Original Court Transcript(原始庭审记录)
2774
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O6H1GUO1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
v. 23 Cr. 118 (AT)
MILES GUO,
Defendant. Trial
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New York, N.Y.
June 17, 2024
9:30 a.m.
Before:
HON. ANALISA TORRES,
District Judge
-and a Jury-
APPEARANCES
DAMIAN WILLIAMS
United States Attorney for the
Southern District of New York
BY: RYAN B. FINKEL
JULIANA N. MURRAY
Assistant United States Attorneys
SABRINA P. SHROFF
Attorney for Defendant
PRYOR CASHMAN LLP
Attorneys for Defendant
BY: SIDHARDHA KAMARAJU
MATTHEW BARKAN
CLARE P. TILTON
ALSO PRESENT:
Isabel Loftus, Paralegal Specialist, USAO
Robert Stout, Special Agent, FBI
Ruben Montilla, Defense Paralegal
Tuo Huang, Interpreter (Mandarin)
Shi Feng, Interpreter (Mandarin)
Yu Mark Tang, Interpreter (Mandarin)
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O6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct
(Trial resumed; jury not present)
THE COURT: Good morning. Please make your
appearances.
MR. FINKEL: Good morning, your Honor, Ryan Finkel and
Juliana Murray for the government. We're joined at counsel
table by Isabel Loftus and Special Agent Robert Stout.
MR. KAMARAJU: Good morning, your Honor, Sidhardha
Kamaraju, Sabrina Shroff, Matthew Barkan, and Clare Tilton on
behalf of Mr. Guo, who is seated at counsel's table with us.
THE COURT: Please have the jurors brought in.
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Please be seated.
Good morning, jurors, and welcome back.
THE JURORS: Good morning.
THE COURT: We will now continue with the direct
examination of Mr. Collins.
You may inquire.
MR. FINKEL: Thank you, your Honor.
JAMES ROBERT COLLINS JR., resumed.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Good morning, sir.
A. Good morning.
Q. So I remind you, you're still under oath, okay?
A. Yes.
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O6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct
MR. FINKEL: If we can please display for the witness
what's been marked for identification as Government
Exhibit 113.
Q. Mr. Collins, who is depicted in Government Exhibit 113?
A. I don't remember his name, but he was held out as the
president of the Himalaya Exchange.
MR. FINKEL: If we can please display what's in
evidence as Government Exhibit BR208A.
Can you scroll down, please, Ms. Loftus.
Can you zoom in on the bottom.
Q. Mr. Collins, please take a look at that and let me know if
it refreshes your recollection.
A. It does.
MR. FINKEL: And if we could please go back,
Ms. Loftus, to Government Exhibit 113.
Q. Who is the individual depicted in Government Exhibit 113?
A. Jesse Brown.
MR. FINKEL: Government offers 113.
MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit 113 received in evidence)
MR. FINKEL: If you could publish that, please.
Q. Mr. Collins, you said that this individual, Jesse Brown,
was held out as the president of the Himalaya Exchange. Can
you explain to the jury what you mean by that.
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A. He represented that that was his title. Other team members
in the Himalaya Exchange referenced him that way also.
Q. Who?
A. Jesse Brown.
Q. What did William Je, if anything, say about Jesse Brown's
role at the Himalaya Exchange?
A. Other than——other than handing, you know, discussing his
title, we didn't have a lot of discussion about Jesse.
Q. Where was Jesse Brown located, to your knowledge?
A. The British Virgin Islands.
Q. Did you have an understanding about why Mr. Brown was
located in the British Virgin Islands?
A. I believe the type of license they had in the BVI required
an officer, if not the main officer, to be located there.
Q. Approximately how many interactions did you have personally
with Mr. Brown concerning the Himalaya Exchange?
A. In a group or just one on one?
Q. Either.
A. All combined, probably three or four.
Q. Who did you primarily interact with regarding the Himalaya
Exchange?
A. William Je, Georgette Adonis-Roberts, and Priya Patel.
THE COURT: Mr. Finkel, if you would get closer to the
microphone, please.
MR. FINKEL: Yes, your Honor.
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O6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct
Q. And Mr. Collins, what was your understanding of who ran the
Himalaya Exchange?
A. It is clear to me that William Je was running the business.
Q. And why was it clear to you that William Je was running the
Himalaya Exchange?
A. People deferred to him ultimately on pretty much any
decision that was made around Himalaya Exchange.
MR. FINKEL: If we can please display Government
Exhibit 103.
Q. Mr. Collins, did there come a time, if ever, where you met
Mr. Je in person?
A. Yes.
Q. And where did you meet him?
A. I met him in their offices just outside of London.
Q. Whose offices just outside of London?
A. Himalaya Exchange.
Q. And when, approximately, was that?
A. Approximately the fall of '21.
Q. And can you describe, please, to the jury the nature of
your conversation with Mr. Je about the Himalaya Exchange in
his London offices.
A. He was excited to tell us about their offering; they were
just in the midst of launching the Himalaya Coin, and the
Himalaya Dollar, which was both listed on the exchange. He was
very much engaged in taking advantage of the market interest in
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digital assets, and they held out this exchange as being the
next big thing.
Q. What do you mean he was interested in taking advantage of
the market in digital assets, at that time?
A. There was a lot of interest generically, publicly,
globally, in investing in digital assets.
Q. And when you say "digital assets," based on your
understanding in the fall of 2021, can you give some examples.
A. Well, the biggest digital asset and perhaps the most
notable is Bitcoin. It's often referred——the market is often
referred to as crypto. Ethereum is another coin. There's I
think currently 20,000 different coins listed.
Q. At the time that you had this meeting with Mr. Je in
London, had you heard of the Himalaya Coin?
A. No.
Q. Had you heard of the Himalaya Dollar?
A. No.
Q. And to your knowledge at that time was the Himalaya Coin or
Himalaya Dollar available on any other cryptocurrency exchange?
A. Not that I'm aware of.
Q. Did you have any conversations with Mr. Je at that time
about Miles Guo?
A. I believe I mentioned that we had informed their staff that
we had concerns about Miles's profile, and I asked him to
confirm that Miles's money wasn't involved in the accounts that
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we would be onboarding, and that Miles was not in any way a
control person of the enterprises.
Q. And what did Mr. Je say in response to your request for
confirmation that Miles Guo was not in any way a control person
of the enterprise?
A. He confirmed that Miles was not a UBO or that his money was
being used in the exchange.
THE COURT: What does UBO mean?
THE WITNESS: Ultimate beneficial owner. It's sort of
a Bank Secrecy Act term of art.
Q. Did Mr. Je explain anything about whether the Himalaya
Dollar was backed by gold?
A. He did not mention that.
Q. Did you meet with an individual named Priya Patel when you
were in London?
A. Yes.
Q. Who is Priya Patel?
A. Priya Patel was held out as the most senior legal officer
of the company.
Q. Which company?
A. The ones I know about are Hamilton, the various funds run
by Hamilton, and the Himalaya Exchange.
Q. What is your understanding of what Hamilton was?
A. There were several different entities that utilized the
name Hamilton. So for example, Hamilton special Opportunities
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Fund, that collection of Hamilton entities generally was, from
my understanding, investment vehicles that were investing
William and his investors' money.
Q. And what was your understanding of who ran the Hamilton
entities?
A. William.
Q. William, what's the last name?
A. William Je.
Q. Did you review——well, withdrawn.
MR. FINKEL: Ms. Loftus, if we can play for the
witness and the jury what's in evidence——but outside of Trial
Director, please——GX C370-V.
Play just a few seconds of that, please.
(Video displayed)
MR. FINKEL: Can you pause that, please.
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Mr. Collins, around the time that Mercantile Bank was
considering onboarding the Himalaya Exchange as a client, did
you watch this video?
A. I watched a few videos. This seems familiar.
MR. FINKEL: You could play it, please, Ms. Loftus.
(Video displayed)
MR. FINKEL: You can stop there.
Q. Mr. Collins, at the time you watched this video what was
your reaction to it, if any?
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A. I saw it as pure marketing. I didn't really have a strong
reaction one way or the other.
Q. In making a decision to onboard a client, does Mercantile
Bank consider marketing of a client?
A. Sometimes.
Q. Did you in this case?
A. I believe we did holistically, in conjunction with my Bank
Secrecy Act team.
Q. Mr. Collins, there is a phrase in this video that we just
watched that says "to the moon." Did you see that and hear
that?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you familiar with that phrase, "to the moon"?
A. I mean, it's from an old black-and-white TV series, but
yes.
Q. What about in the context of cryptocurrency, are you
familiar with the phrase "to the moon"?
A. Somewhat.
Q. What does it mean?
A. It means that the price will go infinitely high.
Q. And is that a phrase that people in the cryptocurrency
community use, "to the moon"?
A. I've heard it before.
MR. FINKEL: We can take that down, Ms. Loftus.
Q. Mr. Collins, did ultimately Mercantile Bank take on the
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Himalaya Exchange as a client?
A. Yes.
Q. And approximately how many bank accounts did the Himalaya
Exchange open with your bank?
A. I don't recall the specific number, but somewhere between
four and six.
Q. And when you took on the Himalaya Exchange as a client, did
you believe the Himalaya Exchange was a legitimate business?
A. Yes.
Q. Did Mercantile Bank store gold for the Himalaya Exchange?
A. No.
Q. Did there come a time, if ever, when G/CLUBS transferred
money into a Himalaya Exchange bank account?
A. I believe so.
MR. FINKEL: If we can please display for the witness
what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit
MER1203.
Q. Do you see it on your monitor, Mr. Collins?
A. Yes.
Q. Please take a look at that and let me know what Government
Exhibit MER1203 is.
A. Can you——can I read it from the bottom up.
Q. Sure.
A. There we go. That's good.
Okay.
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Q. What is MER1203?
A. This is me facilitating a movement from G Club to the
Himalaya Exchange.
Q. And who was making that request, for the movement?
A. Alex H.
Q. And he works for what company, based on your understanding?
A. G Club.
MR. FINKEL: Government offers MER1203.
MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit MER1203 received in evidence)
MR. FINKEL: Could we publish that, please,
Ms. Loftus. You can scroll to the bottom while that's coming
up.
THE COURT: Sir, when you say a movement, what do you
mean?
THE WITNESS: A wire transfer.
THE COURT: If you would speak up, please.
THE WITNESS: A wire transfer.
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Mr. Collins, can you read the email at the, well, now the
top of your screen, December 1, 2021, from Alex H to Georgette
and you, beginning with, "I was told."
A. Okay.
Q. Can you read that, please.
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O6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct
A. You want me to read the email?
Q. Yeah, from "I was told."
A. Out loud?
Q. Yes, please.
A. Okay. "I was told the account is open and ready to accept
funds.
"Can you please share the wire information for
Himalaya International Clearing Ltd account at Mercantile so I
may schedule transfer of 50mm USD."
MR. FINKEL: If we can scroll up, please.
Q. And what do you say in response to that email?
A. "Would you like me to facilitate this.
"I don't want to share your account numbers/details
with him without your approval."
That was my comment to Georgette.
MR. FINKEL: If we can scroll up again, please,
Ms. Loftus.
Q. And after Georgette responds, "This will need to be
facilitated through the CFO," Mr. Collins, can you read what
you wrote back.
A. "Sounds good. John, can you work with Mahsud for this
authorization (communicating to directly G Club the wiring
instructions with Himalaya's account number) so that G Club can
move money from the G Club account to the Himalaya account that
is already open for their purchase of coins."
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MR. FINKEL: If we can please display for the witness
what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit
MER1204.
Q. Did there come a time, if ever, Mr. Collins——while that's
coming up——that Mr. Je asked for help with what he called VIP
clients?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you see that document on your screen, sir?
A. It's just a header, yes.
MR. FINKEL: Can you scroll down, please, Ms. Loftus.
Q. Mr. Collins, what is this document, MER1204?
A. It looks like a series of messages between me and William.
MR. FINKEL: Government offers MER1204.
MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit MER1204 received in evidence)
MR. FINKEL: If we could publish that, please.
Q. Mr. Collins, what's the month and year of these messages
between you and Mr. Je?
A. March of 2022.
Q. And can you read your third message at 5:45 p.m. on
March 17, 2022.
A. "There is NO universe that I will be carrying 100 mill of
BTC on a thumb drive to Dubai."
Q. What is BTC?
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A. That's the acronym for Bitcoin.
Q. Why did you write "There is NO universe that I will be
carrying 100 mill of BTC Bitcoin on a thumb drive to Dubai"?
Why did you send that to William Je?
A. In a discussion about——when we were having these messages,
William asked me the question, if I'd be open to that.
Q. Open to what?
A. Carrying a hundred million dollars of BTC on a thumb drive.
Q. Did he provide any information, did William Je provide any
information why he wanted you to do that?
A. No.
Q. Why did you decline?
A. There's many reasons. Perhaps first and foremost is my
personal safety; second is, that would sidestep every single
BSI——BSA requirement; and I'm pretty sure——I don't remember
when laws were exactly passed, but it may have been a felony to
transmit or to carry more than $10,000 of value across the
border without disclosing it.
Q. So you declined.
A. Yes.
MR. FINKEL: Okay. We can scroll down, please,
Ms. Loftus.
Right there.
Q. So on March 17, 2022, at 11:38 p.m., can you read what
William Je messaged you.
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A. I'm sorry. At what time?
Q. 11:38 p.m.
A. You want me to read it?
Q. Yes, please.
A. "Hi, could you help to check if the below account has been
opened? If not, any outstanding issue?
"-UK Himalaya Ltd.
"-Director: Jianfeng Dai."
His email, and then he says "Thanks."
Q. Do you know who David Dai is?
A. I don't recall that person.
Q. What was your understanding of why William Je was asking
you about this individual, Mr. Dai?
A. I don't recall that we really spoke about him. I think he
is the signatory for UK Himalaya Ltd., and that would have——I'm
not sure we ever discussed the purpose of that operating
entity's account.
MR. FINKEL: We can take that down.
Q. Mr. Collins, did there come a time, if ever, when William
Je asked for your help in making a money transfer related to a
loan?
A. Yes.
Q. And when approximately was that?
A. I remember it around Easter of '22.
Q. And what did Mr. Je tell you about this loan?
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A. The loan was being made to an escrow account related to the
bankruptcy of Mr. Guo as security for a substantial piece of
collateral that they had moved from the United States to the
Mediterranean, being a large yacht, and the loan was to satisfy
the court's demand in time because they didn't have time to
steam the yacht back to America, and it was a short-term loan
to facilitate Mr. Guo's freedom.
Q. What do you mean by that?
A. I was told that if the loan wasn't facilitated right away,
that he would be imprisoned.
Q. Mr. Guo?
A. Yes.
Q. And Mr. Je told you that?
A. Yes.
Q. And what was the collateral? Can you explain how that
works, in your understanding of it, based on this conversation
with Mr. Je.
A. So in the normal lending arrangement, the lender will take
collateral as security for the loan, so if the loan doesn't get
repaid, they can foreclose on that collateral and sell it to
pay the loan.
Q. And so what was the issue with collateral being moved out
of the country? Can you explain that.
A. My understanding——I'm not an attorney, but——the bankruptcy
trustee was upset that some significant assets of the estate
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had been moved outside of USA jurisdictional reach.
Q. Whose estate?
A. Mr. Guo's.
Q. Bankruptcy attorney for what bankruptcy?
A. Mr. Guo's.
Q. What kind of asset was moved out of the jurisdiction, based
on your understanding from the conversation?
A. The yacht.
Q. What yacht?
A. I don't remember the name of it.
Q. And so how would this loan sort of solve Mr. Je and
Mr. Guo's problem?
MR. KAMARAJU: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. How would this loan facilitate this issue, based on what
Mr. Je told you?
MR. KAMARAJU: Same objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Was there a request for a loan?
THE WITNESS: The request was not a loan from me. The
loan that was being made was by William Je and his——one of his
companies to a relative of Miles Guo, who I think was listed as
the owner at the bank, but the trustee had identified this
yacht as a substantial asset of the estate.
BY MR. FINKEL:
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Q. So what was Mercantile's role with respect to this
potential loan, if it wasn't a loan from you?
A. We were just wiring money under the control of William Je
to the escrow account of an attorney involved in the case.
Q. And the William Je account, do you know what business it
was associated with?
A. I vaguely remember it was one of the Himalaya entities, but
I don't recall specifically.
Q. And when you say Himalaya entities, entities of what?
A. One of the Himalaya companies that had an account with us.
Q. Meaning the Himalaya Exchange?
A. Yes.
Q. At the time did this seem like a reasonable business
transaction?
A. It was unusual, but it seemed reasonable.
Q. And you said that there was a woman involved in the
process?
A. Yes, the——I don't recall——I didn't see the actual title
work to the yacht, but my understanding was the loan was made
to the bankruptcy at——well, I don't remember who the signatory
of the loan was, but it was somebody I'd never met before. It
was held out as a relative of Miles Guo, whose name I think was
actually on the yacht title.
Q. And did Mercantile Bank facilitate this wire payment from
the Himalaya entity to an escrow account for this loan?
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A. Yes. Yes.
Q. Okay.
MR. FINKEL: Government offers, pursuant to the——may I
have a second.
(Counsel conferring)
MR. FINKEL: Pursuant to a stipulation regarding bank
record documents, the government offers GX MER138.
MR. KAMARAJU: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit MER138 received in evidence)
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. By the way, Mr. Collins, what did William Je tell you, if
anything, about the nature of his relationship with Miles Guo?
A. Do you have a specific point in time in mind or——
Q. In general.
A. He mentioned that Miles Guo was his best friend, that Miles
trusted him more than any individual in the world, and that
they were very close.
Q. Can you see on your screen Government Exhibit MER138? I
think it's published, but——
A. Yeah.
Q. What type of document is this? You recognize the
formatting?
A. Looks like a monthly statement from Mercantile Bank.
Q. And what's the name of the entity whose monthly statement
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this is?
A. Himalaya International Financial Group Ltd.
Q. And is that one of the Himalaya/William Je accounts?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you see where in the amount it says minus
37 million?
A. Yes.
Q. What is that?
A. I believe that's the amount that we wired related to the
yacht and the loan in the escrow account.
Q. And it also says Zeisler & Zeisler, PC IOLTA account. Do
you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. What is your understanding of what that means, Zeisler &
Zeisler, PC IOLTA account?
A. That's the escrow account I've been referencing.
Q. And so the $37 million wire was the loan that you spoke
about prior?
A. That was a loan William and Himalaya made to Miles Guo.
Q. After the loan was processed, what reaction, if any, did
Mr. Je have?
A. I just want to correct what I just said. I don't know the
loan was made to Miles Guo. It was related to Miles Guo's
bankruptcy estate, but technically I think the loan was made to
another person.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct
Q. Okay. What was Mr. Je's reaction after this wire was
processed, if any?
A. His reaction after it was processed? I think he was
grateful that we were able to process this so quickly.
MR. FINKEL: You can take that down, Ms. Loftus.
Q. Aside from the business that the Himalaya Exchange had with
Mercantile Bank, what other business discussions, if any, did
you have with William Je?
A. Maybe you can narrow that question down for me.
Q. Did you contemplate entering into a business transaction
with Mr. Je aside from opening accounts at Mercantile Bank?
A. Yes.
Q. What was the nature of that transaction?
A. We discussed, early in the relationship, investing in the
exchange——I'm sorry——in our bank——technically our holding
company——which he did, initial investment. And then that
conversation grew to much larger conversation about essentially
buying a controlling interest in the bank.
Q. I'm sorry. Who was that who was contemplating buying a
controlling interest in the bank?
A. William Je, through one of his entities called I think
Hamilton Special Opportunities Fund.
Q. And when you say the bank, you mean Mercantile?
A. Yes.
Q. How far advanced did those negotiations get about selling a
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct
controlling interest in Mercantile Bank to William Je's
company?
A. They resulted in an actual closing on September 16th,
according to what we had agreed to, the terms.
Q. And what was the approximate price that Mr. Je was willing
to pay for a controlling interest in Mercantile?
A. Ultimately he would be investing almost a hundred million
dollars. The first tranche was 49½ million.
Q. Is there a regulator who regulates Mercantile Bank?
A. Yes.
Q. And what's the name of that regulator?
A. Our prudential regulator, if you will, is a firm who's most
easily referenced as their acronym, called OCIF, O-C-I-F. It's
the agency, the banking agency of Puerto Rico.
Q. In connection with the potential purchase of Mercantile
Bank by William Je, was Mr. Je required to make any
representations to OCIF?
A. Yes.
Q. About Miles Guo?
A. About many things, but——
Q. Were some of those representations that Mr. Je was required
to make to OCIF about Miles Guo?
A. Yes.
Q. And what did Mr. Je represent to OCIF about Miles Guo, if
anything?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct
A. That Miles was not a UBO, that none of the money involved
in the fund that was actually making the investment was part of
Miles Guo's money or estate.
Q. To your knowledge did he make those representations?
A. Yes.
Q. When was this transaction supposed to close, the sale of
Mercantile to Hamilton Special Opportunities?
A. The original closing date was set for August 24th, and we
had to extend that to September 16th.
THE COURT: Of what year?
THE WITNESS: Of 2022.
Q. Did the transaction close on September 16th of 2022?
A. Yes.
Q. Did Mercantile receive final payment on September 16, 2022?
A. No.
Q. How much was Mercantile expecting to receive on
September 16, 2022?
A. $49½ million.
Q. Why did Mercantile not obtain $49½ million on September 16,
2022?
A. Why didn't we receive it?
Q. Yeah.
A. The money was seized in transit by the U.S. Marshals.
Q. And how did you learn about that?
A. Well——
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct
Q. At first.
A. The wire was initiated on a Friday afternoon in the United
States, and we weren't surprised that it hadn't cleared that
day, just because it was late in the day. So Monday, we were
looking for the wire. We were in London at the time. And the
wire wasn't showing up. It didn't show up on Tuesday. I think
by Wednesday, we realized that there was some sort of problem.
Q. Did you speak with Mr. Je about the potential problem?
A. Yes.
Q. And what did he say?
A. He said they hadn't had any communications from their
banks, that they didn't have any knowledge about why the wire
had not cleared, and I asked them to look into it, and I also
asked them if I could look into it.
Q. Did you?
A. I did.
Q. What did you learn?
A. I happened to know the CEO of Silvergate Bank, which is
where the wire initiated from, so I called him, and we had a
brief conversation, wondering where the wire was, and he didn't
know anything about it, so he said he would look into it. And
the next day I got an email from him saying that he was not in
a position to discuss the account any further and that he——that
I should ask the account owners to contact them immediately.
Q. Did you do that?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct
A. I did.
Q. What happened next?
A. William and Priya reached out to them, I think they had a
phone call, and it was then that it was revealed that the wire
had been seized.
Q. After the seizure, did Mr. Je make any requests concerning
the Himalaya Exchange?
A. I don't——I mean, there were many conversations and several
requests, so maybe you could narrow it down for me.
Q. Sure.
MR. FINKEL: If we can display for the witness what's
been marked for identification as Government Exhibit MER1205.
If you can scroll down so Mr. Collins can take a look
at this, please.
Q. What is MER1205, this document, Mr. Collins?
A. This is a series of WhatsApp communications between me and
William Je.
Q. What's the date?
A. September 23, 2022.
MR. FINKEL: Government offers MER1205.
MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit MER1205 received in evidence)
MR. FINKEL: Could we publish that, please.
And we can zoom in at the top, please, Ms. Loftus.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct
That's fine.
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. So the first message says, "I will speak to Mahsud at 11."
Is that correct? That's from you?
A. Yes.
Q. Who is Mahsud?
A. Ehsan Mahsud is the——was held out as the CFO of Himalaya
Exchange.
Q. And why did you ask is he aware of what is happening?
A. These are——for me, these are incredibly unusual
circumstances, and I didn't want to be in a position of saying
something out of——out of place with the wrong person at the
wrong time, partly because of commercial liability, and so I
just wanted to understand what Ehsan understood about what was
happening around them, because it was——it was a very confusing
time, there was——there was a lot of information flowing around
that was extreme, and I just wanted to be careful.
(Continued on the next page)
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2800
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. I'm just going to ask you to move the mic somewhat down a
bit so everyone can hear you.
Mr. Collins, when you said aware of what is happening,
what does the "what" refer to?
A. Several things. That Silvergate funds were frozen or
seized. We had learned that FV bank, another bank that we were
familiar with had also had a major seizure related to the
Himalaya universe, and we didn't know what else was out there.
Generically I would just say, my question was, is he aware of
what's happening related to the seizures, because even the most
senior executives were not necessarily aware in realtime.
Q. And then a couple of messages below William Je at 9:03 a.m.
says, We are just doing normal redemption of a client. Thanks.
Did I read that right?
A. Yes.
Q. What was your understanding of what that meant?
A. A redemption typically means that they were substituting
HDO for cash or HCN for cash.
Q. Why, based on your understanding, was Mr. Je talking about
a normal redemption of a client at this time?
MR. KAMARAJU: Objection.
THE COURT: You may state what your understanding of
the statement was.
A. Well, my understanding is that he wanted to redeem, at this
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct
point in time, that he wanted to redeem one of the coins on the
Himalaya Exchange for U.S. dollars related to a normal client.
Q. At that time after the seizure first, did Mr. Je identify
who that client was?
A. Not at first.
Q. How did he describe that client at first, Mr. Je?
A. He described him as -- well, he just said a normal
redemption of a client, and I believe later he mentioned it was
a VIP client.
Q. And what was the amount of the redemption that Mr. Je
sought for this client shortly after the seizure from the banks
that you mentioned?
A. Somewhere between 42 and 50 thousand -- $50 million.
Q. Did Mr. Je provide documents to facilitate this redemption
to Mercantile bank?
A. Yes.
THE COURT: In a redemption, the money goes from where
to where?
THE WITNESS: I would say there's a nomenclature
problem here in the sense that, what he's calling a redemption
here, we would think of as a trade, so he is selling his HCN
for U.S. dollars. He's calling it a redemption because they
happen to control the platform, and so they can redeem it by
picking a value. But later I believe they sent us what we
would call trade confirmations that actually show that it's
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct
more similar to a trade than a redemption.
Q. To redeem, if a redemption or trade is going to be
processed, what sort of the real world event that Mercantile
would facilitate?
A. Well, our role in what he's referring to as redemption is
simply the wiring of the money. We're not involved in the
transaction. We're not involved in the mechanics of the
redemption. We just respond to the request. We ask for
supporting documentation because that fulfills our bank's
Secrecy Act requirements.
Q. If we can take that down, Ms. Loftus, and display for the
witness what's been marked as Government Exhibit MER-5 and
MER-6 for the witness.
Mr. Collins, who signed these documents?
A. William Je.
Q. What are these documents?
A. These are what I would call a trade confirmation.
Q. And does this pertain to the trade we were just discussing?
A. Yes.
MR. FINKEL: Government offers MER-5 and 6.
MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.
THE COURT: They are admitted.
(Government's Exhibits MER-5 and MER-6 received in
evidence)
BY MR. FINKEL:
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2803
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct
Q. Can we publish please, Ms. Loftus.
Mr. Collins, what is your understanding about why
Mercantile was provided these two documents that you said were
trade confirmations?
A. I presume this was part of our document collection related
to our compliance function.
Q. And on the left side of the screen it says seller sales
1,308,000 and some more HCN at 24.46 per HCN, seller receives
32 million HDO. Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. What was your understanding of what that meant?
A. That meant the seller, which is listed just below, it says
the name of the seller account William K. Je@ACap.com was
selling HDO -- I'm sorry. He was selling HCN in exchange for
HDO.
Q. And what was HDO described to you as?
A. A stable dollar. I'm sorry, a stable coin.
Q. What was the price of HDO described to you as?
A. The price was always equal to one, because it was backed
one to one by the stable -- I'm sorry, by the U.S. dollar.
Q. And HCN was described to you as what?
A. HCN is a digital asset that is more akin to a true crypto
coin like Bitcoin.
Q. And that's how it was described to you?
A. Yes.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct
Q. So by selling this HCN, it says seller receives 32 million
HDO, what's the U.S. dollar value of that?
A. $32 million.
Q. And then seeing the name of the seller account, did that
provide any information to Mercantile about who this VIP client
was?
A. I believe our compliance department would have picked up on
it at the time.
Q. And so who was this VIP client that Mr. Je said he was
helping redeem?
A. It's William K -- well, it's either William Je or a firm
called ACA Capital.
Q. And the document on the right side of the screen where it
says seller sells 572,000 and change at HCN, seller receives 14
million HDO, what is your understanding of the U.S. dollar
value of that 14 million HDO?
A. 14 million.
Q. So 32 million plus 14 million is how much?
A. 46 million.
Q. Is that the amount of money William Je was requesting to be
transferred shortly after the bank seizure?
A. Yes.
Q. Upon learning that the client -- excuse me. Upon learning
that the client for this transfer, this redemption, was William
Je or ACA Cap, what reaction did you have to that, if any?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct
A. I don't recall a specific reaction other than being annoyed
that it wasn't forthcoming from the beginning.
Q. That what wasn't forthcoming?
A. That this was an account controlled by him.
Q. That who just said this was an account --
A. I'm sorry, William Je.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we can please put back up MER-1205. Can we
go to the next page, please. Can you zoom in from the 9:03
a.m. line.
At 9:03 a.m. Mr. Je says, We are just doing normal
redemption of a client, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. What was your understanding of that redemption referred to
what transaction, if any?
A. The transaction we just reviewed.
Q. And a few lines down at 12:31 p.m. Mr. Je says, What
documents you need for ACA? I can send you all. Do you see
that, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. What's your understanding of why Mr. Je was asking what
documents you needed for ACA?
MR. KAMARAJU: Objection.
THE COURT: I'll allow the question.
A. Can you ask the question again.
Q. What was your understanding why Mr. Je was asking you what
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct
documents you, Mr. Collins, needed for ACA?
A. William knew that we ran a rigorous compliance function.
And in order for us to send a transaction of that size, we
would have to do what we would call KYC on the receiver as well
as the sender which we had already done.
THE COURT: What do you mean by KYC?
THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. A Know Your Customer. It's
a reference to being sure that you understand the bona fides of
who's receiving $50 million, well, 46.
Q. At this time, what was your understanding of what ACA was?
A. I had come across ACA in some news articles early on in the
relationship and didn't know much about it other than it was an
entity facilitated with William Je, so that's all.
Q. At the time you were having this conversation, September
23, 2022, shortly after the bank seizure, the wire seizure,
were you contemplating processing this transaction that Mr. Je
was requesting?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. It was clear that something was amiss. At that point in
time we counted approximately $1.2 billion that had been seized
by the U.S. government between two other banks.
Q. Mr. Collins, why then were you requesting documentation
from Mr. Je if you weren't going to process this transfer?
A. Well, we have a commercial responsibility to consider
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2807
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct
request, and we were doing that.
Q. If we can scroll down a little bit please, Ms. Loftus.
At 1:37 p.m., can you read what Mr. Je wrote?
A. 1:37 p.m.?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. Okay. I could send you all the documents to show that I
own ACA. Do you still need to go through your portal? We need
the execution today or it is meaningless.
Q. At the time what was your understanding of why it had to be
executed today or it was meaningless?
A. I had no understanding of that. I was confused by the
term.
Q. Why were you confused by the term "meaningless?"
A. Because it didn't -- from my perspective it didn't appear
meaningless.
Q. Can we scroll down some more, Ms. Loftus.
Can you read what Mr. Je wrote at 4:03 p.m. on
9/23/2022?
A. Send you all the ACA stuff. I have some updated
information in Hong Kong, but I think the information is more
than enough. We are just redeeming.
Q. What did you understand the term to mean "just redeeming?"
A. They were liquidating their holdings for dollars.
Q. And then at 4:50 p.m., can you read what Mr. Je wrote?
A. Masud does not know about ACA. If any questions, call me.
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2808
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct
Thanks.
Q. Can you read what Mr. Je wrote at 8:12 p.m. on that same
day, September 23?
A. Please let me know if you need further information. We are
redeeming and need to be done today. Other, it is meaningless.
Q. After the wire was seized, did Mr. Je explain to you what
the urgency was with respect to this redemption?
A. No.
Q. You can take that down. If we can display please what's
been marked as Government Exhibit MER-8.
By the way, in any of those messages that we just
looked at, did Mr. Je blame the Chinese Communist Party for the
troubles he was having with banking?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Can you see on your screen MER-8?
A. Yes.
Q. Take a look at that document. Who signed it?
A. William Je.
Q. What is this document?
A. This looks like it's called a redemption request form, but
it's really a request to wire funds.
MR. FINKEL: Government offers MER-8.
MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit MER-8 received in evidence)
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. You said it's a redemption request form, but it's really
what?
A. It's a request to transfer funds to a bank called First Abu
Dhabi Bank.
Q. And what is the account holder of the First Abu Dhabi bank
account?
A. ACA Capital Group Limited.
Q. Where is First Abu Dhabi bank located?
A. Abu Dhabi in the UAE.
Q. You can zoom out of that. It says at the bottom HDO
redemption amount. You see that?
A. Yes.
Q. That amount 46 million HDO, what is your understanding at
that time of how much in U.S. dollars that was worth?
A. $46 million.
Q. And this 46 million, does it pertain to the transaction
documents that we've looked at in the chats you were having
with Mr. Je at the time?
A. Yes.
Q. What effect, if any, did the fact that Mr. Je's request to
send this $46 million to the Middle East have on you as a
banker?
A. I'm sorry. Could you ask the question again.
Q. The fact that Mr. Je was requesting the $46 million be sent
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct
to Abu Dhabi after this wire seizure related to this redemption
for a client he didn't identify at first, what effect did that
have on you in your consideration whether to process this wire?
MR. KAMARAJU: Objection, form and compound.
THE COURT: Sustained. It's compound.
Q. What effect did the fact that Mr. Je was requesting you
send this wire to Abu Dhabi have on consideration whether to
process it as a banker?
A. It felt uncomfortable. It appeared to be an attempt to
move money outside of the jurisdiction of the United States.
We're not clear on the various agreements between UAE and the
United States, but it's known to be a jurisdiction that doesn't
always cooperate with seizures.
Q. Did you process the wire?
A. No.
Q. We can display what's been marked for identification as
MER-1206. Go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus. Can you
zoom in so, Mr. Collins can see it. Thank you.
What is this document?
A. This is more messages between me and William.
MR. FINKEL: Government offers MER-1206.
MR. KAMARAJU: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
MR. FINKEL: If we could publish that please.
(Government's Exhibit MER-1206 received)
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. If we could publish that please. What's the date of these
messages?
A. September 24, 2022.
Q. Can you read Mr. Je's message to you at 11:14 p.m.?
A. Yes. Hi, Bo, Rene, Priya and our lawyer spoke today. Our
lawyer's negotiating with the DOJ and releasing the funds money
to complete the transaction. We need a simple letter from your
bank to show that you will suffer if the deal did not go
through. If you want to inform the PMA on the matter, we are
okay. I can assure you that none of the money comes from Miles
and our independent fund administrator. Our internal
compliance and the banking regulator have verified this
already. Rene seems to doubt about this and even asked our
lawyers on this. This will jeopardize our relationship with
our lawyer.
Q. Who is Rene?
A. Rene Carson is the general counsel of MGH and MBI.
Q. Meaning Mercantile?
A. Yes.
Q. What's the nature of your relationship with Rene Carson
aside from her being the general counsel?
A. She's my wife.
Q. And then here it says, Want to inform PMA, what's PMA?
A. PMA is a law firm based in Puerto Rico that represented
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2812
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct
Hamilton Opportunity Fund.
Q. What was your understanding of what Mr. Je meant when he
messaged you, Rene seems to doubt about this and even asked our
lawyers on this. This will jeopardize our relationship with
our lawyer?
A. He was responding to my message above that says, I'm
shocked at what I just heard, which was that he didn't want us
giving notice, which we were required to give in our commercial
agreement, of the closing of any sort of default. So he did
not want us communicating with PMA about the circumstances of
this event.
Q. Who is he, whose the "he?"
A. William and Priya did not want us communicating with their
attorneys about the circumstances of this event.
Q. When you say this event, what do you mean?
A. The seizures.
Q. Did Mr. Je explain to you why he didn't want Mercantile
communicating with Je's lawyers about the seizure?
A. He wrote in the bottom that it would jeopardize our
relationship with our lawyer.
Q. Did Je explain why the seizure would jeopardize their
relationship with their lawyer?
A. He didn't offer me details.
Q. In this message Mr. Je also request a simple letter from
your bank Mercantile to show that you will suffer if the deal
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2813
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct
did not go through. What was your understanding of what that
meant?
A. They were representing to us that they were in daily
communication with the DOJ at that point, that they were
requesting at a minimum the 49.5 million be released because it
was injuring a third party and they wanted us to validate that.
Q. Did Mercantile provide a letter?
A. I believe so.
Q. And below that it says, I can assure you that none of the
money comes from Miles and our independent fund administrator.
What is your understanding of who Miles refers to?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. Did Mercantile receive a warrant, a seizure warrant from
the U.S. government?
A. Initially we received a freeze and then later a seizure.
Q. What's a freeze?
A. A freeze means we can't move the money anywhere.
Q. And what accounts did the freeze pertain to?
A. I believe all the accounts related to William Je.
Q. And then you said you received a seizure, what's the
difference between a seizure and a freeze?
A. A seizure means that we actually wire the money to the U.S.
marshal office, and it becomes under the custody of the United
States.
Q. Did Mercantile do that, did Mercantile transfer the
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2814
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct
Himalaya money to the United States government?
A. Yes.
Q. Did Mercantile retain any of the money that was in the
Himalaya and G/Club accounts?
A. Yes.
Q. Why?
A. We have commercial provisions in our contracts that allow
us to offset for compliance and legal fees related to an
account.
Q. As a result of that, did you have a legal dispute with
Hamilton?
A. I don't recall a legal dispute on that issue, but I'm fuzzy
on that.
Q. Did you have any legal dispute with Hamilton, you meaning
Mercantile?
A. Yeah. Actually, I don't think we have any, other than we
filed for an arbitration.
Q. What do you mean by you, Mercantile?
A. Mercantile Global Holdings.
Q. Why did Mercantile file for an arbitration?
A. Because they defaulted on the closing requirements?
Q. Who is they?
A. Hamilton Special Opportunity Fund.
Q. Is there also an arbitration with G/Club?
A. I believe there is one pending that's been stayed.
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2815
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
MR. FINKEL: One moment. Nothing further at this
time. Thank you, Mr. Collins.
THE COURT: Cross-examination.
MR. KAMARAJU: Thank you, your Honor. Just for
planning purpose, are we taking the morning break at 11 or
11:30?
THE COURT: 11:30 will be our half an hour break, and
then we'll take another break at 2:30.
MR. KAMARAJU: Thank you, your Honor.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. KAMARAJU:
Q. Good morning, Mr. Collins.
A. Good morning.
Q. Now, could we bring up Government Exhibit MER-1205, please,
which is in evidence.
Now, Mr. Finkel asked you some questions about this on
direct, correct?
A. I presume so. I only see a header.
Q. We could scroll through real quick so you can take a look.
A. Yes, this is what we discussed.
Q. And this was the exchange of Whatsapp messages about the
redemption request, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you testified on direct that that redemption request
never happened, right? Withdrawn.
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2816
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
You testified on direct that you never wired any money
pursuant to this redemption request, correct?
A. We did not.
Q. In fact, you were never intending to wire any money
pursuant to this redemption request, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Could we go to page three of the document, please.
Do you see a message there from Mr. Je at 9:03 p.m.,
the second from the bottom?
A. Hi, please hold until Monday.
Q. He's referring to this redemption request, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you had never told him that you didn't intend to honor
this redemption request, right?
A. I never told him that.
Q. So, in fact, Mr. Je called it off on his own accord,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was before you processed it, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. We can take that down for a second.
Now, the transaction that you described between
Hamilton and Mercantile Bank, that was for Hamilton to acquire
a stake in the bank, right?
A. Technically the holding company that wholly owns the bank,
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
but yes.
Q. So indirectly buying the bank by buying an interest in the
holding company, right?
A. Right.
Q. You testified on direct I believe that that transaction
closed September 16 of 2022, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And prior to the transaction closing, you had to receive
authorization for something you called OCIF?
A. Correct.
Q. You made an application to OCIF, correct?
A. I think technically the application was made by William Je
and Hamilton Special Opportunity Fund.
Q. Did Mercantile not have any submission to the OCIF as part
of it.
A. I don't recall what was required. We had attorneys
handling it, both inside and outside counsel.
Q. You understood that in connection with that application, it
was going to the entity that regulated your bank, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And so it was important to you to honor your commitments to
that regulator, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And in fact you said that to Mr. Je on several occasions,
right?
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2818
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. And you didn't want to be associated -- withdrawn.
You didn't want your regulator to associate you with
any kind of misconduct, right?
A. Correct.
Q. That would have a negative impact on your bank, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And that application that went in, whether it was for
Hamilton or Mercantile, that went in, in April of 2022, right?
A. That sounds about right.
Q. And that's right around Easter of that year, right?
A. Yeah, I don't recall the specific dates.
Q. But that is around the time that the loan went in, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Now, could we pull up Government Exhibit MER-1204, please.
And this is in evidence so we can put it up for the jury.
A. It's just a header for me.
Q. I'm going to have it scrolled through once the jury can see
it. Okay. So could we just scroll through that so the witness
can take a look at it.
Do you recall testifying about this exchange of
messages on direct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you remember Mr. Finkel asking you questions about this
line, There is no universe that I will be carrying 100 million
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2819
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
of BTC on a thumb drive to Dubai, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You sent that message on March 17, 2022, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So that's before you submitted the OCIF application,
correct?
A. I don't -- could you tell me the date of the OCIF
submission? I don't recall it.
Q. Sure. Maybe we can put up side-by-side with this
defense -- actually, let's take this down and just for the
witness put up DX-60554.
Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. Is this the application?
A. It appears to be a letter to OCIF. If you could reduce it
back. That describes the transaction. Can we go down the
letter so I can see the whole thing?
Q. Sure.
A. Okay. That's signed by Hamilton's counsel.
Q. Before we do that. Is this the application?
A. I believe this is the application that Hamilton submitted.
Q. And this was the application submitted to OCIF?
A. Yes.
Q. And it's in connection with the Mercantile/Hamilton
transaction?
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2820
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
A. Yes.
MR. KAMARAJU: The defense offers DX-60554, your
Honor.
MR. FINKEL: I have a question for clarification.
This is Hamilton's application?
THE WITNESS: I'm unclear. We can look at the last
page. We went through it very fast.
BY MR. KAMARAJU:
Q. How about you just blow up the first paragraph just for the
witness.
A. So that is a request for the approval.
Q. I'm sorry. I meant the very first paragraph.
A. That paragraph, I'm not trying to be pedantic, but it
describes that we are requesting approval for this transaction,
but that is not necessarily the application. I think there's a
distinction.
Q. Understood. Is this a letter submitted to OCIF in
connection with the application related to the
Mercantile/Hamilton transaction?
A. Yes.
Q. Is it a letter submitted on behalf of your bank?
A. I believe so.
MR. KAMARAJU: The defense offers DX-60554.
A. Can I look at the signatories again. I'm a little confused
on that.
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2821
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
Q. Feel free.
A. Yeah, so, it's signed by our counsel and Hamilton's
counsel, so that may be perhaps why I don't recall the letter,
but okay.
THE COURT: Is there any objection?
MR. FINKEL: Yes. Objection, hearsay, authenticity,
couple of things.
MR. KAMARAJU: I'm not offering it for the contents of
the letter. I'm simply offering it for the fact that it was
submitted.
THE COURT: You're not offering it for the contents,
but merely for the fact that the letter was submitted?
MR. KAMARAJU: Yes.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 60554 received in evidence)
MR. KAMARAJU: Could we publish that.
MR. FINKEL: Can I ask one question. Have you seen
this letter before?
THE WITNESS: I don't recall seeing it by memory.
MR. FINKEL: I renew the objection.
THE COURT: I'm going to permit the letter.
Q. Can we publish it, please. So you see the date of this,
it's April 18, 2022?
A. Yes.
Q. So it's fair to say that at this time as of this date you
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2822
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
were still pursuing the transaction with Hamilton, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So now if we could go back and put up Government Exhibit
MER-1204, please. If we could go to the second page, and if we
could blow up the message that starts, There's no universe.
You see that?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. So you sent that message on March 17, 2022?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You sent this message before the letter we just looked at
was submitted to OCIF?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Nothing about your conversation with Mr. Je about carrying
$100 million of Bitgo on a thumb drive to Dubai caused you to
cancel that transaction with Hamilton, correct?
A. No.
Q. And you didn't report this request to OCIF, right?
A. Well, I'm not sure we have an obligation to report it to
OCIF, but we have an obligation to report it on SARS.
Q. I'm not asking about your legal understanding of anything,
I'm just asking the fact of it is that you did not submit it
OCIF?
A. Yes.
Q. Let's pull up Government Exhibit GX-MER-138. We can
publish that as well.
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2823
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
This is the bank statement that shows the loan going
out, right?
A. I believe so.
Q. So it's fair to say that your conversation with Mr. Je
about the loan going out occurred before this transaction,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. And the wire goes out April 15 of 2022, correct? If you go
down to where it says withdrawal 37 million.
A. Looks like April 15.
Q. So the loan also went out before the OCIF letter that we
just looked at was submitted, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And nothing about this loan request made you cancel the
transaction with Hamilton, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. You didn't report the loan to OCIF either, did you?
A. I don't recall what we did or didn't report, but it doesn't
come to mind.
Q. We can take that down.
Now, you were asked a question on direct about a
phrase, "To the moon," right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you saw a video with Mr. Guo when which that phrase was
used, correct?
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2824
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. And you described it as marketing material basically,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. And I think you said that the phrase "To the moon"
originally came from an old black and white TV show, right?
A. Yeah, I think it was the Honeymooners.
Q. That's what I was going to ask. It was the Honeymooners,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. It's a common phrase in the cryptocurrency industry, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Guo is not the only person who's ever used that phrase,
right?
A. No.
Q. Elon Musk used that phrase about Dogecoin, correct?
MR. FINKEL: Objection.
A. I don't know.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. You heard that phrase in the course of your following the
cryptocurrency industry, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And Mercantile Bank, I understand it's winding down --
withdrawn.
Mercantile Bank was a bank based in Puerto Rico,
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2825
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
right?
A. Yes.
Q. When was it founded?
A. I believe we received our license to organize around
December of '16 -- I'm sorry, December of '18, and we began
operating in the Spring of '19.
Q. Now, prior to founding Mercantile Bank, you were also
looking at starting a cryptocurrency exchange, right?
A. That was part of our original plan.
Q. And you were going to call it the San Juan Mercantile
Exchange, right?
A. Correct.
Q. What is your understanding of what a cryptocurrency is?
MR. FINKEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. When you say that it was
contemplated that you may start such an entity, are you
speaking of yourself personally or the bank?
THE WITNESS: The holding company. So Mercantile
Global Holdings owned two -- at that time we owned two assets,
one was a bank, and the other was what we called San Juan
Mercantile Exchange, and the two were meant to operate
together.
THE COURT: You may answer the question as to what
your understanding of a cryptocurrency exchange is.
A. A cryptocurrency exchange matches buyers and sellers of a
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
given crypto asset, usually for some fiat currency. Sometimes
for a different crypto asset.
Q. Now, the San Juan Mercantile Exchange never actually
launched, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. But Mercantile the bank did have a cryptocurrency focus,
correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And I think you testified on direct that your vision for
the bank was that it would be a settlement bank to the digital
asset industry. You remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. What's a settlement bank?
A. A settlement bank means that we are facilitating a clearing
of funds related to transactions on an exchange.
Q. So that, if I understand you correctly, the clearing of
those funds occurs after there's a transaction on the exchange;
is that right?
A. It depends on how the transactions being handled, but it
could be described as contemporaneous, but either instantly or
soon thereafter.
Q. And that's what you mean by settlement, right?
A. Correct.
Q. You also testified that Mercantile was the first bank in
the U.S. to have a license to hold and transmit digital assets,
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2827
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
correct?
A. Correct.
Q. What do you mean by hold and transmit digital assets?
A. We could custody your digital assets. So let's just use
Bitcoin as an example. If you wanted to deposit Bitcoin with
our bank, we could hold that asset in custody for you. We
could also transmit it.
Q. And that's one of the offerings that your bank marketed,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. And I think you testified on direct that there are 20,000
cryptocurrencies to your knowledge?
A. I've lost track of the number.
Q. Fair to say thousands?
A. At least.
Q. And so would your bank provide custody services for all of
those?
A. No.
Q. Why might your bank not provide custody services for a
cryptocurrency asset?
A. That industry is rife with projects that won't succeed.
There are some projects that are not cognizant of laws that we
have to follow. And quite frankly from a commercial
perspective, there's just not enough business in 99 percent of
the coins --
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2828
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
THE INTERPRETER: Your Honor, interpreter is
requesting all parties to slow down a little bit.
THE COURT: Please slow down both the questioner and
the witness.
MR. KAMARAJU: Understood, your Honor.
A. I'll start over. There are dubious projects in crypto that
are problematic that don't necessarily respect the laws of our
jurisdiction, and then there are commercial concerns about the
effort to onboard a specific coin as it relates to just
economic activity.
Q. And so your bank picks and chooses between which
cryptocurrencies it will service for lack of a better word
after evaluating those factors, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. You also testified that Mercantile was a corresponding
bank. Do you remember that?
A. We had one corresponding relationship.
Q. What does that mean? What is a corresponding bank?
A. Typically that just means that two banks have accounts with
each other.
Q. And correspondent banking is often used when you have
transactions in different currencies, right?
A. That's one purpose, yeah.
Q. Can you explain how that would work to the jury?
A. So I'll try to create a simple example. I think that's the
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
easiest way to consider it. If JPMorgan has a client that owns
dollars and needs to purchase industrial equipment in Germany
that has to be transacted in euros, then often they will use a
bank account that they have with a bank in Germany where they
keep money in both dollars and euros and they'll simply accept
money from their client in the United States in dollars and
then they will make the payment to the German manufacturer out
of the German corresponding account that JPMorgan has in euros.
So there's a simultaneous transmission of value and an exchange
between one currency and the other. So it's the most efficient
way to manage international multicurrency transactions.
Q. Right. And that's because a bank user, example JPMorgan
and the United States, may not just be able to send euros from
New York to Berlin, right?
A. Yes, fair enough.
Q. And for an international banking institution like
Mercantile, having corresponding relationships that allowed
U.S. dollar transactions was pretty significant, right?
A. Yes. We did not have a direct account with a federal
reserve, so we depended on our own bank accounts with other
banks to facilitate transactions on behalf of our clients.
Q. I'm going to come back to the federal reserve.
At the time that G/Clubs became a client, you had a
correspondent banking relationship with Medici Bank, correct?
A. Yes.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
Q. But Medici wasn't the first correspondent banking
relationship that Mercantile had entered into, right?
A. We had other accounts at other banks that I guess you could
describe as corresponding banks.
Q. Well, you had a corresponding banking relationship with
Signature Bank, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And when you did that, Mercantile was processing
transactions for --
A. No. No. I'm sorry. I misstated that. I don't believe we
had an account. Our account with Signature Bank I believe was
purely an operating account which is different from a
corresponding account.
Q. Are you familiar with a company called Bittrex?
A. Yes.
Q. Was Bittrex ever a client at Mercantile Bank?
A. Briefly.
Q. Did you use Signature Bank to process transactions on
behalf of Bittrex?
MR. FINKEL: Objection, 401, 403.
THE COURT: You'll step up, please.
(Continued on next page)
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
(At the sidebar)
THE COURT: How is all of this relevant?
MR. KAMARAJU: I don't have a lot of questions. I'm
just trying to clarify the kind of account. My understanding
from his 3500 material was that this client Bittrex was using
Mercantile to do corresponding banking transactions through
Signature, so I'm just trying to clarify that. I don't intend
to dwell on this topic at all.
THE COURT: Why is it relevant?
MR. KAMARAJU: Well, corresponding banking
relationships are relevant, that's all. Because he goes from
here to -- he loses this banking relationship. He then
struggles to find another corresponding banking relationship.
It's his belief that that has, one, to do with the fact that
the bank is in Puerto Rico. And two, it has to do with
cryptocurrency. I' just establishing that in fact it can be
difficult to establish banking relationships. The issue of that
is going to be relevant throughout the trial.
MR. FINKEL: I don't see how Mercantile's
relationships with other customers is relevant, in particular a
customer like Bittrex. The defense moved to make sure that
Mr. Collins was not used as a pseudo-cryptocurrency expert,
that's why I objected to the question about the cryptocurrency
exchanges initially. That question in and of itself was fine.
I was worried about the line had been drawn. I think if the
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
defense is trying to use Mercantile's relationships with other
clients, particularly crypto clients like Bittrex to try to
draw comparisons and parallels to the Himalaya Exchange, that's
inappropriate. That's a 403 problem. It's a 702 problem, but
the relevance question I think predominates. While there has
been evidence at this trial about the difficulty of G/Clubs,
for example, or Guo's enterprise to obtain banking
relationships, Bittrex ability to obtain banking relationships
is not relevant at all to this trial. And it wouldn't be
appropriate to draw a comparison between entities in the Guo
enterprise and Bittrex, and that's the only possible relevance
to that question. To the extent it is relevant, it would be
confusing to the jury.
THE COURT: What is Bittrex?
MR. KAMARAJU: It's a cryptocurrency exchange.
THE COURT: Is this one of those widely considered
legitimate exchanges?
MR. FINKEL: Yes.
MR. KAMARAJU: It is. But, first of all, it's not
Bittrex that has the difficulty with maintaining banking
relationships. It's Mercantile. I have no intention of
suggesting anything about Bittrex's banking relationships or
comparing the exchange to Bittrex. I just understood that it
was a corresponding banking relationship that he had with
Signature. He told me it wasn't. I was trying to clarify that
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
through at least what was in the 3500. I don't intend to
either here or during summation to say anything about the fact
that Bittrex, the fact that Bittrex was a client of Mercantile
has anything to do with the exchange. I'm literally just
trying to get to point of Mercantile's own banking
relationships, not Bittrex.
MR. FINKEL: Then the question should be, did
Mercantile have problems obtaining corresponding banking
relationships. By that description itself, I think basically
concedes that Bittrex's point has no relevance, because the
point can be made without Bittrex. The only reason I objected
is because of the Bittrex reference.
MR. KAMARAJU: I only responded to the fact that the
witness said there was a corresponding banking relationship. I
was just trying to get back to that. If you want, I'll ask
that question if that's the only reason for asking about
Bittrex.
THE COURT: I think that's a better question.
MR. KAMARAJU: That's fine, your Honor. I would just
note that the witnesses sometime have difficulty with longer
questions or more generalized questions, which is why I was
trying to more specific in the first instance.
THE COURT: All righty.
(Continued on next page)
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
(In open court; jury present)
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. KAMARAJU:
Q. Did there come a point where Mercantile Bank had
difficulties obtaining corresponding banking relationships?
A. Yes, we always tried to maintain more than one, and
corresponding banking is difficult at best.
Q. And it's particularly difficult for banks based in Puerto
Rico, correct?
A. I believe so.
Q. And it's particularly difficulty for -- withdrawn.
What is your understanding as to why it's difficult
for banks based in Puerto Rico to obtain corresponding banking
relationships?
A. There's a perception bias. I can't say I'm an expert on
what drives the bias, but at the end of the day it's human
beings making a decision. That would be mostly the issue I
think.
Q. And banks that primarily service cryptocurrency clients, do
they similarly have problems obtaining corresponding banking
relationship?
MR. FINKEL: Objection.
THE COURT: I'll allow the question.
A. Yes.
Q. And what's your understanding of why that is?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
MR. FINKEL: Same objection as to other banks.
THE COURT: So you're asking about banks based in
Puerto Rico. What is the question?
MR. KAMARAJU: I asked about banks based in Puerto
Rico. Now I'm asking about banks that predominantly facilitate
cryptocurrency customers.
THE COURT: If you'll just stick to his bank.
MR. KAMARAJU: Sure.
Q. Mercantile is a bank that had a focus on cryptocurrency,
correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And that was one of the factors that you believed made it
difficult for Mercantile to obtain corresponding banking
relationships, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Why did you believe that?
A. Because it was shared with us by corresponding banks that
we had made applications to.
Q. By the way, do you know what Sharps Pixley?
A. Sharps Pixley. Can you spell Sharps?
Q. Common spelling, S-H-A-R-P-S.
A. And Pixley?
Q. P-I-X-L-E-Y.
A. I'm not sure I'm familiar with that term.
Q. You do know what FV Bank is, right?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. FV Bank is another bank in Puerto Rico, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And its offices are close to Mercantile offices, right?
A. I don't actually know where their offices are.
Q. Fair enough. Now, you testified on direct that you were
first introduced to G/Club through an individual called Alex H,
right?
A. No.
Q. Who introduced you first to G/Club?
A. Our introduction came through essentially Medici because we
were processing transactions for Medici who was processing
transactions for G/Club.
Q. After Medici made that introduction, you had a meeting at
your home with Ana Izquierdo and Limarie Reyes, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you understand they were executives at G/Club?
A. Yes.
Q. Why was that meeting at your home?
A. It was convenient for me at the time. My office -- I
believe this was not -- we were still in a strange environment
related to Covid, and it was just more convenient for me to
meet there.
Q. And I think you testified on direct that the Chinese
Communist Party did not come up during that meeting, right?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
A. Yeah, I don't recall it.
Q. But you also testified on direct that you had a discussion
with Ms. Reyes and Ms. Izquierdo that there was a Chinese
diaspora of like-minded people that were interested in these
types of offerings, do you remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. What do you mean Chinese diaspora?
A. Generally I mean by that Chinese either current or former
citizens who left China that reside somewhere else.
Q. And when you use the phrase "like-minded people," what do
you mean by that?
A. People that wanted to leave China because of the political
system.
Q. When you talk about these types of offerings, you refer to
G/Club offerings, right?
A. Can you state that question again.
Q. Sure. The types of offerings that members of the Chinese
diaspora that you were describing, those were the offerings
that G/Clubs was marketing, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, at the time that you met with Ms. Reyes, they were
looking to switch banks, fair enough?
A. Yes.
Q. They were no longer satisfied with Medici services,
correct?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. And they ultimately did make that switch, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they explain to you why they were not satisfied with
Medici?
A. They didn't like the amount of communication and they felt
the technology was not sufficient.
Q. Now, once Mercantile opened the G/Club bank accounts, there
were millions of dollars that flowed into those accounts,
right?
A. I can't recall the timeline of transactions. I believe the
bulk of those transactions happen before we had a direct
relationship with G/Clubs.
Q. Fair enough. Regardless of before or after Medici, there
was millions of dollars flowing into G/Clubs accounts held at
Mercantile, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. How does Mercantile earn revenue from its banking business?
A. Usually we earn money through transaction fees and through
an interest rate spread, because for digital assets, typically
banks don't pay any interest on the funds.
Q. So if there are U.S. dollars sitting in a bank account at
Mercantile, can you explain to us how Mercantile might make
money off of that?
A. We deposit that in short-term overnight funds with double A
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
rated banks, and we receive essentially the fed funds rate.
And -- that I don't remember the exact rate at the time, but
since we started the bank, that's range from one percent to as
high as five and a quarter percent.
Q. And so the more money that's in an account, the more money
the bank earns, right?
A. Correct.
Q. So the bank earned those same payments off the G/Clubs
inflows, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And on direct you were asked questions about the due
diligence process that Mercantile engaged in with new clients.
Remember that?
A. Mm hm.
Q. You testified that you understood that that kind of due
diligence was required under the Bank Secrecy Act, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And part of that process is determining who the UBO is,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. Tell us again what UBO stands for?
A. Ultimate beneficial owner.
Q. How does Mercantile determine typically who the UBO is?
A. So we have a compliance team that collects data. They
evaluate the data. They ask people to make certain
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
attestations about what percentage they own of a company, what
control they have. And based on those answers, they make an
evaluation.
Q. And you testified on direct that another part of the due
diligence process was determining the source of funds, right?
A. Yes.
Q. So same question, how does Mercantile determine the source
of funds coming in from a potential client typically?
A. That's a more complicated process that involves a lot of
research that my team takes care of. I'm not an expert in
that.
Q. You have a team at the bank who's responsible for doing
that?
A. Right.
Q. Now, you are aware at the time G/Club was seeking to open
bank accounts that there was a relationship or a connection
between G/Clubs and Miles Guo, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you testified on direct that you had concerns about
that connection, and in particular Mr. Guo based on risk
profile and his history with the Chinese government, right?
A. Yes.
Q. What did you mean by his history with the Chinese
government?
A. My understanding was he had been accused of criminal
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
activity, that he had fled the country and was seeking asylum
or was granted asylum in the U.S., and that is quite frankly
too much information for us to unpack.
Q. I didn't hear the last part.
A. Too much information for us to unpack.
Q. And by "unpack" you mean that was enough for the bank
basically?
A. To make a determination if it was true, what crimes had
been committed or not committed, like it's a very complicated
situation. And we took the more conservative position that
that was a risk profile we could not tolerate.
Q. And that risk profile would be problematic for the bank if
Mr. Guo was the UBO of G/Club, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And it would be problematic for the bank if the source of
G/Club's money was Mr. Guo, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And so the bank did in fact run its due diligence process
on G/Clubs, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And you have no reason to believe that that process was any
different than what it runs on any of its other customers,
right?
A. Correct.
Q. You don't believe the bank took it easy on G/Club, right?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
A. Correct.
Q. And as a result that due diligence process revealed that
Mr. Guo was not the UBO, correct?
A. As far as our research concluded, that's the case.
Q. And same with respect to the source of funds, it concluded
that they did not come from him, correct?
A. That is true.
Q. You also testified about the same thing with respect to
G Fashion, right?
A. I believe so.
Q. So you open accounts for G Fashion, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You had the same concerns with respect to G Fashion and its
connection to Mr. Guo, right?
A. Correct.
Q. The bank ran due diligence on G Fashion, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And as a result of its due diligence, it opened accounts
for G Fashion, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And Mr. Finkel asked you a number of questions about if the
bank had known that Mr. Guo had operational control of G/Club,
would the bank had opened the account, correct? You remember
those questions?
A. Yes.
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2843
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
Q. So at the time that the bank opened the G/Club account, the
bank concluded that Mr. Guo did not have operational control of
G/Club, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And it determined that he did not have operational control
of G Fashion, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And sitting here today, you have never seen any evidence
that he has operational control of G/Club, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And you have never seen any evidence sitting here today
that he has operational control of G Fashion, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And you have never seen any evidence sitting here today
that he has operational control of Himalaya Exchange, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And, in fact, during all of your negotiations with Mr. Je,
whether it was about the acquisition, the loans, the redemption
request, you never communicated with this man Mr. Guo, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. In fact, you have never spoken to Mr. Guo, right?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. Sitting here in this courtroom is the first time you've
ever seen him in person, right?
A. Correct.
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2844
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
Q. Now, I like to talk about Yield Esta. Can you remind us
what Yield Esta is. Am I saying that right first.
A. Yield Esta, yes.
Q. Can you remind us what it is?
A. It was an investment vehicle for futures trading based on
algorithmic programs.
Q. When you say investment vehicle, is that another word for
hedge fund?
A. I wouldn't describe this as a hedge fund, but it's similar.
THE COURT: Mr. Kamaraju, if you would spell out what
it is you're describing.
Q. So it's Yield Esta. correct me if I'm wrong,
Y-E-L-D-E-S-T-A. Is that right, sir?
A. It's the word "Yield" with Esta.
THE COURT: If you'll speak into the microphone,
please.
A. It's the word "yield" with Esta on it.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
Q. And you just mentioned it was focused on algorithmic
trading?
A. Yes.
Q. I'm not going to dive into the details of it. I want to
say, is it fair to say that algorithmic trading is an
investment strategy of some sort?
A. Yes.
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2845
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
Q. And it's the investment strategy that Yield Esta employs,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. A when you say it's focused on futures trading, a future is
just a particular kind of asset class, right?
A. Correct.
Q. So Yield Esta employs a particular investment strategy tied
to a particular asset class, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And who sets the strategy, for that investment strategy for
Yield Esta?
A. I did.
Q. It wasn't the folks at G/Clubs who invested that set the
strategy, right?
A. No.
Q. Are you a registered investment advisor, sir?
A. No, I don't have to be.
Q. I wasn't asking about the obligation.
When G/Clubs invested in Yield Esta, you provided them
certain information about the, I'll use investment your term
"investment vehicle," right?
A. Correct.
Q. They decided if they wanted to invest, right?
A. Correct.
Q. They sent you subscription documents, right?
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2846
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. They sent you money, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And, in fact, they sent you money before they were even
allowed to open accounts at the bank, right?
A. I don't remember that.
Q. Withdrawn. Once G/Club sent the money to you, it was your
decision how to invest it though, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you do have experience advising clients on investments,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. You worked at a fund before, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Before you got into the banking space?
A. Yes.
Q. What was the name of that fund?
A. Mother Rock.
Q. Now, after G/Clubs had opened its accounts, we'll stick
with Alex H, Alex H suggested that you should meet another
potential client, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was the cryptocurrency exchange Himalaya Exchange,
right?
A. Yes.
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2847
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
Q. And I think you testified that was in late summer or early
fall of 2021, right?
A. Yes.
Q. So the exchange had not -- was not up and running yet at
this time, right?
A. No.
Q. It was still in developmental phases, right?
A. We had not pursued plans to launch the exchange very early
in our process.
Q. I'm sorry. I think I may have confused you with my
question.
I was referring to the Himalaya Exchange was not up
and running by the late summer of 2021?
A. I don't think so.
Q. How many -- again, I'm not asking for names, was it unusual
for you to have a cryptocurrency exchange as a client?
A. No.
Q. So you had others, right?
A. Over time. Timeline is important in all these questions.
Q. Fair enough. And I'm not trying to pin you down to
anything.
Prior to beginning to engage with the Exchange,
Mercantile had had other exchanges as clients in the past,
that's my question?
A. Yes.
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2848
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
Q. Now, at the time you first learned of the Himalaya
Exchange, Mercantile was experiencing a bit of a cash crunch,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you had been trying to raise money to keep the bank's
operations going, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And you were telling potential investors that you needed
cash to keep the bank going, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And one of the investors that you, let's say recorded for
lack of a better phrase, was a company called Tingo, right?
A. Yes.
Q. What is Tingo?
A. At the time I understood Tingo to be a company doing
commodity transactions in Europe and Africa who had ambitions
to go public.
Q. Based on what you knew at the time, so I'm just asking for
what you knew, sir. Did you know if Tingo had any
cryptocurrency operations?
MR. FINKEL: Objection, pertains to what we talked
about at the sidebar.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. KAMARAJU: Could I have a very brief sidebar on
this, your Honor?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
THE COURT: Okay.
(Continued on next page)
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
(At the sidebar)
MR. KAMARAJU: So the only reason I asked that is
because the timeline, as I understand it is, he is discussing a
transaction with Tingo. He then meets William Je, and William
Je proposes a transaction, and he opts to go with William Je's
transaction over Tingo, including in part because his bank and
the Exchange had synergies, on the cryptocurrency front. The
only reason I was asking about Tingo was to point out that he
switched courses so to speak mid-race to go with the company
that better fit his business. That's the entire point.
THE COURT: I think it's understood that a bank may be
courting a number of clients or a number of clients may be
looking to open accounts with the bank. I don't see why you
need to specifically go into Tingo.
MR. KAMARAJU: I'm not going into Tingo -- the only
reason -- my point is not that there's a bunch of different
suitors for the bank. My point is actually that he picked the
suitor. He had the choice and he picked the suitor that best
suited his interest.
THE COURT: You don't need to make that point by
comparing it to an entity that's not relevant to this case.
You can ask him why did he pick.
MR. KAMARAJU: Okay. But if his answer is why did you
pick and he sells, well, Tingo, didn't have cryptocurrency
capability and the Exchange does, then are we in the same
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
place?
THE COURT: Then you can go into Tingo.
(Continued on next page)
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2852
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
(In open court; jury present)
BY MR. KAMARAJU:
Q. So, Mr. Collins, we were talking about the fact that you
were discussing a potential transaction with Tingo, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And in November of 2021, you traveled to London to meet
with them?
A. Yes.
Q. At the same time you also met with Mr. Je, right?
MR. FINKEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. In November of 2021 you traveled to London, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You met Mr. Je there, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You decided to engage in a commercial transaction with
Mr. Je's companies, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Why did you pick Mr. Je's companies as opposed to any other
potential suitors the bank might have had?
A. In part my memory was they improved the price. I believed
them to be liquid. I was unclear of Tingo's liquid. Tingo is
still evolving relative to their public ambition, which was
interest but pose some risk. I would say those are the major
factors.
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2853
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
Q. Now, just stick with your meeting with Mr. Je for a second
please.
So you testified on direct that he ran the Himalaya
Exchange, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you visited his office in London during this trip?
A. It's a suburb of London, but yes.
Q. Those offices occupied several floors of a building, right?
A. I don't recall being on more than one floor.
Q. You testified that there was an arbitration, correct?
A. Where are we in the timeline?
Q. Well, you testified on direct that the bank filed an
arbitration against Hamilton, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And you submitted a declaration in that arbitration,
correct?
A. I don't recall the documents that were part of it.
Q. How many sworn statements do you recall submitting in
connection with that arbitration?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Was it more than one?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you testify in the arbitration?
A. I believe I did.
Q. Prior to testifying in the arbitration, did you submit any
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
sworn statements?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Just for the witness could we show him DX60551, please.
Could we just scroll through it, please. If we could go to
page 19, please.
Do you recognize this?
A. Yes.
Q. Is this the declaration you submitted in connection with
the arbitration?
A. I believe so.
Q. Could we turn to page eight and highlight paragraph, just
the last sentence of paragraph 46 and please just read it to
yourself, sir.
THE COURT: So it's now 11:30, so we will take our
break. Members of the jury, remember that you're not allowed
to discuss the case amongst yourselves or with anyone else.
Don't permit anyone to discuss the case in your presence.
Don't read, watch or listen to anything from any source about
anything that touches upon the subject matter of this trial.
Sir, you may step out. Don't discuss your testimony.
THE LAW CLERK: Jury exiting.
THE COURT: You may be seated. You may step out, sir.
(Witness temporarily excused)
(Continued on next page)
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2855
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: Is there anything before we resume at
noon?
MR. KAMARAJU: Nothing from the defense.
MR. FINKEL: Just to avoid a sidebar when we resume.
I think defense counsel is going to a proper place with the
declaration, which is either to refresh his recollection or
impeach. But to the extent the defense is seeking to introduce
the 20-page declaration, we would object to that. And we can
settle that not at a sidebar. It seems like we're going to a
proper place. But to efficient, I just wanted to put that on
the record.
MR. KAMARAJU: I don't plan to try to admit the
declaration. I was going to try to use it for, refresh his
recollection. I guess possibly impeach him. To the extent it
is used for impeachment, I think what I will do if it makes
sense to your Honor is, simply ask to admit the specific
statement that is reflected in the declaration and only publish
that statement to the jury. And then we can have a redacted
version down the road before it goes to the jury. That's what
I would propose.
THE COURT: That seems appropriate.
MR. FINKEL: Thank you.
MR. KAMARAJU: Thank you, your Honor.
(Recess)
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: Please have the witness resume the stand
and please bring the jurors in.
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Please be seated.
Remember that you're still under oath.
THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am.
THE COURT: You may continue your cross-examination.
MR. KAMARAJU: Thank you, your Honor.
BY MR. KAMARAJU:
Q. So I think when we left off, you were reviewing a document
on your screen. I'm just going to direct you——to help to
orient you, I'm happy to show you the first page again, but
otherwise, I'm going to direct you to the last sentence of this
paragraph.
A. My memory is this is a document produced out of the
arbitration.
Q. Okay. And does this document help refresh your
recollection as to whether Mr. Je's offices in London occupied
several floors of an office building?
A. Yes. I'm not sure I went to any other floors than the one
I was on.
Q. Okay. That wasn't my question; just simply that there were
multiple floors of the business, right?
A. According to this statement, yes.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
Q. And it was your impression that the businesses employed a
lot of people, right?
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. More than a hundred?
A. My memory is it was approximately 200.
MR. KAMARAJU: We could take that down for now. Thank
you.
Q. Now I think before we looked at that, you were explaining
some of the reasons why you chose to go with Hamilton and the
Himalaya Exchange companies for the acquisition, right?
THE COURT: Mr. Kamaraju, speak into the microphone.
MR. KAMARAJU: Sorry, your Honor.
Q. And one of those reasons was that you perceived a synergy
between the bank and the exchange, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were telling your shareholders that, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Can you explain what you thought the synergy would
be between the bank and the exchange.
A. Well, we had always planned on having a crypto exchange, a
digital asset exchange, as part of our offering, and had not
launched it yet, so there was the potential for us to work
closely with a digital asset exchange that happened to own a
large portion of us.
Q. And given your prior interest in starting an exchange, you
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
had some ideas as to how to improve the Himalaya Exchange,
right?
A. Yeah. We didn't get very far along that path.
Q. Sure. But you made some initial suggestions, right?
A. I don't remember what they were.
Q. Okay. Well, let me ask you this: You previously invested
in Bitcoin, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. One of the ideas that you suggested to the exchange
was that they should list Bitcoin too, right?
MR. FINKEL: Objection. 401, 403.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. I don't remember that specific suggestion, but it seems
reasonable.
Q. Okay. You were aware at the time that the Himalaya
Exchange started that it only listed two tokens, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And that was H Coin and H Dollar, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And so it made sense to you that it should list more
tokens.
A. That's reasonable.
Q. Now you discussed some of those suggestions with David
Fallon, right?
A. That's who I would have discussed it with, probably.
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2859
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
Q. Who is Mr. Fallon?
A. I would best describe Dave as the head trader of the firm.
Q. Okay. And just so we're clear, when you say "the firm,"
which firm are you referring to?
A. Well, he was like many of their employees, who worked for
many of the firms.
Q. Okay. Did he work for Hamilton as one of those?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Did he work for the exchange as one of those?
A. The Himalaya Exchange?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So he played a role at several of Mr. Je's
companies, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And I believe you testified to this, but Hamilton was a
hedge fund owned by Mr. Je, correct?
A. Owned is a difficult word, but controlled by Mr. Je would
be better.
Q. Okay. Fair enough. He controlled it, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. All right. And prior to reaching your deal with the
exchange, you did due diligence on the exchange, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And the exchange did due diligence on the bank, right?
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2860
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
A. I believe so.
Q. And as part of that mutual due diligence process, you
traveled to London, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You spent a few weeks there at Mr. Je's offices, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. On the bank side, were you the only person involved in that
due diligence?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Who else was involved?
A. My compliance team, my legal team, my CFO.
Q. Okay. And on the exchange's side, who did you interact
with when it came to that due diligence?
A. Priya Patel, Georgette, David, there was a young gentleman
that was sort of an analyst, whose name I can't recall. Oh,
Harrison was his name.
Q. Okay. So as part of that due diligence process, you didn't
speak to Mr. Guo, right?
A. No.
Q. Okay. You didn't speak to Yvette Wang, right?
A. No.
Q. Now as part of that due diligence process, there was an
independent valuation done, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was of what the bank would be worth with the
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2861
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
investment, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. I'm not going to ask you to get into particulars,
but you provided the information for that valuation, right?
About the bank, I mean.
A. We provided the information that related to the bank for
that valuation.
Q. Yes. Sorry. My question was unclear. Specifically, just
so the record is clear, the information that went into the
independent valuation about the bank came from you, not
Mr. Je's companies, correct?
A. I believe so.
Q. Okay. And you believed that this transaction could
generate significant value for the bank, right?
A. I did.
Q. Okay. Both in the short term because of your cash flow
crunch, right?
A. Correct.
Q. But then also on longer term, right?
A. I'd like to go back to timelines, because you're conflating
a bunch of information as though it all happened at once.
The first investment that Mr. Je made occurred long
before we were working on any analysis of the valuation. The
valuation, as I recall, occurred, or began, around February or
March, and I don't remember exactly when we received a report;
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2862
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
and the larger-investment dollar amounts, those discussions
didn't happen until after he had made his first investment. So
that's the answer to your question.
Q. Okay. So just so we're clear, you had long-term plans for
the bank, right?
A. Define long-term.
Q. Okay. You had plans to help try to grow the bank, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And they weren't going to happen the day after you signed
the deal, right?
A. No.
Q. Okay. How long did you think it was going to take to grow
the bank to the scale that you envisioned?
A. Several years.
Q. Okay. That's what I mean by long-term then, okay?
A. Okay.
Q. So over the course of a——withdrawn.
So some of the money that Mr. Je was going to invest
was intended to fuel long-term growth, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you believed that that could greatly increase the value
of the bank, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. In fact, you told Mr. Je at one point that you thought the
bank could be worth a billion dollars, right?
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2863
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
MR. FINKEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. I don't recall having that specific conversation, but there
is a scenario where it could be worth that.
Q. Okay. Now I think in the answer you gave a second ago, you
alluded to this, but the total money that was going to be sent
from Mr. Je's companies to your companies was broken up into
chunks, right?
A. Three parts.
Q. Okay. So can you explain to us just what the three parts
are.
A. There was the initial investment, which required very
little approval and no approval by the regulator. I believe
that amount was roughly 2.7 to $3 million.
There was what we would call the September 16th close,
which was 49½ million additional, and it was contemplated that
in or about six months later, we would fund another 50 million
into the bank.
THE COURT: What do you mean by "we would fund"?
THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Well, post September 16th,
our executives of the bank would be working for William Je and
the Hamilton enterprises, so that's what I meant by "we"
collectively, but it would have been Hamilton's money.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
BY MR. KAMARAJU:
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2864
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
Q. And the latter of the two chunks that you talked about——so
not the initial investment that didn't require OCIF approval
but the two chunks after that——are we clear?
A. Yeah.
Q. Those were each to be made pursuant to separate agreements,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. But both sets of agreements were signed on September 16,
2022, right?
A. Which agreements specifically were signed?
Q. Sorry. I mean the agreement related to the second chunk
and the third chunk, right?
A. I don't——I don't recall if we documented the third chunk on
the September 16th closing.
Q. Okay. So what agreements were signed? What agreements
were signed as part of the September 16th closing?
A. A number of agreements. Quite a few, actually.
Q. Do you remember any?
A. I couldn't enumerate them for you.
Q. Okay. Those agreements were agreements that upon——well,
withdrawn.
Pursuant to the agreements signed on September 16,
2022, you were expecting that Hamilton was going to wire you
money, right?
A. Yes.
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2865
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
Q. So at least there was one agreement signed on September 16,
2022, that obligated, in your mind, Hamilton to send you money,
right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And how much money did you believe Hamilton was
supposed to send you?
A. $49½ million.
Q. Okay. So there was one agreement signed on September 16th
of 2022 that you believed obligated Hamilton to send you
approximately $49 million, correct?
A. Yes.
THE COURT: And when was the money due?
THE WITNESS: It was actually due on the 16th.
Q. Okay. And you testified on direct that you actually didn't
get the money on the 16th, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And you weren't expecting it because it was late in the day
on a Friday, right?
A. It's reasonable to assume that the wire process might have
been slower than hoped, but it could have——it could have
cleared. It wasn't that late in the day.
Q. Got it. But it didn't shock you.
A. It did not shock us.
Q. But you had received notification that Hamilton had
actually tried to send the wire, right?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
THE INTERPRETER: Counsel, please slow down.
Q. Sorry. You had received notification that Hamilton had
tried to send the wire by that time, right?
A. We received a copy of the wire instructions and receipt
that was sent to Hamilton.
Q. All right. So you testified on direct that the reason why
the money never made it to Mercantile was because I think you
said the U.S. Marshals seized it, right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now after the money didn't show up on the 16th, you
continued to communicate with Hamilton about the wire, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Because you still thought there was a chance for the deal
to go through, right?
A. We didn't know what was happening until almost Thursday of
the following week, so about the 22nd or 23rd.
Q. Okay. And you were following up with Hamilton because you
wanted to see if there was a way for the deal to keep going,
right?
A. We wanted to receive the $49½ million.
Q. Yeah. Pursuant to the investments that Hamilton was going
to make, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And you testified that wire was supposed to come from the
Silvergate Bank account, right?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. And you thought that——well, let me ask you this.
Withdrawn.
There was a OCIF approval in place for the
transaction, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And did the OCIF approval set a deadline for when the
transaction would have to happen?
A. Yes.
Q. When was that deadline?
A. September 16th.
Q. Okay. So did you believe that the deal was dead pursuant
to the OCIF approval——
A. No.
Q. ——when the——okay. Just to be clear, so I can ask the
question——
A. Sorry.
Q. That's okay.
When the money didn't arrive on the 16th, in your
view, did that kill the deal under the OCIF approval?
A. No.
Q. Okay. So the deal could have still gone through even
though the OCIF deadline had been missed, right?
A. Our initial view was, if it were nothing more than clerical
error, that OCIF would have viewed money received on Monday or
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
Tuesday as sufficient, but that wasn't ultimately the cause of
the delay.
Q. Right. But in essence, if you missed the deadline by a few
days due to an explainable error, you thought OCIF would let it
slip, right?
A. I wouldn't use that terminology, but——
Q. Let it go through.
A. They would understand.
Q. Fair enough. But there was some urgency there then to get
that situation resolved, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. That's why you reached out to the CEO of Silvergate, right?
A. Correct.
Q. You wanted to push this along, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Because the faster it got resolved, the better, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Because at some point——you never know——OCIF's patience may
run out, right?
A. I think that's a fair assessment.
Q. Now Hamilton advised you that the Marshals had seized the
funds, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Silvergate Bank wouldn't give you that information, right?
A. Correct.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
Q. And you then had another discussion with Mr. Je about
potential options to fund the transaction, right?
A. I don't recall that.
Q. You don't recall speaking to him on the phone about other
options?
A. No.
Q. Okay. So the Silvergate reachout was the last option you
thought they had; is that right?
A. Once we learned that the funds had been seized by the U.S.
government, we did not believe——we wanted to be in a position
with our regulator to close the transaction because there has
to be good reason for funds to be seized.
Q. I'm sorry, sir. I don't understand the connection between
we wanted to complete the transaction and there had to be a
good reason for funds being seized. Can you explain that to
us.
A. Until——until we learned what had happened to the money,
which was about I believe Thursday the 22nd, we did not know
what had happened to the money. If it was simply a clerical
issue, then I believe OCIF would have accepted the transaction
and we would be moving on. But that's not what happened. It
was seized by the U.S. government, and there's
requirements——I'm not a lawyer, I can't describe what those
requirements are, but there are requirements of having some
legitimacy to seizing the money, and I believe it has to be
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
approved by a court. So from the perspective of BSA and our
relationship with the regulator, it did not——it did not make
sense to expect that the transaction would eventually close
with him or anybody else involved in his side of the
organizations——him being William Je.
Q. Did you tell Mr. Je that?
A. I'm not sure if I did.
Q. Now you have personally spoken with the commissioner of
OCIF before, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you call the commissioner up and say, hey, this money
has been seized, we're calling the transaction off?
A. That would be very unlike me to do that so I don't believe
I did.
Q. Okay. Did you direct your counsel to write a letter to
OCIF saying, hey, the money's been seized, let's call the deal
off?
A. That is most likely how we communicated, or our counsel
called on our behalf.
Q. Okay. But you don't know one way or the other, right?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Now you testified during the arbitration proceeding,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And that testimony was under oath, right?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. Just like you're under oath today, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you remember being asked during your testimony, "Now,
do you recall a WhatsApp conversation with William where he was
trying to redeem his own cash, his own HDO into cash, to try to
complete this transaction?" and responding, "I recall a
conversation about that, yes"?
MR. FINKEL: Object. This mischaracterizes what
defense counsel is trying to impeach on. That's not what the
witness testified about at all.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Okay. Did you have a WhatsApp conversation with William to
try to discuss him redeeming his HDO to fund the transaction?
A. We had many WhatsApp conversations during that period. It
would not have been unreasonable for me to have one about that.
I don't recall the specific details.
Q. Okay. You don't recall.
A. The details.
MR. KAMARAJU: Okay. Then I'd like to pull up just
for the witness——I only want you to read it to yourself, okay?
And just for the record, I'm showing just the witness and the
parties and the Court what's been marked with the Bates number
Mercantile DOJ0078835.
Q. Okay. Sir, could you just read lines 13 to 17, to
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
yourself, please.
A. Can you take the blowup down. I'm sorry. Yeah. Thank
you.
Okay.
Q. Does this refresh your recollection about whether you had a
WhatsApp conversation with Mr. Je about his trying to redeem
his HDO into cash to fund the transaction?
A. It does.
MR. KAMARAJU: Okay. Now could we take that down and
could we show just the witness and the parties what's been
marked for identification as DX 60556, please.
Q. Take a look at that on your screen, sir. Do you have it
there?
A. Yeah, I do.
Q. Okay. These are WhatsApp messages that you received from
Mr. Je, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you received them on September 23, 2022, at 2:01 a.m.,
correct?
A. Yeah, the time stamps are unclear if they're U.S. times or
Ireland times, which is where I was at the time.
Q. Okay. But at least what's reflected on the document is
2:01 a.m.?
A. Yeah, that's what it says.
Q. Correct. And the subject matter of Mr. Je's messages
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
involve redeeming money, right?
A. Yes.
MR. KAMARAJU: Okay. The defense will offer DX 60556,
your Honor.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. FINKEL: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Defendant's Exhibit 60556 received in evidence)
MR. KAMARAJU: Okay. Could we publish that, please.
And could we actually bring up alongside it
GX MER1205, which is in evidence.
BY MR. KAMARAJU:
Q. Okay. Do you have both documents on your screen?
A. Yes. The one ending in 1205 is just a header.
Q. I'll flip through it in a second, but——
MR. KAMARAJU: Okay. So let's turn the page on 1205
to the first page, please.
Q. Okay. Do you see, at the very top of both documents, where
it says, "Messages in chronological order"?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And on the left document, do you see what's in the
parentheses there?
A. "Times are shown in GMT + 00."
Q. Okay. And then on the right document, do you see the same
message?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So you would agree with me, sir, that both these
messages reflect the same time zone, correct?
A. I just agree that's what the document says.
Q. Okay. Fair enough. These two exhibits both reflect that,
right?
A. That's what the document says.
Q. Okay. And so the document on the left, DX 60556, says that
those messages were sent before the messages on the document on
the right, right?
A. Yes. Yes.
Q. Okay. Now you testified on direct that Mr. Je did not tell
you who this redemption was going to be for initially, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Now on the left, in the message from 2:01 a.m., could you
please read that to the jury.
A. They're both from 2:01 a.m.
Q. Let's start with the one at the top.
A. Okay. "Hi, as discussed, my company would like to redeem
some money so that we could continue to support the operation
of your bank and other entities."
Q. And then what does he go on to say?
A. "Will send you the instruction in the morning."
Q. Okay. And then in Government Exhibit 1205, he sends you
the instruction, right?
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2875
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
A. I can't see. Oh.
MR. KAMARAJU: You can just put 1205 up on the screen.
You can take the other one down.
A. We talk about my meeting with Mahsud, we talk about FV
Bank, he mentions he's doing a normal redemption of a client.
Scroll down some more, please.
I mention I'm on a call with my attorney. He
mentioned documents for ACA.
Do I need to go further?
Q. Government Exhibit MER1205 reflects the only redemption
request that Mr. Je sent you on September 23, 2022, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And in the exhibit we were looking at, DX 60556,
which had the WhatsApp chats from earlier this morning, he said
he was going to send you instructions for a redemption,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So the instructions were for this redemption that's
referred to in Government Exhibit 1205, correct?
A. I don't believe the two things are connected.
Q. Okay. So did he send you instructions for any other
redemption later that morning?
A. To be clear, William and I never talked about him using
funds to invest in our bank after this moment. He sent a
message at 2:01 in the morning that I didn't respond to, and
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
then later, he sent in separately a redemption request via ACA
Capital.
Q. Okay. So my question was: Did he send you any other
redemption requests on the morning of September 23, 2022?
MR. FINKEL: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. KAMARAJU: Then I'm going to move to strike his
last answer as nonresponsive.
THE COURT: Answer is stricken.
Q. So let me try that question again. Did you——
THE COURT: So I sustained the asked and answered
objection.
MR. KAMARAJU: I'm sorry, your Honor. I thought once
it was stricken, I had the chance to go back. Fine.
Q. How many redemption requests did Mr. Je send you on the
morning of September 23, 2022?
A. I believe one.
Q. If we can scroll down to page 3 of this exhibit. do you see
there's a message from Mr. Je at 8:29 p.m.?
Sorry. Go back. It's the second message from him at
8:29 p.m. Do you see that?
A. "Will call you on how to complete your banking deal as
well."
Q. Right. You only had one banking deal going on with Mr. Je
at that time, right?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. And that was the acquisition of Mercantile, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Now you didn't say to Mr. Je, during this Government
Exhibit MER1205, hey, William, we can't do a redemption request
because the money's been frozen, right?
A. I don't recall making that statement.
Q. You didn't make any similar statement either, right?
A. I don't recall.
Q. You at no point communicated to him that you had a concern
about the seizure impacting this redemption request, correct?
A. Once I learned of the seizure, I was in listening mode.
Q. Okay. So you didn't convey it to him, right?
A. I don't recall making a statement like that.
Q. Now you said you were in listening mode. You were in
listening mode because you anticipated commencing an
arbitration, correct?
A. We were just simply trying to sort out what was happening.
Q. Okay. But you did commence an arbitration, correct?
A. We did.
Q. And you commenced that arbitration after learning that the
Department of Justice had seized the money, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And in fact, you commenced that arbitration pretty quickly
after learning that fact, right?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. Within days. Right?
A. I don't know the specific number, but it was quickly.
Q. And how about September 30, 2022, is that when you started
the arbitration?
A. That sounds about right.
Q. Now the DOJ had seized the money, right?
A. The wire.
Q. Had seized the wire. You were suing for those funds,
right?
A. Correct.
Q. That's what you were claiming as damages, right?
A. Correct.
Q. How was Hamilton going to pay you that money if the DOJ had
seized it?
MR. FINKEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Okay. What was your understanding of how Hamilton was
going to do it?
MR. FINKEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Okay. Why did you file an arbitration seeking the wire
money knowing that DOJ had seized it?
MR. FINKEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained. He did not testify that he was
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
seeking the wire money.
MR. KAMARAJU: He did, your Honor.
THE COURT: No.
Q. Okay. Let me try it this way: Why did you file an
arbitration asserting damages based on Hamilton's failure to
send the wire to you?
A. Why did we do that?
Q. Mm-hmm.
A. Because I have a responsibility to my shareholders to
protect the asset of the bank.
Q. Did you believe that Hamilton had other money that it could
use to pay you?
MR. FINKEL: Objection.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. I don't think that's important to the analysis, given the
fact that we had an obligation to protect our legal interest.
Q. So you spent money on the arbitration, correct?
A. I think that's confidential and privileged.
Q. You paid lawyers, right, sir?
A. Yes, so that's privileged, I believe.
Q. Well, the judge is right there. I'm not asking you for any
communications that you've had. I'm simply saying you paid
lawyers.
THE COURT: So what you and your lawyer talked about,
that's what's privileged, but the fact of making a payment is
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
not privileged.
THE WITNESS: I did not make a payment.
Q. I'm sorry. I just want to make sure. You did not pay?
A. We did not. We took a contingency arrangement. There
might be some minor out-of-pocket fees that we paid for.
Q. Okay. Now prior to filing the arbitration, you had
visibility into the bank accounts that Hamilton had at
Mercantile, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. There was money in those accounts, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Millions of dollars, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And there were Himalaya Exchange accounts there too, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And there were millions of dollars in those?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Did you ever ask Mr. Je to use any of that money
that was at Mercantile Bank to fund the transaction?
A. It became clear to us at that point in time, once we
learned of the government seizure, that the regulator would not
support a closing transaction, nor do I think we could suggest
that it would pass BSA standards.
Q. What about before you learned about the seizure?
A. What about——what's the question about "before you learned"?
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2881
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
Q. Before you learned about the seizure, did you go to Mr. Je
and say, why don't you just use the money that's already at the
bank?
A. No.
Q. Now as of September 16, 2022, it's fair to say that
Mercantile had more than $300 million on deposit, right?
A. We had a lot. I don't remember the exact number.
Q. Okay. Hundreds of millions?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And most of that money came from either the Himalaya
Exchange or Hamilton, right?
A. I believe so.
Q. North of 80 percent, right?
A. I——it was substantial.
Q. Okay. Also hundreds of millions of dollars, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And of those hundreds of millions of dollars, a significant
portion was meant for Himalaya Exchange customer redemptions,
right?
MR. FINKEL: Objection, foundation.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. They communicated with our compliance department about the
nature of the funds. I don't believe they communicated to us
about what their future purpose would be.
Q. Okay. When we looked at the redemption request from
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2882
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
Mr. Je——
A. Yes.
Q. ——that was to redeem money from Mercantile——
A. No.
Q. Well, Mercantile was being asked to send a wire, correct?
A. Yes, but the redemption was between ACA Capital and
Hamilton Exchange [sic].
Q. Understood. But the end product of that redemption, from
Mercantile's perspective, was to wire out money, right?
A. We received instructions to wire money that was related to
the redemption between ACA Capital and the Hamilton
Exchange——I'm sorry——the Himalaya Exchange.
Q. Okay. And you didn't honor that redemption request, right?
A. We did not.
Q. But if you had honored it——
A. Well, I object to calling it a redemption. From our
perspective, it's not a redemption request, it's simply a wire
request. I did not honor the wire request.
Q. Okay. So let's use that term.
A. Okay.
Q. Wire request. So let's just make sure we're clear. There
was a redemption event that happened, in your mind, within the
exchange, right?
A. Mm-hmm. Yes.
Q. Okay. And then as a product of that request, then your
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
bank would have wired money out of a specific account at the
bank, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And there was an account designated at the bank for that
purpose, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And that bank was not——withdrawn.
That account was not limited to only redemption
requests related to Mr. Je or his companies, right?
A. I don't know what you mean by limited. The account was in
the name of the Himalaya Exchange, the funds redeemed owned by
the Himalaya Exchange. They had exclusive authority over the
funds, so I don't know what you mean by designation or——it's
pretty simple.
Q. I just mean if somebody other than——if another Himalaya
Exchange customer other than Mr. Je had wanted to do a
redemption and then receive a wire, they would have come from
that same account.
MR. FINKEL: Calls for speculation.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Okay. Prior to Mr. Je making that request, had Mercantile
Bank wired out any money based on a Himalaya Exchange
redemption request?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Okay. Was that the first one you had ever come in contact
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
with?
A. Me personally? Yes.
Q. Okay. Now you testified that FV Bank is another bank in
Puerto Rico, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you learned that the Department of Justice had also
seized exchange money that was held at FV Bank, correct?
A. That was our understanding, based on rumor.
Q. I'm sorry. That was based on rumor?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Well, Mr. Je also told you that, right?
A. Later, yes.
Q. Well, as of September 23, 2022, you guys both knew about
that fact, right?
A. I don't recall the exact day he told us, but they did
communicate that.
MR. KAMARAJU: Okay. Could we pull up GX MER1205,
please.
THE INTERPRETER: Your Honor, can you please ask both
parties to slow down. Thank you.
THE COURT: All right. Please slow down.
MR. KAMARAJU: I will slow down, your Honor. I
apologize.
BY MR. KAMARAJU:
Q. Okay. Could you read the third message down.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
A. "He only knows FV Bank is frozen. He did not know the fund
nor the transaction issues."
Q. Okay. So that's Mr. Je talking to you, right?
A. Yes, on September 23rd.
Q. Okay. And you understood what he meant when he said "He
only knows FV Bank is frozen," right?
A. Yes.
Q. That's the seizure, the DOJ seizure at FV Bank, right?
A. Well, it says frozen, so it might have been a freeze. It
was unclear.
THE COURT: Who is "he" referring to?
THE WITNESS: Mahsud, who's the CFO. If you look up
earlier, I'm saying I'm speaking to Mahsud at 11, and I asked
if he was aware of what's happening, and he said, "He only
knows FV Bank is frozen."
Q. Now at the time of this message, the Department of Justice
had not seized any money yet at Mercantile Bank, right?
A. No.
Q. That wouldn't happen until much later, right?
A. Correct.
Q. But based on the FV Bank seizure, you had concerns that the
DOJ would come and seize money at Mercantile, right?
A. I'm sorry. Can you ask the question again.
Q. Sure.
MR. KAMARAJU: I'm sorry, but would you mind reading
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
it back, please.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
(Record read)
A. We just didn't know. If you say I have concerns, we had
concerns about many things.
Q. That was one of them.
A. Yes.
Q. And so you approached the exchange about taking a
compliance fee, right?
A. We didn't approach them. We notified them.
Q. Okay. You told them——
A. Yes.
Q. ——we're going to take a compliance fee?
A. Legal and compliance.
Q. Okay. And the legal and compliance fee was going to be
10 percent of what was in the Himalaya and Hamilton accounts at
your bank, right?
A. That sounds about right.
Q. Okay. And the exchange objected, right?
A. Yes.
Q. You took the money anyway, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And it was about roughly $28 million, correct?
A. That sounds about right.
Q. And you pulled that money out of the customer bank
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
accounts, right?
A. No.
Q. You put it into its own restricted account, right?
A. I didn't pull the money out of the customer bank accounts.
Q. Okay. So the $28 million that we've been talking about, it
stayed in the same Hamilton accounts?
A. Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood what you were saying.
Q. Okay. Sorry. It might have been a confusing question. Go
ahead.
A. We took the money out of the Himalaya- and Hamilton-related
accounts, and put it aside.
Q. Okay. Into its own account, right?
A. I don't recall the specific structure, but that sounds
right.
Q. But an account that wasn't in Hamilton or Himalaya
Exchange's name, right?
A. Correct. Correct.
Q. And as a result——withdrawn.
And you did that because you were worried that the
Department of Justice was going to seize the Hamilton and
exchange accounts at Mercantile and thus you wouldn't be able
to take that $28 million, correct?
A. I have legal opinions from my internal and external counsel
that——
Q. No, no. I just want to——
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
A. Let me answer the question.
Q. No, no. I just want to make sure you didn't disclose any
of the actual——
A. That's why I'm flagging it. Much of that was handled by
them, so it's hard for me to agree with the characterization of
your words, but that is not unreasonable.
Q. Okay. And like I said, not asking for your communications
with counsel, just for what's in your head. That made sense to
you, right?
A. That's a reasonable approach.
Q. And that's the approach you took.
A. I believe that's the approach we——we took.
Q. Now the Department of Justice came and asked for that money
back, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you gave them some of that money back, right?
A. Yes.
Q. But not all of it, right, sir?
A. No.
Q. Mercantile kept around $5 million, right?
A. I don't remember the precise number, but that's
approximately right.
Q. Okay. And I'm not holding you to a precise dollar figure,
but it's in that area, right?
A. Yup.
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2889
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
Q. And Mercantile spent that money, right?
A. We posted it with attorneys to——
Q. I'm sorry. I didn't understand.
A. We posted it with attorneys, that we felt like we needed
representation because of all the noise that's going around.
Q. Okay. So you used it to hire lawyers, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were using it to pay the bank's legal fees, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was money that had come from Himalaya Exchange
customers, right?
A. No.
Q. So it was not your understanding that the ultimate source
of that money was Himalaya Exchange customers, sir; that's your
testimony?
MR. FINKEL: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Now you originally took your legal and compliance fee
because you thought you had certain obligations to the
government, right?
A. And we needed to defend ourselves because we didn't know
what was happening.
Q. Right. And both your defense obligations and your
obligations to the government required you to respond to
requests for information, right?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. And you wanted to be able to pay lawyers to do that, right?
A. Yes.
Q. But you didn't want to spend your own money on that, right?
A. I'm not following you.
Q. Well, you didn't want to spend money that the bank already
had, right?
A. We didn't believe we contractually needed to. We could
spend the deduction that we took out of the account because
that's what the contract says.
Q. Okay. And that contract that you're referring to says that
you can take money out for compliance and legal costs, right?
A. Yes.
Q. But that's not all you used the money for, is it, sir?
A. I'm not sure.
Q. Well, didn't you use some of the money to buy an F1
sponsorship?
A. No.
Q. You don't recall testifying to that during arbitration?
A. I don't believe we used the money for legal and compliance
to buy an F1 sponsorship. We did buy an F1 Academy
sponsorship, which was much cheaper than an F1 sponsorship.
That was the first women's league for F1 drivers.
Q. Okay. Did the bank have its own money that it could spend
on that academy sponsorship?
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2891
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross
A. Yes.
Q. So the bank had the money to spend on the academy
sponsorship, but not on its own legal bills, right?
MR. FINKEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. We were just operating according to our contractual rights.
Q. Did your contractual rights allow you to exercise control
over fraud proceeds?
A. That's a question that really an attorney needs to answer.
Q. I'm just asking your understanding, sir.
A. I don't have an understanding of it.
Q. So that never occurred to you.
A. I think we had it reviewed by counsel and they responded.
Q. Okay. So even though you moved money out of those accounts
and then spent it on corporate expenses, the Department of
Justice has never suggested that they were going to charge you
or anybody at Mercantile with a crime, right?
A. They have never said that they would not charge me with a
crime.
Q. I asked the other question, sir.
A. What was the other question?
Q. Have they ever said that they're going to?
A. No.
Q. These folks here have never said that to you, right?
A. No.
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Q. And you're here, you don't have any kind of agreement with
them with respect to that, right?
A. Be more specific. I don't know what you mean.
Q. Have you ever heard of a nonprosecution agreement?
A. Not really. This is my first criminal trial.
Q. Okay. So it's fair to say you don't have one with them,
right?
A. I do not have a nonprosecution agreement.
MR. KAMARAJU: No further questions at this time, your
Honor.
THE COURT: Redirect?
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Mr. Collins, do you know what representations Miles Guo
made to customers of the Himalaya Exchange concerning
whether——well, do you know what representations Miles Guo made
to the customers of the Himalaya Exchange?
A. Other than some of the marketing material I've seen, which
I'm not sure I'd style as representations, I don't really have
knowledge.
Q. Do you speak Mandarin?
A. No.
Q. Do you know what the H Coin lockup is?
A. No.
Q. Do you know what AIAI is?
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A. No.
Q. What about A10; do you know what that is?
A. A10. I feel like that came across in something I looked
at, but I really don't know what it is.
MR. FINKEL: If we can pull up MER8, please.
Q. You were asked some questions during cross-examination
about the redemption or wire transfer that William Je sought to
get out of Mercantile Bank; is that correct, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. Now can you tell us, please, where William Je wanted to
send that redemption, that wire.
A. To a bank called First Abu Dhabi Bank based in the UAE.
Q. Did he suggest sending it to Silvergate Bank?
A. No.
Q. Did he suggest sending it to Mercantile Bank?
A. No.
Q. You were asked on cross about whether you thought there was
a difference between the messages that you received at 2 a.m.
and the sort of rest of the messages with respect to a
different transaction. Do you believe there's a difference
between the two?
A. Very much so.
Q. Can you explain why.
A. As I mentioned, I didn't respond to the prior messages. We
never had a conversation about how they could continue the
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transaction with the bank because we made it——it was clear to
us that the regulator wouldn't approve the transaction, nor did
I feel comfortable proceeding with a partner that appeared to
be the target of serious criminal prosecutions.
Q. You were asked some questions about Mercantile's due
diligence——is that correct——on cross-examination?
A. Yes.
Q. And I believe you said that part of the due diligence
process is relying on attestations by the client?
A. Yes.
Q. What do you mean by that?
A. We——we ask all clients to make certain attestations for
some——some of it's simple, like who are the UBOs of the
business, and we rely on their statements in part to understand
the reality.
Q. So the passing of due diligence by Himalaya Exchange relied
on statements made by employees of the Himalaya Exchange; is
that fair to say?
A. Very much so.
Q. And the passing of due diligence by G/CLUBS relied on
statements made by employees of G/CLUBS; is that fair to say?
A. Very much so.
Q. And same for G Fashion; is that true as well?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were asked some questions about what evidence you
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may have seen regarding the Himalaya Exchange and the UBO of
that. Do you remember those questions?
A. Vaguely.
Q. Have you attended this trial?
A. No.
Q. Do you know who the other witnesses are at this trial?
A. No.
Q. Do you know what the testimony has been or the exhibits
that have been introduced?
A. No.
Q. Is part of the due diligence process at Mercantile Bank
obtaining recordings of meetings between Miles Guo, Yvette
Wang, and William Je about use of funds?
MR. KAMARAJU: Object to the form.
A. No.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. No.
Q. Have you heard recordings of William Je, Miles Guo, and
Yvette Wang discussing use of G/CLUBS funds?
A. No.
MR. KAMARAJU: Same objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
Q. Fair to say those recordings are not part of your due
diligence process at Mercantile?
A. I'm not sure we knew they existed.
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O6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct
Q. Do you know who Haitham Khaled is?
A. No.
Q. The term "like-minded individuals," was that your term or
Ana Izquierdo's term?
A. Honestly, I don't have a strong recollection of who uttered
that into existence.
MR. FINKEL: One moment, please.
Q. Did you ever buy HCN?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever buy HDO?
A. No.
MR. FINKEL: Nothing further.
THE COURT: Recross?
MR. KAMARAJU: No, thank you, your Honor.
THE COURT: You may step out.
(Witness excused)
THE COURT: And the prosecution may call its next
witness.
MS. MURRAY: Thank you, your Honor. The government
calls Christine Frosini.
THE LAW CLERK: Please raise your right hand.
(Witness sworn)
THE LAW CLERK: Please be seated.
THE COURT: Please state your name and spell it.
THE WITNESS: Christine Frosini. C-H-R-I-S-T-I-N-E,
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Frosini, F-R-O-S-I-N-I.
THE COURT: You may inquire.
CHRISTINE FROSINI,
called as a witness by the Government,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. MURRAY:
Q. Good afternoon, Ms. Frosini.
A. Good afternoon.
Q. What kind of work do you do?
A. I'm a broker associate.
Q. If I could ask you to speak into the microphone. If you
could just pull it towards you.
A. I'm a broker associate for Prominent Properties Sotheby's.
Q. And what is Prominent Properties Sotheby's?
A. Real estate firm.
Q. How long have you been a realtor?
A. For 22 years.
Q. What sort of properties do you buy or sell?
A. Mostly residential.
Q. What types of clients do you have?
A. All sorts. I have first-time buyers, repeat buyers, all
different levels.
Q. What geographic area do you work in?
A. Bergen County.
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Q. And in what state is that?
A. New Jersey.
Q. Were you involved with the purchase of the property located
at 675 Ramapo Valley Drive in Mahwah, New Jersey?
A. Yes.
Q. What is the name by which you know that property?
A. Crocker Mansion.
MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could please pull up
for the witness Government Exhibit 134.
Q. Ms. Frosini, do you recognize Government Exhibit 134?
A. Yes.
Q. What is it?
A. Crocker Mansion in Mahwah, New Jersey.
MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government offers
Government Exhibit 134.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may I just ask one question.
THE COURT: Yes.
MS. SHROFF: Thank you.
VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. You didn't take the photograph, right, Ms. Frosini?
THE WITNESS: No.
MS. SHROFF: Thank you very much. No objection, your
Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
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(Government's Exhibit 134 received in evidence)
MS. MURRAY: If we could publish that, please.
BY MS. MURRAY:
Q. And if you could describe for the jury, please,
Ms. Frosini, what part of the Crocker Mansion are we looking at
at the front of this picture?
A. This is the front of the estate.
Q. And so if you could describe where, if at all, one would
approach the mansion, based on this photo.
A. This is the front of the estate where you have a circular
drive.
MS. MURRAY: And Ms. Loftus, we can take that down.
If we could now put up, for the witness only, please,
Government Exhibits 145 and 146.
Q. Starting on the left with 145, Ms. Frosini, do you
recognize what's depicted in Government Exhibit 145?
A. Yes, that's the——that's the entryway from Ramapo Valley
Road to the estate.
Q. And looking on the right at Government Exhibit 146, do you
recognize what's depicted in that exhibit?
A. You know, the house is kind of small there, but it looks
like the property.
Q. Which property?
A. The property of Crocker Mansion.
MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government offers
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Government Exhibits 145 and 146.
MS. SHROFF: May I just, your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. Ms. Frosini, you didn't take these photographs either,
correct?
A. No.
MS. SHROFF: I have no objection.
THE COURT: They are admitted.
(Government's Exhibits 145 and 146 received in
evidence)
MS. MURRAY: If we could please publish, Ms. Loftus.
And now that the jury can see it, Ms. Loftus, on the
left, on Government Exhibit 145, could you please zoom in on
the plaque that is shown.
Q. And Ms. Frosini, could you please read what's on that
plaque.
A. Crocker Mansion, 675 Ramapo Valley Road.
MS. MURRAY: Thank you, Ms. Loftus. We can take that
down.
Q. Ms. Frosini, what was your role, if any, in the purchase of
the Crocker Mansion?
A. I represented the buyer.
Q. And again, if you could just pull the microphone straight
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in front of you.
A. I'm sorry.
Q. Acoustics are tricky here. Thank you.
Who was the buyer that you represented?
A. The buyer was Taurus Fund.
Q. Approximately when did your involvement with this real
estate purchase begin?
A. November 27, 28 of 2021.
Q. And who was your primary contact for the buyer, the Taurus
Fund?
A. An attorney called Aaron Mitchell.
Q. Did you know Aaron Mitchell before this real estate deal
had started?
A. No. Actually, the call came in from Sotheby's
International, and they had answered that incorrectly.
Q. And when you say the call came in, can you describe what
you mean by that.
A. Yes, the——Aaron Mitchell contacted Philip White, who's the
CEO of Sotheby's International Real Estate, and Philip White
contacted the co-owner of Prominent Properties Sotheby's to
tell him that he had a client that wanted to see a couple of
homes, and then I was called in on it to help the buyer.
Q. Did there come a time when you had a discussion with Aaron
Mitchell regarding his interest in purchasing a property?
A. He contacted——yes, they contacted me to tell me the
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properties they were interested in seeing.
Q. And what properties, if any, did you discuss with Mitchell
during that initial conversation?
A. The two properties that they wanted to see, which was
Crocker Mansion and another property in Hyde Park, New York.
MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could please put up and
publish Government Exhibit 128.
Q. Ms. Frosini, do you recognize the individual depicted in
Government Exhibit 128?
A. It looks like Aaron Mitchell.
MS. MURRAY: Thank you, Ms. Loftus. We can take that
down.
Q. Ms. Frosini, in order to show those two properties you
mentioned, what, if anything, did you need from Aaron Mitchell?
A. I needed proof of funds. When you show properties at that
level, the sellers require proof of funds from the buyer.
Q. And what do you mean by proof of funds?
A. Proof of funds basically is that the buyer can afford the
property and you either——it either comes in the format of a
letter from the buyer's attorney or some people provide bank
accounts and they blank out the bank numbers.
Q. And did Aaron Mitchell provide you with proof of funds?
A. Yes.
MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could please show the
witness what's marked as Government Exhibit 1100.
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If we could just flip through a few of the pages,
please.
Q. Ms. Frosini, what is this Government Exhibit, Government
Exhibit 1100?
A. What——
Q. What information is contained in this exhibit?
A. Right here is a copy of the listing for Crocker Mansion.
Q. And flipping through the remaining pages of this Government
Exhibit, is it fair to say that this is your file from the deal
for the Crocker Mansion?
A. Yes, the executed contract. That's the executed contract
where both parties signed.
THE COURT: Ms. Frosini, if you would draw the
microphone close to your mouth so that we can hear you.
THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Mm-hmm.
THE COURT: You can move closer and move the chair
closer.
MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government offers
Government Exhibit 1100.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MS. SHROFF: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit 1100 received in evidence)
MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could please publish
Government Exhibit 1100 at page 63.
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O6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct
And we can zoom in on the top portion.
BY MS. MURRAY:
Q. Ms. Frosini, what is this?
A. Yes. That's the proof of funds.
Q. And what is the date on this letter?
A. November 25, 2021.
Q. Who sent this letter?
A. Aaron Mitchell.
Q. Looking at the top left, what is the name that's associated
with the letterhead on this letter that Aaron Mitchell sent?
A. Lawall & Mitchell, LLC.
Q. And what does the subject line or the regarding line read
for this letter?
A. Family Trust Real Estate Purchase.
Q. If I could ask you now to read the main paragraph of this
letter, starting with "This firm."
A. This firm represents Mei Guo and her Family Trust and has
done so for many years. I am aware of Ms. Guo's financial
wherewithal and can confirm that she is in funds to purchase
real estate in cash in an amount she determines, up to the full
asking price of the property she currently wishes to view and,
further, that such funds shall be held in escrow by this firm
to complete any transaction entered into by Ms. Guo or her
designated entity. I trust this is sufficient, but should you
have any questions, do not hesitate to contact me."
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Q. Ms. Frosini, at this time did you know who Mei Guo was?
A. No.
Q. Today, do you know who Mei Guo is?
A. I've met her.
Q. Who is she?
A. The daughter.
Q. The daughter of whom?
A. Of Mr. and Mrs. Guo.
Q. What, if anything, did you understand Mei Guo's involvement
to be with this real estate purchase?
A. To purchase the home.
Q. How, if at all, was Mei Guo involved in the purchase?
A. Excuse me?
Q. How, if at all, was Mei Guo, the daughter, involved in the
purchase?
MS. SHROFF: Asked and answered, your Honor.
THE WITNESS: I met her.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
THE WITNESS: I'm sorry?
THE COURT: Go ahead.
A. I met Ms. Guo once or twice at the house, Crocker Mansion.
Q. And this letter refers to the property she currently wishes
to view. What property, if any, is that referring to?
A. So this was used to view Hyde Park and Crocker Mansion.
Q. And did there come a time when you showed those two
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properties to members of the Guo family?
A. Yes.
Q. Which property did you show first?
A. Hyde Park.
MS. MURRAY: We can take that down, Ms. Loftus, for
the moment.
Q. Can you please describe the Hyde Park property for the
jury.
A. Hyde Park was a unique property that was located on the
Hudson River, very modern style.
Q. What was the approximate size of that property?
A. You know what, I don't recall the square footage of that
home.
Q. Would you describe it as a large home?
A. Not really. I mean, to some it may be large, but, you
know, it wasn't like——it wasn't huge.
Q. And who, if anyone, went to the showing at the Hyde Park
property?
A. Mr. and Mrs. Guo and then there were the driver——I drove
myself and met them there, but they had a driver and a couple
of security personnel.
Q. Do you know Mr. Guo's first name?
A. Miles.
Q. And his wife, do you know her name?
A. No.
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Q. Did Mei Guo attend that showing of the Hyde Park property?
A. She couldn't, and Aaron Mitchell said she couldn't go——
MS. SHROFF: Objection to the hearsay, your Honor.
THE COURT: Don't say what someone else said. Just
answer, did she or did she not attend.
THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.
A. No.
Q. Did Aaron Mitchell attend that showing?
A. No.
Q. Can you describe how long the showing took at the Hyde Park
property.
A. Maybe an hour.
Q. During that showing did you communicate with Mr. Guo?
A. A little.
Q. How did you communicate with him?
A. I introduced myself. We walked through the house with the
other brokers. You know, there was always a little bit of a
communication——I couldn't understand with the English that
well.
Q. In what language did you communicate with Mr. Guo?
A. Me? English.
Q. Do you know whether he speaks any other languages?
A. Chinese. I don't know what dialect.
Q. And Ms. Frosini, do you speak any dialect of Chinese?
A. No.
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Q. Do you understand any dialect of Chinese?
A. No.
Q. So during the Hyde Park showing what, if anything, did Guo
say about that property?
MS. SHROFF: Objection. It's hearsay.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. They just really walked through the rooms.
Q. And when you say "they," to whom are you referring?
A. Mr. and Mrs. Guo.
Q. When was the second showing of the Crocker Mansion?
A. After. So from that estate, we went to Mahwah, to Crocker
Mansion.
Q. Was that the same day?
A. Yes.
Q. Before we talk about the showing, can you describe the
Crocker Mansion for the jury.
A. Crocker Mansion is an estate, a replica of an estate in
England, big estate, on 12 acres.
MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could please publish
Government Exhibit 1100 at page 1.
Q. Ms. Frosini, what type of document is this?
A. This is called a listing.
Q. And for which property?
A. This is for Crocker Mansion.
MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could zoom in on the
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top portion, please.
Q. Looking at the photo here, Ms. Frosini, is that a photo of
the Crocker Mansion?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. And to the right, kind of the first line of text, "Last
LP," do you see that?
MS. MURRAY: We could highlight it, Ms. Loftus.
A. Yes.
Q. What does that refer to?
A. That means the last listing price, which means, you know,
that was the current listing price at that time.
Q. And then looking down several lines, there's Original LP.
MS. MURRAY: If we could highlight that, Ms. Loftus.
Q. Ms. Frosini, what does that refer to?
A. The original listing price.
Q. And so for the Crocker Mansion, actually, on what date was
this report run, looking at the top right?
A. So looking at the top, this was listed February 16, 2021.
Q. And for that listing, the last listing price was what?
A. The last listing price was 33 million.
MS. MURRAY: If we could zoom out on that portion,
please, Ms. Loftus, and zoom in on the paragraph that begins
down the page.
Q. Ms. Frosini, can you please read this paragraph from the
listing description for Crocker Mansion.
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A. "One of the world's magnificent and rare estates,
Darlington is an architectural masterpiece located within 25
miles of New York City. Originally constructed in 1907——"
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may we just have her slow
down because of the translation, please. Thank you.
THE COURT: So just speak more slowly, please.
A. Okay. "Originally constructed in 1907, this estate has
been meticulously restored, offering approximately 50,000
square feet of spectacular living space, and more than 12 acres
of marvelous grounds framed by the Ramapo Mountains. 21
bedrooms, 19+ bathrooms, rare woods, stonework and
craftsmanship throughout. Reception rooms of grand proportions
include great hall, library, tea room, and formal dining room.
Restaurant-style kitchen, movie theater, billiard room, indoor
lap pool with spa, massage room, wine room, game room, gym,
outdoor pool with cabana, majestic gardens with two fountains,
tennis court, 8-car garage, interior design and furnishings by
the world's top designers and artisans. For detailed property
information, see link on Amenity Report (added to documents)."
Q. And in the first sentence there's a reference to
Darlington. What does that refer to?
A. I'm not the listing agent. So——
Q. Do you have an understanding whether this paragraph refers
to what you know as the Crocker Mansion?
A. Yes.
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MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can we please go to page 64
of Government Exhibit 1100.
Q. Ms. Frosini, what is this document?
A. This is what's called an amenity sheet, which highlights
home features of the home.
(Continued on next page)
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BY MS. MURRAY:
Q. And focusing at the top of this document, can you read what
the bolded text reads?
A. Welcome to Darlington, 675 Ramapo Valley Road, Mahwah.
Q. And that address, 675 Ramapo Valley Road, that's the
address of the Crocker mansion, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. If we could zoom in on the top third, please, Ms. Loftus.
Are these photos of the Crocker mansion?
A. Yes.
Q. Let's go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus. If we could
zoom in a bit so it's easier to see.
Ms. Frosini, generally speaking, what is this?
A. This is a list of the renovations that the seller did from
2008 to 2018.
Q. I'm not going to go through bullet by bullet. Ms. Loftus
if we could go to the next page, please, and then the next
page.
Ms. Frosini, generally speaking, what was the extent
of the renovations that had been done as of the time of the
showing?
A. Enormous extent.
Q. And what areas of the Crocker mansion had been renovated at
the time of the showing?
A. The entire home.
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Q. So that's 1100 at page 67, can we put that back up. If you
could just focus on the very last line of text there.
Ms. Frosini, can you read that last line here?
A. Approximate cost of material and labor performed between
2008/2018 is $19 million.
Q. Thank you, Ms. Loftus. We can take that down now.
So turning to your showing of the Crocker mansion, who
attended that showing?
A. Mrs. and Mr. Guo, myself, the seller, the driver, the
Guo's driver and a couple security men.
Q. What type of car did the Guos arrive in for that showing?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Did you ride with the Guos to that showing?
A. No.
Q. Approximately how long did the showing take?
A. It was longer than Hyde Park. I'm guessing to say over an
hour.
Q. What, if anything, did Mr. Guo say about the Crocker
mansion during that showing?
MS. SHROFF: Same objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
Q. What, if anything, did Miles Guo, Mr. Guo, say about the
Crocker mansion during the showing?
A. Comments about the detail of the home basically.
Q. What are some examples of those comments?
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A. The detail of the millwork of the home and the quality of
the home.
Q. Based on your observations during that showing, what
impression, if any, did you have of how Mr. Guo intended to use
the Crocker mansion?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: If you'd step up, please.
(Continued on next page)
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(At the sidebar)
THE COURT: You said based on your observations how
did he intend to use the home. I don't know that she can state
his intention other than by what he may have said.
MS. MURRAY: Right. So it is based on her
observations. It's 701 opinion. She's a real estate broker
for 22 years. She taken people on showings. The question is
whether she formed an understanding during the showing from, as
your Honor said, from what she overheard or what she observed
or conversations she had; for example, whether it was to be a
family home, a residence.
THE COURT: I would like you to be more specific about
observation.
MS. MURRAY: I can draw that out a little more.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, we have a relevance
objection.
THE COURT: This is very relevant. Ms. Shroff, this
is highly relevant as to the purpose of the home.
MS. SHROFF: I know you're ruling against me, but I
just want to make my record for a minute. It's fine. Of course
the Court's ruling is always fine. I do believe that a real
estate agent's impression or observation of why a person is
buying a property is actually not relevant. The only relevance
here would be nobody's impression. Whether or not the
government can prove why he did or did not buy Mahwah is
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something they can prove elsewhere, but not by a real estate
agent's impression of what she thinks.
THE COURT: What he stated, what he communicated.
MS. SHROFF: But he never stated anything.
THE COURT: That has not been established that he
stated nothing. He talked about comments about the millwork.
MS. SHROFF: As to the purpose. The purpose of the --
I don't feel well today so you're going to have to excuse me.
The purpose of the mansion is not impacted at all by the
millwork. And also it's again her impression of why he was
buying the property is irrelevant. And most importantly here,
they've projected that it is May Guo who is the buyer of the
property, so it's May Guo's letter they have introduced as the
potential buyer of the property.
THE COURT: She can comment about statements made to
her, statements she may have overheard that may indicate the
intended use of the property. That's my ruling.
(Continued on next page)
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(In open court)
BY MS. MURRAY:
Q. Ms. Frosini, directing your attention again to the showing
of the Crocker mansion, what, if anything, do you recall about
what Miles Guo said about the property during that showing.
A. Not really any comments, that I love the home or anything
like that. Thank you very much. We'll talk it over and get
back to you.
Q. What, if anything, did Miles Guo say during that showing
about potential alteration or renovation to the property?
MS. SHROFF: Objection. She's answered to what Miles
Guo said.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. Can you repeat that. I'm sorry.
Q. What, if anything, did Miles Guo say during the showing
about potential alterations or renovations to the property?
A. Nothing. That was the first time that they saw the house.
Q. Now, after the showing of the Crocker mansion, what
happened next?
A. Next was -- and again, you know, this was 2021, but I
got -- I don't remember the time, the exact day, but I got a
call from Aaron Mitchell that they wanted to proceed with an
offer.
Q. The "they" you're referring to, Aaron Mitchell said they
want to proceed with an offer, whom did you understand him to
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be referring to?
A. He said his client.
MS. SHROFF: Objection to the hearsay. Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. His client.
Q. And, Ms. Frosini, generally speaking how did you
communicate with Aaron Mitchell involving the Crocker mansion
deal?
A. We text and phone calls.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we can display for the witness what's been
marked as Government Exhibit 1101, and if we could scroll
through this.
Ms. Frosini, what type of document is in Government
Exhibit 1101?
A. These are text that I received from Aaron Mitchell and my
responses, so it's both of our text back and forth.
MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government offers
Government Exhibit 1101.
MS. SHROFF: Objection. Your Honor. It's hearsay.
THE COURT: Overruled. It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit 1101 received in evidence)
BY MS. MURRAY:
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could please publish this, and we can
zoom in on this top portion that's the full screen. Thank you.
Ms. Frosini, the name of the contact here at the top
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of this chat message, can you read that?
A. Aaron.
Q. And the first message we see here, what is the date of
that?
A. November 27, 2021.
Q. Now, in these messages are the messages that you sent in
blue or in gray?
A. Blue.
Q. And then the gray messages are from Aaron Mitchell; is that
right?
A. Correct.
Q. If we could go, please, Ms. Loftus to page three.
So looking at the date here --
A. November 28, 2021.
Q. And looking at the bottom message in blue, can you read
what that message says, that's from you to Aaron Mitchell?
A. Wanted to keep conversation going. They can have estate
for 28 million furnished. FYI, original asking price was 39
million, adjusted price to 33 million in June. You can call me
later. Thanks.
Q. And the reference in that letter to estate, what is that
estate?
A. Crocker mansion.
Q. If we could go to the next page, please. Looking in the
middle in the gray message from Aaron Mitchell. What does that
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message read?
A. The nothing crazy one?
Q. Correct.
A. Nothing crazy about the property, right? Violent history,
stories of haunting, etc.
Q. What was your response to that message from Aaron Mitchell?
A. Mr. Guo ask me that about ghost, no violence that I know
of. Call me when you're done with dinner.
Q. What were you referring to here with respect to some
conversation you had with Mr. Guo about ghost?
A. Sometimes buyers will ask if there's been any violence in
the homes or oddities in the homes.
Q. With respect to Mr. Guo in particular, what was your
conversation with him?
A. About that question?
Q. Correct.
A. That I would find out.
Q. What, if anything, did he ask you?
A. I'm sorry.
Q. What, if anything, had he asked you that's referenced here?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor. That's hearsay
and it's asked and answered about this exact conversation twice
before.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. He asked, you know, if there were any ghost in the house.
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Q. When had he asked you that?
A. When we were at the property, when he saw the property.
Q. And the next message, Ms. Frosini, what is the date of
that? It's at the bottom of this page.
A. November 29, 2021.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we can zoom on that message from
Ms. Frosini.
Ms. Frosini, there's a reference in this message to
the foundation. Can you read that sentence. It starts with
please let?
A. Please let the foundation know that the owner is putting a
detail package of information together for them to review. I
will forward to you tomorrow. It's a lot of detail. I can
also go to the town and request to look at the file as well.
As far as known cemetery, fires, etc., the answer is no.
Chris.
Q. Now, Ms. Frosini, what's the foundation that you're
referring to here?
A. The buyer.
Q. And what was the name of that buyer?
A. Well, again, the name on the proof of funds was May Guo
Family Trust, but the name of the buyer when we're in contract
is Taurus Foundation.
Q. And, Ms. Loftus, if we could go to the next page, please.
Actually, the following page, excuse me.
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Ms. Frosini, focusing on your message here, the second
message on the page, what date and time was that sent?
A. December 1, 2021.
Q. And can you read just the first sentence of that message
after "Hi Aaron."
A. Owner ask me to put in writing so I will put together a
contract of sale. Please email me the title of who's
purchasing the property along with their address.
Can we put 10 percent right after attorney review
concludes, which is usually a three-day deal? Let me know
about closing date. Let me know about closing date owners are
fine with now December or January, and who is going to be
signing this, you?
Q. Now, Ms. Frosini, what were you asking for with the
language about the title of who's purchasing the property?
A. Because I needed to know who the title of the buyer would
be on the contract when I write it up.
Q. And what were you asking about in the last sentence when
you said, Who's going to be signing this, you?
A. Because we do contracts electronically now, so I needed to
know whose name or LLC or whatever it was going to be, I needed
to know who that was in order for me to finalize the contract.
Q. And if we could go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus.
Looking at the top, same date you texted Aaron
Mitchell again, and what was his response at 5:47 p.m. on
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December 1?
A. Need to speak to someone in UK repurchasing entity. Will
get back to you tomorrow a.m.
Q. Ms. Frosini, do you know whom Aaron Mitchell was going to
speak with?
A. No.
Q. By this point in the sale had you heard of Taurus Fund SP?
A. No.
Q. It continues here, if we could look at the next message
from Aaron Mitchell. It says, Would it be possible for the
father to come back to the house tomorrow (10 a.m.) and meet
Vinny as well. Who did you understand the father to be?
A. Mr. Guo.
Q. And who did you understand Vinny to be?
A. He managed the property for the seller.
Q. The next message from Aaron Mitchell begins with, one
concern the mother had was the AC was loud. Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. Who did you understand the mother to be?
A. Mrs. Guo.
Q. And that's Miles Guo's wife; is that right?
A. Correct.
Q. If we can go to the next page please, Ms. Loftus.
Looking at the second message on this page from Aaron
Mitchell, the second gray message on this page.
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A. December 2, 2021.
Q. And Aaron Mitchell text, They are five minutes out. Who
did you understand that to refer to?
A. The buyers.
Q. And then at 2:59 p.m. that same day, what did you text to
Aaron Mitchell?
A. What did I text?
Q. Mm hm. In the blue if we could highlight that, Ms. Loftus.
A. FYI, they just left.
Q. Ms. Frosini, do you recall a visit to the Crocker mansion
by the Guos on December 2, 2021?
A. Yes, we had a visit. I just, you know, the date, again it
was two years ago; but, yes, we were there.
Q. What happened during that visit?
A. They looked at the house in more detail.
Q. Can you walk us through what you recall about that visit on
December 2nd?
A. That they went through the house in more detail, every
room, and I wasn't with them all the time because I just let
the buyers go off, especially when they're there a second time.
They want to talk amongst themselves.
Q. And for this visit who attended? Who were the buyers that
came to that visit?
A. You know what, I don't really remember.
Q. Do you remember whether Mr. Guo, Miles Guo, attended that
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visit?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, asked and answered.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. Yes, and the daughter may have been there that day. I
don't remember the days; but, yeah, I don't remember exactly
who was there. I mean, Mr. Guo was there, and I believe maybe
the daughter that day. But again, I can't promise it was that
day.
Q. Focusing on Mr. Guo in particular, did you have any
discussions with Mr. Guo that day during that visit?
A. Casual conversation possibly. Again, there was a language
little difficulty, but casual conversation here and there.
Again, I didn't walk through the whole entire house with them.
Q. If we could go, Ms. Loftus, to the next page, please.
Looking at the top text here from you to Aaron Mitchell, what
is the date?
A. December 3, 2021.
Q. Can you read that message.
A. Aaron, if I were to get seller to agree to 26 closing
December 20, do you think that would work?
Q. What is the "26" here a reference to?
A. You know what, I'm looking at this myself here. You know
what, I don't know.
Q. Looking down a bit further there's a text from Aaron
Mitchell middle of the page. What information is he requesting
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about the seller?
A. Do you have seller's full name so I can put in a letter.
Q. And then a few messages down he sent another text that
begins with email. Do you see that?
A. Emailed you letter. Let me know if you need anything else.
Q. If we could go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus. This
is again the same day, December 3rd. The message from Aaron
Mitchell that begins, Hi, can you read that, please?
A. Hi, Chris, do you have the floor plans for Crocker.
Q. And what was your response?
A. I'll get it. Were they happy with sellers accepting their
offer? Seller may want to wait for me to send it until we have
the signed contract. I'll let you know.
Q. And what was Aaron's Mitchell's response to that text?
A. They were more focused on getting it ready for their taste,
so if I can get them quickly, great.
Q. Ms. Frosini, did you have an understanding of who the
"they" was that Aaron Mitchell was referring to?
A. Yes.
Q. Who?
A. Again, the buyers.
Q. And who were the buyers?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. The buyers were the Guo family.
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Q. Ms. Loftus, we can take that down. If we could pull up for
the witness, please, Government Exhibit 1102. If we could
scroll through.
Ms. Frosini, do you recognize the document in
Government Exhibit 1102?
A. These were the floor plans that were given to me by the
seller.
Q. Have you reviewed this exhibit previously?
A. When I received it.
Q. Are these various documents relating to the Crocker mansion
deal?
A. Correct.
MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government offers
Government Exhibit 1102.
MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor. May we have a
sidebar?
THE COURT: Okay.
(Continued on next page)
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(At the sidebar)
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, the document is an email
exchange between a person named Gladys Chow and the realtor.
There is no relationship or co-conspirator argument that would
make these exchanges admissible, and they are written hearsay.
So for those reasons, the email exchanges between Ms. Chow and
the real estate agent we would object to.
THE COURT: What do they say?
MS. SHROFF: She asks a lot of questions and the real
estate agent replies. She ask about furnishings. She ask for
recommendation for decorators. She asks for how and who she
should use to refurbish the place. There's no hearsay
exception to Ms. Chow's interaction with the real estate agent.
THE COURT: Who is Ms. Chow?
MS. SHROFF: Ms. Chow is an employee.
THE COURT: Of?
MS. SHROFF: I believe she's an employee -- I'm not
sure technically who she is an employee for. I really think
you should not laugh or scoff at me, Mr. Finkel.
MR. FINKEL: I'm not laughing at you. I was laughing
at your response.
MS. SHROFF: That's the same thing, my response.
MR. FINKEL: I apologize, Ms. Shroff.
MS. SHROFF: Ms. Chow's communication with the real
estate agent are hearsay, and for those reasons we would
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object.
MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, Ms. Chow is an agent of Miles
Guo. She is communicating with the real estate agent as she's
communicated with various other people on behalf of Mr. Guo,
asking questions for Mr. Guo, taking responses back to Mr. Guo.
Indeed, Gladys Chow was on the list of potential
attorney/client privilege that defense counsel provided to the
government a year ago. Because they said that she was an
interpreter in an assistant relationship with Mr. Guo. She was
so close that she might be privy to privileged communication.
She is frequently communicating, not only with Mrs. Frosini,
but with various other people, including; for example, Paolo
Sozzi, one of the government's anticipated witnesses about
additional renovations. And she is conveying information from
Mr. Guo and providing it back to Mr. Guo. She's clearly an
agent and there's an exception.
THE COURT: These emails come in. Let's move on.
MS. SHROFF: There's no evidence in the record about
the facts that Ms. Murray has recited at sidebar. There's been
no testimony to this effect. There's been no testimony about
Ms. Chow. There's been no testimony about a potential witness
to come obviously because the witness has not yet testified.
There's no establishment of an agency relationship between
Ms. Chow and Mr. Guo. And the fact that she would be on a
privilege could also reflect the fact that she translated for
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him after his arrest in the jail. So for those reasons,
there's been no establishment of an agency relationship between
Gladys Chow and Mr. Guo. Additionally, your Honor, the
government knows this full well because they approached
Ms. Chow and sought to speak to her, and she declined. None of
this is in evidence, therefore, I continue to object on
hearsay.
MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, I certainly intend to ask
Ms. Frosini the next question who Ms. Chow was and what the
nature was of her interaction with Ms. Chow.
THE COURT: The email comes in.
(Government's Exhibit 1102 received in evidence)
(Continued on next page)
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(In open court; jury present)
THE COURT: Go ahead.
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Ms. Loftus if you can publish what's now in evidence as
Government Exhibit 1102. Let's go to page 63. If we could zoom
in on this email at the bottom, please.
Ms. Frosini, what is the date of this email?
A. December 3, 2021.
Q. And who sent this email?
A. Aaron Mitchell.
Q. If you could read the email that you received from Aaron
Mitchell?
A. Does this work to show interest intent? Let me know if he
wants deposit, etc. or if he is good with the number. His
attorney can speak to our attorney handling the closing.
Q. And if we could go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus,
and zoom in on the content portion here.
Ms. Frosini, what is this?
A. This is a letter of intent.
Q. For what property?
A. For 675 Ramapo Valley Road, Crocker mansion in Mahwah.
Q. What is the date of this letter of intent?
A. December 3, 2021.
Q. I'm going to read the letter. Thank you for taking the
time to show representatives of my client your property at 675
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Ramapo Valley Road in Mahwah, New Jersey. My client has
authorized me to formally offer 26 million to purchase the
property. This would be a cash deal. Per you request closing
would occur on or before December 20, 2021.
First of all, who did you understand the
representatives of my client to be in this letter?
A. I don't know why he wrote it that way.
Q. This refers to --
MS. SHROFF: Objection. Move to strike as
non-responsive.
THE COURT: Sustained. If you'll read back the
question, please, and listen to the question and answer that
question.
A. You said thank you for taking the time to show
representatives of my client. I don't know what he means,
Aaron Rogers means by show representatives instead of saying my
client or the buyers. Maybe that's his term to say
representatives.
MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I move to strike everything
after "I don't know what he means."
THE COURT: From "maybe" I'm striking. Go ahead.
Q. Ms. Frosini, the reference here to showing certain people
the property, whom did you show the property to who was
associated with Aaron Mitchell?
MS. SHROFF: Objection to the leading.
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A. The Guo family.
THE COURT: Sustained. Who did you show the property
to.
THE WITNESS: The Guo family.
Q. If we could go to Government Exhibit 1102 at page 19,
please. Looking at this email at the top, what is the date of
this email?
A. December 6, 2021.
Q. And what property is this regarding according to the
subject line?
A. 675 Ramapo Valley Road.
Q. At the top of the content of the email starting with sent,
there's some text in bold and italics. Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. What does that read?
A. Sent on behalf of Bruce E. Whitaker.
Q. Who is Bruce E. Whitaker?
A. The seller's attorney.
Q. And looking at the first sentence here, start with attach,
what does that read?
A. Attach is a fully executed contract. Please note that I
have made one modification to paragraph 3C which is to have the
deposit held in our trust account. Please have buyer initial
this modification.
Q. And if we could go, Ms. Loftus, to page 21. That's the
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attached contract.
Ms. Frosini, if we could focus on item seven down to
the bottom, Ms. Frosini. Ms. Frosini, who's listed as the
seller on this signed contract?
A. Crocker Mansion Estate, LLC.
Q. And who was the buyer?
A. Taurus Fund SP.
Q. What did you understand Taurus Fund SP to be?
A. I don't know. I didn't ask.
Q. In your real estate practice, how often, if at all, are
entities the buyers of properties?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. For significant properties, people will put -- they won't
put their personal name. It will be either LLCs or trusts.
Q. Do you see the Taurus Fund's signature --
A. Yes.
Q. -- on this contract. How did you get a signed copy of this
contract?
A. Electronically.
Q. Do you know the corporate structure of Taurus Fund SP?
A. No.
Q. Looking at the bottom right here, is that your electronic
signature on this contract?
A. Yes.
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Q. If we could go to page 18 of this exhibit, Ms. Loftus, and
focus on the email from Ms. Frosini.
What is the date of this email, Ms. Frosini?
A. December 6, 2201.
Q. And to whom did you send this?
A. To Aaron Mitchell.
Q. If you could read the body of this email?
A. Congrats to the foundation. Attached is a fully executed
contract. Please see attorneys note below.
Q. Why did you say, Congrats to the foundation?
A. Cause I always congratulate the buyer.
Q. Ms. Loftus, we can take this down. If we could please go
to Government Exhibit 1101, page 12.
Starting at the top message, what is the date of this
message, this text message from Aaron Mitchell?
A. Any luck with the plans? They have called me three times
today. My or May and the mother really want to see them. I
want to keep them happy.
Q. And looking first at the date of this message which is just
at the top of this screenshot, what was the date that Aaron
Mitchell sent you that text message?
A. December 4, 2021.
Q. Who did you understand May to refer to?
A. The daughter.
Q. Whose daughter?
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A. Mr. and Mrs. Guo's daughter.
Q. Who did you understand the mother to refer to?
A. Mr. Guo's wife.
Q. And at the bottom here there's a message from you, the last
text from you on this page. It indicates, Just emailed you
floor plans. Please confirm receipt.
And on what date had you emailed Aaron Mitchell the
floor plans?
A. December 4, 2021.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could go now to Government Exhibit 1102
page one, focus on the email.
Ms. Frosini, who sent this email?
A. Gladys Chow.
Q. Who is Gladys Chow?
A. Gladys Chow worked with the family. I don't know her exact
tight.
Q. Just to be clear, which family did Gladys Chow work with?
A. The Guo family.
Q. What is the email domain used to send you this message?
A. HCHKTECH.com.
Q. Do you know what HCHKTECH is?
A. No.
Q. And what's the date of this email from Gladys Chow?
A. December 6, 2021.
Q. That's about two days after the text message of the floor
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plan?
MS. SHROFF: Objection to the testifying.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could pull up page 12 of Government
Exhibit 1101, focusing on the middle here.
The blue message from you, on what date did you send
these two messages to Aaron Mitchell regarding the floor plans
to the Crocker mansion?
A. December 4.
Q. And, Ms. Loftus, let's go back to 1102, page one, please.
How many days later did you receive this email from
Gladys Chow?
A. December 6.
Q. Who is copied on this email?
A. Aaron Mitchell.
Q. Ms. Frosini, can you read this email?
A. Hope you had nice weekend. We met the other day in the
Darlington tour, and I just have a few more questions. One,
would you know any interior kitchen designers, shades and rugs
company both New Jersey and New York that can recommend to us.
Number two, other than the attached floor plans, do
you have any other drawings that can be provided to us.
Number three, I have circled three areas on page three
of the floor plan. If we want to empty each one out and
convert each of them into one single room, around how long
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would that take. Thank you for your help.
Q. Ms. Loftus, we can zoom out of that, and if we could go
through the next few pages of Government Exhibit 1102. Stop
there for a moment.
Ms. Frosini, what is this?
A. This is a floor plan.
Q. For what property?
A. 675 Ramapo Road.
Q. If you could let us know what part of that property does
this floor plan represent?
A. I don't have my glasses, first floor.
Q. Thank you. We can zoom out of that. Let's go to the next
page. What part of the property is this?
A. Second floor.
Q. And the next page, please?
A. Third floor.
Q. Now, do you see red boxes on this floor plan?
A. Yes.
Q. Is it your understanding that those are the red boxes that
Ms. Chow was referring to in her email to you? We could go
back to the first page, Ms. Loftus.
Looking again at item three here in Ms. Chow's email,
do you see that, Ms. Frosini?
A. Yes.
Q. Let's go back to page four, please, Ms. Loftus. Based on
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that email, is it your understanding that these red boxes
indicate a portion?
MS. SHROFF: Objection to the leading.
Q. What is your understanding of what is indicated by the red
box?
A. I never answered this question because I wasn't involved in
any of that.
Q. Understood. Setting aside any response, if any, you might
have given to the question, what was your understanding of what
the question was?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, form.
THE COURT: Are you asking her whether she sees any
relationship between the question and what is on the screen?
MS. MURRAY: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. I really never commented on this at all.
Q. If we can go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus.
Which part of the house does this reflect, Ms.
Frosini?
A. Basement.
Q. And then the next page, if we could focus on this.
Ms. Frosini, this is an email from you, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Who did you send this to?
A. Gladys Chow.
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Q. Copying who?
A. Aaron Mitchell.
Q. What was your reply?
A. Thanks for your email. I will get names designers to you
tomorrow and will call the home manager regarding number two
and number three below.
Q. Who was the home manager?
A. The home manager was Vinny Labarberi.
Q. Let's go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus.
Ms. Frosini, what is Gladys' response to that email
that you had sent?
A. Thank you. It would be nice if you get us some -- she said
DWG. I'm thinking drawing -- files of the home both 2D and 3D.
Thank you.
Q. Ms. Loftus, we can go two pages down to page 10, please.
Ms. Frosini, what's the subject of this email that you
sent?
A. Floor plans.
Q. What did you provide with this email?
A. Additional floor plans that I had gotten from the seller.
Q. Ms. Loftus, let's go back down another two pages. Looking
at this on the kind of top right of our screen, Ms. Loftus, if
you could zoom in on what portion of the home this reflects.
Zoom out of that.
On the top right along the side, what level are these
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additional floor plans relating to?
A. Basement level flooring finish plan.
Q. And, Ms. Loftus, if we could go to the next page and
similar exercise. This is on the left, bottom left.
A. Crocker residence first level furniture floor plan.
Q. And the next page, Ms. Loftus, please. This one is on the
bottom left, which portion of the home are these additional
plans relating to?
A. Crocker residence, second level furniture floor plan.
Q. And the next page, please.
A. Crocker residence second level furniture floor plan.
Q. And finally the next page, please, Ms. Loftus.
A. Crocker residence third level furniture floor plan.
Q. If we could zoom out of that.
Ms. Frosini, how many levels were in the Crocker
mansion?
A. I don't know if I'm mixing. I believe there was above the
finish lower level there are three.
Q. If we could go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus.
Ms. Frosini, what is the subject of this email?
A. Designers.
Q. And the date?
A. December 15, 2021.
Q. Who did you send this to?
A. Gladys.
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Q. At a high level, what did these designs you sent to Gladys
do?
A. I just submitted the list to her.
Q. What type of designers are these?
A. Interior designers.
Q. All right. Ms. Loftus, let's go down to two pages down.
Let's zoom out. I think we're looking to go another page down.
Let's go back, Ms. Loftus, to Government Exhibit 1101, page 19.
These are again from the text messages with Aaron
Mitchell. The message at the top with Aaron Mitchell reads,
Yes, Yvette will be arriving with everyone at noon. Who is
Yvette?
A. Yvette worked with Mr. Guo.
Q. And then at the bottom here, what is the date of that
message if we look at the bottom half of these text?
A. December 13, 2021.
Q. What did you write to Aaron Mitchell on that date?
A. FYI, everyone is here.
Q. What was Aaron's response?
A. On my way. Thought we were meeting at noon.
Q. And then your next two responses, understanding one is a
bit cuff off?
A. So did I. They changed.
Q. And then you write, just spoke to Yvette. Do you see that?
A. Right. I think it finishes on just spoke to Yvette.
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They --
Q. Can we go to the next page, Ms. Loftus. Actually, let's go
back up one page.
Ms. Frosini, do you recall a meeting on December 13,
2021?
A. We were doing -- I'm just thinking of when the inspection
was. I don't have my notes. I don't know when the inspections
were. We had inspections of the home, and then we have
structural inspection on another day, and that may have been
that day.
Q. And who, if anyone, attended those inspections?
A. The home inspection -- and I may be wrong, the family
wasn't there. I was the whole time. Then again, I'm sorry,
but I'm just guessing. And then another day we had a
structural inspection, and I believe that's when they were
there.
MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor, to the guessing.
THE COURT: So don't guess. Just state what you know.
Q. Ms. Loftus, let's go to page 25 of this exhibit. Ms.
Frosini, in the first message from Aaron Mitchell, the
first gray message, can you read that message?
A. My message in the gray?
Q. Sorry, the gray from Aaron Mitchell.
A. Thanks, is any time going to be there Thursday or can
someone be there to let Scott in with contractor.
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Q. Who is Scott?
A. Scott was a security position. Don't know his title.
Q. Can we go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus, focusing on
the top portion of this message.
Do you see the text message that you sent to Aaron
Mitchell there?
A. Yes.
Q. It reads in part, I sent Gladys per her request a bunch of
high-end designers. Let me know if you guys need anything from
me. What type of designers had you sent Gladys the names of?
A. Interior designers.
Q. And let's go to the next page, please. If you could read
your first text message on this page to Aaron Mitchell?
A. I'll meet seller tomorrow morning. In fact, he wanted me
to schedule time between architect and principle, when or
tonight. Let me know.
Q. Who is principle?
A. The client, the buyer.
Q. And which individual in particular were you referring to
when you wrote principle?
A. The buyers, the family.
Q. Which family, Ms. Frosini?
A. The Guo family.
Q. And then looking down about two thirds of the way down the
page. There's a message from Aaron Mitchell starts with Scott.
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Can you read that in your response?
A. Scott will be there at 11.
Q. And what was your response?
A. Yes, I'm meeting him.
Q. If we could go to the next page, please, and read the top
two text messages, the first from Aaron Mitchell?
A. Can the architect and Vinny come to New York to discuss
plans.
Q. And then what was your response?
A. I'll ask when. Just a thought, don't you think it would be
best to meet at the home in case they need to walk the rooms.
Q. And then looking down a bit in this chain on December 17,
2021, the second message from Aaron Mitchell. So the last
message from him on this page, what does that read?
A. Can you send Amy the structural inspection invoice.
Q. Who's Amy?
A. Amy Buck is the real estate attorney.
Q. What real estate attorney?
A. She's the one that handled the closing for the buyer.
Q. And let's go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus.
We could zoom in on that. Looking here at the last
message on this page from Aaron Mitchell, what does he write to
you, starting with Did you?
A. Did you get a receipt for the $1500.
Q. Can you read that message again. I think you might have
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missed one of the words.
A. Did you get Y, the letter Y, a receipt for the $1500.
Q. Who did you understand "Y" to refer to?
A. Did you get Yvette a receipt for the $1500.
Q. Let's go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus.
Ms. Frosini, you wrote, Sent revised you and Amy.
Aaron Mitchell responded. Then your next message that starts
with Aaron. Can you please read that text message?
A. Aaron, please congratulate the buyers for me. They are so
nice and so is there staff. I need to talk to you about what I
can do for them to thank them as well. Thanks again, Aaron.
Q. In this message, Ms. Frosini, what individuals were you
referring to when you said the buyers?
A. The Guo family.
Q. And when you indicated their staff, what staff were you
referring to?
A. The security guys, Yvette.
Q. And those are staff of whom?
A. You know, I use the word "staff." Maybe that was
inappropriate, but these are the people that I met through the
Guo family.
Q. And let's look at the next message that you sent. What
date did you send, Hi Aaron?
A. December 22, 2021.
Q. Can you read that message?
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A. Hi, Aaron. Tomorrow, do you have a minute to talk. I'd
like to get the buyers something. In the meantime, is it corny
to send them a nice holiday beautiful floral arrangement?
Being the privacy factor, I don't know if they would want me to
send something to their Connecticut home. We can talk
tomorrow. Thanks.
Q. Ms. Frosini, did Aaron Mitchell ever respond to that text
message?
A. No.
Q. We can take that down, Ms. Loftus.
Ms. Frosini, after the purchase of the Crocker
mansion, do you have any knowledge of any renovations, if any,
that were done to the property?
A. No, I was never there.
Q. Do you know if at all that property was furnished?
A. No.
Q. Did you have any additional or further contact with Aaron
Mitchell?
A. No.
Q. Did you have any further contact with the Guo family
directly?
A. After the closing of the house?
Q. Correct.
A. Maybe about like two months after.
Q. What was the nature of that contact?
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A. To potentially look at commercial space.
Q. Where was that commercial space?
A. In Bergen County.
Q. Who, if anyone, contacted you about looking at commercial
space?
A. Aaron Mitchell was the contact, initial contact.
Q. And what happened?
A. And then I talked to the security, mostly the security
guys.
Q. Talk to them about what?
A. About potential commercial space.
Q. Did there come a time, if ever, when you did a showing of
potential commercial space in Bergen County?
A. Yes, there were a couple of buildings.
Q. Who, if anyone, did you show those buildings to?
A. Two security and Mr. Guo, just a couple of occasions, but
mostly security.
Q. What types of commercial space did you show to security in
Bergen County?
A. Office space.
Q. Did you have an understanding of who was going to use the
office space that you were showing?
A. Whatever business that the family --
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: You may answer.
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A. Whatever business, you know, the family needed the office
space for. I shouldn't say the family, Mr. Guo.
Q. Did there come a time when you learned the name of any
business that was going to be looking into that space?
A. No, never did a contract together.
Q. Was there any offer made on any of the commercial space
that you showed?
A. We never put a contract together.
Q. After those interactions, Ms. Frosini, relating to the
commercial space, did you have any other contact with the Guo
family?
A. No.
Q. And after the commercial space, did you have any contact
with the Guo family staff?
A. The staff.
MS. SHROFF: Objection to the phrase, Guo family
staff.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. No, just on the commercial.
Q. But after the commercial showings that you had?
A. No.
Q. What contact did you have with the --
A. The family, no.
MS. MURRAY: May I have a moment, your Honor.
THE COURT: You may.
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2950
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct
Q. Ms. Frosini, based on your interactions representing the
buyer of the Crocker mansion, what was your understanding of
why the buyer was purchasing the Crocker mansion?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. For their home.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could please pull up Government Exhibit
Z12 and go to page 19. This is in evidence.
Ms. Frosini, looking at the top of this document, top
left, what is the name of the company that's in the top left
corner in the box of this document?
MS. SHROFF: Objection. There's no question other
than to read the document. That's improper. She can ask a
question about the document.
THE COURT: Is the document in evidence?
MS. MURRAY: It is, your Honor.
THE COURT: And the question is again.
Q. The name of the entity listed on the top left here?
MS. SHROFF: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. Crane Advisory Group, LLC.
Q. And then the name on the top right in the box?
A. Top right.
Q. Yes?
A. Crane Advisory Group, LLC.
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2951
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct
Q. And, Ms. Frosini, have you seen this document before?
A. Never.
Q. Looking at the first box in the middle of the page with the
yellow outline, do you recognize the name of the entity listed
there?
A. Lawall & Mitchell, LLC.
Q. Do you recognize that company?
A. Yeah, that's Aaron Mitchell.
Q. And then looking at the bottom here, the three different
companies that are listed along the bottom starting at the
bottom left, what is that?
A. McDonnell Whitaker Attorney Trust.
Q. And the middle?
A. Insight Title Services LLC Trust.
Q. And the top middle right?
A. Buck Esquire LLC Attorney Trust account.
Q. Are you familiar with the Buck Esquire LLC?
A. That's Amy Buck, the attorney.
THE COURT: Attorney for whom?
THE WITNESS: The buyer, the real estate attorney.
The one that did the real estate transaction.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
Q. Let's go to the next page, please, and focus in on the top
portion.
Ms. Frosini, do you see the property location listed
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2952
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross
here, it's under item G?
A. Property location 675 Ramapo Valley Road Mahwah, New
Jersey.
Q. That's the Crocker mansion, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Looking to the right of that in item H, the settlement
agent, who is listed as the settlement agency?
A. Insight Title Services, LLC.
Q. And looking back over to the left a bit, item D here, name
and address of borrower, what's the name and address of the
borrower?
A. Borrower is Taurus Fund, LLC.
Q. And then finally item 101 on the left near the bottom of
the screen we're looking at here, what is listed as the
contract sales price of the Crocker mansion?
A. 26 million.
MS. MURRAY: Just a moment again, your Honor, please.
No further questions.
THE COURT: Cross-examination.
MS. SHROFF: Thank you, your Honor. Could I actually
have that exhibit back up. Thank you.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. Could I have the first page of that document.
Good afternoon, Ms. Frosini, how are you?
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2953
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross
A. Fine. Thank you.
Q. Ms. Frosini, you were just shown this document by
government counsel, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And you met with government counsel before today, correct?
A. Via zoom.
Q. Zoom or otherwise, you met with her, right?
A. I met with Micah Fergenson, and the first time I met her on
a Friday via zoom.
Q. Last Friday?
A. With Micah Fergenson, yes.
Q. And she showed you this document; is that correct?
A. No.
Q. I'm saying on direct right now she showed you this
document?
A. Yes.
Q. Right?
A. Yes.
Q. Asked you to read it, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Could you take a look at the document for me please, again.
You've never seen it before you said, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. You have no idea whether it's accurate or not, correct?
A. Correct.
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2954
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross
Q. Could you tell me where in the document you see the name
Miles Guo?
A. I see the name who?
Q. Miles Guo.
A. No.
Q. How about May Guo?
A. No.
Q. How about wife of Miles Guo?
A. No.
Q. How about daughter of Miles Guo?
A. No.
Q. How about staff of Miles Guo?
A. No.
MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, we stipulate Miles Guo is not
on this document.
THE COURT: All righty.
Q. So she also asked you about this group called Crane
Advisory, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. When you met with the prosecutors on Friday, did she ask
you about Crane Advisory?
A. No.
Q. Because you don't know anything about Crane, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And obviously you don't know anything about Hamilton
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2955
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross
Opportunity Fund, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And the only thing you know on here are the people that you
worked with, correct?
A. The two attorneys.
Q. Right?
A. Correct.
Q. And that's Lawall & Mitchell, right?
A. Yes, McDonnell Whitaker and Buck Esquire. I don't know
Buck Esquire personally, but I know the name.
Q. So we can take that down, please.
Now, if I could just go to Government Exhibit 1100,
and if I could just have you look -- could I have it made
bigger, please. Thank you so much. Could you tell the jury
who generated this document?
A. The listing agent, the sellers agent.
Q. And what's a listing agent?
A. The listing agent represents the seller.
Q. And where is this document made public, who sees it?
A. This was made public via New Jersey multiple listing
service.
Q. Like if somebody wants to buy a house, they see it?
A. Correct.
Q. And is it like advertisement come by my house kind of
thing?
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2956
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross
A. Sure. It notifies the public that the home is on the
market.
Q. And it tries to sell the home, right?
A. Correct.
Q. It highlights the plus points of the property, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And if you can avoid it, and if it's not required by law,
you don't necessarily publish the minus parts of the property,
correct?
MS. MURRAY: Objection, calls for speculation.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. Can you repeat that.
Q. Sure. And if it's not called for by the law, the
disclosure is not called for by the law, you don't necessarily
highlight the negative aspect of a property, correct?
A. I mean if there's something negative, I mean, you need to
disclose what's on the property. I really don't understand
what you're asking.
Q. So say if the third bedroom didn't get any sunlight, you
wouldn't put it on this report, right?
MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor, same basis.
THE COURT: Overruled.
Q. You wouldn't put that on --
A. It's not a highlight of the house, so you wouldn't put that
on there.
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2957
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross
Q. So you put the highlights of the house on that listing,
right?
A. Correct.
Q. So let's just scroll down for a minute, and could we keep
going down, please. And here is the description of the
property, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And you did not prepare this, right?
A. No, I did not prepare it.
Q. And in talking to you about this property, the government
counsel also ask you about a second property, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And that was at Hyde Park?
A. Correct, Hyde Park, New York.
Q. Was that the name of the property or the place?
A. That's the town.
Q. And do you know the name of that property sitting here
today? Do you remember it?
A. Ledge something, and I can't remember.
Q. Do you know which of the two properties was more expensive?
A. Ledge.
Q. Ledge was more expensive. The Hyde Park property was more
expensive than this one?
A. Correct.
Q. Can you please keep scrolling down and keep going. If I
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2958
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross
could just have that made larger. Could I ask you, is this
like a standard contract?
A. The National Association of Realtors, this is the contract
that realtors put together when you start negotiating a
transaction.
Q. And you use the standard format, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And if we could scroll down to the signature line, and it's
signed here, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And it's signed on the left side by the seller of Crocker
Mansion Estate LLC, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And who's that?
A. The seller.
Q. Yeah, but who is Crocker Mansion Estate, LLC?
A. That's the seller's LLC.
Q. You don't know who it is, right?
Is there a Mr. and Mrs. Crocker Mansion Estate LLC?
A. No.
Q. And the buyer is whom here?
A. Taurus Fund SP.
Q. And you received this document obviously cause you E-signed
it below, right?
A. Correct.
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2959
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross
Q. And for all your purposes, the buyer is Taurus Fund SP,
correct?
A. Correct.
Q. It's not Miles Guo, right?
A. It's Taurus Fund SP.
Q. And it's not Miles Guo, correct?
A. I don't know who it is. I didn't ask. I just prepare the
contract and it goes to the attorneys.
Q. Right. But it doesn't say Taurus, Miles Guo, right?
MS. MURRAY: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
A. It says Taurus Fund SP. I don't know who's included in the
fund.
Q. You knew a fund was purchasing it, correct?
A. When I asked the attorney who to write the contract, I was
told to put Taurus Fund SP.
Q. If somebody wants to sell this property now, the only
seller could be Taurus Fund SP, right?
A. I'm not an attorney. I don't know. If they changed the
name, I don't know.
Q. I'm telling you if that document remained in place?
A. Right.
Q. The only person that could sell it, entity that could sell
it, is the Taurus Fund SP, right?
A. Right.
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2960
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross
Q. And you reviewed this document and sent it back to whom?
A. I sent this document to -- once the buyer sells this
document, then it goes to the seller to sign, and then it goes
directly to the attorney.
Q. Whose attorney?
A. It goes to both attorneys, the sellers' attorney and the
buyers' attorney.
Q. And is it you who sent it to both the buyers and the
sellers attorney?
A. I distribute to the seller's attorney and buyer's, yes.
Q. You sent it to both the seller's attorney and buyer's
attorney?
A. No, I think I just sent it to the buyer. Sometimes what we
do if we're representing the buyer, we send it to the buyer's
attorney, the listing agent who is representing the seller who
then sends it to the seller's attorney, but they both get this
contract.
Q. And once they both get the contract, are you essentially
done with your part of the job?
A. Yes, the only thing -- yes, they disapprove of the contract
and they put the riders together. And my only part after that
is to schedule the inspections.
Q. Who files the title of the property?
THE COURT: All right. It is now 2:30. We're now
going to take half an hour break. You may step out. Don't
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2961
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross
discuss your testimony. we'll resume at 3:00 p.m. Remember,
don't discuss the case amongst yourselves. Don't permit others
to discuss it in your presence. Don't read, listen or watch
anything from any source that touches on the subject of this
trial.
THE LAW CLERK: Jury exiting.
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: You may be seated. Is there anything
before we resume?
MS. MURRAY: Not from the government, your Honor.
MS. SHROFF: No, your Honor. Thank you.
(Recess)
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2962
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO5 Frosini - Cross
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: Please have the jurors brought in.
(Jury present)
THE COURT: Please be seated.
Remember, Ms. Frosini, you're still under oath.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: You may continue the cross-examination.
MS. SHROFF: Thank you, your Honor.
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. Ms. Frosini, you had deep experience in the real estate
market in Mahwah, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And did you live yourself——I don't need an address or
anything——but did you live in that vicinity?
A. Yes.
Q. And had you sold property there before?
A. In Mahwah?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes.
Q. And would it be fair to say in fact that you were chosen to
make this sale when they identified this particular property
that was of interest to them?
A. Yes.
Q. Is that correct?
A. Yes.
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2963
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO5 Frosini - Cross
MS. SHROFF: Okay. If I could just pull up just for
the witness and me Defense Exhibit 60612.
Q. Now do you know what the National Register of Historical
Places is?
A. The——again, I'm not the listing agent, but the home,
because of its historic being, was registered, but I don't know
into what registries.
Q. And could you explain a little bit further about the
historic significance of this property.
MS. SHROFF: You can take that down. I'm sorry.
A. Again, I'm not the listing agent so I don't have that
detail.
Q. Well, you familiarized yourself with the property before
you marketed it, right?
A. I didn't market the property. I'm not the listing agent.
Q. I'm sorry. I apologize. Before you were going to sell it,
correct?
A. Yes, I know about——I know about Crocker Mansion, but I'm
not sure, you know, which——where it's registered as far as
historic value.
Q. Did you know that it was registered as an historic——
A. Yes, it's on the documentation that we received.
MS. SHROFF: Okay. And so if I could just bring 60612
back up just for the witness.
Q. And if you could just peruse the document, if you will. If
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2964
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO5 Frosini - Cross
I could have you look at page 1, maybe 2, 3.
Do you recognize this form?
A. No, I've never seen this form.
Q. I know you may not have seen it, but do you know what a
National Register of Historical Places registration form is?
A. I've never registered a home, historically.
Q. Okay. But do you know what it means to be on the National
Register of Historic Places?
A. Again, I'm familiar with registered homes as far as what
you can do and what you can't do when a home is registered.
But I don't——I can't answer to that.
Q. Okay. And do you, sitting here today, recall the many ways
that this home could be used as it was registered?
A. No. They had it listed as a residential home.
Q. So do you remember if it was listed for more than one use?
A. No. Residential.
MS. SHROFF: You can take that document down.
Q. So according to you, this home was only registered as a
residential home; that's your——
MS. MURRAY: Objection. Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Do you——oh, I'm sorry.
A. This was listed——
Q. I think the judge sustained the objection so you don't——
THE COURT: Don't answer.
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2965
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO5 Frosini - Cross
THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.
Q. And sitting here today, Ms. Frosini, do you know if that
house was in fact registered to be used as a social clubhouse?
A. No. It's residential.
Q. I didn't ask you if it was residential or not. My question
was: Sitting here today, do you know if that house could be
used as a social clubhouse?
MS. MURRAY: Objection. Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. Did you familiarize yourself with the different uses this
house could be put to before you sold it?
A. No.
Q. Had you been trying to sell that house before being
approached by the Taurus SB Fund?
A. No, before this time, no.
Q. And when you started to sell——is it fair to say you wanted
the house to sell?
MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. Mischaracterizes.
Ms. Frosini is the buyer, not the seller.
THE COURT: So she's not representing the seller in
the transaction, she's representing the buyer. Sustained.
Q. You wanted somebody to buy the home, right?
A. I'm not the listing agent, so the seller wants the house to
sell. I represented the buyer, not the listing——not the
seller. I didn't represent the seller.
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2966
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO5 Frosini - Cross
Q. Okay. You represented the buyer, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Do you make any money if the house is bought?
A. Yes. The broker gets a commission.
Q. Right. So if you're representing the buyer, you still want
the house to be bought, right?
A. That's our business.
Q. Exactly. How else are you going to make money, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And you wanted to make sure that the buyer went
ahead and bought, right?
A. I want the buyer to buy a house, if not from me, if it's
right for the buyer.
Q. And also it's good for you, right?
A. I can't answer the——my focus is on my clients, on my
sellers and my buyers and what's best for them. I'm not
looking at my pocket. This is my work, but I don't look at my
pocket. I do the best for my sellers and buyers.
Q. Okay. And when you want to make sure that you want to do
the best for your buyer, you want to make sure you have all the
information about the property, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. You want to be accurate about what the buyer can put the
property to use for, correct?
A. Correct, but I'm showing it as a residential home.
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2967
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO5 Frosini - Cross
Q. You think you're selling it as a residential home, correct?
MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, objection. Again,
mischaracterizes as the seller.
THE COURT: So——
MS. SHROFF: I'll rephrase, your Honor.
THE COURT: Yes.
Q. The buyer did not ask to see a residential home, correct;
the buyer asked to see a specific property?
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. The home is listed on——as a residential. It says it on the
MLS, home. The buyer asked to see the two homes, yes.
Q. The buyer asked to see the two properties.
A. The two properties, yes.
Q. Correct? Never said homes, said properties, correct?
MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. The witness is
testifying, not Ms. Shroff.
THE COURT: So you can ask her whether the buyer used
the word "home" or "property."
Q. The buyer used the word "properties," correct?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Okay. And let me show you again what is marked as Defense
Exhibit 60612 just for identification.
MS. SHROFF: And if I could go to page 3 of 4.
Your Honor, actually, could I just have one moment,
please.
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2968
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6H1GUO5 Frosini - Cross
THE COURT: Yes, go ahead.
Q. And do you recall if this property was called Crocker
McMillin Mansion/Immaculate Conception Seminary?
MS. SHROFF: You can take that down, please.
A. I personally never saw that.
Q. And sitting here today, do you know if various people have
visited that property and that it was part of the marketing,
that it was visited by certain people?
A. I don't——I didn't represent it for the seller so I don't
know who they showed the house to.
Q. Okay. So because you're representing the buyer, you
weren't really trying to sell, quote-unquote, the property,
correct?
A. I wasn't marketing it. I was working for the buyer, and if
the buyer wanted the property, then absolutely, I, you know,
helped the buyer purchase the property.
Q. Fair enough. And do you know if the seller had ever
marketed it as a place that made it clear it could be used as a
social clubhouse?
MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. How would
Ms. Frosini know that?
MS. SHROFF: Because she would interact with the
seller, and the seller's agent.
THE COURT: You may answer the question.
A. The seller, you know, I don't know what he did with the
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house.
Q. Fair enough.
MS. SHROFF: Thank you. I have nothing further.
THE COURT: Redirect?
MS. MURRAY: Thank you, your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. MURRAY:
Q. Ms. Frosini, you were asked some questions on
cross-examination about the Taurus Fund. Do you recall those?
A. Yes.
Q. Who told you that the purchasing entity of the Crocker
Mansion was the Taurus Fund SB?
A. Aaron Mitchell.
Q. And what individuals did Aaron Mitchell introduce you to in
connection with the purchase of the Crocker Mansion?
A. The Guo family.
MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could please pull up
Government Exhibit 1101 at page 8.
Q. Focusing on the first Aaron Mitchell text, Ms. Frosini,
this is a question regarding the purchasing entity for the
Crocker Mansion; is that correct?
MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor. Beyond the scope.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. What——Aaron said he needed to check to see who was going to
be, yes, the purchasing entity.
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Q. And do you know with whom, if anyone, in the UK Aaron
Mitchell checked to find out the name of the purchasing entity?
A. No.
MS. MURRAY: Thank you, your Honor. Nothing further.
MS. SHROFF: May I, your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
MS. SHROFF: Could you put that back up, please.
Thank you.
Can we make it larger.
RECROSS EXAMINATION
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. You're texting back and forth with Aaron Mitchell, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. "Aaron, please call me. Thx." That's you texting?
A. Yes.
Q. And then he texts you back, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. December 1, 2021?
A. Correct.
Q. At 5:47 p.m.?
A. Correct.
Q. "Need to speak to someone in UK re: purchasing entity."
A. That's what Aaron said.
Q. What's an entity?
A. Because I had asked——
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Q. What's an entity?
A. Entity who's purchasing the property, the home.
Q. It's not a person, correct?
A. The——correct.
Q. It's not an individual, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And he says, "Will get back to you tomorrow am," and he's
going to talk to someone in the UK?
A. Yes, correct.
Q. And you say, "Thanks Aaron," correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Nothing further from you on that topic, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. No question who's the entity, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Nothing at all about the purchasing entity, correct?
A. Correct.
MS. SHROFF: Nothing further.
MS. MURRAY: Just briefly, your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. MURRAY:
Q. Ms. Frosini, do you know where William Je lives?
A. William Je?
MS. SHROFF: Objection. Beyond the scope.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer it.
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A. Excuse me. Who?
Q. William Je.
A. No.
MS. MURRAY: Thank you. Nothing further.
MS. SHROFF: I have one more question, your Honor.
RECROSS EXAMINATION
BY MS. SHROFF:
Q. Do you even know who William Je is?
A. No.
MS. SHROFF: All right. Thank you.
THE COURT: All righty. So you may step out. Thank
you.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
THE COURT: And the government may call its next
witness.
(Witness excused)
MR. FINKEL: The government calls Limarie Reyes.
THE LAW CLERK: Would you please raise your right
hand.
(Witness sworn)
THE LAW CLERK: Thank you.
THE COURT: All righty. Please be seated. And bring
the microphone very close to your mouth so that we can hear
you. Speak up. Say your name and spell it.
THE WITNESS: My name is Limarie Reyes, spelled
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L-I-M-A-R-I-E, R-E——
THE COURT: So I'm having trouble hearing you, so you
really have to bring the microphone all the way to your mouth
and speak loud, into the microphone.
THE WITNESS: My name is Limarie Reyes, spelled
L-I-M-A-R-I-E, R-E-Y-E-S.
THE COURT: You may inquire.
MR. FINKEL: Thank you, your Honor.
LIMARIE REYES,
called as a witness by the Government,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Good afternoon.
A. Good afternoon.
Q. What area of the country do you live in?
A. Puerto Rico.
Q. Where do you currently work?
A. I've been unemployed. I'm working right now in my business
for events.
Q. For what?
A. Event planning.
Q. What's the name of that business?
A. Sprinkle Events.
Q. What kind of events does Sprinkle Events plan?
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A. We do kids' parties, birthday parties, small corporate
events as well.
Q. How many employees does Sprinkle Events have?
A. Just me.
Q. How many events has Sprinkle Events planned?
A. Roughly around five.
Q. And you said kids' parties. How old are the children for
the parties?
A. One year, mainly, and 10.
Q. How long have you worked at——or had Sprinkle Events?
A. Since November.
Q. What's the approximate budget of the events at Sprinkle
Events, for those five events?
A. Roughly around 2500.
Q. Now you said before Sprinkle Events that you were
unemployed for a bit?
A. Yes.
Q. Before that, where did you work?
A. I worked at G/CLUBS.
Q. And what was your role at G/CLUBS?
A. Changed over time. I started as VP of marketing and
events; later on I became the interim CEO and later the CEO.
THE COURT: So I'll need you to just get very close to
the microphone so that everyone in the courtroom can hear you.
Q. When did you start at G/CLUBS, approximately?
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A. December 2020.
Q. And what was your title when you started?
A. VP of marketing and events.
Q. And when did you become, you said, the interim CEO?
A. Around February 2021.
Q. And when did you become the CEO?
A. Around summer 2021.
Q. Ms. Reyes, as the CEO of G/CLUBS, did you have final
decision-making authority on all matters concerning G/CLUBS?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Were you in charge of G Club?
A. No, I was not.
Q. As part of your role as CEO, did you get updated on the
revenues, the monthly revenues of G/CLUBS?
A. Not on a regular basis, no.
Q. Did you set the budget at G/CLUBS?
A. No.
Q. As the CEO of G/CLUBS, who did you report to?
A. I reported to the ultimate beneficial owner, UBO, Mr. He.
THE COURT: Okay. So your voice is very low, and I
need for you to speak up because the reporter here is writing
down what you say, and also all the people in the back row,
they need to hear you, so speak loudly.
THE WITNESS: Sorry.
Q. Who did you report to? When you were the CEO of G/CLUBS,
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who did you report to?
A. Mr. He.
Q. What was his first name?
A. Haoran He.
Q. How do you spell He?
A. H-E.
Q. Did you report to anybody else?
A. Yes, I reported to Yvette as well.
Q. What's her last name?
A. Wang.
Q. When did you leave G/CLUBS?
A. March 2023.
Q. So in total, Ms. Reyes, how long were you the interim and
CEO of G/CLUBS?
A. I was with G/CLUBS around two and a half years.
Q. And what was your understanding of what G/CLUBS was
supposed to be?
A. It was a membership club that provided benefits to its
members.
Q. Was G/CLUBS a political organization?
A. No.
Q. How much did it cost to become a G/CLUBS member?
A. It depended on the different tiers. It would range from
$10,000 to $50,000, depending on the tier.
Q. And how many tiers were there?
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A. Five.
Q. How much did each tier cost?
A. Tier 1 was 10,000; tier 2, 20,000; tier 3, 30,000; tier 4,
40,000; tier 5, 50,000.
Q. Was there a yearly fee for membership?
A. Yes. So after the initial fee, the yearly fee was
5 percent of their tier.
Q. And if a member didn't pay their yearly fee, what happened
to their membership?
A. It would get inactivated.
Q. And if it was inactivated, could the member use the
benefits that G/CLUBS provided?
A. No.
Q. Ms. Reyes, did G/CLUBS provide its members stock in
G/CLUBS?
A. No, it did not.
Q. Did G/CLUBS provide its members stock in G Fashion?
A. No.
Q. Did G/CLUBS provide its members stock in any company?
A. No.
Q. Was G/CLUBS an investment club?
A. No.
MR. FINKEL: Ms. Loftus, if we can please display
what's in evidence as GX C160-V. Go to 11:35.
Q. Ms. Reyes, do you recognize the individual on your screen?
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A. Yes.
Q. Who is it?
A. Mr. Guo.
Q. What's his first name?
A. Miles Guo.
Q. Do you know him by any other names?
A. Kwok.
Q. How do you spell that?
A. K-W-O-K? I'm not sure.
Q. Did people that you worked with at G/CLUBS and yourself
call Miles Guo by any other titles?
A. I've heard Boss, principal.
MR. FINKEL: Ms. Loftus, you can play that, please.
(Video played)
MR. FINKEL: Pause right there.
Q. Ms. Reyes, is what Mr. Guo just said, that if you get a
$50,000 membership with G Club you get G Fashion stocks, true?
A. No.
Q. Do you see Mr. Guo in the courtroom here today?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you point him out——
MR. KAMARAJU: We'll stipulate to identity, your
Honor.
THE COURT: All righty. Go ahead.
Q. Is it true that memberships at G Club were limited, that
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there was only certain space available?
A. No.
MR. FINKEL: You can take that down.
Q. At the time that you were working at G/CLUBS, had you seen
that video that we just watched here in court?
A. Not that I recall, no.
Q. When you were the CEO of G/CLUBS, Ms. Reyes, did there come
a time when you became aware that G/CLUBS members expected to
receive stock?
A. Yes, there was a time.
THE COURT: All right. I have to remind you to keep
your voice up so that the jury and the rest of us can hear your
testimony.
Q. You can move the microphone as close to you as you like.
Feel free to move it to make yourself comfortable. Try to
speak directly into the mic, okay?
Ms. Reyes, what was your understanding as to why
G/CLUBS members expected, or some of them expected to receive
stock when they purchased a G/CLUBS membership?
MR. KAMARAJU: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
Q. You can answer.
A. Could you repeat the question. Sorry.
Q. What was your understanding as to why some G/CLUBS members
expected to receive stock when they purchased a G/CLUBS
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membership?
A. There had been a video where Mr. Guo had mentioned that
they would get stock.
Q. Ms. Reyes, when you were the CEO of G/CLUBS, when did you
tell Mr. Guo that he shouldn't say that G/CLUBS members receive
stock?
MR. KAMARAJU: Objection. Lack of foundation.
THE COURT: All righty. So let's take it a little
slower.
MR. FINKEL: Sure.
Q. Ms. Reyes, did there come a time, if ever, when you were
the CEO of G/CLUBS where you told Mr. Guo to not say in videos
that G/CLUBS members receive stock?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Why didn't you say that to him?
A. I didn't feel I had the authority to say that to him.
Q. What do you mean you didn't feel like you had the authority
to say that to Mr. Guo?
A. I didn't view myself as a person to say that. I would rely
on the owner, not me.
Q. Who's that?
A. Mr. He.
Q. We'll go back to G/CLUBS in a moment.
Ms. Reyes, are you testifying here pursuant to an
agreement with the government?
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A. Yes.
Q. And what type of agreement, or what is that agreement
called?
A. Nonprosecution agreement.
Q. And what is your understanding of what your obligations are
under that nonprosecution agreement?
A. I have to tell the truth, provide information when asked,
attend meetings, testify if requested, and not commit crimes.
Q. And if you meet your obligations under the nonprosecution
agreement, what has the government promised to do for you?
A. Not charge with any crimes during my time in G/CLUBS.
Q. I didn't hear the last part.
A. During my time in G/CLUBS.
THE COURT: So maybe if you just get so close to the
microphone that you're almost touching it. Get very close.
MR. FINKEL: You can move the microphone. It's okay.
All right? You can move it.
Q. Aside from the nonprosecution agreement covering you for
your conduct at G/CLUBS, does it cover you for anything else?
A. Sorry. Could you repeat that.
Q. Sure. You said the nonprosecution agreement, if you meet
what you have to do under it, the government won't charge you
for your work when you worked at G/CLUBS. Aside from that, is
there anything else that the government won't charge you for?
A. No.
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Q. If you lie here today, what would happen to your
nonprosecution agreement?
A. It would get canceled, null.
Q. And if you lie here today, could you be charged for
perjury?
A. Yes.
Q. And the statements that you provided to the government in
the past, could those be used against you if your
nonprosecution agreement is torn up?
A. I believe so.
Q. How many times have you met with the government in advance
of your testimony today, approximately?
A. I would say more than ten.
Q. Ms. Reyes, does the outcome of this trial or any trial have
any impact on whether your nonprosecution agreement gets torn
up or not?
MR. KAMARAJU: Objection to form.
Q. I'll rephrase it. Withdrawn.
Does the outcome of this trial have any impact on your
nonprosecution agreement?
A. No.
Q. Who's Steve Weber?
A. Steve Weber is the recruiting person that interviewed me
for my role in G/CLUBS.
Q. And after you interviewed with Steve Weber who, if anyone,
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did you interview with?
A. I interviewed with Jessica and Yvette.
MR. FINKEL: Can we please display what's in evidence
as Government Exhibit 102.
Q. Ms. Reyes, who is depicted in Government Exhibit 102?
A. Yvette.
Q. What questions did Yvette ask you during your interview for
G/CLUBS?
A. She asked me about my history and my past jobs, my event
experiences, what I——what I had done prior.
Q. Ms. Reyes, what languages do you speak?
A. Spanish and English.
Q. Do you speak Mandarin?
A. No.
Q. Did Ms. Wang ask you if you spoke Mandarin?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. Did Yvette ask you about your political beliefs?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. Did she ask you about the Chinese Communist Party?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. Did she ask you your position, if any, on democracy in
China?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. What is your position, if any, on the Chinese Communist
Party?
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A. I don't have a position.
Q. Do you follow Chinese politics?
A. No.
Q. Would you say you're familiar with Chinese culture?
A. No.
Q. Did Yvette mention anything during your interview about the
New Federal State of China?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. Are you a member of the New Federal State of China?
A. No.
Q. Did Yvette mention that G/CLUBS had anything to do with the
whistleblower movement during your interview?
A. Not that I recall.
MR. FINKEL: If we can display what's been marked for
identification as GX BR470, just for the witness, please.
Go to the next page, please.
Next page.
Take that down for a second.
One moment, please.
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Ms. Reyes, in connection with your interview with Yvette,
did Yvette mention someone named Victor?
A. Sorry. During my——
Q. In connection with your interview for G/CLUBS, before you
were hired with Yvette, did Yvette mention someone named
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Victor?
A. Not during the interview, but through the——the different
communications, yes.
Q. And who was Victor?
A. At the time I didn't know, but later on I learned that he's
an attorney.
Q. What's his last name?
A. Cerda.
MR. FINKEL: Can you please display what's in evidence
as GX 109.
Q. Who is this individual in GX 109?
A. Victor.
Q. Why did Yvette mention Victor during your interview process
with G/CLUBS; do you know?
A. I don't know.
MR. KAMARAJU: Objection to form.
THE COURT: Sustained. How can she possibly know
what's in the mind of Yvette?
Q. Did Yvette say anything about why she mentioned Victor in
the context of your interview for G/CLUBS?
A. That he might be reaching out.
Q. For what?
A. Interview.
Q. After interviewing with Yvette, were you hired?
A. Yes, I was hired.
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Q. In what role?
A. VP of marketing and events.
Q. And what was your salary when you started at G/CLUBS?
A. Roughly around 100,000.
Q. And the job you were working at before G/CLUBS, what were
you doing at that job?
A. Events manager.
Q. What was your salary at that prior job?
A. Around 60,000.
Q. When you started, Ms. Reyes, where were G/CLUBS' offices
located?
A. When I started, it was a co-working space, and later then
we got our office space in San Juan.
Q. And the co-working space was where?
A. San Juan.
Q. Puerto Rico?
A. Correct.
Q. How many employees were there when you started at the
co-working space in San Juan, Puerto Rico?
A. Just me.
Q. What was your understanding, if any, about why G/CLUBS was
based in Puerto Rico?
A. To my understanding was to benefit from the tax incentives.
Q. When you were working at G/CLUBS, Ms. Reyes, how were you
paid?
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A. Via direct deposit.
Q. And did G/CLUBS provide health insurance?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there a payroll system?
A. Yes.
Q. And when you were at G/CLUBS, did you believe it was a
legitimate business?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you believe you were committing any crimes?
A. No.
Q. Were there other employees hired after you?
A. Yes.
Q. During your time at G/CLUBS, approximately how many
employees were there? What was the range?
A. 14.
Q. And you said that you moved from the co-working space to
another office; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And where was that other office located?
A. San Juan as well.
Q. And where? Was it an office building? Can you describe
what the office was like.
A. Yes, it was an office building in San Juan area. It was a
floor. It had views to the ocean.
Q. Did there come times while you were employed at G/CLUBS
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where the cable or internet would go out?
A. Yes.
Q. And what would the employees say, if anything, when that
would happen?
A. They would joke about it was the CCP.
Q. It was what?
A. The CCP.
Q. Why would employees joke that it was the CCP when the
internet went out?
A. Because we had heard that many things were due to the CCP.
Q. Do you believe the CCP put the cable out at G/CLUBS?
MR. KAMARAJU: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may say what you believe.
Q. You can answer.
A. I don't know.
Q. As far as you know, when did G/CLUBS start? Do you know a
date?
A. 2020.
Q. And you mentioned Haoran He; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. What was your understanding of his role at G/CLUBS?
A. The ultimate beneficial owner.
MR. FINKEL: If we can please display what's been
marked for identification as GX 112.
Q. Do you recognize the individual depicted in GX 112?
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A. Yes.
Q. Who is it?
A. Mr. He.
MR. FINKEL: Government offers 112.
MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit 112 received in evidence)
Q. Ms. Reyes, in what manner did you communicate with Mr. He?
A. I communicated with him via email, WhatsApp, and voice
calls.
Q. What was his email address, Mr. He's email address?
A. Coolhhr@protonmail.com.
Q. What is Proton Mail?
A. The email base that he used.
Q. What was your email address at G/CLUBS?
A. Lreyes@gclubs.com.
Q. Why did your email address end at gclubs.com but Mr. He had
a Proton Mail address?
MR. KAMARAJU: Objection to form.
THE COURT: I'll permit the question.
Q. You can answer.
A. I don't know.
Q. The other employees you worked with in Puerto Rico, did
they have Proton email addresses or G/CLUBS email addresses?
A. G/CLUBS.
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Q. What was your understanding of where Mr. He was located?
A. Where did he live?
Q. Yeah.
A. In the UK.
Q. Did Mr. He ever visit the office in Puerto Rico?
A. No.
Q. How many times had you met Mr. He in person?
A. Twice.
Q. How frequently would you speak with Mr. He when you were
the interim and CEO of G/CLUBS?
A. It would depend on the task. Not frequently, just——as per
his request.
Q. What sort of tasks did Mr. He assign you?
A. Different tasks. It would vary from requesting to do
loan——loan agreements, or reaching out to potential partners,
supporting documents for banking.
Q. What do you mean by loan agreements?
A. A request would come to do a——a loan for some specifics,
and we would create the——the package of the different
documents.
Q. Who would the requests for a loan come from?
A. Depending. It could come from Mr. He, sometimes Yvette.
Q. Did you ever decide to make loans?
A. No, I did not.
Q. What entities, if any, did G/CLUBS send loans to?
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A. It would be G Club Operations to G Club International BVI.
Q. Did G/CLUBS make any loans to any people?
A. There was one that was to an individual, yes.
Q. What was the name of that individual that G/CLUBS sent a
loan to?
A. Mileson.
Q. Who is Mileson?
A. Mr. Guo's son.
Q. Approximately how many loans did Mr. He request that you
help facilitate?
A. Not exactly sure, but more than five.
Q. What was the total dollar amount of loans that Mr. He
requested you help facilitate?
A. I don't remember specifically.
Q. Approximately how much?
A. I would say in the millions.
Q. How many millions?
A. Maybe more than a hundred.
Q. More than a hundred million?
A. Yes.
Q. How did Mr. He treat you when you were an employee of
G/CLUBS?
A. It would depend, but there were——there were instances where
he would raise his voice. There were some times that I felt
not valued. He would say that "you Puerto Ricans are slow."
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Q. What did Mr. He complain that you were being slow about?
A. Different tasks, but it was a——it was slow.
Q. You mentioned that there was a loan made to Mileson from
G/CLUBS. What was your understanding, if any, about the nature
of the relationship between Mr. He and Mileson?
A. I knew they were college friends.
MR. FINKEL: Could we put up GX 102, please,
Ms. Loftus.
Q. Ms. Reyes, to your knowledge was Yvette on the payroll at
G/CLUBS?
A. No.
Q. Did she have an official title at G/CLUBS?
A. No.
Q. What did you refer to her as and other people refer to her
as at G/CLUBS?
MR. KAMARAJU: Objection to form.
THE COURT: So break it up, please.
MR. FINKEL: I apologize.
Q. What was Yvette referred to as at G/CLUBS?
A. Her——her name.
Q. Was she referred to by anything other than her name?
A. As a representative.
Q. Representative of what, or who?
A. Just representative, but I viewed as representative of
Mr. He.
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Q. What sort of things did Yvette work on for G/CLUBS?
A. She would provide instructions in different matters from
loans to finance, but just for——for events, at some point
reviewing PRF forms, different aspects, legal.
Q. You mentioned loans. Same sort of loans that you talked
about a moment ago with Mr. He?
A. Yes.
Q. In what ways did you communicate with Yvette?
A. It changed through time. Very early, it was email, then
WhatsApp, then Signal, and voice calls as well.
Q. How did Yvette treat you as an employee of G/CLUBS?
A. She treated me well. It was when things were not
necessarily——we had recommendations different that it could
become a little bit tense.
Q. What is an issue that became tense with Yvette?
A. I do recall there was a time that there had been a request
to transfer some funds and the recommendation was not to do so,
and it was tense in that way. There was a time where——
THE COURT: One moment. Whose recommendation was not
to do so and who made the request?
THE WITNESS: So legal recommendation was not to do
so.
THE COURT: When you say legal, do you mean an
attorney?
THE WITNESS: Counsel, yes.
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THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead. And who made the
request?
THE WITNESS: Yvette in this case.
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. And the attorney who recommended not to do the transfer,
that attorney was in-house counsel at G/CLUBS?
A. Yes.
Q. And when you relayed that recommendation to Yvette, what
was her response?
A. That we would have to do it and——not the exact words, but
like if we didn't do it, it was like——it was on me, like it was
my fault if something went wrong.
Q. How much money was that transfer?
A. To the best of my recollection, around 5 million.
Q. Where was that transfer to?
A. To a bank. I'm not sure which one.
Q. How did that make you feel when Yvette said that if you
don't do the transfer, it would be on you?
A. I felt that it was unfair.
Q. Why?
A. Because I was relaying the suggestion from——from counsel,
and I understood that to be——I'd rely on their advice.
Q. Did you ask Yvette any questions about why this transfer
would be on you if it didn't go through?
A. No, I don't recall that.
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Q. Did you ask Yvette any questions about why this transfer
should happen even though counsel said it shouldn't?
A. I do not recall.
Q. Did you ask any questions about whether we could wait,
G/CLUBS could wait to do the transfer another time?
A. No, I——I do recall that was the instruction.
Q. When you got instructions from Yvette, did you generally
ask her many questions?
A. No.
Q. When you got instructions from Mr. He, did you generally
ask him any questions?
A. No.
Q. The transfer you were just speaking about a moment ago with
Yvette, did you go through with it? Did you process it?
A. Ultimately, yes.
Q. Did Yvette express to you——well, withdrawn.
MR. FINKEL: We can take that down, Ms. Loftus. And
if we could display for the witness what's been marked for
identification as GX 101.
Q. Who's that?
A. Mr. Guo.
MR. FINKEL: Government offers 101.
MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit 101 received in evidence)
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Q. What was Miles Guo's title at G/CLUBS?
A. He was a spokesperson for G/CLUBS.
Q. And what did you understand that to mean, to be a
spokesperson?
A. To speak on behalf of the company.
Q. On behalf of who?
A. Of the company.
Q. Company being?
A. G/CLUBS.
Q. As far as you know, how much was Miles Guo paid for his
role as spokesperson of G/CLUBS?
A. He was not paid.
MR. FINKEL: May I approach, your Honor.
THE COURT: You may.
MR. FINKEL: Handing the witness a binder.
Q. And Ms. Reyes, if you could take a look at that binder and
flip through it.
MR. FINKEL: And your Honor, I'll represent that that
binder contains the following Government Exhibits, which have
been marked for identification: GX 1850, GX 1850A; and then
the following exhibits in the GX GC series: GX GC3, 27, 28,
33, 37, 38, 40, 43, 54, 59, 60, 93, 95; 121, 122, 197, 126,
136, 150A, 150, 157, 158, 160, 168, 175, 178, 184, 187, 189,
198; 209, 213, 218, 220, 221, 222, 227, 228, 233, 242, 254,
276, 286, 292, 293, 299; 300, 307, 309, 317, 318, 332, 334,
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340, 341, 346, 363, 365, 372, 376, 377, 379, 380, 382, 387,
389, 392, 393; 483, 484, 485, 486, 487, 422, 423, 424, 405,
406, 409, 415, 416, 418, 419, 422, 427, 428, 431, 432, 433,
436, 438, 441, 443, 444, 450, 452, 453, 454, 455, 467, 470,
476, 480, 484, 486, 487, 494, 495, 497; 504, 541, 517, 518,
520, 521, 522, 525, 526, 527, 528, 530-534, 536-538, 540, 544,
547, 549, 553, 553A, and 550.
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Ms. Reyes, would you flip through that binder.
A. Yes.
Q. Have you previously reviewed the contents of that binder?
A. Yes.
Q. Is there a signature on the front of the binder?
A. Yes.
Q. Whose signature is it?
A. Mine.
Q. At a high level, what are the kinds of documents in that
binder?
A. Emails, sent by me or received by me, loan documents.
Q. From what entity?
A. G/CLUBS.
MR. FINKEL: The government offers those exhibits that
I mentioned previously and hopefully don't have to read again,
unless you'd like me to.
(Counsel conferring)
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MR. KAMARAJU: No objection, and we don't require it
to be read again.
THE COURT: I didn't hear. You said no objection and?
MR. KAMARAJU: And we don't request that all the
exhibits be read again.
THE COURT: Okay. All right. So they're all
admitted.
MR. FINKEL: Thank you, your Honor.
(Government's Exhibits 1850, 1850A received in
evidence)
(Government's Exhibits GC3, GC27, GC28, GC33, GC37,
GC38, GC40, GC43, GC54, GC59, GC60, GC93, GC95 received in
evidence)
(Government's Exhibits GC121, GC122, GC197, GC126,
GC136, GC150A, GC150, GC157, GC158, GC160, GC168, GC175, GC178,
GC184, GC187, GC189, GC198 received in evidence)
(Government's Exhibits GC209, GC213, GC218, GC220,
GC221, GC222, GC227, GC228, GC233, GC242, GC254, GC276, GC286,
GC292, GC293, GC299 received in evidence)
(Government's Exhibits GC300, GC307, GC309, GC317,
GC318, GC332, GC334, GC340, GC341, GC346, GC363, GC365, GC372,
GC376, GC377, GC379, GC380, GC382, GC387, GC389, GC392, GC393
received in evidence)
(Government's Exhibits GC483, GC484, GC485, GC486,
GC487, GC422, GC423, GC424, GC405, GC406, GC409, GC415, GC416,
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GC418, GC419, GC422, GC427, GC428, GC431, GC432, GC433, GC436,
GC438, GC441, GC443, GC444, GC450, GC452, GC453, GC454, GC455,
GC467, GC470, GC476, GC480, GC484, GC486, GC487, GC494, GC495,
GC497 received in evidence)
(Government's Exhibits GC504, GC541, GC517, GC518,
GC520, GC521, GC522, GC525, GC526, GC527, GC528, GC530-534,
GC536-538, GC540, GC544, GC547, GC549, GC553, GC553A, and GC550
received in evidence)
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Did Mr. Guo have a contract with G/CLUBS?
A. Yes.
MR. FINKEL: Okay. If we can display what's in
evidence as Government Exhibit 541. GX GC541.
Q. What is this document, Ms. Reyes?
A. It's an agreement between G/CLUBS and Mr. Guo.
Q. Okay. And it says, "By and between Guo Wengui." Who do
you understand that to be?
A. Mr. Guo.
MR. FINKEL: You can zoom out of that, please.
Q. And do you see under (b) at the bottom, where it says
termination by the company for cause?
A. Yes.
MR. FINKEL: Zoom in on that, please, Ms. Loftus.
Q. Ms. Reyes, when you were the CEO of G/CLUBS, did you
believe that you could fire Guo as the spokesperson for
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G/CLUBS?
MR. KAMARAJU: Objection. Calls for a legal
conclusion.
THE COURT: Overruled. You can say whether you
believed you could fire him or not.
A. I didn't feel like I could fire him.
MR. FINKEL: You can zoom out of that. Go to the next
page, please.
And can you zoom in on paragraph 3, Ms. Loftus.
Q. So here it says Consideration - Level 5 Membership. What,
if anything, do you understand Guo was provided for his role as
spokesperson for G/CLUBS?
A. He was entitled to a membership.
Q. To your knowledge did he receive anything else aside from
the Level 5 membership?
A. Not that I was aware.
Q. Who negotiated this contract?
A. I wouldn't know.
Q. Who decided to make Guo the spokesperson?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you ask any questions about why Guo was the
spokesperson?
A. No. He was already there when I started.
Q. And when you started, did you ask any questions about why
Guo was the spokesperson?
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A. No.
Q. Did you ask any questions about this consulting agreement?
A. No.
MR. FINKEL: Ms. Loftus, can you zoom out of that and
go to page 7.
Okay. Take that down.
Q. At the time that you were at G/CLUBS, Ms. Reyes, in what
ways, if any, did G/CLUBS promote itself?
A. The spokesperson was Mr. Guo, and through word of mouth,
the——the farms, they would reach out to like-minded people.
Q. And how did Guo as the spokesperson promote G/CLUBS, to
your knowledge, at the time?
A. Through his videos.
Q. Did you watch his videos?
A. No.
Q. How many members did G/CLUBS have?
A. Depending. It would increase, but by the time that I
resigned, around 8,000.
Q. You mentioned that another way G/CLUBS was promoted was
word of mouth. Did you say through the farms?
A. Yes.
Q. What are the farms?
A. I don't know exactly how to describe it, but it's a group
of like-minded people that are located in different parts.
Q. Who explained the farms to you?
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A. It wasn't an explanation of what they were. It was just
that they——that they referenced the farms.
Q. Did you ask Yvette how the farms got involved in promotion
of G/CLUBS?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. Did you ask Mr. He how the farms got involved in the
promotion of G/CLUBS?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. How were the farms, to your knowledge, if you know,
involved in promoting G/CLUBS?
A. I do not know.
Q. Were you a member of a farm?
A. No.
Q. What is your understanding of where the 8,000 or so G/CLUBS
members were located?
A. They're located throughout the world.
Q. And what was your understanding of what language they
spoke?
MR. KAMARAJU: All of them?
MR. FINKEL: Yes.
Q. What was your understanding, generally speaking, of the
languages that the 8,000 G/CLUBS members spoke?
A. Most of them Mandarin.
Q. Do you believe, when you were the CEO of G/CLUBS, that you
were familiar with the like-minded ideology that you mentioned
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before of the G/CLUBS members?
A. If I was familiar?
Q. Yeah.
A. No.
Q. Of the 8,000 or so G/CLUBS members, approximately how many
have you spoken with?
A. Maybe around seven, roughly.
(Continued on next page)
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BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. You mention that Guo was the spokesperson for G/Club, was
there a disclaimer on G/Club's website about Guo?
A. Yes, there was.
Q. And what, at a high level, did that disclaimer say?
A. Not exactly sure of the exact words, but that G/Club is not
linked to the things that are said by Mr. Guo.
Q. Did that disclaimer change over time?
A. Yes.
Q. When did it change?
A. It changed after we received a subpoena.
Q. Who's the "we" received the subpoena, who is the "we?"
A. G/Clubs.
Q. And who was the subpoena received from?
A. The government.
Q. If Mr. Guo is the spokesperson of G/Club, why was there a
disclaimer on the website saying not to associate his
statements with G/Club?
A. I'm not sure. It was there. It was to my recollection
when I started.
Q. I'm going to ask you, Ms. Reyes, to speak loudly and
clearly so everyone can hear you.
Ms. Reyes, did you ask questions about the disclaimer
to Yvette?
A. Not that I recall.
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Q. Did you ask questions about the disclaimer to Mr. He?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. Did G/Club members receive a membership card?
A. Physical card, no.
Q. What would they receive, if anything, to signify their
membership in G/Club?
A. I recall there was an email that was sent with an image of
a card.
Q. You mentioned the prices for G/Clubs, there was an
initiation fee that ranged from 10,000 to 50,000; is that
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Why did you decide those prices?
A. I did not decide the prices.
Q. Who did?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you ask any questions to Yvette about why the prices
are what they are?
A. No, I did not.
Q. What about Mr. He?
A. No, I did not.
Q. You mentioned before that G/Clubs members didn't receive
stock, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. What benefits, if any, were G/Club members, were they
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entitled to?
A. They were entitled to different benefits throughout time.
Can I list them?
Q. You can list them, please.
A. They had discounts in G Fashion depending on their tier.
There was a time where they were able to upload two hours of
content to GTV. They had access to songs sung or written by
Mr. Guo. They had access to a 24-7 customer service. They had
access to the G talks events and sweepstakes.
Q. Anything else?
A. Yes. We had hotels, discounts in hotels, gyms. There was
a boarding charter. We had done a private tour of FAO Schwarz.
They receive Christmas gifts. We had a specialty dinner in a
Michelin star restaurant. We had two hotel stays, one in Fiji
and one in Australia. We had a discount at Formula One. Those
are the ones that I recall.
Q. How did the G Fashion discount work?
A. Depending on their tier, they would receive a set discount.
If it was tier one, it was 10 percent discount on their fashion
item.
Q. I ask you again to speak directly into the mic so everyone
can hear you.
If a member wanted to take advantage of the G Fashion
discount, how would they do that? What was the process?
A. It was done through the G Fashion platform.
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Q. Can you explain how?
A. I'm not exactly sure how.
THE COURT: You said that they had access to songs
that were sung or written by Mr. Guo, how would they get access
to that?
THE WITNESS: On the website. On the website there
was a link that said G music, and they were able to see them
there.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
Q. Who decided that G/Club members should get a F fashion
discount in connection with their membership?
A. I do not know.
Q. Did you ask anyone why that was a membership benefit?
A. No, I did not.
Q. You mentioned that members could have -- did you say a
stream on GTV; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Who decided that would be a benefit for members?
A. I do not know.
Q. Did you ask anyone why?
A. No.
Q. You mentioned that there was a Christmas gift, what was the
Christmas gift?
A. It was a box that included a branded coffee mug, Puerto
Rican coffee and cookies.
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Q. Was that shipped?
A. Yes.
Q. Was it shipped to every member?
A. The ones that had registered.
Q. You mention hotel discount; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Where were the hotels that G/Clubs members were entitled to
a discount for?
A. The hotels were in Puerto Rico.
Q. How many hotels in Puerto Rico were they entitled to a
discount for?
A. Three.
Q. And what was the discount that G/Clubs members were
entitled to at those three hotels in Puerto Rico?
A. If I'm not mistaken 10 percent discount.
Q. How would that work?
What was the process in which a G/Clubs member would
attain those 10 percent discount at those three hotels in
Puerto Rico?
A. They would receive a link or a code, depending, and they
would be able to book their stay.
Q. Would it be booked through G/Clubs?
A. No.
Q. Who would it be booked through?
A. The member.
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Q. The member would book it where?
A. Through the website of the hotel.
Q. How much did it cost G/Club to obtain that benefits from
those three hotels for its members?
A. It did not cost us.
Q. How many members took advantage of the 10 percent discount
at the three hotels in Puerto Rico?
A. I do not know.
Q. You mention that there was a dinner at a Michelin star
restaurant; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you describe to the members of the jury, Ms. Reyes, the
nature of that benefit?
A. It was a dinner at a Michelin restaurant. I don't remember
the name in the UK. It was on Chinese New Year.
Q. And was it just one night dinner or multiple dinners?
A. Just that one night dinner.
Q. Was the dinner free for G/Club members?
A. No, they had to pay. It was a discount.
Q. How much was the discount?
A. I don't recall.
Q. How many members took advantage of that benefit?
A. I do not know.
Q. How much did the dinner cost?
A. I don't recall.
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Q. You mentioned, did you say a charter?
A. There was a boat charter.
Q. What do you mean by boat charter?
A. It was a boat service that they could book a boating trip.
Q. And where was that boat service located?
A. In Puerto Rico.
Q. What was the nature of the benefit or discount that G/Clubs
members could obtain?
A. If I'm not mistaken, it was a percent, a discount, and I
believe it included something like champagne. I don't remember
exactly the percentage.
Q. How much did it cost G/Club to obtain that benefit for its
members?
A. It didn't cost us.
Q. How many G/Club members took advantage of that benefit?
A. I do not know.
Q. Did any G/Club members live in Puerto Rico to your
knowledge?
A. Not that I was aware of.
Q. Did you mention something about Fiji and Australia?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you describe that, the nature of that benefit to the
members of the jury?
A. They were a block of dates for a hotel stay, one in Fiji
and one in Australia, and they would get a discount and some
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other benefits as well.
Q. What do you mean by block of dates?
A. It was a set number of dates. It was a set date that they
would be able to book.
Q. And how many dates were available for the G/Club discount
at the hotel in Fiji and Australia?
A. I don't recall specifically.
Q. Approximately how many, months, weeks?
A. Maybe a couple of weeks.
Q. And how much money did it cost G/Club to obtain that
benefit for its members?
A. It did not cost us.
Q. And how many G/Club members, if any, to your knowledge took
advantage of that benefit, the blocks?
A. I do not know.
Q. You mention Formula One race?
A. Yes.
Q. What was the nature of that benefit?
A. It was a discount that the members were able to select
where they would like to view the race at the Monaco race and
then throughout the year.
Q. And how many events were there associated with that
benefit?
A. Sorry. What do you mean?
Q. Was it one race or more than one race?
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A. The first one was Monaco, and then it was extended
throughout the whole year.
Q. How many races, do you know?
A. I do not know.
Q. How many G/Club members to your knowledge took advantage of
that the Formula One race?
A. I do not know.
Q. I believe you mentioned, did you mention FAO Schwarz?
A. Yes.
Q. What was the nature of that benefit?
A. We had close off the toy store FAO Schwarz for our members.
They would be able to tour the toy store. We had breakfast for
them. They had discount on their merchandise and that was two
days.
Q. How long was -- FAO Schwarz located where?
A. New York.
Q. Where in New York?
A. I'm not exactly sure the address.
Q. Manhattan?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you present for that event?
A. Yes.
Q. How long was FAO Schwarz closed for?
A. Like a couple of hours, like an hour.
Q. How much did it cost for G/Clubs to obtain that benefit for
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its members?
A. Around, the booking of the space was around $13,000.
Q. How many G/Club members attended the FAO Schwarz event that
you were present at?
A. Maybe four or five.
Q. Were there any other events scheduled in New York around
the FAO Schwarz event?
A. The original idea for the FAO Schwarz was to have a tour of
the toy store and later on have a gingerbread activity for the
kids. That didn't happen.
Q. Who canceled the gingerbread activity for the kids?
A. Yvette requested to cancel it.
Q. Those benefits that we went through, were those available
to every membership tier?
A. Yes, except G Fashion, that was pertaining to their tier.
Q. Every other benefit, every tier got whether they were
50,000 tier or 10,000 tier?
A. Yes.
Q. Is there a G/Club news letter?
A. We promoted the different benefits through their emails.
Q. What is Orbit?
A. Orbit is the customer service company that we used for our
members.
Q. And what did Orbit do?
A. They would receive members' questions through them and then
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they would, depending on the question or the concern, they
would assign them to different departments.
Q. Where was Orbit located?
A. The agents were located in different parts of the world.
Q. Did Orbit book travel for members?
A. No, they did not.
Q. Did Orbit book hotel stays for members?
A. No, they did not.
Q. Did Orbit rent cars for members?
A. No.
Q. Was Orbit a concierge service?
A. No.
Q. Did G/Clubs offer its members concierge services?
A. Yes.
Q. What sort of concierge services did G/Clubs offer its
members?
A. We didn't. It was named concierge service.
Q. Did G/Clubs have available to its members luxury sports
cars to use?
A. No.
Q. Did G/Clubs have available to its members homes to stay in?
A. No.
Q. To your knowledge did G/Club ever purchase a mansion?
A. Not that I was aware of.
Q. Have you ever been to 675 Ramapo Boulevard?
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A. I'm sorry.
Q. Have you ever been to 675 Ramapo Boulevard?
A. I don't know where that is.
Q. Do you know what the Crocker mansion is?
A. The what? sorry.
Q. The Crocker mansion?
A. No.
Q. Are you aware of G/Clubs ever purchasing property in New
Jersey?
A. Not that I was aware.
Q. Are you aware of G/Clubs purchasing property anywhere in
the United States?
A. Not that I was aware.
Q. Are you aware of G/Clubs purchasing property anywhere on
the planet?
A. Not that I was aware of.
Q. Can we please display what's in evidence as Government
Exhibit 134.
Ms. Reyes, can you see that on your screen?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know where this is?
A. No, I do not.
Q. Is this a property that G/Clubs owns to your knowledge?
A. Not that I'm aware of.
Q. We can take that down.
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Ms. Reyes, did there come a time, if ever, where you
proposed that G/Club should offer a clubhouse to its members?
A. Yes.
Q. Who did you propose that to?
A. We spoke collectively with the team in Puerto Rico that it
would make sense at some point to have a club for our members.
Q. And did you propose that idea to anybody?
A. There was a time where there was like a little Island that
was on sale and I did propose that to Yvette, yes.
Q. And where was that Island located?
A. In Puerto Rico.
Q. And how much did that Island cost approximately?
A. I'm not exactly sure, but it was in the millions, maybe
more than five. I don't know exactly.
Q. Was it more or less than 12 million?
A. I'm not exactly sure. I would think more than five.
Q. What did Yvette say, if anything, when you proposed
purchasing this Island for members?
A. At the end, it wasn't -- like it didn't make sense to
purchase an Island due to the value of it.
Q. Who decided how much money to spend on purchases that
G/Clubs made?
A. What purchases specifically?
Q. Were you able to spend money, G/Clubs money on things?
A. Some things.
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Q. What are the things you were able to spend G/Club money on?
A. Like if we had a lunch for an event with the employees, I
would spend that, office supplies; for example, FAO Schwarz
event.
Q. Ms. Reyes, who were multiple memberships?
A. Multiple membership is where members are able to purchase
more than one membership.
Q. Whose idea was it to permit members to purchase more than
one membership?
A. The request came from Yvette.
Q. Can we please display what's in evidence as Government
Exhibit GC-126. Zoom in at the top, please, Ms. Loftus.
What is this document about Ms. Reyes?
A. It's an email from Yvette to Jessica, myself regarding
reviewing the membership agreement to allow for multi-members.
Q. Can you read the bottom email. It says, it's from Jessica
Mastrogiovanni starting with please revise?
A. Please revise the membership agreement ASAP to allow
members to buy more than one membership. Need to be unlimited.
Q. And what was Yvette's response to this email?
A. Jessica, please come to me about this.
Q. What email address did Yvette use in this email?
A. Officework 2020.
Q. Did Yvette have a G/Clubs domain email like you did?
A. Not that I was aware of.
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Q. The benefits that we discussed previously, did multiple --
withdrawn.
How many memberships could a member purchase if they
wanted to?
A. Multiples, I recall seeing at least ten.
Q. One person buying ten memberships?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there any limit to the number of members that an
individual could purchase?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. Did you ask Yvette why G/Clubs should implement a multiple
membership option?
A. No.
Q. Did you ask Mr. He why G/Clubs should implement a multiple
membership option?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. What additional benefits, if any, did multiple memberships
get?
A. They would get access more than once at the sweepstakes,
participate in sweepstakes, and it was promoted that they would
have access to VIP events and a concierge service.
Q. You said it was promoted that multiple members would have
access to VIP events, were there any VIP events?
A. We did not host it.
Q. Was there any concierge service for multiple members?
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A. Not at the time.
Q. At any other time that you were at G/Clubs?
A. No.
Q. Were members provided a membership agreement?
A. Upon registration, they had to upon registration. Online
they would see their membership agreement.
Q. Were they required to acknowledge it?
A. To the best of my understanding, they had to check, click
on a box.
Q. If we can bring up what's in evidence, please, Ms. Loftus,
as Government Exhibit GC-28. And who's this email from at the
top?
A. It's an email from Ana to Jessica and myself.
Q. And what is the attachment called that's attached to this
email?
A. G/Club membership agreement, red line multiple membership.
Q. Zoom out of that, please, Ms. Loftus.
And this is a response to the email you mentioned
before, that we talked about before. Can you zoom in on the
bottom email, please.
On this email the CC line it says officework
2020@protonmail.com Do you see that, Ms. Reyes?
A. Yes.
Q. Whose email is that?
A. Yvette's.
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Q. Did you ask Yvette why she used that email address for
G/Club's business, Officework2020@proton mail.com?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we can go to the next page.
Is this the membership agreement that Ana Izquierdo
adjusted?
A. Can you scroll it a bit. Yes.
Q. If can you go, Ms. Loftus, to page four paragraph 12B. Go
down a little bit, please. Can you zoom in on that.
Ms. Reyes, can you read the underlined text beginning
with Member may?
A. Member may purchase more than one membership with G/Clubs
for themself and will be assigned a membership number per
membership. However, members with multiple memberships will
only be able to use one membership for special pricings from
G/Club affiliates and will not be able to combine said
memberships.
Q. Did Ana Izquierdo also report to you that?
A. She would receive instruction from Yvette, yes.
Q. You can zoom out of that, Ms. Loftus.
And if you could go to paragraph 16. Zoom in on
paragraph 16, please. Can you read that paragraph, please?
A. Non-disparagement. The member and each immediate family
member beneficiary hereby agrees not to disparage G/Clubs, its
parent or affiliate companies, nor any of their respective
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owners, partners, officers, directors, employees agents or
other representatives, key host or spokespeople including for
avoidance of doubt Mr. Guo Wengui. For purposes of this
agreement, disparage shall mean make any statements to a third
party that are unlawful, false, misleading, defamatory,
harassing or abusive regarding one or more of the foregoing.
Nothing herein shall prohibit or restrict a member or
immediate family member beneficiaries ability to publish an
honest review or performance assessment of G/Clubs or any goods
or services it provides.
Q. What was your understanding, if any, why the G/Clubs
membership agreement as it text says, prohibited disparaging
statements about Guo?
A. I do not have an understanding.
Q. Did you ask anyone why this paragraph was included in the
membership agreement?
A. No, I did not.
Q. You can take that down. Can I have one moment.
What was G/Clubs' policy, if any, about refund
request?
A. The policy changed through time. Originally it was
cancellation three days after the membership and later on it
was extended to 12 or 14 days. I'm not exactly sure.
Q. What do you mean it was a three-day policy initially?
A. That after a member got their membership, they had three
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days to request cancellation.
Q. And then it was extended to 14 days, is that what you said
or 12?
A. Twelve or 14 days.
Q. Why was it extended to 12 or 14 days?
A. I was told that it was due to something along the lines of
a European law that required that time.
Q. And when you started at G/Clubs, was the refund policy
strict?
A. Yes.
Q. Were a lot of refunds given out?
A. No.
Q. Did that change where the refund changed, when the refund
policy became less strict?
A. Yes.
Q. What changed for the refund policy to become less strict?
A. After G/Clubs receive a subpoena, the refunds changed.
Q. Subpoena from who?
A. The government.
Q. Ms. Reyes, one of the benefits I think you mentioned was --
let me take a step back.
What is G talk?
A. G talks, it was originally intended to be an in-person
event. Due to Covid, we had to shut to virtual, so it was a
virtual event where we would have different topics. We had a
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sweepstakes for our members.
Q. And what happened? How many G talks were there while you
were at G/Club?
A. We hosted two.
Q. And when were they?
A. The first one was in February 2021. The second one was in
March 2022.
Q. And can you just describe what happened at G Talks?
A. Depended. The first one was, we talked about G/Clubs. We
presented the G Fashion collection, and we had the sweepstakes
of the G Fashion prices. There were vehicle prizes as well and
cash value. The second one was more towards Community Through
Love, so we had different videos of different locations and we
had the sweepstakes as well.
Q. Where did the G Talks event occur?
A. The first one it was virtual, so the different speakers
were in different locations. The second one, the main
broadcast was in New York, New York office.
Q. Who could watch or how could someone watch the G Talks
event?
A. It was a link to the best of my understanding that was
provided.
Q. So it was online?
A. Yes.
Q. Were only members permitted to watch G Talk?
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A. The first G Talk was members only. The second G talk was
open to the general public.
Q. What was Miles Guo's role, if any, at G Talk events?
A. He spoke at the G Talks.
Q. We can take a look at what's in evidence as GXCT-171.
Ms. Reyes, what is this document?
A. It looks like the agenda for one of the G Talks.
Q. If we can look at GXCT-170. What is this?
A. Continuation of the agenda for the G Talk.
Q. And is that you, by host?
A. Yes.
Q. What did you say in your welcoming remarks?
A. I don't recall exactly.
Q. If we can look at GXCT-172. Can you zoom in at the top
please, Ms. Loftus.
Can you read what it says at the top?
A. List of do not words/ideas.
Q. What is this document?
A. It was a document of do not say words that was provided to
Mr. Guo.
Q. Why was a document of do not say words provided to Guo?
A. I do not know.
Q. What was the purpose of this document?
A. To be a list of do not say words.
Q. Do you know if Guo said these words or not?
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A. I do not know.
Q. Why not?
A. I do not know Mandarin.
Q. Can you scroll down, please, Ms. Loftus. Stop right there.
Do you see where it says growth and growth projections
at the top?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know why growth and growth projections were words
that Guo should not say?
MR. KAMARAJU: Objection to the form, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
A. I do not know.
Q. Participation, participate, business or profits. Do you
know why those were words Guo was not supposed to say?
A. I do not know.
Q. GTV. You know why that was a word Guo was not supposed to
say?
A. I do not know.
Q. What about Saraca, do you know why that was a word Guo was
not supposed to say?
A. I do not know.
Q. Do you know what Saraca is?
A. No.
Q. What about voice of Guo, Voice of Good. Do you know what
that is?
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A. No.
Q. Rule of Law Foundation, Rule of Law Society. Do you know
why Guo was not supposed to say those words?
A. I do not know.
Q. Was this list for G Talk one or G Talk two?
A. To the best of my recollection G Talk One.
Q. What was the date of G Talk One approximately?
A. February 2021.
Q. And then a couple of rows down it says Yvette Wang, Yvette.
Do you know why Guo was not supposed to mention Yvette?
A. I do not know.
Q. Can we scroll down, Ms. Loftus. And it says Sara, below
Sara it says Mulan. Do you know why Guo was not supposed to
mention Mulan?
A. I do not know.
Q. Do you know who Mulan is?
A. I've seen an image of the Disney character of Mulan if you
will. I do not know.
Q. What was your understanding of what Mulan did in relation
to G/Club?
MR. KAMARAJU: Object to the foundation, your Honor.
THE COURT: Did she do anything in relation to the
G/Clubs.
Q. I'll withdraw it. What was your understanding of who Mulan
was?
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A. I do not know who she was.
Q. Did Mulan do anything in relation to G/Club?
MR. KAMARAJU: Same objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: You may answer.
A. She participated in the committee for the G Talks, that's
where I saw the image.
Q. Do you know what the iron blooded group is?
A. I'm sorry.
Q. The iron blooded group, do you know what that is?
A. No.
Q. Below Mulan, Ms. Reyes, it says SEC, investigation and
litigations, do you know why Guo was not supposed to say those
words?
A. I do not know.
Q. What about Golden Spring, do you know why Guo was not
supposed to say Golden Spring?
A. I do not know.
Q. Do you know what Golden Spring is?
A. I do not know.
Q. Below Golden Spring, regulators, DOJ, Attorney General,
prosecutors, U.S. government. Do you know why Guo was not
supposed to say anything about those words?
A. I do not know.
Q. Scroll down. And below U.S. government it says G Coin, G
Dollar, H Coin, H Dollar. Do you know why Guo was not suppose
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct
to say anything about G Coin, G Dollar, H Coin and H Dollar?
A. I do not know.
Q. Do you know what G Coin and G dollar are?
A. No.
Q. Do you know what H Coin and H Dollar are?
A. Yes.
Q. What do you understand those things to be, H Coin and
H Dollar?
A. Those are methods of payments amongst -- H Dollar is, my
understanding, like a one-on-one, and H Coin is, it fluctuates.
Q. You can take that down. If we could please display for the
witness GC-511.
What is this a picture of?
A. Mr. Guo and myself.
MR. FINKEL: Government offers GC-511.
MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit GC-511 received in evidence)
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Where was this photograph taken?
A. In the New York office.
Q. Where was this New York office located?
A. I don't know exactly the address. If I look at a map,
Manhattan is in the front, so it's in the left side. If
Central Park is in the center, it's in the left.
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O6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct
Q. To the left side of Central Park?
A. Yes.
Q. Ms. Reyes, why was this photograph taken? I'm going to ask
you to point the mic toward you.
A. Can you repeat the question.
Q. What was the occasion for this photograph?
A. This was taken during the second G Talks event.
Q. And who selected your outfit?
A. Mr. Guo.
Q. And what brand made that outfit that you're wearing?
A. G Fashion.
Q. Did you keep that G Fashion outfit after the G Talks event?
A. It was offered, but I did not keep it ultimately.
Q. Why did you not keep it ultimately?
A. Because we're asked to pay for it.
Q. Who was asked to pay for it?
A. G/Clubs.
Q. How much was G/Clubs charge for the outfit that you wore
during the G Talk event?
A. I do not recall the exact amount of the dress.
Q. Approximately how much?
A. If I was to guess, maybe around a thousand.
MR. KAMARAJU: Object to the guessing, your Honor.
THE COURT: Don't guess. If you don't know, just say
you don't know.
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O6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct
Q. You can take that down. Ms. Reyes, you mentioned something
about a sweepstakes in connection with the G Talk. Can you
explain your understanding of that sweepstakes?
A. The sweepstakes were, we had different prizes and members
that register for the event were selected to be the lucky
winners of the different prizes.
Q. What were the kinds of prizes that the members could win if
they were selected?
A. We had vehicles, G Fashion items, different G Fashion items
and cash values.
Q. Do you know how the winners were selected, exactly how it
worked?
A. There was a sweepstake company and they were the ones that
selected the different winners.
Q. If we can please display what I believe is in evidence as
GX-121. Do you know who this individual is?
A. Mr. Yong .
Q. Did Mr. Yong ever win the sweepstakes?
A. Yes.
Q. What did he win?
A. A Lamborghini.
Q. Did you ever meet him, Mr. Yong?
A. In person?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct
Q. If we can please display what's in evidence as Government
Exhibit GXGC-547. Zoom in on that one, please, Ms. Loftus.
Can you read that message?
A. These three members would like to visit your office.
Ideally take off tomorrow from New York City, fly back on
Sunday. Let me know when you can talk about this. Thank you.
Q. Who was that message sent to?
A. It was sent to -- I don't see, but I recall the message
sent to me.
Q. Sent to you?
A. Yes.
Q. From whom?
A. From Yvette.
Q. And what is your understanding of what Yvette meant, these
three members would like to visit your office?
A. There was a time where three members came to our Puerto
Rican office to see the office.
Q. What were their names?
A. Alex Chi, Mr. Yong and Sharon or Shannon.
Q. Mr. Young, the image of the individual we just saw with the
air pods?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you zoom out of that, Ms. Loftus, and scroll down. Can
you zoom in on the second line. Can you read that?
A. Mr. Yong Zhang.
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O6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct
Q. Who do you understand that to be?
A. Mr. Yong.
Q. The air pods picture?
A. Yes.
Q. Did Mr. Yong come to the Puerto Rico office?
A. Yes.
Q. Was it around this time in the summer of 2022?
A. To the best of my recollection, yes.
Q. What was your understanding of why Mr. Yong visited the
Puerto Rico office?
A. They were there to visit the Puerto Rico office, meet the
team, get to know the different departments and talk about
G/Clubs.
Q. How much time did you spend with Mr. Yong in Puerto Rico?
A. I don't recall specifically.
Q. Did Yvette ask you to take him out to dinner as well
Mr. Yong?
A. I don't remember her specifically telling me to take them
out to dinner, but to be hospitable and host them, so we did.
Q. What did you talk about with Mr. Yong?
A. I don't remember specifically.
Q. Did you talk about taking down the Chinese Communist Party?
A. No.
Q. Did you talk about the democratic movement against the
Chinese Communist Party?
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O6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct
A. No.
Q. What was your understanding of what, if anything, Mr. Yong
did?
A. I understood he was a lawyer, an attorney.
Q. Take that down, please.
Aside from the Lamborghini that Mr. Yong won, were
there other members who won cars?
A. There were other members that won cars, but to the best of
my recollection they ultimately decided for the cash value.
Q. What do you mean they ultimately decided for the cash
value?
A. Instead of having the physical car, they decided on the
value of the car.
Q. And to your knowledge were payments made to some of those
members?
A. To the best of my knowledge, yes.
Q. Did all of those members who selected cash value accept a
wire transfer?
A. No, there were different payment methods. There's wires.
There came a time I believe there was checks and there's -- in
form of credit to their membership.
Q. What do you mean by a form of credit?
A. The value of the price would be credited to their annual
fee or any membership depending on what they selected.
Q. Did some of the winners choose that option, the credit for
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct
G/Club membership?
A. I do recall, yes, one.
Q. Are you familiar with an email address Notices@G mail.com?
A. Yes.
Q. Who used that email address?
A. The legal department.
Q. For what purpose?
A. Legal matters, cancellations, member complaints.
Q. What do you mean by cancellations?
A. When members requested for cancellation, it would be
assigned to the legal for review.
Q. If we can pull up what I think is in evidence as GXW-17.
Can you see that on your screen, Ms. Reyes?
A. Yes.
Q. What is this?
A. It's the G/Clubs website.
Q. Can you scroll down, please, Ms. Loftus, scroll down a
little bit more.
On the right below Experiences that Enrich, can you
read the text below that, please?
A. Our concierge staff crafts individually curated experiences
that give you exclusive access to the world's most remarkable
destinations, products and services.
MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, in the abundance of caution,
the government offers GXW-17. I believe it's in, but if not the
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct
government offers.
MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.
THE COURT: It is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit GXW-17 received in evidence)
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Ms. Reyes, did G/Clubs have concierge staff that crafted
individually curated experiences for its members?
A. No, we did not.
Q. Was written on the G/Clubs website true?
A. No, we did not offer.
MR. FINKEL: Government also offers GXW-16 and GXW-19.
MR. KAMARAJU: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: They're admitted.
(Government's Exhibits GXW-16 and GXW-19 received in
evidence)
BY MR. FINKEL:
Q. Ms. Loftus, if we can pull up GXW-16. What is this?
A. The G/Club website.
Q. Can you scroll down a little bit. By the way, who selected
these images?
A. The marketing agency and our marketing team.
Q. So here it says, Where Will your Curiosity Take you. Can
you read what it says below that?
A. G/Clubs members are empowered to curate their own one of a
kind experiences, be it a hot air balloon ride over the
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3036
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct
vineyards of northern Spain, a romantic dinner on the shores of
the Seine river, or a private guided safari. The only limit is
your imagination.
Q. Ms. Reyes, did the G/Clubs offer its members a hot air
balloon ride?
A. Not at the time, no.
Q. Did it offer its members a romantic dinner on the shores of
the Seine river?
A. Not at the time, no.
Q. Or a private guided safari?
A. Not at the time, no.
Q. Is this information about what G/Clubs offered its members
true?
A. We did not offer it at the time, no.
Q. Let's scroll down, please. Keep going please.
Below next to the helicopter, it says Be Inquisitive
Live inspired. Did I read that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you read the text below that?
A. You have the support of a complete team of professionals
that not only crafts unique experience for your pleasure, but
also works with you to fulfill those items that are on your
bucket list.
Q. Was there a complete team of professionals that crafted
unique experiences for G/Club members?
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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O6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct
A. Not at the time.
Q. At any time while you were at G/Clubs was there?
A. We were working on it, but it wasn't in place.
Q. Is there a time that Guo was on the website?
A. Yes.
Q. Did there come a time when he was removed from the website?
A. Yes.
Q. Who asked that he be removed from the website?
A. Mr. He.
Q. Did Mr. He explain why he wanted Guo to be removed from the
website?
A. To the best of my recollection, it was because creating
difficulties with his banking relationships.
MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, I see it's 4:56. If your
Honor would like, this is a good time to break, but it's up to
the Court of course.
THE COURT: That's fine. Members of the jury, we will
finish now, and you will return tomorrow ready to come into the
courtroom at 9:30. Remember that you're not allowed to discuss
this case amongst yourselves or with anyone else. Don't permit
anyone to discuss it in your presence. Don't read, watch or
listen to anything from any source that touches on any matter
related to this case. Have a good evening and you may step
out. Don't discuss your testimony.
THE LAW CLERK: Jury exiting.
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
O6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: Please be seated. Is there anything
before we stop for the day?
MR. KAMARAJU: Not from the defense.
MR. FINKEL: Nor the government. Have a nice evening.
THE COURT: Same to you.
(Adjourned to June 18, 2024 at 9:00 a.m.)
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(212) 805-0300
INDEX OF EXAMINATION
Examination of: Page
JAMES ROBERT COLLINS JR.
2775Direct By Mr. Finkel . . . . . . . . . . . . .
2815Cross By Mr. Kamaraju . . . . . . . . . . . .
2892Redirect By Mr. Finkel . . . . . . . . . . . .
CHRISTINE FROSINI
2897Direct By Ms. Murray . . . . . . . . . . . . .
2952Cross By Ms. Shroff . . . . . . . . . . . . .
2969Redirect By Ms. Murray . . . . . . . . . . . .
2970Recross By Ms. Shroff . . . . . . . . . . . .
2971Redirect By Ms. Murray . . . . . . . . . . . .
2972Recross By Ms. Shroff . . . . . . . . . . . .
LIMARIE REYES
2973Direct By Mr. Finkel . . . . . . . . . . . . .
GOVERNMENT EXHIBITS
Exhibit No. Received
2802 MER-5 and MER-6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
2900 145 and 146 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
2998 1850, 1850A . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
2998 GC3, GC27, GC28, GC33, GC37, GC38, . . . . .
GC40, GC43, GC54, GC59, GC60,
GC93, GC95
2998 GC121, GC122, GC197, GC126, GC136, . . . . .
GC150A, GC150, GC157, GC158,
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
GC160, GC168, GC175, GC178,
GC184, GC187, GC189, GC198
2998 GC209, GC213, GC218, GC220, GC221, . . . . .
GC222, GC227, GC228, GC233,
GC242, GC254, GC276, GC286,
GC292, GC293, GC299
2998 GC300, GC307, GC309, GC317, GC318, . . . . .
GC332, GC334, GC340, GC341,
GC346, GC363, GC365, GC372,
GC376, GC377, GC379, GC380,
GC382, GC387, GC389, GC392,
GC393
2998 GC483, GC484, GC485, GC486, GC487, . . . . .
GC422, GC423, GC424, GC405,
GC406, GC409, GC415, GC416,
GC418, GC419, GC422, GC427,
GC428, GC431, GC432, GC433,
GC436, GC438, GC441, GC443,
GC444, GC450, GC452, GC453,
GC454, GC455, GC467, GC470,
GC476, GC480, GC484, GC486,
GC487, GC494, GC495, GC497
2999 GC504, GC541, GC517, GC518, GC520, . . . . .
GC521, GC522, GC525, GC526,
GC527, GC528, GC530-534,
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
GC536-538, GC540, GC544,
GC547, GC549, GC553, GC553A,
and GC550
3035 GXW-16 and GXW-19 . . . . . . . . . . . . .
MER-8 2808 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
GXW-17 3035 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
101 2995 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
112 2989 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
113 2776 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
134 2899 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
MER138 2792 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
GC-511 3028 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
1100 2903 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
1101 2918 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
1102 2930 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
MER1203 2784 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
MER1204 2786 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
MER1205 2798 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
MER-1206 2810 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
DEFENDANT EXHIBITS
Exhibit No. Received
60554 2821 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
60556 2873 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Translated Text(简体中文翻译)
【中文翻译 仅供参考】
O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 1 / 230页
美国纽约南区法院
-------------------------------------------------------x
美国政府
控方 23 Cr. 118 (AT)
郭文贵
辩方
-------------------------------------------------------x
纽约州纽约市，
2024 年 6 月 17 日
上午 9:30
庭前:
尊敬的阿娜丽莎-托雷斯法官大人
地区法官
-陪审团-
出庭律师:
达米安-威廉姆斯
纽约南区美国联邦检察官
代表：迈卡·F·费根森
瑞安·B·芬克
贾斯廷·霍顿
朱莉安娜·N·莫里
助理美国检察官
萨布丽娜·P·施洛夫
被告律师
PRYOR CASHMAN LLP
被告律师
代表：西德哈达·卡马拉珠
马修·巴尔坎
ALSTON & BIRD LLP
被告律师
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 2 / 230页 代表：E·斯科特·舒里克 出席人员： 伊莎贝尔·洛夫特斯，法律助理，美国检察官办公室 鲁本·蒙蒂利亚，辩方律师助理 黄拓，普通话翻译 石峰，普通话翻译 唐玉马克，普通话翻译
【中文翻译 仅供参考】
O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 3 / 230页
（庭审继续；陪审团不在场）
法官说：早上好。请报到。
芬克律师说：早上好，法官大人，我们是瑞安·芬克和朱利安娜·莫里，代表政府。我们
与伊莎贝尔·洛夫特斯和探员罗伯特·斯托特在一起。
卡马拉珠律师说：早上好，法官大人，我是西德哈达·卡马拉珠，萨布丽娜·施洛夫，马
修·巴尔坎和克莱尔·蒂尔顿，我们代表郭先生，郭先生和我们坐在律师席上。
法官说：请把陪审员带进来。
（陪审员在场）
法官说：请坐下。
早上好，陪审员们，欢迎回来。
陪审员们说：早上好。
法官说：我们现在将继续对柯林斯先生的直接审问。您可以询问。
芬克律师说：谢谢，法官大人。詹姆斯·罗伯特·柯林斯二世，继续。
直接审问
由检方律师芬克先生进行：
问：早上好，先生。
答：早上好。
问：我提醒你，你仍在宣誓之下，好吗？
答：好的。
芬克律师说：请向证人显示标记为辨认的政府证物 113号。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 4 / 230页 问：柯林斯先生，政府证物 113号中描绘的是谁？ 答：我不记得他的名字，但他被认为是喜马拉雅交易所的主席。 芬克律师说：请显示作为证据的政府证物 BR208A。 可以向下滚动吗，洛夫特斯女士。可以放大底部吗？ 问：柯林斯先生，请看一下这个，让我知道它是否刷新了您的记忆。 答：它确实如此。 芬克律师说：请洛夫特斯女士，回到政府证物 113号。 问：政府证物 113号中的这个人是谁？ 答：Jesse Brown 芬克律师说：政府提供 113号。 卡马拉珠律师说：无异议。 法官说：准予。 （政府的证物 113号接受为证据） 芬克律师说：可以发布吗？ 问：柯林斯先生，你说这个人，Jesse Brown，被认为是喜马拉雅交易所的主席。你能向陪审团 解释一下你的意思吗。 答：他表示那是他的头衔。喜马拉雅交易所的其他团队成员也这样称呼他。 问：谁？ 答：Jesse Brown。 问：余建明，对 Jesse Brown在喜马拉雅交易所的角色有何评论，如果有的话？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 5 / 230页 答：除了——除了讨论他的头衔，我们没有太多关于 Jesse的讨论。 问：据您所知，Jesse Brown在哪里？ 答：英属维尔京群岛，BVI。 问：您是否了解 Brown先生为什么会在英属维尔京群岛？ 答：我相信他们在 BVI的拍照许可类型是需要由一名官员，即使不是主官员，也得是那里的。 问：您个人与 Brown先生就喜马拉雅交易所进行了多少次交流？ 答：是在一组中还是只有一对一？ 问：任何一种。 答：所有加起来，大概三到四次。 问：您主要与谁��喜马拉雅交易所进行交流吗？ 答：余建明，Georgette Adonis-Roberts和 Priya Patel。 法官说：芬克先生，请您靠近一下麦克风。 芬克律师说：好的，法官大人。 问：柯林斯先生，您对谁在运营喜马拉雅交易所，有何了解？ 答：我清楚地知道余建明在运营这个业务。 问：为什么您会清楚余建明在运营喜马拉雅交易所？ 答：大家几乎在最终的任何关于喜马拉雅交易所的决策上都会听从他的意见。 芬克律师说：请显示政府证物 103号。 问：柯林斯先生，您曾经有没有一次，见到了余先生？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 6 / 230页 答：有。 问：你们在哪里见面的？ 答：我在他们位于伦敦郊外的办公室见到他。 问：伦敦郊外的哪个办公室？ 答：喜马拉雅交易所的办公室。 问：那是大约什么时候？ 答：大约是 21 年的秋天。 问：请向陪审团描述一下您当时与余先生在伦敦办公室关于喜马拉雅交易所的谈话性质。 答：他很兴奋地跟我们说他们的产品；他们正处于推出喜马拉雅币和喜马拉雅美元的中期，这两 者都在交易所上市。他非常积极地利用市场对数字资产的兴趣，还有他们认为这个平台会是下一 个大事件。 问：您说他有兴趣利用数字资产市场，当时说这个是什么意思呢？ 答：当时普遍的，全球公众对投资数字资产有很大兴趣。 问：您说到“数字资产”，基于您 2021 年秋的理解，您能给出一些例子吗？ 答：嗯，最大的数字资产也许是最著名的比特币。市场通常被称为加密市场。以太坊是另一种 币。我认为目前有 20,000种不同的币在市场上。 问：在您与余先生在伦敦会面的时候，您听说过喜马拉雅币吗？ 答：没有。 问：您听说过喜马拉雅美元吗？ 答：没有。 问：据您所知，当时喜马拉雅币或喜马拉雅美元是否在其他任何加密货币交易所上市？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 7 / 230页 答：据我所知没有。 问：那时您是否与余先生进行过任何关于郭文贵的谈话？ 答：我相信我提到了我们已经通知他们的员工，我们对郭文贵的资料表示担忧，我请他确认郭文 贵的资金没有涉及到我们即将开设的账户，以及郭文贵完全不会以任何方式作为企业的控制人。 问：余先生对您确认郭文贵完全不会以任何方式作为企业空之人的要求有何回应？ 答：他确认郭文贵不是 UBO，交易所也没有使用他的资金。 法官说：UBO是什么意思？ 证人说：最终受益所有人。这是《银行保密法》的专业术语。 问：余先生是否解释过喜马拉雅美元是否有黄金支持？ 答：他没有提过。 问：您在伦敦是否见过一个名叫 Priya Patel的人？ 答：是的。 问：Priya Patel是谁？ 答：Priya Patel被认为是公司最高级别的法务人员。 问：哪家公司？ 答：我所知道的是汉密尔顿，各种由汉密尔顿运营的基金，以及喜马拉雅交易所。 问：您对汉密尔顿是什么的了解？ 答：有几个不同的实体使用汉密尔顿这个名字。例如，汉密尔顿特殊机会基金，那些汉密尔顿实 体通常是我所了解的，是投资余建明及其投资者资金的投资工具。 问：您对谁在运营汉密尔顿实体有何了解？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 8 / 230页 答：余建明。 问：余建明的姓是什么？ 答：余。 问：您是否审查过——算了，删除。 芬克律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以为证人和陪审团播放证据——但请不要在审 判主任系统外——GX C370-V。 请播放几秒钟。 （播放视频） 芬克律师说：请暂停。 由检方律师芬克先生进行： 问：柯林斯先生，当 Mercantile银行考虑将喜马拉雅交易所作为客户引入时，您看过这个视频 吗？ 答：我看过几个视频。这个看起来很熟悉。 芬克律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请播放。 （播放视频） 芬克律师说：可以停止了。 问：柯林斯先生，您当时看这个视频有什么反应？ 答：我觉得这纯粹是营销。我并没有什么特别的反应。 问：在决定引入一位客户时，Mercantile银行会考虑客户的市场营销吗？ 答：有时会。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 9 / 230页 问：这次您考虑了吗？ 答：我相信与我的《银行保密法》团队一起，我们整体上是考虑了的。 问：柯林斯先生，我们刚看的这个视频中有一句话说“到月球”。您看到并听到了吗？ 答：是的。 问：您熟悉“到月球”这个说法吗？ 答：我的意思是，它来自一部老的黑白电视剧，但是，是的。 问：在加密货币的背景下，您熟悉“到月球”这个说法吗？ 答：有点吧。 问：这是什么意思呢？ 答：这意味着价格将无限上升。 问：这是加密货币社区中人们使用的一个说法，“到月球”吗？ 答：我之前听过。 芬克律师说：我们可以取下这个，洛夫特斯女士。 问：柯林斯先生，Mercantile银行最终是否接受喜马拉雅交易所作为客户了？ 答：是的。 问：大约有多少银行账户是喜马拉雅交易所在您的银行开设的？ 答：我不记得具体数字，但在四到六个之间。 问：当您接受喜马拉雅交易所作为客户时，您认为喜马拉雅交易所是一家合法的商业吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 10 / 230页 问：Mercantile银行为喜马拉雅交易所存储黄金吗？ 答：没有。 问：是否曾有时候，G-Clubs将资金转入喜马拉雅交易所的银行账户？ 答：我相信是有的。 芬克律师说：请为证人显示标记为辨认的政府证物 MER1203。 问：柯林斯先生，您在显示器上看到了吗？ 答：是的。 问：请看一下那个，告诉我政府证物 MER1203 是什么。 答：你可以——我可以从下往上读吗？ 问：当然。 答：好的。这样就可以了。好的。 问：MER1203 是什么？ 答：这是我协助从G-Clubs到喜马拉雅交易所的一次资金移动。 问：是谁请求进行这次移动的？ 答：Alex H. 问：根据您的了解，他为哪家公司工作？ 答：G-Clubs. 芬克律师说：政府提供 MER1203。 卡马拉珠律师说：无异议。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 11 / 230页 法官说：准予。 （政府的证物 MER1203 接受为证据） 芬克律师说：可以发布吗，洛夫特斯女士。您可以在它显示出来时滚动到底部。 法官说：先生，当你说一次移动，你的意思是什么？ 证人说：一次电汇。 法官说：请大声点说。 证人说：一次电汇。 由检方律师芬克先生进行： 问：柯林斯先生，您能读一下现在屏幕顶部的，2021 年 12 月 1 日，从 Alex H发给Georgette 和您的电邮，开头是“I was told”吗？ 答：好的。 问：您能读一下吗。 答：大声吗？ 问：是的，请。 答：好的。"我被告知账户已开通并准备接受资金。请您分享一下喜马拉雅国际清算有限公司账 户在 Mercantile银行的汇款信息，以便我安排转账 5000万美元。" 芬克律师说：请向上滚动。 问：对那封邮件您怎么回复？ 答：“您希望我来协助这个吗？我不想在没有您的许可的情况下，与他分享您的账户号码或详 情。" 那是我对 Georgette的评论。 芬克律师说：请再向上滚动，洛夫特斯女士。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 12 / 230页 问：在 Georgette回复“这需要通过首席财务官协调”之后，柯林斯先生，您怎么回复的？ 答：“听起来不错。John，你能与 Mahsud合作进行这次授权吗（直接与 G-Clubs沟通 汇款说明，包括喜马拉雅的账户号码），以便 G-Clubs可以从G-Clubs账户将资金转移到已经 为购买币而开设的喜马拉雅账户吗？” 芬克律师说：请为证人显示标记为辨认的政府证物 MER1204。 问：有没有一次，柯林斯先生——在展示这个之前——余先生请您帮助了他所谓的 VIP客户？ 答：有。 问：您能在屏幕上看到这个文件吗，先生？ 答：只看到了标题，是的。 芬克律师说：可以向下滚动吗，洛夫特斯女士。 问：柯林斯先生，这个文件 MER1204 是什么？ 答：看起来像是我和余建明之间的一系列消息。 芬克律师说：政府提供 MER1204。 卡马拉珠律师说：无异议。 法官说：准予。 （政府的证物 MER1204 接受为证据） 芬克律师说：请发布这个。 问：柯林斯先生，这些信息的月份和年份是什么时候？ 答：2022 年 3 月。 问：您能读一下 2022 年 3 月 17 日下午 5:45的第三条信息吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 13 / 230页 答：“在任何情况下，我都不会携带 1亿 BTC 在 U盘上去迪拜。” 问：BTC 是什么？ 答：这是比特币的缩写。 问：为什么您写“在任何情况下，我都不会携带 1亿比特币在 U盘上去迪拜”？为什么您将这条信 息发送给余建明？ 答：在我们讨论时，余建明问我是否愿意这样做。 问：愿意做什么？ 答：携带价值 1亿美元的比特币在 U盘上。 问：余建明有没有提供任何信息说为什么他想让您这样做？ 答：没有。 问：您为什么拒绝了呢？ 答：有很多原因。也许最主要的是我的人身安全；其次是，这将绕过每一个《银行保密法》的要 求；而且我很确定——我不记得法律确切通过的时间，但可能携带超过 10,000 美元的价值过境 却不申报是重罪。 问：所以您拒绝了。 答：是的。 芬克律师说：好的。请向下滚动，洛夫特斯女士。就在那里。 问：2022 年 3 月 17 日晚上 11:38，您能读一下余建明发给您的消息吗？ 答：对不起，您说几点？ 问：晚上 11:38。 答：您要我读出来吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 14 / 230页 问：是的，请。 答：“嗨，您能帮忙检查一下以下账户是否已经开通了吗？如果没有，还有什么未解决的问题 吗？名字是：英国喜马拉雅有限责任公司。董事是：戴建峰。” 他的电子邮件，然后说了“谢 谢。” 问：您知道戴建峰是谁吗？ 答：我不记得这个人。 问：余建明为什么会向您询问这个人戴先生，您的理解是什么？ 答：我不记得我们真的谈过他。我想他是英国喜马拉雅有限责任公司的签字人，但我不确定我们 是否讨论过该运营实体账户的目的。 芬克律师说：我们可以把它取下。 问：柯林斯先生，有没有一次，余建明请求您帮助进行一笔与贷款有关的资金转移？ 答：有。 问：那大约是什么时候？ 答：我记得是在 2022 年复活节期间。 问：关于这笔贷款的情况余先生告诉了您什么？ 答：贷款是给一个与郭先生破产有关的托管账户的，用作他们从美国搬到地中海的一大块抵押物 的担保物，这是一艘大游艇，贷款是为了及时满足法院的要求，因为他们没有时间把游艇开回美 国，这是为了促进郭先生自由的短期贷款。 问：您这是什么意思？ 答：我被告知如果贷款不能马上实现，他将被监禁。 问：郭先生吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 15 / 230页 答：是的。 问：余先生告诉您的吗？ 答：是的。 问：抵押物是什么？根据您与余先生的谈话理解，您能解释一下这是怎么回事吗。 答：在正常的贷款安排中，贷款人将以抵押物作为贷款的担保，如果贷款未能偿还，他们可以对 抵押物进行止赎并出售，以偿还贷款。 问：抵押物被移出国家的原因是什么？您能解释一下吗。 答：据我了解——我不是律师，但——破产受托人对一些重大的资产被移出美国司法管辖范围感 到不满。 问：谁的资产？ 答：郭先生的。 问：哪个破产律师事务所负责哪个破产案？ 答：郭先生的。 问：根据您的理解，从谈话中，移出了什么样的资产？ 答：游艇。 问：什么游艇？ 答：我不记得它的名字。 问：那么这笔贷款如何解决余先生和郭先生的问题？ 卡马拉珠律师说：反对。 法官说：反对有效。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 16 / 230页 问：根据余先生告诉您的情况，这笔贷款如何解决这个问题？ 卡马拉珠律师说：相同反对。 法官说：反对有效。是否有贷款请求呢？ 证人说：请求不是来自我的贷款。贷款是由余建明及其公司之一向郭先生的亲属提供 的，我认为这名亲属在银行被列为所有者，但受托人已确定这艘游艇是资产中的一项重要资产。 由检方律师芬克先生进行询问： 问：如果不是来自您的贷款的话，那么 Mercantile银行在这笔潜在贷款中的角色是什么？ 答：我们只是根据余建明的指示，将资金汇入案件涉及的律师的托管账户。 问：余建明账户与什么业务有关，您知道吗？ 答：我模糊记得是喜马拉雅实体之一，但我不记得具体是哪一个。 问：当您说喜马拉雅实体，指的是什么？ 答：我们银行有账户的喜马拉雅公司之一。 问：意思是喜马拉雅交易所？ 答：是的。 问：当时这看起来像是一笔合理的商业交易吗？ 答：虽然不寻常，但看起来合理。 问：您说有一位女士参与了这个过程？ 答：是的，我不记得我是否看过游艇的实际产权，但我理解贷款是为了破产——嗯，我不记得贷 款的签署人是谁，但这是一个我以前从未见过的人。她被认为是郭先生的亲属，我认为她的名字 实际上在游艇的产权上。 问：Mercantile银行是否促成了从喜马拉雅实体到这个贷款托管账户的汇款？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 17 / 230页 答：是的，是的。 问：好的。 芬克律师说：政府提供，根据——请给我一点时间。 （律师商议中） 芬克律师说：根据关于银行记录文件的协议，政府提供证据GX MER138。 卡马拉珠律师说：没有异议，法官大人。 法官说：准予。 （政府的证物 MER138 接受为证据） 由检方律师芬克先生进行： 问：顺便问一下，柯林斯先生，余建明告诉您，他与郭先生的关系是什么性质？ 答：您有具体的时间点吗，还是—— 问：一般来说。 答：他提到郭先生是他最好的朋友，郭先生比任何人都信任他，他们关系非常亲密。 问：您能在屏幕上看到政府证物 MER138 吗？我想它已经发布了，但—— 答：是的。 问：这是什么类型的文件？您认得这个格式吗？ 答：看起来像是 Mercantile银行的月度对账单。 问：这个月度对账单的实体名称是什么？ 答：喜马拉雅国际金融集团有限公司。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 18 / 230页 问：这是喜马拉雅或余建明的账户之一吗？ 答：是的。 问：您看到金额中显示的减去 3700万美元吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是什么？ 答：我相信那是我们与游艇和托管账户贷款相关的汇款金额。 问：还写着 Zeisler & Zeisler, PC IOLTA账户。您看到了吗？ 答：是的。 问：您对 Zeisler & Zeisler, PC IOLTA账户是什么意思有什么理解？ 答：那是我一直在提的托管账户。 问：所以 3700万美元的汇款是您之前提到的贷款？ 答：那是余建明和喜马拉雅给郭先生的贷款。 问：贷款处理后，余先生有什么反应吗？ 答：我想纠正一下我刚才说的话。我不知道贷款是给郭先生的。它与郭先生的破产资产有关，但 从技术上讲，我认为贷款是给另一人的。 问：好的。这笔汇款处理后，余先生有何反应，如果有的话？ 答：这笔汇款处理后，他的反吗？我认为他很感激我们能够如此迅速地处理这件事。 芬克律师说：可以把这个取下来了，洛夫特斯女士。 问：除了喜马拉雅交易所与 Mercantile银行的业务外，您与余建明还有其他什么业务讨论吗， 如果有的话？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 19 / 230页 答：也许您可以把问题缩小一些。 问：您有没有考虑与余先生进行除在 Mercantile银行开户之外的商业交易？ 答：有。 问：那笔交易的性质是什么？ 答：在我们关系的早期，我们讨论了投资交易所——对不起——投资我们的银行——技术上讲是 我们的控股公司——他确实进行了初始投资。然后，这次对话扩大到关于基本上购买银行的控股 权的更大对话。 问：对不起，谁在考虑购买银行的控股权？ 答：余建明，通过他的一个实体，我想叫汉密尔顿特殊机会基金。 问：您所说的银行是指 Mercantile银行吗？ 答：是的。 问：关于将 Mercantile银行的控股权出售给余建明的公司，这些谈判谈到哪一步了？ 答：根据我们所同意的条款，它们最终在 9 月 16 日完成了实际的交易。 问：余先生愿意支付多少大约的价格来购买Mercantile银行的控股权？ 答：最终他将投资近一亿美元。第一笔资金是 4950万美元。 问：是否有一个监管机构监管Mercantile银行？ 答：是的。 问：那个监管机构的名字是什么？ 答：如果您愿意，我们的审慎监管机构是一家通常用它们的缩写称呼的公司，称为 OCIF，即波 多黎各的银行机构。 问：关于余建明可能购买Mercantile银行的交易，余先生是否需要向 OCIF作出任何陈述？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 20 / 230页 答：是的。 问：关于郭文贵？ 答：关于很多事情，但是—— 问：余先生需要向 OCIF作出的陈述中有些是关于郭文贵的吗？ 答：是的。 问：余先生向 OCIF陈述了什么关于郭文贵的事情，如果有的话？ 答：郭文贵不是最终受益所有人（UBO），参与基金的投资的资金实际上并不是郭文贵 的钱或财产的一部分。 问：据您所知，他做了这些陈述吗？ 答：是的。 问：这笔交易原定何时完成，将 Mercantile银行出售给汉密尔顿特殊机会基金？ 答：原定的交易日期是 8 月 24 日，但我们不得不将其延至 9 月 16 日。 法官说：哪一年？ 证人说：2022 年。 问：交易在 2022 年 9 月 16 日完成了吗？ 答：是的。 问：Mercantile银行在 2022 年 9 月 16 日收到最终付款了吗？ 答：没有。 问：Mercantile银行在 2022 年 9 月 16 日预计收到多少？ 答：4950万美元。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 21 / 230页 问：为什么 Mercantile银行在 2022 年 9 月 16 日没有收到 4950万美元？ 答：为什么我们没有收到？ 问：是的。 答：资金在转账途中被美国法警扣押了。 问：您是怎么知道的？ 答：嗯—— 问：最初是怎么知道的？ 答：电汇是在美国的一个星期五下午发起的，我们并不奇怪当天没有清算，只是因为时间太晚 了。所以到了星期一，我们在寻找这笔电汇。当时我们在伦敦。电汇没有出现。到了星期二还是 没有消息。我想到了星期三，我们意识到可能出现了某种问题。 问：您与余先生谈过这个潜在的问题吗？ 答：谈过。 问：他说了什么？ 答：他说他们没有收到任何来自他们银行的通讯，他们不知道为什么汇款没有清算，我请他们调 查一下，我也问他们是否可以让我调查。 问：您调查了吗？ 答：调查了。 问：您了解到了什么？ 答：我碰巧认识发起电汇的 Silvergate银行的 CEO，所以我给他打了电话，我们简短地讨论了 电汇的去向，他表示对此一无所知，所以他说他会进一步调查。第二天，我收到他的邮件，说他 无法继续讨论这个账户的问题，并且——他说我应该让账户的所有者立即与他们联系。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 22 / 230页 问：你这样做了吗？ 答：做了。 问：接下来发生了什么？ 答：余建明和 Priya联系了他们，我想他们打了个电话，然后揭示了汇款已被扣押的事实。 问：汇款被扣押后，余先生对喜马拉雅交易所提出了什么请求吗？ 答：我不——我的意思是，有很多对话和几个请求，也许您可以帮我缩小范围。 问：当然。 芬克律师说：如果我们可以显示标记为辨认的政府证物 MER1205。 如果您可以向下滚动，让柯林斯先生看一下，谢谢。 问：柯林斯先生，这个文件 MER1205是什么？ 答：这是我和余建明之间的一系列WhatsApp通讯。 问：日期是什么？ 答：2022 年 9 月 23 日。 芬克律师说：政府提供 MER1205。 卡马拉珠律师说：无异议。 法官说：准予。 （政府的证物 MER1205接受为证据） 芬克律师说：可以发布这个吗，谢谢，洛夫特斯女士。可以放大顶部，谢谢。 由检方芬克律师提问
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 23 / 230页 问：第一条消息说，“我将在 11点与 Mahsud通话。”是这样吗？这是您发的吗？ 答：是的。 问：Mahsud是谁？ 答：Ehsan Mahsud被认为是喜马拉雅交易所的首席财务官。 问：为什么您问他是否知道发生了什么事？ 答：对我来说，这些都是非常不寻常的情况，我不想在不合适的时间对不合适的人说一些不恰当 的话，部分原因是因为商业责任，所以我只是想了解 Ehsan对周围发生的事情有什么了解，因 为那是一个非常混乱的时期，有很多极端的信息在流传，我只是想要小心一点。 由检方律师芬克先生进行： 问：我只是想让您把麦克风稍微往下移动一点，这样每个人都能听到您的声音。 柯林斯先生，当您说“意识到发生了什么事”时，“什么事”指的是什么？ 答：几件事。Silvergate的资金被冻结或被扣押。我们得知另一个我们熟悉的银行 FV银行也发 生了与喜马拉雅有关的重大扣押事件，我们不知道还有什么其他情况。一般来说，我的问题是， 他是否知道与这些扣押有关的事情，因为即使是最高级的管理人员也不一定能实时了解。 问：然后在几条信息之后，余建明在早上 9:03 说，我们只是在正常赎回客户的资金。谢谢。我 读对了吗？ 答：是的。 问：您对这句话的理解是什么？ 答：赎回通常意味着他们用 HDO或 HCN换取现金。 问：根据您的理解，为什么余先生在这个时候谈论一个客户的正常赎回？ 卡马拉珠律师说：反对。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 24 / 230页 法官说：您可以陈述您对这句话的理解。 答：嗯，我的理解是他想在这个时间点赎回喜马拉雅交易所上的一种币，换取美元，涉及到一个 正常客户。 问：在扣押发生后，余先生是否一开始就确定了这个客户是谁？ 答：一开始没有。 问：余先生一开始是如何描述这个客户的？ 答：他描述为——嗯，他只是说是一个正常客户的赎回，我相信后来他提到是一个VIP客户。 问：在您提到的银行资金扣押之后，余先生为这个客户寻求的赎回金额是多少？ 答：大约在 4200万到 5000万美元之间。 问：余先生是否向 Mercantile银行提供了文件以促进这次赎回？ 答：是的。 法官说：在赎回中，资金从哪里转到哪里？ 证人说：我认为这里存在一个术语问题，他所说的赎回，在我们看来应该是交易，所以 他是在将他的 HCN 出售换取美元。他之所以称之为赎回，是因为他们恰好控制了这个平台，所 以他们可以通过设定一个价值来实现赎回。但后来我相信他们给我们发送了我们所说的交易确认 书，实际上显示这更像是一次交易而不是赎回。 问：如果要进行赎回或交易，Mercantile银行会如何促成这种真实世界中的事件？ 答：嗯，他所说的赎回中，我们的角色只是汇款。我们不参与交易。我们不参与赎回的机制。我 们只是响应请求。我们要求提供支持文件，因为这符合我们的《银行保密法》要求。 问：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以撤下这个，并为证人展示标记为政府展品 MER-5和 MER-6 的文件。柯林斯先生，这些文件是谁签的？ 答：余建明。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 25 / 230页 问：这些文件是什么？ 答：这些是我称之为交易确认的文件。 问：这与我们刚刚讨论的交易有关吗？ 答：是的。 芬克律师说：政府提供 MER-5和 MER-6。 卡马拉珠律师说：无异议。 法官说：准予。 （政府的证物 MER-5和 MER-6 接受为证据） 由检方律师芬克先生进行询问： 问：我们可以发布吗，洛夫特斯女士。 柯林斯先生，您对 Mercantile银行为什么会收到这些您所说的交易确认文件有何理解？ 答：我推测这是我们与合规功能相关的文件收集的一部分。 问：屏幕左侧显示卖家出售 1,308,000多 HCN，每个 HCN价格为 24.46，卖家收到 3200万 HDO。您看到了吗？ 答：是的。 问：您对此的理解是什么？ 答：这意味着卖家，刚在下面列出，名为余建明 K. [email protected]的账户，正在出售HDO—— 对不起，他正在出售HCN换取HDO。 问：HDO是如何向您描述的？ 答：一个稳���币。对不起，一个稳定币。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 26 / 230页 问：HDO的价格是如何描述给您的？ 答：价格总是等于一，因为它是由美元一对一支持的——对不起，是由美元支持的。 问：HCN 是如何被描述给您的？ 答：HCN 是一种数字资产，更类似于像比特币这样的真正的加密货币。 问：这就是它是如何被描述给您的吗？ 答：是的。 问：通过出售这些 HCN，卖方收到 3200万HDO，这相当于多少美元？ 答：3200万美元。 问：然后看到卖方账户的名称，是否为 Mercantile银行提供了有关这个VIP客户的任何信息？ 答：我相信我们的合规部门当时会注意到的。 问：那么余先生所说的他正在帮助赎回的 VIP客户是谁？ 答：是余建明·K——嗯，要么是余建明，要么是一个叫 ACA Capital的公司。 问：屏幕右侧的文件显示卖方出售 572,000多 HCN，卖方收到 1400万HDO，您对这 1400万 HDO的美元价值有何理解？ 答：1400万美元。 问：所以 3200万加上 1400万是多少？ 答：4600万美元。 问：这是余建明在银行扣押后不久要求转账的金额吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 27 / 230页 问：在得知这个客户——对不起。在得知这个转账的客户，即这次赎回的客户，是余建明或 ACA Cap后，您对此有何反应，如果有的话？ 答：我不记得有什么特别的反应，只是对一开始没有直接说明感到恼火。 问：什么没有公开？ 答：这是他控制的账户。 问：谁刚才说这是一个账户—— 答：对不起，是余建明。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以再次展示 MER-1205吗？我们可以翻到下一页吗？您能从上午 9:03 的那一行放大吗？在上午 9:03，余先生说，我们只是在做一个客户的正常赎回，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您对这个赎回的理解是指什么交易，如果有的话？ 答：我们刚刚审查的交易。 问：再往下一点，在下午 12:31，余先生说，您需要哪些 ACA 的文件？我可以全部发送给您。 您看到了吗，先生？ 答：是的。 问：您对余先生为什么询问您需要哪些 ACA 的文件有什么理解？ 卡马拉珠律师说：反对。 法官说：允许提问。 答：您能再问一遍吗。 问：您对余先生为什么询问您需要哪些 ACA 的文件有什么理解？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 28 / 230页 答：余建明知道我们有严格的合规功能。为了让我们发送这样大额的交易，我们必须对接收方和 发送方进行我们所说的 KYC 检查，这我们已经做过了。 法官说：KYC 是什么意思？ 证人说：对不起。了解您的客户。这是指确保您了解接收, 5 千万，是 4600万美元的人 的信誉。 问：在这个时候，您对 ACA 是什么有何理解？ 答：在关系早期，我在一些新闻文章中见过 ACA，除了它是与余健明有关的实体外，我不太了 解其他信息。 问：在您进行这次谈话的时候，2022 年 9 月 23 日，在银行扣押，汇款扣押后不久，您在考虑 处理余先生要求的这笔交易吗？ 答：没有。 问：为什么不？ 答：很明显有问题。那时我们统计出美国政府在另外两家银行扣押了大约 12亿美元。 问：柯林斯先生，那么您为什么在不打算处理这次转账的情况下，向余先生索要文件？ 答：嗯，我们有商业责任考虑请求，我们在这么做。 问：请再往下一点，洛夫特斯女士。 在下午 1:37，您能读一下余先生写的内容吗？ 答：下午 1:37 吗？ 问：是的，先生。 答：好的。我可以把所有文件发给您，证明我拥有 ACA。您还需要通过您的门户进行操作吗？ 我们需要今天执行，否则就毫无意义。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 29 / 230页 问：在当时，您对为什么必须今天执行，否则就毫无意义有何理解？ 答：我对此没有理解。我对这个术语感到困惑。 问：为什么您对“毫无意义”这个术语感到困惑？ 答：因为从我的角度来看，它并不显得毫无意义。 问：可以再往下一点，洛夫特斯女士。 您能读一下余先生在 2022 年 9 月 23 日下午 4:03写的内容吗？ 答：发给你所有的 ACA资料。我在香港有一些最新信息，但我认为这些信息已经足够了。我们 只是赎回。 问：您对“只是赎回”这个术语的理解是什么？ 答：他们在将他们的持有资产变现为美元。 问：然后在下午 4:50，您能读一下余先生写的内容吗？ 答：马苏德不知道 ACA 的事。如果有任何问题，打电话给我。谢谢。 问：您能读一下余先生在同一天晚上 8:12写的内容吗，2022 年 9 月 23 日？ 答：请告诉我是否需要进一步的信息。我们正在赎回，需要今天完成。否则，这毫无意义。 问：汇款被扣押后，余先生有没有向您解释这次赎回的紧迫性？ 答：没有。 问：您可以把这个取下。请显示标记为政府证物 MER-8 的文件。 顺便问一下，在我们刚刚看的那些信息中，余先生有没有责怪中国共产党对他在银行业务中遇到 的麻烦？ 答：我不记得了。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 30 / 230页 问：您能看到屏幕上的 MER-8 吗？ 答：是的。 问：看一下那份文件。谁签署的？ 答：余建明。 问：这是什么文件？ 答：这看起来像是一个赎回请求表，但实际上是一个汇款请求。 芬克律师说：政府提供 MER-8。 卡马拉珠律师说：无异议。 法官说：证据采纳。 （政府的证物 MER-8 接受为证据） 由检方律师芬克先生进行： 问：您说这是一个赎回请求表，但实际上是什么？ 答：这是请求将资金转入一个叫阿布扎比第一银行的银行。 问：阿布扎比第一银行账户的持有人是谁？ 答：ACA Capital Group Limited。 问：阿布扎比第一银行位于哪里？ 答：阿布扎比，在阿联酋。 问：可以缩小这个视图。在底部写着HDO赎回金额。您看到了吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 31 / 230页 问：4600万HDO的金额，您当时对此有何理解，它相当于多少美元？ 答：4600万美元。 问：这 4600万与我们在聊天记录中看到的您与余先生当时的交易文件有关吗？ 答：是的。 问：余先生要求将这 4600万美元转到中东这一事实对您作为银行家有何影响吗？ 答：对不起。您能再问一遍问题吗。 问：余先生要求您将这 4600万美元转到阿布扎比这一事实，在考虑是否处理这笔汇款时，对您 作为银行家有何影响吗？ 卡马拉珠律师说：反对，形式和复合问题。 法官说：反对有效。这是复合问题。 问：余先生要求您将这笔汇款转到阿布扎比，这对您在考虑是否处理这笔汇款时有何影响吗？ 答：这让我感到不舒服。这似乎是在试图将资金移出美国的管辖范围。我们不清楚阿联酋与美国 之间的各种协议，但它被认为是一个不总是配合扣押的管辖区。 问：您处理了这笔汇款吗？ 答：没有。 问：我们可以显示标记为 MER-1206 的文件吗？请翻到下一页，洛夫特斯女士。可以放大一些 让柯林斯先生看清楚。谢谢。 问：这是什么文件？ 答：这是我和余建明之间的更多信息。 芬克律师说：政府提供 MER-1206。 卡马拉珠律师说：无异议，法官大人。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 32 / 230页 法官说：证据采纳。 芬克律师说：如果我们可以发布这个。 （政府的证物 MER-1206 接受为证据） 由检方律师芬克先生进行： 问：我们可以发布这些信息吗？这些信息的日期是什么时候？ 答：2022 年 9 月 24 日。 问：您能读一下余先生在晚上 11:14给您的信息吗？ 答：好的。嗨，Bo，Rene，Priya和我们的律师今天谈了话。我们的律师正在与司法部谈判， 释放资金以完成交易。我们需要贵银行的一封简单信函，表明如果交易未能完成，您将遭受损 失。如果您想通知 PMA关于此事，我们没问题。我可以向您保证，没有一分钱来自郭文贵和我 们的独立基金管理员。我们的内部合规部门和银行监管机构已经核实了这一点。Rene似乎对此 有疑问，甚至询问了我们的律师。这将危及我们与律师的关系。 问：Rene是谁？ 答：Rene Carson是 MGH和 MBI的总法律顾问。 问：意思是 Mercantile银行吗？ 答：是的。 问：除了作为总法律顾问，您与 Rene Carson 有什么关系吗？ 答：她是我的妻子。 问：这里提到的 PMA 是什么？ 答：PMA 是一家位于波多黎各的律师事务所，代表汉密尔顿机会基金。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 33 / 230页 问：您对余先生在信息中提到的“Rene似乎对此有疑问，甚至询问了我们的律师。这将危及我们 与律师的关系”是什么意思有什么理解？ 答：他在回应我上面的消息，我说，我对刚刚听到的消息感到震惊，即他不希望我们在商业协议 中规定的任何违约关闭情况下通知，这样他不希望我们与 PMA就此事件的情况进行沟通。 问：他是谁，“他”指的是谁？ 答：余建明和 Priya不希望我们与他们的律师沟通此事件的情况。 问：当您说“此事件”时，指的是什么？ 答：扣押事件。 问：余先生有没有向您解释为什么他不希望Mercantile银行与余先生的律师沟通扣押事件？ 答：他在底部写道，这将危及我们与律师的关系。 问：余先生有没有解释为什么扣押会危及他们与律师的关系？ 答：他没有提供细节。 问：在这条信息中，余先生还请求贵银行 Mercantile银行提供一封简单的信函，表明如果交易 未能完成，您将遭受损失。您对这是什么意思有什么理解？ 答：他们当时向我们表示，他们与司法部每天都有沟通，他们至少请求释放 4950万美元，因为 这对第三方造成了伤害，他们希望我们验证这一点。 问：Mercantile银行提供了信函吗？ 答：我相信是的。 问：在那下面写道，我可以向您保证，没有一分钱来自郭文贵，我们的独立基金管理员。您对郭 文贵指的是谁有什么理解？ 答：郭文贵。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 34 / 230页 问：Mercantile银行是否收到过美国政府的扣押令？ 答：最初我们收到的是冻结令，后来是扣押令。 问：冻结令是什么？ 答：冻结令意味着我们不能把钱转移到任何地方。 问：冻结令涉及哪些账户？ 答：我相信所有与余建明有关的账户。 问：然后您说收到扣押令，扣押令与冻结令有什么区别？ 答：扣押令意味着我们实际上将资金汇到美国法警办公室，并且资金归美国政府监管。 问：Mercantile银行这样做了吗，Mercantile银行将喜马拉雅的资金转移给美国政府了吗？ 答：是的。 问：Mercantile银行保留了喜马拉雅和 G-Clubs账户中的任何资金吗？ 答：是的。 问：为什么？ 答：我们的合同中有商业条款，允许我们抵消与账户相关的合规和法律费用。 问：因此，您与汉密尔顿发生了法律纠纷吗？ 答：我不记得在这个问题上有法律纠纷，但我记得不太清楚。 问：您与汉密尔顿有任何法律纠纷吗，您的意思是 Mercantile银行？ 答：是的。实际上，我认为我们没有，除了我们提交了仲裁申请。 问：您指的是谁，Mercantile银行？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 35 / 230页 答：Mercantile 全球控股公司。 问：为什么 Mercantile银行提交仲裁申请？ 答：因为他们未能完成关闭要求。 问：他们是谁？ 答：汉密尔顿特殊机会基金。 问：还有一个与 G-Clubs的仲裁吗？ 答：我相信有一个悬而未决的案件已被中止。 芬克律师说：请稍等一下。目前没有其他问题。谢谢，柯林斯先生。 法官说：交叉询问。 卡马拉珠律师说：谢谢，法官大人。为了安排时间，我们上午的休息时间是 11点还是 11点 30分？ 法官说：11点 30分是我们半小时的休息时间，然后我们将在 2点 30分再休息一次。 卡马拉珠律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 交叉询问 由辩方卡马拉珠先生提问： 问：早上好，柯林斯先生。 答：早上好。 问：现在，我们能调出政府证物 MER-1205吗，这已经作为证据提交。 问：芬克先生在直接询问中问了您一些关于这个问题的问题，对吗？ 答：我想是的。我只看到一个标题。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 36 / 230页 问：我们可以快速滚动一下，以便您看一下。 答：是的，这是我们讨论过的。 问：这是关于赎回请求的WhatsApp信息交换，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您在直接询问中作证说那次赎回请求从未发生，对吗？撤回。 问：您在直接询问中作证说，您从未根据这次赎回请求汇出任何资金，对吗？ 答：我们没有。 问：事实上，您从未打算根据这次赎回请求汇出任何资金，对吗？ 答：那是正确的。 问：我们可以翻到文件的第三页吗。 问：您看到余先生在晚上 9:03发送的消息了吗，倒数第二条？ 答：嗨，请等到星期一。 问：他指的是这次赎回请求，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您从未告诉他您不打算履行这次赎回请求，对吗？ 答：我从未告诉他。 问：所以，事实上，余先生自行取消了这次请求，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是在您处理之前，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 37 / 230页 答：是的。 问：我们可以暂时把这个取下来。 问：您描述的汉密尔顿与 Mercantile银行之间的交易是汉密尔顿收购银行的股份，对吗？ 答：技术上是收购全资拥有银行的控股公司股份，但对。 问：所以间接地通过购买控股公司的股份来购买银行，对吗？ 答：对。 问：我相信您在直接询问中作证说，这笔交易在 2022 年 9 月 16 日完成，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在交易完成之前，您必须获得您称之为 OCIF 的授权，对吗？ 答：对。 问：您向 OCIF 提交了申请，对吗？ 答：我想技术上是由余建明和汉密尔顿特殊机会基金提交的申请。 问：Mercantile银行在此过程中没有向 OCIF 提交任何文件吗？ 答：我不记得有什么要求。我们有内部和外部律师处理此事。 问：您明白与该申请有关的内容是提交给监管您银行的实体，对吗？ 答：对。 问：因此，履行您对该监管机构的承诺对您很重要，对吗？ 答：对。 问：事实上，您在多个场合对余先生说过这一点，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 38 / 230页 答：是的。 问：您不想让您的监管机构将您与任何形式的不当行为联系起来，对吗？ 答：对。 问：那会对您的银行产生负面影响，对吗？ 答：对。 问：无论是汉密尔顿还是 Mercantile银行的申请，都在 2022 年 4 月提交，对吗？ 答：听起来是对的。 问：那就是那年复活节前后，对吗？ 答：是的，我不记得具体日期。 问：但那大约是贷款提交的时间，对吗？ 答：对。 问：现在，我们能调出政府证物 MER-1204 吗。 问：这已经作为证据提交了，所以我们可以展示给陪审团看。 答：对我来说只是一个标题。 问：我会让它滚动过去，让陪审团能看到。好的。我们可以滚动过去，让证人看一下。 问：您还记得在直接询问中关于这些信息交换作证吗？ 答：记得。 问：您记得芬克先生问过您关于这句话的问题吗，我不会携带 1亿美元的 BTC 在 U盘上去迪 拜，对吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 39 / 230页 问：您在 2022 年 3 月 17 日发送了这条信息，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是在您提交 OCIF申请之前，对吗？ 答：我不——您能告诉我 OCIF 提交的日期吗？我不记得了。 问：当然。也许我们可以并排展示这个辩护律师——实际上，让我们把这个取下，仅供证人查看 DX-60554。 问：您看到了吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是申请吗？ 答：看起来像是给 OCIF 的一封信。如果您能缩小一些。那描述了交易。我们可以往下看信件内 容吗，这样我能看到全部内容？ 问：当然。 答：好的。那是汉密尔顿的律师签署的。 问：在我们这样做之前。这是申请吗？ 答：我相信这是汉密尔顿提交的申请。 问：这是提交给 OCIF 的申请吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是与 Mercantile银行或汉密尔顿交易有关的申请吗？ 答：是的。 卡马拉珠律师说：辩方提交 DX-60554 证据，阁下。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 40 / 230页 芬克律师说：我有一个澄清问题。 这是汉密尔顿的申请吗？ 证人说：我不确定。我们可以看看最后一页。我们浏览得非常快。 由辩方卡马拉珠律师继续提问： 问：你能把第一段放大给证人看吗？ 答：这是一个审批请求。 问：对不起，我是说最开始的那一段。 答：那一段，我不是想咬文嚼字，但它描述了我们正在请求对这笔交易的审批，但这不一定是申 请。我认为这是有区别的。 问：明白了。这是一封与 Mercantile或汉密尔顿交易相关的申请提交给 OCIF 的信吗？ 答：是的。 问：是一封代表你的银行提交的信吗？ 答：我相信是的。 卡马拉珠律师说：辩方提交 DX-60554 证据。 答：我能再看看签署人吗？我有点困惑。 问：请便。 答：是的，所以，这封信是由我们的律师和汉密尔顿的律师签署的，这可能是我不记得这封信的 原因，但好吧。 法官说：有任何反对吗？ 芬克律师说：是的，反对，传闻，真实性，几个问题。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 41 / 230页 卡马拉珠律师说：我不是为了信的内容提供它。我只是为了它被提交的事实提供它。 法官说：你不是为了内容提供它，而只是为了信被提交的事实？ 卡马拉珠律师说：是的。 法官说：采纳证据。 （被告的证物 60554 接纳为证据） 卡马拉珠律师说：我们可以发布它吗。 芬克律师说：我可以问一个问题吗。你以前见过这封信吗？ 证人说：我不记得见过这封信。 芬克律师说：我重申反对。 法官说：我将允许这封信。 问：我们可以发布它吗。你看这封信的日期，是 2022 年 4 月 18 日吗？ 答：是的。 问：那么可以公平地说，在这个日期，你们仍在推进与汉密尔顿的交易，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：现在，如果我们可以回到政府证物 MER-1204，请。我们可以到第二页，并放大开始的消 息，“在任何情况下”。 你看到了吗？ 答：是的，先生。 问：你在 2022 年 3 月 17 日发送了这条信息吗？ 答：是的，先生。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 42 / 230页 问：你在刚刚我们看到的提交给 OCIF 的信之前发送了这条信息，对吗？ 答：是的，先生。 问：没有任何和余先生对话关于携带 1亿美元比特币在 U盘上到迪拜的对话没有导致你取消与 汉密尔顿的交易，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：你没有向 OCIF 报告这个请求，对吗？ 答：嗯，我不确定我们是否有义务向 OCIF 报告，但我们有义务在 SARS上报告。 问：我不是在问你的法律理解，我只是问事实，你没有提交给 OCIF，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我们调出政府证物GX-MER-138。我们也可以发布它。 问：这是显示贷款出去的银行对账单，对吗？ 答：我相信是的。 问：那么可以公平地说，你与余先生关于贷款出去的对话发生在这笔交易之前，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：汇款在 2022 年 4 月 15日发出，对吗？如果你看到提款 3700万美元的地方。 答：看起来是 4 月 15日。 问：那么贷款也在我们刚刚看到的提交给 OCIF 的信之前发出，对吗？ 答：对。 问：关于这笔贷款请求没有导致你取消与汉密尔顿的交易，对吗？ 答：对。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 43 / 230页 问：你也没有向 OCIF 报告这笔贷款，对吗？ 答：我不记得我们是否报告过，但我不记得。 问：我们可以把它取下。 问：你在直接询问中被问到一个短语，“到月球”，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你看到一个视频，其中郭先生使用了这个短语，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你描述它基本上是营销材料，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我认为你说过“到月球”这个短语最初来自一部老的黑白电视剧，对吗？ 答：是的，我想是《新婚燕尔》。 问：这是我想问的。是《新婚燕尔》，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是加密货币行业的常用短语，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：郭先生不是唯一一个使用这个短语的人，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：埃隆·马斯克也用过这个短语来形容狗狗币，对吗？ 芬克律师说：反对。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 44 / 230页 答：我不知道。 法官说：反对有效。 问：在你关注加密货币行业的过程中，你听过这个短语，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我理解 Mercantile 银行正在清算——撤回。 问：Mercantile银行是一家位于波多黎各的银行，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：它是什么时候成立的？ 答：我相信我们在 2016 年 12 月——对不起，2018 年 12 月获得了组织许可证，我们在 2019 年春天开始运营。 问：在成立 Mercantile银行之前，你也在考虑成立一个加密货币交易所，对吗？ 答：那是我们最初计划的一部分。 问：你打算称它为圣胡安商业交易所，对吗？ 答：对。 问：你对加密货币的理解是什么？ 芬克律师说：反对。 法官说：反对无效。你说过你可能会成立这样一个实体，你是指你个人还是银行？ 证人说：控股公司。所以 Mercantile 全球控股公司拥有两个资产，一个是银行，另一个 是我们称之为圣胡安商业交易所的东西，这两者是一起运营的。 法官说：你可以回答你对加密货币交易所的理解。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 45 / 230页 答：加密货币交易所撮合买卖双方的加密资产，通常是某种法定货币。有时是不同的加密资产。 问：圣胡安商品交易所从未真正启动过，对吗？ 答：对的。 问：但 Mercantile银行确实着重于加密货币，对吗？ 答：对。 问：记得你在直接问询中说过，你对 Mercantile银行的愿景是它成为数字资产行业的结算银 行，记得吗？ 答：记得。 问：什么是结算银行？ 答：结算银行是指我们为与交易所交易相关的资金清算提供便利。 问：所以，如果我理解正确的话，这些资金的清算是在交易所的交易之后进行的，对吗？ 答：这取决于交易的处理方式，可以说是同时进行的，但要么是即时进行的，要么是在交易后不 久进行的。 问：这就是你所说的结算，对吗？ 答：对。 问：你还作证说，Mercantile银行是美国第一家获得持有和传输数字资产许可证的银行，对吗？ 答：对。 问：你说的“持有和传输数字资产”是什么意思？ 答：我们可以保管你的数字资产。以比特币为例。如果你想将比特币存入我们的银行，我们可以 为你保管该资产。我们也可以传输它。 问：这是你们银行宣传的服务之一，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 46 / 230页 答：是的。 问：记得你在直接询问中作证说，你知道的加密货币有 20,000种？ 答：我已经记不清数量了。 问：可以说是成千上万种？ 答：至少。 问：那么贵行是否会为所有这些提供托管服务？ 答：不会。 问：为何不会？ 答：这个行业充斥着许多不会成功的项目。有些项目并不了解我们必须遵守的法律。坦率地说， 从商业角度来看，99% 的加密货币都没有足够的业务。 口译员：口译员请求所有人放慢速度。 法官说：请提问者和证人都慢一点。 卡马拉珠律师说：明白，法官大人。 答：我从头开始回答吧。加密货币中有一些可疑的项目有问题，不一定尊重我们管辖区的法律， 还有对上载特定币存在商业方面的担忧，因为只涉及经济活动。 问：所以你的银行在评估这些因素后，挑选要服务的加密货币（没有更贴切的说法）， 对吗？ 答：对。 问：你还作证说，Mercantile银行是一家代理银行。你还记得吗 答：我们有代理关系。 问：那是什么意思？什么是代理银行
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 47 / 230页 答：通常这只是意味着两家银行互相有账户。 问：当你用不同的货��进行交易时，通常会用到代理银行业务，对吗？ 答：这是一个目的，是的。 问：你能向陪审团解释这将如何运作吗？ 答：我试着举个简单的例子。这样想可能最简单：如果摩根大通有一个拥有美元的客户，需要在 德国购买必须以欧元交易的工业设备，那么他们通常会使用一个在德国银行开设的银行账户，在 该账户中同时存放美元和欧元，他们会简单地接受美国客户以美元支付的款项，然后从摩根大通 在德国开设的相应欧元账户中向德国制造商付款。 因此，一种货币和另一种货币之间同时进行 价值传递和交换。因此，这是管理国际多货币交易的最有效方式。 问：是的。这是因为银行用户，例如摩根大通和美国，可能无法直接从纽约向柏林发送欧元，对 吗？ 答：是的，这样解释合理。 问：对于像Mercantile银行这样的国际银行机构，拥有允许美元交易的代理关系非常重要，对 吗？ 答：是的。我们在联邦储备银行没有直接账户，因此我们依靠自己在其他银行的账户来代表客户 进行交易。 问：我再来谈谈联邦储备银行。在 G-Clubs 成为客户时，你们与美第奇银行有代理关系，对 吗？ 答：对的。 问：但美第奇并不是 Mercantile银行建立的第一家代理关系银行，对吗？ 答：我们在其他银行也有账户，也可以称这些银行为代理银行。 问：那么您与 Signature 银行（签名银行）有代理关系，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 48 / 230页 答：对。 问：有这个代理关系的时候，当时 Mercantile银行在处理交易—— 答：不，不，对不起。我说错了。我们在签名银行没有代理账户，而纯粹是运营账户，这与代理 账户不同。 问：您熟悉一家叫 Bittrex的公司吗？ 答：熟悉。 问：Bittrex曾是 Mercantile银行的客户吗？ 答：是的，但很短暂。 问：您曾用签名银行代表 Bittrex处理交易吗？ 芬克律师说：反对，401条和 403条。 法官说：请上前一步。 （边栏讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 法庭：这些问题与本案有什么相关？ 卡马拉珠律师说：我没有很多问题。我只是想澄清一下账户类型。我从他的 3500材料 中了解到，这个客户 Bittrex正使用 Mercantile银行与签名银行进行代理交易，所以我只是想澄 清这一点。我无意在这个话题上多说。 法官说：为什么这很重要？ 卡马拉珠律师说：嗯，代理银行关系与本案相关，仅此而已。因为一开始 - - 他失去了 这种银行关系。然后他努力寻找另一个代理银行关系。他认为，第一，这与银行在波多黎各有 关。第二，与加密货币有关。我只想证明，事实上建立银行关系是很困难的。这个问题将贯穿整 个庭审过程。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 49 / 230页 芬克律师说：我不认为商业银行与其他客户的关系与本案有任何相关，尤其是像 Bittrex 这样的客户。辩方试图确保柯林斯先生不会被用作伪加密货币专家，这就是为什么最初我反对关 于加密货币交易所的问题。那个问题本身没有问题。我担心的是问题的方向。如果辩方试图利用 商业银行与其他客户的关系，特别是像 Bittrex这样的加密客户，来与喜马拉雅交易所进行比 较，这是不合适的。这是 403条问题，也是 702条问题，但相关性问题占主导地位。在本次审 判中已经有关于G-Clubs或郭氏企业在获得银行关系方面遇到困难的证据，Bittrex获得银行关 系的能力与本次审判无关。将郭氏企业中的实体与 Bittrex 进行比较是不恰当的，这是与该问题 唯一可能相关的地方。即使有关联，也会让陪审团感到困惑。 法官说：Bittrex是什么？ 卡马拉珠律师说：是一个加密货币交易所。 法官说：这是被广泛认为是合法的交易所之一吗？ 芬克律师说：是的。 卡马拉珠律师说：是的。但首先，在维持银行关系方面遇到困难的不是 Bittrex，而是商 业银行。我无意就 Bittrex 的银行关系提出任何建议，也无意将喜马拉雅交易所与 Bittrex相比 较。我只是想澄清他与签名银行的代理银行关系。他告诉我不是。我也曾试图通过 3500材料澄 清这一点。无论现在还是在总结时，我都不打算说 Bittrex 是商业银行的客户这一事实与喜马拉 雅交易所有任何关系。我只想说明商业银行自己的银行关系，而不是 Bittrex。 芬克律师说：那么问题应该是，商业银行在获得代理银行关系方面是否有问题。这样的 描述本身就基本上承认了 Bittrex 没有相关性，因为没有 Bittrex 也可以提出这个观点。我反对的 唯一原因就是提到了 Bittrex。 卡马拉珠律师说：我只是回应证人说有代理银行关系。我只想回到那个问题。如果您愿 意，我会问那个问题，如果这是（控方律师）提到 Bittrex的唯一原因。 法官说：这样问更好。 卡马拉珠律师说：好的，法官大人。我只是注意，有时候证人在回答较长的问题或更普 遍的问题时会有困难，这就是为什么我在一开始试图更具体。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 50 / 230页 法官说：好的。 （回到公开法庭；陪审团在场） 法官说：反对有效。 卡马拉珠先生提问： 问：是否有某个时候商业银行在获取代理关系遇到了困难？ 答：是的，我们一直试图维持不止一个代理银行关系，维持代理关系确实困难。 问：对于波多黎各的银行来说特别困难，对吗？ 答：我相信是的。 问：对于——我撤回这个问题。 问：为何波多黎各的银行在获取代理银行关系方面特别困难？ 答：认知偏见罢了。我不能说我是这方面的专家，但归根到底是人在做决定。我认为这主要是问 题所在。 问：对于主要为加密货币客户提供服务的银行，在获得代理银行关系方面存在类似的问题吗？ 芬克律师说：反对。 法庭：我允许这个问题。 答：是的。 问：为何呢？ 芬克律师说：同样反对。 这是其他银行的问题。 法官说：您在问波多黎各的银行。问题是什么？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 51 / 230页 卡马拉珠律师说：我问了波多黎各的银行。现在我问主要为加密货币客户提供服务的银 行。 法官说：请您只问他自己的银行。 卡马拉珠律师说：好的。 问：商业银行是一家专注于加密货币的银行，对吗？ 答：对。 问：这是您认为商业银行难以获取代理银行关系的因素之一，对吗？ 答：对的。 问：你为什么会这么认为？ 答：因为这是我们向其提出代理申请的银行告诉我们的。 问：顺便问一下，您知道 Sharps Pixley吗？ 答：Sharps Pixley。你能拼一下 Sharps吗？ 问：普通拼法，S-H-A-R-P-S。 答：Pixley怎么拼？ 问：P-I-X-L-E-Y。 答：我不确定我熟悉这个词。 问：您知道 FV 银行，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：FV银行是波多黎各的另一家银行，对吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 52 / 230页 问：它的办公室离商业银行的办公室很近，对吗？ 答：我其实不知道他们的办公室在哪里。 问：好。您在直接问询中作证说，您是通过一个叫 Alex H的人认识 G-Clubs，对吗？ 答：不对。 问：是谁第一次向您介绍了G-Clubs？ 答：其实是美第奇。 因为我们为美第奇处理交易，而美第奇在为 G-Clubs 处理交易。 问：在美第奇做了这个介绍之后，您在家里与 Ana Izquierdo和利玛丽·雷耶斯举行了一次会议， 对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您知道她们是 G-Clubs的高管吗？ 答：是的。 问：为什么这次会议在您家里举行？ 答：那时对我来说很方便。当时我们仍处于与新冠疫情相关的奇怪环境中，在家里见面更方便。 问：您在直接问询中作证说在那次会议上没有提到中国共产党，对吗？ 答：是的，我不记得提到了这事儿。 问：但您也在直接问询中作证说，您与雷耶斯女士和 Izquierdo 女士讨论了有一个志同道合的中 国侨民群体对这些产品感兴趣，您记得吗？ 答：记得。 问：您说的中国侨民是什么意思？ 答：一般来说，我指的是那些现在或以前离开中国旅居他乡的中国公民。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 53 / 230页 问：当您使用“志同道合的人”这个短语时，您是什么意思？ 答：因为中国的政治制度而想要离开的人。 问：当您谈到这些产品时，您指的是 G-Clubs的产品，对吗？ 答：您能再说一遍问题吗？ 问：好的。您描述的这些中国侨民感兴趣的产品是 G-Clubs在推广的产品，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：当您与雷耶斯女士见面时，他们正想更换银行，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他们对美第奇的服务不满意，对吗？ 答：对的。 问：他们最终确实换了银行，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他们有没有向您解释他们为什么不满意美第奇？ 答：他们不喜欢沟通的数量，并且认为那里技术不够好。 问：那商业银行开设了G-Clubs的银行账户后，就有数百万美元流入这些账户，对吗？ 答：我不记得交易的时间线。我相信大部分交易发生在我们与 G-Clubs 建立直接关系之前。 问：这回答合理。 不论是之前还是之后，反正有数百万美元流入了商业银行里的 G-Clubs账 户，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：商业银行如何通过其银行业务赚取收入？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 54 / 230页 答：通常我们通过交易费和利率差赚取收入，因为对于数字资产，银行通常不会支付任何利息。 问：那么如果有美元存放在商业银行的账户中，您能解释一下商业银行如何从中赚钱吗？ 答：我们将这些资金存入与双 A评级银行的短期隔夜资金中，基本上我们获得联邦基金利率。 我不记得当时的确切利率，但自从我们开办银行以来，这个范围从 1%到高达 5.25%。 问：所以账户中的钱越多，银行赚的钱就越多，对吗？ 答：对。 问：所以银行也从G-Clubs的资金流入中赚到了这些收益，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在直接问询中，您被问到关于商业银行对新客户进行尽职调查的问题。记得吗？ 答：嗯嗯。 问：您作证说，您理解这种尽职调查是根据《银行保密法》要求进行的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：尽职调查的一部分是确定最终受益所有人（UBO），对吗？ 答：是的。 问：再说一遍 UBO代表什么？ 答：最终受益所有人。 问：商业银行通常如何确定谁是 UBO？ 答：我们有一个合规团队收集和评估数据。合规团队要求人们对他们拥有公司的百分比和控制权 进行某些声明。根据这些回答，他们进行评估。 问：您在直接问询中作证说，尽职调查过程的另一部分是确定资金来源，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 55 / 230页 答：是的。 问：同样的问题，商业银行通常如何确定潜在客户的资金来源？ 答：这个过程更复杂一些，涉及大量的研究工作，由我的团队负责。我不是这方面的专家。 问：你的银行有一个团队负责这方面的工作吗？ 答：对。 问：在 G-Clubs寻求开设银行账户时，您知道G-Clubs与郭文贵有关系或联系，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您在直接问询中作证说，你对这种联系，特别是郭先生的风险状况和他与中共国政府的历史 有顾虑，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你说的他与中共国政府的历史是什么意思？ 答：我的理解是他被指控犯罪，他逃离了中国，正在寻求庇护或已经在美国获得庇护。 坦率地 说，这信息量对我们来说太多了，难以处理。 问：我没听到最后一部分。 答：信息太多，难以处理。 问：“难以处理”是什么意思？ 答：要确定这些信息是否属实，犯了什么罪或没犯什么罪。 这是一件非常复杂的事情。我们采 取了更保守的立场，认为这是一个我们无法容忍的风险概况。 问：如果郭先生是 G-Clubs的最终受益所有人，这个风险概况会给银行带来麻烦，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：如果G-Clubs的资金来源是郭先生，也会给银行带来麻烦，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 56 / 230页 答：对。 问：所以银行实际上对 G-Clubs进行了尽职调查过，对吗？ 答：对。 问：您没有理由相信这个过程与对其他客户的尽职调查有任何不同，对吗？ 答：对。 问：您不认为银行在对 G-Clubs的调查中有所放松，对吗？ 答：对。 问：尽职调查的结果显示郭先生不是最终受益所有人，对吗？ 答：根据我们的研究结论，对的。 问：同样，对于资金来源的尽职调查，结论是这些资金不是来自郭先生，对吗？ 答：那是真的。 问：您还作证说，同样的情况适用于G Fashion，对吗？ 答：我相信是的。 问：您为 G Fashion开设了账户，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您对 G Fashion及其与郭先生的联系有同样的担忧，对吗？ 答：对。 问：银行对 G Fashion进行了尽职调查，对吗？ 答：对。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 57 / 230页 问：作为尽职调查的结果，银行为 G Fashion开设了账户，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：芬克先生问了您许多问题，如果银行知道郭先生控制 G-Clubs的运营，银行会不会开设账 户，对吗？您记得这些问题吗？ 答：记得。 问：所以您的银行开设 G-Clubs账户时，得出的结论是郭先生没有控制 G-Clubs的运营，对 吗？ 答：对。 问：并且银行确定他没有控制 G Fashion的运营，对吗？ 答：对。 问：坐在这里的您，至今没有看到任何证据表明他控制了G-Clubs的运营，对吗？ 答：对。 问：坐在这里的您，至今没有看到任何证据表明他控制了G-Fashion的运营，对吗？ 答：对。 问：坐在这里的您，至今没有看到任何证据表明他他控制了喜马拉雅交易所的运营，对吗？ 答：对。 问：事实上，在您与余建明先生的所有谈判中，无论是关于收购、贷款、赎回请求，您从未与这 位郭先生进行过交流，对吗？ 答：对。 问：事实上，您从未与郭先生交谈过，对吗？ 答：据我所知，没有。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 58 / 230页 问：坐在这个法庭上是您第一次亲眼见到他，对吗？ 答：对。 问：现在，我想谈谈 Yield Esta。您能提醒我们 Yield Esta是什么吗？首先我说得对吗？ 答：Yield Esta，是的。 问：您能提醒我们它是什么吗？ 答：它是一个基于算法程序的期货交易投资工具。 问：当您说投资工具时，这是否是对冲基金的另一种说法？ 答：我不会将其描述为对冲基金，但它类似。 法官说：卡马拉珠先生，您能拼写一下您所描述的内容吗？ 问：是 Yield Esta。如果我错了请纠正，Y-E-L-D-E-S-T-A。对吗，先生？ 答：是“Yield”这个词加上 Esta。 法官说：请对着麦克风说。 答：是“Yield”这个词加上 Esta。 法官说：继续。 问：您刚才提到它专注于算法交易？ 答：是的。 问：我不会深入讨论细节。那我说，算法交易是一种投资策略，这样合理吗？ 对吗？ 答：对的。 问：这是 Yield Esta 所采用的投资策略，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 59 / 230页 答：是的。 问：当您说它专注于期货交易时，期货只是一种特定的资产类别，对吗？ 答：对。 问：所以 Yield Esta采用了与特定资产类别相关的特定投资策略，对吗？ 答：对。 问：谁设定了 Yield Esta的投资策略？ 答：是我。 问：不是 G-Clubs的那些投资者设定的策略，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：您是一名注册投资顾问吗，先生？ 答：不，我不需要是。 问：我不是在问义务。 当G-Clubs 投资 Yield Esta 时，您向他们提供了一些关于您所谓的“投资 工具”的信息，对吗？ 答：对。 问：他们决定是否要投资，对吗？ 答：对。 问：他们向您提交了认购文件，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：他们给您打了钱，对吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 60 / 230页 问：事实上，他们在被允许在商业银行开设账户之前就给您打了钱，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：我撤回上述问题。一旦 G-Clubs 给您打了钱，如何投资是您的决定，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您确实有向客户提供投资建议的经验，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您之前在一家基金工作过，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在您进入银行业之前？ 答：是的。 问：那家基金的名字是什么？ 答：母岩（Mother Rock）。 问：在 G-Clubs开设账户之后，我们继续讨论 Alex H，Alex H建议您应该见另一位潜在客户， 对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是加密货币交易所喜马拉雅交易所，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我认为您作证说那是在 2021 年夏末或秋初，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以交易所当时还没有开始运营，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 61 / 230页 答：没有。 问：当时还处于开发阶段，对吗？ 答：我们在流程早期没有推进启动交易所的计划。 问：对不起。我可能我的问题让您困惑了。 问：我指的是喜马拉雅交易所在 2021 年夏末还没有开始运营，对吗？ 答：我不这么认为。 问：有多少——再次，我不是在问名字，对您来说拥有一个加密货币交易所作为客户是不寻常的 吗？ 答：不是。 问：所以您有其他的交易所客户，对吗？ 答：随着时间的推移。时间线在所有这些问题中都很重要。 问：公平的。我的意思不是要确定什么。 问：在开始接触交易所之前，Mercantile银行曾经有其他交易所作为客户，这是我的问题？ 答：是的。 问：现在，当您第一次了解到喜马拉雅交易所时，Mercantile银行正经历一些现金紧张，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您一直在努力筹集资金以维持银行的运营，对吗？ 答：对。 问：您告诉潜在投资者您需要现金来维持银行运作，对吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 62 / 230页 问：您接触的其中一个投资者是一个叫 Tingo的公司，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：Tingo是什么？ 答：当时我理解 Tingo是一家在欧洲和非洲进行商品交易的公司，他们有上市的雄心。 问：根据您当时所知，仅仅是您当时所知的。您知道 Tingo是否有任何加密货币业务吗？ 芬克律师说：反对，与我们在边栏讨论的内容有关。 法官说：反对有效。 卡马拉珠律师说：法官大人，我可以简短地在边栏讨论这个问题吗？ 法官说：好的。 （边栏讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 卡马拉珠律师说：所以我问这个问题的唯一原因是因为时间线，我的理解是，他在与 Tingo 讨论交易。然后他遇到了余建明，余建明提出了一笔交易，他选择了余建明的交易，而不 是 Tingo的交易，部分原因是他的银行和交易所在加密货币方面有协同效应。我问到 Tingo的 唯一原因是为了指出他在配对中途改变了方向，选择了更适合他的公司。这就是全部原因。 法官说：我认为已经理解了银行可能在吸引多个客户，或者多个客户可能正在寻求在银 行开户。我不明白为什么您需要特别提到 Tingo。 卡马拉珠律师说：我不是要深入讨论 Tingo——我的观点不是银行有很多不同的追求 者。我的观点实际上是他选择了一个追求者。他有选择，他选择了最符合他利益的追求者。 法官说：您不需要通过比较一个与本案无关的实体来提出这个观点。您可以问他为什么 选择。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 63 / 230页 卡马拉珠律师说：好的。但是如果他的答案是为什么选择，他说，因为 Tingo 没有加密 货币能力而交易所有，我们是否有共识。 法官说：那么你可以继续进行 Tingo 部分。 （回到公开法庭；陪审团在场） 由辩方卡马拉珠律师询问： 问：柯林斯先生，我们刚才在讨论您与 Tingo 讨论潜在交易的事实，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在 2021 年 11 月，您前往伦敦与他们会面，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：同时，您也与余先生会面，对吗？ 芬克律师说：反对。 法官说：反对有效。 问：在 2021 年 11 月，您前往伦敦，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您在那里见了余先生，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您决定与余先生的公司进行商业交易，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：为什么您选择余先生的公司，而不是银行可能有的其他潜在追求者？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 64 / 230页 答：部分原因是我记得他们提高了价格。我认为他们有流动性。我不确定 Tingo的流动性。 Tingo 还在发展，相对于他们的上市雄心，这很有吸引力，但也有一些风险。我会说这些是主要 因素。 问：现在，请稍等一下，我们谈谈您与余先生的会面。您在直接询问中作证说他管理喜马拉雅交 易所，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在这次旅行中，您参观了他在伦敦的办公室？ 答：那是在伦敦的一个郊区，但对。 问：那些办公室占据了一栋楼的几层，对吗？ 答：我不记得上过不止一层楼。 问：您作证说有一个仲裁，对吗？ 答：我们在时间线上处于什么位置？ 问：好吧，您在直接询问中作证说银行对汉密尔顿提起了仲裁，对吗？ 答：对。 问：您在那个仲裁中提交了一份声明，对吗？ 答：我不记得文件的一部分。 问：您记得在那个仲裁中提交了多少份宣誓声明吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：超过一份吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：您在仲裁中作证了吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 65 / 230页 答：我相信我作证了。 问：在仲裁中作证之前，您提交了任何宣誓声明吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：请给证人看一下 DX60551。 问：请滚动浏览一下，可以到第 19页吗？ 答：您认得这个吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是您在仲裁中提交的声明吗？ 答：我相信是。 问：我们可以转到第八页并突出显示第 46段的最后一句话，请自己阅读一下，先生。 法官说：现在是 11点 30分，我们将休息。各位陪审员，请记住您不能在自己之间或与 任何人讨论此案。不要允许任何人在您面前讨论此案。不要阅读、观看或收听任何涉及本审判主 题的来源的任何内容。 先生，您可以走出法庭。不要讨论您的证词。 法庭书记员说：陪审团离场。 法官说：请就座。您可以走出法庭，先生。 （证人暂时被请出） （陪审团未在场） 法官说：我们中午恢复审理之前还有什么事吗？ 卡马拉珠律师说：辩方没有其他问题。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 66 / 230页 芬克律师说：只是为了避免我们恢复时再开一次边栏会议。我认为辩护律师正朝着一个 正确的方向去，要么是刷新他的记忆，要么是质疑他。但是，如果辩方试图引入这份 20页的声 明，我们将反对。我们可以不在边栏讨论这点。看起来我们正朝着一个正确的方向去。但为了高 效，我只想把这个记录在案。 卡马拉珠律师说：我不打算尝试承认声明。我打算用它来刷新他的记忆。我可能会质疑 他。如果用来质疑，我会做的是，如果法庭认为合理，我只会要求承认声明中的特定陈述，并且 只向陪审团公布该陈述。然后我们可以在稍后准备一个经过编辑的版本，以便陪审团审阅。这是 我的建议。 法官说：这似乎是合适的。 芬克律师说：谢谢。 卡马拉珠律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 （休息） （陪审团未在场） 法官说：请让证人回到证人席，并请陪审员进场。 （陪审团在场） 法官说：请就座。请记住您仍然在宣誓状态下。 证人说：是的，女士。 法官说：您可以继续您的交叉询问。 卡马拉珠律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 问：我想我们离开时，您正在查看屏幕上的一份文件。我只是想引导您——为了帮助您定位，我 很乐意再次向您展示第一页，但否则，我会引导您看这一段的最后一句话。 答：我的记忆是这是一份仲裁中产生的文件。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 67 / 230页 问：好。这份文件是否有助于刷新您的记忆，即余先生在伦敦的办公室是否占据了一栋办公楼的 几层？ 答：是的。我不确定我是否去过我所在楼层以外的楼层。 问：好。我的问题只是，业务是否有多层，对吗？ 答：根据这份声明，是的。 问：您的印象是这些业务雇佣了很多人，对吗？ 答：嗯。 问：超过一百人？ 答：我的记忆是大约 200 人。 卡马拉珠律师说：我们现在可以暂时放下这个。谢谢。 问：我认为在我们查看那份文件之前，您正在解释为什么选择与汉密尔顿和喜马拉雅交易所公司 进行收购，对吗？ 法官说：卡马拉珠先生，请对着麦克风说。 卡马拉珠律师说：对不起，法官大人�� 问：其中一个原因是您认为银行和交易所之间存在协同效应，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您告诉您的股东们这个，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好。您能解释一下您认为银行和交易所之间的协同效应是什么吗？ 答：我们一直计划将加密货币交易所作为我们提供的一部分，但尚未启动，因此我们有可能与一 家拥有我们大部分股份的数字资产交易所紧密合作。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 68 / 230页 问：鉴于您之前对启动交易所的兴趣，您对如何改进喜马拉雅交易所有一些想法，对吗？ 答：是的。我们在那条路上没有走得太远。 问：当然。但您提出了一些初步建议，对吗？ 答：我不记得具体是什么建议，但似乎合理。 问：好。您知道喜马拉雅交易所启动时只列出了两个代币，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是喜币和喜美元，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以您认为它应该列出更多的代币是合理的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您与 David Fallon 讨论过一些这些建议，对吗？ 答：我可能会与他讨论。 问：David Fallon是谁？ 答：我最好将 Dave 描述为公司的首席交易员。 问：好。为了清楚起见，当您说“公司”时，您指的是哪家公司？ 答：他像他们的许多员工一样，为许多公司工作。 问：他在汉密尔顿工作吗？ 答：是的。 问：他在交易所工作吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 69 / 230页 答：是的。 问：他在余先生的几家公司中扮演了角色，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我相信您作证说，汉密尔顿是一家由余先生控制的对冲基金，对吗？ 答：控制这个词更合适。 问：好。那余先生控制它，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在与交易所达成协议之前，您对交易所进行了尽职调查，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：交易所也对银行进行了尽职调查，对吗？ 答：我相信是的。 问：作为相互尽职调查的一部分，您前往伦敦，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您在余先生的办公室里待了几周，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：在银行方面，您是唯一参与尽职调查的人吗？ 答：不是。 问：好。还有谁参与了？ 答：我的合规团队、法律团队和首席财务官。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 70 / 230页 问：在交易所方面，您在尽职调查中与谁互动？ 答：Priya Patel、Georgette、David，还有一个叫哈里森的年轻分析师。 问：作为尽职调查的一部分，您没有与郭先生交谈，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：您没有与王雁平交谈，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：作为尽职调查的一部分，有进行独立估值，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是银行在投资后的估值，对吗？ 答：对。 问：我不打算问具体细节，但您提供了关于银行的信息用于那个估值，对吗？ 答：我们提供了与银行相关的信息用于那个估值。 问：对。对不起，我的问题不清楚。具体来说，为了让记录清晰，独立估值中的银行信息是来自 您，而不是余先生的公司，对吗？ 答：我相信是的。 问：您认为这笔交易可以为银行创造显著的价值，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：既有短期的因为您的现金流紧张，对吗？ 答：对。 问：也有长期的，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 71 / 230页 答：我想回到时间线上，因为您把很多信息混在一起，仿佛它们都是同时发生的。 余先生的第一次投资发生在我们进行任何估值分析之前很久。我记得估值开始于二月或三月，我 不记得我们具体什么时候收到报告；而更大金额的投资讨论是在他首次投资之后发生的。所以这 是对您的问题的回答。 问：好。为了清楚起见，您对银行有长期计划，对吗？ 答：请定义“长期”。 问：好。您有帮助银行增长的计划，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这些计划不会在您签署协议的第二天发生，对吗？ 答：不会。 问：好。您认为实现银行规模增长需要多长时间？ 答：几年。 问：好。这就是我所说的长期，好吗？ 答：好。 问：所以一些余先生要投资的钱是为了长期增长，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您认为这可以大大增加银行的价值，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：事实上，您曾告诉余先生，您认为银行的价值可能达到十亿美元，对吗？ 芬克律师说：反对。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 72 / 230页 法官说：反对无效。您可以回答。 答：我不记得有过那样的具体对话，但确实有一种情形可能会达到那个价值。 问：好。我认为您刚才的回答中提到，余先生公司的总投资款分成几部分，对吗？ 答：三部分。 问：好。您能解释一下这三部分是什么吗？ 答：第一次投资需要很少的批准，且不需要监管机构的批准。我认为金额大约是 270万到 300 万美元。 第二次是在 9 月 16 日的收盘，额外的 4950万美元，预计大约六个月后，我们会再注资 5000 万美元。 法官说：您说“我们会注资”是什么意思？ 证人说：对不起。在 9 月 16 日之后，我们银行的高管将为余先生和汉密尔顿企业工 作，所以我用“我们”指的是集体，但这将是汉密尔顿的钱。 法官说：继续。 由辩方卡马拉珠律师提问： 问：后面提到的两部分——不是初次投资，不需要 OCIF批准的那部分，而是后来的两部分—— 我们清楚了吗？ 答：清楚。 问：这些投资都是依据单独的协议进行的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：但这两部分的协议都是在 2022 年 9 月 16 日签署的，对吗？ 答：哪些协议具体是在 9 月 16 日签署的？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 73 / 230页 问：对不起。我指的是与第二部分和第三部分相关的协议，对吗？ 答：我不记得我们在 9 月 16 日的收盘时是否记录了第三部分的协议。 问：那么，2022 年 9 月 16 日的交易中签署了哪些协议？那些协议是什么？ 答：许多协议。确实不少。 问：你记得哪些协议吗？ 答：我不能一一列举出来。 问：好。这些协议都是根据——好吧，撤回。根据 2022 年 9 月 16 日签署的协议，您期望汉密 尔顿会给您汇款，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：所以至少有一份协议是在 2022 年 9 月 16 日签署的，在您看来，这份协议义务汉密尔顿向 您汇款，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：好。那么您认为汉密尔顿应该给您汇多少钱？ 答：4950万美元。 问：好。所以有一份协议是在 2022 年 9 月 16 日签署的，您认为这份协议义务汉密尔顿给您大 约 4900万美元，对吗？ 答：是的。 法官说：这笔钱什么时候到期？ 证人说：实际上是 16号到期。 问：好。您在直接询问时作证说，您实际上在 16号没有收到这笔钱，对吗？ 答：对。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 74 / 230页 问：因为那是星期五的下午，所以您也没期望能收到，对吗？ 答：有理由假设汇款过程可能比预期的慢，但也有可能——也有可能已经清算。那时候还不是太 晚。 问：明白。但这并没有让您感到震惊。 答：这没有让我们震惊。 问：但是您已经收到通知，说汉密尔顿实际上已经尝试发出汇款了，对吗？ 口译员说：律师，请说慢点。 问：对不起。到那时为止，您已经收到通知，说汉密尔顿已经尝试发出汇款了，对吗？ 答：我们收到了一份发给汉密尔顿的汇款指令和收据的副本。 问：好的。您在直接询问时作证说，这笔钱之所以没有到达 Mercantile，是因为我认为您说是美 国法警扣押了它，对吗？ 答：是的，先生。 问：现在，在 16号钱没有到账后，您继续与汉密尔顿沟通汇款的事，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：因为您仍然认为这笔交易有可能继续进行，对吗？ 答：我们直到下周四，也就是大约 22号或 23号，才知道发生了什么。 问：好。您在与汉密尔顿的跟进中，因为您想看看是否有办法让交易继续进行，对吗？ 答：我们想收到那 4950万美元。 问：是的。根据汉密尔顿将要做的投资，对吗？ 答：对。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 75 / 230页 问：您作证说，这笔汇款应该来自 Silvergate银行账户，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您认为——让我问这个。撤回。 这笔交易有 OCIF 的批准，对吗？ 答：对。 问：OCIF 的批准是否设定了交易必须完成的最后期限？ 答：是的。 问：截止日期是什么时候？ 答：9 月 16 日。 问：好。那么您是否认为根据 OCIF 的批准，当钱在 16号没有到账时，交易就死掉了—— 答：不。 问：好。为了明确问题，让我问清楚—— 答：对不起。 问：没关系。当钱在 16号没有到账时，在您看来，这是否会导致根据 OCIF 的批准交易失败？ 答：不。 问：好。所以即使错过了 OCIF 的最后期限，交易仍然可以继续进行，对吗？ 答：我们最初的看法是，如果仅仅是文书错误，OCIF会认为在周一或周二收到的钱是足够的， 但这最终不是延迟的原因。 问：对。但实质上，如果由于一个可以解释的错误而错过了几天的截止日期，您认为 OCIF会放 过它，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 76 / 230页 答：我不会用那种术语，但—— 问：让它通过。 答：他们会理解的。 问：公平。那时有一些紧迫感需要解决这个情况，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这就是为什么您联系了 Silvergate的首席执行官，对吗？ 答：对。 问：您想推动这个进程，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：因为越快解决越好，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：因为某个时候——您永远不知道——OCIF 的耐心可能会耗尽，对吗？ 答：我认为这是一个公平的猜测。 问：现在，汉密尔顿告知您，法警扣押了这些资金，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：Silvergate银行不会给您那方面的信息，对吗？ 答：对。 问：然后您与余先生进行了关于为交易筹集资金的潜在选择的另一次讨论，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 77 / 230页 问：您不记得与他通电话讨论其他选择吗？ 答：不记得了。 问：好的。那么联系 Silvergate是您认为他们最后的选择，对吗？ 答：一旦我们了解到资金被美国政府扣押后，我们并不认为——我们希望能与我们的监管机构完 成交易，因为资金被扣押必须有正当理由。 问：对不起，先生。我不明白我们想完成交易和资金被扣押必须有正当理由之间的联系。您能解 释一下吗？ 答：直到——直到我们了解到钱发生了什么，大约是在 22 日星期四，我们才知道钱发生了什 么。如果只是一个文书问题，那么我相信 OCIF会接受交易并让我们继续进行。但事实并非如 此。它被美国政府扣押了，扣押资金有一些要求——我不是律师，我无法描述这些要求是什么， 但有一些合法性要求，我相信必须得到法院的批准。因此，从 BSA 和我们与监管机构的关系的 角度来看，期望交易最终会与他或任何其他参与他组织的人——他是指余建明——完成是不合理 的。 问：您告诉余先生了吗？ 答：我不确定我是否说了。 问：现在，您曾经与 OCIF 的专员亲自交谈过，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您有没有打电话给专员说，嘿，这笔钱被扣押了，我们要取消交易？ 答：那很不像我会做的事情，所以我不认为我做了。 问：好的。您有没有指示您的律师写信给 OCIF 说，嘿，钱被扣押了，我们要取消交易？ 答：这很可能是我们如何沟通的，或者我们的律师代表我们打电话。 问：好的，但您不确定，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 78 / 230页 答：我不记得了。 问：您在仲裁程序中作证，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那次作证是宣誓过的，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：就像您今天在宣誓作证一样，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您记得在作证时被问到，“您是否记得与余建明通过WhatsApp进行的对话，他试图将自己 的 HDO兑换成现金以完成这���交易？”并回答“我记得有过这样的对话，是的”吗？ 芬克律师说：反对。这错误地描述了辩护律师试图进行的质证。这不是证人所作的证 词。 法官说：反对成立。 问：好的。您是否通过WhatsApp与余建明讨论过试图将他的 HDO兑换成现金以资助这笔交 易？ 答：我们在那段时间进行了很多WhatsApp对话。讨论这个问题是合理的。我不记得具体细 节。 问：好的。您不记得了。 答：细节不记得了。 卡马拉珠律师说：好的。那我想给证人看一下——我只想让您自己读一下，好吗？为了 记录，我展示的是标有 Bates 号码Mercantile DOJ0078835的文件。 问：好的，先生，请您自己阅读 13 到 17 行。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 79 / 230页 答：您能把放大部分拿掉吗？对不起。是的。谢谢。 好的。 问：这是否刷新了您对是否与余先生通过WhatsApp讨论过他试图将 HDO兑换成现金以资助交 易的记忆？ 答：是的。 卡马拉珠律师说：好的。现在我们可以拿掉这个，给证人和各方展示标为 DX 60556 的 文件。 问：请看您的屏幕。您看到了吗？ 答：是的，我看到了。 问：好的。这些是您从余先生那里收到的WhatsApp消息，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您在 2022 年 9 月 23 日凌晨 2:01收到这些消息，对吗？ 答：是的，时间戳不清楚是美国时间还是我当时在的爱尔兰时间。 问：好的，但至少文件上显示的时间是凌晨 2:01？ 答：是的，上面是这么写的。 问：对。这些消息的主题是关于兑换资金，对吗？ 答：是的。 卡马拉珠律师说：好的，辩护方提交 DX 60556，法官大人。 法官说：有异议吗？ 芬克律师说：没有异议。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 80 / 230页 法官说：准许。 （被告的证物 60556 被接纳为证据） 卡马拉珠律师说：好的。我们可以展示这个，请。 我们能否实际上把已经作为证据的 GX MER1205也展示出来。 卡马拉珠律师说：好的。您能在屏幕上看到两个文件吗？ 证人说：是的。以 1205结尾的那个只是一个标题。 问：我会翻到下一页，但—— 卡马拉珠律师说：好的。让我们翻到 1205的第一页。 问：好的。您看到顶部的两份文件，都显示了“消息按时间顺序排列”吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。在左边的文件中，您看到括号里的内容吗？ 答：“时间显示为 GMT + 00。” 问：好的。然后在右边的文件中，您看到相同的信息吗？ 答：是的。 问：好的。所以您同意这两份文件反映的是相同的时区，对吗？ 答：我同意文件上是这么写的。 问：好的，公平。这两个证据都反映了这一点，对吗？ 答：文件上是这么写的。 问：好的。所以左边的文件 DX 60556 显示这些消息是在右边的文件之前发送的，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 81 / 230页 答：是的，是的。 问：好的。您在直接询问中作证说，余先生起初没有告诉您这次兑换是为了谁，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：现在在左边的消息中，在凌晨 2:01，您可以向陪审团读一下吗？ 答：它们都是凌晨 2:01 的消息。 问：让我们从上面的那条开始。 答：“嗨，如前所述，我的公司希望兑换一些资金，以便我们可以继续支持您的银行和其他实体 的运营。” 问：然后他继续说什么？ 答：“早上会给您发指令。” 问：好的。然后在政府证物 1205中，他给您发送了指令，对吗？ 答：我看不见。哦。 卡马拉珠律师说：你可以把 1205放在屏幕上。你可以把另一个拿下来。 证人说：我们谈到我与 Mahsud的会面，我们谈到 FV银行，他提到他正在进行正常的 客户兑换。再往下滚动一些，谢谢。 我提到我正在与我的律师通话。他提到 ACA 的文件。 我需要再往下看吗？ 问：政府证物 MER1205 反映了余先生在 2022 年 9 月 23 日发送给您的唯一的兑换请求，对 吗？ 答：对。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 82 / 230页 问：好的。在我们刚才看的证物 DX 60556中，有早晨稍早的WhatsApp 聊天记录，他说他会 给您发送兑换指令，对吗？ 答：对。 问：所以这些指令是指在政府证物 1205中提到的兑换，对吗？ 答：我不认为这两件事是相关的。 问：好的。那他在当天早上是否给您发送了其他任何兑换指令？ 答：为了明确，余建明和我从未谈到过他在这个时刻之后使用资金投资我们的银行。他在凌晨 2:01发了一条消息，我没有回复，然后后来，他通过 ACA Capital单独发送了一份兑换请求。 问：好的。那么我的问题是：他在 2022 年 9 月 23 日早上是否给您发送了其他任何兑换请求？ 芬克律师说：问过并答过了。 法官说：维持反对。 卡马拉珠律师说：那么我将请求删除他的最后一个答案，认为其不相关。 法官说：答案被删除。 问：那我再试一次这个问题。您—— 法官说：我已经维持了问过并答过的反对。 卡马拉珠律师说：对不起，法官大人。我以为一旦删除，我可以再问一次。好吧。 问：您在 2022 年 9 月 23 日早上收到了多少个兑换请求？ 答：我相信只有一个。 问：如果我们可以滚动到这个证物的第三页。您看到余先生晚上 8:29发来的消息吗？ 对不起，回去。这是他晚上 8:29发来的第二条消息。您看到了吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 83 / 230页 答：“会打电话告诉你如何完成你的银行交易。” 问：对。那时您和余先生只有一笔银行交易，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那就是收购Mercantile，对吗？ 答：对。 问：在政府证物 MER1205中，您没有对余先生说，嘿，余建明，我们不能进行兑换请求，因为 钱被冻结了，对吗？ 答：我不记得说过那样的话。 问：您也没有说过类似的话，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：您从未向他传达过您对扣押影响这次兑换请求的担忧，对吗？ 答：一旦我得知扣押的事情，我就在听取情况。 问：好的。所以您没有向他传达，对吗？ 答：我不记得说过那样的话。 问：您说您在听取情况。您在听取情况是因为您预期要开始仲裁，对吗？ 答：我们只是在试图理清发生了什么。 问：好的。但您确实开始了仲裁，对吗？ 答：对。 问：您是在得知司法部扣押了资金后开始的仲裁，对吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 84 / 230页 问：事实上，您在得知这一事实后很快就开始了仲裁，对吗？ 答：是的 问：几天之内。对吗？ 答：我不知道具体的时间，但确实很快。 问：那么 2022 年 9 月 30 日，您开始了仲裁，对吗？ 答：差不多。 问：司法部扣押了资金，对吗？ 答：是汇款。 问：扣押了汇款。您正在起诉这些资金，对吗？ 答：对。 问：这就是您所主张的损害赔偿，对吗？ 答：对。 问：如果司法部扣押了这些资金，汉密尔顿如何向您支付这些钱？ 芬克律师说：反对。 法官说：维持反对。 问：好的。您认为汉密尔顿会如何支付这笔钱？ 芬克律师说：反对。 法官说：维持反对。 问：好的。为什么在知道司法部扣押了资金的情况下，您还提起仲裁要求支付汇款？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 85 / 230页 芬克律师说：反对。 法官说：维持反对。他并没有作证说他在寻求汇款。 卡马拉珠律师说：他确实作证了，法官大人。 法官说：不。 问：好的。让我换一种方式问：为什么您提起仲裁，主张汉密尔顿未能向您发送汇款造成的损害 赔偿？ 答：我们为什么要这样做？ 问：嗯。 答：因为我有责任保护银行的资产。 问：您认为汉密尔顿还有其他资金可以用来支付给您吗？ 芬克律师说：反对。 法官说：您可以回答。 答：我认为这对分析没有那么重要，鉴于我们有义务保护我们的法律权益。 问：所以您在仲裁中花了钱，对吗？ 答：我认为这是保密和特权的。 问：您支付了律师费，对吗，先生？ 答：是的，所以这是特权的，我相信。 问：好吧，法官大人就在那儿。我并没有问您任何沟通内容。我只是说您支付了律师费。 法官说：所以您与律师谈话的内容是特权的，但支付的事实不是特权的。 证人说：我没有支付费用。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 86 / 230页 问：对不起。我只是想确认一下。您没有支付？ 答：我们没有。我们采取了应急安排。可能有一些小的杂费是我们支付的。 问：好的。在提起仲裁之前，您可以看到汉密尔顿在 Mercantile的银行账户，对吗？ 答：对。 问：好的。这些账户里有钱，对吗？ 答：对。 问：数百万美元，对吗？ 答：对。 问：还有喜联储的账户，对吗？ 答：对。 问：那些账户里也有数百万美元，对吗？ 答：对。 问：好的。您是否曾要求余先生使用在 Mercantile银行的任何资金来资助这笔交易？ 答：当时，当我们得知政府查封的消息后，我们就很清楚，监管机构不会支持完成这笔交易，我 也不认为我们可以建议这会通过 BSA 的标准。 问：在您得知扣押之前呢？ 答：在得知之前？问题是什么？ 问：在您得知扣押之前，您有没有去找余先生并说，为什么不直接使用已经在银行里的钱呢？ 答：没有。 问：截至 2022 年 9 月 16 日，可以说 Mercantile银行有超过 3亿美元的存款，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 87 / 230页 答：我们有很多钱。我不记得确切的数字。 问：好的。数亿美金？ 答：是的。 问：好的。这些钱大部分来自喜马拉雅交易所或汉密尔顿，对吗？ 答：我相信是的。 问：超过 80%，对吗？ 答：这数额是相当大的。 问：好的。同样是数亿美金，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：这些数亿美金中，有一大部分是用于喜马拉雅交易所客户的赎回，对吗？ 芬克律师说：反对，基础不明。 法官说：您可以回答。 答：他们与我们的合规部门沟通了这些资金的性质。我不相信他们向我们传达了这些资金未来的 用途。 问：好的。我们之前看了余先生的赎回请求—— 答：是的。 问：——那是要从 Mercantile赎回资金—— 答：不对。 问：好吧，Mercantile被要求发送一笔汇款，对吗？ 答：是的，但赎回是在 ACA Capital和汉密尔顿交易所之间进行的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 88 / 230页 问：明白。但从 Mercantile的角度来看，这次赎回的最终结果是汇出资金，对吗？ 答：我们收到了汇款指令，指示我们汇出与 ACA Capital和汉密尔顿交易所——对不起——喜马 拉雅交易所的赎回有关的资金。 问：好的。您没有兑现那个赎回请求，对吗？ 答：我们没有。 问：但是如果您兑现了—— 答：好吧，我反对称其为赎回。从我们的角度来看，这不是赎回请求，而只是一个汇款请求。我 没有兑现汇款请求。 问：好的。那我们用这个术语。 答：好的。 问：汇款请求。我们只是确保明确一点。在您看来，交易所内部发生了一次赎回事件，对吗？ 答：嗯，是的。 问：好的。然后作为那个请求的结果，您的银行会从银行的一个特定账户汇出资金，对吗？ 答：对。 问：为此目的指定了一个账户，对吗？ 答：对。 问：那个账户不是——撤回。那个账户不限于仅处理与余先生或其公司的赎回请求，对吗？ 答：我不明白你说的“限于”是什么意思。账户是喜马拉雅交易所的名义，赎回的资金属于喜马拉 雅交易所。他们对资金有独占权，所以我不明白你说的指定或——很简单。 问：我的意思是，如果除了余先生之外的另一个喜马拉雅交易所客户想要赎回然后收到汇款，这 些钱会来自同一个账户。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 89 / 230页 芬克律师说：要求猜测。 法官说：维持反对。 问：好的。在余先生提出请求之前，Mercantile银行有没有基于喜马拉雅交易所的赎回请求汇出 过任何资金？ 答：我不记得了。 问：好的。那是您个人第一次接触到这样的请求吗？ 答：我个人？是的。 问：好的。您作证说 FV银行是波多黎各的另一家银行，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您得知司法部也扣押了存放在 FV银行的交易所资金，对吗？ 答：这是我们根据传闻的理解。 问：对不起，这是根据传闻？ 答：是的。 问：好的。那么余先生也告诉过您，对吗？ 答：后来是的。 问：那么在 2022 年 9 月 23 日，您们都知道这个事实了，对吗？ 答：我不记得他具体告诉我们的日期，但他们确实传达了这个信息。 卡马拉珠律师说：好的。我们可以调出 GX MER1205吗？ 口译员说：法官大人，您可以请双方慢一些吗。谢谢。 法官说：好的，请慢一点。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 90 / 230页 卡马拉珠律师说：法官大人，我会慢下来的，对不起。 问：好的。请您读一下第三条信息。 答：“他只知道 FV银行被冻结了。他不知道资金或交易问题。” 问：好的。那是余先生在和您说话，对吗？ 答：是的，在 9 月 23 日。 问：好的。您理解他说“他只知道 FV银行被冻结了”是什么意思，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是指司法部在 FV银行的扣押，对吗？ 答：好吧，它说被冻结了，所以可能是冻结，这并不清楚。 法官说：他指的是谁？ 证人说：Mahsud，是首席财务官。如果你往上看，我说我在 11点和 Mahsud说话，我 问他是否知道发生了什么，他说“他只知道 FV银行被冻结了”。 问：在这条消息发送时，司法部还没有扣押Mercantile银行的任何资金，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：那要晚得多，对吗？ 答：对。 问：但基于 FV银行的扣押，您担心司法部会来扣押Mercantile的资金，对吗？ 答：对不起，您能再问一遍吗？ 问：当然。 卡马拉珠律师说：对不起， 但请您回读一下，好吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 91 / 230页 法官说：请继续。 （记录读取） 答：我们只是不知道。如果你说我有担忧，我们对很多事情都有担忧。 问：那是其中之一。 答：是的。 问：所以您通知交易所要收取合规费，对吗？ 答：我们没有去找他们。我们通知他们。 问：好的。您告诉他们—— 答：是的。 问：——我们要收取合规费？ 答：法律和合规。 问：好的。法律和合规费将是喜联储和汉密尔顿账户中资金的 10%，对吗？ 答：听起来差不多。 问：好的。然后交易所反对了，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您还是拿了钱，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：大约是 2800万美元，对吗？ 答：听起来差不多。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 92 / 230页 问：您从客户银行账户中拿出了这笔钱，对吗？ 答：不。 问：您把它放到了一个单独的限制账户中，对吗？ 答：我没有从客户银行账户中拿出这笔钱。 问：好的。那么我们讨论的这 2800万美元，仍然在汉密尔顿的账户中吗？ 答：哦，对不起。我误解了你的意思。 问：好的。对不起。可能是个令人困惑的问题。请继续。 答：我们从喜联储和汉密尔顿相关的账户中拿出了这笔钱，并把它放在一边。 问：好的。放到了一个单独的账户，对吗？ 答：我不记得具体的结构，但听起来是这样的。 问：但这个账户不是汉密尔顿或喜马拉雅交易所的名义，对吗？ 答：对，对。 问：因此——撤回。 问：您这么做是因为担心司法部会扣押Mercantile的汉密尔顿和交易所账户，这样您就无法拿 到那 2800万美元，对吗？ 答：我有我的内部和外部法律顾问的法律意见—— 问：不，不。我只是想—— 答：让我回答问题。 问：不，不。我只是想确保你没有透露任何实际的——
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 93 / 230页 答：这就是为什么我要标记它。大部分是他们处理的，所以很难让我同意你话语的描述，但这不 是不合理的。 问：好的。就像我说的，不询问你与律师的沟通，只问你脑子里的情况。那对您来说是合理的， 对吗？ 答：这是一个合理的方法。 问：这是您采取的方法。 答：我相信这是我们采取的方法。 问：司法部要求您归还那笔钱，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您归还了其中一部分，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：但不是全部，对吗，先生？ 答：不。 问：Mercantile保留了大约 500万美元，对吗？ 答：我不记得确切的数字，但大概是对的。 问：好的。我不要求您提供确切的美元数，但大概是在那个范围内，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：Mercantile银行花了这笔钱，对吗？ 答：我们把钱交给律师来处理—— 问：对不起，我没听懂。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 94 / 230页 答：我们把钱交给律师，因为我们觉得需要法律代理来应对各种噪音。 问：好的。所以您用这笔钱雇佣了律师，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您用这笔钱支付了银行的法律费用，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那笔钱来自喜马拉雅交易所的客户，对吗？ 答：不是。 问：那么，您的理解是，这笔钱的最终来源不是喜马拉雅交易所的客户，是吗？这是您的证词 吗？ 芬克律师说：问过并回答过了。 法官说：维持。 问：您最初收取法律和合规费用，是因为您认为您对政府有某些义务，对吗？ 答：我们需要保护自己，因为我们不知道发生了什么。 问：对。您的防御义务和您对政府的义务都要求您回应信息请求，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：您希望能够支付律师费用来处理这些，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：但您不想用自己的钱来支付这些，对吗？ 答：我不明白您的意思。 问：好吧，您不想用银行已经有的钱来支付这些，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 95 / 230页 答：我们认为我们在合同上不需要这样做。我们可以使用我们从账户中扣除的费用，因为合同是 这样规定的。 问：好的。您提到的那个合同规定您可以为合规和法律费用扣除钱，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：但您没有把这笔钱全部用于这些，对吗？ 答：我不确定。 问：好吧，您没有用这笔钱买 F1赞助，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：您不记得在仲裁中对此作证吗？ 答：我不相信我们用法律和合规费用买了 F1赞助。我们确实买了一个 F1学院的赞助，这比 F1 赞助便宜得多。那是第一届女子 F1车手联赛。 问：好的。银行有自己的钱可以花在学院赞助上吗？ 答：有的。 问：那么银行有钱花在学院赞助上，但没有钱支付自己的法律费用，是吗？ 芬克律师说：反对。 法官说：驳回反对。您可以回答。 答：我们只是按照合同权利行事。 问：您的合同权利允许您控制欺诈所得吗？ 答：这是一个需要律师回答的问题。 问：我只是问您的理解，先生。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 96 / 230页 答：我对此没有理解。 问：那从来没有想到过吗。 答：我认为我们已经请律师审查过，他们做出了回应。 问：好的。所以即使您从这些账户中转移了资金，然后用于公司开支，司法部也从未暗示他们会 指控您或Mercantile的任何人犯罪，对吗？ 答：他们从未说过他们不会指控我犯罪。 问：我问的是另一个问题，先生。 答：那个问题是什么？ 问：他们有没有说过要指控您？ 答：没有。 问：这些人在这里从未对您说过那样的话，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：您在这里，您与他们没有关于这方面的任何协议，对吗？ 答：请具体点。我不明白您的意思。 问：您听说过不起诉协议吗？ 答：没有。这是我第一次参加刑事审判。 问：好的。那么可以说，您没有与他们签订这样的协议，对吗？ 答：我没有不起诉协议。 卡马拉珠律师说：目前没有进一步的问题，法官大人。 法官说：重新询问？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 97 / 230页 重新询问 由检方芬克律师提问： 问：Collins先生，您知道郭文贵对喜马拉雅交易所客户做出了哪些声明吗？ 答：除了我看到的一些营销材料，我不确定是否可以称之为声明，除此之外，我真的不了解。 问：您会说中文吗？ 答：不会。 问：您知道喜币锁定期是什么吗？ 答：不知道。 问：您知道 AIAI是什么吗？ 答：不知道。 问：A10呢，您知道那是什么吗？ 答：A10。我感觉我在某些我看过的东西中见过这个，但我真的不知道它是什么。 芬克律师说：如果我们能调出 MER8，谢谢。 问：您在反向质询中被问到关于余建明试图从 Mercantile银行赎回或汇款的问题，对吗，先 生？ 答：是的。 问：现在请您告诉我们，余建明想把那笔赎回或汇款转到哪里。 答：到一个叫 First Abu Dhabi 银行的银行，总部在阿联酋。 问：他建议将其转到 Silvergate 银行吗？ 答：没有。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 98 / 230页 问：他建议将其转到 Mercantile 银行吗？ 答：没有。 问：在反向质询中您被问到您在凌晨 2点收到的信息和其他信息之间是否有区别。您认为这两 者之间有区别吗？ 答：非常有区别。 问：您能解释一下为什么吗？ 答：如我所说，我没有回应之前的信息。我们从未讨论过他们如何继续与银行进行交易，因为我 们很清楚监管机构不会批准这笔交易，我也不觉得和一个似乎是严重刑事起诉目标的合作伙伴继 续合作是舒服的。 问：在反向质询中您被问到关于 Mercantile的尽职调查，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我相信您说尽职调查过程的一部分是依赖客户的声明？ 答：是的。 问：这是什么意思？ 答：我们——我们要求所有客户做出某些声明，一些是简单的，比如谁是业务的最终受 益所有人（UBO），我们部分依赖他们的声明来了解现实情况。 问：那么喜马拉雅交易所通过尽职调查部分依赖于交易所员工的声明，这样说对吗？ 答：非常对。 问：G-Clubs通过尽职调查部分依赖于G-Clubs员工的声明，这样说对吗？ 答：非常对。 问：G Fashion 也是这样，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 99 / 230页 答：是的。 问：您被问到关于您可能见过的有关喜马拉雅交易所和其最终受益所有人的证据。您记得这些问 题吗？ 答：依稀记得。 问：您参加了这次审判吗？ 答：没有。 问：您知道这次审判的其他证人是谁吗？ 答：不知道。 问：您知道已作证的内容或已引入的证据吗？ 答：不知道。 问：Mercantile银行的尽职调查过程中是否包含获取郭文贵、王雁平和余建明关于资金使用的会 议录音？ 卡马拉珠律师说：反对问题形式。 法官说：驳回反对。您可以回答。 答：不。 问：您听过余建明、郭文贵和王雁平讨论G-Clubs 资金使用的录音吗？ 答：没有。 卡马拉珠律师说：同样反对。 法官说：驳回。 问：可以说这些录音不是 Mercantile尽职调查过程的一部分，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 100 / 230页 答：我不确定我们知道它们的存在。 问：你知道海瑟姆·哈立德是谁吗？ 答：不知道。 问："志同道合的人"这个词是你提出来的还是 Ana Izquierdo提出来的？ 答：老实说，我不太记得是谁先说的这个词。 芬克律师说：请稍等一下。 问：你曾经买过喜币吗？ 答：没有。 问：你曾经买过喜美元吗？ 答：没有。 芬克律师说：没有其他问题了。 法官说：再交叉询问？ 卡马拉珠律师说：不用了，谢谢，法官大人。 法官说：你可以退席了。 （证人退席）
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 101 / 230页 法官说：检方可以叫下一个证人了。 莫里律师说：谢谢，法官大人。检方叫 Christine Frosini。 法庭书记员说：请举起右手。 （证人宣誓） 法庭书记员说：请坐下。 法官说：请说出你的名字并拼写一下。 证人说：Christine Frosini。C-H-R-I-S-T-I-N-E，Frosini，F-R-O-S-I-N-I。 法官说：你可以开始问了。 Christine Frosini， 由政府作为证人传唤， 宣誓后作如下证词： 直接询问 由莫里律师进行询问： 问：下午好，Frosini 女士。 答：下午好。 问：你是做什么工作的？ 答：我是 Sotheby's的经纪人助理。 问：请您对着麦克风发言。请你把麦克风拉向你的方向。 答：我是 Prominent Properties Sotheby's 的经纪人助理。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 102 / 230页 问：Prominent Properties Sotheby's是什么？ 答：一家房地产公司。 问：你做房地产经纪人多久了？ 答：22 年。 问：你买卖什么类型的房产？ 答：主要是住宅。 问：你的客户类型有哪些？ 答：各种各样的。我有首次购房者，重复购房者，各种不同层次的客户。 问：你在哪个地区工作？ 答：Bergen县。 问：在哪个州？ 答：新泽西州。 问：你参与了位于新泽西州 Mahwah的 675 Ramapo Valley Drive房产的购买吗？ 答：是的。 问：你知道这处房产叫什么名字？ 答：Crocker Mansion。 莫里律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果可以的话，请为证人调出政府证物 134。 问：Frosini 女士，你认得政府证物 134 吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 103 / 230页 问：这是什么？ 答：新泽西州 Mahwah的 Crocker Mansion。 莫里律师说：法官大人，政府提交政府证物 134。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我可以问一个问题吗？ 法官说：可以。 施洛夫律师说：谢谢。 初步询问 由辩方施洛夫律师进行询问： 问：你没有拍这张照片，对吗，Frosini 女士？ 答：没有。 施洛夫律师说：非常感谢。没有异议，法官大人。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物 134 被接纳为证据） 莫里律师说：如果可以的话，请公开展示。 问：Frosini 女士，请你向陪审团描述一下，我们在这张照片中看到的 Crocker Mansion的哪一 部分？ 答：这是庄园的正面。 问：那么，如果有人要进入这座豪宅，根据这张照片，应该从哪里进入？ 答：这是庄园的正面，有一个环形车道。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 104 / 230页 莫里律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以把它拿下来。现在请只为证人展示政府证物 145 和 146。 问：从左边的 145 开始，Frosini 女士，你认得政府证物 145中展示的内容吗？ 答：是的，这是从Ramapo Valley Road进入庄园的入口。 问：看右边的政府证物 146，你认得这个证物中展示的内容吗？ 答：房子有点小，但看起来像是那处房产。 问：哪处房产？ 答：Crocker Mansion的房产。 莫里律师说：法官大人，政府提交政府证物 145和 146。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我可以问一下吗？ 法官说：可以。 初步询问 由施洛夫律师进行询问： 问：Frosini 女士，你也没有拍这些照片，对吗？ 答：没有。 施洛夫律师说：没有异议。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物 145和 146 被接纳为证据） 莫里律师说：请公开展示，洛夫特斯女士。现在陪审团可以看到，请在政府证物 145中 放大显示的牌匾。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 105 / 230页 问：Frosini 女士，请你读一下牌匾上的内容。 答：Crocker Mansion，675 Ramapo Valley Road。 莫里律师说：谢谢，洛夫特斯女士。我们可以把它拿下来。 问：Frosini 女士，您在购买克罗克豪宅中扮演了什么角色，如果有的话？ 答：我代表买方。 问：再次请把麦克风拉到你面前。 答：对不起。 问：音效有点棘手。谢谢。你代表的买方是谁？ 答：买方是 Taurus 基金。 问：你在这个房地产交易中的参与大约是什么时候开始的？ 答：2021 年 11 月 27 日或 28 日。 问：在这个交易中，你的主要联系人是谁，Taurus 基金的联系人？ 答：一个叫 Aaron Mitchell的律师。 问：在这个房地产交易开始之前，你认识 Aaron Mitchell吗？ 答：不认识。实际上，最初的电话是从 Sotheby's International打来的，他们回答得不正确。 问：你说最初的电话是打来的，你能描述一下你是什么意思吗？ 答：是的，Aaron Mitchell联系了 Sotheby's International 地产的 CEO Philip White，Philip White联系了 Prominent Properties Sotheby's的共同所有人，告诉他有一个客户想看几处房 产，然后他们找到了我来协助买家。 问：你与 Aaron Mitchell 讨论他对购买房产的兴趣时，有没有某个时间？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 106 / 230页 答：是的，他们联系了我，告诉我他们看看感兴趣的房产。 问：在最初的对话中，你与 Mitchell 讨论了哪些房产？ 答：他们想看的两处房产，一处是 Crocker Mansion，另一处是在纽约州海德公园的房产。 莫里律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请为证人调出并展示政府证物 128。 问：Frosini 女士，你认得政府证物 128中展示的个人吗？ 答：看起来像是 Aaron Mitchell。 莫里律师说：谢谢，洛夫特斯女士。我们可以把它拿下来。 问：Frosini 女士，为了展示你提到的那两处房产，你需要从 Aaron Mitchell 那里得到什么？ 答：我需要资金证明。当你展示这种级别的房产时，卖方要求买方提供资金证明。 问：什么是资金证明？ 答：资金证明基本上是买方能够负担得起这处房产的证明，可以是买方律师的信件或是某些人提 供的银行账户证明，并遮盖掉银行账号。 问：Aaron Mitchell 给你提供了资金证明吗？ 答：是的。 莫里律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请为证人展示政府证物 1100。 请翻几页看看。 问：Frosini 女士，这是什么政府证物，这是政府证物 1100？ 答：什么—— 问：这个证据包含了什么信息？ 答：这里是 Crocker Mansion的列表副本。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 107 / 230页 问：翻看这个政府证物的剩余部分，这是否可以说是你关于 Crocker Mansion 交易的文件？ 答：是的，这是执行合同。那是双方签署的执行合同。 法官说：Frosini 女士，请把麦克风靠近你的嘴巴，这样我们可以听清楚你说话。 证人说：对不起。嗯。 法官说：你可以靠近点，把椅子移近点。 莫里律师说：法官大人，政府提交政府证物 1100。 法官说：有异议吗？ 施洛夫律师说：没有，法官大人。 法官说：证物被接纳。 （政府证物 1100 被接纳为证据） 莫里律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请展示政府证物 1100 的第 63页。 请放大顶部部分。 由检方莫里律师提问： 问：Frosini 女士，这是什么？ 答：这是资金证明。 问：这封信的日期是什么时候？ 答：2021 年 11 月 25日。 问：这封信是谁发的？ 答：Aaron Mitchell。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 108 / 230页 问：看左上角，这封信的信头上写的是什么名字？ 答：Lawall & Mitchell, LLC。 问：这封信的主题行或关于行写的是什么？ 答：家族信托房地产购买。 问：请你现在读一下这封信的主要段落，从“本事务所”开始。 答：本事务所代表郭美和她的家族信托，并且已经这样做了多年。我了解郭女士的财务状况，可 以确认她有资金购买她目前希望查看的房产，最高可达房产的全额要价。此外，这些资金将由本 事务所保管，以完成郭女士或其指定实体进入的任何交易。我相信这已经足够了，但如果您有任 何问题，请随时与我联系。 问：Frosini 女士，当时你知道郭美是谁吗？ 答：不知道。 问：今天你知道郭美是谁吗？ 答：我见过她。 问：她是谁？ 答：女儿。 问：谁的女儿？ 答：郭先生和夫人的女儿。 问：你对郭美在这次房地产购买中的参与了解多少？ 答：购买这座房子。 问：郭美在购买中如何参与？ 答：抱歉？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 109 / 230页 问：郭美，女儿，在购买中如何参与？ 施洛夫律师说：问过并已回答，法官大人。 证人说：我见过她。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 证人说：对不起？ 法官说：请继续。 答：我在 Crocker Mansion 见过 Ms. Guo一两次。 问：这封信提到她目前希望查看的房产。这指的是哪处房产？ 答：这是用于查看海德公园和 Crocker Mansion。 问：是否有某个时间你向 Guo 家族的成员展示了这两处房产？ 答：是的。 问：你首先展示的是哪处房产？ 答：海德公园。 莫里律师说：我们可以暂时把这个拿下来，洛夫特斯女士。 问：你能否为陪审团描述一下海德公园的房产。 答：海德公园是一处位于哈德逊河畔的独特房产，非常现代化的风格。 问：这处房产的大概面积是多少？ 答：你知道吗，我不记得这座房子的平方英尺了。 问：你会将其描述为一座大房子吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 110 / 230页 答：不太会。对一些人来说可能是大的，但它并不是那种非常大的房子。 问：谁参加了海德公园房产的展示？ 答：郭先生和夫人，还有司机——我自己开车到那里和他们会合，但他们有一个司机和几个保安 人员。 问：你知道郭先生的名字吗？ 答：文贵。 问：他的妻子，你知道她的名字吗？ 答：不知道。 问：郭美参加了海德公园房产的展示吗？ 答：她不能来，Aaron Mitchell说她不能来—— 施洛夫律师说：反对，传闻，法官大人。 法官说：不要说别人说了什么。只回答她是否参加了。 证人说：对不起。 答：没有。 问：Aaron Mitchell参加了那次展示吗？ 答：没有。 问：你能描述一下在海德公园房产展示时用了多长时间吗？ 答：大约一个小时。 问：在那次展示中你和郭先生有交流吗？ 答：有一些。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 111 / 230页 问：你如何与他交流？ 答：我介绍了自己。我们和其他经纪人一起走过房子。总有一些交流——我不能很好地理解他的 英语。 问：你用什么语言与郭先生交流？ 答：我？英语。 问：你知道他是否会说其他语言吗？ 答：中文。我不知道是哪种方言。 问：Frosini 女士，你会说任何中文方言吗？ 答：不会。 问：你理解任何中文方言吗？ 答：不理解。 问：在海德公园展示期间，郭先生对这处房产说了什么？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。传闻。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：他们真的走遍所有房间。 问：你说“他们”时，指的是谁？ 答：郭先生和夫人。 问：第二次展示 Crocker Mansion是什么时候？ 答：在那之后。所以从那处房产，我们去了 Mahwah，去看 Crocker Mansion。 问：是同一天吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 112 / 230页 答：是的。 问：在我们谈论展示之前，你能为陪审团描述一下 Crocker Mansion吗？ 答：Crocker Mansion是一处庄园，仿照英国的一座庄园建造，面积很大，占地 12英亩。 莫里律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果可以的话，请展示政府物证 1100 的第 1页。 问：Frosini 女士，这是什么类型的文件？ 答：这是一个挂牌。 问：是哪个房产的挂牌？ 答：这是 Crocker Mansion的挂牌。 莫里律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请放大顶部部分。 问：看这张照片，Frosini 女士，这是 Crocker Mansion的照片吗？ 答：是的。 问：右边的第一行文字，“Last LP”，你看到了吗？ 莫里律师说：我们可以把它标亮，洛夫特斯女士。 答：看到了。 问：这指的是什么？ 答：那是最后的挂牌价格，意思是那是当时的挂牌价格。 问：再往下几行，有“Original LP”。 莫里律师说：如果可以的话，请把它标亮，洛夫特斯女士。 问：Frosini 女士，这指的是什么？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 113 / 230页 答：原始挂牌价格。 问：所以对于 Crocker Mansion，查看右上角的日期，这个报告是何时生成的？ 答：查看顶部，这个是 2021 年 2 月 16 日挂牌的。 问：对于这个挂牌，最后的挂牌价格是多少？ 答：最后的挂牌价格是 3300万美元。 莫里律师说：我们可以缩小这个部分，洛夫特斯女士，请放大下面的段落。 问：Frosini 女士，你可以读一下这个关于 Crocker Mansion的列表描述段落吗？ 答：“世界上最宏伟和稀有的庄园之一，Darlington是一座建筑杰作，位于距离纽约市 25英里的 地方。 施洛夫律师说：反对，这是传闻。 法官说：反对无效，你可以回答。 答：最初建于 1907 年，这座庄园经过精心修复，提供约 50,000平方英尺的壮观生活空间，和 超过 12英亩的美妙场地，被 Ramapo山脉所环绕。21间卧室，19+间浴室，稀有木材、石材和 工艺遍布全屋。宏伟的接待室包括大堂、图书馆、茶室和正式餐厅。餐厅风格的厨房、电影室、 台球室、带水疗的室内泳池、按摩室、酒窖、游戏室、健身房、带小屋的户外泳池、两个喷泉的 宏伟花园、网球场、8车位车库、由世界顶级设计师和工匠设计和装饰的室内设计和家具。有关 详细的房产信息，请参阅附加文件中的设施报告链接。” 问：第一句话中提到的 Darlington指的是什么？ 答：我不是挂牌经纪人。所以—— 问：你是否了解这个段落指的是你所知道的 Crocker Mansion？ 答：是的。 莫里律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以看政府证物 1100 的第 64页。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 114 / 230页 问：Frosini 女士，这是什么文件？ 答：这是所谓的设施表，突出了房屋的特点。 由检方律师莫里女士询问： 问： 请看这份文件的顶部，你能读一下加粗的文字吗？ 答： 欢迎来到达灵顿，Mahwah，675 拉马波谷路。 问： 这个地址，675 拉马波谷路，是克罗克庄园的地址，对吗？ 答： 对。 问： 洛夫特斯女士，请放大文档的上三分之一。这些是克罗克庄园的照片吗？ 答： 是的。 问： 洛夫特斯女士，请翻到下一页。请放大一点，这样更容易看清。 Frosini 女士，总的来说，这是什么？ 答： 这是卖方在 2008 年至 2018 年期间进行的装修清单。 问： 我不会逐条逐条地详细说。洛夫特斯女士，请翻到下一页，然后再翻到下一页。 Frosini 女士，总的来说，到展示的时候，装修的范围有多大？ 答： 非常大。 问： 展示时克罗克庄园的哪些部分已经装修过？ 答： 整个房子。 问： 那就是 1100页的第 67页，我们可以重新显示那部分内容吗？请只聚焦在最后一行文字 上。Frosini 女士，你能读一下这里的最后一行文字吗？ 答： 2008 到 2018 年之间进行的材料和劳动力的大致成本是 1900万美元。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 115 / 230页 问： 谢谢，洛夫特斯女士。我们现在可以收起来了。说到你展示克罗克庄园，当时谁参加了那 个展示？ 答： 郭先生和郭太太、我、卖方、司机、郭家的司机和几个保安。 问： 郭家开着什么车来参加那个展示？ 答： 我不记得了。 问： 你和郭家一起去的那个展示吗？ 答： 没有。 问： 大约展示持续了多久？ 答： 比海德公园的时间长。我猜大概一个多小时。 问： 在那个展示过程中，郭先生对克罗克庄园说了什么？ 施洛夫律师说： 同样的反对意见，法官大人。 法官说： 反对无效。你可以回答。 问： 在展示过程中，郭文贵（郭文贵）对克罗克庄园说了什么？ 答： 基本上是关于房子的细节的评论。 问： 你能举一些这些评论的例子吗？ 答： 房子的木工细节和房子的质量。 问： 根据你在展示过程中的观察，你对郭先生打算如何使用克罗克庄园有何印象？ 施洛夫律师说： 反对。 法官说： 请上前一步。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 116 / 230页 （边栏讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 法官说： 你说根据你的观察他打算如何使用这所房子。我不知道她能否仅凭他说过的话 来说明他的意图。 莫里律师说： 对的。这是基于她的观察。这是 701条意见。她是一位从事了 22 年的房 地产经纪人。她带人参观过房子。问题是她是否在展示期间形成了一种理解，例如，通过她听到 的或观察到的或她进行的对话；例如，这是否是一个家庭住宅，居所。 法官说： 我希望你能更具体地说明观察内容。 莫里律师说： 我可以再详细说明一些。 施洛夫律师说： 法官大人，我们有一个相关性的反对意见。 法官说： 这是非常相关的。施洛夫女士，这与房子的用途高度相关。 施洛夫律师说： 我知道你会判决对我不利，但我只是想记录一下我的观点。这没问题。 当然，法庭的判决总是正确的。我确实认为，房地产经纪人对某人购买房产原因的印象或观察实 际上是没有相关性的。这里唯一相关的是没有人的印象。政府是否能证明他为什么买或不买 Mahwah，这可以在其他地方证明，但不能通过房地产经纪人对她的想法的印象来证明。 法官说： 他所陈述的，他所传达的。 施洛夫律师说： 但他从未陈述过任何东西。 法官说： 这还没有确立他什么也没说。他谈到了关于木工的评论。 施洛夫律师说： 至于用途。我今天感觉不舒服请原谅我。庄园的用途与木工毫无关系。 而且这又是她对他购买房产原因的印象，这没有相关性。而且最重要的是，他们已经说是郭美可 能是买房的人，所以他们引入了郭美作为潜在买家的信。 法官说： 她可以评论对她所做的陈述，她可能听到的关于房产用途的陈述。这是我的裁 决。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 117 / 230页 （回到公开法庭；陪审团在场） 由检方莫里律师提问： 问：Frosini 女士，再次请你回到展示克罗克庄园的情况上，你还记得郭文贵在展示过程中对该 房产说了什么吗？ 答：没有什么特别的评论，只是说他喜欢这个房子之类的。非常感谢，我们会讨论一下然后再回 复你。 问：在展示过程中，郭文贵有没有提到对该房产可能进行改动或装修？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。她已经回答过郭文贵说了什么。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：你能重复一下吗？对不起。 问：在展示过程中，郭文贵有没有提到对该房产可能进行改动或装修？ 答：没有。这是他们第一次看这个房子。 问：那么，在展示克罗克庄园之后，接下来发生了什么？ 答：接下来是——再次强调，这是在 2021 年，我记不清时间和具体日期，但我接到了 Aaron Mitchell的电话，说他们想继续出价。 问：你提到的“他们”，Aaron Mitchell说他们想继续出价，你理解他指的是谁？ 答：他说他的客户。 施洛夫律师说：反对，这是传闻。反对。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：他的客户。 问：Frosini 女士，总的来说，你是如何与 Aaron Mitchell 就克罗克庄园的交易进行沟通的？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 118 / 230页 答：我们通过短信和电话联系。 问：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们能展示一下标记为政府证物 1101 的文件，并浏览一下。 Frosini 女士，政府证物 1101 是什么类型的文件？ 答：这些是我从 Aaron Mitchell收到的短信以及我的回复，所以这是我们双方的短信往来。 莫里律师说：法官大人，政府提出将政府证物 1101作为证据。 施洛夫律师说：反对，法官大人。这是传闻。 法官说：反对无效。证据被接纳。 （政府证物 1101 被接纳为证据） 由检方律师莫里律师提问： 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以公布这个证据吗？我们可以放大顶部的部分，使其全屏显示。谢 谢。 Frosini 女士，这个聊天消息顶部的联系人姓名，你能读出来吗？ 答：Aaron。 问：我们在这里看到的第一条消息，日期是什么时候？ 答：2021 年 11 月 27 日。 问：在这些消息中，你发送的消息是蓝色还是灰色的？ 答：蓝色。 问：那么灰色的消息是 Aaron Mitchell 发的吗？对吗？ 答：对。 问：请洛夫特斯女士，翻到第三页。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 119 / 230页 看这里的日期—— 答：2021 年 11 月 28 日。 问：看一下蓝色底部的消息，你能读一下那条消息吗？那是你发给 Aaron Mitchell的吗？ 答：希望继续对话。他们可以以 2800万带家具的价格购买庄园。供参考，原始要价是 3900 万，6 月份调整到 3300万。你可以晚点打电话给我。谢谢。 问：那封信中提到的庄园是什么？ 答：克罗克庄园。 问：我们可以翻到下一页吗？看中间 Aaron Mitchell 发的灰色消息。这条消息写了什么？ 答：那个没什么特别的？ 问：对的。 答：没有什么特别的，对吧？暴力历史，闹鬼故事，等等。 问：你对 Aaron Mitchell的这条消息有何回应？ 答：郭先生问我关于鬼的事，没有我知道的暴力行为。吃完晚饭后打电话给我。 问：在这里提到的你和郭先生关于鬼的对话，你指的是什么？ 答：有时买家会问房子里是否有过暴力事件或奇怪的事情。 问：特别是关于郭先生，你和他谈话的内容是什么？ 答：关于那个问题吗？ 问：对。 答：我会找出来。 问：他问了你什么？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 120 / 230页 答：对不起。 问：他在这里提到的问过你什么？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，法官大人。这是传闻，之前已经问过并回答过这次对话两次了。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：他问房子里是否有鬼。 问：他什么时候问你的？ 答：我们在房产那里时，他看房产时。 问：接下来的消息，Frosini 女士，这是什么日期？在这页底部。 答：2021 年 11 月 29 日。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能放大一下 Frosini 女士的消息吗？ Frosini 女士，这条消息中提到的基金会，能读一下这句话吗？从“请告知”开始。 答：请告知基金会，房主正在准备详细信息包供他们审核。我明天会转发给你。信息很多。我也 可以去镇上请求查看档案。至于已知的墓地、火灾等，答案是否定的。克里斯。 问：Frosini 女士，你在这里提到的基金会是什么？ 答：买家。 问：那个买家的名字是什么？ 答：再说一遍，资金证明上的名字是郭美家族信托，但我们签合同时买家的名字是 Taurus Foundation。 问：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们能翻到下一页。实际上，是下一页，不好意思。 Frosini 女士，聚焦在你的消息上，这页上的第二条消息，这是什么日期和时间发送的？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 121 / 230页 答：2021 年 12 月 1 日。 问：你能读一下这条消息的第一句话吗？从“嗨，Aaron”开始。 答：房主让我写下来，所以我会准备一份销售合同。请发邮件给我购买房产的人的名字及其地 址。我们可以在律师审查结束后立即支付 10%吗？通常这是一个三天的交易？告诉我关于交割 日期的事。告诉我交割日期房主现在是对十二月或一月没问题，并且谁将签署这个合同，是你 吗？ 问：Frosini 女士，你在提到购买房产的人的名字时，想问什么？ 答：因为我需要知道在写合同时买家的名字。 问：在最后一句中你问到的“谁将签署这个合同，是你吗？”你指的是什么？ 答：因为我们现在是电子签合同，所以我需要知道是谁的名字或公司名称，以便我最终确定合 同。 问：洛夫特斯女士，请翻到下一页。看一下顶部，同一天你再次给 Aaron Mitchell 发短信，他在 12 月 1 日晚上 5:47 的回复是什么？ 答：需要与英国的重新购买实体的人交谈。明早会回复你。 问：Frosini 女士，你知道 Aaron Mitchell 要和谁谈话吗？ 答：不知道。 问：到这个销售点，你听说过 Taurus Fund SP 吗？ 答：没有。 问：这里继续，如果我们看一下 Aaron Mitchell的下一条消息。他说，这可能是父亲明天上午 10点回来见Vinny。你理解的父亲是谁？ 答：郭先生。 问：你理解的 Vinny是谁？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 122 / 230页 答：他为卖方管理房产。 问：Aaron Mitchell的下一条消息开始于，母亲的一个担忧是空调声音大。你看到了吗？ 答：看���了。 问：你理解的母亲是谁？ 答：郭太太。 问：那是郭文贵的妻子，对吗？ 答：对。 问：我们可以翻到下一页吗，洛夫特斯女士。 看第二条 Aaron Mitchell 发的灰色消息，这条消息是什么时间？ 答：2021 年 12 月 2 日。 问：Aaron Mitchell 发的短信内容是什么？他们还有五分钟到。你理解的“他们”指的是谁？ 答：买家。 问：同一天 2:59 你发给 Aaron Mitchell的短信是什么内容？ 答：我发了什么？ 问：是的。洛夫特斯女士，可以放大一下吗？ 答：供参考，他们刚刚离开。 问：Frosini 女士，你记得 2021 年 12 月 2 日郭家访问克罗克庄园吗？ 答：记得，我们参观了一次。我只是，你知道，那是两年前；但是，是的，我们在那里。 问：那次参观中发生了什么？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 123 / 230页 答：他们更详细地看了房子。 问：你能详细说一下 12 月 2 日那次参观的情况吗？ 答：他们更详细地看了房子的每个房间，我没有一直和他们在一起，因为我让买家自己去看，尤 其是当他们第二次来的时候。他们想自己谈谈。 问：那次看房谁参加了？谁是那次访问的买家？ 答：你知道吗，我不太记得了。 问：你记得那次访问中郭先生，郭文贵，有参加吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，已经问过并回答过。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：是的，可能还有女儿那天在。我不记得具体日期；但是，是的，我不记得具体谁在场。我是 说，郭先生在场，我相信可能是那天的女儿。但我不能保证是那天。 问：特别是关于郭先生，那天你和郭先生有过任何讨论吗？ 答：可能是随意的对话。再次强调，存在语言上的一些困难，但偶尔会有随意的对话。而且我没 有和他们一起走遍整个房子。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以翻到下一页吗？ 看顶部你发给 Aaron Mitchell的短信，日期是什么？ 答：2021 年 12 月 3 日。 问：你能读一下这条消息吗？ 答：Aaron，如果我能让卖方同意 26收单，12 月 20 日，你觉得那可以吗？ 问：“26”这里指的是什么？ 答：你知道吗，我自己也在看。你知道吗，我不知道。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 124 / 230页 问：再往下看一点，页面中间 Aaron Mitchell 发的消息，他在请求什么卖方信息？ 答：你有卖方的全名吗？这样我可以写在信里。 问：再往下几条消息，他发的另一条消息，以邮件开头。你看到了吗？ 答：邮件给你信了。让我知道是否还需要其他东西。 问：我们可以翻到下一页吗，洛夫特斯女士。这还是同一天，12 月 3 日。Aaron Mitchell 发的 消息以”嗨”开头，你能读一下吗？ 答：嗨，克里斯，你有克罗克的平面图吗？ 问：你的回复是什么？ 答：我会拿到。卖方接受报价他们满意吗？卖方可能想等我发送，直到我们有签署的合同。我会 通知你。 问：Aaron Mitchell对此消息的回复是什么？ 答：他们更关注使其符合他们的品味，所以如果我能尽快拿到，太好了。 问：Frosini 女士，你对 Aaron Mitchell提到的“他们”有了解吗？ 答：有。 问：谁？ 答：买家。 问：买家是谁？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，已经问过并回答过。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：买家是郭家。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 125 / 230页 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以收起这个。请为证人展示政府证物 1102。如果我们可以浏览一 下。 Frosini 女士，你认得政府证物 1102中的文件吗？ 答：这些是卖方给我的平面图。 问：你之前看过这个证物吗？ 答：我收到时看过。 问：这些是与克罗克庄园交易相关的各种文件吗？ 答：对。 莫里律师说：法官大人，政府提出将政府证物 1102作为证据。 施洛夫律师说：反对，法官大人。我们能在边栏讨论吗？ 法官说：好的。 （边栏讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，这份文件是一个名为 Gladys Chow的人和房地产经纪人之间 的电子邮件交流。这些交流没有任何关系或共谋论证使其具有可采性，它们是书面传闻。因此， 基于这些原因，我们反对 Chow 女士和房地产经纪人之间的电子邮件交流作为证据。 法官说：这些邮件说了什么？ 施洛夫律师说：她问了很多问题，房地产经纪人回复了。她问关于家具的问题。她询问 了装饰师的推荐。她问应该如何以及找谁来装修这个地方。Chow 女士与房地产经纪人的互动没 有传闻例外。 法官说：Chow 女士是谁？ 施洛夫律师说：Chow 女士是一名员工。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 126 / 230页 法官说：她是谁的员工？ 施洛夫律师说：我认为她是——我不确定她技术上是为谁工作的。芬克先生，我真的认 为你不应该笑或嘲笑我。 芬克律师说：我不是在笑你。我是在笑你的回答。 施洛夫律师说：那是一样的，我的回答。 芬克律师说：我道歉，施洛夫女士。 施洛夫律师说：Chow 女士与房地产经纪人的交流是传闻，因此我们反对。 莫里律师说：法官大人，Chow 女士是郭文贵的代理人。她与房地产经纪人沟通，就像 她代表郭先生与其他各种人沟通一样，提出问题并将回复传达给郭先生。实际上，Gladys Chow 在辩护律师一年前提供给政府的潜在律师和客户特权名单上。因为他们说她在与郭先生的助理关 系中担任翻译。她与郭先生的沟通非常紧密，可能涉及特权沟通。不仅是 Frosini 女士，她经常 与还与其他人交流，例如和政府预计的证人之一 Paolo Sozzi 交流关于额外装修的情况。她传达 郭先生的信息并反馈给郭先生。她显然是一个代理人，这是一个例外情况。 法官说：这些电子邮件可以作为证据。继续。 施洛夫律师说：关于莫里律师在边栏中提到的事实，记录中没有任何证据。没有任何证 词证明这一点。没有关于 Chow 女士的证词。显然没有关于潜在证人的证词，因为证人尚未作 证。没有确立 Chow 女士与郭先生之间的代理关系。而她在特权名单上的事实也可能反映了她 在他被逮捕后在监狱中为他翻译的情况。因此，基于这些原因，没有确立 Gladys Chow与郭先 生之间的代理关系。此外，法官大人，政府很清楚这一点，因为他们接触过 Chow 女士并试图 与她交谈，但她拒绝了。这些都没有作为证据，因此，我继续以传闻证据作为理由反对。 莫里律师说：法官大人，我当然打算问 Frosini 女士下一个问题，问她 Chow 女士是谁 以及她与 Chow 女士互动的性质。 法官说：这些电子邮件可以作为证据。 （政府证物 1102 被接纳为证据）
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 127 / 230页 （回到公开法庭，陪审团在场） 法官说：继续。 由检方律师芬克先生进行： 问：洛夫特斯女士，如果可以请展示现已作为证据的政府证物 1102。翻到第 63页。请放大底 部的这封电子邮件。 Frosini 女士，这封电子邮件的日期是什么？ 答：2021 年 12 月 3 日。 问：这封电子邮件是谁发的？ 答：Aaron Mitchell。 问：你能读一下你从 Aaron Mitchell收到的这封电子邮件吗？ 答：这是否有效地表示了兴趣意图？让我知道他是否想要定金，等等，或者他是否对这个数字满 意。他的律师可以与我们处理过户的律师对话。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以翻到下一页，并放大这里的内容部分。 Frosini 女士，这是什么？ 答：这是一封意向书。 问：关于哪处房产？ 答：位于 Mahwah的克罗克庄园。 问：这封意向书的日期是什么？ 答：2021 年 12 月 3 日。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 128 / 230页 问：我来读一下这封信。谢谢你抽出时间向我客户的代表展示你的房产，位于新泽西州 Mahwah的拉马波山谷路 675号。我的客户授权我正式出价 2600万美元购买这处房产。这将是 一笔现金交易。按照你的要求，过户将在 2021 年 12 月 20 日或之前进行。 首先，据你理解，这封信中的“我客户的代表”指的是谁？ 答：我不知道他为什么这样写。 问：这是指—— 施洛夫律师说：反对。请求删除，因为不回应。 法官说：反对有效。请重读问题，并听问题并回答问题。 答：你说谢谢你抽出时间向我客户的代表展示你的房产。我不知道他什么意思，我不知 道 Aaron Rogers为什么不说我的客户或买家，而说我客户的代表。也许这就是他说的代表的意 思。 施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我请求删除“我不知道他什么意思”之后的所有内容。 法官说：从“也许”开始删除。继续。 问：Frosini 女士，这里提到向某些人展示房产，你向 Aaron Mitchell 关联的哪些人展示了房 产？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，引导性问题。 答：郭家。 法官说：反对有效。你向谁展示了房产。 证人说：郭家。 问：我们可以翻到政府证物 1102 的第 19页。看顶部的这封电子邮件，这封电子邮件的日期是 什么？ 答：2021 年 12 月 6 日。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 129 / 230页 问：根据主题行，这封邮件是关于哪处房产的？ 答：拉马波山谷路 675号。 问：在邮件内容顶部以“发送”开头的部分，有一些粗体和斜体的文字。你看到了吗？ 答：看到了。 问：这段文字写了什么？ 答：代表 Bruce E. Whitaker发送。 问：Bruce E. Whitaker 是谁？ 答：卖方的律师。 问：看这里的第一句话，从“附件”开始，写了什么？ 答：附件是已完全执行的合同。请注意，我对第 3C段进行了一个修改，即将定金存放在我们的 信托账户中。请让买方签署这个修改。 问：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以翻到第 21页。这是附件的合同。 Frosini 女士，如果我们可以聚焦在第七项到最底部，Frosini 女士，这份签署的合同中谁被列为 卖方？ 答：克罗克庄园地产有限责任公司。 问：买方是谁？ 答：Taurus Fund SP。 问：你对 Taurus Fund SP 的理解是什么？ 答：我不知道。我没有问。 问：在你的房地产实践中，通常情况下，买房的人会是机构吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 130 / 230页 施洛夫律师说：反对。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：对于重要的房产，人们不会用他们的个人名字。通常会用有限责任公司或信托。 问：你看到合同上的 Taurus Fund的签名了吗？ 答：看到了。 问：你是怎么得到这份签署的合同副本的？ 答：通过电子方式。 问：你知道 Taurus Fund SP 的公司结构吗？ 答：不知道。 问：看右下角，那是你的电子签名吗？ 答：是的。 问：如果我们能翻到这个证物的第 18页，洛夫特斯女士，并聚焦在 Frosini 女士的电子邮件 上。 Frosini 女士，这封电子邮件的日期是什么？ 答：2021 年 12 月 6 日。 问：你把这封邮件发给了谁？ 答：Aaron Mitchell。 问：你能读一下这封电子邮件的正文吗？ 答：祝贺基金会。附件是已签署的合同。请参阅律师的备注。 问：你为什么说“祝贺基金会”？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 131 / 230页 答：因为我总是祝贺买家。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以把这部分收起来。请我们翻到政府证物 1101 的第 12页。 从顶部的消息开始，这条来自 Aaron Mitchell的短信是什么日期？ 答：有什么运气吗？他们今天给我打了三次电话。我的或May和母亲真的很想看。我要让他们 满意。 问：首先看这条信息的日期，这个截图顶部的日期，Aaron Mitchell 发给你这条短信的日期是什 么？ 答：2021 年 12 月 4 日。 问：你理解的 May指的是谁？ 答：女儿。 问：谁的女儿？ 答：郭先生和郭太太的女儿。 问：你理解的母亲指的是谁？ 答：郭先生的妻子。 问：这里底部有一条来自你的消息，是你在这页上发的最后一条短信。它表明“刚刚给你发了平 面图，请确认收到”。 你是哪天给 Aaron Mitchell 发的平面图？ 答：2021 年 12 月 4 日。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们现在可以翻到政府证物 1102 的第一页，聚焦在电子邮件上。 Frosini 女士，这封电子邮件是谁发的？ 答：Gladys Chow。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 132 / 230页 问：Gladys Chow是谁？ 答：Gladys Chow与这个家族一起工作。我不知道她的具体职位。 问：为了明确，Gladys Chow与哪个家族一起工作？ 答：郭家。 问：发送这条消息使用的电子邮件域名是什么？ 答：HCHKTECH.com。 问：你知道 HCHKTECH是什么吗？ 答：不知道。 问：Gladys Chow 发这封电子邮件的日期是什么？ 答：2021 年 12 月 6 日。 问：这大约是发出平面图短信的两天后，对吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对作证。 法官说：反对有效。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能拉到政府证物 1101 的第 12页，聚焦在中间部分。 你发的蓝色消息，你是哪天发给 Aaron Mitchell 这两条关于克罗克庄园平面图的消息的？ 答：12 月 4 日。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们回到 1102 的第一页。 你几天后收到 Gladys Chow的这封电子邮件？ 答：12 月 6 日。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 133 / 230页 问：这封邮件抄送给谁？ 答：Aaron Mitchell。 问：Frosini 女士，你能读一下这封电子邮件吗？ 答：希望你周末愉快。我们那天在达灵顿参观时见过，我还有几个问题。一，你知道任何在新泽 西和纽约的室内厨房设计师、窗帘和地毯公司可以推荐给我们的吗？ 二，除了附上的平面图，你还有其他图纸可以提供给我们吗？ 三，我在平面图的第三页上圈出了三个区域。如果我们想把每个区域清空并把它们改造成一个单 独的房间，大概需要多长时间。谢谢你的帮助。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以缩小视图，并浏览政府证物 1102 的接下来几页。停在那里一会 儿。 Frosini 女士，这是什么？ 答：这是一个平面图。 问：关于哪个房产？ 答：拉马波路 675号。 问：这个平面图表示的是房产的哪个部分？ 答：我没有带眼镜，是一楼。 问：谢谢。我们可以缩小视图。翻到下一页。这是房产的哪个部分？ 答：二楼。 问：再下一页？ 答：三楼。 问：现在你看到这些平面图上的红色框了吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 134 / 230页 答：看到了。 问：你理解这是 Chow 女士在她发给你的电子邮件中提到的红色框吗？我们可以回到第一页， 洛夫特斯女士。 再看一下 Chow 女士电子邮件中的第三项，你看到了吗，Frosini 女士？ 答：看到了。 问：我们回到第四页，洛夫特斯女士。根据这封电子邮件，你理解这些红色框表示什么吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，引导性问题。 问：你对红色框表示什么的理解是什么？ 答：我从未回答过这个问题，因为我没有参与其中。 问：明白了。撇开你可能给出的任何回应不谈，你对这个问题的理解是什么？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，形式。 法官说：你是问她是否看到问题和屏幕上的内容之间有任何关系？ 莫里律师说：是的，法官大人。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：我真的没有对此发表过任何评论。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以翻到下一页吗？ 这个房子的哪个部分反映在这张图上，Frosini 女士？ 答：地下室。 问：然后下一页，我们可以聚焦在这里。 Frosini 女士，这封邮件是你发的吗，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 135 / 230页 答：对。 问：你把这封邮件发给了谁？ 答：Gladys Chow。 问：抄送给谁？ 答：Aaron Mitchell。 问：你的回复是什么？ 答：谢谢你的邮件。我明天会把设计师的名字发给你，并会联系房屋管理员关于下面的第二和第 三项。 问：房屋管理员是谁？ 答：房屋管理员是 Vinny Labarberi。 问：我们翻到下一页，洛夫特斯女士。 Frosini 女士，Gladys对你那封邮件的回复是什么？ 答：谢谢你。如果你能给我们一些 DWG文件就好了。我想是图纸——家的二维和三维图。谢 谢。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以往下翻两页到第 10页。 Frosini 女士，你发的这封邮件的主题是什么？ 答：平面图。 问：你随邮件提供了什么？ 答：从卖方那里得到的额外平面图。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们再往下翻两页。看一下屏幕右上角的部分，洛夫特斯女士，如果你能放 大一下，这反映了房子的哪个部分。缩小视图。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 136 / 230页 右上角的顶部，这些额外平面图与哪一层有关？ 答：地下室楼层平面图。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们翻到下一页，做类似的操作。这是在左边，左下角。 答：克罗克住宅一层家具平面图。 问：再下一页，洛夫特斯女士。左下角的这一部分房子是与这些额外平面图有关的？ 答：克罗克住宅二层家具平面图。 问：再下一页。 答：克罗克住宅二层家具平面图。 问：最后一页，洛夫特斯女士。 答：克罗克住宅三层家具平面图。 问：我们可以缩小视图。 Frosini 女士，克罗克庄园有多少层？ 答：我不知道我是否搞混了。我相信在完成的下层上面有三层。 问：我们可以翻到下一页，洛夫特斯女士。 Frosini 女士，这封电子邮件的主题是什么？ 答：设计师。 问：日期是什么？ 答：2021 年 12 月 15日。 问：你把这封邮件发给了谁？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 137 / 230页 答：Gladys。 问：总体上，这些你发给Gladys的设计有什么作用？ 答：我只是把名单提交给她。 问：这些是什么类型的设计师？ 答：室内设计师。 问：好的。洛夫特斯女士，我们往下翻两页。 缩小视图。我认为我们需要再往下一页。 我们回到政府证物 1101 的第 19页，洛夫特斯女士。 这些还是与 Aaron Mitchell的短信。顶部 Aaron Mitchell的消息写道，雁平将会和大家一起中午 到达。雁平是谁？ 答：雁平和郭先生一起工作。 问：然后底部，如果我们看这些短信的下半部分，这条消息的日期是什么？ 答：2021 年 12 月 13 日。 问：你在那天写给 Aaron Mitchell的是什么？ 答：供参考，每个人都在这里。 问：Aaron的回复是什么？ 答：我在路上了。以为我们中午见。 问：然后你的下两条回复，理解其中一条有点被截断？ 答：我也是。他们改了。 问：然后你写道，刚刚和雁平谈了。你看到了吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 138 / 230页 答：对。我认为它的结束是刚刚和雁平谈了。他们—— 问：我们可以翻到下一页，洛夫特斯女士。实际上，我们往上一页翻。 Frosini 女士，你记得 2021 年 12 月 13 日的会议吗？ 答：我们当时在做——我在想检查是什么时候。我没有带我的笔记。我不知道检查是什么时候。 我们检查了房子，然后另一天我们有结构检查，可能是那一天。 问：如果有的话，谁参加了这些检查？ 答：房屋检查——我可能错了，家人不在。我在整个时间。然后对不起，我只是猜测。然后另一 天我们有结构检查，我相信那天他们在那里。 施洛夫律师说：反对，法官大人，她在猜测。 法官说：不要猜测。只说你知道的。 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们翻到这个证物的第 25页。Frosini 女士，Aaron Mitchell的第一条消 息，第一条灰色消息，你能读一下这条消息吗？ 答：灰色的消息？ 问：对不起，Aaron Mitchell的灰色消息。 答：谢谢，周四会有任何人到场吗，或者可以有人在那里让 Scott和承包商进来吗？ 问：Scott是谁？ 答：Scott是一个安全人员。不知道他的头衔。 问：我们能翻到下一页吗，洛夫特斯女士，聚焦在这条信息的顶部部分。 你看到你发给 Aaron Mitchell的短信了吗？ 答：看到了。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 139 / 230页 问：部分内容写道，我根据Gladys的请求发送了一些高端设计师的名单。让我知道你们是否需 要我的帮助。你给Gladys 发送的是什么类型的设计师名单？ 答：室内设计师。 问：我们可以翻到下一页吗？你能读一下你发给 Aaron Mitchell的第一条短信吗？ 答：我明天早上会见卖方。事实上，他想让我安排建筑师和负责人之间的时间，何时或今晚。让 我知道。 问：负责人是谁？ 答：客户，买家。 问：当你写到负责人时，你特指哪个人？ 答：买家，家族。 问：哪个家族，Frosini 女士？ 答：郭家。 问：再往下看约三分之二的位置。有一条来自 Aaron Mitchell的消息，开头是 Scott。你能读一 下你的回复吗？ 答：Scott 会在 11点到。 问：你的回复是什么？ 答：是的，我会见他。 问：我们可以翻到下一页，能否读一下顶部的两条短信，第一条来自 Aaron Mitchell的 答：建筑师和 Vinny可以来纽约讨论计划吗？ 问：然后你的回复是什么？ 答：我会问什么时候。只是一个想法，你不觉得最好在房子里见面，以防他们需要走遍房间吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 140 / 230页 问：再往下看一些，在 2021 年 12 月 17 日，Aaron Mitchell的第二条消息。他在这一页的最后 一条消息是什么？ 答：你能发给 Amy结构检查的发票吗？ 问：Amy是谁？ 答：Amy Buck是房地产律师。 问：哪位房地产律师？ 答：她是买方负责过户的律师。 问：我们翻到下一页，洛夫特斯女士。 可以放大一下。看这一页的最后一条来自 Aaron Mitchell的消息，开头是 Did you那里他写了什 么？ 答：你有没有收到 1500 美元的收据？ 问：你能再读一遍这条消息吗？我认为你可能漏掉了一个字。 答：你有没有收到 Y，字母 Y，1500 美元的收据。 问：你理解的“Y”指的是谁？ 答：你有没有给雁平收到 1500 美元的收据。 问：我们翻到下一页，洛夫特斯女士。 Frosini 女士，你写道，已发送修订的给你和 Amy。Aaron Mitchell回复。然后你下一条消息开 头是 Aaron。你能读一下这条短信吗？ 答：Aaron，请代我向买家祝贺。他们很好，他们的工作人员也很好。我需要和你谈谈我能为他 们做些什么来感谢他们。再次感谢，Aaron。 问：在这条消息中，Frosini 女士，当你说买家时，你指的是哪些人？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 141 / 230页 答：郭家。 问：当你提到他们的工作人员时，你指的是哪些工作人员？ 答：安保人员，雁平。 问：这些是属于谁的工作人员？ 答：你知道，我用了“工作人员”这个词。也许这不合适，但这些是我通过郭家认识的人。 问：我们看一下你发的下一条消息。你是哪天发的，嗨，Aaron？ 答：2021 年 12 月 22 日。 问：你能读一下这条消息吗？ 答：嗨，Aaron。明天，你有时间谈谈吗？我想给买家买点东西。同时，送一束漂亮的节日花卉 是否显得俗气？考虑到隐私因素，我不知道他们是否愿意我把东西送到他们在康涅狄格的家。我 们可以明天谈。谢谢。 问：Frosini 女士，Aaron Mitchell 有没有回复这条短信？ 答：没有。 问：我们可以把那个拿下了，洛夫特斯女士。 问：Frosini 女士，在购买克罗克庄园后，你知道该房产是否进行了任何装修？ 答：不知道，我从未去过那里。 问：你知道那处房产是否有家具吗？ 答：不知道。 问：你有没有与 Aaron Mitchell 有过额外的或进一步的联系？ 答：没有。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 142 / 230页 问：你有没有直接与郭家有进一步的联系？ 答：房子过户后吗？ 问：对。 答：可能大约两个月后。 问：那次联系的性质是什么？ 答：可能是要看商业空间。 问：那商业空间在哪里？ 答：在卑尔根县。 问：如果有的话，谁联系你看商业空间？ 答：Aaron Mitchell是最初的联系人。 问：然后发生了什么？ 答：然后我主要与安保人员谈话。 问：谈什么？ 答：关于潜在的商业空间。 问：有没有某个时间，你在卑尔根县展示潜在的商业空间？ 答：是的，有几个建筑物。 问：如果有的话，你展示那些建筑物给谁看？ 答：两位安保和郭先生，只有几次，主要是安保。 问：你在卑尔根县展示的商业空间是哪种类型的？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 143 / 230页 答：办公空间。 问：你了解谁会使用你展示的办公空间吗？ 答：家族需要的任何业务—— 施洛夫律师说：反对。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：家族需要办公室做的任何业务，你知道，我不应该说家族，是郭先生。 问： 您是否曾在某一时期得知过将进入该空间的企业名称？ 答：没有，我们从未一起签订合同。 问：你展示的任何商业空间是否有出价？ 答：我们从未签订合同。 问：Frosini 女士，在与商业空间相关的互动之后，你与郭家有其他联系吗？ 答：没有。 问：在商业空间之后，你与郭家的工作人员有联系吗？ 答：工作人员。 施洛夫律师说：反对使用“郭家工作人员”这个说法。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：没有，只是在商业方面。 问：在你进行的商业展示之后呢？ 答：没有。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 144 / 230页 问：你与—— 答：家族，没有。 莫里律师说：法官大人，我能说几句话吗？ 法官说：可以。 问：Frosini 女士，根据你代表克罗克庄园买家的互动，你对买家购买克罗克庄园的原因有什么 理解？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：作为他们的家。 问：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们能请你展示政府证物 Z12并翻到第 19页。这是在证据中的。 Frosini 女士，看这份文件的顶部，左上角，这份文件左上角的公司名称是什么？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。这个问题只是为了读文件。这是不合适的。她可以问一个关于文 件的问题。 法官说：这个文件在证据中吗？ 莫里律师说：是的，法官大人。 法官说：问题是什么？ 问：左上角列出的实体名称是什么？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：Crane Advisory Group, LLC。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 145 / 230页 问：然后右上角的名称？ 答：右上角。 问：是吗？ 答：Crane Advisory Group, LLC。 问：Frosini 女士，你以前见过这份文件吗？ 答：从未见过。 问：看这页中间黄色框中的第一个框，你认得那里列出的实体名称吗？ 答：Lawall & Mitchell, LLC。 问：你认得那家公司吗？ 答：是的，那是 Aaron Mitchell的公司。 问：再看底部，这里列出的三家公司从左下角开始，是什么？ 答：McDonnell Whitaker 律师信托。 问：中间的呢？ 答：Insight Title Services LLC信托。 问：中间右边的顶端呢？ 答：Buck Esquire LLC 律师信托账户。 问：你熟悉 Buck Esquire LLC 吗？ 答：那是 Amy Buck，那个律师。 法官说：谁的律师？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 146 / 230页 证人说：买方的律师，负责房地产交易的那位。 法官说：继续。 问：我们翻到下一页，聚焦在顶部部分。 Frosini 女士，你看到这里列出的房产位置了吗？在项目G下方？ 答：房产位置拉马波山谷路 675号，新泽西 Mahwah。 问：那是克罗克庄园，对吗？ 答：对。 问：看看右边的项目 H，结算代理是谁？ 答：Insight Title Services, LLC。 问：再看左边一点，这里的项目 D，借款人的名称和地址是什么？ 答：借款人是 Taurus Fund, LLC。 问：最后是屏幕左侧靠近底部的第 101 项，克罗克庄园的合同销售价格是多少？ 答：2600万美元。 莫里律师说：请稍等，法官大人。 没有更多问题了。 法官说：交叉询问。 施洛夫律师说：谢谢，法官大人。我可以再把那份证物调出来吗？谢谢。 交叉询问 由辩方施洛夫律师提问：
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 147 / 230页 问：我可以看一下那份文件的第一页吗？ 下午好，Frosini 女士，你好吗？ 答：很好，谢谢。 问：Frosini 女士，刚才政府律师向你展示了这份文件，对吗？ 答：对。 问：今天之前你和政府律师见过面，对吗？ 答：通过 Zoom会议。 问：通过 Zoom或其他方式，你见过她，对吗？ 答：我见过迈卡·费根森，第一次见她是在星期五，通过 Zoom。 问：上周五吗？ 答：是的，和迈卡·费根森一起。 问：她向你展示了这份文件，对吗？ 答：没有。 问：我是说刚才她在直接询问时向你展示了这份文件？ 答：是的。 问：对吗？ 答：是的。 问：让你读了它，对吗？ 答：对。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 148 / 230页 问：你可以再看一下这份文件吗？你说之前从未见过它，对吗？ 答：对。 问：你不知道它是否准确，对吗？ 答：对。 问：你能告诉我这份文件中哪里有郭文贵的名字吗？ 答：我看到谁的名字？ 问：郭文贵。 答：没有。 问：郭美呢？ 答：没有。 问：郭文贵的妻子呢？ 答：没有。 问：郭文贵的女儿呢？ 答：没有。 问：郭文贵的工作人员呢？ 答：没有。 莫里律师说：法官大人，我们承认郭文贵不在这份文件上。 法官说：好的。 问：她还问了你关于 Crane Advisory 这个集团公司的事情，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 149 / 230页 答：对。 问：上周五你与检察官会面时，她问了你关于 Crane Advisory的事情吗？ 答：没有。 问：因为你对 Crane Advisory一无所知，对吗？ 答：对。 问：显然你对汉密尔顿机会基金也一无所知，对吗？ 答：对。 问：你只知道这里面与你共事的人，对吗？ 答：两位律师。 问：对吗？ 答：对。 问：那是 Lawall & Mitchell，对吗？ 答：是的，McDonnell Whitaker 和 Buck Esquire。我不认识 Buck Esquire本人，但我知道这个 名字。 问：我们可以把这个收起来。 现在，请允许我转到政府证物 1100，并请您看一下——能不能把它放大一点，谢谢。非常感 谢。你能告诉陪审团这份文件是谁制作的吗？ 答：挂牌代理，卖方代理。 问：什么是挂牌代理？ 答：挂牌代理代表卖方。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 150 / 230页 问：这份文件公开发布在哪里，谁会看到它？ 答：通过新泽西州多重挂牌服务公开发布。 问：比如有人想买房，他们会看到它吗？ 答：对。 问：这是类似广告的东西，来买我的房子吗？ 答：是的。它通知公众这所房子正在出售。 问：它试图卖掉这所房子，对吗？ 答：对。 问：它突出了房产的优点，对吗？ 答：对。 问：如果可以避免，如果法律没有要求，你不一定会发布房产的缺点，对吗？ 莫里律师说：反对，要求推测。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：你能重复一下吗？ 问：当然。如果法律没有要求披露，你不一定会突出房产的负面方面，对吗？ 答：我意思是如果有负面的话，你需要披露房产的情况。我真的不明白你的意思。 问：比如说第三间卧室没有阳光，你不会把它写在这份报告上，对吗？ 莫里律师说：反对，法官大人，相同理由。 法官说：反对无效。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 151 / 230页 问：你不会把它写在—— 答：这不是房子的亮点，所以你不会把它写在那里。 问：所以你在那份列表中写上了房子的亮点，对吗？ 答：对。 问：我们可以往下翻一下，能继续往下翻吗？这是房产的描述，对吗？ 答：对。 问：你没有准备这个，对吗？ 答：没有，我没有准备它。 问：在和你谈论这处房产时，政府律师还问了你关于第二处房产的问题，对吗？ 答：对。 问：那是在海德公园？ 答：对，纽约的海德公园。 问：那是房产的名字还是地方的名字？ 答：那是镇的名字。 问：你今天坐在这里知道那处房产的名字吗？你记得吗？ 答：Ledge 什么的，我记不清了。 问：你知道这两处房产中哪一处更贵吗？ 答：Ledge。 问：Ledge 比这处房产更贵？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 152 / 230页 答：对。 问：我们可以继续往下翻，能放大一点吗？我想问一下你，这是一份标准合同吗？ 答：全国房地产经纪人协会，这是房地产经纪人在开始谈判交易时制作的合同。 问：你使用标准格式，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：我们可以翻到签名栏，这里有签名，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：左边是克罗克庄园地产有限责任公司的卖方签名，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是谁？ 答：卖方。 问：是的，但克罗克庄园地产有限责任公司是谁？ 答：那是卖方的有限责任公司。 问：你不知道那是谁，对吗？ 有一个叫克罗克庄园地产有限责任公司的先生或女士吗？ 答：没有。 问：买方是谁？ 答：Taurus Fund SP。 问：显然你收到了这份文件，因为你在下面签了电子签名，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 153 / 230页 答：对。 问：对你来说，买家是 Taurus Fund SP，对吗？ 答：对。 问：不是郭文贵，对吗？ 答：是 Taurus Fund SP。 问：不是郭文贵，对吗？ 答：我不知道那是谁。我没问。我只是准备合同，然后交给律师。 问：对。但它没有说 Taurus, 郭文贵，对吗？ 莫里律师说：已经问过并回答过了。 法官说：反对有效。 答：它写的是 Taurus Fund SP。我不知道基金里包括谁。 问：你知道是一个基金在购买它，对吗？ 答：当我问律师该把合同写给谁时，他们告诉我写 Taurus Fund SP。 问：如果现在有人想卖这处房产，唯一的卖家可能是 Taurus Fund SP，对吗？ 答：我不是律师。我不知道。如果他们改了名字，我不知道。 问：我告诉你，如果那份文件保持不变？ 答：对。 问：唯一可以卖掉它的实体是 Taurus Fund SP，对吗？ 答：对。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 154 / 230页 问：你审阅了这份文件并把它发给谁了？ 答：一旦买方签署了这份文件，我会把它发给卖方签署，然后直接发给律师。 问：发给谁的律师？ 答：发给卖方和买方的律师。 问：是你把它发给买方和卖方的律师吗？ 答：我分发给卖方的律师和买方的律师，是的。 问：你把它发给卖方和买方的律师了吗？ 答：不，我想我只是把它发给了买方。有时如果我们代表买方，我们会把它发给买方的律师，而 挂牌代理会把它发给卖方的律师，但他们都能得到这份合同。 问：一旦他们都收到了合同，你的工作基本上就完成了吗？ 答：是的，唯一的事情——是的，他们不批准合同，他们把附加条款放在一起。之后我唯一的工 作就是安排检查。 问： 房产所有权由谁归档？ 法官说：好的，现在是 2:30。我们现在休息半小时。你可以离开了，不要讨论你的证 词。我们将在 3:00 继续。记住，不要讨论案件，不要让他人在你面前讨论，不要读、听或看任 何与本审判有关的内容。 法庭书记员说：陪审团退庭。 （陪审团不在场） 法官说：你们可以就座。在我们继续之前还有什么事吗？ 莫里律师说：政府这边没有，法官大人。 施洛夫律师说：没有，法官大人。谢谢。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 155 / 230页 （休庭） （陪审团不在场） 法官说：请让陪审员进来。 （陪审团在场） 法官说：请坐。 记住，Frosini 女士，你仍在宣誓之下。 证人说：是的。 法官说：你可以继续交叉询问。 施洛夫律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 由辩方施洛夫律师提问： 问：Frosini 女士，你在 Mahwah的房地产市场有丰富的经验，对吗？ 答：对。 问：你自己是否住在那个地区——我不需要具体地址——但你住在附近吗？ 答：是的。 问：你之前在那里卖过房子吗？ 答：在 Mahwah吗？ 问：是的。 答：是的。 问：事实上，当他们确定这处房产对他们有兴趣时，你被选中进行这次销售，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 156 / 230页 答：是的。 问：对吗？ 答：是的。 施洛夫律师说：好的。如果我可以仅供证人和我查看一下辩方证物 60612。 问：你知道国家历史名胜名录是什么吗？ 答：再说一次，我不是挂牌代理，但因为这座房子的历史意义，它被登记了，但我不知道在哪些 名录中。 问：你能进一步解释一下这处房产的历史意义吗？ 施洛夫律师说：你可以把它收起来。对不起。 答：再说一次，我不是挂牌代理，所以我没有那种详细信息。 问：你在推销之前是否熟悉过这处房产，对吗？ 答：我没有推销这处房产。我不是挂牌代理。 问：对不起，我道歉。在你准备出售之前，对吗？ 答：是的，我知道克罗克庄园，但我不确定它的历史价值在哪些方面注册了。 问：你知道它被注册为历史名胜了吗？ 答：是的，这在我们收到的文件中有提到。 施洛夫律师说：好的。所以，请允许我把 60612 重新提出来，仅供证人参考。 问：如果你可以浏览一下文件，看第一页，可能是第二页，第三页。 你认得这份表格吗？ 答：不，我从未见过这份表格。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 157 / 230页 问：我知道你可能没见过，但你知道国家历史名胜名录注册表格是什么吗？ 答：我从未为一栋房子做过历史注册。 问：好的。但你知道被列入国家历史名胜名录意味着什么吗？ 答：再说一次，我熟悉注册房屋的情况，知道在房屋注册时你可以做什么和不能做什么。但我不 能回答这个问题。 问：好的。你坐在这里，是否记得这所房子可以用的多种方式，因为它是注册的？ 答：不。它被列为住宅。 问：你记得它是否被列为多种用途吗？ 答：不。住宅。 施洛夫律师说：你可以把文件收起来。 问：所以据你所说，这所房子只被注册为住宅；那是你的—— 莫里律师说：反对。已经问过并回答过了。 法官说：反对有效。 问：你知道——哦，对不起。 答：这被列为—— 问：我认为法官维持了反对意见，所以你不用—— 法官说：不要回答。 证人说：对不起。 问：坐在这里，Frosini 女士，你知道这所房子是否实际上被注册为可以用作社交俱乐部吗？ 答：不。是住宅。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 158 / 230页 问：我没有问你它是否是住宅。我的问题是：坐在这里，你知道这所房子是否可以用作社交俱乐 部吗？ 莫里律师说：反对。已经问过并回答过了。 法官说：反对有效。 问：在你出售之前，你是否熟悉这所房子的不同用途？ 答：不。 问：在被 Taurus SB Fund接触之前，你是否试图出售这所房子？ 答：不，在这之前没有。 问：当你开始出售时——可以说你想要这所房子卖出去吗？ 莫里律师说：反对，法官大人。错误陈述。Frosini 女士是买方代表，不是卖方。 法官说：所以她在交易中不代表卖方，她代表买方。反对有效。 问：你希望有人买下这所房子，对吗？ 答：我不是挂牌代理，所以卖方希望房子卖出去。我代表买方，不是挂牌代理，不是卖方。我不 代表卖方。 问：好的。你代表买方，对吗？ 答：对。 问：如果房子卖出去了你会挣钱吗？ 答：是的。经纪人会得到佣金。 问：对。所以如果你代表买方，你仍然希望房子卖出去，对吗？ 答：那是我们的业务。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 159 / 230页 问：对。否则你怎么挣钱，对吗？ 答：对。 问：好的。你希望确保买方继续购买，对吗？ 答：我希望买方买到房子，如果不是通过我，如果房子适合买方。 问：而且这对你有好处，对吗？ 答：我不能回答这个——我的重点是我的客户，我的卖方和买方，对他们最好。我不是看我的口 袋。这是我的工作，但我不看我的口袋。我尽力为我的卖方和买方做最好的事。 问：好的。你想确保你为买方做最好的事，你想确保你有关于房产的所有信息，对吗？ 答：对。 问：你想准确地知道买方可以将房产用于什么用途，对吗？ 答：对，但我把它展示为住宅。 问：你认为你在卖住宅，对吗？ 莫里律师说：法官大人，反对。再次将她误认为是卖方。 法官说：所以—— 施洛夫律师说：我会重新措辞，法官大人。 法官说：好的。 问：买方没有要求看住宅，对吗？买方要求看特定的房产？ 法官说：你可以回答。 答：房子在 MLS上列为住宅。买方确实要求看这两处房产。 问：买方要求看这两处房产。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 160 / 230页 答：是的，两处房产。 问：对吗？从未说是住宅，说的是房产，对吗？ 莫里律师说：反对，法官大人。证人在作证，而不是施洛夫女士。 法官说：所以你可以问她买方是否使用了“住宅”或“房产”这个词。 问：买方使用了“房产”这个词，对吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：好的。让我再给你看一下标记为辩方证据 60612，仅供识别。 施洛夫律师说：如果我可以看一下第 3页，共 4页。 法官大人，其实，我可以说几句话吗？ 法官说：好的，请继续。 问：你记得这处房产被称为 Crocker McMillin Mansion/Immaculate Conception Seminary吗？ 施洛夫律师说：你可以把它收起来。 答：我个人从未见过这个称呼。 问：今天坐在这里，你知道是否有不同的人参观过那处房产，并且作为营销的一部分，被某些人 参观过？ 答：我——我不是代表卖方，所以我不知道他们向谁展示了这所房子。 问：好的。因为你代表买方，所以你并没有真正尝试“出售”这个房产，对吗？ 答：我没有在推广它。我在为买方工作，如果买方想要这个房产，那么绝对地，我会帮助买方购 买这个房产。 问：很公平。你知道卖方是否曾将其推广为一个可以明确用作社交俱乐部的地方吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 161 / 230页 莫里律师说：反对，法官大人。Frosini 女士怎么会知道这个？ 施洛夫律师说：因为她会与卖方及其代理互动。 法官说：你可以回答这个问题。 答：卖方——你知道，我不知道他对这所房子做了什么。 问：很好。 施洛夫律师说：谢谢。我没有其他问题了。 法官说：重定向？ 莫里律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 重定向询问 由检方律师莫里律师提问： 问：Frosini 女士，交叉询问中问到一些关于 Taurus Fund的问题。你记得吗？ 答：记得。 问：是谁告诉你克罗克庄园的购买实体是 Taurus Fund SB 的？ 答：Aaron Mitchell。 问：Aaron Mitchell在购买克罗克庄园时介绍给你的是哪些人？ 答：郭家。 莫里律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果可以请你调出政府证物 1101第 8页。 问：聚焦于 Aaron Mitchell的第一条短信，Frosini 女士，这是关于克罗克庄园购买实体的问 题，对吗？ 施洛夫律师说：反对，法官大人。超出了范围。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 162 / 230页 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：Aaron说他需要查看是谁将成为购买实体，是的。 问：你知道 Aaron Mitchell是否向英国的某人询问过购买实体的名字吗？ 答：不知道。 莫里律师说：谢谢，法官大人。没有其他问题了。 施洛夫律师说：我可以吗，法官大人？ 法官说：可以。 施洛夫律师说：能再把那个调出来吗，谢谢。 我们可以放大一点。 再交叉询问 由辩方律师施洛夫女士提问： 问：你和 Aaron Mitchell来回发短信，对吗？ 答：对。 问：“Aaron，请给我打电话。谢谢。”这是你发的短信吗？ 答：是的。 问：然后他回复了你，对吗？ 答：对。 问：2021 年 12 月 1 日？ 答：对。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 163 / 230页 问：下午 5:47？ 答：对。 问：“需要与英国的某人谈谈关于购买实体的事。” 答：那是 Aaron说的。 问：什么是实体？ 答：因为我问了—— 问：什么是实体？ 答：购买房产的实体，房子。 问：不是个人，对吗？ 答：对。 问：不是个人，对吗？ 答：对。 问：“明早会给你答复”，他要与英国的某人谈谈？ 答：是的，对。 问：你说“谢谢 Aaron”，对吗？ 答：对。 问：你在这个话题上没有其他问题了，对吗？ 答：对。 问：没有关于购买实体的任何问题，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 164 / 230页 答：对。 施洛夫律师说：没有其他问题了。 莫里律师说：简短地，法官大人。 重定向询问 由检方莫里律师提问： 问：Frosini 女士，你知道余建明住在哪里吗？ 答：余建明？ 施洛夫律师说：反对。超出了范围。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 证人说：对不起，谁？ 问：余建明。 答：不知道。 莫里律师说：谢谢。没有其他问题了。 施洛夫律师说：我还有一个问题，法官大人。 再交叉询问 由辩方律师施洛夫女士提问： 问：你知道余建明是谁吗？ 答：不知道。 施洛夫律师说：好的，谢谢。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 165 / 230页 法官说：好的。你可以离开了，谢谢。 证人说：谢谢。 法官说：政府可以传唤下一个证人。 （证人退场）
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 166 / 230页 芬克律师说：政府传唤利玛丽·雷耶斯。 法庭书记员说：请举起右手。 （证人宣誓） 法庭书记员说：谢谢。 法官说：好的，请坐下。把麦克风放得非常靠近嘴巴，这样我们才能听到你说话。大声 说出你的名字并拼写出来。 证人说：我叫利玛丽·雷耶斯，拼写为 L-I-M-A-R-I-E，R-E—— 法官说：我很难听清楚，所以你需要把麦克风放得非常靠近嘴巴，并大声说话。 证人说：我叫利玛丽·雷耶斯，拼写为 L-I-M-A-R-I-E，R-E-Y-E-S。 法官说：你可以问了。 芬克律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 利玛丽·雷耶斯， 由政府传唤作为证人， 在宣誓后作如下证词： 直接询问 由检方律师芬克先生进行： 问：下午好。 答：下午好。 问：你住在美国哪个地区？ 答：波多黎各。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 167 / 230页 问：你目前在哪工作？ 答：我一直在失业。现在我在我的活动策划业务中工作。 问：什么业务？ 答：活动策划。 问：那家公司的名字是什么？ 答：Sprinkle Events。 问：Sprinkle Events 策划什么类型的活动？ 答：我们做儿童派对、生日派对和小型企业活动。 问：Sprinkle Events 有多少员工？ 答：只有我。 问：Sprinkle Events 策划了多少活动？ 答：大约五个。 问：你说过儿童派对。派对的孩子多大？ 答：主要是一到 十岁。 问：你在 Sprinkle Events工作多久了？ 答：自去年十一月起。 问：这些活动的大致预算是多少？ 答：大约 2500 美元。 问：你说在 Sprinkle Events之前你失业了一段时间？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 168 / 230页 答：是的。 问：在那之前，你在哪里工作？ 答：我在 G-Clubs工作。 问：你在 G-Clubs的角色是什么？ 答：角色是变化的。我开始是市场营销和活动副总裁；后来成为临时首席执行官，再后来是首席 执行官。 法官说：你需要靠近麦克风，这样法庭中的每个人都能听到你说话。 问：你什么时候开始在 G-Clubs工作的，大约时间？ 答：2020 年 12 月。 问：你开始时的职位是什么？ 答：市场营销和活动副总裁。 问：你什么时候成为临时首席执行官？ 答：���约是 2021 年 2 月。 问：你什么时候成为首席执行官？ 答：大约是 2021 年夏天。 问：雷耶斯女士，作为 G-Clubs的首席执行官，你是否对 G-Clubs的所有事务有最终决策权？ 答：没有。 问：你负责 G-Clubs吗？ 答：不，我没有。 问：作为首席执行官的一部分，你是否定期了解G-Clubs的月度收入情况？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 169 / 230页 答：不定期了解。 问：你制定 G-Clubs的预算吗？ 答：不。 问：作为 G-Clubs的首席执行官，你向谁汇报工作？ 答：我向终极受益所有者汇报，UBO，何先生。 法官说：你的声音很低，我需要你大声说话，因为记录员要写下你说的话，后排的人也 需要听到你的证词，所以大声说。 证人说：对不起。 问：当你是 G-Clubs的首席执行官时，你向谁汇报工作？ 答：何先生。 问：他的名字是什么？ 答：何浩然。 问：怎么拼写何？ 答：H-E。 问：你还向其他人汇报工作吗？ 答：是的，我也向雁平汇报。 问：她的姓是什么？ 答：王。 问：你什么时候离开 G-Clubs的？ 答：2023 年 3 月。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 170 / 230页 问：总的来说，雷耶斯女士，你担任G-Clubs的临时和正式首席执行官有多长时间？ 答：我在 G-Clubs工作了大约两年半。 问：你对 G-Clubs的理解是什么？ 答：这是一个向会员提供福利的会员俱乐部。 问：G-Clubs是一个政治组织吗？ 答：不是。 问：成为 G-Clubs 会员的费用是多少？ 答：取决于不同的等级，从 1万美元到 5 万美元不等。 问：有多少个等级？ 答：五个。 问：每个等级的费用是多少？ 答：一级 1万美元，二级 2万美元，三级 3万美元，四级 4万美元，五级 5万美元。 问：会员有年费吗？ 答：有。所以在初始费用之后，年费是他们等级的 5%。 问：如果会员不支付年费，会发生什么？ 答：他们的会员资格会被停用。 问：如果被停用，会员还能使用G-Clubs提供的福利吗？ 答：不能。 问：雷耶斯女士，G-Clubs为其会员提供G-Clubs的股票吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 171 / 230页 答：没有。 问：G-Clubs为其会员提供G Fashion的股票吗？ 答：没有。 问：G-Clubs为其会员提供任何公司的股票吗？ 答：没有。 问：G-Clubs是一个投资俱乐部吗？ 答：不是。 芬克律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请展示证据中的 GX C160-V。跳到 11:35。 问：雷耶斯女士，你认得屏幕上的人吗？ 答：是的。 问：他是谁？ 答：郭先生。 问：他的名字是什么？ 答：郭文贵。 问：你知道他有其他名字吗？ 答：郭。 问：怎么拼写？ 答：K-W-O-K？我不确定。 问：你在 G-Clubs工作时，你和其他人称郭文贵为其他称呼吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 172 / 230页 答：我听过“老板”，“校长”。 芬克律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请播放那个视频。 （视频播放） 芬克律师说：暂停。 问：雷耶斯女士，郭先生刚才说的，如果你获得G-Clubs的 5 万美元会员资格，你会得到 G Fashion的股票，这是真的吗？ 答：不。 问：你在法庭上看到郭先生了吗？ 答：是的。 问：你能指出他吗—— 卡马拉珠律师说：我们同意身份，法官大人。 法官说：好的，继续。 问：G-Clubs的会员资格有限制吗？仅有特定空间可用？ 答：没有。 芬克律师说：你可以收起来。 问：你在 G-Clubs工作期间，看过刚才在法庭上看的那个视频吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：当你是 G-Clubs的首席执行官时，是否有某个时候你意识到 G-Clubs的会员期望获得股 票？ 答：是的，有时候。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 173 / 230页 法官说：我要提醒你提高音量，这样陪审团和我们其他人都能听到你的证词。 问：你可以把麦克风放近点，随意移动使自己舒适。尽量直接对着麦克风说话，好吗？ 雷耶斯女士，你对 G-Clubs的会员期望在购买 G-Clubs 会员资格时获得股票有何理解？ 卡马拉珠律师说：反对。 法官说：反对无效。 问：你可以回答。 答：你能重复一下问题吗？对不起。 问：你对 G-Clubs的会员期望在购买 G-Clubs 会员资格时获得股票有何理解？ 答：曾有一个视频，郭先生在视频中提到他们会得到股票。 问：雷耶斯女士，当你是 G-Clubs的首席执行官时，你何时告诉郭先生不应该在视频中说 G- Clubs的会员会获得股票？ 卡马拉珠律师说：反对。缺乏基础。 法官说：好的。那么我们慢一点。 芬克律师说：好的。 问：雷耶斯女士，当你是 G-Clubs的首席执行官时，你有没有在某个时候告诉郭先生不要在视 频中说 G-Clubs的会员会获得股票？ 答：没有。 问：你为什么没告诉他？ 答：我觉得我没有权力对他说这些话。 问：你说你没有权力对郭先生说这些话是什么意思？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 174 / 230页 答：我不认为我是能说这些话的人。我依赖于老板，不是我。 问：谁是老板？ 答：何先生。 问：我们稍后会回到 G-Clubs。 雷耶斯女士，你是在政府的协议下作证吗？ 答：是的。 问：那是什么类型的协议，或者那个协议叫什么？ 答：不起诉协议。 问：你对你在不起诉协议下的义务有什么理解？ 答：我必须说实话，在被问及时提供信息，参加会议，如果被要求就作证，不犯罪。 问：如果你履行了不起诉协议下的义务，政府承诺会为你做什么？ 答：在我在 G-Clubs工作期间不会指控我任何犯罪。 问：我没听清最后部分。 答：在我在 G-Clubs工作期间。 法官说：也许你需要把麦克风靠近一些，几乎触碰到它。靠近点。 芬克律师说：你可以移动麦克风，没关系。好吗？你可以移动它。 问：除了不起诉协议涵盖你在 G-Clubs的行为，它还涵盖其他任何东西吗？ 答：对不起。你能再重复一遍吗？ 问：当然。你说不起诉协议，如果你履行了协议下的义务，政府不会因为你在 G-Clubs的工作 指控你。除此之外，政府还有什么不会指控你的吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 175 / 230页 答：没有。 问：如果你今天在这里撒谎，你的不起诉协议会发生什么？ 答：它会被取消，作废。 问：如果你今天在这里撒谎，你会被指控伪证罪吗？ 答：会的。 问：你过去向政府提供的陈述，如果你的不起诉协议被撕毁，这些陈述会被用来对付你吗？ 答：我相信会。 问：在你今天的证词前，你大约与政府见了几次面？ 答：我会说超过十次。 问：雷耶斯女士，这次审判的结果是否会影响你的不起诉协议是否被撕毁？ 卡马拉珠律师说：反对，形式问题。 问：我会重新措辞，撤回。 这次审判的结果是否会影响你的不起诉协议？ 答：不会。 问：谁是 Steve Weber？ 答：Steve Weber 是面试我 G-Clubs职位的招聘人员。 问：在你与 Steve Weber面试之后，你还与谁面试了？ 答：我与 Jessica和雁平面试了。 芬克律师说：我们可以展示证据中的政府证物 102 吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 176 / 230页 问：雷耶斯女士，政府证物 102中的人是谁？ 答：雁平。 问：在你为 G-Clubs 面试时，雁平问了你什么问题？ 答：她问了我关于我的经历和我过去的工作、我的活动经验以及我之前做了什么。 问：雷耶斯女士，你会说什么语言？ 答：西班牙语和英语。 问：你会说普通话吗？ 答：不会。 问：Wang 女士问你是否会说普通话吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：雁平问你关于你的政治信仰吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：她问你关于中国共产党吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：她问你关于中国民主的立场吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你对中国共产党有什么立场吗？ 答：我没有立场。 问：你关注中国政治吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 177 / 230页 答：没有。 问：你会说你熟悉中国文化吗？ 答：不会。 问：雁平在面试中提到新中国联邦吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你是新中国联邦的成员吗？ 答：不是。 问：雁平在面试中提到 G-Clubs与爆料革命有关吗？ 答：我不记得了。 芬克律师说：我们可以展示标记为 GX BR470，仅供证人查看的文件吗？ 请翻到下一页。 再下一页。 先把它拿下来。 请稍等一下。 芬克律师说：雷耶斯女士，在你与雁平的面试中，雁平提到过一个叫 Victor 的人吗？ 答：对不起。在我的—— 问：在你为 G-Clubs 面试时，雁平提到过一个叫 Victor 的人吗？ 答：不在面试中，但在不同的沟通中是的。 问：Victor 是谁？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 178 / 230页 答：当时我不知道，但后来我知道他是一名律师。 问：他的姓是什么？ 答：Cerda。 芬克律师说：请展示证据中的 GX 109。 问：GX 109中的这个人是谁？ 答：Victor。 问：雁平在你的 G-Clubs 面试过程中为什么提到 Victor，你知道吗？ 答：我不知道。 卡马拉珠律师说：反对，形式问题。 法官说：反对有效。她怎么可能知道雁平的想法。 问：雁平在你 G-Clubs 面试时提到 Victor 的原因是什么？ 答：他说他可能会联系我。 问：为了什么？ 答：面试。 问：在你与雁平面试之后，你被录用了吗？ 答：是的，我被录用了。 问：担任什么职务？ 答：市场营销和活动副总裁。 问：你开始在 G-Clubs的工资是多少？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 179 / 230页 答：大约 10万美元。 问：在 G-Clubs之前你在做什么工作？ 答：活动经理。 问：你之前工作的工资是多少？ 答：大约 6万美元。 问：你开始工作时，G-Clubs的办公室位于哪里？ 答：刚开始是一个共享办公空间，后来我们在圣胡安有了自己的办公室。 问：共享办公空间在哪里？ 答：圣胡安。 问：波多黎各吗？ 答：对。 问：你开始工作时，圣胡安的共享办公空间有多少员工？ 答：只有我。 问：你对 G-Clubs在波多黎各的设立有什么理解吗？ 答：据我理解是为了享受税收优惠。 问：你在 G-Clubs工作时，工资是如何发放的？ 答：通过直接存款。 问：G-Clubs提供健康保险吗？ 答：提供。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 180 / 230页 问：有工资系统吗？ 答：有。 问：你在 G-Clubs工作时，认为它是一家合法的企业吗？ 答：是的。 问：你认为自己犯了任何罪吗？ 答：没有。 问：在你之后还有其他员工被雇用吗？ 答：有。 问：在你在 G-Clubs工作期间，大约有多少员工？范围是多少？ 答：14。 问：你说你从共享办公空间搬到了另一个办公室，对吗？ 答：对。 问：那个办公室位于哪里？ 答：也是在圣胡安。 问：在哪？是办公楼吗？你能描述一下那个办公室吗？ 答：是的，那是一栋办公楼，位于圣胡安地区。有一层楼，有海景。 问：你在 G-Clubs工作期间，是否有时候网络或电缆会断掉？ 答：是的。 问：当这种情况发生时，员工们会说什么？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 181 / 230页 答：他们会开玩笑说是中共干的。 问：是什么？ 答：中共。 问：为什么员工们会开玩笑说是中共让网络断了？ 答：因为我们听说很多事情都是中共导致的。 问：你相信是中共让G-Clubs的网络断掉的吗？ 卡马拉珠律师说：反对。 法官说：反对无效。你可以说出你的想法。 问：你可以回答。 答：我不知道。 问：据你所知，G-Clubs是什么时候开始的？你知道具体日期吗？ 答：2020 年。 问：你提到何浩然，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：你对他在 G-Clubs的角色有什么理解？ 答：终极受益所有者。 芬克律师说：请展示标记为 GX 112 的文件。 问：你认得GX 112中的人吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 182 / 230页 问：他是谁？ 答：何先生。 芬克律师说：政府提交证据 112。 卡马拉珠律师说：没有反对。 法官说：证据被接纳。 （政府证物 112 被接纳为证据） 问：雷耶斯女士，你通过什么方式与 He先生沟通？ 答：我通过电子邮件、WhatsApp和语音通话与他沟通。 问：He先生的电子邮件地址是什么？ 答：[email protected]。 问：Proton Mail是什么？ 答：他用的电子邮件平台。 问：你在 G-Clubs的电子邮件地址是什么？ 答：l雷耶斯@gclubs.com。 问：为什么你的电子邮件地址是以 gclubs.com结尾，而何先生用的是 Proton Mail地址？ 卡马拉珠律师说：反对，形式问题。 法官说：我允许这个问题。 问：你可以回答。 答：我不知道。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 183 / 230页 问：在波多黎各与你一起工作的其他员工，他们使用的是 Proton邮件地址还是 G-Clubs邮件地 址？ 答：G-Clubs。 问：你对何先生在哪里的理解是什么？ 答：他住在哪里吗？ 问：对。 答：在英国。 问：何先生曾经去过波多黎各的办公室吗？ 答：没有。 问：你见过何先生几次？ 答：两次。 问：当你是 G-Clubs的临时 CEO和 CEO时，你多长时间和何先生说话一次？ 答：这取决于任务。不经常，仅根据他的要求。 问：何先生给你分配了什么样的任务？ 答：各种任务。可能是请求我们处理贷款协议，或联系潜在合作伙伴，银行的支持文件等。 问：你说的贷款协议是什么意思？ 答：会有一个请求来做一些特定的贷款，我们会准备一系列不同的文件。 问：贷款请求会来自谁？ 答：这取决于情况。可能来自何先生，有时来自雁平。 问：你曾经决定贷款吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 184 / 230页 答：没有，我没有。 问：G-Clubs向哪些实体提供贷款？ 答：会是 G-Clubs Operations向 G-Clubs International BVI提供贷款。 问：G-Clubs 曾经向个人提供贷款吗？ 答：有一次是向一个个人提供的，是的。 问：G-Clubs向哪个个人提供了贷款？ 答：郭强。 问：郭强是谁？ 答：郭先生的儿子。 问：何先生请求你帮助处理的贷款大约有多少笔？ 答：不确定，但超过五笔。 问：何先生请求你帮助处理的贷款总金额是多少？ 答：我不具体记得。 问：大约多少？ 答：我会说是几百万。 问：多少百万？ 答：也许超过一亿。 问：超过一亿美元？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 185 / 230页 问：当你是 G-Clubs的员工时，何先生如何对待你？ 答：这取决于情况，有时候他会提高声音，有时候我感觉不到被重视。他会说“你们波多黎各人 很慢”。 问：何先生抱怨你在什么事情上很慢？ 答：各种任务，但总体来说很慢。 问：你提到 G-Clubs向郭强提供了一笔贷款。你对何先生和郭强之间关系的性质有何了解吗？ 答：我知道他们是大学朋友。 芬克律师说：我们可以展示一下政府证物 102 吗，洛夫特斯女士。 问：雷耶斯女士，据你所知，雁平在 G-Clubs的工资单上吗？ 答：没有。 问：她在 G-Clubs 有正式职衔吗？ 答：没有。 问：你和其他人在 G-Clubs是如何称呼她的？ 卡马拉珠律师说：反对，问题形式不当。 法官说：请分开提问。 芬克律师说：抱歉。 问：在 G-Clubs，雁平被称为什么？ 答：她的名字。 问：除了她的名字，还有其他称呼吗？ 答：作为代表。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 186 / 230页 问：代表什么，或谁？ 答：只是代表，但我认为她是何先生的代表。 问：雁平为 G-Clubs 处理什么样的事务？ 答：她会在不同事务上提供指示，从贷款到财务，甚至活动，有时候审核 PRF 表格，涉及不同 方面，法律等。 问：你提到贷款。是刚才提到的和何先生相关的同样的贷款吗？ 答：是的。 问：你通过什么方式与雁平沟通？ 答：随着时间的推移发生了变化。很早期是通过邮件，然后是WhatsApp，后来是 Signal，还有 语音通话。 问：雁平如何对待作为 G-Clubs员工的你？ 答：她对我很好。只是当事情不完全按照推荐的那样进行时，可能会有点紧张。 问：有什么问题让你和雁平之间紧张吗？ 答：我记得有一次请求转移一些资金，而有建议不这样做，那时就有点紧张。有一次—— 法官说：等一下。是谁建议不这样做，又是谁提出的请求？ 证人说：法律建议不这样做。 法官说：当你说法律时，你是指律师吗？ 证人说：是的，律师。 法官说：好的，请继续。谁提出的请求？ 证人说：这次是雁平。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 187 / 230页 问：建议不要转账的律师是 G-Clubs的内部律师吗？ 答：是的。 问：当你向雁平传达这个建议时，她的反应是什么？ 答：她说我们必须做，不是原话，但如果我们不做，就像是我的错，如果出了问题就是我的责 任。 问：这笔转账的金额是多少？ 答：据我记得，大约五百万。 问：这笔钱转到哪里？ 答：到一个银行。我不确定是哪一个。 问：当雁平说如果你不进行这笔转账，后果由你承担时，你感觉如何？ 答：我觉得这不公平。 问：为什么？ 答：因为我是传达律师的建议，我认为应该依赖他们的建议。 问：你有问过雁平为什么如果不进行这笔转账责任在你吗？ 答：没有，我不记得问过。 问：你有问过雁平即使在律师建议不应该时，为什么要进行这笔转账吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你有问过是否可以等一段时间再进行这笔转账吗？ 答：没有，我记得那是指示。 问：当你从雁平那里得到指示时，你通常会问她很多问题吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 188 / 230页 答：不会。 问：当你从何先生那里得到指示时，你通常会问他很多问题吗？ 答：不会。 问：你刚才提到的与雁平的那笔转账，最终进行了吗？你处理了吗？ 答：最终是的。 问：雁平向你表达了——好吧，撤回这个问题。 芬克律师说：我们可以把这个拿下来，洛夫特斯女士。我们可以展示标记为 GX 101 的 文件给证人看吗？ 问：这是谁？ 答：郭先生。 芬克律师说：政府提交 101。 卡马拉珠律师说：没有异议。 法官说：证据被接纳。 （政府证物 101 被接纳为证据） 问：郭文贵在 G-Clubs的职衔是什么？ 答：他是 G-Clubs的发言人。 问：你理解发言人的意思是什么？ 答：代表公司发言。 问：代表谁？ 答：公司。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 189 / 230页 问：公司是指？ 答：G-Clubs。 问：据你所知，郭文贵作为 G-Clubs的发言人有工资吗？ 答：没有。 芬克律师说：我可以走近吗，法官大人？ 法官说：可以。 芬克律师说：递给证人一个文件夹。 问：雷耶斯女士，如果你能看看那个文件夹并翻阅一下。 芬克律师说：法官大人，我要说明的是，那个文件夹包含以下标记为政府证物的文件： GX 1850，GX 1850A；以及以下标记为 GX GC系列的文件：GX GC3，27，28，33，37， 38，40，43，54，59，60，93，95；121，122，197，126，136，150A，150，157，158， 160，168，175，178，184，187，189，198；209，213，218，220，221，222，227， 228，233，242，254，276，286，292，293，299；300，307，309，317，318，332， 334，340，341，346，363，365，372，376，377，379，380，382，387，389，392， 393；483，484，485，486，487，422，423，424，405，406，409，415，416，418， 419，422，427，428，431，432，433，436，438，441，443，444，450，452，453， 454，455，467，470，476，480，484，486，487，494，495，497；504，541，517， 518，520，521，522，525，526，527，528，530-534，536-538，540，544，547，549， 553，553A，和 550。 由检方芬克律师提问： 问：雷耶斯女士，你能翻阅一下那个文件夹吗？ 答：好的。 问：你之前看过那个文件夹的内容吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 190 / 230页 答：是的。 问：文件夹前面有签名吗？ 答：有的。 问：是谁的签名？ 答：是我的。 问：总体来说，文件夹里是什么类型的文件？ 答：邮件，我发送或接收的邮件，贷款文件。 问：来自哪个实体？ 答：G-Clubs。 芬克律师说：政府提交我之前提到的那些证物，希望不需要再读一遍，除非你希望我 读。 （律师讨论） 卡马拉珠律师说：没有异议，我们不要求再读一遍所有证物。 法官说：我没有听到。你说没有异议和？ 卡马拉珠律师说：我们不要求再读一遍所有证物。 法官说：好的。所有证物都被接纳。 芬克律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 （政府证物 1850，1850A 被接纳为证据） （政府证物GC3，GC27，GC28，GC33，GC37，GC38，GC40，GC43，GC54， GC59，GC60，GC93，GC95被接纳为证据）
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 191 / 230页 （政府证物GC121，GC122，GC197，GC126，GC136，GC150A，GC150， GC157，GC158，GC160，GC168，GC175，GC178，GC184，GC187，GC189，GC198 被 接纳为证据） （政府证物GC209，GC213，GC218，GC220，GC221，GC222，GC227， GC228，GC233，GC242，GC254，GC276，GC286，GC292，GC293，GC299 被接纳为证 据） （政府证物GC300，GC307，GC309，GC317，GC318，GC332，GC334， GC340，GC341，GC346，GC363，GC365，GC372，GC376，GC377，GC379，GC380， GC382，GC387，GC389，GC392，GC393 被接纳为证据） （政府证物GC483，GC484，GC485，GC486，GC487，GC422，GC423， GC424，GC405，GC406，GC409，GC415，GC416，GC418，GC419，GC422，GC427， GC428，GC431，GC432，GC433，GC436，GC438，GC441，GC443，GC444，GC450， GC452，GC453，GC454，GC455，GC467，GC470，GC476，GC480，GC484，GC486， GC487，GC494，GC495，GC497 被接纳为证据） （政府证物GC504，GC541，GC517，GC518，GC520，GC521，GC522， GC525，GC526，GC527，GC528，GC530-534，GC536-538，GC540，GC544，GC547， GC549，GC553，GC553A，和 GC550 被接纳为证据） 由检方芬克律师提问： 问：郭先生与 G-Clubs 有合同吗？ 答：是的。 芬克律师说：我们可以展示证据中的政府证物 541 吗？ 问：雷耶斯女士，这是什么文件？ 答：这是 G-Clubs与郭先生之间的协议。 问：好的。上面写着“与郭文贵之间”。你理解这指的是谁？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 192 / 230页 答：郭先生。 芬克律师说：你可以把这个缩小。 问：你看到底部的(b)部分，写着“公司因故解除”吗？ 答：看到了。 芬克律师说：请放大那部分，洛夫特斯女士。 问：雷耶斯女士，当你是 G-Clubs的 CEO时，你认为你可以解雇郭先生作为 G-Clubs的发言 人吗？ 卡马拉珠律师说：反对。这个问题涉及法律定论。 法官说：反对无效。你可以说你是否认为你可以解雇他。 答：我不觉得我可以解雇他。 芬克律师说：你可以缩小这个部分。请翻到下一页。 请放大第 3段，洛夫特斯女士。 问：这里写着报酬 - 五级会员。你理解郭先生作为 G-Clubs的发言人得到了什么报酬？ 答：他有资格获得会员资格。 问：据你所知，除了五级会员资格外，他还得到了其他什么吗？ 答：据我所知，没有。 问：谁谈判了这份合同？ 答：我不知道。 问：谁决定让郭先生成为发言人？ 答：我不知道。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 193 / 230页 问：你问过为什么郭先生是发言人吗？ 答：没有。他在我开始工作时已经在那里了。 问：当你开始工作时，你问过为什么郭先生是��言人吗？ 答：没有。 问：你问过关于这个咨询协议的问题吗？ 答：没有。 芬克律师说：洛夫特斯女士，你可以缩小这个部分并翻到第 7页。 好的，拿下这个。 问：在你在 G-Clubs 期间，G-Clubs通过什么方式进行推广？ 答：发言人是郭先生，通过口口相传，他们会联系志同道合的人。 问：据你所知，郭先生作为发言人是如何推广 G-Clubs的？ 答：通过他的视频。 问：你看过他的视频吗？ 答：没有。 问：G-Clubs 有多少会员？ 答：这取决于时间。会员数量会增加，但在我辞职时，大约有 8000名会员。 问：你提到 G-Clubs通过口口相传推广。你提到通过农场吗？ 答：是的。 问：农场是什么？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 194 / 230页 答：我不确切知道如何描述，但它是一群志同道合的人，分布在不同地方。 问：谁向你解释了农场？ 答：没有人解释过它们是什么，只是提到过农场。 问：你问过雁平，农场是如何参与推广 G-Clubs的吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你问过何先生农场是如何参与推广 G-Clubs的吗？ 答：我不记得了。 问：据你所知，农场是如何参与推广 G-Clubs的？ 答：我不知道。 问：你是农场的一员吗？ 答：不是。 问：你对 8000名G-Clubs 会员的分布有什么理解？ 答：他们分布在世界各地。 问：你对他们说什么语言有什么理解？ 卡马拉珠律师说：所有人吗？ 芬克律师说：是的。 问：你对 8000名G-Clubs 会员通常说的语言有什么理解？ 答：大多数是普通话。 问：当你是 G-Clubs的 CEO时，你认为你熟悉 G-Clubs 会员提到的志同道合的意识形态吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 195 / 230页 答：我熟悉吗？ 问：是的。 答：不熟悉。 问：大约有 8000名G-Clubs 会员，你和其中大约多少人说过话？ 答：大约七个左右。 由检方芬克律师提问： 问：你提到郭先生是 G-Clubs的发言人，G-Clubs的网站上关于郭先生有免责声明吗？ 答：是的，有的。 问：这个免责声明大致上说了什么？ 答：具体文字我不太确定，但大意是 G-Clubs与郭先生所说的话无关。 问：这个免责声明是否有过变化？ 答：是的。 问：什么时候变化的？ 答：在我们收到传票后。 问：“我们”收到传票，“我们”指的是谁？ 答：G-Clubs。 问：传票是从哪里来的？ 答：政府。 问：如果郭先生是 G-Clubs的发言人，为什么网站上会有免责声明说不要将他的言论与 G- Clubs 关联？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 196 / 230页 答：我不确定。它在我开始工作时就已经有了。 问：雷耶斯女士，你是否问过雁平关于免责声明的问题？ 答：我不记得问过。 问：你是否问过何先生关于免责声明的问题？ 答：我不记得问过。 问：G-Clubs 会员会收到会员卡吗？ 答：没有实体卡。 问：如果他们会收到什么东西来表示他们是 G-Clubs的会员，那会是什么？ 答：我记得有一封电子邮件，里面有会员卡的图片。 问：你提到 G-Clubs的价格，有从 10,000 到 50,000 不等的入会费，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：为什么由你决定这些价格？ 答：我没有决定这些价格。 问：是谁决定的？ 答：我不知道。 问：你问过雁平关于这些价格为什么是这样的原因吗？ 答：没有问过。 问：那你问过何先生吗？ 答：没有问过。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 197 / 230页 问：你之前提到 G-Clubs 会员没有收到股票，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：G-Clubs 会员有什么福利吗？ 答：他们在不同时期有不同的福利。我可以列举一下吗？ 问：你可以列举一下，请说。 答：他们在 G Fashion 有不同折扣，具体取决于他们的会员等级。有一段时间，他们可以上传 两个小时的内容到 GTV。他们可以访问郭先生唱或写的歌曲。他们有 24-7 的客户服务访问。他 们可以参加G talks活动和抽奖。 问：还有其他福利吗？ 答：是的。我们有酒店折扣、健身房折扣。有一个游艇包租服务。我们曾经安排过 FAO Schwarz玩具店的私人导览。他们收到圣诞礼物。我们在米其林星级餐厅安排了特别晚宴。我 们有两个酒店住宿，一个在斐济，一个在澳大利亚。我们在一级方程式赛事有折扣。这些是我记 得的。 问：G Fashion的折扣是如何运作的？ 答：根据他们的等级，他们会获得一个固定的折扣。如果是一级会员，会有 10%的折扣。 问：我再问一次，请直接对着麦克风说，以便所有人都能听到你说话。 如果一个会员想要利用G Fashion的折扣，他们怎么做？过程是什么？ 答：通过G Fashion 平台进行。 问：你能解释一下怎么做吗？ 答：具体怎么做我不太确定。 法官说：你说他们可以访问郭先生唱或写的歌曲，他们如何获得这些歌曲的访问权限？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 198 / 230页 证人说：在网站上。网站上有一个链接，写着 G音乐，他们可以在那里看到。 法官说：继续问。 问：谁决定 G-Clubs 会员应该在会员资格中获得G Fashion折扣？ 答：我不知道。 问：你问过任何人为什么这是会员福利吗？ 答：没有问过。 问：你提到会员可以在 GTV上开直播频道，是吗？ 答：是的。 问：谁决定这是会员的福利？ 答：我不知道。 问：你问过任何人为什么吗？ 答：没有问过。 问：你提到有圣诞礼物，那是什么圣诞礼物？ 答：是一个盒子，里面有一个品牌咖啡杯、波多黎各咖啡和饼干。 问：这是寄送的吗？ 答：是的。 问：这是寄送给每个会员的吗？ 答：注册的会员。 问：你提到酒店折扣，对吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 199 / 230页 答：是的。 问：G-Clubs 会员在波多黎各的哪些酒店有折扣？ 答：酒店在波多黎各。 问：波多黎各有多少家酒店会员有折扣？ 答：三家。 问：G-Clubs 会员在波多黎各这三家酒店的折扣是多少？ 答：如果我没记错的话，是 10%的折扣。 问：这是如何运作的？ G-Clubs 会员如何在波多黎各这三家酒店获得 10%的折扣？ 答：他们会收到一个链接或代码，可以用来预订住宿。 问：这是通过G-Clubs预订的吗？ 答：不是。 问：通过谁预订？ 答：会员自己。 问：会员会在哪里预订？ 答：通过酒店的网站。 问：G-Clubs获得这三家酒店为其会员提供的福利花费了多少钱？ 答：没有花费我们。 问：有多少会员利用了在波多黎各这三家酒店的 10%折扣？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 200 / 230页 答：我不知道。 问：你提到在米其林星级餐厅有晚餐，对吗？ 答：是的。 问：雷耶斯女士，请向陪审团成员描述一下这种福利的性质。 答：这是在一家米其林星级餐厅的晚餐。我不记得名字了，在英国。在中国春节期间。 问：这是一个晚上的晚餐还是多个晚餐？ 答：只有那个晚上的晚餐。 问：G-Clubs 会员晚餐是免费的吗？ 答：不是，他们需要付费。这是一个折扣。 问：折扣是多少？ 答：我不记得了。 问：有多少会员利用了这个福利？ 答：我不知道。 问：晚餐的费用是多少？ 答：我不记得了。 问：你提到过包租，是吗？ 答：有一个游艇包租服务。 问：你说的游艇包租是什么意思？ 答：这是一个游艇服务，他们可以预订一次游艇旅行。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 201 / 230页 问：这个游艇服务在哪里？ 答：在波多黎各。 问：G-Clubs 会员可以获得的福利或折扣的性质是什么？ 答：如果我没记错的话，是一个折扣，我记得包括香槟。我不记得具体的百分比。 问：G-Clubs为其会员获得这个福利花费了多少钱？ 答：没有花费我们。 问：有多少G-Clubs 会员利用了这个福利？ 答：我不知道。 问：据你所知，有任何G-Clubs 会员住在波多黎各吗？ 答：据我所知没有。 问：你提到斐济和澳大利亚的什么事情？ 答：是的。 问：你能向陪审团成员描述一下这种福利的性质吗？ 答：他们有一段时间可以在斐济和澳大利亚的酒店住宿，他们会获得折扣和一些其他福利。 问：你说的一段时间是什么意思？ 答：这是一个固定的日期，他们可以在那个日期预订。 问：G-Clubs在斐济和澳大利亚的酒店折扣有多少天？ 答：我不具体记得。 问：大约是多少天，几个月，几周？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 202 / 230页 答：可能是几周。 问：G-Clubs为其会员获得这个福利花费了多少钱？ 答：我们没有花费。 问：据你所知，有多少G-Clubs 会员利用了这个福利？ 答：我不知道。 问：你提到一级方程式比赛？ 答：是的。 问：这种福利的性质是什么？ 答：这是一个折扣，会员可以选择在摩纳哥比赛期间观看比赛的位置，然后一整年也可以观看。 问：与这种福利相关的活动有多少？ 答：对不起，你是什么意思？ 问：是一个比赛还是多个比赛？ 答：第一个是摩纳哥比赛，然后全年都有。 问：有多少比赛，你知道吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：据你所知，有多少G-Clubs 会员利用了一级方程式比赛的福利？ 答：我不知道。 问：你提到过 FAO Schwarz吗？ 答：是的。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 203 / 230页 问：这种福利的性质是什么？ 答：我们关闭了 FAO Schwarz玩具店给我们的会员。他们可以参观玩具店。我们为他们准备了 早餐。他们可以在店内商品上享受折扣，这个活动持续了两天。 问：FAO Schwarz在哪里？ 答：纽约。 问：在纽约的哪里？ 答：我不确定具体地址。 问：曼哈顿？ 答：是的。 问：你参加过那个活动吗？ 答：是的。 问：FAO Schwarz关闭了多长时间？ 答：大约几个小时，大约一个小时。 问：G-Clubs为其会员获得这个福利花费了多少钱？ 答：大约 13,000 美元。 问：有多少G-Clubs 会员参加了你参加的 FAO Schwarz活动？ 答：可能四到五个。 问：纽约 FAO Schwarz活动周围还有其他活动安排吗？ 答：FAO Schwarz活动的最初想法是参观玩具店，然后有一个为孩子们准备的姜饼活动。但那 没有发生。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 204 / 230页 问：是谁取消了孩子们的姜饼活动？ 答：雁平要求取消。 问：我们刚才提到的那些福利，是否适用于每个会员等级？ 答：是的，除了G Fashion，那是根据他们的等级。 问：其他所有福利，每个等级的会员都有，不论是 50,000等级还是 10,000等级？ 答：是的。 问：有G-Clubs的新闻通讯吗？ 答：我们通过电子邮件推广不同的福利。 问：什么是 Orbit？ 答：Orbit是我们为会员使用的客户服务公司。 问：Orbit做什么？ 答：他们会接收会员通过他们提出的问题，然后根据问题或关注点，分配给不同的部门。 问：Orbit 位于哪里？ 答：代理分布在世界各地。 问：Orbit为会员预订旅行吗？ 答：不，他们没有。 问：Orbit为会员预订酒店住宿吗？ 答：不，他们没有。 问：Orbit为会员租车吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 205 / 230页 答：不。 问：Orbit是一个礼宾服务吗？ 答：不。 问：G-Clubs是否为其会员提供礼宾服务？ 答：是的。 问：G-Clubs为其会员提供什么样的礼宾服务？ 答：我们没有。这是被称为礼宾服务。 问：G-Clubs是否为其会员提供使用的豪华跑车？ 答：不。 问：G-Clubs是否为其会员提供住宿的房屋？ 答：不。 问：据你所知，G-Clubs 曾经购买过豪宅吗？ 答：据我所知没有。 问：你去过 675 Ramapo Boulevard 这个地方吗？ 答：对不起。 问：你去过 675 Ramapo Boulevard 这个地方吗？ 答：我不知道这个地方在哪里。 问：你知道 Crocker豪宅吗？ 答：什么？对不起。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 206 / 230页 问：Crocker豪宅？ 答：不。 问：你知道G-Clubs 曾经在新泽西购买过房产吗？ 答：据我所知没有。 问：你知道G-Clubs 曾经在美国购买过房产吗？ 答：据我所知没有。 问：你知道G-Clubs 曾经在地球上的任何地方购买过房产吗？ 答：据我所知没有。 问：我们可以展示证据中的政府证物 134 吗？ 雷耶斯女士，你能在屏幕上看到这个吗？ 答：能。 问：你知道这是哪里吗？ 答：不知道。 问：据你所知，这是 G-Clubs拥有的财产吗？ 答：据我所知不是。 问：我们可以把它拿下。 雷耶斯女士，有没有过你提议G-Clubs应该为其会员提供一个会所? 答：有。 问：你向谁提出这个建议？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 207 / 230页 答：我们在波多黎各的团队一起讨论过，认为在某个时候为会员提供一个会所是有意义的。 问：你把这个想法提给谁了？ 答：有一次有一个小岛在售卖，我向雁平提出了这个建议。 问：那个小岛在哪里？ 答：在波多黎各。 问：那个小岛大概多少钱？ 答：我不太确定，但大概是几百万，可能超过五百万。我不确切知道。 问：是多于还是少于 1200万？ 答：我不确定。我想是超过五百万。 问：王雁平对于你提议购乐这个岛屿作为会员的用途时说了什么？如果有的话。 答：最后，购买一个岛屿因为其价值而变得没有意义。 问：谁决定花多少钱购买 G-Clubs的东西？ 答：具体购买什么东西？ 问：你能花钱购买 G-Clubs的东西吗？ 答：有些东西可以。 问：你能花 G-Clubs的钱购买什么东西？ 答：比如我们有一个活动的午餐，我会花钱买，办公用品；例如 FAO Schwarz活动。 问：雷耶斯女士，什么是多重会员？ 答：多重会员是指会员可以购买多个会员资格。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】
O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 208 / 230页
问：谁的主意允许会员购买多个会员资格？
答：这个请求来自雁平。
问：我们可以展示证据中的政府证物GC-126 吗？请放大顶部，洛夫特斯女士。
雷耶斯女士，这个文件是关于什么的？
答：这是雁平发给 Jessica和我的电子邮件，关于审查会员协议以允许多重会员。
问：你能读一下底部的电子邮件吗？这是 Jessica Mastrogiovanni 发的，以“请尽快修改会员协
议”开头的部分？
答：请尽快修改会员协议，允许会员购买多个会员资格。需要是无限制的。
问：雁平对此电子邮件的回复是什么？
答：Jessica，请来找我谈这个。
问：雁平在这封电子邮件中使用了什么电子邮件地址？
答：Officework 2020。
问：雁平有像你一样的 G-Clubs域名的电子邮件吗？
答：据我所知没有。
问：我们之前讨论过的好处，多重——撤回。如果会员想要购买，可以购买多少个会员资格？
答：多个，我记得至少可以购买十个。
问：一个会员可以买十个会员资格？
答：是的。
问：对于一个人购买会员资格的数量有限制吗？
答：据我所知没有。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 209 / 230页 问：你有问过雁平为什么G-Clubs 要实施多重会员资格选项吗？ 答：没有。 问：你有问过何先生为什么G-Clubs 要实施多重会员资格选项吗？ 答：据我所知没有。 问：多重会员有什么额外的好处？如果有的话。 答：他们可以多次参加抽奖，有机会参加VIP活动和礼宾服务。 问：你说过多重会员资格可以参加VIP活动，有举办过VIP活动吗？ 答：我们没有举办过。 问：多重会员有礼宾服务吗？ 答：当时没有。 问：你在 G-Clubs 期间有过其他时间提供礼宾服务吗？ 答：没有。 问：会员在注册时会得到会员协议吗？ 答：在注册时，他们必须完成注册。在线上他们会看到他们的会员协议。 问：他们需要确认吗？ 答：据我所知，他们需要点击一个框进行确认。 问：请把证据中的文件展示出来，洛夫特斯女士，作为政府证物GC-28。这封邮件是谁发的？ 答：这是 Ana 发给 Jessica和我的邮件。 问：这封邮件的附件叫什么名字？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 210 / 230页 答：G-Clubs 会员协议，红线多重会员。 问：请放大一下，洛夫特斯女士。这是对我们之前提到过的那封电子邮件的回复。你能把下面那 封邮件放大吗？在这封邮件的抄送行上写着 officework。 答：看到了。 问：那是谁的邮件地址？ 答：是雁平的。 问：你有没有问王雁平为什么她用那个电子邮件地址来处理 G/Club的业务， [email protected]？ 答：没有。 问：洛夫特斯女士，请翻到下一页。这个会员协议是 Ana Izquierdo调整过的吗？ 答：可以滚动一下吗？是的。 问：洛夫特斯女士，你能否翻到第四页，第 12B段？请再往下翻一点。能放大那部分吗？雷耶 斯女士，你能读一下那段开始于“Member may”的下划线文本吗？ 答：会员可以为自己在 G-Clubs购买多个会员资格，并将为每个会员资格分配一个会员编号。 然而，拥有多个会员资格的会员只能使用一个会员资格享受G/Club合作伙伴的特别价格，并且 不能合并这些会员资格。 问：Ana Izquierdo 还向你汇报了什么？ 答：她会接收雁平的指示。 问：洛夫特斯女士，你可以缩小那部分。如果你可以转到第 16段。请放大第 16段。你能读一 下那一段吗？ 答：不诋毁条款。会员及其每一位直系家庭成员受益人特此同意不对 G-Clubs、其母公 司或关联公司，以及他们各自的所有者、合伙人、高级职员、董事、员工、代理人或其他代表，
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 211 / 230页 包括关键主持人或发言人（明确包括郭文贵先生）进行诋毁。在本协议中，诋毁的定义是对第三 方发表非法的、虚假的、误导性的、诽谤性的、骚扰性的或侮辱性的关于一个或多个上述人员的 声明。本条款中的任何内容均不应禁止或限制会员或直系家庭成员受益人发布关于G-Clubs或 其提供的任何商品或服务的诚实评价或表现评估的能力。 问：根据您的理解，G-Clubs 会员协议中的文本为什么禁止发表关于郭文贵的贬损性言论？如果 有的话。 答：我没有理解。 问：你有问过为什么这个条款会被包含在会员协议中吗？ 答：没有。 问：你可以撤下那个。我能稍等一会儿吗？G-Clubs 有什么关于退款请求的政策吗？如果有的 话。 答：政策随时间而变化。最初是在会员加入后三天内取消，后来延长到 12天或 14天。我不是 很确定。 问：你说最初的政策是三天？ 答：是的，会员获得会员资格后有三天时间可以申请取消。 问：后来延长到 14天，是这样说的吗，或者是 12天？ 答：12或 14天。 问：为什么延长到 12或 14天？ 答：我被告知这是由于某种欧洲法律要求的时间。 问：你在 G-Clubs开始工作时，退款政策严格吗？ 答：是的。 问：有很多退款发放吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 212 / 230页 答：没有。 问：当退款政策变得不严格时，情况发生了变化吗？ 答：是的。 问：退款政策变得不严格的原因是什么？ 答：在 G-Clubs收到传票之后，退款政策变了。 问：来自谁的传票？ 答：政府。 问：雷耶斯女士，你提到的好处之一是——让我退一步。什么是 G Talk？ 答：G Talk最初是打算作为一个面对面的活动。由于 Covid-19，我们不得不转向虚拟，所以它 成了一个我们会讨论不同话题的虚拟活动。我们为我们的会员举办了抽奖活动。 问：发生了什么？你在 G-Clubs 期间举办了多少次G Talk？ 答：我们举办了两次。 问：什么时候举办的？ 答：第一次在 2021 年 2 月。第二次在 2022 年 3 月。 问：你能描述一下 G Talk的内容吗？ 答：视情况而定。第一次，我们讨论了G-Clubs。我们展示了G Fashion系列，并且举办了G Fashion 产品的抽奖活动。还有车辆奖品和现金价值奖。第二次则更倾向于通过爱建立社区，所 以我们展示了不同地点的不同视频，也进行了抽奖活动。 问：G Talk活动在哪里举行？ 答：第一次是虚拟的，所以不同的演讲者在不同的地点。第二次，主要的直播是在纽约的办公 室。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 213 / 230页 问：谁可以观看或如何观看G Talk活动？ 答：据我所知，这是一个提供的链接。 问：所以是在线的吗？ 答：是的。 问：只有会员可以观看G Talk吗？ 答：第一次G Talk只有会员可以参加。第二次G Talk向公众开放。 问：如果有的话，郭文贵在 G Talk活动中扮演了什么角色？ 答：他在 G Talk中发言。 问：我们可以看看作为 GXCT-171 的证据。这是什么文件？ 答：看起来像是 G Talk的议程。 问：如果我们看看GXCT-170。这是什么？ 答：G Talk议程的延续。 问：是你主持的吗？ 答：是的。 问：你在欢迎词中说了什么？ 答：我不记得了。 问：如果我们看看GXCT-172。请放大顶部，洛夫特斯女士。你能读一下顶部的文字吗？ 答：禁止使用的词语或想法清单。 问：这是什么文件？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 214 / 230页 答：这是提供给郭先生的一份禁止使用的词语清单。 问：为什么要给郭先生提供一份禁止使用的词语清单？ 答：我不知道。 问：这份文件的目的是什么？ 答：是一份禁止使用的词语清单。 问：你知道郭先生是否说了这些词语吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：为什么不知道？ 答：我不懂普通话。 问：请滚动下去，洛夫特斯女士。停在这里。你看到顶部的增长和增长预测吗？ 答：看到了。 问：你知道为什么增长和增长预测是郭先生不应该说的词语吗？ 卡马拉珠律师说：反对形式，法官大人。 法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 答：我不知道。 问：参与、参与、业务或利润。你知道为什么这些词语郭先生不应该说吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：GTV。你知道为什么这是郭先生不应该说的词语吗？ 答：我不知道。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 215 / 230页 问：Saraca，你知道为什么这是郭先生不应该说的词语吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：你知道 Saraca是什么吗？ 答：不知道。 问：Voice of Guo, Voice of Good。你知道这是什么吗？ 答：不知道。 问：法治基金, 法治社会。你知道为什么郭先生不应该说这些词语吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：这份清单是针对 G Talk 1还是 G Talk 2 的？ 答：据我所知是针对 G Talk 1 的。 问：G Talk 1 大约是什么时候？ 答：2021 年 2 月。 问：下面几行写着王雁平, 雁平。你知道为什么郭先生不应该提到雁平吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：请滚动下去，洛夫特斯女士。写着 Sara，下面写着木兰。你知道为什么郭先生不应该提到 木兰吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：你知道木兰是谁吗？ 答：我看过迪士尼动画片中的木兰形象，如果你愿意这么说的话。我不知道。 问：你对木兰在 G-Clubs 中的角色有何了解？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 216 / 230页 卡马拉珠律师说：反对基础，法官大人。 法官说：她是否在 G-Clubs 中有角色？ 问：我撤回问题。你对木兰是谁有什么了解？ 答：我不知道她是谁。 问：木兰在 G-Clubs 中扮演了什么角色吗？ 卡马拉珠律师说：同样的反对，法官大人。 法官说：你可以回答。 答：她参与了G Talk的委员会，这就是我看到她图像的地方。 问：你知道铁血组是什么吗？ 答：对不起。 问：铁血团，你知道那是什么吗？ 答：不知道。 问：木兰下面，雷耶斯女士，写着 SEC，调查和诉讼，你知道为什么郭先生不应该说这些词语 吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：金泉，你知道为什么郭先生不应该提到金泉吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：你知道金泉是什么吗？ 答：不知道。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 217 / 230页 问：金泉下面，监管机构，DOJ，检察长，检察官，美国政府。你知道为什么郭先生不应该提到 这些词语吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：请滚动下去。美国政府下面写着 G币, G美元, 喜币, 喜美元。你知道为什么郭先生不应该提 到 G币, G美元, 喜币和喜美元吗？ 答：我不知道。 问：你知道G币和 G美元是什么吗？ 答：不知道。 问：你知道喜币和喜美元是什么吗？ 答：知道。 问：你对喜币和喜美元有什么了解？ 答：它们是支付方式，喜美元是一对一的，喜币会波动。 问：你可以把它拿下来。请展示 GC-511给证人看。这张照片是什么？ 答：是郭先生和我的照片。 芬克律师说：政府提交GC-511。 卡马拉珠律师说：没有异议。 法官说：接纳为证据。 （政府证物GC-511 接纳为证据） 由检方芬克律师继续提问： 问：这张照片在哪里拍的？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 218 / 230页 答：在纽约办公室。 问：纽约办公室在哪里？ 答：我不清楚具体地址。如果我看地图，曼哈顿在前面，所以在左边。如果中央公园在中间，就 在左边。 问：中央公园的左边？ 答：是的。 问：雷耶斯女士，拍这张照片的场合是什么？我要请你把麦克风靠近你。 答：你能重复一下问题吗？ 问：拍这张照片的场合是什么？ 答：这是在第二次G Talk活动期间拍的。 问：谁选择了你的服装？ 答：郭先生。 问：你穿的服装是什么品牌的？ 答：G Fashion。 问：G Talk活动后你保留了那件G Fashion服装吗？ 答：它被提供了，但最终我没有保留。 问：为什么最终没有保留？ 答：因为我们被要求支付费用。 问：谁被要求支付费用？ 答：G-Clubs。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 219 / 230页 问：G-Clubs为你在 G Talk活动期间穿的服装收费多少？ 答：我不记得具体数额了。 问：大概多少？ 答：如果我要猜，大约一千。 卡马拉珠律师说：反对猜测，法官大人。 法官说：不要猜。如果不知道就说不知道。 问：你可以拿下来。雷耶斯女士，你提到 G Talk的抽奖活动。你能解释一下你对抽奖活动的理 解吗？ 答：抽奖活动是，我们有不同的奖品，注册参加活动的会员会被选为幸运获奖者。 问：会员如果被选中可以赢得什么奖品？ 答：我们有车辆奖品，G Fashion 物品，不同的 G Fashion 物品和现金奖励。 问：你知道获奖者是如何被选中的，具体是怎么运作的吗？ 答：有一家抽奖公司，他们负责选出不同的获奖者。 问：请展示已经作为证据的 GX-121。这位是谁？ 答：张勇兵先生。 问：张勇兵先生曾经赢过抽奖吗？ 答：是的。 问：他赢了什么？ 答：一辆兰博基尼。 问：你曾经见过他吗，张勇兵先生？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 220 / 230页 答：亲自见过吗？ 问：是的。 答：是的。 问：请展示作为政府证物GXGC-547。请放大这张图片，洛夫特斯女士。你能读一下这个消息 吗？ 答：这三位会员想参观你的办公室。最好明天从纽约市出发，周日回来。请告知何时可以谈这件 事。谢谢。 问：这条消息发给谁的？ 答：发给——我没看到，但我记得这条消息是发给我的。 问：发给你的？ 答：是的。 问：谁发的？ 答：王雁平发的。 问：你对王雁平的意思有什么理解，这三位会员想参观你的办公室？ 答：有一次三位会员来到我们在波多黎各的办公室参观。 问：他们的名字是什么？ 答：Alex Chi，张勇兵先生和 Sharon或 Shannon。 问：张勇兵先生，就是我们刚刚看到的带着耳机的那个人？ 答：是的。 问：洛夫特斯女士，请缩小，然后向下滚动。请放大第二行。你能读一下吗？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 221 / 230页 答：勇兵先生，张。 问：你理解那个人是谁？ 答：张勇兵先生。 问：戴着耳机的那个人？ 答：是的。 问：张勇兵先生来过波多黎各的办公室吗？ 答：是的。 问：是在 2022 年夏天吗？ 答：据我记忆，是的。 问：你对张勇兵先生访问波多黎各办公室的原因有什么理解？ 答：他们是来参观波多黎各办公室，认识团队，了解各个部门，并讨论G-Clubs的相关事宜。 问：你在波多黎各和张勇兵先生相处了多长时间？ 答：我不记得具体时间。 问：雁平是否让你带勇兵先生出去吃饭？ 答：我不记得她特别告诉我带他们出去吃饭，但她说要好好招待他们，所以我们做了。 问：你和张勇兵先生谈了什么？ 答：我不记得具体内容。 问：你们谈到推翻中国共产党吗？ 答：没有。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 222 / 230页 问：你们谈到反对中国共产党的民主运动吗？ 答：没有。 问：你对张勇兵先生的职业有什么理解？ 答：我理解他是个律师。 问：请把那张图片拿下来。除了勇兵先生赢得的兰博基尼，还有其他会员赢得汽车吗？ 答：还有其他会员赢得了汽车，但据我记忆，他们最终选择了现金。 问：你说他们最终选择了现金是什么意思？ 答：他们没有要实物车，而是选择了车等价值的现金。 问：据你所知，有些会员接受了这些支付吗？ 答：据我所知，是的。 问：所有选择现金的会员都接受了电汇吗？ 答：不，不同的付款方式。有电汇。有时是支票，有时是以会员积分的形式。 问：你说的会员积分形式是什么意思？ 答：奖品的价值会被记入他们的年费或任何他们选择的会员资格中。 问：有些获奖者选择了这种会员积分形式吗？ 答：我记得有一个。 问：你熟悉 [email protected]这个邮箱地址吗？ 答：是的。 问：谁使用这个邮箱地址？
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 223 / 230页 答：法务部门。 问：用于什么目的？ 答：法律事务，取消会员，会员投诉。 问：你说的取消会员是什么意思？ 答：当会员请求取消时，会交给法务部门审核。 问：我们可以看看作为证据的 GXW-17。Ms. 雷耶斯，你能看见屏幕上的内容吗？ 答：能。 问：这是什么？ 答：是 G-Clubs的网站。 问：洛夫特斯女士，请向下滚动，再多滚动一点。请读一下 体验与丰富 下面的文字。 答：我们的礼宾团队精心策划了个性化体验，让您可以独家访问世界上最令人难忘的目的地、产 品和服务。 芬克律师说：法官大人，为了谨慎起见，政府提交GXW-17。我相信它已经在了，但如 果没有，政府提交。 卡马拉珠律师说：没有异议。 法官说：接纳为证据。 （政府证物GXW-17 接纳为证据） 由检方芬克先生继续提问： 问：雷耶斯女士，G-Clubs是否有礼宾团队为其会员精心策划个性化体验？ 答：没有，我们没有。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 224 / 230页 问：G-Clubs网站上的内容是否属实？ 答：不，我们没有提供这些服务。 芬克律师说：政府还提交GXW-16 和 GXW-19。 卡马拉珠律师说：没有异议，法官大人。 法官说：接纳为证据。 （政府证物GXW-16 和 GXW-19 接纳为证据） 由检方芬克律师继续提问： 问：洛夫特斯女士，请展示 GXW-16。这是什么？ 答：是 G-Clubs的网站。 问：请向下滚动一点。顺便问一下，谁选择了这些图片？ 答：营销公司和我们的营销团队。 问：这里写着，你的好奇将带着你追寻。你能读一下下面的文字吗？ 答：G-Clubs的会员可以策划自己独一无二的体验，无论是北西班牙葡萄园上空的热气球之旅， 塞纳河畔的浪漫晚餐，还是私人导览的野生动物园。唯一的限制就是你的想象力。 问：雷耶斯女士，G-Clubs是否为其会员提供热气球之旅？ 答：当时没有。 问：是否提供塞纳河畔的浪漫晚餐？ 答：当时没有。 问：还是私人导览的野生动物园？ 答：当时没有。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 225 / 230页 问：这些关于G-Clubs为会员提供的服务的信息是否属实？ 答：我们当时没有提供这些服务。 问：请继续向下滚动。继续。停在直升机旁边，这里写着保持好奇心 活出灵感 。我读对了吗？ 答：是的。 问：你能读一下下面的文字吗？ 答：你有一个完整的专业团队，不仅为你的愉悦精心策划独特的体验，还与您一起实现那些在您 愿望清单上的项目。 问：G-Clubs是否有一个完整的专业团队为其会员精心策划独特的体验？ 答：当时没有。 问：你在 G-Clubs 期间有过这样的团队吗？ 答：我们正在努力，但当时没有落实。 问：郭先生是否出现在网站上？ 答：是的。 问：他是否有被移除过？ 答：是的。 问：谁要求将他移除网站？ 答：何先生。 问：何先生是否解释了为什么要将郭先生移除网站？ 答：据我所记得，是因为这给他的银行关系带来了困难。
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 226 / 230页 莫里律师说：法官大人，现在是 4:56。如果法官愿意的话，现在是个很好的休息时间， 但当然听从法官的安排。 法官说：可以。陪审团成员们，我们现在结束，明天 9:30准时回到法庭。记住，不要在 你们之间或与其他人讨论这个案子。不要让任何人和你们讨论这件事。不要阅读、观看或收听任 何与此案相关的内容。祝大家晚上愉快，可以离开了。不要讨论你的证词。 法务助理：陪审团退场。 （陪审团不在场） 法官说：请坐下。我们今天结束前还有什么事吗？ 卡马拉珠律师说：辩方没有。 芬克律师说：政府也没有。祝大家晚上愉快。 法官说：你们也一样。 （休庭至 2024 年 6 月 18 日上午 9:00）
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 227 / 230页 索引 （此处为英文原文版对应的页数） 证人作证 詹姆斯·罗伯特·柯林斯·二世 由芬克先生直接询问 第 2775页 由卡马拉珠先生交叉询问 第 2815页 由芬克先生重新询问 第 2892页 CHRISTINE FROSINI 由莫里律师直接询问 第 2897页 由施洛夫女士交叉询问 第 2952页 由莫里律师重新询问 第 2969页 由施洛夫女士再交叉询问 第 2970页 由莫里律师再重新询问 第 2971页 由施洛夫女士再再交叉询问 第 2972页 利玛丽·雷耶斯 由芬克先生直接询问 第 2973页 政府证物 证据编号 接纳时间
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 228 / 230页 MER-5和 MER-6 第 2802页 145和 146 第 2900页 1850, 1850A 第 2998页 GC3, GC27, GC28, GC33, GC37, GC38, 第 2998页 GC40, GC43, GC54, GC59, GC60, GC93, GC95 GC121, GC122, GC197, GC126, GC136, 第 2998页 GC150A, GC150, GC157, GC158, GC160, GC168, GC175, GC178, GC184, GC187, GC189, GC198 GC209, GC213, GC218, GC220, GC221, 第 2998页 GC222, GC227, GC228, GC233, GC242, GC254, GC276, GC286, GC292, GC293, GC299 GC300, GC307, GC309, GC317, GC318, 第 2998页 GC332, GC334, GC340, GC341, GC346, GC363, GC365, GC372, GC376, GC377, GC379, GC380, GC382, GC387, GC389, GC392, GC393 GC483, GC484, GC485, GC486, GC487, 第 2998页 GC422, GC423, GC424, GC405, GC406, GC409, GC415, GC416,
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 229 / 230页 GC418, GC419, GC422, GC427, GC428, GC431, GC432, GC433, GC436, GC438, GC441, GC443, GC444, GC450, GC452, GC453, GC454, GC455, GC467, GC470, GC476, GC480, GC484, GC486, GC487, GC494, GC495, GC497 GC504, GC541, GC517, GC518, GC520, 第 2999页 GC521, GC522, GC525, GC526, GC527, GC528, GC530-534, GC536-538, GC540, GC544, GC547, GC549, GC553, GC553A, GC550 GXW-16 和 GXW-19 第 3035页 MER-8 第 2808页 GXW-17 第 3035页 101 第 2995页 112 第 2989页 113 第 2776页 134 第 2899页 MER138 第 2792页 GC-511 第 3028页
【中文翻译 仅供参考】 O6HBGUO6 2024-6-17 庭审记录 第 230 / 230页 1100 第 2903页 1101 第 2918页 1102 第 2930页 MER1203 第 2784页 MER1204 第 2786页 MER1205 第 2798页 MER-1206 第 2810页 被告证据 证据编号 接纳时间 60554 第 2821页 60556 第 2873页
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