Original Court Transcript(原始庭审记录)
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
v. 23 Cr. 118 (AT)
MILES GUO,
Defendant. Trial
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New York, N.Y.
June 13, 2024
9:00 a.m.
Before:
HON. ANALISA TORRES,
District Judge
-and a Jury-
APPEARANCES
DAMIAN WILLIAMS
United States Attorney for the
Southern District of New York
BY: MICAH F. FERGENSON
RYAN B. FINKEL
JUSTIN HORTON
JULIANA N. MURRAY
Assistant United States Attorneys
SABRINA P. SHROFF
Attorney for Defendant
PRYOR CASHMAN LLP
Attorneys for Defendant
BY: SIDHARDHA KAMARAJU
MATTHEW BARKAN
ALSTON & BIRD LLP
Attorneys for Defendant
BY: E. SCOTT SCHIRICK
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ALSO PRESENT:
Isabel Loftus, Paralegal Specialist, USAO
Ruben Montilla, Defense Paralegal
Tuo Huang, Interpreter (Mandarin)
Shi Feng, Interpreter (Mandarin)
Yu Mark Tang, Interpreter (Mandarin)
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(Trial resumed; jury not present)
THE COURT: Good morning.
MR. FERGENSON: Good morning.
THE COURT: Please make your appearances.
MR. FERGENSON: Good morning, your Honor. Micah
Fergenson, Juliana Murray, Justin Horton for the government;
also joined by our paralegal Isabel Loftus.
MR. SCHIRICK: Good morning, your Honor. Scott
Schirick, Sabrina Shroff, and Matt Barkan on behalf of Mr. Guo,
who also joins us here at counsel's table.
THE COURT: Please be seated.
By letter dated June 12, 2024, the government states
that it will call Samuel Roberts, the head of financial
intelligence at Bitgo, which "provided certain services to the
Himalaya Exchange." The government expects that Mr. Roberts
will testify about "his participation in Bitgo's reviews of its
business relationship with the Himalaya Exchange."
Specifically, Bitgo conducted two reviews—–a preliminary due
diligence inquiry upon beginning its business relationship with
the Exchange in 2021, and another "more searching" review after
receiving a subpoena related to the Exchange. As part of this
second review, Mr. Roberts communicated with Exchange
representatives, "evaluated information provided by the
Himalaya Exchange and from public sources," and recommended
that Bitgo terminate the relationship with the Exchange.
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By letter dated June 12, 2024, the defense states that
"certain of Mr. Roberts's anticipated testimony about factual
information he gathered may be admissible." However, the
defense seeks to preclude the government from eliciting
Mr. Roberts's opinions as to whether Himalaya Coin and Himalaya
Dollar are cryptocurrencies, whether the Himalaya Exchange is a
cryptocurrency exchange, and the design/functions of Himalaya
Coin, Himalaya Dollar, and the Himalaya Exchange.
Early this morning, the government filed a response
stating that it does not intend "to ask Roberts his opinion
whether Himalaya Coin and Himalaya Dollar are cryptocurrencies
or whether the Himalaya Exchange is a cryptocurrency exchange."
Rather, the government represents that "Roberts would be
testifying about what he observed, what he was told by the
Exchange, and how that information impacted the review he
conducted and informed his recommendation that Bitgo terminate
its relationship with the Exchange."
To the extent that there is still a dispute between
the parties, the Court agrees with defendant that whether H
Coin and H Dollar are cryptocurrencies and whether the Himalaya
Exchange is a cryptocurrency exchange are questions that
require "scientific, technical, or other specialized knowledge"
within the meaning of Rule 702. Indeed, both parties have
noticed experts to opine about these two questions.
Mr. Roberts, by contrast, has not been noticed as an expert
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witness. Accordingly, the government shall not elicit his
opinions as to these two topics.
The Court shall not broadly preclude Mr. Roberts's
testimony about the design and function of Himalaya Coin,
Himalaya Dollar, and the Himalaya Exchange. He may state that
he recommended that Bitgo terminate its relationship based on
his findings, but he may not offer general information about
the characteristics of cryptocurrency, nor may he offer an
opinion as to whether H Coin, H Dollar were cryptocurrencies
and whether the Exchange was a cryptocurrency exchange.
Is there anything further?
MR. FERGENSON: One matter from the government, your
Honor.
We just wanted——we wanted to alert the Court so it's
aware. We're discussing this with the defense actively. But
we wanted to let the Court know——
To back up, for context, the government's——one of the
government's witnesses noticed for this week is Beau Collins.
He was the CEO of Mercantile Bank. And as a refresher for your
Honor, Mercantile Bank was the——I think you could call it the
digital bank. It was a Puerto Rico financial institution that
Hamilton, the William Je entity, was going to acquire. Shortly
before that acquisition, the government executed its seizure
warrants on Hamilton's bank accounts. That was the seizure of
the ultimately around $600 million or so. Mr. Collins was the
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CEO of Mercantile. The government was going to call him to
testify sort of about the Himalaya Exchange was a client of
Mercantile Bank and had bank accounts there. The government's
going to call him to testify about that relationship and the
proposed acquisition and then the ultimate seizure of the
funds, which stopped the acquisition.
After the acquisition, there was an arbitration
between Mercantile and Hamilton, like a private arbitration
based on, to my understanding, like a contract dispute in the
purchase of sale agreement. That was litigated in the
arbitration. I think Mercantile won the arbitration,
ultimately filed for a con——I don't know the correct term——a
confirmation of the arbitration award in the S.D.N.Y. I'm not
sure the status of that case, but the arbitration was done.
We received in mid-April——we requested and then
received in mid-April a production from Mercantile——mid-April
of this year. That was in response to our request for any
testimony that Mr. Collins gave in the arbitration. We
understood he had testified. We received from Mercantile
the——I think you would call it the arbitration file, your
Honor. On quick review, it appears to be the filings by the
parties in the arbitration, perhaps some correspondence or
discovery back and forth between the parties in the
arbitration, the arbitration award, and the hearing transcript
of the arbitration. I think it was a two-day hearing. That
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production was mistakenly not produced to the defense, the
mid-April of this year production. We learned that last night.
We produced it to the defense immediately. While it was being
uploaded, the government clicked through this production as
fast as we could to get a sense of what is in there. That's,
you know, what my understanding——from that, that's my
understanding what it is. We flagged what we thought was the
most pertinent part of that for Mr. Collins, which is his——I
believe in the arbitration they did direct testimony via
affidavit and then got crossed at the hearing. So we flagged
his affidavit, the other Mercantile employee affidavits we saw,
and we flagged the hearing transcript, like the Bates numbers
for those, your Honor. Unfortunately, it is a large number of
pages. It's around 16,000 pages. My understanding is that is
about 754 documents. I think, from my clicking through very
quickly, my sense is the reason the page numbers is so much
larger than the document count is, your Honor could think of
like a motion for summary judgment where a party is filing a
brief to the arbitrators and attaching as exhibits, you know,
long contracts about the arbitration and due diligence
documents on Mercantile, that sort of thing. But there's very
long exhibits to these filings. That's my sense, on very quick
review of this. We have not determined yet——although we want
to further review this to be further helpful to the defense on
the contents of this production, but we had received from
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Mercantile prior to this very voluminous production already in
response to a grand jury subpoena that had requested any and
all documents related to Hamilton and specified, including any
proposed merger transaction. That was our grand jury subpoena
request. In response to that, they had given us previously and
we had previously produced around 16,000 documents, which was
around 79,000 pages. Now we have not confirmed that the
exhibits to these arbitration filings are duplicative of the
prior grand jury subpoena productions. Topically, they——they
should be, but that's one thing that we want to look at to see
if we can flag anything for the defense that may be new, or
anything else that, in our judgment, may be particularly
pertinent to Mr. Collins's testimony or that we want to flag
for them so they can take a closer look at that. As I said,
we're also just generally discussing this with the defense.
We're open to moving Mr. Collins's testimony to allow them more
time to review this, and we don't have an agreement as to
what——how to proceed with Mr. Collins. He is not testifying
today no matter what. We're open to ideas on how best to
accommodate it. We want to be efficient with the jury's time
and the Court's time. We're open to any number of options,
including possibly, you know, if the defense were open to this,
maybe Mr. Collins could do his direct on Friday but not get
crossed until Monday, give them additional time to review this
production and his direct testimony transcript, or even if they
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want us to just not call him until next week, we're open to
this. We're discussing it. I just wanted to alert the Court
to the issue and, you know, just as an FYI for this issue.
THE COURT: Is there a table of contents for the grand
jury documents and for the arbitration documents?
MR. FERGENSON: There's not a table of contents, I
don't believe so, your Honor.
THE COURT: Does the defense have anything to say?
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, I can only comment to this
briefly. Mr. Kamaraju is actually right now in the process of
trying to assess these materials because as Mr. Fergenson
noted, we just got them late last night. So we're not at this
point able to sort of give a substantive assessment of what we
have. Obviously we need to spend a little bit of time with it
to be able to do that. But I would just note for the Court,
you know, that Mr. Collins was on the government's witness list
that they sent us on Saturday morning, so he was noticed, you
know, over the weekend, and, you know, we're just receiving
this information last evening. And, you know, as I said,
Mr. Kamaraju I think a little bit later today will, after he's
had a chance to look at it, come and address the issue in more
detail.
I would just flag, in addition to the logistical
issues that the government has already raised about
Mr. Collins's testimony, you know, the sort of parallel issue
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that I think we may find ourselves, depending on how we handle
Mr. Collins's testimony, with additional time at the end of the
day tomorrow. It remains to be seen, obviously. We would all
love if that were the case, if things moved that quickly. But
to the extent that we do, we don't have any notice from the
government as to who else they may call at this point to take
that time. So again, this is happening in realtime. We
haven't had that much of a chance to discuss it with the
government, but I just flag that for the Court.
MR. FERGENSON: And we appreciate that, your Honor,
and that's something else we're happy to discuss with the
defense and do everything we can to try and accommodate them.
You know, we can't promise there won't be mistakes, but if we
learn of them, we'll try and do the right thing when we do, and
that's what we're hoping to do here.
THE COURT: Don't you have a bevy of folks who can be
comparing the two documents while you're on trial?
MR. FERGENSON: I'm not sure we have a bevy, but that
is our plan, your Honor. We're going to try and do that
comparison and flag anything further for the defense.
THE COURT: Is there anything further?
MR. FERGENSON: Not from the government.
MR. SCHIRICK: Not from the defense, your Honor.
THE COURT: All righty. We'll reconvene at 9:30.
Please have the witness on the stand at 9:29.
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MR. FERGENSON: Yes, your Honor.
(Recess)
THE COURT: Please have the jurors brought in.
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Please be seated.
Good morning, jurors.
THE JURORS: Good morning.
THE COURT: We're going to continue with the direct
examination of the witness.
Please remember that you're still under oath.
You may inquire.
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.
MINRAN WU, resumed.
DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUED
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Good morning, Ms. Wu.
A. Good morning.
Q. And Ms. Wu, when we broke yesterday, we were discussing the
farm loan program. Do you remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you participate in the farm loan program?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you send money to your farm?
A. Yes.
Q. How much did you send?
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A. $20,000.
Q. And approximately when did you send the $20,000?
A. August 2020.
Q. And where did you send the 20,000?
A. Mountains of Spice, LLC, something like that.
Q. And what was the name on the account that you used to send
the money to Mountains of Spices?
A. Wonder Invest, LLC.
Q. And in connection with that transfer, did you sign a loan
agreement?
A. Yes, should be.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, could we show the witness
what's marked as Government Exhibit VN39.
Q. Ms. Wu, is this the loan agreement?
A. Yes. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government
Exhibit VN39.
MR. SCHIRICK: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VN39 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Could we please publish that.
All right. And Ms. Loftus, if we could zoom on the
top half just to make the text larger for everyone. That's
great.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
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Q. All right. Ms. Wu, do you see at the top here it says Loan
Agreement?
A. Yes.
Q. And who is the borrower on this loan agreement?
A. MOS Farm, Mountains of Spice Farm.
Q. And who's the lender?
A. Me.
Q. What's the date for this loan agreement?
A. August 12, 2020.
Q. And under loan amount, do you see it says $20,000?
A. Yes.
Q. So focusing you on the paragraph 1(a) there, Use of
Proceeds, I'll go ahead and read that paragraph.
A. Okay.
Q. So it says, "Use of Proceeds: The loan proceeds advanced
under this Agreement is for the general working capital
purposes of the Borrower." And the Borrower is the farm,
right, Ms. Wu?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, Ms. Wu, did you read that before or after you sent the
money?
A. I cannot remember because at that time a lot of things just
pushed together. We were so hurry and hectic because they gave
us 24 hours to 48 hours, anyway, just a very short time to wait
our bank account information, because they use several bank
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accounts, but they send each person different bank account. I
don't know what they were, just that we needed to wait for our
own bank account. After that, we need to wire the money
immediately, because they said those bank accounts would be
stopped at any time because of the CCP. And then we need to
write an email to the email address they gave us, provided a
lot of stuff they required, and then just after, just to
send——we sent the email to the farm, we need to join a Telegram
group. In that group, we needed to wait the confirmation from
them about our money. So, very busy. May——maybe just a——a
little——a little thing about the contract before sign, before
send the money, but to——I don't think I had a lot of time to
read it little by little, turn by turn.
Q. And Ms. Wu, you explained yesterday that you understood
this loan agreement was to get GTV stock. Do you recall that?
A. Yes.
Q. And the Use of Proceeds does not mention GTV stock, right?
A. Yes.
Q. What, if anything, were you told about why that was?
A. They said they couldn't write clearly about that in this
contract just because of the CCP; because CCP always eyeing
this group, they couldn't do that.
Q. And who told you that?
A. Miles Guo said this. Xia Qidong also said this.
Q. And remind us again what Xia Qidong's other name is.
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A. Changdao or Changdao Weida.
Q. What does that mean again?
A. Changdao means an island, Weida is great brother.
Q. And Ms. Wu, focusing on paragraph (c) of this contract, do
you see the——it says "interest rate." What was the interest
rate?
A. They said we borrowed our money to the farm, right, the
farm should give us this interest, 3 percent each year.
MR. FERGENSON: And Ms. Loftus, if we could now scroll
down to page 7.
Q. And Ms. Wu, did you sign this contract?
A. Yes.
Q. And who else signed it?
A. Xia Qidong.
Q. And now what was the date you signed the contract, Ms. Wu?
A. August the 12th, 2020.
Q. And what was the date that Xia Qidong signed the contract?
A. November 2, 2021.
Q. Over a year later?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Now, Ms. Loftus, if we could scroll
down to page 9.
Q. Ms. Wu, do you see it says Name of Entity and it says
Wonder Invest, LLC?
A. Yes.
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Q. Can you remind us, what is Wonder Invest, LLC?
A. It's my own company.
MR. FERGENSON: And if we could go to the next page,
Ms. Loftus, please.
Q. All right. Now, Ms. Wu, do you see this says Addendum at
the top?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: And Ms. Loftus, maybe just to make it
easier to read, could we blow up the top half.
Q. Okay. I'll just go ahead and read paragraph 1.
So paragraph 1 says, "Provision 1(a) of loan agreement
shall be modified as to follows. The loan proceeds advanced
under this agreement may be used by the borrower at its
discretion without limitation, including but not limited for
working capital, political activities, loaning out to other
parties, and/or investment purposes."
Ms. Wu, what, if anything, did Changdao say about this
addendum?
A. I don't remember.
MR. FERGENSON: And if we could zoom out, please,
Ms. Loftus, and go to page 12, just another couple pages down.
Keep going, please.
Q. Okay. Just to focus on when the addendum was signed,
Ms. Wu?
A. November 5, 2021.
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Q. And that's when you signed it, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And what was the date that Xia Qidong signed this?
A. November 2, 2021.
Q. And is that the same date that Xia Qidong signed the——or
Changdao signed the original loan agreement?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Okay. Now let's go back up,
Ms. Loftus. Let's go back to page 12 of the document. And
I'll ask you to please zoom, if you would, on paragraph 6,
please.
Q. Okay. So I'll go ahead and read paragraph 6, Ms. Wu.
A. Okay.
Q. It says, "The borrower shall have the right to unilaterally
terminate the loan agreement if the lender has committed or
commits the following:
"(a) lender defames, libels, insults, humiliates,
abuses, curses verbally or in writing, in public or secrecy,
Mr. Wengui Guo aka Miles Guo;
"(b) lender makes any statements or engages any
conducts that are against the missions of the Whistleblower
Movement (WM). For the purpose of this loan agreement, WM is
defined as a combination of campaigns, actions and platforms
(including GTV) designated to disclose the criminal activities
of Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and spread the truth about
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CCP's atrocity for the purpose of achieving the total and
complete destruction of the CCP; or
"(c) lender makes any statements or engages any
activities that are against the missions of the New Federal
State of China (NFSC). For the purpose of this note, NFSC is a
semi state sovereignty created and initiated by Mr. Miles Guo
and supported by anti-CCP communities on June 4th 2020 at New
York with the mission of establishing a new China without CCP
to promote the universal ideas of rule of law, freedom, and
democracy to Chinese people."
Ms. Wu, we discussed the original loan agreement. At
the time you received the loan addendum in November 2021, did
you read the addendum before signing it?
A. No.
Q. Why didn't you read the addendum before you signed it?
A. At that time actually, I already thought about ask to
refund.
Q. And why did considering asking for a refund, why did that
affect whether you read the contract? Or the addendum. Excuse
me.
A. This was in November, right? Actually, I began to doubt
this organization from April or May 2021st, because at that
time SEC published the settlement, the settlement with the GTV,
so I went to the website, read that documentation, then I felt
something not right; also some other things together.
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Q. And we'll talk about those things in a few minutes, Ms. Wu.
A. Okay.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could just zoom out
and go back to page 12, just——oh, I'm sorry. Page 14. Excuse
me.
Q. So Ms. Wu, just, could you explain why, if at the time you
were considering asking for a refund, why you still signed this
addendum.
A. If I didn't do this, I definitely would no chance to ask a
refund.
Q. And why do you say that?
A. First, I heard a lot of people said if they asked a refund,
then they maybe——just maybe I——I cannot guarantee, because I
heard people said a lot of people already was expelled from
their farms because of their——refund request. Then——
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, objection to the hearsay.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. FERGENSON: It's being offered for the effect of
why she signed the addendum, your Honor, not for the truth of
the out-of-court statement.
THE COURT: In that case then, the answer stands.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. I'm sorry, Ms. Wu. You were explaining why you signed the
addendum even though you were thinking about asking for a
refund.
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A. And then I——I just thought I needed a safe way to do this.
I hadn't defined a way at that time. Then I had to sign this
first, and later, I think I will——I will do something.
Q. When you say "do something," what do you mean?
A. Find a perfect opportunity to do this.
Q. And when you say "do this," what are you referring to,
Ms. Wu?
A. Ask for a refund.
Q. And did you——we'll talk about it later, but did you
ultimately ask for a refund from the farm loan?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. We'll turn to that in a moment.
Ms. Wu, what, if any, volunteer work did you do
related to farm loan transfers?
A. In the group, just the farm——the MOS Farm established the
group to do the translation job for documentations needed in a
lawsuit.
Q. And who was the lawsuit between?
A. Between MOS Farm and the Phoenix Farm.
Q. And who was in charge of the Phoenix Farm?
A. At that time should be Sara Wei.
Q. Now could you explain what sorts of documents were shared
in the chat group that was created by MOS for this, at a high
level. What sorts of documents were shared in that group?
A. Just all kinds of loan project from all——from——I don't know
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if all farms, but definitely from various farms of the world.
Q. And who would send these documents to the chat group?
A. Zhang Yongbing and Xia Qidong were in charge of this group.
Zhang Yongbing and his assistant distributed this documentation
to us to do the translation.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, could we please publish
what's in evidence as Government Exhibit 121.
If we could publish it.
Q. Ms. Wu, who is this?
A. This is Zhang Yongbing.
Q. And what was his role at the MOS Farm?
A. He was the legal group leader in the MOS Farm at that time.
Q. And what was his position in the farms after that?
A. After that, he was ascended to the Himalaya Alliance and
then to the Iron Blood Group.
Q. Was——
THE COURT: Does he go by any other name?
THE WITNESS: Zhang Yongbing is his real name. His
called name is Tang Gong Qi Xia (ph).
Q. And Ms. Wu, could you spell Zhang Yongbing for the court
reporter.
A. Zhang Yongbing. Z-H-A-N-G, Y-O-N-G-B-I-N-G.
Q. You said, Ms. Wu, he ascended to the Himalaya Alliance and
the Iron Blood Group. What's the Iron Blood Group?
A. It should be the core, the core of this organization, and
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all members are Miles Guo's helpers.
MR. FERGENSON: All right. Ms. Loftus, if we can now
show just the witness what's marked as Government Exhibit VN7.
Q. And Ms. Wu, you said Zhang Yongbing or his assistant shared
the documents with this chat group, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Were some of the documents sent to you screenshots of text
messages, Ms. Wu?
A. Yes.
Q. Sorry. I didn't——is this document now on your screen?
A. Yes.
Q. Is this one of the documents that Zhang Yongbing or his
assistant shared with the chat group?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government
Exhibit VN7.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, voir dire?
THE COURT: You may.
VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION.
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Ms. Wu, you didn't create this document, did you?
A. No.
Q. Do you know when the document was created?
A. No.
Q. Do you know who created it? And to be clear, I'm asking
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who created the document, not who were the——what are the names
of the people that show up in the document.
A. I don't know. Should be the Iron Blood Group people.
Q. But you don't know.
A. Because they do this, not——no others can do this.
Q. I understand. I'm asking you what you know, not to
speculate on what may have happened.
A. Okay. I don't know.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, she answered the question.
MR. SCHIRICK: We object.
THE COURT: Overruled. It is admitted.
MR. FERGENSON: Could we publish this, please,
Ms. Loftus.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. All right. Now——
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, before Mr. Fergenson begins
questioning, could we just have a brief sidebar?
THE COURT: Yes.
(Continued on next page)
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(At the sidebar)
MR. SCHIRICK: So your Honor, we have a continuing
objection to this on the basis of hearsay and that it has
Mandarin language in it. That's our objection.
MR. FERGENSON: It's not hearsay. It was sent by an
agent of Miles Guo to the MOS Farm; clearly a statement of an
agent. Second, it's a screenshot of a text that Miles Guo was
in. I don't see how it could be hearsay.
On the Mandarin translation, I'm happy——the vast
majority of this is in English. I'm happy to just ask her
about the English-language portions. We don't have a lot of
questions on this. And if we want, we can get the limited
Mandarin text translated and send it to the defense. We can
put that in evidence——
THE COURT: So this came up before. Any Mandarin
needs to be translated. So you'll hold off on this and my
ruling is pending, shall we say.
MR. FERGENSON: Okay. I'll just skip it.
MR. SCHIRICK: Just one point, your Honor. I believe
the witness testified, notwithstanding what Mr. Fergenson
described as the province of this document, this witness
testified she has no idea who created it or where it came from.
MR. FERGENSON: That's not true. She said it was
shared in a chat that was sent to her within the chat and she
downloaded it from that.
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MS. SHROFF: She never said she downloaded it and——
MR. FERGENSON: Right. If you want me to ask her——
MS. SHROFF: If I could just finish. She did not say
she downloaded it and she did not say she created the document.
We should just be clear about what the record is so far
because——and we can always go back, but I don't believe there
was any testimony whatsoever that she downloaded it.
MR. FERGENSON: You're correct. I'm sorry.
THE COURT: But she recognizes it.
MS. SHROFF: I think she did say that. But she never
said how that document was created, right? He asked her, who
created the exhibit that's before you, so just——it's inaccurate
to say she downloaded it.
MR. FERGENSON: On the created, you don't have to
create a document to be able to create a document. It was sent
to her. I'm happy to ask her that.
THE COURT: So we'll wait on the translation, but to
the extent you have other ones, if it was sent to her and she
recognizes it, it's going to come in.
MR. SCHIRICK: We're making a hearsay objection, but
we understand, your Honor.
THE COURT: This is the statement of conspirators, or
alleged conspirators. Let's go.
(Continued on next page)
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(In open court)
THE COURT: You may continue.
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.
Okay. Ms. Loftus, could we show the witness now
what's marked as Government Exhibit VN13.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. And Ms. Wu, is this another document that was shared in
that chat group?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit
VN13.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, voir dire?
THE COURT: You may.
VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION.
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Ms. Wu, again, you didn't create this document, correct?
A. Several people created together.
Q. So my question was: Did you create the document?
A. I did some.
Q. You created some part of this document?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Do you know if this was the final version of this
document?
A. Can I move——move it?
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if you want to scroll down
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slightly.
You can keep scrolling, Ms. Loftus.
A. There is no grand total.
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Okay. Do you know what the source of this information is,
source of the information displayed in this document?
A. You see the file number? Those file numbers just different
screenshots that Zhang Yongbing distributed to us.
Q. I'm sorry. Could you explain that again.
A. The file number, that column, the file number column, MLP,
all just——
Q. Oh, file number. I see. Okay. Go ahead.
A. Each one stands for one screenshot. We did the
translation.
Q. Okay. And my question was: Do you know what the source is
of the financial information in this document?
A. What do you mean source? Source from the screenshots they
gave us, the screenshots they asked from different farms.
MR. FERGENSON: And was the first exhibit we looked at
an example of those screenshots?
THE WITNESS: Yes, yes.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, same objection.
THE COURT: You received this document in the chat,
correct?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
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THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VN13 received in evidence)
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.
We could publish it to the jury, just quickly.
We can scroll up to the top.
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. So Ms. Wu, do you see in row 1 it says "Note" in red text?
A. Yes.
Q. I'll just read the note. It says, "Note: the following
amounts have either been transferred or were confirmed by farm
owners to have been transferred to Maywind."
Ms. Wu, do you recall what——in Receiver column it says
Maywind Trading LLC. Do you recall what that was?
A. Should be one of the bank or bank accounts of the Phoenix
Farm. It's just used to receive loan program funds from that
farm members.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could scroll down
towards the bottom, please. Keep going.
Q. And Ms. Wu, do you see on this Excel it says the total is
$39,872,527?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: All right. And Ms. Loftus——I'm sorry.
If we could scroll back up quickly, just because we covered
this when the jury didn't see it.
Q. Under the column File Number, the column B, Ms. Wu——
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A. Yes.
Q. ——do you see how there's numbers with MLP in the entries
beneath that column?
A. MLP.
Q. Well, for example, in row 3 it says MLP 0011-7?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you just explain again, while the jury can see it,
what that is a reference to.
A. M means Maywind.
(Continued on next page)
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BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. These file numbers, are these references to the sorts of
screenshots we looked at first?
MR. SCHIRICK: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
A. Yes.
THE COURT: You can't answer. The answer is stricken.
Q. Could you explain what these are references to, Ms. Wu?
A. "M" means Maywind. "L" means lawsuit. "P" means Phoenix
Farm. And that four numbers up these letters identify
different farm. For example, 0011 just MOS farm, Himalaya New
York MOS.
And seven, before this, Zhang Yongbing ask his
assistant to send table to different farms to let the farm
owner or related person to fill that table. That table
included ten questions; such as, when did your farm started
this loan program; when did your farm send the first amount to
Maywind; how much total about your loan program, etc., etc. I
cannot remember all of the ten questions. So according to each
farm's answers about that table; one, just question one; two
just question two. Here, seven, just for the question seven.
The screenshot about that question seven included some money
amount or bank information and just use those information to
fill this form. Also, some farms also send some related bank
statement wire transfer details.
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Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could show the witness what's marked as
Government Exhibit VN-12.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, same objection.
MR. FERGENSON: I'll offer it in a moment, your Honor.
Q. Is this the document that was shared in the chat group,
Ms. Wu?
A. Yes.
Q. And by the way, Ms. Wu, the documents that were shared in
the chat group that we looked at, did you provide these
documents to the government?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government
Exhibit VN-12.
MR. SCHIRICK: Same objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VN-12 received in evidence)
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. All right. Ms. Loftus, maybe we can minimize the top bar
so we can see more of this excel, and we could scroll up, if we
could just scroll down slightly.
Now, Ms. Wu, I want to focus you on row 37, where it
says row zero to 35 and it gives a grand total. What's the
grand total there listed in blue?
A. Just added together the above transfer amount.
Q. And does that say $106,489,540?
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A. Yes.
Q. Now I want to scroll back up slightly, Ms. Loftus. We can
just look at one example. You can go up to row 17.
So, Ms. Wu, this row says the amount is $30.8 million.
Do you see that?
A. Mm hm.
Q. And it says sender, and then there's a question mark, and
then it says receiver and there's a question mark, and the
receiver is Abu Dhabi. Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know why there are question marks here?
A. All this information from screenshot from Sara. And in
that screenshot, Sara just list these three to Abu Dhabi LA and
G Service, but didn't mention where from, so question mark
here.
But we didn't have any details; for example, bank
statement, wire transfer statement to show Abu Dhabi LA
G Service, so question mark.
Q. Do you know why money was sent to Abu Dhabi?
A. I don't know.
Q. You can take that down, Ms. Loftus.
Now, Ms. Wu, do you know how if at all your $20,000
was spent after you sent it to the MOS farm?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you ever receive GTV stock for your loan?
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A. No.
Q. Did you ever receive interest payments for your loan?
A. No.
Q. What, if anything, Ms. Wu, did Miles Guo say in his
broadcast about using investor money for himself?
A. No.
Q. What did he say?
A. He said nobody can touch our money, even a penny safe, all
safe.
Q. If you had known Miles Guo used investor money for personal
expenses, would you have invested in the farm loan program?
MR. SCHIRICK: Objection.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. No.
Q. Would you have invested in anything he promoted?
MR. SCHIRICK: Objection.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. No.
Q. Ms. Wu, did there come a time as you mention before when
you asked for a refund of the farm loan program money you sent?
A. September 2022.
Q. And we'll talk about the timing, but did you get a refund?
A. Yes.
Q. Did the refund include any interest?
A. No.
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Q. Did the refund include any GTV stock?
A. No.
Q. When you requested your refund, who did you talk to about
that in September 2022?
A. First I contact G Series volunteer in the MOS farm, and she
said she would contact Xia Qidong about this and then let me
wait. I waited several weeks. Nothing happened, so I contact
that volunteer again. And the volunteer said maybe Xia Qidong
forgot about that, and she would ask him again. And later Xia
Qidong contact me through email, and we talked several times.
He ask some question, also let me sign a refund
agreement about my bank account, and then he said he would give
me a paper check, so later I got a paper check.
Q. We'll come back to the timing of when you requested it.
But let me ask, Ms. Wu, did there come a time when you sent
money to G/Clubs?
A. October 2020.
Q. How much did you send to G/Clubs?
A. 10,000.
Q. Where did you send that money?
A. G/Clubs Operating, LLC.
Q. And what was the name on the account that you used to send
the money to G/Club?
A. Joint account.
Q. And, Ms. Wu, why did you send $10,000 to G/Club?
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A. GTV stock.
Q. Why would you think you would get GTV stock by sending
money to G/Clubs?
A. Miles Guo said.
Q. Where did Miles Guo say that?
A. In his video, maybe several videos.
Q. Did you get GTV shares?
A. No.
Q. What benefits, if any, did you get from your G/Clubs
membership?
A. I didn't get anything.
Q. What's G Fashion, Ms. Wu?
A. Miles Guo created that website to sell fashion such as
clothes, jewelry.
Q. And what connection, if any, was there between G Fashion
and G/Clubs?
A. If you have G/Club membership, you can get some kind of
discount when you make purchase of G Fashion.
Q. Did you ever buy G Fashion?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. I don't like it, not my style, and ridiculously expensive.
Q. So, Ms. Wu, why did you pay $10,000 for a G/Clubs
membership?
A. GTV stock.
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MR. SCHIRICK: Objection, asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled.
Q. Ms. Wu, did you ever request a refund of the money you sent
to G/Clubs?
A. Yes.
Q. Around when did you do that?
A. December 2022.
Q. You mentioned you requested a refund of the farm loan in
September 2022 earlier?
A. Yes.
Q. Why did you wait until December of 2022 to ask for G/Club
refund?
A. Before the G/Club refund request, actually I ask for H Coin
refund.
Q. And so what was the timing? If you could walk us through
the timing of your refund request, and we'll talk about H Coin
in a moment?
A. I felt loan program maybe the easiest one to ask for
refund, so I did it first.
Q. And why did you think the farm loan program would be
easiest?
A. Before I heard Xia Qidong was under government
investigation and more and more investigation put on him, and I
got a chance to translate some emails among Xia Qidong and some
other MOS members. In those emails, they discuss about the
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loan program refund. At that time in those emails Xia Qidong
behave a little reasonable, so I felt a good sign for me to go
ahead.
Q. And why didn't you ask for refunds from all the investment
projects at the same time?
A. I was afraid they just expel me from the farm, I would got
nothing.
Q. And why were you concerned about being expelled from the
farm for asking for refunds?
A. They do this. They did this a lot.
Q. What did Alliance members call people who were expelled
from the farms that way after asking for refunds?
MR. SCHIRICK: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. CCP spy.
Q. Ms. Wu, to bring you back to the G/Clubs refund request,
how did you request your G/Clubs refund?
A. I ask the farm first, but the farm said none of their
business. I should go to G/Clubs to ask them. So I log on
G/Club and ask the online agent. Then G/Club send me email to
let me fill a refund request form. I filled it and submitted
it, and nothing happen till now.
Q. How often, if at all, were you emailing G/Clubs?
A. In about a year, I wrote to them everyday.
Q. Did you ever get an answer?
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A. Machine answers.
Q. Do you recall what the machine answer said?
A. Our staff will review your request, something like that.
Q. Ms. Wu, did you ever get your G/Clubs money, the $10,000
back?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever get, for this money transfer, did you ever get
any shares in GTV or any other company?
A. No.
Q. Ms. Wu, what was the H Coin quota?
A. It is complicated formula to calculate the number of
H Coins you should get according to your previous investment,
including your Rule of Law Foundation donation.
Q. What was the price of each H Coin in someone's H Coin
quota?
A. 10 cent each coin.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could show the witness what's marked as
Government Exhibit VN-37.
What's this document, Ms. Wu?
A. H Coin agreement.
MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government
Exhibit VN-37.
MR. SCHIRICK: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit VN-37 received in evidence)
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Q. Is this your H Coin agreement, Ms. Wu?
A. Yes.
Q. Which farm was it with?
A. MOS farm.
Q. And Ms. Loftus if we could zoom on the middle paragraph
there, the larger paragraph.
I'm not going to read the entirety of the paragraph,
Ms. Wu, but how many H Coins were you in your H Coin quota?
A. 44,500.
Q. And what was the price of each of those H Coin?
A. Ten cents each.
Q. If we could zoom out and go to page six, Ms. Loftus,
please.
Did you sign this document, Ms. Wu?
A. Yes.
Q. What was the date you signed it?
A. October 28, 2021.
Q. Who else signed it?
A. Xia Qidong.
Q. Let's zoom out, Ms. Loftus. And if we can go back up
slightly to page two. And if we could zoom on paragraph five
through the bottom. I'll just read a little bit of this,
Ms. Wu.
It says, a material term of this letter of agreement
is that you hereby irrevocably consent fully and indefinitely
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complying with the following warranties and undertakings. You
warrant and confirm that you are a member of the HF, and
therefore subscribe to the rules and ideology of the HF.
And we can zoom out, go to page three, please. If we
could zoom on the one through four Roman numerals. I'll read
these, Ms. Wu.
You undertake to not taking any action, endorsing any
action or facilitating any action, whether directly or
indirectly anything which is intended to or goes against the
core values and ideals of HF. I'll skip ahead a little bit and
reading II. It says, you undertake to not take any action --
and skip ahead slightly -- which is intended to or could
potentially hurt or damage the mission and ideology of HF.
Number three says, You undertake to not demonstrate --
skip ahead a little bit -- any support or benefit in any form
to the Chinese Communist Party or CCP or any CCP officials.
Number four says, You undertake to not take any action --
skipping ahead -- which is intended to or could potentially
hurt or damage the reputation or operation of the exchange.
Ms. Wu, what's your understanding of what these means?
A. Non-sense.
Q. I'm sorry, Ms. Wu.
A. I feel this is non-sense. I don't understand why write
these terms.
Q. What's your understanding of what happens if you criticize
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the movement?
MR. SCHIRICK: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. If we could zoom out. If we could go back down to the
signature page, page six.
Now, Ms. Wu, you signed this October 28, 2021. Did
you send money to pay for your H Coin quota?
A. Actually, I paid for the H Coin in April 2021. I don't
remember if I remember correctly, I don't remember at that time
I had this agreement.
Q. And about how many did you pay in April 2021?
A. Less than $5,000.
Q. Did you send -- withdrawn. We can go ahead and take this
down for now, Ms. Loftus.
Where did you send your a little less than $5,000 for
the H Coin quota?
A. They gave me a personal account to send my money into.
Q. When you say they gave you, who gave you the personal
account?
A. Volunteer, G Series volunteer.
Q. And what was the name on the account that you used to send
the H Coin quota money?
A. I don't remember, joint account or my own account.
Q. Ms. Wu, why didn't you send the H Coin quota money directly
to the Himalaya Exchange?
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A. They didn't give us any account related to Himalaya
Exchange.
Q. What was the Alliance Foundation?
A. They said later, very later, just this is the foundation to
hold our H Coins and do the digital currency operation to get
better profit for us.
Q. And did you, as a general matter, Ms. Wu, what's your
understanding of who could invest directly, buy H Coins
directly through the Himalaya exchange?
A. Should be farm members who are not in America and Japan,
maybe Canada. I don't remember, but definitely USA and Japan.
Q. What, if any, commissions did you have to pay by not
sending money directly to Himalaya Exchange?
A. Five percent.
Q. Where would that five percent commission go?
A. I don't know.
Q. Ms. Wu, why did you send this money in April 2021 to buy
the H Coin quota?
A. Miles Guo said that this digital currency would be the
leading digital currency in the world in the future. At that
time already many countries including famous financial
institutions may interested in or may already bought those
H Coins for themselves. So take your seats. This your chance,
and then they used our previous investment to calculate the
quota, so why not.
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Q. When you use the phrase "Take your seats," that's something
Miles Guo said. What was your understanding of what take your
seats meant? What are you referring to?
A. Not everyone has this chance. You are so lucky to have
this chance so you cannot lose it anyway because you will never
have this chance in your life anymore.
Q. What, if anything, did Guo say about H Coins in gold?
A. Excuse me.
Q. What, if anything, did Guo say about H Coins and gold?
A. He said Himalaya Exchange has 20 percent gold as the
reserve.
Q. And was this 20 percent gold reserve important to you?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you explain to the jury why that was important to
you?
A. First, if financial institution has this ability to buy 20
percent gold as the reserve, this institution's financial
ability should be very good.
And second I have the impression that many banks in
the world, including federal reserve, they all have gold as
their reserve, so this sounds so formal.
Q. Ms. Wu, did you ever have an account at the Himalaya
Exchange?
A. No.
Q. To your knowledge were there ever H Coins held in your name
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or your account on the Himalaya Exchange?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever request that your H Coin quota money be
returned?
A. Yes.
Q. And around when did you do that?
A. After the loan program refund, about October 2022.
Q. Did you get that money back?
A. Most part after almost half year.
Q. And how much money did you receive back approximately?
A. 4,500, around that.
Q. Did you get back the five percent commission?
A. No.
Q. Did Miles Guo pay back what you lost?
A. No.
Q. Ms. Wu, you said at the beginning of your testimony you're
no longer a follower of Miles Guo. What caused you to have
doubts about the movement?
A. First, the SEC, the settlement of GTV. Before SEC declared
this, Miles Guo and his helpers never mention anything about
this. Then the translation for that lawsuit. I got so many
screenshots show so many things.
For example, Sara Wei open more than 170 bank
accounts. I just felt so weird about this. Is that normal? I
don't know. Because at this time, I still trusted Miles Guo
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and this organization, but I just felt some kind of a weird
things here. Also before that I already felt not that free
speech inside this group. People shouldn't criticize Miles Guo
and people around him, close to him, you should be careful
about what you said and what you wrote. So then later, I just
heard government begin to investigate some people such as Xia
Qidong. Also they were so reluctant to sign back this
contracts to us, although those contracts have a lot of flaws
inside. I don't know why.
So little by little, I just -- also they send people
to protest in front of homes and workplaces of those people who
criticize Miles Guo with invoking pictures and language.
Sometimes it turn to violence. Some people were sent to
hospital because of this. Also, Miles Guo just use volunteers
to death. I don't know why. Just the moments after moments,
events by events, never stopped. Just left you no time to
think others, no time to get touch with others. I heard Miles
Guo said by himself in his video, one volunteer was send to
hospital because of the overstress of the volunteer work. But
Miles Guo said we shouldn't like CCP, just the manner of
abusing people. This kind of abusing. I don't know why. Just
volunteer, right. Why so hard?
Also for H Coins. They said this would be the most
secured digital currency in the world. One day they said,
millions or tens of millions H Coins disappear, missing. They
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couldn't locate them, okay. Also for the H Coin lockup.
Before they promised for us who put those H Coins into famous
digital currency institution, we could redeem our H Coins at
any time as long as that institution already have our coins at
least six months. Never happened.
Actually, several months later, I don't remember exact
time Miles Guo said they needed to lock our H Coins at least
three years. Nobody can touch it. And before the arrest of
Miles Guo, one Iron Blood Group member said we needed to lockup
our H Coins maybe at least ten years. A lot of other things,
just little by little.
Q. Ms. Wu, to go back to a couple of things you said. One
thing was the H Coin. Just so we understand the last thing you
were discussing, what was the H Coin lockup?
A. Just they didn't want people to get their money back from
H Coin. This is my understanding. So they don't want you
touch H Coin. You cannot get any money from them.
Q. You also mentioned free speech and protest. What sorts of
protests did you watch?
A. I didn't like watch it, just listen to what they said about
this protest. For example, SEC protest. One person who
criticize Miles Guo a lot who is in Canada, they protest three
times. Each time 10 days, 20 days. I don't remember exactly.
And they using a lot of invoking pictures, also including
neighbors, friends, family.
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Q. And what, if anything, did the Alliance say about people or
call people who were being protested?
MR. SCHIRICK: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled. You can answer.
A. You mean Miles Guo call them?
Q. Yeah, what did Miles Guo call them?
A. CCP spy.
Q. And what effect did these sorts of -- this about CCP spies,
what effect did that and the protest have on your doubts?
MR. SCHIRICK: Objection, asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. Why so many CCP spies around us, I don't know. I feel
that's ridiculous.
Q. Now, Ms. Wu, did Miles Guo ever talk about being targeted
by the CCP?
A. Yes.
Q. What sorts of things did he say?
A. He said he was -- okay. He said the CCP wanted to kill
him. He said CCP arrest his family and almost to him, but he
escape it. He said CCP seized his property, his assets,
something like that.
Q. Ms. Wu, if it were true that Miles Guo was targeted by the
CCP, does that change your view of the investment projects?
A. No.
Q. Does it change your view of the movement?
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A. No.
Q. Why doesn't it change your view?
A. This movement just a scam. I don't think it's related
anything to the CCP. Also if somebody is anti-CCP, it doesn't
mean this guy could scam somebody else. That's different
things. You cannot use this anti-CCP to do something illegal.
Q. What do you mean by that?
A. Just, for example, you scam money, now you said you scam
money for anti-CCP. I just cannot understand. If you anti-CCP
and you scam money, you think you better than the CCP?
Q. Ms. Wu, overall did you make money or lose money from your
investment?
A. I lost some.
Q. How much did you lose approximately?
A. Around $15,000.
Q. Did Miles Guo personally pay back the $15,000?
MR. SCHIRICK: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. No.
Q. Did you ever ask him one-on-one to do that?
A. No.
Q. Were you ever in one-on-one communication with him?
A. No.
Q. Ms. Wu, sitting here today are you still anti-CCP?
A. Yes.
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Q. Do you still trust Miles Guo?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
MR. SCHIRICK: Asked and answered, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. He just a liar. He's very good at acting and cheating, but
I feel he's not honest, reliable, credible, not a decent guy to
be trusted in any way.
MR. FERGENSON: No further questions.
THE COURT: Cross examination.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Ms. Wu, you were born in China; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. You came to the US in 2001?
A. Yes.
Q. And you have a postgraduate degree in computer science,
right?
A. Yes, master.
Q. A master's in computer science. So you worked as a
computer programmer?
A. Yes.
Q. And are you retired now?
A. I retired myself.
Q. Fair enough. And when did you retire?
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A. 2010.
Q. And your husband, he still works?
A. Yes.
Q. And he works as a computer programmer?
A. Yes.
Q. And where does he work?
A. A medicine company.
Q. That's okay. I'll move on.
You said you first heard of Miles Guo in 2018, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Because you saw some of his videos online?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was on YouTube?
A. Yes.
Q. And I believe you testified that in 2020 you started
watching Mr. Guo's videos just about everyday?
A. From one, two times a week to everyday, not from the
beginning everyday.
Q. Okay. But up to a point everyday?
A. Yes.
Q. And is it fair to say that his videos were anti-CCP in
2020?
A. He said something about CCP badness, that's it, and some
kind of a gossip inside the CCP.
Q. Right. The gossip you refer to is, he was exposing what he
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believed were some of the secrets of the CCP, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And now you were already anti-CCP before you were
introduced to Mr. Guo's videos, right?
A. At that time actually I maybe inside was, but I didn't
realize that clearly.
Q. And you had done some of your own research on the Chinese
Communist Party around this time, right?
THE COURT: Around what time.
MR. SCHIRICK: Around 2020, your Honor.
A. Actually before that from my family's history and
experience, I already notice a lot about that. That is why
when I watched Miles Guo video, I thought he said something
true.
Q. And your family experience was partially based on the fact
that your parents were ill, right?
A. My parents illness you mean?
Q. Yes.
A. Not only about that.
Q. Well, in part is my question.
A. Yes.
Q. And you felt that they were not treated well in China when
they were ill, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was part of why you became anti-CCP even in your
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mind, if not in action, right?
A. Yeah, part.
Q. What was the other part?
A. My family's history.
Q. And when you say your family history, do you mean something
different than your parents' illness?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell us what you mean by that?
A. My father was sacrificed in fighting of the CCP when he was
young.
Q. Okay. Now, when you began participating in the movement,
do you understand what I mean by the movement?
A. Rules of law movement?
Q. Yes.
A. Okay.
Q. When you began participating in the movement, you didn't
expect that your participation would lead to the overthrow of
the CCP, right?
A. Miles Guo said.
Q. I'm asking, ma'am, what you thought, what you believed.
A. If can do that, good. If cannot, at least do something.
Q. Did you believe that your participation would overthrow the
CCP?
A. Maybe.
Q. Did you believe that the Rules of Law movement could
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overthrow the CCP?
A. Maybe.
Q. Okay. Fair enough. But you didn't necessarily expect that
it would overthrow the CCP, right?
A. Anything possible, so who knows.
Q. My question is, you didn't necessarily expect that to be
the case?
THE COURT: Asked and answered. Move on.
Q. In fact, you recall telling the government that you
participated because you thought it would help wake people up,
correct?
A. At this time, yes.
Q. Help them to wake up to how the CCP operates?
A. At least to let people know more.
Q. Sure. And help them understand the truth, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Now do you still have family in China?
A. You mean close family, not relatives?
Q. Any family.
A. Cousin, uncle, something like that.
Q. And how about your husband, does he have family in China as
well?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you speak with them? Are you in touch with them?
A. My husband's family, actually they have dialect I could not
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understand. They're language, I could not understand. They
have some dialects.
Q. Have you visited anyone in China since you left in 2001?
A. 2001, yes.
Q. And when did you return to China?
A. I went there a lot of times.
Q. You visited a lot of times?
A. Yes.
Q. I just want to go through them. Tell me when you visited?
A. Almost every year.
Q. About once a year since 2001?
A. Yes. Maybe not the first two years, but after that.
Q. And so in the year 2000, you visited at least one?
A. 2000?
Q. I'm sorry, 2020.
A. Not COVID-19. I mean before COVID-19.
Q. Before Covid 19. Okay. Fair enough. In 2019, you visited
at least once?
A. Yes.
Q. Was it more than once?
A. Sometime more than once.
Q. And how about since Covid, have you been back?
A. Since?
Q. Mm hm.
A. My father dead. I don't want to go back.
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Q. So you haven't been back since Covid?
A. Yes.
Q. In preparation for your testimony here today, you met with
the government lawyers and agents on a number of occasions,
right?
A. Several times.
Q. Several times?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember how many times?
A. I didn't count it.
Q. Well, let's see if we can bill out a list.
Do you recall having a telephone interview with the
FBI at the end of November of 2022?
A. 2022, maybe. I can not remember the time.
Q. Do you remember when the first time was that you spoke to
members of the FBI or the department of justice?
A. I don't remember, but, yes.
Q. Approximately 2022?
A. Yeah, 2022, I don't remember the time.
Q. End of 2022?
A. You mean twice?
Q. Meaning toward the end of 2022.
A. Maybe.
Q. How about in January of 2024?
A. What happened?
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Q. I'm asking you, did you meet with representative of the
U.S. government?
A. Maybe.
Q. Mr. Fergenson here who questioned you earlier today by
Webex?
A. I don't remember, January or February. I'm not sure.
Q. What about in April of 2024, did you have an in-person
interview with Mr. Fergenson?
A. You mean online?
Q. No, an interview with him in person.
A. Face-to-face?
Q. Either way.
A. Yes.
Q. And then again in mid-May, May 17?
A. Mid-May 17?
Q. Mm hm.
A. Face-to-face, in-person?
Q. Either way, ma'am. We'll just say any kind of meeting,
whether it was virtual --
A. I just remember --
Q. Just let me finish. Whether it's an in-person meeting or
virtual meeting or phone call. That's what I mean by meeting
with the government.
A. I don't remember May 17, no.
Q. You don't remember meeting with them in May?
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A. I met Mr. Fergenson in May, I can't remember that time
because we met May 26. That's just around Memorial Day so I
can remember that.
Q. That was my next fix question. So, fine, you met with him
then. And then again on June 11, right, two days ago?
A. Today 13? Yes.
Q. And then again yesterday in preparation for testimony?
A. Yesterday?
Q. Did you meet with him yesterday?
A. Said hello, is that kind of a meeting?
Q. That I think would qualify as a meeting. You said hello?
A. Yes. When you just meet somebody say hello, that's still
normal.
Q. Great. That's a total of seven meeting, right?
A. I don't know. If you say seven, okay seven. I did not
count it.
Q. Either way you met with him on numerous occasions, right?
A. Numerous, no, several times.
Q. Okay. And in addition during the time that you met with
him, and even before, you forwarded the government numerous
emails, right?
A. Several, should not be numerous.
Q. About how many would you say?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You don't remember, but it was several, not numerous?
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A. You see, you cannot submit as many. You can't because they
limit the size and the number you can submit, so definitely not
numerous.
Q. Okay. So you forwarded this information to try to help
them, right?
A. Help everybody.
Q. You forwarded the information to try to help the U.S.
government, right?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Well, you've gone from him to the U.S.
government, so you may answer.
A. I think help everybody.
Q. Are you helping Miles Guo?
A. Yeah.
Q. You are?
A. Just make him stop to do something bad.
Q. Okay. Noted.
Now, you testified on direct about making an
investment in GTV, right?
A. Through VOG.
Q. And you invested $14,000, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was an investment with Sara Wei, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And this wasn't the first time that you had purchased
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stock, right?
A. Can I just understand, Sara Wei kind of brokerage, stock
brokerage. If this way, this is the first time.
Q. My question was different. This wasn't the first time that
you purchased stock, right?
You have other investments? You have other stock
investments, right?
A. Purchase online, yeah.
Q. Now, you knew that there was some risk associated with
purchasing a stock, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Every investment has some risk, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And, in fact, even Mr. Guo you recall him saying that
investing is always a little risky, right?
A. But he also said he guarantee every penny.
Q. I would like you to listen to my question.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, she's answering the
question.
MR. SCHIRICK: It's non-responsive, your Honor.
THE COURT: Just stick to the question and don't offer
additional question.
MR. SCHIRICK: Could we please have the court reporter
read back the question.
(Record was read)
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THE COURT: You may answer.
A. As far as I can remember, he said this very late, not at
the very beginning.
Q. But he said it, right, you remember him saying it?
A. He ask about our investment. At that time he didn't say
this.
Q. Okay. Now, you never spoke with Mr. Guo directly about
your investment before you made it, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You only communicated with Sara Wei, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Or people who worked for her, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And, in fact, you sent your $14,000 to Ms. Wei, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And as you testified to on direct, I believe you sent it in
a few different transactions?
A. Yes.
Q. And those transactions were between approximately May 21
and 29, 2020, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And some of those transfers were in fact to Ms. Wei's
personal bank account, correct?
A. She gave that account to me.
Q. She gave you that account and you sent it to her?
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A. Yes.
Q. And some were to a VOG bank account, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And the ones that went to the VOG bank account, again to be
clear, Ms. Wei told you to send those there, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Now Mr. Guo didn't provide any specifics about where to
send that money, right?
A. Yes.
Q. All the specific instructions came from Ms. Wei?
A. But Ms. Wei and a lot of other guys, they made a lot of
videos in which they said, it was Miles Guo who give us this
opportunities, so we should show our gratitude to Miles Guo
forever. And Miles Guo will create more similar opportunities
for us to invest in later.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, move to strike as
non-responsive.
THE COURT: So once again, if you listen carefully to
the question and only answer what is being asked. So if he
asks you, what is your favorite color. Then you can answer
whatever it is, blue, red, yellow. But you wouldn't say, and
my favorite flower is the rose. Don't add additional
information. So the prior answer is stricken.
Q. All the specific instructions about where to send money
came from Sara Wei, right?
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A. Yes.
Q. Now, do you recall when the GTV private placement closed?
A. June.
Q. June. June 2nd?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Can we just please pull up what's in evidence as Government
Exhibit Z9 and go to the June 2, 2020 entry. I believe it's
page six.
Now, Ms. Wu, do you see what's displayed in the screen
in front of you?
A. You mean the picture?
Q. Correct.
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recognize that as a screen capture from a video?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. Do you recognize that as a screen capture from a video?
A. Maybe, yes.
Q. Do you recognize this as a video that Mr. Guo posted when
the GTV private placement ended in June of 2020?
A. I don't remember that date, but he did that.
Q. But you do recall this video?
A. Yes.
Q. You recall seeing a video?
A. Maybe the same, maybe the same. I'm not sure, but yes.
Q. Now, you testified earlier that during this period you were
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watching Mr. Guo's videos pretty regularly, right?
A. Yes.
Q. So you recall seeing this video. Do you believe you saw it
around the time that it was posted?
A. You said June 2nd, but I don't remember. I just remember
in June.
Q. So, ma'am, I'm not asking you about the specific date.
My question is, do you remember seeing it around the
time that it was posted?
A. Yes.
Q. Thank you. We can take that down.
Now, you testified that you were refunded 92 percent
of the $14,000 that you sent to Sara Wei; is that right?
A. From SEC, yes.
Q. I want to go back to Sara Wei for a second.
Can you tell us who is Sara Wei?
A. She is the earliest, maybe earliest, maybe, I'm not sure,
but from my understanding she is the earliest person who
cooperated with Miles Guo.
Q. And did a time come when Sara Wei had a falling out with
Mr. Guo?
A. 2021 I guess. I cannot remember exactly. That is why
there was that lawsuit MOS farm to Phoenix.
Q. Thank you. We'll get there in a second. So you do recall
a time when they had a falling out?
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A. Approximately, not exactly.
Q. Again, ma'am, I'm not asking you the exact time. I'm just
asking you if you recall that they had a falling out?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, I believe you just started to talk about a lawsuit
that resulted from that falling out, correct?
A. The lawsuit you mean result from a fallen breakup?
Q. From the breakup, yes, that followed the breakup?
A. Yes, follow.
Q. And that was a lawsuit that the farms brought against Sara
Wei and her farm, right?
A. Sara Wei at that time already broke up with Miles Guo, so
I'm not sure if Miles Guo at that time still keep her at that
farm leader.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, move to strike as
non-responsive.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, I think she's trying to
answer it very carefully but answering the question.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, the answer is totally not
responsive to the question.
THE COURT: The answer is stricken.
Q. The lawsuit was brought by the farms against Sara Wei's
farm and Sara Wei?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, you're aware that the Mountain of Spices farm, MOS
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farm I believe you referred to it on direct, sued Sara Wei for
stealing funds that supporters had put into the farm loans
program, right?
A. Should be.
Q. Yes?
A. Yes.
Q. And that lawsuit was in 2021, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And where was that lawsuit if you remember?
A. I think Texas.
Q. And you provided translation services to the MOS farm in
support of that lawsuit, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And the result of that lawsuit -- withdrawn.
You're aware of the result of that lawsuit?
A. No.
Q. So you're not aware that the result of that lawsuit was a
default judgment against Ms. Wei?
A. No, but I --
MR. FERGENSON: Objection, your Honor. She said she
doesn't know.
THE COURT: Asked and answered.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, I believe she was still in
the process of answering it. It may have jogged her
recollection.
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MR. FERGENSON: That's not correct. She said no.
THE COURT: The answer was no.
Q. Now, you were asked some questions about some government
exhibits by Mr. Fergenson earlier today, right?
A. Today, no.
Q. You don't recall testifying on direct and being shown those
spreadsheets?
A. Oh, you mean here, yes.
Q. Yes, here, today just a few minutes ago. Okay.
Now, did you have an agreement with the MOS farm to
provide translation services in connection with that lawsuit
against Ms. Wei?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, may we have a sidebar?
THE COURT: All righty. Step up.
(Continued on next page)
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(At sidebar)
MR. FERGENSON: I'm not sure where this line of
questioning is going, but the reason for my request, your
Honor, is the witness signed an NDA with the MOS farm. And I
assume, but I just wanted to confirm, we're not going anywhere
where Mr. Schirick is going to suggest she's going to get sued
or retaliated against for breaching the NDA. I assume that's
not the case. I don't know where we're going with it.
MR. SCHIRICK: You assume correct. That's not where
I'm going with this.
THE COURT: Okay.
(Continued on next page)
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(In open court; jury present)
THE COURT: You may continue.
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. So that agreement that you had with the MOS farm was to
provide translation services, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And it was to provide translation services in support of
the MOS farm's lawsuit against Ms. Wei?
A. Yes.
Q. And that's why you had access to the spreadsheets that you
testified about earlier today, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, if we could please bring up Government Exhibit
GXVN-12. If we could scroll up a little, please, or down.
That's fine. Thank you.
Now, Ms. Wu, you recognize this as the document that
you looked at a few minutes ago when Mr. Fergenson was asking
you questions?
A. Yes.
Q. And I'd like to just focus you on the line 17 that
Mr. Fergenson focused you on where there's a reference to Abu
Dhabi?
A. Yes.
Q. You see that?
A. Yes.
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Q. Now, you don't know that any money was actually sent to Abu
Dhabi, right?
A. From that screenshot, the money amount on that screenshot.
Q. My question is, you don't know yourself that money was
actually sent to Abu Dhabi, right?
A. We just do the calculation, so I don't know.
Q. Right. You just did the translation, right?
A. Calculation here, calculation for the number.
Q. Sure. Now, there's also a question mark next to Abu Dhabi,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know why that's there?
A. Because Sara didn't provide us the detail, just that
screenshot for the amount and the destination.
Q. So you didn't have the details, and we don't know if money
was actually sent to Abu Dhabi, right?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to form.
THE COURT: Compound question. If you want to break
it up.
Q. So you didn't have the details, right?
A. At least I haven't. I don't know others.
Q. Right. You didn't have the details, right?
A. Yes.
THE COURT: Asked and answered.
Q. And the whole point of putting together this information
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that's in this spreadsheet was to support the lawsuit against
Ms. Wei, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And the other spreadsheets that we looked at were also for
the purpose of supporting the lawsuit against Ms. Wei, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Because she had been accused of taking the money, right?
A. Yes.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, I was going to move to
another topic. This maybe a good stopping point if we're doing
11:30.
THE COURT: We're going to go to noon.
MR. SCHIRICK: I'm sorry. I didn't realize that.
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. We can take that down.
Now, you testified earlier today that you were a
member of the MOS farm, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And approximately when did you join the MOS farm?
A. Maybe May or June 2020.
Q. And that farm was located here in New York, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And at the time you joined in May or June of 2020, you
began doing volunteer work, right?
A. Yes.
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Q. And you did the translation work that we just talked about?
A. Not this one at the beginning.
Q. What kind of work did you do at the beginning?
A. There was a translation group in the farm, so I joined that
group to do some news translation they ask it.
Q. Any other kinds of volunteer work?
A. Modify some other people's articles.
Q. And were there other people doing volunteer work?
A. You mean what other --
Q. Other members of the farm doing volunteer work?
A. A lot of, yeah.
Q. A lot of people. What kinds of volunteer work were other
people doing?
A. Video.
Q. Video recording?
A. Just like media. They also had workout group. I don't
know what they do, just workout, some exercises, workout group,
religion group, patrol group, just to do patrol to see if
somebody said something not good just delayed or maybe expel
from other farm.
THE COURT: What was the name of that group?
THE WITNESS: Patrol.
THE COURT: How do you spell that?
THE WITNESS: P-A-T-R-O-L.
THE COURT: Patrol.
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THE WITNESS: Patrol.
A. And financial group, legal group, education group.
Q. And what did the education group do?
A. Educate people.
Q. Can you explain that any further?
A. I don't know. I don't know that group, what they were
doing. I don't know.
Q. Anything else?
A. Writing, but the writing is not like any other group, just
a lot of groups had writing group inside.
Q. Make sense. Now, a time came as you testified on direct
that you made a loan to the farm, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was in August of 2020?
A. Yes.
Q. For $20,000 right?
A. Yes.
Q. And Mr. Fergenson showed you the loan agreement, right?
A. Yes.
Q. So if we could just pull up that loan agreement GXVN-39.
Now, you testified that you can't recall if you read
the loan agreement before you signed it, right?
A. I really don't remember because it so hurry at that time.
I read it long time ago.
Q. Sure. But you can't recall whether it was before or after
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that you read it, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. So it's possible that you read it before, right?
THE COURT: Don't ask her to speculate.
MR. SCHIRICK: It's a logical conclusion.
THE COURT: Don't testify.
Q. You also testified that you recall Mr. Guo saying at some
point that the proceeds from these loans would go to purchase
GTV stock, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, don't you recall that he said that after you signed
this agreement?
A. I don't remember, that long time ago.
Q. Now, isn't it true you recall Mr. Guo saying that the money
loan through the loan program was for the farm?
A. He said interest to the farm. I don't know what does that
mean, just I remember it like this.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, move to strike as
non-responsive.
THE COURT: Well, I think the first sentence is
responsive with respect to interest, and so the second part
will be stricken.
Q. Now, you recall telling the government that you understood
that the farm could use the money in any project it wanted,
right?
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A. Xia Qidong said that.
Q. My question is, do you recall telling the government that
that was your understanding?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Okay. Let's see if we can refresh your recollection. Can
we put up for the parties and the witness 3620-10, page three.
Now, Ms. Wu, if you could just read what's in front of
you or should be in front of you momentarily to yourself, not
out loud, and let me know when you're done?
A. Yes.
Q. Does that remind you that that is in fact what you told the
government?
A. Yes.
Q. So it is true that you told the government that it was your
understanding that the farm could use the money to invest in
any project that it wanted, right?
A. Yes, but not the contract time.
Q. Speaking of the contract, why don't we go back to the
contract. If we could just zoom in on 1A in the contract, Use
of proceeds.
Now, this sentence says, Use of proceeds. The loan
proceeds advanced under this agreement is for the general
working capital purposes of the borrower. Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. Who is the borrower under this agreement?
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A. MOS farm.
Q. We can take that down or just zoom back out. Keep the
exhibit up, but zoom back out. If we could go to the interest
rate section, and this says that the interest rate would be
three percent per annum on the loan amount payable in full on
the final maturity date. Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. And then if we can zoom in on final maturity date. It
says, final maturity date 36 months from the effective date.
Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you understand that maturity date means when the loan
payment becomes due?
A. Yes.
Q. And so the loan payment isn't due before the maturity date,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, you expected to get interest on the loan, right?
A. Because at that time somebody already got the three percent
when I ask for the refund.
MR. SCHIRICK: Move to strike as non-responsive.
Q. You can't tell me what other people told you. I'm asking
what your understanding was at the time.
THE COURT: Sustained.
A. I understand it, so I just feel unfair why someone else.
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Q. I'm sorry. Can you speak up.
A. I understand it.
Q. You understood that it was for interest, right, the farm
loan was for interest?
A. So why not me?
Q. That's may question. So you expected interest?
A. So, I don't want it.
MR. SCHIRICK: Move to strike, your Honor.
Q. I'm asking you if at the time you signed this agreement you
expected to earn interest?
A. Actually, at that time just the three percent surprise me,
because before Miles Guo said six percent.
MR. SCHIRICK: Again, your Honor. Move to strike.
THE COURT: Both answers are stricken. I want you to
listen carefully to the question, and you may read back the
question, and answer just what's being asked.
(Record was read)
A. Not really.
Q. Ma'am, when you met with the government, do you recall
telling them that you were upset that you didn't get interest?
A. No.
Q. Let's see if we can help with that. Can we please pull up
--
MR. FERGENSON: Objection to the commentary, your
Honor.
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THE COURT: Don't testify. Ask her if there is
anything that would refresh her recollection.
Q. Would it be possible if we could show you a document to
help refresh your memory?
A. I'm not sure.
MR. SCHIRICK: May we, your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
Q. Please pull up 3620-10 at three. While we're waiting for
that, it was your impression that others had been paid
interest, right?
A. I knew some, yes.
Q. And based on that you expected to be paid interest?
A. No.
Q. You didn't expect to be paid interest? Others got it, but
you didn't expect to get interest?
THE COURT: Asked and answered.
Q. Now, isn't it true that under the loan agreement the loan
amount and any accrued interest is paid on that maturity date,
right?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: You may answer that question. Actually,
no. I do recall your asking the question, so the objection is
sustained.
Q. Now, Ms. Wu, you sought to terminate the loan agreement
before the maturity date, right?
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A. Yes, I sought it. Somebody did it, so I sought it.
Q. In fact, you did terminate the loan agreement before the
maturity date, right?
A. Yes, follow examples.
Q. And based on that, you're not entitled to any interest,
right? We just read the contract, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. Is it your understanding that based on your early
termination you are not entitled to interest?
MR. FERGENSON: To the extent it doesn't call for a
legal conclusion, no objection.
THE COURT: Her understanding, but obviously not a
legal conclusion. You may answer what your understanding is.
A. My understanding for that at that time when I ask for the
refund, I just feel this is illegal so I don't want the three
percent interest anymore that illegal money.
Q. You testified on direct that you didn't get your three
percent interest, right?
A. I said that because they didn't show any intention to give
me, so I didn't get and I also don't want that.
(Continued on next page)
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MR. SCHIRICK: Move to strike, your Honor.
MR. FERGENSON: I mean, your Honor, we've covered it
as well, so maybe we can move——
THE COURT: The answer is stricken.
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Now you entered into a release of the loan agreement,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. And the farm in fact refunded your loan; you received all
$20,000 back, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Now nowhere in the agreement that we looked at, that
we just reviewed, does it say that you would get GTV stock for
your $20,000 loan to the farm, right?
A. They use the GTV stock to allure me to buy, to go with this
loan program, so yes, I understand no GTV on the contract,
but——
Q. It doesn't say GTV stock anywhere in the contract, right?
A. So that is a scam.
Q. Right. And then in fact, you recall telling the government
during one of your meetings with them that Mr. Guo said that
the farm money is for the farm, not just TV, just——pardon me.
Withdrawn.
You recall telling the government during one of your
meetings with them that Mr. Guo said that the farm loan money
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is for the farm——
MR. FERGENSON: I believe asked and answered.
Q. ——not for GTV.
MR. FERGENSON: I believe asked and answered.
THE COURT: I'll allow her to answer the question.
A. Not on the contract time; later they said that.
Q. My question is: Do you recall telling the government that
that's your understanding at the time?
A. I told the government, but I didn't at the time, at that
time. I mean, I should tell the government they just said this
later, the contract, so——
Q. That's not what you told the government, right?
THE COURT: She's testified as to what she told the
government.
A. Because the government didn't ask that.
MR. SCHIRICK: There's no question pending, your
Honor.
MR. FERGENSON: Well, then he's just arguing with the
witness, so——
THE COURT: Move on.
Q. Now you testified earlier that you invested through a
company called Wonder Invest; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that company was set up by your husband, right?
A. Yes.
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Q. Now did you talk to your husband about the farm loan before
you made it?
A. Yes.
Q. Did your husband review the contract?
A. The con——the Wonder Invest is mine at that time.
Q. Ma'am, my question is: Did your husband review the
contract?
A. This is my contract. Why I need my husband to review the
contract? I don't understand this question.
Q. It's a simple question. He either did or didn't review it.
So my question is: Did he review it at the time?
A. I told him by myself. He didn't review, but I told him.
Q. Okay. But you told him about it.
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. Now you testified that——withdrawn.
Now you actually received your refund of the farm loan
money before you made your first complaint to the government;
is that right?
A. Yes. I don't remember the time I complained to the
government. It may be, yes.
MR. SCHIRICK: Okay. Now I'd just like to go back
briefly to GX VN39. And if we could go to page——to the
addendum that's at the end of this document.
And scroll to the bottom but not——but excluding the
last page. One more down, please.
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O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
There we go.
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Now you recall being shown this document by Mr. Fergenson?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And Mr. Fergenson pointed out that the loan
agreement was signed in November of 2021 by a representative of
the farm, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And this is signed, this addendum is signed by you around
the same time, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Like three days later.
A. Yes.
Q. Right.
MR. SCHIRICK: And if we go back to the first page of
the addendum, please.
Q. And this addendum that you signed more than a year later,
after signing the first loan contract, you testified you didn't
review this one either?
A. Almost not.
Q. So you did review it to some extent.
A. I just reviewed it where I should fill in——for example, my
name, the time.
Q. Okay. And you reviewed it and you actually included a——and
we're not going to display this, but you included a copy of
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your driver's license, as well, right?
A. They ask it.
Q. Sure. That's what was asked for, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So you had the time to fill it in and make a copy of
your driver's license. And now did you send this back by
email?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, objection to testifying.
If he has a question about that, he can ask it.
THE COURT: I'm waiting for the question.
Q. The question is: Did you return this by email?
A. I don't remember. Maybe to G service volunteer.
THE COURT: What is that, G service volunteer?
THE WITNESS: Oh, sorry. G series, G series. A lot
of G, GTV, G Fashion, G Club, it's all together, G series.
THE COURT: Please continue.
Q. And so it's possible that you handed this in hard copy to
another person?
A. No.
THE COURT: So don't ask her what might be possible.
Ask her what happened.
Q. Do you recall whether you did that? Did you hand it in
hard copy to another person?
A. Not hand, not by hand. Not by hand.
Q. Then how did you convey it, ma'am?
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O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
MR. SCHIRICK: Just trying to understand how it was
sent back.
THE COURT: You've already asked the question.
Q. So is it your testimony that at no point after signing this
addendum you reviewed it more carefully?
A. No.
Q. You never reviewed it.
A. I reviewed some.
Q. Okay.
A. Just the 3 percent, like that.
Q. Now you testified that there was some time pressure on you
with respect to the original loan agreement. There wasn't any
time pressure on you with respect to this addendum, was there?
A. Yeah.
Q. There was?
A. My family issue. My family issue.
Q. So there wasn't any time pressure put on you by Mr. Guo.
Right?
A. Yes.
Q. Right? No time pressure put on you by anybody at the
farms, right?
A. They asked several days to return it.
Q. Sure. Do you think several days is enough time to review a
four-page contract?
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A. If carefully, one by one, word by word, not enough.
Q. Four days isn't enough to review a four-page contract?
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Asked and answered, and don't testify.
MR. SCHIRICK: Okay. Okay.
Q. Now when did you, according to you, first review either the
loan agreement or the addendum, in detail?
A. Can you repeat that again.
Q. Sure.
THE COURT: Are you asking when did she make a
thorough review of the contract?
MR. SCHIRICK: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: And the addendum?
MR. SCHIRICK: Correct, your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead.
A. You mean carefully review of this?
Q. That's right. That's the question.
A. Not one by one. Maybe just some.
MR. SCHIRICK: Move to strike, your Honor.
THE COURT: The answer is stricken. The question is
when.
THE WITNESS: When. I cannot remember when.
Q. Okay. Did you ever review it carefully, before you met
with the prosecutors?
A. Yes.
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Q. When was that, approximately?
A. Around the time I asked a refund.
Q. Around the time you asked——you planned to ask for a refund,
right?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And were you surprised by what was in there?
A. Not exactly that surprised.
Q. Yeah, not that surprised, right?
A. Because I——
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor——
A. ——a lot of people said something already about this
contract.
MR. SCHIRICK: Okay. I'll move on.
Now again, I'm change——I'm going to change topics,
your Honor. Is now a good time or should we continue?
THE COURT: All right, yes. This is a fine time.
It's 11:55.
So you'll have your break. We'll return at 12:30.
Remember not to discuss the case amongst yourselves or with
anyone else. Don't permit anyone to discuss the case in your
presence. And don't read, watch, or listen to anything from
any source that has anything to do with the subject matter of
this trial.
You may step out. Don't discuss your testimony.
(Jury not present; witness not present)
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THE COURT: You may be seated.
Do the parties want to raise anything before we return
at 12:30?
MR. FERGENSON: Not from the government.
MR. SCHIRICK: Not from the defense, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right.
(Luncheon recess)
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O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
AFTERNOON SESSION
12:30 p.m.
THE COURT: Please get the jurors.
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Please be seated.
And you may continue the cross-examination.
Remember, ma'am, that you are still under oath.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
MR. SCHIRICK: Thank you, your Honor.
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. I'd like to just talk briefly about H Coin.
So I believe you testified that you purchased H Coin
in April of 2021, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you purchased $4,500 worth of H Coin; is that right?
A. You mean total?
Q. Yeah.
A. More than that.
Q. Okay. How much, in total?
A. Plus 5 percent commission, plus 35 other fees.
Q. I'm sorry. Can you just speak up a little. Plus what?
A. The H Coin fee, plus 5 percent commission, plus 35 other
fees.
Q. Right. And my question was just how much you spent on the
H Coin. Was it more than 4500 or 4500?
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O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
A. I have four——44,500, right? Then should be 4,450 for H
Coin only.
Q. Right. Okay. So you spent——am I correct in understanding
you that you spent $4,500 on H Coin?
A. Yeah, for H Coin only.
Q. Yeah. Okay. That's all my question was.
MR. SCHIRICK: All right. Now if we could please pull
up Government Exhibit VN37.
Q. And Ms. Wu, this is——I believe this is the exhibit that
Mr. Fergenson showed you on direct.
Okay. Now do you remember Mr. Fergenson asking you
some questions about this document earlier?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And this reflects here on page 1 that you purchased
44,500 coins, right?
A. Yes.
THE COURT: If you would bring the microphone close to
your mouth.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
THE COURT: You can pull it, you can move it around.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
Q. Okay. And then Mr. Fergenson asked you some questions
about your understanding of this document, right?
A. Understanding this contract?
Q. Yes.
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A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And was it your understanding at the time that you
signed this that the H Coin were being offered to you in part
because of your volunteer work for the farms?
A. They already added into this number for 44,500.
Q. Right. And my question is a little different. My question
is: Did you understand that the reason that you were being
offered the opportunity to buy this number of H Coin was partly
based on your volunteer work for the farm?
A. No, I don't understand that. I never——I never heard of
that.
Q. You didn't understand that? Am I right that there was a
formula that you testified to on direct that determined the
number of coins that you would be allocated?
A. Yes.
Q. And didn't that formula include in part how much volunteer
work you had done for the farms, or for the Alliance?
A. For the farms, that formula does not include this——this
volunteer work, H Coin. I don't know how to call it.
Q. Okay. What did it include, as far as you understand?
A. That formula calculation number, at that time, and then
when I needed to pay for this H Coin, the G series volunteer
told me I should pay how much and told me something like how
many H coins I should have.
Q. Okay. And did you——in that conversation with the volunteer
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O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
did they ask you about your volunteer work?
A. Ask my volunteer work? For what? I mean——
Q. So you'll correct me if I get it wrong, but my
understanding was that you had a conversation with a volunteer
about the allocation of H coins. Do I have that right so far?
A. Not discussion; just send me a message, just let me know.
Q. Okay. So it was by Discord?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And I'm just going to refer to that as a discussion,
if that's okay.
A. Okay.
Q. Okay. So in that Discord discussion, did the volunteer
mention your volunteer work for the farm?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Now do you recall telling the government that it was
your understanding that your volunteer work figured into the
coin allocation formula?
A. No.
Q. You don't recall that?
A. You mean I tell the government about I volunteer work for
the H Coin?
Q. Yeah. You don't recall telling the government that.
A. I——I——don't remember.
Q. Okay. Maybe it will help if I show you a document?
MR. SCHIRICK: Could we please pull up 3620-17. And
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O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
if we could just highlight that relevant portion there, Jorge.
THE WITNESS: Oh, I remember this.
Q. Does that refresh your memory that your volunteer work was
part of the formula for determining your H Coin allocation?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Great. We can put that down.
Okay. So being given this H Coin allocation was at
the time, you understood, an opportunity or a reward for your
volunteer work, right?
A. I know this after that the G series volunteer gave me the
number. At that time I felt very strange about this number,
and later, somebody told me about this.
Q. So it's your testimony you didn't understand at the time
that you were being given this opportunity to buy H Coin
because you did volunteer work, you only learned that after?
Just looking to clarify.
MR. FERGENSON: I think it misstates the testimony.
But——
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. I think when I got the Discord message, I was kind of
confused, and I just to confirm the number with that volunteer
worker, they said everything was correct, and then I just paid
the money, but later, I asked somebody else, they just said,
that was your reward.
Q. So they used the word "reward," right?
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O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
A. Yeah. After the payment, I——I understood that.
Q. Okay. But that's what you understood, that it was a
benefit you were being given as a reward for part of your work,
right?
MR. FERGENSON: Just objection to form.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Now at the time that you signed——I'm sorry.
MR. SCHIRICK: Jorge, could we pull that back up, the
37. Sorry.
Q. At the time that you signed this document, did you read
this, did you read this one?
A. Already said at that time I already wanted a refund so I
didn't pay attention, but I need to sign; I needed to sign this
first.
Q. Okay. So you didn't read this one either.
A. Not really.
Q. Okay. And your testimony is that at the time you signed
this, you had already decided that you were going to leave the
movement, right? You were uncomfortable.
A. I have not——I had not decided at that time to leave this
movement because I think even if I got all my money back, I
could still in this group, right? So at that time I hadn't
decided if leave or not. That's year 2021.
Q. So you may have——if you got all of your money back, you may
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O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
have stayed in the movement; is that right?
MR. FERGENSON: Calls for speculation.
MR. SCHIRICK: I believe that's what she just said,
your Honor.
THE COURT: I think you may answer. Go ahead.
A. I haven't——I hadn't have the final decision at that time.
The final decision made just 2022.
Q. Right. But that's what you were considering. You were
considering staying in the movement even if you got your money
back, right?
A. Yeah. Some people, they didn't pay anything but still in
the group.
Q. Right. Okay. Now did you——did a time come when you did
read this document, before you met with the prosecutors?
A. You mean——can you just repeat.
Q. Sure. Did a time come when you read this document, the one
that's on your screen, before you met with the prosecutors?
A. Yes.
Q. So you did read this one at some point.
A. Yes, some point, not all.
Q. And when was that?
A. When I asked the refund.
Q. Okay. So I believe you testified that you read your farm
loan agreements when you——when it came time to ask for a
refund, right?
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O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
A. Not all, some, yes.
Q. How many farm loan agreements are there?
A. I mean, this contract, there are several pages, right?
That's long. So——
Q. Well, let's count them. How many pages are there? If we
could just flip. Two. Three. Four. Five. Six.
A. Yeah.
Q. Five and a signature page.
A. Yes.
Q. Did I count that correctly?
A. Yes.
Q. Yes? Okay. Now you, as part of your work for the farm,
you were a translator, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You translated documents from Mandarin to English?
A. English-Mandarin, Mandarin-English.
Q. Yeah, sure. Both ways?
A. Yeah.
Q. Yeah. Makes sense. And for a five-page document, how long
would it take you to translate that?
A. This is a lot of terminology, financial or law, law
terminology. I don't want to. At that time I already thought
about leaving, so why I spend a lot of time on this?
Q. So when you did translation work for Mountains of Spices as
part of the Sara Wei lawsuit——do you remember we talked about
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that earlier today?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Now is it fair to say that there was plenty of law
and legal terminology in those materials?
A. Actually, the assistant did a lot of this part.
Q. Okay.
A. I just——just the plain translation and some calculation for
the number.
Q. Okay. So you had, it sounds like——is it fair to say you
had limited translation skills?
A. Not limited. I don't have that time. I didn't have that
time, a lot of time. That assistant always stayed night to do
this, and after that, after that——
Q. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
A. After that, she just felt so tired, and she just asked me
to help her some, something, so——
Q. Okay. And you were——I believe you testified you were not
employed at this time, right? At the time that you signed this
agreement, you'd been retired?
A. Important, retire? You mean retire myself?
Q. Yes.
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And so your testimony is that you were retired but
you didn't have the time to read a five-page document?
A. At that time I said my family issues.
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O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
Q. Okay. Now did anyone——withdrawn.
No one put pressure on you to sign this document
quickly, right?
A. Yes.
Q. I believe you testified that you signed this document weeks
if not months later, right?
A. Months, because the months later, they gave us this, the
contract.
Q. But you had already sent the money, right?
A. At that time, nothing; no contract, no agreement, nothing.
Q. Right.
A. Yeah.
Q. So you had the opportunity to review the agreement; there
was no rush to get the money in, right, because it was already
in?
A. Money already paid.
Q. Right.
A. Yeah.
Q. So you had time to review the agreement, no?
A. If I didn't sign, can I get my money back?
Q. Ma'am, can you try answering my question?
A. Okay, yeah. Review? Yes?
Q. You had time, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. That's all I'm asking.
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O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
Now as you testified before, you had——a time
came——excuse me——when you asked for a refund, right, for the H
Coin purchase?
A. Yes.
Q. Right. And you followed up a few times with a volunteer to
get the refund, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was in January of 2023, approximately, right?
A. January? You mean I got the refund?
Q. No. That you followed up with a volunteer. The timing
was, when you followed up with the volunteer, in approximately
January of 2023.
A. I still don't understand. January 2023.
Q. Do you remember when you got the refund?
A. I remember should be March.
Q. That you received the refund, right, received the money
back?
A. Some.
Q. Okay. And what you're referring to is you didn't receive
back $200 or so in what you view as fees, right?
A. 5 percent commission fee and——
Q. Right. But you got everything else back besides the
5 percent commission, right?
A. Just for the H Coin only. You asked me to calculate at the
beginning.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
Q. Right. Okay.
Now you mentioned that you invested through Wonder
Invest, right? You testified about that?
A. Not for H Coin.
Q. Okay. But you did invest through it for farms and GTV?
You made the farm loan through——
A. VOG, right? You mean VOG? One transfer, yes, was Wonder
Invest.
Q. Okay. And the farm loans?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Now does Wonder Invest——withdrawn.
Did you——did Wonder Invest invest in anything else
apart from the——I think what you called the G series
investments?
A. You asked into my own company; is that okay?
Q. Yeah. That's fine with me.
A. Okay. Yes.
Q. My question is: Did it invest in anything else?
A. My own company?
Q. Yes.
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. What?
A. Stock.
Q. What kinds of stock?
A. Just some kind of——
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
Q. Like stock on the stock exchange?
A. Yeah, yeah, just stock on the market.
Q. What kind of investments, what kind of stock?
A. What kind of stock? You mean the field, what field?
Q. Yeah. Why don't we try this: How much are those other
investments worth?
A. All together?
Q. Yeah.
A. Including already sold?
Q. Why don't——
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, just a relevance
objection.
THE COURT: Are you asking what her current portfolio
is worth?
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, she testified that she
invested through this company, so I'm just trying to figure out
what else the company invested in.
MR. FERGENSON: Just a relevance objection.
THE COURT: You may ask that question.
A. I cannot remember. I——just——
Q. Okay.
A. You want a statement? I can't——
Q. Ma'am, I'm just asking you for your memory of what else
you've invested in.
MR. FERGENSON: She said she can't remember.
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2483
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
THE COURT: She doesn't remember. Let's go.
Q. Now you testified that it was your company, but didn't you
also testify on direct that your husband gave it to you just to
play with?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. So how much, approximately, is in there for you to
play with?
A. The same questions you asked, just like how many stock,
right?
Q. No.
MR. FERGENSON: Object on relevance, your Honor.
THE COURT: Are you asking how much money her husband
gave her to play with?
MR. SCHIRICK: Well, what is the value of the assets
and cash that are in this entity that she has to play with;
that's my question.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. Just the company, the account itself.
Q. Okay. You can't give me a dollar figure, right?
A. Give you a dollar?
Q. Figure. A dollar amount. Do you understand me okay?
A. I understand. It's just the company bank account. Just
this account. Just like you open account, then you have that
account.
Q. Sure. But you won't tell me the dollar amount, but the
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
account——
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
THE COURT: So don't testify. Only ask questions.
MR. SCHIRICK: Sure. Okay. All right. We'll move
on.
Q. Now you were asked some questions by Mr. Fergenson about if
you knew you had H Coin on the Himalaya Exchange. Do you
remember that?
A. I——I cannot hear you, the whole sentence. Can you repeat
again. Just, I——
Q. Yes. So, no problem. So you testified earlier when you
were on direct examination with Mr. Fergenson——
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. ——and he asked you if you knew if your H Coin was ever on
the Himalaya Exchange. Do you remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And you said no, right?
A. Yes. I don't have account.
Q. Okay. And you checked, right?
A. Checked what?
Q. Ma'am, you checked whether your H Coin was on the Himalaya
Exchange is the question I just asked.
MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.
MR. SCHIRICK: She did not answer.
THE COURT: You may answer.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
A. You mean a check?
THE COURT: No. He's asking whether you checked; did
you inquire, did you check.
THE WITNESS: I don't have account. Where I to check?
Q. So the answer is you didn't check, right?
A. I have no place to check. I don't know how to——to——which
one to ask.
Q. Did you call anybody?
A. I asked the volunteer work there, they said they don't
know.
Q. Okay. Did you ever sell any of your H Coin?
A. I don't have H Coin in my hand. How could I sell? I don't
have in my hand. I cannot control it. How could I sell
anything?
Q. Well, that's the question. So the answer would be no.
A. Okay.
THE COURT: All right. So don't tell her what the
answer should be. You ask questions, she gives answers; you
don't testify, and she doesn't ask questions.
MR. SCHIRICK: Sure.
Q. Let's talk about your G/CLUBS membership.
Now did you first learn about G/CLUBS from the G/CLUBS
launch video?
A. I know G Club from Miles Guo's video.
Q. From his——now do you recall launching——excuse me.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
Withdrawn.
Do you recall watching the launch video for G/CLUBS?
A. Miles Guo smoking, that one?
Q. Do you know what I mean by launch video?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. What do you think I mean?
A. I just remember he's just smoking in that video. That one?
MR. SCHIRICK: Move to strike as nonresponsive.
THE COURT: No. She's asking you are you referring to
a video in which Mr. Guo is smoking.
MR. SCHIRICK: Why don't we make this easy and pull up
the video. GX C148-V1. And let's please go to time stamp
3:28. And we'll just play it for a few seconds.
MR. FERGENSON: I think, your Honor, Mr. Schirick may
be pulling up GX C9. I may have misheard, but I think that's
the exhibit.
THE COURT: Well, you can confer with him.
(Counsel conferring)
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, may we approach?
THE COURT: Sure.
(Continued on next page)
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2487
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
(At the sidebar)
MR. SCHIRICK: So, your Honor, we just want to note
for the record that the 3500 material shows that the witness
met with the government on at least one occasion, perhaps more,
with an interpreter, and that she continues to seem to have
trouble in understanding questions, asking questions directly.
So we'd like to ask for an interpreter.
MR. FERGENSON: I've never used an interpreter with
her. I had a standby interpreter on the calls, because we
don't know, when we're first talking to someone, their facility
with English.
THE COURT: So was there ever an agent, whether you or
someone else, who used an interpreter?
MR. FERGENSON: Not that I'm aware of.
THE COURT: She seems to me as being exceptionally
smart and fluent in English. It may be a bit broken, but I
have the sense that she understands every single word that
you're saying. And she's great at the volleys.
MR. SCHIRICK: Well, I have to say I respectfully
disagree. I think we've had to rephrase questions any number
of times to try to get it across. Your Honor struck numerous
answers from her testimony as being nonresponsive. It either
shows that she's not willfully responding to the question or
she doesn't understand.
THE COURT: She's against your client and she wants to
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
let the world know what she thinks. So yeah, she might be
resisting you, but it's not about the language.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, I think, you know——
MS. SHROFF: So I think at one point, your Honor, she
was asked a question about when she had seen a document or
something to that effect and her answer was indicative of she
thought when the document was in fact created as opposed to
when she saw it. We're just suggesting that because the direct
flows more easily because she's prepped, so on the cross, it
seems that she doesn't quite understand either the lingo or the
question. And, look, she can volley all she wants. She's very
funny. I'll give you that.
THE COURT: She is as clever as she can be, and you
can't be clever if you don't understand the question.
MS. SHROFF: Well——
MR. SCHIRICK: Or be clever by pretending not to
understand the question.
THE COURT: That's very possible, but I do not have
the sense she has a language problem. I think she has a
problem with your client and she's letting you know. And
you've got to be deft and you've got to be agile. That's how
it works.
(Continued on next page)
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2489
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
(In open court)
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Okay. So we're going to play you a video and you just let
me know if you recognize it, okay?
A. Okay.
Q. And if you don't——Ms. Wu, if you don't understand a word
that I'm using or a phrase that I'm using, just feel free to
let me know and I'm happy to rephrase, okay?
A. Okay.
(Video played, for witness only)
Q. Okay. Do you recognize that as the launch video for
G/CLUBS?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Okay. Now at the time you were watching Mr. Guo's
broadcasts fairly regularly, right?
A. Too many. I cannot remember every one.
Q. Yeah. I'm sure.
So a time came when you purchased the G/CLUBS
membership, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. Now did you purchase the G Club membership after watching
this video?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Would you have made the purchase if you hadn't watched the
video?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained. If she can't remember, then
how she can answer this follow-up question?
Q. How did you first learn about G/CLUBS?
A. Miles Guo said that.
Q. When?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Do you remember approximately when?
A. On a yacht.
Q. No, in time, ma'am.
A. I don't remember.
Q. Do you think you sent $10,000 to G/CLUBS?
A. Yes.
Q. Withdrawn. How did you learn where to send the $10,000 for
G/CLUBS purchase?
A. How do you learn?
Q. Yeah. How did you know where to send the $10,000 for the
G/CLUBS purchase?
A. GClub.com?
Q. So you went to the website?
A. Yeah, the farm told us to do so.
Q. Okay. And you registered on the website?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And you received a membership number, right?
A. You mean the online number, right?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
Q. A membership number, right.
A. Okay, yes, online, yeah.
Q. And do you recall whether you received that before or after
you watched the G/CLUBS video?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Okay. Now you testified that G/CLUBS didn't give you any
benefits, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You did have a potential discount on G Fashion, right?
A. Yes.
Q. But you didn't like their stuff.
A. Yes.
Q. Now did you ever ask or inquire of G/CLUBS whether they
were adding additional benefits?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Tell me about that.
A. I wrote email to them.
Q. Did you produce that email to the government?
A. No. I deleted it, because one time my computer, some
problem. I don't know what happened. Some——something just,
gone.
Q. Sure. It got deleted.
A. Yeah.
Q. Did you ever——besides the email that you just referenced,
did you ever inquire in any other way about whether they were
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
adding additional benefits?
A. I talked with members of the farm about this.
Q. Okay. But my question was: Did you talk to anyone at
G/CLUBS, or attempt to get in touch with anyone at G/CLUBS?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Now wasn't one of the benefits of G/CLUBS the G
Talks sweepstakes?
A. The benefits not that useful.
Q. Didn't you enter the G Talks sweepstakes?
A. Once.
Q. Only once?
A. Yeah.
Because somebody told me something——
Q. Sure. There's no question pending.
A. Okay.
MR. SCHIRICK: All right. Now if we could just please
pull up GX C148-TX, which is also in evidence.
And if we can go to page 5, please.
Q. Can you see that displayed, that document displayed on the
screen in front of you?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Now I'm going to read there. You let me know if I
get it correct, okay? And this comes from the G/CLUBS launch
video.
Under the reviewed——
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
MR. FERGENSON: He's testifying. He just said this is
the G/CLUBS launch video. She never said that.
THE COURT: So the witness has not stated that she
remembers the G Club launch video.
MR. SCHIRICK: And I'm only showing this to her and
reading it to her to see if it refreshes her recollection.
THE COURT: So let's step up, please.
(Continued on next page)
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
(At the sidebar)
THE COURT: So she doesn't recall whether she saw the
launch video. If you want to refresh her recollection, first
you would say, is there something that might refresh your
recollection, then you would show that to her, but you can't
read from it; you'd ask her to read from it and ask, does this
refresh your recollection.
MR. SCHIRICK: This document is in evidence, your
Honor.
THE COURT: Absolutely, but when you're refreshing
somebody's recollection, you can't read from the document. You
have to first show the person the document and ask them, does
it refresh your recollection.
MR. FERGENSON: And I would just——my objection was
just him stating this is from the launch video when she's never
testified to that. She doesn't remember watching the video.
MR. SCHIRICK: Mr. Fergenson is stating——
THE COURT: The launch video is in evidence. And so
you're trying to get at whether or not she saw it and whether
she heard these warnings. That's what you're trying to get at,
right?
MR. SCHIRICK: Sure.
THE COURT: So first you've got to establish that she
has some recollection of seeing the video. She said she
doesn't recollect. So maybe you can jog her memory. And the
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
way that you jog the memory is by showing her something,
whatever that thing might be, just showing it to her alone and
asking her.
MR. SCHIRICK: Happy to do that. Happy to do that.
THE COURT: You could, for example, show her the video
without the sound, and ask her does she recollect seeing that.
MR. SCHIRICK: And that's what that video actually
was, your Honor, was the beginning of it, beginning of the
launch video.
THE COURT: That was a document that we're reading
from and what I'm suggesting is not right.
MR. SCHIRICK: I was referring to the previous
exhibit, your Honor, that had the Mandarin on the one side and
the English on the other, and the audio recording. That's
actually the launch video. But I'm happy to take the Court's
point. I'm happy to refresh her recollection.
THE COURT: Okay.
(Continued on next page)
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
(In open court)
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Now, Ms. Wu, you testified earlier, correct, that you don't
recall whether you watched the G/CLUBS launch video?
A. I don't remember. I don't remember.
Q. Okay. Would it help if I showed you the document, help
refresh your memory?
A. No.
Q. So nothing I can show you would help refresh your memory;
you know that for sure without ever having seen it?
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Is there something that might refresh your
recollection? That's the question.
THE WITNESS: For that video, no.
THE COURT: Move on.
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Do you have any problems with your memory, ma'am?
A. I don't think so.
Q. Okay. Now you were asked some questions by Mr. Fergenson
about Miles Guo being targeted by the CCP. Do you remember
that?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And you said you don't think that the projects that
Miles Guo worked on had anything to do with the CCP. Do you
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
remember that?
A. Yes.
MR. SCHIRICK: Okay. Can we pull up DX Stip 1.
Q. Now I'm going to read you this document, and you let me
know if it changes your mind——
A. Okay.
Q. ——about the question you just answered.
"It is hereby stipulated and agreed by the United
States of America and Miles Guo, the defendant, through their
attorneys of record that:
"1. The FBI has investigated individuals who, working
at the direction of the government of the People's Republic of
China ('the PRC government') have engaged in an international
campaign, known as 'Operation Fox Hunt,' to coerce individuals
located in the United States and elsewhere to return to China
to face charges brought by the PRC government or to otherwise
reach financial settlements with the PRC government.
"2. In 2017, a U.S. law enforcement agency assessed
that Mr. Miles Guo was the highest priority of China's
repatriation efforts.
"3. In 2017, a U.S. law enforcement agency received
information that Chinese officials were paying and providing
food and signs to protestors of Mr. Guo.
"4. In 2018, a U.S. law enforcement agency received
information that the PRC government had established a special
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Cross
investigative group in China to manage China's investigation
of, and actions against, Mr. Guo."
Now if we could scroll down to the next page.
"5. To carry out some of the objectives of Fox Hunt,
in 2017, the PRC government tasked a specially-designated group
of operatives ('the Group') with discrediting and harassing
individuals including Mr. Guo by using interactive computer
services and electronic communication systems."
Now if we could just scroll down to paragraph 6,
please.
"6. Since Mr. Guo fled the PRC, the PRC government
has sought his return for prosecution in the PRC and has
employed numerous methods to effect Mr. Guo's capture or
arrest. In May 2017, the PRC government sent four undeclared
agents from the PRC's Ministry of State Security ('MSS') to the
United States to attempt to cause Mr. Guo's coerced
repatriation to the PRC as part of the Fox Hunt initiative.
The U.S. government disrupted the PRC government's efforts to
forcefully repatriate Mr. Guo, and Mr. Guo continued to reside
in the United States."
Do you see that, ma'am?
A. Yes. Yes.
Q. Do you still believe that Mr. Guo's projects had nothing to
do with being anti-CCP?
A. Not exactly. I think this shows nothing to prove Miles Guo
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Redirect
anti the CCP. I don't think so.
MR. SCHIRICK: No further questions at this time, your
Honor.
THE COURT: Redirect?
MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.
Ms. Loftus, do you want to pull up DX Stip 1, if you
have it.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. While we're waiting, Ms. Wu, about the stipulation, the
agreement between the parties you were just read, can you
explain to the jury what you mean when you say that doesn't
have anything to do with Miles Guo being anti-CCP?
MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. She just explained it.
THE COURT: I don't know if that was her exact answer.
You could ask her to further explain the answer, but I don't
know, the way you characterize it, if that's correct.
MR. FERGENSON: Understood, your Honor.
Q. Ms. Wu, could you explain your answer to the jury, please.
A. Fox Hunt, this operation, chased many——chased after many
people. Actually, not all people on this list are good people.
I——as far as I know, Fox Hunt operation wanted a lot of people
who colluded with CCP officer or officers to make huge fortune
and then these people escaped abroad with the money, so this
operation included some kind of these people, and as far as I
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Redirect
can searched online——
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may continue.
A. ——I just find that Miles Guo belongs to this category, so
he committed economic crimes in China. I didn't find things
about Miles Guo's political reason in China. So I——I think
that's paragraphs prove nothing that Miles Guo anti-CCP.
Q. And Ms. Wu, you testified that you first learned about
Miles Guo in 2018, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And had you heard of him before that?
A. No.
Q. Had you heard of him being a CCP dissident before that?
A. No.
Q. All right. Ms. Wu, you were asked some questions about
Sara Wei.
A. Yes.
Q. Which farm did Sara Wei lead?
A. At that time Phoenix Farm.
Q. Who picked the farm leaders?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. Who gave the farm leaders instructions?
A. Miles Guo.
MR. FERGENSON: And Ms. Loftus, if we could pull up
GX Z9. Could we go to page 192.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Redirect
Q. Ms. Wu, you were also asked questions about a falling-out
between Miles Guo and Sara Wei. Do you remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. Now just focusing you on the bottom of page 192
here, this date in this chart is February 13th, 2023, and the
image there says Full Text of Miles Guo's Gettr Video.
MR. FERGENSON: If we could scroll down slightly.
And we'll go to the bottom of 193.
Q. If we could, Ms. Wu, I'll just read the two paragraphs
here.
It says, "Don't make excuses for yourself under any
circumstances——"
MR. SCHIRICK: Objection.
THE COURT: Is this document in evidence?
MR. FERGENSON: It is, your Honor.
MR. SCHIRICK: Is there a question?
THE COURT: Perhaps you could ask the question first.
MR. FERGENSON: Yes, your Honor. Is it okay if I ask
Mr. Schirick if she can let me know if I read it correctly.
THE COURT: No. You certainly could whisper in his
ear the anticipated question.
(Counsel conferring)
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Wu, can you read the two paragraphs starting with,
"Don't make excuses."
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Redirect
A. "Don't make excuses for yourself under any circumstances,
whether it comes to earning money, striving for a goal, or
pursuing what you believe in. Don't justify your failures and
greed.
"In particular, Chinese people always like to pass the
buck and blame someone in the family or their life for their
own mistakes. They always make someone else the scapegoat and
say it is this person's fault or that it was not because of him
. . . our Chinese like to point fingers at others. Please,
take responsibility for what you do."
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, objection. There's no
question.
THE COURT: I'm waiting for the question.
Q. Are you familiar with what a scapegoat is?
A. This word, yes.
Q. What is a scapegoat?
A. Just put your fault on others and let others be responsible
for your fault.
MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could go to page 6.
Q. Ms. Wu, you were asked about this entry on the chart. Do
you remember that?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: If we could scroll down.
I'm sorry. Could we scroll up slightly, Ms. Loftus.
Q. And Ms. Wu, in this video, just focusing you on the last
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O6D1GUO3 Wu - Redirect
sentence of that first paragraph.
A. Okay.
Q. Could you read that sentence.
A. This turned out to be a conservative estimate and 17.5
times the valuation.
Q. And what sorts of things did Miles Guo say about the value
of GTV?
MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. He said, I remember 20 billion; maybe he said later was
higher value.
MR. FERGENSON: And Ms. Loftus, if we could go to
page 28.
Q. Ms. Wu, you were also asked about whether you sent your
farm loan money before seeing a Miles Guo video about the
farms. Do you remember being asked about that?
A. I remember he asked about the G/CLUBS video.
Q. Okay. We can do that too.
MR. FERGENSON: If we can scroll down slightly. And
we can keep scrolling down.
Q. Now, Ms. Wu, do you see the date on the chart here is
July 22, 2020?
A. Yes.
Q. Is this before you sent your G/CLUBS money?
A. Yes.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Redirect
Q. And do you see in the screenshot there, it says "You become
a shareholder of G Club immediately"?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: If we could just pull up quickly
GX V939.
Government Exhibit VN39.
Q. While we're waiting, Ms. Wu, you were asked questions about
the H Coin quota formula. Do you remember being asked about
that?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you explain how the volunteer work——well, withdrawn.
Was the volunteer work the only thing that went into
the formula, or just one thing?
MR. SCHIRICK: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Can you explain how the volunteer work factored into the
formula generally.
A. I don't know. They just——they did this. I don't think
they had any rules for this. They just, like, if they like you
and then give you more, if you——if they——just like according to
their own feeling. I don't know. I don't know there are any
rules for that.
MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. Speculation, as to what
other people thought or did.
THE COURT: She said she doesn't know if there are any
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Redirect
rules. The answer stands.
Q. And Ms. Wu, now that we have the loan agreement up, do you
remember being asked questions about, you know, paragraph 1(d)
here about the maturity date? Do you remember those questions?
A. Yes.
MR. FERGENSON: If we could scroll down to the
signature page.
Q. Ms. Wu, at the time you sent your money, did you even have
a countersigned contract?
A. No.
Q. How long after you sent your money and you signed the
contract did you get a signed copy back?
A. Just this, 2021, November 2nd.
Q. And did you get an addendum on that same date?
A. I cannot remember. Maybe together. I don't remember.
Q. Ms. Wu, you were also asked questions about your family in
China. Do you remember being asked questions like that?
A. Can you make it clearer.
Q. On cross-examination you were asked questions about whether
you had family in China. Do you remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were asked questions about whether you visited
China. Do you remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you testifying today because the CCP forced you to?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Recross
A. No. You mean CCP force me to sit here to answer your
question? No.
Q. Are you a CCP spy?
A. No.
MR. FERGENSON: No further questions.
THE COURT: Recross?
RECROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Ms. Wu, you were just shown a video from July 22nd of 2020,
right?
A. Yes, just now.
Q. Okay. Sure. And Mr. Fergenson asked you whether you
recalled if you had seen that before you purchased your G/CLUBS
membership, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And I showed you a video about the G/CLUBS launch,
right?
A. You showed me the video? No.
Q. You don't recall me showing you a video?
A. Just about the text, not a video.
Q. It was a video that had text, right?
A. Okay, yeah.
Q. Okay. And so you remember that I showed that to you
earlier.
A. Yes.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Recross
Q. Okay. And you couldn't remember whether the video I showed
you was before or after your G/CLUBS purchase, right? That was
your testimony.
A. You didn't say the date, right? I remember after that——
Q. Would it help if I showed it to you to refresh your memory?
A. Okay.
MR. SCHIRICK: So if you pull up GX 148-TX, please.
This is a document that's in evidence and it's dated
October 13, 2020.
And go to page 5, please.
Q. And let me know if I get this right. Okay?
"Under the revised launch plan for G/CLUBS, however,
members will not receive special access to future offerings of
stock, will NOT receive GTV stock, and will NOT receive loans
to purchase memberships. This is serious business, brothers
and sisters. Even if you have bought G Club, it absolutely
will not come with the stocks; it does not mean that you can
buy stocks of G Fashion and GTV; and, it does not mean that you
will be able to receive loans in the future. No! No! No!
I'll repeat, this is a very serious topic. No! No! There is
no GTV's stock. And there is no G Fashion's stock. When I
hear all this, I got chills. There is none of that."
Does that refresh your recollection?
A. No. And I asked the date for this. The date.
Q. As I said before, it's October 13th. It's three days
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Recross
before you purchased your G/CLUBS membership, right?
MR. FERGENSON: I mean, he can't do that, your Honor.
THE COURT: She asked for the date.
MR. SCHIRICK: It's a fact in evidence.
THE COURT: October 13th what year?
MR. SCHIRICK: 2020. It's a fact in evidence, by
stipulation of the parties.
THE COURT: Are you asking whether or not October 13th
comes two days before October 15th? Is that the question?
MR. SCHIRICK: Yes. And it's the 16th.
THE COURT: Whether October——
MR. SCHIRICK: 16th comes three days after
October 13th, the date of this video.
THE COURT: It's a compound question. So let's take
it in pieces.
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Okay. You purchased your G/CLUBS membership on
October 16th, right, you testified before?
A. I said October. I don't remember the date.
Q. If I were to show you a document, would it refresh your
recollection?
A. If you have the document, yes. Yes.
MR. SCHIRICK: Okay. Not for the jury yet, just for
the witness and the parties.
Q. Ma'am, do you recognize this document?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Recross
A. Yes.
Q. And what is it?
A. My wire transfer statement.
Q. And in fact, this is a statement that you sent to the
government lawyers, right?
A. Yes.
MR. SCHIRICK: Your Honor, we offer this into
evidence.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. FERGENSON: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted. Do you have an identifier
for this?
MR. SCHIRICK: Yes. DX 7002, your Honor. I'm sorry.
3.
(Defendant's Exhibit 7003 received in evidence)
MR. SCHIRICK: May we publish it to the jury, your
Honor.
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. SCHIRICK: Can we please zoom in on the date under
the words Wire Transfer Information.
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Can you see the document, Ms. Wu?
A. Yes.
Q. And does this refresh your recollection that you purchased
your G Club membership by sending $10,000 on October 16, 2020?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Recross
A. I still cannot remember, but the paper like this, okay,
that is the time.
Q. Okay. But you don't have any reason to believe that this
document, which you gave to the government, is incorrect, do
you?
A. This is right. This is right.
Q. It's right.
A. Yeah.
MR. SCHIRICK: Okay. Now if we go back to the
previous exhibit, GX C148-TX. Actually, I take that back. Can
we go to GX Z9.
And if we can please go to the October 13, 2020,
entry.
Q. Now do you see the document that's displayed on your
screen?
A. Yes.
Q. And you see that the date column is October 13, 2020?
A. Yes.
MR. SCHIRICK: Okay. And now if we can scroll down.
Keep going. Keep going, please.
Keep going. We're looking for——here. There we go.
Q. Now do you see here with the sentence beginning, "Under the
reviewed launch plan for G/CLUBS, however, members will not
thereby have opportunity to subscribe for or purchase any
shares to be issued in the future and will NOT receive GTV club
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Recross
stock"? Do you see that?
MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, this is the third time
we're reading the same text in the examination. Just trying to
speed things along.
MR. SCHIRICK: Just trying to link it up.
THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead.
Q. Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was, as the chart tells you——the chart is in
evidence——that that is from October 13th, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that's three days before you purchased your G/CLUBS
membership, right?
A. I heard his previous or previous——or previous videos.
Q. My question is, this is three days before you purchased
your G Club membership, right?
A. Yes, this is correct.
Q. Okay. Thank you.
Now you also——you testified a moment ago that you
don't believe that Mr. Guo is truly anti-CCP, right?
A. No, he's not.
Q. Okay. Well, if we can pull up one more time DX Stip 1.
Paragraph 5.
And I'm going to start reading about halfway through
this paragraph, a little bit more than halfway through,
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Wu - Redirect
beginning with the words "In or about December 2018."
"In or about December 2018, officers of the Group were
directed to post three videos or posts daily with YouTube and
Facebook accounts, with one of the posts required to be
anti-Mr. Guo. On February 3, 2020, a PRC government official
issued a tasking requirement that every member of the Group
shall write an original article with content related to
targeting Mr. Guo, the COVID pandemic, or Hong Kong. The FBI
investigated the Group's activities, including its activities
aimed at Mr. Guo, and the U.S. government has charged many of
the group's members with violations of U.S. law."
Can you tell me why the PRC government would be
targeting——
MR. FERGENSON: Objection.
Q. ——Mr. Guo in this way if he's not anti-CCP?
THE COURT: Sustained. She cannot speak for the
Chinese government.
Q. Does this change your opinion as to whether Mr. Guo is
anti-CCP?
A. No.
Q. Even if the CCP is after him, it doesn't change your
opinion at all?
THE COURT: Asked and answered.
MR. SCHIRICK: No further questions, your Honor.
THE COURT: Any redirect?
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2513
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Espinoza - Direct
MR. FERGENSON: Very briefly.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FERGENSON:
Q. Ms. Wu, when you sent money to G/CLUBS, what did you expect
to receive?
A. GTV stock.
MR. SCHIRICK: Beyond the scope.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
Q. Did you expect G/CLUBS money to be used to buy a mansion?
MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. Beyond the scope.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
Q. Did you expect G/CLUBS money would be used to buy a
mansion?
MR. SCHIRICK: Same objection.
A. No.
MR. SCHIRICK: No further questions.
THE COURT: Any re-recross?
MR. SCHIRICK: No, your Honor.
THE WITNESS: Good.
THE COURT: You may step out.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(Witness excused)
THE COURT: And the government may call its next
witness.
MR. FINKEL: The government calls Kimberly Espinoza.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Espinoza - Direct
THE LAW CLERK: Would you raise your right hand,
please.
(Witness sworn)
THE LAW CLERK: Thank you.
THE COURT: Please state your name and spell it.
THE WITNESS: Kimberly Espinoza. K-I-M-B-E-R-L-Y,
E-S-P-I-N-O-Z-A.
THE COURT: You may inquire.
MR. FINKEL: Thank you, your Honor. Just one moment,
please.
KIMBERLY ESPINOZA,
called as a witness by the Government,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Ms. Espinoza, can you please remind the members of the jury
where you work and what your title is.
A. I work at the FBI and my title is a forensic accountant.
THE COURT: One moment, please.
You may continue.
MR. FINKEL: Thank you, your Honor.
Q. Ms. Espinoza, you've testified at this trial previously; is
that correct?
A. Yes, that's correct.
Q. And after you testified last time you testified at this
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Espinoza - Direct
trial, were you contacted by the case team again?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. And what, if anything, did the case ask you to do?
A. To review new financial information, and testify again.
Q. And did you review that new financial information?
A. Yes, I did.
MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, at this time, pursuant to
GX Stip 14, the government offers GX VNB1-3, GX IDB1, 3, 4, 7,
GX SIG1, GX SIL4, GX SIL3, GX SIL40.
THE COURT: The stipulation is already in evidence?
MR. FINKEL: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. SCHIRICK: No objection.
THE COURT: They are admitted.
(Government's Exhibits VNB1-3, IDB1, IDB3, IDB4, IDB7,
SIG1, SIL4, SIL3, SIL40 received in evidence)
MR. FINKEL: Pursuant to Stip 8, the government offers
BR451 and BR452.
MR. SCHIRICK: No objection.
THE COURT: They're admitted.
(Government's Exhibit BR451 and BR452 received in
evidence)
MR. FINKEL: And the government also offers GX CAP623
and GX CAP624.
MR. SCHIRICK: No objection.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Espinoza - Direct
THE COURT: They're admitted.
(Government's Exhibits CAP623 and CAP624 received in
evidence)
MR. FINKEL: Thank you, your Honor.
Ms. Loftus, if we could please display for the witness
what's been marked for identification as GX Z12. And if you
can just flip through that so Ms. Espinoza can take a look at
it.
We can go back to page 1.
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Ms. Espinoza, do you recognize this document?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. What is it?
A. It's an analysis of financial statements that was——that I
assisted with.
Q. And did you review this analysis?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did you check it for accuracy based on the underlying
exhibits?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Is it accurate?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. And are those underlying exhibits voluminous records?
A. Yes, they are.
Q. And what kind of records are the underlying exhibits?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Espinoza - Direct
A. Bank accounts, like bank statements, checks, deposits,
withdrawals, and also some documentation relating to a
property.
MR. FINKEL: The government offers Z12.
MR. SCHIRICK: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit Z12 received in evidence)
MR. FINKEL: If we could publish it, please.
Q. Ms. Espinoza, at a high level, what was the money flow, if
any, that you analyzed in this chart?
A. It was money that was transferred from Crane Advisory Group
LLC to Lawall & Mitchell, LLC, and then the ongoing of funds
from there.
THE COURT: I didn't catch where you said it was
transferred.
THE WITNESS: Lawall & Mitchell.
Q. Do you know what Crane Advisory Group is?
A. I do not.
Q. Do you know who Haitham Khaled is?
A. I do not.
Q. Okay. This is the first——we're looking at the first slide
of Z12, Ms. Espinoza. And at the top left, it says Capital One
887 and 890. What do those numbers refer to?
A. Those are the last four digits of two bank accounts.
Q. Bank accounts in the name of what entity?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Espinoza - Direct
A. Crane Advisory Group, LLC.
MR. FINKEL: If we could go to the next slide, please.
Q. And what are we looking at here on slide 2?
A. These are the signature cards for those two Crane Advisory
Group LLC bank accounts.
Q. What's the signature card?
A. It's a card provided by the bank listing all the account
information and then who's the authorized user or signer of the
account.
Q. What's the business name at the top of each of these
accounts, the 887 and 890 accounts?
A. It's Crane Advisory Group, LLC.
Q. And what is the signature at the bottom of these signature
cards?
A. Haitham Khaled.
MR. FINKEL: We can go to the next slide, please,
Ms. Loftus.
Q. And what does this slide represent, Ms. Espinoza?
A. There were additional Crane Advisory Group LLC bank
accounts that were not at Capital One, so these are——there were
seven accounts at three other banks.
Q. And they were all in the name of Crane Advisory Group?
A. Yes, they were.
MR. FINKEL: Could we go to the next slide, please.
Q. And what are we looking at here?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6D1GUO3 Espinoza - Direct
A. These are three signature cards for those bank accounts I
just referred to, so they're for IDB Bank and for Signature
Bank.
Q. And these accounts are in the name of what entities?
A. Crane Advisory Group, LLC.
Q. And what is the contact information on these three
documents on the screen, or the name of the individual?
A. The name of the signer?
Q. Yes, please. Thank you.
A. Is Haitham Khaled.
MR. FINKEL: Okay. We can go to the next slide,
please, Ms. Loftus.
Q. What is Lawall & Mitchell?
A. I'm not sure.
Q. Did you look at bank account information for Lawall &
Mitchell?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And is that at Valley National Bank?
A. Yes, it is.
MR. FINKEL: Could we go to the next slide, please,
Ms. Loftus.
Q. And can you explain to the members of the jury,
Ms. Espinoza, what this slide represents, slide 6.
A. At the bottom is just like an example of one of the
statements, so it just shows it said Valley National Bank, it
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says Lawall & Mitchell, LLC, the address is also listed there,
and the——the last four digits of the account, which is 1500.
Q. Okay. Do you know who Aaron Mitchell is?
A. I do not.
MR. FINKEL: Ms. Loftus, if you could bring up GX 128,
please, which is in evidence.
Q. Do you know who this individual is?
A. I do not.
MR. FINKEL: Ms. Loftus, if we could go back to Z12 at
page 6, please.
Q. And on the left side of——excuse me. On the left of this
slide, Ms. Espinoza, it says balance as of September 26th.
What is the balance as of September 26, 2021?
A. $73,672.
MR. FINKEL: And if we could go to the next slide,
please, Ms. Loftus.
Q. And so are these the three——excuse me——the groups of
accounts that you were analyzing, at least initially?
A. Yes, that's correct.
MR. FINKEL: Let's go to the next slide, please,
Ms. Loftus.
Q. So we're on slide 8 now, Ms. Espinoza, and what does slide
8 depict? Can you describe it please to the members of the
jury.
A. So the two Crane Advisory Group, LLC Capital One accounts
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ending in 0887 and 0890 transferred a total of $37,006,848 on
September 29, 2021, to Lawall & Mitchell LLC's bank account at
Valley National Bank.
Q. Do you know why those two Crane accounts transferred
$37 million and change on September 29, 2021?
A. I do not.
MR. FINKEL: If we can go to the next page, please,
Ms. Loftus.
Q. What does this page represent, slide 9?
A. The total there at the bottom is the 37,006,848 that I just
said from the previous slide, so this is three separate
transfers which add up to that total.
Q. And why is there an asterisk on the first transfer, the
date of the first transfer?
A. Because the wire went through on September 29, 2021, but on
the Capital One statement, the date of the transaction was
listed as September 10, 2021.
Q. Do you know the reason for that delay?
A. I do not.
MR. FINKEL: If we can go to slide 10, please,
Ms. Loftus.
Q. Ms. Espinoza, can you describe what slide 10 represents.
A. So for the other seven bank accounts at the other three
banks of Crane——for Crane Advisory Group, LLC bank accounts,
$9,542,511 was transferred to Lawall & Mitchell at Valley
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National Bank between September 27, 2021, and October 27, 2021.
Q. And prior to these transfers can you remind the jury
approximately how much money was in the Lawall & Mitchell
account.
A. It was about 73,000.
MR. FINKEL: If we can go to slide 11, please,
Ms. Loftus.
Q. And what does this slide represent?
A. The total at the bottom is the 9,542,511 from the prior
slide, so this is just showing each individual transfer which
makes up that amount.
Q. And so there were some transfers of less than $10; is that
correct?
A. Yes, that's correct.
Q. That's what the records show?
A. Yes.
MR. FINKEL: If we could go to slide 12, please.
Q. And so Ms. Espinoza, turning to slide 12, what was the
total amount transferred by these nine Crane Advisory Group
bank accounts into Lawall & Mitchell?
A. $46,549,359.
Q. Did you follow the money flow from the Lawall & Mitchell
account further?
A. Yes, I did.
MR. FINKEL: Go to slide 13, please, Ms. Loftus.
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Q. And can you tell the jury what we're looking at in slide
13.
A. On November 8, 2021, Lawall & Mitchell, that same account
that we've been discussing at Valley National Bank, transferred
$46,549,275 to an account at Silvergate Bank called Hamilton
Opportunity Fund SPC.
Q. What is Hamilton Opportunity Fund SPC?
A. I do not know.
MR. FINKEL: If we can go to slide 14, please.
Q. And by the way, Ms. Espinoza, aside from your testimony
today on this chart and your testimony I guess a week or so ago
on that chart, did you have any other involvement in this case?
A. I did not.
Q. Ms. Espinoza, can you explain to the members of the jury
what we're looking at on slide 14.
A. This is a signature card for the Silvergate Bank account.
They referred to it as a master agreement. So it says the two
people who are authorized to use the account are Kin Ming Je
and David Fallon.
Q. And Kin Ming Je is on the left side?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know who that individual is?
A. I do not.
MR. FINKEL: Ms. Loftus, can we please pull up
Government Exhibit 103.
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MR. SCHIRICK: Objection. Is there a question?
MR. FINKEL: I'm just waiting for the document to
load.
Q. My question is, Ms. Espinoza: Do you know who this
individual is depicted in Government Exhibit 103?
A. I do not.
Q. Do you know if this is Kin Ming Je?
A. I do not.
MR. FINKEL: Can we go back please to Government
Exhibit Z12 at slide 14.
Q. And what was the balance prior to these transfers,
approximately?
A. 29 million.
MR. FINKEL: Go to slide 15, please, Ms. Loftus.
Q. What happened to the 46½ million and change that was
transferred from Lawall & Mitchell into the Hamilton
Opportunity Fund, 7739 account? What happened to it after
that?
A. On December 2, 2021, the same amount, so 46,549,275, was
transferred to another Hamilton Opportunity Fund account at
Silvergate Bank. The account's last four digits are 7713.
Q. And was there any information in these wire transfers
that's not reflected on the chart about the reason for these
transfers?
A. On the bank statement, there was——it did say investor
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incorrect account, or something to that effect.
Q. And do you know who put that information into the wire
transfer?
A. I do not.
(Continued on next page)
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BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Do you know why that information was included?
A. It could have been the bank. It could have been the
sender, but I don't know why.
Q. Can we go to slide 16, please, Ms. Loftus, the next slide.
Ms. Espinoza, what are we looking at here?
A. This is a mass agreement or signature card for Silvergate
Bank at 7713, and it's the same authorized users which are Kin
Ming Je and David Fallon.
Q. Kin Ming Je and David Fallon are the authorized users for
both of these Hamilton Opportunity Fund accounts; is that
correct?
A. Yes, that's correct.
Q. What was the balance in this Hamilton Opportunity Fund 7713
account prior to the $46.5 million transfer?
A. $4,779,188.
Q. Ms. Espinoza, did you also track the money flow after this
46.5 million went from Crane Advisory Group to Lawall &
Mitchell to Hamilton Opportunity Fund to a second Hamilton
Opportunity Fund, did you find out what happened to it after
that?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Go to the next slide, please, Ms. Loftus.
What happened on December 8, 2021?
A. $2 million payment was made to McDonnell Whitaker attorney
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trust.
Q. If we can go to the next slide, please.
Ms. Espinoza, what happened on December 16, 2021?
A. $24,500,000, a payment was made to Insight Title Services,
LLC trust.
Q. And that payment was made from which account?
A. The Hamilton Opportunity Fund 7713 account.
Q. If we can go to the next slide, please.
What does this slide depict?
A. An additional 13 million was sent to Buck Esquire, LLC
attorney trust account between December 1, 2021 and March 2,
2022.
Q. So in total approximately how much money was transferred
from, bringing the money flow all the way down, but ultimately
from this Hamilton Opportunity Fund 7713 between December 8 and
March 2, 2022?
A. $39,500,000.
Q. Ms. Espinoza, did you also review documents from Insight
Title Services, LLC trust?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Documents pertaining to this $24.5 million?
A. Well, documents related to a property which is
approximately that amount, yes.
Q. Can we go to the next slide, please. Is this one of the
documents that you reviewed?
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A. Yes, it is.
Q. It says at the top settlement statement HUD-1; is that
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know what an HUD-1 statement is?
A. In looking at the statement, it just for like a property
purchase, so it list the borrower, the seller, the purchase
price, and borrower and seller transactions.
Q. And if we can zoom in on the G box on the left side at the
top. Are you able to read that, Ms. Espinoza?
A. Yes. Property Location, 675 Ramapo Valley Road, Mahwah,
New Jersey 07430. Would you like the rest?
Q. No. That's okay. Can you zoom out of that, please.
Can you zoom into the box above it where it says name
and address of borrower.
According to this document, Ms. Espinoza, what is the
name of the borrower?
A. Taurus Fund, LLC.
Q. Do you know what that is?
A. I do not.
Q. Ms. Loftus, can you zoom in on row 101 where it says
contract sales price.
What is the contract sales price of this home?
A. $26 million.
Q. And if we can zoom in, please, on row 201.
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What is it say for the deposit or earnest money?
A. $2 million.
Q. Ms. Loftus, you can go back to slide 19.
How much was the transfer on December 8, 2021, to
McDonnell Whitaker attorney trust?
A. $2 million dollars.
Q. Go back to slide 20, the next slide, please, Ms. Loftus.
If we can go to the next slide.
Are these additional documents from Insight Title
Services?
A. Yes.
Q. If you can zoom in, Ms. Loftus, on the first row on the
left. Go all the way over to the right.
Can you read across this row, please, the first row,
Ms. Espinoza?
A. On December 17, 2021, Taurus Fund LLC, HUD line 303, cash
from borrower, and it's a deposit amount of $24,344,844.44.
Q. Zoom out of that. The bottom of the document it says
$155,155.56. Can you explain the document on the right?
A. The document on the right is a wire transfer for that same
amount. It's made from Insight Title to Buck Esquire, LLC, and
there's a note at the bottom which says overfund.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if you can zoom in on the last row of the last
document, the second to last row.
Can you read the last, next to December 17, 2021,
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beginning with Crocker?
A. Crocker Mansion Estate, LLC, a New Jersey Limited Liability
Company, HUD line 603, cash to seller, $10,852,425.02.
Q. Have you ever been to 675 Ramapo, Valley Road?
A. I have not.
Q. You ever been to the Crocker mansion?
A. No.
MR. FINKEL: Thank you, Ms. Espinoza. Nothing
further.
THE COURT: Cross examination.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SCHIRICK:
Q. Thank you, your Honor. Just briefly. Good to see you
again, Ms. Espinoza. As we covered last time, you testified
the government's lawyers asked you for the first time to
testify in this case about three weeks ago, right, maybe a
little more?
A. Maybe three to four weeks ago.
Q. And again, you didn't know anything about this case before
the prosecutor asked you to testify?
A. I did not.
Q. And again as we covered, you weren't part of the FBI's
investigative team on this matter?
A. Correct.
Q. And you're not part of the prosecution team?
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A. Correct.
Q. And, in fact, as you testified on direct, you haven't
really had any involvement in this case aside from your
testimony and then your prep for that testimony, right?
A. Yes, that's correct.
Q. Now, just turning to the chart briefly, can you just tell
me who created the first draft of the chart?
A. I believe it was a forensic accountant, not myself, another
forensic accountant at the FBI.
Q. And approximately when was that?
A. It was maybe two weeks ago.
Q. And after that first draft, you and the government lawyers
talked about the chart?
A. I think I may have received it at like maybe version three
or four, so I wasn't involved in the initial conversations.
Q. In the earlier version. And after you received it in
version three or four, how many additional versions were there
after that?
A. I believe this is version five, five or six, but I believe
it's five.
Q. Fair enough. Let's just take a quick look at the chart.
If we could pull it up, please, Government Exhibit C-12. I'm
just going to ask you a couple of questions. We can flip
through this quickly. If we could please go to page four, the
title of this slide is Crane Advisory -- I'm sorry. Withdrawn.
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Off to the right-hand side of this page in a box
that's outlined in green it says Crane Advisory seven accounts
at three banks, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And this slide displays two signature cards at IDB Bank,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. And then one signature card from Signature Bank?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there a third bank involved here?
A. Yes, there was.
Q. And was that bank Morgan Stanley?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. And how many accounts did Crane have at Morgan Stanley if
you recall?
A. Four accounts.
Q. And there aren't any signature cards from those accounts at
Morgan Stanley displayed here, right?
A. Correct.
Q. If we could please go to page eight.
Now I believe you were asked this on direct, but you
don't know what Lawall & Mitchell is, right?
A. I do not.
Q. Do you know why it's receiving funds?
A. I do not.
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Q. So you don't know, for example, if Lawall & Mitchell is one
of G/Club's attorneys, right?
A. I do not know.
Q. If we could go to slide 13, please.
Now, this slide shows Lawall & Mitchell sending money
to Hamilton Opportunity Fund SPC, right?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. And you testified that you don't know what kind of fund
Hamilton is, right?
A. I do not know what type of fund it is, no.
Q. You don't know in whose name these funds are listed at
Hamilton, right?
A. I believe we have signature cards on the next slide for
them and the names that are listed.
Q. So let me just rephrase that because the question may have
been unclear. Within Hamilton, the entity, you don't know what
account within Hamilton the funds are held, right, as opposed
to the bank?
A. Yeah, I only know the bank account information.
Q. Right. Yes. Thank you. That was the distinction I was
trying to draw. Thank you. And if we could go to page 15,
please.
This slide shows an internal transfer within signature
bank, right, between one account for Hamilton to another
account for Hamilton?
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A. Yes, it's a transfer between the two accounts.
Q. Right. So this isn't actually money leaving Silvergate
Bank, right, in the last arrow between the two bottom boxes?
A. The last transfer is between Silvergate Bank to a
Silvergate Bank account.
Q. It's fair to call that an internal transfer, to not leaving
the bank?
A. Yes, that's fair.
Q. And this happens on December 2, 2021, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you don't know why, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And you don't know, for example, the funds were initially
directed to the wrong account?
A. I'm sorry. Could you repeat that.
Q. You don't know if, for example, the funds were initially
directed to the wrong account?
A. I do not know that.
Q. If we could please turn to slide 20. And you testified on
direct a moment ago that this is a HUD-1 form, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Is this form a standard government form in the purchase and
sale of real estate to your knowledge?
A. I'm not sure whether it's a standard form or not.
Q. Let's zoom in on the upper left. I believe it's D. This
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is a little bit of an eye test here, but I think it's the first
box on the upper left. And it says Taurus Fund LLC. You see
that?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you have experience with real estate transactions as
part of your work as a forensic accountant for the FBI?
A. I do.
Q. And it's common, isn't it, in the purchase of higher-end
real estate for the buyer to create an LLC to hold title?
A. I don't know if it's common or not.
Q. If we could zoom in on what is to the right of that E, and
it's a little blurry, can you see there that the name of the
seller appears to be Crocker Mansion Estate, LLC, a New Jersey
Limited Liability company?
A. Yes.
Q. And does that sort of indicate to you that the seller here
too was an LLC?
A. Yes, the seller here is an LLC.
MR. SCHIRICK: No further questions at this time, your
Honor.
THE COURT: Redirect.
MR. FINKEL: Nothing, your Honor. Thank you,
Ms. Espinoza.
THE COURT: You may step.
(Witness excused)
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O6DBGUO4 Wilson- Direct
THE COURT: The government may call its next witness.
MS. MURRAY: Thank you, your Honor. The government
calls Jamie Wilson.
JAMIE WILSON,
called as a witness by the Government,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
THE COURT: Please state your name and spell it.
THE WITNESS: Jamie Wilson, J-A-M-I-E, Wilson is
W-I-L-S-O-N.
THE COURT: You may inquire.
MS. MURRAY: Thank you, your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. MURRAY:
Q. Good afternoon, Ms. Wilson.
A. Good afternoon.
Q. Where are you employed?
A. I'm employed at the Bank of Princeton.
Q. What is your title?
A. I am the BSA officer for the bank.
Q. And what does BSA stand for?
A. BSA stands for the Bank Secrecy Act.
Q. When did you become a BSA officer?
A. Four years ago.
Q. What are your duties and responsibilities as a BSA officer?
A. My duties are to protect the financial institution and our
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financial industry from money laundering, terrorist financing,
tax evasion.
Q. Can you describe for the jury how, if at all, you monitor
for your issues in the course of your BSA duties?
A. Yes. We have different ways of monitoring. We have a
system that alerts us when people's activity goes outside of
what you would consider normal for a personal account or a
business account. We have ways of contacting -- law
enforcement can contact us through 314As. We have 314Bs which
allows us to talk to other financial Constitutions. We have
different monthly and weekly reports where we monitor wires,
monetary instruments, any activity that comes in and out of a
bank we monitor it.
Q. And you mentioned the 314B program, can you explain in a
bit more detail what that entails?
A. So 314B program is -- not all financial institutions are
involved in it, but if you sign up, it allows you to talk to
another bank about customers that you both have the same
customer.
So if I was a customer of financial institution A, and
financial institution B also, I was a customer of that
institution, we could talk about the activity going through our
accounts in reference to money laundering and possible
terrorist financing.
Q. And how, if at all, does the 314B information sharing
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system assist you in doing your BSA monitoring?
A. That helps us put the bigger picture together. So if we're
unsure where activity is coming from or the original source or
it or where it is going to, it allows us the capability of
finding out where that money originated from, if it was coming
into ours or where it was going, and what it was used for if it
goes somewhere else.
Q. Ms. Wilson, are you familiar with the term QualiFile?
A. Yes.
Q. What is QualiFile?
A. QualiFile is a report run on every individual in business
that comes to a bank to open an account. And it's a checks
systems report that every single bank runs, and it allows you
to see if somebody has a charge off at another institution. So
if they went in the negative at another bank, it would show us
that they possibly owe that financial institution funds.
Q. Are you familiar with the phrase OFAC?
A. Yes.
Q. What does that stand for?
A. OFAC is the Office of Foreign Asset Control, and OFAC sends
out multiple different types of lists that some people may be
blocked or sanctioned, and you cannot transact with those
individuals or businesses.
Q. How, if at all, are the OFAC list relevant to your duties
and responsibilities as a BSA officer?
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A. If somebody hits the OFAC list, then we need to call OFAC
which is part of the U.S. treasury, and either deny a
transaction or potentially put it into a separate account and
hold those funds.
Q. Can you describe the average bank of Princeton customer
profile?
A. Yeah. The average bank of Princeton can be anybody from
what I would consider a blue collar customer, so somebody
possibly a mechanic or a military person to real estate agents
or doctors offices.
Q. And how many branches are there of Bank of Princeton?
A. We have 26 branches.
Q. Geographically speaking, where in the U.S. are those
branches located?
A. They're located mostly in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, and
just recently a couple in the outskirts of the New York, not
within a city, but mostly New Jersey and Pennsylvania.
Q. Ms. Wilson, did there come a time when you conducted a BSA
review of an account held in the name of Lamp Capital?
A. Yes.
Q. Approximately when was that?
A. Around September of 2020.
Q. What, if anything, do you recall about that customer?
A. That customer came to us from a board member who met with a
advisor and a financial advisor and a lawyer, and they were
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introduced together to bring money to our financial institution
because they considered us more of a family bank still over the
larger institutions.
Q. Do you recall the name of that advisor who referred the
account?
A. I believe the advisor -- Stephen Lawandy was the lawyer,
and then Haitham Khaled was the advisor who brought the funds
to us.
Q. Who, if anyone, did the advisor say that he was working
with in bringing the account to Bank of Princeton?
MR. BARKAN: Objection, Hearsay.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Do you recall whether there were any other individuals
referenced in Lamp Capital?
A. When Lamp Capital was open, the signer on the account was
another lawyer. Once we researched that name, Daniel
Podhaskie.
Q. Ms. Wilson, when an account is open at Bank of Princeton,
what information, if any, does the bank request of the
potential customer?
A. We request, when it's a business account, we need two forms
of business identification. Usually it's an SS4 which is given
from the IRS that has their EIN number. And a EIN number is
kind of like a person's social security number for a business.
And then the other document would be their certificate of
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formation that's usually filed with the state, and all the IDs
for the signers on the account.
Q. And what, if anything, do you do with that information once
you collect it?
A. We review it to make sure that it is a legitimate document
so that they actually did file with the IRS. They did file
with the different states. We review that the signers match
the business documents that are being opened, and that even the
signers IDs are legitimate.
Q. Did you conduct a BSA review of the Lamp Capital account?
A. Yes.
Q. What, if anything, do you recall about that review?
A. The beneficial owners, which we also do, is the ultimate
owner of the business. We reviewed those documents. The
opening documents, which the signer on the account wasn't the
owner of the business, so that was a bit of a red flag to us.
And they happen to be a lawyer, not the actual signers. And
the signers and owners of the business on the UBO form, which
is the Ultimate Beneficial Ownership form, they were an NRA,
which is a non-resident alien, so not a U.S. citizen. Which
doesn't make it bad, it just makes it a little higher risk for
us as the bank.
Q. I want to discus some of the characteristics of the Lamp
Capital account based on your review. Do you recall the
approximate dollar amount of that account?
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A. Yes. When they opened it, they brought in around 10
million.
Q. How, if at all, did that compare to the dollar amount in
other Bank of Princeton customer accounts that you reviewed?
MR. BARKAN: Objection, relevance.
MS. MURRAY: It goes to the risk rating that
Ms. Wilson was just speaking about.
THE COURT: I'll allow the answer.
A. Without having a loan at the institution, I've never seen
that kind of money brought in to open an account before. It
was higher than our average clientele.
MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, there's a stipulation between
the parties that I believe is in evidence. I'm going to
confirm that. This is Government Exhibit Stip 14. It's a
stipulation regarding bank records. And pursuant to this
stipulation, at this time the government offers Government
Exhibits GX-BOP-16, BOP-7, BOP-1, BOP-2, BOP-3, and BOP-4.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. BARKAN: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: They are admitted.
(Government's Exhibits BOP-16, BOP-7, BOP-1, BOP-2,
BOP-3 and BOP-4 received in evidence)
BY MS. MURRAY:
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could please publish Government Exhibit
BOP-16. Ms. Wilson, Bank of Princeton, is that institution
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insured by any governing body?
A. The FDIC.
Q. Can you explain what the FDIC is?
A. FDIC is the Federal Depository Institution, so they back
our institution financially to cover the funds that are within
our institution, and they also examine our bank to make sure
we're in compliance at least every 18 months.
Q. Ms. Loftus, we now have this up, if you could just flip
through a few of the pages.
Ms. Wilson, generally speaking do you recognize
government exhibit BOP-16?
A. Yes, this is the account agreement, the opening documents.
Q. If we could go to the first page, Ms. Loftus.
For what account?
A. This is for Lamp Capital.
Q. If we could zoom in all the way across the page, the top
portion, please.
Looking at the top right, Ms. Wilson, what is the date
of this account agreement for Lamp Capital?
A. September 10, 2020.
Q. And over on the left a little bit below, what's the name of
the signer?
A. Daniel Podhaskie.
Q. And under that there's the name Lamp Capital again, what is
the text that's listed in the box below Lamp Capital?
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A. The newly established company.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could go to page 10, please.
What is this document, Ms. Wilson?
A. This is the beneficial ownership document that shows that
the ultimate beneficial owners of the business.
Q. Who, if anyone, completes this document?
Who provides the information reflected in this
document?
A. The person opening the account.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could zoom in please on the top portion
through to the first table.
Ms. Wilson, what's the name of the person opening this
account?
A. Daniel Podhaskie.
Q. And in B, the legal entity for this account?
A. Lamp Capital.
Q. Looking at section C, what is the name listed as the
ultimate beneficial owner of Lamp Capital?
A. Qiang Guo.
Q. Can you spell that?
A. Q-I-A-N-G, last name is, G-U-O.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could zoom in. What is the address
associated with Qiang Guo on this document?
A. It's 781 or 761 5th Avenue, New York, New York 10002.
Q. What type of passport does this individual hold according
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to this document?
A. A Hong Kong passport.
Q. Ms. Loftus, can we go to page 15, please.
Ms. Wilson, what type of document is this?
A. This is their limited liability company agreement, so it's
a business document.
Q. Why, if at all, does the Bank of Princeton collect business
documents in the course of account openings?
A. To validate the business itself that it was formed, and
within the businesses usually it tells you what type of
business it is, who the signers of the business are.
Q. What, if anything, do you look for in the course of your
BSA review in collecting corporate documents like this?
A. When we collect corporate documents, we like to see when
they were actually incorporated, who the signers are, what type
of business they are, anyone related to the business, where
they're located, where they actually registered of the
business.
Q. If we could focus on the top portion here, Ms. Loftus.
What is the date based on this limited liability
company agreement that Lamp Capital was created?
A. The 8th day of September 2020.
Q. And what entity is listed as the sole member of that
company?
A. Infinity Treasury Management, Inc.
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Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could just briefly go back to page one,
please.
Ms. Wilson, what was the date that Daniel Podhaskie
applied to open this bank account in the name of Lamp Capital?
A. September 10, 2020.
Q. Ms. Loftus, let's go back to page 19, please, just the
bottom of that corporate document.
Ms. Wilson, who signed the limited liability company
agreement on behalf of Infinity Treasury Management?
A. Daniel Podhaskie.
Q. Ms. Loftus, can we go to page 33 now, please.
What is this, Ms. Wilson?
A. That's the QualiFile report, the check systems report.
Q. Can you describe what information is reflected on a
QualiFile response?
A. So this is a report that's run on every business or
individual opening an account, and that's run by every single
bank. So when we look at this it's telling us, kind of gives
you a suggestion whether to open or deny the account. And if
somebody had recently opened accounts at other institutions or
had charge offs at other institutions, we would be able to see
it here.
Q. Can we go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus. And if you
could focus in on inquiry details down to the end of details
two.
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If you could just explain a little bit of what
information is on this report, Ms. Wilson?
A. Yeah. So that's where you can see where it says 8/30/2020,
Daniel Podhaskie had also gone to NexBank to inquire and open
an account. So he got through the process of opening the
account with their institution, whether they actually opened it
or not, they probably did if they ran him. And then again you
have Santander bank on 9/15/2020. He also went to that
institution to inquire and open an account.
Q. We can take that down, Ms. Loftus. Thank you.
Were any Lamp Capital accounts opened at Bank of
Princeton?
A. Yes.
Q. Did there come a time when the Lamp Capital signer opened
another account at Bank of Princeton?
A. Yes.
Q. What was the name on that account?
A. Greenwich Land.
Q. Approximately when was that Greenwich Land account opened?
A. That was also September of 2020.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could please publish what's in evidence
as Government Exhibit BOP-7.
Ms. Wilson, what is this document?
A. That's the opening documents, the account agreement.
Q. If we could focus on the top portion all the way across the
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top please, Ms. Loftus.
What is the date of this account opening document?
A. 9/23/2020.
Q. And looking at the right, the account title and the
individual associated with this account?
A. Greenwich Land, LLC and Daniel Podhaskie.
Q. And then looking over on the left under owner/signer
information, what is listed as the occupation for Daniel
Podhaskie?
A. Attorney.
Q. If we could go to page three, please, Ms. Loftus.
Ms. Wilson, again, what is this type of document?
A. That's the Ultimate Beneficial Ownership document.
Q. If we could focus on the top portion, Ms. Loftus.
In the table in item C, Ms. Wilson, who is listed here
as the beneficial owner of the Greenwich Land?
A. Hing Chi Ngok.
Q. All right. Ms. Loftus, if we could go to page eight,
please.
What type of record is this, Ms. Wilson?
A. That's the resolution for the business, and anybody opening
the account are going to have authority over the account signs
this.
Q. Zoom out of that, Ms. Loftus, and go to the next page, the
next page, and the next page. If we could focus on the top
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portion. On what date was this limited liability company
established?
A. This was signed September 22, 2020.
Q. And who signed on behalf of the company?
A. Daniel Podhaskie.
Q. So that's September 22, 2020.
Ms. Loftus, can we go back to page one, please.
What was the date that Daniel Podhaskie applied for
the Greenwich Land bank account at Bank of Princeton?
A. September 23, 2020.
Q. Let's go to page 17, please, Ms. Loftus.
Ms. Wilson, is this the QualiFile response for the
Greenwich Land account?
A. Yes.
Q. And going to the next page, page 18, if we could zoom in on
the text here.
How many inquiries were there that were relevant to
the Greenwich Land bank account?
A. Four.
Q. And can you read the dates and the banks that were
associated with those inquiries?
A. NexBank, Santander Bank, Signature Bank and the Bank of
Princeton.
Q. Can you explain why, if at all, Bank of Princeton would
appear on its own QualiFile response?
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A. They ran his name through QualiFile on 9/16 also, and then
was running it again on 9/23.
Q. Ms. Loftus, can we go to page 23, please.
What is this, Ms. Wilson?
A. That's a new account check list that the branches fill out
for the businesses to make sure that we have everything, as far
as BSA goes and legal wise goes so we have the proper documents
for businesses and individuals.
Q. If we can go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus. Looking
about halfway down the page in bold, there's an, If other
field, if we could zoom in on that.
Ms. Wilson, what information does this form reflect
about the type of business that Greenwich Land was?
A. Capitol management.
Q. All right. Ms. Loftus, we can take that down.
Ms. Wilson, in the course of your duties as a BSA
officer, did you monitor the Lamp Capital and the Greenwich
Land accounts after they were opened?
A. Yes.
Q. What, if anything, did you observe about the activity in
those accounts?
A. The activity coming in both accounts were funded with a
higher than normal amount of money than I've seen at the Bank
of Princeton in my 11 years there. And then the money that
started going out of the accounts were not really in line with
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what we thought a capital management or a real estate business
should, or wasn't in line of what I've seen or would be typical
for that type of business.
Q. What type of activity did you observe that in your opinion
wasn't in line with typical activity?
A. The funds going out, there were two large checks to the
beneficial owners, one from each of the businesses to the
beneficial owners of those businesses. They went to car
dealerships, wineries, a yacht, not in line with just that
business.
MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, pursuant to the stipulation
GX-Stip 14, I also offer Government Exhibit GX-BOP-12 and
GX-BOP-10.
THE COURT: No objection.
MR. BARKAN: No objection your Honor.
THE COURT: They are admitted.
(Government's Exhibits BOP-12 and BOP-10 received in
evidence)
BY MS. MURRAY:
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we can please publish GX-BOP-12.
Ms. Wilson, while we're pulling that up, did you
observe any OFAC hits in the Greenwich Land or the Lamp Capital
accounts?
A. No OFAC matches.
Q. Ms. Wilson, what is this?
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A. That's a bank statement.
Q. Looking at the top, for what account is the bank statement?
A. For Lamp Capital, LLC.
Q. And the statement ending date on the top right?
A. 10/30/020.
Q. If we could focus on the summary of accounts down to the
bottom of the page, please, Ms. Loftus.
Looking at the summary of accounts, Ms. Wilson, what
was the ending balance for this pay period for this Lamp
Capital statement?
A. $4,230,400.
Q. And I want to look at a view of the different transactions
that are reflected here. Under other credits the second entry
there, what is the date of that incoming wire?
A. 10/15/2020.
Q. From a bank account held in the name of what entity?
A. Savio Law, LLC.
Q. And the amount of that incoming wire into the Lamp Capital
account?
A. Five million.
Q. And if we could go to page three please, Ms. Loftus.
Focus in on the content on the top. Looking at the
third item here, Ms. Loftus, what is the date of that outgoing
wire?
A. 10/29/2020.
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Q. Where does it go?
A. Moran Yacht Management, Inc.
Q. What is the dollar amount of that outgoing wire from the
Lamp Capital account?
A. $272,525.
Q. Ms. Loftus, we can take that down, and let's put up
Government Exhibit BOP-10, please.
What is this, Ms. Wilson?
A. It's another bank statement.
Q. For what account?
A. Greenwich Land.
Q. And what is the statement sending date?
A. 10/30/2020.
Q. Again, if we could focus in here on the top portion from
summary of accounts through to the bottom.
What was the ending balance in the Greenwich Land
account on October 30, 2020?
A. Almost 10 million.
Q. And looking at the incoming wires listed here, if we could
just take them one at a time, the three of those incoming
wires, the date, where it came from, and the dollar amount?
A. Yep, 10/15/2020, there's an incoming wire from Savio Law,
LLC for five million.
On 10/21/2020, there's an incoming wire from ACA
Capital Group, LTD for $999,893.22, and on 10/23/2020, another
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incoming wire from ACA Capital Group for almost four million.
Q. And then if we could look at the bottom of this portion
other debits, the second to the last debit reflected there, if
you could read that for, that's October 26?
A. An outgoing wire to Sherry-Lehman, Inc. for 32,220.
Q. Do you know what type of company or business Sherry-Lehman,
Inc. is?
A. I don't remember exactly what their business was.
Q. If we could take that down, Ms. Loftus, and show the
witness what's marked as Government Exhibit BOP-40.
Ms. Wilson, do you recognize this?
A. That's an email.
Q. If we could scroll through the pages, Ms. Loftus.
Have you seen this email before, Ms. Wilson?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you receive this email?
A. Yes.
MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government offers
Government Exhibit BOP-40.
MR. BARKAN: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit BOP-40 received in evidence)
MS. MURRAY: And we can publish that.
Q. Starting at the top, and then we'll kind of work our way
through the chain, Ms. Wilson. What is the date of the top
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portion of this email chain?
A. December 18, 2020.
Q. And this is an email from you to whom?
A. From me to my assistant BSA officer.
Q. What is the subject of the full email chain here?
A. Incoming wires for Greenwich Land.
Q. And there's an attachment to this email, what is the title
of that attachment?
A. Loan agreement ACA verse Greenwich need to sign PDF.
Q. Let's go to page three, Ms. Loftus.
Focusing on the email that begins about a third of the
way down of the page, who is Miriam Colon?
A. She was the branch manager for our New Brunswick office.
Q. What is the date of this outgoing email from Miriam Colon?
A. November 19, 2020.
Q. Who is it sent to?
A. Haitham Khaled and Daniel Podhaskie.
Q. What's the domain name of the email address for Haitham
Khaled?
A. Crane Advisory Group.
Q. Do you know what Crane Advisory Group is?
A. That was the investment advisory firm that he worked for.
Q. And what about the email domain for Daniel Podhaskie?
A. It was Lamp Capital.
Q. So if you could read just the first two lines of this email
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from Miriam Colon, actually the first three lines of the email?
A. Good morning, gentlemen. Hope your day is going well. My
compliance department is conducting a retrospective review of
this payment.
Q. Now there's text that's in black and there's text that's in
red. Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. If we could zoom out, Ms. Loftus, and go up just a few
pages, and look at the bottom of this first page. If we could
zoom in, Ms. Loftus.
Who is this email from?
A. That's from Daniel Podhaskie.
Q. On what date?
A. On December 2, 2020.
Q. Who does he send it to?
A. To Miriam Colon the branch manager and copied Haitham
Khaled.
Q. And the content of this email reads, Hi, Miriam. I have
put the requested information below in red, and the requested
supporting documentation is attached. Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. Let's go back to page three, please, Ms. Loftus. I'd to
zoom in on that email.
Ms. Wilson, what information was Bank of Princeton
requesting from Lamp Capital in item one here?
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A. We were trying to find out ACA Capital Group's business
activities, their contact information, their physical address,
phone number, so who ACA Capital was and more information about
that business.
Q. Why, if at all, were you requesting additional information
about that business?
A. Because they had sent a high amount of funds into the Bank
of Princeton to a new client of ours.
Q. And looking at item two here, the request from Miriam Colon
is, Please provide organization structure chart for ACA Capital
Group Limited, and indicate beneficial owners.
What was the response from Lamp Capital to that
request?
A. They were not in possession of that information.
Q. Looking at item three where the Bank of Princeton request
the industry that Greenwich Land is operating, and additional
identifying details. Can you read the text in red which is the
response from Greenwich Land?
A. Greenwich Land is a real estate holding company
incorporated for the purpose of owning and managing real estate
assets. The physical address is 667 Madison Avenue, 5th floor,
New York, New York 10065. It's a privately owned entity that
is not marketing to the public, and therefore does not current
have a website. The phone number is 917-225-8178. The email
address is DanielP@LampCapital.org. Greenwich Land's beneficial
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owner is Hing Chi Ngok.
Q. And then in item four which request the relationship
between ACA Capital Group and the beneficiary Greenwich Land,
LLC, what is the response from the customer there?
A. ACA is a lender and Greenwich Land is the borrower.
Q. If we can zoom out, Ms. Loftus, and focus on the response
for five into the next page. So detail purpose down through
the end.
Ms. Wilson, Miriam Colon's requests the purpose of the
following payments. On 10/20/2020, a payment in the amount of
$999,913.22. Is that the payment we just looked at that was
reflected in the account statement?
A. Yes.
Q. And the second payment that Miriam colon is requesting
information for, what payment is that?
A. On 10/22/2020 in the amount of $3,999,935. That was another
payment from ACA that we just saw on the statement.
Q. And looking then further down the email, the bank request
documentation, what response does Greenwich Land give in
response to that request?
A. Both transactions are part of a loan agreement. Please see
attached loan agreement.
Q. Now, the bank request the information within 14 days. Do
you see that?
A. Yes.
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Q. Ms. Loftus, let's look again at what the date was of the
request was of Ms. Colon?
A. November 19, 2020.
Q. And we can zoom out and just scroll up the chain. Stop
there for a moment so we can see this email.
On November 24, 2020, there's an outgoing email from
Miriam Colon, what does that email say?
A. Following up. Hope your day is going well. Please see
email sent on November 18. I need to respond to my compliance
department on this. Can you please provide information
requested.
Q. And we can zoom out, Ms. Loftus, and go up again.
On what date does Daniel Podhaskie respond to Miriam
Colon?
A. On the 24th he said, Thanks for following up. We'll get
back shortly.
Q. And then what happens on December 1, 2020?
A. She requested a follow-up again.
Q. And scroll up please, Ms. Loftus.
And then looking here at the bottom of page one, on
what date does Daniel Podhaskie provide the requested
information?
A. December 2nd.
Q. If we could look at the top of this page please, Ms.
Loftus. In particular the email that you write Ms. Wilson.
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What do you write in your email here?
A. This is for Greenwich Land and the relationship between ACA
Capital. These are the answers we received from the customer.
I wanted to follow-up on the information. We could go over it
on Monday when I got back with my assistant.
Q. We can zoom out, and let's look at the attachment to this
email, Ms. Loftus. It's a few pages down. If we could zoom in
on the top portion here.
Ms. Wilson, is this a document that Daniel Podhaskie
provided to the bank in response to its inquiry?
A. Yes.
Q. What is the title of this document?
A. Loan agreement.
Q. What is the date of the agreement?
A. October 16, 2020.
Q. And who are the parties, looking first at party one?
A. ACA Capital Group and Greenwich Land, LLC.
Q. Let's zoom out, please, Ms. Loftus. And focus on the loan
which is item two here.
Ms. Wilson, in the first sentence of this paragraph,
what is the loan amount for this loan agreement?
A. Five million.
Q. We can zoom out again, Ms. Loftus. Can we scroll down,
please. Is there one more page or is that the end? We can
zoom in on the signature lines, please.
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What entity is listed as signing on behalf of ACA
Capital Group Limited?
A. Celestial Tide Limited.
Q. And how is Celestial Tide Limited described?
A. The director of ACA Capital Group Limited.
Q. All right. Ms. Loftus, we can take that down.
Ms. Wilson, did there come a time when a company
called G/Club Operations applied to open an account at Bank of
Princeton?
A. Yes.
Q. Approximately when was that?
A. That was at the end of September beginning of October.
Q. Of what year?
A. 2020.
Q. How, if at all, did you become aware of that account
application?
A. They were also brought to us from the same investment
advisor.
Q. Did you conduct a BSA review of that account?
A. Yes.
Q. What, if anything, do you recall about the G/Club account
opening materials?
A. The opening documents they had formed them in Puerto Rico,
the business formation was in Puerto Rico, and they had an
address listed in Puerto Rico and in New York. They had their
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SS4, but none of the signers that were going to be on the
business account were on the business formation documents, and
the beneficial open was a non-resident alien.
Q. You said SS4, what does that refer to?
A. SS4 is their EIN number. So it's a letter from the IRS
assigning an EIN number to the business, such as you get your
social security number. That's their sole identifier.
Q. Ms. Loftus, can we please publish Government Exhibit BOP-1.
Ms. Wilson, is this the account agreement for that
account you just mentioned G/Club Operations?
A. Yes.
Q. Can we focus on the top portion, Ms. Loftus, on the left
side. What is the full name of the institution for this
account?
A. G/Club Operations, LLC.
Q. And what is the address listed for G/Club Operations, LLC?
A. 590 Madison Avenue, 21st floor, New York, New York 10022.
Q. Now there's a handwritten annotation under that address.
Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. What does it say?
A. Correct address.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we can please pull up alongside this what's
in evidence as Government Exhibit SW-2009. If we could zoom in
on the top portion from through to the address that's listed
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there as center.
Ms. Wilson, do you see to whom this email on the right
side was sent?
A. HaithamK@CraneAdvisoryGroup.com.
Q. To whom is it address?
A. To Yvette Wang.
Q. And looking on the right there, there's a field called
center. Do you see that?
A. I'm sorry. Say that again.
Q. Sure. There's transaction for the value. There are a few
fields under transaction details. What is listed under center?
A. New York, New York, City, 590 Madison Ave, 590 Madison Ave,
New York City 10022.
Q. And two lines down, what is the authorization date
associated with that transaction?
A. October 14, 2020.
Q. Keeping that up, Ms. Loftus, looking on the left at the
Bank of Princeton account agreement for G/Club Operations, if
we could focus on the owner/signer information there.
Who is listed as the owner/signer of this account?
A. Yvette Wang.
Q. And the address that we just went over on the top here
that's listed, is that the same address that's listed on the
document on the right?
A. Yes.
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Q. If we could zoom out of that, Ms. Loftus, and we'll just
focus again on BOP-1. We can take down SW-2009. Let's go to
page three, please, focus on the top portion. Actually, all
the way down to the bottom of the text here. This is on the
bottom right.
Ms. Wilson, what is the date the account was opened?
A. 10/30/2020.
Q. On the top left, what is the name of the second signer on
this account?
A. Alex Hadjicharalambous.
Q. And what is Alex Hadjicharalambous' occupation listed as
here?
A. Comptroller.
Q. Let's go to page eight, please, Ms. Loftus.
Again, Ms. Wilson, what type of document is this?
A. That's the limited liability company authorization
resolution.
Q. And looking here, for what company?
A. For G/Club Operations.
Q. And what is the address listed for G/Club Operations on
this corporate document?
A. 590 Madison Avenue, 21st Floor New York, New York 10022.
Q. And do you see the two signers here on the account?
A. Yvette Wang and Alex H.
Q. Are those the same signers who were listed above in the
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account opening documentation?
A. Yes.
Q. Let's go to page 13, please. If we could focus, Ms.
Loftus, on that portion down to the bottom.
What is the name of this scanned passport?
A. Yanping Wang.
Q. And what is the issuing country of this passport?
A. China.
Q. And then if we could focus on the handwritten information
on the bottom here, Ms. Loftus.
What does that say, Ms. Wilson?
A. Second form of ID, occupation manager.
Q. Let's go to the next page, page 14.
What is this an image of, Ms. Wilson?
A. A credit card.
Q. Why, if at all, would Bank of Princeton collect a scan of a
credit card in connection with an account opening?
A. That can be used as a second form of ID for an individual.
Q. And what is the individual's name listed on this credit
card?
A. Golden Spring, New York. And it's Yanping Wang.
Q. Let's go to page 21, please.
Again, Ms. Wilson, is this the beneficial owner
certification for the G/Club Operation's account?
A. Yes.
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Q. And looking through to the table, the person opening the
account listed as Alex H, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And then the name and address of the legal entity is the
same as we've been looking at in the account opening
documentation?
A. Yes.
Q. What is the name of the ultimate beneficial owner of
G/Clubs according to this document?
A. He, Haoran.
Q. Can you spell that?
A. H-E, last name is, H-A-O-R-A-N.
Q. And looking at the address field, can you read that
address?
A. 79 East Works Drive Cofton, Hackett, UK.
Q. At the bottom if we could focus on the portion through --
to the date.
What date was this form submitted?
A. October 29, 2020.
Q. And this is a corporate document for G/Clubs that was
provided to Bank of Princeton; is that correct?
A. Yes, this is a form the bank gives them to fill out to
explain who their beneficial owners are.
Q. And, Ms. Loftus, if we can go to page 25.
Ms. Wilson, what type of document is this?
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A. This is a certificate of organization for the business for
G/Club.
Q. Looking at this, where was G/Club organized?
A. Puerto Rico.
Q. And on what date?
A. October 7, 2020.
THE COURT: All righty. It's now 3 p.m., so our work
has come to an end for the day. Members of the jury, remember
that you're not allowed to discuss the case amongst yourselves
or with anyone else. Don't permit anyone to discuss the case
in your presence. Don't read, watch, or listen to anything
from any source about anything having to do with the subject
matter of this trial. Have a good evening. I'll see you ready
to come into the courtroom tomorrow at 9:30. Thank you.
THE LAW CLERK: Jury exiting.
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: You may step out. Don't discuss your
testimony.
(Witness temporarily excused)
(Continued on next page)
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(Jury not present)
THE COURT: Please be seated. Who do we expect to
testify tomorrow?
MS. MURRAY: So we'll be continuing with Ms. Wilson
and then we will have Sam Roberts who is a Bitgo employee that
we discussed earlier, and then Bo Collins. And with respect to
Mr. Collins, we don't anticipate that we will get past his
direct examination tomorrow. But with respect to the issue we
had flagged this morning on the documents, we've spoken with
defense counsel. And our proposal, if it's acceptable to the
Court, in the very unlikely event that we did complete his
direct examination tomorrow, we would request to then adjourn
for the day to give the defense the benefit of the weekend to
prepare his cross. Again, I think it's extremely unlikely that
will be the timeline. I suspect he will still be on direct
when the day ends.
THE COURT: Anything else?
MS. MURRAY: Nothing from the government.
THE COURT: All righty. Thank you. Please have the
witness on the stand at 9:29 tomorrow. Have a good evening.
(Adjourned to June 14, 2024 at 9:00 a.m.)
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INDEX OF EXAMINATION
Examination of: Page
MINRAN WU
2393Direct By Mr. Fergenson . . . . . . . . . . .
2431Cross By Mr. Schirick . . . . . . . . . . . .
2499Redirect By Mr. Fergenson . . . . . . . . . .
2506Recross By Mr. Schirick . . . . . . . . . . .
2513Redirect By Mr. Fergenson . . . . . . . . . .
KIMBERLY ESPINOZA
2514Direct By Mr. Finkel . . . . . . . . . . . . .
2530Cross By Mr. Schirick . . . . . . . . . . . .
JAMIE WILSON
2536Direct By Ms. Murray . . . . . . . . . . . . .
GOVERNMENT EXHIBITS
Exhibit No. Received
2515 VNB1-3, IDB1, IDB3, IDB4, IDB7, SIG1, . . . .
SIL4, SIL3, SIL40
2516 CAP623 and CAP624 . . . . . . . . . . . . .
2542 BOP-16, BOP-7, BOP-1, BOP-2, BOP-3 and . . .
BOP-4
2551 BOP-12 and BOP-10 . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VN-12 2413 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Z12 2517 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VN13 2410 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
VN-37 2420 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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VN39 2394 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
BOP-40 2554 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
BR451 and BR452 2515 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
DEFENDANT EXHIBITS
Exhibit No. Received
7003 2509 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Translated Text(简体中文翻译)
【中文翻译 仅供参考】
O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 1 / 152页
美国纽约南区法院
-------------------------------------------------------x
美国政府
控方 23 Cr. 118 (AT)
郭文贵
辩方
-------------------------------------------------------x
纽约州纽约市，
2024 年 6 月 13 日
上午 9:00
庭前:
尊敬的阿娜丽莎-托雷斯法官大人
地区法官
-陪审团-
出庭律师:
达米安-威廉姆斯
纽约南区美国联邦检察官
代表：迈卡·F·费根森
瑞安·B·芬克
贾斯廷·霍顿
朱莉安娜·N·莫里
助理美国检察官
萨布丽娜·P·施洛夫
被告律师
PRYOR CASHMAN LLP
被告律师
【中文翻译 仅供参考】
O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 2 / 152页
代表：西德哈达·卡马拉珠
马修·巴肯
ALSTON & BIRD LLP
被告律师
代表：E·斯科特·舒里克
其他出席人员：
伊萨贝尔· 洛夫特斯 - 律师助理专员
Ruben MontilL-A - 辩方律师助理
Tuo Huang - 口译员（普通话）
Shi Feng - 口译员（普通话）
Yu Mark Tang - 口译员（普通话）
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 3 / 152页 (审判继续；陪审团未出席) 法官说：早上好。 费根森律师说：早上好。 法官说：请报上你们的名字。 费根森律师说：早上好，法官大人。米佧·费根森、朱丽安娜·莫里、贾斯汀·霍顿代表政 府出庭；还有我们的助理伊萨贝尔·洛夫特斯。 舒里克律师说：早上好，法官大人。思高特·舒里克、萨布林娜·施洛夫和马特·巴肯代表 郭先生出庭，郭先生也在律师席上。 法官说：请坐。 根据 2024 年 6 月 12 日的来信，政府表示将传唤 Bitgo 的金融情报主管塞缪尔·罗伯茨， 他的公司为喜马拉雅交易所提供了某些服务。政府预计罗伯茨先生将就他参与 Bitgo 对其与喜马 拉雅交易所业务关系的审查作证。具体而言，Bitgo 进行了两次审查——2021 年开始与交易所建 立业务关系时的初步尽职调查，以及收到与交易所相关的传票后进行的另一次“更深入”的审查。 在第二次审查中，罗伯茨先生与交易所代表沟通，“评估了喜马拉雅交易所提供的信息和来自公 共来源的信息”，并建议 Bitgo终止与交易所的关系。 根据 2024 年 6 月 12 日的来信，辩方表示罗伯茨先生预计的某些关于他收集的事实信息 的证词可能是可接受的。然而，辩方寻求阻止政府引出罗伯茨先生关于喜币和喜美元是否为加密 货币、喜马拉雅交易所是否为加密货币交易所以及喜币、喜美元和喜马拉雅交易所的设计/功能 的意见。 今天早上，政府提交了一份回应，表示不打算“询问罗伯茨是否认为喜币和喜美元是加密 货币，或喜马拉雅交易所是否是加密货币交易所。”相反，政府表示“罗伯茨将作证他所观察到 的、交易所告诉他的信息以及这些信息如何影响他进行的审查，并形成了他建议 Bitgo终止与交 易所关系的建议。” 在双方之间仍存在争议的情况下，法院同意辩方的观点，即喜币和喜美元是否为加密货 币以及喜马拉雅交易所是否为加密货币交易所的问题，需要符合规则 702意义上的“科学、技术
【中文翻译 仅供参考】
O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 4 / 152页
或其他专业知识”。实际上，双方都已经通知专家对这两个问题发表意见。相比之下，罗伯茨先
生并未被通知为专家证人。因此，政府不得引出他对这两个问题的意见。
法院不应广泛排除罗伯茨先生关于喜币、喜美元和喜马拉雅交易所设计和功能的证词。
他可以声明他根据调查结果建议 Bitgo终止关系，但他不得提供关于加密货币特征的一般信息，
也不得对喜币、喜美元是否为加密货币以及交易所是否为加密货币交易所发表意见。还有其他事
情吗？
费根森律师说：政府还有一件事，法官大人。我们只是想让法院了解一下这个情况。我
们正在与辩方积极讨论这一点。但我们想让法院知道——
为了提供背景信息，政府的——本周通知的证人之一是博柯林斯。他是有利银行的首席
执行官。作为对法官大人��提醒，有利银行是一家数字银行，之前波多黎各的金融机构汉密尔
顿，即余建明实体，是打算收购它的。在该收购之前不久，政府对汉密尔顿的银行账户执行了扣
押令。扣押了大约 6亿美元。柯林斯先生是有利的首席执行官。政府打算传唤他作证，说明喜
马拉雅交易所是有利银行的客户并在那儿拥有银行账户。政府打算让他作证说明这种关系以及收
购提议，然后是资金扣押，导致收购停止。
收购之后，有利和汉密尔顿之间进行了仲裁，类似于私人仲裁，据我理解，是基于购买
销售协议中的合同纠纷。这在仲裁中进行了诉讼。我认为有利赢得了仲裁，最终申请了——我不
知道正确的术语——在纽约南区联邦法院确认仲裁裁决。我不确定该案的状态，但仲裁已经完
成。
我们在 4 月中旬收到了——我们在今年 4 月中旬请求并收到了有利的制作文件。这是对
我们请求的柯林斯先生在仲裁中作证的任何证词的回应。我们从有利公司收到了——我认为您会
称之为仲裁文件，法官大人。经过快速审查，它似乎是双方在仲裁中的文件，可能还有双方在仲
裁中的一些往来通信或证据交换、仲裁裁决以及仲裁听证会的记录。我认为那是一次为期两天的
听证会。该次制作的文件在今年四月中旬漏掉提供给辩方。我们昨晚得知此事，并立即将其提供
给辩方。在上传过程中，政府尽快点击查看了这些文件，以了解其中的内容。这就是我的理解—
—基于此，这是我的理解。我们标记了认为最相关的部分给柯林斯先生，我相信在仲裁中他们通
过宣誓书进行直接证词，然后在听证会上进行了交叉询问。所以我们标记了他的宣誓书，我们看
到的其他有利员工的宣誓书，并标记了听证会记录，比如那些的贝茨号码，法官大人。不幸的
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 5 / 152页 是，这涉及大量的页数，约 16,000页。据我了解，这大约是 754份文件。我快速浏览后，认为 页数远远超过文件数的原因，是法官大人可以理解为类似于简易判决动议，其中一方提交了一份 给仲裁员的简报，并附上了与仲裁相关的长合同和有利的尽职调查文件等作为附件。但是这些文 件的附件非常长。这是我在快速审查中的感受。我们尚未确定——虽然我们希望进一步审查这些 内容，以便对辩方更有帮助，但我们在此之前已经从有利公司收到了大量的文件，这是为了回应 大陪审团的传票，该传票要求提供与汉密尔顿相关的任何和所有文件，并具体说明包括任何拟议 的合并交易。这是我们大陪审团传票的请求。作为回应，他们之前已经向我们提供了，我们也已 经向辩方提供了大约 16,000份文件，总共约 79,000页。现在我们尚未确认这些仲裁文件的附 件是否与之前大陪审团传票的文件重复。从主题上来说，它们——它们应该是相关的，但这是我 们想要查看的一件事，以便看看是否能为辩方标记任何可能是新的内容，或者其他任何我们认为 对柯林斯先生的证词特别重要的内容，或者我们想要为他们标记的内容，以便他们可以更仔细地 查看。正如我所说，我们也在与辩方进行一般性的讨论。我们愿意推迟柯林斯先生的证词，以便 他们有更多时间审查这些文件，但我们尚未就如何处理柯林斯先生的证词达成一致。无论如何， 他今天不会作证。我们对如何最好地解决这个问题持开放态度。我们希望有效利用陪审团和法庭 的时间。我们对任何选项持开放态度，包括任何可能性，如果辩方愿意的话，柯林斯先生可以在 星期五进行他的直接问询，到星期一再进行交叉询问，这样给他们更多时间来审查这些文件和他 的直接证词记录，或者即使他们希望我们下周再传唤他，我们也对此持开放态度。我们正在讨论 此事。我只是想提醒法庭这个问题，也只是再这个问题方面供您参考。 法官说：大陪审团文件和仲裁文件有目录吗？ 费根森律师说：没有目录，法官大人。 法官说：辩方有什么要说的吗？ 舒里克律师说：法官大人，我只能简短评论这一点。卡马拉珠先生实际上正在评估这些 材料，因为正如费根森律师所指出的，我们昨晚才收到这些材料。因此我们目前无法对所拥有的 材料进行实质性评估。显然我们需要一些时间来处理这些材料才能做到这一点。我只是想提醒法 院，柯林斯先生是在政府周六早上通知的证人名单上，因此他是在周末通知的，而我们昨晚才收 到这些信息。正如我所说，卡马拉珠先生在今天晚些时候审查完这些材料后，将会更详细地讨论 这个问题。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 6 / 152页 我想指出，除了政府已经提出的关于柯林斯先生证词的后勤问题外，还有一个类似的问题，即根 据我们如何处理柯林斯先生的证词，明天结束时可能会有额外的时间。显然，这还有待观察。如 果事情进展如此迅速，我们都会很高兴。但在这种情况下，我们尚未收到政府关于他们可能在此 时传唤谁的通知。所以，这一切都在实时发生。我们还没有太多机会与政府讨论此事，但我只是 向法庭提请注意。 费根森律师说：我们很感谢，法官大人。我们也愿意与辩方讨论，尽力为他们提供便 利。我们不能保证没有错误，但如果发现错误，我们会尽力纠正，这是我们希望在此做的。 法官说：你们没有一群人在审判时比较两个文件吗？ 费根森律师说：我们没有一大群人，但这是我们的计划，法官大人。我们将尝试进行比 较并进一步为辩方指出任何内容。 法官说：还有其他事情吗？ 费根森律师说：政府没有其他事情。 舒里克律师说：辩方没有其他事情，法官大人。 法官说：好的。我们将于 9:30重新开庭。请让证人 9:29到证人席上。 费根森律师说：是的，法官大人。 （休庭） 法官说：请让陪审员们进来。 （陪审团出席） 法官说：请坐。 早上好，陪审员们。 陪审员们说：早上好。 法官说：我们将继续对证人的直接审问。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】
O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 7 / 152页
请记住你们仍在宣誓之下。
你可以询问了。
费根森律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。
吴敏然，继续出庭。
继续直接审问
由检方律师费根森先生进行：
问：早上好，吴女士。
答：早上好。
问：吴女士，当我们昨天中断时，我们正在讨论农场贷款项目。你记得吗？
答：记得。
问：你参与了农场贷款项目吗？
答：是的。
问：你向你的农场汇款了吗？
答：是的。
问：你汇了多少钱？
答：2万美元。
问：大约什么时候你汇了 2万美元？
答：2020 年 8 月。
问：你把 2万美元汇到了哪里？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】
O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 8 / 152页
答：香草山有限责任公司，类似的地方。
问：你用于汇款到香草山的账户名称是什么？
答：Wonder Invest 有限责任公司。
问：与该转账相关，你签署了贷款协议吗？
答：是的，应该是。
费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否向证人展示标记为政府附件 VN39 的文件。
问：吴女士，这是贷款协议吗？
答：是的，是的。
费根森律师说：政府提交政府附件 VN39。
舒里克律师说：没有异议。
法官说：获准。
（政府附件 VN39 被接收为证据）
费根森律师说：我们能否公布这个文件。
好吧。洛夫特斯女士，如果我们能放大上半部分，使文本更大一些，方便大家阅读。很
好。
由检方律师费根森先生进行：
问：好吧。吴女士，你在顶部看到这里写着借款协议吗？
答：是的。
问：这份借款协议上的借款人是谁？
答：MOS农场，香草山农场。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 9 / 152页 问：贷方是谁？ 答：我。 问：这份借款协议的日期是什么时候？ 答：2020 年 8 月 12 日。 问：在借款金额下，你看到写的是 2万美元吗？ 答：是的。 问：那么，吴女士，请注意第 1（a）段，资金用途，我将读出这一段。 答：好的。 问：这里写道，“资金用途：根据本协议提供的借款资金将用于借款人的一般营运资金用途。”借 款人是农场，对吗，吴女士？ 答：是的。 问：吴女士，你是在汇款之前还是之后读了这份文件？ 答：我记不清了，因为那时很多事情堆在一起。我们非常匆忙和紧张，因为他们给我们 24小时 到 48小时，总之是很短的时间来等待我们的银行账户信息，他们用了几个银行账户，但给每个 人发送不同的银行账户。我不知道他们是什么，只是我们需要等待我们自己的银行账户。之后， 我们需要立即汇款，因为他们说那些银行账户可能会因为中共而随时停止使用。然后我们需要写 一封电子邮件到他们提供的电子邮件地址，提供他们要求的很多材料，然后发送电子邮件到农 场，我们需要加入一个 Telegram群组。在那个群组里，我们需要等待他们确认我们的钱。所 以，非常忙碌。可能，只是稍微——在签合同之前看了一下合同，但我不认为我有很多时间仔细 阅读每一页。 问：吴女士，你昨天解释说你认为这份借款协议是为了获得 GTV股票。你记得吗？ 答：记得。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 10 / 152页 问：资金用途部分没有提到 GTV股票，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你被告知为什么会这样吗？ 答：他们说在合同中不能清楚地写明这一点，因为中共总是在盯着这个群体，他们不能这样做。 问：谁告诉你的？ 答：郭文贵说的。夏其东也说了。 问：再提醒我们一下，夏其东的另一个名字是什么。 答：长岛或长岛伟哥。 问：这是什么意思？ 答：长岛是一个岛的意思，伟哥是伟大兄弟的意思。 问：吴女士，注意这份合同的第(c)段，你看到这里写着“利率”了吗？利率是多少？ 答：他们说我们把钱借给农场，对吧，农场应该给我们这个利息，每年 3%。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们现在可以滚动到第 7页。 问：吴女士，你签署了这份合同吗？ 答：是的。 问：还有谁签了这份合同？ 答：夏其东。 问：吴女士，你签署这份合同的日期是什么时候？ 答：2020 年 8 月 12 日。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 11 / 152页 问：夏其东签署这份合同的日期是什么时候？ 答：2021 年 11 月 2 日。 问：超过一年后？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们现在可以滚动到第 9页。 问：吴女士，你看到这里写着实体名称，写的是Wonder Invest 有限责任公司吗？ 答：是的。 问：能提醒我们一下，Wonder Invest 有限责任公司是什么？ 答：是我自己的公司。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以到下一页。 问：好吧。吴女士，你看到顶部写着附录了吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，为了更容易阅读，我们可以放大上半部分吗？ 问：好的。我将读第一段。 第一段写道，“借款协议第 1（a）条款应修改为如下内容。根据本协议提供的借款资金 可以由借款人自行决定使用，不受限制，包括但不限于营运资金、政治活动、借款给其他方和/ 或投资用途。”吴女士，长岛对这个附录有什么说法？ 答：我不记得了。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以缩小并滚动到第 12页，再往下几页。 问：好吧。吴女士，这份附录的签署日期是什么时候？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】
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答：2021 年 11 月 5 日。
问：这是你签署的日期，对吗？
答：是的。
问：夏其东签署的日期是什么时候？
答：2021 年 11 月 2 日。
问：这和夏其东签署原借款协议的日期一样吗？
答：是的。
费根森律师说：好吧。现在让我们回到第 12页。请放大第 6段。
问：好吧。我将读第 6段，吴女士。
答：好的。
问：“借款人应有权单方面终止借款协议，如果贷方有以下行为：
“（a）贷方诽谤、诋毁、侮辱、羞辱、虐待、咒骂或书面、公开或秘密地对郭
文贵先生，也就是郭文贵进行诽谤；
“（b）贷方发表或进行任何违背爆料革命（WM）任务的言论或行为。为了本
借款协议的目的，WM定义为一系列揭露中国共产党（CCP）犯罪活动和传播真相的运动、行
动和平台（包括 GTV），目的是实现对 CCP 的全面和彻底的毁灭；
“（c）贷方发表或进行任何违背新中国联邦（NFSC）任务的言论或活动。为了
本注释的目的，NFSC是一个由郭文贵先生创立并由反 CCP社群支持的半国家主权，使命是建
立一个没有 CCP 的新中国，向中国人民推广法治、自由和民主的普世理念。”
吴女���，我们讨论了原借款协议。在你 2021 年 11 月收到借款附录时，你在签署之前读了这份
附录吗？
答：没有。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 13 / 152页 问：为什么在签署之前你没有读附录？ 答：那时其实我已经在考虑要求退款了。 问：为什么考虑要求退款会影响你是否读这份合同？或附录。对不起。 答：这是在 11 月，对吧？实际上，我从 2021 年 4 月或 5 月就开始怀疑这个组织，因为 当时美国证券交易委员会（SEC）发布了与 GTV 的和解协议，所以我上网查看了那个文件，然 后觉得有些不对劲，还有其他一些事情在一起。 问：我们会在几分钟后讨论这些事情，吴女士。 答：好的。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以缩小并回到第 12页，对不起，是第 14页。对 不起。 问：吴女士，请解释一下，为什么在你当时考虑要求退款的情况下，你仍然签署了这份附录。 答：如果我不这样做，我肯定没有机会要求退款。 问：你为什么这么说？ 答：首先，我听到很多人说如果他们要求退款，那么他们可能——只是可能，我不能保证，因为 我听说很多人因为退款要求已经被他们的农场驱逐。然后—— 舒里克律师说：法官大人，反对，传闻。 法官说：反对有效。 费根森律师说：这只是为了解释她为什么签署附录，法官大人，不是为了证明庭外陈述 的真实性。 法官说：既然如此，那么答案有效。 由检方律师费根森先生进行：
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 14 / 152页 问：对不起，吴女士。你在解释为什么即使在考虑退款的情况下，你仍然签署了附录。 答：然后我——我只是觉得我需要一个安全的方法来做这件事。我当时还没有找到方法。然后我 不得不先签这个，后来，我想我会——我会做些什么。 问：当你说“做些什么”时，你是什么意思？ 答：找到一个合适的机会来做这件事。 问：当你说“做这件事”时，吴女士，你指的是什么？ 答：要求退款。 问：你——我们稍后会谈到，但你最终要求了农场借款的退款吗？ 答：是的。 问：好吧。我们稍后会谈到这个。吴女士，你做过什么与农场借款转账相关的志愿工作吗？ 答：在群组里，香草山农场建立了一个群组来做诉讼所需文件的翻译工作。 问：诉讼是与谁之间的？ 答：香草山农场和凤凰农场之间。 问：当时谁负责凤凰农场？ 答：当时应该是魏丽红。 问：你能解释一下在香草山为此创建的聊天群中分享的文件类型吗？大致上，分享的文件类型是 什么？ 答：各种借款项目的文件，来自——我不知道是否来自所有农场，但肯定来自世界各地的各种农 场。 问：谁会把这些文件发送到聊天群里？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 15 / 152页 答：张勇兵和夏其东负责这个群组。张勇兵和他的助手分发这些文件给我们翻译。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否公布作为政府附件 121 的证据。我们可以公布 它。 问：吴女士，这是谁？ 答：这是张勇兵。 问：他在香草山农场的角色是什么？ 答：他当时是香草山农场的法律小组负责人。 问：他在农场之后的职位是什么？ 答：之后，他被提升到喜马拉雅联盟，然后到铁血组。 问：他—— 法官说：他还有其他名字吗？ 证人说：张勇兵是他的真名。他的别名是铲共骑侠。 问：吴女士，你能拼写一下张勇兵给法庭记录员吗？ 答：张勇兵。Z-H-A-N-G，Y-O-N-G-B-I-N-G。 问：你说，吴女士，他被提升到喜马拉雅联盟和铁血组。什么是铁血组？ 答：应该是这个组织的核心，所有成员都是郭文贵的助手。 费根森律师说：好吧。洛夫特斯女士，我们现在能否只向证人展示标记为政府附件 VN7 的文件。 问：吴女士，你说张勇兵或他的助手将文件分享给这个聊天群，对吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 16 / 152页 问：一些发送给你的文件是文本消息的截图吗，吴女士？ 答：是的。 问：对不起，我没听清。这份文件现在显示在你的屏幕上了吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是张勇兵或他的助手分享给聊天群的文件之一吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府附件 VN7。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，可以预审吗？ 法官说：可以。 预审询问 由辩方律师舒里克先生进行： 问：吴女士，这份文件不是你创建的，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：你知道这份文件是什么时候创建的吗？ 答：不知道。 问：你知道是谁创建的吗？明确说，我是问谁创建了这份文件，而不是文件中出现的人名。 答：我不知道。应该是铁血组的人。 问：但你不知道。 答：因为是他们做的，没有其他人能做这个。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 17 / 152页 问：我理解。我问的是你知道什么，而不是推测可能发生了什么。 答：好的。我不知道。 费根森律师说：法官大人，她回答了问题。 舒里克律师说：我们反对。 法官说：反对无效。获准。 费根森律师说：我们可以公布这个文件，洛夫特斯女士。 由检方律师费根森先生进行： 问：好吧。现在—— 舒里克律师说：法官大人，在费根森律师开始提问之前，我们可以有一个简短的边栏讨 论吗？ 法官说：可以。 （边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 舒里克律师说：法官大人，我们继续对这一点提出异议，理由是传闻证据和包含中文内 容。这是我们的异议。 费根森律师说：这不是传闻。它是郭文贵的代理人发送给香草山农场的；显然是代理人 的陈述。其次，这是一张包含郭文贵在内的文本截图。我不认为这会是传闻。 关于中文翻译，我很乐意——绝大多数内容是英文的。我很乐意只问她关于英文部分的问题。我 们对此没有很多问题。如果需要的话，我们可以将有限的中文文本翻译并发送给辩方。我们可以 将其作为证据—— 法官说：这个问题以前出现过。任何中文内容都需要翻译。所以你需要暂时搁置这一 点，我的裁决待定，可以这么说。 费根森律师说：好的。我会跳过这个部分。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 18 / 152页 舒里克律师说：还有一点，法官大人。我相信证人作证时，尽管费根森律师描述了该文 件的来源，但证人作证她完全不知道是谁创建了这个文件或它从哪里来的。 费根森律师说：这不是真的。她说这是在聊天中分享给她的，她从聊天中下载的。 施洛夫律师说：她从未说过她下载了—— 费根森律师说：对。如果你想让我问她—— 施洛夫律师说：请让我说完。她没有说她下载了，也没有说她创建了这个文件。我们应 该明确记录到目前为止的事实，因为——我们可以随时回去看，但我不相信有任何证词表明她下 载了这个文件。 费根森律师说：你是对的，对不起。 法官说：但她认出了它。 施洛夫律师说：我认为她确实这么说过。但她从未说过这个文件是如何创建的，对吧？ 他问她是谁创建了目前的这个附件，所以——说她下载了这个文件是不准确的。 费根森律师说：关于创建，你不需要创建一个文件来创建一个文件。它是发给她的。我 可以问她这个问题。 法官说：所以我们会等待翻译，但如果是有人发给她的，她认出来了，它将被接受。 舒里克律师说：我们提出传闻证据异议，但我们理解，法官大人。 法官说：这是共谋者的陈述，或所谓的共谋者。继续吧。 （回到公开法庭上） 法官说：你可以继续。 费根森律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 好的。洛夫特斯女士，我们现在能否向证人展示标记为政府附件 VN13 的文件。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 19 / 152页 由检方律师费根森先生进行： 问：吴女士，这是在那个聊天群中分享的另一份文件吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府附件 VN13。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，预审询问可以吗？ 法官说：可以。 预审询问 由辩方律师舒里克先生进行： 问：吴女士，再次确认，这份文件不是你创建的，对吗？ 答：几个人一起创建的。 问：我的问题是：你创建了这份文件吗？ 答：我参与了一些部分。 问：你创建了这份文件的一部分吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。你知道这是这份文件的最终版本吗？ 答：我可以移动——移动它吗？ 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果你想稍微向下滚动。 你可以继续滚动，洛夫特斯女士。 答：没有总计。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 20 / 152页 由辩方律师舒里克先生进行： 问：好的。你知道这份文件中显示的信息来源是什么吗？ 答：你看到文件编号了吗？那些文件编号只是张勇兵分发给我们的不同截图。 问：对不起。你能再解释一下吗？ 答：文件编号，那一栏，文件编号栏，MLP，全部只是—— 问：哦，文件编号。我明白了。继续。 答：每一个代表一个截图。我们进行了翻译。 问：好的。我的问题是：你知道这份文件中的财务信息来源是什么吗？ 答：你说来源是什么意思？来源于他们给我们的截图，他们从不同农场获得的截图。 费根森律师说：我们看过的第一个附件是这些截图的一个例子吗？ 证人说：是的，是的。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，同样的异议。 法官说：你在聊天中收到了这个文件，对吗？ 证人说：是的。 法官说：获准。 （政府附件 VN13 被接收为证据） 费根森律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。我们可以向陪审团展示，快速一点。我们可以滚动 到顶部。 由检方律师费根森先生进行： 问：吴女士，你看到第 1 行中用红色文字写着“备注”吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 21 / 152页 答：是的。 问：我将读出这个备注。它写道：“备注：以下金额已转账或由农场主确认已转账到 Maywind。” 吴女士，你记得接收人一栏中写的 Maywind Trading LLC吗？你记得那是什么吗？ 答：应该是凤凰农场的一个银行或银行账户。它只是用于接收来自农场成员的借款项目资金。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以滚动到底部，请。继续。 问：吴女士，你看到这个 Excel 上写着总计是 39,872,527 美元吗？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：好的。洛夫特斯女士——对不起。如果我们可以快速滚动回顶部，因为 当时陪审团没有看到这一点。 问：在文件编号一栏中，B栏，吴女士—— 答：是的。 问：你看到在该栏下的条目中有 MLP编号吗？ 答：MLP。 问：例如，在第 3 行中，它写着 MLP 0011-7？ 答：是的。 问：你能再解释一下，这是什么意思，让陪审团看到。 答：M 代表 Maywind。 由检方费根森律师继续询问： 问：这些文件编号是指我们最初看到的那种截图吗？ 舒里克律师说：反对。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 22 / 152页 法官说：反对有效。 答：是的。 法官说：你不能回答。答案被取消。 问：吴女士，你能解释这些编号是什么意思吗？ 答：“M”代表 Maywind。“L”代表诉讼。“P”代表凤凰农场。字母前的四位数字标识不同的农场。 例如，0011 代表香草山农场，喜马拉雅纽约 M香草山。七，之前张勇兵让他的助手将表格发送 给不同的农场，让农场主或相关人员填写。那个表格包括十个问题；例如，你的农场何时开始这 个借款项目；你的农场何时将第一笔款项发送给 Maywind；你的借款项目的总金额是多少，等 等。我不记得所有的十个问题。根据每个农场对表格问题的回答；一，代表问题一；二，代表问 题二。这里，七，代表问题七。关于问题七的截图包括一些金额或银行信息，并使用这些信息来 填写这个表格。此外，一些农场还发送了一些相关的银行对账单汇款详情。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否向证人展示标记为政府附件 VN-12 的文件。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，同样的反对意见。 费根森律师说：我稍后会提交它，法官大人。 问：吴女士，这是在聊天群中分享的文件吗？ 答：是的。 问：顺便问一下，吴女士，我们看过的聊天群中分享的文件，你是否向政府提供了这些文件？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府附件 VN-12。 舒里克律师说：同样的反对意见。 法官说：获准。 （政府附件 VN-12 被接收为证据）
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 23 / 152页 由检方费根森律师继续询问： 问：好的。洛夫特斯女士，也许我们可以最小化顶部栏以便我们能看到更多的这个 Excel，并且 我们可以向上滚动，如果我们能稍微向下滚动。吴女士，我想让你注意第 37 行，其中写着从第 0 行到第 35 行，并给出了总计。总计在那里用蓝色标出是什么？ 答：只是加在一起的转账金额。 问：这是否写着 106,489,540 美元？ 答：是的。 问：现在我想稍微向上滚动，洛夫特斯女士。我们可以看一个例子。你可以滚动到第 17 行。 吴女士，这一行写的金额是 3,080万美元。你看到了吗？ 答：嗯哼。 问：它写着发送者，然后有一个问号，然后写着接收者也有一个问号，接收者是阿布扎比。你看 到了吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道这里为什么有问号吗？ 答：所有这些信息来自 Sara 的截图。在那个截图中，Sara只是列出了这三个到阿布扎比 L-A 和 G Service，但没有提到来自哪里，所以这里有问号。 但我们没有任何详细信息；例如，银行对账单、汇款声明来显示阿布扎比 LA G Service，所以 有问号。 问：你知道为什么钱会被汇到阿布扎比吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：洛夫特斯女士，你可以拿下这个。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 24 / 152页 现在，吴女士，你知道在你将 2万美元汇给香草山农场后，这笔钱是否被使用了吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：你是否曾经因为你的借款收到 GTV股票？ 答：没有。 问：你是否曾经因为你的借款收到利息？ 答：没有。 问：吴女士，郭文贵在他的直播中说过什么关于将投资者的钱用于他个人开销的事情吗？ 答：没有。 问：他怎么说的？ 答：他说没有人能碰我们的钱，甚至一分钱都安全，所有的钱都是安全的。 问：如果你知道郭文贵将投资者的钱用于个人开销，你还会投资于农场借款项目吗？ 舒里克律师说：反对。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：不会。 问：你会投资他推广的任何东西吗？ 舒里克律师说：反对。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：不会。 问：吴女士，您是否曾像您之前提到的那样，要求退还您汇出的农场借款计划资金？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 25 / 152页 答：在 2022 年 9 月。 问：我们会讨论退款时间，但你收到退款了吗？ 答：收到了。 问： 退款包括利息吗？ 答：不包括。 问：退款包括任何 GTV股票吗？ 答：不包括。 问：你在 2022 年 9 月要求退款时，是和谁谈的？ 答：首先我联系了 香草山农场的 G 系列志愿者，她说她会联系夏其东，然后让我等。我等了几 个星期，什么也没发生，然后我又联系了那位志愿者。她说夏其东也许忘了这事，她会再问问 他。后来夏其东通过电子邮件联系了我，我们聊了好几次。 他问了一些问题，还让我签署了一份关于我银行账户的退款协议，然后他说会给我一张纸质支 票，所以后来我收到了一张纸质支票。 问：我们回头再谈你申请退款的时间。 但我想问一下，吴女士，你是否曾向 G-Clubs 寄过钱？ 答：2020 年 10 月。 问：你汇了多少钱给 G-Clubs？ 答：1万美元。 问：你把钱汇到哪里？ 答：G-Clubs Operating 有限责任公司。 问：你用于汇款到 G-Clubs 的账户名称是什么？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 26 / 152页 答：是联名账户。 问：吴女士，为什么你汇 1万美元给 G-Clubs？ 答：为了获得 GTV股票。 问：为什么你会认为汇钱给 G-Clubs会获得 GTV股票？ 答：郭文贵说的。 问：郭文贵在哪里说的？ 答：在他的视频中，可能是几个视频中。 问：你得到 GTV股票了吗？ 答：没有。 问：你从你的 G-Clubs会员中获得了什么好处吗？ 答：什么都没得到。 问：G Fashion是什么，吴女士？ 答：郭文贵创建的一个网站，销售时尚产品如服装、珠宝。 问：G Fashion 和 G-Clubs之间有什么联系吗？ 答：如果你是 G-Clubs会员，在购买 G Fashion时可以获得一些折扣。 问：你曾经购买过 G Fashion吗？ 答：没有。 问：为什么不？ 答：我不喜欢，不是我的风格，而且价格荒谬地贵。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 27 / 152页 问：吴女士，那为什么你支付 1万美元购买 G-Clubs会员？ 答：为了获得 GTV股票。 舒里克律师说：反对，已问过并答过。 法官说：反对无效。 问：吴女士，你是否曾经要求退款你汇给 G-Clubs 的钱？ 答：是的。 问：大概什么时候？ 答：2022 年 12 月。 问：你提到你在 2022 年 9 月要求退款给农场的借款？ 答：是的。 问：为什么你等到 2022 年 12 月才要求 G-Clubs 的退款？ 答：在申请 G-Clubs退款前，我先申请了喜币退款。 问：什么时候申请的？你能向我们解释一下你的各项退款请求的时间顺序吗？我们稍后会谈到喜 币？ 答：我觉得借款项目可能是最容易申请退款的，所以就先申请了。 问：为什么你认为农场借款项目会是最容易？ 答：之前我听说夏其东正接受政府调查，而且对他的调查越来越多。 我有机会翻译了一些夏其 东和其他香草山一些成员之间的电子邮件。这些邮件中，他们讨论了借款项目退款的问题。当时 夏其东在邮件中表现得有点理智，所以我觉得这是一个好兆头，可以获得退款。 问：为什么你没有同时要求所有投资项目的退款？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 28 / 152页 答：我害怕他们把我赶出农场，那样我就什么都得不到了。 问：你为什么担心会因为要求退款而被赶出农场？ 答：他们就是这样做的。他们经常这样做。 问：联盟成员怎么称呼那些在要求退款后被赶出农场的人？ 舒里克律师说：反对。 法官说：反对无效。证人可以回答。 答：中共间谍。 问：吴女士，回到 G-Clubs 退款申请的问题上来，你是如何申请 G-Clubs 退款的？ 答：我先问了农场，但农场说这与他们无关。我应该去找 G-Clubs要求退款。所以我登录 G- Clubs并询问了在线代理。然后 G-Clubs发给我电子邮件让我填写退款申请表格。我填写并提交 了，但到现在什么也没发生。 问：你多久给 G-Clubs 发一次电子邮件？ 答：大约一年，每天都写。 问：你收到过答复吗？ 答：机器回复。 问：你还记得机器回复说了什么？ 答：我们的工作人员将审查您的请求，如此之类。 问：吴女士，你是否拿回你在 G-Clubs 的 1万美元？ 答：没有。 问：你有没有因为这笔汇款而得到过 GTV 或其他公司的股份？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 29 / 152页 答：没有。 问：吴女士，喜币配额是什么？ 答：根据你之前的投资，包括你对法治基金的捐款，用一个复杂的公式来计算你应该得到的喜币 数量。 问：配额中每个喜币的价格是多少？ 答：每个币 10 美分。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请向证人出示标有政府证据 VN -37 的文件。 问：吴女士，这是什么文件？ 答：喜币协议。 费根森律师说：政府提交政府证据 VN-37。 舒里克律师说：没有异议。 法官说：获准。 （政府证据 VN-37 被采纳为法庭证据） 问：吴女士，这是你的喜币协议吗？ 答：是的。 问：和哪个农场签的？ 答：香草山农场。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否放大中间那段较大的段落？ 吴女士，我不打算读完整段落，你有多少喜币配额？ 答：44,500个。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 30 / 152页 问：每个喜币的价格是多少？ 答：每个 10 美分。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否缩小并转到第六页？ 这份文件是你签的吗，吴女士？ 答：是的。 问：你签署的日期是什么时候？ 答：2021 年 10 月 28 日。 问：还有谁签署了这份文件？ 答：夏其东。 问：洛夫特斯女士，请缩小然后回到第二页，放大从第五段直到第二页底部。我只读一小段，吴 女士。 上面说，本协议书的一个重要条款是，你在此不可撤销地完全同意并无限期地遵守以下保证和承 诺。您保证并确认您是喜马拉雅的成员，因此同意遵守喜马拉雅的规则和意识形态。 （洛夫特斯女士）请缩小，然后翻到第三页，放大一到四的罗马数字。我来读这些，吴 女士。 您承诺不采取、不支持及不提供便利给任何直接或间接旨在或违背喜马拉雅核心价值观和理想的 行动。 我稍稍跳过一点读第二部分。它说，你承诺不采取--往前跳过一点--任何旨在或有可能伤 害或破坏喜马拉雅的使命和意识形态的行动。 第三条说，你承诺不向--往前跳一点--中国共产党或中共或任何中共官员提供任何形式的支持或 利益。 第四条说，你承诺不采取--往前跳一点--任何旨在或可能伤害或损害喜马拉雅交易所声誉或业务 的行动。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 31 / 152页 吴女士，你对这些内容的理解是什么？ 答：无稽之谈。 问：请再说一遍，吴女士。 答：我觉得这是无稽之谈。我不明白为什么要写这些条款。 问：如果你批评爆料革命，你认为会发生什么？ 舒里克律师说：问过并答过。 法官说：反对有效。 问：（洛夫特斯女士）请缩小，然后回到签名页，第六页。 吴女士，你在 2021 年 10 月 28 日签署了这个文件。你是否为你的喜币配额付了钱？ 答：实际上，我在 2021 年 4 月就支付了喜币配额的钱。我不记得我是否记错了，我不记得当时 我有这份协议。 问：你在 2021 年 4 月支付了大约多少钱？ 答：不到 5000 美元。 问：你有没有发送 -我撤回这句。 请先把这个拿下来，洛夫特斯女士。 你把不到 5000 美元的喜币配额款寄到哪里了？ 答：他们给了我一个个人账户让我汇款。 问：你说他们给了你，谁给了你这个个人账户？ 答：志愿者，G 系列志愿者。 问：你汇出喜币配额款的账户名是什么？？ 答：不记得了，可能是联名账户也可能是我名下的账户。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 32 / 152页 问：吴女士，你为什么不把喜币配额款直接汇给喜马拉雅交易所？. 答：他们没有给我们任何与喜马拉雅交易所有关的账户。 问：联盟基金是什么？ 答：他们后来，很后来才说，这只是一个基金，用来持有我们的喜币，并买卖数字货币，为我们 获取更好的利润。 问：吴女士，总的来说，你是否了解谁可以直接投资，可以直接通过喜马拉雅交易所购买喜币？ 答：应该是除去美国和日本的农场成员，也许还除去加拿大。我不记得了，但肯定除去美日农场 成员。 问：如果不直接向喜马拉雅交易所汇款，你要支付多少佣金？ 答：百分之五。 问：那百分之五的佣金去哪里了？ 答：我不知道。 问：吴女士，你为什么在 2021 年 4 月汇款购买喜币配额？ 答：郭文贵说这种数字货币将来会成为世界领先的数字货币。当时已经有很多国家，包括著名的 金融机构，可能对喜币感兴趣，或者可能已经购买了喜币。所以抓住机会，这是个机会。然后他 们用我们之前的投资来计算配额，那为什么不买呢？ 问：当你使用“抓住机会”这个短语时，那是郭文贵说的。你怎样理解 "抓住机会 "？你指的是什 么？ 答：不是每个人都有这个机会。你很幸运能有这个机会，所以无论如何都不能错过它，因为你一 生中再也不会有这样的机会了。 问：郭是怎样说喜币与黄金的？ 答：没明白您的问题。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 33 / 152页 问��关于喜币和黄金，郭说过什么？ 答：他说喜马拉雅交易所有 20%的黄金作为储备。 问：这个 20%的黄金储备对你重要吗？ 答：是的。 问：你能向陪审团解释为什么这对你重要吗？ 答：首先，如果金融机构有能力购买 20%的黄金作为储备，那么这家机构的财务能力应该非常 好。 其次，在我的印象中，世界上很多银行，包括联邦储备银行，都把黄金作为储备，所以这听起来 很正规。 问：吴女士，您在喜马拉雅交易所开过账户吗？ 答：没有。 问：据你所知，喜马拉雅交易所内曾有喜币在你的名下或者你的账户里？ 答：没有。 问：你是否曾要求退还你的喜币配额资金？ 答：要求过。 问：大约什么时候提出的？ 答：在借款项目退款之后，大约在 2022 年 10 月。 问：你拿回了那笔钱吗？ 答：在近半年后拿回来的绝大部分。 问：你大约收回了多少钱？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 34 / 152页 答：大约 4500 美元。 问：你拿回了 5%的佣金吗？ 答：没有。 问：郭文贵有赔偿你损失的钱吗？ 答：没有。 问：吴女士，你在证词一开始就说你不再是郭文贵的追随者。是什么让你对这个运动产生了怀 疑？ 答：首先是 SEC 与 GTV 的和解声明。在 SEC宣布之前，郭文贵和他的助手从未提及此事。然 后是该诉讼的翻译。我拿到了很多截图，显示了很多事情。 例如，魏丽红开了 170 多个银行账户。我觉得很奇怪。这正常吗？我不知道。因为在那个时 候，我还是很信任郭文贵和这个组织的，但我就是觉得有些怪怪的。而在此之前，我已经感觉到 这个组织内言论不那么自由。人们不应该批评郭文贵和他周围的人，和他关系密切的人，说什么 做什么都应该小心。然后我就听说政府开始调查一些人，比如夏其东。而且他们也很不情愿地把 这些合同签还给我们，虽然这些合同里面有很多漏洞。我也不知道为什么。 所以一点一点地，我只是——他们还派人去那些批评郭文贵的人家门口和工作地点抗议，带着挑 衅性的图片和语言。有时会演变成暴力事件。有些人因此被送进了医院。此外，郭文贵还把志愿 者往死里用。我不知道为什么。时刻接时刻，事件接事件，从未停止。让你没时间去想别人，没 时间去接触别人。我听郭文贵自己在他的视频中说，一个志愿者因为压力过大被送进医院。但郭 文贵说过我们不应该像中共那样虐待人。我不知道为什么。大家只是志愿者，对吧。为什么这么 辛苦？ 还有喜币。 他们说，这将是世界上最安全的数字货币。有一天，他们说，数百万或数千万的喜 币消失了，不见了。无法找到，好吧。还有喜币的锁币。 之前他们答应我们这些把喜币存入著 名的数字货币机构的人，只要该机构已经持有我们的喜币至少六个月，我们就可以在任何时候赎 回我们的喜币，但这从没实现。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 35 / 152页 事实上，几个月后，我不记得具体时间了，郭文贵说需要把我们的喜币锁定至少三年，谁也不能 动。而在郭文贵被捕之前，一个铁血组的成员说，需要把我们的喜币锁至少十年。还有很多其他 的事情，一点一滴积累起来。 问：吴女士，回到你刚说过的几件事。一件事是喜币。让我们理解你最后所说的，什么是喜币锁 币？ 答：就是他们不想让人们从喜币里拿回自己的钱。这是我的理解。所以他们不想让你碰喜币。你 不能从中拿回任何钱。 问：您还提到了言论自由和抗议。你看过哪些抗议？ 答：我不喜欢看，只是听听他们怎么说。比如，抗议证监会。一个在加拿大经常批评郭文贵的 人，他们抗议了三次。每次 10天，还是 20天。我记不清了。他们使用了很多挑衅性的图片， 包括邻居、朋友、家人。 问：联盟是怎样说或者称呼被抗议的人？ 舒里克律师说：反对。问过也答过。 法官说：反对无效。证人可以回答。 答：你是指郭文贵怎么称呼他们吗？ 问：是的，郭文贵怎么称呼他们？ 答：中共间谍。 问：关于中共间谍的说法和这些抗议对你的怀疑有什么影响？ 舒里克律师说：反对，问过并回答过。 法官说：反对无效。证人可以回答。 答：为什么我们周围有这么多中共间谍，我没搞懂。我觉得这很荒谬。 问：吴女士，郭文贵是否说过自己是中共的目标？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 36 / 152页 答：说过。 问：他都说了些什么？ 答：他说他 -- 他说中共要杀他，说中共逮捕了他的家人，几乎要杀了他，但他逃脱了。他说中 共没收了他的财产、资产，诸如此类。 问：吴女士，如果郭文贵确实是中共目标，这会否改变您对投资项目的看法？ 答：不会。 问：会否改变您对爆料革命的看法？ 答：不会。 问：为什么不会？ 答：爆料革命只是一个骗局。我不认为它与中共有任何关系。另外，如果有人反中共，并不意味 着这个人可以诈骗别人。这是两码事。你不能利用反中共的名义来做违法的事。 问：你这话什么意思？ 答：比如说，你诈骗，现在你又说你为反中共骗钱。我实在无法理解。如果你反中共。你又骗 钱，你觉得你比中共好吗？ 问：吴女士，你的投资总体上是赚了还是赔了？ 答：亏了一些。 问：大约亏了多少？ 答：大约 15000 美元。 问：郭文贵个人有偿还你这 15000 美元吗？ 舒里克律师说：反对。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 37 / 152页 法官说：反对无效。证人可以回答。 答：没有。 问：你曾一对一地要求他这样做吗？ 答：没有。 问：你曾和他有过一对一的交流吗？ 答：没有。 问：吴女士，今天坐在这里，你仍然反中共吗？ 答：还反。 问：你还信任郭文贵吗？ 答：不信任。 问：为什么不？ 舒里克律师说：问过并回答过，法官大人。 法官说：反对无效。证人可以回答。 答：他就是个骗子，很会演戏和骗人，但我觉得他不诚实、不可靠、不可信，无论如何都不是一 个值得信任的好人。 费根森律师说：没有进一步的问题了。 法官说：交叉询问。 交叉询问 由辩方律师舒里克先生进行： 问：吴女士，你在中国出生，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 38 / 152页 答：是的。 问：你 2001 年来到美国？ 答：是的。 问：你有计算机科学的研究生学位，对吗？ 答：是的，硕士。 问：计算机科学硕士。所以您曾是一名计算机程序员？ 答：是的。 问：你现在退休了吗？ 答：我自己退休了。 问：很好。您什么时候退休的？ 答：2010 年。 问：你丈夫还在工作吗？ 答：是的。 问：他也是计算机程序员吗？ 答：是的。 问：他在哪里工作？ 答：一家医药公司。 问：好吧。我继续。 你说你第一次听说郭文贵是在 2018 年，对吧？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 39 / 152页 答：是的。 问：因为你在网上看过他的一些视频？ 答：是的。 问：是在油管上吗？ 答：是的。 问：记得你作证说，从 2020 年起，你几乎每天都会看郭先生的视频？ 答：从每周看一两次到每天看，不是一开始就每天看。 问：好，但到后来每天都看？ 答：是的。 问：可以说他在 2020 年的视频是反共的吗？ 答：他说了一些关于中共的坏话，仅此而已，还有一些中共内部的八卦。 问：对。你提到的八卦是，他揭露了他认为是中共的一些秘密，对吧？ 答：是的。 问：你在看郭先生的视频之前，你已经是反共的，对吧？ 答：当时我可能内心是反共的，但我没有意识到这一点。 问：你在这个时间段也做了一些关于中国共产党的研究，对吗？ 法官说：什么时间段？ 舒里克律师说：大约 2020 年，法官大人。 答：实际上在那之前，从我的家族史和经历，我已经注意到很多了。这就是为什么当我看郭文贵 的视频时，我觉得他说的有些是真的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 40 / 152页 问：你的家庭经历是基于你父母生病的事实，对吗？ 答：你是指我父母的疾病？ 问：是的。 答：不仅仅是这个。 问：嗯，我的问题是部分基于这个。 答：是的。 问：你觉得他们在中国生病时没有得到很好的待遇，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这就是你即使行动上没有表现出来，但内心也反对中共的部分原因，对吧？ 答：是的，部分原因。 问：另一部分原因是什么？ 答：我家的历史。 问：你说你家的历史，是指除你父母生病之外的事情吗？ 答：是的。 问：能告诉我们你指的是什么吗？ 答：我父亲年轻时在与中共的斗争中成了牺牲品。 问：好的。现在，当你开始参与这个运动时，你明白我所说的运动是什么意思吗？ 答：法治运动？ 问：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 41 / 152页 答：好。 问：当你开始参与这个运动时，你没想到你的参与会导致中共的垮台，对吗？ 答：郭文贵说会。 问：女士，我在问你的想法，你的信念。 答：如果能做到，当然好。如果不能，至少做点什么。 问：你相信你的参与会推翻中共吗？ 答：可能吧。 问：你相信法治运动可以推翻中共吗？ 答：可能吧。 问：好，合理。但你不一定期望它会推翻中共，对吗？ 答：任何事情都是可能的，所以谁知道呢。 问：我的问题是，你不一定期望会这样吗？ 法官说：问过并回答过。继续。 问：记得你告诉政府你参与是因为你认为这将有助于唤醒人们，对吗？ 答：目前是的。 问：帮助他们觉醒，了解中共的运作方式？ 答：至少让人们知道更多 问：当然。帮助他们了解真相，对吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 42 / 152页 问：现在你还有家人在中国吗？ 答：你是指直系亲属，不是亲戚？ 问：任何家人。 答：堂兄弟、叔叔，这类。 问：那你的丈夫呢，他在中国也有家人吗？ 答：是的。 问：你和他们有联系吗？你和他们保持联系吗？ 答：我丈夫的家人，实际上他们有方言我听不懂。他们的语言，我听不懂。他们有一些方言。 问：自从你 2001 年离开后，你有没有回过中国看望任何人？ 答：2001 年，有。 问：你什么时候回中国的？ 答：我回去过很多次。 问：你回去过很多次？ 答：是的。 问：我只是想了解一下。告诉我你什么时候回去过？ 答：几乎每年。 问：自 2001 年以来大约每年一次？ 答：是的。可能头两年没有，但之后每年都有。 问：那么在 2000 年，你至少去过一次？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 43 / 152页 答：2000 年？ 问：对不起，2020 年。 答：没有，因为新冠病毒。我是指新冠病毒之前。 问：新冠病毒之前。好，合理。在 2019 年，你至少回去过一次？ 答：是的。 问：是否超过一次？ 答：有时超过一次。 问：自从新冠病毒以来，你有回去过吗？ 答：自从？ 问：嗯哼。 答：我父亲去世了。我不想回去。 问：所以自从新冠疫情以来你没有回去过？ 答：是的。 问：为了准备今天的证词，你多次与政府律师和特工会面，对吗？ 答：几次。 问：几次？ 答：是的。 问：你记得多少次吗？ 答：我没数过。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 44 / 152页 问：那让我们列个清单看看。 你记得在 2022 年 11 月底与 FBI 进行过电话采访吗？ 答：2022 年，也许吧。我不记得具体时间。 问：你记得第一次与 FBI或司法部成员交谈是什么时候吗？ 答：我不记得，但有。 问：大约是 2022 年吗？ 答：是的，2022 年，我不记得时间。 问：2022 年底？ 答：你是指两次吗？ 问：我是指 2022 年底。 答：也许吧。 问：2024 年 1 月怎么样？ 答：发生了什么事？ 问：我问你是否与美国政府代表会面�� 答：也许吧。 问：今天早些时候质问你的费根森先生，通过Webex？ 答：我不记得是 1 月还是 2 月。不确定。 问：2024 年 4 月呢，你有没有与费根森先生进行面对面商谈？ 答：你是指在线上？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 45 / 152页 问：不，面对面的商谈。 答：面对面？ 问：都可以。 答：是的。 问：然后在 5 月中旬，5 月 17 日？ 答：5 月中旬，5 月 17 日？ 问：嗯哼。 答：面对面，亲自见面？ 问：女士，不管是哪种方式。我们就说任何形式的会议，无论是虚拟的—— 答：我只记得—— 问：让我说完。不管是亲自见面还是虚拟会议或电话。这就是我说的与政府的会面。 答：我不记得 5 月 17 日，没有。 问：你不记得 5 月与他们会面了吗？ 答：我在 5 月与费根森先生会面过，但我不记得具体时间，因为我们在 5 月 26 日会面，那是在 阵亡将士纪念日，所以我记得。 问：那是我的下一个问题。所以，你那时见过他。然后在 6 月 11 日又见过，对吧，两天前？ 答：今天是 13号？是的。 问：然后昨天又见过，为了准备证词？ 答：昨天？ 问：你昨天见过他吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 46 / 152页 答：说了句你好，那算见面吗？ 问：我认为这算见面。你说了句你好？ 答：是的。你见到某人说你好，这很正常。 问：很好。那总共是七次见面，对吗？ 答：我不知道。如果你说是七次，那就是七次。我没有数过。 问：不管怎样，你见过他多次，对吗？ 答：多次，不是，是几次。 问：好的。而且在你与他见面的时间段内，甚至之前，你向政府转发了很多电子邮件，对吗？ 答：几封，不是很多。 问：你认为大约有多少封？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你不记得，但那是几封，不是很多？ 答：你看，你不能提交很多。因为他们限制你能提交的大小和数量，所以绝对不是很多。 问：好的。你转发这些信息是为了帮助他们，对吗？ 答：帮助所有人。 问：你转发这些信息是为了帮助美国政府，对吗？ 费根森律师说：问过并回答过。 法官说：好吧，你从他说他到美国政府，你可以回答。 答：我认为是帮助所有人。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 47 / 152页 问：你是在帮助郭文贵吗？ 答：是的。 问：你是吗？ 答：只是让他停止做坏事。 问：好的，记下了。 现在，你在直接询问中作证说你在 GTV投资，对吗？ 答：通过 VOG。 问：你投资了 14000 美元，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是与魏丽红的投资，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这不是你第一次购买股票，对吗？ 答：我可以理解为魏丽红是某种经纪人，股票经纪人。如果是这样，这是第一次。 问：我的问题是不同的。这不是你第一次购买股票，对吗？ 你还有其他投资吗？你有其他股票投资，对吗？ 答：网上购买，是的。 问：你知道购买股票有一定的风险，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：每一项投资都有一些风险，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 48 / 152页 答：是的。 问：事实上，你记得郭先生说过投资总是有点风险，对吗？ 答：但他说他保证每一分钱都安全。 问：我希望你听我的问题。 费根森律师说：法官大人，她在回答问题。 舒里克律师说：这是非回应性的，法官大人。 法官说：请只回答问题，不要提供额外的问题。 舒里克律师说：我们能请法庭书记员读回问题吗？ （记录被读回） 法官说：你可以回答。 答：据我所记得，他说这话很晚了，不是在一开始。 问：但他说过，对吗，你记得他这么说过吗？ 答：他问过我们的投资。在那时他没有这么说。 问：好的。现在，你在做投资之前，从未直接与郭先生谈过你的投资，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你只与魏丽红交流过，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：或者与为她工作的人交流过，对吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 49 / 152页 问：事实上，你把 14000 美元汇给了魏女士，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：正如你在直接询问中作证，我相信你分几次交易汇款？ 答：是的。 问：这些交易是在 2020 年 5 月 21 日至 29 日之间，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：其中一些转账确实是到魏女士的个人银行账户，对吗？ 答：她给了我那个账户。 问：她给了你那个账户，你把钱汇给了她？ 答：是的。 问：还有一些是汇到 VOG 的银行账户，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：汇到 VOG银行账户的，清楚说明，是魏女士告诉你把钱汇到那里的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：郭先生没有提供关于汇款地点的具体说明，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所有的具体说明都是由魏女士提供的？ 答：但魏女士和其他很多人，他们制作了很多视频，在视频中说，这是郭文贵给我们这个机会， 所以我们应该永远感激郭文贵。而且郭文贵将来会为我们创造更多类似的投资机会。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，要求删除非回应性的回答。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 50 / 152页 法官说：再次提醒你仔细听问题，只回答被问到的内容。如果他问你，你最喜欢的颜色 是什么，你可以回答蓝色、红色、黄色。但你不会说，我最喜欢的花是玫瑰。不要添加额外的信 息。先前的回答被删除。 问：所有关于汇款地点的具体说明都是由魏丽红提供的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你记得 GTV私人配售结束的时间吗？ 答：六月。 问：六月二日？ 答：我不记得了。 问：我们能否请出示证据 Z9并转到 2020 年 6 月 2 日的条目。我相信是第六页。 吴女士，你看到显示在你面前的屏幕上的内容了吗？ 答：你是指图片？ 问：对。 答：是的。 问：你认出这是一个视频的截屏吗？ 答：郭文贵。 问：你认出这是一个视频的截屏吗？ 答：也许吧，是的。 问：你认出这是郭先生在 2020 年 6 月发布的 GTV私人配售结束时的视频吗？ 答：我不记得那个日期，但他确实做了这个视频。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 51 / 152页 问：但你记得这个视频？ 答：是的。 问：你记得看过这个视频？ 答：也许是同一个，也许是同一个。我不确定，但我记得。 问：你早些时候作证说在这个期间你经常看郭先生的视频，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以你记得看过这个视频。你相信你是在发布时看到的吗？ 答：你说是 6 月 2 日，但我不记得。我只记得是在 6 月。 问：女士，我不是在问具体日期。 我的问题是，你记得是在发布时看过这个视频吗？ 答：是的。 问：谢谢。我们可以把它拿下了。 你早些时候作证说你收回了你汇给魏丽红的 14000 美元中的 92%，对吗？ 答：从 SEC那里，是的。 问：我想回到魏丽红一会儿。 你能告诉我们魏丽红是谁吗？ 答：她是最早与郭文贵合作的人之一，也许是最早的，也许吧，我不确定，但据我了解，她是最 早与郭文贵合作的人之一。 问：是否有一段时间魏丽红与郭先生闹翻了？ 答：2021 年，我猜。我不记得具体时间。这就是为什么有那个香草山农场对凤凰农场的诉讼。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 52 / 152页 问：谢谢。我们稍后会谈到那里。所以你记得他们闹翻了？ 答：大约记得，不是确切记得。 问：再次强调，女士，我不是在问具体时间。我只是问你是否记得他们闹翻了？ 答：是的。 问：现在，我相信你刚开始谈到由此引发的诉讼，对吗？ 答：你是指由于闹翻引发的诉讼？ 问：是的，由闹翻引发的诉讼？ 答：是的，在这之后。 问：那是农场对魏丽红和她的农场提起的诉讼，对吗？ 答：那时魏丽红已经和郭文贵闹翻了，所以我不确定当时郭文贵是否还让她担任农场领导。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，要求删除非回应性的回答。 费根森律师说：法官大人，我认为她在试图非常认真地回答问题。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，答案与问题完全无关。 法官说：答案被删除。 问：诉讼是由农场对魏丽红的农场和魏丽红提起的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道山香农场，香草山农场，我相信你在直接询问中提到过，起诉魏丽红偷窃支持者放入 农场借款项目的资金，对吗？ 答：应该是。 问：是吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 53 / 152页 答：是的。 问：那场诉讼是 2021 年，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你记得那场诉讼在哪里吗？ 答：我认为是在德克萨斯州。 问：你为支持那场针对魏女士的诉讼提供了翻译服务，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那场诉讼的结果——撤回。 你知道那场诉讼的结果吗？ 答：不知道。 问：所以你不知道那场诉讼的结果是对魏女士的不在场判决？ 答：不知道，但我—— 费根森律师说：反对，法官大人。她说她不知道。 法官说：问过并回答过。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，我认为她还在回答过程中。这可能会唤起她的记忆。 费根森律师说：那不对。她说不知道。 法官说：答案是不知道。 问：你今天早些时候被费根森先生询问了一些政府附件，对吗？ 答：今天，没有。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 54 / 152页 问：你不记得在直接询问中作证并被展示那些电子表格吗？ 答：哦，你是指这里，是的。 问：是的，这里，今天刚刚几分钟前。好的。 你是否与香草山农场有协议，为那场针对魏女士的诉讼提供翻译服务？ 答：是的。 费根森律师说：法官大人，我们可以进行一个边栏讨论吗？ 法官说：好的。请上前。 （边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 费根森律师说：我不确定这个问题的方向，但我请求边栏的原因是，法官大人，这位证 人签署了一份与香草山农场的保密协议。我假设，但我只是想确认，舒里克先生不会暗示她因为 违反保密协议而被起诉或报复。我假设情况不是这样。我不知道我们要去哪里。 舒里克律师说：你假设得对。我不是这个意思。 法官说：好的。 （回到公开法庭上上；陪审团在场） 法官说：你可以继续。 由辩方律师舒里克先生进行： 问：所以你与香草山农场的协议是提供翻译服务，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：是为香草山农场对魏女士的诉讼提供翻译服务，对吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 55 / 152页 问：这就是为什么你能接触到今天早些时候提到的电子表格，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：现在，我们能否请出示政府证据 GXVN-12。我们能稍微上移或下移一点吗？ 可以了。谢谢。 吴女士，你认出这是你在几分钟前费根森先生问你问题时看的文件吗？ 答：是的。 问：我想让你注意第 17 行，费根森先生刚才让你注意到的阿布扎比的引用？ 答：是的。 问：你看到了吗？ 答：是的。 问：现在，你不知道是否真的有钱汇往阿布扎比，对吗？ 答：从那个截图来看，金额在那个截图上。 问：我的问题是，你自己不知道是否真的有钱汇往阿布扎比，对吗？ 答：我们只是做计算，所以我不知道。 问：对。你只是做翻译，对吗？ 答：这里是计算，计算数字。 问：好的。现在，阿布扎比旁边也有一个问号，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道为什么会有问号吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 56 / 152页 答：因为魏丽红没有给我们提供详细信息，只是提供了金额和目的地的截图。 问：所以你没有详细信息，我们也不知道是否真的有钱汇往阿布扎比，对吗？ 费根森律师说：对问题形式提出异议。 法官说：复合问题。请分开问。 问：所以你没有详细信息，对吗？ 答：至少我没有。我不知道其他人。 问：对。你没有详细信息，对吗？ 答：是的。 法官说：问过并回答过。 问：制作这个电子表格中的信息的整个目的是支持对魏女士的诉讼，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我们看过的其他电子表格也是为了支持对魏女士的诉讼，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：因为她被指控挪用资金，对吗？ 答：是的。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，我准备换个话题。如果我们打算 11:30结束，这可能是一个 好的停止点。 法官说：我们会到中午。 舒里克律师说：对不起。我没有意识到。 问：我们可以把它拿下。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 57 / 152页 现在，你今天早些时候作证说你是香草山香草山农场的成员，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你大约是什么时候加入香草山农场的？ 答：可能是 2020 年 5 月或 6 月。 问：那个农场位于纽约这儿，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在你 2020 年 5 月或 6 月加入时，你开始做志愿者工作，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你做了我们刚才谈到的翻译工作？ 答：一开始不是这个。 问：你一开始做什么工作？ 答：农场里有一个翻译小组，所以我加入了那个小组，做一些他们要求的新闻翻译。 问：还有其他类型的志愿者工作吗？ 答：修改其他人的文章。 问：还有其他人在做志愿者工作吗？ 答：你是指其他什么—— 问：其他农场成员在做志愿者工作吗？ 答：很多，很多人。 问：其他人做了什么样的志愿者工作？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 58 / 152页 答：视频。 问：视频录制？ 答：就像媒体。他们还有健身小组。我不知道他们具体做什么，就是健身，做一些锻炼，健身小 组，宗教小组，巡逻小组，就是巡逻，看看是否有人说了不好的话，可能会被延迟或被其他农场 开除。 法官说：那个小组叫什么名字？ 证人说：巡逻。 法官说：怎么拼写？ 证人说：P-A-T-R-O-L。 法官说：巡逻。 证人说：巡逻。 答：还有财务小组，法律小组，教育小组。 问：教育小组做什么？ 答：教育人们。 问：你能进一步解释吗？ 答：我不知道。我不知道那个小组具体做什么。我不知道。 问：还有其他的吗？ 答：写作，但写作不像其他小组，很多小组内部都有写作小组。 问：明白了。现在，如你在直接询问中作证，你给农场借款了，对吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 59 / 152页 问：那是在 2020 年 8 月？ 答：是的。 问：金额是 20000 美元，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：费根森先生向你展示了借款协议，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我们能否请出示借款协议 GXVN-39。 你作证说你不记得是在签署之前还是之后阅读的借款协议，对吗？ 答：我真的不记得了，因为当时很匆忙。我很久以前读过。 问：当然。但你不记得是之前还是之后读的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以你有可能在签署之前读过，对吗？ 法官说：不要让她猜测。 舒里克律师说：这是一个逻辑结论。 法官说：不要证实。 问：你还作证说你记得郭先生曾说过这些借款的收益会用于购买 GTV股票，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：现在你不记得他是在你签署这份协议之后说的吗？ 答：我不记得了，那是很久以前的事了。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 60 / 152页 问：现在，你是否记得郭先生说过通过借款计划借出的资金是用于农场的？ 答：他说利息是给农场的。我不知道这是什么意思，我记得是这样。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，要求删除非回应性的回答。 法官说：我认为关于利息的第一句话是回应性的，后半部分将被删除。 问：现在你记得告诉政府你理解农场可以用这笔钱投资任何它想投资的项目，对吗？ 答：夏其东这么说。 问：我的问题是，你记得告诉政府这是你的理解吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：好的。让我们看看是否能帮助你回忆。我们可以给当事人和证人展示 3620-10，第三页。 吴女士，如果你可以自己读一下或稍后读一下，不要出声，然后告诉我你读完了吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是否提醒你这是你告诉政府的事实？ 答：是的。 问：所以你确实告诉政府，你理解农场可以用这笔钱投资任何它想投资的项目，对吗？ 答：是的，但不是合同时间。 问：说到合同，我们回到合同。如果我们可以放大合同中的 1A部分，资金用途。 现在，这句话说，资金用途。这项协议下的借款收益是用于借款人的一般营运资本用途。你看到 了吗？ 答：是的。 问：根据这份协议，谁是借款人？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 61 / 152页 答：香草山 MOS农场。 问：我们可以把它拿下来，或只是缩小。保持展示，但缩小。如果我们可以转到利率部分，这里 说借款金额的年利率为 3％，在最终到期日全额支付。你看到了吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后如果我们可以放大最终到期日。它说，最终到期日是生效日期后的 36个月。你看到了 吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道到期日是指借款到期的时间吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以借款在到期日前不应支付，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你期望能获得借款的利息，对吗？ 答：因为当时有人在我申请退款时已经得到了 3％的利息。 舒里克律师说：请求删除非回应性的回答。 问：你不能告诉我其他人告诉你的事情。我在问你当时的理解。 法官说：支持。 答：我理解，所以我觉得不公平为什么别人有而我没有。 问：对不起。你可以大声点说吗？ 答：我理解。 问：你理解这是为了利息，对吗，农场借款是为了利息？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 62 / 152页 答：为什么不是我？ 问：这是我的问题。你期望获得利息吗？ 答：所以，我不想要它。 舒里克律师说：请求删除，法官大人。 问：我在问你在签署这份协议时是否期望赚取利息？ 答：其实，那时 3％让我惊讶，因为之前郭先生说是 6％。 舒里克律师说：再次请求删除，法官大人。 法官说：两个答案都被删除。我希望你仔细听问题，你可以读回问题，只回答所问的内 容。 （记录被读回） 答：不完全是。 问：女士，你在与政府会面时，记得告诉他们你对没有获得利息感到不满吗？ 答：不记得。 问：让我们看看能否帮你记起来。我们可以请展示—— 费根森律师说：反对评论，法官大人。 法官说：不要作证。问她是否有可能展示文件以帮助她记忆。 问：如果我们可以展示一个文件来帮助你记忆，这有可能吗？ 答：我不确定。 舒里克律师说：可以吗，法官大人？ 法官说：可以。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 63 / 152页 问：请展示 3620-10，第三页。我们在等待的同时，你的印象是其他人已经得到了利息，对吗？ 答：我知道一些，是的。 问：基于此，你期望得到利息吗？ 答：不。 问：你不期望得到利息？其他人得到了，但你不期望得到利息？ 法官说：问过并回答过。 问：现在，根据借款协议，借款金额和任何应计利息在到期日支付，对吗？ 费根森律师说：问过并回答过。 法官说：你可以回答这个问题。其实，不。我确实记得你问过这个问题，所以反对被支 持。 问：吴女士，你在到期日前寻求终止借款协议，对吗？ 答：是的，我寻求了。有人做到了，所以我寻求了。 问：事实上，你在到期日前终止了借款协议，对吗？ 答：是的，跟随例子。 问：基于此，你没有资格获得任何利息，对吗？我们刚刚读了合同，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：根据你的理解，基于你的提前终止，你没有资格获得利息？ 费根森律师说：只要不涉及法律结论，没有异议。 法官说：她的理解，但显然不是法律结论。你可以回答你的理解是什么。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 64 / 152页 答：我当时的理解是，当我申请退款时，我觉得这是非法的，所以我不再想要那 3％的非法利 息。 问：你在直接询问中作证说你没有得到 3％的利息，对吗？ 答：我说的是因为他们没有显示任何给我的意图，所以我没有得到，我也不想要。 （继续上页） 舒里克律师说：请求删除，法官大人。 费根森律师说：法官大人，我们也已经覆盖了这一点，所以我们可以移动—— 法官说：答案被删除。 由辩方律师舒里克先生进行： 问：现在你签署了一份借款协议的解除合同，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：事实上，农场退款给你，你收到了全部 20000 美元，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。现在我们刚刚审阅过的协议中没有任何地方说你会因为向农场借款 20000 美元而获 得 GTV股票，对吗？ 答：他们用 GTV股票来吸引我加入这个借款计划，所以是的，我明白合同中没有 GTV，但—— 问：合同中没有任何地方提到 GTV股票，对吗？ 答：所以这是一个骗局。 问：对。事实上，你还记得在一次与政府的会面中告诉政府，郭先生说农场资金是用于农场的， 不是 GTV 的，对吗？——抱歉。撤回。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 65 / 152页 你记得在一次与政府的会面中告诉他们，郭先生说农场借款资金是用于农场的—— 费根森律师说：我认为已经问过并回答过了。 问：——而不是用于 GTV。 费根森律师说：我认为已经问过并回答过了。 法官说：我允许她回答这个问题。 答：不是在合同时间；他们后来才这么说。 问：我的问题是：你记得告诉政府这是你当时的理解吗？ 答：我告诉了政府，但不是在那个时间，我的意思是，我应该告诉政府他们是在合同之后才这么 说的，所以—— 问：那不是你告诉政府的，对吗？ 法官说：她已经证实了她告诉了政府什么。 答：因为政府没有问这个。 舒里克律师说：没有问题了，法官大人。 费根森律师说：那么他只是在和证人争论，所以—— 法官说：继续。 问：现在你作证说你通过一家名为 Wonder Invest 的公司投资，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那家公司是你丈夫创建的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在进行农场借款之前是否与丈夫讨论过？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 66 / 152页 答：是的。 问：你的丈夫审阅过合同吗？ 答：Wonder Invest当时是我的公司。 问：女士，我的问题是：你的丈夫是否审阅过合同？ 答：这是我的合同，为什么我要我丈夫审阅合同？我不理解这个问题。 问：这是一个简单的问题。他要么审阅了，要么没有审阅。所以我的问题是：他当时审阅了吗？ 答：我亲自告诉了他。他没有审阅，但我告诉了他。 问：好的。但你告诉了他。 答：是的。 问：好的。现在你作证说——撤回。 你实际上在第一次向政府投诉之前就收到了农场借款的退款，对吗？ 答：是的。我不记得我向政府投诉的时间。可能是的。 舒里克律师说：好的。现在我想简短地回到 GX VN39。如果我们能到这个文件结尾的 附录。 向下滚动，但不包括最后一页。再往下一个，请。 就这样。 由辩方律师舒里克先生进行： 问：现在你记得费根森先生向你展示过这个文件吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。费根森先生指出，借款协议在 2021 年 11 月由农场代表签署，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 67 / 152页 答：是的。 问：这个附录也是在同一时间由你签署的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：大约三天后。 答：是的。 问：对。 舒里克律师说：我们回到附录的第一页，好吗？ 问：你在签署第一个借款合同一年多后签署了这个附录，你作证说你也没有审阅这个附录？ 答：几乎没有。 问：所以你确实在某种程度上审阅了它。 答：我只是审阅了我应该填写的地方——例如，我的名字，时间。 问：好的。你审阅了它，并且实际上包括了一份——我们不会展示这个，但你包括了一份你的驾 照复印件，对吗？ 答：他们要求的。 问：当然。这是要求的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。所以你有时间填写并复印你的驾照。现在你是通过电子邮件发送回去的吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，反对证实。如果他有问题，可以直接问。 法官说：我在等待问题。 问：问题是：你通过电子邮件发回去这个文件吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 68 / 152页 答：我不记得了。可能是发给 G 服务志愿者。 法官说：那是什么，G 服务志愿者？ 证人说：哦，抱歉。G 系列，G 系列。很多 G，GTV，G Fashion，G-Clubs，都是一起 的，G 系列。 法官说：请继续。 问：所以有可能你把这个硬拷贝交给了另一个人？ 答：没有。 法官说：不要问她什么可能。问她实际发生了什么。 问：你记得你是否这样做了？你是否将硬拷贝交给另一个人？ 答：不是交，不是手交。 问：那你是如何传送的，女士？ 费根森律师说：问过并回答过。 舒里克律师说：只是想了解它是如何传送回去的。 法官说：你已经问过问题了。 问：那么你的证词是，在签署这个附录后你没有更仔细地审阅它？ 答：没有。 问：你从未审阅过它。 答：我审阅了一些。 问：好的。 答：只是 3%的部分，像这样。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 69 / 152页 问：现在你作证说，在最初的借款协议方面你有一些时间压力。对于这个附录你没有任何时间压 力，对吗？ 答：有。 问：有？ 答：我的家庭问题。我的家庭问题。 问：所以不是郭先生对你施加了任何时间压力，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：对吧？农场里没有任何人对你施加时间压力，对吗？ 答：他们要求在几天内返回。 问：当然。你认为几天时间足够审阅一个四页的合同吗？ 答：如果仔细，一字一句地审阅，不够。 问：四天不足以审阅一个四页的合同？ 费根森律师说：问过并回答过。 法官说：问过并回答过，不要作证。 舒里克律师说：好的。好的。 问：根据你的说法，你何时首次详细审阅借款协议或附录？ 答：你能再说一遍吗？ 问：当然。 法官说：你是问她何时对合同进行了全面审阅？ 舒里克律师说：是的，法官大人。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 70 / 152页 法官说：以及附录？ 舒里克律师说：正确，法官大人。 法官说：好的。继续。 答：你是说仔细审阅这个？ 问：对。这是问题。 答：不是逐字逐句的。也许只是一些。 舒里克律师说：请求删除，法官大人。 法官说：答案被删除。问题是何时。 证人说：何时。我不记得了。 问：好的。你是否在与检察官会面之前仔细审阅过它？ 答：是的。 问：大约是什么时候？ 答：大约在我申请退款的时候。 问：大约在你计划申请退款的时候，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。你对里面的内容感到惊讶吗？ 答：不完全是。 问：对，不是很惊讶，对吗？ 答：因为我——
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 71 / 152页 费根森律师说：法官大人—— 答：——很多人已经说过一些关于这个合同的事情了。 舒里克律师说：好的。我会继续。 现在，我要换个话题，法官大人。现在时间可以吗还是我们继续？ 法官说：好的，是的。现在时间是 11:55。 所以你们可以休息一下。我们将于 12:30返回。 记住不要在自己之间或与任何其他人讨论这个案子。不要允许任何人在你们面前讨论这个案子。 不要阅读、观看或听取任何与本次审判主题有关的来源的信息。 你们可以离开了。不要讨论你的证词。 （陪审团不在场；证人不在场） 法官说：你们可以就座。 在我们 12:30返回之前，双方还有什么想要提出的吗？ 费根森律师说：政府没有。 舒里克律师说：辩方没有，法官大人。 法官说：好的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 72 / 152页 庭审下午场 中午 12:30 法官说：请让陪审员进来。 （陪审团入场） 法官说：请就座。 你可以继续交叉询问。 请记住，女士，你仍在宣誓之下。 证人说：是的。 舒里克律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 由舒里克律师进行询问： 问：我想简要谈谈喜币。 你作证说你在 2021 年 4 月购买了喜币，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你购买了价值 4500 美元的喜币，对吗？ 答：你是说总额吗？ 问：是的。 答：不止这些。 问：好的，总共是多少？ 答：加上 5%的佣金，还有 35 其他费用。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 73 / 152页 问：抱歉，你能大声一点吗？加上什么？ 答：喜币费用，加上 5%的佣金，还有 35 其他费用。 问：对。我的问题只是你在喜币上花了多少钱。是超过 4500 美元还是 4500 美元？ 答：我有 44,500，对吗？那么喜币花了 4,450 美元。 问：对。好的。所以你花了——我理解你是花了 4500 美元在喜币上吗？ 答：是的，仅限于喜币。 问：对。好的。这就是我的问题。 舒里克律师说：好的。如果我们可以请展示政府附件 VN37。 问：吴女士，我相信这是费根森先生在直接询问中展示给你的附件。 好的。你记得费根森先生早些时候问过你关于这个文件的一些问题吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。这个文件在第一页反映你购买了 44,500个硬币，对吗？ 答：是的。 法官说：如果你把麦克风拉近你的嘴。 证人说：好的。 法官说：你可以拉动它，你可以移动它。 证人说：是的。 问：好的。然后费根森先生问你一些关于这个文件的问题，对吗？ 答：关于这个合同的理解？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 74 / 152页 问：是的。 答：是的。 问：好的。你在签署时的理解是，喜币部分是因为你为农场的志愿工作而提供给你的吗？ 答：他们已经把它加到了 44,500这个数字里。 问：对。我的问题有点不同。我的问题是：你理解你被提供购买这么多喜币的机会部分是基于你 为农场的志愿工作吗？ 答：不，我不理解这个。我从未听说过。 问：你不理解？你作证时提到有一个公式决定了你分配的硬币数量，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那个公式包括你为农场或联盟做了多少志愿工作吗？ 答：对于农场来说，那个公式不包括志愿工作，喜币。我不知道怎么称呼它。 问：好的。你理解的公式包括了什么？ 答：那个公式计算的数字，当时，我需要支付这喜币的费用，G 系列的志愿者告诉我应该支付多 少钱，并告诉我应该有多少喜币。 问：好的。在你与志愿者的对话中，他们是否询问过你的志愿工作？ 答：问我的志愿工作？为了什么？我是说—— 问：如果我说错了，你可以纠正我，但我的理解是你与志愿者讨论了喜币的分配。我到目前为止 是否正确？ 答：不是讨论；只是给我发了个信息，让我知道。 问：好的。所以是通过 Discord吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 75 / 152页 答：是的。 问：好的。我就称之为讨论，可以吗？ 答：可以。 问：好的。所以在那次 Discord讨论中，志愿者提到了你为农场做的志愿工作吗？ 答：没有。 问：好的。你记得告诉政府你理解你的志愿工作是硬币分配公式的一部分吗？ 答：不记得。 问：你不记得了？ 答：你是说我告诉政府我为喜币做志愿工作？ 问：是的。你不记得告诉政府了。 答：我——我不记得了。 问：好的。也许如果我给你看一份文件会有帮助？ 舒里克律师说：我们能展示 3620-17吗？并请突出相关部分。 证人说：哦，我记得这个。 问：这是否刷新了你的记忆，你的志愿工作是确定你的喜币分配公式的一部分？ 答：是的。 问：好的。很好。我们可以放下这个。 好的。所以你当时理解获得喜币分配是一种机会或奖励你的志愿工作，对吗？ 答：我是在 G 系列志愿者给我数字之后才知道的。当时我对这个数字感到很奇怪，后来有人告 诉我这是给你的奖励。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 76 / 152页 问：这是你的作证吗，在你做志愿者工作的时候不明白，你是后来才知道的？只是想澄清一下。 费根森律师说: 我认为错误陈述了证词，但是 法官说：你可以回答 答：我想当我收到 Discord 信息时，我有些疑惑，我只是跟志愿者核实了数字，他们说所有的都 是正确的，然后我就付了款，但是后来，我问了其他人，他们说，这是给你的奖励 问：所以他们用了“奖励”这个词，对吗？ 答：是的。付款后，我理解了这一点。 问：好的。但这是你理解的，它是作为你的一部分工作的奖励而给你的利益，对吗？ 费根森律师说：反对形式。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：是的。 问：好的。当你签署——对不起。 舒里克律师说：乔治，我们能再展示 37吗？ 问：你签署这份文件时，你读过这份文件吗？ 答：已经说了，当时我已经想要退款，所以我没怎么注意，但我需要签署；我需要先签署这个。 问：好的。所以你也没有读这份文件。 答：不完全是。 问：好的。你的证词是，当你签署这份文件时，你已经决定要离开这个运动，对吗？你感到不舒 服。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 77 / 152页 答：那时我还没有决定要离开这个运动，因为我认为即使我拿回了所有的钱，我也可以留在这个 组织，对吗？所以那时我还没有决定是否离开。那是 2021 年。 问：所以你可能——如果你拿回了所有的钱，你可能会留在这个运动中，对吗？ 费根森律师说：这需要猜测。 舒里克律师说：我相信这就是她刚刚所说的，法官大人。 法官说：我认为你可以回答。继续。 答：那时我还没有做出最终决定。最终决定是在 2022 年做出的。 问：对。但这就是你在考虑的。你在考虑即使拿回了钱也会留在这个运动中，对吗？ 答：是的。有些人，他们没有付任何钱，但仍然在这个组织中。 问：对。好的。你是否在与检察官会面之前读过这份文件？ 答：你是说——你能重复一下吗？ 问：当然。你是否在与检察官会面之前读过这份文件，在你屏幕上的这份文件？ 答：是的。 问：所以你确实在某个时间点读了这份文件。 答：是的，某个时间点，不是全部。 问：什么时候？ 答：当我申请退款时。 问：好的。我相信你作证说你在申请退款时读了你的农场借款协议，对吗？ 答：不是全部，部分。 问：有多少农场借款协议？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 78 / 152页 答：我是说这份合同，有几页，对吧？它很长。所以—— 问：我们来数一下。有多少页？如果我们可以翻页。两页。三页。四页。五页。六页。 答：是的。 问：五页和一个签名页。 答：是的。 问：我数得对吗？ 答：是的。 问：是的？好的。你作为农场的翻译员，翻译文件对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你将文件从中文翻译成英文？ 答：英文翻译成中文，中文翻译成英文。 问：对，两种方式？ 答：对。 问：对。很合理。对于一份五页的文件，你需要多长时间来翻译？ 答：这里有很多术语，金融或法律术语。我不想翻译。当时我已经考虑要离开了，所以为什么要 花很多时间在这上面？ 问：当你为香草山翻译关于魏丽红诉讼的文件时——你记得我们今天早些时候讨论过这个吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。现在公平地说，那些材料中有很多法律术语吗？ 答：实际上，助理做了很多这部分的工作。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 79 / 152页 问：好的。 答：我只是——只是做一些普通的翻译和一些数字计算。 问：好的。所以你听起来——这是否公平地说，你的翻译技能有限？ 答：不算有限。我没有时间。我没有很多时间。助理总是熬夜做这些，之后，之后—— 问：对不起。继续。 答：之后，她感觉很累，她就让我帮她做一些事情，所以—— 问：好的。你作证说你当时没有就业，对吗？在签署这份协议时，你已经退休了？ 答：重要吗，退休？你是说我自愿退休？ 问：是的。 答：是的。 问：好的。所以你的证词是你已经退休了，但你没有时间阅读一份五页的文件？ 答：当时我说我有家庭问题。 问： 好的。现在有人——撤回。没有人强迫你快速签署这份文件，对吧？ 答： 是的。 问： 我相信你之前作证说你在几周甚至几个月后才签署了这份文件，对吗？ 答： 几个月，因为几个月后，他们才给我们这份合同。 问： 但你已经把钱汇出去了，对吗？ 答： 那时没有任何东西；没有合同，没有协议，什么都没有。 问： 对。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 80 / 152页 答： 是的。 问： 所以你有机会审查协议，没有必要急于把钱汇入，对吗，因为钱已经汇出了？ 答： 钱已经付了。 问： 对。 答： 是的。 问： 所以你有时间审查协议，没有吗？ 答： 如果我不签字，我能拿回我的钱吗？ 问： 女士，你能试着回答我的问题吗？ 答： 好的，是的。审查？是的？ 问： 你有时间，对吗？ 答： 是的。 问： 好的。这就是我想问的全部内容。现在如你之前所作证的，你曾经——有一次——不好意 思——你要求退款，对吗，购买喜币？ 答： 是的。 问： 对。而且你几次跟进一个义工以获得退款，对吗？ 答： 是的。 问： 那大约是在 2023 年 1 月，对吗？ 答： 1 月？你的意思是我拿到退款了吗？ 问： 不。是你跟进一个志愿者。时间是，你跟进志愿者大约在 2023 年 1 月。 答： 我还是不明白。2023 年 1 月。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 81 / 152页 问： 你记得你什么时候拿到退款吗？ 答： 我记得应该是 3 月。 问： 你拿到了退款，对吧，拿回了钱？ 答： 一部分。 问： 好的。你指的是你没有拿回大约 200 美元的费用，对吗？ 答： 5%的佣金费和—— 问： 对。但除了 5%的佣金费，你拿回了其他所有的钱，对吗？ 答： 只是喜币的部分。你刚开始就让我计算。 问： 对。好的。现在你提到你通过Wonder Invest投资，对吗？你作证过这点？ 答： 不是为了喜币。 问： 好的。但是你确实通过它投资了农场和 GTV吗？你通过——进行了农场借款？ 答： VOG，对吗？你是说 VOG？有一次转账是通过Wonder Invest。 问： 好的。还有农场借款？ 答： 是的。 问： 好的。那么Wonder Invest 还投资了其他除了——我想你称之为 G 系列投资的东西吗？ 答： 你问的是我的公司，对吗？可以吗？ 问： 对。我没问题。 答： 好的。是的。 问： 我的意思是：它还投资了其他东西吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 82 / 152页 答： 我的公司？ 问： 是的。 答： 是的。 问： 好的。是什么？ 答： 股票。 问： 什么样的股票？ 答： 只是一些—— 问： 就像在股票交易所上的股票？ 答： 是的，是的，只是市场上的股票。 问： 什么样的投资，什么样的股票？ 答： 什么样的股票？你是说哪个领域，什么领域？ 问： 对。那我们试试这个：那些其他投资价值多少？ 答： 总共？ 问： 是的。 答： 包括已经卖掉的？ 问： 为什么不—— 费根森律师说： 法官大人，我只是质疑相关性。 法官说： 你是问她目前的投资组合价值吗？ 舒里克律师说： 法官大人，她作证说她通过这家公司投资，所以我只是想搞清楚这家公 司还投资了什么。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 83 / 152页 费根森律师说： 只是质疑相关性。 法官说： 你可以问这个问题。 答： 我不记得了。我——只是—— 问： 好的。 答： 你想要一个声明？我不能—— 问： 女士，我只是问你还记得投资了什么。 费根森律师说： 她说她不记得了。 法官说： 她不记得了。继续。 问： 现在你作证说这是你的公司，但你不是也在直接询问中作证说你丈夫给了你这家公司只是 为了玩玩吗？ 答： 是的。 问： 好的。那么大约有多少是让你用来玩的？ 答： 你问的是同样的问题，就像有多少股票，对吗？ 问： 不。 费根森律师说： 质疑相关性，法官大人。 法官说： 你是问她丈夫给了她多少钱用来玩吗？ 舒里克律师说： 嗯，这个实体中资产和现金的价值是多少，她可以用来玩；这是我的问 题。 法官说： 你可以回答。 答： 只是公司本身，账户。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 84 / 152页 问： 好的。你不能给我一个具体的金额，对吗？ 答： 给你一个金额？ 问： 金额。一个具体的金额。你明白我的意思吗？ 答： 我明白。这只是公司的银行账户。只是这个账户。就像你开了一个账户，然后你有了这个 账户。 问： 当然。但是你不会告诉我具体的金额，但是这个账户—— 费根森律师说： 反对。 法官说： 所以不要作证。只提问。 舒里克律师说： 当然。好的。我们继续。 问： 现在费根森律师问了你一些关于你是否知道你在喜马拉雅交易所上有喜币的问题。你记得 吗？ 答： 我——我听不清你整个句子。你能再说一遍吗。只是，我—— 问： 是的。没问题。所以你之前在直接询问中和费根森律师谈到， 答： 嗯哼 问： 他问你是否知道你的喜币是否曾在喜马拉雅交易所上。你记得吗？ 答： 是的。 问： 好的。你说不记得，对吗？ 答： 是的。我没有账户。 问： 好的。你检查过，对吗？ 答： 检查什么？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 85 / 152页 问： 女士，我刚才的问题是你是否检查过你的喜币是否在喜马拉雅交易所上。 费根森律师说： 已问及已答。 舒里克律师说： 她没有回答。 法官说： 你可以回答。 答： 你是说检查？ 法官说： 不。他问的是你是否检查过；你是否询问过，是否查过。 证人说： 我没有账户。我去哪儿查？ 问： 所以答案是你没有查过，对吗？ 答： 我没有地方查。我不知道——问谁。 问： 你打电话给任何人了吗？ 答： 我问了在那工作的义工，他们说他们不知道。 问： 好的。你曾经卖过任何喜币吗？ 答： 我手里没有喜币。我怎么卖？我手里没有。我不能控制它。我怎么卖任何东西？ 问： 嗯，这就是问题。所以答案是没有。 答： 好的。 法官说： 好的。所以不要告诉她答案应该是什么。你提问，她回答；你不要作证，她不 要提问。 舒里克律师说： 当然。 问： 让我们谈谈你的 G-Clubs会员。你第一次了解 G-Clubs是从 G-Clubs 的发布视频中吗？ 答： 我从郭文贵的视频中了解了 G-Clubs。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 86 / 152页 问： 从他——现在你记得——不好意思。你记得看过 G-Clubs 的发布视频吗？ 答： 郭文贵在抽烟，那个？ 问： 你知道我说的发布视频是什么意思吗？ 答： 是的。 问： 好的。你认为我是什么意思？ 答： 我只记得他在那个视频里抽烟。那个？ 舒里克律师说： 申请删除为无关回答。 法官说： 不。她是在问你是不是指的是一个郭先生在抽烟的视频。 舒里克律师说： 那我们干脆把视频放出来吧。GX C148-V1。请到时间戳 3:28。我们只 播放几秒钟。 费根森律师说： 我想，法官大人，舒里克先生可能是在放 GX C9。我可能听错了，但 我认为这是那个证据。 法官说： 好吧，你可以和他商量。 （律师讨论） 舒里克律师说： 法官大人，我们可以上前讨论吗？ 法官说： 当然。 (边栏讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场) 舒里克律师说：法官大人，我们想记录在案，3500 文件显示证人至少在一次，可能更多 次，与政府见面时使用了翻译员，而且她似乎在理解问题、直接提问方面仍有困难。所以我们想 要求一名翻译员。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 87 / 152页 费根森律师说：我从未在与她的交流中使用过翻译。我在电话中有一名备用翻译，因为 我们在第一次与某人交谈时，不知道他们的英语水平。 法官说：所以是否有任何代理人，无论是你还是其他人，使用过翻译？ 费根森律师说：据我所知，没有。 法官说：在我看来，她非常聪明，英语流利。虽然有些断断续续，但我感觉她理解你所 说的每一个词。而且她在对答上很出色。 舒里克律师说：嗯，我不得不同意。我认为我们不得不多次改写问题以便让她理解。法 官大人，你已经多次把她的证词作为不回应问题而打断。要么是她故意不回应问题，要么是她不 理解。 法官说：她是反对你的客户，她想让全世界知道她的想法。所以是的，她可能在抵制 你，但这不是语言问题。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，我认为，您知道—— 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我认为在某个时候，她被问到一个关于她何时看到某个文件 的问题，她的回答表明她认为是文件实际创建的时间，而不是她看到它的时间。我们只是建议， 因为直接问话更流畅，因为她有准备，所以在交叉询问时，她似乎不太理解术语或问题。而且， 您知道，她可以随意反驳。她非常有趣，这点我承认。 法官说：她非常聪明，如果你不理解问题，是无法聪明地回答的。 施洛夫律师说：好吧—— 舒里克律师说：或者通过假装不理解问题来聪明应对。 法官说：很有可能，但我并不觉得她有语言问题。我认为她对你的客户有意见，她在让 你知道。你必须要灵活应对，这就是处理问题的方式。 （回到公开法庭） 由辩方舒里克律师继续询问：
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 88 / 152页 问：好吧，我们会给你播放一个视频，你只需告诉我你是否认得，好吗？ 答：好的。 问：如果你不——吴女士，如果你不理解我使用的某个词或短语，请随时告诉我，我可以重新表 述，好吗？ 答：好的。 （播放视频，仅供证人观看） 问：好吧，你认得这是 G-Clubs 的启动视频吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：好吧，当时你经常观看郭先生的直播，对吗？ 答：太多了，我不记得每一个。 问：是的，我明白。所以你后来购买了 G-Clubs会员，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那么你是在观看这个视频后购买 G-Clubs会员的吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：如果你没有看这个视频，你还会购买吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。 法官说：反对成立。如果她不记得，那她怎么能回答这个后续问题？ 问：你是如何第一次听说 G-Clubs 的？ 答：郭文贵说的。 问：什么时候？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 89 / 152页 答：我不记得了。 问：你大概记得是什么时候吗？ 答：在游艇上。 问：不，我是指时间。 答：我不记得了。 问：你认为你向 G-Clubs支付了 1万美元吗？ 答：是的。 问：撤回。你是如何知道要向哪里支付这 1万美元来购买 G-Clubs 的？ 答：你是怎么知道的？ 问：是的。你是如何知道要向哪里支付这 1万美元来购买 G-Clubs 的？ 答：GClub.com？ 问：所以你去了这个网站？ 答：是的，农场告诉我们这么做的。 问：好吧，你在网站上注册了吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的，你收到一个会员号码，对吗？ 答：你是指在线号码，对吗？ 问：一个会员号码，对的。 答：好吧，是的，在线号码。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 90 / 152页 问：你记得你是在看 G-Clubs视频之前还是之后收到的吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：好吧。现在你说过 G-Clubs没有给你任何福利，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：但你确实有可能在 G Fashion 上获得折扣，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：但你不喜欢他们的东西。 答：是的。 问：你有没有询问过 G-Clubs是否会增加其他福利？ 答：有的。 问：好吧，告诉我关于这件事。 答：我给他们写了邮件。 问：你有没有把那封邮件提供给政府？ 答：没有。我删了，因为有一次我的电脑出了问题。我不知道发生了什么，一些东西就消失了。 问：当然，是被删掉了。 答：是的。 问：除了你刚才提到的那封邮件，你有没有通过其他方式询问他们是否会增加其他福利？ 答：我和农场的成员谈过这个问题。 问：好吧，但我的问题是：你有没有和 G-Clubs 的任何人谈过，或者尝试联系过 G-Clubs 的任 何人？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 91 / 152页 答：没有。 问：好的。现在 G-Clubs 的一个福利不是 G Talks抽奖活动吗？ 答：这些福利不太有用。 问：你参加过 G Talks抽奖活动吗？ 答：一次。 问：只有一次？ 答：是的。因为有人告诉我一些事情—— 问：当然，没有问题需要回答。 答：好的。 舒里克律师说：好的。如果我们能请把 GX C148-TX调出来，也在证据中。 请翻到第 5页。 问：你能看到显示在你面前屏幕上的文件吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。现在我要读这段文字。你告诉我是否正确，好吗？这段文字来自 G-Clubs 的发布视 频。根据审查—— 费根森律师说：他在作证。他刚才说这是 G-Clubs 的启动视频。她从未说过。 法官说：证人没有表示她记得 G-Clubs 的启动视频。 舒里克律师说：我只是把这个展示给她，并读给她听，看是否能让她回忆起来。 法官说：那么请上前。 （边栏讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场)
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 92 / 152页 法官说：所以她不记得是否看过启动视频。如果你想让她回忆起来，首先你应该问，有 没有什么可以帮助她回忆，然后你应该把那个东西展示给她看，但你不能读出内容；你应该让她 读，然后问，这是否能帮助你回忆起来。 舒里克律师说：这个文件是证据，法官大人。 法官说：没错，但当你要让某人回忆时，你不能读出文件内容。你必须先把文件展示给 她，然后问她，这是否能帮助你回忆起来。 费根森律师说：我只是——我的反对是他声明这是启动视频，而她从未证实过这个。她 不记得看过这个视频。 舒里克律师说：费根森先生说—— 法官说：启动视频是证据。所以你试图弄清她是否看过，以及她是否听到这些警告。你 是要弄清这些，对吗？ 舒里克律师说：当然。 法官说：所以首先你必须确认她对看过这个视频有些记忆。她说她不记得了。所以也许 你可以唤起她的记忆。唤起记忆的方法是展示某些东西，无论那是什么东西，仅仅展示给她看并 问她。 舒里克律师说：乐意这么做。乐意这么做。 法官说：例如，你可以在没有声音的情况下给她看视频，问她是否记得看过这个。 舒里克律师说：那实际上就是那个视频，法官大人，是启动视频的开头部分。 法官说：那是我们在读的一个文件，我建议那是不对的。 舒里克律师说：我指的是之前的证据，法官大人，上面有中文和英文，以及音频录音。 那实际上是启动视频。但我很乐意接受法庭的观点。我很乐意唤起她的记忆。 法官说：好的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 93 / 152页 （回到公开法庭） 由辩方舒里克律师继续询问： 问：现在，吴女士，你之前作证时说过，你不记得是否看过 G-Clubs 的启动视频，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。我不记得了。 问：好吧。如果我给你看这个文件，能帮助你回忆起来吗？ 答：不能。 问：所以没有什么我可以展示给你可以帮助你回忆起来；你确定在没有看过的情况下知道这一点 吗？ 费根森律师说：反对。 法官说：反对成立。是否有某些东西可以帮助你回忆起来？这才是问题。 证人说：对于那个视频，没有。 法官说：继续。 由辩方舒里克律师继续询问： 问：女士，你的记忆力有问题吗？ 答：我不这么认为。 问：好的。现在，费根森先生问你一些关于郭文贵被中共盯上的问题。你还记得吗？ 答：记得。 问：好吧。你说你不认为郭文贵参与的项目与中共有关。你记得吗？ 答：记得。 舒里克律师说：好的。我们可以调出 DX Stip 1。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 94 / 152页 问：现在我要读给你这个文件，你告诉我是否改变了你的想法—— 答：好的。 问：——关于你刚才回答的问题。 “美国和被告郭文贵通过其代理律师一致同意并达成如下协议： “1. 联邦调查局（FBI）已经调查了在中华人民共和国政府（‘中国政府’）指挥下开展的国 际行动，称为‘猎狐行动’，以胁迫在美国和其他地方的个人返回中国接受中国政府提出的指控或 达成财务和解。 “2. 2017 年，美国执法机构评估郭文贵是中国遣返努力的最高优先级。 “3. 2017 年，美国执法机构收到信息称中国官员正在支付和提供食品和标志给抗议郭文贵的示威 者。 “4. 2018 年，美国执法机构收到信息称中国政府在中国成立了一个特别调查小组，负责管理对郭 文贵的调查和行动。” 现在我们可以翻到下一页。 “5. 为了实现猎狐行动的一些目标，2017 年，中国政府指派了一个特别指定的行动小组 （‘小组’），通过使用互动计算机服务和电子通讯系统来诋毁和骚扰包括郭文贵在内的个人。” 现在请我们翻到第 6段。 “6. 自郭文贵逃离中华人民共和国以来，中华人民共和国政府一直在寻求将他遣返回国接 受审判，并采取了多种方法以实现对郭文贵的抓捕或逮捕。2017 年 5 月，中华人民共和国政府 派出了四名未申报的国家安全部（“MSS”）特工前往美国，试图在“猎狐行动”中强迫郭文贵回 国。美国政府破坏了中华人民共和国政府强制遣返郭文贵的努力，郭文贵继续留在美国。” 你看到了吗，女士？ 答：是的。是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 95 / 152页 问：你仍然认为郭文贵的项目与反对中共无关吗？ 答：不完全是。我认为这没有任何证明郭文贵反对中共的证据。我不这么认为。 舒里克律师说：目前没有进一步的问题，法官大人。 法官说：重新询问？ 费根森律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 洛夫特斯女士，你能调出 DX Stip 1吗，如果你有的话。 重新询问 由检方费根森律师提问： 问：在我们等待时，吴女士，关于刚才读给你的协议，你能向陪审团解释你说的这与郭文贵反对 中共无关是什么意思吗？ 舒里克律师说：反对。她刚才解释过了。 法官说：我不确定那是不是她的确切答案。你可以请她进一步解释答案，但我不知道， 你的描述是否正确。 费根森律师说：明白，法官大人。 问：吴女士，你能向陪审团解释你的答案吗？ 答：猎狐行动，这个行动，追捕了许多人。实际上，并不是所有在名单上的人都是好人。我—— 据我所知，猎狐行动想要很多与中共官员勾结以赚取巨额财富，然后这些人带着钱逃到国外的 人，所以这个行动包括了这些人中的一部分，而据我网上搜索的—— 舒里克律师说：法官大人，反对。 法官说：反对无效。你可以继续。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 96 / 152页 答：——我发现郭文贵属于这一类，他在中国犯了经济罪。我没有发现关于郭文贵在中国有政治 原因的事。所以我——我认为那些段落没有证明郭文贵反对中共。 问：吴女士，你作证说你在 2018 年第一次听说郭文贵，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你之前听说过他吗？ 答：没有。 问：你之前听说过他是中共的反对者吗？ 答：没有。 问：好的。吴女士，你被问到一些关于 Sara魏丽红的问题。 答：是的。 问：Sara魏丽红领导哪个农场？ 答：当时是凤凰农场。 问：谁选择了农场领导？ 答：郭文贵。 问：谁给农场领导下达指示？ 答：郭文贵。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果可以，请调出 GX Z9。我们可以翻到第 192页。 问：吴女士，你还被问到郭文贵和 Sara魏丽红之间的不和。你记得吗？ 答：记得。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 97 / 152页 问：好的。现在请注意第 192页底部，这张表格的日期是 2023 年 2 月 13 日，图片上写着郭文 贵的 Gettr视频全文。 费根森律师说：如果我们可以稍微往下翻。我们会翻到第 193页底部。 问：如果可以，吴女士，我只会读这两段。上面写着，“无论在什么情况下都不要为自己找借口 ——” 舒里克律师说：反对。 法官说：这个文件是证据吗？ 费根森律师说：是的，法官大人。 舒里克律师说：有问题吗？ 法官说：也许你可以先问问题。 费根森律师说：是的，法官大人。可以问舒里克先生她能否告诉我我读得是否正确吗？ 法官说：不。你当然可以在他耳边低声说出预期的问题。 （律师们交谈） 由检方费根森律师继续提问： 问：吴女士，你能读一下从“不要找借口”开始的两段吗？ 答：“无论在什么情况下，无论是赚钱、追求目标，还是追求你所相信的东西，都不要为自己的 失败和贪婪找借口。 特别是中国人总喜欢推卸责任，把自己的错误归咎于家庭或生活中的某个人。他们总是让别人做 替罪羊，说是这个人的错，或者如果不是因为他……我们中国人喜欢指责别人。请为你所做的事 情负责。” 舒里克律师说：法官大人，反对。没有问题。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 98 / 152页 法官说：我在等问题。 问：你知道替罪羊是什么意思吗？ 答：这个词，是的。 问：替罪羊是什么意思？ 答：就是把你的错误推给别人，让别人为你的错误负责。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果可以，请翻到第 6页。 问：吴女士，你被问到这个表格上的条目。你记得吗？ 答：记得。 费根森律师说：如果可以，请往下翻。 对不起。可以稍微往上翻一点吗，洛夫特斯女士。 问：吴女士，在这个视频中，请注意第一段的最后一句。 答：好的。 问：你能读一下那句吗。 答：“结果这是一个保守估计，比估值高出 17.5倍。” 问：郭文贵关于 GTV 的价值说了些什么？ 舒里克律师说：反对。已经问过并回答了。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：我记得他说是 200亿；也许他说过后来价值更高。 费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果可以，请翻到第 28页。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 99 / 152页 问：吴女士，你还被问到在看到郭文贵关于农场的视频之前是否发送了你的农场借款。你记得被 问到这个吗？ 答：我记得他问的是 G-Clubs 的视频。 问：好的。我们也可以做这个。 费根森律师说：如果可以，请稍微往下翻。我们可以继续往下翻。 问：现在，吴女士，你看到表格上的日期是 2020 年 7 月 22 日了吗？ 答：看到了。 问：这是你发送 G-Clubs钱之前吗？ 答：是的。 问：你看到截图里写着“你立即成为 G-Clubs 的股东”了吗？ 答：看到了。 费根森律师说：如果可以，请快速调出 GX V939。政府附件 VN39。 问：在等待的过程中，吴女士，你被问到关于喜币配额公式的问题。你记得被问到这个吗？ 答：记得。 问：你能解释一下志愿工作是如何——���吧，撤回。志愿工作是唯一纳入公式的因素，还是只是 其中之一？ 舒里克律师说：反对。 法官说：反对有效。 问：你能解释一下志愿工作在公式中的一般作用吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 100 / 152页 答：我不知道。他们只是——他们这么做了。我认为他们没有任何规则。他们只是，如果他们喜 欢你，就会给你更多，如果你——如果他们——就像根据他们自己的感觉。我不知道。我不知道 有什么规则。 舒里克律师说：反对。关于其他人想法或行为的猜测。 法官说：她说她不知道是否有任何规则。答案保留。 问：吴女士，现在我们已经调出了借款协议，你记得被问到关于第 1(d)段的到期日的问 题吗？你记得那些问题吗？ 答：记得。 费根森律师说：如果可以，请滚动到签名页。 问：吴女士，在你寄钱的时候，你有对方签署的合同吗？ 答：没有。 问：你寄钱并签署合同后多久才收到签署的副本？ 答：就是这个，2021 年 11 月 2 日。 问：你同一天收到附件了吗？ 答：我不记得了。也许一起的。我不记得了。 问：吴女士，你还被问到关于你在中国的家庭的问题。你记得被问到这些问题吗？ 答：你能说得更清楚点吗？ 问：在交叉询问中，你被问到是否在中国有家庭。你记得吗？ 答：记得。 问：你被问到是否访问过中国。你记得吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 101 / 152页 答：记得。 问：你今天作证是因为中共强迫你吗？ 答：不是。你是说中共强迫我坐在这里回答你的问题吗？不是。 问：你是中共间谍吗？ 答：不是。 费根森律师说：没有进一步的问题。 法官说：重新交叉？ 重新交叉询问 舒里克律师说： 问：吴女士，你刚才看了 2020 年 7 月 22 日的视频，对吗？ 答：是的，刚才。 问：好的。当然。费根森先生问你是否记得在购买 G-Clubs会员之前看过那个视频，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。我给你看了关于 G-Clubs启动的视频，对吗？ 答：你给我看了视频？没有。 问：你不记得我给你看了一个视频吗？ 答：只是关于文字的，不是视频。 问：那是一个带文字的视频，对吗？ 答：好的，是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 102 / 152页 问：好的。那么你记得我之前给你看了那个视频。 答：记得。 问：好的。你不记得我给你看的那个视频是你购买 G-Clubs会员之前还是之后，对吗？那是你 的证词。 答：你没有说日期，对吗？我记得在那之后—— 问：如果我给你看它能帮助你回忆吗？ 答：好的。 舒里克律师说：请调出 GX 148-TX。这是一个在证据中的文件，日期是 2020 年 10 月 13 日。 问：请翻到第 5页。告诉我我是否说对了，好吗？ “根据 G-Clubs 的修订启动计划，会员不会获得未来股票发行的特别访问权，不会获得 GTV股 票，也不会获得购买会员资格的借款。这是严肃的事情，兄弟姐妹们。即使你买了 G-Clubs，它 绝对不会附带股票；这并不意味着你可以买 G Fashion 和 GTV 的股票；而且，这并不意味着你 将来可以获得借款。没有！没有！没有！我重复一下，这是一个非常严肃的话题。没有！没有！ 没有 GTV 的股票。没有 G Fashion 的股票。当我听到这些，我感到一阵寒意。没有这些东西。” 这能唤起你的记忆吗？ 答：不能。我问的是这个的日期，日期 问：如我之前所说，是 10 月 13 日。这是你购买 G-Clubs会员前三天，对吗？ 费根森律师说：他不能这么做，法官大人。 法官说：她询问日期。 舒里克律师说：这是一个事实证据。 法官说：10 月 13 日是哪一年？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 103 / 152页 舒里克律师说：2020 年。这个事实是由双方协议确认的。 法官说：你是在问 10 月 13 日是否在 10 月 15 日之前两天？这是问题吗？ 舒里克律师说：是的。还有 10 月 16 日。 法官说：是否 10 月—— 舒里克律师说：16 日在 10 月 13 日后三天，这是视频的日期。 法官说：这是个复合问题。我们分开来问。 舒里克律师说： 问：好的。你之前作证说你在 2020 年 10 月 16 日购买了 G-Clubs会员，对吗？ 答：我说的是 10 月。我不记得日期。 问：如果我给你看一个文件，能帮助你回忆吗？ 答：如果你有文件，是的。是的。 舒里克律师说：好的。还没给陪审团看，只给证人和双方律师看。 问：女士，你认得这个文件吗？ 答：认得。 问：这是什么？ 答：我的电汇声明。 问：事实上，这是你寄给政府律师的声明，对吗？ 答：是的。 舒里克律师说：法官大人，我们将此文件作为证据提交。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 104 / 152页 法官说：有异议吗？ 费根森律师说：没有，法官大人。 法官说：准许提交。你有标识码吗？ 舒里克律师说：有的。DX 7002，法官大人。抱歉，是 DX 7003。 （被告附件 7003 被接纳为证据） 舒里克律师说：我们可以向陪审团展示吗，法官大人。 法官说：可以。 舒里克律师说：我们可以放大“电汇信息”下的日期吗。 问：吴女士，你能看到这个文件吗？ 答：看到了。 问：这个文件是否唤起你对你在 2020 年 10 月 16 日通过汇款 1万美元购买 G-Clubs会员的记 忆？ 答：我还是想不起来了，就是像这个样子的。好，那个就是时间。 问：好的。不过你没理由认为你给政府的这个文件会有什么错误，对吗？ 答：这是正确的。这是正确的。 问：这是对的。 答：是的。 舒里克律师说：好的。现在我们回到前一个物证 GX C148-TX。不，收回。我们看 GX Z9，可不可以拉到 2020 年 10 月 13 日的那一条？ 问：现在能看到显示在屏幕上的文件吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 105 / 152页 答：能 问：你看到日期栏是 2020 年 10 月 13 日了吗？ 答：看到了。 舒里克律师说：好，现在我们往下拉，拉，接着拉，继续，我们在找——好，找到了。 问：你看到这里了吗？ 开头写着“根据已审阅过的 G-Clubs启动计划，会员将不会有机会认购或 购买将来发行的任何股份，也不会获得 GTV俱乐部股票”吗？你看到了吗？ 费根森律师说：法官大人，这是询问过程当中第三次读同一段文字了，我只是想加快一 下进度。 舒里克律师说：我只是想把事情连起来。 法官说：好，继续。 问：你看到了那里吗？ 答：看到了。 问：那里是，像图表上说的——图表已经是证据了——那是 2020 年 10 月 13 日的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是你购买 G-Clubs会员的 3天前，对吗？ 答：我听过他之前的或更早的视频。 问：我的问题是，这是你购买 G-Clubs会员的 3天前，对吗？ 答：对，是的。 问：好，谢谢。你刚才作证说不认为郭先生是真反共，对吗？ 答：对， 不是真反共。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 106 / 152页 问：好，那么我们再次调出 DX Stip 1 第 5段 。我要从这个段落中间开始读，中间偏后半段的 地方，从“2018 年 12 月左右”开始念。 “2018 年 12 月左右，小组的头发出指示每天在油管和脸书账户上发布三段视频或帖子，其中一 贴必须是反郭先生的。2020 年 2 月 3 日，一名中国政府官员发布任务，要求小组每个成员都要 原创一篇关于郭先生、新冠疫情或香港的文章。FBI调查了该小组的活动，包括针对郭先生的活 动，美国政府已起诉该小组的许多成员违反了美国法律。” 你能不能说说为什么中国政府会以这 种方式针对—— 费根森律师说：反对。 问：——郭先生，如果他不是真反共的话？ 法官说：反对有效。她不能代表中国政府发言。 问：这是否改变了你对郭先生是否反对中共的看法？ 答：没有。 问：即使中共在追捕他，也完全不能改变你的看法吗？ 法官说：问过答过。 舒里克律师说：没有多的问题了，法官大人。 法官说：要二次直接询问吗？ 费根森律师说：简短问一问。 费根森律师二次直接询问 问：吴女士，当你把钱寄给 G-Clubs时，你以为能得到什么？ 答：GTV股票。 舒里克律师说：超出范围。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】
O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 107 / 152页
法官说：反对无效。可以回答。
问：拿 G-Clubs 的钱会来买豪宅在你的预期之中吗？
舒里克律师说：反对。超出范围。
法官说：反对无效。可以回答。
问：拿 G-Clubs 的钱会来买豪宅在你的预期之中吗？
舒里克律师说：同样反对。
答：没有。
舒里克律师说：没有多的问题了。
法官说：要交叉询问吗？
舒里克律师说：没有，法官大人。
证人说：好的。
法官说：你可以离场了。
证人说：谢谢。
（证人退庭）
法官说：政府可以传唤下一个证人了。
芬克律师说：政府传唤金伯利 埃斯皮诺萨。
法庭书记员说：请举起右手。
（证人宣誓）
法庭书记员说：谢谢。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 108 / 152页 法官说：请说出你的名字并且拼写出来。 证人说：金伯利 埃斯皮诺萨。K-I-M-B-E-R-L-Y，E-S-P-I-N-O-Z-A。 法官说：你可以提问了。 芬克律师说：谢谢，法官大人。稍等片刻。 金伯利 埃斯皮诺萨 作为政府证人受到传唤，宣誓后作如下证词： 直接询问 由检方律师芬克先生进行： 问：埃斯皮诺萨女士，能不能请你帮陪审团回忆一下你在哪里工作，是什么职务？ 答：我在 FBI工作，我的职务是法务会计师。 法官说：稍等片刻，你可以继续了。 芬克律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 问：埃斯皮诺萨女士，你之前在这个审判中作过证，对吗？ 答：对，没错。 问：上次作证之后，案件小组是不是又联系你了？ 答：是的。 问：案件小组要求你做什么？ 答：审查新的财务信息，然后再次出庭。 问：那你审查了那些新的财务信息吗？ 答：是的，审查了。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 109 / 152页 芬克律师说：法官大人，按协议 GX Stip 14，政府提供 GX VNB1-3、GX IDB1、3、 4、7、GX SIG1、GX SIL4、GX SIL3、GX SIL40。 法官说：这些协议已经纳为证据了吗？ 芬克律师说：是的，法官大人。 法官说：有异议吗？ 舒里克律师说：没有异议。 法官说：好，纳为证据。 （政府物证 VNB1-3、IDB1、IDB3、IDB4、IDB7、SIG1、SIL4、SIL3、SIL40纳为证 据） 芬克律师说：根据协议 Stip 8，政府提供 BR451 和 BR452。 舒里克律师说：没有异议。 法官说：纳为证据。 （政府物证 BR451 和 BR452纳为证据） 芬克律师说：政府还提供 GX CAP623 和 GX CAP624。 舒里克律师说：没有异议。 法官说：纳为证据。 （政府物证 CAP623 和 CAP624纳为证据） 芬克律师说：谢谢，法官大人。洛夫特斯女士，能不能请你向证人展示一下标记为 GX Z12 的文件，从头拉到尾让埃斯皮诺萨女士看一遍。现在回到第 1页。 芬克律师问：埃斯皮诺萨女士，你认得这个文件吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 110 / 152页 答：认得。 问：这是什么？ 答：这是我协助完成的一个财务报表分析。 问：你看过这个分析了吗？ 答：看过。 问：根据基础证据， 你检查过文件准确吗？ 答：检查了。 问：准确吗？ 答：准确。 问：那些是大量记录就是基础证据吗？ 答：是的。 问：基础证据都是什么类型的记录？ 答：银行账户，比如银行对账单、支票、存款、取款，还有一些与房产相关的文件。 芬克律师说：政府提供 Z12。 舒里克律师说：没有异议。 法官说：纳为证据。 （政府物证 Z12纳为证据） 芬克律师说：我们可以展示了吗？ 问：埃斯���诺萨女士，概括一下你在这个图表中分析了哪些资金流向？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 111 / 152页 答：这些钱是从 Crane咨询集团 LLC转到了 Lawall & Mitchell 有限责任公司，后头的转款就从 这里继续。 法官说：没听清你说转移到哪里。 证人说：Lawall & Mitchell。 问：你知道 Crane咨询集团是什么吗？ 答：不知道。 问：你知道海瑟姆·哈立德是谁吗？ 答：不知道。 问：好，下面看 Z12 的第 1页，埃斯皮诺萨女士。左上角写着第一资本公司 887 和 890。那些 数字指的是什么？ 答：那些两个银行账户的最后四位数字。 问：这些账户属于哪个实体？ 答：Crane咨询集团有限责任公司。 芬克律师说：可不可以调到下一页。 问：我们在第 2页看到的是什么？ 答：这些是两个 Crane咨询集团 LLC银行账户的签名卡。 问：签名卡是什么？ 答：这是银行提供的一张卡，上面列出了所有账户信息以及账户的授权用户或签名人。 问：这些账户（887 和 890）的业务名称是什么？ 答：Crane咨询集团有限责任公司。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 112 / 152页 问：这些签名卡底部是谁的签名？ 答：海瑟姆·哈立德。 芬克律师说：好，请拉到下一页，洛夫特斯女士。 问：这个幻灯片上是什么，埃斯皮诺萨女士？ 答：那是另外的银行账户，但不是 Crane咨询集团 LLC 在第一资本公司的，所以这些是——他 在另外三家银行还有 7个账户。 问：这些账户都是 Crane咨询集团的吗？ 答：是的。 芬克律师说：下一页，洛夫特斯女士。 问：这一页上是什么？ 答：这是我刚才说的那些银行账户的三张签名卡，是 IDB Bank 和 Signature Bank 的。 问：这些账户属于哪些实体？ 答：Crane咨询集团有限责任公司。 问：屏幕上这三份文件的联系信息是什么，或者联系人的名字是什么？ 答：签名人的名字？ 问：是的，谢谢。 答：是海瑟姆·哈立德。 芬克律师说：好，请拉到下一页，洛夫特斯女士。 问：Lawall & Mitchell是什么？ 答：我不确定。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 113 / 152页 问：你有看过 Lawall & Mitchell 的银行账户信息吗？ 答：看过。 问：那是硅谷国家银行吗？ 答：是的。 芬克律师说：下一页可以吗，洛夫特斯女士？ 问：埃斯皮诺萨女士，你能向陪审团解释这个第 6页幻灯片上是什么吗，。 答：底部是那些账单的一个例子，写着硅谷国家银行 和 Lawall & Mitchell 有限责任公司，地址 也列出来了，还有——账户的最后四位数字，是 1500。 问：好， 你知道 Aaron Mitchell是谁吗？ 答：不知道。 芬克律师说：洛夫特斯女士，可不可以请你把证据 GX 128 调出来。 问：你知道这个人是谁吗？ 答：不知道。 芬克律师说：洛夫特斯女士，可不可以请你回到 Z12 的第 6页。 问：在这个幻灯片的左边——对不起，是左边写着截到 9 月 26 日的余额，那个余额是多少？ 答：73,672 美元。 芬克律师说：可不可以拉下一页，洛夫特斯女士。 问：所以这 3个是你最初分析的——对不起——那组账户吗？ 答：是的，没错。 芬克律师说：我们看下一页，洛夫特斯女士。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 114 / 152页 问：这是第 8页，埃斯皮诺萨女士，这页都有什么？你能向陪审团描述一下吗？ 答：这是 Crane咨询集团有限责任公司在 第一资本公司的两个账户，尾号 0887 和 0890，一共 转了 37,006,848 美元，是 2021 年 9 月 29 日转到了 Lawall & Mitchell LLC 在硅谷国家银行的账 户上。 问：那你知道那两个 Crane账户为什么在 2021 年 9 月 29 日转了 3700多万美元吗？ 答：不知道。 芬克律师说：请到下一页，洛夫特斯女士。 问：这一页上是什么，第 9页？ 答：底部的总额是 37,006,848 美元，就是我刚才说的前一页的总额，所以这是分开的 3笔转账 的累计总额。 问：第一个转账日期上为什么有星号？ 答：因为电汇是 2021 年 9 月 29 日完成的，但在第一资本公司对账单上，交易日期是 2021 年 9 月 10 日。 问：你知道延迟的原因吗？ 答：不知道。 芬克律师说：可不可以请你调到第 10页，洛夫特斯女士。 问：埃斯皮诺萨女士，你能描述一下第 10页是什么吗？ 答：是 Crane咨询集团有限责任公司在另外其他 3家银行的那 7个银行账户，在 2021 年 9 月 27 日到 2021 年 10 月 27 日期间，转了 9,542,511 美元到 Lawall & Mitchell 在 硅谷国家银行的 账户上。 问：在这些转账之前，你能帮陪审团回忆一下 Lawall & Mitchell 账户大约有多少钱吗？ 答：大约 73,000 美元。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 115 / 152页 芬克律师说：请调到第 11页，洛夫特斯女士。 问：这个幻灯片是什么？ 答：底部的总额是之前幻灯片中的 9,542,511 美元，所以这页显示单独每笔转款的累计金额。 问：所以有些转账金额还不到 10 美元，对吗？ 答：是的，没错。 问：记录是这么显示的吗？ 答：是的。 芬克律师说：请到第 12页。 问：埃斯皮诺萨女士，看第 12页，Crane咨询集团的这些银行账户总共向 Lawall & Mitchell转 移了多少钱？ 答：46,549,359 美元。 问：你继续追踪了 Lawall & Mitchell账户的资金流向吗？ 答：是的，我追踪了。 芬克律师说：请调到第 13页，洛夫特斯女士。 问：你能告诉陪审团我们在第 13页看到的是什么吗。 答：2021 年 11 月 8 日，Lawall & Mitchell 从前面提到的 硅谷国家银行的那个账户转出 46,549,275 美元到 银门银行 的汉密尔顿机会基金 SPC账户。 问：汉密尔顿机会基金 SPC是什么？ 答：我不知道。 芬克律师说：可不可以到第 14页。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 116 / 152页 问：顺便问一下 埃斯皮诺萨女士，除了今天为这个图表做证，还有大约 1周前为那个图表做证 之外，你有参与这个案件别的部分吗？ 答：没有。 问：埃斯皮诺萨女士，你能不能向陪审团解释一下在第 14页看到什么吗？ 答：这是银门银行账户的签名卡，他们称之为主协议。卡上说的是有权使用账户的两个人是余建 明和 David Fallon。 问：余建明是左边的那个名字吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道这个人是谁吗？ 答：不知道。 芬克律师说：洛夫特斯女士，可以调出政府物证 103 了。 舒里克律师说：反对。有问题吗？ 芬克律师说：我只是在等待文件加载。 问：埃斯皮诺萨女士，我的问题是：你知道政府物证 103中描绘的这个人是谁吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：你知道是否是余建明？ 答：不知道。 芬克律师说：可以回到政府物证 Z12 的第 14页吗？ 问：在这些转账之前的余额大约是多少？ 答：2900万。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 117 / 152页 芬克律师说：请到第 15页，洛夫特斯女士。 问：从 Lawall & Mitchell转入汉密尔顿机会基金账户 7739 的 4650多万美元后来怎么样了？ 答：2021 年 12 月 2 日，同样的金额，4654万 9275 美元转到了 汉密尔顿机会基金 在银门银行 的另一个账户，账户的最后四位数字是 7713。 问：这些汇款信息中有没有未在图表上反映出来的转账原因？ 答：银行对账单上有——上面确实说了投资者错误账户，或者类似的信息。 问：你知道是谁将这些写入汇款信息的吗？ 答：不知道。 芬克律师说： 问：你知道为什么这些信息被包括在内吗？ 答：可能是银行，也可能是汇款人，但我不知道为什么。 问：请到 16页，洛夫特斯女士，下一页。埃斯皮诺萨女士，我们在这里看到的是什么？ 答：这是银门银行 账户 7713 的一个协议或签名卡，上面列出的授权用户同样是余建明和 David Fallon。 问：余建明和 David Fallon是汉密尔顿机会基金 这两个账户的授权用户，对吗？ 答：是的，没错。 问：这 4650万美元转账之前，汉密尔顿机会基金 账户 7713 的余额是多少？ 答：4,779,188 美元。 问：埃斯皮诺萨女士，这 4650万美元从 Crane咨询集团转到 Lawall & Mitchell，再到汉密尔顿 机会基金，然后到汉密尔顿机会基金第二个账户后，你有追踪这些资金的流向吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 118 / 152页 答：是的，我有。 问：请到下一页，洛夫特斯女士。2021 年 12 月 8 日发生了什么？ 答：支付了 200万美元到 McDonnell Whitaker 律师信托账户。 问：请到下一页，洛夫特斯女士。 问：2021 年 12 月 16 日发生了什么？ 答：支付了 24,500,000 美元到 Insight Title Services 有限责任公司信托账户。 问：这笔钱是从哪个账户转出的？ 答：汉密尔顿机会基金 账户 7713。 问：请到下一页。这个幻灯片上是什么？ 答：另外 1300万美元在 2021 年 12 月 1 日至 2022 年 3 月 2 日期间转到了 Buck Esquire 有限 责任公司律师信托账户。 问：总的来说，从 2021 年 12 月 8 日到 2022 年 3 月 2 日，大约有多少钱从汉密尔顿机会基金 7713账户转出？ 答：39,500,000 美元。 问：埃斯皮诺萨女士，你看过 Insight Title Services 有限责任公司信托的文件吗？ 答：是的，看过了。 问：和这 2450万美元有的文件吗？ 答：是的，涉及到一处价值大约相同金额的房产。 问：下一页，这是你看过的文件之一吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 119 / 152页 问：顶上写着结算书住房与城市发展表格-1，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道住房与城市发展表格-1结算书是什么吗？ 答：看着就是购置一处房产，所以列出了借款人、卖家、购买价格，借款人及卖家的交易。 问：我们能放大左边顶部的 G框吗？你能念一下吗，埃斯皮诺萨女士？ 答：可以。房产地址 675 Ramapo Valley Road, Mahwah, New Jersey 07430要继续念吗？ 问：不用了。请缩小。能放大 G 框上面的那个框吗，上面写着借款人的名字和地址。根据这个 文件，埃斯皮诺萨女士，借款人的名字是什么？ 答：Taurus Fund 有限责任公司。 问：你知道那是什么吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能放大 101 行合同销售价格吗？ 问：这处房产的合同销售价格是多少？ 答：2600万美元。 问：请放大 201 行，押金或定金的金额是多少？ 答：200万美元。 问：洛夫特斯女士，请回到第 19页。2021 年 12 月 8 日转给 McDonnell Whitaker 律师信托的 金额是多少？ 答：200万美元。 问：回到第 20页，下一页，洛夫特斯女士，能到下一页吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 120 / 152页 问：这些是 Insight Title Services 另外文件吗？ 答：是的。 问：洛夫特斯女士，请放大左边第一行，一直放大到最右侧，能读出这一整行吗，埃斯皮诺萨女 士？ 答：2021 年 12 月 17 日，Taurus Fund LLC，住房与城市发展表格第 303 行，从借款人处借得 现金，存入金额为 24,344,844.44 美元。 问：请缩小。文件底部显示 155,155.56 美元。你能解释右边文件上的内容吗？ 答：右边文件是相同金额的电汇。这是从 Insight Title转到 Buck Esquire 有限责任公司的电汇， 底部有备注“过度筹资”。 问：洛夫特斯女士，请放大最后那份文件的最后一行和倒数第二行。 问：能念一念最后那行吗？ 就是 2021 年 12 月 17 日旁边的内容，从 Crocker 开始。 答：Crocker Mansion Estate 有限责任公司，新泽西有限责任公司，住房与城市发展表格第 603 行支付给卖方现金 10,852,425.02 美元。 问：你去过 675 Ramapo, Valley Road吗？ 答：没有。 问：你去过 Crocker Mansion吗？ 答：没有。 芬克律师说：谢谢你，埃斯皮诺萨女士。没有多的问题。 法官说：交叉询问。 交叉询问，由舒里克律师进行：
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 121 / 152页 问：谢谢你，法官大人。简短问一问。很高兴再次见到你，埃斯皮诺萨女士。上作证时你说到政 府的律师大约在 3周前首次请你在这个案件中作证，对吗，可能稍��� 更早些时候吧？ 答：可能是 3到 4周前。 问：再说一次，在检察官请你作证之前，你对这个案件一无所知，对吗？ 答：对，我一无所知。 问：再确认一次，你不是 FBI调查团队的一员，对吗？ 答：对。 问：你也不是检方团队的一员？ 答：对，不是。 问：事实上，正如你在直接询问中所作证的，除了你的证词和准备工作外，你实际上没有参与过 这个案件，对吗？ 答：是的，没错。 问：现在，简要谈谈这个图表，你能告诉我这个图表的第一版是谁创建的吗？ 答：我相信是另一位法务会计师，不是我，是 FBI 的另一位法务会计师。 问：大约是什么时候？ 答：大约是两周前。 问：在第一版之后，你和政府的律师讨论了这个图表吗？ 答：我可能收到的是第三或第四版，所以我没有参与最初的讨论。 问：在早期版本中。你收到第三或第四版后，之后还有多少版本？ 答：我相信这是第五版，五或六版，但我相信是第五版。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 122 / 152页 问：好的。我们来快速看一下这个图表。 问：如果可以请调出政府附件 C-12。我只会问几个问题，我们可以快速翻阅。如果可以，请调 到第 4页，这页标题是 Crane咨询——对不起。撤回。 问：在这一页的右侧，一个绿色框中的内容是 Crane咨询在三家银行的七个账户，对吗？ 答：对。 问：这页显示了 IDB银行的两张签名卡，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后是签名银行的一张签名卡？ 答：是的。 问：这里有第三家银行吗？ 答：有的。 问：那家银行是摩根士丹利吗？ 答：是的。 问：你记得 Crane 在摩根士丹利有多少个账户吗？ 答：四个账户。 问：这里没有显示摩根士丹利那些账户的签名卡，对吗？ 答：对。 问：请调到第 8页。 问：我相信你在直接询问中被问到过，但你不知道 Lawall & Mitchell是什么，对吗？ 答：不知道。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 123 / 152页 问：你知道它为什么接收资金吗？ 答：不知道。 问：所以你不知道，比如，Lawall & Mitchell是否是 G-Clubs 的律师之一，对吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：请调到第 13页。 问：这页显示了 Lawall & Mitchell向汉密尔顿机会基金 SPC转账，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你作证时说你不知道汉密尔顿是什么类型的基金，对吗？ 答：对，我不知道是什么类型的基金。 问：你不知道这些资金在汉密尔顿名下是哪个账户，对吗？ 答：我相信我们在下一张幻灯片上有签名卡，里面有列出的名字。 问：让我重新措辞这个问题，因为问题可能不清楚。在汉密尔顿实体内部，你不知道这些资金在 汉密尔顿内部的哪个账户中，对吗，而不是在银行？ 答：是的，我只知道银行账户信息。 问：是的，谢谢。这是我试图划分的区别。谢谢。如果可以，请调到第 15页。 问：这张幻灯片显示的是在签名银行内部的转账，对吗，从一个汉密尔顿账户到另一个汉密尔顿 账户？ 答：是的，这是两个账户之间的转账。 问：所以这实际上不是离开银门银行的钱，对吗，最后一个箭头在两个底部的框之间？ 答：最后的转账是在银门银行的一个账户到另一个账户。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 124 / 152页 问：可以称之为内部转账，不是离开银行？ 答：是的，这很公平。 问：这是在 2021 年 12 月 2 日发生的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你不知道为什么，对吗？ 答：对。 问：你不知道，例如，资金是否最初被定向到错误的账户？ 答：对不起，你能重复一下吗。 问：你不知道，例如，资金是否最初被定向到错误的账户？ 答：我不知道。 问：请调到第 20页。你刚才在直接询问中作证，这是 HUD-1 表格，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：据你所知，这个表格是房地产买卖中的标准政府表格吗？ 答：我不确定这是否是标准表格。 问：请放大左上角。我相信是 D。这里有点像眼力测试，但我认为是左上角的第一个框。上面写 着 Taurus Fund LLC。你看到了吗？ 答：看到了。 问：作为 FBI 的法务会计师，你是否在房地产交易中有经验？ 答：有的。 问：在购买高端房地产时，买方创建一个有限责任公司来持有所有权是常见的吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 125 / 152页 答：我不知道这是否常见。 问：如果我们能放大右侧的 E，这里有点模糊，你能看到卖方的名字似乎是 Crocker Mansion Estate 有限责任公司，新泽西有限责任公司吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是否表明卖方也是一个有限责任公司？ 答：是的，卖方也是一个有限责任公司。 舒里克律师说：暂时没有进一步的问题，法官大人。 法官说：重定向。 芬克律师说：没有，法官大人。谢谢你，埃斯皮诺萨女士。 法官说：你可以离开了。 （证人离席） 法官说：政府可以叫下一个证人。 莫里律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。政府叫吉米 威尔森。 吉米 威尔森， 被政府叫作证人， 宣誓后，作如下证言： 法官说：请说出你的名字并拼写。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 126 / 152页 证人说：吉米 威尔森，J-A-M-I-E，威尔森是W-I-L-S-O-N。 法官说：你可以提问。 莫里律师说：谢谢你，法官大人。 直接询问 问：下午好，威尔森女士。 答：下午好。 问：你在哪里工作？ 答：我在普林斯顿银行工作。 问：你的职务是什么？ 答：我是银行的 BSA 官员。 问：BSA 代表什么？ 答：BSA 代表银行保密法。 问：你什么时候成为 BSA 官员的？ 答：四年前。 问：作为 BSA 官员，你的职责和责任是什么？ 答：我的职责是保护金融机构和我们的金融行业免受洗钱、恐怖融资和逃税的影响。 问：你能向陪审团描述一下，在履行 BSA职责过程中，你是如何监控这些问题的吗？ 答：是的。我们有不同的监控方式。我们有一个系统，当人们的活动超出个人账户或商业账户的 正常范围时，会提醒我们。执法部门可以通过 314A 联系我们。我们有 314B，允许我们与其他
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 127 / 152页 金融机构交流。我们有不同的月度和每周报告，监控电汇、货币工具、任何进出银行的活动，我 们都会监控。 问：你提到了 314B 计划，你能详细解释一下这是什么吗？ 答：314B 计划并不是所有金融机构都参与，但如果你注册，它允许你与另一家银行讨论你们共 同拥有的客户的活动。 所以，如果我是金融机构 A 的客户，同时也是金融机构 B 的客户，我们可以讨论我们的账户活 动，涉及到洗钱和可能的恐怖融资。 问：314B 信息共享系统如何帮助你进行 BSA监控？ 答：这有助于我们看到更大的图景。如果我们不确定活动的来源或它的去向，它允许我们找出资 金的来源，如果是进入我们的银行，或者它的去向，及其用途。 问：威尔森女士，你熟悉 QualiFile这个术语吗？ 答：熟悉。 问：QualiFile是什么？ 答：QualiFile是每个到银行开户的个人和企业的报告。它是每个银行都会运行的一个支票系统 报告，允许你看到某人是否在另一家机构有欠款。如果他们在另一家银行有负余额，它会显示他 们可能欠那家金融机构的钱。 问：你熟悉 OFAC这个词吗？ 答：熟悉。 问：它代表什么？ 答：OFAC是外国资产控制办公室，OFAC会发送多种不同类型的名单，有些人可能被封锁或制 裁，你不能与这些个人或企业进行交易。 问：OFAC 名单在你作为 BSA 官员的职责和责任中有何相关性？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 128 / 152页 答：如果有人在 OFAC 名单上，我们需要联系 OFAC，这是美国财政部的一部分，并拒绝交易 或将资金放入单独的账户并持有。 问：你能描述一下普林斯顿银行的普通客户档案吗？ 答：可以。普林斯顿银行的普通客户可以是从蓝领客户，即可能是机械师或军人，到房地产代理 或医生办公室的任何人。 问：普林斯顿银行有多少分行？ 答：我们有 26个分行。 问：从地理上讲，这些分行位于美国的哪些地方？ 答：主要在新泽西和宾夕法尼亚州，最近在纽约市的郊区也有几家，但大多数在新泽西和宾夕法 尼亚州。 问：威尔森女士，你是否在某个时候对 Lamp Capital 的账户进行了 BSA 审查？ 答：是的。 问：大约是什么时候？ 答：大约在 2020 年 9 月。 问：你还记得关于那个客户的什么吗？ 答：那个客户是由一位董事会成员介绍来的，他与一位顾问和律师会面，他们被介绍到一起，将 资金带到我们的金融机构，因为他们认为我们仍然是一个家族类型银行，而不是大型机构。 问：你记得介绍这个账户的顾问的名字吗？ 答：我相信顾问是 Stephen Lawandy，律师是海瑟姆·哈立德。他们把资金带给我们。 问：顾问是否提到他与谁合作将这个账户带到普林斯顿银行？ 巴尔坎律师说：反对，传闻。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 129 / 152页 法官说：反对有效。 问：你还记得在 Lamp Capital中提到的其他个人吗？ 答：当 Lamp Capital 开户时，账户的签名人是另一位律师。我们查询了那个名字，Daniel Podhaskie。 问：威尔森女士，当在普林斯顿银行开户时，银行会向潜在客户索取什么信息？ 答：当是企业账户时，我们需要两种形式的企业身份证明。通常是由国税局提供的 SS4，包含 他们的 EIN号码。EIN号码类似于企业的社会安全号码。另一份文件是他们向州提交的公司注 册证书，以及账户签名人的所有身份证。 问：你收集这些信息后会做什么？ 答：我们会审查这些文件以确保它们是合法文件，确保他们确实向国税局提交了文件，确实向各 州提交了文件。我们审查签名人是否与开户的企业文件匹配，并且签名人的身份证是否合法。 问：你对 Lamp Capital账户进行了 BSA 审查吗？ 答：是的。 问：你记得那次审查的什么内容吗？ 答：终极受益所有者，也就是企业的最终所有者。我们审查了这些文件。开户文件，账 户签名人不是企业的所有者，这是一个警示信号。他们恰好是一位律师，而不是实际的签名人。 企业的签名人和所有者在 UBO 表格（终极受益所有权表格）上，他们是非居民外国人，不是美 国公民。这并不代表坏事，但对我们银行来说风险更高。 问：我想讨论一下你审查 Lamp Capital账户时的特征。你还记得那个账户的大致金额吗？ 莫里律师说：这与威尔森女士刚才提到的风险评级有关。 法官说：允许回答。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 130 / 152页 答：没有在我们机构有贷款的情况下，我从未见过这么多钱被带进来开账户。这比我们的平均客 户高得多。 莫里律师说：法官大人，双方有一个证据协议，我相信已经在案。我会确认。这是政府 附件 Stip 14，是关于银行记录的协议。根据这个协议，现在政府提出政府附件 GX-BOP-16、 BOP-7、BOP-1、BOP-2、BOP-3 和 BOP-4。 法官说：有反对吗？ 巴尔坎律师说：没有，法官大人。 法官说：它们被接纳。 （政府附件 BOP-16、BOP-7、BOP-1、BOP-2、BOP-3 和 BOP-4 被接纳为证据） 莫里律师说： 问：威尔森女士，普林斯顿银行是否受任何监管机构的保险？ 答：FDIC。 问：你能解释一下 FDIC是什么吗？ 答：FDIC是联邦存款保险公司，他们在金融上支持我们的机构，以覆盖我们机构内的资金，并 且每 18个月至少检查一次我们的银行，确保我们合规。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们现在已经有这个文件了，如果你能翻几页。 问：威尔森女士，总的来说，你是否认出政府附件 BOP-16？ 答：是的，这是账户协议，开户文件。 问：请调到第一页，洛夫特斯女士。 问：这个账户的名称是什么？ 答：Lamp Capital。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 131 / 152页 问：请放大页面顶部部分。 问：威尔森女士，账户协议的日期是什么？ 答：2020 年 9 月 10 日。 问：左下方，签名人的名字是什么？ 答：Daniel Podhaskie。 问：下面的框中，Lamp Capital下面的文本是什么？ 答：新成立的公司。 问：洛夫特斯女士，请调到第 10页。 问：威尔森女士，这是什么文件？ 答：这是显示最终受益所有者的文件。 问：谁填写了这个文件？谁提供了体现在这个文件上的信息？ 答：开户的人。 问：请放大顶部部分到第一个表格。 问：威尔森女士，开户人的名字是什么？ 答：Daniel Podhaskie。 问：B部分，账户的法律实体名称是什么？ 答：Lamp Capital。 问：C部分，列为 Lamp Capital 的最终受益所有者的名字是什么？ 答：郭强。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 132 / 152页 问：你能拼写一下吗？ 答：Q-I-A-N-G，姓是 G-U-O。 问：洛夫特斯女士，请放大。这个文件中与郭强相关的地址是什么？ 答：781或 761 Fifth Avenue, New York, New York 10002。 问：根据这个文件，这个人持有什么类型的护照？ 答：香港护照。 问：洛夫特斯女士，请调到第 15页。 问：威尔森女士，这是什么类型的文件？ 答：这是他们的有限责任公司协议，是一个商业文件。 问：为什么普林斯顿银行在开户过程中收集商业文件？ 答：为了验证企业的合法性，确保他们确实注册了公司，并且文件中通常会说明公司类型、签名 人和相关信息。 问：在进行 BSA 审查时，你在收集公司文件时会关注什么？ 答：我们收集公司文件时，查看公司实际注册日期、签名人、公司类型、相关人员、公司所在地 和注册地点。 问：请关注顶部部分，洛夫特斯女士。 问：根据这个有限责任公司协议，Lamp Capital 的创建日期是什么？ 答：2020 年 9 月 8 日。 问：这个公司列出的唯一成员是什么实体？ 答：Infinity Treasury Management, Inc.
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 133 / 152页 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能简短地回到第一页吗？ 问：威尔森女士，Daniel Podhaskie是什么时候申请开设以 Lamp Capital 名义的银行账户的？ 答：2020 年 9 月 10 日。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们回到第 19页，只看公司文件的底部。 问：威尔森女士，谁代表 Infinity Treasury Management签署了有限责任公司协议？ 答：Daniel Podhaskie。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们现在可以看第 33页。 问：威尔森女士，这是什么？ 答：这是 QualiFile 报告，支票系统报告。 问：你能描述一下 QualiFile 报告中包含了哪些信息吗？ 答：这是每个银行都会对开设账户的每个企业或个人进行的报告。当我们查看这份报告时，它会 给我们建议是否开设或拒绝账户。如果某人在其他机构最近开设了账户或在其他机构有冲销记 录，我们可以在这里看到。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能看下一页吗？请关注到查询详情部分，直到详情二的结尾。 问：威尔森女士，你能解释一下这份报告中的信息吗？ 答：是的。所以你可以看到 2020 年 8 月 30 日，Daniel Podhaskie 也去了 NexBank 查询并开设 账户。所以他在他们的机构完成了开户过程，不管他们是否实际开设了账户，他们可能已经开设 了，因为他们运行了他的信息。然后在 2020 年 9 月 15 日，他也去了桑坦德银行查询并开设账 户。 问：我们可以放下那份文件了，洛夫特斯女士。谢谢。 问：在普林斯顿银行开设了任何 Lamp Capital 的账户吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 134 / 152页 答：是的。 问：Lamp Capital 的签名人后来是否在普林斯顿银行开设了另一个账户？ 答：是的。 问：那个账户的名称是什么？ 答：Greenwich Land。 问：Greenwich Land账户大约是什么时候开的？ 答：也是 2020 年 9 月。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能公布证据中的政府证据 BOP-7吗？ 问：威尔森女士，这是什么文件？ 答：这是开户文件，账户协议。 问：如果我们能专注于顶部部分，请洛夫特斯女士放大整个顶部。 问：这个账户开户文件的日期是什么？ 答：2020 年 9 月 23 日。 问：看看右边，这个账户的标题和与账户关联的个人是什么？ 答：Greenwich Land 有限责任公司和 Daniel Podhaskie。 问：再看左边的所有者/签名人信息，Daniel Podhaskie 的职业是什么？ 答：律师。 问：如果我们能看第三页，洛夫特斯女士。 问：威尔森女士，这是什么类型的文件？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 135 / 152页 答：这是终极受益所有权文件。 问：如果我们能专注于顶部部分，洛夫特斯女士。 问：威尔森女士，在 C项表格中，谁被列为 Greenwich Land 的受益所有者？ 答：岳庆芝。 问：好的，洛夫特斯女士，我们可以看第八页。 问：威尔森女士，这是什么类型的记录？ 答：这是企业的决议，任何开设账户并有权管理账户的人都会签署这个。 问：请放大，洛夫特斯女士，然后看下一页，再下一页。我们可以专注于顶部部分。在什么日期 成立了这个有限责任公司？ 答：2020 年 9 月 22 日。 问：谁代表公司签署了文件？ 答：Daniel Podhaskie。 问：这是 2020 年 9 月 22 日。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以回到第一页。 问：Daniel Podhaskie是什么时候在普林斯顿银行申请开设 Greenwich Land账户的？ 答：2020 年 9 月 23 日。 问：我们看第 17页，洛夫特斯女士。 问：威尔森女士，这是 Greenwich Land账户的 QualiFile回复吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后看下一页，第 18页，如果我们能放大这里的文字。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 136 / 152页 问：与 Greenwich Land银行账户相关的查询有多少次？ 答：四次。 问：你能读出那些查询的日期和银行名称吗？ 答：NexBank，桑坦德银行，签名银行和普林斯顿银行。 问：你能解释为什么普林斯顿银行会出现在自己的 QualiFile响应上吗？ 答：他们在 9 月 16 日也通过 QualiFile运行了他的名字，然后在 9 月 23 日再次运行。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们看第 23页。 问：威尔森女士，这是什么？ 答：这是新账户检查清单，分行填写给企业的，以确保我们拥有所有必要的文件，无论是 BSA 还是法律方面的文件。 问：如果我们能看下一页，洛夫特斯女士。看页面中间偏下部分，加粗的，如果我们能放大那部 分。 问：威尔森女士，这张表格反映了什么关于 Greenwich Land 业务类型的信息？ 答：资本管理。 问：好的，洛夫特斯女士，我们可以放下那份文件。 问：威尔森女士，作为 BSA 官员，你在 Lamp Capital 和 Greenwich Land账户开立后是否监控 了它们？ 答：是的。 问：你观察到这些账户的活动时，有什么发现吗？ 答：这两个账户的资金比我在普林斯顿银行 11 年里看到的都要高，然后账户中开始流出的资金 与我们认为的资本管理或房地产业务不符，或者与我所见的那种业务不符。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 137 / 152页 问：你观察到的哪种活动与你认为的典型活动不符？ 答：资金流出，有两张大额支票给了这些业务的受益所有者，分别来自每个业务的受益所有者。 他们去了汽车经销商、酒庄、游艇，这不符合那个业务类型。 莫里律师说：法官大人，根据证据协议 GX-Stip 14，我还提出政府附件 GX-BOP-12 和 GX-BOP-10。 法官说：没有反对意见。 巴尔坎律师说：没有反对意见，法官大人。 法官说：它们被接纳。 （政府附件 BOP-12 和 BOP-10 被接纳为证据） 问：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们能公布 GX-BOP-12。 问：威尔森女士，当我们调出这个时，你在 Greenwich Land或 Lamp Capital账户中观察到任 何 OFAC命中吗？ 答：没有 OFAC匹配。 问：威尔森女士，这是什么？ 答：这是银行对账单。 问：看顶部，这个银行对账单是哪个账户的？ 答：Lamp Capital 有限责任公司。 问：右上角的对账单结束日期是什么？ 答：2020 年 10 月 30 日。 问：如果我们能关注账户摘要部分到底部，洛夫特斯女士。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 138 / 152页 问：威尔森女士，看账户摘要，Lamp Capital账户在这个付费期间的期末余额是多少？ 答：4,230,400 美元。 问：我想看看这里反映的不同交易。在其他贷记中，第二个条目，这笔进账电汇的日期是什么？ 答：2020 年 10 月 15 日。 问：来自哪个实体名下的银行账户？ 答：Savio Law 有限责任公司。 问：进入 Lamp Capital账户的进账电汇金额是多少？ 答：五百万美元。 问：如果我们能看第三页，洛夫特斯女士。 问：看看顶部内容。第三个项目，这笔出账电汇的日期是什么？ 答：2020 年 10 月 29 日。 问：它去了哪里？ 答：Moran Yacht Management, Inc. 问：从 Lamp Capital账户出账电汇的金额是多少？ 答：272,525 美元。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以放下那份文件，并公布政府附件 BOP-10。 问：威尔森女士，这是什么？ 答：这又是一份银行对账单。 问：是哪个账户的？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 139 / 152页 答：Greenwich Land。 问：对账单结束日期是什么？ 答：2020 年 10 月 30 日。 问：如果我们能关注顶部部分，从账户摘要到页面底部。 问：2020 年 10 月 30 日，Greenwich Land账户的期末余额是多少？ 答：几乎是 1000万美元。 问：看看这里列出的进账电汇，如果我们能一个一个来看，那三笔进账电汇的日期、来源和金 额？ 答：是的，2020 年 10 月 15 日，有一笔来自 Savio Law 有限责任公司的进账电汇，金额为五百 万美元。 2020 年 10 月 21 日，有一笔来自 ACA Capital Group, LTD 的进账电汇，金额为 999,893.22 美 元，2020 年 10 月 23 日，另一笔来自 ACA Capital Group 的进账电汇，金额将近四百万美元。 问：然后如果我们看这部分底部的其他借记，倒数第二个借记记录，如果你能读一下，那是 10 月 26 日的？ 答：一笔向 Sherry-Lehman, Inc.的出账电汇，金额为 32,220 美元。 问：你知道 Sherry-Lehman, Inc.是什么类型的公司或业务吗？ 答：我不太记得他们的业务是什么。 问：如果我们能放下那份文件，洛夫特斯女士，并展示标记为政府附件 BOP-40 的文件。 问：威尔森女士，你认得这个吗？ 答：这是电子邮件。 问：如果我们能滚动浏览这些页面，洛夫特斯女士。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 140 / 152页 问：威尔森女士，你见过这封电子邮件吗？ 答：是的。 问：你收到了这封电子邮件吗？ 答：是的。 莫里律师说：法官大人，政府提出政府附件 BOP-40。 巴尔坎律师说：没有反对意见，法官大人。 法官说：它被接纳。 （政府附件 BOP-40 被接纳为证据） 莫里律师说：我们可以公布它。 问：从顶部开始，然后我们会逐页查看这封邮件，威尔森女士。这个邮件链顶部的日期是什么？ 答：2020 年 12 月 18 日。 问：这是一封从你发给谁的电子邮件？ 答：从我发给我的助理 BSA 官员。 问：整个邮件链的主题是什么？ 答：Greenwich Land 的进账电汇。 问：这封邮件有一个附件，附件的标题是什么？ 答：贷款协议 ACA 与 Greenwich需要签署的 PDF。 问：我们看第三页，洛夫特斯女士。 问：集中于页面大约三分之一处开始的电子邮件，Miriam Colon是谁？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 141 / 152页 答：她是我们新不伦瑞克办公室的分行经理。 问：这封来自 Miriam Colon 的电子邮件的日期是什么？ 答：2020 年 11 月 19 日。 问：它发给了谁？ 答：海瑟姆·哈立德和 Daniel Podhaskie。 问：海瑟姆·哈立德的电子邮件域名是什么？ 答：Crane咨询集团。 问：你知道 Crane咨询集团是什么吗？ 答：那是他工作的投资咨询公司。 问：Daniel Podhaskie 的电子邮件域名是什么？ 答：Lamp Capital。 问：你能读一下这封来自 Miriam Colon 的电子邮件的前两行吗？ 答：早上好，先生们。希望你们今天过得好。我们的合规部门正在对这笔付款进行追溯审查。 问：看看黑色和红色的文字。你看到了吗？ 答：是的。 问：如果我们能缩小视图，洛夫特斯女士，并向上滚动几页，看看第一页底部。如果我们能放 大，洛夫特斯女士。 问：这封电子邮件是谁发的？ 答：Daniel Podhaskie。 问：日���是什么？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 142 / 152页 答：2020 年 12 月 2 日。 问：他发给了谁？ 答：分行经理 Miriam Colon，并抄送了海瑟姆·哈立德。 问：这封电子邮件的内容说：嗨，Miriam。我在下面红色字体中填写了所需的信息，并附上了所 需的支持文件。你看到了吗？ 答：是的。 问：我们回到第三页，洛夫特斯女士。如果我们能放大那封电子邮件。 问：威尔森女士，普林斯顿银行在第一项中向 Lamp Capital 请求了什么信息？ 答：我们试图了解 ACA Capital Group 的业务活动、联系方式、实体地址和电话号码，所以我们 需要了解 ACA Capital是什么公司以及更多关于该公司的信息。 问：你为什么要请求更多关于该公司的信息？ 答：因为他们向我们新的客户转入了一大笔资金。 问：看看第二项中 Miriam Colon 的请求，请提供 ACA Capital Group Limited 的组织结构图，并 注明受益所有者。Lamp Capital 对此请求的回应是什么？ 答：他们不拥有这些信息。 问：看看第三项中普林斯顿银行请求 Greenwich Land 所运营行业及附加标识信息。你能读一下 红色字体中的回应吗？ 答：Greenwich Land是一家房地产控股公司，成立的目的是拥有和管理房地产资产。地址是纽 约市第五大道 667号五楼，邮编 10065。这是一个私人拥有的实体，不对公众进行营销，因此 目前没有网站。电话号码是 917-225-8178。电子邮件地址是 [email protected]。 Greenwich Land 的受益所有者是岳庆芝。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 143 / 152页 问：在第四项中银行请求 ACA Capital Group 与受益人 Greenwich Land 有限责任公司之间的关 系，客户的回应是什么？ 答：ACA是贷方，Greenwich Land是借方。 问：如果我们能缩小视图，洛夫特斯女士，并关注第五项的回应进入下一页。所以详细用途到结 尾。 问：威尔森女士，Miriam Colon 请求了以下付款的用途。2020 年 10 月 20 日，一笔金额为 999,913.22 美元的付款。这是我们刚刚在账户对账单中看到的付款吗？ 答：是的。 问：Miriam Colon 请求信息的第二笔付款是什么？ 答：2020 年 10 月 22 日，一笔金额为 3,999,935 美元的付款。这也是我们刚刚在对账单上看到 的来自 ACA 的另一笔付款。 问：然后看邮件的进一步部分，银行请求文件，Greenwich Land 对此请求的回应是什么？ 答：两笔交易都是贷款协议的一部分。请看附上的贷款协议。 问：银行请求在 14天内提供信息。你看到了吗？ 答：是的。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们再看看 Colon女士请求的日期是什么？ 答：2020 年 11 月 19 日。 问：我们可以放大并向上滚动邮件链。停一下，我们可以看到这封邮件。 问：2020 年 11 月 24 日，Miriam Colon发出了一封邮件，这封邮件说了什么？ 答：继续跟进。希望你今天过得好。请看 11 月 18 日发送的邮件。我需要向我的合规部门回 复。你能提供所请求的信息吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 144 / 152页 问：我们可以放大并再向上滚动。 问：Daniel Podhaskie 在什么日期回复了 Miriam Colon？ 答：在 24 日他说，谢谢你的跟进。我们会很快回复。 问：然后在 2020 年 12 月 1 日发生了什么？ 答：她再次请求跟进。 问：请向上滚动，洛夫特斯女士。 问：再看看第一页的底部，Daniel Podhaskie 在什么日期提供了所请求的信息？ 答：12 月 2 日。 问：请看看这页的顶部，洛夫特斯女士。特别是你写的邮件，威尔森女士。 问：你在这封邮件中写了什么？ 答：这是关于 Greenwich Land 和 ACA Capital之间的关系。这是我们从客户那里收到的回答。 我想跟进一下这些信息。我们可以在我回来时与我的助理在星期一一起讨论。 问：我们可以放大，并看看这封邮件的附件，洛夫特斯女士。向下几页。如果我们能放大顶部部 分。 问：威尔森女士，这是一份 Daniel Podhaskie 为回应银行的查询提供的文件吗？ 答：是的。 问：这份文件的标题是什么？ 答：贷款协议。 问：协议的日期是什么？ 答：2020 年 10 月 16 日。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 145 / 152页 问：看看第一方的名称，这些协议的双方是谁？ 答：ACA Capital Group 和 Greenwich Land 有限责任公司。 问：请放大，洛夫特斯女士。并关注第二项中的贷款。 问：威尔森女士，这段第一句话中提到的贷款金额是多少？ 答：五百万美元。 问：我们可以再放大一下，洛夫特斯女士。向下滚动，请。还有一页吗，还是到此为止？请放大 签名行。 问：哪个实体被列为代表 ACA Capital Group Limited签署的？ 答：Celestial Tide Limited。 问：Celestial Tide Limited是如何描述的？ 答：ACA Capital Group Limited 的董事。 问：好的，洛夫特斯女士，我们可以放下这个。 问：威尔森女士，有没有一次一个叫 G-Clubs Operations 的公司申请在普林斯顿银行开设账 户？ 答：有。 问：大约是什么时候？ 答：那是在九月底十月初。 问：哪一年？ 答：2020 年。 问：你是如何了解到这个账户申请的？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 146 / 152页 答：他们也是由同一个投资顾问带来的。 问：你是否对那个账户进行了 BSA 审查？ 答：是的。 问：你对 G-Clubs账户开设材料有什么记忆吗？ 答：开设文件显示他们在波多黎各成立，业务成立于波多黎各，并在波多黎各和纽约都有地址。 他们有他们的 SS4，但是要在业务账户上签名的人都不在业务成立文件上，受益人是一个非居 民外国人。 问：你提到 SS4，那指的是什么？ 答：SS4是他们的 EIN号码。也就是国税局 IRS发给企业的信件，分配一个 EIN号码，就像你 得到你的社会安全号码一样。这是他们的唯一标识符。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能公布政府附件 BOP-1吗？ 问：威尔森女士，这是不是你刚提到的 G-Clubs Operations账户的账户协议？ 答：是的。 问：我们可以关注顶部部分，洛夫特斯女士，左侧。这个账户所属机构的全名是什么？ 答：G-Clubs Operations 有限责任公司。 问：G-Clubs Operations 有限责任公司的地址是什么？ 答：纽约市第五大道 590号，21楼，邮编 10022。 问：现在地址下有手写注释。你看到了吗？ 答：是的。 问：那上面写了什么？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 147 / 152页 答：正确地址。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能同时调出作为证据的政府附件 SW-2009吗？如果我们能放大顶部部 分，看到那里列出的地址。 问：威尔森女士，你看到右边的邮件是发给谁的吗？ 答：[email protected]。 问：它发给了谁？ 答：王雁平。 问：看看右边那里，有一个叫“中心”的字段。你看到了吗？ 答：抱歉，再说一遍。 问：当然。在交易详情下有几个字段。在“中心”下列了什么？ 答：纽约市第五大道 590号，纽约市邮编 10022。 问：再向下两行，这笔交易的授权日期是什么？ 答：2020 年 10 月 14 日。 问：保持这个，洛夫特斯女士，看看左边普林斯顿银行 G-Clubs Operations账户协议，如果我 们能关注那里的所有者/签名人信息。 问：谁被列为这个账户的所有者/签名人？ 答：王雁平。 问：我们刚刚在顶部列出的地址，和右边文件上的地址是否相同？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 148 / 152页 问：我们可以缩小这个，洛夫特斯女士，并再看看 BOP-1。我们可以放下 SW-2009。让我们看 看第 3页，关注顶部部分。实际上，从文本的底部到底部右侧。 问：威尔森女士，账户开设的日期是什么？ 答：2020 年 10 月 30 日。 问：左上角，这个账户的第二个签名人是谁？ 答：Alex Hadjicharalambous。 问：这里列出的 Alex Hadjicharalambous 的职业是什么？ 答：主计长。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们看看第 8页。 问：再次，威尔森女士，这是什么类型的文件？ 答：这是有限责任公司授权决议。 问：看看这里，是什么公司的？ 答：G-Clubs Operations。 问：这个公司文件上 G-Clubs Operations 的地址是什么？ 答：纽约市第五大道 590号，21楼，邮编 10022。 问：你看到这里账户的两个签名人了吗？ 答：王雁平和 Alex H. 问：这些签名人与上面账户开设文档中列出的一样吗？ 答：是的。 问：我们看看第 13页，洛夫特斯女士。如果我们能关注那部分到底部。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 149 / 152页 问：这本护照的名字是什么？ 答：王雁平。 问：这本护照的签发国家是什么？ 答：中国。 问：如果我们能关注底部的手写信息，洛夫特斯女士。 问：这上面写了什么，威尔森女士？ 答：第二种身份证明，职业经理。 问：我们看看下一页，第 14页。 问：威尔森女士，这是信用卡的图片吗？ 答：是的。 问：为什么普林斯顿银行会在账户开设时收集信用卡扫描件？ 答：这可以用作个人的第二种身份证明。 问：这张信用卡上列出的名字是什么？ 答：纽约金泉。名字是王雁平。 问：我们看看第 21页。 问：再次，威尔森女士，这是 G-Clubs Operation账户的受益所有人证明吗？ 答：是的。 问：看着表格，开设账户的人列为 Alex H，对吗？ 答：对。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 150 / 152页 问：然后法定实体的名称和地址与我们在开设账户的文件中看到的一样，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：根据这份文件，G-Clubs 的最终受益所有人叫什么名字？ 答：何浩然。 问：你能拼一下这个名字吗？ 答：H-E，姓是 H-A-O-R-A-N。 问：看看地址栏，你能读出那个地址吗？ 答：79 East Works Drive Cofton, Hackett, UK。 问：如果我们能放大到日期部分。 问：这个表格提交的日期是什么？ 答：2020 年 10 月 29 日。 问：这是普林斯顿银行提供给 G-Clubs 的公司文件，对吗？ 答：是的，这是银行给他们填写的表格，用来说明他们的受益所有人是谁。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能看看第 25页吗？ 问：威尔森女士，这是什么类型的文件？ 答：这是 G-Clubs 的公司组织证书。 问：看看这个，G-Clubs 在哪里成立的？ 答：波多黎各。 问：在哪个日期？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 151 / 152页 答：2020 年 10 月 7 日。 法官说：好了，现在是下午 3点，我们今天的工作到此结束。陪审团成员们，记住你们 不能在自己之间或与其他人讨论此案。不要允许任何人在你们面前讨论此案。不要阅读、观看或 收听任何与本次审判主题有关的任何来源的信息。祝你们晚上愉快。明天早上 9点 30分准备好 进入法庭。谢谢。 法庭书记员说：陪审团退庭。 （陪审团不在场） 法官说：你可以离开了。不要讨论你的证词。 （证人暂时退场） （陪审团不在场） 法官说：请坐。我们预计明天谁会作证？ 莫里律师说：我们将继续听威尔森女士的证词，然后是我们之前讨论过的 Bitgo 员工罗 伯茨，然后是柯林斯。对于柯林斯先生，我们预计明天不会超过他的直接询问。但对于我们今天 早上提出的关于文件的问题，我们已经与辩护律师讨论过。我们的建议是，如果法庭同意，在极 不可能的情况下，我们明天完成了他的直接询问，我们将请求休庭，让辩方有周末的时间准备他 的交叉询问。再次强调，我认为这种时间安排极不可能。我怀疑他在一天结束时仍然会在直接询 问中。 法官说：还有其他事吗？ 莫里律师说：政府方没有其他事。 法官说：好的。请让证人明天上午 9点 29分到证人席。祝你们晚上愉快。 （休庭至 2024 年 6 月 14 日上午 9点）
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6D1GUO1 2024-6-13 庭审记录 第 152 / 152页 审问索引 被审问人: 吴敏然 由费根森律师直接询问 2393页 由舒里克律师交叉询问 2431页 由费根森律师重定向询问 2499页 由舒里克律师再交叉询问 2506页 由费根森律师再重定向询问 2513页 金伯利 埃斯皮诺萨 由芬克律师直接询问 2514页 由舒里克律师交叉询问 2530页 吉米 威尔森 由莫里律师直接询问 2536页 政府证物 附件��号 VNB1-3, IDB1, IDB3, IDB4, IDB7, SIG1, SIL4, SIL3, SIL40 被接收 2515页 附件编号 CAP623 和 CAP624 被接收 2516页 附件编号 BOP-16, BOP-7, BOP-1, BOP-2, BOP-3 和 BOP-4 被接收 2542页 附件编号 BOP-12 和 BOP-10 被接收 2551页 附件编号 VN-12 被接收 附件编号 Z12 被接收 附件编号 VN13 被接收 附件编号 VN-37 被接收 2410页 附件编号 VN39 被接收 2394页 附件编号 BOP-40 被接收 2554页 附件编号 BR451 和 BR452 被接收 2515页 被告证物 附件编号 7003 被接收 2509页
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