Miles Trial Day 22 - Court transcript and translation 郭文贵庭审第22天庭审记录和翻译

Original Court Transcript(原始庭审记录)

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK

------------------------------x

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

v. 23 Cr. 118 (AT)

MILES GUO,

Defendant. Trial

------------------------------x

New York, N.Y.

June 24, 2024

9:00 a.m.

Before:

HON. ANALISA TORRES,

District Judge

-and a Jury-

APPEARANCES

DAMIAN WILLIAMS

United States Attorney for the

Southern District of New York

BY: MICAH F. FERGENSON

RYAN B. FINKEL

JUSTIN HORTON

JULIANA N. MURRAY

Assistant United States Attorneys

SABRINA P. SHROFF

Attorney for Defendant

PRYOR CASHMAN LLP

Attorneys for Defendant

BY: SIDHARDHA KAMARAJU

MATTHEW BARKAN

ALSTON & BIRD LLP

Attorneys for Defendant

BY: E. SCOTT SCHIRICK

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ALSO PRESENT:

Isabel Loftus, Paralegal Specialist, USAO

Robert Stout, Special Agent, FBI

Jorge Salazar, Defense Paralegal

Tuo Huang, Interpreter (Mandarin)

Shi Feng, Interpreter (Mandarin)

Yu Mark Tang, Interpreter (Mandarin)

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(Trial resumed; jury not present)

THE COURT: Good morning.

ALL COUNSEL: Good morning, your Honor.

THE COURT: Would you make your appearances, please.

MR. FINKEL: Good morning, your Honor. Ryan Finkel

and Justin Horton for the government. We're joined by Isabel

Loftus, a paralegal specialist with our office. Juliana Murray

and Micah Fergenson will be joining us shortly.

MS. SHROFF: Good morning, your Honor. On behalf of

Mr. Kwok, Sabrina Shroff, Sid Kamaraju, Scott Schirick, and

Matt Barkan. Also present at counsel table is Mr. Salazar.

THE COURT: Please be seated.

Is there anything before we get started at 9:30?

MS. SHROFF: Not from the defense, your Honor.

MR. FINKEL: Not so much of an issue from the

government. I just want to update the Court on scheduling, if

the Court would like.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. FINKEL: So the government, assuming we can get a

certain document in today, we believe we'll hopefully be able

to rest tomorrow, if tomorrow is a full day. If tomorrow is

not a full day, I'm not sure. We have, I would say, two

medium-length witnesses today and two short witnesses today.

That's our plan. I'm not sure what the cross is going to be on

the medium-length witnesses. If it's consistent with some

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other crosses, we might not even be able to get those through

today.

We received the defense's witness list over the

weekend, which we appreciate that they provided. There are 11

witnesses on the witness list, possibly 12. We might stip on

one witness. The defense estimates that they can complete

those 12 witnesses——or 11 witnesses assuming the stip——by

July 3rd is my understanding. That does not seem realistic to

the government, particularly if those days are half days. A

lot of the witnesses——I mean, of the witnesses, three of them

are experts, which are going to take some time. There are a

number of witnesses who——I mean, some of them we don't really

know what their testimony is going to be because there's no

26.2 material for those witnesses. We can guess, and I think

it's basically they'll sort of put in Guo's life story and

other issues. I don't know. But in any event, when we've done

the 9:30-to-2:45 days, on average we've done about two

witnesses a day; some days we've done three, some days we've

done one. At that two-witness-a-day clip, we're very easily

into the end of July at this point, and that's assuming the

defendant doesn't testify. And if the defendant

testifies——which, of course, he is entitled to do, and is

entirely his right if he chooses to——I imagine such testimony

will take days. He's going to have to explain, I imagine, all

the videos, the recordings, all the statements, the businesses,

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the investments. It's going to take a lot of time, and so is

the cross.

So the way the government is looking at this is, we

certainly defer to the Court on what makes the most sense in

terms of scheduling. But if the goal is to complete this trial

all in by July 12th, it does not seem feasible to the

government to continue to sit just until 2:45. And maybe it's

extending just a little bit each day or on certain days, but

the government does believe we need to extend the days to make

sure we get all this in. And at a minimum, we would ask your

Honor to at least let the jury know that the week of July 8th,

that sort of last week, would be a full day, because assuming

things go as the defense anticipates, and the government

certainly hopes, it would seem to the government that that week

would be jury addresses and deliberations, which I assume the

Court——and maybe I'm wrong to assume this, but I assume the

Court would want to sit until 5 for those events.

So sort of the bottom line, your Honor, coming back

full circle, is, given what we understand the defense case is

going to be, we believe that the Court should consider sitting

longer days to make sure we meet the end of the trial by

July 12th, which is what the Court predicted for the jury and

what the parties had assumed would be the case.

MR. KAMARAJU: Thank you, your Honor. And good

morning.

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So what I would propose is——I think I heard Mr. Finkel

say that the government would like to discuss with the Court

and the parties the idea of possibly extending certain days,

you know, maybe some a little bit, maybe some a little bit

more. I think it might be productive for us to have a

conversation with the government, because we're not opposed to

doing some modification of the schedule to make sure that we

complete the trial in a timely fashion. I don't know that the

defense believes that that's necessary to sit full 9-to-5 days

every day. And our witnesses, while there are 11 of them, some

of them are, I anticipate——particularly in light of your

Honor's recent ruling——some of them may be under 30 minutes.

And our experts, it's hard for me to envision any of their

direct examinations being more than 60 to 90 minutes. So I

think we'd be well on track, but I think what we would propose

is to have that discussion with the government, see if we can

arrive at something mutual that we all believe can get this

trial done in the right time, propose it to your Honor for your

Honor's consideration, and, if your Honor agrees, then propose

that to the jury. That would be my proposal.

MR. FINKEL: So, your Honor, certainly happy to speak

with defense counsel more about this and try to reach an

agreement. I would just ask two things. One, I think——I'm not

sure, but——a number of the defense witnesses will require a

translator, which will extend matters. If there are three

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experts who are 60 to 90 minutes, let's assume that it's 75

minutes on average, let's say it's a half hour of cross; that

itself is two days. So if they think they're going to put

their entire 11 witnesses in in four days, it just doesn't seem

feasible, candidly. And I wish it was. I hope it moves

quickly. I really do.

The second point, your Honor, is we would ask that

tomorrow, to the extent it works for your Honor and for the

jury, that we would extend the day until either we complete our

witnesses for the day or 5:00, whichever happens sooner. There

is one witness, if we need them——and hopefully we won't,

but——if there's one witness we need for custodial purpose, that

would have to be on Wednesday. That person is not available

until Wednesday morning. But anyway, that's sort of where we

are. But I very much accept the invitation to have a

discussion with defense counsel, and would ask your Honor to

consider sitting tomorrow later.

MR. KAMARAJU: And just on the cross-examination

point, your Honor, we have been working to try to make them

more efficient. We'll continue to do that. I'll just give

your Honor an example. On Friday, I believe Special Agent

Luciano testified on direct for 107 minutes, and I believe

Ms. Shroff's cross-examination was 26 minutes, which is about

the same length of time that Special Agent Luciano testified

about photographs, about towels and slippers, and lead paint

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disclaimers in the contract. So we are working to try to make

our crosses more efficient. I assume the government will do

the same.

We are looking at our witness list. We're trying to

stipulate to certain things with the government to try to even

shorten that list even further. But candidly, our witnesses

are not of the same length that the government's are. We don't

have three- or four- or five-hour witnesses that impact the

average that Mr. Finkel was talking about. So again, I propose

that we speak with the government. Maybe we can come up with a

resolution that avoids your Honor having to resolve a dispute.

But that would be my proposal.

THE COURT: So what I think that I would like to do is

ask them to stay late on Tuesday and Wednesday. I cannot stay

late on Thursday. And so I will ask that question when they

come out this morning, if there's anybody who absolutely cannot

stay late on Wednesday and Thursday. In the meantime, you will

have your discussion. Of course I wish that you had had this

discussion during the break. But I urge you to talk to each

other.

Anything else?

MR. FERGENSON: Yes, your Honor. Just a couple points

to try and streamline the examination of the bankruptcy

witness, Mr. Douglas Skalka. He is a local counsel in

Connecticut to the bankruptcy trustee. In his direct

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examination, we are trying to hue very closely to the narrow

presentation of particularly probative, relevant evidence from

the bankruptcy, as we laid out in our motions in limine and as

the Court ordered we were permitted to do. We hope that it

will be an efficient presentation. And, you know, the first

point, your Honor, is just that by calling someone related to

the bankruptcy, it doesn't mean that cross-examination is now a

trial within a trial about the separate bankruptcy case. It

should be focused, of course, on what was elicited in the

direct examination. That's just one point. And hopefully, to

Mr. Kamaraju's point, the defense is, you know, doing focused

cross-examinations now as well.

There are two other points to raise, your Honor, just

about evidentiary disputes, as I understand them to be

disputes. The first relates to the custodial witness we may

need to call on Wednesday. One of the pieces of evidence we

were hoping to just include in Mr. Skalka's testimony about the

bankruptcy relates to transcripts from what are called 341

meetings of creditors. As I understand it, in a bankruptcy

proceeding, the debtor has to testify at a proceeding that is

sort of organized and administered by the DOJ's Office of the

Trustee. It's a component of the Department of Justice that

sort of helps facilitate bankruptcy proceedings. I'm not an

expert in that, but that is my understanding. They hold these

meetings, they record them, they get transcribed.

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THE COURT: Is it sworn? Are the statements sworn?

MR. FERGENSON: Yes. And Mr. Skalka was not present

at those meetings, but we were still hoping to offer selected

excerpts of the defendant's testimony at that through

Mr. Skalka, since he is sort of our bankruptcy witness, for

this type of evidence. He wasn't present at these meetings,

however. We understand that the defense is going to object on

authenticity grounds to offering these transcripts. Now as

Mr. Finkel indicated, we can call the attorney from the Office

of the Trustee, who is in New Haven. She has court on

Tuesdays. Rather than trying to disrupt the court in New

Haven's schedule, she could be available Wednesday morning to

come and say, yes, you know, this was a recording, this is the

testimony, here's the transcript. And that would be the extent

of it. We're not really sure why that would be necessary to do

that. We're hoping it would be efficient to just offer them

through Mr. Skalka. But that's ultimately up to the defense, I

guess. You know, what Mr. Skalka can say is that, you know, as

local counsel in the bankruptcy proceedings, he received these

transcripts, he's used them in filings, they've been relied on

in court. But like I noted, he wasn't present at the meeting

itself.

The second issue, your Honor, relates to——and I'm not

sure if we want defense counsel to address the first and then I

can raise the second.

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THE COURT: Yes. I'd like to hear from the defense on

that issue of the transcripts.

MR. KAMARAJU: Yes, your Honor. All we're asking for

is for the government to authenticate documents in the way that

the law requires. We are happy to talk to them about potential

stipulations, as we have already, and even in the context of

this document. But I don't think it is asking too much for the

government to introduce evidence through witnesses who can

properly authenticate it. We've had that issue before, during

this trial. And that's it. This witness, I think

Mr. Fergenson essentially conceded, does not have personal

knowledge to authenticate that, and as defense counsel, it's

hard for me to see how I can just automatically stipulate to

something that the government doesn't have a basis for the

witness to put in. So Mr. Skalka, I don't believe, is coming

up first, so if they'd like to continue that discussion, I'm

happy to. But it's pretty clear this witness does not have the

ability to authenticate these transcripts.

THE COURT: But your client certainly would know what

he said, right? In other words, you could stipulate, based

upon your client's representation to you, that these were his

words.

MR. KAMARAJU: Well, they're in English, your Honor,

first of all, so——

THE COURT: Well, of course they could be translated.

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MR. KAMARAJU: They could be, your Honor, but I'm not

sure how that——let me put it this way. My client could tell me

if he recalls, during the course of this interview, giving

these answers in connection with these questions. I don't know

that he'll be able to do that. But even if he was able to do

that, I'm not sure that obviates the government's requirement

to authenticate the documents.

THE COURT: It's not a question of whether it obviates

the government's obligation, it's a question as to whether or

not you'll stipulate. It's your call, of course. You make

your decisions as to how to best represent your client. And so

if there is no stipulation, then that witness will have to be

called.

What is the second issue?

MR. FERGENSON: The second issue, your Honor, is, part

of the testimony relates to this $37 million transfer from the

Himalaya Exchange's bank accounts to the bankruptcy attorney

that was representing Mei Guo, Mr. Guo's daughter, who claimed

to be the owner of the yacht, the Lady May. One of the main

disputes that sort of led to the bankruptcy related to the Lady

May, your Honor, and there was a $37 million loan from the

Himalaya Exchange entities to Mei Guo that was then put in

escrow, because the yacht had been moved outside the

jurisdiction of the United States. It relates to a draft loan

agreement related to that. So the executed loan agreement is

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filed on the docket, filed by both parties in the bankruptcy.

Mr. Skalka is going to introduce that document. There was sort

of a global agreement related to this $37 million escrow early

on in the bankruptcy. There's also an initial draft of that

loan agreement where the lender was not the Himalaya Exchange

entity but ACA Capital Group, which, your Honor may recall, is

the entity that had the bank account in Abu Dhabi that the

government alleges basically used a money laundering slush fund

to cycle fraud proceeds into and then back out of, back into

the United States. That draft loan agreement was produced in

discovery by the attorneys for the entity that is the

borrower——sorry——basically the shell company that Mei Guo was

the listed owner of. And Mr. Skalka, you know, it was produced

in discovery to the trustee. Mr. Skalka has access to that

discovery. It's Bates stamped with that entity's name. He's

going to identify that as a draft loan produced in discovery.

We're going to offer it. We understand the defense is going to

object to that. I just wanted to raise it so maybe we can

handle it now rather than at a sidebar during the jury's time.

THE COURT: So your witness would merely be stating

that this is a document that he received. He doesn't have any

personal connection to the document.

MR. FERGENSON: Correct, your Honor. It's a draft

loan agreement between the, you know, the same——the final

executed version that's filed on the docket by both parties in

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connection with the bankruptcy proceeding. This is just a

draft version of it that was produced by that party in

discovery to the trustee.

THE COURT: So are you saying that the final document

is something that we have a stipulation on?

MR. FERGENSON: No, your Honor.

THE COURT: No.

MR. FERGENSON: I don't think they're objecting to the

final.

THE COURT: They're not objecting to the final.

They're objecting to the——

MR. FERGENSON: I'm not certain. That was my——maybe

I'm assuming. I thought it was the draft.

MR. KAMARAJU: Your Honor, I can clear that up. We

won't object to the final coming in.

THE COURT: But you do object to the draft.

MR. KAMARAJU: We had objected to the draft, your

Honor. Frankly, I was curious about what the basis for

authentication was that Mr. Fergenson was going to address for

the draft.

THE COURT: Well, it's the problem of authentication

that he's raising.

MR. KAMARAJU: Right. I raised the problem of

authentication because I don't think it comports with your

Honor's prior ruling. For example, we dealt with this issue

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with the G Club documents in Ms. Reyes's testimony, and the

government offered them, said that Ms. Reyes could authenticate

them on the basis of her recognizing the signatures and

recognizing those documents as being sort of the packet that

G|CLUBS had typically used. So because she had sort of inside

knowledge, right, because she worked there. Mr. Skalka doesn't

have that.

I think, your Honor, that if I have a discussion with

Mr. Fergenson, we may be able to resolve this issue as well.

THE COURT: I hope so. So you'll talk to each other,

and we'll start at 9:30.

MR. KAMARAJU: Thank you, your Honor.

MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.

(Recess)

THE COURT: Would you have the jurors brought in.

(Continued on next page)

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(Jury present)

THE COURT: Please be seated.

Good morning, jurors.

THE JURORS: Good morning.

THE COURT: Welcome back.

Due to circumstances beyond my control and the control

of the parties, it looks like we're going to need some extra

time; otherwise, I don't think we'll be able to finish by

July 12th. And so I would like you to stay until 5

tomorrow——Tuesday——and Wednesday. So today we stop at 2:45.

Tomorrow you'd be staying until 5, Wednesday until 5, Thursday

until 2:45, and Friday off.

Is there anyone who absolutely cannot do that? If you

would just state your number.

JUROR: 10.

THE COURT: And what is it that you're not able to——

JUROR: I can't on Wednesday. I have——

THE COURT: I can't hear you.

JUROR: I can't on Wednesday.

THE COURT: But tomorrow you can. Okay.

JUROR: I can't on Wednesday either.

THE COURT: So we will not be in session until 5 on

Wednesday.

All righty. So let's continue with the examination of

the witness.

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O6O1GUO1 Buck - Direct

MR. FERGENSON: Yes, your Honor. The government calls

Amy Buck.

THE COURT: All righty.

(Witness sworn)

THE COURT: Please state your name and spell it.

THE WITNESS: Amy Buck Faundez. A-M-Y, B-U-C-K,

F-A-U-N-D-E-Z.

THE COURT: You may inquire.

MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.

AMY BUCK FAUNDEZ,

called as a witness by the Government,

having been duly sworn, testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. Good morning, Ms. Buck.

A. Good morning.

Q. Where do you live?

A. New Jersey.

Q. What do you do for work?

A. I'm a real estate attorney.

MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could please publish

Government Exhibit Z12, at page 19.

Q. Ms. Buck, have you ever seen this before?

A. I have not.

Q. Focusing you on the bottom right, can you read the text in

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the bottom right box.

A. Buck Esq LLC, Attorney Trust Account.

Q. What's the name of your LLC?

A. Buck Esq LLC.

Q. Were you involved in the purchase of the property at 675

Ramapo Valley Road in Mahwah, New Jersey?

A. Yes.

Q. What's the name you refer to that property as?

A. Crocker Mansion.

Q. And what was your role in the purchase?

MS. SHROFF: May I have the exhibit taken down if it's

not being used.

MR. FERGENSON: That's fine, your Honor. We can take

it down.

THE COURT: Okay.

Q. And I'm sorry, Ms. Buck. What was your role in the

purchase of the Crocker Mansion?

A. I represented the purchaser in the transaction.

Q. After the purchase did you continue to perform work in

connection with the Crocker Mansion?

A. I did.

Q. And at a high level, what did you do?

A. I paid invoices to various contractors and vendors in

relation to the property.

Q. Now, Ms. Buck, in whose name was title to the Crocker

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Mansion held?

A. Taurus Fund LLC.

Q. And based on your work with the Crocker Mansion, who did

you understand to own the Crocker Mansion as a practical

matter?

MS. SHROFF: Objection.

THE COURT: You may answer.

A. A family.

Q. Do you know the name of the family?

A. I do not.

Q. Did you ever meet them?

A. I did not.

Q. All right. Now, Ms. Buck, let's back up. How do you

typically get business in your real estate practice?

A. Through word of mouth and referrals.

Q. Was the Crocker Mansion a referral?

A. Yes.

Q. And approximately when was it referred to you?

A. The beginning of December of 2021.

Q. And who referred it?

A. Aaron Mitchell.

Q. And in your initial conversation did you speak with Aaron

Mitchell or someone else?

A. I spoke with his wife Dara.

Q. And what's her last name?

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A. Lawall, L-A-W-A-L-L. I believe that's the name she

practices under. I'm not certain.

Q. And what's her occupation?

A. She's an attorney with her husband.

Q. Now in that initial conversation what did you discuss with

Ms. Lawall?

A. She called me.

MS. SHROFF: Objection to hearsay.

MR. FERGENSON: It's an agent——

THE COURT: You can testify as to the nature of the

discussion.

THE WITNESS: Okay.

A. She reached out to refer this particular matter to me. She

told me the clients were like family to her and they were very

important to them. And she also wanted to inquire about my

ability to do a accelerated transaction. It was a quick cash

transaction.

Q. And Ms. Buck, was it your understanding she represented

this family?

MS. SHROFF: Objection to the leading.

THE COURT: So the witness can testify about the

subject matter but not about actual words stated by the

individual.

MR. FERGENSON: We may need a brief sidebar, your

Honor.

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THE COURT: Okay.

(At the sidebar)

MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Lawall is the wife of Aaron

Mitchell. They have a law firm together, Lawall & Mitchell.

It's a law firm that represents the defendant. They acted as

his agent in the purchase of this New Jersey property. And

so——

THE COURT: The nature of the agency?

MR. FERGENSON: Is the attorney's relationship.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. FERGENSON: And so I think she can testify to what

she was told by the agents of the defendant.

MS. SHROFF: She's not an agent of Mr. Guo. She's a

lawyer who practices law. He's somebody she's married to, but

she's a separate lawyer. I mean, women do get married and

still maintain a very separate professional existence. She

does not have an attorney-client relationship and she's not

acting as the agent.

THE COURT: Is there an attorney-client relationship

with Mr. Guo?

MR. FERGENSON: Yes. That's what she will testify to.

Ms. Lawall, the testimony will be that they have a very

important client to them, it's a family, they're looking for

someone to help quickly close on this property in Mahwah.

That's perfectly permissible for her to explain what she was

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told about the representation by the attorney for the defendant

and his family.

THE COURT: In addition to that, can you just give me

a feel for what else you're going to elicit.

MR. FERGENSON: Yeah, of course. So that's the

initial conversation. After this initial conversation with

Ms. Lawall, she accepts the referral, and then thereafter, her

primary point of contact is Aaron Mitchell, Ms. Lawall's

husband, also the attorney of the defendant of the same law

firm that, you know, the husband and wife's shop. And

thereafter, he's the point of contact, the representative, of

Taurus Fund and the family. And she deals with him and with

others such as Scott Barnett, the defendant's primary

bodyguard; Gladys Chow, the defendant's translator; Sean Jing,

another of the defendant's personal assistants; and she has

communications with them about the closing on the property and

then also payment of invoices for renovations for the family on

the property, purchasing furnishings for the property, you

know, various other works that they use to trace back to

investor money that was sent to Crane and sent to Hamilton and

then to Ms. Buck. That's, in essence, her testimony.

THE COURT: Short witness then.

MR. FERGENSON: That's what I'm hoping, your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. I'm going to allow the

testimony.

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MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I just wanted to make sure

it's noted, we have no objection to Aaron Mitchell and the

remaining people. The government's argument here is designed

to sort of obfuscate the issue. The person I'm objecting to

the hearsay coming in is conversations with Ms. Lawall, who

does not represent the Guo family, has not had any

attorney-client relationship, and that is the narrow scope of

my objection. Mr. Fergenson here went off as to all of the

other people, who, arguably, they've already identified as

agents or, quote-unquote, co-conspirators, but not this woman.

So my objection is narrow, just to this woman's hearsay

interactions with this lawyer.

THE COURT: But I understand him to say that she had

these dealings with the Guo entity.

MS. SHROFF: There is no such evidence. There is only

evidence of a referral. We have no——I'm not finished, sir.

MR. FERGENSON: If I may respond. The Court is

looking at me.

THE COURT: One moment.

MR. FERGENSON: You're correct.

THE COURT: So I'm allowing the testimony.

MS. SHROFF: Where is the relationship between her and

the Guo family?

THE COURT: So he seeks to elicit that testimony, and

I'm relying on his representation as an officer of the court.

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Let's go.

(In open court)

THE COURT: You may continue.

MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. Ms. Buck, what did Ms. Lawall tell you about her client in

that conversation?

MS. SHROFF: Objection. Assumes facts not in

evidence.

Q. What, if anything, did Ms. Lawall tell you about her

client——

MS. SHROFF: Objection.

Q. ——in that conversation?

MS. SHROFF: Objection. Assumes facts not in

evidence.

THE COURT: You'll establish the relationship first.

MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, it's just what she was

told.

MS. SHROFF: Objection.

THE COURT: This is a conversation between whom and

whom?

MR. FERGENSON: Between Ms. Buck and Ms. Lawall.

THE COURT: Okay. Yes, you may continue. You may

answer.

A. She told me that they were clients of theirs for a long

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time and they were like family to them.

Q. Did she tell you the client's name?

A. She did not.

Q. Did you understand——

THE COURT: And just for the benefit of the jury,

Ms. Buck is who? You're Ms. Buck.

THE WITNESS: Me.

THE COURT: Okay. Okay. I just want to make sure

that we know all the parties. Go ahead.

MR. FERGENSON: Understood, your Honor. Thank you.

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. All right. And did you and Ms. Lawall discuss your fees?

A. We did.

Q. And what were your fees?

A. $2,000.

Q. Did you accept the referral from Ms. Lawall?

A. I did.

Q. After you spoke with Ms. Lawall, who was your primary

contact for the Crocker Mansion deal?

A. Aaron Mitchell.

Q. And what did Aaron Mitchell say his role was?

A. He was the authorized representative for the Taurus Fund.

Q. And did Aaron Mitchell tell you the name of the family he

represented?

A. He did not.

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MS. SHROFF: Objection. Assumes facts not in

evidence.

THE COURT: You may answer.

A. He did not.

Q. And Ms. Buck, you can adjust the microphone. If you could

pull it close to you. And you could point it right at your

mouth. It will be easier to hear you.

A. There we go. Better?

Q. Much better. Thank you.

A. Sorry.

MR. FERGENSON: All right. May I approach, your

Honor?

THE COURT: You may.

Q. All right. Ms. Buck, what did I just hand you?

A. The witness binder.

Q. And have you reviewed the government exhibits in that

binder previously?

A. I have.

Q. Does it contain documents you and your company provided to

the government from your work——

MS. SHROFF: Objection to leading.

THE COURT: You may answer.

Q. ——from your work at Crocker Mansion?

A. Yes.

Q. Does it contain invoices and other records related to

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payments you made on behalf of Taurus Fund?

A. Yes.

Q. Is it fair to say Buck Esq LLC regularly maintains such

records as part of its business?

A. Yes.

Q. Does it also contain communications with agents of Taurus

Fund?

A. Yes.

MR. FERGENSON: All right. The government offers the

exhibits in the binder. These are all in the GX BUCK, B-U-C-K,

series. These are Government Exhibits 34, 44, 48, 49, 50, 60,

63, 69, 77, 80, 115, 117, 127, 131, 133, 138, 141, 168, 174,

194, 218, 221, 227, 232, 235, 236, 241, 243, 375, 391, 428,

522, 524, 532, 709, 822, 851, 1204, 1260, 1261, and then 1274

through 1291, and 1293 through 1296. And the government offers

those exhibits.

MS. SHROFF: We're not going to massively agree to the

admission of these exhibits. Your Honor, I don't have an

authentication issue, but to the extent that we have hearsay

and other objections, we maintain them.

THE COURT: All righty. They are admitted.

(Government's Exhibits BUCK 34, BUCK 44, BUCK 48, BUCK

49, BUCK 50, BUCK 60, BUCK 63, BUCK 69, BUCK 77, BUCK 80

received in evidence)

(Government's Exhibits BUCK 115, BUCK 117, BUCK 127,

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BUCK 131, BUCK 133, BUCK 138, BUCK 141, BUCK 168, BUCK 174,

BUCK 194 received in evidence)

(Government's Exhibits BUCK 218, BUCK 221, BUCK 227,

BUCK 232, BUCK 235, BUCK 236, BUCK 241, BUCK 243 received in

evidence)

(Government's Exhibits BUCK 375, BUCK 391, BUCK 428,

BUCK 522, BUCK 524, BUCK 532 received in evidence)

(Government's Exhibits BUCK 709, BUCK 822, BUCK 851,

BUCK 1204, BUCK 1260, BUCK 1261, and BUCK 1274-BUCK 1291, and

BUCK 1293-BUCK 1296 received in evidence)

MR. FERGENSON: And Ms. Loftus, if we could also show

the witness what's marked as GX BUCK 1292. Just the witness.

And if you could scroll up briefly just so she can see

it.

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. What kind of document is this, Ms. Buck?

A. This is an Excel spreadsheet of the payments made.

Q. And did you create this Excel spreadsheet?

A. I did.

Q. Was that part of your work on behalf of Buck Esq LLC for

the Taurus Fund?

A. Yes.

Q. And is this another business record for Buck Esq LLC?

A. Yes.

MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government

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Exhibit 1292.

MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may I just have a brief voir

dire.

THE COURT: Yes.

VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

BY MS. SHROFF:

Q. Ms. Buck, when was this document created?

A. I don't remember the exact date, but from the beginning, I

started this Excel spreadsheet, when I started making payments.

Q. And you maintained the Excel sheet throughout the course of

your representation?

A. Yes.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. I have no objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Government's Exhibit BUCK 1292 received in evidence)

THE COURT: Would you please repeat the number of the

exhibit.

MR. FERGENSON: Yes, your Honor. This is 1292. It's

GX BUCK 1292.

THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead.

MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.

All right. We can take that down, Ms. Loftus.

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. All right. Now, Ms. Buck, after you accepted the referral

for Crocker Mansion, what, if anything, did you do to formalize

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the engagement?

A. I drafted an engagement letter.

MR. FERGENSON: And Ms. Loftus, if we could show

what's now in evidence as GX BUCK 1296.

Q. All right. And what's this document?

A. This is the engagement letter I drafted for this

transaction.

MR. FERGENSON: All right. And if we could scroll

down.

Q. All right. And who signed on behalf of Taurus Fund?

A. Aaron Mitchell.

Q. And what did he write in the signature line?

A. He wrote Attorney-in-Fact.

Q. And what's an Attorney-in-Fact?

A. It's similar to like a power of attorney. He has the

authorization to sign on behalf of an entity.

THE COURT: And what is an engagement letter?

THE WITNESS: An engagement letter is something that

attorneys use, or I use in my real estate business when I'm

representing either a buyer or a seller, to formalize the

engagement and to give the——the client information on the price

and if——if any variables come up in the representation.

THE COURT: What do you mean by engagement?

THE WITNESS: They hire me to represent them.

THE COURT: Go ahead.

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MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.

All right. And we can take that down, Ms. Loftus.

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. After accepting——or after the engagement letter, Ms. Buck,

what did you do next?

A. I called the title company.

Q. What was the name of the title company?

A. Insight Title agency.

Q. And what was their role in the purchase?

A. They provided the title commitment and policy and they were

the settlement agent, so they handled the funds for the

transaction.

Q. What's a settlement agent?

A. A settlement agent is typically a title company. In New

Jersey, that's how we do the transactions. They receive the

deposit, the buyer's funds, they receive funds from possibly a

lender if one's involved, and then they disburse the funds in

accordance with the closing statement.

Q. And after the title company and the engagement letter, what

did you do next?

A. I asked for a copy of the contract.

Q. What was the contract price?

A. 26 million.

Q. And what were the terms of payment for the 26 million?

A. It was a $2 million deposit. The balance was due at

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closing. There was no mortgage contingency.

Q. And when you say no mortgage contingency, what does that

mean to a layperson?

A. It's a cash deal. All the money is coming from the buyer.

Q. And who was the buyer listed on the contract?

MS. SHROFF: Objection. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

A. Taurus Fund SP.

Q. What is SP?

A. I'm not really sure.

Q. To your knowledge could an SP hold title to this property?

A. No. I spoke to the title company about it, and it's not a

recognized entity for title purposes in New Jersey.

Q. What, if anything, did Aaron Mitchell tell you about Taurus

Fund SP?

A. He said they were going to form an LLC at closing.

Q. And what entity ultimately held title to the property?

A. Taurus Fund, LLC.

Q. And how was Taurus Fund, LLC structured?

MS. SHROFF: Objection.

THE COURT: Well, if you know.

THE WITNESS: I do.

THE COURT: Go ahead.

A. It was formed in the state of Nevada, and it was a hundred

percent member——excuse me——the 100 percent member was Taurus

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Fund——I'll start over.

It was formed in Nevada. The sole member was Taurus

Management, LLC.

MR. FERGENSON: All right. Ms. Loftus, if we can show

the witness what's in evidence as GX BUCK 1234.

Q. All right. And what's this exhibit, Ms. Buck?

A. This is a filed articles of organization for Taurus Fund,

LLC.

Q. In what state?

A. Nevada.

Q. And just to focus you sort of towards the top middle, when

was it incorporated?

A. December 16, 2021.

Q. And how close was that to the closing date for the Crocker

Mansion?

A. I believe we closed the next day, on December 17th.

MR. FERGENSON: And if we could scroll down to page 3,

Ms. Loftus.

And if we could zoom on the bottom half, just to make

it larger.

Q. Who were the managers of Taurus Fund, LLC?

A. The managers were Taurus Management, LLC and Scott Barnett.

Q. And——

MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I'm assuming the government

is asking what the document notes as the manager, correct?

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THE COURT: That is your question?

MR. FERGENSON: Yes, your Honor.

THE COURT: As to what the document says?

MR. FERGENSON: Yes.

THE COURT: Go ahead.

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. And what's the address listed for those managers?

A. 6628 Sky Pointe Drive, Suite 129-1071, Las Vegas, Nevada

89131.

Q. Same address for both?

A. Correct.

Q. All right. Now, Ms. Buck, who was Scott Barnett?

A. He's the manager of——listed on this document for Taurus

Fund, LLC. He was also a point of contact that I was

authorized to receive invoices from and pay them accordingly.

Q. What did you understand his connection to be, if any, to

the family?

A. I——I don't know. He was their——he set up their security

systems, and he was handling a lot of the invoices and sending

them to me and making sure they were paid. I don't know if he

was a friend or an employee. I assumed he was an independent

contractor.

Q. You mentioned security. Were there significant security

expenses that you helped pay?

A. Yes.

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MR. FERGENSON: All right. Ms. Loftus, if we could go

to GX BUCK 1233.

Q. All right. What's this document, Ms. Buck?

A. This is the filed articles of organization for Taurus

Management, LLC.

Q. And that's one of the managers of Taurus Fund, LLC?

A. Correct.

MS. SHROFF: Objection to the leading.

THE COURT: So we can do this the long way or we can

do it more efficiently. The objection is overruled.

Q. All right. And if we could just——oh, Ms. Buck, quickly,

where was Taurus Management, LLC incorporated?

A. New Mexico.

MS. SHROFF: The objection is asked and answered now.

MR. FERGENSON: I did not ask that.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

MR. FERGENSON: And if we could scroll to page 2.

Q. All right. And when was Taurus Management, LLC

incorporated?

A. December 15, 2021.

Q. And how close was that to the incorporation of Taurus Fund,

LLC?

A. It was the day before.

MR. FERGENSON: We can take it down, Ms. Loftus.

Q. Ms. Buck, what, if anything, did Aaron Mitchell tell you

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about the reasons for this structure?

A. He said the client was very concerned about privacy and

security and they took great length to protect their privacy

and stay secure.

Q. And what was your reaction to that?

A. Given the price point of the property, I assumed it was a

celebrity or high-net-worth individual, so I wasn't surprised

by the level of security.

Q. Now, Ms. Buck, approximately when was the closing date?

A. On or around December 17, 2021.

Q. And you said it was a cash deal, correct?

MS. SHROFF: Objection. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Move on.

Q. Who or what entity sent the cash to buy the property?

A. At the time I don't know because I wasn't the settlement

agent. It was sent to the title company.

Q. And did you later learn?

A. I later learned it was from Hamilton.

Q. To your understanding what was Hamilton?

A. My understanding, it was like a parent company to Taurus

Fund, since it was a newly formed entity.

Q. And where did that understanding of yours come from?

A. From conversations with Aaron Mitchell.

Q. Now, Ms. Buck, after the closing, what work did you do?

A. After the closing, I paid invoices on behalf of Taurus Fund

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for various vendors and contractors.

Q. And who was your primary contact for that work?

A. Initially, it was Aaron Mitchell.

Q. And what, if anything, did Mitchell say about why you were

asked to do that work?

A. Because Taurus Fund was a newly formed entity, they haven't

yet opened their bank accounts, and they had renovations and

work being done right after closing, so it was a short-term

assignment.

Q. And could you just describe for the jury, you know, what

your work entailed.

A. I would receive nondisclosure agreements and invoices to

review; I would be told if they were installment contracts,

what to pay on them, who to pay; I would verify the wire

instructions, and I would send out wires from my trust account.

Q. And around when did you start this work?

A. Immediately after closing.

Q. And until when, approximately, did you continue making

these payments?

A. Until February of 2023.

Q. Generally speaking, Ms. Buck, how frequently were you

making payments?

A. Frequently. Sometimes multiple times a day, sometimes

daily. It was sometimes every few days. It was pretty

constant.

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Q. What sorts of things were you paying for?

A. Construction and renovation, furnishings, artwork,

furniture.

Q. Overall, what was the approximate total amount you handled

for payment?

A. Approximately 18 million.

Q. And the money that you paid to vendors, where was that

money coming to your trust account from?

A. It was coming from Hamilton.

Q. Do you know where Hamilton got that money from?

A. I do not.

Q. Did you think you were doing anything wrong when making

these payments?

A. No.

Q. Now, Ms. Buck, we looked at the engagement letter earlier.

Did you have an engagement letter for this payment work?

A. It was a less formal engagement letter. It was through an

email, but yes, it was documented.

MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could publish

GX BUCK 1295.

And if we could go to page 2. And scroll down

slightly. That's good.

Q. Is this the email, Ms. Buck?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. All right. And who did you send this email to?

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A. Aaron Mitchell.

Q. All right. And I'll ask you to please read the first

paragraph.

A. "As you know, the purchase of the above-referenced

transaction has closed. You, as authorized person for the

Taurus Fund, LLC, have requested my continued representation in

connection with the purchase, delivery and coordination of

various furnishings and interaction with various

companies/vendors in connection therewith. As Taurus Fund, LLC

is a new entity and in process of opening bank accounts, I will

utilize my trust account to receive funds from or on behalf of

Taurus Fund, LLC to pay various vendors. I will also negotiate

Non Disclosure Agreements with the vendors to ensure protection

of the Buyer and its information. The expectation is that

there is approximately five vendors that I will be coordinating

with and Scott Barnett is the authorized person/manager of

Taurus Fund, LLC who will give me directions and written

authorization to make payments."

Q. Now just to pause there, Ms. Buck, when you said towards

the middle there that Taurus Fund, LLC is in the process of

opening bank accounts, where did you get that information from?

A. That information was from Aaron Mitchell and Scott Barnett.

Q. And you referenced nondisclosure agreements. How common

are those in your practice?

A. In a typical real estate transaction, residential, not as

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standard; in commercial, they're a little more standard.

Usually bigger transactions.

Q. Did you think there was anything wrong with using

nondisclosure agreements?

A. No.

Q. All right. And I won't make you read it, Ms. Buck, but

what was your fee for this work initially?

A. $15,000.

MR. FERGENSON: And if we could scroll up, please.

I'm sorry. Scroll back down.

Q. What did Aaron Mitchell say in response?

A. "Confirmed on behalf of Taurus."

MR. FERGENSON: And if we could scroll back up. And

keep scrolling up. Great.

Q. All right. Now what's the date of this top email,

Ms. Buck?

A. February 21, 2022.

Q. And about how long after the initial email is this email?

A. Approximately two months.

Q. And who did you send this email to?

A. Aaron Mitchell.

Q. All right. And Ms. Buck, I'll ask you to please read the

first three paragraphs.

A. "I hope you are well. As previously discussed, my

representation has surpassed our initial agreement and you

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wanted me to present my fees for previous work performed and

ongoing monthly fee if the same arrangement is to continue.

"As you may recall, my representation was to cover

payments to approximately 5 vendors, handling approximately

$2 million in client funds and conclude in about a month. I

had one point of contact at the time, Scott (not including

you). My fee was a flat fee of $15,000. Such arrangement was

confirmed on December 21, 2021.

"To date, over $10 million of client funds have been

wired to my account. Over 55 payments have been made to

approximately 23 vendors. I have three points of contact,

Scott, Sean, and Gladys (again not including you). As you

know, wire instructions are verified verbally, NDAs, COIs and

invoices are reviewed by me. I also discuss priorities of

payments with the points of contact, review monies remaining

and any other questions they may have."

Q. Now, Ms. Buck, the increase you reference, $10 million and

from 5 vendors to 23, was that discussed with you beforehand or

did they just happen?

A. They happened.

Q. What was your reaction to that?

A. I wasn't happy. That wasn't what our——that wasn't what the

arrangement was, but I was trying to help a client continue on

with their renovations so I didn't want to get in the way.

Q. And again, Ms. Buck, just briefly, what was your ongoing

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fee for this work going forward?

A. $15,000.

Q. And how often would you get $15,000?

A. Monthly. It was earned.

Q. All right. Now in what you read, you listed three points

of contact. You referenced Scott. Which Scott is that?

A. Scott——excuse me——Scott Barnett.

Q. The one we discussed earlier?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. And Sean, who was Sean?

A. Sean Jing was also a point of contact that I was authorized

to receive invoices from and pay them accordingly.

Q. Did you ever meet him in person?

A. No.

Q. Did you talk to him on the phone?

A. Quite frequently.

Q. And what kinds of things did you talk about?

A. He would send me invoices, he'd check on payments, he would

prioritize payments.

Q. Do you know what company, if any, he worked for formally?

A. I don't know formally.

Q. Do you know what his title was?

MS. SHROFF: Objection. Title to what?

THE COURT: You may answer.

A. He was I think the project manager or the house manager.

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He seemed to be one at the Crocker Mansion so he knew what was

getting done.

Q. Did you have an understanding of who he worked for?

MS. SHROFF: Objection.

A. He worked——

THE COURT: Overruled. If you know who he worked for,

you may say.

A. He worked for Taurus Fund. I'm just not sure in what

capacity.

Q. And you also mentioned another point of contact, Gladys.

Who was Gladys?

A. Gladys Chow was another authorized person who sent me

invoices.

Q. Did you ever meet her in person?

A. I did not.

Q. Did you talk to her on the phone?

A. I did.

Q. What kinds of things did you discuss?

A. She seemed to be in charge of the higher-end furnishings

and artwork, so she would prioritize what needed to be paid and

when.

Q. And do you know what her title was?

A. I think she——I think she was a project manager too.

MS. SHROFF: Objection to "think." Either she knows

or doesn't know.

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THE COURT: So if you'll just state what you know as

opposed to guessing.

THE WITNESS: Understood. On some emails I saw

her——her title as project manager.

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. And sort of formally, do you know what company she worked

for?

A. No.

Q. As a practical matter, who did you understand she worked

for?

A. She was an agent of Taurus Fund. I don't know if she had

her own company or——I don't know the extent.

MR. FERGENSON: All right. Now, Ms. Loftus, if we

could publish GX BUCK 822.

Q. And Ms. Buck, you mentioned earlier that there were

security-related expenses. What sorts of security-related

expenses do you recall?

A. There was a security system put in place; there was I'm

sure cameras type of things; anyone on the property that was

coming on the property signed what's called a non-disclosure

agreement. That was for their protection of the buyer. I

don't re——there was a lot of invoices. I'm sure——there was a

lot of security invoices as well.

Q. And in terms of dollar amount, were they significant?

A. I believe so.

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Q. All right. Now, Ms. Buck, let me direct your attention to

this.

MR. FERGENSON: And if we could zoom on the bottom

email, please, Ms. Loftus.

Q. All right. Now Ms. Buck, could you please read this email

you wrote.

A. "Hi Scott

"Please send me a copy of the signed NDA and $100,000

invoice from the above-referenced vendor. In addition, please

provide authorization to wire $100,000 to this vendor."

Q. All right. And what's the date of this email, Ms. Buck?

A. December 22, 2021.

Q. And how soon into your payment work was this email?

A. In the first week.

Q. And in the To line, in the header section, who is this

email to?

A. Frontsight1@outlook.com.

Q. And whose email is that?

A. Scott Barnett.

Q. And who is copied?

A. I'm sorry?

Q. Who's copied on the email?

A. Oh, I'm sorry. Aaron Mitchell.

Q. All right. Now your email body said "the above-referenced

vendor." What's the subject line of the email?

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A. Taurus-Payment to Labarbiera Custom Homes, LLC.

Q. And what was Labarbiera Custom Homes, LLC?

A. It's a construction company.

Q. Were you in contact with anyone there?

A. A person by the name of Vinnie Labarbiera.

Q. And who is Vinnie Labarbiera?

A. He was the owner.

Q. And what, if anything, did he do with respect to the

Crocker Mansion.

A. He did a lot of construction work. He also had a monthly I

believe maintenance contract with Taurus Fund.

MR. FERGENSON: All right. And if we could zoom out.

And then if we could just zoom on the top email.

Thank you, Ms. Loftus.

Q. What did Scott Barnett write in reply?

A. "Attached are the documents you requested and I am

authorizing the payment to the vendor."

Q. All right. And are there attachments to that email?

A. Yes, there are.

MR. FERGENSON: All right. Ms. Loftus, if we could

scroll down. We can go to page 7.

Q. All right. Now, Ms. Buck, at the top here, can you read

the very top line at the top center.

A. LABARBIERA CUSTOM HOMES LLC.

Q. And then directing you a little bit downward, what's the

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date of this document?

A. December 18, 2021.

Q. And then could you please read the Re line beneath that.

A. "Taurus Fund SP.

"675 Ramapo Valley Road, Mahwah.

"Construction Agreement."

Q. And could you read the sentence beneath that.

A. "Labarbiera Custom Homes, LLC to provide the following at

the above-referenced premises."

MR. FERGENSON: And Ms. Loftus, if we could like

scroll slightly to see both pages.

Q. All right. And Ms. Buck, I want to focus you underneath

where it says Demolition Work to Be Provided in the Following

Areas: Can you read the text beneath that.

A. "2nd level ladies master wing.

"3rd level sons wing.

"3rd level daughters wing.

"2nd level bedroom bath converted to laundry."

Q. Ms. Buck, what's a wing?

A. It's a section of the house. It may be how the house was

built. It has different wings that they branch into.

Q. Where it says "master wing," what do you understand the

master wing to be?

A. Master is typically the primary heads of the households,

spouses, husband and wife.

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Q. And son wing, what do you understand that to refer to?

A. Usually one of the children gets a wing.

MR. FERGENSON: All right. Let's scroll down

slightly, Ms. Loftus, please.

Q. All right. And then focusing you on the bold text

Daughter's Wing Level 3, can you just read the first line of

text beneath that.

A. "Denoted walls to be removed."

MR. FERGENSON: And we can zoom out, Ms. Loftus. And

if we could scroll down again.

Q. And focusing on Lady's Wing Level 2, can you read the first

three lines of text.

A. "Denoted openings to be closed.

"Denoted openings formed as per plan.

"Marked walls to be removed."

Q. And what do you understand Lady's Wing to mean?

A. The wife of the husband and wife duo, the primaries.

(Continued on next page)

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BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. And where it says denoted openings formed as per plan. Do

you recall reviewing a plan for that?

A. I did not see the architectural plans.

Q. And if we could just focusing you on son's wing level

three. Could you read the first line of text beneath that?

A. Existing theater platforms dividing wall and carpeting to

be removed.

Q. And let's go to page 10.

Focusing you on the bottom, Ms. Buck, what was the

total contract price for this work?

A. $488,300.

Q. Is this contract signed?

A. This is not.

MS. SHROFF: Objection. It's not a contract.

Q. Is this document signed?

THE COURT: Go ahead.

A. It is not.

Q. Let's go to GXBuck-168. Did you later receive a signed

copy, Ms. Buck?

A. I did.

Q. And you can just scroll to page five, Ms. Loftus.

Ms. Buck, is this copy signed?

A. It is.

Q. Do you know who signed on behalf of Taurus Fund, LLC?

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A. I believe that's Scott Barnett's.

MS. SHROFF: Objection to believe. Either she knows

or she doesn't know.

THE COURT: Just testify as to what you know.

A. Scott Barnett sent the signed contract to me.

Q. And, Ms. Loftus, we can go to GXBuck-851. Let's actually

start with page three if we could zoom in on the bottom email,

Ms. Loftus.

Ms. Buck, what's the date of this email?

A. January 6, 2022.

Q. And about how long had you been doing the payment work at

this point?

A. Less than a month.

Q. Who is this email from?

A. Gladys Chow.

Q. And what is her email address?

A. GladysC.@HCHKtech.com.

Q. Do you know what HCHK Tech is?

A. I do not.

Q. Could you please read the first two lines of the email?

A. Attached are the documents for the rugs purchase. There

are two separate invoices, 300K attachment one, plus 200K --

excuse me, 250K attachment two and the COI and NDA are attached

as well.

Q. By the way, Ms. Buck, what is a COI?

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A. Certificate of insurance.

Q. What's a certificate of insurance?

A. They show that, in this instance, that the vendor has

insurance cause they're carrying high-end furnishing so we want

to see they're insured in case something happens.

Q. And we can zoom out, Ms. Loftus. We can scroll up to page

two. If we can zoom on that email, yes, please.

Ms. Buck, could you please read your response?

A. Hi, Gladys. I need fine rugs to sign off that we can

directly pay the owner. They can write on their invoice or

send email directing me to pay Nahid Botesazan. I also need

wire instructions for Nahid. Scott, please authorize both

payments for rugs.

Q. Why did you ask Scott to authorize payments?

A. In the beginning with Taurus, Aaron and Scott were only the

authorized representatives at this point. Gladys wasn't

authorized, so I needed someone to tell me to pay them.

Q. Can we zoom in on the response. What did Gladys say in

response?

A. Attached is the email directing you to pay Nahid for the

two Chinese rugs and the wire info of Nahid is attached too.

Thank you.

MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I think it says, Hi Amy,

comma, and then goes to the body of the email.

THE COURT: Did you say you wanted to pause?

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MR. FERGENSON: No, I didn't want to interrupt you.

THE COURT: If you would just state what it says.

THE WITNESS: You want me to reread it?

THE COURT: Yes.

A. Hi Amy, attached is the email directing you to pay the

Nahid for the two Chinese rugs, and the wire info of Nahid is

attached too. Thank you. Regards.

Q. If we can zoom out and scroll up. If we could zoom on

Ms. Buck's email.

Ms. Buck, in your response there's a image there.

What is that image?

A. That image is from my excel spreadsheet.

Q. What was that excel spreadsheet tracking?

A. The payments made on behalf of Taurus Fund.

Q. If we could zoom out and scroll up. Then what does Gladys

say in response?

A. Please hold on with DND. The client wants to double

confirm the items. Regards.

Q. Who did you understand the client to refer to?

A. The family.

Q. If we could zoom out. Let's actually go to GX Buck-532.

And if we could scroll down slightly.

Ms. Buck, could you please read Gladys' initial email

here?

A. Hi Amy, attached please find document for furniture

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purchase from DND gallery. Thank you, regards.

Q. And let's go up. What did you write back in response?

A. Hi Scott, please authorize payment if acceptable.

Q. And if we could go to the next email.

What did Gladys say in response?

A. Hi Amy, here is the final invoice and the certificate of

authenticity for a total of 41 items. The principal has

approved and authorized the payment. Please process the

payment today. Thank you so much, Gladys.

Q. When she said the principal has approved and authorized the

payment, who did you understand the principal to be?

A. Someone in the family.

Q. If we could zoom out, Ms. Loftus, if we could scroll down.

And there's attachments to this email, right,

Ms. Buck?

A. Yes.

Q. And could you read the description here, Ms. Buck?

A. A very rare and unusual antique French Louie -- I don't

remember my Roman numerals, XVI Gilt bronze mounted boule and

silvered bronze rectangular form desk/center table of

exceptional craftsmanship embellished with fine detail and

adorned with gilt bronze figural mask 19th Century.

Q. That's fine. Thank you. If we could just keep scrolling

through. Thank you, Ms. Loftus. We can stop there.

Ms. Loftus, if we can go to GX Buck-709.

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Ms. Buck, focusing you on the top here, can you read

the text in the top right corner?

A. Flat rate elite.

Q. And what does it say in large text to the left of that?

A. Your move plan.

Q. And focusing you sort of above that in smaller text, what's

the name listed?

A. Taurus Fund, LLC.

Q. And what's the date on this document?

A. January 18, 2022.

Q. And about how soon after the closing is that?

A. It's about a month.

Q. And beneath the header, could you read the large text there

what it says?

A. I'm sorry. I don't know where you're referring.

Q. Do you see, Your upcoming elite move there.

A. Yes.

Q. Focusing you beneath that where it says where, do you see

that?

A. I do.

Q. Could you please read the origin address?

A. 373 Taconic Road, Greenwich, Connecticut 06831, flights

2.5.

Q. Do you know that address in Greenwich, Connecticut?

A. I do not.

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Q. Did anyone tell you what it was?

A. No.

Q. Did anyone tell you who lived there?

A. No.

Q. Could you please read the destination address?

A. 675 Ramapo Valley Road, Mahwah, New Jersey 07431, flights

2.0.

Q. And what's at that address?

A. That's the Crocker mansion address.

Q. And when was this move scheduled for, focusing you beneath

that?

A. Packing date Thursday, January 20, 2022.

Q. And when were the move-in dates?

A. Friday, January 21, 2022, and Friday January 28, 2022.

Q. And, Ms. Loftus, if we could zoom out slightly.

Beneath what we just looked at, Ms. Buck, what was the

price for this move?

A. $118,000.

Q. If we could scroll to page two and if we can blow up the

first few lines and make it larger.

Ms. Buck, in the top left it says furniture, could you

read on the left the first two lines there?

A. One extra large cabinet in living room, 20 x 25 x 2 master

bedroom.

Q. And what's the line beneath that?

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A. One gold orb 15 x 1 x 1 master bedroom, one cabinet storage

extra large dining room.

Q. Ms. Loftus, we can zoom out. We could go to page seven, if

we could zoom on the signature.

Now, Ms. Buck, you see it says E-sign at the top?

A. Yes.

Q. What name is listed in large text there?

A. Scott Barnett.

Q. What does it say in the sign by row?

A. Signed by Scott Barnett.

Q. What's the email address signed by email?

A. GladysC@HCHKtech.com.

Q. And to your understanding who used that email?

A. Gladys Chow.

Q. Did Scott Barnett use that email?

MS. SHROFF: Objection.

THE COURT: You may answer.

A. He didn't use that email with me.

Q. Let's go to GXBuck-1204, if we can zoom in on the text.

Ms. Buck, is this one of the invoices you received for

your payment work?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you pay this invoice?

A. I did.

Q. What does it say in the top left?

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A. Meritt Plumbing.

Q. And what's the date of this invoice focusing you on the top

right?

A. January 24, 2022.

Q. What was the job location for this invoice?

A. 373 Taconic Road Greenwich, Connecticut.

Q. How does that address compare with the origin address that

we just looked at?

A. It's the same.

Q. So beneath the address, what does it say after bill to?

A. Sean.

Q. Who did you understand Sean to refer to?

A. Sean Jing.

Q. Scrolling down or looking at the bottom, what was the total

amount due on this invoice?

A. $400.

Q. Let's go to Government Exhibit Buck-375. Who's this email

from?

A. Gladys Chow.

Q. What's the date on this email?

A. January 27, 2022.

Q. And just as a reference, about how long after the closing

was this?

A. A little over a month.

Q. And who's this email to?

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A. It's to me and Scott Barnett.

Q. What is Scott Barnett's email?

A. ScottB@GSNYUS.com.

Q. Do you know what GSNYUS is?

A. I do not.

Q. What's the subject line of this email?

A. Hastens mattress purchase.

Q. What's Hastens if you know?

A. A mattress company.

Q. Could you please read Gladys' email, the body?

A. Hi, Amy, please find attached the client has approved

already. Thanks.

Q. Who did you understand the client to refer to?

A. The family.

Q. Are there attachments to this email?

A. There are.

Q. If we could scroll down to page three, Ms. Loftus. Who is

this sales order book from?

A. This is from Hastens.

Q. And, Ms. Loftus, maybe we can blow up the top portion to

make it easier to read. What's listed under bill to?

A. Taurus Fund, LLC.

Q. And is that the Las Vegas address?

A. Yes.

Q. And what's listed under ship to?

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A. 675 Ramapo Valley Road, Mahwah.

Q. Is that the Crocker mansion address?

A. It is.

Q. If we could scroll down, Ms. Loftus, if we can blow up the

remainder of it starting with that chart.

Ms. Buck, focusing you first on rows one and two, what

are those items?

A. Mattress and top mattress.

Q. What color is listed for both of those items?

MS. SHROFF: Objection as to relevance, what color is

the mattress.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

A. Blue.

Q. And how much is the mattress?

A. $36,590.

Q. How much is the top mattress?

A. $5,590.

Q. Focusing you on rows three and four, what are those items?

A. Mattress and top mattress.

Q. What color are those items?

A. White.

Q. And what's the price of the mattress?

A. $36,210.

Q. And the top mattress?

A. $5,840.

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Q. And then focusing you on row five, what's that item?

A. Accessories.

Q. And in the bold, what does it say there?

A. Mattress cover.

Q. And how many -- what's the quantity? How many pieces were

there?

A. Two.

Q. And just focusing on the total cost, how much was this in

total?

A. The invoice or the cover?

Q. The bold total after the discount?

A. $80,829.21.

Q. Let's go to GXBuck-522. If we could go to page three,

scroll up slightly, and we can zoom in on the bottom one.

Ms. Buck, is this the initial email we were just

looking at?

A. Yes.

Q. We could scroll up now. What did you write back?

A. Hi, Scott, please approve the purchase. Gladys advises

that the delivery will be made to her New York office address

so NDA is not necessary. Thanks.

Q. If we could scroll up.

Ms. Buck, what was your understanding of why an NDA

would not be needed if it was going to the New York office?

A. If the vendor is not going to be on site at the Crocker

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mansion, there's no need for NDA.

Q. You wrote back again, can you read your next email?

A. Apologies. It looks like you have a signed NDA and COI.

Good on my end. Gladys, I assume there is another request that

is being delivered to your office. Thanks.

Q. Can you read Gladys' response like the first line?

A. Correct. Mattress are still going to NJ.

Q. The bottom line of her response?

A. Only the piano is going to New York office first. Will

send that invoice over as soon as I received it. Thanks.

Q. Do you recall the address for the New York office,

Ms. Buck?

A. I do not.

Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could show GX Buck-69 or publish, please.

While we're waiting, Ms. Buck, did you receive an

invoice for a piano?

A. I did.

Q. If we could zoom in on the top half. In the top center,

who's this bill of sale from?

A. Faust Harrison Pianos.

Q. And on the top right, what's the date?

A. January 27, 2022.

Q. The sold to, can you read the top line there?

A. Taurus Fund, LLC.

Q. And can you read the full ship to?

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A. Gladys Chow, 3 Columbus Circle 20th floor, New York, New

York 10019.

Q. And do you know what was at that address, Ms. Buck?

A. I do not.

Q. And could you read the first line of the description,

please?

A. Bosendorfer 185VC Porsche # 49539 with custom bench.

Q. Focusing you on the bottom right, what was the total due?

A. $140,938.69.

Q. Ms. Loftus, let's go now to GXBuck-428.

What's the date of this email, Ms. Buck?

A. February 17, 2022.

Q. And focusing you on the from line, what's the email address

in the from line?

A. 675payable@proton mail.com.

Q. What's that email address?

A. It's an email address I received emails from Gladys Chow

and Sean Jing.

Q. Focusing on the bottom email, who signed this email?

A. Gladys.

Q. What did she list beneath that?

A. Project manager.

Q. Can you read just the first line underneath purchase, could

you just read one and two, please?

A. Hastens mattress $36,596.90, Cedric DuPont shipping

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$38,651.80.

Q. Focusing you on the header where it says attachments, could

you please read the name of the first attachments, Ms. Buck?

A. Hastens invoice daughter 2.17.22. pdf.

Q. Who did you understand daughter to refer to?

A. The daughter, the family.

Q. If we can go to page two, please.

Ms. Buck, just quickly here focusing you on rows one

and two, what's the color indicated there?

A. It's abbreviated, seem to be silver blue.

Q. And we can zoom out. What's the total cost?

A. $36,596.90.

Q. If we can go to page six now, Ms. Loftus. We can zoom on

the top half just make it larger.

Now, the shipper origin, do you see that, Ms. Buck?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you read the second line?

A. Cedric DuPont Antiques.

Q. Let's actually pull up GXBuck-77. Actually, Ms. Loftus, if

we could do GXBuck-77 and GXBuck-80.

Now, Ms. Buck, in both of these, what is the large

text in the center?

A. Cedric DuPont Antiques.

Q. Focus on the document on the right, can you read the

description there?

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A. A stunning and large scale Italian 19th Century wrought

iron lantern.

Q. Let's go to GXBuck-194, please. And we can zoom in on

that.

Now, Ms. Buck, focusing you on the top left there when

it says date, what's the date?

A. February 2, 2022.

Q. And then moving over to the top right, what's the customer

name?

A. Sean Jing.

Q. Back on the left under bill to, what are the first two

lines?

A. Taurus Funds LLC, Sean Jing.

Q. In the email address listed at the bottom there, what's

that email address?

A. NewJ6909@protonmail.com.

Q. Whose email address is that?

A. Sean Jing.

Q. The ship to, can you read the first line there?

A. Sean Jing.

Q. Is the Crocker mansion's address beneath that?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. Now, if we could just -- actually, I think you can see it.

Can you read the description under order items?

A. Samsung Q900 series, QN98Q900RBF, 98 inches, QLED Smart

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TV-8K new.

Q. To the right of that, what's the unit price?

A. $59,969.

Q. And what's the unit price for the freight?

A. $2,818.54.

Q. Let's go to GX Buck-218, please.

Ms. Buck, is this an invoice you received as part of

your work?

A. Yes.

Q. What's the name of the company on the top left?

A. Luca, Inc.

Q. And beneath that on the right, what's the date?

A. February 20, 2022.

Q. And could you read the second line from the top under

description?

A. Painting and fixing boss door.

Q. Could you read the second one from the bottom?

A. Supplying and installing two towel racks for boss bathroom.

Q. Who did you understand boss to be?

A. The head of the family.

Q. Did you ever meet anyone name boss?

A. No.

Q. Let's go to page two. Just quickly, can you read the

second line from the top?

A. Installation two closet rods in madam's laundry room.

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Q. Let's go to GXBuck-391, please.

Ms. Buck, focusing you on the top, whose this email

from?

A. Gladys Chow.

Q. What's the date?

A. March 29, 2022.

Q. And if we could zoom out. Just focusing on the bottom

email to focus you at the bottom there, Ms. Buck, can you read

what it says after to?

A. Golden Spring New York LTD.

Q. Do you know what Golden Spring New York LTD is?

A. I do not.

Q. You can go to GX Buck-1275, please.

Who sent this email to you, Ms. Buck?

A. Gladys.

Q. What's the date of this email?

A. May 23, 2022.

Q. And I'll ask you just to read the first line of the second

paragraph?

A. Attached please find the invoice wire instruction and COI

for Amuneal bookcase.

Q. In the same paragraph can you read the last line of that

paragraph?

A. The client has approved it already.

Q. Who did you understand the client to be?

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A. The family.

Q. If we could, Ms. Buck, could you read one more sentence,

the next sentence there, There is no?

A. There is no certificate of authenticity since it is not an

antique item and is a custom-made piece for the client.

Q. If we could scroll down to page three for the client.

Under description, Ms. Buck, can you read just that first row

right there?

A. Brass bookcase.

Q. If we can zoom on the top left, please, page two. It

should be the same exhibit 1275, the top left.

What does it say after attention?

A. Leanne Leonal @ G Fashion.com.

Q. Do you know what G Fashion is?

A. I do not.

Q. Do you know who Leanne is?

A. I do not.

Q. Can you read what it says after reference?

A. Brass bookcase to match brass pantry.

Q. And focusing on the bottom line, where was this being sent?

A. 675 Ramapo Valley Road, Mahwah, New York.

Q. Is that the Crocker mansion?

A. Yes.

Q. Let's go to GX Buck-1279, if we could scroll down, and we

can zoom on the bottom email.

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Ms. Buck, who is Ilona Musial?

A. She was another authorized person that sent me invoices to

pay.

Q. What is the date of this email that she sent you?

A. June 2, 2022.

Q. Can you read her message, please.

A. Hello Amy. It's Ilona Musial for the house manager for

Crocker mansion. I am sending you some bills to pay. If this

is not a problem, from now on I will be sending all invoices or

bills directly to you skipping Scott. Thank you, Ilona Musial.

Q. If we can zoom out and keep going up. Let's just go back

up to page one. If we could zoom on the bottom email.

Ms. Buck, just for context in this part of the email

chain, who are you emailing with?

A. Aaron Mitchell.

Q. Can you read your email to Aaron Mitchell?

A. Okay. She said she's taking the place of Scott, so I

wasn't sure. She sent me two bills for Rockland Electric that

are already paid. I can just let her know they are paid and

paid the other ones. She knows we need sign NDA, COI, etc, for

each contract/vendor.

Q. If we could zoom out of that email and scroll to the top

email. Can you just read Aaron Mitchell's first line response?

A. I haven't spoken to her. Just found out they hired a house

manager.

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Q. When he said her, who did you understand her to be?

A. Ilona Musial.

Q. When he said found out they just hired a house manager, who

did you understand the "they" to refer to?

A. The family.

Q. Let's go to GX Buck-1274. If we can just zoom on the

bottom email, please. Who's this email from?

A. Ilona Musial.

Q. If you can read the first two lines of her email to you?

A. Hello, Amy. Thank you for getting back to me. I spoke

with Scott and Yvette, and from now on I would be sending

payments to you to process them.

Q. Do you know who Yvette is?

A. I do not.

Q. Did you ever meet her?

A. No.

Q. Did you ever speak with her directly?

A. Not that I recall.

Q. Do you know what company or companies she worked for?

MS. SHROFF: I think she testified she doesn't know

who Yvette is.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Let's go to GX Buck-1277. If we can zoom on the top email,

please. Who's this email from?

A. Ilona Musial.

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Q. Who is it to?

A. Me, Amy Buck.

Q. And who is copied?

A. Scott Barnett and Sean Jing.

Q. I'll ask you if you could just read the last sentence in

the long paragraph there?

A. We would need to hear from you daily if the payments went

out because of the family requirement to pay all vendors on

time and specially for priority transfers.

Q. Who did you understand the family to refer to?

A. The family behind Taurus Fund.

Q. If we could go to GX Buck-1282.

Ms. Buck, who did you understand Wayne Cao to be?

A. I saw that name on invoices, so I assumed he was part of

the family.

MS. SHROFF: Objection to the assumption.

THE COURT: Don't say what you assume. Just say what

you know.

A. I saw the name Cao on various invoices.

Q. And if we could zoom on the bottom email. Who is this

email from?

A. Wayne Max Cao.

Q. Could you please read just the main question there?

A. Would you please give me a heads up when the balance of the

fund is getting close to 200K.

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Q. And what did you understand him to be referring to by

balance of the fund?

A. The balance of money in my trust account.

Q. How did you respond?

A. Absolutely not a problem.

Q. Did you ever meet Wayne Cao in person?

A. No.

Q. Did you ever have a phone call with him?

A. No.

Q. What sort of interaction did you have with him?

A. He would be copied on some emails or he sent emails that I

was copied on, so only through emails I saw his name.

Q. Let's go to GX Buck-1294.

Is this another invoice you received as part of your

work?

A. Yes.

Q. If we could zoom on the top left, please.

Now, can you read what's written in the bottom left?

A. Cao residence, 675 Ramapo Valley Road, Mahwah, New Jersey

07430.

Q. Did you see Cao residence on other invoices you received as

well?

A. I did.

Q. And then just focusing on the top right there, what does it

say after customer number?

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A. Cao.

Q. You can take that down, Ms. Loftus.

Ms. Buck, in the witness binder you reviewed, did you

select which documents went in that witness binder?

A. I did not.

Q. Did you receive, fair to say, many invoices?

A. Yes.

Q. And are all of them in that witness binder?

A. No.

Q. Now, Ms. Buck, did there come a time when you received a

subpoena in connection with your work?

A. Yes.

Q. Who was the subpoena from?

A. The SEC.

Q. And approximately when did you receive it?

A. In May of 2022.

Q. After receiving that subpoena, what did you do?

A. I freaked out.

Q. Why did you freak out?

A. I'm not a litigator. I don't go to court. Subpoenas are

very knew for me.

Q. After freaking out, what did you do next?

A. I immediately sent a copy to Aaron Mitchell and called him.

Q. And what did you discuss with Aaron Mitchell?

A. That I received a subpoena and next steps.

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Q. What did he say to you?

A. He was much calmer than me and said this is the cost of

doing business and they would hire counsel and we'd move

forward.

Q. When he said, This is the cost of doing business, what did

you understand that to mean?

A. That they either weren't surprised about the subpoena or

had other ones. I don't really know.

Q. What, if anything, did he tell you about the family in

connection with that call?

A. He said that the government doesn't like the client cause

they're part of the federalist party of China and the subpoena

didn't seem unexpected.

Q. Had you ever heard of the federalist party of China?

A. No.

Q. Do you follow Chinese politics?

A. No.

Q. Do you follow U.S China foreign relations?

A. I try not to.

Q. Do you know what the federalist party of China is?

A. No.

Q. When he said the government doesn't like them, do you have

any independent knowledge of whether that's true?

A. I do not.

Q. After that conversation, Ms. Buck, what did you do in

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response to the subpoena?

A. Counsel was hired and then I was communicating with counsel

to respond to the subpoena.

Q. And without getting into any discussions with your counsel,

did your counsel ultimately respond to the subpoena on your

behalf?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, Ms. Buck, did there come a time when the funds in your

trust account were running low and not being refilled?

A. Yes.

Q. Approximately when was that?

A. The first time was July of 2022.

Q. And what, if anything, did you do as a result?

A. Most of the contractors had my cell phone number. So when

they weren't getting paid, I received a lot of calls, so I was

reaching out to mostly Aaron to find out if the fund was going

to be replenished so I could pay the various contractors.

Q. What happened after that, after you reached out to Aaron?

A. I don't remember the days, sometime later in July I did

receive another wire.

Q. Approximately how much was that?

A. Five million.

Q. Did that five million eventually run out?

A. It did.

Q. And what happened after that?

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A. Around October, November of 2022, the funds were low again.

I was trying to find out if my representation was concluding so

I can turn over the records and whatever information was

necessary for the next person. I wasn't being told any

information. I was just getting the calls from the contractors

of who wasn't getting paid.

Eventually I did connect with Aaron, and he told me to

reach out to someone else to find out about the funds and if

they were going to be authorized to be paid through my trust

account.

Q. And where was that someone else located?

A. The UK.

Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could publish GX Buck-1283. If we can

zoom in on the text. Who is this invite from, Ms. Buck?

A. David Fallon.

Q. And what's the domain of his email address?

A. Hamilton-IM.

Q. And who is this invite to?

A. Priya Patel, William Je, myself and Aaron Mitchell.

Q. And what's the date of this invite?

A. December 1, 2022.

Q. And what's the subject?

A. Buck Esq. LLC Taurus call.

Q. And, Ms. Buck, did you have a call around this time?

A. We did.

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Q. Who was on the call?

A. I was on the call, Priya Patel. There were other

individuals there male, I just don't know if Mr. Fallon and

Mr. Je were on that call.

Q. Who did you understand David Fallon to be?

A. He was the person at Hamilton that authorized my payments

and my monthly fee.

Q. And who did you understand William Je to be?

A. I don't know. I know he was part of Hamilton.

Q. What did you discuss on this call?

A. We discussed a couple of things. One of them was my

counsel legal fee for responding to the subpoena. They wanted

me to run a title search on the property. It's called a

rundown, and it tells you if there's any liens that have been

placed on the property. And also if I was going to continue in

my role or if it was concluding and then transition to someone

else.

Q. Did they ask anything about the SEC subpoena?

A. They also ask in connection with the legal fee from my

counsel, they ask for a copy of the subpoena and our response.

Q. Now, around this time, Ms. Buck, what was your

understanding of whether some bills were still being paid?

A. I got the impression from how the contractors were calling

me that some payments were being paid from someone else and

some weren't just from how they were calling me and telling me

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what was paid and what wasn't, because I knew what I was paying

and not paying.

Q. Do you know where they were being paid from?

A. Sean Jing was making payments.

Q. Did you ever speak with him about that?

A. I did.

Q. Tell us about that conversation?

A. I asked him if they set up bank accounts to move forward

with payments, and he didn't really answer me. He just said he

was taking care of it.

Q. Ultimately were you able to pay the invoices that Taurus

had due?

A. At that time, no.

Q. Let's go to -- actually, Ms. Loftus, if we could publish GX

Buck-1290.

Ms. Buck, what is this exhibit?

A. This is a text message between me and Aaron Mitchell.

Q. And are your text in green or in gray?

A. Mine are in green.

Q. If we could scroll down. The January 26 message, what year

is that, January 26?

A. 2024.

Q. What did you write to Aaron Mitchell?

A. Did you get this.

Q. And what did you send him a screenshot of?

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A. A notice of a motion in connection with a bankruptcy

matter.

Q. If we could zoom on that again.

Ms. Buck, focusing you on the caption where it says In

Re. Can you read what it says after In Re?

A. Ho Wan Kwok, et al.

Q. Did you know who Ho Wan Kwok was?

A. I do not.

Q. Do you know who Luc Despins is?

A. I do not.

Q. Did you know about the bankruptcy before receiving this

document?

A. I did.

Q. If we could zoom out and scroll down.

What did Aaron Mitchell say? Actually, why don't I

read Aaron Mitchell's responses and you can read yours.

Yes, about 1,000 people got it.

A. That sounds amazing.

Q. Some people are fighting. So if they win, we win.

A. Gotcha. Do I need counsel for this too?

Q. Up to you, but I'm not getting counsel or responding.

A. Gotcha.

Q. Any further response to this with Aaron Mitchell?

A. No.

Q. After receiving -- without getting into any discussion with

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counsel, what did you do?

A. I responded to the subpoena.

Q. We can take that down, Ms. Loftus.

Ms. Buck, we discussed a number of people, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And we discussed a few entities in connection with your

work, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Did any of your contacts ever bring up the entity G/Club?

A. No.

MR. FERGENSON: May I have a moment, your Honor.

Q. Ms. Buck, what's a HUD-1 statement?

A. A HUD-1 is used for closings. It's where you see all the

numbers for disbursement in a real estate transaction.

MR. FERGENSON: Thank you. Nothing further.

THE COURT: Cross examination.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MS. SHROFF:

Q. Good morning, Ms. Buck.

A. Good morning.

Q. Ms. Buck, how long have you been a lawyer?

A. 23 years.

Q. And you said you were not a litigator, correct?

A. I am not.

Q. I understand. Your primary practice was in real estate,

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correct?

A. It is.

Q. And it has always been in real estate; is that right?

A. A majority of it.

Q. And is it fair to say that your practice was initially New

Jersey, then you moved to Florida and you moved back to New

Jersey? Do I have the chronology generally correct?

A. I'm only licensed in New Jersey and New York. Personally

we did Florida once or twice.

Q. And it didn't quite work out, right?

A. Yeah.

Q. You moved back to New Jersey?

A. I did.

Q. And unfortunately, I'm assuming you moved back to New

Jersey during Covid, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And when you moved back during Covid, at that time you did

not have a physical office space; is that right?

A. I have an office address that I use through a friend of

mine, but I maintain a home office.

Q. Can you help me with that last sentence again.

A. I maintain a home office. I don't use that address for

clients for safety, but I have an office address where mail

goes and I can go to, to use for a conference room if I need

to.

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Q. So you use a friend's office address to get your mail,

correct?

A. Correct.

Q. And then you work out of your home?

A. Correct.

Q. Which is, what, 90 percent of us did during Covid, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you also have some kind of virtual office or do you use

your friend's office space?

A. Just my friend's.

Q. And you testified that your practice is based in New

Jersey?

A. Yes.

Q. And you talked about, is there a county named Darlington in

New Jersey?

A. I don't think so.

Q. How about do you know -- is your practice county-based or

just statewide?

A. Statewide.

Q. And you testified on direct, right, that you got a referral

from someone name Dara Lawall, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. And did you know Dara from before?

A. I met her through mutual friends.

Q. And your connection was with her, was that many years

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before she sent you this referral?

A. No, it's when we moved to Chester, New Jersey.

Q. So you reconnected with her; is that right?

A. No, we both live in Chester, so we met like through mutual

friends.

Q. And when you met through mutual friends, she -- let me

withdraw that.

She's also a lawyer, right?

A. Correct.

Q. And she's the one who sent you the referral, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. And she sent you the referral in her capacity as an

attorney; is that right?

A. Yeah.

Q. Or did she just send it to you because you guys had become

friends?

A. As an attorney.

Q. And when she sent you that referral, she said she was

referring, you said, a family to you; is that right?

That's what you said on direct?

A. Yeah, she indicated they were important to her. They were

like family.

Q. And I'm assuming that you had a nice back and forth with

her when she did the introduction, correct?

A. I'm sure we spoke for a few minutes.

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Q. Did you ask her who's this family?

A. At the time I probably didn't cause I know I'll see it on

the contract.

Q. So you didn't ask her how she knew the family, correct?

A. I did not.

Q. You didn't ask her how long she knew the family, correct?

A. I did not.

Q. And you already told me that you didn't ask the name of the

family, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. And you became aware that it was -- the referral was about

a specific property, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And what name did you know that property by just so I can

refer to it the same way for you?

A. Crocker mansion.

Q. So you were aware that the property was Crocker mansion,

right?

A. Yes.

Q. And you were also aware that the Crocker mansion had been

on the market for at least a decade, correct?

A. I didn't know that actually.

Q. Did you know how long it had been on the market?

A. I didn't look.

Q. It's okay if you didn't look. My question was, if you were

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aware in any other way how long it had been on the market?

A. I was aware through one of my conversations with Aaron

Mitchell that it must have been a while because there was a

price reduction.

Q. There was a huge price reduction, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. The initial price was 39 million?

A. That's what I saw on Zillow.

Q. And then it had dropped all the way down to 26 million,

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And according to you there was a lot of back and forth on

the price of the sale of the property?

A. I wasn't involved at that point. It seemed like there was

negotiation between the parties.

Q. I know you weren't involved. By the time you got involved,

the sale was complete?

A. The price was set, yes.

Q. And you were aware though that there was some urgency on

the part of the seller to the sale, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. And you in fact told the government that you were aware of

this urgency, but that the urgency came from the seller, right?

A. Both parties seem to be very urgent.

Q. You didn't say that when you met with Mr. Fergenson,

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correct?

You told him that the urgency was coming from the

seller, right? Do you recall that?

A. I don't recall the difference between both parties and the

seller.

Q. Let me show you 3507-004 and see if that refreshes your

recollection.

A. Okay.

Q. It's just only for the witness, the Court and the parties,

please.

MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may I just have a minute.

Q. Does that refresh your recollection that it was the

seller's attorney that was contacting you a lot?

A. In regard to the deposit.

Q. Right. And it was never the buyer's attorney that was

contacting you with a rush, correct?

A. I was the buyer's attorney.

Q. I understand, but nobody from the buyer side contacted with

a rush, right?

A. In connection with the deposit, no.

Q. And the times that the sellers attorney was contacting you,

do you recall how many times she -- was it a "her" or a "him?"

A. It was a "he."

Q. And how often did he contact you?

A. I don't recall, several.

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Q. Several times, right?

A. I believe so, yes.

Q. You can take that down.

Now, Ms. Buck, it's fair to say that you have spoken

with the -- do you recall also -- let me go back for a minute.

Do you recall also telling the government that there

was a closing deadline before Christmas, and it was the seller

driving that urgency. Do you recall the timing of it being

before Christmas?

A. Yes.

Q. And you were also aware, were you not, given the work you

were doing that the property itself was old, correct?

A. I didn't know the age of the estate, but through the

invoices seem like it needed a lot of work.

Q. And you told that to Mr. Fergenson, correct, when you met

with him?

A. Yes.

Q. And you told him it was your impression that the property

was such that a lot of contractors would be needed to work on

it, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And that a lot of contractors would need to be paid,

correct?

A. Initially I was only paying a few. As it went on, I paid

many.

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Q. And the same is true for the vendors, right?

A. Correct.

Q. Initially there were a few, then you paid a lot?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, you were asked a lot of questions repeatedly about

what you understood the family to mean, correct?

A. Yes.

MR. FERGENSON: Objection.

THE COURT: Overruled.

Q. There is a time when you learned that the purchaser was

going to be an SP, right?

A. That's the name that was on the contract.

Q. Could you tell us, please, the full name of the contract as

you recall it?

A. Taurus Fund SP.

Q. And when you saw Taurus Fund SP, what did you think "SP"

stood for?

A. In my world immediately comes to mind sole proprietorship.

Q. When you saw that, did it ring a bell for you that New

Jersey had a different rule and it wouldn't be allowed?

A. Immediately, and I could confirm with the title company.

Q. Right, because that's what you do for a living, right.

Did you then tell Mr. Mitchell that that would not

work in New Jersey?

A. Yes.

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Q. Do you know if Mr. Mitchell was versed in these laws of

real estate?

A. I don't know his background.

Q. And that's because you're really fully familiar with the

wife, right?

A. I wasn't familiar with their work at all, because they've

referred other matters to me. I knew their practice was

primarily commercial litigation, and they did some residential

real estate, but I don't know how complex or not.

Q. Was it your perception that it was a husband and wife with

a separate practice for each, or that they both worked on the

same matters?

A. They made one firm. I don't know if they divvied up their

practice.

Q. You don't know one was a criminal lawyer and the other was

a real estate lawyer?

A. I do not.

Q. And do you recall when you spoke to Aaron Mitchell him

telling you and discussing with you the topic of the new

federal state of China?

A. I thought he told me it was federalist party of China, but

I don't remember the exact name.

Q. But putting aside the exactness of the name, you do recall

sitting here today Mr. Mitchell talking to you about that,

correct?

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A. Yes.

Q. And is it fair to say that it was not an area of your

interest so you didn't follow-up with them?

A. It was not.

Q. And it's still not an area of your interest, right?

A. No.

Q. There came a time when you started really just working with

Mr. Mitchell on this matter, correct?

A. Yes, after my initial conversation with Dara, we did not

discuss Taurus Fund.

Q. And when you were speaking with Mr. Mitchell, did he talk

to you about NDA?

A. He did from the beginning.

Q. And just, I'm allowed to lead, but that is a non-disclosure

agreement, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And is it fair to say that he gave you a written out

non-disclosure agreement for you to use?

A. Yes, he gave me a form.

Q. Like a template, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And did you use that template?

A. I reviewed it, but the signed NDAs were sent to me so I

didn't typically deal with them. I had copies of them from the

various vendors or contractors.

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Q. So if a vendor was going to do a dropoff at the property,

it would not be your responsibility to ensure that a NDA was

signed. You checked to see if it was signed?

A. I asked if they have one. Somebody else's responsibility

to gather the information.

Q. And when you first started working with this property, what

was the month and the year? I'm sorry. I've forgotten.

A. December of 2021.

Q. In December of 2021, at that point had Mr. Mitchell talk to

you about the need for security on the property?

A. When we initially spoke, since I didn't have -- every

company or entity has people, so you usually have the name.

When I ask for the name so I knew who natural person was behind

the client, I didn't get it. And he said they were very

concerned about security and privacy. So from the getgo, I

assumed, like I said, it was a celebrity or high net worth

individual, and it was very important that they feel safe, be

safe, and their information kept as nonpublic as possible.

Q. And when he, by "he" I mean Mr. Mitchell, talked to you

about the new federal state of China, you didn't ask him if

that had anything to do with the property, correct?

A. That came up when I received the first subpoena.

Q. No, I'm not asking about the subpoena.

A. I'm sorry. Can you ask it again.

Q. Sure. When Mr. Mitchell first mentioned the new federal

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state of China, you didn't ask if that property was going to be

used vis-a-vis the new federal state of China, right?

A. I did not.

Q. When you were talking about the security of the property,

you understood Mr. Mitchell to be talking about the physical

security of the property, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. And also the physical security of the property would

include the periphery of the property, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And the security within the property, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Ms. Buck, did you actually ever visit the property?

A. I did not.

Q. You didn't go see what it looked like, right?

A. I would have loved a tour, but I didn't. No one gave me

one.

Q. So when you were testifying about all of these invoices,

you did not know how the shipment was done at the physical

location, right?

You're just moving the paper along; is that fair?

A. Correct. I wasn't there to see the property.

Q. Now, I'm going to come back to Mr. Barnett, but Mr. Barnett

was also one of the people who also discussed physical safety?

A. Yes.

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Q. Is it your testimony that you did knot know Mr. Barnett

well or did you know him well?

A. I don't know him at all.

Q. Do you know if he was ex-NYPD or not?

A. He told me in one of our conversation he was a retired cop.

Q. Did he talk about being a cop a lot?

A. No.

Q. Did he tell you what his role was at the facility?

A. He said it chartered the security system, and he was my

initial contact for all the invoices until he got too busy.

Q. Did he talk to about what the security system was?

MR. FERGENSON: Objection to hearsay.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.

A. No.

Q. He didn't tell you. Okay. Let me move to a little bit of

a different point. Okay.

You remember the government showing you a few invoices

involving -- and I have trouble with this word, LaBarbiera

Custom Homes, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And there was a point-person for that company named Vinny,

right?

A. Yes.

Q. Is it fair to say that you were aware that Vinny had been

at that property for many years before the sale to Taurus S,

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LLP?

A. I don't know if that's the case or not.

Q. Do you know if the same LaBarbiera Custom House had done

work on the property before?

A. Before when?

Q. Before you came on the scene?

A. I don't know one way or the other.

Q. Did you ever speak to this person name Vinny?

A. Yes.

Q. Did he ever tell you that he had worked on that property

for many years?

A. He did not mention it.

Q. Did he speak to you in English?

A. Yes.

Q. He didn't speak Mandarin to you, right?

A. I don't speak Mandarin.

Q. And did you physically ever meet him?

A. No.

Q. Did you ever zoom with him?

A. No.

Q. Now, do you recall discussing with him renovations that

would be needed on the property, including the renovations in

the garage on the property?

A. I received invoices from him for the renovations, and he

was also in the beginning receiving payment on behalf of his

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subcontractors until I was paying them directly.

Q. So is it fair to say that when you got an invoice, right,

you didn't evaluate -- you didn't make any evaluation of the

invoice itself, right?

A. The evaluation I did, if it was an installment contract and

there were several payments to make sure I was paying what was

supposers to be paid and it wasn't duplicative to make sure the

work was completed before I paid it, but that was the extent of

my review.

Q. If Vinny double-billed, you wouldn't check that, right?

MR. FERGENSON: Speculation.

MS. SHROFF: I'm asking if she would check that.

THE COURT: So the question would be did you check his

bills.

Q. Did you check his bills?

A. I did.

THE COURT: So it's now 11:30, and we're going to take

our break. Members of the jury, remember that you're not

allowed to talk amongst yourselves about the case. Don't

permit anyone to discuss it in your presence. Don't read,

listen or watch anything from any source that touches on the

subject matter of this case.

THE LAW CLERK: Jury exiting.

THE COURT: Ms. Buck, you can step out. Don't discuss

your testimony.

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(Jury not present)

THE COURT: You may be seated. Is there anything

before we reconvene at noon?

MR. FERGENSON: Not from the government.

MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, just one matter. The defense

has given the government the defense exhibits it seeks to

introduce through Ms. Buck. They are the same documents that

were produced pursuant to the Buck LLC account. To the extent

the government wants to stipulate to the admittance, it will

certainly make the cross go faster.

MR. FERGENSON: We have not been told about any

exhibits that they're seeking to introduce through Ms. Buck.

THE COURT: So you'll work it out during the break.

MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.

(Recess)

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O6O1GUO3

AFTERNOON SESSION

12:00 p.m.

(Jury not present)

THE COURT: Please be seated.

Juror No. 12 told a member of my staff that he wanted

to speak with me concerning a scheduling issue. So if you'll

bring him in, please.

(Juror present)

THE COURT: And just sit in the first seat.

You may sit down.

You're Juror No. 12, correct?

JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: What's the problem?

JUROR: I'm the executive directer of a small non

profit. We are short-staffed.

THE COURT: If you'll speak up, please.

JUROR: We're short-staffed. We're at the end of the

fiscal year, a lot of things going on. One thing that is going

on is we're vacating one of our offices by June 30th. That's

the end of the lease. We haven't been able to negotiate

anything with the landlord, and I'm concerned that he might

lock us out. If there is a way that the Court could intervene

so that we get an extension, so that I can continue? I'm fully

committed to this, but——I hate to be locked out. We have

confidential records of our clients and——

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O6O1GUO3

THE COURT: Do you have an attorney?

JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: And your attorney is dealing with the

landlord?

JUROR: Not at this point, but I could call him and——

THE COURT: So that would be my first suggestion is

that you speak with your attorney. Maybe you can get an

extension.

JUROR: I tried to negotiate that with him and he

got——he wants me to stay and negotiate a long-term lease. And

we're not going to do that.

THE COURT: So you're looking for a short-term

extension.

JUROR: A short-term extension; a month, maybe two

months. Not even that.

THE COURT: That seems like something that might be

able to be accomplished by your attorney, and so I would like

you to check with the attorney and find out. You could call

him or her this afternoon.

If you're not able to get an extension, what would

happen?

JUROR: He will probably lock us out. He will want

the rent anyway. My concern is the records, that they——we're

trying to remove all the records in case he does lock us out.

THE COURT: And so what impact, if any, would that

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have on your role as a juror in this case?

JUROR: If it's locked out and we cannot do anything,

then I'm here and I wait till we finish.

THE COURT: So essentially your request is whether I

can intervene in this issue.

JUROR: Right.

THE COURT: I wish I could. But because this is a

private matter between your organization and the landlord, I

have no authority to get involved, and so I regret to give you

that news, and I wish you luck.

JUROR: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, your Honor.

THE COURT: Yes.

(Juror not present)

THE COURT: Would you have all the jurors brought out,

please.

(Jury present)

THE COURT: You may resume the stand.

Please be seated.

Ms. Buck, remember that you're still under oath.

You may continue the inquiry.

BY MS. SHROFF:

Q. Ms. Buck, I apologize. I'm not quite sure where we left

off. But I am going to pick up where we were talking about

NDAs, okay?

A. Okay.

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Q. Did you keep a file of the NDAs that were signed and sent

back to you, or did you just simply confirm they were signed?

A. I kept a file. I have a file folder for each contractor or

vendor.

Q. And would it be fair to say that you had no NDA for

Mr. Barnett?

A. I don't recall having one, no.

Q. And did you have an NDA for Ms. Chow?

A. I don't recall having one for her either.

Q. Do you recall if you had an NDA for Mr. Cao?

A. No.

Q. How about for Sean Jing?

A. I don't recall having one, no.

Q. Okay. Did you know that Sean Jing worked for G Club?

A. No.

Q. Did you ask him where he worked?

A. I did not.

Q. Did you know where Mr. Cao worked?

A. No.

Q. Did you ask him?

A. I never spoke to him.

Q. Did you email with him?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you email and ask him where he worked?

A. No.

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Q. Now about Mr. Barnett, you testified that at one point he

was always your first point of contact, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. And I'm not sure if I recall this correctly. Did you in

person ever meet him?

A. No.

Q. And it's fair to say that the government showed you a fair

number of documents from Mr. Barnett, correct, email exchanges

from Mr. Barnett, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And at times they highlighted for you the different email

addresses that he used, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And sitting here today, do you know how many email

addresses Mr. Barnett had?

A. I don't.

Q. Do you know if he had an email address called

frontsight1@outlook.com?

A. That's the primary one I emailed back and forth with him.

Q. And Mr. Fergenson here highlighted for you a GS email

address that he had, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. Do you know if he had any other addresses?

A. Not that I recall.

Q. And when you were sent email addresses from different

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emails from Mr. Barnett, you assumed it was the same

Mr. Barnett, right?

A. Yes.

Q. You didn't email back and say, which Mr. Barnett are you?

A. No.

Q. Okay. Now it's fair to say, Ms. Buck, that throughout the

course of your work, you never thought you were doing anything

improper, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. And sitting here today, you still don't think you were

doing anything improper, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. You had invoices that you received, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And you checked to make sure that the person was

authorizing payments on the invoices, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Then you processed the invoices, correct?

A. First I confirmed the wire instructions verbally.

Q. Right. As you're required to, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. And in fact, you were quite diligent; you always put that

in your email, "Please confirm them orally," correct?

A. Yes, to——for problems with wire fraud.

Q. Right. And they would be confirmed orally, correct?

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A. All of them.

Q. Right. And if they weren't confirmed orally, you wouldn't

process the payment, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. And you in fact were quite diligent, you kept an Excel

sheet, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And did you share that Excel sheet with anybody else such

as Scott Barnett or anyone else?

A. Yes, with the authorized people, Scott Barnett, Sean Jing,

Gladys Chow, obviously Aaron Mitchell.

Q. Right. And there was no issue ever; nobody ever raised an

issue saying something hadn't been paid or some number was

overstated, correct?

A. Sometimes there would be questions. If invoices were paid,

if the wire didn't go through, depending on timing; sometimes

they're held up, like, in the cloud, that they don't see them,

but——I don't think there were any issues of what I was paying.

Q. Right. And they were generally pretty happy with you,

right?

A. I didn't hear complaints.

Q. Good. Okay. So with that, may I just direct your

attention with a little more focus to certain documents that

you were shown, okay?

And maybe I can ask you some of the questions without

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the documents.

The government showed you the certificate of

incorporation and documents from the State of Nevada, correct?

A. It was articles of organization, yes.

Q. Right. Nothing unusual about that, right?

A. It's a filed copy for that state, yes.

Q. Right. And they can open a corporation if they want in

Nevada or in Maine, right?

A. They can open an entity anywhere.

Q. Right. And they told you where they opened the entity,

right?

A. Well, I could see it on the articles of organization. It

was in Nevada.

Q. Right. But they're the ones who sent you the documents,

right?

A. Correct. I did not form it.

Q. Right. And you had no questions; you didn't ask them why

Nevada or why did you pick this state or anything like that,

right?

MR. FERGENSON: Object to form. Multiple questions.

THE COURT: If you'll break it down.

Q. Did you ask them why Nevada?

A. I did. I asked Aaron again, 'cause typically, in a New

Jersey transaction, it's a New Jersey LLC. It's not uncommon,

if you want to use a different state, but we were also getting

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pressure to close on time because it's year end, and he said it

was just a layer of privacy——

Q. Okay.

A. ——for the client.

Q. Right. And when he answered that question for you, did you

feel like you got a proper answer from him?

A. I did.

Q. Okay. Now you were shown a document, which was 1295. If I

could just have that pulled up for you.

This is your email to Aaron Mitchell, correct, where

you set out your terms of your representation?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And it goes to his——is that his law firm address

that you see up top?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And this was just an easy way to set up the

agreement between you and the person you were going to work

for, correct?

A. This was to document a continuing representation because

what I signed on for and what we did were not the same, so I

wanted documentation of what we were doing going forward.

Q. Okay. And Mr. Mitchell received this email and responded

to you, correct?

A. He did.

Q. Okay. And did he tell you what the estimate was so that

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you could plan accordingly?

A. No.

Q. Okay. And did you follow up with him?

A. I did.

Q. Okay. Now you were also asked questions about——

MS. SHROFF: You can take that down. Thank you.

Q. You were also asked about several payments that you made

and you were shown a whole group of invoices, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. So some of the invoices were from a person

named Gladys Chow, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And she signed off on the emails and said she was the

project manager, right?

A. That was in her email, yes.

Q. Right. Did you ever ask her what project she was managing?

A. I did not.

Q. Did you know what the name of the project was?

A. I don't.

Q. Now let me show you what the government marked as 822.

It's Exhibit 822.

MS. SHROFF: And if we could just scroll down.

Q. And I think that the government was focused on page 7,

correct, 7 and 8? Do you recall looking at this document?

MS. SHROFF: Let's just stay on the first page.

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Q. Do you recall this document, ma'am?

A. I do.

Q. Okay. And it says Demolition Work to Be Provided in the

Following Areas. Correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And could you read what it says below that.

A. "2nd level ladies master wing."

Q. Right. Is that ladies in plural?

A. It is.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. And if we could just go to the

next page.

Q. You see on the top it says "3rd level sons wing," correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you know if that family in question had a son?

A. I don't know anything about the family.

Q. Do you know if there was even a son that was living in the

United States at any point in time of your representation?

A. I don't know one way or the other.

Q. Okay. And it said, on the same thing, on the same

document, it talked about the second level bedroom bath

converted to laundry, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. You have no idea what that means.

A. I do not.

Q. Okay. And I don't want to belabor this by going through

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each one of these, but none of us know what——well, forget about

us. You don't know what it means, what the work was when it

says, "Ceiling to be sawcut to receive 7 chandelier locations

centered on existing arches," right? No?

A. I do not.

MS. SHROFF: And if we could just scroll down some

more on this document. And keep going down.

Q. And you see right there, it says, "Daughter's Wing Level

3," right?

A. Yes.

Q. And you've already said you don't know if he had a

daughter, but what does it mean to you when it says, "Denoted

walls to be removed"?

MR. FERGENSON: Objection to form, and she didn't say

that.

THE COURT: Sustained. The witness did not state

that.

Q. Do you know if the family had a daughter?

A. I don't know one way or the other.

Q. Thank you. What were the denoted walls to be removed?

A. I don't know. I didn't have construction plans.

Q. What are marked openings?

A. Usually they're on construction plans, that I didn't see.

Q. Okay. Do you know if there were even construction plans?

A. I don't know if there was or was not.

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Q. Then it talks about "new partitions to be sheetrocked and

spackled," correct?

A. Yes, that's what it says.

Q. And I'm assuming you also don't have an understanding of

what that means?

A. I don't.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. And if I could just have us just

keep scrolling down.

Just keep going down.

And still one more page down.

And the last page, please.

Q. And that document tells you that there is a total contract

price, correct?

A. It does.

Q. And then it tells you a deposit amount, a midway payment,

right?

A. Yes.

Q. And there is no computation on balance on completion.

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. And these are just documents that you would process;

you would not question whether or not the bill was appropriate,

right?

MR. FERGENSON: Object to form.

THE COURT: So if you'll break it down, please.

MS. SHROFF: Sure. You know what, it's okay. I'll

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withdraw that question. We can just move on to the next

document.

Let's look at Document 168.

BY MS. SHROFF:

Q. So is it fair to say that the bills that you got from this

Labarbiera generally had the same format, right?

A. For this contract, I paid the installment payments, but for

other invoices, he had subcontractors included so they would

look different.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. So if we could just go to the next

page of this particular document.

And then the next one.

The next page, please.

Okay. Right there.

Q. Okay. You see these additional terms?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Were those terms worked out by you or just between

these two individuals, the Taurus Fund and Labarbiera Custom

Homes?

A. For this particular contract, I don't recall dealing

directly with the contractor, so I gave suggestions for

contract terms to Aaron or Scott Barnett. I don't recall which

one.

Q. Okay. And would you give those suggestions to them by

telephone or would you email those to them?

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A. I emailed them.

Q. Okay. And do you know if they incorporated your

suggestions or not? It's fine if you don't recall.

A. I'm reading them. I——I don't recall if those were my words

or if they were Aaron's.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. Let's move on to Government

Exhibit 851, please.

And if I could just have the middle section, which is

12:33 p.m., enlarged.

Q. Do you know what Prevenitas is?

A. That's the company that I received invoices for. It looked

like a——for security equipment.

Q. Okay. How about New York Business Systems?

A. I do not recall.

Q. Okay. And Monster Air Heating and Cooling?

A. HVAC equipment.

Q. Okay. And the remaining fees seem self-evident, but do you

recall with any specificity what those were for?

A. I'm sorry. Can you repeat that?

Q. I said the remaining three payments——Fine Rugs, RDM Fine

Art, and Fine Rugs——seem self-evident, but do you recall what

they were for?

A. For rugs and fine art. I don't remember specifics other

than that.

Q. Okay. And this email is from you, and you're letting

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Gladys know, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Scott and Gladys, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. And Gladys you're reaching at hchktech.com, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And Scott Barnett at frontsight1@outlook, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Now when you were emailing Ms. Chow at this email address,

were you perplexed by the use of that email address, by any

chance, back then?

A. I didn't think much of it. I assumed she was maybe an

independent contractor and had her own company.

Q. Okay. And sitting here today, you don't know otherwise,

right?

A. I don't know anything about it.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. Now let's move on, if we may, to

709, please.

Okay. And this document, if I could just have it made

somewhat larger.

Q. Now the government showed you this document, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And you testified on direct that you did not know who lived

at 373 Taconic Road, Greenwich, Connecticut, right?

A. That is correct.

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Q. And is it fair to say that sitting here today, you still

don't know who lives there, right?

A. I don't know who lives there.

Q. Okay. And if we could just take a look, the date on the

top is 1/18/2022, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And is it fair to say that there was more than one of these

invoices that you processed?

A. I believe there was more invoices from Flat Rate, yes.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. So let's just scroll down, if we

can.

Q. Okay. And this one's for how much?

A. $118,000.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. And if we could just keep

scrolling down.

All right. And let's just look at the items that are

shipped, okay? If we could just make them larger.

Q. So I'm not going to have you read each one of these, but do

you know where these items were coming from?

A. I didn't think about it.

Q. Okay. But looking at the document now, can you tell where

they're coming from?

A. It looks like they're being moved from 373 Taconic Road.

Q. Okay. So when you looked at this document and the

inventory, you cannot tell if any of these items are purchased

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and being shipped from the Connecticut address——

MR. FERGENSON: Object to form.

MS. SHROFF: I hadn't finished, but I'm happy to try

again.

THE COURT: Go ahead.

Q. ——or whether they were items that were in that Connecticut

home that are now being shipped?

MR. FERGENSON: Object to form.

THE COURT: So——

MR. FERGENSON: It's confusing.

THE COURT: You need to break it down.

Q. Do you know, that extra large cabinet in living room, when

it was purchased?

A. I do not.

Q. Looking on the third side, the chair desk study, do you

know if it was purchased or simply in the Connecticut home and

being shipped here?

MR. FERGENSON: Object to form.

THE COURT: So are you asking whether it was purchased

through the system that she was involved with or whether it was

purchased ever? What is the question?

MS. SHROFF: Sure. I'll try again, your Honor. Sorry

about that.

BY MS. SHROFF:

Q. You don't know if that chair desk was an old piece of

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furniture in the Connecticut home being shipped to New Jersey,

correct?

A. I don't know anything about that chair.

Q. Right. So you don't even know, for example——

MS. SHROFF: Let's just scroll down.

MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered. She doesn't know.

MS. SHROFF: I have not asked the question yet.

Please keep scrolling down.

Right there.

Q. You see the credenza large, bedroom three? Sitting here

today, you don't know if that credenza had anything in it when

it was moved, correct?

A. I don't know anything about it.

Q. Okay. And you don't know, for example, on the left side,

if the table side small had papers in it, correct?

A. I don't know anything about it.

Q. Okay. And is it fair to say that you don't know anything

about any of these items that were shipped?

A. That's a fair statement.

Q. And that is because it was simply not your job, correct?

Your job was just to pay the invoice.

A. You didn't ask me a question.

Q. Oh, I'm sorry. Your job was just to pay the invoice that

had been authorized for payment, correct?

A. Yes.

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Q. Okay. You received invoices for camera equipment; is that

right?

A. I believe so.

Q. And you received invoices for lighting, correct?

A. Yes, for lighting.

Q. Okay. And you processed those invoices as well, right?

A. I did.

Q. Now let me show you what is marked as Defense

Exhibit 60613. Do you recognize that document?

A. I do.

Q. Okay.

MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, the defense moves DX 60613

into evidence.

MR. FERGENSON: No objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Defendant's Exhibit 60613 received in evidence)

Q. And did you review this proposal?

MS. SHROFF: Oh, I'm sorry. May I have it shown to

the jury. I always forget that.

Q. Do you review it at all, this document?

A. Can you show me other pages of it. I don't——

Q. Of course. Of course. So let's just slow down.

MS. SHROFF: Can we go one page back.

Q. Do you see on the top it reads, "Provides video

monitoring," correct?

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A. It does.

Q. Okay. And one page before this one, "Benefits of a

security operations center." Correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And is it fair to say that you didn't inquire about

what the security operations center was, right?

A. I did not.

Q. Okay. And let's just look at the last page then.

Do you recall what you did with this document?

A. I saved it in my system.

Q. Did you make a payment on it, do you recall?

A. I made several payments to Prevenitas. I don't recall if

it was specific to this proposal.

Q. Okay. But let's look at the next one, which is 60614.

That's Defense Exhibit 60614. Do you recall receiving this

document?

MR. FERGENSON: We have no objection to admitting it.

THE COURT: So it is admitted.

(Defendant's Exhibit 60614 received in evidence)

MS. SHROFF: Thank you, your Honor.

Q. Do you recall receiving this document?

A. I believe, yes, I received this.

Q. And you see the dollar amounts on the side? I'm not going

to make you read them, but do you see them there?

A. Okay. I do.

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Q. Okay. And there's a total of 392,000 some-odd change,

right?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you pay it; do you know? Not you. I'm sorry about

that. I know you didn't pay any of these bills. You

authorized payments.

A. Yes. I don't remember the amounts, but I did make several

payments to Prevenitas.

Q. Okay. Thank you.

MS. SHROFF: We can take that down and move to 60618.

Q. And it says there, if you could read——

MR. FERGENSON: If this is being offered, your Honor,

we do not object to it coming in.

THE COURT: And which one is this?

MS. SHROFF: 60618, your Honor.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Defendant's Exhibit 60618 received in evidence)

BY MS. SHROFF:

Q. And I'm going to do this very briefly. This discussed the

threat and vulnerability assessment, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And it is for the same property that is listed to Taurus

Fund, LLC on the top, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And it's the attention to Scott Barnett, correct?

3974

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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A. Yes.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. We can take that down.

We can do 60620. And assuming the government has no

objection, your Honor, we would move it into evidence.

MR. FERGENSON: If they could show it to the parties

first so we can see.

THE COURT: So bring it up.

MR. FERGENSON: No objection, your Honor. Thank you.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Defendant's Exhibit 60620 received in evidence)

BY MS. SHROFF:

Q. You recognize it, right?

A. I do.

Q. Okay. And was that dollar amount paid; do you know?

A. That's my handwriting on the bottom so it was probably part

of that larger payment total is my guess. I'd have to see my

records, but it was paid.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. And if I could just have it zoomed

out.

Q. And I'm assuming that you don't know what camera powder

coating or any of these other expenses are, right? They just

seem to be related to security cameras?

A. Correct. I don't know what they are one way or the other.

Q. Thank you.

MS. SHROFF: If I could have 60621 shown to government

3975

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

counsel and the witness and the Court.

MR. FERGENSON: We have no objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Defendant's Exhibit 60621 received in evidence)

Q. Did the government show you this document when you met with

them to prepare?

A. I don't specifically recall this one.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. You can take that down.

If I could please do the same with 60623.

And if the government has no objection, we would move

60623 into evidence.

MR. FERGENSON: No objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Defendant's Exhibit 60623 received in evidence)

BY MS. SHROFF:

Q. Did you discuss this document with Mr. Fergenson when you

met with him?

A. I don't specifically recall this document being discussed.

Q. And I'm assuming you do not know which innovation

technology they actually ended up using, but you paid the bill

once you were authorized to pay, correct?

MR. FERGENSON: Objection to form.

THE COURT: So it's two questions in one.

MS. SHROFF: I'm happy to do it——

THE COURT: Just ask them separately.

3976

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

MS. SHROFF: Okay.

Q. What is the document titled?

A. It's a Security Camera Surveillance System Installation

Proposal.

Q. And the date?

A. January 29, 2022.

MS. SHROFF: And if I could just have——Mr. Salazar,

could you just scroll through for me.

Q. What is that an image of?

A. It says Property Overview.

Q. Okay. And do you know what property it's talking about?

A. If you look at the first page, I think it's the Crocker

Mansion address.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. And let's just go to page 3.

Page 4.

Page 5.

And is there a page 6? No. Okay. So page 5 is the

last one.

Q. And there's the total project costs, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And I'm assuming you don't recall if you discussed this

document with Mr. Fergenson.

A. I don't specifically recall discussing this document.

Q. Okay. Do you recall if this amount was paid?

A. This amount, I don't specifically recall. I've paid

3977

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

several payments to Prevenitas.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. Let's look at 60625, still a

defense exhibit.

Q. What is that, ma'am?

A. This is an email to me from Scott Barnett.

Q. Okay. And if we could just——

MR. FERGENSON: I'm sorry. Is this being shown to the

jury?

THE JURORS: No.

MR. FERGENSON: Okay. I apologize. I have no

objection to this coming in.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Defendant's Exhibit 60625 received in evidence)

MS. SHROFF: Now may we show it to the jury, please?

THE COURT: Go ahead.

BY MS. SHROFF:

Q. And it says, "Amy, here is a photo of the invoice,"

correct?

A. It does.

Q. Okay. And does he attach an invoice for you?

A. I believe he did. I don't specifically recall.

Q. Okay. And sitting here today, you don't recall if you

actually paid that invoice, correct?

A. I don't even remember what it is.

Q. All right. Well, let's just show you then 60624.

3978

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

MS. SHROFF: And don't show it to the jury, please,

Mr. Salazar. Thank you.

And if we could scroll down just for the witness and

the Court and the parties.

Q. Do you recall this document and its attachment?

A. It looks familiar, yes.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. We move 60624 into evidence.

MR. FERGENSON: No objection.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Defendant's Exhibit 60624 received in evidence)

Q. And with this document, he attaches the information from

Prevenitas, right?

A. Yes.

MS. SHROFF: And if we could just show that to the

jury and scroll down.

Thank you.

Q. Let me show you what is marked for evidence as 60626,

please. Do you recognize——

MS. SHROFF: Don't show it to the jury, Jorge. Thank

you.

Q. Do you recognize this document, Ms. Buck?

A. I don't specifically recall it, but it looks familiar, if

that makes sense.

Q. Was it sent to you?

A. Yes.

3979

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

Q. And is it from an electronic mail address that you

recognize?

A. Yes.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. The defense moves 60626 into

evidence.

THE COURT: No objection?

MR. FERGENSON: Just one moment, your Honor.

No objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Defendant's Exhibit 60626 received in evidence)

MS. SHROFF: So if we could just take a look at that

document, please.

BY MS. SHROFF:

Q. Would you tell the jury what B&H is.

A. I believe it's the company name. I don't know. I don't

remember offhand.

Q. And does the remaining portion of that line tell you what

kind of company it could be?

A. Do you want me to read it?

Q. Please.

A. Broadcast equipment.

MS. SHROFF: And if I could just go to the second page

of this document.

And if it could be enlarged for the jurors.

And if we could just move our way down.

3980

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

(212) 805-0300

O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

Q. You received this particular document, right?

A. I believe so, yes.

MS. SHROFF: And if I could just scroll back up for a

moment.

Q. It very clearly tells you, right, sold to Gladys——

MR. FERGENSON: Objection to the characterization,

your Honor.

THE COURT: So you can just state the words without

giving it a spin.

Q. This document tells the reader that the equipment is sold

to Gladys Chow, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. 6628 Sky Point Drive, Las Vegas, Nevada 89141, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And then it tells you where it's going to be shipped to,

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And the date on this is June 1, 2022.

A. Yes.

Q. Nobody's hiding any addresses, correct?

MR. FERGENSON: Objection.

THE COURT: Are you asking whether, looking at the

document, she can tell that something is hidden?

MS. SHROFF: Yes.

THE COURT: Go ahead and answer.

3981

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

A. I took the document on its face. I don't know anything

otherwise.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. And let's just keep scrolling

down.

Q. And can you tell just by the title on the top who generated

that document?

A. B&H Photo-Video, I think.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. And if we could just go to the

last page, please.

Q. The total is for $67,416.73, right?

A. Yes.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. And the last one is 60628.

You know, actually, it's okay. I think we have

enough. I'll withdraw the last one.

Q. Now, Ms. Buck, Mr. Fergenson here asked you questions about

the documents in your binder, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And do you know how that binder was created?

A. I don't understand the question.

Q. Okay. Let me try again.

A. Okay.

Q. Do you know how he chose the documents?

A. I do not.

Q. Did he share his process with you?

A. No.

3982

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

(212) 805-0300

O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

Q. Okay. He gave you a set of documents and the two of you

reviewed them; is that correct?

A. He gave me the binder to review and stepped out of the

room.

Q. Okay. And then you sat and reviewed them, correct?

A. I did.

Q. And then did you discuss the documents with him?

A. I did.

Q. Okay. You and I have never met to discuss any documents,

right?

A. No.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. Give me one minute.

Q. Now you were shown 709 by the government, right? And if I

could just have that pulled up for you.

We went through this document before. Do you recall

what Mr. Barnett's role was in this, in the move, if he had a

role?

A. I don't recall if he sent any of those invoices to me.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. We can take that down and look at

1204.

Q. You remember testifying about this document on direct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And the government here, Mr. Fergenson, pointed your

attention to the job location being at Connecticut, correct?

A. Yes.

3983

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

Q. Okay. And the total bill for this one was what, $400; is

that right?

A. Yes.

Q. And did you authorize payment on this? Sitting here, do

you remember?

A. Not specifically, but I'm sure I paid it.

Q. Okay. Did you ask Sean why you were paying $400 for some

work done in Connecticut?

A. I did not.

Q. Okay. Now let's look at Government Exhibit 375.

And the government spent a lot of time asking you

about these mattresses, correct?

A. He asked me questions about them, yes.

Q. Yes. What color they were, how much they cost, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And you testified that you knew what Hästens

mattresses are, right?

Are you aware of the company?

A. I've heard of the name, but I couldn't tell you from where.

Q. Okay. And it's fair to say that the government also asked

you questions about this email address for Mr. Barnett,

correct? Remember they focused your attention to GSNYUS.com?

A. Yes, they asked me questions today about that email

address.

Q. Okay. Do you know what that stands for?

3984

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

A. I do not.

Q. Did you ask Mr. Barnett, hey, why are you emailing me from

this address?

A. I'm not sure I realized it at the time, but I didn't ask

him.

Q. And you didn't ask Ms. Chow, right?

A. No.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. If we could just keep scrolling

down on that document, please.

Still 375, right?

Q. I'm not going to go over the price of all the mattresses

and everything, but you testified at great length about whether

they were blue or white and had a checked pattern, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. You paid for the mattresses because you were

authorized to release payment?

A. Yes, I was authorized to pay this invoice.

Q. Okay. And you didn't question why the mattresses were

being bought, right?

A. No. I didn't question them.

Q. And the only reason you're testifying about these

mattresses is because Mr. Fergenson picked this document and

asked you questions about it, right?

A. I don't think I understand your question. I'm sorry.

Q. You didn't choose this document to testify about, right?

3985

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

A. Correct, I didn't choose it.

Q. And you didn't flag it as a document that you found odd,

correct?

A. I didn't flag anything.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. Let's just move on.

Now let's go to Government Exhibit 522.

Q. You see this document?

A. Yes.

Q. You testified about this one as well?

A. Yes.

Q. And there were questions asked about where different things

were going, correct?

MS. SHROFF: You know what, just show her the photo

again since you had it up on the screen here already.

MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, I'm not sure what this is.

Is it a document in evidence?

MS. SHROFF: It's a Government Exhibit.

THE COURT: Which exhibit?

MS. SHROFF: It's W5V.1. It's a Government Exhibit in

evidence.

BY MS. SHROFF:

Q. Do you know who this person is?

A. I do not.

Q. Okay. Do you recognize the brass bookcases in the

background?

3986

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

A. I do not.

Q. You would not be able to match something you read on an

inventory sheet with this brass bookcase, correct?

A. I can't make that match, no.

Q. And you cannot tell if this photograph was taken in the New

Jersey residence or not, correct?

A. I don't know one way or the other.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. You can take that down.

Going back to 522.

Q. On the topmost part of this email, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Mr. Fergenson asked you questions about the piano going to

the New York office, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you know why the piano was going to the New York office

first?

A. I didn't ask.

Q. Do you know if it had to do with insurance?

A. I——I don't know one way or the other.

Q. How about the mattresses?

A. No one discussed with me where things were going or why.

Q. Okay. They sent you an email about it. As long as you

were authorized to pay it, you paid it, right?

A. Correct.

MS. SHROFF: All right. We can take that down.

3987

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

Q. You don't know who is at 3 Columbus Circle, correct?

A. I do not know that address.

Q. You don't know an address on East 64th Street, correct?

A. Can you repeat that. I'm sorry.

Q. Sure. Do you know of any significance to an address on

East 64th Street?

A. I don't recognize that address.

Q. You never heard of any place called the townhouse, correct?

A. I don't know one way or the other.

Q. Let me show you 1275, please.

Do you recall being asked questions about this——I

don't even know how to pronounce it——Amuneal bookcase?

A. I do.

Q. Okay. Do you know what an Amuneal bookcase is?

A. I do not.

Q. If I showed it to you, would you recognize one?

A. No.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. We can take that down.

Let's go to 1279, please. Thank you Jorge.

And if I could just have you scroll down, please.

And is there one more down? Go further down.

Q. Okay. And you see this email?

MS. SHROFF: If I could just have it made larger.

Q. You see this person? It's Ilona Musial, right?

A. Yes.

3988

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

Q. Was she fired?

A. I was told she was, yes.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. You can take that down.

How about 1275? If I could just have that made

larger.

And you know, I think I have the wrong number. Hold

on one second.

I'm sorry. I may have the wrong number, your Honor.

May I just have a moment?

THE COURT: Go ahead.

MS. SHROFF: Sorry.

I must have written down the exhibit number

incorrectly.

BY MS. SHROFF:

Q. But you recall Mr. Fergenson asking you questions about an

individual named Lee Ann at G Fashion?

A. Yes.

MS. SHROFF: Ms. Loftus, could you possibly help me

out with the exhibit number.

Q. Do you recall giving testimony about that document?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you know who Lee Ann is?

A. I don't know.

Q. Do you know what G Fashion is?

A. I do not.

3989

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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Q. Do you know if that company exists today?

A. I——I don't know one way or the other.

Q. Have you ever Googled G Fashion?

A. No.

Q. Do you know if G Fashion had some sort of office or space——

MR. FERGENSON: Objection.

Q. ——at the Mahwah mansion?

THE COURT: So she's testified that she doesn't know

of the company.

Q. Do you know if any company had space and did work out of

the Ramapo property?

A. I don't know one way or the other.

Q. Do you know if G Fashion clothing was left in that mansion?

MR. FERGENSON: Same objection.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Now you testified to certain questions posed by

Mr. Fergenson that you felt payment was authorized by the

family behind the Taurus Fund. Remember that?

A. I do.

Q. Okay. Sitting here today, you do not know if there was one

or several families behind the Taurus Fund, correct?

A. I don't know one way or the other.

Q. Right. So when you said family, you just used the

nomenclature, right?

A. The people I talked to, that's how they referred to them.

3990

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

I don't know anything beyond them being called the family.

Q. Okay. So you don't know how many people were in this

quote-unquote family, correct?

A. I do not know.

Q. Do you know if it was a joint family or a nuclear family?

A. Don't——

MR. FERGENSON: Objection to form. I'm not sure what

that means.

THE COURT: I don't understand what the meaning of

"joint family" is.

Q. Do you know what a joint family is?

A. I don't know.

Q. Okay. Would it be fair to say that a family can be defined

as a smaller unit versus a family with all of the siblings

included?

MR. FERGENSON: Just I guess objection to relevance

and knowledge.

THE COURT: Perhaps you could be more specific.

Q. Would it be fair to say that in certain cultures, family

would include all brothers, all of their wives, and all of

their children?

MR. FERGENSON: Objection, your Honor. She's not a

cultural expert.

MS. SHROFF: I'm asking for her understanding.

THE COURT: I'd like her opinion on that. Go ahead.

3991

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

A. I don't really have an opinion. All cultures are

different.

Q. Possible, right?

MR. FERGENSON: Objection to speculation.

THE COURT: Don't ask her to speculate. She's told

you all cultures are different.

Q. Are you familiar at all with the Chinese culture?

A. I am not.

Q. Do you know how a Chinese family would define family?

MR. FERGENSON: Objection. She said she doesn't know.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. You were asked questions about a person named Cao, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. You've never met the person, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. You got emails from this person, correct?

A. I was copied on emails that he wrote, yes.

Q. Did you ask what his job was?

A. No.

Q. Did you ask who he was employed by?

A. I did not.

Q. Now you testified about freaking out about the SEC

subpoena, right?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. And I hope somebody told you that's a normal

3992

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

reaction. But you reached out to Aaron Mitchell, correct?

A. I did.

Q. Okay. And you had a text exchange with Mr. Mitchell,

right? Was that a text exchange that——

MS. SHROFF: I need the exhibit up. I believe it

is——I'm sorry. What was the exhibit, Government Exhibit

number?

Q. Okay. This is 1290, correct?

A. This is a text exchange with Aaron and myself, yes.

Q. Okay. And you're in green?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. So you say you're in Hershey and you can't talk

right now. "Can I call u later," right?

A. Yes.

Q. And you then exchange a text with him in November, right?

November 9th.

A. Correct.

Q. And you say you wanted to give him a heads up that "I got

an information subpoena and deposition notice," right?

A. Yes.

Q. For Taurus Fund.

A. Yes.

Q. "Can we please catch up next week?" Right?

A. Yes, that's my text.

Q. Okay. And he suggests Monday at 2, right?

3993

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

A. I'm the green. That's me.

Q. Oh, sorry. So you suggest Monday at 2.

A. Yes.

Q. And do you know if you're being noticed for a deposition by

the Taurus Fund?

A. I don't believe it was, no.

Q. Okay. So who was noticing you for a deposition?

A. I don't remember, but it was for bankruptcy court.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. So let's just scroll down.

No, one page up.

Q. He says, "U got it! Thanks," right?

A. No, that's me.

Q. Still you?

A. Yeah, I'm green and then——oop, I'm gone.

Q. So what happens in the middle?

A. I——

Q. We've lost all signal.

MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I think we have some

technical difficulties with the equipment.

THE COURT: Okay. Well, we have sent an email to the

audiovisual department so they'll come up. Is there anything

that you could ask about that doesn't require the screen?

MS. SHROFF: Maybe Ms. Loftus can help me out.

Very good. Thank you.

MR. FERGENSON: Do you have the——I think it was 1290.

3994

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

Okay.

MS. SHROFF: So Ms. Loftus has it. Thank you so much,

Ms. Loftus.

BY MS. SHROFF:

Q. Okay. So you see there is a response saying, "Sure. Call

this number." Right? That's from Mr. Mitchell to you, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And then you say, "U got it! Thanks." Right?

A. Yes.

Q. And could you not reach him so you say to him, "Call me

please"?

A. I think it was he wanted me to call him on his cellphone

and not his work number, so——

Q. Okay. And do you know if he was traveling that day?

A. I have no idea.

Q. Okay. And then who is in blue now?

A. Blue is me.

Q. Okay. So you say to him, "Please call me asap. Thanks."

Right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And does he call you?

A. I don't think he did, 'cause I sent another text.

Q. Okay. And you text him and you say, "Call me when free

please-looking for update," correct?

A. Yes, that's my text.

3995

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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Q. Okay. Does that refresh your recollection that somewhere

along the way he told you he was busy but would call you back?

MR. FERGENSON: I don't think there was a failure to

recall, but that's fine.

Q. You see a response that says, "Call me when free please"?

A. Yes.

MR. FERGENSON: That's Ms. Buck's text, your Honor, as

she testified.

THE COURT: So which are you referring to? Is that in

blue?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

THE COURT: So what's the question?

BY MS. SHROFF:

Q. My question is: Do you see the first line, "Call me when

free please," right? Is that line in response to Mr. Mitchell

letting you know that he was not free to speak?

A. I think he didn't respond to my earlier text so I texted

him again.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. So let's keep scrolling down.

Q. And you see the government showed you this document,

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And do you know what the title of that document is?

A. It's too small.

Q. Do you have any recollection of what that document was?

3996

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

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O6O1GUO3 Buck - Cross

A. I know that's from the bankruptcy court. It's Notice of

Motion.

Q. Right.

A. Do you want me to read it?

Q. Just the title, please.

A. Notice of Motion for Extension of Time for Trustee to Bring

Claims Against Potential Defendants.

Q. Right. So is it fair to say you're a lawyer? I take that

back. You are a lawyer, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And it's fair to say, right, as a lawyer, you can

tell this jury that this is for an extension of time, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And when Mr. Mitchell tells you he's not intending to

respond to it, doesn't that tell you that he has no opposition

to the extension of time request?

MR. FERGENSON: Objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: Sustained. She cannot possibly know what

is on Mr. Mitchell's mind, what he meant.

Q. The motion is for an extension of time, correct?

MR. FERGENSON: Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. And Mr. Mitchell's response to this front page, you

testified, was that he did not plan to respond to this motion,

correct?

3997

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A. Yes, that was his text response.

Q. Okay. And sitting here today, do you know if you objected

to the extension of time?

A. I didn't respond to this one.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. So let's keep scrolling down.

Q. And then you and Mr. Mitchell continue to have an

interaction, correct? You keep texting, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And he says, "Yes. About 1,000 people got it."

Correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you take that as hyperbole or a true statement of fact?

A. I took it as an exaggeration, that a lot went out.

Q. Okay. And you responded saying, "That sounds amazing,"

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And Mr. Mitchell replied, like many litigators do, "Some

people are fighting——"

MR. FERGENSON: Objection to the commentary.

THE COURT: Don't enhance. Just ask the question.

Q. "Some people are fighting it, so if they win, we win,"

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And you say, "Gotcha. Do I need counsel for this

too?" Right?

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A. Correct.

Q. And he says, "Up to you, but I am not getting counsel or

responding." Correct?

A. Yes, that's his text.

Q. And the only document in this chain is a motion for

extension of time, correct?

A. Yes.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. Could we go all the way down.

Q. That's the end of the document, right?

A. Yes.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. We can take that down.

Q. You also testified about another conversation you had with

Mr. Aaron Mitchell, right, where you talked about——he talked to

you about the cost of doing business, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And you testified that Mr. Mitchell told you that the

government doesn't like the family, correct?

A. He said something along those lines, yes.

Q. Right. And he did not elaborate on which government it

was, correct?

A. He did not.

Q. He didn't tell you if the government was the United States

government, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. He didn't tell you if it was the Chinese Communist Party,

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correct?

A. Correct.

Q. And he didn't tell you why the government did not like the

family, correct?

A. I don't recall him explaining any of it.

Q. And sitting here today, you have no idea whether or not the

government liked or disliked this family, correct?

A. I don't know one way or the other.

Q. Exactly. And is it fair to say that when Mr. Mitchell was

talking to you about the Federalist Party of China——that's the

name you recall, right?

A. That's the name I recall, yes.

Q. You had no follow-up questions for him, right?

A. We may have conversed. I don't remember the details. It

wasn't important to me.

MS. SHROFF: Okay. Your Honor, may I just have a

moment, please.

THE COURT: Yes.

MS. SHROFF: Thank you.

Q. You were asked a series of questions about a person named

Luc Despins, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you know who that is?

A. I think that's the name on the bankruptcy paperwork.

Q. Okay. But do you know who it is?

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A. Oh, no.

Q. Do you know if it's a lawyer or not a lawyer?

A. I don't know one way or the other.

Q. Okay. Ms. Buck, sitting here today, could you tell the

jury how much you paid or how much you authorized in payments

for security at the property?

A. I don't know the number, the aggregate number.

Q. You didn't keep an aggregate number in your head for any of

the expenses, correct?

A. I did not.

Q. Right. And you had a limited role to play in all of this,

correct?

A. I paid the invoices that I was authorized to pay.

Q. And you gave a copy of all of those invoices to

Mr. Fergenson here, correct?

A. I believe so.

MS. SHROFF: I have nothing further, your Honor.

Thank you.

THE COURT: All righty. Let's have our redirect.

MR. FERGENSON: Thank you, your Honor.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. Ms. Buck, you were asked some questions about the

conversation regarding the Federalist Party of China. Do you

remember that?

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A. Yes.

Q. Just for clarity, who was that conversation with?

A. Aaron Mitchell.

Q. And when did the Federalist Party of China come up? When

was that conversation?

A. Around when I got the first subpoena.

Q. And who was that first subpoena from?

A. The SEC.

Q. Is the SEC part of the United States government?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Do you remember, Ms. Buck, you were asked questions

about whether Sean Jing worked for G|CLUBS? Do you remember

that?

A. Yes.

MR. FERGENSON: Can we please publish, Ms. Loftus,

GX BUCK 194.

And if we can just zoom on the top half, please.

Q. Ms. Buck, you see on the top right here, it says Customer

Name, Sean Jing?

A. Yes.

Q. And on the left it says Bill To, and it says Taurus Funds,

LLC and Sean Jing beneath that?

A. Yes.

Q. Is G|CLUBS listed anywhere on this document?

A. No.

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Q. And Sean Jing's email address, is that a G|CLUBS email

address?

A. No.

MR. FERGENSON: If we could go to, Ms. Loftus, Defense

Exhibit 60613.

Q. Now, Ms. Buck, you were asked a number of questions about

payments for security invoices. Do you remember those?

A. Yes.

Q. And this is one of the invoices you were shown, right?

A. Yes.

MR. FERGENSON: We can scroll down. And we can scroll

down to page 3, please.

And if we could just zoom in on the top paragraph

there.

Q. Ms. Buck, could you read the second sentence there that

starts, "Having 24/7."

A. "Having 24/7 video capabilities can keep your family and

operations safe."

Q. Now, Ms. Buck, who did you understand to be behind Taurus

Fund, LLC?

A. A family.

MR. FERGENSON: We can take that down, Ms. Loftus.

Q. Ms. Buck, I'm not going to show you documents again.

You were asked questions on cross about the

mattresses. Do you remember that?

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A. Yes.

Q. Those were Hästens mattresses, right?

A. Yes.

Q. They cost some $30,000 apiece, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you know if those mattresses have any special security

features?

A. I——I don't know.

MR. FERGENSON: Nothing further, your Honor.

THE COURT: Recross?

RECROSS EXAMINATION

BY MS. SHROFF:

Q. Do you know any mattress to have a security feature, ever?

A. I don't know one way or the other.

Q. Okay. Let's look at 194, shall we.

You see that document about Sean Jing, right? He

asked you questions if there was a G Club on here, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Do you know people to have more than one job at one

given time?

A. Sure, people can have more than one job.

Q. Right. This man could work here and at G Club, right?

MR. FERGENSON: Calls for speculation.

THE COURT: Can a person have more than one job?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

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THE COURT: Go ahead.

Q. I can work two jobs, right?

A. You can.

Q. Right. I could have a job at G|CLUBS in the morning and at

Walmart in the day, right?

A. I'm sure you can.

Q. There you go.

MS. SHROFF: We can take that one down.

And let's go to 60613.

Let's go to that line, "family and operations."

Q. Do you see that?

A. I do.

Q. Okay. Businesses have operations, correct?

A. They do.

MS. SHROFF: Thank you. You can take that down.

Q. And let me just take you to your many, many meetings with

Mr. Fergenson over here, right?

MR. FERGENSON: Scope, your Honor. This is recross.

We didn't talk about this.

MS. SHROFF: I think it's well within the scope.

THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead.

Q. You and Mr. Mitchell discussed the New Federal State of

China far earlier than June, correct? Do you recall that,

talking with Mr. Aaron Mitchell about the New Federal State of

China more than once? Right? You recall that?

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A. We may have. I don't specifically recall.

Q. All right. Well, let's see if we can help you out.

MS. SHROFF: If we could just show her.

Q. Does that help you out?

A. I don't know what NFSC is.

Q. New Federal State of China?

A. Oh.

MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, the question is if it

refreshes her recollection. She should not read the document

into the record.

THE COURT: So you just look at the document and

you'll say whether it refreshes your recollection.

THE WITNESS: Yes.

BY MS. SHROFF:

Q. Okay. You don't really remember much about this because

the New Federal State of China doesn't interest you, right?

MR. FERGENSON: Objection.

THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer. Go ahead.

A. I wasn't interested, no.

MS. SHROFF: Thank you. I have nothing further. Have

a nice day.

THE COURT: All righty. Thank you. You may step out.

(Witness excused)

THE COURT: The government may call its next witness.

MR. FERGENSON: The government calls Douglas Skalka.

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DOUGLAS SKALKA,

called as a witness by the Government,

having been duly sworn, testified as follows:

THE COURT: Please state your name and spell it.

THE WITNESS: My name is Douglas Skalka, S-K-A-L-K-A.

THE COURT: You may inquire.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. Good morning, Mr. Skalka.

A. Good afternoon.

Q. Good afternoon.

MR. FERGENSON: Your Honor, just before we get

started, if I may just offer an exhibit pursuant to a

stipulation?

THE COURT: Yes. Go ahead.

MR. FERGENSON: GXC-146 and GXC-146-T.

MR. KAMARAJU: No objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: They are admitted.

(Government's Exhibits C-146, C146-T received in

evidence)

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. Mr. Skalka, what do you for work?

A. I'm an attorney in private practice.

Q. What firm do you work at?

A. I work at the firm known as Neubert, Pepe & Monteith.

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Q. Mr. Skalka, you can adjust the microphone and you can pull

it closer to you.

What type of law do you practice?

A. I practice primarily in the area of bankruptcy and

financial distress, creditors rights, commercial transactions

involving financially distress entities and assets. Those are

my practice areas.

Q. How long have you been bankruptcy related law?

A. Approximately 35 years.

Q. Are you familiar with the bankruptcy proceedings of Ho Wan

Kwok or Miles Guo?

A. Yes, I am.

Q. How are you familiar with that?

A. My firm Neubert, Pepe & Monteith has been retained as

Connecticut counsel and conflicts counsel for the Chapter 11

trustee appointed in Mr. Kwok's bankruptcy proceeding.

Q. What name do you refer to him by?

A. I refer to him as Mr. Kwok or the debtor.

Q. Where was Mr. Kwok's bankruptcy filed?

A. It was filed in the bankruptcy court for the District of

Connecticut in Bridgeport, Connecticut.

Q. What type of bankruptcy did Kwok file?

A. It's a Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceeding.

Q. What typically happens in that type, the Chapter 11

proceeding that Mr. Kwok filed?

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A. Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings are commonly referred to

as reorganization proceedings, meaning that they're an effort

by the debtor to reorganize their financial affairs with an

effort to obtain a plan that's acceptable to the entities

creditors or the person's creditors and to emerge from the

bankruptcy proceeding as a more viable entity with a plan

acceptable to his or their creditors.

Q. Is there a bankruptcy trustee in Mr. Kwok's Chapter 11

case?

A. Yes.

Q. How was that trustee appointed at a high level?

A. The trustee was appointed by the bankruptcy court in the

District of Connecticut. I believe the order was entered in

June of 2022, and it was in response to a motion filed in the

bankruptcy case.

Q. And again just at a high level, what is the trustee's role

in Mr. Kwok's bankruptcy?

A. A Chapter 11 trustee, essentially the Chapter 11 trustee in

Mr. Kwok's bankruptcy case, essentially steps in the shoes of

the debtor and has all the powers and rights of a debtor, which

means he has the right to pursue the recovery of assets, to

pursue claims to recover assets for the benefit of creditors.

He also has a right to object to claims, and also to keep the

court and the creditors advised of what is going on in the

bankruptcy proceeding, meaning he has to file monthly reports

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with the bankruptcy court.

Q. You used the phrase creditor, what's a creditor?

A. A creditor is any party who has a claim against the debtor

and a claim can be brought, and it's broadly defined under the

bankruptcy code. Could be for a specific amount of money, an

unknown amount of money. It could be a contingent claim.

Those are all creditors.

THE COURT: Do you mean a creditor is a person or an

entity that believes that they are owed money?

THE WITNESS: It could be owed money or property.

THE COURT: Go ahead.

Q. Mr. Skalka, without getting into any privileged areas or

discussions, what role, if any, has your firm played as counsel

to the trustee?

A. My firm was retained as Connecticut counsel and conflicts

counsel for the Chapter 11 trustee.

Q. again without getting into any privileged stuff, at a high

level, what sort of work have you done in the bankruptcy?

A. So in that role, myself and my firm, my colleagues, have

filed pleadings on behalf of the trustee, attended hearings on

behalf of the trustee, pursued discovery from third parties on

behalf of the trustee, including serving subpoenas on third

parties to obtain information or documents from third parties.

In connection with pleadings, we have filed lawsuits. We have

filed motions. We have filed objections to other parties'

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motions.

Q. Could you at a high level just please explain the process

for your firm to be compensated for that work in the bankruptcy

proceedings?

A. Yes. As a court-approved professional, which is what my

firm is in the bankruptcy case, we are required to file what

are called fee applications periodically with the bankruptcy

court and seek to have our fees approved by the bankruptcy

court. Those fee applications are subject to objections by any

party in the bankruptcy case, as well as by the judge. The

judge ultimately has the decision as to what fees are awarded

and when they are paid.

Q. Have your fees been paid in Mr. Kwok's bankruptcy so far?

A. Some of my firm's fees have been paid.

Q. Now generally speaking, how is a trustee compensated in a

Chapter 11 case?

A. A Chapter 11 trustee like the Chapter 11 trustee in

Mr. Kwok's case has the right to seek a commission under the

bankruptcy code commission, meaning a percentage of the funds

that are recovered and run through the bankruptcy estate during

the course of the bankruptcy case. The trustee has the right

to seek that commission.

Q. And what's your understanding of how Mr. Kwok's bankruptcy

trustee is being compensated?

A. Mr. Kwok bankruptcy trustee --

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THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter request all parties to

slow down.

THE COURT: Please slow down.

Q. Mr. Skalka, what's your understanding of how Mr. Kwok's

bankruptcy trustee is being compensated?

A. Mr. Kwok's bankruptcy trustee has indicated he is not going

to seek commission as the trustee.

Q. What is the trustee's name?

A. His name is Mr. Luck Despins.

Q. Where does he work?

A. He is an attorney with the law firm of Paul Hastings.

Q. And what kind of law does he practice?

A. He's a bankruptcy attorney.

Q. What law firm is the main counsel or the primary counsel

for the trustee?

A. The trustee retained his law firm Paul Hastings as lead

counsel.

Q. Is it common or uncommon for a trustee to hire his or her

own bankruptcy practice?

A. When a trustee has a bankruptcy practice, sometimes

trustees are not in bankruptcy firms. A trustee could be not

even attorneys. But in this case, he's a bankruptcy attorney,

and he has a bankruptcy practice, so it is common for trustees

to retain their firms under these circumstances.

Q. Has the trustee filed actions to recover funds related to

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the bankruptcy?

THE INTERPRETER: Your Honor, if we may have both

parties to slow down.

THE COURT: Please speak slowly.

Q. Has the trustee filed actions to recover funds related to

the bankruptcy?

A. Yes, the trustee has commenced actions.

Q. Approximately how many actions?

A. The trustee has commenced to date approximately 300

actions.

Q. Approximately how much has been recovered to date?

A. To date the trustee has recovered over a hundred million

dollars.

Q. Mr. Skalka, are you billing for your testimony today?

A. I am not.

Q. Why are you testifying today?

A. I was requested to testify by your office.

Q. How many times approximately have you met with the U.S.

Attorney's office to prepare for your testimony?

A. I have met with the U.S. Attorney's office three times,

twice remotely and once in person.

Q. Now, Mr. Skalka, who is Mr. Kwok's largest known creditor?

A. Mr. Kwok's largest known creditor in the bankruptcy is an

entity known as Pacific Alliance Asia Opportunity Fund.

Q. Do you refer to that by any acronym?

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A. Yes, that entity is commonly referred to in the bankruptcy

case as PAX because frankly it's a lot to say Pacific Alliance

Asia Opportunity Fund.

Q. Can you spell PAX?

A. It's commonly spelled as PAX.

Q. At a high level, what is PAX?

A. PAX is a fund that lends money to commercial enterprises.

Q. And, Mr. Skalka, you could probably adjust the mic closer

to your mouth, if you could keep your voice up slightly. It's

a difficult to hear.

A. I'll get a little bit closer. Sorry.

Q. Perfect. Thank you.

Now, really quick, Mr. Skalka, could you spell the

last name of the trustee for us?

A. Despins, D-E-S-P-I-N-S.

Q. Now, going back to PAX. As part of your involvement in

Mr. Kwok's bankruptcy, have you become familiar with the

litigation between PAX and Mr. Kwok?

A. Yes, I have.

Q. Prior to the bankruptcy filing, was there a lawsuit between

PAX and Mr. Kwok?

A. Yes.

Q. What was PAX's claim against Mr. Kwok?

A. PAX claimed that Mr. Kwok had sign a personal guarantee

related to a loan that was made by PAX to a commercial

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enterprise, a business known as Shiny Time Holding. And PAX

was seeking to recover that loan that it had made to Shiny

Times Holding from Mr. Kwok.

Q. In laymen's terms, what's a personal guarantee?

A. It is a separate contract between a lender and the person

who signs the personal guarantee which essentially says if the

party that the loan is made to doesn't pay the loan for

whatever reason, the person who signs the personal guarantee,

often referred to as the guarantor, is essentially saying, I'm

going to be obligated to pay the loan if the party, the

borrower, doesn't pay the loan for whatever reason.

Q. Where was PAX's lawsuit regarding the personal guarantee

filed?

A. It's filed in the New York Supreme Court.

Q. And when approximately did PAX file this lawsuit in New

York Supreme court?

A. In 2017.

Q. And by the way, that court, is that state court or federal

court?

A. That is a state court.

Q. At a high level, what kind of document did PAX file to

start the lawsuit?

A. The document they filed was called a complaint.

Q. Just again at a very high level, what's a complaint?

A. A complaint is a document that commences a piece of

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litigation. It states the claim that the plaintiff, who is the

party that starts the litigation, the claim of the plaintiff

against a defendant or defendants, that claim is set forth in

the complaint.

Q. Did Mr. Kwok file an answer?

A. Yes.

Q. And what's an answer, again just very high level?

A. High level is the answer is, again a document filed in the

lawsuit responding to the claims asserted in the plaintiff's

complaint.

Q. And, Mr. Skalka, do you recall what PAX alleged in the

complaint that it had done prior to 2017 to recover the alleged

debt?

A. Yes, the complaint indicates that there were efforts made

by PAX to collect on its loan from Shiny Times and I believe

Mr. Kwok, and that there had been negotiations and even a

potential settlement reached at one point; but the complaint

indicates that that settlement fell apart or didn't go forward

for some reason.

Q. What's a demand letter?

A. A demand letter is a letter that is what it sounds like.

It's a letter written usually to a party that is owed, may owe

money to the sender of the letter. It's a demand to pay on a

debt.

Q. And were there, if ever, demand letters sent by PAX?

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MR. KAMARAJU: Objection to personal knowledge, your

Honor.

MR. FERGENSON: I can rephrase, your Honor.

THE COURT: Go ahead.

Q. Do you recall if PAX alleged they had sent demand letters?

MR. KAMARAJU: Objection to relevance.

THE COURT: If you'll set up.

(Continued on next page)

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(At the sidebar)

THE COURT: Is the complaint in evidence?

MR. FERGENSON: It's not. I think I can move on. My

only question, if I may ask Mr. Kamaraju just a question. We

can maybe resolve this, is there going to be cross on the

complaint that's filed in response to him being a Chinese

dissident?

MR. KAMARAJU: I'm going to ask the date when it was

filed. That's all.

MR. FERGENSON: If I need to get into this, I think we

can address it on redirect. I'll move on for now.

THE COURT: Thank you.

(Continued on next page)

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(In open court)

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. Mr. Skalka, at a high level did Mr. Kwok's answer admit or

deny the allegations?

A. Mr. Kwok's answer denied the allegation in the complaint.

Q. What, if anything, happened with the PAX lawsuit?

A. PAX at some point in the litigation filed what's referred

to as a motion of summary judgment seeking a judgment on its

complaint against Mr. Kwok.

Q. Was there a summary judgment ruling in the PAX case?

A. Yes.

Q. And at a high level, what was the ruling?

A. The court granted the motion filed by PAX and entered

judgment against Mr. Kwok.

Q. And what, if any, damages were awarded as well?

A. The court entered a judgment in the amount of roughly $114

million.

Q. And approximately when was that entered?

A. September of 2020.

Q. And at a high level, what was the basis for that amount of

damages?

A. That was the principal amount of the loan plus interest and

I believe some attorneys fees.

Q. What, if any, efforts did PAX make to collect on that

judgment?

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A. Soon after the court granted the summary judgment motion,

PAX filed a motion for a restraining order to restrain the

debtor or Mr. Kwok from transferring assets outside of the

jurisdiction.

Q. And were any restraining orders entered?

A. Yes.

Q. What is a restraining order?

A. It's an order from the court to restrain a party from doing

something. In this case it was an effort to restrain the

debtor Mr. Kwok from transferring assets.

Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could show the witness what's marked as

Government Exhibit 1416.

What's this document, Mr. Skalka?

A. This is a copy of the restraining order entered by the New

York Supreme court on October 15, 2020.

MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government

Exhibit 1416.

MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Government's Exhibit 1416 received in evidence)

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. Mr. Skalka, what date was this filed?

A. It was entered I believe on October 15, 2020.

Q. And if we could, Ms. Loftus, maybe we can make the text a

little larger just for reading.

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Mr. Skalka, could you please read these paragraphs

please?

A. On October 15, 2020, the court held oral argument via

Microsoft Teams with counsel for all parties participating on

plaintiff's motion for a post-judgment restraining order

pursuant to CPLR 5229 (motion 011). On September 15, 2020, the

court granted summary judgment in favor of plaintiff on

liability with damages on the issue of whether the corporate

defendants are defendant Kwok's alter egos to be determined at

a later date.

Q. If you could just read the next paragraph.

A. Plaintiff's motion for a restraining order pursuant to CPLR

5229 is granted. Mr. Kwok is restrained from making or causing

any sale, assignment, transfer or interference with any

property in which he as an interest, whether directly or

indirectly, and from paying over or otherwise disposing of any

debt now due or thereafter coming due to him subject to the

exception set forth in CPLR 5222 in accordance with the

proceedings on the record of October 15, 2020.

Specifically, Mr. Kwok and/or the registered owners

of, one, the residence at the Sherry-Netherland hotel; and two,

the yacht "The Lady May" are restrained from making or causing

any sale, assignment, transfer or interference with those

assets.

Q. Mr. Skalka, some of this refers to the word "plaintiff,"

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who is the plaintiff in this case?

A. PAX.

Q. And there's a reference to alter ego, what's an alter ego?

A. An alter ego is a related entity or an entity that is

controlled by a third party.

Q. And focusing you on the bottom paragraph number one, the

residence at the Sherry-Netherland hotel, are you familiar with

that residence?

A. I am in the context of the Kwok's bankruptcy proceeding.

Q. What's your understanding of the residence being referred

to?

A. I believe it refers to the co-op that was -- it is owned by

an entity known as Jennifer Holdings, LLC. It owns actually

the shares in that co-op.

Q. What kind of apartment was it?

A. It's a penthouse apartment at the property known as the

Sherry-Netherlands hotel on 5th Avenue, New York City.

Q. What, if any -- were there collection efforts with respect

to the Sherry-Netherland apartment?

A. Yes, PAX was seeking to recover its judgment or its claim

from the asset known as the Sherry-Netherland hotel apartment.

Q. What, if anything, happened with those efforts?

A. I'm sorry. I didn't hear your question.

Q. What, if anything, happened with PAX's efforts to collect

on the apartment?

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A. Shortly after the entry of this order, Jennifer Holdings,

LLC, filed its own Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings, so that

automatically stayed or stopped PAX's efforts to collect from

that entity.

Q. Why did it filing for bankruptcy automatically stop those

efforts?

A. Under the bankruptcy code, any bankruptcy filing creates

what is known as an automatic stay. It's under Section 362 of

the bankruptcy code. That stays all efforts by any creditor to

try to collect from the debtor while they're in bankruptcy

unless they obtain bankruptcy court relief to do so.

Q. Focusing on number two, the yacht, the Lady May. What, if

any, efforts did PAX make to collect via the yacht?

A. Well, in this case they had obtained this restraining

order, and I believe they were in the process of trying to

collect their judgment from the Lady May.

Q. Do you recall -- withdrawn.

What of note happened next with respect to the Lady

May?

A. According to the pleadings in this case, the Lady May was

moved outside of the jurisdiction of the New York Supreme

court, and PAX filed a motion for contempt against Mr. Kwok for

allegedly violating this restraining order by moving the boat

outside of the jurisdiction of the court.

Q. What is contempt?

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A. Contempt in this case is knowingly violating the court's

order.

Q. If we could show the witness what's marked as Government

Exhibit 1413.

Was the motion for contempt granted?

A. Yes, it was.

Q. Is this the order of contempt?

A. What I'm looking at now is a copy of the final order of

contempt which was entered in February of 2022.

MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit

1413.

MR. KAMARAJU: Subject to our prior objection, no

objection at this time.

THE COURT: All righty.

(Government's Exhibit 1413 received in evidence)

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. While we're waiting, Mr. Skalka, what date was this final

order of civil contempt entered?

A. February 9, 2022.

Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could zoom on the actual text, the bottom

half.

Mr. Skalka, could you please read the first paragraph?

A. Whereas this court's conditional order of civil contempt,

dated March 16, 2021, directed that if defendant Kwok Ho Wan

("Kwok") failed to return the Lady May yacht, the Lady May, to

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the jurisdiction of this court by May 15, 2021, he would be

subject to a $500,000 fine for each day that the Lady May

remained outside of the jurisdiction.

Q. And if you could read the next line, please.

A. Whereas the Lady May was not returned to the jurisdiction

by May 15, 2021.

Q. And if you could go ahead and read the next one, please.

A. Whereas on November 4, 2021, the Appellate Division's First

Department affirmed this court's order holding Kwok in

conditional civil contempt finding that "the daily fine of

$500,000 was intended to strongly encourage defendant to purge

himself of the contempt, which despite being permitted two

months to accomplish, he has shown no interest in doing." And

instructing this court to proceed with an evidentiary hearing

to resolve a dispute as to ownership and control of the yacht

and to assess appropriate penalties.

THE COURT: One moment, please.

(Pause)

THE COURT: You may continue.

Q. Mr. Skalka, if you could read the last line on this page.

A. Whereas Kwok to date has failed to return the Lady May to

the jurisdiction.

Q. Ms. Loftus, if you could go to the next page, please. Why

don't we zoom on the top half first.

Could you continue, Mr. Skalka.

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A. Whereas the evidentiary hearing specified by the First

Department's November 4, 2021, order was held on February 2,

2022.

Q. And if you could read the next line, please.

A. Whereas both Kwok and the registered title holder of the

Lady May, HK International Funds Investments (USA) Limited,

LLC, appeared at the hearing by counsel, proffered evidence and

were represented by counsel.

Q. Who is the owner, Mr. Skalka, of HK International Funds

Investments or the registered owner of HK International Funds

Investments USA Limited. LLC?

A. Mei Guo.

Q. What relationship, if any, did Mei Guo have to Mr. Kwok?

A. Mei Guo is Mr. Kwok's daughter.

Q. The evidentiary hearing reference here which family

members, if any, testified at that hearing?

MR. KAMARAJU: Objection, personal knowledge.

THE COURT: If you know.

Q. Which family members, if any, testified at that hearing?

A. The pleadings indicate that Mei Guo testified at the

hearing.

Q. If you could continue and read the third paragraph, please.

A. Whereas based on the evidence adduced at the hearing, the

court determines that PAX has clearly and convincingly

established that Kwok has a beneficial interest in and control

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over the Lady May as set forth in the court's February 9, 2022

decision and order.

Q. What is a beneficial interest, Mr. Skalka.

What's your understanding?

A. My understanding of beneficial interest as used in this

order is that he had, if he didn't have title to this property,

he had some interest in the property, some ownership interest

in the property.

Q. If we can scroll down. It says that accordingly it is

hereby ordered, adjudged and decreed that, and there's a list

or several things. Could you please read number one.

A. Kwok has violated New York Judiciary Law Section 753 and is

in civil contempt of this court's order.

Q. And number two?

A. Kwok is directed to tender immediate payment to PAX in the

amount of $134 million representing $500,000 for each day

between May 15, 2021 and February 7, 2022.

Q. And number three?

A. The amount due to PAX shall continue to accrue at the rate

of $500,000 per day until Kwok returns the Lady May to the

jurisdiction which additional accrual shall begin 10 business

days from service of this order with notice of entry.

Q. And number four, please.

A. Payment of the amount set forth in paragraph two above

shall be made to PAX within five business days of the service

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of this order with notice of entry.

Q. And number five?

A. The court shall exercise its full authority under New York

Judiciary Law Section 753 in the event the fine is not timely

paid to PAX.

Q. And what authority besides filings does the court have

under that law?

A. The court under that statute also has the right to issue

what are called capias orders.

Q. What does that mean?

A. An arrest warrant.

Q. Mr. Skalka, focusing you on number four, approximately how

long did Kwok, Mr. Kwok, have to pay the $134 million?

A. He had five business days.

Q. Did Mr. Kwok in fact make that payment?

A. No.

Q. What happened instead?

A. On February 15, 2022, the Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing was

made in the District of Connecticut.

Q. And how soon was that filing made -- withdrawn.

What was the timing of that filing with respect to the

deadline to pay the 134 million?

A. It was six days. I believe it's within the five business

days though of this order. It's six days after the entry of

this order from Judge Ostrager.

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Q. Can we show the witness what's marked as Government Exhibit

1407. Mr. Skalka, what's this document?

A. This is a copy of the voluntarily petition filed by

Mr. Kwok on February 15, 2022 in the District of Connecticut.

MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit

1407.

MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Government's Exhibit 1407 received in evidence)

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. Ms. Loftus, maybe we can just blow up the middle portion

perhaps. Underneath about debtor one, what name is listed

there?

A. Ho Wan Kwok.

Q. And what are the other names listed beneath that?

A. Miles Kwok, Miles Guo, Wengui Guo.

Q. And to the right of that it says about debtor two, and in

parenthesis spouse only in a joint case. Is that filled out?

A. No.

Q. What is the name of Mr. Kwok's spouse?

A. Hing Chi Ngok.

Q. Could you spell that for the court report, please.

A. H-I-N-G, C-H-I, N-G-O-K.

Q. Ms. Loftus, if we can go to page two, please. If we could

zoom on where you live.

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What did Mr. Kwok put for where he lives?

A. He put an address care of Golden Spring New York Limited at

162 East 64th Street in New York.

Q. Ms. Loftus, let's go to page seven, please. If we can zoom

on the bottom half.

Mr. Skalka, in number 18, how many creditors did

Mr. Kwok estimate he owed?

A. He estimated that he had somewhere between 50 to 99

creditors.

Q. And how much did he estimate that he owned in assets?

A. He indicated that he had assets worth between $50,001 and

$100,000.

Q. And focusing you on the bottom left, who signed this?

A. Mr. Kwok.

Q. Now we can take that down, Ms. Loftus.

Mr. Skalka, did filing for a bankruptcy resolve the

issue with the Lady May?

A. No, it did not.

Q. Did there come a time when an agreement was reached to hold

funds in escrow as security for the Lady May?

A. Yes.

Q. Ultimately how much was put into escrow?

A. $37 million.

Q. And who were the parties to that agreement?

A. It was an agreement reached between PAX, Mr. Kwok, the

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creditors committee, which was a committee appointed by the

U.S. bankruptcy court in the District of Connecticut and HK --

what I refer to as HK USA.

Q. Just remind us, what is HK USA?

A. It was the entity owned by Mei Guo that claim to be the

title holder to the Lady May.

Q. What was the source of the $37 million that was put into

escrow pursuant to that agreement?

A. The source was a loan made to HK USA.

Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could show the witness what's marked as

Government Exhibit 1314.

MR. FERGENSON: May I have just a quick moment, your

Honor.

THE COURT: Go ahead.

Q. While we're waiting, Mr. Skalka, do you recall the date the

loan agreement was executed or the date on the loan agreement?

A. I believe it was April 19, 2022.

Q. And just for context, about how long after the filing of

Mr. Kwok's bankruptcy is that?

A. It's approximately two months after the filing.

Q. Can you see it on your screen, Mr. Skalka?

A. Yes.

Q. What is this document?

A. This is a copy of the loan agreement between HK

International Funds Investment USA, Limited LLC and Himalaya

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International Financial Group, LTD.

MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government

Exhibit 1314.

MR. KAMARAJU: No objection your Honor.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Government's Exhibit 1314 received in evidence)

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. Now that we can see it, Ms. Loftus if you can zoom in on

the text on the cover page.

So it says dated 19th of April 2022, do you see that,

Mr. Skalka?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you read who this loan agreement is between?

A. Loan agreement between HK International Funds Investments

USA Limited LLC and Himalaya International Financial Group LTD.

Q. Let's go to page two, Ms. Loftus, if we could just keep

scrolling down. Just to focus on the bottom line there where

it says the yacht.

Can you read what's just in the quotation mark after

the yacht, Mr. Skalka?

A. Lady May.

Q. And if we can go to page four, please, and scroll down.

Mr. Skalka, under purpose if you could read 3.1 and

3.2?

A. Yes. The total facility amount will be paid into an escrow

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account as agreed between the parties in writing (the escrow

account) as per this agreement. The total facility amount will

be used as security for the court in relation to the yacht.

The period the borrower retain the total facility amount in the

escrow account will be the time period from the date of this

agreement to when the yacht is returned to the USA. The

borrower will make all reasonable efforts for the prompt return

of the yacht.

Q. And focusing on 2.1, what was the amount, what was the

facility amount?

A. $37 million.

Q. If we could go to page five, please, focusing you on 4.3.

Could you read 4.3?

A. The total facility amount shall be secured against the

yacht and all other assets of the company directly and

indirectly and shall take priority against all other liability

or debts claim against the borrower.

Q. At a high level, what does it mean for the loan to be

secured against the yacht?

A. This indicates that there was going to be a lien against

the yacht, that's the security that I believe the lender was

looking for.

Q. If we can go to page 13.

Mr. Skalka, who signed for what you called HK USA I

believe?

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A. Mei Guo.

Q. And what is her position listed as?

A. She's listed as the sole member of that LLC.

Q. And who signed for Himalaya International Financial Group?

A. I do not recognize the signature.

Q. Is there a title listed for that person?

A. No.

Q. Is there a name listed for that person?

A. No.

Q. What does it say?

A. It just says authorized signature.

Q. If we could show the witness, Ms. Loftus, Government

Exhibit 1316. What's this document, Mr. Skalka?

A. This document is a side letter to the loan agreement that

we just looked at, the loan agreement dated April 19, 2022

between HK USA and Himalaya International Financial Group.

MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit

1316.

MR. KAMARAJU: Can I have one moment real quick, your

Honor?

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. KAMARAJU: No objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Government's Exhibit 1316 received in evidence)

BY MR. FERGENSON:

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Q. Thank you.

Mr. Skalka, you said side letter, very high level,

what's a side letter to an agreement?

A. It's an amendment. This is designed to be an amendment to

the loan agreement, so it has some new terms or revised terms.

Q. Focusing you sort of on the upper left, what's the date of

this letter?

A. April 29, 2022.

Q. Is this between the same parties as the loan agreement we

just looked at?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. If we could focus, Ms. Loftus, on 1.2 and 1.3.

Mr. Skalka, I'll ask you to just read 1.3, please,

through the subparagraph?

A. In consideration of the sum of one pound sterling, we agree

as follows: A, the loan in the loan agreement will no longer be

deemed to be secured against the yacht.

B, the borrower will instead provide a personal

guarantee (a signed copy of which has been received)

C, the terms --

Q. That's actually okay.

Mr. Skalka, in 1.3 where it says in consideration of,

what's your understanding of what that means in this context?

A. There were some considerations for the change in the terms

of the loan agreement so that it would no longer be secured,

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but there'd be a personal guarantee.

Q. In laymen's terms, what consideration?

A. Some value, some value in this case. It was only one pound

sterling, but laymen's terms it is some value.

Q. And, Ms. Loftus, if we could show what's marked --

actually, if we could scroll down quickly to page two. If we

could zoom on the signatures. Is there a signature for HK USA?

A. Yes.

Q. Is there a name listed?

A. No.

Q. What's the position listed?

A. Director.

Q. What was the position listed on the loan?

A. Sole member.

Q. And then for Himalaya International Financial Group, who

signed there?

A. I don't recognize the signature.

Q. Is there a name listed?

A. There is a name. There's a signature. There's no name

listed.

Q. Let's show what's marked as Government Exhibit 1315 just

for the witness, please.

What's this document, Mr. Skalka?

A. This is a copy of a guarantee agreement.

MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit

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1315.

MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Government's Exhibit 1315 received in evidence)

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. Mr. Skalka, who is this guarantee agreement between?

A. It is between Mei Guo and the Himalaya International

Financial Group, LTD.

Q. And the document we looked at earlier referenced a personal

guarantee, at a high level what is this agreement about?

A. This is a personal guarantee from Mei Guo indicating that

she's personally guaranteeing the obligation between HK

International Funds Investments USA, as I refer to as HK USA,

and Himalaya International Financial Group.

Q. If we can scroll down, Ms. Loftus, to the signature page.

Who signed it?

A. Mei Guo.

Q. How does this kind of agreement compare to the one that PAX

had alleged Mr. Kwok had given?

MR. KAMARAJU: Objection to form.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. If we could go now, Ms. Loftus, to government exhibit --

show the witness only please, what's marked as Government

Exhibit 1303.

What's this document, Mr. Skalka.

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A. This is a draft loan agreement between Hong Kong

International Fund Limited and ACA Capital Group Limited.

Q. Was this document produced to the trustee in discovery?

A. Yes.

Q. Who was it produced by?

A. Counsel for HK USA.

Q. That's the registered title holder of the Lady May?

A. Yes.

MR. FERGENSON: Government offers Government Exhibit

1303.

MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Government's Exhibit 1303 received in evidence)

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. If we can publish, please.

Mr. Skalka, who is the draft loan agreement between?

A. Hong Kong International Fund Limited and ACA Capital Group

Limited.

Q. If we could scroll down now.

Mr. Skalka, do you know why the lender was changed

from ACA Capital Group to Himalaya entity?

A. I do not.

Q. If we can keep scrolling down and we can just go all the

way down to page 15, Ms. Loftus.

Mr. Skalka, could you read the first signature line,

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the entity for the first signature line?

A. Hong Kong International Fund Limited.

Q. And could you read the second entity?

A. Fortress Spark Limited.

Q. Do you know what Fortress Spark Limited is?

A. I do not.

Q. To your knowledge has Fortress Spark Limited otherwise come

up in Mr. Kwok's bankruptcy?

A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. We could take that down, Ms. Loftus.

Mr. Skalka, was $37 million ultimately put into

escrow?

A. Yes.

Q. And who received those funds first?

A. The loan proceeds went to HK USA's counsel in the

bankruptcy case.

Q. And what was the name of their counsel?

A. The law firm of Zeisler & Zeisler.

Q. Who, if anyone, else did Zeisler & Zeisler come to

represent in the bankruptcy?

A. They also represented Mei Guo, and subsequently they've

also become counsel for Mr. Kwok.

Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could show the witness -- these are four

docs. These are government exhibits -- Mr. Skalka before we do

that -- I'll tell you, Ms. Loftus, 1419. 1420, 1421 and 1422.

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While we're waiting, Mr. Skalka, what, if anything, happened in

the PAX case after the $37 million was put in escrow with

respect to the yacht?

A. The PAX case was stayed as a result of the bankruptcy

filings, so there was no further action being taken in the PAX

case while the bankruptcy case was pending.

Q. Mr. Skalka, are you able to see what these documents are at

a high level?

A. Yes, I could see them.

Q. Are these filings by Mr. Kwok and his attorney in the

bankruptcy regarding his assets?

A. Yes, his assets and his liabilities.

MR. FERGENSON: The government offers government

Exhibit 1419 through 1422.

MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.

THE COURT: They're admitted.

(Government's Exhibits 1419, 1420, 1421 and 1422

received in evidence)

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could zoom first on 1421.

Mr. Skalka, this says declaration about an

individual's debtor schedule. Could you read in the bottom

left there's a signature, could you read the text above the

signature?

A. Under penalty of perjury I declare that I have read the

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summary and schedules filed with this declaration and that they

are true and accurate.

Q. And who signed this?

A. Mr. Kwok.

Q. And what was the date?

A. March 9, 2022.

Q. Now, Ms. Loftus, let's just go to, if we could, just pull

up Government Exhibit 1420. If we could zoom, Ms. Loftus, on

the middle portion on official form 106.

Mr. Skalka, at a high level, what kind of filing is

this?

A. These are referred to as bankruptcy schedules that need to

be filed by any debtor in any bankruptcy case filed in the

United States. These are government forms, and this particular

document I'm looking at is a summary of the assets and

liabilities that had been set forth by the debtor on the

various schedules.

Q. What was the total value in real estate assets Mr. Kwok

claim?

A. Zero.

Q. What was the total value in personal property Mr. Kwok

claim?

A. $3850.

Q. And under part two, how much in liabilities did Mr. Kwok

claim?

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A. $373,803,498.09.

Q. How much income did Mr. Kwok claim to have?

A. Zero.

Q. What about expenses?

A. Zero.

Q. If we could go to page three of this, Ms. Loftus. If we

could, again, you can blow up about the same portion as we did

last time.

Mr. Skalka, what did Mr. Kwok say in response whether

he had any legal or equitable interest in real estate?

A. He said none. He didn't have any.

Q. What did Mr. Kwok say about interest in any vehicles?

A. He said no, he didn't have any.

Q. What about interest in any watercraft?

A. He said no, he didn't have any.

Q. What about any legal or equitable interest in any household

goods and furnishings?

A. He indicated no, he didn't have any interest.

Q. What about electronics?

A. He did indicate yes that he had an interest in electronics.

Q. And if we could scroll down, Ms. Loftus.

What did he list for electronics?

A. An iPhone.

Q. And what was the value of that?

A. Unknown.

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Q. If we could scroll down a little bit more.

Now, in addition to the iPhone, what other assets did

Mr. Kwok declare in this form?

A. He indicated that he had some clothing. He had a family

dog.

Q. What kind of dog?

A. A Pomeranian.

Q. And what were the value of these assets?

A. Unknown.

Q. If we could go to page five, please. What did he list as

assets on this page?

A. He listed that he had some tax refund checks to him from

the state of New York and some Covid relief check that had not

been negotiated.

Q. Ms. Loftus, if we can now go to Government Exhibit 1419.

Maybe we can zoom in on the top half.

Mr. Skalka, at a high level what was this document?

A. These were notes and statements filed by the debtor by the

debtor counsel describing some limitations as to the disclosure

set forth in the debtor schedule that we just looked at and

some other responses to questions related to what's called the

statement of financial affairs which we haven't seen, but

that's another form that needs to be filled out by a debtor in

any bankruptcy case.

Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could zoom out, and if we could go down

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to page four.

Mr. Skalka, could you please read question one?

A. Do you own or have any illegal or equitable interest in any

residence, building, land or similar property.

Q. Can you read the first entry -- Mr. Skalka, just for

reference, when we looked at the earlier document, how did

Mr. Kwok answer that question on that document?

A. On the schedules in the other document he said he had no

interest in real estate.

Q. And could you read bullet number one under that?

A. The debtor has use and occupancy of real estate located at

373 Taconic Road, Greenwich, Connecticut ("residence"). The

debtor has no legal title to the residence and no court has

made any determination that the debtor has any other interest

equitable or otherwise in it. All related costs and expenses

associated with the residence are paid directly by family and

family controlled enterprises. The residence is owned by

Greenwich Land, LLC ("Greenwich Land") the sole member of

Greenwich Land is the debtor's spouse.

Q. And if we could scroll down to number two. I'll ask you if

you could just read -- why don't you just read the first two

sentence?

A. The debtor also has access to an apartment located at the

Sherry-Netherland hotel, 781 5th Avenue New York, New York

10022 (the apartment). The cooperative shares in the apartment

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are held by Jennifer Holdings, LLC (the USS PV) the membership

interest.

Q. Mr. Skalka, could you just skipping down a couple of

sentences read the sentence that starts the debtor's son?

A. The debtor's son owns the equity of the apartment owner.

On or about the trust date, the apartment owner funded the USS

PV with the purchase price for the apartment. These funds came

from entities owned or controlled by the debtor's son and not

from the debtor.

Q. And Ms. Loftus if we can zoom out, and if you can just

scroll slightly to page four.

Now, Mr. Skalka, are any other properties discussed

under that question?

A. No.

Q. By the way, did Mr. Kwok claim to have an interest in

either of these properties that are discussed?

A. No.

Q. Now, do these discuss at all a property in Mahwah, New

Jersey?

A. They do not.

Q. Let's go to page six, Ms. Loftus, please. If we could zoom

on paragraph J, please. Could you read question 17?

A. Question 17, deposits of money.

Q. And what do these notes say in response to that?

A. These notes make reference to a restraining order entered

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in Hong Kong in 2018.

Q. If you could read starting at the second sentence just the

restraint order?

A. The restraint order stated that it would remain in force up

to and including April 30, 2019, with the understanding that it

would remain in effect pursuant to a further order of the high

court entered on May 3, 2019. The effective the restraint

order was to freeze HK $3.7 million, Hong Kong dollars of funds

alleged to belong to the debtor, as much as billions more of

funds and property, including real estate in Hong Kong of

individuals and entities purportedly subject to the debtor's

effective control (according to the restraint order) were also

frozen and/or seized. Due to the freezing/seizure of these

assets, the debtor does not include them in his estate.

Q. And if we could go to page seven, please. If we could zoom

on the very top paragraph there. If you could read the first

sentence there, please?

A. In September and October 2017, the Chinese government

raided the office of Shiny Times and seized all accounting

corporate records and many personal financial records.

Q. Can you remind us, Mr. Skalka, what, if any, relevance did

Shiny Times have to the PAX case?

A. Shiny Time Holdings was their full name was the borrowing

entity in the loan from PAX, and the entity that Mr. Kwok

personally guaranteed the obligation.

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Q. If we could go to page eight, please, and if we could zoom

on question 26 just at the top please.

Question 26, an underline says, patent, copyrights,

trademarks, trade secrets and other intellectual property.

Could you please read Mr. Kwok's note to that answer?

A. The debtor has possible unregistered copyrights and other

intellectual property interest in music and videos posted to

various digital and media platforms, such as YouTube, GTV,

Twitter and Gettr. The debtor ascribes no value to his social

media assets and has made no attempts to monetize his social

media presence.

Q. What's your understanding of ascribes no value to these

assets?

A. My understanding was that thought that there was no value

to these assets.

Q. Ms. Loftus, we can take it down. If we could Ms. Loftus

show the witness what's marked as Government Exhibit 1401-A.

While that comes up, Mr. Skalka, what's a meeting of

creditors in a bankruptcy?

A. In every Chapter 11 bankruptcy case, the court soon after

the filing of the case sets up a creditors meeting. It's under

Section 341 of the bankruptcy code, in which all creditors in

the case are invited to attend and could ask questions; but the

meeting itself is run by the Office of the United States

Trustee and the debtor is required to appear at the meeting and

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answer questions under oath.

Q. Did those occur in Mr. Kwok's bankruptcy?

A. Yes.

Q. Mr. Skalka, what is Government Exhibit 1401-A?

A. This is a portion of the transcript of the creditors

meetings held in Mr. Kwok's bankruptcy case on March 21, 2022.

MR. FERGENSON: The government offers Government

Exhibit 1401-A.

MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.

THE COURT: It is admitted.

(Government's Exhibit 1401-A received in evidence)

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. Now, Mr. Skalka, in this excerpt who is being questioned?

A. Mr. Kwok is being questioned.

Q. And so where it says Q and A, what does Q and A stand for?

A. Question for Q and A is answer.

Q. Now, if we could, if I could ask, I'll read the question

and if you want to read the answers of Mr. Kwok:

"Does Golden Spring own that building that's located

at that address?

"A. I don't know.

"Q. Have you ever been to that address?

"A. Yes.

"Q. What type of building is it? What's located there?

"A. It was a building.

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"Q. Is the building a residential building or commercial

building?

"A. Business building.

Q. And then there's some back and forth with Claiborne and the

interpreter. Just for reference, Mr. Skalka, who is

Ms. Claiborne?

A. She's an attorney with the U.S. Trustee's Office in

Connecticut.

Q. Is that the office you said runs these meetings?

A. In Connecticut, yes.

Q. I'll continue here:

Does anyone live at that address?

"A. I don't know.

"Q. What type of business does Golden Spring do?

"A. It's a big family business. My son works, but I don't

know specifically what categories of business it has.

"Q. Mr. Kwok, when you use the term --

"A. It is a family office own by my son. He has other

businesses, but I don't know.

"Q. Mr. Kwok, when you use the term family business or family

office, what do you mean by those terms?

"A. It's mainly for the whole family, all the family members.

When there is something we (indiscernible) and help each other.

"Q. Mr. Kwok, can you explain in more detail?

"A. I don't know how to explain.

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"Q. Does Golden Spring have any employees?

"A. Yes.

"Q. How many?

"A. I don't know.

"Q. Does Golden Spring own any real estate?

"A. I don't know.

"Q. Does Golden Spring own any other business?

"A. I don't know.

"Q. Does Golden Spring have any bank accounts?

"A. I don't know.

"Q. Mr. Kwok, you previously said in documents filed with the

bankruptcy court that Golden Spring pays for your personal

living expenses. Can you please explain how they do that?

"A. I don't know what you mean by they pay me. In what

regard?

"Q. Mr. Kwok, you previously told the court in your bankruptcy

documents that Golden Spring pays for your clothing, your food

and your housing. My question is, how they do that? Do they

give you money? Do they pay other people directly? How does

it work?

"A. Whenever I need any expenses for my basic living, I talk

to my son and he will tell his office to give it to me.

"Q. Who are the owners of Golden Spring? And then there's

back and forth and we can scroll down skip over that.

If you could, Mr. Skalka, you can start after it says

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the interpreter, I'll repeat the interpretation, starting with

when I need. It's the third line.

"A. When I need expenses for my basic living, I tell my son.

My son will tell the office to take --

"Q. Mr. Kwok, who are the owners of Golden Spring?

"A. My son.

"Q. Are there any other owners of Golden Spring other than

your son?

"A. No.

"Q. Mr. Kwok, have you ever owned an interest in Golden

Spring?

"A. No.

"Q. Who are the officers and directors of Golden Spring?

And we could scroll down.

I'll read again, it says by Ms. claiborne. Mr. Kwok,

as of today, who are the officers of Golden Spring?

"A. (Indiscernible.)

"Q. I'm going to repeat that name so everyone understands what

I thought I heard. What I heard was Yanping also known as

Yvonne Wang; is that accurate?

"A. Yes.

"Q. Is Yvonne Wang the only officer of Golden Spring?

"A. I don't know.

"Q. As of today, who are the directors of Golden Spring?

"A. I don't know.

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"Q. Mr. Kwok, have you ever been a direct of Golden Spring?

"A. I don't remember.

"Q. Mr. Kwok, who is Max Krasner?

"A. I don't know. I don't know.

"Q. Mr. Kwok, who is Max Krasner? And it says Mr. Kwok can

you please answer.

For reference, Mr. Skalka, who is Mr. Baldiga?

A. He was Mr. Kwok's bankruptcy counsel at the time.

Q. If we could just scroll down. So you can continue at line

22, Mr. Skalka.

"A. He has to double check with you because I can not read and

cannot remember English names well, so just the names. You

said Max. If it's the name Max, only I know Max. But if you

add another name to it, I'm not sure. I don't know.

"Q. Do you know a Max with respect to Golden Spring?

"A. Yes, I know.

"Q. And what is Max's role with Golden Spring?

"A. I don't know.

"Q. Well, how do you know Max?

"A. I don't remember.

"Q. Do you know more than one person by the name of Max?

"A. For me English name is very complicated. Like I can't

remember the last name of my lawyer. If you add something else

to Max, I don't know.

"Q. Mr. Kwok, the name Max Krasner is listed as a person to

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whom the mail for Golden Spring is directed to. Do you know

why that is?

"A. I only remember there is a Max in Golden Spring. I only

know this one thing.

"Q. And what is Max's job at Golden Spring?

"A. I'm not sure what role I (indiscernible) know he is in

charge of finance, but I'm not sure.

"Q. What does he do for Golden Spring with respect to

finances?

"A. I was not involved in the management so I don't know.

"Q. If Golden Spring gives you money, does it come through Max

Krasner's efforts? Does he help make that happen?

"A. I don't know, he didn't give me money in person.

"Q. Mr. Kwok, when you get money from Golden Spring, how do

you get money? Does it come in the form of cash or something

else?

"A. From my son and (indiscernible.)

Q. That gets repeated by the interpreter and the question is.

My question was, how do you get money from your son? Does it

come in the form of cash or some other form?

"A. I don't understand what you mean by how, the word how. I

never get money directly from them.

"Q. If you don't get money directly from your son, how do you

get the money from your son? Where does it go?

"A. I don't use cash and I don't use credit cards. My son and

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(indiscernible). Wan, they just pay my expenses for me. It's

impossible for me to get any cash from them. Also, I don't

have bank account, any bank accounts.

"Q. Mr. Kwok, do you have access to a credit card that was

taken out by Golden Spring? And then Mr. Baldiga.

Asked again, Mr. Kwok, do you have access to a credit

card or a debit card provided to you by or through Golden

Spring?

"A. No.

"Q. Mr. Kwok, are you obligated to pay Golden Spring back for

the money that it pays on your behalf for your living expenses?

A. No, no need.

MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, if we could show the

witness what's marked as Government Exhibit 1401-B. Your

Honor, at this time the government offers other excerpts. They

are 1404-A and 1404-B.

MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.

THE COURT: They are admitted.

(Government's Exhibits 1401-B, 1404-A, 1404-B received

in evidence)

BY MR. FERGENSON:

Q. I'll continue. Are these answers still from Mr. Kwok?

A. Yes.

Q. And this is the same meeting of creditors, the same one we

were looking at, another excerpt?

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A. Yes.

Q. I'll continue with the questions.

What is your relationship to Golden Spring?

"A. I don't understand what you mean by your question. I

don't know how to answer your question.

"Q. Do you know what the word "relationship" means?

"A. Relationship means love of things in China. It could be

between husband and wife. It could be between government

relationship, a financial relationship, money, and it could be

a lot of things.

MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus, can you please publish.

"A. So I don't know which one you mean. Is it a man/woman

relationship or a money relationship or what?

"Q. Any relationship. What is it? What is your -- it says

(indiscernible.)

And then question comes again, any relationship, what

is yours to Golden Spring?

"A. Now the relationship is between is he lends me money. I

owe money to him. It helps me.

"Q. Why does he do this?

"A. Because I was once a member of the Guo family.

"Q. Does Golden Spring pay the expenses of any other member of

the Guo family?

"A. Yes.

Q. Which other members of the Guo family?

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"A. I don't know.

"Q. A year ago I asked you why does Golden Spring pay

Mr. Podhaskie, spelled, for services rendered to you in your

individual capacity. I'm asking that again now.

Why does Golden Spring pay Mr. Podhaskie for services

rendered to you in your individual capacity? And if we could

scroll down. And then it says, can you start at line 12 where

it says Mr. Kwok, how did he answer that?

"A. I don't know.

"Q. Have you ever asked anyone why they pay for him to advise

you?

"A. I don't remember.

"Q. I asked you last year why did Golden Spring New York pay

that judgment on your behalf, and I was referring to the one my

client Mr. Cheng held against you.

I'm asking you again, why did Golden Spring New York

pay that judgment on your behalf?

"A. It was money lended.

"Q. Why did Golden Spring loan you that money?

"A. I don't have anything so I borrowed from them.

"Q. Where did Golden Spring get the money from?

"A. I don't know.

"Q. Where does Golden Spring get any money from?

"A. I don't know.

"Q. Your son owns Golden Spring, correct?

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"A. Yes.

"Q. Does your son owe you any money?

"A. No.

"Q. How does your son get the money that funds Golden Spring?

"A. I don't know.

"Q. Did you ever provide your son with any seed capital?

"A. No.

"Q. Have you ever invested in any of your son's businesses?

"A. No.

"Q. When did Connecticut become your residence?

"A. End of February or early March of 2020.

"Q. And if we could scroll down, Ms. Loftus, if we could now

go to 1404-A. is this another excerpt from a meeting of

creditors?

A. Yes.

Q. What was the date of this meeting?

A. April 6, 2022.

Q. And the answers here, are they from Mr. Kwok?

A. Yes.

Q. So I will read the question again.

Did you meet with anyone else beside your attorney to

prepare for today's meeting while you were at the office?

"A. I don't know what you mean the other people.

"Q. Well, did you meet with anyone who worked for Golden

Spring?

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"A. Yes, I meet Yvonne Wang.

"Q. And this was yesterday?

"A. Yes, I met her yesterday.

"Q. Did you ask some questions of her yesterday?

"A. No.

"Q. And tell me about your conversation with Ms. Wang?

"A. What do you mean?

"Q. Well, I like to know what you talk about with her?

"A. I ask her to arrange the food to eat and the coffee.

"Q. Is that all?

"A. And also we talked about how to abolish communist party.

"Q. I want to make sure I get this right. I think you said --

and then Mr. Baldiga. If you can read line six again.

"A. We talk about how to abolish communist party.

"Q. Ms. Wang is an officer of Golden Spring, correct?

"A. Yes.

"Q. And you directed her to bring coffee, right?

"A. No, I didn't direct her. I'm just hoping her to bring

some coffee.

"Q. You were hoping or helping?

"A. Help.

"Q. You were helping. Because my question to you was what you

talked about with Ms. Wang, and I thought you said you asked

her to bring some coffee or maybe even told her to bring some

coffee?

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"A. No, your attorney office, you attorney office making and

imagining things again.

"Q. What did you discuss with Ms. Wang yesterday?

"A. Do you want me to talk about it in detail? I can talk

about this for hours.

"Q. Not if the detail concerns how to overthrow the Chinese

communist party, so I'll be more precise.

"A. So you don't want us to abolish Chinese communist party?

Our job is to abolish Chinese communist party.

Q. And Mr. Baldiga says just answer the question. And the

witness.

"A. You don't have a question. You're just directing

something.

Q. We can just scroll down.

Did you discuss with Yvette yesterday anything related

to preparing for the meeting today?

"A. Yes.

"Q. What did you discuss?

"A. I ask her to bring those documents here.

"Q. Anything else?

"A. I don't remember.

"Q. When was Lamp Capital created?

"A. I don't know.

"Q. Why was Lamp Capital created?

"A. I don't know.

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"Q. Who created Lamp Capital?

"A. My son.

"Q. How do you know that?

"A. Because I borrow money from my son to pay attorney fee.

"Q. The question is how do you know that your son created Lamp

Capital?

"A. Because my son said it.

"Q. He told you himself?

"A. Yes.

"Q. Did he ask for any advice from you about whether to create

Lamp Capital?

"A. No.

"Q. Did he ask you your opinion on whether he should create

Lamp Capital?

"A. No.

"Q. Did he tell you why he was creating Lamp Capital?

"A. No.

"Q. Thank you. Do you have an understanding of what business

Lamp Capital is engaged in, if any?

A. No.

MR. FERGENSON: Ms. Loftus let,s now publish 1404-B.

Q. Is this excerpt from this same creditors meeting?

A. Yes.

Q. If we could scroll down. And again the answers in this

excerpt are coming from Mr. Kwok?

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A. Yes.

Q. Among that documents that you filed were some specific

notes and one of those notes discusses the residence of Taconic

road or on Taconic Road, and then there's a reference to

Mr. Harbach. Do you recall who he?

A. He's an attorney for at least one creditor, perhaps more.

Q. If we can scroll down. I'll start at line 21.

First question, is it true that all expenses related

to the Taconic Road house are paid directly by family and

family controlled enterprises?

"A. Yes.

"Q. Which family members?

"A. My wife, sometime by my son.

"Q. Which family controlled enterprises?

"A. Which country, my wife.

"Q. Your wife's not an enterprise. I'm trying to ask which

family controlled enterprises pay the expenses for the Taconic

house?

"A. Greenwich, LLC.

"Q. Incidentally how do you know that your wife or sometimes

your son pay these expenses?

"A. Because I live there.

"Q. Did you observe them pay the expenses?

"A. Yes.

"Q. Is that ever at your request?

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"A. I don't remember I request anything.

"Q. Does Greenwich Land LLC -- yes, Greenwich Land LLC, own

any other real estate beside 373 Taconic Road?

A. I don't know.

THE COURT: We're going to stop there. Members of the

jury, you have graciously agreed to stay until 5 p.m. tomorrow.

That's Tuesday. On Wednesday and Thursday, we're going to go

to 2:45, and on Friday you have the day off. The following

week Monday, the first of July, you have off. Tuesday and

Wednesday, you come in. Then Thursday and Friday, the 4th and

the 5th, you have off. And so what I'm asking you to please

think about this evening, you don't have to tell me now. Could

you stay for a full day on Tuesday and Wednesday, July 2nd and

3rd. You can think about it and tell me tomorrow morning. In

the meantime, don't discuss the case amongst yourselves or with

anyone else. Don't permit anyone to discuss the case in your

presence. Don't read, watch or listen to anything from any

source that touches upon the subject matter of this case. Have

a good evening.

THE LAW CLERK: Jury exiting.

(Jury not present)

THE COURT: Sir, you may step out of the courtroom.

Don't discuss your testimony.

(Witness temporarily excused)

THE COURT: Please be seated. Is there anything

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before we reconvene in the morning?

MR. KAMARAJU: Not from the defense, your Honor.

MR. FERGENSON: No, your Honor. Just for context for

the Court, I have maybe I hope around 15 minutes left. This is

the last excerpt. We're almost there, and then I think pretty

short questioning after that.

THE COURT: Great. All right. Have a good evening.

(Adjourned to June 25, 2024 at 9 a.m.)

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INDEX OF EXAMINATION

Examination of: Page

AMY BUCK FAUNDEZ

3873Direct By Mr. Fergenson . . . . . . . . . . .

3935Cross By Ms. Shroff . . . . . . . . . . . . .

4000Redirect By Mr. Fergenson . . . . . . . . . .

4003Recross By Ms. Shroff . . . . . . . . . . . .

DOUGLAS SKALKA

4006Direct By Mr. Fergenson . . . . . . . . . . .

GOVERNMENT EXHIBITS

Exhibit No. Received

3883 BUCK 34, BUCK 44, BUCK 48, BUCK 49, . . . . .

BUCK 50, BUCK 60, BUCK 63,

BUCK 69, BUCK 77, BUCK 80

3883 BUCK 115, BUCK 117, BUCK 127, BUCK 131, . . .

BUCK 133, BUCK 138, BUCK 141,

BUCK 168, BUCK 174, BUCK 194

3884 BUCK 218, BUCK 221, BUCK 227, BUCK 232, . . .

BUCK 235, BUCK 236, BUCK 241,

BUCK 243

3884 BUCK 375, BUCK 391, BUCK 428, BUCK 522, . . .

BUCK 524, BUCK 532

3884 BUCK 709, BUCK 822, BUCK 851, BUCK . . . . .

1204, BUCK 1260, BUCK 1261,

and BUCK 1274-BUCK 1291, and

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BUCK 1293-BUCK 1296

4006 C-146, C146-T . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

4039 1419, 1420, 1421 and 1422 . . . . . . . . .

4053 1401-B, 1404-A, 1404-B . . . . . . . . . . .

BUCK 1292 3885 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

1303 4037 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

1314 4031 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

1315 4036 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

1316 4033 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

1401-A 4047 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

1407 4028 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

1413 4023 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

1416 4019 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

DEFENDANT EXHIBITS

Exhibit No. Received

60613 3971 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

60614 3972 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

60618 3973 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

60620 3974 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

60621 3975 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

60623 3975 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

60624 3978 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

60625 3977 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

60626 3979 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Translated Text(简体中文翻译)

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 1 / 161页 
美国纽约南区法院 
-------------------------------------------------------x 
美国政府
控方    23 Cr. 118 (AT) 
郭文贵 
                        辩方
-------------------------------------------------------x 
                   
                          纽约州纽约市， 
  2024年 6月 24日 
                         上午 9:00  
庭前:
尊敬的阿娜丽莎-托雷斯法官大人
地区法官
-陪审团-
出庭律师:
 
 
 
 达米安-威廉姆斯 
        纽约南区美国联邦检察官 
代表：迈卡·F·费根森 
        瑞安·B·芬克 
        贾斯廷·霍顿 
        朱莉安娜·N·莫里 
        助理美国检察官 
 
萨布丽娜·P·施洛夫 
        被告律师 
PRYOR CASHMAN LLP 
        被告律师 
代表：西德哈达·卡马拉珠 
        马修·巴尔坎 
 ALSTON & BIRD LLP 
        被告律师 
代表：E·斯科特·舒里克 
  
出席人员： 
伊莎贝尔·洛夫特斯，法律助理，美国检察官办公室 
鲁本·蒙蒂利亚，辩方律师助理 
黄拓，普通话翻译 
石峰，普通话翻译 
唐玉马克，普通话翻译

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 2 / 161页 
 
（审判恢复；陪审团不在场） 
法官说: 早上好。 
所有律师: 早上好，法官大人。 
法官说: 请作出出庭声明。 
芬克律师说： 早上好，法官大人。 瑞安·芬克和贾斯汀·霍顿代表政府出庭。我们有伊莎
贝尔·洛夫特斯, 我们办公室的法律助理专家, 朱莉安娜·莫里和米卡·费尔根森将会稍后加入。 
施洛夫律师说： 早上好，法官大人。我方萨布丽娜·施洛夫，西德哈达·卡马拉珠，斯科
特·舒里克和马修·巴尔坎代表郭先生。萨拉查先生也在辩护律师席上。 
法官说: 请坐。在我们 9:30 开始之前还有什么要说的吗？ 
施洛夫律师说： 辩护方没有，法官大人。 
芬克律师说： 政府方面也没有太多问题。我只是想更新一下关于安排的情况，如果法庭
希望的话。 
法官说： 好的。 
芬克律师说： 所以政府的话，如果我们今天能拿到某个文件且明天是完整的一天的话，
我们相信希望明天就可以完成。如果明天不是完整的一天，我不确定。我们今天计划有两个中等
长度的证人和两个短证人。我不确定对中等长度证人的交叉询问会如何。如果与一些其他交叉询
问一致，我们今天甚至可能无法完成对这些证人的询问。 
我们在周末收到了辩方的证人名单，我们感谢他们提供的名单。名单上有 11 个证人，可能有 12
个。我们可能会对一个证人达成协议。辩方估计他们可以在 7 月 3 日之前完成这 12 个证人——
如果由协议的话，则是 11 个证人。这对政府来说似乎不现实，特别是如果这些天是半天的话。
很多证人——其中有三个是专家，这将需要一些时间。有许多证人——我意思是，有些证人的证
词我们实际上不知道，因为没有这些证人的 26.2材料。我们可以猜测，我认为他们基本上会把郭
的生平故事和其他问题放进去。我不知道。但无论如何，当我们做上午 9:30 到下午 2:45的日子
时，我们平均每天有两个证人；有些天我们做了三个，有些天我们做了一个。在这种每天两个证
人的情况下，我们很容易就到了七月底了，这还假设被告不作证。而如果被告作证——当然，这

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 3 / 161页 
是他的权利，如果他选择这样做——我想这样的证词将会持续几天。他将不得不解释，我想，所
有的视频，录音，所有的声明，企业，投资。这将需要很多时间，交叉询问也会如此。 
所以政府看待这个问题的方式是，我们肯定会遵从法庭在安排方面认为最合适的方式。但如果目
标是在 7 月 12 日之前完成整个审判，对政府来说，继续只坐到下午 2:45是不现实的。也许是每
天延长一点时间，或者在某些日子延长一点时间，但政府确实认为我们需要延长每天的时间，以
确保我们完成所有的事情。至少，我们会要求法官让陪审团知道，在 7 月 8日那一周，也就是最
后一周，将会是全天，因为假设事情按辩方预期进行，政府当然也希望如此，政府认为那一周将
是陪审团的陈述和审议，我想法庭——也许我错了——我想法庭会希望在这些活动期间坐到下午
5点。 
所以，法官大人，回到原点，鉴于我们了解的辩方案件情况，我们认为法庭应该考虑延长每天的
时间，以确保我们在 7 月 12 日之前完成审判，这是法庭对陪审团的预测，也是各方假设的情
况。 
卡马拉珠律师说:  谢谢，法官大人。早上好。 
我的建议是——我听到芬克律师说政府希望与法庭和各方讨论可能延长某些日子的想法，你知
道，也许有些稍微延长一点，也许有些延长更多一点。我认为我们与政府进行讨论可能是有益
的，因为我们不反对对时间表进行一些修改，以确保我们及时完成审判。我不知道辩方是否认为
每天坐满 9点到 5 点是必要的。我们的证人，虽然有 11 个，但其中一些——特别是考虑到法官
最近的裁决——有些可能不到 30分钟。我们的专家，我很难想象他们的直接证词超过 60 到 90
分钟。所以我认为我们会按计划进行，但我认为我们建议与政府进行讨论，看看我们是否能达成
一致，使我们都相信能在适当的时间内完成审判，并向法庭提议，法庭同意后，再向陪审团提
议。这是我的提议。 
芬克律师说： 所以，法官大人，（我们）非常愿意与辩护律师进一步讨论，并尝试达成
协议。我只请求两件事。第一，我认为——我不确定，但——许多辩方证人将需要翻译，这将延
长时间。如果有三个专家，60 到 90分钟，我们假设平均 75 分钟，假设交叉询问半小时；这本
身就是两天。所以如果他们认为他们可以在四天内完成所有 11 个证人的证词，坦率地说，这看
起来不现实。我希望它能很快进行。我真的希望如此。 
第二点，法官大人，我们会要求明天，在法庭和陪审团都方便的情况下，我们会延长到要么我们
完成当天的证人，要么到下午 5点，以较早者为准。如果我们需要某个证人——希望不需要，但
——如果我们需要某个证人作为监管目的，那将必须在星期三。这人星期三早上才有空。无论如

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 4 / 161页 
何，这就是我们的情况。但我非常愿意接受与辩护律师讨论的邀请，并要求法庭考虑明天延长时
间。 
卡马拉珠律师说:  关于交叉询问的观点，法官大人，我们一直在努力使它们更高效。我
们将继续这样做。我只是给法庭举个例子。在星期五，我相信特别探员卢西亚诺在直接证词中作
证 107分钟，我相信施罗夫律师的交叉询问是 26分钟，这大约是特别探员卢西亚诺关于照片，
毛巾和拖鞋，以及合同中的铅漆免责声明作证的时间。所以我们正在努力使我们的交叉询问更高
效。我假设政府也会这样做。 
我们正在查看我们的证人名单。我们正在努力与政府达成某些事情的协议，以进一步缩短这个名
单。但坦率地说，我们的证人并不像政府的证人那么长时间。我们没有芬克律师所谈论的影响平
均时间的三个或四个或五个小时的证人。所以，再次，我提议我们与政府讨论。也许我们可以找
到一种解决方案，避免法官需要解决争议。这是我的提议。 
法官说： 所以我认为我想做的是要求他们在星期二和星期三晚些时候待下去。我不能在
星期四待到很晚。所以我会在今天早上他们出来时问这个问题，如果有任何人绝对不能在星期三
和星期四待到很晚。同时，你们将进行讨论。当然，我希望你们在休息期间进行讨论。但我敦促
你们互相讨论。还有其他事吗？ 
费根森律师说: 是的，法官大人。只是几点试图简化破产证人道格拉斯·斯卡尔卡的审
查。他是康涅狄格州破产受托人的地方律师。在他的直接证词中，我们试图非常紧密地呈现特别
具有证明力、相关性的破产证据，如我们在动议中所述以及法庭允许我们这样做的命令中所述。
我们希望这将是一个高效的展示。而且，法官大人，首先，通过传唤某人与破产相关的证人，并
不意味着交叉询问现在将成为关于单独破产案件的审判中的审判。它应该集中在直接证词中所引
出的内容上。这只是其中一点。希望，根据卡马拉珠律师的观点，辩方现在也在进行集中交叉询
问。 
还有两点要提到，法官大人，仅仅是关于证据争议的。我理解这是争议。第一个涉及我
们可能需要在星期三传唤的监管证人。我们希望在斯卡尔卡的证词中加入的一部分证据涉及破产
受托人会议的记录。在我理解的破产程序中，债务人在破产受托人办公室（DOJ的一个组成部
分）的主持下作证。我不是这方面的专家，但这是我的理解。他们召开这些会议，记录并转录下
来。 
法官说： 这些陈述是宣誓的吗？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 5 / 161页 
费根森律师说: 是的。斯卡尔卡并没有参加这些会议，但我们仍然希望通过斯卡尔卡提供
被告在这些会议上的选定摘录。因为他是我们这个类型证据的破产证人。然而，他并没有亲自出
席这些会议。我们理解辩方将会以真实性为由反对提供这些记录。如芬克律师所述，我们可以从
新港律师事务所传唤一名律师，她在星期二有法庭，不想打乱新港法庭的日程，她可以在星期三
早上来说明，是的，这是一个录音，这是证词，这是转录件。这就是全部。我们不确定为什么需
要这样做。我们希望通过斯卡尔卡提供这些记录是高效的。但最终，这取决于辩方。我所说的
是，作为破产程序中的地方律师，斯卡尔卡收到了这些转录件，他在文件中使用了这些转录件，
并在法庭上引用了这些转录件。但正如我提到的，他并没有亲自出席这些会议。 
第二个问题，法官大人，我不确定我们是否想让辩护律师先解决第一个问题，然后我再提出第二
个问题。 
法官说： 是的。我想听听辩护律师对这些转录件真实性问题的看法。 
卡马拉珠律师说:  是的，法官大人。我们所要求的是政府按照法律要求的方式认证文
件。我们乐于与他们讨论潜在的协议，如我们已经在做的，甚至在这个文件的情况下。但我不认
为让政府通过无法正确认证的证人引入证据要求过分。我们在本次审判期间已经遇到过这个问
题。仅此而已。这位证人，我认为费根森律师本质上承认，并没有亲自了解认证这些文件的能
力，作为辩护律师，我很难看到我可以自动同意政府没有依据的证人引入证据。所以，我认为斯
卡尔卡并不是第一个要传唤的证人，如果他们想继续讨论，我乐意。但很明显，这位证人没有能
力认证这些转录件。 
法官说： 但你的客户当然会知道他说了什么，对吗？换句话说，你可以基于你客户对你
所说的话同意这些是他的陈述。 
卡马拉珠律师说:  嗯，它们是英文的，法官大人，首先—— 
法官说： 当然，它们可以翻译。 
卡马拉珠律师说:  它们可以，法官大人，但我不确定这——让我这样说吧。我的客户可
以告诉我他是否记得，在这次面试期间，关于这些问题给出了这些答案。我不知道他是否能够做
到这一点。但即使他能够做到这一点，我不确定这是否能消除政府认证文件的要求。 
法官说： 这不是消除政府义务的问题，而是你是否同意的问题。当然，这取决于你。你
做出如何最好地代表你客户的决定。如果没有协议，那么必须传唤那位证人。 
第二个问题是什么？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 6 / 161页 
费根森律师说: 第二个问题，法官大人，部分证词涉及从喜马拉雅交易所银行账户转移到
郭美（被告的女儿，声称是游艇“LadyMay”所有者）的破产律师的 3700万美元。导致破产的主要
争议之一与“LadyMay”有关，法官大人，这有 3700万美元的贷款从喜马拉雅交易所实体到郭美，
然后存入托管账户，因为游艇已移出美国管辖范围。这涉及到与此相关的贷款协议草案。所以，
最终签署的贷款协议由双方提交在破产案的档案中。斯卡尔卡将引入该文件。这还涉及一个初步
的贷款协议草案，贷款方不是喜马拉雅交易所实体而是 ACA资本集团，法官大人可能记得，这
是政府指控的在阿布扎比的银行账户的实体，政府指控其基本上利用洗钱资金将欺诈收益循环到
并返回美国。该贷款协议草案由该实体的律师在发现阶段提供给受托人。斯卡尔卡有权访问这些
发现材料，并带有该实体的标记。他将识别这是一个在发现阶段提供的贷款草案。我们将提供
它。我们理解辩护方将反对这个。只是想提出来，以便我们现在处理，而不是在陪审团时间内在
旁听席讨论。 
法官说： 所以你的证人只是说明这是他收到的文件。他与该文件没有任何个人联系。 
费根森律师说: 是的，法官大人。这是最终版本的贷款协议，由双方提交在破产案档案
中。这个只是提供给受托人的初步版本。 
法官说： 所以你是说最终文件我们有协议？ 
费根森律师说: 不，法官大人。 
法官说： 不。 
费根森律师说: 我认为他们对最终文件没有异议。 
法官说： 他们对最终文件没有异议。他们反对的是—— 
费根森律师说: 我不确定。那是我的——也许我假设了。我认为是草案。 
卡马拉珠律师说:  法官大人，我可以澄清。我们不会反对最终文件的提交。 
法官说： 但你确实反对草案。 
卡马拉珠律师说:  我们确实反对草案，法官大人。坦率地说，我对费尔根森律师将要讨
论的草案认证的基础感到好奇。 
法官说： 好吧，这是他提出的认证问题。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 7 / 161页 
卡马拉珠律师说:  对。我提出认证问题，因为我认为它不符合法官的先前裁决。例如，
我们在丽兹的证词中处理了这个问题，政府提出了文件，说丽兹可以根据她识别签名并识别这些
文件作为 G|Clubs 通常使用的包来认证。因此，因为她有内部知识，对吧，因为她在那工作。斯
卡尔卡没有这种知识。 
我认为，法官大人，如果我与费尔根森律师讨论，我们也许可以解决这个问题。 
法官说： 我希望如此。所以你们互相讨论，我们将在 9:30 开始。 
卡马拉珠律师说:  谢谢，法官大人。 
费根森律师说: 谢谢，法官大人。 
（休庭） 
法官说： 请将陪审员带入。 
（陪审团入席） 
法官说： 请坐。早上好，陪审员们。 
陪审员们说: 早上好。 
法官说： 欢迎回来。 
由于我和各方无法控制的情况，看来我们需要一些额外的时间；否则，我认为我们无法在 7 月 12
日前完成。因此，我希望你们明天——星期二——和星期三待到 5 点。所以今天我们到 2:45结
束。明天你们会待到 5 点，星期三到 5 点，星期四到 2:45，星期五休息。 
有谁绝对不能做到这一点吗？如果有，请说出你的编号。 
陪审员说: 10号。 
法官说： 你不能做到什么？ 
陪审员说: 我星期三不能。 
法官说： 我听不见你。 
陪审员说: 我星期三不能。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 8 / 161页 
法官说： 但你明天可以。好的。 
陪审员说: 我星期三也不能。 
法官说： 那么我们星期三不会到 5 点。 
法官说： 好了。让我们继续审问证人。 
费根森律师说：是的，法官大人。政府传唤艾米·巴克。 
法官说：好的。 
（证人宣誓） 
法官说：请说出您的姓名并拼写一下。 
证人说：艾米·巴克·福恩德兹。A-M-Y, B-U-C-K, F-A-U-N-D-E-Z。 
法官说：您可以询问。 
费根森律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 
艾米·巴克·福恩德兹， 
作为政府证人， 
已宣誓，作如下证词： 
直接询问 
由费根森先生进行： 
问：早上好，巴克女士。 
答：早上好。 
问：您住在哪里？ 
答：新泽西州。 
问：您的工作是什么？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 9 / 161页 
答：我是房地产律师。 
费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果可以的话，请发布政府物证 Z12，第 19页。 
问：巴克女士，您以前见过这个吗？ 
答：没有见过。 
问：请关注右下角，您能读一下右下角框中的文字吗？ 
答：巴克律师有限公司，律师信托账户。 
问：您的有限公司叫什么名字？ 
答：巴克律师有限公司。 
问：您是否参与了新泽西州马瓦市 675 Ramapo Valley 路的物业购买？ 
答：是的。 
问：您如何称呼该物业？ 
答：克罗克大厦。 
问：您在购买中扮演了什么角色？ 
施洛夫律师说：如果物证不再使用，能否取下。 
费根森律师说：可以，法官大人。我们可以取下。 
法官说：好的。 
问：抱歉，巴克女士。您在克罗克大厦的购买中扮演了什么角色？ 
答：我代表买方进行交易。 
问：购买后，您是否继续与克罗克大厦相关的工作？ 
答：是的。 
问：概括来说，您做了什么？

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答：我向与该物业相关的各种承包商和供应商支付了发票。 
问：现在，巴克女士，克罗克大厦的产权登记在谁的名下？ 
答：Taurus Fund LLC。 
问：根据您与克罗克大厦的工作，您认为实际拥有克罗克大厦的是谁？ 
施洛夫律师说：反对。 
法官说：您可以回答。 
答：一个家庭。 
问：您知道这个家庭的名字吗？ 
答：不知道。 
问：您见过他们吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：好的。现在，巴克女士，让我们回到之前的话题。您通常如何获得房地产业务？ 
答：通过口口相传和介绍。 
问：克罗克大厦是通过介绍的吗？ 
答：是的�� 
问：大约是什么时候介绍给您的？ 
答：2021年 12 月初。 
问：是谁介绍的？ 
答：亚伦·米切尔。 
问：在最初的谈话中，您是与亚伦·米切尔谈话还是与其他人谈话？ 
答：我与他的妻子达拉谈话。

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问：她的姓氏是什么？ 
答：劳尔，L-A-W-A-L-L。我相信她是以这个名字执业的。我不确定。 
问：她的职业是什么？ 
答：她和她的丈夫都是律师。 
问：在最初的谈话中，您与劳尔女士讨论了什么？ 
答：她打电话给我。 
施洛夫律师说：反对，传闻。 
费根森律师说：这是代理人—— 
法官说：您可以描述讨论的性质。 
证人说：好的。 
答：她联系我，介绍了这个特定的事项给我。她告诉我，客户对她来说像家人一样，对他们非常
重要。她还想询问我是否有能力进行加速交易。这是一笔快速的现金交易。 
问：巴克女士，您是否理解她代表这个家庭？ 
施洛夫律师说：反对，暗示性提问。 
法官说：证人可以就主题作证，但不能涉及个人实际所说的话。 
费根森律师说：我们可能需要简短的边栏会议，法官大人。 
法官说：好的。 
（边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场） 
费根森律师说：劳尔女士是亚伦·米切尔的妻子。他们一起经营一家律师事务所，叫劳尔
与米切尔事务所。这是一家代表被告的律师事务所。他们在购买新泽西州这处物业时作为被告的
代理人。 
法官说：代理关系的性质？

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费根森律师说：是律师关系。 
法官说：好的。 
费根森律师说：因此，我认为她可以就被告代理人告诉她的内容作证。 
施洛夫律师说：她不是郭先生的代理人。她是一名执业律师。她是他结婚的对象，但她
是一名独立的律师。我是说，女性结婚后仍可以保持非常独立的职业身份。她没有律师-客户关
系，她也不是代理人。 
法官说：与郭先生有律师-客户关系吗？ 
费根森律师说：是的。她会作证说，他们有一个非常重要的客户，是一个家庭，他们正
在寻找能够帮助他们迅速完成马瓦这处物业交易的人。她完全可以解释她从被告及其家族的律师
那里听到的代理关系。 
法官说：此外，您能不能再解释一下您将要引出什么内容。 
费根森律师说：好的。所以那是初次谈话。在与劳尔女士的初次谈话之后，她接受了介
绍，然后她的主要联系人是亚伦·米切尔，即劳尔女士的丈夫，也是被告的律师，夫妻俩的律师事
务所的合伙人。此后，他是 Taurus Fund和该家庭的代表。她与他以及其他人，如被告的主要保
镖Scott Barnett特，被告的翻译 Gladys周，被告的个人助理之一肖恩·京等人进行沟通，关于物
业的交易和之后的装修费用支付，家具采购等，他们追踪到投资者资金从 Crane公司到汉密尔顿
公司，再到巴克女士的账户。基本上，她的证词就是这些。 
法官说：那就缩短证人时间。 
费根森律师说：这是我希望的，法官大人。 
法官说：好的。我将允许证词。 
施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我只是想确保记录在案，我们对亚伦·米切尔和其他人没有异
议。政府在这里的论点是为了掩盖问题。我反对的是劳尔女士的传闻证据，她不代表郭家，没有
任何律师-客户关系，这是我反对的狭义范围。费根森先生提到了其他所有人，按理他们已经被确
认为代理人或共谋者，但不是这位女士。所以我的反对是狭义的，只针对这位女士与这位律师的
传闻互动。 
法官说：但我理解他所说的是她与郭实体有这些交易。

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施洛夫律师说：没有这样的证据。只有介绍的证据。我们没有——我还没有说完，先
生。 
费根森律师说：如果我可以回应。法院在看我。 
法官说：等一下。 
费根森律师说：您是对的。 
法官说：所以我允许证词。 
施洛夫律师说：她与郭家的关系在哪里？ 
法官说：他将引出这个证词，我依赖他作为法庭官员的陈述。请继续。 
（公开庭审中） 
法官说：您可以继续。 
费根森律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 
由费根森律师说： 
问：巴克女士，在那次谈话中，劳尔女士告诉您关于她的客户什么？ 
施洛夫律师说：反对。假设没有证据的事实。 
问：劳尔女士在那次谈话中告诉您关于她的客户什么，若有？ 
施洛夫律师说：反对。 
问：在那次谈话中告诉您关于她的客户什么，若有？ 
施洛夫律师说：反对。假设没有证据的事实。 
法官说：您将先建立关系。 
费根森律师说：法官大人，这只是她所听到的。 
施洛夫律师说：反对。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
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法官说：这是谁与谁之间的谈话？ 
费根森律师说：巴克女士与劳尔女士之间。 
法官说：好的。您可以继续。您可以回答。 
答：她告诉我，他们是他们的长期客户时间和他们就像家人一样。 
问：她告诉你客户的名字了吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：你明白—— 
法官说：为了陪审团的利益，巴克女士是谁？你是巴克女士。 
证人说：是我。 
法官说：好的。好的。我只是想确保我们知道所有的当事人。继续。 
费根森律师说：明白了，法官大人。谢谢。 
由费根森先生提问： 
问：好的。你和 Lawall 女士讨论过你的费用吗？ 
答：讨论过。 
问：你的费用是多少？ 
答：2000美元。 
问：你接受了 Lawall 女士的推荐吗？ 
答：接受了。 
问：在你和 Lawall 女士交谈之后，谁是你在 Crocker Mansion交易中的主要联系人？ 
答：亚伦·米切尔。 
问：亚伦·米切尔说他的角色是什么？

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答：他是 Taurus Fund的授权代表。 
问：亚伦·米切尔告诉你他代表的家庭名字了吗？ 
答：没有。 
 
 
施洛夫律师说：反对。假设了不存在的事实。 
法官说：你可以回答。 
答：没有。 
问：巴克女士，你可以调整麦克风。你能否把它拉近一点。你可以对准你的嘴巴。这样会更容易
听到你。 
答：好了。这样好吗？ 
问：好很多。谢谢。 
答：抱歉。 
费根森律师说：好的。我可以上前吗，法官大人？ 
法官说：可以。 
问：好的。巴克女士，我刚才递给你什么？ 
答：证人文件夹。 
问：你之前看过这个文件夹里的政府物证吗？ 
答：看过。 
问：它包含你和你的公司提供给政府的工作文件吗—— 
施洛夫律师说：反对，引导性提问。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
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法官说：你可以回答。 
问：——关于你在 Crocker Mansion的工作吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：它包含与 Taurus Fund有关的发票和其他记录吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：可以说 Buck Esq LLC定期维护这样的记录作为其业务的一部分吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：它还包含与 Taurus Fund代理人的通信吗？ 
答：是的。 
费根森律师说：好的。政府提交文件夹中的物证。这些都是 BUCK系列的政府物证。这
些是政府物证 34, 44, 48, 49, 50, 60, 63, 69, 77, 80, 115, 117, 127, 131, 133, 138, 141, 168, 
174, 194, 218, 221, 227, 232, 235, 236, 241, 243, 375, 391, 428, 522, 524, 532, 709, 822, 851, 
1204, 1260, 1261, 以及 1274 到 1291 和 1293 到 1296。政府提交这些物证。 
施洛夫律师说：我们不会大规模同意这些物证的入证。法官大人，我没有认证问题，但
在涉及 传闻 和其他反对意见时，我们仍然坚持这些反对。 
法官说：好的。它们被接纳。 
（政府的 BUCK 34, BUCK 44, BUCK 48, BUCK 49, BUCK 50, BUCK 60, BUCK 63, 
BUCK 69, BUCK 77, BUCK 80 接受为证据） 
（政府的 BUCK 115, BUCK 117, BUCK 127, BUCK 131, BUCK 133, BUCK 138, 
BUCK 141, BUCK 168, BUCK 174, BUCK 194 接受为证据） 
（政府的 BUCK 218, BUCK 221, BUCK 227, BUCK 232, BUCK 235, BUCK 236, 
BUCK 241, BUCK 243 接受为证据） 
（政府的 BUCK 375, BUCK 391, BUCK 428, BUCK 522, BUCK 524, BUCK 532 接受为
证据）

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（政府的 BUCK 709, BUCK 822, BUCK 851, BUCK 1204, BUCK 1260, BUCK 1261, 以
及 BUCK 1274 到 1291 和 BUCK 1293 到 1296 接受为证据） 
费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们也可以给证人展示标记为 GX BUCK 1292 的文
件。仅展示给证人。 
你能否稍微向上滚动一下，让她可以看到。 
由检方费根森律师提问： 
问：巴克女士，这是什么类型的文件？ 
答：这是一个支付记录的 Excel表格。 
问：这个 Excel表格是你创建的吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：这是你代表 Buck Esq LLC为 Taurus Fund 工作的部分内容吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：这也是 Buck Esq LLC的另一份商业记录吗？ 
答：是的。 
费根森律师说：政府提交政府物证 1292。 
施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我可以简短地进行旁听审查吗？ 
法官说：可以。 
旁听审查 
由施洛夫女士提问： 
问：巴克女士，这个文件是什么时候创建的？ 
答：我不记得确切的日期，但从一开始，我就开始记录支付记录时创建了这个 Excel表格。

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问：你在整个代理过程中都维护这个 Excel表格吗？ 
答：是的。 
施洛夫律师说：好的。我没有反对意见，法官大人。 
法官说：接纳为证据。 
（政府物证 BUCK 1292接纳为证据） 
法官说：请重复一下物证的编号。 
费根森律师说：是的，法官大人。这是 1292。是 GX BUCK 1292。 
法官说：好的。继续。 
费根森律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 
好的。我们可以将其关闭，洛夫特斯女士。 
由费根森先生提问： 
问：好的，巴克女士，在你接受 Crocker Mansion的推荐之后，你做了什么来正式确定代理关
系？ 
答：我起草了一封代理协议书。 
费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们是否可以展示已经作为证据的 GX BUCK 1296。 
问：好的，这是什么文件？ 
答：这是我为这笔交易起草的代理协议书。 
费根森律师说：好的，我们是否可以向下滚动。 
问：好的，谁代表 Taurus Fund 签署了这份文件？ 
答：亚伦·米切尔。 
问：他在签名栏写了什么？

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答：他写了“授权代理人”。 
问：什么是授权代理人？ 
答：类似于代理权。他有权代表某个实体签字。 
法官说：什么是代理协议书？ 
证人说：代理协议书是律师使用的，或者我在房地产业务中代表买方或卖方时使用的，
用来正式确定代理关系，并向客户提供价格信息以及在代理过程中如果出现任何变动的情况。 
法官说：你所说的代理关系是什么意思？ 
证人说：他们雇佣我来代表他们。 
法官说：继续。 
费根森律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 
好的。我们可以将其关闭，洛夫特斯女士。 
由费根森先生提问： 
问：好的，巴克女士，在接受代理协议之后，你做了什么？ 
答：我打电话给产权公司。 
问：产权公司的名字是什么？ 
答：Insight Title代理公司。 
问：他们在购买中的角色是什么？ 
答：他们提供产权承诺和保单，并且他们是结算代理，所以他们处理交易的资金。 
问：什么是结算代理？ 
答：结算代理通常是产权公司。在新泽西州，我们就是这样进行交易的。他们接收押金，买方的
资金，可能还有贷款人的资金，然后他们按照结算声明分配资金。

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问：在产权公司和代理协议之后，你做了什么？ 
答：我索要了一份合同副本。 
问：合同价格是多少？ 
答：2600万美元。 
问：2600万美元的付款条款是什么？ 
答：200万美元的押金。余额在结算时支付。没有抵押贷款的附带条件。 
问：你说没有抵押贷款的附带条件，这对普通人来说是什么意思？ 
答：这是现金交易。所有的钱都来自买方。 
问：合同上列出的买方是谁？ 
施洛夫律师说：反对。已经问过并回答了。 
法官说：驳回反对。你可以回答。 
答：Taurus Fund SP。 
问：SP是什么？ 
答：我不太确定。 
问：据你所知，SP可以持有该物业的产权吗？ 
答：不可以。我和产权公司谈过，这不是新泽西州认可的产权实体。 
问：亚伦·米切尔告诉你关于 Taurus Fund SP的什么事情吗？ 
答：他说他们将在结算时成立一个有限责任公司。 
问：最终持有物业产权的实体是什么？ 
答：Taurus Fund, LLC。 
问：Taurus Fund, LLC是如何构建的？

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施洛夫律师说：反对。 
法官说：如果你知道的话。 
证人说：我知道。 
法官说：继续。 
答：它是在内华达州成立的，100%的成员——不好意思——100%的成员是 Taurus基金——我
再开始一次。 
它是在内华达州成立的。唯一的成员是 Taurus Management, LLC。 
费根森律师说：好的。洛夫特斯女士，如果我们能展示作为证据的 GX BUCK 1234给证
人。 
问：好的。这是什么物证，巴克女士？ 
答：这是 Taurus Fund, LLC的组织机构文件。 
问：在哪个州？ 
答：内华达州。 
问：请集中注意力在上部中间，它是什么时候成立的？ 
答：2021年 12 月 16 日。 
问：这与 Crocker Mansion的交割日期有多接近？ 
答：我相信我们是在第二天，即 12 月 17 日交割的。 
费根森律师说：如果我们能滚动到第 3页，洛夫特斯女士。 
并且如果我们能放大下半部分，使其更大一些。 
问：谁是 Taurus Fund, LLC的经理？ 
答：经理是 Taurus Management, LLC和 Scott Barnett。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
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问—— 
施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我假设政府是在询问文件上注明的经理，对吗？ 
法官说：这是你的问题吗？ 
费根森律师说：是的，法官大人。 
法官说：关于文件上说的？ 
费根森律师说：是的。 
法官说：继续。 
由检方费根森律师继续询问： 
问：这些经理的地址是什么？ 
答：Sky Pointe Drive, Suite 129-1071, Las Vegas, Nevada。 
问：两个经理的地址一样吗？ 
答：对的。 
问：好的。巴克女士，Scott Barnett是谁？ 
答：他是 Taurus Fund, LLC文件中列出的经理。他也是一个联系人，我被授权从他那里接收发
票并相应支付。 
问：你理解他与这个家庭有什么联系吗？如果有的话。 
答：我——我不知道。他是他们的——他安装了他们的安全系统，并处理很多发票，发送给我并
确保它们被支付。我不知道他是朋友还是雇员。我认为他是一个独立承包商。 
问：你提到了安全。你帮助支付了很多安全费用吗？ 
答：是的。 
费根森律师说：好的。洛夫特斯女士，我们能不能看一下 GX BUCK 1233。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
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问：好的。这是什么文件，巴克女士？ 
答：这是 Taurus Management, LLC的组织文件。 
问：这是 Taurus Fund, LLC的一个经理吗？ 
答：对的。 
施洛夫律师说：反对，引导性问题。 
法官说：所以我们可以用较长的方法来做，或者我们可以更有效率地做。这项反对被驳
回。。 
问：好的。我们是否可以——哦，巴克女士，快速地，Taurus Management, LLC是在哪里注册
的？ 
答：新墨西哥州。 
施洛夫律师说：反对，已经问过并回答了。 
费根森律师说：我没有问过这个问题。 
法官说：反对被驳回。你可以回答。 
费根森律师说：如果我们能滚动到第 2页。 
问：好的。Taurus Management, LLC是什么时候注册的？ 
答：2021年 12 月 15日。 
问：这与 Taurus Fund, LLC的注册日期有多接近？ 
答：前一天。 
费根森律师说：我们可以关闭它了，洛夫特斯女士。 
问：巴克女士，亚伦·米切尔有没有告诉过你关于这种结构的原因？如果有的话，他说了些什么？ 
答：他说客户非常关心隐私和安全，他们采取了极大的措施来保护他们的隐私和保持安全。

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问：你的反应是什么？ 
答：考虑到物业的价格，我认为是名人或高净值个人，所以我对这种级别的安全措施并不感到惊
讶。 
问：巴克女士，大约什么时候是交割日期？ 
答：大约在 2021年 12 月 17 日。 
问：你说这是现金交易，对吗？ 
施洛夫律师说：反对，已经问过并回答了。 
法官说：继续下一个问题。 
问：是谁或哪个实体发送了购买物业的现金？ 
答：当时我不知道，因为我不是结算代理。这是发给产权公司的。 
问：你后来知道了吗？ 
答：后来我知道是汉密尔顿。 
问：你了解汉密尔顿是什么吗？ 
答：我的理解是，它就像 Taurus Fund的母公司，因为它是一个新成立的实体。 
问：你的这个理解来自哪里？ 
答：与亚伦·米切尔的对话。 
问：巴克女士，交割后你做了什么工作？ 
答：交割后，我代表 Taurus Fund 支付了各种供应商和承包商的发票。 
问：这项工作的主要联系人是谁？ 
答：最初是亚伦·米切尔。 
问：米切尔有没有告诉过你为什么让你做那项工作？如果有的话，说了些什么？

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答：因为 Taurus Fund是一个新成立的实体，他们还没有开设银行账户，他们在交割后立即开始
进行装修和工作，所以这是一个短期任务。 
问：你能向陪审团描述一下你的工作内容吗？ 
答：我会收到保密协议和发票进行审核；我会被告知它们是否是分期合同，支付金额和支付对
象；我会核实电汇指示，并从我的信托账户发出电汇。 
问：你大约什么时候开始这项工作的？ 
答：交割后立即。 
问：你大约持续到什么时候才停止这些支付？ 
答：直到 2023年 2 月。 
问：一般来说，巴克女士，你付款的频率是怎样的？ 
答：频繁。有时一天多次，有时每天。有时每隔几天一次。总的来说是相当频繁的。 
问：你支付了哪些类型的费用？ 
答：建筑和装修、家具、艺术品、家居。 
问：总体来说，你处理的支付总金额大约是多少？ 
答：大约 1800万美元。 
问：你支付给供应商的款项，那些钱是从哪里进入你的信托账户的？ 
答：来自汉密尔顿。 
问：你知道汉密尔顿的钱来自哪里吗？ 
答：我不知道。 
问：你认为你在进行这些支付时做了什么错事吗？ 
答：没有。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
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问：巴克女士，我们之前看过代理协议。你有这项支付工作的代理协议吗？ 
答：这是一个较不正式的代理协议。是通过电子邮件，但有记录。 
费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们是否可以展示 GX BUCK 1295。 
如果我们能滚动到第 2页。稍微向下滚动。很好。 
问：这是电子邮件吗，巴克女士？ 
答：是的。 
问：好的。你把这封电子邮件发送给谁？ 
答：亚伦·米切尔。 
问：好的。我请你读一下第一段。 
答：“如你所知，上述交易的购买已完成。你作为 Taurus Fund, LLC的授权人，已要求我继续就
购买、交付和协调各种家具以及与相关公司/供应商的互动提供代表服务。由于 Taurus Fund, 
LLC是一个新实体，正在开设银行账户过程中，我将利用我的信托账户接收来自 Taurus Fund, 
LLC或代表 Taurus Fund, LLC的资金，以支付各种供应商。我还将与供应商协商保密协议，以
确保买方及其信息的保护。预计我将与大约五个供应商协调，而 Scott Barnett是 Taurus Fund, 
LLC的授权人/经理，他将向我提供付款指示和书面授权。” 
问：巴克女士，暂停一下，当你刚才提到 Taurus Fund, LLC正在开设银行账户时，你是从哪里
得到这个信息的？ 
答：这个信息来自亚伦·米切尔和 Scott Barnett。 
问：你提到保密协议。这在你的实践中有多常见？ 
答：在典型的房地产交易中，住宅交易中不太常见；在商业交易中比较常见。通常是大额交易。 
问：你认为使用保密协议有什么问题吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：好的。我不会让你读了，巴克女士，但你最初的这项工作的费用是多少？

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答：15000美元。 
费根森律师说：如果我们能向上滚动，请。 
对不起。向下滚动。 
问：亚伦·米切尔在回复中说了什么？ 
答：“代表 Taurus确认。” 
费根森律师说：如果我们能向上滚动。继续向上滚动。很好。 
问：巴克女士，最上面的这封电子邮件的日期是什么？ 
答：2022年 2 月 21 日。 
问：这封电子邮件大约在初次电子邮件之后多久？ 
答：大约两个月。 
问：你把这封电子邮件发送给谁？ 
答：亚伦·米切尔。 
问：好的。巴克女士，我请你读一下前三段。 
答：“希望你一切都好。如前所述，我的服务已经超出了我们最初的协议，你希望我提供之前工作
的费用和如果继续同样安排的每月费用。 
“你可能还记得，我的服务包括向大约 5个供应商支付款项，处理大约 200万美元的客户
资金，并在一个月内完成。当时我只有一个联系人，Scott（不包括你）。我的费用是 15,000美
元的固定费用。该安排在 2021年 12 月 21 日得到了确认。 
“截至目前，超过 1,000万美元的客户资金已经汇入我的账户。已向大约 23 个供应商进
行了超过 55次付款。我现在有三个联系人，Scott，Sean和 Gladys（仍然不包括你）。如你所
知，电汇指示是通过口头确认的，保密协议、保险证明和发票都是由我审核的。我还会与联系人
讨论付款的优先次序，审查剩余的资金以及他们可能有的任何其他问题。”

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 28 / 161页 
问：现在，巴克女士，你提到的增加，从 1000万美元和 5个供应商到 23 个供应商，是事先与您
讨论过还是就这样发生了？ 
答：就这样发生了。 
问：你的反应是什么？ 
答：我不高兴。这不是我们的——这不是我们的安排，但我试图帮助客户继续他们的装修工作，
所以我不想妨碍他们。 
问：再次，巴克女士，请简短地说一下，你继续进行这项工作的持续费用是多少？ 
答：15000美元。 
问：你多久会得到 15000美元？ 
答：每月。是按月获得的。 
问：好的。在你读的内容中，你列出了三个联系人。你提到的 Scott是哪位 Scott？ 
答：Scott——对不起——Scott Barnett。 
问：我们之前讨论过的那位？ 
答：是的。 
问：好的。那么 Sean是谁？ 
答：Sean Jing也是一个联系人，我被授权从他那里接收发票并相应支付。 
问：你见过他本人吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：你和他通过电话吗？ 
答：相当频繁。 
问：你们讨论了什么？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
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答：他会发给我发票，他会检查付款情况，他会优先安排付款。 
问：你知道他曾正式就职于哪家公司吗？如果有的话。 
答：我不知道正式的情况。 
问：你知道他的职称是什么吗？ 
施洛夫律师说：反对。职称是什么？ 
法官说：你可以回答。 
答：我认为他是项目经理或房屋经理。 
他似乎是 Crocker Mansion的一员，所以他知道正在进行的事情。 
问：你了解他为谁工作吗？ 
施洛夫律师说：反对。 
答：他工作—— 
法官说：驳回反对。如果你知道他为谁工作，你可以说。 
答：他为 Taurus Fund 工作。我只是不知道具体职务。 
问：你还提到另一个联系人，Gladys。Gladys是谁？ 
答：Gladys周是另一个授权给我发送发票的人。 
问：你见过她本人吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：你和她通过电话吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你们讨论了什么？ 
答：她似乎负责高端家具和艺术品，因此她会优先确定需要支付的款项及其时间。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
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问：你知道她的职称是什么吗？ 
答：我认为她——我认为她也是一个项目经理。 
施洛夫律师说：反对“认为”。她要么知道，要么不知道。 
法官说：所以，请你只陈述你所知道的，而不是猜测。 
证人说：明白了。在一些电子邮件中，我看到她的职称是项目经理。 
由检方费根森律师继续询问： 
问：正式来说，你知道她为哪家公司工作吗？ 
答：不知道。 
问：实际上，你认为她为谁工作？ 
答：她是 Taurus Fund的代理人。我不知道她是否有自己的公司——我不知道具体情况。 
费根森律师说：好的。现在，洛夫特斯女士，我们能否公布 GX BUCK 822。 
问：巴克女士，你之前提到过有与安全相关的费用。你记得哪些与安全相关的费用？ 
答：安装了一个安全系统；我确定还有摄像头之类的东西；任何进入该物业的人都签署了所谓的
保密协议。这是为了保护买方。我不记得了——有很多发票。我确定——还有很多安全系统的发
票。 
问：在金额方面，它们是否很重要？ 
答：我相信是的。 
问：好的。现在，巴克女士，请你注意这一点。 
费根森律师说：我们能否放大底部的电子邮件，请，洛夫特斯女士。 
问：好的。巴克女士，请你读一下你写的这封电子邮件。 
答：“Hi Scott，请发送一份签署的保密协议和上述供应商的 100000美元发票。此外，请提供授
权，将 100000美元电汇给这个供应商。”

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
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问：好的。这封电子邮件的日期是什么，巴克女士？ 
答：2021年 12 月 22 日。 
问：这封电子邮件是在你开始支付工作的多长时间后发的？ 
答：在第一巴克女士内。 
问：在收件人一栏，邮件标题部分，这封邮件是发给谁的？ 
答：[email protected]。 
问：那是谁的邮箱？ 
答：Scott Barnett。 
问：谁被抄送了？ 
答：对不起？ 
问：谁被抄送了这封邮件？ 
答：哦，对不起。亚伦·米切尔。 
问：好的。你的邮件正文中提到“上述供应商”。邮件的主题是什么？ 
答：Taurus-付款给 Labarbiera Custom Homes, LLC。 
问：Labarbiera Custom Homes, LLC是什么公司？ 
答：是一家建筑公司。 
问：你和那里的人有联系吗？ 
答：一个叫Vinnie Labarbiera的人。 
问：Vinnie Labarbiera是谁？ 
答：他是老板。 
问：他在 Crocker Mansion上做了什么？如果有的话。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
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答：他做了很多建筑工作。他还与 Taurus Fund 签订了一份每月的维护合同。 
费根森律师说：好的。如果我们能缩小。 
如果我们能放大顶部的电子邮件。 
谢谢，洛夫特斯女士。 
问：Scott Barnett在回复中写了什么？ 
答：“附件是你要求的文件，我授权支付给供应商。” 
问：好的。那封邮件有附件吗？ 
答：有的。 
费根森律师说：好的。洛夫特斯女士，如果我们能向下滚动。我们可以去第 7页。 
问：好的。现在，巴克女士，在这里的顶部，你能读一下顶部中心的那一行吗？ 
答：LABARBIERA CUSTOM HOMES LLC。 
问：然后再往下看一点，这份文件的日期是什么？ 
答：2021年 12 月 18日。 
问：然后你能读一下下面的 Re行吗？ 
答：“Taurus Fund SP。 
675 Ramapo Valley Road, Mahwah。 
建筑合同。” 
问：你能读一下下面的句子吗？ 
答：“Labarbiera Custom Homes, LLC将在上述场所提供以下服务。” 
费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们能稍微滚动一下，看看这两页。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
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问：好的。巴克女士，我想请你注意一下“以下区域将进行拆除工作”这句话下面的内容。你能读
一下下面的文字吗？ 
答：“2楼女士主卧区。 
3楼儿子卧区。 
3楼女儿卧区。 
2楼卧室浴室改为洗衣房。” 
问：巴克女士，什么是“卧区”？ 
答：那是房子的一部分。可能是房子的建筑结构，它有不同的翼，分支出去。 
问：这里说的“主卧区”是什么意思？ 
答：主卧通常是指家庭的主要负责人，夫妻，丈夫与妻子。 
问：儿子卧区是什么意思？ 
答：通常是指其中一个孩子的卧区。 
费根森律师说：好的。请稍微向下滚动，洛夫特斯女士。 
问：好的。然后注意加粗的文本“女儿的卧区 3楼”，你能读一下下面的第一行文字吗？ 
答：“标记的墙壁将被拆除。” 
费根森律师说：我们可以缩小，洛夫特斯女士。然后再次向下滚动。 
问：注意女士卧区 2楼，你能读一下前三行文字吗？ 
答：“标记的开口将被封闭。 
按照计划形成的标注开口 
标记的墙壁将被拆除。” 
问：你认为女士卧区是什么意思？

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 34 / 161页 
答：夫妻中的妻子，主人之一。 
由检方费根森律师继续询问： 
问：这里写着按照计划形成标记的开口。你记得看过这个计划吗？ 
答：我没有看到建筑计划。 
问：如果我们关注三层儿子的卧区。你能读一下下面的第一行文字吗？ 
答：现有的剧院平台分隔墙和地毯将被拆除。 
问：我们翻到第 10页。 
注意底部，巴克女士，这项工作的总合同价格是多少？ 
答：488,300美元。 
问：这个合同签字了吗？ 
答：没有。 
施洛夫律师说：反对。这不是合同。 
问：这份文件签字了吗？ 
法官说：继续。 
答：没有。 
问：我们来看 GXBuck-168。你后来收到签字的副本了吗，巴克女士？ 
答：收到了。 
问：你可以滚动到第五页，洛夫特斯女士。 
巴克女士，这份副本签字了吗？ 
答：签了。 
问：你知道谁代表 Taurus Fund, LLC签字吗？

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答：我相信是 Scott Barnett。 
施洛夫律师说：反对“相信”。她要么知道，要么不知道。 
法官说：请只陈述你知道的。 
答：Scott Barnett把签字的合同发给了我。 
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以看 GXBuck-851。实际上我们可以从第三页开始，请放大底部的电
子邮件，洛夫特斯女士。 
巴克女士，这封电子邮件的日期是什么？ 
答：2022年 1 月 6 日。 
问：到目前为止你已经做支付工作多长时间了？ 
答：不到一个月。 
问：这封邮件是谁发的？ 
答：Gladys周。 
问：她的电子邮件地址是什么？ 
答：[email protected]。 
问：你知道 HCHK Tech是什么吗？ 
答：我不知道。 
问：你能读一下邮件的前两行吗？ 
答：附件是购买地毯的文件。有两张单独的发票，附件一为 30万美元，附件二为 20万美元——
对不起，25万美元的附件二。保险证明和保密协议也附在其中。 
问：顺便问一下，巴克女士，什么是保险证书？ 
答：保险证书。

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问：什么是保险证书？ 
答：它们显示在这种情况下，供应商有保险，因为他们携带高端家具，所以我们想看到他们是否
投保，以防万一发生意外。 
问：我们可以缩小，洛夫特斯女士。我们可以滚动到第二页。放大那封电子邮件，是的，请。 
巴克女士，你可以读一下你的回复吗？ 
答：嗨，Gladys。我需要精细地毯的签字同意，我们可以直接支付给所有者。他们可以在发票上
写明，或者发邮件指示我支付给 Nahid Botesazan。我还需要 Nahid的电汇指示。Scott，请授权
这两笔地毯的付款。 
问：你为什么要 Scott 授权付款？ 
答：在 Taurus刚开始的时候，艾伦和 Scott是当时唯一的授权代表。Gladys没有被授权，所以
我需要有人告诉我支付他们。 
问：我们可以放大回复。Gladys的回复是什么？ 
附件是指示你支付Nahid两张中国地毯的电子邮件，Nahid的电汇信息也附在其中。谢谢。 
施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我认为这封邮件开头是“Hi 艾米”，然后是邮件正文。 
法官说：你说你想暂停吗？ 
费根森律师说：不，我不想打断你。 
法官说：请你说明邮件内容。 
证人说：你想让我重新读吗？ 
法官说：是的。 
答：嗨艾米，附件是指示你支付Nahid两张中国地毯的电子邮件，Nahid的电汇信息也附在其
中。谢谢。此致。 
问：我们是否可以缩小并滚动到上方。放大巴克女士的电子邮件。巴克女士，在你的回复中有一
张图像。那是什么图像？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 37 / 161页 
答：那是我的 Excel表格中的图像。 
问：那个 Excel表格记录了什么？ 
答：代表 Taurus Fund 支付的款项。 
问：我们可以缩小并滚动到上方。然后 Gladys的回复是什么？ 
答：请暂缓处理 DND。客户想要再次确认这些项目。此致。 
问：你认为客户指的是谁？ 
答：这个家庭。 
问：我们是否可以缩小。我们来看 GX Buck-532。我们是否可以稍微向下滚动。巴克女士，你能
读一下 Gladys的最初邮件吗？ 
答：嗨艾米，附件是从 DND画廊购买家具的文件。谢谢，此致。 
问：我们往上看。你在回复中写了什么？ 
答：嗨Scott，如果可以接受，请授权付款。 
问：然后我们来看下一封邮件。Gladys的回复是什么？ 
答：嗨，艾米，这是 41 件物品的最终发票和真实性证书。负责人已经批准并授权付款。请今天
处理付款。非常感谢，Gladys。 
问：当她说负责人已批准并授权付款时，你认为负责人是谁？ 
答：家庭中的某个人。 
问：我们是否可以缩小，洛夫特斯女士，我们是否可以向下滚动。这封邮件有附件，对吗，巴克
女士？ 
答：是的。 
问：你能读一下这里的描述吗，巴克女士？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 38 / 161页 
答：一张非常罕见和不寻常的古董法国路易——我不记得罗马数字了，十六世，镀金青铜装饰的
波乐和镀银青铜长方形桌子/中心桌，工艺精湛，装饰精细，并饰有镀金青铜人物面具，19世
纪。问：好的。谢谢。我们可否继续滚动。谢谢，洛夫特斯女士。我们可以停在这里。洛夫特斯
女士，我们来看 GX Buck-709。巴克女士，注意顶部，你能读一下右上角的文字吗？ 
答：固定费率精英。 
问：左边的大字写的是什么？ 
答：你的搬家计划。 
问：注意上方的小字，列出的名字是什么？ 
答：Taurus Fund, LLC。 
问：这个文件的日期是什么？ 
答：2022年 1 月 18日。 
问：这大约是在交割后多久？ 
答：大约一个月。 
问：在标题下方，你能读一下那里的大字吗？ 
答：对不起。我不知道你指的哪里。 
问：你看到“即将到来的精英搬家”吗？ 
答：看到了。 
问：注意下面写着“从哪里”，你看到吗？ 
答：看到了。 
问：你能读一下出发地址吗？ 
答：373 Taconic Road, Greenwich, Connecticut 06831, flights 2.5。 
问：你知道康涅狄格州格林威治的这个地址吗？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 39 / 161页 
答：不知道。 
问：有人告诉你这是哪里吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：有人告诉你谁住在那里吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：你能读一下目的地址吗？ 
答：675 Ramapo Valley Road, Mahwah, New Jersey 07431, flights 2.0。 
问：那个地址是什么？ 
答：那是 Crocker Mansion的地址。 
问：这次搬家什么时候安排的，注意你下面的内容？ 
答：2022年 1 月 20 日，星期四，打包日期。 
问：搬入日期是什么时候？ 
答：2022年 1 月 21 日，星期五，和 2022年 1 月 28日，星期五。 
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们是否可以稍微缩小。 
注意我们刚才看的内容，巴克女士，这次搬家的价格是多少？ 
答：118,000美元。 
问：如果我们滚动到第二页，如果我们放大前几行并使其更大。 
巴克女士，左上角写着家具，你能读一下左边的前两行吗？ 
答：客厅中的一个特大号橱柜，20 x 25 x 2 主卧室。 
问：下面的一行是什么？ 
答：一个金色球体 15 x 1 x 1 主卧室，一个橱柜储存特大号餐厅。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 40 / 161页 
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以缩小。我们可以看第七页，放大签名部分。 
现在，巴克女士，你看到顶部写着电子签名吗？ 
答：看到了。 
问：大字写的名字是什么？ 
答：Scott Barnett。 
问：签名行写的是什么？ 
答：Scott Barnett签名。 
问：签名的电子邮件地址是什么？ 
答：[email protected]。 
问：根据你的理解谁在使用那个电子邮件？ 
答：Gladys周。 
问：Scott Barnett使用那个电子邮件吗？ 
施洛夫律师说：反对。 
法官说：你可以回答。 
答：他没有用那个电子邮件和我联系。 
问：我们来看 GXBuck-1204，我们是否可以放大文字部分。 
巴克女士，这是你收到的用于支付工作的发票之一吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你支付了这张发票吗？ 
答：支付了。 
问：左上角写的是什么？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 41 / 161页 
答：Meritt Plumbing。 
问：这张发票的日期是什么？请注意右上角。 
��：2022年 1 月 24 日。 
问：这张发票的工作地点是什么？ 
答：康涅狄格州格林威治 Taconic Road。 
问：这个地址与我们刚刚看到的出发地址相比如何？ 
答：是一样的。 
问：在地址下面，账单寄送对象写的是什么？ 
答：Sean。 
问：你理解的 Sean是指谁？ 
答：Sean Jing。 
问：滚动到下方或看底部，这张发票的总金额是多少？ 
答：400美元。 
问：我们来看政府物证 Buck-375。这封邮件是谁发的？ 
答：Gladys周。 
问：这封邮件的日期是什么？ 
答：2022年 1 月 27 日。 
问：作为参考，这大约是在交割后多久？ 
答：一个多月。 
问：这封邮件是发给谁的？ 
答：发给我和 Scott Barnett。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 42 / 161页 
问：Scott Barnett的电子邮件是什么？ 
答：[email protected]。 
问：你知道 GSNYUS是什么吗？ 
答：不知道。 
问：这封邮件的主题是什么？ 
答：海丝腾的床垫购买。 
问：如果你知道，海丝腾是什么？ 
答：一家床垫公司。 
问：你能读一下 Gladys的邮件正文吗？ 
答：嗨，艾米，附件中的客户已经批准了。谢谢。 
问：你理解的客户是指谁？ 
答：家庭。 
问：这封邮件有附件吗？ 
答：有的。 
问：如果我们能滚动到第三页，洛夫特斯女士。这是谁的销售订单簿？ 
答：这是海丝腾的。 
问：洛夫特斯女士，也许我们可以放大顶部部分，使其更容易阅读。账单寄送对象下列的是什
么？ 
答：Taurus Fund, LLC。 
问：那是拉斯维加斯的地址吗？ 
答：是的。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 43 / 161页 
问：寄送对象下列的是什么？ 
答：675 Ramapo Valley Road, Mahwah。 
问：那是 Crocker Mansion的地址吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：如果我们能滚动到下方，洛夫特斯女士，如果我们能放大从那个表格开始的其余部分。 
巴克女士，首先注意第一行和第二行，那些项目是什么？ 
答：床垫和床顶垫。 
问：这两个项目的颜色是什么？ 
施洛夫律师说：反对，床垫的颜色与本案无关。 
法官说：驳回反对。你可以回答。 
答：蓝色。 
问：床垫的价格是多少？ 
答：36,590美元。 
问：床顶垫的价格是多少？ 
答：5,590美元。 
问：注意第三行和第四行，那些项目是什么？ 
答：床垫和床顶垫。 
问：那些项目的颜色是什么？ 
答：白色。 
问：床垫的价格是多少？ 
答：36,210美元。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 44 / 161页 
问：床顶垫的价格是多少？ 
答：5,840美元。 
 
 
问：然后注意第五行，那是什么项目？ 
答：配件。 
问：加粗的部分写的是什么？ 
答：床垫套。 
问：数量是多少？有多少件？ 
答：两件。 
问：只关注总成本，折扣后的总金额是多少？ 
答：80,829.21美元。 
问：我们来看 GXBuck-522。如果我们能翻到第三页，稍微向上滚动，我们可以放大底部的那
个。 
巴克女士，这是我们刚才看到的初始电子邮件吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：我们现在可以向上滚动。你回信写了什么？ 
答：嗨，Scott，请批准购买。Gladys建议交货将送到她的纽约办公室地址，所以不需要保密协
议。谢谢。 
问：如果我们能向上滚动。 
巴克女士，你理解为什么如果交货到纽约办公室就不需要保密协议？ 
答：如果供应商不在 Crocker Mansion现场，就不需要保密协议。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 45 / 161页 
问：你再次回信写了什么，你能读一下下一封邮件吗？ 
答：抱歉。看起来你有一份签署的保密协议和保险证书。在我这边可以了。Gladys，我假设还有
另一个请求是送到你的办公室。谢谢。 
问：Gladys的回复是什么，你能读一下第一行吗？ 
答：正确。床垫还是会送到新泽西。 
问：她回复的最后一行是什么？ 
答：只有钢琴先送到纽约办公室。我收到发票后会立即发给你。谢谢。 
问：你记得纽约办公室的地址吗，巴克女士？ 
答：不记得。 
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们是否可以展示或公布 GX Buck-69。 
在我们等待的时候，巴克女士，你收到过钢琴的发票吗？ 
答：收到了。 
问：如果我们能放大上半部分。在顶部中心，这份销售单是谁的？ 
答：Faust Harrison Pianos。 
问：右上角的日期是什么？ 
答：2022年 1 月 27 日。 
问：售给，能读一下顶部那一行吗？ 
答：Taurus Fund, LLC。 
问：你能读一下完整的寄送地址吗？ 
答：Gladys周, 3 Columbus Circle 20楼，纽约，纽约 10019。 
问：你知道那个地址是什么，巴克女士？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 46 / 161页 
答：不知道。 
问：你能读一下描述的第一行吗？ 
答：Bosendorfer 185VC Porsche #49539，带定制长椅。 
问：注意右下角，总金额是多少？ 
答：140,938.69美元。 
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们来看 GXBuck-428。 
这封邮件的日期是什么，巴克女士？ 
答：2022年 2 月 17 日。 
问：注意发件人一栏，发件人的电子邮件地址是什么？ 
答：[email protected]。 
问：那个电子邮件地址是什么？ 
答：这是我从 Gladys 周和 Sean Jing那里收到邮件的邮箱地址。 
问：注意底部的电子邮件，谁签署了这封邮件？ 
答：Gladys。 
问：她在下面列了什么？ 
答：项目经理。 
问：你能读一下购买下的第一行吗，只读第一行和第二行？ 
答：海丝腾床垫 36,596.90美元，Cedric DuPont运费 38,651.80美元。 
问：注意附件一栏，你能读一下第一个附件的名称，巴克女士？ 
答：海丝腾 invoice daughter 2.17.22.pdf。 
问：你理解的 daughter是指谁？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 47 / 161页 
答：家庭中的女儿。 
问：我们可以翻到第二页吗？ 
巴克女士，快速关注第一行和第二行，指示的颜色是什么？ 
答：缩写，似乎是银蓝色。 
问：我们可以缩小。总成本是多少？ 
答：36,596.90美元。 
问：我们可以翻到第六页，洛夫特斯女士。我们可以放大上半部分。 
现在，发货方，看到吗，巴克女士？ 
答：看到了。 
问：你能读一下第二行吗？ 
答：Cedric DuPont 古董。 
问：实际上，我们来看看 GXBuck-77。实际上，洛夫特斯女士，我们是否可以看 GXBuck-77 和
GXBuck-80。巴克女士，在这两个文件中，中心的大字是什么？ 
答：Cedric DuPont Antiques。 
问：注意右边文件的描述，你能读一下吗？ 
答：一盏惊艳的大型 19世纪意大利锻铁灯笼。 
问：我们来看 GXBuck-194。我们可以放大它。 
巴克女士，注意左上角的日期，日期是什么？ 
答：2022年 2 月 2 日。 
问：然后移动到右上角，客户姓名是什么？ 
答：Sean Jing。

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 48 / 161页 
问：回到左边，账单寄送对象下的前两行是什么？ 
答：Taurus Funds LLC，Sean Jing。 
问：底部列出的电子邮件地址是什么？ 
答：[email protected]。 
问：那是谁的电子邮件地址？ 
答：Sean Jing。 
问：寄送对象，你能读一下第一行吗？ 
答：Sean Jing。 
问：下面是 Crocker Mansion的地址吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：实际上，我认为你能看到。你能读一下订单项目下的描述吗？ 
答：三星 Q900系列，QN98Q900RBF，98英寸，QLED智能电视-8K 新款。 
问：右边的单价是多少？ 
答：59,969美元。 
问：运费的单价是多少？ 
答：2,818.54美元。 
问：我们来看 GX Buck-218。 
巴克女士，这是你工作中收到的发票吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：左上角公司的名字是什么？ 
答：Luca, Inc。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 49 / 161页 
问：右边的日期是什么？ 
答：2022年 2 月 20 日。 
问：你能读一下描述栏第二行吗？ 
答：油漆和修理老板的门。 
问：你能读一下倒数第二行吗？ 
答：为老板的浴室提供和安装两个毛巾架。 
问：你理解的老板是谁？ 
答：家庭的负责人。 
问：你曾经见过名叫老板的人吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：我们来看第二页。快速看一下，你能读一下第二行吗？ 
答：在女士的洗衣房安装两个衣柜杆。 
问：我们来看 GXBuck-391。巴克女士，注意顶部，这封邮件是谁发的？ 
答：Gladys周。 
问：日期是什么？ 
答：2022年 3 月 29 日。 
问：如果我们能缩小。专注于底部的电子邮件，巴克女士，你能读一下收件人后面写的是什么
吗？ 
答：金泉纽约有限公司。 
问：你知道金泉纽约有限公司是什么吗？ 
答：不知道。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 50 / 161页 
问：我们来看 GX Buck-1275。 
巴克女士，这封邮件是谁发给你的？ 
答：Gladys。 
问：这封邮件的日期是什么？ 
答：2022年 5月 23 日。 
问：请你读一下第二段的第一行？ 
答：附件中请查收 Amuneal书架的发票、电汇指示和保险证书。 
问：在同一段中你能读一下最后一行吗？ 
答：客户已经批准了。 
问：你理解的客户是谁？ 
答：这个家庭。 
问：巴克女士，你能再读一遍下一句，那里写着没有？ 
答：没有，因为这不是古董物品，而是为客户定制的。 
问：我们滚动到第三页。描述栏下，巴克女士，你能读一下第一行吗？ 
答：黄铜书架。 
问：我们放大左上角，请看第二页。应该是同一物证 1275，左上角。 
问：注意后面的接收人写的是什么？ 
答：Leanne Leonal @ G Fashion.com。 
问：你知道 G Fashion是什么吗？ 
答：不知道。 
问：你知道 Leanne是谁吗？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 51 / 161页 
答：不知道。 
问：你能读一下参考栏后面写的是什么吗？ 
答：黄铜书架以匹配黄铜储藏室。 
问：专注于底部，这将被送到哪里？ 
答：675 Ramapo Valley Road, Mahwah, New York。 
问：那是 Crocker Mansion吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：我们来看 GX Buck-1279，滚动到下方，我们可以放大底部的电子邮件。 
巴克女士，Ilona Musial是谁？ 
答：她是另一个授权人，向我发送发票付款。 
问：她发给你的这封邮件的日期是什么？ 
答：2022年 6 月 2 日。 
问：你能读一下她的信息吗？ 
答：你好，艾米。我是 Crocker Mansion的房屋经理 Ilona Musial。我正在给你发送一些账单付
款。如果没有问题，从现在开始我将直接向你发送所有发票或账单，跳过 Scott。谢谢，Ilona 
Musial。 
问：我们可以缩小并继续向上滚动。我们回到第一页。如果我们放大底部的电子邮件。 
巴克女士，在这部分电子邮件链中，你正在与谁邮件往来？ 
答：亚伦·米切尔。 
问：你能读一下你给亚伦·米切尔的邮件吗？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 52 / 161页 
答：好的。她说她接替了 Scott的位置，所以我不确定。她给我发了两张 Rockland Electric的账
单，这些账单已经支付了。我可以告诉她它们已支付并支付其他的。她知道我们需要为每个合同/
供应商签署保密协议、保险证书等。 
问：我们可以缩小这封邮件并滚动到顶部邮件。你能读一下亚伦·米切尔的第一句话回复吗？ 
答：我没有和她谈过。刚刚得知他们雇了一位房屋经理。 
问：当他说“她”时，你理解的她是谁？ 
答：Ilona Musial。 
问：当他说“刚刚得知他们雇了一位房屋经理”时，你理解的“他们”指的是谁？ 
答：这个家庭。 
问：我们来看 GX Buck-1274。我们可以放大底部的电子邮件。是谁发的这封邮件？ 
答：Ilona Musial。 
问：你能读一下她邮件的前两行吗？ 
答：你好，艾米。谢谢你回复我。我和 Scott和雁平谈过，从现在开始我会把付款请求发给你处
理。 
问：你知道雁平是谁吗？ 
答：不知道。 
问：你见过她吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：你曾直接与她交谈过吗？ 
答：据我记得没有。 
问：你知道她为哪些公司工作吗？ 
施洛夫律师说：我认为她已经作证说她不知道雁平是谁。

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法官说：反对有效。 
问：我们来看 GX Buck-1277。我们可以放大顶部邮件。是谁发的这封邮件？ 
答：Ilona Musial。 
问：发给谁的？ 
答：我，艾米 Buck。 
问：谁被抄送了？ 
答：Scott Barnett和 Sean Jing。 
问：我想请你读一下长段落中的最后一句？ 
答：我们需要每天听到你的消息，确认付款是否已发出，因为家庭要求准时支付所有供应商，特
别是优先付款。 
问：你理解的家庭是谁？ 
答：Taurus Fund背后的家庭。 
问：我们来看 GX Buck-1282。 
巴克女士，你理解的曹德峰是谁？ 
答：我在发票上看到过这个名字，所以我认为他是家庭的一员。 
施洛夫律师说：反对这个假设。 
法官说：不要说你的假设，只说你知道的。 
答：我在各种发票上看到过曹这个名字。 
问：我们放大底部的电子邮件。是谁发的这封邮件？ 
答：曹德峰。 
问：你能读一下主要问题吗？

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答：当资金余额接近 20万美元时，请提前告知我。 
问：你理解他所指的资金余额是什么？ 
答：我信托账户中的余额。 
问：你如何回应的？ 
答：绝对没有问题。 
问：你曾见过曹德峰本人吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：你曾与他通电话吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：你与他有过什么样的互动？ 
答：他会被抄送一些邮件，或者他发的邮件我被抄送，所以我只通过邮件看到过他的名字。 
问：我们来看 GX Buck-1294。这是你工作中收到的另一张发票吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：我们放大左上角。现在，你能读一下左下角写的是什么吗？ 
答：曹居住地，675 Ramapo Valley Road, Mahwah, New Jersey。 
问：你在收到的其他发票上也看到过曹居住地吗？ 
答：看过。 
问：然后专注于右上角，客户编号后面写的是什么？ 
答：曹。 
问：你可以放下那个，洛夫特斯女士。 
问：巴克女士，在你审阅的证人文件夹中，你选择了哪些文件放入该证人文件夹吗？

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答：我没有。 
问：公平地说，你收到过很多发票吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：它们都在那个证人文件夹中吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：巴克女士，你是否曾收到与工作相关的传票？ 
答：是的。 
问：传票来自谁？ 
答：美国证券交易委员会（SEC）。 
问：你大约什么时候收到的？ 
答：2022年 5月。 
问：收到传票后你做了什么？ 
答：我惊慌失措。 
问：你为什么惊慌失措？ 
答：我不是诉讼律师。我不上法庭。传票对我来说非常新。 
问：惊慌之后你做了什么？ 
答：我立刻把传票副本发给了亚伦·米切尔，并给他打了电话。 
问：你和亚伦·米切尔讨论了什么？ 
答：我收到了一份传票以及接下来的步骤。 
问：他对你说了什么？ 
答：他比我冷静得多，说这就是做生意的成本，他们会雇佣律师，我们会继续前进。

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问：当他说“这就是做生意的成本”时，你理解这是什么意思？ 
答：要么他们对传票并不惊讶，要么他们有其他的。我不太清楚。 
问：他在那次通话中有没有告诉你关于这个家庭的事情？ 
答：他说政府不喜欢这个客户，因为他们是中国联邦党的成员，这个传票看起来并不意外。 
问：你听说过中国联邦党吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：你关注中国政治吗？ 
答：不关注。 
问：你关注中美外交关系吗？ 
答：我尽量不关注。 
问：你知道中国联邦党是什么吗？ 
答：不知道。 
问：当他说政府不喜欢他们时，你是否有独立的知识证明这是真的？ 
答：没有。 
问：在那次对话之后，巴克女士，你在回应传票时做了什么？ 
答：雇佣了律师，然后我与律师沟通以回应传票。 
问：不涉及你与律师的讨论，你的律师最终代表你回应了传票吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：现在，巴克女士，你信托账户中的资金有没有一段时间减少而没有补充？ 
答：有。 
问：大约是什么时候？

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答：第一次是在 2022年 7 月。 
问：你因此做了什么吗？ 
答：大多数承包商都有我的手机号码。所以当他们没有得到付款时，我接到了很多电话，所以我
主要联系艾伦，看看资金是否会补充，这样我才能支付各种承包商。 
问：在你联系艾伦之后发生了什么？ 
答：我不记得具体的日子了，7 月的某个时候我确实收到了另一笔电汇。 
问：大约是多少？ 
答：五百万。 
问：那五百万最终用完了吗？ 
答：用完了。 
问：然后发生了什么？ 
答：大约在 2022年 10 月、11 月，资金再次减少。我试图弄清我的代理是否结束，这样我可以
移交记录和必要的信息给下一个人。我没有得到任何信息，只是接到承包商的电话，他们没有得
到付款。 
最终我确实联系上了艾伦，他告诉我联系另一个人，看看资金是否会通过我的信托账户支付。 
问：那个人在哪里？ 
答：在英国。 
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以公布 GX Buck-1283。我们可以放大文本。这个邀请是谁发的，巴
克女士？ 
答：David Fallon。 
问：他的电子邮件地址域是什么？ 
答：Hamilton-IM。

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问：这个邀请是发给谁的？ 
答：Priya Patel，余建明，我自己和亚伦·米切尔。 
问：这个邀请的日期是什么？ 
答：2022年 12 月 1 日。 
问：主题是什么？ 
答：Buck Esq. LLC Taurus 通话。 
问：巴克女士，你在这个时间附近有过通话吗？ 
答：有。 
问：通话中有谁？ 
答：我在通话中，Priya Patel。当时还有其他男性在场，我只是不知道 Fallon先生和 Je先生是
否在通话中。 
问：你理解的 David Fallon是谁？ 
答：他是汉密尔顿公司里授权我支付费用和月费的人。 
问：你理解的余建明是谁？ 
答：我不知道。我知道他是汉密尔顿的一部分。 
问：你们在这次通话中讨论了什么？ 
答：我们讨论了几件事。其中一项是我的律师回应传票的律师费。他们想让我对财产进行产权调
查。叫做概况调查，它能告诉你房产上是否有任何留置权。还讨论了我是否会继续担任我的角色
还是结束并交接给其他人。 
问：他们问了关于 SEC传票的事情吗？ 
答：他们在与我的律师费用有关的情况下也问了，他们要了一份传票和我们的回应副本。 
问：在这个时间段，巴克女士， 你对某些账单是否仍在支付的理解是什么？

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答：从承包商打电话给我的方式来看，我的印象是一些付款是由其他人支付的，有些则没有，因
为他们告诉我哪些付款了，哪些没有，因为我知道我支付了什么和没有支付什么。 
问：你知道这些付款来自哪里吗？ 
答：Sean Jing在支付。 
问：你曾和他谈过这个问题吗？ 
答：谈过。 
问：告诉我们关于那次对话的情况？ 
答：我问他是否设立了银行账户以继续支付，他没有真正回答我。他只是说他在处理。 
问：最终你是否能够支付 Taurus应付的发票？ 
答：当时没有。 
问：我们来看——实际上，洛夫特斯女士，我们可以公布 GX Buck-1290。 
问：巴克女士，这是什么证物？ 
答：这是我和亚伦·米切尔之间的短信。 
问：你的字体是绿色还是灰色？ 
答：我的字体是绿色的。 
问：我们可以滚动到下方。1 月 26 日的消息是哪一年，1 月 26 日？ 
答：2024年。 
问：你写给亚伦·米切尔的是什么？ 
答：你收到这个了吗。 
问：你截屏发送给他的是什么？ 
答：一份与破产事项有关的动议通知。

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问：我们可以再次放大。 
问：巴克女士，请注意标题中 "涉及" 后面的部分。你能读一下 "涉及" 后面写了什么吗？ 
答：郭浩云等。 
问：你知道郭浩云是谁吗？ 
答：不知道。 
问：你知道卢克德斯宾是谁吗？ 
答：不知道。 
问：在收到这个文件之前，你知道这个破产案件吗？ 
答：知道。 
问：我们可以缩小并滚动到下方。 
问：亚伦·米切尔说了什么？实际上，为什么我不读亚伦·米切尔的回复，你可以读你的。 
答：是的，大约有 1000 人收到了。 
答：听起来很棒。 
问：有些人在战斗。所以如果他们赢了，我们就赢了。 
答：明白。这个我也需要律师吗？ 
问：随你便，但我不会找律师或回应。 
答：明白。 
问：亚伦·米切尔有进一步的回应吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：在收到——在不与律师讨论的情况下，你做了什么？ 
答：我回应了传票。

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问：我们可以放下那个，洛夫特斯女士。 
问：巴克女士，我们讨论了很多人，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：我们还讨论了几个与你工作有关的实体，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你的任何联系人提到过 G/Club实体吗？ 
答：没有。 
费根森律师说：法官大人，我可以稍作停顿吗。 
问：巴克女士，什么是 HUD-1 声明？ 
答：HUD-1 用于办理过户手续。就是在房地产交易中你可以看到所有分配的数字。 
费根森律师说：谢谢。没有其他问题了。 
法官说：交叉询问。 
交叉询问 
由施洛夫律师说： 
问：早上好，巴克女士。 
答：早上好。 
问：巴克女士，你当律师多久了？ 
答：23年。 
问：你说你不是诉讼律师，对吗？ 
答：我不是。 
问：我理解。你的主要业务是房地产，对吗？

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答：是的。 
问：一直都是房地产吗？ 
答：大部分时间是。 
问：公平地说，你的业务最初是在新泽西，然后你搬到了佛罗里达，再搬回新泽西？我的时间顺
序大致正确吗？ 
答：我只持有新泽西和纽约的执照。就个人而言，我们在佛罗里达州做过一两次。 
问：但结果并不理想，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你搬回了新泽西？ 
答：是的。 
问：不幸的是，我想你是在新冠期间搬回新泽西的，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：在新冠期间搬回时，你没有实体办公空间，对吗？ 
答：我通过一个朋友使用了一个办公地址，但我在家里办公。 
问：你能再解释一下最后一句话吗。 
答：我在家里办公。为了安全我不使用那个地址接待客户，但我有一个办公室地址，邮件可以寄
到那里，我也可以去那里，如果需要的话，还可以用作会议室。 
问：所以你使用朋友的办公地址接收邮件，对吗？ 
答：对的。 
问：然后你在家工作？ 
答：对的。

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问：这和我们 90%的人在新冠期间所做的一样，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你有没有什么虚拟办公室，或者你只是用朋友的办公空间？ 
答：只是朋友的。 
问：你作证说你的业务是基于新泽西的，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你提到过，新泽西有一个叫Darlington的县吗？ 
答：我不认为有。 
问：你的业务是以县为基础还是全州范围的？ 
答：全州范围的。 
问：你在直接询问中说你得到了一个叫Dara Lawall的人的推荐，对吗？ 
答：对的。 
问：你之前认识Dara吗？ 
答：我通过共同的朋友认识她。 
问：你和她的联系是多年以前的吗？ 
答：不是的，是我们搬到新泽西 Chester的时候。 
问：所以你重新联系了她，对吗？ 
答：不是的，我们都住在 Chester，所以我们通过共同的朋友认识了。 
问：当你通过共同的朋友认识她时，她——让我收回这个问题。 
她也是律师，对吗？ 
答：对的。

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问：是她给你推荐的，对吗？ 
答：对的。 
问：她是以律师的身份给你推荐的，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：还是她只是因为你们成了朋友而推荐的？ 
答：以律师的身份。 
问：当她给你推荐时，她说她推荐的是��个家庭，对吗？你在直接询问中说过？ 
答：是的，她说他们对她很重要。他们就像家人一样。 
问：我猜她做介绍时，你和她来来回回聊了很久，对吗？ 
答：我确信我们聊了几分钟。 
问：你有没有问她这个家庭是谁？ 
答：当时我可能没有，因为我知道我会在合同上看到。 
问：所以你没有问她她是怎么认识这个家庭的，对吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：你没有问她认识这个家庭多久了，对吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：你已经告诉我你没有问这个家庭的名字，对吗？ 
答：对的。 
问：你意识到这是关于一个特定房产的推荐，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你知道那个房产的名字是什么，这样我可以用同样的名字提到它？

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答：Crocker Mansion。 
问：所以你知道那个房产是 Crocker Mansion，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你也知道 Crocker Mansion已经上市至少十年了，对吗？ 
答：我其实不知道。 
问：你知道它上市多久了吗？ 
答：我没有看。 
问：如果你没有看也没关系。我的问题是，你有没有通过其他方式知道它上市多久了？ 
答：我在与亚伦·米切尔的一次对话中了解到它已经有一段时间了，因为价格有所下调。 
问：价格下调很大，对吗？ 
答：对的。 
问：最初的价格是 3900万？ 
答：这是我在 Zillow上看到的。 
问：然后它降到了 2600万，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：据你所说，在出售房产的价格问题上有很多来回讨论？ 
答：当时我没有参与。看起来双方在谈判。 
问：我知道你没有参与。当你参与时，销售已经完成了？ 
答：价格已经定了，是的。 
问：你知道卖方对销售有紧迫感，对吗？ 
答：对的。

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问：实际上，你告诉政府你知道这种紧迫感，但这种紧迫感来自卖方，对吗？ 
答：双方似乎都很急迫。 
问：你没有在与费根森先生会面时说过，你说这种紧迫感来自卖方，对吗？你记得吗？ 
答：我不记得双方和卖方的区别。 
问：让我给你看看 3507-004，看看是否能唤起你的记忆。 
答：好的。 
问：这只给证人、法庭和双方看。 
施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我能请一分钟吗。 
问：这是否让你想起是卖方律师经常联系你？ 
答：关于押金。 
问：对。买方律师从来没有急着联系你，对吗？ 
答：我是买方的律师。 
问：我明白，但买方一方没有人催促你，对吗？ 
答：关于押金，没有。 
问：卖方律师联系你的次数，你记得有多少次吗，是“她”还是“他”？ 
答：是“他”。 
问：他联系你有多少次？ 
答：我不记得，几次。 
问：几次，对吗？ 
答：我相信是的。

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问：你可以放下那个。现在，巴克女士，可以说你和——你也记得——让我回顾一下。你是否还
记得，你还告诉过政府，圣诞节前是成交的最后期限，是卖方促使了这种紧迫感。你还记得是在
圣诞节前吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你也知道，鉴于你的工作，你知道这个房产本身很老，对吗？ 
答：我不知道庄园的年龄，但从发票来看，似乎需要很多工作。 
问：你在与费根森先生会面时告诉过他这些，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你告诉他，你的印象是这个房产需要很多承包商来施工，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：需要支付很多承包商，对吗？ 
答：一开始我只支付了一些。随着时间的推移，我支付了很多。 
问：供应商也是如此，对吗？ 
答：对的。 
问：一开始只有几个，然后你支付了很多？ 
答：是的。 
问：现在，你被反复问到你理解的家庭是什么意思，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
费根森律师说：反对。 
法官说：反对无效。 
问：你有一次知道买家将是一个 SP，对吗？

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答：这是合同上的名字。 
问：你能告诉我们合同的全名是什么吗？ 
答：Taurus Fund SP。 
问：当你看到 Taurus Fund SP时，你认为“SP”代表什么？ 
答：在我的世界里，立刻想到的是独资经营。 
问：当你看到这个时，它是否提醒你新泽西有不同的规定，不允许这样做？ 
答：我可以立即向产权公司确认。 
问：对，因为这是你的工作，对吗？你然后告诉米切尔先生，这在新泽西行不通，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你知道米切尔先生是否熟悉这些房地产法律吗？ 
答：我不知道他的背景。 
问：那是因为你真的很了解他的妻子，对吗？ 
答：我根本不熟悉他们的工作，因为他们推荐了其他事给我。我知道他们的业务主要是商业诉
讼，他们做了一些住宅房地产，但我不知道复杂程度如何。 
问：你的印象是这是一个丈夫和妻子各自有独立业务，还是他们一起处理同样的事情？ 
答：他们组成一个事务所。我不知道他们是否分开处理业务。 
问：你不知道他们一个是刑事律师，另一个是房地产律师？ 
答：不知道。 
问：你记得你与亚伦·米切尔谈话时他告诉你并与你讨论过新中国联邦的话题吗？ 
答：我记得他说的是中国联邦党，但我不记得确切的名字。 
问：抛开名字的准确性不谈，你记得今天坐在这里的米切尔先生和你谈论过这个，对吗？

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 69 / 161页 
答：是的。 
问：可以说这不是你感兴趣的领域，所以你没有跟进他们？ 
答：不是。 
问：而且这仍然不是你感兴趣的领域，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：后来你开始主要和米切尔先生一起处理这件事，对吗？ 
答：是的，在我和 Dara的初步对话之后，我们没有讨论 Taurus Fund。 
问：当你与米切尔先生交谈时，他有没有提到 NDA？ 
答：从一开始他就提到了。 
问：这是一份保密协议，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：可以说他给了你一份书面的保密协议模板，对吗？ 
答：是的，他给了我一个表格。 
问：像一个模板，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你用过那个模板吗？ 
答：我审查过，但签署的保密协议是寄给我的，所以我通常不处理它们。我有各种供应商或承包
商的副本。 
问：如果一个供应商要在物业上进行交付，不是你的责任确保签署了保密协议。你检查它是否已
签署？ 
答：我会问他们是否有。收集信息是别人的责任。

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 70 / 161页 
问：当你开始处理这个物业时，是哪一年哪一个月？对不起，我忘了。 
答：2021年 12 月。 
问：在 2021年 12 月，米切尔先生是否和你谈过物业的安全问题？ 
答：当我们最初谈话时，由于我没有——每个公司或实体都有人员，所以你通常有名字。当我问
到名字时，以便我知道客户背后的人是谁，我没有得到。他说他们非常关心安全和隐私。所以从
一开始，我就假设，像我说的那样，这是一个名人或高净值个人，让他们感到安全、安全并尽可
能不公开他们的信息是非常重要的。 
问：当他，我指的是米切尔先生，跟你谈论新中国联邦时，你没有问他这是否与那个财产有关，
对吗？ 
答：在我收到第一张传票时提到过。 
问：不，我不是在问传票的事。 
答：对不起，你能再问一遍吗？ 
问：当然可以。当米切尔先生第一次提到新中国联邦时，你没有问过那个财产是否会用于新中国
联邦，对吗？ 
答：我没有。 
问：当你们谈论物业的安全时，你理解米切尔先生在谈论物业的物理安全，对吗？ 
答：对的。 
问：而且物业的物理安全包括物业的外围，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：包括物业内部的安全，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：巴克女士，你曾实际访问过这个物业吗？ 
答：没有。

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问：你没有去看看它是什么样子，对吗？ 
答：我本来很想参观，但我没有。没有人给我安排。 
问：所以当你作证关于所有这些发票时，你不知道货物在实际位置是如何运输的，对吗？你只是
在处理文件，对吗？ 
答：对的。我没有在那里看到物业。 
问：现在，我要回到 Barnett先生身上，但 Barnett先生也是讨论物理安全的人之一，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：你的证词是你不太了解 Barnett先生，还是你很了解他？ 
答：我根本不认识他。 
问：你知道他是否是前纽约警察局的成员吗？ 
答：他在我们的一个谈话中告诉我他是退休警察。 
问：他经常谈论当警察的事情吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：他告诉你他在设施里的角色是什么吗？ 
答：他说他负责安全系统，他是我最初联系发票的人，直到他忙不过来。 
问：他谈到过安全系统是什么吗？ 
费根森律师说：反对传闻。 
法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。 
答：没有。 
问：他没有告诉你。好的。让我转到另一个话题。好的。 
你记得政府给你看了几张涉及 LaBarbiera Custom Homes的发票，对吗？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 72 / 161页 
答：是的。 
问：那家公司有一个名叫Vinny的联系人，对吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：可以说你知道 Vinny在出售给 Taurus S，LLP之前在那个物业上工作了很多年，对吗？ 
答：我不知道是否如此。 
问：你知道 LaBarbiera Custom House之前是否在该物业上工作过吗？ 
答：什么时候之前？ 
问：在你出现之前？ 
答：我不知道。 
问：你曾与这个名叫Vinny的人谈过吗？ 
答：有的。 
问：他有没有告诉你他在那个物业上工作了很多年？ 
答：他没有提到。 
问：他用英语和你说话吗？ 
答：是的。 
问：他没有用普通话和你说话，对吗？ 
答：我不会说普通话。 
问：你曾见过他本人吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：你曾与他 Zoom会议过吗？ 
答：没有。

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问：你记得和他讨论过需要对物业进行的装修，包括车库的装修吗？ 
答：我收到了他的装修发票，他一开始也代表他的分包商收款，直到我直接支付给他们。 
问：所以可以说，当你收到发票时，你没有评估——你没有对发票本身进行任何评估，对吗？ 
答：我做了评估，如果是分期合同，并且有几次付款，我会确保我支付的是应该支付的，而不是
重复的，确保工作在我支付之前完成，但这就是我审查的范围。 
问：如果 Vinny重复计费，你不会检查，对吗？ 
费根森律师说：推测。 
施洛夫律师说：我在问她是否会检查。 
法官说：所以问题是你是否检查了他的账单。 
问：你检查了他的账单吗？ 
答：我检查了。 
法官说：现在是 11点 30分，我们要休息一下。陪审团成员们，请记住你们不能在自己
之间讨论案件。不要允许任何人在你们面前讨论它。不要阅读、听取或观看任何涉及此案的任何
来源的内容。 
法庭书记员说：陪审团退庭。 
法官说：巴克女士，你可以出去。不要讨论你的证词。 
（陪审团不在场） 
法官说：你可以坐下。我们中午再开庭之前有什么事情吗？ 
费根森律师说：政府没有。 
施洛夫律师说：法官大人，只有一件事。辩护方已经向政府提供了通过巴克女士引入的
辩方证据。这些是根据巴克有限责任公司账户提供的相同文件。如果政府想同意这些证据的入
证，这会让交叉询问进行得更快。 
费根森律师说：我们没有被告知他们试图通过巴克女士引入的任何证据。

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法官说：所以你们在休息期间解决这个问题。 
费根森律师说：谢谢，法官大人。 
（休息） 
 
下午会议开始，时间：12:00 
 
（陪审团不在场） 
法官说：请坐。12号陪审员告诉我的工作人员，他想和我谈一个日程安排问题。所以你
能否带他进来。 
（陪审员在场） 
法官说：请坐在第一个座位上。你可以坐下。你是 12号陪审员，对吗？ 
陪审员说：是的。 
法官说：有什么问题？ 
陪审员说：我是一个小型非营利组织的执行董事。我们人手不足。 
法官说：请大声一点。 
陪审员说：我们人手不足。我们在财年的末尾，有很多事情在进行。其中一件事是我们
要在 6 月 30 日前搬离我们的一个办公室。那��租约的最后期限。我们一直未能与房东谈妥任何
事情，我担心他会把我们锁在外面 。如果法庭能介入，以便我们得到延期，这样我可以继续？我
完全致力于此，但——我不想被锁在外面。我们有客户的机密记录和—— 
法官说：你有律师吗？ 
陪审员说：有。 
法官说：你的律师正在处理房东的事情吗？ 
陪审员说：目前还没有，但我可以打电话给他——

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法官说：所以我的第一个建议是你和你的律师谈谈。也许你可以得到延期。 
陪审员说：我试图与他谈判，他想让我留下并签订长期租约。但我们不会那样做。 
法官说：所以你在寻找一个短期延期。 
陪审员说：一个短期延期；一个月，也许两个月。甚至不到。 
法官说：这似乎是你的律师能够做到的事情，所以我建议你和律师谈谈，看看是否可
行。你可以今天下午打电话给他或她。如果你不能得到延期，会发生什么？ 
陪审员说：他可能会把我们锁在外面。他无论如何都想要租金。我担心的是记录，我们
正试图在他把我们锁在外面之前移走所有记录。 
法官说：所以这对你作为陪审员的角色有什么影响吗？ 
陪审员说：如果我们被锁在外面，我们什么也做不了，那我就在这里等到我们结束。 
法官说：所以基本上你的请求是我是否可以介入这个问题。 
陪审员说：对。 
法官说：我希望我能。但因为这是你的组织和房东之间的私人事务，我无权介入，所以
很遗憾给你这个消息，祝你好运。 
陪审员说：好的。谢谢。谢谢，法官大人。 
法官说：好的。 
（陪审员不在场） 
法官说：请把所有陪审员带出来。 
（陪审团在场） 
法官说：你可以继续作证。请坐。巴克女士，请记住你仍然在宣誓中。你可以继续提
问。 
由辩方施洛夫律师继续询问：

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问：巴克女士，对不起。我不太确定我们在哪里结束的。但我要继续谈论保密协议，好吗？ 
答：好的。 
问：你是否保留了一份已经签署并寄回给你的保密协议的文件，还是只是确认它们已签署？ 
答：我保留了一份文件。我有一个保存了每个承包商或供应商的文件夹。 
问：是否可以说你没有 Barnett先生的保密协议？ 
答：我不记得有。 
问：你有周女士的保密协议吗？ 
答：我不记得有她的保密协议。 
问：你记得有曹先生的保密协议吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：那 Sean Jing呢？ 
答：我不记得有。 
问：好的。你知道 Sean Jing在 G Club 工作吗？ 
答：不知道。 
问：你问过他在哪里工作吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：你知道曹先生在哪里工作吗？ 
答：不知道。 
问：你问过他吗？ 
答：我从未和他说过话。 
问：你和他发过邮件吗？

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答：是的。 
问：你在邮件中问过他在哪里工作吗？ 
答：没有。 
问：现在关于 Barnett特先生，你作证说他一度总是你的第一联系人，对吗？   
答：对。   
问：我不确定我是否记得正确。你是否曾亲自见过他本人？   
答：没有。   
问：可以说政府向你展示了不少来自 Barnett特先生的文件，对吗？是来自 Barnett特先生的电子
邮件交流，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：他们有时会为你标出他使用的不同电子邮件地址，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：今天坐在这里，你知道 Barnett特先生有多少个电子邮件地址吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：你知道他是否有一个叫 [email protected]的电子邮件地址吗？   
答：那是我主要与他往来的地址。   
问：费根森先生在这里为你标出了他使用的一个 GS电子邮件地址，对吗？   
答：对。   
问：你知道他是否还有其他地址吗？   
答：我不记得了。

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问：当你收到来自 Barnett特先生不同电子邮件的邮件地址时，你假设都是同一个 Barnett特先
生，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你没有回信问，这是哪位 Barnett特先生，对吗？   
答：没有。   
问：好的。现在可以说，巴克女士，在你的工作过程中，你从未认为自己在做任何不当的事情，
对吗？   
答：对。   
问：今天坐在这里，你仍然不认为自己在做任何不当的事情，对吗？   
答：对。   
问：你收到了发票，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你检查以确保有人在发票上授权付款，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：然后你处理发票，对吗？   
答：首先我会口头确认汇款指示。   
问：对，这是你需要做的，对吗？   
答：对。   
问：实际上你非常勤奋；你总是在邮件中写明“请口头确认”，对吗？   
答：是的，为了防止电汇欺诈的问题。   
问：对，它们都会口头确认，对吗？

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答：全部都确认了。   
问：对。如果没有口头确认，你不会处理付款，对吗？   
答：对。   
问：实际上你非常勤奋，你还保留了一个 Excel表，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你是否与其他人分享过这个 Excel表，比如 Scott Barnett特或其他人？   
答：是的，与授权人员分享，包括 Scott Barnett特、肖恩·京、Gladys周，当然还有亚伦·米切
尔。   
问：对，从未出现问题；没有人提出过什么没有支付或者某个数字被夸大的问题，对吗？   
答：有时会有些问题。如果发票已支付但电汇未完成，取决于时间；有时会被延迟，比如在云端
中，他们看不到它们，但——我不认为我支付的有任何问题。   
问：对。他们对你总体上很满意，对吗？   
答：我没听到过抱怨。   
问：很好。好的。那么，让我稍微具体地引导你注意到一些你被展示的文件，好吗？或许我可以
在没有文件的情况下问你一些问题。政府向你展示了公司注册证书和内华达州的文件，对吗？   
答：是公司的组织章程文件，对。   
问：对，这没什么不寻常的，对吗？   
答：那是该州的备案副本，是的。   
问：对，他们可以在内华达州或缅因州开设公司，对吗？   
答：他们可以在任何地方开设实体。   
问：对，他们告诉你在哪里开设实体，对吗？   
答：我可以在组织章程文件上看到。是在内华达州。

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问：对，但，是他们将文件发给你的，对吗？   
答：对。不是我成立的它。   
问：对，你没有问题；你没有问他们为什么选内华达州或者为什么选择这个州，对吗？   
费根森律师说：反对，形式问题。多个问题。 
法官说：请你分解一下问题。   
问：你有问过他们为什么选内华达州吗？   
答：问过。我再次问了亚伦，因为通常与新泽西的交易中时是新泽西的有限责任公司。如果你想
用不同的州也不奇怪，但我们也面临年底的时间压力，他说这只是一个隐私层——   
问：好的。   
答：——为了客户。   
问：对。当他回答你的问题时，你觉得他的回答合适吗？   
答：合适。   
问：好的。现在你被展示了一份文件，编号是 1295。我可以把它调出来给你看。这是你发给亚
伦·米切尔的邮件，对吗？你在其中列出了你的代表条件？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。上面的地址是他的律师事务所地址，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。这是你和将要为之工作的人之间设立协议的简单方法，对吗？   
答：这是为了记录持续的代理关系，因为我签署的内容和我们实际做的内容不一样，所以我想记
录下我们今后要做的事情。   
问：好的。米切尔先生收到了这封邮件并回复了你，对吗？   
答：是的。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 81 / 161页 
问：好的。他有没有告诉你预算是多少，以便你可以相应地计划？   
答：没有。   
问：好的。你有跟进过他吗？   
答：有。   
问：好的。你还被问到一些你支付的款项， 
施洛夫律师说：你可以把它放下来，谢谢 
问：你被展示了一组发票，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。其中一些发票是一个叫 Gladys周的人发的，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：她在邮件中署名为项目经理，对吗？   
答：这是她邮件中的署名，是的。   
问：对。你有没有问过她管理的项目是什么？   
答：没有。   
问：你知道项目的名称吗？   
答：不知道。   
问：让我给你看一下政府标记为 822 的文件。这是证物 822。   
施洛夫律师说：我们可以往下滚动一下吗？   
问：我想政府关注的是第 7页，对吗？第 7 和第 8页？你记得看过这份文件吗？   
施洛夫律师说：我们只停留在第一页。   
问：女士，你记得这份文件吗？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 82 / 161页 
答：记得。   
问：好的。上面写着在以下区域提供拆除工作，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你能读一下下面写的内容吗？   
答：“二层女主人们翼。”   
问：对，是复数形式的女士吗？   
答：是的。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。我们可以翻到下一页吗？   
问：你看到顶部写着“三层儿子们翼”，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你知道这个被问询的家庭只有一个儿子吗？   
答：我不知道这个家庭的任何情况。   
问：在你代理期间，你知道是否有一个儿子住在美国吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：好的。文件上还提到，将二层卧室浴室改为洗衣房，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你知道这是什么意思吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：好的。我不想逐一详细讨论这些内容， 
但我们都不知道——好吧，不说我们了。你不知道这意味着什么，当它说“天花板要锯开以接收 7
个吊灯位置，正好是居中于现有拱形结构”时，对吗？不知道？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 83 / 161页 
答：我不知道。   
施洛夫律师说：我们可以继续往下滚动这个文件。继续往下。   
问：你看到那里写着“三层女儿侧翼”，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你已经说过你不知道他有没有女儿，但当它写着“标记的墙要移除”时，这对你意味着什么？   
费根森律师说：反对，形式问题，而且她没说过这个。   
法官说：反对成立。证人没有说过这个。   
问：你知道这个家庭有没有女儿吗？   
答：我不知道。 
问：谢谢。那些标记的要移除的墙是什么？   
答：我不知道。我没有施工图纸。   
问：标记的开口是什么？   
答：通常它们会在施工图纸上，我没有见过。   
问：好的。你知道是否有施工图纸吗？   
答：我不知道有没有。   
问：然后这里提到“新的隔墙要用石膏板和腻子封闭”，对吗？   
答：是的，这是上面写的。   
问：我想你也不明白这是什么意思，对吗？   
答：对，不明白。   
施洛夫律师说：好的，我们继续往下滚动。继续往下。再下一页。最后一页。   
问：这个文件告诉你有一个总合同价，对吗？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 84 / 161页 
答：是的。   
问：然后它告诉你定金金额和中期付款，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：页没有完成前的余额计算。   
答：对。   
问：好的，这些只是你要处理的文件；你不会质疑账单是否合适，对吗？   
费根森律师说：反对，形式问题。   
法官说：请你分解问题。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。你知道吗，没关系。 
我撤回这个问题。我们可以继续下一个文件。让我们看看文件 168。   
施洛夫律师继续问：所以可以说你从拉巴比埃拉那里收到的账单通常有相同的格式，对吗？   
答：对于这个合同，我做了分期付款，但对于其他发票，他有包含分包商，所以它们看起来不
同。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。我们可以翻到这个特定文件的下一页吗？再下一页。再下一页。
好的，就在这里。   
问：好的。你看到这些附加条款了吗？   
答：看到了。   
问：好的。这些条款是你拟定的，还是由这两个之间——Taurus Fund和拉巴比埃拉定制房屋公
司——拟定的？   
答：对于这个特定合同，我不记得直��与承包商打交道，所以我给了亚伦或 Scott Barnett特一些
合同条款的建议。我不记得是哪个人了。   
问：好的。你是通过电话给他们这些建议，还是通过邮件？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 85 / 161页 
0-答：我通过邮件给他们。   
问：好的。你知道他们是否采纳了你的建议吗？如果你不记得也没关系。   
答：我在读它们。我——我不记得这些是我的话还是亚伦的。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。让我们看看政府证物 851。请把中间部分，即 12:33 p.m.放大。   
问：你知道 Prevenitas是什么吗？   
答：那是我收到发票的一家公司，看起来是——用于安保设备的。   
问：好的。那 New York Business Systems呢？   
答：我不记得了。   
问：好的。那Monster Air Heating and Cooling呢？   
答：暖通空调设备。   
问：好的。剩下的费用似乎很明显，但你具体记得它们是用来做什么的吗？   
答：对不起，你能重复一下吗？   
问：我说剩下的三笔付款——Fine Rugs, RDM Fine Art, 和 Fine Rugs——看起来很明显，但你
记得它们是用来做什么的吗？   
答：用于地毯和精美艺术品。我不记得具体的了。   
问：好的。这封邮件是你发的，你在通知 Gladys，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：Scott和 Gladys，对吗？   
答：对。   
问：你通过 hchktech.com联系 Gladys，对吗？   
答：是的。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 86 / 161页 
问：通过 frontsight1@outlook联系 Scott Barnett特，对吗？   
答：对。   
问：当你用这个邮箱地址给巴克女士女士发邮件时，你当时对这个邮箱地址感到困惑吗？   
答：我没多想。我假设她可能是一个独立承包商，有自己的公司。   
问：好的。今天坐在这里，你仍然不知道其他情况，对吗？   
答：我不知道任何关于它的情况。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。我们继续，如果可以的话，看看 709号证物。好的，请把这个文
件放大一些。   
问：政府给你展示了这个文件，对吗？   
答：对。 
问：你在直接询问中作证说你不知道谁住在康涅狄格州格林威治塔科尼克路 373号，对吗？   
答：对。   
问：可以说吗，今天坐在这里，你仍然不知道谁住在那里，对吗？   
答：我不知道谁住在那里。   
问：好的。我们来看一下，顶部的日期是 2022年 1 月 18日，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：可以说你处理了不止一张这样的发票，对吗？   
答：我相信有更多来自 Flat Rate的发票，是的。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。让我们继续往下滚动。   
问：好的，这一张的金额是多少？   
答：118,000美元。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 87 / 161页 
施洛夫律师说：好的，我们继续往下滚动。好，让我们看一下运送的物品，好吗？请放
大一些。   
问：我不会让你逐一阅读这些项目，但你知道这些物品从哪里来的吗？   
答：我没想过。   
问：好的。但是现在看这个文件，你能说出它们从哪里来吗？   
答：看起来它们是从 373 Taconic Road搬来的。   
问：好的。所以当你看这个文件和清单时，你不能判断这些物品是从康涅狄格的地址购买的并运
送的，还是——   
费根森律师说：反对，形式问题。   
施洛夫律师说：我还没问完，但我可以再试一次。   
法官说：继续。   
问：——它们原本是在康涅狄格的家中然后被运送的了吗？   
费根森律师说：反对问题形式。   
法官说：所以——   
费根森律师说：这个问题很混乱。   
法官说：你需要分解一下。   
问：你知道客厅里的那个超大柜子是什么时候购买的吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：看第三侧，书桌椅，你知道它是购买的还是只是康涅狄格的家中的旧家具被运到这里的吗？   
费根森律师说：反对，形式问题。   
法官说：所以你是问她是否通过她参与的系统购买的，还是是否曾经购买过？问题是什
么？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 88 / 161页 
施洛夫律师说：好的，我再试一次，法官大人，抱歉。   
施洛夫律师继续问： 
问：你不知道那张书桌椅是康涅狄格的家中的旧家具被运到新泽西的，对吗？   
答：我对那张椅子一无所知。   
问：对。所以你甚至不知道，例如——   
施洛夫律师说：继续往下滚动。   
费根森律师说：问过并回答了。她不知道。   
施洛夫律师说：我还没问完这个问题。请继续往下滚动。就在这里。   
问：你看到卧室三里的大橱柜吗？今天坐在这里，你不知道那橱柜在搬运时里面是否有东西，对
吗？   
答：我对它一无所知。   
问：好的。你也不知道，例如左侧的小边桌里是否有文件，对吗？   
答：我对它一无所知。   
问：好的。可以说你对这些运送的物品一无所知，对吗？   
答：我完全不知道 
问：那是因为这根本不是你的工作，对吗？你的工作只是支付已授权付款的发票。   
答：你没有问我问题。   
问：哦，对不起。你的工作只是支付已授权付款的发票，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。你收到了摄影设备的发票，对吗？   
答：我相信是的。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 89 / 161页 
问：你收到了照明设备的发票，对吗？   
答：是的，照明设备。   
问：好的。你也处理了这些发票，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：现在让我给你看一下标记为辩方证物 60613 的文件。你认得这个文件吗？   
答：认得。   
问：好的。   
施洛夫律师说：法官大人，辩方请求将辩方证物 60613 作为证据提交。   
费根森律师说：没有异议，法官大人。   
法官说：批准。   
（辩方证物 60613被接纳到证据集）   
问：你是否审阅过这个提案？   
施洛夫律师说：哦，对不起。我能展示给陪审团看吗？我总是忘记这个。   
问：你审阅过这个文件吗？   
答：你能展示其他页面吗？我——我不记得。 
问：当然，当然。所以我们慢一点。   
施洛夫律师说：我们可以翻回一页吗？   
问：你看到顶部写着“提供视频监控”，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。再前一页是“安全运营中心的好处”，对吗？   
答：是的。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 90 / 161页 
问：好的。可以说你没有询问过安全运营中心是什么，对吗？   
答：我没有。   
问：好的。让我们看看最后一页。你记得你对这个文件做了什么吗？   
答：我把它保存到了我的系统里。   
问：你记得是否对此进行了付款吗？   
答：我向 Prevenitas进行了几次付款，但不记得是否是针对这个提案。   
问：好的。那么我们看看下一个，这是 60614号文件，这是辩方证物 60614。你记得收到这个文
件吗？   
法官说：接纳为证据。   
（辩方证物 60614被接纳到证据集）   
施洛夫律师说：谢谢，法官大人。   
问：你记得收到这个文件吗？   
答：我相信是的，我收到了这个文件。   
问：你看到旁边的金额了吗？我不会让你读出来，但你看到它们了吗？   
答：看到了。 
问：好的，总金额是 392,000 多，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你知道是否支付了它；不是你。对不起，我知道你没有支付这些账单。你授权了付款。   
答：是的。我不记得具体金额，但我确实向 Prevenitas进行了几次付款。   
问：好的，谢谢。   
施洛夫律师说：我们可以把这个拿下来，转到 60618号文件。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 91 / 161页 
问：你可以读一下——   
费根森律师说：如果这是要提交的，法官大人，我们不反对接纳。   
法官说：这是哪一个？   
施洛夫律师说：60618号，法官大人。   
法官说：接纳为证据。   
（辩方证物 60618 被接纳到证据集）   
施洛夫律师继续问：   
问：我会很简短。这讨论的是威胁和漏洞评估，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：它是同一份列在顶部的 Taurus Fund有限公司的物业，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。它是针对 Scott Barnett特的，对吗？   
答：是的。   
施洛夫律师说：好的，我们可以把这个拿下来。转到 60620号文件。假设政府没有异
议，法官大人，我们请求将其作为证据提交。   
费根森律师说：如果他们能先展示给各方看，让我们看到。   
法官说：展示一下。   
费根森律师说：没有异议，法官大人。谢谢。   
法官说：接纳为证据。   
（辩方证物 60620被接纳到证据集）   
施洛夫律师继续问：

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 92 / 161页 
问：你认得这个文件，对吗？   
答：认得。   
问：好的。你知道这个金额是否已支付吗？   
答：这是我在底部的手写，所以这可能是更大支付总额的一部分，这是我的猜测。我需要查看我
的记录，但这笔款项已支付。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。如果可以，我想把它缩小一些。   
问：我假设你不知道什么是摄像头喷粉或其他这些费用，对吗？它们似乎只是与安全摄像头有
关？   
答：对，我不知道他们是一种还是另外一种 
问：谢谢。   
施洛夫律师说：我能展示 60621给政府律师、证人和法庭看吗？   
费根森律师说：没有异议，法官大人。 
法官说：接纳为证据。   
（辩方证物 60621被接纳到证据集）   
问：政府在与你会面准备时有没有展示这个文件给你看？   
答：我不特别记得这个文件。   
施洛夫律师说：好的，你可以把这个拿下来。如果可以的话，请同样展示 60623。假设
政府没有异议，我们请求将 60623 作为证据提交。   
费根森律师说：没有异议，法官大人。   
法官说：接纳为证据。   
（辩方证物 60623被接纳到证据集）   
施洛夫律师继续问：

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 93 / 161页 
问：你在与费根森先生会面时有讨论过这个文件吗？   
答：我不特别记得讨论过这个文件。   
问：我假设你不知道他们最终使用了哪种创新技术，但一旦获得授权你就支付了账单，对吗？   
费根森律师说：反对问题形式。 
法官说：所以这是两个问题合在一起了。   
施洛夫律师说：我很乐意拆开问——   
法官说：请分开问。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。   
问：这个文件的标题是什么？   
答：这是一个安全摄像头监控系统安装提案。   
问：日期是什么时候？   
答：2022年 1 月 29 日。   
施洛夫律师说：请问，萨拉查先生，能帮我滚动一下页面吗？   
问：这是什么图像？   
答：上面写着“物业概览”。   
问：好的。你知道这指的是哪处物业吗？   
答：如果你看第一页，我认为是克罗克庄园的地址。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。我们翻到第 3页。第 4页。第 5页。有第 6页吗？没有。好的，
第 5页是最后一页。   
问：这是项目总费用，对吗？   
答：是的。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 94 / 161页 
问：我假设你不记得你是否和费根森先生讨论过这个文件。   
答：我不特别记得讨论过这个文件。   
问：好的。你记得这个金额是否已支付吗？   
答：这个金额我不特别记得。我向 Prevenitas 支付了几笔款项。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。我们看看 60625号文件，还是辩方证物。   
问：这是什么，女士？   
答：这是 Scott Barnett特发给我的一封邮件。   
问：好的。我们是否可以——   
费根森律师说：对不起，这是要展示给陪审团看吗？   
陪审员说：没有。   
费根森律师说：好的。抱歉。我没有反对接纳这个文件。   
法官说：接纳为证据。   
（辩方证物 60625 被接纳到证据集）   
施洛夫律师说：现在我们可以展示给陪审团看吗？   
法官说：继续。   
施洛夫律师继续问：   
问：上面写着“艾米，这是一张发票的照片”，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。他有没有附上一张发票给你？   
答：我相信他附上了，但我不特别记得。   
问：好的。你今天坐在这里，你也不记得你是否实际支付了那张发票，对吗？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 95 / 161页 
答：我甚至不记得那是什么。   
问：好吧。那么让我们展示 60624号文件。   
施洛夫律师说：请不要展示给陪审团看，萨拉查先生。谢谢。我们只为证人和法庭及各
方滚动一下。   
问：你记得这个文件及其附件吗？   
答：看起来很熟悉，是的。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。我们请求将 60624号文件作为证据提交。   
费根森律师说：没有异议。   
法官说：接纳为证据。   
（辩方证物 60624被接纳到证据集）   
问：在这个文件中，他附上了来自 Prevenitas的信息，对吗？   
答：是的。   
施洛夫律师说：我们可以展示给陪审团看并往下滚动。谢谢。   
问：让我展示标记为 60626 的证物。请问你认得——   
施洛夫律师说：乔治，不要展示给陪审团，谢谢。   
问：巴克女士，你认得这个文件吗？   
答：我不特别记得，但看起来很熟悉，如果这样说合理的话。   
问：它是发给你的吗？   
答：是的。   
问：是来自你认得的电子邮件地址吗？   
答：是的。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 96 / 161页 
施洛夫律师说：好的，辩方请求将 60626 作为证据提交。   
法官说：没有异议吗？   
费根森律师说：稍等一下，法官大人。没有异议，法官大人。   
法官说：接纳为证据。   
（辩方证物 60626被接纳到证据集）   
施洛夫律师说：那么我们看看这个文件。   
施洛夫律师继续问：   
问：你能告诉陪审团 B&H是什么吗？   
答：我相信那是公司的名字。我不记得了。   
问：文件剩余部分告诉你这是什么公司吗？   
答：你想让我读出来吗？   
问：请读。   
答：广播设备。   
施洛夫律师说：我们看看这个文件的第二页。如果能放大给陪审团看。我们往下移动。   
问：你收到了这个特定文件，对吗？   
答：我相信是的。   
施洛夫律师说：我们回到上面一点。   
问：上面很清楚地告诉你，对吗，卖给 Gladys——   
费根森律师说：反对这种描述，法官大人。   
法官说：请只陈述文字内容，不要做解释。   
问：这个文件告诉读者设备是卖给 Gladys周的，对吗？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 97 / 161页 
答：是的。 
问：6628 Sky Point Drive，拉斯维加斯，内华达州 89141，对吗？   
答：对。   
问：然后它告诉你这些物品要运到哪里，对吗？   
答：对。   
问：这个日期是 2022年 6 月 1 日。   
答：是的。   
问：没有人隐藏任何地址，对吗？   
费根森律师说：反对。   
法官说：你是在问她是否可以从文件上看出有什么被隐藏吗？   
施洛夫律师说：是的。   
法官说：请回答。   
答：我只是看文件的表面。我不知道其他情况。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。让我们继续往下滚动。   
问：你能从顶部的标题看出是谁生成了这个文件吗？   
答：我认为是 B&H Photo-Video。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。我们看看最后一页。   
问：总金额是 67,416.73美元，对吗？   
答：对。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。最后一个证据是 60628。其实没关系，我觉得我们已经有足够的
了。我撤回最后一个。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 98 / 161页 
问：巴克女士，费根森先生在这里问了你关于你文件夹里的文件，对吗？   
答：对。   
问：你知道这个文件夹是如何创建的吗？   
答：我不明白这个问题。   
问：好的，我再试一次。   
答：好的。   
问：你知道他是如何选择这些文件的吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：他有没有和你分享他的过程？   
答：没有。   
问：好的。他给了你一组文件，然后你们两个一起审阅了，对吗？   
答：他给了我文件夹让我审阅，然后走出了房间。   
问：好的。然后你坐下来看了这些文件，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：然后你和他讨论了这些文件，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。你和我从未见过面讨论任何文件，对吗？   
答：没有。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。给我一分钟。   
问：你被政府展示了 709号文件，对吗？如果可以，我把它调出来给你看。我们之前看过这个文
件。你记得 Barnett特先生在这件事中的角色是什么吗，如果他有角色的话？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 99 / 161页 
答：我不记得他是否给我发送过这些发票。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。我们可以拿下来看看 1204号文件。   
问：你记得在直接询问时作证过这个文件吗？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。这里政府，费根森先生，让你注意到工作地点是在康涅狄格州，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：好的，这一张的总金额是多少，400美元，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你授权支付了吗？坐在这里，你记得吗？   
答：不特别记得，但我确定我支付了。   
问：好的。你有问过肖恩为什么你要支付 400美元用于康涅狄格州的工作吗？   
答：我没有。   
问：好的。现在看看政府证物 375。政府花了很多时间问你关于这些床垫的事，对吗？   
答：他问了我关于这些床垫的问题，是的。   
问：对。关于它们的颜色，价格，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。你作证说你知道海丝腾床垫，对吗？你知道这家公司吗？   
答：我听说过这个名字，但我不能告诉你从哪里听到的。   
问：好的。可以说政府也问了你关于 Barnett特先生的这个电子邮件地址的问题，对吗？记得他
们让你注意到 GSNYUS.com吗？   
答：是的，他们今天问了我关于这个电子邮件地址的问题。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 100 / 161页 
问：好的。你知道这代表什么吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：你有没有问过 Barnett特先生，嘿，你为什么用这个地址给我发邮件？   
答：我不确定当时是否意识到，但我没有问他。   
问：你也没有问过巴克女士女士，对吗？   
答：没有。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。我们继续往下滚动这个文件。还是 375号，对吗？   
问：我不会详细讨论所有床垫的价格和其他细节，但你作证时详细说明了它们是蓝色还是白色以
及有格子图案，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。你支付了这些床垫的钱是因为你被授权付款，对吗？   
答：是的，我被授权支付这张发票。   
问：好的。你没有质疑为什么要买这些床垫，对吗？   
答：没有，我没有质疑。 
问：你之所以在作证这些床垫的事，是因为费根森先生选择了这个文件并向你提问，对吗？   
答：我不太明白你的问题，抱歉。   
问：你没有选择这个文件来作证，对吗？   
答：对，我没有选择它。   
问：你没有将它标记为一个你觉得奇怪的文件，对吗？   
答：我没有标记任何东西。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。我们继续。现在我们来看政府证物 522。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 101 / 161页 
问：你看到这个文件了吗？   
答：看到了。   
问：你也作证了这个文件，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：有人问了关于不同物品去向的问题，对吗？   
施洛夫律师说：把照片再展示一下，因为你已经在屏幕上展示过了。   
费根森律师说：法官大人，我不确定这是什么。这是证据中的文件吗？   
施洛夫律师说：这是政府的证物。   
法官说：这是哪个证物？   
施洛夫律师说：是W5V.1。是证据中的政府证物。   
施洛夫律师继续问：   
问：你知道这人是谁吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：好的。你认得背景中的黄铜书架吗？   
答：我不认得。   
问：你不能将你在清单上读到的东西与这个黄铜书架匹配，对吗？   
答：我不能匹配，不能。   
问：你不知道这张照片是在新泽西的住宅拍摄的还是别的地方，对吗？   
答：两者我都不知道。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。你可以把这个拿下来。回到 522号证物。   
问：在这封电子邮件的最上部分，对吗？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 102 / 161页 
答：是的。   
问：费根森先生问了你关于钢琴运往纽约办公室的问题，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你知道为什么钢琴要先运到纽约办公室吗？   
答：我没有问。   
问：你知道这是否与保险有关吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：那床垫呢？   
答：没有人跟我讨论过物品的去向或原因。   
问：好的。他们给你发了一封邮件。只要你被授权付款，你就付款了，对吗？   
答：对。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。我们可以把这个拿下来。   
问：你不知道谁住在 3 Columbus Circle，对吗？   
答：我不知道那个地址。   
问：你并不知道一个在东 64街上的地址，对吗？   
答：你能再说一遍吗？对不起。   
问：当然。你知道东 64街上的一个地址有什么意义吗？   
答：我不认得那个地址。   
问：你从未听说过一个叫“联排别墅”的地方，对吗？   
答：我不知道。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 103 / 161页 
问：让我给你看 1275号证物。你记得被问到这个——我不知道怎么发音——Amuneal书架的事
吗？   
答：记得。   
问：好的。你知道什么是 Amuneal书架吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：如果我展示给你看，你能认出它吗？   
答：不能。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。我们可以把这个证物拿下来。请到 1279号证物。谢谢你，乔
治。请滚动下去。再下一页。   
问：你看到这封邮件了吗？   
施洛夫律师说：请放大一点。   
问：你看到这个人了吗？是伊洛娜·穆西亚尔，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：她被解雇了吗？   
答：我被告知她被解雇了，是的。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。你可以把这个拿下来。我们看看 1275号证物。如果可以，请放
大一点。我想我记错号码了。稍等一下，对不起。法官大人，我可能记错了证物编号。请给我一
点时间。   
法官说：继续。   
施洛夫律师说：对不起。我一定是写错了证物编号。   
施洛夫律师继续问：   
问：但是你记得费根森先生问你关于 G Fashion的李安的事吗？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 104 / 161页 
答：记得。   
施洛夫律师说：洛夫特斯女士，你能帮我找到证物编号吗？   
问：你记得就这个文件作证吗？   
答：记得。   
问：你知道李安是谁吗？   
答：不知道。   
问：你知道 G Fashion是什么吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：你知道这家公司今天是否还存在吗？   
答：我不知道。 
问：你有没有在谷歌上搜索过 G Fashion？   
答：没有。   
问：你知道 G Fashion是否在马瓦庄园有某种办公室或空间——   
费根森律师说：反对。   
法官说：她已经作证说她不知道这家公司。   
问：你知道是否有任何公司在 Ramapo 物业有空间并在那工作吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：你知道 G Fashion的衣服是否留在了那座庄园里吗？   
费根森律师说：同样反对。   
法官说：反对有效。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 105 / 161页 
问：现在你作证说费根森先生提出的某些问题让你觉得付款是由 Taurus Fund背后的家庭授权
的。记得吗？   
答：记得。   
问：好的。今天坐在这里，你不知道 Taurus Fund背后是一个家庭还是多个家庭，对吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：对。所以当你说家庭时，你只是用了这个词，对吗？   
答：我与之交谈的人是这样称呼他们的。 
我不知道除此之外的任何信息。   
问：好的。所以你不知道这个所谓的家庭里有多少人，对吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：你知道这是一个联合家庭还是一个核心家庭吗？   
费根森律师说：反对，形式问题。我不确定这是什么意思。   
法官说：我不明白“联合家庭”的意思。   
问：你知道什么是联合家庭吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：好的。可以说一个家庭可以定义为一个小单位与包括所有兄弟姐妹的大家庭，对吗？   
费根森律师说：反对，相关性和知识。   
法官说：或许你可以更具体一点。   
问：在某些文化中，家庭包括所有兄弟、他们的妻子和所有孩子，这是合理的吗？   
费根森律师说：反对，法官大人。她不是文化专家。   
施洛夫律师说：我在问她的理解。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 106 / 161页 
法官说：我想听听她的意见。请继续。   
答：我真的没有意见。所有文化都不同。   
问：有可能，对吗？   
费根森律师说：反对，猜测。   
法官说：不要让她猜测。她已经告诉你所有文化都不同。   
问：你对中国文化熟悉吗？   
答：不熟悉。   
问：你知道中国家庭如何定义家庭吗？   
费根森律师说：反对。她说她不知道。   
法官说：反对有效。   
问：你被问到了一个叫曹的人，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你从未见过这个人，对吗？   
答：对。   
问：你收到过这个人的邮件，对吗？   
答：我是抄送在他写的邮件里，是的。   
问：你有问过他的工作是什么吗？   
答：没有。   
问：你有问过他是为谁工作的吗？   
答：没有。   
问：你作证时提到对 SEC传票感到非常惊慌，对吗？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 107 / 161页 
答：对。   
问：好的。我希望有人告诉你这是一种正常反应。 
但你联系了亚伦·米切尔，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你和米切尔先生有短信交流，对吗？这是短信交流——   
施洛夫律师说：我需要展示证物。我相信是——对不起。是哪一个证物，政府证物编
号？   
问：好的，这是 1290，对吗？   
答：这是我和亚伦的短信交流，是的。   
问：好的。你是绿色的？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。所以你说你在赫尔希，现在不能说话。“我可以稍后打电话给你吗”，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：然后你在 11 月和他交换了短信，对吗？11 月 9 日。   
答：对。   
问：你说你想提前告诉他“我收到了一份信息传票和证言通知”，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：针对 Taurus Fund。   
答：是的。   
问：“我们下巴克女士能聊聊吗？”对吗？   
答：是的，那是我的短信。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 108 / 161页 
问：好的。他建议巴克女士一下午 2点，对吗？   
答：我是绿色的。那是我。   
问：哦，对不起。所以你建议巴克女士一下午 2点。   
答：是的。   
问：你知道你是被 Taurus Fund 通知进行证言吗？   
答：我不相信是的，不。   
问：好的。那么是谁通知你进行证言的？   
答：我不记得了，但这是破产法庭的。 
施洛夫律师说：好的，我们继续往下滚动。不，往上一页。   
问：他写道，“你收到了！谢谢”，对吗？   
答：不，那是我。   
问：还是你？   
答：是的，我是绿色的——哦，我消失了。   
问：中间发生了什么？   
答：我——   
问：我们失去了所有信号。   
施洛夫律师说：法官大人，我认为我们的设备出现了一些技术问题。   
法官说：好的。我们已经给视听部门发了邮件，他们会来处理。你有没有什么问题是可
以不需要屏幕就问的？   
施洛夫律师说：也许洛夫特斯女士可以帮我。非常好，谢谢。   
费根森律师说：你有——我认为是 1290号。好的。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 109 / 161页 
施洛夫律师说：洛夫特斯女士有这个文件。非常感谢你，洛夫特斯女士。   
施洛夫律师继续问：   
问：好的。你看到这里有一个回复说，“好的。打这个电话”，对吗？这是米切尔先生回复给你
的，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：然后你说，“你收到了！谢谢。”对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你无法联系到他，所以你说，“请打电话给我”？   
答：我想是他希望我打他的手机，而不是他的工作号码，所以——   
问：好的。你知道那天他是否在旅行吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：好的。现在蓝色的是谁？   
答：蓝色的是我。   
问：好的。你说，“请尽快打电话给我。谢谢。”对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。他有没有给你打电话？   
答：我认为没有，因为我又发了一条短信。   
问：好的。你发短信给他说，“有空时请打电话给我——想了解一下情况”，对吗？   
答：是的，那是我的短信。   
问：好的。这是否刷新了你的记忆，他在某个时候告诉你他很忙，但会回电话给你？   
费根森律师说：我认为没有记忆丧失的问题，但没关系。

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 110 / 161页 
问：你看到回复说，“有空时请打电话给我”？   
答：是的。   
费根森律师说：那是巴克女士的短信，法官大人，正如她作证的那样。   
法官说：所以你指的是哪一条？是蓝色的那条吗？   
证人说：是的。   
法官说：那么问题是什么？   
施洛夫律师继续问：   
问：我的问题是：你看到第一行，“有空时请打电话给我”，对吗？这句话是否是回复米切尔先生
让你知道他没空讲话？   
答：我认为他没有回复我早些时候的短信，所以我又发了一条短信给他。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。我们继续往下滚动。   
问：你看到政府给你展示了这个文件，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你知道这个文件的标题是什么吗？   
答：太小了看不清。   
问：你对这个文件有任何记忆吗？   
答：我知道那是破产法庭的文件。是动议通知。   
问：对。   
答：你想让我读一下吗？   
问：请读标题。   
答：延长受托人对潜在被告提起诉讼的时间的动议通知。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 111 / 161页 
问：对。那么可以说你是个律师？我收回这句话。你是个律师，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。作为律师，你可以告诉陪审团这是一个延长期限的动议，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：当米切尔先生告诉你他不打算回应这个动议时，这是否告诉你他对延长期限的请求没有异
议？   
费根森律师说：反对，法官大人。   
法官说：反对有效。她不可能知道米切尔先生的心思，他的意思。   
问：这个动议是要求延长期限，对吗？   
费根森律师说：问过并回答过了。   
法官说：反对有效。   
问：你之前的证词是，对于这个首页，米切尔先生的回应是他不打算回应这个动议，对吗？  
答：是的，那是他的短信回复。   
问：好的。今天坐在这里，你知道你是否反对过延长期限吗？   
答：我没有回应这个动议。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。我们继续往下滚动。   
问：然后你和米切尔先生继续互动，对吗？你们继续发短信，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。他说，“是的。大约 1000 人收到了。”对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你认为这是夸张还是事实陈述？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 112 / 161页 
答：我认为这是夸张，意思是很多人收到了。 
问：好的。你回复说，“那听起来太棒了”，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：米切尔先生像很多诉讼律师那样回复说，“有些人在抗争——”   
费根森律师说：反对评论。   
法官说：不要加评论。直接问问题。   
问：他说，“有些人在抗争，所以如果他们赢了，我们就赢了”，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。你说，“明白。我也需要律师吗？”对吗？   
答：对。   
问：他说：“由你决定，但我不会聘请律师或做出回应。”对吗？ 
答：是的，那是他的短信。   
问：在这段交流中唯一的文件是一份延长期限的动议，对吗？   
答：是的。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。我们滚动到文件的末尾。   
问：这是文件的末尾，对吗？   
答：是的。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。我们可以把这个拿下来。   
问：你还作证了你与亚伦·米切尔先生的另一段对话，对吗？你们谈论了——他和你谈到了做生意
的成本，对吗？   
答：是的。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 113 / 161页 
问：你作证说米切尔先生告诉你政府不喜欢这个家庭，对吗？   
答：他说过类似的话，是的。   
问：对。他没有详细说明是哪个政府，对吗？   
答：没有。   
问：他没有告诉你是否是美国政府，对吗？   
答：对。   
问：他没有告诉你是否是中国共产党，对吗？   
答：对。   
问：他没有告诉你为什么政府不喜欢这个家庭，对吗？   
答：我不记得他解释过任何原因。   
问：今天坐在这里，你不知道政府是否喜欢或不喜欢这个家庭，对吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：确切地说，当米切尔先生和你谈到中国联邦党时——这是你记得的名字，对吗？   
答：这是我记得的名字，是的。   
问：你没有对他进行任何跟进问题，对吗？   
答：我们可能谈过。我不记得细节了。这对我来说并不重要。   
施洛夫律师说：好的。法官大人，我可以稍微休息一下吗？   
法官说：可以。   
施洛夫律师说：谢谢。   
问：你被问到了一个名叫卢克·德斯宾的人，对吗？   
答：是的。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 114 / 161页 
问：你知道那是谁吗？   
答：我想那是破产文件上的名字。   
问：好的。但你知道那是谁吗？   
答：哦，不知道。   
问：你知道那是不是律师吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：好的。巴克女士，今天坐在这里，你能告诉陪审团你为物业的安全支付或授权支付了多少钱
吗？   
答：我不知道确切的数量，总数。  
问：你没有记住任何开支的总数，对吗？   
答：没有。   
问：对。你在这一切中扮演的角色有限，对吗？   
答：我支付了被授权支付的发票。   
问：你把所有这些发票的副本都给了费根森先生，对吗？   
答：我相信是的。   
施洛夫律师说：我没有其他问题了，法官大人。谢谢。   
法官说：好的。我们开始重新询问。   
费根森律师说：谢谢，法官大人。  
重新询问  
由检方费根森律师进行询问：   
问：巴克女士，你被问到了关于中国联邦党的对话。你记得吗？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 115 / 161页 
答：记得。   
问：为了明确，这段对话是和谁进行的？   
答：亚伦·米切尔。   
问：什么时候提到中国联邦党？那段对话是什么时候的？   
答：大约是在我收到第一份传票的时候。   
问：第一份传票是谁发的？   
答：证券交易委员会（SEC）。   
问：SEC是美国政府的一部分吗？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。巴克女士，你记得你被问到肖恩·京是否为 G|Clubs 工作吗？你记得这个问题吗？   
答：记得。   
费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，我们能公布 GX BUCK 194 吗？如果可以的话，请放大
上半部分。 
问：巴克女士，你看到右上角写着客户姓名，肖恩·京吗？   
答：是的。 
问：左边写着“账单寄给”，下面写着“Taurus Fund有限公司”和“肖恩·京”，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：这个文件上有提到 G|Clubs吗？   
答：没有。   
问：肖恩·京的电子邮件地址是 G|Clubs的地址吗？   
答：不是。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 116 / 161页 
费根森律师说：我们可以请洛夫特斯女士展示辩方证物 60613。   
问：巴克女士，你被问到关于安全发票支付的许多问题。你记得这些吗？   
答：记得。   
问：这是你被展示的发票之一，对吗？   
答：是的。   
费根森律师说：我们可以往下滚动。请滚动到第 3页。请放大上面的段落。   
问：巴克女士，你能读一下第二句话吗，从“拥有 7 天 24小时”开始。   
答：“拥有 7 天 24小时视频监控能力可以保障你的家庭和运营安全。”   
问：巴克女士，你理解的 Taurus Fund LLC背后是谁？   
答：一个家庭。   
费根森律师说：我们可以把这个拿下来，洛夫特斯女士。   
问：巴克女士，我不会再展示文件。你被交叉询问时问到了床垫。你记得吗？  
答：记得。   
问：那些是海丝腾床垫，对吗？   
答：���的。   
问：它们每张床垫的价格大约是 3万美元，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你知道这些床垫是否有任何特别的安全功能吗？   
答：我——我不知道。   
费根森律师说：没有其他问题了，法官大人。   
法官说：再次交叉询问？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 117 / 161页 
辩方施洛夫律师进行再次交叉询问：   
问：你知道有任何床垫有安全功能吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：好的。我们看看 194号文件。你看到关于肖恩·京的文件，对吗？他问你这个文件上是否有提
到 G Club，对吗？   
答：是的。   
问：好的。你知道有人同时拥有多份工作吗？   
答：当然，人们可以有多份工作。   
问：对。这个人可以在这里工作，同时也在 G Club 工作，对吗？   
费根森律师说：这是推测。   
法官说：一个人能有多份工作吗？   
证人说：是的。   
法官说：继续。   
问：我可以同时做两份工作，对吗？   
答：你可以。   
问：对。我可以早上在 G|Clubs 工作，白天在沃尔玛工作，对吗？   
答：我相信你可以。   
问：很好。   
施洛夫律师说：我们可以把这个拿下来。看看 60613号文件，看看“家庭和运营”这行。   
问：你看到了吗？   
答：看到了。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 118 / 161页 
问：好的。企业有运营，对吗？   
答：有的。   
施洛夫律师说：谢谢。你可以把这个拿下来。   
问：让我带你回到你与费根森先生的多次会面，对吗？   
费根森律师说：范围，法官大人。这是再次交叉询问。我们没有谈论这个。   
施洛夫律师说：我认为这是在范围内的。   
法官说：好的。继续。   
问：你和米切尔先生讨论过新中国联邦对吗？你记得吗，你多次与亚伦·米切尔谈论过新中国联
邦？对吗？你记得吗？   
答：我们可能谈过。我不特别记得。   
问：好吧。让我们看看是否能帮你回忆。   
施洛夫律师说：我们可以展示给她看吗？   
问：这能帮你回忆吗？   
答：我不知道 NFSC是什么。   
问：新中国联邦？   
答：哦。   
费根森律师说：法官大人，问题是这是否刷新了她的记忆。她不应该把文件内容读到记
录里。   
法官说：你只需要看文件，然后告诉我们它是否刷新了你的记忆。   
证人说：是的。   
由辩方施洛夫律师继续询问：

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 119 / 161页 
问：好的。你其实不太记得这些，因为你对新中国联邦不感兴趣，对吗？   
费根森律师说：反对。   
法官说：反对无效。你可以回答。继续。   
答：我并不感兴趣，不。   
施洛夫律师说：谢谢。我没有其他问题了。祝你有美好的一天。   
法官说：好的。谢谢。你可以退席了。   
（证人退席）  
法官说：政府可以传唤下一位证人。   
费根森律师说：政府传唤道格拉斯·斯卡尔卡。  
道格拉斯·斯卡尔卡，作为政府证人被传唤，经过宣誓后作如下证词： 
法官说：请说明你的名字并拼写出来。   
证人说：我的名字是道格拉斯-斯卡尔卡，S-K-A-L-K-A。   
法官说：你可以开始询问。   
由检方费根森律师直接询问：   
问：早上好，斯卡尔卡先生。   
答：下午好。   
问：下午好。   
费根森律师说：法官大人，在我们开始之前，我是否可以根据协议提交一个证物？   
法官说：可以，请继续。   
费根森律师说：GXC-146 和 GXC-146-T。   
卡马拉珠律师说：没有异议，法官大人。

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 120 / 161页 
法官说：证据被接纳。   
（政府证物C-146，C-146-T被接纳到证据集）   
由检方费根森律师继续询问：   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，你从事什么工作？   
答：我是一名私人执业律师。   
问：你在哪家公司工作？   
答：我在 Neubert, Pepe & Monteith公司工作。   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，你可以调整一下麦克风，把它拉近一些。你主要从事哪种类型的法律工作？   
答：我的主要执业领域是破产和财务困境、债权人权利、涉及财务困境实体和资产的商业交易。
这些是我的执业领域。   
问：你从事破产相关法律工作多久了？   
答：大约 35年。   
问：你熟悉郭浩云或郭文贵的破产程序吗？   
答：是的，我熟悉。   
问：你是如何熟悉的？   
答：我的律师事务所 Neubert, Pepe & Monteith被聘为郭先生破产程序中任命的第 11章受托人
的康涅狄格州法律顾问和冲突法律顾问。 
问：你用什么名字称呼他？   
答：我称他为郭先生或债务人。   
问：郭先生的破产在哪里提交的？   
答：它是在康涅狄格州布里奇波特的康涅狄格州区破产法院提交的。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 121 / 161页 
问：郭先生申请的是什么类型的破产？   
答：是第 11章破产程序。   
问：郭先生申请的第 11章破产程序通常会发生什么？   
答：第 11章破产程序通常被称为重组程序，意思是债务人努力重组其财务事务，力图获得一个
被实体债权人或个人债权人接受的计划，并以一个对其债权人可接受的计划作为更具活力的实体
从破产程序中走出来。 
问：在郭先生的第 11章案件中有破产受托人吗？   
答：有。   
问：宏观来说，那个受托人是如何被任命的？ 
答：受托人是由康涅狄格州区破产法院任命的。我相信该命令是在 2022年 6 月发出的，这是对
破产案件中提交的一项动议的回应。 
问：简单地说，受托人在郭先生的破产中的角色是什么？   
答：第 11章破产受托人，实际上是郭先生破产案件中的第 11章受托人，实质上是取代债务人的
位置，拥有所有债务人的权力和权利，这意味着他有权追讨资产，提出索赔以追回资产以造福债
权人。他也有权对索赔提出异议，并向法院和债权人通报破产程序中的进展情况，这意味着他必
须每月向破产法院提交报告。 
问：你使用了“债权人”这个词，什么是债权人？   
答：债权人是任何对债务人有债权的当事人，债权可以提出，并且根据破产法的定义范围很广。
它可以是特定金额的钱，未知金额的钱，也可以是或有债权。这些都是债权人。 
法官说：你的意思是债权人是认为他们被欠款或财产的个人或实体？   
证人说：可以是被欠款或财产。   
法官说：继续。   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，在不涉及任何特权领域或讨论的情况下，你的事务所作为受托人的法律顾
问，扮演了什么角色？如果有的话。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 122 / 161页 
答：我的事务所被聘为第 11章破产受托人的康涅狄格州法律顾问和冲突法律顾问。 
问：在这个角色中，我和我的事务所，我的同事们代表受托人提交了诉状，代表受托人出席了听
证会，代表受托人向第三方进行证据开示，包括向第三方送达传票以获取信息或文件。与诉状相
关的，我们提交了诉讼，提交了动议，并对其他当事方的动议提出了异议。 
问：请你从宏观上解释一下你的事务所在破产程序中获得这项工作报酬的过程吗？   
答：好的。作为法院批准的专业人士，我的事务所在破产案件中被要求定期向破产法院提交所谓
的费用申请，并寻求破产法院的批准。任何破产案件中的当事方以及法官都可以对这些费用申请
提出异议。最终，法官大人有权决定批准哪些费用以及何时支付。 
问：到目前为止，你们在郭先生的破产案中是否获得了费用支付？   
答：我们公司的部分费用已经支付。   
问：一般来说，受托人在第 11章案件中是如何获得报酬的？   
答：像郭先生案件中的第 11章受托人一样，受托人有权根据破产法典寻求佣金，佣金是指在破
产案件期间通过破产财产回收和处理的资金的一定比例。受托人有权寻求这种佣金。   
问：你对郭先生破产案的受托人是如何获得报酬的有何了解？   
答：郭先生的破产受托人—— 
口译员说：口译员请求双方放慢速度。   
法官说：请放慢语速。   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，你对郭先生破产案的受托人如何获得补偿有何了解？ 
答：郭先生的破产受托人表示他不会寻求作为受托人的佣金。   
问：受托人叫什么名字？   
答：他叫卢克·德斯宾。   
问：他在哪里工作？   
答：他是普衡律师事务所的律师。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 123 / 161页 
问：他从事什么类型的法律工作？   
答：他是一名破产律师。   
问：哪家律师事务所是受托人的主要律师或主要法律顾问？ 
答：受托人聘用了他的普衡律师事务所作为首席律师。   
问：受托人聘用自己的破产事务所是常见还是不常见的？   
答：受托人从事破产业务时，有时受托人并不在破产事务所。受托人甚至可能不是律师。但在本
案中，他是一名破产律师，并且拥有破产执业资格，因此，在这种情况下受托人聘用自己的事务
所是常见的。   
问：受托人是否提起诉讼以追回与破产相关的资金？   
口译员说：法官大人，我们是否可以让双方放慢速度。   
法官说：请说慢一点。   
问：受托人是否提起了与破产相关的资金回收诉讼？   
答：是的，受托人已经提起了诉讼。   
问：大约提起了多少起诉讼？   
答：到目前为止，受托人已经提起了大约 300起诉讼。   
问：到目前为止，大约回收了多少资金？   
答：到目前为止，受托人已经回收了超过一亿美元。   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，你今天的作证要收费吗？   
答：不。   
问：你为什么今天来作证？   
答：是你们办公室要求我来作证的。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 124 / 161页 
问：你与美国检察官办公室大约见了多少次以准备你的证词？   
答：我与美国检察官办公室见了三次面，两次是远程会议，一次是当面会议。   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，郭先生的最大已知债权人是谁？   
答：郭先生在破产案中的最大已知债权人是一个名为太平联盟的实体。 
问：你有没有用任何缩写来指代这个实体？   
答：有，在破产案中这个实体通常被称为 PAX，因为说太长的“太平联盟”有点麻烦。   
问：你能拼一下缩写吗吗？   
答：通常拼作 PAX。   
问：简单介绍一下，PAX是什么？   
答：PAX是一个向商业企业提供贷款的基金。   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，你可以把麦克风调近一些吗？如果可以的话，请提高一些音量，听起来有点
困难。   
答：我会靠近一点。抱歉。   
问：很好。谢谢。那么，斯卡尔卡先生，你能拼一下受托人的姓氏吗？   
答：德斯宾，D-E-S-P-I-N-S。   
问：回到 PAX。作为你参与郭先生破产案的一部分，你是否熟悉 PAX和郭先生之间的诉讼？   
答：是的，我熟悉。   
问：在破产申请之前，PAX和郭先生之间有诉讼吗？   
答：有的。   
问：PAX 对郭先生提出了什么索赔？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 125 / 161页 
答：PAX声称郭先生签署了一份与 PAX向一家名为 Shiny Time Holding的商业企业提供的贷款
相关的个人担保，PAX试图从郭先生那里追回这笔贷款。   
问：用外行的话说，什么是个人担保？   
答：个人担保是一种贷款人和签署个人担保的人之间的单独合同，这基本上意味着如果贷款的接
收方出于任何原因不偿还贷款，签署个人担保的人，通常称为担保人，基本上在说，如果借款人
不偿还贷款，我将有义务偿还贷款。   
问：关于个人担保的诉讼，PAX在哪个法院提起了诉讼？   
答：在纽约最高法院提起。   
问：大约什么时候 PAX在纽约最高法院提起了这起诉讼？   
答：在 2017年。   
问：顺便问一下，那是州法院还是联邦法院？   
答：那是州法院。   
问：简要说，PAX提交了什么文件来提起诉讼？   
答：他们提交的文件称为起诉书。   
问：简要说，什么是起诉书？   
答：起诉书是开始一件诉讼的文件。 
它陈述了原告，即提起诉讼的一方，对被告或被告方的主张，这些主张在起诉书中陈述。   
问：郭先生提交了答辩状吗？   
答：是的。   
问：简要的说，什么是答辩状？   
答：简要的说，答辩状是诉讼中提交的文件，回应原告在起诉书中提出的主张。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 126 / 161页 
问：斯卡尔卡先生，你记得 PAX在起诉书中声称他们在 2017年之前做了哪些工��以追回所欠债
务吗？   
答：是的，起诉书中表明 PAX曾努力从 Shiny Times和郭先生那里收回贷款，并且曾进行过谈
判，甚至达成了一个潜在的和解协议；但起诉书中指出，该和解协议最终没有执行或未能继续进
行。   
问：什么是催款信？   
答：催款信就是字面意思的信件。通常是一方写给可能欠信件发送方钱款的另一方的信件。它是
要求支付债务的信件。   
问：PAX是否曾发送过催款信？   
卡马拉珠律师说：反对，基于个人知识，法官大人。   
费根森律师说：我可以重新提问，法官大人。   
法官说：继续。   
问：你记得 PAX是否声称他们曾发送过催款信吗？   
卡马拉珠律师说：反对，相关性。   
法官说：请详细说明。   
（边栏会议讨论，仅法官和双方律师在场）   
法官说：起诉书是否有证据？ 
费根森律师说：没有。我想我可以继续。我只有一个问题，如果我可以问卡马拉珠律师
一个问题。我们可以解决这个问题，是否会对针对他是中国持不同政见者而提出的起诉进行交叉
问询？ 
卡马拉珠律师说：我会问它的提交日期，仅此而已。   
费根森律师说：如果需要深入探讨，我想我们可以在重定向中处理。我现在先继续。   
法官说：谢谢。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 127 / 161页 
（在公开法庭中）   
费根森律师问：   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，总的来说，郭先生的答辩是承认还是否认了这些指控？   
答：郭先生的答辩否认了起诉书中的指控。   
问：PAX的诉讼发生了什么？   
答：PAX 在诉讼的某个阶段提出了所谓的简易判决动议，要求就其对郭先生的起诉作出判决。   
问：在 PAX的案件中是否有有简易判决的裁定？   
答：有。   
问：总的来说，裁定结果是什么？   
答：法院批准了 PAX提交的动议，并对郭先生做出了判决。   
问：法院判决了多少赔偿金？   
答：法院做出了约 1.14亿美元的判决。   
问：这个判决大约是什么时候做出的？   
答：2020年 9 月。   
问：总的来说，这个赔偿金额的依据是什么？   
答：这是贷款的本金加上利息，还有一些律师费用。   
问：PAX采取了哪些措施来收取这个判决款？   
答：在法院批准简易判决动议后不久，PAX 申请了限制令，禁止债务人或郭先生将资产转移到司
法管辖区之外。   
问：有限制令被颁布吗？   
答：有。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 128 / 161页 
问：什么是限制令？   
答：这是法院发出的命令，限制一方做某事。在这个案例中，是限制郭先生转移资产。   
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以向证人展示标记为政府证物 1416 的文件吗？斯卡尔卡先生，这是
什么文件？   
答：这是纽约最高法院于 2020年 10 月 15日颁布的限制令副本。   
费根森律师说：政府提供政府证物 1416。   
卡马拉珠律师说：没有异议。   
法官说：证据被接纳。   
（政府证物 1416被接纳到证据集）   
费根森律师继续问：   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，这是什么日期提交的？   
答：我相信是 2020年 10 月 15日。   
问：如果可以的话，洛夫特斯女士，我们可以将文本放大一些便于阅读。 
斯卡尔卡先生，请你读一下这些段落吗？   
答：2020年 10 月 15日，法院通过Microsoft Teams举行了口头辩论，所有当事方的律
师都参与了原告根据CPLR 5229 提出的判后限制令动议（动议 011）。2020年 9 月 15日，法
院对原告的责任问题作出简易判决，支持原告。关于公司被告是否是郭先生的影子实体，以及损
害赔偿问题，将在稍后确定。  
问：请你读下一段。   
答：根据CPLR 5229，原告的限制令动议被批准。郭先生被限制出售、转让或干涉他有直接或间
接利益的任何财产，以及支付或以其他方式处置目前或将来到期的任何债务，除非符合 CPLR 
5222规定中的例外情况，并根据 2020年 10 月 15日的记录进行处理。特别是限制郭先生雪利酒
店和游艇“LadyMay”的注册所有者出售、转让或干涉这些资产。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 129 / 161页 
问：斯卡尔卡先生，这里提到的“原告”是谁？   
答：PAX。   
问：有提到“影子实体”，什么是“影子实体”？   
答：“影子实体”是指一个相关实体或由第三方控制的实体。   
问：聚焦于底部的第一段，关于雪梨酒店的住所，你熟悉这个住所吗？   
答：我在郭先生的破产程序中。 
问：你对所提到的住所有什么了解？   
答：我相信它指的是由一个名为詹妮弗控股有限责任公司的实体拥有，它实际上拥有该合作公寓
的股份。   
问：那是什么样的公寓？   
答：这是位于纽约市第五大道上的雪梨酒店的一套顶层公寓。   
问：是否有针对雪梨公寓的收缴行动？   
答：有的，PAX试图从雪梨酒店公寓的资产中收回其判决或索赔。   
问：这些收缴行动发生了什么？   
答：对不起，我没有听清你的问题。   
问：PAX的收款行动发生了什么？   
答：在该命令发布后不久，詹妮弗控股有限责任公司提交了自己的第 11章破产申请，这自动中
止或停止了 PAX从该实体收款的努力。   
问：为什么提交破产申请会自动停止这些行动？   
答：根据破产法典，任何破产申请都会产生所谓的自动中止。这是在破产法典第 362条下规定
的。在破产期间，除非获得破产法院的许可，否则任何债权人都不能试图从债务人那里追讨债
务。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 130 / 161页 
问：聚焦于第二项，游艇 LadyMay。PAX在通过游艇收款方面采取了什么行动？   
答：在这个案例中，他们获得了这项限制，我相信他们正在试图从 LadyMay中收回他们的判
决。   
问：接下来 LadyMay 发生了什么重要事件吗？   
答：根据案件中的诉状，LadyMay被转移到了纽约最高法院管辖区之外，PAX因此对郭先生提
起了藐视法庭动议，指控他通过将游艇转移到法院管辖区之外而违反了禁令。   
问：什么是藐视法庭？   
答：在这个案例中，藐视法庭是指故意违反法院的命令。   
问：我们可以给证人展示标记为政府证物 1413 的文件吗？藐视法庭动议被批准了吗？   
答：是的，被批准了。   
问：这是藐视法庭的命令吗？   
答：我现在看到的是 2022年 2 月发布的最终藐视法庭命令的副本。   
费根森律师说：政府提供政府证物 1413。   
卡马拉珠律师说：根据我们之前的反对，目前没有异议。   
法官说：好的。   
（政府证物 1413被接纳到证据集）   
费根森律师问：   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，这份最终民事藐视法庭命令是什么时候发布的？   
答：2022年 2 月 9 日。   
问：洛夫特斯女士，如果可以，请放大底部的文本。 斯卡尔卡先生，请你读一下第一段。

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 131 / 161页 
答：鉴于本法院的有条件民事藐视法庭命令，日期为 2021年 3 月 16 日，指示如果被告郭文贵未
能在 2021年 5月 15日之前将 LadyMay 游艇返回本法院管辖区，他将被处以每天 50万美元的
罚款，直到 LadyMay 返回管辖区。   
问：请你读下一行。   
答：鉴于 LadyMay未在 2021年 5月 15日前返回管辖区。   
问：请继续读下一段。   
答：鉴于 2021年 11 月 4 日，上诉分院第一部门确认了本法院的命令，认为郭文贵被判有条件的
民事藐视法庭，指出“每日 50 万美元的罚款旨在大力鼓励被告洗刷自己的藐视法庭行为，但尽管
被允许有两个月的时间来完成，他没有表现出任何兴趣去做。”并指示本法院进行证据听证，以解
决游艇的所有权和控制权争议，并评估适当的处罚。   
法官说：请稍等。   
（暂停）   
法官说：你可以继续。 
问：斯卡尔卡先生，请你读一下这页的最后一行。   
答：鉴于到目前为止，郭先生未能将 LadyMay 游艇返回管辖区。   
问：洛夫特斯女士，如果可以，请翻到下一页。先放大上半部分。斯卡尔卡先生，请继续读。  
答：鉴于第一部门在 2021年 11 月 4 日的命令指定的证据听证会于 2022年 2 月 2 日举行。   
问：请读下一行。   
答：鉴于郭先生及 LadyMay 游艇的注册持有人 HK International Funds Investments 
(USA) Limited, LLC的律师出席了听证会，提供了证据并由律师代表。   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，HK International Funds Investments (USA) Limited, LLC的注册所
有者是谁？   
答：郭美。

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 132 / 161页 
问：郭美与郭先生有什么关系？   
答：郭美是郭先生的女儿。   
问：在提到的证据听证会上，哪些家庭成员作证？   
卡马拉珠律师说：反对，个人知识。   
法官说：如果你知道的话。   
问：如果有，哪些家庭成员在听证会上作证？   
答：诉状表明郭美在听证会上作证。   
问：请继续读第三段。   
答：鉴于根据听证会上提供的证据，法院确定 PAX已明确而有说服力地证明郭先生对 LadyMay
拥有利益和控制权，如法院 2022年 2 月 9 日的决定和命令中所述。   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，什么是“利益”？你的理解是什么？   
答：我的理解是，如果他没有该财产的所有权，那么他对该财产有一定的权益，对该财产有一定
的所有权。   
问：我们继续往下看。这里说，因此特此命令、判决和裁定，接下来有几条。请读第一条。   
答：郭先生违反了纽约司法法第 753条，并因藐视本法院命令而被判民事藐视。   
问：第二条？   
答：郭先生被指示立即向 PAX支付 1.34亿美元，即在 2021年 5月 15日至 2022年 2 月 7 日期
间每天支付 50万美元。   
问：第三条？   
答：在郭先生将 LadyMay 返回管辖区之前，每天应继续向 PAX支付 50万美元，从本命令送达
后的 10 个工作日开始计算。   
问：第四条？

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 133 / 161页 
答：上述第二段所列金额应在本命令送达后的五个工作日内支付给 PAX。   
问：第五条？   
答：如果罚款未及时支付给 PAX，法院将行使纽约司法法第 753条规定的全部权力。   
问：法院根据该法律除了罚款还有什么权力？   
答：根据该法，法院还有权发布所谓的“逮捕令”。   
问：这是什么意思？   
答：一个逮捕令。   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，聚焦于第四条，郭先生有大约多长时间支付 1.34亿美元？   
答：他有五个工作日。   
问：郭先生实际支付了吗？   
答：没有。   
问：那发生了什么？   
答：2022年 2 月 15日，郭先生在康涅狄格区提交了第 11章破产申请。   
问：提交距离支付 1.34亿美元的期限有多近？   
答：六天。我相信这是在这份命令的五个工作日内。这是奥斯特拉格法官的命令发布后的六天。   
问：我们可以给证人展示标记为政府证物 1407 的文件吗？斯卡尔卡先生，这是什么文件？   
答：这是郭先生于 2022年 2 月 15日在康涅狄格区提交的自愿申请的副本。   
费根森律师说：政府提供政府证物 1407。 
卡马拉珠律师说：没有异议。   
法官说：证据被接纳。   
（政府证物 1407被接纳到证据集）

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 134 / 161页 
费根森律师继续问：   
问：洛夫特斯女士，也许我们可以放大中间部分，关于债务人一的信息，列出的名字是什么？   
答：郭文贵。   
问：在那下面列出的其他名字是什么？   
答：Miles Kwok，Miles Guo，郭文贵。   
问：在右边的关于债务人二的信息中，（仅在联合案件中配偶）这一栏是否填写了？   
答：没有。   
问：郭先生的配偶叫什么名字？   
答：岳庆芝。   
问：你能为法庭记录拼写一下吗？   
答：H-I-N-G，C-H-I，N-G-O-K。   
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以翻到第二页吗？如果可以的话，请放大居住地部分。 
郭先生填写的居住地是什么？   
答：他填写的是金泉纽约有限公司，地址是纽约东 64街 162号。   
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们来看第七页。如果可以放大下半部分。斯卡尔卡先生，在第 18项中，
郭先生估计他欠了多少债权人？   
答：他估计他欠了 50 到 99 个债权人。   
问：他估计他拥有多少资产？   
答：他表示他的资产价值在$50,001 到$100,000 之间。   
问：聚焦于左下角，谁签署了这份文件？   
答：郭先生。

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 135 / 161页 
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以把它收起来。斯卡尔卡先生，提交破产申请是否解决了 LadyMay
的问题？   
答：没有解决。   
问：是否有达成协议将资金存入托管账户作为 LadyMay的担保？   
答：是的。   
问：最终存入托管账���的金额是多少？   
答：3700万美元。   
问：这份协议的当事人是谁？   
答：这是 PAX、郭先生、由美国康涅狄格区破产法院指定的债权人委员会和我称之为 HK USA的
实体之间达成的协议。   
问：HK USA是什么？   
答：这是郭美拥有的实体，声称是 LadyMay的注册所有者。   
问：根据该协议存入托管账户的 3700万美元的来源是什么？   
答：来源是向 HK USA提供的贷款。   
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们是否可以给证人展示标记为政府证物 1314 的文件。   
费根森律师说：法官大人，请给我一点时间。   
法官说：继续。   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，你记得贷款协议的执行日期或贷款协议的日期吗？   
答：我相信是 2022年 4 月 19 日。   
问：仅作背景说明，这大约是在郭先生提交破产申请后多久？   
答：大约是提交后两个月。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 136 / 161页 
问：你能在屏幕上看到它吗，斯卡尔卡先生？   
答：是的。   
问：这是什么文件？   
答：这是香港国际基金投资美国有限公司（HK USA）与喜马拉雅国际金融集团有限公
司之间的贷款协议副本。   
费根森律师说：政府提供政府证物 1314。   
卡马拉珠律师说：没有异议，法官大人。   
法官说：证据被接纳。   
（政府证物 1314被接纳到证据集） 
费根森律师问：   
问：现在我们可以看到它了，洛夫特斯女士，如果可以请放大封面页的文本。上面写着 2022年 4
月 19 日，斯卡尔卡先生，你看到了吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你能读一下这份贷款协议是由谁签订的吗？   
答：贷款协议是香港国际基金投资美国有限公司（HK USA）与喜马拉雅国际金融集团
有限公司之间的协议。   
问：我们来看第二页，洛夫特斯女士，请继续向下滚动。重点关注底部“游艇”一行，请读一下游
艇后的引号中的内容，斯卡尔卡先生？   
答：LadyMay。   
问：我们来看第四页，请向下滚动。斯卡尔卡先生，在用途部分请读一下 3.1 和 3.2？   
答：好的。根据本协议，双方书面同意的全部融资金额将支付到托管账户（托管账户）
中。全部融资金额将作为与游艇相关的法院担保。借款人在托管账户中保留全部融资金额的期限
为从本协议签订之日起至游艇返回美国之时止。借款人将尽一切合理努力尽快将游艇归还。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 137 / 161页 
问：集中在 2.1条上，金额是多少，融资金额是多少？ 
答：3700万美元。   
问：我们来看第五页，聚焦于 4.3。你能读一下 4.3 吗？   
答：全部融资金额应以游艇及公司直接或间接的所有其他资产作为担保，并应优先于借款人的所
有其他负债或债务索赔。 
问：从宏观层面上讲，贷款以游艇作为担保是什么意思？ 
答：这表明游艇上将有一个留置权，这是我认为贷款方所寻求的担保。   
问：我们来看第 13页。斯卡尔卡先生，谁为你称之为 HK USA的公司签署了文件？   
答：郭美。   
问：她的职位是什么？   
答：她被列为该有限责任公司的唯一成员。   
问：谁为喜马拉雅国际金融集团签署了文件？   
答：我不认识这个签名。   
问：该人有列出职位吗？   
答：没有。   
问：有列出名字吗？   
答：没有。   
问：上面写了什么？   
答：只写了授权签名。   
问：我们可以给证人展示标记为政府证物 1316 的文件吗？斯卡尔卡先生，这是什么文件？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 138 / 161页 
答：这是我们刚才看到的 2022年 4 月 19 日 HK USA和喜马拉雅国际金融集团之间的贷款协议
的附加协议。   
费根森律师说：政府提供政府证物 1316。   
卡马拉珠律师说：法官大人，可以稍等一下吗？   
法官说：可以。   
卡马拉珠律师说：没有异议，法官大人。   
法官说：证据被接纳。   
（政府证物 1316被接纳到证据集） 
由检方费根森律师继续询问：   
问：谢谢。斯卡尔卡先生，你说这是附加协议，总的来说，附加协议是什么？   
答：这是对贷款协议的修改，包含一些新的条款或修订条款。   
问：聚焦于左上方，这封信的日期是什么？   
答：2022年 4 月 29 日。   
问：这是与我们刚才看到的贷款协议相同的双方吗？   
答：是的。   
问：如果可以的话，洛夫特斯女士，请集中在 1.2 和 1.3条。斯卡尔卡先生，请你读一下 1.3条
及其子段落，好吗？ 
答：作为一英镑的对价，我们同意如下：A，贷款协议中的贷款将不再被视为以游艇为担
保。B，借款人将提供个人担保（我们已收到签署的副本）。C，条款——   
问：其实这样就可以了。斯卡尔卡先生，1.3 中提到的对价，在这个背景下是什么意思？   
答：这表示为了修改贷款协议的条款，不再以游艇为担保，而是提供个人担保。   
问：用外行的话来说，对价是什么？

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 139 / 161页 
答：某种价值，在这个案例中是一英镑，但外行话来说，就是某种价值。   
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可否展示标记为—— 
实际上，我们是否可以快速滚动到第二页。我们是否可以放大签名部分。这里有 HK USA的签名
吗？   
答：有。   
问：有列出名字吗？   
答：没有。   
问：列出的职位是什么？   
答：董事。   
问：在贷款上列出的职位是什么？   
答：唯一成员。   
问：那么喜马拉雅国际金融集团的签名是谁签的？   
答：我不认得这个签名。   
问：有列出名字吗？   
答：有一个名字。有一个签名。但没有列出名字。 
我们展示标记为政府证物 1315的文件给证人， 
请问这是什么文件，斯卡尔卡先生？   
答：这是担保协议的副本。 
费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物 1315。   
卡马拉珠律师说：没有异议。   
法官说：证据被接纳。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 140 / 161页 
（政府证物 1315 被接纳到证据集） 
由检方费根森律师继续询问：   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，这份担保协议是在哪些人之间签订的？ 
答：郭美和喜马拉雅国际金融集团, LTD。   
问：我们之前看到的文件提到了一份个人担保协议，这份协议大致是什么内容？   
答：这是郭美提供的个人担保，表明她个人担保香港国际基金投资美国公司（我称之为
HK USA）和喜马拉雅国际金融集团之间的义务。   
问：我们可以滚动到签名页吗，洛夫特斯女士？谁签署了这份文件？   
答：郭美。   
问：这种协议与 PAX指控郭先生签署的协议相比如何？   
卡马拉珠律师说：反对，问题形式不当。   
法官说：反对有效。 
问：如果我们现在展示给证人，只供证人查看，标记为政府证物 1303 的文件。这是什么文件，
斯卡尔卡先生？   
答：这是香港国际基金有限公司与 ACA资本集团有限公司之间的贷款协议草案。   
问：这份文件是在发现程序中提交给托管人的吗？   
答：是的。   
问：由谁提交的？   
答：HK USA的律师。   
问：这是 LadyMay的注册所有者吗？   
答：是的。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 141 / 161页 
费根森律师说：政府提供政府证物 1303。   
卡马拉珠律师说：没有异议。   
法官说：证据被接纳。   
（政府证物 1303被接纳到证据集） 
由检方费根森律师继续询问：   
问：我们可以公布吗？斯卡尔卡先生，这份贷款协议草案是由谁签订的？   
答：香港国际基金有限公司与 ACA资本集团有限公司。   
问：我们现在可以向下滚动。斯卡尔卡先生，你知道为什么贷款人从 ACA资本集团变更为喜马
拉雅实体吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：我们继续向下滚动，直接到第 15页，洛夫特斯女士。斯卡尔卡先生，你能读一下第一个签
名行的实体名称吗？   
答：香港国际基金有限公司。   
问：你能读一下第二个实体名称吗？   
答：Fortress Spark Limited。   
问：你知道 Fortress Spark Limited是什么吗？   
答：我不知道。   
问：据你所知，Fortress Spark Limited在郭先生的破产案中是否有出现过？   
答：据我所知没有。   
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以收起这份文件。斯卡尔卡先生，最终 3700万美元是否存入了托管
账户？   
答：是的。

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 142 / 161页 
问：谁首先收到这些资金？   
答：贷款收益先到达 HK USA在破产案中的律师那里。   
问：他们的律师是谁？   
答：Zeisler & Zeisler律师事务所。   
问：在破产案中，如果有的话，Zeisler & Zeisler还代表谁吗？   
答：他们还代表郭美，后来他们也成为了郭先生的律师。   
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们是否可以展示这些文件给证人——这些是四个文件。这些是政府证物—
—斯卡尔卡先生，在此之前——洛夫特斯女士，1419、1420、1421 和 1422。在等待的过程中，
斯卡尔卡先生，如果有的话，在 3700万美元存入托管账户后，PAX案件中关于游艇的情况发生
了什么？   
答：由于破产申请，PAX案件被中止，所以在破产案进行期间，PAX案件没有进一步的行动。   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，你能在宏观上看到这些文件是什么吗？   
答：是的，我能看到。   
问：这些是郭先生和他的律师在破产案中提交的关于他的资产的文件吗？   
答：是的，包括他的资产和负债。   
费根森律师说：政府提供政府证物 1419 至 1422。   
卡马拉珠律师说：没有异议。   
法官说：证据被接纳。   
（政府证物 1419、1420、1421 和 1422被接纳到证据集） 
由检方费根森律师继续询问： 
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们是否可以先放大到 1421。斯卡尔卡先生，这里写的是关于个人债务人的
声明。你能读一下左下角的签名，上面的文字吗？

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 143 / 161页 
答：我在伪证罪的惩罚下声明，我已阅读与本声明一起提交的摘要和清单，并且它们是真实和准
确的。   
问：是谁签署的？   
答：郭先生。   
问：日期是什么时候？   
答：2022年 3 月 9 日。   
问：现在，洛夫特斯女士，我们来看一下政府证物 1420。如果可以放大一下，洛夫特斯女士，中
间部分的官方表格 106。斯卡尔卡先生，从宏观上看，这是什么类型的文件？   
答：这些被称为破产清单，任何在美国提交破产案件的债务人都需要提交这些文件。这些是政府
表格，我正在看的这个特定文件是债务人在各种清单中列出的资产和负债的摘要。   
问：郭先生声称的房地产资产总价值是多少？   
答：零。   
问：郭先生声称的个人财产总价值是多少？   
答：3850美元。   
问：在第二部分，郭先生声称的负债是多少？   
答：373,803,498.09美元。   
问：郭先生声称有多少收入？   
答：零。   
问：开支是多少？   
答：零。   
问：我们可以看一下这份文件的第三页吗，洛夫特斯女士。如果可以的话，请放大和我们上次一
样的部分。斯卡尔卡先生，郭先生在是否拥有任何房地产的法律或衡平权益方面是怎么回答的？

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 144 / 161页 
答：他说没有。他没有任何。   
问：郭先生关于任何车辆的权益是怎么说的？   
答：他说没有，他没有任何。   
问：关于任何船只的权益呢？   
答：他说没有，他没有任何。   
问：关于任何家庭用品和家具的法律或衡平权益呢？   
答：他说没有，他没有任何权益。   
问：电子产品呢？   
答：他说有，他对电子产品有权益。   
问：我们是否可以往下滚动，洛夫特斯女士。郭先生列出的电子产品是什么？   
答：一部 iPhone。   
问：价值是多少？   
答：未知。   
问：我们是否可以再往下滚动一点。除了 iPhone，郭先生在这份表格中还申报了什么其他资产？   
答：他表示他有一些衣物，还有一只家养的狗。   
问：是什么品种的狗？   
答：一只博美犬。   
问：这些资产的价值是多少？   
答：未知。   
问：我们可以看一下第五页吗。郭先生在这页上列出的资产是什么？   
答：他列出了他有一些来自纽约州的退税支票和一些尚未兑现的新冠疫情救济支票。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 145 / 161页 
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们现在看一下政府证物 1419。也许我们可以放大上半部分。斯卡尔卡先
生，从总体上看，这是什么文件？   
答：这些是由债务人的律师提交的笔记和声明，描述了我们刚才看到的债务人清单中披露的一些
限制，以及对与财务状况声明相关问题的一些其他回答，尽管我们还没有看到财务状况声明，但
那是任何破产案件中的债务人需要填写的另一份表格。 
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们是否可以缩小并翻到第四页。斯卡尔卡先生，你可以读一下问题一吗？   
答：你是否拥有或拥有任何居住、建筑、土地或类似财产的非法或合法权益？   
问：你可以读一下第一个条目——斯卡尔卡先生，为了参考，当我们看前面的文件时，郭先生在
那个文件上是怎么回答这个问题的？   
答：在前面的文件中，他说他没有任何房地产的权益。   
问：你可以读一下下面的第一条吗？   
答：债务人使用并占有位于康涅狄格州格林威治 373 Taconic Road的房地产（“住
宅”）。债务人对该住宅没有法律所有权，且没有法院认定债务人在其中具有任何其他权益（衡平
或其他）。与该住宅相关的所有费用和开支均由家庭和家庭控制的企业直接支付。该住宅由
Greenwich Land, LLC（“Greenwich Land”）拥有，Greenwich Land的唯一成员是债务人的配
偶。 
问：如果我们能下滚到第二条。我问你能否读一下——你能读一下前两句话吗？   
答：债务人还可以使用位于纽约州纽约市第五大道 781号雪梨酒店的一间公寓（下称“公
寓”）。公寓的合作股份由詹妮弗控股有限责任公司持有。   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，能否跳过几句读一下开始于“债务人的儿子”的那句话？   
答：债务人的儿子拥有公寓持有者的股权。在信托日期左右，公寓持有者为购买公寓而向 USS 
PV提供了资金。这些资金来自于债务人儿子拥有或控制的实体，而非债务人。   
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们是否可以缩小，并稍微滚动到第四页。斯卡尔卡先生，在这个问题下有
没有讨论到其他物业？   
答：没有。

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 146 / 161页 
问：顺便问一下，郭先生有没有声称对讨论的这两个物业有任何权益？   
答：没有。   
问：现在，这些是否讨论了位于新泽西州马瓦的物业？   
答：没有。   
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们来看第六页。如果可以放大 J 段。你能读一下问题 17 吗？   
答：问题 17，存款。   
问：这些注释对这个问题是怎么回答的？   
答：这些注释提到了 2018年在香港发出的禁制令。   
问：你能从第二句话开始读一下关于禁制令的内容吗？   
答：限制令声明其将保持有效直到包括 2019年 4 月 30 日，并且理解其将根据 2019年
5月 3 日高等法院的进一步命令继续生效。该限制令的生效是为了冻结债务人据称拥有的 370万
港元的资金，同时冻结或查封更多的资金和财产，包括据称由债务人有效控制的个人和实体在香
港的不动产（根据限制令）。由于这些资产被冻结/查封，债务人未将其包括在其财产中。 
问：我们可以看第七页吗？如果可以放大顶部的段落。请你读一下第一句话？   
答：2017年 9 月和 10 月，中国政府突袭了耀时公司的办公室，查封了所有会计公司记录和许多
个人财务记录。   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，你能提醒我们，如果有的话，耀时公司与 PAX案有什么关联吗？   
答：耀时控股公司是其全称，是从 PAX贷款的借款实体，也是郭先生亲自担保债务的实体。  
问：我们可以看第八页吗？如果可以放大顶部的第 26 题。第 26 题，下划线是，专利、版权、商
标、商业秘密和其他知识产权。你能读一下郭先生对此回答的备注吗？   
答：债务人可能拥有未注册的版权和其他知识产权，这些资产涉及发布在油管、GTV、推特和盖
特等各种数字和媒体平台上的音乐和视频。债务人对他的社交媒体资产不赋予任何价值，并且没
有尝试通过他的社交媒体存在来获利。

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 147 / 161页 
问：你对“对这些资产不赋予任何价值”的理解是什么？   
答：我的理解是他认为这些资产没有任何价值。 
问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以把它拿下来。如果可以，请洛夫特斯女士向证人展示标记为政府证
物 1401-A的文件。当它显示出来时，斯卡尔卡先生，破产中的债权人会议是什么？   
答：在每个第 11章破产案中，法院在案件提交后不久会设立一个债权人会议。这是在破产法第
341节下进行的会议，所有案件中的债权人都被邀请参加并可以提问；但会议本身由美国受托人
办公室主持，债务人必须出席会议并在宣誓下回答问题。   
问：这些会议在郭先生的破产案中举行了吗？   
答：是的。   
问：斯卡尔卡先生，政府证物 1401-A是什么？   
答：这是郭先生破产案中 2022年 3 月 21 日举行的债权人会议的部分记录。   
费根森律师说：政府提交政府证物 1401-A。   
卡拉马珠律师说：没有异议。   
法官说：接纳为证据。   
（政府证物 1401-A被接纳到证据集）   
由检方费根森律师继续询问：   
问：现在，斯卡尔卡先生，在这个摘录中谁在被询问？   
答：郭先生在被询问。   
问：所以当它显示 Q和 A时，Q和 A代表什么？   
答：Q代表问题，A代表回答。   
问：现在，如果可以的话，我来读问题，你可以读郭先生的回答：“金泉拥有位于那个地址的那栋
建筑吗？”

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 148 / 161页 
答：“我不知道。”   
问：“你去过那个地址吗？”   
答：“是的。”   
问：“那是什么类型的建筑？在那里有什么？”   
答：“那是一栋建筑。”   
问：“是住宅建筑还是商业建筑？”   
答：“商业建筑。”   
问：然后是克莱本和翻译之间的一些对话。为了参考，斯卡尔卡先生，克莱本女士是谁？   
答：她是康涅狄格州美国受托人办公室的一名律师。   
问：这是你说的主持这些会议的办公室吗？   
答：在康涅狄格州，是的。   
问：我继续：“那里有人住吗？”   
答：“我不知道。”   
问：“金泉是做什么业务的？”   
答：“这是一个大家族生意。我的儿子在工作，但我不知道具体有哪些业务类别。”   
问：郭先生，当你使用这个术语时—— 
答：这是我儿子拥有的一个家族办公室。他还有其他业务，但我不知道。 
问：“郭先生，当你使用‘家族生意’或‘家族办公室’这些词时，你是什么意思？”   
答：“主要是为整个家庭，所有家庭成员。当有事情时我们互相帮助。”   
问：“郭先生，你能详细解释一下吗？”   
答：“我不知道怎么解释。”

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 149 / 161页 
问：“金泉有员工吗？”   
答：“有。”   
问：“有多少？”   
答：“我不知道。”   
问：“金泉拥有任何房地产吗？”   
答：“我不知道。”   
问：“金泉拥有其他业务吗？”   
答：“我不知道。”   
问：“金泉有任何银行账户吗？”   
答：“我不知道。”   
问：“郭先生，你之前在提交给破产法院的文件中说金泉支付了你的个人生活费用。你能解释一下
他们是怎么做的吗？”   
答：“我不知道你说的‘他们支付我’是什么意思。在什么方面？”   
问：“郭先生，你之前告诉法院，在你的破产文件中，金泉支付了你的衣物、食物和住房费用。我
的问题是，他们怎么做的？他们给你钱吗？他们直接支付给其他人吗？这是怎么回事？”   
答：“每当我需要基本生活费用时，我会和我的儿子谈，他会告诉他的办公室给我。”   
问：“的所有者是谁？然后有一段来回的对话，我们可以略过。如果可以的话，斯卡尔卡先生，你
可以从口译员之后的部分开始，我会重复翻译，从“当我需要”开始。是第三行。 
答：“当我需要基本生活费用时，我告诉我的儿子。我的儿子会告诉办公室支付——”   
问：“郭先生，金泉的所有者是谁？”   
答：“我的儿子。”   
问：“除了你儿子，金泉还有其他所有者吗？”

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 150 / 161页 
答：“没有。”   
问：“郭先生，你曾经拥有金泉的任何权益吗？”   
答：“没有。”   
问：“金泉的管理人员和董事是谁？我们可以继续往下滚动。我再读一次，这是克莱本女士问的。
郭先生，截至今天，金泉的管理人员是谁？”   
答：“（无法辨认）。”   
问：“我会重复这个名字以确保大家明白我听到的。我听到的是雁平，也叫伊维特·王；对吗？”   
答：“是的。”   
问：“王雁平是金泉唯一的管理人员吗？”   
答：“我不知道。”   
问：“截至今天，金泉的董事是谁？”   
答：“我不知道。”   
问：“郭先生，你曾经是金泉的董事吗？”   
答：“我不记得了。”   
问：“郭先生，马克斯·克拉斯纳是谁？”   
答：“我不知道。我不知道。”   
问：“郭先生，马克斯·克拉斯纳是谁？这上面写着郭先生请你回答。为了参考，斯卡尔卡先生，
巴尔迪加是谁？”   
答：他当时是郭先生的破产律师。   
问：我们是否可以继续往下滚动。那么你可以从第 22行继续，斯卡尔卡先生。

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 151 / 161页 
答：“他需要向你再次确认，因为我不太会读，也记不住英文名字，所以只能告诉你名字。你说
Max。如果只是Max这个名字，我知道Max。但如果你加上另一个名字，我就不确定了。我不知
道。”   
问：“你知道一个与金泉有关的马克斯吗？”   
答：“是的，我知道。”   
问：“马克斯在金泉的角色是什么？”   
答：“我不知道。”   
问：“那么你是怎么知道马克斯的？”   
答：“我不记得了。”   
问：“你知道不止一个叫马克斯的人吗？”   
答：“对我来说，英文名字很复杂。就像我记不住我律师的姓氏。如果你再加个名字给马克斯，我
就不知道了。”   
问：“郭先生，马克斯·克拉斯纳被列为金泉的邮件收件人。你知道为什么吗？”   
答：“我只记得金泉有一个叫马克斯的人。我只知道这一点。”   
问：“马克斯在金泉的工作是什么？”   
答：“我不确定他的角色，我知道他负责财务，但不确定。”   
问：“他在金泉财务方面做什么？”   
答：“我没有参与管理，所以我不知道。”   
问：“如果金泉给你钱，这钱是通过马克斯·克拉斯纳的努力来的吗？他帮助实现这个吗？”   
答：“我不知道，他没有亲自给我钱。”   
问：“郭先生，当你从金泉拿到钱时，你怎么拿到钱的？是以现金形式还是其他形式？”   
答：“从我儿子那里和（无法辨认）。”

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 152 / 161页 
问：口译员重复了这个问题，问题是，我的问题是，你从你儿子那里拿到钱是以现金形式还是其
他形式？   
答：“我不明白你说的‘怎么’是什么意思。我从来没有直接从他们那里拿过钱。”   
问：“如果你不直接从你儿子那里拿钱，你怎么从你儿子那里拿钱？钱去哪儿了？”   
答：“我不用现金也不用信用卡。我儿子和（无法辨认）。他们只是替我支付费用。我不可能从他
们那里拿到任何现金。而且，我没有银行账户，任何银行账户。”   
问：“郭先生，你是否有一张由金泉开立的信用卡可以使用？然后是巴尔迪加。再次问，郭先生，
你是否有一张由金泉或通过金泉提供给你的信用卡或借记卡可以使用？”   
答：“没有。”   
问：“郭先生，你是否有义务偿还金泉为你支付的生活费用？”   
答：“不，不需要。” 
费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请向证人展示标记为政府证物 1401-B 的文件。法官大
人，政府此时提供其他摘录，它们是 1404-A和 1404-B。   
卡拉马珠律师说：没有异议。   
法官说：接纳为证据。   
（政府证物 1404-A和 1404-B被接纳到证据集）   
由检方费根森律师继续询问：   
问：我继续。这些回答还是来自郭先生吗？   
答：是的。   
问：这是同一次债权人会议吗，就是我们刚才看的那次会议的另一个摘录吗？  
答：是的。   
问：我继续提问。你与金泉是什么关系？

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 153 / 161页 
答：“我不明白你问题的意思。我不知道怎么回答你的问题。”   
问：你知道“关系”这个词是什么意思吗？   
答：“关系在中国意味着爱。它可以是夫妻之间的关系，也可以是政府关系、金融关系、金钱关
系，还可以是很多东西。”   
费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，请展示。   
答：“所以我不知道你指的是哪种关系。是男女关系还是金钱关系还是什么？”   
问：任何关系。你的关系是什么？上面写着（无法辨认）。然后问题又来了，任何关
系，你与金泉是什么关系？   
答：“现在的关系是他借给我钱。我欠他钱。他帮助我。”   
问：为什么他会这样做？   
答：“因为我曾是郭家的一员。”   
问：金泉支付郭家其他成员的费用吗？   
答：“是的。”   
问：郭家其他成员有哪些？   
答：“我不知道。”   
问：“一年前我问过你，为什么金泉支付波德哈斯基先生的服务费用，用于他为你个人提供的服
务。现在我再问一次，为什么金泉会支付波德哈斯基先生为你个人提供的服务的费用？我们可以
往下滚动。然后说，请从第 12行开始，郭先生，他是怎么回答的？”   
答：“我不知道。”   
问：“你有没有问过任何人，为什么他们会为他支付费用来为你提供建议？”   
答：“我不记得了。”   
问：“去年我问你，为什么金泉纽约代表你支付了那笔判决，我指的是我委托的成先生对你持有的
判决。我现在再问一次，为什么金泉纽约代表你支付了那笔判决？”

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答：“那是借的钱。”   
问：为什么金泉会借给你那笔钱？   
答：“我没有任何东西，所以我向他们借钱。”   
问：金泉的钱从哪里来？   
答：“我不知道。”   
问：金泉的任何钱从哪里来？   
答：“我不知道。”   
问：“你的儿子拥有金泉，对吗？  “ 
答：“是的。”   
问：你的儿子欠你钱吗？   
答：“不。”   
问：你的儿子从哪里得到金泉的资金？   
答：“我不知道。”   
问：你曾经为你的儿子提供过启动资金吗？   
答：“没有。”   
问：你曾经投资过你儿子的任何生意吗？   
答：“没有。”   
问：康涅狄格州什么时候成为你的居住地？   
答：“2020年 2 月底或 3 月初。”   
问：如果我们能往下滚动，洛夫特斯女士，我们现在看一下 1404-A。这是另一个债权人会议的摘
录吗？

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答：是的。   
问：这次会议的日期是什么时候？   
答：2022年 4 月 6 日。   
问：这些回答是郭先生的吗？   
答：是的。   
问：我再读一次问题。“你在办公室准备今天的会议时，除了你的律师，还有和其他人见面吗？”  
答：“我不知道你说的其他人是什么意思。”   
问：你有没有和金泉的任何员工见面？   
答：“是的，我见了王雁平。”   
问：“这是昨天吗？ ”  
答：“是的，我昨天见了她。”   
问：“你昨天问过她一些问题吗？”   
答：“没有。”   
问：“你能告诉我你和王女士谈了些什么吗？”   
答：“你是什么意思？”   
问：我想知道你和她谈了什么？   
答：“我请她安排吃的东西和咖啡。”   
问：就这些吗？   
答：“我们还谈了如何推翻共产党。”   
问：我想确认一下。我想你说的是——然后巴尔迪加说。你能否再读一下第六行。   
答：“我们谈了如何推翻共产党。”

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问：“王女士是金泉的管理人员，对吗？”   
答：“是的。”   
问：“你让她拿咖啡，对吗？”   
答：“不，我没有指示她。我只是希望她带些咖啡。” 
问：“你是希望还是帮助？”   
答：“帮助。”   
问：“你在帮助。因为我的问题是你和王女士谈了些什么，我以为你说你请她带些咖啡或者可能告
诉她带些咖啡？”   
答：“不，你的律师事务所又在编造和想象事情了。”   
问：“你昨天和王女士讨论了什么？”   
答：“你要我详细说吗？我可以谈上几个小时。”   
问：“如果细节涉及如何推翻中国共产党，那我会更具体一些。”   
答：“所以你不想我们推翻中国共产党？我们的工作就是推翻中国共产党。”   
问：“巴尔迪加先生说请直接回答问题。”证人说？ 
答：“你没有问题。你只是指示一些事情。”   
问：“我们可以往下滚动。你和她讨论了什么以准备今天的会议？”   
答：“是的。”   
问：“你们讨论了什么？”   
答：“我请她把那些文件带来这里。”   
问：“还有其他的吗？ ”  
答：“我不记得了。”

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O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 157 / 161页 
问：“Lamp Capital是什么时候创建的？”   
答：“我不知道。”   
问：“为什么创建 Lamp Capital？”   
答：“我不知道。”   
问：“谁创建了 Lamp Capital？”   
答：“我的儿子。”   
问：“你怎么知道的？”   
答：“因为我向我儿子借钱支付律师费。”   
问：“问题是你怎么知道你儿子创建了 Lamp Capital？”   
答：“因为我儿子说的。”   
问：“他亲自告诉你的吗？”   
答：“是的。”   
问：“他有没有向你征求过是否创建 Lamp Capital的建议？”   
答：“没有。”   
问：“他有没有问过你是否应该创建 Lamp Capital的意见？”   
答：“没有。”   
问：“他有没有告诉你他为什么要创建 Lamp Capital？”   
答：“没有。”   
问：“谢谢。你知道 Lamp Capital从事什么业务吗？”   
答：“不知道。”   
费根森律师说：洛夫特斯女士，现在展示 1404-B。

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问：这是同一个债权人会议的摘录吗？   
答：是的。   
问：如果我们能往下滚动。这段摘录中的回答还是来自郭先生吗？   
答：是的。   
问：你提交的文件中有一些特定的备注，其中一个备注讨论了塔科尼克路的住所，还有提到
Harbach先生。你记得他是谁吗？   
答：他是至少一个债权人的律师，可能还有更多。   
问：如果我们能往下滚动。我从第 21行开始。第一个问题，与塔科尼克路房屋相关的所有费用
都是由家庭和家庭控制的企业直接支付的吗？   
答：“是的。”   
问：哪些家庭成员？   
答：“我的妻子，有时是我的儿子。”   
问：哪些家庭控制的企业？   
答：“哪个国家，我的妻子。”   
问：你的妻子不是一个企业。我想问的是哪些家庭控制的企业支付了塔科尼克路房屋的费用？   
答：“格林威治有限公司。”   
问：顺便问一下，你怎么知道是你的妻子或有时你的儿子支付这些费用？   
答：“因为我住在那里。”   
问：你有看到他们支付这些费用吗？   
答：“是的。”   
问：这是你要求的吗？

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 159 / 161页 
答：“我不记得我要求过什么。”   
问：格林威治土地有限公司——是的，格林威治土地有限公司，除了 373塔科尼克路外，还拥有
其他房地产吗？   
答：“我不知道。”   
法官说：我们就停在这里。陪审团成员们，你们很慷慨地同意明天一直呆到下午 5点。
那是星期二。星期三和星期四这两天，我们会到下午 2:45，星期五你们休息。下周一，即七月一
日，你们休息。星期二和星期三，你们来。然后星期四和星期五，即七月四日和五日，你们休
息。所以今天晚上请考虑一下这个问题，你们不需要现在告诉我。你们能否在七月二日和三日这
两天整天待在这里。你们可以考虑一下，明天早上告诉我。同时，不要在你们之间或与其他任何
人讨论这个案子。不要让任何人在你们面前讨论这个案子。不要阅读、观看或收听任何与本案相
关的内容。祝你们晚上愉快。 
法庭书记员说：陪审团退场。   
（陪审团不在场）   
法官说：先生，你可以离开法庭了。不要讨论你的证词。   
（证人暂时被允许离开）   
法官说：请坐下。我们明天上午重新开庭前有什么需要讨论的吗？   
卡拉马珠律师说：辩方没有，法官大人。   
费根森律师说：没有，法官大人。只是向法庭提供一个背景，我大概还需要 15 分钟。这
是最后一个摘录。我们快结束了，之后会有一些简短的提问。   
法官说：很好。祝你们晚上愉快。   
（休庭至 2024年 6 月 25日上午 9点） 
 
--4063

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 160 / 161页 
审讯索引 
 
审问： 页码 
艾米·巴克·范德兹 
费根森律师直接询问……3873 页 
施洛夫律师交叉询问……3935 页 
费根森律师重新询问……4000 页 
施洛夫律师再交叉询问……4003 页 
道格拉斯·斯卡尔卡 
费根森律师直接询问……4006 页 
 
政府证物 
证物编号 接受 
BUCK 34, BUCK 44, BUCK 48, BUCK 49……3883 页 
BUCK 50, BUCK 60, BUCK 63, BUCK 69, BUCK 77, BUCK 80 
BUCK 115, BUCK 117, BUCK 127, BUCK 131……3883 页 
BUCK 133, BUCK 138, BUCK 141, BUCK 168, BUCK 174, BUCK 194 
BUCK 218, BUCK 221, BUCK 227, BUCK 232……3884 页 
BUCK 235, BUCK 236, BUCK 241, BUCK 243 
BUCK 375, BUCK 391, BUCK 428, BUCK 522……3884 页 
BUCK 524, BUCK 532 
BUCK 709, BUCK 822, BUCK 851, BUCK 1204, BUCK 1260, BUCK 1261, 和 BUCK 
1274-BUCK 1291, 和 BUCK 1293-BUCK 1296 
C-146, C146-T……4006 页 
1419, 1420, 1421 和 1422……4039 页 
1401-B, 1404-A, 1404-B……4053 页 
BUCK 1292……3885 页 
1303……4037 页 
1314……4031 页 
1315……4036 页 
1316……4033 页 
1401-A……4047 页 
1407……4028 页

【中文翻译 仅供参考】       
O6OBGUO4  2024-6-24庭审记录    第 161 / 161页 
1413……4023 页 
1416……4019 页 
 
辩方证物 
证物编号 接受 
60613……3971 页 
60614……3972 页 
60618……3973 页 
60620……3974 页 
60621……3975 页 
60623……3975 页 
60624……3978 页 
60625……3977 页 
60626……3979 页

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