?
A. They had asked me to communicate with him via text.
Q. Did you do that?
A. I did not.
Q. Why not?
A. I just wasn't comfortable with it.
Q. And what, if anything, did Post Oak do after you were asked
to talk to Mr. He via text?
A. We provided the FBI with a phone from our——from our
account.
Q. And do you know what, if anything, the FBI did with that
account?
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O671GUO4 Soza - Direct
A. I do not.
Q. Do you know if the FBI had conversations with Mr. He?
A. I do not.
Q. Do you know what Mr. He's relationship is, if any, with
Mileson Guo?
A. I do not.
Q. Or G/CLUBS?
A. No, sir.
Q. One moment.
MR. FINKEL: If we can take that down and display
Government Exhibit GX VI35. It's in evidence so we can publish
it, please.
If you can zoom in to the top of that, please,
Mr. Gartland.
Q. Can you read that top sentence, please.
A. "Written Resolution of the Sole Director."
Q. And the next sentence?
A. "Freedom Media Ventures Ltd."
Q. Have you seen this document before?
A. No, sir.
Q. And can you read the sentence below where it says "Written
Resolution of the Sole Director, Freedom Media Ventures Ltd.,
the Company."
A. "I, Haoran He," you want me to read that?
Q. Yeah.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Soza - Cross
A. "——being the sole director of the Company, a company
limited by shares organized under the laws of the British
Virgin Islands with its registered address at Second Floor
Water's Edge Building, Wickham's Cay II, Road Town Tortola,
British Virgin Islands, hereby certify that the following
resolutions were resolved:"
Q. In total, how much did Post Oak collect as a result of the
sale of this Bugatti Super Sport?
A. I believe 4.4 million and change.
MR. FINKEL: Nothing further. Thank you.
THE COURT: Cross-examination?
MR. BARKAN: Yes, your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. BARKAN:
Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Soza.
A. Good afternoon.
Q. You're the president of Post Oak Motors?
A. Right.
Q. Yes, sir. You've been in that role for about seven years?
A. Correct.
Q. Post Oak sells high-end cars, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Super high-end cards, right?
THE COURT: If you would draw the microphone closer to
you, please.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Soza - Cross
MR. BARKAN: Sorry, your Honor.
Q. Post Oak sells high-end cars, right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Super high-end cars, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Including Bugattis, right?
A. Including Bugattis.
Q. Bugatti made the world's fastest car, right?
A. To a certain point, yes.
Q. Over a thousand kilometers an hour?
A. I don't know——I don't know kilometers. I know miles.
Q. And Post Oak sells the Chiron, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Very limited supply?
A. 500.
Q. Right. You testified on direct only 500 are going to be
made ever? These are incredibly sought-after cars, right?
A. I would say so.
Q. You sell one or two a year, right, at most?
A. Correct.
Q. Now the Bugatti ordered by G/CLUBS was No. 400 out of 500,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. Fair to say it's pretty difficult to secure an opportunity
to purchase that particular car?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Soza - Cross
A. What do you mean, the number 400?
Q. Yeah.
A. I think that was a coincidence.
Q. Is it fair to say that it's difficult to purchase any of
the 500 cars?
A. Depends on the means of the person buying.
Q. And you testified on direct that a Bugatti Chiron could
appreciate in value, right?
A. We anticipate that that could be the case.
Q. You testified on direct that the Chiron was going to
originally be configured for Mileson Guo, right?
A. Yes.
Q. By H.R. Owen, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You understood that Mileson Guo was a regular customer of
H.R. Owen, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And it was your understanding, I think you testified on
direct, that Mileson just wanted another super car, right?
A. A US specification.
Q. So your understanding is that Mileson owned other super
cars, right?
A. I was——that was my understanding, but I don't know
directly.
Q. Have you heard of a car called the Pagani Zonda?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Soza - Cross
A. I don't know the Zonda, but I know Pagani as a brand.
Q. Okay. Do you understand that Mileson designed his own
Pagani Zonda?
A. No.
Q. It's not unusual for customers to be referred to you,
right?
A. No, sir.
Q. Including from other Bugatti dealerships, right?
A. Not in the States.
Q. Here, H.R. Owen referred the purchase of the Chiron to Post
Oak, right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Because you understood that the customer wanted it for use
in the United States, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And it was designed to be used in the United States, right?
A. Yes, sir.
MR. BARKAN: Can we pull up Government Exhibit 226,
which is in evidence.
And can we zoom in on the top half, please.
Q. Now at the top of the page, it says, "Supplemental terms
for the purchase of the Bugatti Chiron Super Sport," right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And under the word Buyer, it says G Club International
Ltd., right?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Soza - Cross
A. Correct.
Q. And then a few lines down, next to email, it says
limarier@gclubs.com, right?
A. Yes, sir.
MR. BARKAN: If we go to page 10, please.
Q. And you see the signature blocks here?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Okay. And Limarie Reyes signed for the buyer, right?
A. Yes.
Q. On October 28, 2021?
A. Yes.
Q. And you understood that Limarie Reyes was with G/CLUBS,
right?
A. Correct.
Q. In fact, you testified on direct she was their CEO, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that's your signature by the retailer, right?
A. It is.
MR. BARKAN: We can take that down.
Could we go to GX 227, please.
Q. Okay. This is a November 1, 2021, email from you to
Limarie Reyes, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And it says, "Hi, Limarie. Apologies for the delay in
getting back to you. Attached you will find the specifications
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Soza - Cross
for the build coordinated with Art Katallozi, our Bugatti
partner in London. This configuration will need to be signed
as well. Once we receive along with the deposit your
allocation slot will be locked in." You see that, right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. So on November 1st, you sent initial specifications to
Ms. Molinaris, right?
A. Yes.
MR. BARKAN: Can we scroll down to page 3.
And let's look at the top half, please.
Q. So this is the first page of the specification you sent on
November 1st, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And at the top it says, "Personal configuration for
Bugatti London," right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Next to customer name, it says Mileson Guo, right?
A. Yes.
MR. BARKAN: Okay. Let's go down to page 6 of the
pdf, please.
Q. So if you look here, and if you focus on the bottom half of
the page, you see the signature lines, right?
A. Yes.
Q. They're blank, right?
A. Yes.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Soza - Cross
Q. No one filled in signature lines, right?
A. No.
Q. No one filled in the date lines?
A. No.
Q. Mileson Guo didn't sign this document, right?
A. I don't see any signatures.
MR. BARKAN: Could we go to GX 230, please.
Q. And if you look at the second email down, this is an email
from Limarie Molinaris to you dated November 12, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And she says, "Dear Mr. Soza, Attached Bugatti's personal
configuration accepted with approval signature." You see that,
right?
A. Correct.
MR. BARKAN: So let's go to page 4 of the pdf, please.
And if we look at the top half.
Q. This is a similar document. It says "Personal
Configuration for Bugatti London," right?
A. Yes.
Q. But the customer name now says G Club International Ltd.,
right?
A. It does.
Q. No longer says Mileson Guo, right?
A. It does not.
MR. BARKAN: If we go down to page 7, please.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Soza - Cross
Q. And here, do you see the line that says signature customer?
A. Yes.
Q. And you see a signature above that line, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And there's a date written in by hand?
A. Yes.
Q. And that date is November 12, 2021, right?
A. Yes.
Q. So the previous version of this document that we looked at
that you sent to Ms. Molinaris on November 1st had Mileson Guo
identified in the document, right?
A. It did.
Q. But that version was unsigned, right?
A. The version that I——wait. I'm sorry. Say that again?
Which version, the one that you said before?
Q. The previous version we looked at.
A. Yes, that you showed us was unsigned, yes.
Q. But 11 days later the customer was changed to G Club
International, right?
A. It looks like it.
Q. And that version was signed by the buyer, right?
A. I don't know whose signature that is.
Q. But it's signed, right?
A. It's signed.
Q. And Ms. Molinaris sent that to you and said it was signed,
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Soza - Cross
right?
A. I——I don't remember. I don't remember seeing this document
with G Club International on it. I'm not saying it's not
there, but——
MR. BARKAN: Well, could we go back up to the first
page of the document, please.
Q. So in the second email, this is Limarie Reyes sending this
signed document to you, right?
A. Okay.
Q. And she's the CEO of G/CLUBS; isn't that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Thank you.
MR. BARKAN: Could we go to GX 244, please.
Thank you.
Q. Now I just want to confirm that you testified on direct
that all of the payments for the Chiron came from G/CLUBS;
isn't that right?
A. I did not. I said they all came via wire transfer.
Q. Your testimony is that the payments did not come from
G/CLUBS?
A. They all came for the vehicle being purchased through
G/CLUBS, but——
Q. Okay. Well, let's look in column F.
A. All right.
Q. The first and second deposit payments are indicated as
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Soza - Cross
coming from Limarie Molinaris; isn't that right?
A. Right.
Q. And the fourth, fifth, and sixth lines indicate that G Club
made these payments; isn't that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And the second payment——
MR. BARKAN: Could we pull up GX 232 side by side with
this document, please.
So could we pull up GX 232.
Q. Okay. And this is a November 30, 2021, email from
Limarie——sorry——from Limarie Molinaris to you; isn't that
right?
A. Yes.
Q. And she says:
"Dear Mr. Soza, I hope you had a wonderful holiday
weekend.
"Apologies for the delayed response. Yes, our finance
team submitted a payment for $1,150,000. Please confirm the
above was the amount received, to be applied to our current
remaining balance."
You see that, right?
A. Yes.
MR. BARKAN: Okay. Could we go back to GX 244,
please.
Q. And so line 3, that payment for 1 point——excuse
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Soza - Cross
me——1,150,000, that's the payment that Ms. Molinaris was
confirming in that email; isn't that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Thank you.
There were no payments from Mileson, right?
A. Not that I'm aware of.
Q. There were no payments from Miles Guo, right?
A. Not that I'm aware of.
Q. And there were no payments from Ho Wan Kwok, right?
A. Not that I'm aware of.
Q. And there were no payments from Miles Kwok, right?
A. Not that I'm aware of.
MR. BARKAN: Thank you. You can take that down.
Q. You mentioned on direct——you were asked about sanctions
lists, right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What's a sanctions list?
A. To the best of my knowledge, it's like a——there's——like I
said, we use OFAC, and my understanding is it tracks people who
have illicitly moved money or terrorists——or funding terrorist
organizations, and those——if we were to pull that, if somebody
were to pop up on that list, obviously it's a red flag and we
wouldn't be doing business with that person. I'm not sure what
the exact protocols are after that, but——
Q. What's OFAC?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Soza - Cross
A. I don't know. It's a government agency. It's a government
resource. I don't remember. Office of——I don't remember
exactly what the——what it means, but it's——it's pulled for
every transaction.
Q. Mr. Soza, you testified on direct about an email in which
Mr. He asked about price quotes for shipping the Chiron out of
the United States, right?
A. Correct.
Q. That email was dated February of 2023; isn't that right?
A. I guess so, yeah. I'm not looking at it.
Q. That was the first time Mr. He mentioned shipping the
Chiron abroad, right?
A. As far as I can remember, yes.
Q. Ms. Molinaris never mentioned shipping the Chiron abroad,
right?
A. No.
Q. And at the time the Chiron was ordered, your understanding
was that it was for use in the United States, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that's why the car was being shipped from France to the
United States, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And in fact, it was shipped from France to the United
States, right?
A. It was.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Direct
MR. BARKAN: Thank you. Nothing further.
THE COURT: Any redirect?
MR. FINKEL: No. Thank you, Mr. Soza.
THE COURT: Thank you. You may step out.
(Witness excused)
THE COURT: And the prosecution may call its next
witness.
MR. FINKEL: The government calls Margaret Murphy.
THE LAW CLERK: Would you please pull the mic really
close to you and raise your right hand.
(Witness sworn)
THE LAW CLERK: Thank you.
THE COURT: Please state your name and spell it.
THE WITNESS: Sure. It's Margaret Murphy.
M-A-R-G-A-R-E-T, last name Murphy, M-U-R-P-H-Y.
THE COURT: You may inquire.
MR. FINKEL: Thank you, your Honor.
MARGARET MURPHY,
called as a witness by the Government,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Where do you work?
A. For FBI New York.
Q. And what is your title?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Direct
A. Special agent.
Q. Special Agent Murphy, how long have you been with the FBI?
A. Since March 2016.
Q. And what office are you assigned to?
A. New York.
Q. What is ERT?
A. ERT is the evidence response team.
Q. And what does ERT do as a sort of general matter?
A. ERT will collect forensic evidence or assist squads with
executing search warrants.
Q. Do you have a particular role with ERT?
A. I'm an assistant team leader for one of the teams and I'm a
photographer as well.
Q. What sort of training, if any, is an ERT member required to
have?
A. We're required to attend an ERT basic training where we're
trained in different forensic methods for collecting evidence.
Q. I want to direct your attention to March 15, 2023. What,
if anything, did you do in connection with your ERT assignment
on that day?
A. I was the photographer for a search warrant.
Q. And where was that search?
A. It was at the Sherry-Netherland, which was 781 Fifth
Avenue.
Q. Right here in Manhattan?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Direct
A. Yes.
Q. You mentioned there was a search warrant. Did the FBI in
fact have a search warrant that day?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. And what did the search warrant permit the FBI to do, if
anything?
A. It permitted us to conduct a search of the 18th floor
apartment and to collect evidence related to——to certain
crimes.
Q. And Special Agent Murphy, I'm just going to ask, if you can
direct the mic, point it at your mouth so that it picks up your
voice and everyone can hear you.
A. Sure.
Q. Feel free to move it so it's comfortable for you, all
right? Thank you.
Special Agent Murphy, did the FBI also have an arrest
warrant that day?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. And was anyone arrested on March 15, 2023, at the
Sherry-Netherland?
A. Yes.
Q. Who?
A. Miles Guo.
MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, at this time the government
offers a stipulation, GX STIP3. I'm just going to offer it.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Direct
Government offers Stip 3.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit Stip 3 received in evidence)
MR. FINKEL: And Mr. Gartland, or Ms. Loftus, if we
can please publish GX Stip 3.
Okay. And if you can scroll down a little bit,
please, Ms. Loftus.
"If called as a witness at trial, a Special Agent of
the FBI would testify as follows:
"On March 15, 2023, special agents and other FBI
employees executed a lawful search of the Sherry-Netherland,
781 Fifth Avenue, 18th Floor, New York, New York. During the
course of that search, FBI personnel took photographs of
interior spaces of the Sherry-Netherland——"
THE INTERPRETER: Your Honor, the interpreter is
requesting the counsel to move at a pace so we can interpret.
THE COURT: If you'll just slow down.
MR. FINKEL: I'm sorry.
"During the course of that search, FBI personnel took
photographs of interior spaces of the Sherry-Netherland, 781
Fifth Avenue, 18th Floor, New York, New York, and also lawfully
seized items, documents, and electronic devices.
"GX SH1-GX SH206 are fair and accurate photographs of
interior spaces of the Sherry-Netherland, 781 Fifth Avenue,
18th Floor, New York, New York, that were lawfully captured by
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Direct
an FBI photographer on March 15, 2023."
And your Honor, at this time the government offers
GX SH1 through GX SH206.
THE COURT: They are admitted.
(Government's Exhibits SH1 through SH206 received in
evidence)
MR. FINKEL: We can take that down, Ms. Loftus.
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Special Agent Murphy, can you just briefly describe the
search on March 15, 2023, of the 18th floor of the
Sherry-Netherland Hotel. What took place? What did you do, as
a general matter?
A. Sure. So we entered the premises, once it was cleared, did
a walk-through of the apartment, and then took photographs of
the apartment as it was before we searched it, and then also
collected evidence to include electronic devices, some clothing
items, documentation, and some other items, and photographed
those as well, and then conducted exit photos and concluded the
search.
MR. FINKEL: Ms. Loftus, if we can publish GX SH2 and
SH48.
Q. Special Agent Murphy, what are we looking at in SH2 and
SH48?
A. This is the elevator landing of the 18th floor that opens
to the apartment that we searched.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O671GUO4 Murphy - Direct
Q. How many apartments are on the 18th floor?
A. Just one.
Q. How large is it.
A. Fairly large.
Q. How long does it take to walk from sort of one side to the
other?
A. It would take several minutes.
Q. Are there any exterior spaces on the 18th floor?
A. Yes, there are also two terraces.
Q. Did you go out on the terraces?
A. Yes, I did, to photograph them.
Q. And what do they overlook?
A. Central Park.
Q. Are there any buildings obstructing the view of Central
Park?
A. No.
MR. FINKEL: If we can look at SH3, please.
Q. And Special Agent Murphy, what are we looking at here?
A. This is the dining room. I believe it was room A for the
purposes of our search.
MR. FINKEL: And Ms. Loftus, you can zoom in sort of
on the wallpaper.
Q. Those images on the wall, can you describe for the jury how
they were present there, if at all.
A. It appears to me that it was wallpaper.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Direct
MR. FINKEL: If we can please look at SH6.
Ms. Loftus, if we can zoom in on the lower half from
the sort of top of the windowsill, a little further up.
No, a little further up. Yup. All the way to the
bottom.
Q. Special Agent Murphy, what is that silver cube-like object
in the windowsill?
A. I believe it's an espresso machine.
Q. And what's below the espresso machine?
A. There's a tote bag.
Q. And what's it say on it?
A. The New Federal State of China.
Q. Special Agent Murphy, aside from your testimony here today
and your search on March 15, 2023, were you otherwise involved
in this case?
A. No.
Q. Why then were you involved in the search?
A. It's very typical for ERT members and other agents and
support staff to assist in execution of search warrants for
other cases.
Q. Do you know what the New Federal State of China is?
A. I do not.
Q. Or why that's imprinted on a tote bag?
A. I do not.
MR. FINKEL: If we can please look at GX SH207.
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(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Direct
Could we rotate that.
If we could display for the witness only GX SH207.
Q. Special Agent Murphy, what is GX SH207?
A. This is a layout of the 18th floor of the
Sherry-Netherland.
Q. And is it a fair and accurate layout of the 18th floor of
the Sherry-Netherland?
A. Yes.
MR. FINKEL: The government offers GX SH207.
MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit SH207 received in evidence)
MR. FINKEL: If we could publish that, please.
Q. Special Agent Murphy, there appear to be letters in various
places on this map. Can you explain to the jury why that is.
A. Yes. So we assign room labels to each room, in the area
that we're searching, so that we can trace back where we found
each piece of evidence.
MR. FINKEL: And Ms. Loftus, if you can zoom in on the
right side of this, please.
Keep going. And scroll down a little bit, please.
Q. Okay. What's the letter for the master bedroom?
A. Room P.
Q. And to the left of that, what room is letter Q?
A. That's the dressing room.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Direct
Q. And what about letter N; what's that?
A. That's a walk-in closet.
Q. And did you enter the walk-in closet, master bedroom, and
dressing room?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And can you describe to the members of the jury how, if at
all, those rooms are connected.
A. Yeah, they're all connected to the master bedroom
through——through doorways, but——yeah, they're all connected.
MR. FINKEL: All right. If we can please look at
GX SH19.
Q. Special Agent Murphy, what is this an image of?
A. This is room N, the walk-in closet.
Q. And this is the walk-in closet connected to the master
bedroom?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. And that piece of paper that says N on it, was that there
when FBI arrived?
A. No.
Q. Can you describe why it's there?
A. Those are the room labels I was describing earlier. We put
it up as we're taking entry photos.
MR. FINKEL: If we can look at GX SH15 and 16.
Q. Is this that same closet?
A. Yes, it is.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Direct
MR. FINKEL: If we can look at SH130.
Q. Is SH130 a photograph from that same closet?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. By the way, who took these photographs?
A. I did.
MR. FINKEL: All right. Ms. Loftus, if we can display
SH165 and 164.
Q. Special Agent Murphy, are these photographs also taken in
that same closet, closet N?
A. Yes, they were.
MR. FINKEL: And Ms. Loftus, you can zoom in on the
right, the label, please.
Q. Special Agent Murphy, what does the label inside the suit
pocket hanging in closet N say?
A. It says "Brioni for Miles Kwok."
Q. What's Brioni?
A. It's a high-end men's clothing line.
MR. FINKEL: And if we can look at SH167 and 166.
If we can zoom in, Ms. Loftus, on the right side.
Q. Special Agent Murphy, are these images from that same
closet?
A. Yes, they are.
Q. Similar label for Miles Kwok?
A. Yes.
MR. FINKEL: And if we can now look at, please,
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Direct
GX SH28 and GX SH29.
Q. Special Agent Murphy, what are photographs SH28 and SH29?
A. This is an item we seized during the search warrant.
Q. And where are these photographs taken?
A. This is the master bedroom, room P.
Q. And that's the master bedroom connected to the closet?
A. Yes.
Q. And what is that on the bed?
A. It's a cellphone.
Q. And where was that cellphone found?
A. It was found between the mattresses during the arrest and
clear of the——of the apartment.
Q. It was found under the mattress.
A. Yes.
Q. What's a knock and announce?
A. Knock and announce is typically what the FBI does before we
execute a search warrant to alert the people inside the
premises that the FBI is there and to——and announce their
presence.
Q. What does the FBI do when it knocks and announces?
A. Typically knocks and announce and say, "FBI, search
warrant, come to the door."
MR. FINKEL: If we can look at GX SH152.
If we can zoom in on the right side, the top half.
The right side, please, Ms. Loftus. Yeah.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Direct
Q. And what's that Post-it note?
A. That's a Post-it note with the names of the people who
found the item and the room where they found it.
Q. So this is room S?
A. Yes.
Q. And what does it say on the document itself at the top?
A. G Club.
Q. Do you know what G Club is?
A. I know it's an entity associated with——with Miles Guo, but
I don't know anything else.
MR. FINKEL: Okay. Can we look at please SH153.
Q. What does that red card say?
A. Mileson.
MR. FINKEL: If we can look at, please, SH156 and 157.
Q. What are we looking at in SH156 and SH157?
A. It's an international driving permit from Hong Kong and
exit and entry permit for Taiwan.
Q. And the right side, the 157, are those documents open?
A. Yes.
Q. And who are these documents for?
MR. FINKEL: Ms. Loftus, you can zoom in on the right
side.
A. So the name is Kwok Ho Wan for the driving permit.
Q. And the post on the left in the zoomed-up part of the
screen, where were these documents found?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Direct
A. These were found in room S, which was the study, in the top
left drawer of a black desk.
MR. FINKEL: If we can look at SH149.
Can you zoom in, Ms. Loftus, so that we could see the
note, the Post-it.
Q. Where were these two items found?
A. They were also found in room S, which was a study, right
top drawer of black desk.
MR. FINKEL: Okay. Zoom out of that, please.
Can you zoom in, Ms. Loftus, on the two golden items.
Can you zoom in on the one all the way on the left.
We can look at SH58, please.
Q. What is this?
A. This was another room in the apartment. I believe this was
room X.
Q. Special Agent Murphy, did you also take a number of
photographs of other types of clothing?
A. Yes, I did.
MR. FINKEL: Could we look at SH81 and 82.
Q. Are these the sorts of clothing that you took photographs
of?
A. Yes.
Q. Who selected which pieces of clothing to take photographs
of?
A. We had a search team that was guided by the case agents who
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Cross
had knowledge of the case.
Q. So did you select or did they select?
A. They selected it.
Q. Do you know what G Fashion is?
A. I know it's an entity associated with Miles Guo,
but——that's all.
Q. Special Agent Murphy, approximately how many photographs
did you take on March 15, 2023?
A. It was over 700.
Q. And the photographs that were admitted into evidence just
before and the photographs that were shown to you today, did
you have any role in selecting what photographs were shown?
A. I did not.
Q. How many times did we meet before you testified today?
A. I think we met four or five times.
Q. And aside from your testimony today and your search on
March 15, 2023, did you have any other involvement in this
case?
A. I did not.
MR. FINKEL: Nothing further.
THE COURT: Cross-examination.
MR. KAMARAJU: Thank you, your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. KAMARAJU:
Q. Good afternoon, Special Agent Murphy.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O671GUO4 Murphy - Cross
A. Hi.
Q. It is Friday afternoon so I'm going to try to do this
quickly, okay?
A. Okay.
Q. I know you said you were with the evidence response team,
correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And part of the role of the evidence response team is to
collect evidence and transport it back to FBI, the FBI field
office, right?
A. Well, it depends, but usually the person responsible for
transporting the evidence back to the field office, it could be
someone from the case team, not necessarily someone on the
evidence response team. It all depends who the seizing agent
is.
Q. Got it. But there's somebody with the FBI who is
responsible for transporting the evidence back, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And in terms of the Sherry-Netherland search, there were
agents responsible for doing that there also, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Now how did you arrive at the Sherry-Netherland that day?
A. Me personally?
Q. Yes.
A. I drove my——my bureau-issued vehicle.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Cross
Q. Okay. And where did you park?
A. I think I parked somewhere near 59th Street, near Central
Park.
Q. Do you know if the Sherry-Netherland has its own garage?
A. I don't know.
Q. Now you testified I believe that the search warrant that
was going to be executed was for the 18th floor apartment,
right?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. So——and the items to be seized, if any, were to be
seized from that apartment, right?
A. Correct.
Q. So the FBI was not permitted that day to seize a Bugatti,
correct?
MR. FINKEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. I was executing——part of a team executing one search
warrant that was issued that day. I'm not sure if there were
any other warrants that the FBI was authorized, so I can only
speak to the search warrant for 781 Fifth Avenue.
Q. Okay. Prior to conducting this search and arrest
operation, the FBI held a briefing, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you attended the briefing, right?
A. Yes.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Cross
Q. And the purpose of the briefing was to go over the
operation, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And to talk about what the FBI could and cannot do during
the operation, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that's all standard, right?
A. Yes.
Q. It's happened before every search warrant you've ever
executed, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And during that meeting there was no search warrant
for a Bugatti discussed, right?
MR. FINKEL: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. I don't——I don't recall anything about a Bugatti.
Q. Okay. Same answer with respect to any kind of Lamborghini,
right?
MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, could we approach, actually.
THE COURT: Yes.
(Continued on next page)
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Cross
(At the sidebar)
MR. FINKEL: So, your Honor, as this Court knows,
there is——every piece of evidence that's being offered at this
trial is lawful, the seizure of the Bugatti was lawful, the
seizure of the Lamborghini was lawful. If the defense counsel
wants to ask was a Bugatti found or was a Lamborghini found at
the Sherry-Netherland, that's a fair question, but he should
not suggest that the seizure of the Bugatti and the seizure of
the Lamborghini were something outside a search warrant that
the government wasn't lawfully permitted to do. That's number
one.
Number two, I don't understand the relevance of what
was seized at other locations on other dates and times.
THE COURT: So were the cars seized?
MR. FINKEL: The Lamborghini was seized on March 15,
2023, in Connecticut, which Special Agent McNamara testified
to. The Bugatti was seized I think about a month or so later
from Post Oak.
THE COURT: So he can ask: Do you know anything about
search warrants for cars.
MR. FINKEL: That's fine. I just don't want them
implying that the seizures were unlawful or improper.
THE COURT: I do not think that the average person
would get that impression at all.
MR. KAMARAJU: First of all, your Honor, my question
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Cross
didn't go anywhere near that. Secondly, your Honor is going to
instruct the jury that there were lawful seizures. This is
just, in my opinion, fairly routine, standard questions for an
agent who conducted a search. I'm not trying to suggest that
any search was unlawful. I don't have any reason to. If I
would, I would have challenged the search warrant. I'm just
trying to get through the search.
MR. FINKEL: So, your Honor, I'd ask at the conclusion
of the cross that you instruct the jury, the government would
request, that all the seizures in this case were lawful.
MR. KAMARAJU: That's part of your jury instructions
at the end of the trial.
MR. FINKEL: But why are you asking the questions now?
MR. KAMARAJU: If I wanted to argue that the searches
were unlawful, the time for it was before. No question I have
asked suggests that the searches were unlawful. They know
perfectly well that I'm allowed on cross or in summation to
talk about where the cars were found. All I'm doing is
saying——
MR. FINKEL: Your Honor——
MR. KAMARAJU: Excuse me, Mr. Finkel. All I'm doing
is saying that the FBI didn't go to that house to try to find a
Bugatti or a Lamborghini or anything else, and they weren't
found. I'm not saying it was improper for the FBI to do that.
I'm not throwing any aspersions to it. I'll be done with there
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Cross
in two questions and then we'll be moving on.
MR. FINKEL: I have no objection to defense counsel
asking was a Bugatti——were you looking for a Bugatti, but not
whether you had a search warrant for a Bugatti, because in
fact, we did have one. We got one later.
MR. KAMARAJU: Okay. I can clarify the question and
say: You didn't have a search warrant for a Bugatti at the
address of the Sherry-Netherland.
MR. FINKEL: What is the relevance of saying search
warrant? Why not just say: Were you looking for a Bugatti
there?
MR. KAMARAJU: Frankly, that implies that the search
might be unlawful.
MR. FINKEL: So that then you agree that the seizure
of the Bugatti and the Lamborghini were lawful. Do you agree
with that?
MR. KAMARAJU: Yes, because I did not file a motion to
suppress.
MR. FINKEL: Then we should just have an instruction.
MR. KAMARAJU: No.
THE COURT: I don't think the instruction is
necessary. You can ask the questions.
MR. KAMARAJU: Thank you, your Honor. I appreciate
it.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Cross
(In open court)
THE COURT: You may continue.
BY MR. KAMARAJU:
Q. All right. So I think I left off, there was no search
warrant to seize a Lamborghini at that address either, right?
A. Not on March 15th, to my knowledge.
Q. Okay. And to your knowledge there was no search warrant to
seize a Ferrari from that address, right?
A. Not for March 15, 2023, to my knowledge.
MR. KAMARAJU: Okay. Now could we pull up GX SH207,
which I believe is already in evidence.
Okay. So this is the——could we make sure the jury has
it too, please.
Thank you.
Q. All right. So this is the layout, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. Did you prepare this diagram?
A. I did not.
THE COURT: One moment, please.
MR. KAMARAJU: Oh, I'm sorry, your Honor.
(Pause)
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MR. KAMARAJU: Thank you.
Q. So you testified that you went out onto two different
terraces, correct?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Cross
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. So on the diagram, I think there are three terraces
that are identified, so could you just tell us which ones you
want out and photographed.
A. Right. I recall the two longer ones. I see there's also a
terrace in the master bedroom. I think I forgot to——when I was
referencing the terraces, I forgot about that one.
THE COURT: Mr. Kamaraju, if you would tell me the
number of this exhibit, the floor plan.
MR. KAMARAJU: Yes, your Honor. It is GX SH207.
THE COURT: Thank you.
MR. KAMARAJU: Sure.
Q. Okay. But do you recall whether you took photographs on
the third terrace as well?
A. I can't recall offhand. I'd have to reference my photo
log.
Q. Okay. Now before, you testified on direct about the
elevator bay to enter the Sherry-Netherland's apartment, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Now the elevator goes up from the lobby up to the 18th
floor; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And when you're in the lobby, there's a——there's
security, right?
A. I don't recall there being security that day 'cause I think
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4 Murphy - Cross
we were accessing through multiple elevators. There was a
service elevator as well. So I'm not sure about the security
guard's presence there.
Q. So just so we're clear, the elevator that you took, did
that lead out into that elevator bay that you photographed or
did you have to walk there?
A. I don't recall.
MR. KAMARAJU: Okay. Could we have Government
Exhibits GX SH164, 166, and 167.
Those two are fine for right now. Thanks.
Q. So you remember testifying on direct about these?
A. Yes.
Q. Right? And you identified them as Brioni suits, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And I think you said Brioni was a high-end men's suit
company, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So you have no idea when these suits were bought,
right?
A. Sorry. I didn't hear.
Q. You have no idea when these suits were bought, right?
A. Correct. I don't know.
Q. You have no idea where any——when any article of clothing in
the apartment was purchased, right?
A. Right.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O671GUO4
Q. You just came and took photographs of what you saw in the
closet, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Now let's stick with clothing.
MR. KAMARAJU: Can we go to GX SH81 and 82.
Q. All right. You testified about taking photographs of
these, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Now is this how the clothes appeared in the apartment?
A. No. These were put there for the purpose of taking
photographs.
Q. And were they in any kind of like wrapping or plastic
before they were photographed?
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay. Who would have put them here for you to take these
photographs?
A. One of the members of the search team.
Q. Okay.
THE COURT: So it is now 3 p.m.
MR. KAMARAJU: I thought I could do it, your Honor.
I'm sorry.
THE COURT: So members of the jury, it's time for you
to have your weekend. Remember that you're not allowed to
discuss this case amongst yourselves or with anyone else.
Don't permit anyone to discuss the case in your presence.
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1850
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O671GUO4
Don't read, watch, or listen to anything from any source about
anything having to do with the subject matter of this case.
I wish you a good weekend. We will start in the
morning on Monday at 9:30. We're going back to the other
schedule. 9:00 you'll have your breakfast ready for you. Have
a good weekend.
THE JURORS: Thank you.
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: Ma'am, you may step out. Don't discuss
your testimony, and I'll need for you to be in the courtroom on
Monday at 9:29.
THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor.
(Witness not present)
THE COURT: You may be seated.
Is there anything before we break for the weekend?
MR. KAMARAJU: Not from the defense, your Honor.
MR. FINKEL: Nor the government. Have a nice weekend.
THE COURT: Have a nice weekend.
MR. KAMARAJU: Thank you, your Honor.
(Adjourned to June 10, 2024, at 9:00 a.m.)
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1851
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
INDEX OF EXAMINATION
Examination of: Page
YA LI
1607Cross By Ms. Shroff . . . . . . . . . . . . .
1774Redirect By Mr. Fergenson . . . . . . . . . .
1782Recross By Ms. Shroff . . . . . . . . . . . .
LONNY SOZA
1789Direct By Mr. Finkel . . . . . . . . . . . . .
1814Cross By Mr. Barkan . . . . . . . . . . . . .
MARGARET MURPHY
1826Direct By Mr. Finkel . . . . . . . . . . . . .
1839Cross By Mr. Kamaraju . . . . . . . . . . . .
DEFENDANT EXHIBITS
Exhibit No. Received
6512 1653 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
60503 1749 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
6498 1752 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
7000 1770 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
GOVERNMENT EXHIBITS
Exhibit No. Received
1795 226-233, 240, 243, and 244-249 . . . . . . .
1804 202-223 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Stip 3 1829 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
1830 SH1 through SH206 . . . . . . . . . . . . .
SH207 1833 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Translated Text(简体中文翻译)
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第1/页 美国纽约南区法院 -------------------------------------------------------x 美利坚合众国， 控方 23 Cr. 118 (AT) 郭文贵 被告。 审判 -------------------------------------------------------x 纽约州纽约市， 2024年6月7日 上午8:45 庭前： 尊敬的阿娜丽莎-托雷斯法官大人， 地区法官 -及陪审团- 出庭律师： 达米安-威廉姆斯 纽约南区美国联邦检察官 代表：迈卡·F·费根森 瑞安·B·芬克 贾斯廷·霍顿 朱莉安娜·N·莫里 助理美国检察官 萨布丽娜·P·施洛夫 被告律师 PRYOR CASHMAN LLP 被告律师 代表：西德哈达·卡马拉珠 约翰·M·基尔加德 克莱尔·P·蒂尔顿 ALSTON & BIRD LLP 被告律师 代表：E·斯科特·舒里克 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第2/页 另有出席者： Isabel洛夫特斯，法律助理，美国检察官办公室 Ruben Montilla，辩方法律助理 Tuo Huang，普通话翻译 Shi Feng，普通话翻译 Yu Mark Tang，普通话翻译 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第3/页 2024年6月7日 美国诉郭文贵案 庭审笔录第10位证人 第四部分 时间：上午8:45 (审判恢复;陪审团不在场) 法官说：请介绍你们自己。 芬克律师：早上好，法官大人。莱恩·芬克、贾斯汀·霍顿、朱莉安娜·莫里和麦卡·费根森，他 们很快会加入我们，代表政府。我们还有特别探员罗伯特在律师席。 舒里克律师：早上好，法官大人。 卡拉马珠律师、施洛夫律师和巴尔坎律师很快也会加入我们，我们和郭先生在律师席。 法官说：请坐下。在我们今天开始之前，有什么事项吗？ 芬克律师：政府这边没有。 施洛夫律师说：没有，法官大人，我们这边也没有。 法官说：那么请让证人在8:59准备上证人席。 芬克律师：我们会的，法官大人。 法官说：谢谢。 (休庭) 法官说：请把陪审团叫进来。 （陪审团在场） 法官说：请坐下。早上好，陪审员们。感谢你们准时回来。我们将继续证人的交叉询问。 李女士，请记住你仍在宣誓下作证。 施洛夫律师说：我可以开始吗，法官大人？ 法官说：可以。 李娅，辩方施洛夫律师继续进行交叉询问： 问：李女士，请让我把你的注意力转向辩方证物60497。你能公布一下吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第4/页 这是Lei Ann Li，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：她的名字是玉米地小妹，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你不赞成她的工作成果，对吗？ 答：对不起。 问：她为谁工作？ 答：我为郭文贵工作。 问：她为谁工作？ 答：她为郭文贵工作。 问：她为哪家公司工作？ 答：G Fashion。 问：你不喜欢她在G Fashion的设计，对吗？ 答：对不起。 问：你不喜欢她在G Fashion的设计，对吗？ 答：不是她的设计。 问：你还作证说你是秘密翻译组的负责人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你监督一个叫新生的人，对吗？ 答：你是说新生吗？ 问：我没听到她的名字。 答：你是说新生吗？ 问：X-I-N, S-H-E-N-G。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第5/页 答：是的。 问：他抱怨过你在组内对待他的方式，对吗？ 答：一次。 问：他离开了这个组，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他说他离开的原因是你对待他的方式不当，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：他和另外17个人一起离开，他们也抱怨你对待他们的方式，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：17个人离开了你的组，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他们是一起离开的，对吗？ 答：有些人回来了。 问：我没听到你说什么。 答：有些人回来了。 问：我没问你是否有人回来。 费根森律师说：反对，法官大人。 法官说：反对无效。17个人离开了吗？ 证人：是的。 问：在一次会议上对所有这些问题进行了长时间讨论，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：郭先生也参加了那次会议，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第6/页 问：他们也参加了那次会议，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你也参加了那次会议，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在会议期间，他们提出了抱怨，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：郭先生告诉大家，在抱怨别人之前先看看自己，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。在郭先生与这些人开会后，有些人回来了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：即使他们回来后，其他人仍然抱怨你对待他们的方式，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：让我给你看一个标记为辩方证物的文件，它马上会显示出来。这是证物60499。你认识 这个人吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是谁？ 答：Sara Wei。 问：Sara Wei与谁一起工作？ 答：与郭文贵一起。 问：她属���哪个组？ 答：VOG。 问：那是郭之声，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第7/页 问：她也是从志愿翻译开始的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你也不喜欢和她相处，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：你是铁血组的一员，对吗？ 答：对不起，谁？ 问：她是铁血组的一员吗？ 答：不，她离开了。 问：她离开了铁血组？女士，我没问你她是否离开了。 答：她在铁血组成立之前就离开了。 问：在她离开之前，她是这个组的一员—— 答：不，铁血组是在她离开后成立的。 问：所以她从来不是铁血组的一员？ 答：是的，从来不是。 问：你不喜欢她，对吗？ 答：不。 问：好的。现在，让我们谈谈被展示给你的视频。我们来谈谈你在直接询问中被展示的视频 ，对吗？你记得那些吗？ 答：对不起。 问：你在费根森律师的直接询问中作证，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我相信你被展示了八个视频，对吗？ 答：哪个视频？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第8/页 问：你在屏幕上看到视频，并对它们作证，关于这些播放的内容？ 答：是的。 问：你记得吗？ 答：是的。哪个？ 问：我们从GXVI-191开始。 答：是的。 问：你记得对这个视频作证吗？ 答：是的。 问：这个视频有多长？ 答：将近两个小时。 问：将近两个小时，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你作为翻译职责的一部分翻译了这个视频，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你说这是根据郭文贵的要求翻译的，对吗？ 答：我们翻译了他所有的直播视频，是的。 问：请展示192-T。能放大一点吗？你记得被展示过这个文件吗？ 答：是的。 问：我们能从这一段开始吗？这是一份口头协议，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你没有翻译这个文件，但你翻译了包含这些语言的视频，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：好的。你能为陪审团读一下这段话吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第9/页 答：这是我想与法治基金达成的口头协议。根据纽约州对C3和C4公益非营利组织的基本要 求，只要其中70％的资金是由文贵捐赠的， 就不应该称为郭文贵。这是由郭文贵的家族基金和相关公司捐赠的。 问：谢谢。尽管你没有看完整个视频，你也翻译了这部分，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。 法官说：反对无效。你指的是哪一部分翻译？ 施洛夫律师说：我会重新表述。 问：你看完整个视频，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你翻译了整个视频，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：但是你记得作证时说过郭先生信任你的团队来进行翻译，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你说你翻译了每一个直播，对吗？ 答：不是全部。我们没有翻译整个视频。我们翻译了片段，但我不记得这个片段。 问：所以你不记得这个片段是否是视频的一部分；这是你的证词吗？ 答：不，这是视频的一部分。 问：好的，谢谢你。你可以把它放下。 现在，你刚才作证说你听了郭先生所有的直播；对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在他的直播中，他谈到了他的资产被查封的事，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他谈到了他在香港的资产被查封的事，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第10/页 答：是的。 问：他谈到了Pax诉讼，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他提到了一个叫单伟建的人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他说他是中共间谍，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：郭先生表示他认为是中共策划了Pax诉讼，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他还在直播中说他觉得自己被迫宣布破产，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对，传闻。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：他说他的破产是中共迫害的结果。 问：没错。他说他被迫这样做，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他说他觉得被迫这样做是因为他被要求在不合理的时间内还清钱款，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你作证时谈到了破产受托人的不公正，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对，传闻。他说。 施洛夫律师说：这不是为了证明事实。 费根森律师说：法官大人，这显然是传闻。 法官说：请上前来。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第11/页 （边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 法官说：你现在引出这些陈述的目的是什么？ 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，这些陈述的目的是为了证明政府关于郭文贵在其直播中 撒谎的理论是不正确的。事实上，他在直播中谈到了各种各样的事情，包括他的财务状况。 因此，当他们提出他很富有；他有很多钱时，根据完整性规则，第一，显示他对所有观看他 直播的人都是坦诚的。但，第二，我们引出这些信息并不在于郭文贵的陈述本身是真还是 假。 事实是他做出了这些陈述。这反映了他的心态，这是传闻规则的一个例外，而且并不 是为了证明所断言的事实。他们引出的是Pax诉讼让他来到这里。他们引出了关于Pax诉 讼的信息，并且他们只引出了直播中的片段。为了完成这个画面，这就是提问的原因。只有 这两个问题，这一个和下一个，然后我就结束了。 费根森律师说：如果不是为了证明事实，我们可以接受。法官大人可以向陪审团明确 说明，这些陈述不是由他的辩护律师为了其真实性而提出的。 施洛夫律师说：我们没有异议。如果法庭认为适当，可以指示陪审团这些陈述只是 为了显示郭先生当时的心态，仅应以此为依据考虑。 费根森律师说：仅仅不为了其真实性，因为她提到的不只是他说了，最后一个问题是 他作证了。 施洛夫律师说：我从未说过作证。 费根森律师说：他不能通过律师作证，所以我认为告诉陪审团他在法庭外所说的话 不是为了其真实性是合适的。 施洛夫律师说：我们没有异议。 法官说：这就是我要做的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第12/页 施洛夫律师说：我说“你”作证，意思是她作证。就在这里。这是实时回放。你应该读 一下。 费根森律师说：如果我听错了，我听到了他。 法官说：好的。我们回去吧。 （回到公开法庭） 法官说：陪审团成员们，证人所说的郭先生的话和我预计将从郭先生那里听到的陈 述不是为了证明所断言的事实。你可以继续了。 施洛夫律师说：我认为我需要重新上前。 （边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，恕我直言，我请求法庭说明这些陈述是为了显示郭先生当 时的心态。 法官说：我认为这不是一个合适的指示。 施洛夫律师说：好的，谢谢。 （回到公开法庭） 法官说：你可以继续了。 施洛夫律师问：他还说过，他认为破产受托人的行为不当，对吗？ 答：对不起，行为什么？ 问：不当，不正确。 答：他说受托人是中共间谍。 问：他还说过，受托人赚了3.85亿美元的律师费，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第13/页 问：你收到了破产受托人的传票，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你收到传票时在澳大利亚，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道传票是法律文件，对吗？ 答：不，我不知道。 问：你看过传票吗？ 答：没有，郭文贵让我们扔掉。 问：我理解郭文贵让你做所有这些事情。我理解这一点。我的问题是，你读过传票吗？ 答：没有。 问：所以你收到了传票。你没有读它，但不知怎么的你知道它是传票，对吗？ 答：是的，因为来自普衡。 问：来自谁？ 答：来自普衡。 问：来自普衡？ 答：是的，受托人的律师事务所。 问：所以你知道它来自一家律师事务所，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：律师事务所有律师，对吗？ 答：受托人的律师事务所。 问：但他们有律师，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：律师给你寄了一份法律文件，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第14/页 答：是的。 问：你告诉郭文贵你收到了法律文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：为了告诉他你收到了法律文件，你必须知道这是什么法律文件，对吗？ 答：我不知道，只是法律文件。任何法律文件，郭文贵都说要扔掉。 问：任何法律文件？ 答：是的。 问：所以如果你收到关于你女儿的法律文件，你也会扔掉？ 法官说：支持。 费根森律师说：谢谢。 问：女士，你的证词是你没有打开法律文件吗？ 答：是的，没有打开。 问：你没有打开它？ 答：没有。 问：顺便问一下，你是怎么收到这个文件的？ 答：通过邮件。 问：哪种邮件？ 答：联邦快递。 问：对不起，什么？ 答：联邦快递。 问：联邦快递？ 答：是的。 问：联邦快递？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第15/页 答：是的。 问：你从一家名叫普衡的律师事务所收到一个联邦快递的信封。你拿到信封后就把它扔进 了垃圾桶。你甚至没有打开联邦快递的信封？ 答：是的。 问：你从未打开过信封本身？ 答：是的。 问：联邦快递要求你签收，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你签收了吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以你知道你收到了这个文件——我收回这句话。你作证说普衡是一家律师事务所， 对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你一点也不好奇为什么一家律师事务所要联系你吗？ 答：对不起。 问：我收回这句话。后来你知道你被受托人传唤了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道受托人的名字，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道如何联系受托人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你是怎么知道受托人的名字的？ 答：郭文贵的直播。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第16/页 问：所以—— 答：在直播中郭文贵说受托人是卢克·德斯宾，并在节目中解释了破产案。 问：所以在直播中郭文贵告诉你普衡有一个受托人，对吗？ 答：是的，他还要求翻译任务为他翻译这个法律文件。 问：所以你知道这是什么法律文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以你知道这是传票，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道这是法律文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道即使是中共的人发出的法律文件，它仍然是法律文件，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对，法官大人。她在作证。 答：郭文贵告诉我们。 法官说：反对无效。问题很复杂，请分开回答。 问：你昨天在直接询问中作证，对吗—— 答：是的。 问：——即使你被中共针对，你也不能诈骗。这是你的证词，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以即使你收到了中共发出的传票，你也不能忽视它，对吗？ 答：那时候郭文贵说扔掉。当时我完全信任他，所以我扔掉了。 问：好的。所以你完全信任他并且扔掉了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以有一段时间你认为你可以忽视所有法律文件，因为郭先生告诉你？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第17/页 答：是的。 问：他告诉你的任何事你都会做，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：任何事？ 答：是的。 问：当郭先生告诉你不要支付农场里的那个人G/Club会员费用时，你没有听他的，对吗？你 还是支付了那1万美元，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以当你不想听郭文贵的时候，你可以不听郭文贵，对吗？ 答：那不一样。 问：不。我的问题是，你没有听郭文贵，对吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，她不能只是说不。她必须提问。 施洛夫律师说：我没有问是否不同。 费根森律师说：她不能和证人争论。 法官说：所以你需要——如果问题要求是或否的回答， 你就回答是或否，或者我不记得了，或者我不明白。你明白吗？不要添加额外的信息。 证人说：好的。 费根森律师说：法官大人，有些问题很难回答是或否。但这并不意味着她可以和证人 争论。 法官说：是的，对。有些问题确实难以用是或否回答。而且证人是一个非常聪明的人 ，能够辨别她是否可以回答是或否。继续。 施洛夫律师问：他还让你搬到阿布扎比，对吗？ 答：对不起。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第18/页 问：郭文贵让你搬到阿布扎比，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你说不，对吗？ 答：不对。 问：你搬到阿布扎比了吗？ 答：因为后来他派了别人，不是我。 问：我们再试一次这个问题。他让你搬到阿布扎比，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你没有去，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：你说不，对吗？ 答：不对。 问：你说不之后，他派了别人，对吗？ 答：我没有说不。我说我准备去，但最后他派了别人而不是我。 问：你记得和这些检察官会面并讨论这个话题吗？你和检察官讨论过这个话题，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在会面时告诉这些检察官，你从未对郭先生说过去阿布扎比的事，对吗？ 答：不，我没说过。 问：然后你告诉这些检察官你因为家庭原因不想去，对吗？ 答：不，我没说过。 问：这就是你没有去的原因，对吗？ 答：不。 施洛夫律师说：请稍等，法官大人。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第19/页 问：你记得告诉这些检察官你实际上不能去阿布扎比，因为你在澳大利亚有家庭，对吗？ 费根森律师说：已经问过并回答过，法官大人。 法官说：支持。 问：你后来告诉他们，你被要求永久去那里，而你说不，对吗？ 法官说：支持。 问：根据你的说法，郭文贵的直播带你找到了普衡，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对，问题形式不当。 法官说：你指的是什么带你找到？ 施洛夫律师说：我可以重新表述。我在试图推进。 问：你找到了普衡的受托人，对吗？ 答：不是我，是郭文贵说的。 问：没有郭文贵，你不会知道那个受托人在哪，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以是郭文贵告诉你受托人在哪，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后你自己联系了受托人，对吗？ 答：那是在我醒悟之后。 问：哦，是的。你醒悟了，然后去找了受托人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：对。但是你找到受托人的唯一原因是因为他告诉你受托人在哪，对吗？ 费根森律师说：已经问过并回答过。 法官说：支持。 施洛夫律师说：我认为没有得到答案。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第20/页 问：然后你自己联系了受托人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你没有告诉郭先生我要联系受托人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后你和那个受托人谈话，没有让任何人知道，对吗？ 法官说：她不可能证明别人知道什么。她只能证明她知道的事情。 问：当你联系受托人时，喜马拉雅联盟的任何人都没有直播你在和受托人联系，对吗？ 答：我不明白。对不起。 问：在2023年8月，你联系了受托人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你没有告诉郭文贵，对吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，我们已经讨论过这个问题。 答：是的。 问：你没有告诉长岛伟哥你在联系受托人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你告诉了长岛伟哥？ 答：我不能告诉任何联盟的人。 问：没错。你没有告诉任何人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你开始与受托人在2023年8月交谈，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：现在，你昨天作证谈到了社交媒体，对吗？ 答：哪个社交媒体？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第21/页 问：你作证谈到了郭先生的油管账户，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你特别作证说油管暂停了他的直播能力，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：由于他们暂停了他的直播权限，所以他不能直播，对吗？ 答：他开始在其他平台上直播。 问：对，那是GTV，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：是哪个平台？ 答：推特、Instagram、livestream然后是郭媒体。 问：由于他在直播中遇到问题，他才想到创建GTV，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。 法官说：她不能作证另一个人在想什么。 问：他在直播中告诉了你他的想法，对吗？ 费根森律师说：他告诉了她一些事情。我不知道她是否能读懂他的心思，法官大人。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。他在直播中说了他在想什么吗？ 答：他说他想建立一个媒体平台。 问：请使用那个麦克风，这样我们都能听到你。 答：他说他要建立一个像油管、推特那样的媒体平台。 问：他说他想建立一个媒体平台？ 答：他会。 问：好的。他在直播中告诉大家，建立这个平台需要时间，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第22/页 问：他告诉你这个平台必须要……不对，他在直播中告诉人们，这个平台必须不容易受到中 共破坏企图的影响，对吗？ 费根森律师说：我以传闻为由反对，法官大人。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：你能再说一遍吗？对不起。 问：你第一次听说GTV是在2020年4月，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：郭先生在直播中宣布了它，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他宣布他想创建一个平台来直播，对吗？ 答：不，四月他说这是GTV的私募。那时GTV已经存在。 问：他说他想让它像推特或脸书，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他在直播中告诉大家这是因为油管暂停了他的能力，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：他还说，他要建立一个没有审查的平台，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对，法官大人。这涉及到其真实性的问题。 法官说：请上前来。 （边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我很确定这个记录在证据中。他们已经提交了。 法官说：所以你是以传闻为由反对？ 费根森律师说：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第23/页 施洛夫律师说：基于在证据中的记录。 费根森律师说：你想通过记录，那没问题。 施洛夫律师说：我们会在这里待一整天。 费根森律师说：我们当然不希望那样。我们只是担心将这些问题扩展到他的心态目 的，变成了“他说了这个”，“他说了那个”。他们在交叉询问中作证，有些酌情权。 卡马拉珠律师说：法官大人，他们提交了记录，没有要求任何限制性指令。 费根森律师说：因为我们有权这样做。 卡马拉珠律师说：一旦你提交了，我们有权引用它。 芬克律师：是哪一份记录？ 卡马拉珠律师说：2020年4月的记录。 施洛夫律师说：你们想让我们通读整份记录吗？我们很乐意大声读出来，整份记 录。 费根森律师说：我们希望有一个高效的审问。我不想让这个边栏时间更长。郭说的 话以这种方式不断涌入的问题，在某个时候会有一个界限。 卡马拉珠律师说：我试图理解这个反对。我们不被允许引用已经提交到证据 中的记录的一部分吗？ 芬克律师：除非你用你客户的陈述来作证，就好像他在说话一样。如果你想 提供他的陈述来说明他的心态。心态例外是我感到害怕。我感到这样。 施洛夫律师说：它在证据中。我可以让她读整个记录。 芬克律师：请不要对我喊叫。 施洛夫律师说：这是联邦证据规则。 法官说：这是我的裁决。郭先生需要有机会提出辩护，这些陈述将，用一位杰出法学 家的话来说，以它们的价值来进入证据。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第24/页 （回到公开法庭） 法官说：你可以继续了。 施洛夫律师问：李女士，你在直接询问中作证说郭先生，按照你的说法，谈到了用以 色列技术来创建这个平台，记得吗？ 答：是的。 问：你说你为郭文贵工作时，帮助他寻找这样的IT专家，对吗？ 答：不是这种以色列技术。那都是支持者提供的。 问：但是你帮助刊登了招聘IT经验人员的广告，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道他在寻找工程师来构建这个平台，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道他在面试人选来构建这个平台，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道他想找到最合格的人来构建这个平台，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：你刊登了广告，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你希望有合适的候选人申请这个职位，对吗？ 答：是的。所有的简历，我都发送给—— 问：对不起，我没有提问。 答：所有的简历—— 法官说：目前没有提问。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第25/页 问：你是想告诉我你把所有的简历都发送给郭文贵？ 答：是的。 问：好的。你收到多少份简历？ 答：很多。 问：很多，对，因为这是一个真实的招聘广告，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他审查了所有这些简历，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：现在，你还在直接询问中作证说你想投资GTV，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你想投资，但你的投资是和其他人一起的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你的投资和其他人一起。你记得有多少人吗？ 答：大约五个人。 问：五个人，对吗？ 答：嗯嗯。 问：是五个人加上你，还是包括你在内的五个人？ 答：五个人加上我。 问：你把投资放在你的名字下，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你的名字，你的个人名字，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：尽管这是一个集资投资，你还是决定放在你的名字下？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第26/页 答：大家都决定。 问：哦，大家都决定放在你的名字下？ 答：是的。 问：好的。你这样做是因为你昨天多次作证说你信任郭文贵，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对，这种说法有误导性。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：是的。 问：当你与这些检察官会面时，你告诉他们你是一个谨慎的投资者，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你告诉他们你认为这个平台在他们推翻中共后会真正成功，对吗？ 答：郭文贵这样说，我相信。 问：所以你相信这个平台在推翻中共后会最成功，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：郭文贵也这么认为，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。 法官说：她不能作证他在想什么或相信什么。支持。 问：让我给你看一下在证据中的文件，也许我直接展示记录而不是视频，是GX26-T。女士， 你记得这个文件吗？ 答：是的。 问：不是这个翻译，但你和你的志愿翻译们翻译了这个证物所基于的视频，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：好吧，让我们看看第二页，上面写着，请仔细阅读。你看到那句话了吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第27/页 答：是的。 问：它说什么，女士？ 答：请仔细阅读所有要签署的投资文件。 问：这是郭文贵在直播中说的，对吗？ 答：不，是在私人视频中。 问：在私人视频中？ 答：是的。 问：但是你做了郭文贵要求你做的一切，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他要求你仔细阅读所有文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你可以把那放下了。现在让我们看看政府证物K5。你认得这个文件吗，李女士？ 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：可以让陪审团看一下吗？ 问：我们能看到资金使用图表吗？ 费根森律师向你展示了这页，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他问你，这个图表是否显示GTV的资金会进入对冲基金，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你说它没有，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你收到了这个文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第28/页 问：你从未读过它，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以无论它说什么—— 答：那时候我没有读，是的。 问：那时候你没有读它，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在没有阅读它的情况下投资了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是因为郭文贵说的，对吗？ 法官说：你是在问郭文贵说她应该在不阅读的情况下投资吗？ 施洛夫律师说：我收回这个问题，法官大人。 问：你投资时没有读过这个文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以如果这个文件说百分之百的资金会进入对冲基金，你不会知道，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：因为你从未读过它？ 答：是的。 问：让我们看看政府证物165——65，我想。对不起，是65。你作证过这个文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：女士，你的证词是你也从未读过这个文件吗？ 答：在我签名之前没有。 问：我听不见你说什么。 答：在签名之前没有。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审���录 第29/页 问：在签名之前，你没有读它？ 答：是的。 问：看看这页的顶部。 答：是的。 问：你看到有些地方是红色的吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道那是什么吗？ 答：那是一些更新。 问：所以这是一个带有修订痕迹的文件，对吗？ 答：对不起。 问：它显示了变更，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我可以看下一页吗？你看到顶部又有一个标记吗？ 答：是的。 问：那对你意味着什么？ 答：有一些变更。 问：所以当你看这个文件时，因为有这些变更，你知道它是一个草稿，对吗？ 答：这不是草稿。 问：这不是草稿？ 答：不是。 问：所以这些在跟踪修订中标记的变更并没有告诉你这是一个草稿？ 答：不是。这是我签署的版本。 问：我没问你是否签署了它。签署草稿版本是可能的，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第30/页 答：不是。 问：你说你从未看过任何东西，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。她没这么说。 问：你从未读过任何东西，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以你不知道这是草稿吗？ 答：但是我们被告知要签署它。 问：我不明白。有人告诉你签署草稿吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。 答：我不知道它是不是草稿，但对我来说它是最终版本，因为他们要我签署它。 问：他们是谁？ 答：联盟。 问：联盟要求你签署它？ 答：是的。 问：联盟里有多少人？ 答：我不知道。 问：有多少人打电话告诉你签署这个文件？ 答：这是新GTV平台的客户服务团队。 问：但客户服务团队是为了解决客户相关问题的，对吗？ 答：不是，他们给我们发合同，通过电子邮件发送给我们。 问：对，他们给你发了电子邮件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：就像Netflix给你发电子邮件一样。你可以打开它或忽略它，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第31/页 费根森律师说：反对。 答：不是。 法官说：反对无效。 问：不是？如果他们给你发电子邮件，你必须打开吗？ 答：是的，因为我们被告知那是新的GTV合同。我们需要签署。 问：但是没有电子邮件说你需要签名，对吗？李女士，让我换种方式问。你下载了你的电子 邮件，并将其中一些交给了检察官，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你给了他们很多文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你从来没有给他们任何来自联盟的文件，告诉你必须签署这份文件，对吗？我们来看一 下文件的底部吧。他们有没有告诉你必须电子签名，还是必须打印出来手动签名？ 答：两者都需要，你需要签名并以大写字母书写你的名字。 问：那不是我的问题。 答：请重复你的问题。 问：你说你必须签署它，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：联盟告诉你，你必须签署它，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：没有来自联盟的电子邮件说你必须签署它，对吗？ 答：在郭文贵的直播中，他说有一个新的GTV会取代旧的GTV，所以如果你投资了旧的GTV ，所有人都需要签署。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，这个回答没有直接回答问题，请求删除。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第32/页 法官说：反对无效。你可以继续。 问：所以现在不再是联盟，而是郭文贵的直播？ 答：联盟听从郭文贵的指示。 问：但是之前你告诉我是联盟告诉你必须签署的？ 答：是的。 问：那么是谁从联盟告诉你的？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，我们已经讨论过这个问题了。 施洛夫律师说：我会继续。 问：我可以回到文件的顶部吗。这是你在直接询问中作证的文件，对吗，何先生被确认为董 事，对吗？ 答：谁？对不起。 费根森律师说：误导证词，法官大人。 法官说：支持。 问：何先生在这个文件中被确认为董事吗？ 答：对不起，谁？ 问：何先生。 答：何？ 问：H-O-A-R-A-N。他在这个文件中被确认为董事吗？ 答：在这个文件中没有。 问：好的。那么让我给你看一下作为证据的GXVI-34和35。如果可以的话，我们把它们并排 展示给陪审团。李女士，你在直接接受费根森先生询问时，谈到了这两份文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在你作证之前，你和费根森先生一起审阅了这些文件，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第33/页 答：是的。 问：在他为你的证词做准备时，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：左边的文件，对吗，底部写着34的那个，你看到这是附有文件135的电子邮件，对吗？ 答：哪个？ 问：我听不见你说什么。 答：哪个部分？你在说哪个部分？ 问：我在说哪一部分？左边是你收到的电子邮件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在这个电子邮件往来中，右边的文件是附件，对吗？这是电子邮件的附件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你收到了那封电子邮件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我们知道这一点，因为电子邮件地址显示是L-A-N，M-U，这是你在线名字木兰的开头， 对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是来自律师的文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你可以看到底部显示这是来自律师的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以我们可以往下滚动，确保——你从律师那里收到了这封电子邮件，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第34/页 问：右边是附加的文件，对吗？那么，如果我们可以看一下你收到的附件，它是在右边，对 吗？ 答：是的。 问：你收到了它，因为你打开了这封电子邮件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你看的那份文件，对吗，就是作为证据的35号文件，对吗—— 答：是的。 问：——是确认浩然为唯一董事的FMV决议，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以我们看看。你收到了电子邮件，你打开了附件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后让我们在右边向下滚动，一直到文件底部，整个35号文件。看到吗，就在这里写着， 唯一的董事是谁，何浩然，对吗？ 答：浩然。 问：这里，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他的职称是什么？ 答：唯一董事。 问：你收到了附件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：现在，你是说你从未查看过这个附件，是因为郭文贵告诉你不要看，还是你查看过这个 附件？ 答：我看了，因为这个律师要求我签署。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第35/页 问：所以你读了它，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：当你读它的时候，你知道唯一的董事是谁，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他是谁的唯一董事？是FMV，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这个文件是在2022年9月10日发送给你的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是在政府向你出示的FMV机密发售备忘录之后的七个月，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你可以把它放下了。谢谢。请给我政府证物135。 费根森律师说：这是VI-135吗？我不确定是哪个135。 问：女士，你看到这个文件了吗？ 答：是的。 问：你看到那一部分写着 "特此决议"吗？ 答：是的。 问：我们能为她突出显示这部分吗？这个文件决议了一人被撤销公司授权代表的职务，对 吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后由另一个人代替，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是谁？郝甜，她是谁？ 答：郝甜是郭文贵的支持者之一。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第36/页 问：是男是女？ 答：女的。 问：你知道她在哪里工作吗？ 答：在纽约。 问：你和她一起工作过吗，女士？ 答：没有。 问：你和她有过互动吗？ 答：是的。 问：你和她相处得不好，对吗？ 答：不，我们相处得很好。 问：你和她相处得很好？让我展示标记为6051的证物。 答：是的。 问：那是谁？ 答：郝甜。 问：你的证词是你和她相处得很好，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：她被任命为代表，对吗？ 答：对不起。 问：我刚才给你看的文件中，她被指定为代表，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你读过那个文件吗？ 答：我只是想找到我签名的地方，看看哪里有我的名字可以签名。 问：你的名字不在上面，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第37/页 答：是的。 问：你没有签那个文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：但是你读过它，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我们可以放下这个。让我继续问你关于G Fashion的事情，好吗？ 答：好的。 问：G Fashion在2024年有一个正在运行的网站，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在2024年查看过它，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你现在还查看G Fashion的网站吗？ 答：现在不看了。 问：所以在2024年的某个时候你查看过，但现在不看了？ 答：是的。 问：你知道G Fashion曾在洛杉矶有一个办公室，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：从洛杉矶他们搬到了纽约，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后从纽约搬到了意大利米兰，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：现在G Fashion是由你之前作证提到的Lei Ann Li管理，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第38/页 问：它现在仍然是一家运作中的公司，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：你不知道？ 答：我不知道。 问：你最后一次查看他们网站是什么时候？ 费根森律师说：已问过并回答过。 法官说：支持。 答：我不知道。 问：让我问你关于新中国联邦的事情，好吗？ 答：好的。 问：你记得在直接询问中作证时说过郭先生宣布了新中国联邦，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：还有其他人参与了这个宣布，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你看了这个宣布，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你对这个宣布非常兴奋，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：因为根据你的说法，当时你相信郭文贵，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你现在不再相信他了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：宣布的时候班农先生在场，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第39/页 答：是的。 问：有一个叫海东的人也参与了宣布，对吗？记得那个中国的足球运动员吗？ 答：我不知道你在说谁。 问：对不起，显然我搞错了他的名字。让我展示辩方证物6512。你看到那张照片了吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是谁？ 答：海东。 问：然后他是谁？ 答：他是郭文贵的支持者之一，也曾是法治基金的主席。 问：他也是中国的著名足球运动员，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他参加过中国的奥运会，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我请求将其作为证据。 法官说：没有反对吗？ 费根森律师说：没有反对。 法官说：准许。 （辩方证物6512被接受为证据） 由辩方施洛夫律师提问： 问：他也是这个宣布的一部分，对吗？ 答：不，他只是读了声明。 问：请允许我向陪审团公开这份证据。他宣读了一份支持新中国联邦的声明，对吗？ 答：对不起。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第40/页 问：他在6月4日发表了一份支持新中国联邦的声明，对吗？ 答：不是他发表的。他只是读了声明。 问：告诉我有什么区别？ 答：这不是他写的声明。他只是读了它。 问：你怎么知道他没有写声明？ 答：因为我知道是我们准备的，我们组的成员准备的。 问：是你们的运动，你们的运动准备了他的声明吗？ 答：是的。所以其他支持者起草了这份声明，我们准备好后将副本发送给他。在6月4日那天 ，他宣读了这份声明。 问：对。他做了他的修改，然后读了声明？ 答：没有修改。 费根森律师说：反对问题的形式。 法官说：反对无效。 问：他现在住在哪里，在西班牙，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他仍然是郭文贵的支持者，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他发表了支持新中国联邦的讲话，对吗？ 法官说：支持异议。 施洛夫律师说：我换个问题，法官大人。你可以把它拿下来。谢谢。 问：现在，李女士，新中国联邦是中国新型政府的一个概念，这样说公平吗？ 答：请再说一遍。 问：新中国联邦是一个中国新型政府的概念，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译���供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第41/页 答：当时我认为是。当时我认为是。 问：所以根据你今天的说法，新中国联邦不再是一个概念，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：它不是一个概念？ 答：它是一个骗局。 问：根据你的说法它是一个骗局，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以如果有人相信会有新中国联邦，那他就是被欺骗了，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。 法官说：支持异议。 问：中国新联邦国这个概念是为了在中国推动民主，对吗？这就是目标，对吗？ 答：我们当时是这么想的。 问：不，是你这么想的。你不能代表别人的想法，对吗？ 答：当时我以为。 问：是你这么想的。对吧。你不知道这里的任何人是怎么想的，对吗？ 费根森律师说：对不起，法官大人。她可以回答这个问题吗？ 法官说：律师，我们的问题是针对她的，不是针对旁听席的。 问：我在问她。你不知道其他人对新中国联邦的看法，只知道你自己的想法，对吗？ 答：所有他的支持者都这么想，这么认为。 问：什么想法？你的想法还是他的想法？ 答：郭文贵关于中国新联邦国说的想法。 问：对。但是你只能作证你自己的想法？ 答：当时我相信他。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第42/页 问：女士，你已经说过很多次了。 费根森律师说：法官大人，反对这段评论。 法官说：请不要作证。 问：李女士，你知道其他人对新中国联邦的看法吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，我们能继续吗？ 法官说：其他人。你指的是谁？ 问：李女士，你只能说你对新中国联邦的看法，而不是其他人的看法，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。我们已经讨论过这个问题。问过并回答过。 法官说：问过并回答过。支持。 问：你加入了一个农场，对吗？ 答：我认为是郭文贵选我做农场负责人。 问：女士，我真的听不见你说什么。 答：郭文贵选我做农场负责人。 问：对。但是在他选择你成为农场负责人之前，你是农场的一员，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：你不是翻译组农场的一员吗？ 答：那不是农场。 问：只是一个组？ 答：是的。 问：所以郭文贵让你去做农场负责人，即使你不是农场的一员。这是你的证词？ 答：是的。 问：哪个农场？ 答：澳大利亚农场。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第43/页 问：哪个澳大利亚农场，喜马拉雅澳大利亚农场？ 答：是的。 问：你加入了那个农场，对吗，2020年，你记得吗？ 答：是的。 问：那个农场在悉尼，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你离开了那个农场，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你离开那个农场去成立你自己的农场，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你想成立你自己的农场，对吗？ 答：对不起。 问：你想成立你自己的农场，对吗？ 答：不，是郭文贵让我这样做的。 问：郭文贵让你在澳大利亚悉尼建立一个新的农场？ 答：是的。 问：你完全按照郭文贵说的去做了。你建立了一个农场，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那个农场叫做雅典娜农场，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：按照你的说法，肯定是郭文贵告诉你把它叫做雅典娜农场，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。 法官说：支持异议。请直接提问。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第44/页 问：是谁选择了这个名字？ 答：我选的名字，并且得到了郭文贵的批准。 问：所以是你选的名字，他批准了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：根据你的说法，如果他不喜欢这个名字，你会改掉这个名字，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是在2021年2月，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你不记得你成立农场的时间？ 答：在2021年。 问：如果有追随者想加入你的农场，他可以加入，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：如果他们想离开你的农场，他们也可以离开，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他们可以从你的农场去到其他农场，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：人们可以自由流动，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你没有阻止他们，对吗？ 答：阻止什么？ 问：你没有阻止追随者离开你的农场，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：是的，你阻止他们，还是你允许他们离开？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第45/页 答：我不阻止他们。 问：你没有阻止他们，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：现在，你作证时提到翻译组。你曾经管理过大约一百人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在这百人中，当他们想离开你或你的团队时，他们也可以离开，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你也没有阻止他们，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：因为他们都是志愿者？ 答：是的。 问：昨天在某个时候你作证提到过一个叫黑名单的东西，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你作证说如果你批评郭文贵，你就会上黑名单，对吗？ 答：抱歉。 问：你在直接询问中作证说，如果你敢批评郭文贵，你就会被列入黑名单，对吗？ 答：郭文贵会告诉我们谁会被列入黑名单。 问：郭文贵决定谁被列入黑名单？ 答：是的。 问：他把这个黑名单传给你，对吗？这个黑名单上有多少人？ 答：我不知道。 问：十个人，三十个人，一百个人？ 答：超过十个。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第46/页 问：少于一百个？ 答：我不记得了。 问：从未有人传过黑名单，对吗？ 答：在Gettr上。 问：在Gettr上发布了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：但那不是黑名单，那是你使用的名字，对吗？ 答：不，那是黑名单账户。 问：这是一个黑名单账户？ 答：是的，人人都可以看到。它是公开的。 问：那个账户，任何人都可以放入一个名字，对吗？任何人都可以把名字放到那个黑名单上 ，对吗？ 答：不。 问：不？ 答：只有得到郭文贵的批准。 问：女士，我没有问你是否得到郭文贵的批准。我问你是否任何人都可以把名字放到那个名 单上？ 费根森律师说：反对评论。 法官说：你是在问是否任何人都可以添加名字到那个名单上吗？ 施洛夫律师说：是的。 法官说：你可以回答这个问题。 答：不，不是任何人。 问：不是任何人？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第47/页 答：是的。 问：你的证词是只有郭文贵运行那个Gettr账户来添加名字？ 费根森律师说：已经问过并回答过。 法官说：反对无效。 答：你能再说一遍吗。 问：你的证词是只有郭文贵可以在Gettr账户上添加名字到黑名单上；这是你的证词吗？ 答：得到郭文贵的批准。 问：女士，你明白做某事和批准某事的区别，两者是不同的，对吗？ 答：联盟会添加。 问：我的问题是，其他人被允许并且确实在Gettr上的任何名单上添加名字，对吗？ 答：联盟有负责的人。有人负责—— 问：对。 答：——这个黑名单。 问：不仅仅是郭文贵，对吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，她不能完成她的回答。 施洛夫律师说：说实话，我听不见她。我不知道她什么时候结束。 法官说：请大声说话。 答：联盟中负责黑名单的人会在这个Gettr账户上发布。 问：Gettr就像推特，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：人们会发布信息，对吗，就像在推特上一样，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：人们会回应，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第48/页 答：是的。 问：你从未从郭文贵那里得到任何实际的黑名单，对吗？在你的Whatsapp消息组中，郭文 贵从未给你发送过一个名单，说这是我的黑名单，对吗？ 答：他会说—— 问：听问题。 答：他会说把这个人放入黑名单。 问：我的问题是——让我再试一次——郭先生从未给你发送过一个名单，说这些是我的黑 名单上的名字，对吗？ 费根森律师说：她已经回答了这个问题，法官大人。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：请再说一遍。 问：好吧，让我们再试一次。他在Whatsapp群组中给你发送了很多文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他给你发送了需要翻译的文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：需要阅读的文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他从未给你发送过一个叫做黑名单的文件，对吗？ 答：他发送了黑名单上的名字。 问：只是一个名字？ 答：不止一个。任何他认为应该进入黑名单的人，他都会发送他们的名字。 问：好吧。所以在某一天，他会说这个人应该上黑名单，因为他批评了联盟；你是这么说的 吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第49/页 答：是的。 问：但是他从未给你发送过一个名单，对吗？ 答：发过。 问：发过，是吗？ 答：没发过。 问：好吧。这就是我问的全部。你还在直接询问中对抗议活动作了证，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你作证说你自己没有亲自参加任何抗议活动，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你从未去过，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你从未去过，因为你从未想让任何人知道你的脸，对吗？是或不是？ 答：不是。 施洛夫律师问：你昨天被问及的抗议活动发生在美国，对吗？ 答：对不起？你指的是哪个抗议活动？ 问：女士，你昨天作证提到的抗议活动。你记得吗？ 答：我们提到了很多抗议活动。 问：昨天提到很多抗议活动？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。让我们从他们向你展示照片的那次抗议活动开始，好吗？我会给你展示照片。 施洛夫律师说：我们可以给她展示这个证物吗？我要开始了。 问：你昨天谈到了两个抗议活动，对吗？你记得吗，还是不记得？ 答：不，超过两个。很多。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第50/页 问：对不起？ 答：很多，不止两个。 问：你说有很多抗议活动，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后你特别谈到了其中两个。你记得吗？ 答：哪一个？ 问：你昨天在直接作证中谈到一个抗议活动，人们互相打脸，对吗？你记得吗？ 答：是的。 问：你记得你说有人被打了眼睛，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后你在直接问询的证词中说郭文贵说，“干得好”，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：关于那次打架的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。你没有参加这些抗议活动，对吗，因为你在澳大利亚，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你和你的丈夫和女儿在一起，对吗？ 答：不是。我们在看直播。 问：好吧。但你在看那个抗议活动的直播，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。你关注了那个直播账号，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。你在观看抗议活动的直播，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第51/页 答：是的。 问：因为你当时是那个抗议活动的一部分，对吗？ 答：我不是那个抗议活动的一部分。 问：但是你在观看它，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：通过观看它，你支持它，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以你是抗议活动的一部分？如果你不支持某事，你不会看它，对吗，女士？ 答：我看它是因为是联盟的直播。 问：但联盟并不知道你在澳大利亚的家里在做什么，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对，相关性。 法官说：反对有效。 问：没有人强迫你看这个直播，对吗？你在澳大利亚的家里？ 费根森律师说：反对，问题形式。 法官说：反对有效。 问：你是在哪里看的这个直播？ 答：在澳大利亚。 问：澳大利亚哪里？ 费根森律师说：反对，询问她住在哪里，法官大人。 法官说：我们不需要具体的细节。 问：女士，没有人在问地址，只是问哪里。 答：在澳大利亚。 费根森律师说：法官大人，这在澳大利亚的哪里有什么关系？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第52/页 法官说：你是在家里吗？ 证人：我不记得了。 问：好吧，但你记得看了抗议活动，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你看到了抗议活动中的暴力行为，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在看到暴力之后仍然继续看更多的抗议活动，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。所以即使抗议活动是暴力的，你仍然继续关注，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。这些抗议活动发生在美国，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。作为这些抗议活动的结果，你记得法治基金采取了一些措施，对吗？让我看看 ——你记得还是不记得？ 答：你能再说一遍吗？法治基金怎么？ 问：采取了一些措施，对吗？他们做了一些事情以确保这种情况不再发生，对吗？你记得 吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：好吧。让我给你看一些可能会刷新你记忆的东西。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我可以上前吗？ 法官说：可以。 施洛夫律师说：你能把它展示给她看吗，实际上。是DX 60511。 问：请你看看这个文件。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第53/页 答：好的。 施洛夫律师说：如果我能——陪审团没有看到它，对吗？好。 问：如果你能看看顶部，第四和第五行。它从“如果你”这句话开始。 答：对不起。我听不见。哪一行？ 问：他们会给你突出显示的，那里写着，“如果你”。这是第二段的第二行末尾，在右侧。 答：好的。 问：好吧。现在你认出这个文件了吗，文件顶部的标志？ 答：我不记得了。 问：我没问你是否记得。我问你是否认出。你认出这个文件了吗，顶部的标志？ 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：好。你能给她看一下文件底部吗？ 好。在那之前。 答：是的。 问：好。你看到签名块了吗？ 答：是的。 问：你认出这个文件了吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：我知道你不记得了。我的问题是：你认出它吗？ 答：我认不出。 问：好。这份文件是否帮助你记起法治基金发出了一份备忘录，说“如果你进行示威——” 费根森律师说：她不能读不在证据中的文件，法官大人。 法官说：支持。 问：这是否让你想起了法治基金曾对抗议活动中的暴力事件采取过一些措施？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第54/页 费根森律师说：反对。 施洛夫律师说：那是—— 法官说：我允许问这个问题。 问：这份文件，你眼前的这段话，是否让你回忆起，法治基金采取了一些措施以确保抗议活 动中不再有暴力行为？这是否刷新了你的记忆？ 答：是的。 问：好的。所以有了暴力行为，然后法治基金说，你不能再这样做了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：按照你的说法，是郭文贵管理法治基金，对吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，我认为我们可以把文件放下了。她可能认为她被问到的是 文件。 法官说：你用完这个文件了吗？ 施洛夫律师说：我很乐意把它拿下来。 问：按照你的说法，是郭文贵管理法治基金，对吗？ 答：他告诉我们在法治基金的一些问题上该怎么做。 问：好吧。所以他告诉你要确保停止抗议活动中的暴力行为，对吗？ 答：我不知道“管理”是什么意思。 问：对不起？ 答：我不——我不确定“管理”法治基金是什么意思。你说的“管理”是什么意思？ 问：你说他负责法治基金，对吗？ 答：我没说过。 问：你说他任命你为董事，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第55/页 问：你说每个人都只听郭文贵的话，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：人们只做郭文贵告诉他们做的事情，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以当郭文贵说停止暴力时，大家都停止了暴力，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。 法官说：反对无效。 问：是还是不是？ 答：这——这不是郭文贵说的。 问：所以这次不是郭文贵说的。 答：这是文件说的。 问：对不起？ 答：文件说的。 问：但是这个文件是法治基金的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：根据你昨天的证词，他能够在法治基金做任何他想做的事情。 答：但我不知道这个文件。 问：好吧，我们继续。让我把你的注意力转移到你昨天作证的SEC的抗议活动上，好吗？记 得吗？ 答：是的。 问：那也是因为郭文贵，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第56/页 答：是的。 问：你说当时你相信SEC被中共渗透了，对吗？ 答：是的，那是郭文贵说的。 问：对。你只因为郭文贵说了，你才相信，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。你是否理解郭文贵自己也相信SEC被中共渗透了？ 答：对不起，请再说一遍？ 问：你是否理解郭文贵自己相信SEC被中共渗透了？ 费根森律师说：反对。听起来像是她在作证。 法官说：你是问她是否相信郭先生相信中共渗透了SEC吗？ 施洛夫律师说：我是问她的理解，是的，法官大人，正是如此。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：我相信。 问：好的。他在直播中说他实际上是中共的目标，对吗？ 答：关于——我不确定你说的是什么事情。 问：他在直播中说他是布罗伊迪的目标，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他在直播中说他是George Higginbotham的目标，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他在直播中说他是美国政府的目标，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他还说这是因为像布罗伊迪和Higginbotham这样的人正在为中共工作，并试图通过美 国来伤害他，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第57/页 答：我不知道。 问：但你看了他说这些话的直播，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道George Higginbotham因为做这些事被判有罪，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：你——你不知道？ 答：我不知道。 问：好吧。你知道他因充当中国代理人被判有罪吗？ 答：那是郭文贵说的。 问：好吧。郭文贵说Higginbotham试图让特朗普把他送回中国，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他说了，你听到了，你相信了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道George Higginbotham是谁吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：你知道布罗伊迪是谁吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：好吧。你多次谈到这个叫做联盟的概念，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：联盟开会，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这些会议在哪里开？ 答：哪里？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第58/页 问：是的。 答：在线上。 问：在线上。用什么方格式？我要会重新措辞这个问题。那可能对你来说是个困难的问 题。会议是如何进行的，用WebEx，Zoom，哪个？ 答：WebEx。 问：用WebEx，对吗？你在从澳大利亚参与这些会议，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：人们担心这些会议可能会被黑客攻击，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：好吧。那么当你参加那些会议时，你有没有露面，还是用电影里的木兰头像？ 答：是的，没有露面。 问：所以你用了电影中的木兰头像，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：当大家在WebEx上参加会议时，你的头像就是木兰的头像，对吗？ 答：每个人都是这样的。 问：不，郭文贵不是这样的，对吗？每个人—— 答：除了郭文贵。 问：那长岛伟哥呢？ 答：有时候。 问：有时候，对吗？不是每次都这样，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：有人会露脸，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第59/页 问：Sara Wei会露脸，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的，所以不是所有人都用头像，对吗？我们继续。喜马拉雅联盟有开会，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所有的领导都会参加会议，如果他们能来的话，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这些会议上，会讨论联盟接下来的行动，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：人们会对这些问题进行投票，对吗？ 答：不会。 问：没有投票？ 答：没有。 问：那么如果有五个人想做某事，而六个人不想做，会发生什么？ 答：郭文贵决定。 问：但是郭文贵并不是每次都在会议上。 答：最终决定是郭文贵做的。 问：所以—— 答：我们会向郭文贵汇报。 问：对不起？ 答：我们会向郭文贵汇报。 问：即使所有人都一致同意做某事，你们还是会向郭文贵汇报；这是你的证词吗？ 答：抱歉，你能重新说一遍吗？ 问：如果每个人都同意某事，即便每个人都同意，你还是会去找郭文贵；这是你的证词吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第60/页 答：是的。 问：好吧。 答：最终决定由郭文贵批准。 问：好吧，我明白郭文贵批准。你一直在说这个。我的问题是：联盟内部有没有决策过程？ 答：没有。 问：好吧。所以没有决策过程，郭文贵决定一切，但联盟领导会开长时间的会议，只是为了 向郭文贵汇报信息？ 费根森律师说：反对问题形式。她在作证。 法官说：反对有效。 问：所有的农场负责人都参加了这些会议，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：会议期间讨论了农场借款计划，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他们讨论了这个计划的内容，对吗？ 答：对不起？ 问：他们讨论了——农场负责人讨论了这个计划，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：农场负责人讨论了多少次农场借款计划？ 答：我不记得了。 问：五次？ 答：我不记得了。 问：郭文贵并不是每次都在那些会议上，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第61/页 问：好吧。你记得有哪次会议上郭文贵在场吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。当郭文贵在场时——如果我说错了请纠正我——所有的农场负责人和郭先生互 相交谈，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你是这个小组的一部分，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：有时候你希望他做某事，或者你希望小组做某事，而其他人说不，对吗？你希望为你的 农场争取更多的钱，而其他人说不，对吗？ 答：不，从没有。 问：不，从没有？没有人对你说不，对吗？ 答：不，我从没有要求过—— 问：你从没有提出过要求？ 答：没有提出过要求。 法官说：你得让她回答。继续。 答：我从没有从我这儿提出过任何要求，没有，从我这儿没有。 问：作为农场负责人，你从来没有在联盟会议上提出过任何要求；这是你的证词吗？ 答：要求什么？ 问：任何事情。你负责一个小组，你有追随者，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：每个农场负责人都有追随者，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：农场负责人在这些会议上代表他们发言，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第62/页 答：是的。 问：那么你的证词是你从没有为你的追随者发声？ 答：不是。 问：不是，这不是你的证词吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：好吧。让我们继续。我们来谈谈你昨天作证的铁血组，好吗？ 答：好的。 问：在某个时候，铁血组大约有20人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后它扩展了，对吗？请你大声点，好吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧，这样陪审团才能听见你。 答：是的。 问：谢谢。 从2021年3月开始，你在那个组里，对吗？ 答：2021年4月。 问：所以你记得不是3月，而是4月，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧，谢谢。 铁血组有开会，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在铁血组里，每个人都有一票，对吗？ 答：不是。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第63/页 问：所以是某人有多于一票，还是没有人有票？ 答：没有票。 问：没有票。 答：我们只是做郭文贵告诉我们的事情。 问：你们只是做郭文贵告诉你们的事情，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：虽然郭文贵会做他想做的事， 但每个人都会开这些很长的会，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对问题形式。 法官说：支持。 问：你们在铁血组里有长时间的会议，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：人们会来参加，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：人们在铁血组的会议上讨论问题，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：人们在会议上提出人事问题，对吗？ 答：什么问题？ 问：人事问题，人力资源问题。 答：是的。 问：事实上，有一个问题是关于你在铁血组里与人相处不和的，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：那么你被铁血组开除了一段时间，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第64/页 答：是的。 问：然后他们让你回来了，对吗？他们给���你一个“冷静期”。 答：是的。 问：好吧。他们给了你一个“冷静期”，因为铁血组的其他人抱怨你，对吗？ 答：不，错了。因为郭文贵在直播中说了些什么，我不同意。 问：所以郭文贵在直播中说了些什么，你不同意？ 答：是的。 问：所以他把你踢出了铁血组，这是你的证词吗？ 答：不，我自己离开的。 问：对不起？ 答：我自己离开的。 问：你从铁血组辞职了。你知道如何从一个他完全控制的组中辞职，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道如何离开，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：事实上，你确实离开了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以当你想离开时，你可以离开，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：没有人强迫你回到铁血组，对吗？ 答：不。 问：好吧。 答：不，对不起。他们—— SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第65/页 问：好吧。 答：他们把我加回去了。 问：他们把你加回去了？你可以说不，对吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，证人说的是“加”而不是“问”。 法官说：抱歉，你说了什么？你是说他们问吗？ 证人：把我加回组。他们加了我， 郭文贵把我加回组。 施洛夫律师问：他们把你加回去了？你可以说不，对吗，就像你第一次离开时说不一 样？你可以换电话号码，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你可以离开，不在你的iPhone上下载WhatsApp应用程序，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你可以简单地滑动并删除手机上的WhatsApp，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。现在让我们谈谈你昨天作证的退款问题，好吗？你记得吗？ 答：是的。 问：你作证说农场上的人们想要退款，对吗？ 在你的农场上，有一个人想要G-Clubs的退款，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你决定，即使郭文贵说不，你还是给他退款了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你认为这不一样，因为他是你的追随者，对吗？ 答：不是我的追随者，因为他贡献很多。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第66/页 问：据你所说，他贡献很多，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你想确保他没事，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：即使郭文贵告诉你不行，你也想确保他没事，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你还是这么做了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以你能够做郭文贵告诉你不要做的事情，对吗？ 答：这取决于情况。 问：取决于情况，对吗？现在让我们谈谈你获得的钱，好吗？你作证说在2021年7月 ，联盟每月支付你一万美元，对吗？ 答：是的。不是联盟，是法治基金。 问：法治基金每月支付你一万美元，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：法治基金支付你一万美元，因为你是铁血组的一部分，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：当你不在铁血组时，你得到五千美元，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：从八月或九月开始——你告诉我，因为我不知道日期——你也从联盟那里得到了报酬； 对吗？ 答：哪一次？什么时间？ 问：2022年九月或八月。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第67/页 答：是的。 问：你得到的是喜币，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：每月1500个喜币，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：其他农场负责人得到的比这少，对吗？ 答：是的，农场负责人和铁血组是不一样的。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我听不清她说的话。抱歉。 答：铁血组是1000个喜币，农场负责人—— 问：我听不清—— 答：铁血组是1000个，其他农场负责人得到500个喜币，农场CEO得到300个喜币。 问：你不是说铁血组得到那些喜币，而是说如果你是铁血组的一员，你会得到那些喜币，对 吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。所以总共，因为你是农场负责人，因为你在铁血组，以及其他你做的事情，你每月 总共得到1500个喜币，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是除了你还得到的一万美元，对吗？ 答：不。 问：你不再从法治基金那里得到一万美元了？ 答：是的，是的。这只是一年。 问：对。一年里你得到了，在那段时间你得到了两者，对吗？ 答：不。只有喜币。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第68/页 问：一年里，法治基金支付你，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。然后喜币支付你，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。根据你的证词，我只是想确保清楚，这两者没有重叠，对吗？ 答：没有，没有重叠。 问：好吧。所以当你得到1500个喜币时，你会立即将其转换为喜美元，对吗？ 答：不。 问：你没有将其转换为喜美元？ 答：不。 问：你对这些喜币做了什么？ 答：只是放在那里，因为那时喜马拉雅交易所不能工作。你无法兑换这些钱。 问：对不起，我听不见你。 答：那时喜马拉雅交易所不能工作；你无法从中兑换这些钱。 问：对。但那是在某个时候。在那之前，你可以兑换，对吗？ 答：不。在我们得到喜币之后。 问：对。 答：喜马拉雅交易所不能兑换这些钱。 问：对。然后在那之后，你可以兑换，对吗？ 答：不。 问：你从来没有兑换过你的喜币，是这样吗？ 答：不。 法官说：你得让我问完，女士。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第69/页 答：直到现在，还是不能。 问：好吧。你不能兑换你的喜币，对吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：法官大人，我们已经讨论过这个问题了。反复问。 法官说：反对有效。 问：女士，我的问题是你是否能够转换，而不是兑换—— 费根森律师说：同样的反对。 法官说：你可以用新的词汇，转换。继续。 问：如果你可以将你的喜币转换为喜美元，你可能这样做，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你确实这么做了，对吗？ 答：我做了一些。 问：你做了一些，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你决定转换多少；这是你的决定，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你不需要就这个问题向郭文贵请示，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：对吗？是的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。 答：郭文贵要求每个农场负责人和铁血组成员必须辞去他们的工作，全职为联盟工作。这就 是我不得不辞去我的工作为联盟工作作为铁血组成员的原因。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第70/页 施洛夫律师说：我申请删除。这没有问题。 但是感谢你提高了音量。 费根森律师说：实际上，这是对询问的回应，法官大人。 施洛夫律师说：没有待问问题。 法官说：回答被删除。 施洛夫律师继续问：有一次你从喜马拉雅交易所取出3万美元，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。然后你把这3万美元存入了你自己的银行账户，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这样做没有问题，因为那是你自己的钱，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在没有郭文贵同意的情况下做出了这个决定，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。喜币本身是在2021年11月推出的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：该币的预售价格是每币10美分，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你能获得的币数量——如果我错了请纠正我，好吗——取决于你对运动的贡献，对吗？ 答：还有你的投资和捐赠，所有一起算。 问：我还没说到那儿，女士。 一个因素是你为运动所做的工作，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：第二个因素是你投资了多少钱，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第71/页 答：是的。 问：第三个因素是你做了什么类型的工作和志愿服务，对吗？ 答：捐赠。 问：好吧，还有捐赠，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。但一个志愿服务30小时的人会比志愿服务100小时的人得到的币少，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：好吧。你能以每币10美分的价格购买价值6000美元的喜币，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。农场本身也收到了喜币，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：他们从来没有收到过——农场负责人没有收到喜币来分发给他们的农场人员？ 答：没有。 问：所以你的证词是，没有战友得到任何分发。 答：那是从法治基金得到的。 问：好吧。 答：农场从法治基金获得补助。 问：对。农场得到了补助，然后他们将其分发给他们农场内的人员，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这由农场负责人来决定，比如你，对吗？ 答：对不起？ 问：这由农场负责人来决定，比如你，对吗？ 答：不。我们是由法治基金批准的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第72/页 问：我明白。但你决定如何分配，对吗？ 答：不。 问：好吧。所以法治基金决定每个战友会得到什么， 这是你的证词吗？ 答：但在农场里，不是我决定的。我们农场有规定，不是我决定的。 问：但你是农场负责人，对吗？ 答：不是我定，他们有一些特定的规则。 问：好吧。告诉我们这些规定。你和谁商量这些规定？ 答：我的农场有组长。我们讨论所有的——所有的规定。 问：好吧。你挑选了组长，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：因为你是领导。 答：是的。 问：对。所以你和你挑选的人讨论这些问题，对吗？ 答：不是我挑选的。有些是自愿成为组长的。 问：对。但是你挑选了哪个志愿者。如果有十个志愿者，而你只能有五个，你挑选了那五个 ，对吗？ 答：不是我挑选的。我接受。 问：所以如果农场里的每个人都想成为你的副手，你会——接受每个人。 答：对不起？你能再说一遍吗？ 问：当然。你是农场负责人？ 答：是的。 问：你挑选谁成为你的组长助手，对吗？你可以选择。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第73/页 答：不是我挑选的。 问：好吧。 答：如果有人愿意担任那个职位，你就接受。 问：对。但是如果有十个人想要一个职位；谁来选择？ 答：从未发生过。 问：没有人自愿；从未有多于一个人自愿担任你组内的任何职位。 答：没有。 费根森律师说：已经问过并回答过了。 法官说：反对无效。 答：没有。 问：好吧。你昨天还作证谈到了G-Clubs和G Fashion，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你作证说G-Clubs会员，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你作证说这使你在G Fashion中享有折扣，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你使用过那个折扣吗？ 答：是的。 问：你喜欢G Fashion吗，还是不喜欢？ 答：以前喜欢，现在不喜欢。 问：好吧，我们明白了。但你以前喜欢它，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。你使用过它吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第74/页 答：是的。 问：你觉得那是给你的一项福利吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。李女士，有没有过某个时候你意识到G-Clubs会员有流程问题？ 答：我不明白。你说的流程问题是什么意思？ 问：有人抱怨说他们申请了G-Clubs，但仍在等待批准，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那主要是因为Crane的问题，对吗？你也作证提到了Crane，对吗？ 答：我不知道原因。 问：我听不见你。 答：我不知道原因。 问：好吧。所以有些事情你确实不知道，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。你在直接证词中还提到了一个叫A-I-A-I的东西，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：A-I-A-I代表什么？ 答：我不知道。这是郭文贵说的新平台的名字。 问：你不知道？ 答：我不知道。 问：你只知道郭文贵说了这个，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。你在直接证词中说——你看过关于A-I-A-I的直播吗？ 答：是的，他在直播中说的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第75/页 问：不，不。我的问题是：有直播吗——我收回我的话。 你能重复一下你的回答吗？你说他在直播中说的，是这样吗？ 答：是的，是的。 问：好吧。你翻译过那次直播吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你不记得了。你有那次直播的副本吗，他谈到A-I-A-I？ 答：你是说我现在有副本还是怎么？ 问：当然。你有副本吗？你发送过—— 答：不，不。 问：不，不，现在没有，但你有副本，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你把副本给检察官了吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你记得翻译过它吗？ 答：翻译哪一个？ 问：关于A-I-A-I的任何内容。 答：我不记得了。 问：你甚至不知道是否有这个A-I-A-I的视频，对吗？ 答：不，我看过直播。 问：你看过直播，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：但他做的每一个直播都被保存了，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第76/页 问：好吧。所以你有它，对吗？ 答：我现在没有。我可以帮你找。 问：你在与检察官谈论A-I-A-I时找过它吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：他们问你是否有那次直播的副本，对吗，当你与他们准备时？ 答：不。 问：他们没有问你关于A-I-A-I视频的事情。 答：不。 费根森律师说：已经问过并回答过了。 法官说：反对有效。 问：他们问你关于所有其他直播的事情，对吗？ 答：不。 问：他们至少问过你关于八个直播的事情，因为你作证了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：对。他们没有问你是否有一个视频，那个视频是A-I-A-I，对不对？ 答：我不记得了。 问：好吧。你为这次证词做了准备，对吗？ 答：是的。不。 问：那么，你和他们见面13次是为了什么？ 答：我告诉他们真相，把所有东西都给他们。 问：13次？ 答：是的。我不——不确定。我——我不知道。 问：所以你和他们见了这么多次面只是为了确保你在讲真话，没有别的，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第77/页 答：是的。 问：你关于今天要谈的事情都讲了真话，对吗？完全一样的事情。 答：不，不，不。 问：不？ 答：不。 问：好吧。那么，除了郭文贵之外，你还准备了什么其他事情？ 答：对不起？你能再说一遍吗？ 问：除了关于郭文贵的证词外，你还准备了什么其他事情？ 我换一种方式问。 答：我没有准备任何东西。 问：你没有准备。我没问你是否准备了文件，女士。那不是我的问题。 但无论如何，你确实给检察官发送了很多文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你给他们发送了很多电子邮件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你给他们发送了很多很多视频的链接，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你给费根森律师发过邮件，对吗，这位先生，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。你发了很多链接给他们，但没有发关于A-I-A-I视频的链接，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：好的。 答：视频太多了。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第78/页 问：视频太多了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。我继续。顺便问一下，他们给你看过A-I-A-I的视频吗？ 答：我不记得了。 施洛夫律师说：好吧，请调出政府证据VI114。 问：这份文件，你看过这份文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：这是给陪审团看的文件吗？ 我们可以只给她看第二页吗。第三页。第四页。 问：你认得这份文件吗，女士？ 你不认得它？ 答：我认得这份A15合同。 问：你读过它，对吗？ 答：不是全部。 问：但你读过一部分。 答：只是第一页。 问：你只读了第一页。 答：是的。 问：好吧。最后一页呢？ 答：没有。 问：好的。Ampleforth Capital是什么？ 答：支持者把钱寄到这家公司。 问：那是什么公司？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第79/页 答：我不知道。 问：你不知道？ 答：我不知道。 问：好吧。你从你的农场收钱—— 答：不。他们可以直接寄过去。 问：他们可以直接寄过去，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你与此无关，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。你能够作证是因为你和费根森律师一起看过这份文件，对吗？你可以把它—— 答：你能再说一遍吗？ 问：当然。费根森律师在你们在他的办公室见面时给你看过这份文件，对吗？ 答：我给他看的。 问：对。然后你们一起看了它，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后你们看了它，对吗？ 答：不是逐页看的。 问：逐页，还是每隔一页，你们一起看过它，对吗？ 答：只是第一页。 问：只是第一页。即使和费根森律师在一起，你也只看了第一页。 答：我不记得了。 问：你不记得了？ 答：我不记得了。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第80/页 问：你知道检察官是否选择了给你看哪些页吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：你不知道。 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：如果可以的话，请给她看第二页。 问：你从未看过第二页，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 施洛夫律师说：好吧。我们可以把它拿下来。 问：现在你记得在直接证词中你被展示过寄到阿布扎比的钱的文件，对吗？你记得吗？ 算了，我稍后再回来谈这个话题。 让我给你看看作为证据的政府证据VI190-T。这是视频的文字记录。 施洛夫律师说：190，1-9-0。 问：你记得作证时看过这份文件吗？ 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：好吧。如果可以的话，请把第一页的顶部部分放大。 问：好的。在左上角，你看到它写着美国检察官办公室吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是费根森律师的办公室，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：好吧。你不知道他是否在美国检察官办公室工作吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：你认为他是谁？你对费根森律师的理解是什么？ 答：检察官。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第81/页 问：好吧。所以你知道他是这个案件的检察官，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。他给你看过这份文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。他指给你看关于奖励机制的问题，对吗？你看到那句话了吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。然后在下面，它解释了什么是奖励，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：它说，“对于任何带来——”应该是“带来”的，但写的是“带来新的战友，将会有奖励。”对 吗？ 答：是的。 问：奖励是3.5%、5.5%和7.5%。对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这就像推荐朋友，得到奖励，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：很多公司都会这样做，对吗？如果你推荐朋友，你会得到折扣，对吗？ 答：但这实际上没有发生。 问：我没有问你那个问题，但如果你想自愿回答也可以。 但我的问题是：这个奖励计划和其他任何奖励计划没有什么不同，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：你熟悉奖励计划吗？ 答：不熟悉。 问：在澳大利亚没有奖励计划。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第82/页 问：政府律师：问过了，已回答。 答：我不知道。 法官说：支持。 施洛夫律师说：可以把它拿下。 问：现在让我给你看标记为政府证据VI101的文件。 李女士，在直接证词中，你被—— 施洛夫律师说：没关系。可以把它拿下。我稍后再回来。 问：李女士，在直接证词中你被问到一个叫马瓦的地方，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。你作证的内容是—— 施洛夫律师说：实际上，让我看看能不能给你找出那份文件。是GX 29, VI29。 问：你记得被展示这份文件并作证，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我还没给你看文件。等一下。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我们似乎遇到了一些系统问题。我很抱歉。 陪审员没有文件，法官大人。 法官说：陪审员的屏幕上没有吗？现在有了吗？ 陪审员：没有。 法官说：那么你能换个问题吗。 施洛夫律师说：我稍后再回来。 问：我将尝试在没有文件的情况下问你一些问题。 陪审员：现在有了。 施洛夫律师说：哦，现在有了？好吧。看这个文件。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第83/页 问：你作证时看过这份文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。它写着“亲爱的Anron”，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你作证时说Anron是阿伦·米切尔，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：阿伦·米切尔是谁？你可以提高声音吗。 答：好的。郭文贵的律师。 施洛夫律师说：好的。文件——它没有回到屏幕上？又没了？好的。我没有文件继续 下去可以吗，法官？ 法官说：你可以试试这样做。继续吧。 施洛夫律师说：好的。 问：你记得作证时看过这份文件，对吧？ 施洛夫律师说：能有人给她一份纸质文件吗。 法官说：有问题吗？ 施洛夫律师说：好的。 问：阿伦·米切尔也是G-Clubs的律师，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：所以你只知道他是郭文贵的律师，但不知道他是否是G-Clubs的律师。 答：是的。 问：好吧。你见过阿伦·米切尔吗？ 答：没有。 问：你参加过和阿伦·米切尔的会议吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第84/页 答：没有。 问：好吧。那么你怎么知道他是郭文贵的律师？ 答：他给我打过一次电话。 问：所以他打过一次电话，从那—— 答：他还给我翻译任务。 问：好的。他给了你包括G-Clubs在内的翻译任务，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你不记得了。 答：不记得。 问：好吧。所以我们就这份文件，因为你记得这份文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。这份文件是GX VI29，对吗？ 答：对不起？什么号码？ 问：没关系。底部的29。你看到了吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。文件提到了一处房产，对吗？它说“关于今天的房产”，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。它提到“我们可以在那里接待家人居住”，逗号，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：“或者有时我们也可以将其改造以接待我们的俱乐部成员”，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。根据你的说法，当郭文贵在这份文件中提到家人时，他只指自己的家庭，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第85/页 问：而不是你作证时提到的运动的大家庭，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：因为你在直接证词中作证说他叫你木兰妹妹是因为他想让你感到自己是家庭的一部分 ，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你说这是他控制你的方式，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是你的证词，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：但这次他说家庭时，在你看来，他把你排除在外，对吗？ 答：是的，那是他自己的家庭。 问：好的。对。这是你认为他指的是他自己的家庭，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。即使他说“我们家人”，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他没有说“我可以接待我的家人”，对吗？你看到那句话，“我们可以接待我们家人”，他没 有说“我的家人”，对吗？“我们家人”。 答：那仍然是他的家人。 问：那是根据你的说法，对吧？但这个词是“我们”。 答：是的。 问：好的。那么我们继续下一行，对吗？ 然后他说，“我要重申本要约的以下关键点”，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第86/页 问：好的。然后如果你——它说，“请联系余建明”，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。余建明是谁？ 答：余建明。 问：余建明负责什么？ 答：我不知道。 问：好的。那么我们看下一页。 他说这房子有一百多年，对吗？ 我们可以看下一页。 你看到第5条了吗？ 答：是的。 问：它谈到装修项目“需经我们的预算批准”，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。它没有说“我的预算批准”，对吗？ 我继续。 施洛夫律师说：让我们继续往下看。 对不起。太远了。好的。 问：你看到这里，它谈到获得政府的许可，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。然后他谈到协调政府的许可很重要，对吗？在第b段下，对吗？ 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：好的。继续往下看。 问：现在他在抱怨老房子的灯具，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第87/页 答：是的。 问：他说它们太旧了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。这必须假设有人做了房屋检查，对吗，因为他特别提到了灯具？ 费根森律师说：反对。 法官说：反对有效。 问：好的。然后在第d段——看第d段。 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：继续往下看。继续往下看。 第6段。等一下。好了，好吗？ 问：它说，“最后也是最严重的是，他和代理必须签字，确保他们必须始终对这笔交易保持法 律承诺，绝不向任何第二或第三方披露任何信息”，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。“并且绝对保密，包括即使在法庭作证时也不能披露任何关于这笔交易的信息。” 对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你理解他在这里谈论的内容吗？ 答：我不明白。 问：好的。然后他说，“因为这房子有很长的历史”，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他在谈论保持关系的完整性，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：因为有对建筑本身历史的承诺，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第88/页 答：是的。 问：好的。然后你继续往下看，对吗？然后——他谈到了这个价格，然后说，“非常感谢”，对 吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。你—— 施洛夫律师说：这是文件的结尾吗？谢谢。 问：你为郭文贵翻译了这份文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你收到的不是郭文贵语音信息，而是实际的文件，对吗？ 答：不，是他的语音信息。 问：好的。那么我们看看这份文件的中文版本，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你的证词是你创建了这份文件的中文版本？ 答：对不起？ 施洛夫律师说：能有人给她看看吗？ 谢谢你，洛夫特斯女士。我很感激。 对不起，中文版本。 问：好的。这份文件是谁创建的？ 答：我。 问：所以你根据他所说的内容创建了这份中文文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。然后从中文翻译成英文，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第89/页 问：你把英文版本发送给谁？ 答：郭文贵。 问：所以你把英文版本发回给郭文贵，而不是阿伦·米切尔，即使它是写给阿伦·米切尔的。 答：是的，我发回给郭文贵。 问：当你把它发回给郭文贵时，你作证说你不知道他在谈论哪处房产，对吗？ 答：那时是的。 问：对。你不知道他在谈论哪处房产，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。那时你知道郭文贵正在全球各地寻找房产，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：你不知道？ 答：我不知道。 问：好的。那么你不知道他是否在其他地方寻找房产，对吗？ 答：不知道。 问：好的。你不知道他是否在寻找房产—— 费根森律师说：反对。已经问过了。 法官说：我们还没有听到问题。 施洛夫律师说：没关系，法官大人。 问：你作证说就你而言，你是他内圈的一部分，对吗？ 答：我不知道。你说的内圈是什么意思？ 问：嗯，你说过郭文贵告诉你的所有事情都是秘密，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他告诉你的任何事情都是秘密，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第90/页 答：是的。 问：所以如果他想告诉你这个房子，他会毫无问题地告诉你，对吗？他会和你分享这个秘密 ，对吗？根据你的说法？ 答：他只是让我翻译这个。 问：对。他只让你翻译它，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他从未和你讨论过这份文件，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：他从未和你谈论过这个房产，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：他没有告诉你是否这是一个秘密基地，对吗？他什么都没告诉你？ 答：对，没有。 问：所以你昨天作证的一切都只是关于这份文件上的内容，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：当然你在费根森律师的办公室里审阅了这份文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。多少次？ 答：我不记得了。 问：费根森律师问你这个短语“招待俱乐部会员”时，你们讨论过这个短语吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你们讨论过“家族基金”这个短语吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。所以你记得和他讨论过这个，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第91/页 答：是的。 问：你们讨论过需要为这个地方获取许可证吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：好的。所以费根森律师关注这份文件中的“家族基金”部分，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我可以有一秒钟的时间吗？ 法官说：可以。 施洛夫律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。对不起，法官大人。我们非常感谢洛夫特斯女士 的帮助。我能否与她合作片刻？ 101。对不起。VI。 由辩方律师施洛夫提问： 问：你记得昨天作证提到的这封电子邮件吗，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。你是这封电子邮件链上的一个人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这些邮件往来是来自一个名叫亚历克斯·利普曼的人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你能告诉我们，亚历克斯·利普曼是谁吗？ 答：是王雁平的律师。 问：好的。你怎么知道他是王雁平的律师？ 答：长岛哥告诉我的。 问：谁？ 答：长岛哥告诉我的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第92/页 问：好的。他也被称为长岛伟哥，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。 施洛夫律师说：我们无法调出辩方证据，但没关系。我继续。 问：邮件链上的第二个人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：它写着收件人，对吗？ 施洛夫律师说：如果可以放大电子邮件地址——不，顶部部分，请。 问：好的。电子邮件是发给Sari B. Placona的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：据你所知，那也是一个律师，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：还有Anthony Sodono，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：也是律师，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：好吧，我们往下翻，看看律师事务所的名字。 施洛夫律师说：就在这里，在Sari B. Placona的下方，如果我们可以放大。 问：对吗？它在MSBNJ.com。对吗？ 答：是的。 问：MSB是McManimon, Scotland & Baumann.com，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：好吧，看这里。MSB。MSB。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第93/页 答：我不知道那代表什么。 问：好的。让我们回到电子邮件地址。 所以你有Jeremy Temkin，对吗？从阅读上看，这个很明显，maglaw，律师事务所， 对吗，.com？ 答：是的。 问：好的。还有Raymond Moss，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：maglaw.com，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以从这两个地址，你可以得出这是一个律师事务所的结论，对吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，我们反对相关性以及法院的先前裁决。 法官说：你可以回答。 施洛夫律师说：我继续。 问：下一个是PriyaChaudhryLaw.com，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：下一个电子邮件地址是virtlawus.com，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：下一个是weddlelaw.com，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：最后一个也是weddlelaw.com，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以，利普曼律师向你和其他几位律师发送了一封附带文件的电子邮件，对吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，我们可以在边栏讨论一下吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第94/页 法官说：可以。 （边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 费根森律师说：关于相关性的反对意见是，被告没有提出律师建议的辩护，如你所 知。他本应通知这一点。他没有提出这种辩护，意味着律师的存在在本案中没有相关 性，而他们似乎正试图通过这一系列问题引出这一论点。如果我们继续这样下去，我 认为法官大人应该指示陪审团，被告没有也不能提出律师建议的辩护，明确律师的 存在并不意味着被告的行为是因为有律师在场。我们在审前文件中已经提到过这个 问题，法官大人。 法官说：提到这些律师的原因是什么？ 卡马拉珠律师说：只是表明这并没有隐藏什么，法官大人。 施洛夫律师说：这没有隐藏什么。如果《华尔街日报》—— 费根森律师说：在电子邮件链中，律师的存在有什么关系？ 施洛夫律师说：在你打断我之前，我正要说，如果电子邮件是发给《华尔街日报》的， 我也会提出来。 费根森律师说：这没有意义。 法官说：提到这些律师的目的是什么？ 施洛夫律师说：因为我们基本上是在说这封电子邮件是公开发送的。就像他们逐一 提到每个文件、每一行一样。我们没有提出律师建议的辩护。我们的客户甚至没有参与这 封电子邮件。 费根森律师说：我知道他们没有，但他们误导陪审团认为因为有律师参与，所以这里 有某种正当性。 施洛夫律师说：但是—— SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第95/页 费根森律师说：对不起，施洛夫律师。对不起，施洛夫律师。如果他们想问一些问题 ，比如你是这封电子邮件链中的八个人之一，那很好，但逐一提到，“这是律师，那是律师”， 这明显违反了法庭关于律师在场和允许引出这种内容的裁定。法庭应该指示陪审团，没有 律师建议的辩护，他们不能提出律师建议的辩护。 卡马拉珠律师说：据我理解，根据法庭的裁定，我们可以指出律师的存在，但我们不 能辩称律师做了什么，或强调郭先生与律师的关系，但我不认为我们被禁止提及律师。 法官说：我想回顾一下我的裁定，以刷新我的记忆，我们将在回来后讨论。我们现在 休息一下。 卡马拉珠律师说：好的，法官大人。 施洛夫律师说：谢谢。 （回到公开法庭） 法官说：陪审团成员，现在是11:29。我将休庭。记住不要与他人讨论此案，也不要允 许他人在你们面前讨论。不要观看、收听或阅读与此案有关的任何内容。 （陪审团不在场） 法官说：李女士，你可以下去了。你可以出去。记住不要讨论你的证词。 （证人不在场） 法官说：我们将在中午返回。 （午餐休会） SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第96/页 下午庭审 下午12:01 （陪审团不在场） 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，证人在证人席上。 法官说：女士，可不可以请你先出去一下。通常法庭是证人在右边，所以我不习惯看 向这个方向，请你先离场。 关于5月14日最后的审前会议上我们边栏讨论的问题，我在这里说说做出的书面决 定。我说过收到了政府昨天提交的一封信函，要求禁止郭先生以律师当时在场作为 辩护。郭先生已表示不打算正式启动善意使用律师建议辩护，但保留提交证词的权 利证明他知悉某些交易中有法律顾问的参与。 我同意政府的意见，这些证据可能与本案并没有多少关联，但是会有混淆陪审团的 风险。如果郭先生提出善意使用律师建议进行辩护，那就需要披露与律师的沟通信 息，以确定他是否全面诚实地给出所有事实，是否遵循了律师的建议。见美国诉 Scully案，877 F.3d 464, 476,第二巡回法院，2017年。 既然选择不启动善意使用律师建议辩护，郭先生现在就不能把律师当时在场即当作 矛又当作盾来使用。因此我将遵循Katherine Forrest法官在美国证券交易委员会诉 Tourre案中采用的方法，“不会完全禁止”辩方提及‘律师“’或‘法律顾问’等词汇，但不 能刻意放大检视律师在场或律师参与来进行特别的强调’。”见950 F.Supp 2d, 666, 684到85页，及685页（南纽约州地区法院，2013年）。 那些仅仅表明律师出席或安排了会议的证据，法庭将予以禁止，因为与本案无关。如 果郭先生提到律师在场或有律师参与，法院将对陪审团作出指示，限制对此类信息 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第97/页 的使用。可是我认为施洛夫律师你正是这么做的，在强调律师当时在场。律师在不 在场与本案无关，我将对陪审团发出限制性指示。 这是我打算对陪审团说的话：律师出现在邮件往来中这一事实不能证明其中任何个 人行为的合法性。你们有意见或问题吗？ 费根森律师说：能不能给我们一点儿时间。 （律师商议） 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，首先是我误读了法庭命令，所以我道歉。误读显然是因为 过度解读成要求开会及会议安排，是我的错。那是我的错误，我就想明确这一点。但 是法官大人，你能不能把那段话再念一遍。 法官说：律师出现在邮件往来中这一事实不能证明其中任何个人行为的合法性。 施洛夫律师说：辩方没有异议。 费根森律师说：我们也没有，法官大人。 法官说：那么请让陪审员进来。 书��员说：陪审团入场。 （陪审团在场） 法官说：请就座。请把证人带上来。 各位陪审员，我要向你们指出一点，律师出现在邮件往来中这一事实不能证明其中 任何个人行为的合法性。 李女士，请记住你仍受所作宣誓之约束。可以继续你的询问了。 施洛夫律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 由施洛夫律师提问： 问：让我们回到GXVI-110。李女士，你记得为这个文件作过证，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第98/页 问：再说一次，你要是能大声一点，那就太好了。你能看出来这是一份文件，是Club ME有限 公司和HAA之间的，对吗？ 答：我不同意。 问：文件标题是G|Club ME有限公司与HAA集团有限公司之贷款协议。你是不同意这个标 题吗？ 答：是的。 问：那不是你在直接询问时做过证的文件吗？ 答：是的，但那不是一个真正的贷款协议。 问：我的问题是，这是你之前的那个文件吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在直接询问中为这个文件作证了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：李女士，你今天坐在这里，说说你是否知道郭先生在阿布扎比的机构投资者是谁？ 答：余建明 问：除了余建明，你知道的机构投资者还有谁？ 答：汉密尔顿农场。 问：好吧，那仍然是余建明，别的还有谁？ 答：我不知道。 问：你只知道余建明，这么说还算公平吧？ 答：是的。 问：你不清楚郭先生是否为喜联储在阿布扎比申请了管理咨询执照，是吗？ 答：一切按郭文贵指示办。 问：哪些要按郭文贵指示办？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第99/页 答：喜联储和你所说的阿布扎比的执照。 问：所以你知道他在9月2日申请了执照，是吗？ 答：他派支持者去申请了。 问：你能让我把问题问完，可以吗？ 答：可以。 问：我的问题是，你是否知晓郭先生在2022年9月2日申请了喜联储的管理咨询执照？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，她已经回答了这个问题。 法官说：同意。 问：执照被批准了，对吗？ 答：不知道。 问：你是否知道喜联储在同一时间与银行和阿联酋的金融机构在进行谈判？ 答：不知道。 问：你是否知道在2022年9月他们要把喜交易所迁往阿联酋？ 答：我知道要搬迁，但不知道确切日期。 问：你知道要搬迁，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：但你不知道是不是2022年9月搬？ 答：是的，不知道。 问：所以你不知道是不是2022年9月2日，是吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：我可以请她看一下GXVI-110吗？对不起，第2页和最后一页。你看到下面的签名了吗， 对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第100/页 问：你被指定为贷款人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在直接询问中作证说你完全没有阅读这个文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：检察官就这个文件问了你问题，你也作答了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：按照这个文件，没有要求任何人购买新卡，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你同意我说的，对吧，在阿布扎比开公司并不违法？ 费根森律师说：反对。她不能对法律问题作证。 法官说：反对有效，她不是来对法律作证的。 问：你认为在阿布扎比有公司存在吗？ 答：对不起。 问：你认为在阿布扎比有公司存在吗？ 答：是的。 问：人们与阿布扎比的公司做生意，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好，那你知道郭文贵与阿布扎比做生意，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道七年来都如此，对吧，因为你说过你为他工作了7年，对吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，你得让她一个一个回答，之后再提下一个问题。 法官说：对。让她回答。 答：我不知道。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第101/页 问：好的。现在说说费根森律师在这里问你的问题，是关于这个文件中提到的欧元，对吗？ 我们可以给她看一下提到欧元的地方。你看那里，看到那个贷款金额了吗？ 答：是的。 问：他详细询问了这一行，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：记得你昨天对这一行作过证吗？ 答：是的。 问：如果你用麦克风，就帮了我大忙了，你思考的时候我就不会说话了。 答：好的。 问：谢谢。所以你作证说你认为生意是用欧元进行的，因为欧元不像美元，欧元是无法被追 踪的，对吗？那是你的证词，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以，李女士，你的理解是可以被追踪的货币只有是美元，是吗？ 答：对不起。 问：你的理解是唯一可以被追踪的货币只有美元，是吗？ 答：不知道。 问：好吧。有人从一个银行向另一个银行汇欧元，仍然会产生一个电子交易记录，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你可以跟踪那笔交易，对吗？ 答：不知道。 问：那么，用欧元的原因可能是因为—— 费根森律师说：反对。 问：——因为那是进行生意往来的货币，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第102/页 法官说：反对有效。这类假设性问题不应该问她。 问：李女士，你在直接询问中作证说你签署了文件，引用你的话“联盟要求我签字，所以我和 他们签了”，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你—— 答：联盟还要我汇欧元，但我不能汇。我还是汇了美元，但合同是欧元，与我汇款的金额不 一致。我汇的是美元。 问：李女士，我没有问你这个问题。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我请求删除。 法官说：回答删除。 问：你是否在直接询问中说过，当联盟要求我签字时，我就得与他们签。这是你说的，对 吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后你又说签贷款协议是因为老班长要求你签，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对，这有轻微的误述。这不是贷款协议。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：不，文康。是文康要求我签署这个文件。文康负责联盟的财务。 问：长先生的角色是什么？ 答：谁？ 问：老班长？ 答：他发文件过来，要求我在这行签字，注销这笔贷款。 问：所以他要求你注销贷款，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第103/页 问：顺便问一下，你注销了这笔贷款吗？ 答：是的。 问：你这么做是因为你想注销贷款，还是因为联盟—— 答：因为联盟要求我签字。 问：所以在你心里他就是联盟，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他曾经是新西兰农场的负责人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他实际上是你的好朋友，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：他在发给你这份文件时不是你的好朋友，是吗？ 答：不是，我们都只是支持者。 问：对不起？ 答：我们只是支持者。 问：是，他是支持者，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你对支持者会厚此薄彼，是吗？ 答：不是。 问：你对所有支持者都是一视同仁吗？ 答：不是。 问：对不起。 答：不是。 问：但你在直接询问中也作证说，你认为这些支持者都是一家人，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第104/页 答：是的。 问：所以你对他很友好，是吗？ 答：我和每个人都友好。 问：每个人都一样友好吗？ 答：是的。 问：即没有比较要好的朋友，也没有不怎么交好的朋友，是吗？ 答：没有。 问：你和他都在铁血组，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你的其中一个公司就是卖给了他，对吗？ 答：对不起。 问：你的其中一个公司就是卖给了他，对吗？ 答：我不知道你在说什么。 问：你有没有把一个公司转给他？ 答：基金公司，是的。 问：哪个基金公司？ 答：Archwood基金。 问：那是谁的基金？ 答：对不起。 问：Archwood是谁的基金？ 答：是在郭文贵的指示下设立的。 问：我没问你这个。 施洛夫律师说：请求删除。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第105/页 法官说：同意。 问：我的问题是，李女士，那是谁的基金？ 答：联盟的基金。 问：那是联盟的基金。这个基金收管理费吗？ 答：不知道。 问：你拿了管理费，因为这是你的基金，对吗？ 答：不，这是联盟的基金。 问：在Archwood的公司文件上有你的名字，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：有你的签名，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你是最终受益人，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：真的？ 答：是的。 问：在公司注册证书上还有谁的签名？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你不记得了。文件上有没有联盟的字样？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你管理Archwood基金有多长时间？ 答：我不记得了。 问：一年？ 答：我不记得了。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第106/页 问：两年？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你拿了多少管理费？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你拿了管理费吗？ 答：我不记得了。我没拿—— 问：女士，目前没有要问的了。你作证说那边的郭先生让你删除和更换电话号码，对吗？ 答：删除信息更换电话号码，是的。 问：他让你删除手机上的信息，对吗？这是你的证词吧？ 答：是的。 问：他还让你更换电话号码，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他几乎让每个人都这么做，对吗？ 答：对不起。 问：他几乎让每个人都这么做，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：他会在Whatsapp群组中发这消息，对吗？ 答：什么消息？ 问：他手机被黑了，每个人都要换号码？ 答：我不知道。 问：他向你解释过为什么他的手机被黑，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他是怎么向你解释的？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第107/页 答：中国共产党黑客了他的手机。 问：然后他会更换号码，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：有时候你换号码，有时候你没有换，对吗？ 答：什么意思？ 问：当郭先生让你更换号码时，你每次都换了吗？ 答：是的，我换了新号码。 问：你换了新号码，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你有一部手机是给郭先生用的，另一部是给其他人用的，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：所以你只是更换了一直在使用的电话号码，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你作证说他让你删除信息，你就删除了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后你作证说，但你保留了一些与郭文贵直接交流的信息，对吗？ 答：我保留了所有与郭文贵直接交流的信息。 问：所以尽管他让你删除所有信息，你仍然保留了与郭文贵直接交流的信息，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你保留了所有这些直接交流的信息，但删除了其他所有信息，这是你的证词，对吗？ 答：不是，我没有删除其他所有信息，只是群组信息。 问：群组信息。那么如果你在群组中，你是保留还是删除这些信息？ 答：我保留了直接交流的信息。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第108/页 问：你记得昨天作证说你删除了大多数信息，只保留了一些与郭文贵直接交流的信息吗？ 答：是的。 问：昨天是那么说的。今天你说你保留了他的所有直接交流的信息，哪个是正确的？ 答：两者都对。昨天我说的大部分信息，意思是包括了群组信息，但我保留了他的直接信 息。这是我的意思。 问：但是你说过，我引用原话“我保留了一些与郭文贵直接交流的息”。 费根森律师说：反对，已经问过答过。 法官说：反对有效，问过答过了。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，做个记录，这是昨天的证词第1502页。 法官说：我没听清。 施洛夫律师说：做个记录，这是昨天的证词第1502页。 问：你在Whatsapp群组里，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你熟悉Whatsapp应用程序，对吗？你使用这个应用程序，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你需要从苹果商店下载才能用，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你可以设置账户，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你可以选择照片，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你可以使用删除功能删掉信息，对吗？ 答：不知道。没用过。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第109/页 问：你不用Whatsapp，还是不用这个功能？ 答：我不用这个功能。 问：但这个功能是存���的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你作证过郭先生被捕的情况，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后你作证说阅读了起诉书，对吗？ 答：对不起。 问：你作证说，你阅读了针对郭先生的起诉书，对吧？ 答：我读过还是没读过？你是什么意思？ 问：你告诉我你读没读过？ 答：什么时候？ 问：起诉书。 答：我什么时候读的起诉书？ 问：我在问你。你读过吗？ 答：你的问题是什么？ 问：你读过针对郭文贵的起诉书吗？ 答：是的。 问：你记得起诉书的日期是什么时候吗？ 答：3月15日。 问：哪一年？ 答：2023年。 问：在2023年3月15日之后，你仍然是农场的负责人，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第110/页 答：是的。 问：你仍然在铁血组，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你继续为联盟工作，对吗 答：是的。 问：在那段时间里，你从未向任何当局报告过可能的欺诈行为，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对，关于那段时间的表述有问题。 法官说：你指的是哪段时间？ 问：在2023年的3月，你并没有向任何当局举报告说有欺诈行为，对吗？ 答：对不起，哪一天？ 问：在2023年3月，在针对郭先生的起诉书之后，你没有向任何当局报告郭先生欺诈，对 吗？ 答：是的。 问：好，3月没去举报、4月、5月、6月、7月都没有，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：8月也没有，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你第一次去当局是什么时候？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你甚至不记得，对吗？ 答：大约在8月、9月、10月。 问：是2023年8月或者9月，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第111/页 问：对不起。 答：是的。 问：在3月15日到8月之间，你继续建立实体，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：真的吗。你在那段时间里从3月15日之后没有建立任何实体吗？ 答：没有。 问：那G Fashion呢？ 答：G Fashion？ 问：是的。 答：没有。 问：你继续管理你的Archwood基金吗？你在继续管理，对吗？ 答：不，我们有经理。 问：你的基金有经理？ 答：是的。 问：经理的名字是什么？ 答：Richard。 问：他继续为你管理基金，对吗？ 答：是的，不是为我，是为联盟。 问：好吧，那基金是在你的名下，没错吧？ 答：是的。 问：顺便问一下，Richard住在哪里？ 费根森律师说：法官大人—— 施洛夫律师说：这能体现他们的关系。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第112/页 费根森律师说：那能不能大方向上说一下他住在哪里。 施洛夫律师说：这是一个概括性的问题。 法官说：可以，就大概地说一说 问：他住在哪个国家？ 答：澳大利亚。 问：你手机里有他的电话号码吗？ 答：对不起。 问：你手机里有他的电话号码，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：联盟没有他的电话号码吗？ 答：联盟当然有。他是其中一员。 问：联盟没有他作为你基金经理人的电话号码，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对，这个问题已经问过答过。 法官说：反对有效。 问：谁从Archwood基金中拿到管理费了？ 费根森律师说：已经问过答过。 法官说：反对有效。 问：那HAA基金呢？ 答：你是什么意思，关于什么？ 问：那HAA基金呢？ 答：关于HAA基金的什么？ 问：我正要问这个，在2023年3月15日到8月之间你去向当局报告的同时，还在继续管理 HAA基金，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第113/页 答：代表联盟。 问：这点你已经说过了。我的问题是，你是否还在继续管理基金？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，她不能与证人争论。她可以问问题。 法官说：反对有效。 问：你还在管理基金吗？ 费根森律师说：已经问过答过。 法官说：反对有效。 问：你还在继续支付开销，对吗——我指的仍然是3月15日到8月之间的那段时间。你支付 了开销，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对这种问法。 法官说：具体是与什么相关？ 问：HAA？ 答：我不记得了。 问：那么Archwood的开销呢？ 答：是的。 问：你支付了开销，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你支付了员工的薪水，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：在你管理这两个实体时，你不认为它们是欺诈性的，对吗？我仍然只说3月15日到8月期 间。 答：是的。 问：你继续支付IT工程师的费用，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第114/页 答：不，我停了。 问：即使他们仍在工作，你也停止支付他们工资，你停止支付他们了吗？ 答：是的，我在2023年初停了。 问：2023年初？ 答：是的。 问：你继续在法治基金会的董事会上投票，对吗？ 答：不。 问：你什么时候停止在法治基金会的董事会工作的？ 答：2023年7月。 问：那么你在三月、对吧，四月、五月、六月、七月继续支付了吗？ 答：但在这段时间里没有投票。 问：女士，我没有问你是否投票。我问的是你是否仍然是法治基金董事会的成员？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，如果她在给出响应性的答案，施洛夫女士不应该与她争 论。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我会重新提问。我认为费根森先生的观点有些夸大了。 法官说：有问题吗？ 问：我相信我刚才问她的最后一个问题是，她是否一直是法治基金董事会的成员直到2023 年7月？ 法官说：你可以回答这个问题。 答：是的。 问：从2023年3月15日到8月，你继续管理喜币的投资，对吗？ 答：你说的管理喜币是什么意思？ 问：你是在管理一项用于购买银行的投资来支持这个运动，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第115/页 答：你是说D2银行项目吗？ 问：对。 答：它停止了。 问：我明白。我的问题是，它从3月15日一直持续到8月，对吗？ 答：不，它结束了。 问：哪一年？ 答：2022年。 问：2022年？ 答：2022年4月。 问：2022年4月？ 答：是的，我们已经把所有D2银行的钱都送到Hamilton农场。之后没有任何事情发生。 问：我的问题不是是否发生了什么事。我的问题是，你没有采取任何步骤退出这些交易，对 吗？ 答：你说的退出这些交易是什么意思？ 问：我继续问下一个问题。 你记得作证关于H-C-H-K的事情吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在起诉书中读到H-C-H-K，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：当你在起诉书中读到H-C-H-K时，你就开始担心了，对吗？ 答：担心什么？ 问：是那时你开始担心、担忧、害怕的吗？ 答：担心，不是害怕。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第116/页 问：你担心是因为你是H-C-H-K的董事，对吗？ 答：不，因为我以为法治基金会是一个慈善机构，但现在出来的是一个公司。这完全不同。 问：你是董事，对吗？ 答：是的，我被郭文贵误导了。 问：我明白。你被郭文贵误导了。女士，我的问题是，你担心是因为你的名字在文件上，对 吗？ 答：不是我的名字，只是公司的名字。 问：哪个公司？ 答：H-C-H-K-B-V-I。 问：与H-C-H-K关联的名字是谁的？ 答：王雁平。 问：不是你的？ 答：不是。 问：所以你的名字根本不在上面？ 答：不在文件上，但我知道我是另一个董事。 问：李女士，你在直接询问中作证说，有人找你签署与郭先生破产相关的文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你作证时提到王女士的律师找过你，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：顺便问一下，那位律师叫什么名字？ 答：亚历克斯·利普曼。 问：在利普曼先生找你之后，另一位律师也找过你，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第117/页 问：你不记得了。你昨天作证说过？ 答：有很多律师，但我记得亚历克斯·利普曼发邮件让我签那个文件。 问：然后另一位律师也找过你，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：请调出GX-121。你记得另一个律师的名字是张勇兵。也许我们可以给她看一张照片。 费根森律师说：法官大人，我能和辩护律师简短谈一下吗？ 法官说：可以。 （律师们商议） 问：我给你看的是DX6053，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是谁？ 答：张勇兵。 问：他是代表王女士也找过你的律师，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他带来了一份他希望你签署的文件，对吗？ 答：不是他，是亚历克斯·利普曼发给我的。他给我发了一份虚假宣誓书。那是不同的文件。 问：我说的就是这份文件，你说的虚假宣誓书，对吗？ 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：顺便问一下，我可以将这份文件作为证据提交吗？ 费根森律师说：没有异议。 法官说：准予接纳。 问：他让你签这份文件？ 法官说：再问一下这份文件的编号是什么？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第118/页 施洛夫律师说：60503。 （被告方证据60503接纳为证据） 由辩方施洛夫律师继续询问： 问：我们不再讨论通过电子邮件发给你的亚历克斯·利普曼的文件，好吗？ 答：好的。 问：我们在谈论他带给你的文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你昨天作证说，当你拒绝签署时，他威胁了你，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我只想确认一下。他没有威胁要对你施加任何暴力，对吗？ 答：不是身体上的。 问：他没有威胁要对你施加任何身体暴力，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他没有威胁要把你标记为中共间谍，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我说得对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他没有威胁要把你标记为中共间谍？ 答：是的。 问：你说“是的”是指我是对的吗？ 答：是的。 问：他没有威胁要把你踢出这个运动，对吗？ 答：对不起。你能再说一遍吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第119/页 问：他没有威胁要把你踢出这个运动，对吗？ 答：但我感觉是那样的。 问：我的问题是，他是否用言语威胁你，如果你不签署宣誓书就会被踢出运动？ 答：让我感觉是那样的。 问：那是你的感觉。我的问题是，他是否用言语威胁你？ 答：是的。 问：他用言语威胁你并说如果你不签这份文件就会被踢出运动吗？ 答：让我感觉是那样的。 问：女士，我没问你是否感觉是那样的。我的问题是，他是否用言语威胁你？ 答：他用言语威胁我。 问：现在你说他用了这些话？ 答：是的。 问：所以这个人威胁你并说，如果你不签这份宣誓书，我们就会把你踢出运动？ 答：这个信息让我感觉是那样的。 问：好的。但这个信息没有这些话，对吗？ 答：是个威胁性的信息。 问：告诉我这个信息是什么？这个信息中有什么威胁性的内容？ 答：他说，作为联盟的法律团队，如果这个案子我们输了，我全权负责，我们会损失3800万 美元，我对此全权负责。 问：对。但他从未威胁要把你踢出这个运动，对吗？ 答：那让我感觉是那样的。 问：那是你的感觉，但他从未对你说过这些话？ 费根森律师说：已经问过并回答过。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第120/页 施洛夫律师说：她从未回答过。 法官说：你说什么了吗？ 费根森律师说：我认为那是施洛夫女士。 法官说：反对有效。继续下一个问题。 问：能给她看一下长岛David的照片吗？那是谁？ 答：长岛哥Changdao。 问：也被称为长岛David兄弟，对吗？ 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：我请求将这份文件作为证据提交， DX6498。 费根森律师说：没有异议。 法官说：准予接纳。 （被告方证据6498接纳为证据） 由施洛夫律师继续询问： 问：他是运动的一部分，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他是某个农场的负责人，对吗？ 答：曾经是香草山Mountain Spices农场的负责人。 问：你和他有过互动，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：事实上，互动频繁，对吗？ 答：是的，因为我们在铁血组。 问：即使在铁血组之外，你也与他有互动，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第121/页 答：没有。 问：没有？ 答：没有。 问：你最后一次与长岛David，这个人，交谈是什么时候？ 答：我不记得了。 问：是上个月吗？ 答：不是。 问：是前一个月吗？ 答：不是。 问：你记得是前一个月吗？ 答：不记得了。 问：事实上，你不记得2024年是否与他说过话，对吗？ 答：我在2023年11月离开了。 问：我的问题不是你什么时候离开的。 女士，我的问题是，你在2024年是否继续与长岛David交谈？ 答：没有。 问：自郭先生被捕后，你是否继续与他有业务往来？ 答：你指什么业务？ 问：你是否继续与他互动？ 答：是的。 问：你是否继续与他讨论实体的问题？ 答：是的。 问：那是在郭先生被捕之后，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第122/页 答：是的。 问：今天坐在这里，你不知道这是否持续到2024年，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。 答：是的。 法官说：已经问过并回答过。反对有效。 问：回到你与张律师的沟通，对吗？ 答：谁？ 问：勇，就是之前的照片里的那个人。再给她看一下。 他是让你签那份虚假宣誓书的人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他告诉你，如果你不签，联盟将损失3500万美元，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你没有签那份文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你没有签那份文件是因为你希望钱能还给H-C-H-K的债权人，对吗？ 答：不，我没签是因为那是假的。 问：你没签是因为那是假的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：如果你签了，那笔钱不会回到破产受托人那里，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对，这需要法律结论。 法官说：反对有效。 问：你读了那份宣誓书，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第123/页 问：你认为那是假的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你也认为他认为那是真的，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对，问题形式不当。 法官说：反对有效。 问：你希望这3800万美元归破产受托人所有，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：对不起，你能重复一下吗？ 问：你希望这3800万美元归破产受托人所有，对吗？ 答：不是我想要的，而是因为已经有禁制令了。 问：所以你认为这笔钱归破产受托人是正确的，对吗？ 费根森律师说：已经问过并回答过。 施洛夫律师说：实际上，她还没有回答。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：你能再说一遍吗？ 施洛夫律师说：很抱歉打扰你，但你能再读一遍问题吗？ （记录被读出） 答：是的，这是对的。 问：HAA是H-C-H-K的债权人之一，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：HAA借钱给H-C-H-K，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第124/页 答：我把钱转给了H-C-H-K Technologies，但合同是和新西兰公司签的。 问：女士，我的问题是钱是否被转给了H-C-H-K，不是合同是和谁签的？ 法官说：有异议吗？ 费根森律师说：她已经回答了问题，法官大人。施洛夫女士不能对证据进行定性。 法官说：支持异议。 问：H-C-H-K欠HAA钱吗？ 答：不，那是为了购买GTV股份，不是真正的贷款。 问：我听不清她说的话。 答：那是为了购买GTV股份，不是贷款。 问：无论出于什么原因，H-C-H-K——这个问题其实是。你回答了另一个问题，所以我只是 想弄清楚。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我们可以靠近一点吗？ 法官说：你问了问题，她的回答部分是“没有”，所以继续。 问：香草山Mountain of Spice基金/农场借了钱，对吗？ 答：不。我不知道，那是另一个农场。我不知道。 问：你不知道？ 答：我不知道。 问：作为铁血组的成员，你不知道其他的钱是怎么转给H-C-H-K的吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：你知道各个农场的钱是来自成员的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他们是美国成员，对吗？ 答：哪个农场？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第125/页 问：香草山Mountain of Spice农场的钱是来自美国成员，对吗？ 答：每个农场的成员来自世界各地，不仅仅是美国。 问：所有这些收益都进入了贷款，对吗？ 答：这不是贷款。这是为了购买GTV股份。 问：好吧，无论你认为是什么。 答：不是我决定的。是郭文贵说的。 法官说：证人已经说了这不是贷款。 问：有执行签署贷款协议吗？ 答：你说的“执行”是什么意思？ 问：签署。 答：只有农场签署。没有人回复签名。 问：但它仍然被签署了，对吗，由一个实体签署，对吗？ 答：由农场。 问：农场签署了文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：由于这个签名，钱从一个账户中转出，对吗？ 答：对不起。 问：钱从一个账户中转出并进入了HCHK，对吗？ 答：你说的是哪个农场，哪个交易？ 问：我这样问吧。破产受托人要追回钱并还给债权人，这是你的理解，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：其中一个债权人是HAA，对吗？ 答：不是。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第126/页 费根森律师说：已经问过并回答过。 法官说：支持异议。 问：破产受托人在2024年2月起诉了HAA，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：在2024年2月，你控制了HAA，对吗？ 答：什么日期？ 问：2024年2月。现在是6月。 答：是的。 问：2月、3月、4月、5月、6月。 答：是的。 问：所以在2024年2月，破产受托人起诉了HAA，对吗？ 答：我不知道你说的“起诉”是什么意思。哪个案件？ 问：提起了一项民事诉讼，要求从HAA收回钱？ 答：是的。 问：对。即使他们提起了诉讼，你从未将任何钱从HAA转给受托人，对吗？ 答：对不起。我从未做什么？ 施洛夫律师说：对不起，请你再读一遍问题。 （记录被读出） 答：没有。 问：对。而是，你在2024年5月把HAA的资产转给了其他人，对吗？让我提醒你，在2024年 5月？ 答：是的。 问：好的。所以在2024年5月，你把它转给了其他人，对吗？那是谁？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第127/页 答：我不知道。联盟决定的。 问：我没问你是谁决定的。我只是问你把基金转给了谁？ 答：我不知道。 问：你不知道？ 答：我只是让他们接管。我不想再参与了。 问：但他们没有接管你，对吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，我认为我们已经讨论过了。 施洛夫律师说：我们没有。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：你的问题是什么？我把一切都告诉了卢克。他知道。 问：谁是杜克？ 答：卢克卢克·德斯宾。 问：我没问你是否做过这些，所以我请求删除。 我的问题是，女士，你是否完全将HAA转让给了其他人？ 答：是的。 问：好的。那不是卢克卢克·德斯宾，对吗，那是其他人？不是卢克，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：不是破产受托人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。你告诉这些检察官你做了这些，对吗？ 答：做了什么？ 问：转款 ？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第128/页 问：在2024年5月，你告诉了费根森先生，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这就是为什么他在你的不予起诉协议中包括了HAA，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他不是在第一稿中，而是在最终版本中包括了这一点，因为你指出它不在第一版本中， 对吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，关于她与她的律师讨论的内容，我提出异议。 施洛夫律师说：我说的是她的讨论—— 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：你能再说一遍吗？ 问：他们给了你一份不予起诉协议的草案，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：HAA没有被提及，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后他们给了你最终版本，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他们在里面加上了HAA，对吗？ 你把HAA也涵盖进去了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在直接询问中作证说，在与FBI会面后，你辞去了职位，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你还作证说，在你辞职后，警察出现了，对吗？你说中国警察出现了？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第129/页 答：是的。 问：你作证说他们出现并说他们是在国家安全部的命令下行动，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：国家安全部是那些一直骚扰郭先生的人，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：他不是在很多次直播中对你说过这些吗，当时你听了？ 答：当时我不知道这是否是真的。 问：我没有问你是否是真的。我问的是郭先生说过这些吗？ 答：他以前说过。 问：所以你明白我问的与你回答的区别吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人—— MS.施洛夫：我撤回这个问题。 问：根据你昨天的证词，你认为是郭先生派国家安全部去拜访你的亲戚吗？这是你的证词 吗？ 费根森律师说：这是对证词的曲解。 法官说：支持异议。那不是她的证词。 问：你认为是谁派国家安全部去拜访你的亲戚？ 答：中共。 问：你认为是中共派他们去的？ 你认为中共派国家安全部去拜访你的亲戚是因为你在与FBI交谈并准备作证反对郭 先生，对吗？ 费根森律师说：再次反对，问题形式不当。她已经回答了这个问题，现在是复合问 题。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第130/页 法官说：支持异议。 问：国家安全部拜访了你的家人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你认为是中共派他们去的？ 答：是的。 问：中共是郭先生的敌人吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：那么现在你认为郭先生是中共的间谍吗？ 答：什么？对不起。 问：那么现在你认为郭先生是中共的代理人吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：李女士，你昨天的部分证词是你从联盟那里收到了喜币，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这不是你从农场成员那里收到的唯一货币，对吗？ 答：我不明白。你是什么意思？ 问：你从美国和日本的成员那里收到了钱，对吗？他们把钱汇给了HAA，对吗？ 答：日本农场和美国农场，是的。 问：他们汇了钱，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是以美元形式的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：不是喜币，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第131/页 问：你收到了这些钱来为那些无法直接购买喜币的成员购买喜币，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这样做之后，你收取了费用，对吗？ 答：我收取了什么？ 问：费用，费用，F-E-E，就像是一种收费？ 答：没有。 问：你的证词是你没有收取3%的费用给HAA？ 答：没有，零。 问：你没有收取3%的费用，这是你的证词？ 答：没有，Hamilton收取，不是我。 问：不，不。 费根森律师说：法官大人，她不能争论。她可以问问题，证人已经回答了。 法官说：不要作证。 问：HAA收取了3%的费用，对吗？ 答：没有。 费根森律师说：已经问过并回答过。 法官说：支持异议。 问：钱转到了HAA，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你的证词是整个金额没有扣除费用就被转移了？ 答：是的。 问：你收到—— 答：我在长岛Changdao兄弟的指示下转移的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第132/页 问：所以现在不是在郭先生的指示下，是在长岛David的指示下？ 答：郭先生给了长岛Changdao指示，而长岛Changdao给了我指示。 问：好的。并且这些问题都不是我问你的，对吗？你现在自愿提供了这些信息？ 费根森律师说：反对。 法官说：律师。 问：你从农场成员那里收到了钱到你的Archwood基金，对吗？ 答：对不起。 问：你记得你有一个Archwood基金吗？ 答：是的。 问：对，你记得吗？ 答：是的。 问：它收到了钱，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：以美元形式，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：其他货币呢？ 答：没有。 问：只是美元，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你的证词是，即使你在管理基金，你也没有收取费用，对吗？ 答：那个基金收取了费用。 问：基金收取了—— 答：收取了管理费，是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第133/页 问：Archwood基金？ 答：是的。 问：收取了管理费？ 答：是的。 问：3%？ 答：我不记得确切的比例。 问：你不记得？ 答：是的，但确实收取了费用，我不记得是不是3%。 问：我不再重复问了，但你是设立Archwood基金的人，对吗？ 答：代表郭文贵。 问：当然，但你是管理这个基金的人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：钱到了你这里，对吗？ 答：不是到我这里，是到联盟。 问：不，不。 答：不是到我，不是我个人。 法官说：不要作证。 问：钱到了HAA基金，对吗？ 费根森律师说：已经问过并回答过。 法官说：支持异议。 问：你用了这笔钱在两个基金中购买喜币，对吗？ 费根森律师说：我们现在在重复，法官大人。 法官说：支持异议。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第134/页 问：顺便问一下，你是否用Archwood的资金投资了一家银行？ 答：D2银行。 问：对不起。 答：D2银行。 问：所以答案是是的，你用Archwood基金的钱投资了一家数字银行，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这个数字银行的投资是以Archwood的名义进行的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：不是以那些投入资金的农场成员的名义，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你管理或控制的资金金额，仅代表郭文贵或联盟，肯定是以百万美元计的，对吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，这种评论是不必要的。 问：金额是以百万美元计的，对吗？ 答：800万。 问：你的证词是，对于这800万美元，你没有收取任何费用，对吗？ 费根森律师说：我们已经讨论过了。 答：我们收取了费用。 法官说：支持 异议。所以我们已经确定根据她的说法，她个人没有收取费用。 问：根据你的说法，基金收取了费用，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：现在，根据你与费根森先生和他的办公室达成的不予起诉协议，他们不会在这里起诉你 ，对吗？ 答：如果我说实话并提供证据。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第135/页 问：对。只要你做他们要求你做的事情，他们就会给你保障，对吗？ 答：不。 问：女士，他们已经通过不予起诉协议同意给你保障，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：作为不予起诉协议的结果，他们没有要求你上交任何钱，对吗？ 答：对不起。 问：他们没有要求你上交任何钱，对吗？ 答：你说上交什么钱？ 问：Archwood或HAA的任何钱，他们没有要求你上交任何钱，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：他们从未要求你上交任何喜币，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：现在他们已经给了你保障，美国政府已经给了你保障，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你作证说你曾经担心美国政府，对吗？ 你担心他们会逮捕你，对吗？ 答：因为长岛Changdao当时说，我相信FBI是中共的。 问：好的。但现在你不再担心这个，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：现在你担心的是中共，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：摆脱中共的最好方法是作证反对郭文贵，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第136/页 法官说：反对有效。 问：你能安全回到中国的唯一方法是断绝与郭文贵的关系，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。 法官说：我允许她回答这个问题。 答：不是。 法官说：下一个问题。 问：我可以给她看一下，我们称之为DX-7000。女士，你认得这是什么吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是什么？ 答：这是郭文贵的直播。 问：你以前看过，对吗？ 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：我请求将辩护方证据7000作为证据提交。 费根森律师说：没有异议。 法官说：准予接纳。 （被告方证据7000接纳为证据） 施洛夫律师说：我可以向陪审团展示吗，法官大人？ 法官说：可以。 问：请告诉我们，从左上角开始，那边的第一个人是谁？ 答：左边的是老班长。 问：那是谁？ 答：老班长曾经是铁血组的成员，也是新西兰农场的负责人。 问：他下面的是谁？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第137/页 答：如水。 问：如水是谁？ 答：如水也是铁血组的成员之一，是某个农场的负责人。 问：但现在我们还是回到你这里，如水。下面，告诉陪审团这两个人是谁？ 答：郝海东和叶钊颖。 问：我们先从男性开始。他是谁？左边照片里有两个人，对吗？ 答：郝海东和叶钊颖。 问：他是足球运动员，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是他的妻子，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：奥运羽毛球选手，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：中国的？ 答：是的 问：你今天坐在这里知道他们现在都住在西班牙，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：中间是两个人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我当然不需要你辨认郭文贵，但请告诉陪审团他旁边的是谁？ 答：长岛哥，长岛。 问：右边角落里的是谁？ 答：草根小哥。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第138/页 问：他是日本基金的负责人吗？ 答：日本基金和铁血组的成员。 问：所以到目前为止有一、二、三、四、五、六、七个人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是美国之音周年纪念活动的照片，对吗，2017年4月19日的采访周年纪念，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在这个会议中，唯一因为担心中共而没有露面的人是你吗？ 答：我只是不想露面。 问：确切地说，因为你担心中共，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你担心中共会将你与他的运动联系起来，对吗？ 答：他们已经联系起来了。 问：对。而你与他撇清关系的最佳方式就是在这里作证反对他，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：这难道不是一种与他撇清关系的方式吗？ 答：那是因为他做了错事。他偷了别人的钱。那不一样。 问：但那是你的看法，对吗，他偷了钱？ 答：这是事实。 问：你认为这是事实，女士？ 答：是的。 问：根据你的看法，这是事实，对吗？ 答：根据我的个人经历。 问：确切地说，只有你？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第139/页 费根森律师说：已经问过并回答过。 法官说：维持异议。 问：你是唯一一个没有露面的人，对吗？ 费根森律师说：已经问过并回答过。 法官说：维持异议。 问：那是木兰的头像，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那个想要像男人一样战斗的女人，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你回到中国的最安全方式是说，我与他无关？ 费根森律师说：已经问过并回答过。 答：不是。 法官说：维持异议。 答：我来这里并且露面了。 法官说：继续下一个问题。 问：你来到这里并露面作证反对郭文贵，对吗？ 答：我只是说实话。 费根森律师说：她应该被允许回答提出的问题，法官大人。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我只有一个最后的问题。 法官说：好的。 问：当你与他的运动有关联时，你从未露过面，对吗？ 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：没有进一步的问题。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第140/页 法官说：重新询问。 费根森律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 重新询问 由检方费根森律师进行： 问：下午好，李女士？ 答：下午好，费根森。 问：你被问到了一些关于法治基金每月支付1万美元的问题。你记得这些问题吗？ 答：是的。 问：那么首先，这些每月1万美元的付款大约是从什么时候开始的？ 答：从2021年7月。 问：我们稍后会回到这些付款的问题。但在那之前，你为郭文贵做志愿者大约有多长时间 了？ 答：大约四年。 问：你为郭文贵志愿工作时，每天工作多少小时？ 答：很多小时。 问：你在周末也工作吗？ 答：每天都工作。 问：你在晚上也工作吗？ 答：是的。 问：在2021年7月，你要求开始领取工资吗？ 答：没有。 问：是什么导致了这些每月1万美元的付款？ 答：从那时起，郭文贵要求每个农场负责人和铁血组成员都需要全职为联盟工作。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第141/页 问：在2021年7月之前，你有一份有薪水的会计工作吗？ 答：是的。 问：当郭文贵说你必须全职为联盟工作时，你的反应是什么？ 答：我说我仍然可以做志愿者工作，但他坚持说你应该辞掉工作，为我全职工作。 问：他告诉你之后，你你了什么？ 答：所以第二天我就去公司，说我辞职，我不干了。 问：你每个月领取1万美元的工资有多长时间了？ 答：大约一年。 问：这笔1万美元的付款是只给你一个人，还是给所有铁血组成员？ 答：给所有铁血组成员。 问：你还作证说，大约一年后，付款变成了喜币，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：当郭开始用喜币支付农场负责人时，他有没有提到喜马拉雅交易所的银行账户被美国 政府查封的事情？ 答：是的，大概在同一时间。所以喜马拉雅交易所无法正常运作。 问：当他开始用喜币支付时，他有没有告诉他们银行账户已经被查封了？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，法官大人。这歪曲了证据中的事实。没有证据表明郭先生没有 支付。 法官说：驳回反对。 问：当郭在2022年晚些时候开始用喜币支付农场领袖时，他是否透露喜马拉雅交易所的银 行账户已被查封？ 答：没有。 问：顺便问一下，李女士，你现在的工作是什么？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第142/页 答：会计。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以发布政府证据VI-114。李女士，这是Ampleforth Capital LTD的 认购文件。你记得在交叉询问中被问到关于这个文件的问题吗？ 答：记得。 问：你还被问到政府在会议上是否向你展示了这个文件。你记得吗？ 答：是的。 问：你最初是否将这个文件交给了政府？ 答：是的，我把它发给了政府。 问：你被问及是否与政府一起查看了其他文件，你是否也在第一次时就将这些文件交给了 政府？ 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：哪些文件，法官大人？ 费根森律师说：她在交叉询问中被问到的那些文件。 答：是的，我给了美国政府。 问：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以的话，请公开政府证据VI-29。李女士，这是你为郭文贵转 录和翻译的语音信息。你记得在交叉询问时被问及这个问题吗？ 答：记得。 问：你被问到关于G-Clubs的相关问题，你记得吗？ 答：记得。 问：Aaron Mitchell是否是G-Clubs的律师。你记得这些问题吗？ 答：记得。 问：李女士，让我读一下A段：家族基金出价最终为2600万美元。这段话说的是G/Club出价 还是家族基金出价？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第143/页 答：家族基金。 问：当你收到这个文件时，你认为是G-Clubs在为这栋2600万美元的豪宅出价吗？ 答：没有。 问：我们可以把它撤下来了，洛夫特斯女士。李女士，你还被问到关于黑名单的问题。你记 得被问到这些问题吗？ 答：记得。 问：你能向陪审团解释一下黑名单的运作方式吗？ 答：如果有人公开批评郭文贵、联盟或新中国联邦，我们会将他们列入黑名单，并得到郭文 贵的批准。然后会有一个Gettr账号公开展示黑名单。 问：李女士，你还被问到关于抗议的问题。你记得被问到抗议的问题吗？ 答：记得。 问：谁选择了抗议的目标？ 答：郭文贵。 问：谁对暴力行为表示赞许？ 答：郭文贵。 问：你还被问到张勇兵威胁你的问题。你记得这些问题吗？ 答：记得。 问：为什么你觉得自己被威胁要被踢出这个运动？你能向陪审团解释一下为什么你有这种 感觉吗？ 答：因为他让我对那3800万美元负全责。我无法偿还。如果我们输了这个案子，我无法偿 还那么多钱。我没有那么多钱，我只有一条命，他们可以拿走。 问：我不会再问你更多关于这个问题的问题了。你还被问到美国破产受托人起诉你的问 题。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第144/页 答：是的。 问：李女士，你是否在与美国破产受托人合作？ 答：是的。 问：你有任何正式协议吗，还是只是根据要求提供帮助？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，复合问题。 法官说：请拆开问。 问：你能描述一下你如何帮助破产受托人吗？ 答��我自愿联系了破产受托人卢克·德斯宾，并向他解释了发生的事情，以及我提供给他的 每一份文件。 问：李女士，你记得被问到关于Archwood基金的问题吗？ 答：记得。 问：是谁让你设立Archwood基金的？ 答：郭文贵。 问：Archwood基金是用来做什么的？ 答：做GTV银行投资。 问：这是郭文贵的投资项目吗？ 答：是的。 问：李女士，你记得昨天在交叉询问中被问及关于与政府的会议、电子邮件或电话的问题 吗？ 答：记得。 问：你记得与政府开会吗？ 答：记得。 问：你记得向政府发送邮件吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第145/页 答：记得。 问：你记得与FBI通电话吗？ 答：记得。 问：你记得与政府开会的所有确切日期吗？ 答：不记得。 问：你记得发送给政府的每封邮件的确切日期吗？ 答：不记得。 问：你记得与FBI通话的每个确切日期吗？ 答：不记得。 问：李女士，当你与政府会面时，政府有没有告诉你在证词中做什么？ 答：我必须说实话。 问：根据你的不予起诉协议，当你作证时，你需要做什么？ 答：我必须说实话。 问：李女士，在你签署不起诉协议之前，为什么拒绝签署虚假宣誓书？ 答：因为那是假的。那是在对法庭撒谎。我不想做那样的事。 问：在你签署不起诉协议之前，为什么自愿前往美国作证？ 答：因为我想告诉法庭郭文贵误导了我，欺骗了我，对我撒谎。 问：李女士，你仍然相信中国的民主吗？ 答：是的。 问：你今天作证是因为中共强迫你作证吗？ 答：不是。甚至现在作证后，因为我露了面，我甚至面临更大的中共风险。 问：你昨天和今天以你的真实姓名作证了吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第146/页 问：你是否向这些陪审员展示了你的真实面容？ 答：是的。 问：在整个公开法庭上？ 答：是的。 问：李女士，你在证词中是否说了真话？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：没有更多问题了。 法官说：再交叉询问。 再交叉询问 由辩方施洛夫律师进行： 问：你把文件交给了检察官，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你保留了所有这些文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 由辩方施洛夫律师继续询问： 问：你把这些文件寄给了他，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在寄给他之前，你读过这些文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在寄给他之前，你读过这些文件，然后与他讨论过，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你决定保存哪些文件，对吗？ 答：我决定的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第147/页 问：对。你决定删除哪些文件，对吗？ 答：我没有删除。 问：你没有给他关于HAA管理费的文件，对吗？ 答：对不起？ 问：你给他提供了关于HAA内部运作的文件吗？ 答：是的。 问：真的？你给了他这些文件。 费根森律师说：反对“真的”这个评论。 问：你的证词是你给了检察官关于HAA基金内部运作的文件？ 费根森律师说：已经问过并回答过。 法官说：已经问过并回答过。 答：你指的是什么文件？ 法官说：你不需要回答。 问：关于Archwood，你给他们提供了你与Archwood签署的任何合同吗？ 答：是的。 问：你把这些文件给了他？ 答：是的。 问：你把与经营Archwood有关的电子邮件交流交给了他，这位检察官，对吗？ 答：你能再说一遍吗？ 问：检察官问了你关于一个叫Mahwah的地方的问题。 施洛夫律师说：我们可以再给她看一下吗。 问：是这个文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第148/页 问：你在准备时和费根森先生讨论这份文件多少次了？ 答：我不记得了。 施洛夫律师说：我可以给她看第二页吗？ 问：你看到上面的第1点了吗？“这所房子不能再有任何关于居住或使用的限制。”对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这一点是说想买这栋房子的人不希望被限制只能作为住宅使用，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。 答：我不知道。 法官说：维持反对。 问：你对第1点的理解是什么？ 答：我不知道，我只是翻译。 问：所以你今天坐在这里，对第1点没有理解，对吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：已经问过并回答过。 法官说：维持反对。 问：你在重新询问时作证提到一个数字银行项目，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道这个项目是否还在进行吗？ 答：不，因为—— 问：对不起，你不知道？ 答：它已经被美国司法部查封了。 问：我没有问你钱是否被查封；我在问你数字银行的项目是否还在进行中。 费根森律师说：她已经回答了这个问题，法官大人。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第149/页 答：不。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：不。 问：你不知道，是因为你不再参与这个项目了，对吗？ 答：它已经停止了，结束了。 问：你不再是这个运动的一部分了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你不知道这个运动现在发生了什么，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你不知道，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的，现在—— 答：这个项目，我知道，已经停止了。我们把它转给了Hamilton基金—— 施洛夫律师说：请求删除。 法官说：没有任何待处理的问题。这些评论将被删除。 问：你刚才作证说你被给了一份虚假的宣誓书，并且你拒绝签署，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后你进一步作证说你想来这里作证，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：检察官问你是否使用了真实的面容，对吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第150/页 问：他问你是否使用了真实的声音，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那就是你所做的—— 费根森律师说：我没有问过这个问题。 法官说:继续。 施洛夫律师说：他说了什么？ 问：真实姓名。你是以真实姓名作证，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：真实姓名和真实面容，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我只想非常明确地问——你是在作证反对郭文贵，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：你是在为他作证吗？ 答：我作证是为了说出真相。 问：你已经说过了。我的问题是—— 费根森律师说：法官大人，已经问过并回答过。她已经回答了这个问题。 施洛夫律师说：不，她实际上没有。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：请重复你的问题。 问：你是在为政府作证反对郭文贵。 答：不是。 施洛夫律师说：好的。我没有其他问题了。谢谢你，法官大人。 费根森律师说：没有进一步的问题。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第151/页 法官说：谢谢。你可以离开了。 （证人离席） SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第152/页 法官说：检察官可以传唤下一个证人。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我们能有一分钟的时间吗？ 法官说：可以。 施洛夫律师说：谢谢。 芬克律师说：法官大人，政府传唤Lonny Soza。 书记员：请将麦克风拉近你，举起右手。 （证人宣誓） 书记员：谢谢。 法官说：请说出你的姓名并拼写出来。 证人：Lonny, L-O-N-N-Y, Soza, S-O-Z-A。 法官说：请对着麦克风说话并提高声音，让每个人都能听到。 证人：Lonny, L-O-N-N-Y, Soza, S-O-Z-A。 法官说：你可以提问了。 芬克律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 Lonny Soza，作为政府证人，被宣誓后作如下证词： 直接询问 由芬克律师进行： 问：下午好，Soza先生。我只是想请你把麦克风对准你的嘴。你可以随意移动麦克风和椅子 ，把麦克风对准你的嘴，这样大家都能听清楚，好吗？ 答：好的。 问：你在哪里工作？ 答：Post Oak Motor Cars。 问：Post Oak Motor Cars在哪里？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第153/页 答：在德克萨斯州休斯顿。 问：Post Oak Motor Cars是什么？ 答：是一家豪华汽车经销商。 问：你在Post Oak Motor Cars的职位是什么？ 答：我是总裁和总经理。 问：Post Oak销售什么类型的汽车？ 答：新车。我们销售布加迪、劳斯莱斯、宾利和Karma。 问：Karma是什么？ 答：是一款全电动汽车。 问：布加迪是什么？ 答：布加迪是一款我们称之为超跑或超级跑车的车辆，非常独特且生产量非常低。 问：我只是想请你把麦克风对准你的嘴，好吗？ 答：这样可以吗？ 问：是的，这样更好。 问：你称它为超跑吗？ 答：我们称之为超跑或超级跑车。 问：你能向陪审团解释一下什么是超跑吗？ 答：超跑通常是一种独特类型的车辆，比如兰博基尼或法拉利，麦克拉伦。它们是高端车 辆。布加迪有些不同，因为其生产量更少。 法官说：每年生产多少辆？ 证人：我不知道每年多少辆，但他们只生产500辆布加迪。他们从2018年开始生产，全球范 围内只生产500辆，，从2018年到2025年分批生产。 问：布加迪多少钱？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第154/页 答：通常在，刚投产时2.9百万美元起价，但很容易超过5百万美元。 问：这是指一辆车？ 答：一辆车。 问：你能描述——嗯，撤回。 问：G-Clubs有没有购买过Post Oak Motors的布加迪？ 答：是的。 问：你能向陪审团成员描述购买布加迪的过程是怎样的吗？ 答：这是一个有点独特的过程，不是典型的购车流程。车辆是根据每个客户的要求定制的， 所以最初需要支付一笔定金，以保留购买这500辆中的一辆的资格。然后，当客户的车辆开 始生产时，需要配置车辆，也就是确定车辆的各项配置，这需要支付第二笔定金。从车辆开 始生产到最终完成大约需要十个月时间，然后在这最后的十个月，车辆完成并全额支付，之 后交付给客户。 问：当你说交付给客户时，是什么意思？ 答：它会先交付到我们的店里，然后我们再把车辆卖给客户。 问：你还提到布加迪是定制的。你能解释一下在布加迪的背景下这是什么意思吗？ 答：定制意味着完全按照客户的要求打造。如果你想创造自己的颜色、主题、皮革或皮革配 置，你都可以做到。除了改变车身外，几乎没有什么限制。 问：在美国有多少家经销商销售布加迪？ 答：我相信有14家。 问：Post Oak是其中之一吗？ 答：我们是其中之一。 问：三州地区有经销商吗？ 答：我认为离这里最近的是在康涅狄格州。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第155/页 问：H.R. Owen是什么？ 答：H.R. Owen是一家总部位于伦敦的豪华汽车经销商，他们也销售布加迪，还有宾利和劳 斯莱斯。 问：H.R. Owen在2021年秋季向Post Oak推荐了什么业务？ 答：H.R. Owen有一位客户，他们想要一辆符合美国规格的布加迪，但他们不能对海外销售 或出口，所以他们问我们是否可以代表他们销售车辆，并与他们分利润。 问：为什么H.R. Owen不能销售美国车辆？ 答：这些车辆必须符合美国的道路法规才能在美国上路。 问：符合道路法规是什么意思？ 答：基本上是指使车辆符合美国国家公路和安全运输要求，使其可以在美国道路上行驶。 问：你同意接手H.R. Owen的这位客户吗？ 答：是的，我同意了。 问：客户的名字是什么？ 答：郭强。 问：Guo怎么拼写？ 答：G-U-O。 问：你对Mileson的需求有什么理解？ 答：只是想要一辆符合美国规格的车。 问：为什么？ 答：为了他在美国的家或其中一个家。 问：那房子在哪里？ 答：最初我理解是在康涅狄格州。 问：你见过郭强吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第156/页 答：没有，先生。 问：在2021年秋季，你对郭强的了解是什么？ 答：当时我们只知道他是一个亿万富翁，想买另一辆超级跑车。 问：谁处理了这辆Mileson布加迪的配置和定制规格，是H.R. Owen还是Post Oak？ 答：H.R. Owen。 问：谁为这辆郭强的布加迪付款？ 答：G Club International。 问：在2021年秋季，你对G Club International的了解是什么？ 答：只是他的一家公司。 问：你与G Club的任何人有过交流吗？ 答：有，我与G Club International的CEO交流过。 问：他叫什么名字？ 答：Limarie Reyes Molinaris。 问：你与G Club的其他人有过交流吗？ 答：没有，从G Club没有。 问：你还与其他人讨论过这辆布加迪吗？ 答：在交易的最后阶段，有一位名叫何先生的人。 问：何先生？ 答：是的。 问：何先生的名字是什么？ 答：我不知道。 芬克律师说：法官大人，我可以上前吗？ 法官说：可以。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第157/页 芬克律师说：向证人递送了一本文件夹。 问：请你翻阅一下这个文件夹。 芬克律师说：记录显示，这个文件夹包含政府证据226-233，240，243，和244-249。 问：Soza先生，你以前见过这个文件夹吗？ 答：见过。 问：你什么时候见过它？ 答：今天早些时候。 问：这个文件夹里有什么？ 答：这些是通过电子邮件进行的通信，以及订购布加迪的合同和车辆的实际配置。 问：有任何财务文件吗？ 答：有的。有电汇交易的记录。 问：关于通信，这些通信是谁与谁之间的？ 答：我自己、G Club的Limarie，以及H.R. Owen。 问：财务文件来自哪里？ 答：来自我的办公室。 问：你的办公室是否在正常业务过程中保留财务文件？ 答：是的。 问：在正常业务过程中？ 答：是的。 芬克律师说：法官大人，政府提供证据GX 226-233, 240, 243,和244-249。 巴尔坎先生说：没有异议，法官大人。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第158/页 法官说：准予接纳。 （政府证据226-233, 240, 243,和244-249被接纳为证据） 芬克律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 由芬克律师继续询问： 问：Soza先生，顺便问一下，H.R. Owen位于哪里？ 答：英国伦敦。 问：你提到你在2021年秋季了解到G-Clubs是他的公司，对吗？ 答：对。 问：是谁的公司？ 答：郭先生的。 芬克律师说：好，如果我们可以展示一下洛夫特斯女士——对不起，Gartland先生 ——作为证据的政府证据226。 请发布。 问：Soza先生，你认得这个文件吗？ 答：认得。 问：这是什么？ 答：这是订购布加迪的初始合同。 芬克律师说：好的，请放大上半部分，Gartland先生。 问：买家是谁？ 答：G Club International Ltd。 问：为什么写的是G Club International Ltd，而不是郭强？ 答：因为我们理解这是由他的公司购买的。 问：这在你的业务中是常见的吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第159/页 答：这是非常常见的情况。 问：为什么？ 答：我们经常看到车辆是由公司、教会和其他实体购买的。 问：好的。 答：非常常见。 问：右边写着订购车辆是布加迪Chiron超级跑车，对吗？ 答：对。 问：你能向陪审团解释一下Chiron超级跑车是什么吗？ 答：Chiron是目前正在制造的500辆布加迪之一。超级跑车是这500辆车的一种版本。我不 知道他们具体制造了多少，但假设是500辆车中的一个比例。 问：布加迪在哪里制造？ 答：在法国Molsheim。 芬克律师说：好，我们可以缩小。 请翻到第二页。 请放大2a的上面部分。 问：请Soza先生向陪审团解释一下这辆车的基础价格是多少。 答：基础价格是382.5万美元。 问：这是一个协商的价格吗？ 答：不是。 问：谁定价？ 答：布加迪。 问：价格取决于什么？你之前说过有一个范围。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第160/页 答：早期的Chiron车型基础价格是290万美元；到超级跑车时，基础价格已经上升到382.5万 美元。 芬克律师说：请缩小。如果我们可以看第4页。 问：在第4段，Soza先生，有初始付款、第二次付款和最终付款。你能解释一下这是怎么回事 吗？ 答：初始付款是定金，表明你是一个承诺的买家，并且在等待分配的位置。当布加迪分配你 的车辆建造位置时，需要第二笔定金，以及签署的配置文件，表明这就是车辆的规格。接着 车辆开始建造完成并进行最终测试时，需要全额付款，之后车辆会从制造商那里运到店里。 芬克律师说：如果我们可以看第7页，Gartland先生。 请稍微向下滚动，以便我们能看到第7和第8页。很好。 问：你看到第11段，Soza先生？它写着“合规/制裁名单”？ 答：看到了。 问：这一段的目的是什么？ 答：如果有任何客户在任何制裁名单上,在我的领域里，我们会查看一个叫做-对不起，我现 在词穷了-叫OFAC的系统，它会告诉我们是否可以与某个特定方进行业务往来，这基本上 就是一个不允许我们做生意的名单。 问：这次购买，Post Oak是否进行了尽职调查和OFAC检查？ 答：是的。 问：有任何问题吗？ 答：没有，先生。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第161/页 芬克律师说：如果我们可以看第10页，Gartland先生。 问：谁签署了这份合同？ 答：Limarie Reyes，来自G Club International，还有我自己。 问：你对Reyes女士签署这份合同而不是郭强有什么理解吗？ 答：她是公司的CEO，这对我们来说是很正常的交易方式，公司代表会购买车辆。 问：代表谁的公司？ 答：任何公司的代表。 问：在这种情况下，代表谁的公司？ 答：郭先生的公司代表。 芬克律师说：好。如果我们可以看政府证据227，它已作为证据提交。 问：这上面的文件是你发给Reyes女士的电子邮件吗？ 答：对。 问：你在这封邮件中附上了什么？ 答：这是我们所说的规格。这是车辆的配置。 芬克律师说：请滚动下去，Gartland先生。 继续。 就在这里。 问：陪审团看到的这一页是什么？ 答：这是Chiron超级跑车价格的摘要页，还有一个车辆的数字图像。 问：那是车辆的图像吗？ 答：对。 问：这是车辆设计后的计算机化规格图。 答：对。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第162/页 问：客户姓名是什么？ 答：郭强。 芬克律师说：请再放大一下。 问：然后下面，你说的是郭强，对吗？ 答：对的。 问：这里有基础价格、选项和总价格。这是在发生什么？ 答：基础价格是车的基本价格，不包括任何个人定制的部分。在这种情况下，额外的选项费 用为599,800美元。 问：所以总价格是多少？ 答：4,424,800美元。 问：额外选项的费用不到60万美元，你的理解是谁选择了这些额外选项？ 答：郭先生。 芬克律师说：请往下滚动，Gartland先生，到下一页。 继续滚动。 请继续，我们要到第7页。 芬克律师说：请慢慢滚动接下来的几页。 问：在他滚动时，Soza先生，你能向陪审团解释一下我们在看什么吗？ 答：这些是车辆建造时的数字渲染图。 芬克律师说：停在这里。 问：这是什么铭牌？ 答：所有布加迪都有这个铭牌，表明这是500辆中的一辆。它不会告诉你在序列中的具体编 号，但它是500辆中的一辆。 问：这辆郭强的布加迪是第几号布加迪？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第163/页 答：这实际上是第400号，巧合的是。 芬克律师说：如果我们现在可以看政府证据230。 问：Soza先生，请注意第二封电子邮件，日期是2021年11月12日。你对Reyes女士在这封邮 件中传达的信息有何理解？ 答：她确认所选择的配置已被接受和批准。 问：这封电子邮件的主题是什么？ 答：主题是Chiron超级跑车郭强版本1的配置表。 问：在发送这份配置表后有做任何更改吗？ 答：我认为没有。 芬克律师说：如果我们可以看政府证据232。 问：第一封电子邮件是Reyes女士发给你的，日期是2021年11月30日，你对Reyes女士在这 封邮件中传达的信息有何理解？ 答：我们收到了第二笔车辆的定金或电汇，有时候我们很难确定电汇的来源或分配给哪辆 车，因为金额很大，内部我们只能把它与这辆车联系起来，所以我询问Reyes女士是否他们 寄来了这笔钱，以确认它已收到或用于购买布加迪。 问：她确认了吗？ 答：她确认了。 问：电汇金额是多少？ 答：1,150,000美元。 问：这封电子邮件的主题是什么？ 答：Chiron超级跑车郭强版本1的配置表。 芬克律师说：如果我们可以看GX 233。 请往下滚动。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第164/页 问：这是什么文件？ 答：这是最终发票，要求支付布加迪的最终付款，因为它已经完成了制造过程。 问：郭强的公司是否全额支付了这辆布加迪？ 答：最终是的。是的。 问：是现金支付还是贷款支付？ 答：都是电汇。 问：布加迪是否曾经交付到Post Oak？ 答：是的，车辆是从制造商那里运到Post Oak的。 芬克律师说：法官大人，我可以再上前吗？ 法官说：你们提供融资吗？ 证人：实际上有为这些车提供融资的独特计划，但只是针对最终付款。 问：Soza先生，我递给你一堆文件，稍后我会说明。如果你能看一下这些文件。 芬克律师说：法官大人，记录显示，这些是政府证据202-223。 问：Soza先生，你认得这些图像吗？ 答：认得。 问：它们是什么？ 答：它们是车辆的实物图像。 问：实际的布加迪图像？ 答：布加迪Chiron超级跑车。 芬克律师说：政府提供证据202-223。 巴尔坎律师：没有异议，法官大人。 法官说：准予接纳。 （政府证据202-223被接纳为证据） SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第165/页 芬克律师说：Gartland先生，如果我们可以发布政府证据218。 问：政府证据218是什么？ 答：这是布加迪Chiron超级跑车。 问：这是郭强订购的吗？ 答：是的，先生。 芬克律师说：我们能看一下216和205吗？ 问：这张照片是在哪里拍的？ 答：这是在我们店的车间里拍的。 问：这辆车配备了什么样的轮胎？ 答：它们是专为这款车制造的米其林轮胎。 问：更换这些轮胎需要多少钱？ 答：大约10,000美元。 问：车主需要多久更换一次10,000美元的轮胎？ 答：通常每500英里左右更换一次。 问：为什么轮胎只行驶500英里就需要更换？ 答：我相信这是为了车辆的性能。橡胶通常较软，所以会磨损得更快，基于车的驾驶方式。 问：这种车辆还需要进行哪些保养？ 答：每年需要进行一次维护。 问：这需要多少钱？ 答：大约80,000美元。 问：年维护包括哪些内容？ 答：基本上，车辆的后半部分会被拆卸，许多管道和密封件会被更换。大约有一个箱子，一 托盘的机械材料会放回车内。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第166/页 问：普通的汽车服务店能维修布加迪吗？ 答：不能，先生。 问：据你所知，纽约市附近的布加迪维修店在哪里？ 答：格林威治，康涅狄格州。 芬克律师说：我们能看一下政府证据209吗？ 问：这辆车交付时行驶了多少英里？ 答：245英里。 问：为什么有这么多？ 答：作为车辆质量检查的一部分，布加迪会在实际道路上进行测试，基本上会在交付给客户 之前对车辆进行磨合，所以交付时已经可以直接驾驶。 问：你对布加迪客户提供的建议是什么，他们每年应该行驶多少英里？ 答：有两种观点。一种是，如果你是收藏家，尽量少行驶；另一种是，车是用来开的，可以在 世界任何地方驾驶。 问：这辆车的最高速度是多少？ 答：这款车型接近300英里每小时，但它们确实有一种车型可以超过300英里每小时。 问：如果你是收藏家，你想尽量少开车。你是什么意思？如果你是收藏家，你是什么意思？ 答：这些车被期望升值，所以显然行驶里程越少，随着车龄的增加，价值应越高，这是理论 上的。 问：你会向某些客户宣传这种车作为一种投资吗？ 答：我们不宣传它作为投资，但我们确实会与客户讨论这个话题。 问：在这个特定案例中，你与郭强讨论过这个话题吗？ 答：我从未与郭强交谈过。 问：与Limarie Reyes讨论过吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第167/页 答：没有。 芬克律师说：我们能看一下政府证据202和201吗？ 问：Soza先生，政府证据202中的盒子和打开的201中的盒子是什么？ 答：这是钥匙盒。它装有车辆的高级钥匙，还有一把超级钥匙，用于解锁车辆的更高性能， 如果你要在赛道上驾驶的话。 问：如果丢失了超级钥匙，更换需要多少钱？ 答：更大的钥匙大约需要10,000美元。 芬克律师说：好，我们可以拿下这个。 问：你提到过一个叫何先生的人，对吗？ 答：对的。 问：你曾与他进行过任何形式的交流吗？ 答：我们确实交流过；几封电子邮件，还有几次电话。 问：总体上，你与何先生讨论的内容是什么？ 答：确定车辆最终注册的位置，以便我们计算税费和注册，并进行最终交付。 问：为什么你开始与何先生而不是Reyes女士讨论？ 答：我被指示——我试图完成这笔交易，在某个时间点，Reyes女士的响应不如以前，然后 何先生出现了，讨论车辆交付的选项。 问：何先生说了什么关于税费的事情？ 答：他想知道在哪里可以注册车辆，并基本上支付尽可能少的或没有税费。 问：你给何先生提供了什么建议吗？ 答：我告诉他我不能就这个具体问题给他提供指导。 问：你有这辆车在你的停车场，对吗？ 答：对的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第168/页 问：何先生想来你这里提车吗？ 答：不。他们——我说“他们”。他问我们是否可以把车辆运到国外。 芬克律师说：如果我们能看一下作为证据提交的政府证据240。 请放大这封邮件，Gartland先生。 问：这封邮件的日期是什么？ 答：这是2023年2月9日。 问：你能读一下第一句话吗？哦，抱歉。这封邮件是谁发的？ 答：这是何先生发的。 问：他的电子邮件地址是什么？ 答：是[email protected]。 问：你能读一下他写给你的第一句话吗？ 答：“我们已经准备好了注册公司。请告诉我你需要哪些信息来注册。” 问：然后是第二段。 答：“关于交付，我们计划用这辆车进行旅行，能否给我们提供从美国到英国、瑞士、迪拜和 阿布扎比的运输报价，临时进口时间不超过6个月，如果你们提供这项服务的话。” 问：你去过阿布扎比吗？ 答：我没去过阿布扎比。 问：你去过迪拜吗？ 答：我去过迪拜。 问：你对何先生为什么想把这辆车运到瑞士、迪拜或阿布扎比有何理解？ 答：我不清楚，只知道他们想在美国以外的地方提车。 问：如果Post Oak愿意，是否可以将这辆布加迪Chiron超级跑车运到外国？ 答：不，我们不能。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第169/页 问：为什么不行？ 答：因为我们不出口车辆。 问：为什么不出口？ 答：这通常是制造商在我们的经销协议中限制我们这样做。 问：在此期间，到2023年2月9日，FBI是否曾联系过Post Oak？ 答：是的，先生。 问：最初，FBI要求Post Oak提供什么信息吗？ 答：他们传唤了所有与此交易相关的文件和通信记录。 问：Post Oak提供了这些文件吗？ 答：我们提供了。 问：在2023年2月期间，你是否仍与FBI保持联系？ 答：是的，我们保持联系。 问：还有美国检察官办公室吗？ 答：是的，先生。 问：是否有一次FBI带着搜查令回到Post Oak？ 答：是的，他们回来了。 问：你能告诉陪审团搜查令是为了什么吗？ 答：搜查令是为了在车辆上安装追踪装置。 问：哪辆车？ 答：布加迪Chiron超级跑车。 问：FBI做到了吗？ 答：他们做到了。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第170/页 问：在FBI在布加迪Chiron超级跑车上安装追踪装置之后，G-Clubs或郭强或何先生有人来 取车吗？ 答：没有，先生。 芬克律师说：我们能看一下政府证据223吗？ 问：Soza先生，我们在看什么？ 答：这是布加迪Chiron被装载进运输工具时的情景，当时它被扣押了。 问：谁扣押的？ 答：美国法警。 问：他们有搜查令吗？ 答：有的。 问：在扣押时，FBI是否要求你做其他事情？ 答：在扣押之前，他们让我通过电子邮件与何先生沟通。 问：你做了吗？ 答：我做了。 问：在你向何先生发送这些通信后，FBI是否要求你做其他事情？ 答：他们让我通过短信与他沟通。 问：你做了吗？ 答：没有。 问：为什么没有？ 答：我只是对这样做感到不舒服。 问：Post Oak在你被要求通过短信与何先生沟通后做了什么？ 答：我们向FBI提供了一个来有我们账户的手机。 问：你知道FBI对该账户做了什么吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第171/页 答：不知道。 问：你知道FBI是否与何先生进行过对话吗？ 答：不知道。 问：你知道何先生与郭强的关系吗？ 答：不知道。 问：或者与G-Clubs的关系？ 答：不，先生。 芬克律师说：如果我们能看一下政府证据GX VI35。它已作为证据提交，我们可以发 布吗？ 请放大顶部。 问：你能读一下顶部的句子吗？ 答：“唯一董事的书面决议。” 问：下一句呢？ 答：“自由媒体创投有限公司。” 问：你以前见过这份文件吗？ 答：没有，先生。 问：你能读一下“唯一董事的书面决议，自由媒体创投有限公司，以下简称公司”下面的句子 吗？ 答：“我，何先生，”你要我读下去吗？ 问：是的。 答：“——作为公司的唯一董事，该公司为根据英属维尔京群岛法律注册成立的股份有限公 司，注册地址为第二层水边大厦，Wickham's Cay II，Road Town Tortola，英属维尔京群岛 ，特此证明以下决议已解决：” SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第172/页 问：Post Oak从这辆布加迪超级跑车的销售中共收了多少钱？ 答：我相信是4.4百万多一点。 芬克律师说：没有更多问题了。谢谢。 法官说：交叉询问？ 巴尔坎先生说：是的，法官大人。 交叉询问 由巴尔坎先生说进行： 问：下午好，Soza先生。 答：下午好。 问：你是Post Oak Motors的总裁吗？ 答：对。 问：对，先生。你担任这个角色大约有七年了吗？ 答：对。 问：Post Oak销售高端汽车，对吗？ 答：对。 问：超级高端的汽车，对吗？ 法官说：请将麦克风拉近你。 巴尔坎先生说：对不起，法官大人。 问：Post Oak销售高端汽车，对吗？ 答：是的，先生。 问：超级高端汽车，对吗？ 答：正确。 问：包括布加迪，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第173/页 答：包括布加迪。 问：布加迪制造了世界上最快的汽车，对吗？ 答：在某个时间点上，是的。 问：超过每小时一千公里吗？ 答：我不知道公里。我知道的是英里。 问：Post Oak销售Chiron款跑车，对吗？ 答：正确。 问：数量非常有限？ 答：500辆。 问：对。你在直接询问中说过只会制造500辆，是吗？这些车非常抢手，对吗？ 答：我认为是这样。 问：你每年最多销售一两辆，对吗？ 答：正确。 问：G-Clubs订购的布加迪是500辆中的第400辆，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：可以说获得购买这辆特定汽车的机会是相当困难的，对吗？ 答：你指的是第400号车吗？ 问：是的。 答：我认为那是巧合。 问：是否可以说购买这500辆车中的任何一辆都很困难？ 答：取决于买家的财力。 问：你在直接询问中说过布加迪Chiron跑车的价值可能会升值，对吗？ 答：我们预期会是这样的情况。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第174/页 问：你在直接询问中说过这辆Chiron跑车最初是为郭强配置的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：由H.R. Owen配置的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你理解郭强是H.R. Owen的常客，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在直接询问中说过，你理解Mileson只是想要另一辆超级跑车，对吗？ 答：美国规格的车。 问：所以你的理解是，Mileson拥有其他超级跑车，对吗？ 答：那是我的理解，但我不直接知道。 问：你听说过一辆叫做Pagani Zonda的车吗？ 答：我不知道Zonda，但我知道Pagani这个品牌。 问：你知道Mileson定制了自己的Pagani Zonda吗？ 答：不知道。 问：客户被推荐给你们并不罕见，对吗？ 答：对，先生。 问：包括其他布加迪经销商推荐的客户，对吗？ 答：在美国境内没有。 问：在这里，H.R. Owen推荐购买Chiron给Post Oak，对吗？ 答：是的，先生。 问：因为你理解客户想在美国使用这辆车，对吗？ 答：正确。 问：这辆车是为在美国使用而设计的，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第175/页 答：是的，先生。 巴尔坎先生说：我们能看一下作为证据提交的政府证据226吗？ 可以放大上半部分吗？ 问：页面顶部写着“购买布加迪Chiron超级跑车的补充条款”，对吗？ 答：是的，先生。 问：在“买方”一词下面，写着G Club International Ltd.，对吗？ 答：正确。 问：再往下几行，在电子邮件旁边写着[email protected]，对吗？ 答：是的，先生。 巴尔坎先生说：我们能看一下第10页吗？ 问：你看到这里的签名块了吗？ 答：是的，先生。 问：好的。Limarie Reyes为买方签了字，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在2021年10月28日？ 答：是的。 问：你理解Limarie Reyes是G-Clubs的，对吗？ 答：正确。 问：实际上，你在直接询问中说她是他们的CEO，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在零售商那里是你的签名，对吗？ 答：是的。 巴尔坎先生说：我们可以拿下这个。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第176/页 可以看一下GX 227吗？ 问：这是你在2021年11月1日发给Limarie Reyes的电子邮件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：邮件中写着，“你好，Limarie。抱歉拖延了回复。随邮件附上了与我们在伦敦的布加迪合 作伙伴Art Katallozi协调的配置规格。这个配置需要签字。一旦我们收到签字和定金，你们 的分配名额将被锁定。”你看到了吗？ 答：是的，先生。 问：所以在11月1日，你向Molinaris女士发送了初步规格，对吗？ 答：是的。 巴尔坎先生说：我们能看一下第3页吗？ 可以看上半部分吗？ 问：这是你在11月1日发送的配置规格的第一页，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。顶部写着“布加迪伦敦的个人配置”，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。客户名称旁边写着郭强，对吗？ 答：是的。 巴尔坎先生说：我们能看一下pdf的第6页吗？ 问：如果你看这里，关注页面的下半部分，你看到签名行了吗？ 答：是的。 问：它们是空的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这些签名栏上没有填写签名，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第177/页 答：对。 问：日期栏也没有填写日期？ 答：对。 问：郭强没有在这份文件上签名，对吗？ 答：我没有看到任何签名。 巴尔坎先生说：我们可以看一下证据 GX 230吗？ 问：请看第二封电子邮件，这是 Limarie Molinaris在 11月 12日发给你的电子邮件，对 吗？ 答：对。 问：她说，“亲爱的 Soza先生，附件是布加迪的个人定制配置，已签署并批准。”你看到了 吗？ 答：对。 巴尔坎先生说：让我们看一下 PDF的第 4页。 问：这是类似的文件，上面写着“Bugatti London的个人定制配置”，对吗？ 答：对。 问：但客户姓名现在是 G Club International Ltd.，对吗？ 答：对。 问：不再是郭强，对吗？ 答：对。 巴尔坎先生说：我们可以看一下第 7页吗？ 问：你看到客户签名那一行吗？ 答：看到了。 问：你看到那一行上方有签名，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第178/页 答：对。 问：手写日期也写上了，对吗？ 答：对。 问：日期是 2021年 11月 12日，对吗？ 答：对。 问：所以我们之前看的那份文件版本，是你在 11月 1日发送给 Molinaris女士的，上面标有 郭强的名字，对吗？ 答：对。 问：但那份版本没有签名，对吗？ 答：之前你展示给我们的版本是没有签名的，对。 问：但 11天后，客户被改成了 G Club International，对吗？ 答：看起来是这样。 问：并且该版本由买方签署了，对吗？ 答：我不知道那是谁的签名。 问：但上面有签名，对吗？ 答：有签名。 问：Molinaris女士将其发送给你，并说这是签署的，对吗？ 答：我——我不记得看到过这份有 G Club International名字的文件。我不是说它不存在， 但—— 巴尔坎先生说：我们可以返回到该文件的第一页吗？ 问：第二封电子邮件是 Limarie Reyes发送的这份签署的文件，对吗？ 答：对。 问：她是 G-Clubs的 CEO，对吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第179/页 答：对。 问：谢谢。 巴尔坎先生说：我们可以看一下证据 GX 244吗？ 问：谢谢。 问：我想确认一下，你在直接询问中作证说所有的付款都是来自 G-Clubs，对吗？ 答：我没有那么说。我说所有付款都是通过电汇来的。 问：你的意思是这些付款不是来自 G-Clubs？ 答：所有的付款都是为了通过 G-Clubs购买这辆车，但—— 问：好吧，我们看一下 F列。 答：好的。 问：第一和第二笔定金支付是由 Limarie Molinaris支付的，对吗？ 答：对。 问：第四、第五和第六行显示这些付款是由 G Club支付的，对吗？ 答：对。 问：好的。第二笔付款—— 巴尔坎先生说：我们可以将 GX 232和这份文件并排展示吗？ 问：好，我们来看一下 GX 232。 问：这是 Limarie Molinaris在 2021年 11月 30日发给你的电子邮件，对吗？ 答：对。 问：她说：“亲爱的 Soza先生，希望你度过了一个愉快的假期周末。抱歉延迟回复。是的，我 们的财务团队提交了一笔 1,150,000美元的付款。请确认上述金额是否已收到，并用于我 们当前剩余的余额。” 答：对。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第180/页 巴尔坎先生说：好，我们再回到 GX 244。 问：第三行，这笔 1,150,000美元的付款，就是 Molinaris女士在电子邮件中确认的那笔付 款，对吗？ 答：对。 问：谢谢。 问：没有任何付款来自Mileson，对吗？ 答：据我所知，没有。 问：没有任何付款来自郭文贵，对吗？ 答：据我所知，没有。 问：没有任何付款来自 Ho Wan Kwok，对吗？ 答：据我所知，没有。 问：没有任何付款来自Miles Kwok，对吗？ 答：据我所知，没有。 巴尔坎先生说：谢谢。你可以把它拿下来了。 问：你在直接询问中提到了制裁名单，对吗？ 答：对，先生。 问：什么是制裁名单？ 答：据我所知，这就像是——就像我说的，我们使用 OFAC，据我理解，它会追踪非法转移 资金或资助恐怖组织的人，如果我们拉出名单上有人，这显然是一个红旗，我们不会与这个 人做生意。我不确定具体的程序是什么，但—— 问：什么是 OFAC？ 答：我不知道。这是一个政府机构。是一个政府资源。我不记得确切的意思，但——每笔交 易都要查询。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第181/页 问：Soza先生，你在直接询问中提到了 何先生的电子邮件，何先生询问将 Chiron跑车运出 美国的价格，对吗？ 答：对。 问：那封电子邮件的日期是 2023年 2月，对吗？ 答：我猜是吧。我现在没看着。 问：那是 何先生第一次提到将 Chiron运到国外，对吗？ 答：据我记得，是的。 问：Molinaris女士从未提到将 Chiron跑车运到国外，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：在订购 Chiron跑车时，你的理解是它将在美国使用，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这就是为什么这辆车从法国运到美国，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：事实上，它是从法国运到美国的，对吗？ 答：是的。 巴尔坎先生说：谢谢，没什么问题了。 法官说：有补充询问吗？ 芬克律师说：没有。谢谢你，Soza先生。 法官说：谢谢。你可以退席了。 （证人退席） 法官说：检方可以传下一个证人。 芬克律师说：检方传唤玛格丽特 墨菲。 书记员：请把麦克风拉近一些并举起你的右手。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第182/页 （证人宣誓） 书记员：谢谢。 法官说：请说出你的名字并拼写。 证人：好的，我叫玛格丽特 墨菲。M-A-R-G-A-R-E-T，姓 墨菲，M-U-R-P-H-Y。 法官说：你可以提问了。 芬克律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 玛格丽特 墨菲， 检方证人， 在宣誓后作如下证词： 直接询问 由芬克律师提问： 问：你在哪里工作？ 答：在纽约的 FBI。 问：你的职称是什么？ 答：特别探员。 问：墨菲特别探员，你在 FBI工作多久了？ 答：自 2016年 3月以来。 问：你被分配到哪个办公室？ 答：纽约。 问：什么是 ERT？ 答：ERT是证据响应小组。 问：ERT一般会做些什么？ 答：ERT会收集法医证据或协助执行搜查令的队伍。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第183/页 问：你在 ERT中担任什么角色？ 答：我是其中一个小组的助理队长，也是摄影师。 问：成为 ERT成员需要什么样的培训？ 答：我们需要参加 ERT基础培训，学习不同的法医方法来收集证据。 问：我想让你回想一下 2023年 3月 15日。那天你在 ERT任务中做了什么？ 答：我是执行搜查令的摄影师。 问：搜查在哪里进行？ 答：在荷兰雪梨酒店，地址是第五大道 781号。 问：就在曼哈顿这里吗？ 答：是的。 问：你提到有搜查令。那天 FBI确实有搜查令吗？ 答：是的，我们有。 问：搜查令允许 FBI做什么？ 答：它允许我们对 18楼的公寓进行搜查，并收集与某些犯罪有关的证据。 问：墨菲特别探员，我想请你把麦克风对准你的嘴巴，这样你的声音可以被收录，所有人都 能听到。 答：好的。 问：可以移动它，让你觉得舒服一些，好吗？谢谢。 墨菲特别探员，那天 FBI也有逮捕令吗？ 答：是的，我们有。 问：2023年 3月 15日，荷兰雪梨酒店有没有人被捕？ 答：有。 问：是谁？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第184/页 答：郭文贵。 芬克律师说：法官大人，此时检方提交 GX STIP3作为证据。我只是想提交它。 法官说：它被接纳为证据。 （检方展出证据 Stip 3） 芬克律师说：Gartland先生 或 洛夫特斯女士，我们可以展示 GX Stip 3。 好的，请稍微往下滚动一点，洛夫特斯女士。 “如果在审判中被传唤作证，FBI的特别探员会作如下证词： 2023年 3月 15日，特别探员和其他 FBI员工在合法搜查荷兰雪梨酒店，第五大道 781号，18楼，纽约，纽约。搜查过程中，FBI人员拍摄了 荷兰雪梨酒店内部空间的照片 ——” 译员：法官大人，译员请求律师改变语速，以便我们能翻译。 法官说：如果你能慢一点。 芬克律师说：抱歉。 “搜查过程中，FBI人员拍摄了 荷兰雪梨酒店，第五大道 781号，18楼，纽约，纽约， 的内部空间照片，并合法扣押了物品、文件和电子设备。 GX SH1-GX SH206是在 2023年 3月 15日由 FBI摄影师合法拍摄的 荷兰雪梨酒 店，第五大道 781号，18楼，纽约，纽约，内部空间的真实准确的照片。” 法官大人，此时检方提交 GX SH1至 GX SH206作为证据。 法官说：它们被接纳为证据。 （检方展出证据 SH1至 SH206） 芬克律师说：我们可以把它拿下来，洛夫特斯女士。 由检方芬克律师提问： SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第185/页 问：墨菲特别探员，你能简要描述一下 2023年 3月 15日对荷兰雪梨酒店 18楼的搜查 吗？发生了什么？你一般都做了什么？ 答：当然。我们进入房间后，先走遍整个公寓，然后拍摄了搜查前公寓的照片，并收集了证 据，包括电子设备、一些衣物、文件和其他一些物品，并拍摄了这些物品的照片，最后进行 了退出拍摄，结束了搜查。 芬克律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以展示 GX SH2和 SH48。 问：墨菲特别探员，我们在 SH2和 SH48中看到了什么？ 答：这是通向我们搜查的公寓的 18楼电梯间。 问：18楼有多少套公寓？ 答：只有一套。 问：它有多大？ 答：相当大。 问：从一边走到另一边需要多长时间？ 答：需要几分钟。 问：18楼有外部空间吗？ 答：是的，有两个露台。 问：你去过露台吗？ 答：去过，我去拍照了。 问：它们俯瞰什么？ 答：中央公园。 问：有建筑物挡住中央公园的视野吗？ 答：没有。 芬克律师说：我们可以看一下 SH3吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第186/页 问：墨菲特别探员，我们在这里看到了什么？ 答：这是餐厅。我相信在我们的搜查中它被称为房间 A。 芬克律师说：洛夫特斯女士，你可以放大墙纸部分。 问：墙上的图像，你能为陪审团描述一下它们是如何呈现的吗？ 答：在我看来，它们是墙纸。 1832 芬克律师说：我们可以看一下 SH6吗？ 洛夫特斯女士，我们可以放大一下从窗台顶部到下面的部分吗？再往上一点。 不，再往上一点。对，就到最底部。 问：墨菲特别探员，窗台上的那个银色立方体物体是什么？ 答：我认为那是一个浓缩咖啡机。 问：浓缩咖啡机下面是什么？ 答：有一个手提袋。 问：上面写了什么？ 答：新中国联邦。 问：墨菲特别探员，除了你今天在这里的证词和你在 2023年 3月 15日的搜查之外，你还 参与了这个案件吗？ 答：没有。 问：那你为什么参与了这次搜查？ 答：对于 ERT成员和其他探员以及支持人员来说，协助执行其他案件的搜查令是很常见 的。 问：你知道新中国联邦是什么吗？ 答：我不知道。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第187/页 问：或者为什么它会印在手提袋上？ 答：我不知道。 芬克律师说：我们可以看一下 GX SH207吗？ 我们可以旋转一下。 如果我们只展示给证人 GX SH207。 问：墨菲特别探员，GX SH207是什么？ 答：这是 荷兰雪梨酒店 18楼的布局图。 问：这是 荷兰雪梨酒店 18楼的真实准确的布局图吗？ 答：是的。 芬克律师说：检方提交 GX SH207。 卡马拉珠律师说：没有异议。 法官说：采纳为证据。 （政府证物SH207接纳为证据） 芬克律师说：我们可以展示一下吗？ 问：墨菲特别探员，这幅地图上的不同地方似乎都有字母。你能向陪审团解释一下这是为什 么吗？ 答：是的。我们给我们搜查的每个房间分配了标签，这样我们就可以追溯到每件证据的发现 地点。 芬克律师说：洛夫特斯女士，你可以放大右侧的部分吗？ 继续放大。请往下拉一点。 问：好的，主卧的字母是什么？ 答：房间 P。 问：在其左边的字母Q的房间是什么？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第188/页 答：那是更衣室。 问：N字母代表哪个房间？ 答：那是一个步入式衣帽间。 问：你进入了步入式衣帽间、主卧室和更衣室吗？ 答：是的，我进入了。 问：你能向陪审团描述一下这些房间是如何相连的吗？ 答：是的，它们都通过门道连接到主卧室，是的，它们都是相连的。 芬克律师说：好吧，我们可以看一下 GX SH19吗？ 问：墨菲特别探员，这是什么图片？ 答：这是房间 N，即步入式衣帽间。 问：这是与主卧室相连的步入式衣帽间吗？ 答：是的。 问：那张标有 N的纸，当 FBI到达时在那里吗？ 答：不是。 问：你能解释为什么它在那里吗？ 答：这是我们早些时候描述的房间标签。我们在拍摄入口照片时贴上了它。 芬克律师说：我们可以看一下 GX SH15和 16吗？ 问：这是同一个衣帽间吗？ 答：是的。 芬克律师说：我们可以看一下 SH130吗？ 问：SH130是从同一个衣帽间拍摄的吗？ 答：是的。 问：顺便问一下，这些照片是谁拍的？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第189/页 答：我拍的。 芬克律师说：好吧，洛夫特斯女士，我们可以展示 SH165和 164吗？ 问：墨菲特别探员，这些照片也是在同一个衣帽间，即房间 N拍的吗？ 答：是的。 芬克律师说：洛夫特斯女士，你可以放大右侧的标签吗？ 问：墨菲特别探员，挂在衣帽间 N的西装口袋里的标签上写了什么？ 答：上面写着 "Brioni为郭文贵设计"。 问：Brioni是什么？ 答：这是一个高端男装品牌。 芬克律师说：我们可以看一下 SH167和 166吗？ 问：墨菲特别探员，这些图片也来自同一个衣帽间吗？ 答：是的。 问：也是类似的标签，为郭文贵，是吗？ 答：是的。 芬克律师说：我们可以看一下 GX SH28和 GX SH29吗？ 问：墨菲特别探员���SH28和 SH29是什么照片？ 答：这是我们在搜查令执行期间扣押的物品。 问：这些照片是在哪里拍的？ 答：这是在主卧室，房间 P。 问：这是与衣帽间相连的主卧室吗？ 答：是的。 问：床上的那是什么？ 答：那是一部手机。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第190/页 问：那部手机是在哪里找到的？ 答：在逮捕和清理公寓期间，在床垫之间找到的。 问：它是在床垫下面找到的吗？ 答：是的。 问：什么是敲门报信？ 答：敲门报信通常是联邦调查局在执行搜查令之前所做的事情，目的是提醒房舍内的人联 邦调查局的人在那里，并宣布他们的存在。 问：FBI在敲门并宣布时会做什么？ 答：通常会敲门并宣布，"FBI，搜查令，请到门口。" 芬克律师说：我们可以看一下 GX SH152吗？ 请放大右边，上半部分。请放大右边，洛夫特斯女， 好的。 问：便签上写的是什么？ 答：那是一张便签，上面写着发现物品的人的名字和他们发现物品的房间。 问：这是房间 S吗？ 答：是的。 问：文件顶部写的是什么？ 答：G Club。 问：你知道 G Club是什么吗？ 答：我知道它是与 郭文贵有关的一个实体，但我不知道其他的。 芬克律师说：好。我们可以看一下 SH153吗？ 问：那张红色卡片上写的是什么？ 答：Mileson。 芬克律师说：我们可以看一下 SH156和 157吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第191/页 问：我们在 SH156和 SH157中看到的是什么？ 答：这是香港的国际驾驶许可证和台湾的出入境许可证。 问：右侧，157号文件，这些文件是打开的吗？ 答：是的。 问：这些文件是为谁准备的？ 芬克律师说：洛夫特斯女士，你可以放大右侧吗？ 答：驾驶许可证上的名字是 Kwok Ho Wan。 问：左侧放大的部分上的便签，这些文件是在哪里找到的？ 答：这些是在房间 S，也就是书房里，黑色书桌的左上抽屉里找到的。 芬克律师说：我们可以看一下 SH149吗？ 洛夫特斯女士，你能不能把镜头拉近，让我们能看到那张便条，那张便利贴。 问：这些物品是在哪里找到的？ 答：它们也是在房间 S，也就是书房里，黑色书桌的右上抽屉里找到的。 芬克律师说：好的 好的请把镜头拉远。 洛夫特斯女士，你能放大那两个金色的东西吗？ 你能放大左边那个吗？ 问：这是什么？ 答：这是公寓里的另一个房间。我认为这是房间 X。 问：墨菲特别探员，你还拍了许多其他类型的衣物照片吗？ 答：是的，我拍了。 芬克律师说：我们可以看一下 SH81和 82吗？ 问：这些是你拍摄的衣物吗？ 答：是的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第192/页 问：是谁选择了哪些衣物要拍照的？ 答：我们有一个搜查团队，由对案件有了解的案件探员指导。 问：所以是他们选择的吗？ 答：是的，他们选择的。 问：你知道 G Fashion是什么吗？ 答：我知道它是与 郭文贵有关的一个实体，但我不知道其他的。 问：墨菲特别探员，你在 2023年 3月 15日大约拍了多少张照片？ 答：超过 700张。 问：刚才展示的那些照片和之前提交为证据的照片，你在选择展示哪些照片时扮演任何角 色吗？ 答：没有。 问：我们在你今天作证之前见过多少次面？ 答：我认为我们见了四到五次。 问：除了你今天的证词和 2023年 3月 15日的搜查外，你还有参与过这个案件的其他方面 吗？ 答：没有。 芬克律师说：没有其他问题了。 法官说：交叉询问。 卡马拉珠律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 交叉询问 由卡马拉珠律师询问 问：下午好，墨菲特别探员。 答：你好。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第193/页 问：现在是星期五下午，我会尽量快一点，好吗？ 答：好的。 问：我知道你说你是证据响应小组的一员，对吗？ 答：对的。 问：证据响应小组的职责之一是收集证据并将其运回 FBI的办公室，对吗？ 答：嗯，这取决于情况，但通常负责将证据运回办公室的人可能是案件团队的一员，不一定 是证据响应小组的成员。这取决于谁是负责扣押的探员。 问：明白了，但会有一个 FBI的人员负责将证据运回，对吗？ 答：对的。 问：在荷兰雪梨酒店的搜查中也有负责这样做的探员，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你那天是怎么到达荷兰雪梨酒店的？ 答：我自己吗？ 问：是的。 答：我开着我的局里发的车。 问：好的，你把车停在哪里？ 答：我想我停在 59街附近，靠近中央公园的地方。 问：你知道荷兰雪梨酒店有自己的车库吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：你刚才作证说那天执行的搜查令是针对 18楼公寓的，对吗？ 答：对的。 问：所以那天如果有物品要被扣押，应该是从那个公寓扣押的，对吗？ 答：对的。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第194/页 问：所以那天 FBI没有被允许扣押一辆布加迪，对吗？ 芬克律师说：反对。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：我当时是在执行一个搜查令的团队的一部分，我不知道 FBI那天是否有其他授权的搜 查令，所以我只能谈论第五大道781号的搜查令。 问：在执行这次搜查和逮捕行动之前，FBI举行了简报会，对吗？ 答：对的。 问：你参加了简报会，对吗？ 答：对的。 问：简报会的目的是讨论行动，对吗？ 答：对的。 问：并讨论 FBI在行动期间可以和不可以做的事情，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这都是标准程序，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是你执行过的每一次搜查令之前都会发生的事情，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的，在那次会议期间，没有讨论关于布加迪的搜查令，对吗？ 芬克律师说：反对，法官大人。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：我不记得有关于布加迪的任何讨论。 问：同样的回答适用于任何类型的兰博基尼，对吗？ 芬克律师说：法官大人，我们可以靠近一下吗？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第195/页 法官说：好的。 （继续下一页） （边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 芬克律师说：法官大人，正如本法庭所知，这次审判中提供的每一件证据都是合法的 ，对布加迪的查封是合法的，对兰博基尼的查封也是合法的。如果辩护律师想问在荷兰雪梨 酒店发现了布加迪或兰博基尼，这是一个合理的问题，但他不应暗示布加迪和兰博基尼的 查封是在搜查令之外政府不被合法允许的行为。这是第一点。 第二，我不明白在其他地点和时间查封的物品与本案的关联性。 法官说：那么这些车是被查封了吗？ 芬克律师说：兰博基尼是在2023年3月15日在康涅狄格州被查封的，特工McNamara 已经作证。布加迪大约一个月后从Post Oak被查封。 法官说：他可以问：你知道关于车辆的搜查令吗？ 芬克律师说：这样可以，我只是希望他们不要暗示查封是非法或不正当的。 法官说：我认为普通人不会有那样的印象。 卡马拉珠律师说：首先，法官大人，我的问题根本没有涉及到那点。其次，法官大人会 指示陪审团这些查封是合法的。在我看来，这只是对进行搜查的特工提出的相当常规、标 准的问题。我并不想暗示任何搜查是不合法的，我没有理由这么做。如果我有，我会挑战搜 查令。我只是想了解搜查的情况。 芬克律师说：法官大人，因此我请求在交叉询问结束时，您能指示陪审团，政府要求， 指出本案中的所有查封行为都是合法的。 卡马拉珠律师说：这是您在审判结束时对陪审团指示的一部分。 芬克律师说：那么，为什么现在问这些问题？ SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第196/页 卡马拉珠律师说：如果我想争论搜查是不合法的，合适的时间是在之前。我问的问题 没有任何一个暗示搜查是不合法的。他们很清楚，我可以在交叉询问或总结时谈论汽车被 找到的位置。我所做的只是说—— 芬克律师说：法官—— 卡马拉珠律师说：对不起，芬克先生。我所说的只是FBI并没有去那栋房子寻找布加 迪或兰博基尼或其他任何东西，并且它们也没有被找到。我并没有说FBI这么做是不当的， 我也没有对其提出任何指责。我将在两个问题内结束这个话题，然后我们将继续讨论其他 问题。 芬克律师说：我不反对辩护律师问是否在寻找布加迪，但不能问是否有搜查布加迪 的搜查令，因为实际上我们确实有搜查令。我们后来获得了一个。 卡马拉珠律师说：好的，我可以澄清一下问题并说：你在荷兰雪梨酒店的地址没有搜 查布加迪的搜查令。 芬克律师说：提到搜查令有什么意义呢？为什么不直接说：你在那里寻找布加迪吗？ 卡马拉珠律师说：坦率地说，这暗示了搜查可能是非法的。 芬克律师说：那么你同意布加迪和兰博基尼的查封是合法的。你同意吗？ 卡马拉珠律师说：是的，因为我没有提交抑制动议。 芬克律师说：那么我们应该有一个指示。 卡马拉珠律师说：不需要。 法官说：我认为不需要这个指示。你可以问问题。 卡马拉珠律师说：谢谢，法官大人。我很感激。 （回到公开法庭） 法官说：你可以继续。 由辩方卡马拉珠律师提问： SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第197/页 问：好的。我认为我刚才说到，没有搜查令去查封那个地址的兰博基尼，对吗？ 答：据我所知，在3月15日没有。 问：好的。据你所知，没有搜查令去查封那个地址的法拉利，对吗？ 答：据我所知，在2023年3月15日没有。 卡马拉珠律师说：好的。现在我们可以调出已经作为证据的GX SH207吗？好的，这 是——我们能确保陪审团也能看到吗？谢谢。 问：好的。这是布局图，对吗？ 答：对的。 问：好的。是你准备的这张图表吗？ 答：不是我准备的。 法官说：请稍等一下。 卡马拉珠律师说：哦，对不起，法官大人。 （暂停） 法官说：继续吧。 卡马拉珠律师说：谢谢。 问：你作证说你去了两个不同的阳台，对吗？ 答：对的。 问：好的。那么在图中，我认为标注了三个露台，请你告诉我们你去了哪些露台并拍了照 片。 答：好的。我记得那两个较长的露台。我看到主卧室里还有一个露台。我想我在提到露台时 忘记了那个。 法官说：卡马拉珠先生，你能告诉我这份证物的编号吗，这张平面图。 卡马拉珠律师说：是的，法官大人。它是GX SH207。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第198/页 法官说：谢谢。 卡马拉珠律师说：当然。 问：好的。你是否记得你是否在第三个露台上也拍了照片？ 答：我不记得了，我需要参考我的照片日志。 问：好的。现在你之前在证词中提到过关于进入荷兰雪梨公寓的电梯厅，对吗？ 答：对的。 问：现在电梯是从大堂上到18楼，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。当你在大堂时，有保安对吗？ 答：我不记得那天有没有保安，因为我认为我们是通过多个电梯进入的。还有一个服务电 梯。所以我不确定那里的保安是否在场。 问：为了明确起见，你乘坐的电梯是否通往你拍照的那个电梯厅，还是你必须走过去？ 答：我不记得了。 卡马拉珠律师说：好的。我们可以调出政府证物GX SH164、166和167吗？ 这两个现在可以，感谢。 问：你记得在直接询问中关于这些照片的证词吗？ 答：记得。 问：对吗？你确认这些是Brioni西装，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我认为你说过Brioni是一家高端男士西装公司，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。那么你不知道这些西装是什么时候购买的，对吗？ 答：对不起，我没听清。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第199/页 问：你不知道这些西装是什么时候购买的，对吗？ 答：对，我不知道。 问：你也不知道公寓里任何一件衣物是什么时候购买的，对吗？ 答：对的。 问：你只是来到这里拍摄你在衣柜里看到的东西，对吗？ 答：对的。 问：现在让我们继续讨论衣物。 卡马拉珠律师说：我们可以调出GX SH81和82吗？ 问：好的。你作证说拍了这些照片，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这些衣物是公寓里原本的样子吗？ 答：不是。这些是为了拍照而放置在那里的。 问：它们在拍照前是否有任何包装或塑料袋？ 答：我不知道。 问：是谁把它们放在那里让你拍照的？ 答：搜索团队中的一名���员。 问：好的。 法官说：现在是下午3点。 卡马拉珠律师说：我以为我可以完成的，对不起，法官大人。 法官说：那么，各位陪审员，现在是你们享受周末的时间。请记住，你们不可以在自 己之间或与任何人讨论这个案子。不允许任何人在你们面前讨论这个案子。不要阅 读、观看或收听任何与这个案子有关的内容，无论来自何种来源。 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第200/页 祝大家周末愉快。我们将于周一早上9:30开始。我们会回到之前的时间安排。9:00你 们会有早餐准备好。祝你们度过一个愉快的周末。 陪审团：谢谢。 （陪审团不在场） 法官说：女士，你可以出去，不要讨论你的证词，我需要你在周一上午9:29出庭。 证人：是的，法官大人。 （证人不在场） 法官说：你们可以坐下。 在我们周末休息之前还有什么事情吗？ 卡马拉珠律师说：辩方没有，法官大人。 芬克律师说：政府也没有。祝你周末愉快。 法官说：祝你们周末愉快。 卡马拉珠律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 （休庭至2024年6月10日，上午9:00） SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
【中文翻译仅供参考】 O5VVGUO1 2024-6-7庭审记录 第201/页 索引的检查 检查人：页码 李娅 由施洛夫女士交叉询问 1607 由费根森先生重定向询问 1774 由施洛夫女士再交叉询问 1782 洛尼·索扎 由芬克先生直接询问 1789 由巴尔坎先生说交叉询问 1814 玛格丽特·墨菲 由芬克先生直接询问 1826 由卡马拉珠先生交叉询问 1839 被告证物 证物编号 接收时间 6512 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1653 60503 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1749 6498 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1752 7000 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1770 政府证物 证物编号 接收时间 226-233, 240, 243,和 244-249 1795 202-223 1804 Stip 3 1829 SH1至SH206 1830 SH207 1833 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
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